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spite-and-waffles · 2 years

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I feel like neither the pro-Talia Al Ghul camp or the anti-Talia camp really care to delve deeply into the fact that she has been abused and used by her father her whole life, and is as tragic a character as Jason. Her fixating on a man as emotionally distant and obsessed with his mission as Ra's, knowing full well that he will never choose her or his children over it, is a completely accurate showcasing of the way people perpetuate their own trauma cycles.

And while I hope more people refuse to take anything Grant Morrison wrote about Talia to account, making her a good mother in reaction to it also just does not make sense. Just like Bruce, she's an example of someone who loves her child fiercely but is too traumatized and emotionally stunted to express it in healthy ways. Unlike Bruce she grew up in a literal terrorist cult and raised Damian in it as well. Her being exacting and teaching Damian to be ruthless and trust no one were all incredibly damaging and abusive, but it's also the only fucking way he could have survived the League or Ra's. Yes, she could have sent Damian to his father and keeping him by her side was selfish, but this woman, who had been starved of love and had never been anyone's priority since her mother died, finally had a person to be hers and only hers. It's horribly, tragically human to guard that love jealously and possessively.

The Tiger Mom as a trope is racist, but the emotional effects on women made to prove their worth as humans via motherhood is very much a reality that women of colour can relate to, and one not confined to just Asians. I'm only going to speak for my own people here, but the way Asian mothers make their sons their whole reason for being stems directly from the oppressively patriarchal cultures we grow up in, where a woman's worth is predicated on being a wife and mother and the highest honour she can aspire to is having a son. Ra's is the original patriarch who drilled into his daughters that they could never inherit his legacy no matter how much they proved their love, and that they owed him male heirs. Damian's very existence is tied up with Talia's idea of her own personhood and worth and achievement, which is why she piles on so many contradicting expectations on him - that he's fiercely independent but also stays by her side, become his father's perfect heir but take only her values, never be a pawn like she was, but align with her own wishes.

However you want to negotiate the racism of the way Talia is written is up to you obviously, but I feel that there's no realistic way that Talia can be a good mother (even in Son of the Demon she acted in Bruce's best interests, deceived him and abandoned her child, which actually might have been kinder than attempting to raise him in the LoA). I feel that making her one is an extremely simplistic way of dealing with the racialized misogyny her character is subjected to, and a disservice to real-life children of mothers like her, who love their children fiercely but perpetuate abuse cycles because of that very love.

For me, deconstructing and reaching past the misogyny and racism means humanising her and not making her value and sympathy as a character contingent on how good of a mother she is to Damian and Jason. Trauma and abuse slows or arrests your emotional development and makes it difficult to regulate your emotions and impulses, which is why it's a requirement for traumatized people to cognitively work on themselves in order to be good parents to their own children. Talia cannot. There's absolutely no therapist she can trust, the last time she felt close to someone she was decieved, tortured and brainwashed by her, and not only can't she get away from her father but she received a harsh object lesson from her sister on what happens when you try. This woman is a goddamn victim in every possible way, even more than Jason. It's also one of the reasons I don't buy that she allowed herself to be close to Jason, maternal feelings notwithstanding.

(Also her sleeping with him was pretty gross and unnecessary of Winick, whose writing is far from unproblematic when it comes to WoC, but it makes for a fascinating character deconstruction because afaik it happened right after Nyssa tortured her until she was brainwashed against Ra's and Bruce. So at that point in time she was basically in tatters and locked in the same self-destructive spiral as Jason, and maybe she wanted to nuke her sense of maternal care towards him in a bid to feel less emotionally vulnerable. I love this kind of psychological yarn balls in fiction.)

Absolutely none of this should absolve her choices. None of this means she's a good anything or that she should be seen as a purely sympathetic and wronged character. She's obscenely rich and powerful, ruthless, cunning and manipulative. She's one of the most dangerous people in the world. She's not fit to raise anyone. But if you can't accept all of that and square it with a fiercely loving heart and find a deeply human character then I really can't relate to you.

Let female characters of colour be human, morally grey and complex. Let fictional mothers be traumatized and deeply damaging without demonizing them. And stop moralizing female characters, I am begging you. We're far past Victorian England. Making them be on their best behaviour all the time to be sympathetic is oppressive as hell and not what storytelling is for.

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vizthedatum · 6 months

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One thing that might not be obvious to some (certainly not to me) is that when you heal from a place of lack, codependency, and low self-confidence… you will mess up a lot. Especially if you’re accustomed to being a high-masking person going through trauma cycles.

You may lash out because the pent up resentment and anger bubbles or explodes out of you.

You may feel a whole range of emotions within a couple of seconds.

You’ll wonder how you heal when you don’t know what to even do - you’ll keep getting more information that clarifies things but what steps do you even take?

Do you stay angry forever? What happens when you get your validation that… it was awful and it wasn’t right?

What happens when you confront your role in the trauma cycles that have happened to you?

What happens when you ruminate on what they’ve done… and what you’ve done? All the times you’ve self-abandoned yourself…

Or worse… what happens when you “move on” by suppressing yourself yet again because it gives you that false sense of safety (and unfortunately, stagnancy)?

—

Then, you’ll ask yourself:

How do I truly forgive them, forgive myself, and enforce my boundaries? How do I know myself so deeply that I know what those boundaries should be?

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scarscardsandink · 5 months

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i can’t do this with you again

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bananonbinary · 5 months

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also worth noting that "abusive" doesn't actually mean "irredeemable" either.

there's a lot of people that have done things in the past that were bad, because they weren't taught any better, or they were in an overall toxic situation where EVERYONE was shitty (like a cult), or they were just at an especially low point and hurt others for it.

you don't have to forgive them. you don't have to ever speak to them again. you can be angry with them until you die if you want.

but society cannot function if we don't allow them to move on. to change their behavior and fuck off somewhere else and build meaningful relationships without bothering you again. we need a path for people to change, or nothing ever will.

#like re: the last post #npd SHOULDNT mean 'youre an abusive person'#but also people who have abused people in the past can still become better people in the present #you know?#and as i metioned vaguely in that post. the way we currently treat people with NPD probably CAUSES THEM to lash out at and abuse others #if u abuse someone they lash back out at you and suddenly theres fun mutual abuse happening #so they need a way out of that cycle

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biggest-gaudiest-patronuses · 7 months

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going through my old journals as part of therapy homework and i'm reading a section written in the emotional wreckage of a full-on breakdown when i get hit with this line:

There is never a satisfying answer to ‘Why didn’t they love me?’

like wow babe. good fucking point

#like you were on the ground biting the carpet and dry sobbing while you wrote that and still. good fucking point #not a shitpost #cptsd #and it's true. there's never a satisfying answer #the truth is i know why i wasn't loved #i analyzed my parent's traumas and abuse to death. i understand why i alienated and was alienated from my siblings #i know why my mom was too overwhelmed to be capable of nurturing #i know why my dad vanished into addiction and avoidance #the details of our cycles of trauma and cptsd and family history i have a phd in all of it #i understood perfectly. i spent years studying and now i knew the answer #and guess what? IT WAS NOT SATISFYING!!!#because they still didn't love me! and i still couldn't change that!#it was still a completely unsatisfying state of affairs!#so like. when the people who are supposed to love you...don't.#when the people who are supposed to take care of you...fail to #you can look for answers and reasons and explanations #but that's not actually going to FIX your situation.#and it's probably not within your ability TO fix the situation. (and definitely not your job)#because you don't need answers--you need a new situation #*inserts Just Walk Out. You Can Leave!!! (Running Skeleton) Meme*#and yes. walking out isn't always possible.#but for you i hope it will be one day soon. and i hope you build the courage to take that leap.#stepping away from the people who failed to love you...it feels like being untethered but also like being lighter than air #new and scary. immensely relieving. the future opens up. empty but empty like a canvas. blindingly bright until your eyes adjust #like climbing out of a pit you called home and for the first time realizing how bright the light of day can truly be #when you aren't just getting glimpses from the bottom of a hole

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craycraybluejay · 7 months

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I also heavily resent the ever-present implication in mainstream media that at all touches on trauma that we cannot have any sympathy for Bad Victims. That it's evil to write a sympathetic Bad Victim. Hell, that it's bad to portray one at all at times. Writing a victim of trauma who's an addict or self-destructive is already an edge case-- writing trauma survivors who end up actually hurting someone else, being chronically "treatment"-resistant or having inconvenient ptsd, perpetuate the cycle, or are just kind of a total dick is considered an evil move. Instead of like. An actually complex and interesting artistic choice.

Idk. It pisses me off a lot how often Bad Victims[TM] are brushed under the rug and if you dare to speak of them/make art of them, let alone SYMPATHIZE with them you're an irredeemable monster. And that's just fictional characters. Don't even get me started on the way people treat actual people who have ptsd in a way that's at all inconvenient and problematic in their opinion.

#bad victims #trauma #purity culture #cultural christianity #cycle of abuse #the invisible victims #trauma survivor #ptsd #purity wank #freedom of expression #dark topics #media criticism #trauma in media #please can i get one traumatized blorbo that isnt purity poisoned #like you're not writing a moral guidebook for small children. you're allowed to write anything at all forever

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shallowrambles · 1 year

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Dean can't get there--to hope. It's hopeless.

When Dean had his Big Existential Crisis and his marriage broke down and he lost his child, he retreated to his room to marathon ScoobyDoo AND Eat *cereal* (cereal is JackJackJack)

#spn scripts #grief cycles #abuse cycles #death

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eznii · 1 month

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something something white sheep luo binghe

#svsss #scum villain's self saving system #scumbag villain #luo binghe #or uhhh ig #luo bingge #scum villain #mxtx #fanart #digital art #my art #svsss fanart #chirin no suzu #ringing bell #this has prolly been done before but look at him...chirin lookin ass #something something cycles of abuse idk #anyway svsss enjoyers do not follow me cause i literally never talk/draw about it lol

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mortysmith · 7 months

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try not to think too hard about the fact that your grandpa (the worst person you know) was literally exactly like you when he was 14 (pr/ship dni)

#rick and morty #rick sanchez #morty smith #im imagining a scenario in which morty meets young rick and hes like Ohhhhh i get it so its all over.#like idk. he already probably has some complex over not ending up like rick #but then seeing how similar they used to be hed probably start feeling like its inevitable #like obviously it isnt. but idk. could fuel some interesting character drama guys im just spitballin here!!!!#something about the cycle of abuse and seeing yourself in your abuser

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sunlit-mess · 1 month

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I don't hold grudges, that anger feeds into self-loathing instead.

#messyr #vent art #vent post #just confusing things I wanted to get out #as much as i want to 'hate' them- i cant #no matter how bad they get- i always forgive them and it hurts. But why does it feel wrong to feel hurt- that i'm not supposed to feel hurt #my mind has been altered so much idfk what to think and feel abt sometimes LMAO #one of those birds in a gilded cage AHAHA #learned helplessness #bpd #sometimes i wonder if i get out of this cycle of abuse

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vizthedatum · 10 days

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When you have learned that love is about giving in to dysfunctional and hurtful behaviors, it stays with you as you grow and develop. We often become anxious adults who desperately want love and are attracted to situations that harm us, almost subconsciously.

I’m only beginning to understand my attraction to people who exhibit warning signs of behaviors that harm me, and I am understanding that’s not love or safety.

It’s not what I truly desire.

#healing #neurodivergence #trauma #love #self love #queer #prose #codependency #childhood abuse #abuse #abuse cycles

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strawlessandbraless · 2 months

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Live

Laugh

Lobotomy

#let him love #end the cycle of abuse #live laugh lobotomy #supernatural #spn #dean winchester #destiel #castiel #deancas #misha collins #jensen ackles #spn crack #live laugh love

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punkeropercyjackson · 26 days

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"We need to normalize kindness!"You guys can't even handle that making fun of eachother isn't a sign of love for everyone because some people can't handle it so it hurts their feelings and instead call them losers for it and prove their point that you're genuinely cruel

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anotherdarkiboi · 7 months

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Is anyone going to talk about how Cazador was also both victim and abuser? How as Vellioth's spawn, he tried to reach out to a former friend (likely for help) and then Vellioth made Cazador watch as he drained his friend dry as punishment (and how Cazador locked Astarion up in a tomb for a year after being unwilling to kill a "darling boy" and trying to run)? How Cazador tried to rebel against his master and failed, being impaled for 11 years after (and how in Cazador's journals, he records all the actions of his spawn “with particular attention paid to Astarion”, and it's only in recent entries when Astarion disobeys him and goes missing that he “betrays any emotion” and is furious, writing about how he tortured Astarion's "siblings" for not finding him and wanting to torture Astarion himself)? How Cazador kills Vellioth during the Rite of Perfect Slaughter (just as Astarion kills Cazador during his Ascension ritual)?

How Astarion says that Cazador took particular pleasure in torturing him because his “screams sounded the sweetest”, but it's more likely that Cazador saw himself in Astarion from when he was Vellioth's spawn? How Cazador says "You are mine. Forever." in Astarion's nightmare, and how Ascended Astarion says "That's what you want, isn't it? To be mine, forever?" to Tav?

The parallels. The cycle. Augh.

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ladylightning · 11 months

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the way the absence of john winchester haunt sam and dean in ways that are more real than any ghost they have ever faced. the way john echoes so loudly in the narrative even in episodes he’s not mentioned, in seasons where he never appears. the way john possesses dean when he’s angry and sam when he’s grieving. the way john is the one true god of the narrative, the absent father who does not answer prayers or phone calls. the righteous man who does not break in hell but breaks down and hands his child a gun. john and the memory of his holy mary. john the prophet and his sacred text. john and his prodigal son that he knows has to die.

#john winchester #john as a character and narrative tool is so fascinating to me #the way the show utilizes both his presence and absence #the intergenerational trauma and cycle of abuse stuff is what elevates the show #even when the writers are fumbling the motw stuff or the season arcs #the impact of john is still so apparent and raw and visible #a lot of that is on the actors vs the writers tho #john winchester hate club #supernatural #sam winchester #dean winchester #SPN

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yardsards · 4 months

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there's such an interesting extra layer to amity and her relationships (especially w luz) that gets revealed when you learn that not only is she an abuse victim herself, but she is also the child of an abusive marriage

like not only was she personally abused/neglected and taught that she doesn't deserve to have her boundaries respected and won't get positive attention unless maybe she "earns it" by being useful and overachieving, but also her main example of a romantic partnership involved one partner exploiting the other and treating him as an expendable tool

in all of her relationships (platonic, romantic, familial), amity learns to give and receive kindness, learns to respect and set boundaries, learns that the value of herself and others aren't dictated by achievements or usefulness. she's breaking the toxic patterns that her parents taught her via their treatment of her.

but with her romantic relationship with luz, not only is she learning all of the above, but she's also breaking the toxic patterns of a romantic relationship that she would have learned from watching her parents.

when she shows kindness to luz, loves luz wholeheartedly even when she makes mistakes or causes problems, respects luz's privacy and boundaries, she is treating her girlfriend in a way that opposes the way her mother treated her own husband.

when she learns that she doesn't need to be useful or else risk abandonment/punishment, she's learning that she shouldn't accept or expect to be treated by her girlfriend the same way that her father was treated by his own wife.

i just. i love stories about characters breaking cycles. and i love luz and amity's relationship so much. it's very much not the kind of relationship i'm invested in the same way i am invested in with ships between adults. but rather like, it's a relationship between these two young people who are learning to healthily navigate this kind of relationship for the first time in their lives and it's really sweet.

#eliot posts #toh #the owl house #amity blight #abuse mention #toh meta #ive probably talked abt this a bit before but. god. i love it so much.#i LOVE stories about characters breaking cycles they drive me buckwild #lumity #if there's any good character study fics abt amity being the child of abuse and breaking that cycle... send em my way

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