#Asgard on screen examples

[blindtaleteller]

thank you for previous explain. It was so long and detailed. I had now another question. About lady's life in Asgard. Sigyn x Loki for me. And Sigyn is not warrior, but typical lady. Can you write something about it?

Honestly if you're looking for an example of that in canon MCU, much of Frigga's character and especially her surroundings as expressed on screen does have quite a few examples.

In fact, we aren't even given the idea she can still fight until she absolutely has to in The Dark World.

And, it's in Dark World (and a little of both Ragnarok [geh] and Endgame if you take both the premise of the Valkyries and the time travel scenes in it seriously) that we are given those examples.

Remember, whether they are fighters themselves or not: if they're Asgardian, they're still raised as a part of that previously mentioned warmongering imperialist society: and that would be (as also told to us in their dialogue about Jane and Sif, and their King Odin's expectations) even more strictly observed by someone like a lady in that kind of royalist/imperialist hierarchy, rather than a warrior.

That is why I say 'much' of Frigga's character and surroundings.. but not all. It's not the fighting you need to look at, though that can help. It's her mannerisms, her rooms (look at TDW including the fight with Malekith), her maids, and more. Frigga is, as Queen and even without the fight or ability itself: the top and more importantly leading example of what to expect of a lady of the royal court: as she should be in that kin of society.

And that's also VERY probably why she doesn't fight in any of THor 2011 on screen: even when Laufey shows up, regardless of her being nearer to the main palace then, than she was in TDW: where she was shown being in a separate side palace at least a few miles away when Algrim/Kurse broke out of the dungeon: all the way up until her life, and Jane's, are in immediate danger after having left that portion of the palace during the attack that Kurse opened the shields to manage.

(Which side note was REEEEALLY questionable at the time with a human housing an infinity stone in tow at the time, but is neither here nor there with other things taken into account... just a very dangerous for Jane choice, given what enemies they did have even without the elves being taken into account.. but eh, it is canon and it does fit the flavors of Asgard's, Odin's, and Frigga's own arrogance and ignorance in regards to Asgard's 'impervious' mindset state, as far as the upper echelons of their society seems to be concerned as portrayed on screen.)

In a way, it's made pretty clear that while Frigga still retains much of her skills as a fighter and mage/witch (Or the daughter of three witches at least as we also now know through canon dialogue:) the things she does and doesn't do, while also comparing that to someone like Brunhilde (aka Valkyrie) and how they were clearly recieved during and well after their term as an active female-only fighting force, the canon makes it pretty clear that unless they do retain that fighter status, women (perhaps including the queen) either do not tend to hold as much sway or dignity in other pursuits outside the household.

In other words and as an canon example.. even as the other ruler on the throne and his adoptive mother; Frigga is easily able to set aside the throne and any responsibility for doing so even in that situation. Regardless of, the fact that; at that point the situation is that Jotunheim had declared war in response to Thor's treasonous invasion, and regardless of being closest to Loki (we know this through the words of every character in the family: Thor says it repeatedly, Odin goads and attempts to guilt trip him with that close relationship too, and Frigga does the same with her own wierdness during her conversation with him in TDW's dungeon cell scene) knowing full well not only what she was asking of Loki, but also what Loki was going through in having just recently discovered that he wasn't only not of the same species: but on top of that was Laufey's biological son AND Jotunheim's only known of prince. Whom, Odin admitted he had taken to 'forge a permanent peace.'

A peace that, probably wouldn't have happened anyway if he and it had been handled just as poorly as well, it was.

Think about that for a little bit; really think about it: and the fact that she did so, while playing the part and claiming she was closest to him and cared about him the most.

That canonically casts some seriously gross and awkward truths into the realm of how their their relationship actually is versus how Frigga and the rest of them tried to paint it. As well as touching her own guilt evasion there too: and is something that both in the first Thor and the second film both: Frigga absolutely side steps taking any responsibility for, as the mother, the mentor, and the lady who raised him with that lie: regardless of their supposed closeness.

And, why that's important? Is because, under that king, husband and society as it goes: she is not just allowed to do that without complaint from any of the above, their society OR the foster-brother that she raised and lied to right next to him: she's allowed to thrive and remain in her position STILL without that question or any apparent explanation of ANY of those nuances or her part in putting him in charge in taht mental and emotional state; well after the fact and into 2013 two years later.

When she refers to that massive erasure of not just who but WHAT he is? Frigga almost always shifts that blame fully onto Odin in her dialogue; and steers as hard as she can away from words reminding the viewer that, she was Odin's wife and partner: through all of that. Instead, it's always 'your father' or 'he' rather than 'we' or 'he and I.'

Which is very blatantly another portion of Loki's response in this same scene when asked 'And am I not your mother..?' because, he's right in every form of the answer.

It's -possible- that she was being honest about her relationship with Loki, at least later on? But it's -not- very -probable-, or believable at that stage.. and her lack of self awareness and ownership of her part even when alone with him in Thor 2011 (not to mention carrying that on a year later in Dark World) makes that very hard to miss as a thing in truth: especially with the given facts being that this went on for over a thousand years.. and still over all that time she didn't have enough regard, respect, or love for her supposed favorite son, to even hint at any of his origins even after she taught him to shapeshift or cast illusions herself, to change the outcome.

And again.. no one raised a question as to why. Or held her accountable. No one questioned the one person in the royal family who was capable of taking Loki's place on the throne back in 2011 either.

Given how little we see women in honored fighting positions in Asgardian culture, and are given the very blatant information between the films that it's been literal centuries since even since a female fighting force has been a thing, PLUS the literal views we've been given with Sif as the only woman in the training yard in modern eras...?

It's pretty likely that raised-in bit of social ugly is pretty well dug into their society as well.

Again and that said: figuring out how a lady rather than a fighter might run her life, or fit in at those upper tiers without picking up a weapon: has been put on some display.

Asgard has a very wonky, heavy half ren/medieval approach to their upper heirarchy on display, complete with ladies in waiting (which Tony takes a little off jab at in GROUNDED too lol,) and healers especially seeming to be a majorly female profession.

There wasn't a single dude in that scene with Jane that wasn't either royalty or a guard, if you look at it again. Every single one of the healers is a woman.)

That mentioned, another place to look for examples, are again: Frigga's personal surroundings. And Dark World gives us a good look at those.

One thing to note, is that besides the healers: pretty much every Asgardian lady has armor in some portion of their wardrobe. Whether that's a breastplate, vanbraces (wrist/forearm,) gorgets (neck guard, like Loki's) or something else to accompany their dresses.

Vanbraces (Thor 2011)

Vanbraces and Archer's breastplate (Dark World Dungeon Scene)

Vanbraces, Pauldron, and partial Chestplate (Dark World, final scene)

There are moments when we see her and them without armor pieces (or in some scenes with even fewer of them at least, like teh carefully disguised set in the top gif) but for the most part those outfits are reserved for really important parties that are the equivalent of formal-dress parties: in which case we can see that even Sif doesn't escape from the expectation of wearing a literal dress: though even then.. hers is the odd one out of the others shown/on display in the room as far as style:

Which tells us a couple of things, but first and foremost and something that makes sense in their culture: is that even if they're not mainline fighters, and having been invaded enough to need and upkeep those shields in the first place?

Other than fancy events/celebrations and or coronations? The armor pieces are definitely as much local every day cultural fashion thing, as they are functional in some cases.

It's pretty likely that even the ladies of the court at least know and are expected to upkeep at least minor skills in self defense, if not the defense of their own homes: and are probably taught to do so from a very young age. They're not going to be as good at it outside of their own personal territory, or a territory they know well like say the Valkyrie were supposed to be, as the equivalent of a special forces military task unit: but they probably are expected.

Another side note..? This above, is ultimately; also among the forgiving reasons I don't question why Frigga went to the main palace outside of her taking Jane with her when she went. As Queen and lady of the house under that form of society, it absolutely passes without Jane in tow. However.. without Jane in tow, there's also the bit she couldn't have known at the time; that the writers did of course .. the fact that any of the elves were even alive and kicking. [And gee; thanks for that again Bor, lol! like father like son, I guess? Bor, his son, and said son's wife DO seem to have a habit of -not- telling their kids about world and universe ending enemies being alive after the fact, don't they? coughcoughHELAcoughcough.. XD]

There is one other bit, besides that: that we do get about the society from all that too though. At least about the surviving upper echelons of the ruling class: and that is?

That Odin had a really tight reign on the upper royals and his fighting forces surviving the Great Wars as King.. lips and all: unless amongst the entirety of their armies, council, other generals (besides Hela, which HOO is that a whole conversation unto itself Loki and Laufey related when you look at that timeline with Hela in it omg..) and pretty much every lady in waiting, servants .. or just other lords and ladies? Just didn't notice a surprise baby that the Queen -didn't- give birth to, was randomly being presented as a new baby prince to the Asgardian Empire. Which.. is next to impossible; especially when you take into account that this wasn't another country he took this kid from, or a society unfamiliar with magic: he took Loki from an entirely differing species and PLANET elsewhere in the universe in the middle of the last battle of one of the largest and bloodiest wars in their generation: and forced passing him off as his own.

Even if, he did manage that; maybe sequestering his wife and passing Loki off as a twin or some shizz? Someone if not a whole lot of someones probably knew.. but especially the healer or healers who would have treated any wounds throughout Loki's lifetime.

We could, almost say that they could have presented him as an adopted Asgardian kid.. and maybe he and Frigga did, to some of them on the sly to help keep it under wraps.. but that doesn't fit how their relationship is depicted, shown or talked about prior to or even after the reveal of his species and bloodline at all, either.

And that still wouldn't pass the first time this kid hurt himself, or was injured in battle under the scrutiny of an uninformed healer's ability in that society, with magic and high tech and more very much at their fingertips and in their alliances and enemies too, to be recognized.

Meaning, at least a portion of the populace closest to the crown, and especially those types old enough to have taken part in the last of the Great Wars or tending Loki as he grew and fought and more as a captive prince: were either just as complacent or, shut up by either if not both portions of the crown house really damned fast and really efficiently likely through threat, exile or worse. Keep in mind, the Great Wars and especially that one was still freshly finished, and they made a great show of making sure we knew there would be problems having the future ruler of the enemy they had been killing for an un-foretold length of time next to the crown in how even mention of Jotnar was allowed to form in Asgardian society: through Loki's words, through Thor's reactions and words, through Odin and through Frigga too.

The hate was strong enough even a thousand years plus of Odin's rule with Loki as prince later, that Thor thought it was A-Okay to go ahead and invade the planet and restart that war, against the literal warnings not just from every single person around him before he did it: and not just warned but told outright by his father and the King 'don't you fuckin' dare' well before even that.

That.. is the kind of society and expectations, an Asgardian Lady would have been raised into and led by along with the rest.

All that said, this is getting long; and there are metas rather than canon they come from that I could mention regarding Vanaheim as the most prevalent colony of Asgardians/partial Asgardians too, but.. we don't get a whole lot of them or their off world society other than to know that Odin doesn't care about them NEARLY as much: or at least not enough to even provide them defensive cannons or other defenses that Asgard otherwise VERY clearly has and has had for literal ages as put on display in the Dark World.

Being a woman in that society would probably be a very, well...

Probably, brainwashed to accept a lowered expectation of self worth over all, without the ability to fight on a greater tier than just home and self defense. And those who don't fall into those already asserted social standards would definitely be outliers if not outcasts. We have Loki himself and how Frigga's skills are viewed and worded even by her own family, as example of that.

So.. that's a lot to keep in mind but.. yeah. It is there, and more that; I probably haven't touched or missed while in the process of going on and explaining that.

For Sigyn though, for me: I do have some planned for her but as she doesn't exist in the MCU and adapting her would for me have to take all of that in mind: that is being approached very back burner for late Vestibule 2 (after Mixology) and Vestibule 3 as what ultimately boils down to an OC version of her. In part because I like that character in real life lore, and Skadi's character: and when I do write for them both.. I want to try and convert them to fit into the MCU base in a way that feels right to me.

Which is going to be rough when getting into more detailed versions of stuff like the very brief mentions of Skadi's tale and others I've already done in fics like Simon Says/Bail: given the MCU is twice removed from actual Norse Mythos; being Asgard in the MCU is more loose in being based off of Marvel, which in turn is then just as loose in the comics' basing their characters from that Norse Mythos.

Also, am tired .. is eleven PM lol sorry for not continuing, and getting extra rambly. But will add more pretty pictures to make up for it a lil bit? lol

If you have more questions or want some elaboration on anything, by all means feel free to send me asks just like this one.

I generally try to answer pretty quickly when I see them lol.

#Ladies of Asgard #examples given #it's pretty open #but there are established rules shown and in some rare places told #at least as far as the MCU version is concerned #I am very interested in doing at least two Unis with if not more with Sigyn though #that's always been a plan #Asgard lore #Asgard on screen examples #MCU Asgard #MCU #Lokiverse references #also armor references #blacksmithing study sometimes comes in handy. #editted a bit cause I hate typos #especially overly dumb plabet typos lol

[wolfgiselle]

Character Reaction Fanfictions (watching the show/movie or reading the books) -Recs -

One of my favorite tropes in fanfiction is characters being forced to watch/read/react to their own stories. Unfortunately, a good majority of these are crap. Readers looking for these stories often have to dig through a lot of coal to find just one diamond in the rough. Here's a list of the ones I’ve managed to find. Ones that aren’t just a written recreation of their source material.

Is This The Way It Ends Now? by Seastar98 (Death Note) (Finished) This is one of my favorite Death Note fanfictions for a reason. It doesn’t make us watch or read the dialogue or action of the show along with the characters; It assumes we’ve already seen it and focuses on the character’s reactions (what we’re actually here for) and gives more character development to some of its minor characters than the actual show managed to do (Mello, Near, and Matt being clear examples. I was happy about this in particular since my favorite characters in Death Note are Matt and Matsuda). L and Light end up together, but romance is not the focus.

Hunter x Hunter / Assassination Classroom by EternalQuestForGoodFics (Finished) Basically, Killua ends up in the Assassination Classroom world. To go home, he must eventually allow his classmates to watch the HunterxHunter series to learn more about him and where he came from. These two fandoms are a great matchup, and Killua is one of the best characters to end up in the AssClass world. Seeing Killua bond and make a new friend out of Nagisa made it worth reading alone. Their reactions are part 2 of the series. 

MHA X Hunter by makifinity (My Hero Academia / Hunter x Hunter) (In progress) This is a good fanfiction where the My Hero Academia characters watch the HunterXHunter anime together instead of their own show. What makes ‘this’ great is how different the two worlds are and the morals that hold them together. I love that the villains are also involved in this viewing room since, in most My Hero reaction fics, the villains are left out of the experience and don’t get to have their own voices and opinions about what is happening on screen.

The Journey of the Unholy Trinity by Arremi (Code Geass) (In progress) If you’ve been in the Code Geass fandom long enough, you’ve probably seen a few of these stories. This one is the longest, most well-written, and most complete I’ve found.

Code Geass: The Blame Game: by AllHailThe99th (Code Geass) (In progress) One thing I like about this Code Geass reaction fic is the author’s obvious and stated hate of the character Suzaku. Suzaku is on my list of most hated characters; I like reading people judging and calling him out constantly on his shit. It’s a very therapeutic read. I recommend it to anyone who felt a similar rage when watching the show.

Appearances by McKinney_Wylis (Marvel / Avengers) (Finished) This story has the Avengers going to Asgard to check on Loki when they find a weird video clip online that scares them into believing Loki may have broken free. It turns out the video clip was from a different universe (our universe), and they suddenly had access to the Marvel movies that were available at that time. They watch the Thor movie and learn things about Loki, unknown before. The watching of Thor actually doesn’t take up the whole fic, but this story still counts. It takes place during the Thor: The Dark World storyline.

In terms of pairings…well, I’ll read any pairing if it’s written well enough. Even a story with Loki and Steve shacking up. I don’t like Steve, but I like how he was written in this fic. The way he and Loki interact is cute enough that I can look past it.

Part of the Journey is the end by hunkahulkaaburningfudge (Marvel / Avengers) This series starts with the characters watching Infinity War and has been going through the continuing movies and TV shows; with great writing and lots of material, this is definitely one of the best. I loved the Wanda and Loki reactions. And the ‘What if?” storylines were hilarious.

Avengers Watch Snippets by Ifihadatardis (Marvel / Avengers) As advertised, the characters watch little snippets of scenes of each other’s lives. Sometimes, these fics are preferable because the characters can learn about each other without going through their entire movies.

All the Days of Our Lives Series by ElrondScribe (Marvel / Avengers) This series has the characters react to Captain America, Iron Man 1, and Iron Man 2. It takes place after Civil War and has them watching the movies in Wakanda. I like the Tony Stark and Pepper focus in these fics, and I thought the writer did well with the other character voices, even for the ones I didn’t like.

School Watches Assassination Classroom by TheSteinsGateFormula (Assassination Classroom) (Finished) This is not just one of the best reaction fanfictions of all time but one of the best, period. The author not only had the original class and teachers watching the show but the entire school (baring the Principal, thank god) yet still managed to keep everyone in character and give everyone a distinctive voice when trying to keep up with so many people.

Attention is given to situations that were mostly glossed over without consequence in the actual show, like the students who came from abusive households. My favorite characters, Nagisa and the younger Asano, get a good amount of attention.

The only negative of this fic is how long it is. Over 700,000 words. It takes some serious reading time, but it’s worth it. Trust me. But once you start, you might not want to stop. Make sure you have the time to dedicate to it.

Lucifer Reacts to Supernatural by SilverWolf7 (Lucifer/Supernatural) As much as I love Supernatural and wish I had more good recs for it, this is one of the best options I can offer in this category. I haven’t seen the show Lucifer yet (I’ve been meaning to), but it didn’t take away from my enjoyment of this fic. Seeing Lucifer’s love of Sam’s character and hearing him rage about many of the things in the show that frustrated me or he thought were inaccurate were giant highlights of this story. Warning: If you’re a Dean fan, you might get defensive about how much Lucifer bashes him (I live for it, but that’s me). One of the other characters that he’s watching it with even rage-quits on him for how much he was dissing her favorite character. If that doesn’t bother you, this might be the fic for you.

Watching You, Watching Me, Watching You by trippedandfellintopurgatory (Supernatural) This is one of the only good Supernatural watching-the-show fics I’ve found. So, of course, it only has 19 chapters, sits at 30,000 words, and has a slow updating schedule.

Blank Disc by TheFallenArchangel (Supernatural) Another of the few good Supernatural watch-the-show fics. This one hasn’t been updated since 2014 and has only seven chapters. Dean and Sam are teenagers, and their father and Bobby watch with them.

The Void by iAnneart (Yugioh: Duel Monster/ Yugioh Abridged) This fanfiction was one that I used to love, and I hate that it still hasn’t been updated and doesn’t look like it ever will be. The characters of Yugioh react to their own abridged series to hilarious effect. This fic was the entire reason I watched the Abridged Series by LittleKuribo - still one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen, and admittedly much better than the actual show. Another fanfiction is more popular and has them watch more episodes. But this fic was much better written with only ten chapters.

Under a Watchful Eye by my secret thoughts (Harry Potter) A story where the Harry Potter characters read the books. It focuses on Harry and Sirius. There is no actual recitation of the books (thank god), but it’s written well enough to tell what they’re reacting to. So far, this is the only reaction fic like this in the Harry Potter fandom I’ve liked. It takes place during their 5th-year, and the other characters are mostly Order of the Phoenix members.

Truth Revealed by Lucifer swift (Full Metal Alchemist) One of the first reaction fanfictions I ever read. It's been reuploaded on fanfiction.net. In this reaction series, the characters are forced to relive the pain they witness themselves having on screen. Any of you who have seen Full Metal Alchemist know that is leading to an agonizing time.

No such thing as a painless lesson by RoseJennison (My Hero Academia) The best My Hero Academia fanfiction that’s actually still going and might eventually catch up with the episodes…maybe. The characters in this are also forced to suffer the pain they see themselves experiencing onscreen. Think about all the times Midoriya breaks himself and imagine him having to feel all that again continuously.

In the Grasp of Schadenfreude by ThoughtSpinner (My Hero Academia) The parents and teachers/heroes watch the show and find out what's been going on with their children and at school. Needless to say, these parents have a lot of thoughts. 

Reaction Ritual by PreshByPyre (Naruto) This is only six chapters, but I hope the author returns to it. It’s a good idea, and well-written Naruto reaction fics are rare.

A number of fragments by eliscool (Naruto) Exactly what the title suggests. Instead of watching Naruto episode by episode, the characters are watching random fragments of the show and have to try and put together what’s happening. This occurs when Naruto and the kids are still in the Academy - but before Itachi commits the massacre.

Old stories, new discoveries by Daniablazin (Discontinued) (Miraculous Ladybug) This is my favorite Miraculous Ladybug reaction fiction. Unfortunately, it doesn’t go past the first season. It’s been discontinued because the author said they didn’t like where the show was going. A real shame. The writing on this was amazing, and it had serious potential.

What are our children up to? by o0Lithium0o (Teen Wolf) The parents of Teen Wolf from earlier in the timeline get to see what their children are up to and their future. The kids aren't actually in the room with them. Probably for the best. They are so grounded for the foreseeable future once they all get back.

As Above is Below by kswriter (Shadowhunter Series)The characters of the Shadowhunter series (pretty much all of them) sit down to read the books. This goes by the book canon, not the show canon. I mainly love this series for the Mangus and Alec content. This is the only reaction fic I've seen with these characters. 

Reaction: Six of Crows by error_404_gender_not_found (Six of Crows) Characters from Six of Crows and Shadow and Bone reading the Six of Crows books. This ignores the TV show canon.

Honorable Mentions: 1.Watching Hunter x Hunter by catnip_riceball 2.HxH watches Hunter x Hunter by bb_bubblepopb33 3.I Have Regrets, but this Just Might be the Worst of Them Series by by IzuochaRay (My Hero Academia) 4.Cheat code central by orphan_account (My Hero Academia)(Villains react to the show) 5. Mansion Of Time: Watching Season 1 by Perez_K (My Hero Academia) 6. Watching as Hope is Lost by GeorgeFredSlytherin (Code Geass) 7. The Trials and Tribulations of Spider-Man, the People's Hero by ironfidus (Marvel/Spiderman) 8. Glee meets Glee By: babeitscoldoutside (Glee) 9. when the teacup shatters by SolusMormont (Hannibal)

#fanfiction #fanfiction rec list #fanfiction recs #fanfiction recommendation #reaction fanfiction #mha #my hero academia #hunter x hunter #assassination classroom #marvel #spiderman #code geass #harry potter #glee #full metal alchemist #lucifer #supernatural #death note #miraculous ladybug #avengers #six of crows #shadowhunters #teen wolf #naruto #yugioh #yugioh abridged #hannibal

[taraljc]

so being me, I've been working on a Sylvie story for over a year. And I need to figure out a couple of bits, namely where she got her machete, who taught her to fight, and how much of her magic has changed in the 8 months since she met Loki. For example, she transformed her clothing outside the McDonald's, which was something she could not do in the void. while her file notes that she had used telekinesis before we didn't actually see it on screen very much until the very end of series 1 and in the s2 finale. But we still haven't seen anything along the lines of illusion casting or duplication casting. I've been fixated on glamours more than transmutation of matter based on Loki sharing the childhood memory of how Frigga would change flowers into frogs (and we did see Frigga do duplication casting by projecting Jane to fool Kurse). But my assumption has been that Sylvie had very little training when she was taken by the TBA and whatever skills she had with illusions and glamours atrophied as she began exploring enchantments.

anyway I have decided because I am a weirdo that somehow Loki missed the part where Sylvie's bracelet is actually He Who Remains' souped up tempad, which is how she was able to monitor the timeline for Kang variants. But also it allowed her to survive the temporal drop spindle overloading in episode 4, and for her to find Mobius after he read his own file and went to Don's house. I mean it's not as if he could just text her and say hey meet up outside this address in Cleveland, ya know?

but also I kind of love the idea that at one point she ended up on Sakaar because it is where lost things go and met Scrapper 142, and that's who trained her to fight and Sylvie is like the only Asgardian alive who knows her name is actually Rūna and possibly they dated on and off for a couple hundred years. And it's very confusing for all three of them when Sylvie and post-finale timeslipping God of Stories Loki go to Tønsberg to check out New Asgard because Valkyrie recognizes Loki but Loki doesn't recognize Valkyrie, because he never met her and he also is not aware of the giant statue or the part where he impersonated Odin for like 5 years. And at some point the New Asguardian Community Theatre group is going to start asking a zillion questions and travelling through time and space may actually be their only means of escape...

That machete has to have a story, tho. And I need to figure out what it is.

#all the headcanons ever #loki #sylvie #valkyrie (thor)

[dwollsadventures]

Magnus Chase Project Idea

The next thing for my list of projects is something a little closer to home and achievable, but also perhaps less anticipated. 

Percy Jackson was the first series of novels that I ever read of my own volition. It instilled a love of reading and appreciation of mythology that continues to this very day. When I heard that Riordan was going to be writing a series based on Norse mythology in 2014, I was ecstatic. Unlike before, I had a basis of knowledge to draw from to prepare for the books. When the books were released and I read them though, I felt a little disappointed. I actually have a large document that I wrote back in 2017 detailing all of my criticisms, but I’ll summarize them here: 

Magnus Chase as the protagonist goes through a very well defined and meaningful character arc in the first book. It’s probably one of the only things that make him stand out from Percy Jackson, who he can sometimes read as a carbon copy of. In the subsequent two books, however, he loses everything that made him special. His identity as a peacemaker and healer, and his choice to not use Jack the sword as a weapon are all forgotten about. 

Rick Riordan’s passion for Greek and Roman history oozes out of everything he wrote for his previous books. And while he did make an attempt, the mythology presented in Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard is one of its greatest flaws. The gods of the stories are shallow, one-joke cut-outs compared to the complex parents and power players in PJO. Heimdall is the worst example. Rather than echoing themes and remixing myths, oftentimes the characters play out recreations of Norse myths word for word during the course of the story. Norse mythology has a lot of large gaps in its content, meaning that an author will almost certainly have to bridge them with their own creations at some point. Riordan chooses to do this by mixing in modern culture and folklore from the 1800’s of Scandinavia. 

This book was not the first to feature cross-overs from other Riordan books, but it is the one that leaned the most heavily on them. Annabeth’s inclusion in the first book was appropriate, but it seemed like pandering to include Percy in the last one. When reading reviews to refresh myself for writing this, a good percentage of them cried out about their insufficient screen time. 

Slavery. The mythology point above makes me the most peeved, but this one baffled me as I read the books. One of the first einherjar characters introduced is Hunding, from the Volsung Saga. In the Saga, another of the characters, Helgi, kills Hunding, and his reward for the victory is that Hunding becomes his slave in Valhalla, commanded to “of every hero / Wash the feet, | and kindle the fire, / Tie up dogs, | and tend the horses, / And feed the swine | ere to sleep thou goest”. This is present in the books, but couched in PG13 language, so that Hunding is Helgi’s “servant”. One of the main cast of characters is Thomas Jefferson (TJ) Jr., a runaway slave that died fighting in the Civil war. In the third book, one of the other main characters replays a scene from mythology where she gets a bunch of jotunn slaves to accidentally kill each other. This character then apologizes to TJ for killing the slaves and they make up off-screen. Hunding is never rescued from eternal slavery, the existence of slavery in Valhalla is never acknowledged, the end. 

So what? Why did I list all of my gripes with the series and put it under the future projects title? Well, after I wrote my laundry list in 2017, I capped it off with a “what I would do” section. I’ve never been able to get into the realm of fan fiction. But what about fan rewrites? Rewriting the book chapter by chapter with my own changes? 

The reason I haven’t done this is because, again, I don’t have a foot in the fan fiction world, and for most of my time I’ve thought that spending so much time and effort working on something like that would be a waste of my time when I could be working on my own stuff. But recently I’ve been rethinking that. Finding the motivation to work on my own Acronym Pending series is conflicting with my anxiety about perfecting it so that I don’t tear it down a month afterwards. What if working on fan fiction doesn’t trigger this response? After all, the hard work’s already been done. If I end up doing this, it will be because I can’t bring myself to work on the TDG, which is bad, but it would mean something is still getting done, even if it’s something I cannot claim as 100% my own. 

What would I do differently? Here’s a few examples:

Magnus is not a demigod. Demigods are not a big thing in Norse sagas or myths, and it links the series too much to the previous ones. 

Samirah would not be a valkyrie, but another of the einherjar. 

Valhalla and the Norse elements would not be modernized, at all. 

Hearthstone’s father would be Volundr. 

Overall, the story would be closer to a runaway tale rather than a hero’s journey. The overarching mythological theme would be focused on breaking the cycle. 

#magnus chase #magnus chase and the gods of asgard #mcga #magnus chase spoilers #rick riordan #writing #writing idea #fan fiction idea

[brooklynislandgirl]

Bill shifts in his pilot's seat and turns his head to regard Beth, sitting at the nearby data console and sifting her way through all manner of notes he's collected on Earth cultures. Ostensibly her original intent had been to fill in gaps in knowledge for him... but now the young SHIELD agent seems more interested in installing gentle corrections on conduct that might lead to faux pas. Serving particular foods, for instance. Evidently 'communion wafers' are improper and inadequate sustenance for large gatherings of culturally disparate sentients.

"I wish to ask you something," he remarks. "You speak very little of your family... your blood relatives. But you offer glowing reference to others you have met in life. I find kinship in this, as I heartily claim Thor as my brother, though we share no common ancestry. Loki and I are considered adoptive sons of Asgard, a title that can be as assuring as it sometimes is burdensome. Your heart has bidden you to speak with great fondness for your friends and allies -- as examples, your Agent Coulson... Doctor Strange... the amazing Spider-Man. Do you find a similar sense of adoption among them? Having adopted them as your own, or been adopted by... or even a life oath?"

Three of a Kind || Accepting

She had to laugh about the wafers, all hushed tones and smile obscured by her hands, and a mental note that she has one more thing to confess the next time she can make it by Sacred Heart. Then she goes through the whole explanation recalled from memory of her catechism classes, about transubstantiation, grace through the Eucharist, and Catholicism in general. Extremely hard when several points of reference also have to be explained and when the person receiving the information might not understand the belief, the implication and well… the cannibalism of it all. This will probably need a lot more explanation in the future, if it doesn't bother him right out of that armour of his. She wouldn't blame him for being squicked, it's almost ridiculous trying to type it out. Thankfully though, Bill ushers her away from the screen just after all those thoughts flit into her mind and saves her from any real close-contact with blaspheme. His plangent tone wraps around her as warm and silky as the depth of midnight, and makes her swim to the surface. He isn't wrong. She really doesn't talk about her family; the mother who abandoned her and seemed to forget her in favour of someone else's children, the Admiral who seemed to despise every breath she took for no reason she could ever fathom, the brother who had died on foreign soil fighting in a war that wasn't his in the first place. Her grandfather who after all this time only visits rarely and only then to ensure her safety from the rest of his kin. What is there to say about it, these stories that he's perhaps already heard before from any number of people that he's met? Or maybe she's being so insular to keep her own unhappiness at bay. Beth struggles with feeling valid, worthy to be in a world that seemingly doesn't want her. There is something a little brittle in her expression when he mentions the Asgardians. She's never in their brief interactions fallen afoul of the Thunderer, if anything he'd best be said to have been kind or deceptively cruel, in trying to smooth over her initial interactions with his sibling. But Beth is ever so careful to remain neutral on the matter of Loki. On one hand, xe killed Coulson. On the other, xer destiny goes beyond any gift of sight or sense of fate that she can claim, and who is she to say these were not all things set into motion by the universe itself? It could also be that she is afraid someone will use her softness for Loki for something truly evil. He can probably see the moment each name steals her breath but lights up her brain, the connections and emotions she associates with them. And the complex narrative she needs to weave now, which she wishes she had Loki's way with stories. "I suppose I should start with Ku'uku'u…ah…Spider-man, as you call him. He is wonderful. Such a good and deeply compassionate heart that will not allow him to do anything but the greatest good that he can. He is noble and he is a hero, never doubt that truth. I think in some world, maybe more, he and I could have made as you say…a life-oath. But anyone who does has to know they will always be second or third behind his need to save the one life he couldn't. That his drive and his connection to Spider takes up so much of his soul that he fears love. Fears sharing his life and believe me he has reason. I don't fault him for that."

It's all she can say without mentioning anything that might compromise the identity behind the mask, something she won't do for anyone, no matter how much she cares for them. She is loyal to Peter, and she loves Peter maybe more than he ever knew. But Beth is also a little selfish and she can only come in last so many times before even her heart breaks. She knows that maybe she isn't a good fit for him, not that way.

"So I suppose…maybe our relationship is like hanai-brother and sister. Like you and Thor. Fun fact, he's actually a couple years younger than me, too. So there's that." She offers a modest lift of one corner of her mouth. The seed of a smile perhaps that fades when she begins to speak again. A bright brush-stroke of sorrow paints her gaze with a crystalline clarity, and she cannot bring herself to look him straight on. Her chin dips. "I…I don't know if…or what…Korbinites consider their Hōkūpa'a, which in my native language means steadfast star, and is what we call Polaris, the constant north star which has been used for navigation and sea-faring since I don't even know how long. But it's very important. So I suppose you could say my personal Hōkūpa'a is the Doctor. He was the reason I chose my medical school, he guided and guarded me every step of the way through the learning process, and if I hadn't…made some choices, I'd still be with him now. There is little of me that you can't see his hand on. Even when we disagreed or arrived at a solution from different sides, there's not a man I don't respect more, and whose wisdom and friendship mean more to me. I am sure if he thinks of me at all, he still sees me as his favourite student." The trails they could have blazed, the practice they could have shared, the life that they could have built together still haunts Beth when the nights are darkest and loneliest. There isn't an ache or a joy of his that she doesn't feel in a distant sort of way. "I can't presume to say what he falls under, assuming there is even a word for it. Hanai brother? Oath-mate? Hanai-Father?" A lilt of her delicate shoulder, something of a sigh and she waves a hand over the console beside her as if her hand is a tide washing away what was written in sand. "As for Agent Coulson. Well, you've met him. Like Ku'uku'u, he's steadfast, honourable, compassionate. Like Stephen, he's talented, sophisticated, dashing. Wears a suit well. He's smart, yes, but his strength is in his experience, his wisdom, his willingness to be exactly what the job calls itself; a shield to protect whomever might need him most. There's great rage in his heart but that's reserved not for an enemy but situations where he is needed, if that makes sense. It's his own sort of passion under the affable exterior. One part of me wishes that the Admiral could have been an eighth the man Phil is. That he could have ever made me feel as safe, as valued." And there, there's that selfishness rising, for which she looks immediately guilty for once the words leave her mouth. "Agent Coulson is everything a person could want in a father. In a boss. In a friend. In a husband. I would consider myself lucky were I ever to have someone like that interested in me. I know by now you must have heard me call him uncle, and maybe in a way I do see him in that sort of light. I call him Uncle because it's a term of respect on my island." That same shrug of her shoulder, that same small exhalation. "I suppose I could make an argument for each of them living in my heart as one has family. I could also make the argument that if I ever made a life-oath, I would consider myself a fortunate woman if any of them wanted that." She looks up at long last. "What about you? Have you met any other hanai-family amongst your travels? What about someone you who makes your heart sing?"

#Mahalo!Matt <333 #Sea of Waking Stars|Bill and Beth #Webs and Fins|Spidey and Beth #Sphere Music|Stephen and Beth #Every Girl Needs A Hero|Phil Coulson

[motioneffects]

HOW DOES COMPOSTING PLAY AN ESSENTIAL ROLE IN VFX?

Visual effects, commonly known as VFX, have evolved beyond being a mere trend. It has become an integral part of post-production across various forms of video content. From simple YouTube videos to films, documentaries, or commercials, all video forms use VFX in some capacity. And compositing lies at the core of this transformative process, making it the center of contemporary filmmaking and content creation.

Among the many techniques in VFX, compositing can be considered the last and final element of the process. Simply put, compositing is the process where a VFX artist brings together the different parts of a VFX shot (roto, green screen, CG elements, etc)   and composites it together to create a seamless single shot. It takes different elements like a CGI image, animation, special effects, live footage, clean plate, etc., and blends them to form a single scene that looks realistic and complete. Hence, compositing is a pivotal part of VFX services. Let us discuss the significance and role of compositing services in visual effects.

WHY IS COMPOSITING IMPORTANT IN VFX?

In visual effects, compositing emerges as the focal point, orchestrating the complex task of crafting a seamless narrative. Take a popular example of an educational video. When recording the footage, you will mostly use a green screen behind the instructor teaching in the video. Later in the post-production, the green screen is keyed out and replaced with a different background. Animated charts, images, and other visual aids are added behind the speaker (replacing the green screen) to support the teaching content. Compositing is the final step in this process. In compositing, all these different elements are grouped in a single shot. They are integrated seamlessly to make it look like a single realistic video.

Without compositing, all the different elements of the VFX would look incoherent and chaotic, lacking a touch of realism. Thus, compositing is the culmination of all the efforts put into the VFX process.

ROLE OF COMPOSITING IN VFX

Compositing services play a pivotal role in the VFX and post-production process. Let us look at its role in VFX services in brief:

BLENDING VARIOUS ELEMENTS SEAMLESSLY

Nowadays, CGI is used in almost all types of videos. From creating mystical worlds to crafting dynamic charts for interactive educational videos, CGI and VFX help make the impossible more possible every day. And compositing is a significant part of this process. It is only through compositing that compositors merge CGI with live-action footage and blend imagination with reality. One of the popular examples could be the mystic world of Asgard in the movie ‘Avengers’ which blurs the boundaries of realism very subtly and perfectly. However, achieving such a realistic integration of elements in video compositing is not an easy task. Talented video compositors like our team at Motion Effects have the professional experience and expertise to give you the most realistic integration of elements that blur the line between imagination and reality creatively.

BALANCING VARIOUS ELEMENTS

A harmonious merging of various elements is essentially the core of compositing. A video compositor uses compositing software to blend live-action footage, CGI, animation, graphics, etc., into a single frame. If any of these elements look out of place, it can affect not just the frame but the entire video. So, compositing is the process of balancing all the elements to make them look like a single, cohesive scene. Skilled compositors have the creativity and professional expertise to achieve this balance.

MAINTAINING VISUAL CONSISTENCY

Another important role of compositing is to maintain visual consistency throughout the video so that it all looks like a single shot. In visual effects, each video frame must look as realistic and natural as possible. The compositor has to make sure that all elements of the clean plate look real, whether it is animated graphics, CG images, effects like smoke, fire, etc., or other footage. Color correction helps a lot in achieving this realism in the video. It fixes any issues with the hues and tones of the video so that it matches the real world. As a result, your video has a realistic yet professional look.

ADDING SPECIAL EFFECTS AND ENHANCEMENTS

Compositing is also used to add special effects like fire, smoke, dust, etc. to the video. VFX artists create these effects and animations for the videos separately. They are later integrated with the live-action footage in the compositing stage. In this process, the compositor needs to ensure the added effects enhance the content and make it cohesive. VFX compositors use special effects to boost the visual appeal and storytelling of the video.

SOFTWARE AND TOOLS

Compositing is an intricate and complex task. It requires various state-of-the-art tools and techniques to craft stunning visuals that captivate the audience. Reputed VFX studios like Motion Effects use the best VFX software like Nuke, Blender, and After Effects and use various other add-on plugins to get the job done. Such VFX software also requires expert VFX artists with mastery over these tools to use them to their potential.

CONCLUSION

Compositing services are undoubtedly a pivotal part of VFX, playing a major role in elevating the visual appeal of a video. At Motion Edits, our team of talented compositors work in synergy with other VFX artists to create stunningly realistic videos. If you’re looking for the right compositors for your videos, your search ends here. As a reputed visual effects company, Motion Effects offers a wide range of services including compositing. Contact us to learn more about our services and how we can transform your videos into visual masterpieces.

SourceLink[https://motioneffects.com/how-does-composting-play-an-essential-role-in-vfx/]

#vfx artists #vfx company #green screen remover #rotoscoping service #vfx services

[cyrasblogproject2022]

#5: Loki (MCU)

This blog post is going to take a more fictional, or I guess you could say mythological, turn. I want to look at the intersectionality of Loki Laufeyson of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, one of the only characters confirmed to be queer in the MCU. As confirmed by actor Tom Hiddleston, who portrays Loki on-screen, Loki is genderfluid and bisexual. Although, the character currently uses he/him pronouns, seeing as his identity was only confirmed after the release of his most recent appearance in the MCU. On top of his already intersectional identity, Loki can be considered a racial minority.

Loki was born a Frost Giant and is native to Jotunheim. As a baby, he was adopted by Odin and was raised as an Asgardian. His Asgardian upbringing is probably responsible for his comfort in his sexuality and identity. This isn't something as confirmed in the MCU, however, in the Marvel comics and in Norse mythology, Asgardian gods and the people of Asgard are very fluid and comfortable with their sexuality. Unlike the people of Earth or Midgard, as the Asgardians would refer to it as, Asgard does not have a social standard for gender expression and sexuality. Other Asgardian characters, such as Valkyrie, are also queer, and this is something that is normalized and celebrated in their culture. In Thor: Love and Thunder one could even argue that Thor himself, perhaps the buffest, masculine hero in the MCU, was somewhat queer-coded in a scene involving Star-Lord. Overall, it is safe to say Loki's identity as a bisexual, gender-fluid person has not caused him any self-esteem issues in Asgard because there is no stigma against it.

There is no doubt that Loki did evil things. I mean, he did literally attempt to rule Earth after unleashing an army of aliens onto New York. However, even before that, he was considered different from his adored brother Thor, and when he was revealed to be a Frost Giant, the way people viewed him drastically changed. Being a racial minority has caused Loki a lot of anguish and could arguably attribute to his villainized reputation. Pure-bred Asgardian Thor Odinson has been admired since he was a child, he was chosen to be King of Asgard over his brother. Loki is unwanted and misunderstood, he is rejected from Jotunheim and just does not compare to Thor. Even though he was confirmed to be queer eventually, Loki is a perfect example of how LGBTQIA+ audiences can relate to a character that embodies the "queer experience".

Loki does however mention a struggle to find the right person in a conversation with a variant of himself, Sylvie, in his Disney+ series titled Loki. The two reminisce on their past relationships, and it is in this scene that Loki is confirmed to be bisexual. He describes his experience with romance, but how it is never anything real. Considering he has pursued partners of different genders, one could theorize that it obviously was not his gender expression or sexuality that put off potential suitors, but maybe his race. This is not confirmed and is just a theory, but seeing as both Asgardians and humans alike judge Loki based on him being a Frost Giant, it would not be too far off to say that his romantic partners did the same. As Loki puts it simply, "Love is... something I have to have another drink to think about".

Although his intersectionality is not the direct source of Loki's problems during his time in the MCU, it does make for great representation and gives audiences a different perspective for why he is the way he is. Loki's identity offers room for fans to not only theorize but also relate and find solace in his character to be sort of a "comfort character". He is a very complexly written character with many more experiences and development to discuss outside of the topic of gender, race, and sexuality. I look forward to season 2 of Loki and seeing if the writers explore Loki's identity further. Loki is an iconic staple in both the Marvel Cinematic Universe and Marvel Comics, and his identity makes him a great example of queer representation in superhero movies.

[bigbazoxngas]

There are so many things I LOVE about Loki's costume design in his first three movies.

In Thor (2011) his armour looks shiny and looks new, it's smooth and sleek.

Compared to Avengers (2012) it's visibly scuffed, worn and dented.

A good example of this is a comparison of Loki's helmet, in Avengers it's noticably grittier.

Loki after falling into the void, something described as "Marvels version of the seventh circle of hell" and (at the very least is being threatened and is hurt once on screen) encountering Thanos his armour is now visibly frayed and dented. It's such a small detail but I absolutely love it.

It's visually showing us Loki's state of mind, he still looks regal and big, intimidating, powerful, yet there's damage, he's in Tom Hiddlestons own words "scarred for life."

Especially how the gold, in particular, something that represents Asgard, is what is most textured, especially in Thor TDW, where Loki endures more anger and grief, and breaks out of the abusive and toxic dynamics of Asgard and his family.

The gold is at it's most damaged, yet it's still powerful, it gives Loki this feral quality, it has a different effect, because this time Loki is working with his grief. He's not just feeling angry, he's using his anger.

It's just *chefs kiss* something so nice, I just really like it. Visual storytelling through clothes is something I fucking love about movies and shows.

#loki laufeyson #mcu loki #loki #the loki series #loki meta #meta analysis #costume design #i'll make more loki costume meta because his costumes in the 2011-2013 era are so packed with symbolism #i love how much thought was put into his costumes #character design #i fucking love character design yall have no idea #i haven't even touched on half of it #mcu #thor 2011 #thor the dark world #the avengers #avengers 1 #avengers (2012) #loki meta analysis #the void #visiual storytelling #costumes #symbolism #can you tell i think about this alot #sorry if this is rambly #long post #kind of not really #maybe im overanalyzing #i dont care its still fun

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

I agree that the treatment of Loki in his own series is awful but I would not say that the mcu who killed their two only female members of two superhero teams for the sake of the plot praises women just becase of the shallow girlboss character

Anyone who claims the MCU praises women is being ridiculous 😂😂

There are some female characters that are great but most of the time they're not written all that well and don't have much to do.

The best example of well-written women is Black Panther. We have Ramonda, Nakia, Okoye and Shuri, not to mention all the Doras. They're shown to be strong, capable, kind, loyal to each other and fierce in their love for Wakanda. T'Challa relies on them and we get to see their friendship - how many female friendships do we have in the MCU? Yeah, it's that bad.

But the women in other movies they don't have all that agency. We have some exceptions like Natasha in WS but she's so inconsistently written throughout the films (I still loved her in her movie though). Then I'd say Wanda has a good chunk of screen-time but I don't think she was given much to work with until the D+ show. I'll mention Carol as well (and I love Captain Marvel and how they have women of all ages in it, there are no scenes where she shows skin, not a single word about how attractive she is and there's no romance at all).

But Valkyrie? We don't even know her name. Gamora and Nebula? I love them but we don't have enough of them (and don't get me started on how they mistreated Gamora in IW). Hope is wonderful and I have a soft spot for the Ant-Man movies but again she doesn't have much to work with. Jane is sidelined and Hela is basically blamed for Asgard's imperialism.

Sylvie is a bit like that all-female scene in EG: they don't want to take the time to write a proper role for a woman so they go overboard and come up with something excessive and disproportionate to satiate the need for women in superhero movies but it falls flat because it's entirely bland.

#mcu salt

[blindtaleteller]

Question about medical care in Asgard… I'm talking about a case of Odinsleep/coma. How different do you think caring for a person in a coma would be on Asgard than on Midgard?

Gonna assume you're asking about the MCU as I answer this! 💚

With a Coma/Odinsleep .. Probably not too terribly different in act for the most part IF it's being treated like a regular coma; but incredibly different in aesthetic, and well.. it does get a little more iffy when you're talking about 'Odinsleep' in particular, even with what little we do know from what's shown and said about it on screen which I say by means of examples given, both canon and deleted from it.

Some things definitely do change if you take deleted scenes from Thor 2011 into account in particular though: as one of the things they removed entirely from existence in the cutting room in that movie, was something called 'healing stones.' They actually had two portions of scenes that they shot (one in the hospital after Jane ran him over, and one just prior to the final portion of the fight with the 'Destroyer' in New Mexico.) I'll slap them in here if I can find them out of my giant clips playlist of doom.

Sticking with just the canon though; and specifically with the regular coma treatment first? The first thing you have to take into account is that there are lots of different kinds of comas, and that even Earth-tech wise, some of them are going to be treated a little differently (short, long term, caused by external injury, caused by internal injury, trauma induced are a thing too.)

That said, the first thing we have on display as far as Asgard's medical goes, is something that unsurprisingly is a repeated major portion of their basic lore in the MCU: that they aren't gods; they're an elder race who have been themselves reaching into the cosmos for eons of generations even stretching back to at least near enough to the beginning of their universe well established enough then, to take note of the fact that the Infinity Stones made at the birth of that universe, were not made by either them, or by the other elder races like the Dark Elves, or the even older Tivan brothers: with single generations lasting as long as five thousand years.

Related to that is also the fact that they by the time in their universal timeline we do catch up with them: they are very clearly a warmongering/imperial colonialist society. Even before and likely during them, Odin made a generation of wars horrible enough to be called 'The Great Wars' among the lot that he and apparently Hela (who was clearly full grown --meaning she was anywhere between 20ish and 1000 years herself-- even in her mural depictions,) to spread his version of 'peace' through the removal of what other species he percieved as threats and competition (see Muspelheim, Jotunheim) going so far as to make certain they couldn't rebuild even their capitals.

Why is that important in this conversation? Because that also means including Bor and Asgard's previous generation five thousand years prior to 2013's invasion of the elves; they had been dealing with injury, illness and more among their own resulting from those battles: and yes during those thousands of years of conflict between Bor's crusade, and Odin's: they had lots and lots of extra time to improve both their tech, and any magic along those lines.

Which yes are actually two very different things, though from the looks of it are often interconnected in Asgardian society in particular, unlike on Earth; where medical technology is foremost, and sorcery/magic has been forced basically into hiding by centuries of the many different flavors (both in religion base and name) of Inquisitions on Earth over the course of over a millennia by the time the twenty tens roll around. We also know that they do posses some limited means through technology, of suppressing some magic; but whether or not Asgard in particular has evolved their understanding of sorcery in particular to do so on a magical level is questionable at best given what we've seen between the first two films alone.

Given the blatantly similar societal distaste for most non-combative magic, and even a good portion of combative magic for that matter that's pretty likely not the case: even Thor refers to his mother's skills and knowledge as "tricks." However, that doesn't seem to apply where the "Healer's Hall" inhabitants and actual healers are involved.

Most obvious example of technological vs magic, and those limitations I mentioned above that we have is a pair of scenes in TDW: the Soul Forge in the Healer's Hall vs. Loki's full-room illusions.

Soul Forge (aka Quantum Field Generator:)

This is also, one of the scenes that continues to show rather than tell, the MCU established facts of their advancement.. and their arrogance around it when dealing with what Asgardians otherwise clearly still consider 'lesser' races under their protection. Quite a contrast to Loki's interactions with Selvig and Barton delivering those two a great deal more dignity and trust in A1 too, while they're building the portal device ...but that's a whole other set of attached social observations and comparisons I'm not gonna get into here. The point of this one is: if there's magic there; they're making it very clear there isn't much of it, and doubling down on that whole 'not gods, only mistaken for them' far more interesting take, on which MCU Asgard was built since the very first movie. (again though, it also displays their arrogance in that direction, as Eir not only treats Jane's inquiry very dismissively; but gets flustered and gap-mouthed [literally] when she positively identifies the diagnostic technology being used. It also is one of the many displays of how differing etymology between cultures in the MCU [yes there are a few, including the Dr. Strange film as another major example of that in particular] is a purposely crafted thing.)

ANYWAY!

Compare that technological, with the feats of sorcery Loki manages in that same film. Not only does he not use tech to manage his magic/sorcery (or 'tricks' as Thor calls it lol).. but he does so behind the locked door of, that same level of technology, in his own prison cell.. and beyond it. While some of the deleted scenes show this too? The final cut certainly wasn't lacking either.

So, all that said..? And without dipping into the whole discarded-from-canon 'Healing Stone' facet: it's very likely with a normal (or normal-ish lol) coma, that it wouldn't really be that different: just easier to some extent and probably a lot faster to correct any issues with those caused by injury in particular.

However! And most important:

Odinsleep, is something else entirely.

From the first film, we know through dialogue that not only is 'Odinsleep' not a normal coma by any means: it's one that can, has, and with the way they talk about it: SHOULD be induced every so often in order to maintain his health.

Where do we get that and why do I say 'his' in particular?

Because..

1. It is called Odinsleep, which says outright that in the MCU either Odin is a common enough name among Asgardian elder generations to be named as such OR, that it's a practice that belongs solely to Odin in particular.

2. The conversation between Loki and Frigga tell us as much, in their conversation over Odin's bed. (PS I couldn't find the full clip immediately, so I am posting the full uncut scene [with deleted parts] instead. The part that I've marked it to (timestamp 1:06 in the video below if that doesn't work for you) is what you need to listen to most, and was part of the final cut in Thor 2011.

Though the way they cut and rearranged this scene has some of that conversation out of sequence, the information given about Odinsleep remains the same in the much shorter canon conversation.

Their conversation tells the viewer outright, that not only is that a thing he does regularly, but that it can be planned out and planned for: as they make a point of stating that it's only this time, the Odinsleep was unprepared for.. and, they have seen it enough for Loki's first words to be stating the fact he 'never gets used to seeing him like this' .. meaning? He has seen it enough times that he thinks he probably should be: but also that it's upsetting enough an experience to him, that he isn't.

You'll note that they also briefly discuss the fact that Odin had been putting the Odinsleep off. It was coming anyway and regardless .. and should have happened far sooner.

While it's not technically counted as canon on screen, there's a little more information given directly about Odinsleep in the parts cut out too, if you choose to observe and use them: as well as a more direct showing of what we already know even without that scene of how Frigga chooses to pass the throne to the only heir not currently being guilty of and banished for several counts of treason including restarting the war and disobeying the king in that bed, with Thor's invasion of Jotunheim landing him firmly on Earth with the very obviously earned traitor title.

I'll leave it up to you if you want to watch and or use any of that, and you definitely could; since it's -again- just dialogue telling the viewer what's already known simply by watching the other scenes around it in the canon cut, including and especially the throne room scene where Sif & the Warriors Three request Thor's return, regardless of not only knowing he was banished for treason.. but also having been the others to try to remind and convince him alongside Loki; to NOT commit that treason, prior to him doing it and dragging them along anyway.

All in all, through those scenes; we are given a very clear set of rules and information about Odinsleep either way. Which includes the fact that it can be a form of coma that probably should not be randomly interrupted or the subject brought out of it, where it's apparently necessary for the individual's overall health: but can also be a state in which they might spend the last of their lives.

In that, this also tells us that; there isn't a whole lot that even Asgard's greater technology, or even magic can or should do, to bring someone out of it at all.

And, from the way they do deal with their King going through it even by surprise: we know that there isn't much they can do at all beyond keeping him comfortable and as healthy as possible until the Odinsleep finishes it's course naturally... whether that results in the subject waking up, or possibly, dying.

There's no mention of anyone else going through Odinsleep.. but there's also no mention of whether or not anyone else HASN'T, either.

Either way, that scene alone does show and tell a lot more about Asgard's medical capabilities and some of their limitations too, even as a society that's been at war since before Moses (lol but true, especially counting Odin's dad before him fought the elves for what Odin himself identified as 'Eternities of bloodshed' that didn't end until almost 5k years prior,) even, when cut down to the re-arranged version put down in the film's final cut.

Ultimately, and that said?

I don't think caring for a person in Odinsleep would be different from what we see on screen.

A whole lot of trying to keep them comfortable, undisturbed, and healthy; while wondering and worrying when and especially -if- they'll even wake up.

--Post Script, and a more direct personal example: Incidentally, and if you're curious: I have written Loki as having gone through his own "Odinsleep" in twenty thirteen, in Book Two (Vestibule 1, Universe 8) of my Lokiverse project: GROUNDED. Yes, that underlined bit is both the title and a link directly to where that long fic is posted on AO3, if you're curious how I handled it there. I suggest reading the chapters leading into that segment to understand how that portion of their multiverse got there, but if you want to skip a bit, the Odinsleep sequence itself starts in Chapter Four and ends in chapter Five, and is ultimately among the last of events before a time skip all the way into Civil War's era. It's not the only time the muses use it, but it is currently the only instance I have published.

#Odin #Odinsleep #Asgardian Lore #technology vs magic #medical #medical limitations #the very odd king-coma #Loki #Frigga #Thor 2011 #GROUNDED #Lokiverse references #Vestibule 1 : Universe 8 #post script fic link #MCU #there is the non-canon confirmed bit where: Odin likely konked out on those steps on purpose to avoid further questioning #while it's not technically canon? #I do definitely think that part is HIGHLY and incredibly likely

[my-emotional-self]

Toxic Love Chapter 4

Pairings: Steve Rogers x Reader, Bucky Barnes x Reader, Steve Rogers x Reader x Bucky Barnes

Summary: Finding out your soulmates were Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes was one thing.  But when someone from your past comes back to haunt you, you have to figure out if a relationship with two super soldiers is something you really want to pursue or if you’d rather go back to your comfortable single life.

Series Warnings:  18+, Swearing, Angst, Fluff, past mentions of rape, self-harm, attempted rape, domestic violence, stalking, death threats, possible Dark!Steve?, Steve will be an asshole a LOT in this series but I don’t know how dark it will get, explicit sexual content, mental health issues, kind of A/B/O dynamics but not really (no they are not actual wolves, more like the hierarchy), mentions of suicide, flashbacks of suicide

A/N: There will be no taglist for this story!  I apologize in advance!

The three of you gathered around the kitchen island and ate the pizza.  Well, more like Steve and Bucky inhaled a whole pizza each while you ate two slices.  The pizza was delicious, probably the best you’d ever had and your stomach was grateful for the yumminess.

“Why don’t you tell us a little about yourself Y/N?” Bucky asked as he licked the grease off his lips.

“What do you want to know?” you replied.  

“Let’s start with your family and where you grew up.”

You shrugged as you wiped your fingers with a napkin.  “There isn’t really much to say.  I grew up in a small town in the Midwest.  Both my parents died when I was a teenager.  I never knew my grandparents and I was an only child, same with my parents, so I don’t have any other family.  I moved here when I was 20,” you stated honestly.  Well, mostly at least.  Yes, it was true both of your parents died, but how they died was tragic.  They both committed suicide.  First your mother, then your father one year later.  As far back as you could research, mental health issues unfortunately ran in your family and that was including you.  But you weren’t ready to open up that old wound yet. You were on medication to help it and that was that.  Luckily the dosing you were on worked well and you could only hope you wouldn’t need to adjust your medications anytime soon.  

“We know how you feel doll. Obviously all of our family is gone too. But we can make a new family with the three of us,” Bucky stated as he wrapped his metal arm around your shoulders. You liked the sound of that.  The three of you becoming your own family. It sounded nice.  

You gave Bucky a wide smile, mirroring his.  “What have your past relationships looked like?” Steve announced from the other side of you.  

This was something you had been debating on bringing up.  If you weren’t going to tell them about your mental health issues just yet, you didn’t want to lie and be dishonest about John as well.  Taking a deep breath, you held it in for five seconds before releasing it.  “I’ve only been in one relationship before.  His name was John, John Smith.  He’s in prison right now.”

From the corner of your eye you could see Steve clench his fist; his knuckles cracking in the process.   “What happened?” he growled out.    

“He…he umm.  Well, he hit me,” you said, almost as quiet as a mouse but you knew both men had super hearing and they damn well heard you.  

Steve slammed his fist on the granite countertop making you flinch.  

“Steve!” Bucky barked at him in anger.  “You’re not making this situation any better right now.  Calm the fuck down and let her talk.”  Bucky soothed his arm up and down your back.  “Go ahead doll.   We’re listening.”

Nodding, you began to speak again.  “Things were great in the beginning.  He seemed like everything I could have ever asked for in a man.  I didn’t know if or when I would ever meet the two of you so I decided to live my life and date him.   The first six months were a whirlwind of romance.  He was the most charming man I had ever met.  But then things took a turn when I moved in with him. I was ready to have sex yet, but he was sick of waiting.  That first night I moved in, he…he raped me.”

This time you saw Bucky’s right hand clench on the table in front of you while Steve knocked his chair over as he stood up, pacing the kitchen.  “Go on doll,” Bucky urged, trying to keep the anger out of his voice as best he could for you.

“That was just the first time.  He umm, he did it again for weeks.  I wanted to leave, I really did.  But he was rich and he had security around the house.  I knew I couldn’t just up and leave.  Finally, when he demanded I quit my job, I stood up to him and told him no. That was the first time he hit me. That continued for months.  I was ready to give up on myself.”

“What happened next huh? How did he end up in prison?” Steve demanded as he leaned over the counter, staring at you with those piercing eyes.  

“I got lucky,” you replied. “We were out shopping one day.  He felt bad for the wrist he broke the night before so he took me shopping.  One of the sales ladies escorted me into a fitting room and I slipped her a note letting her know what was going on.  I stayed in the fitting room for as long as possible.  And then I heard them.  The police. The sales lady called the police for me and they took him away.  He’s been locked up ever since.”

Closing your eyes, you let the tears slip down your cheek.  “You were so brave,” Bucky cooed as you felt his lips on the top of your head.

“Look at me Y/N,” Steve demanded yet again and that deep feeling to please him was happening again. You snapped your head up and looked directly into his eyes.  “That will never happen in this relationship. Do you understand me?”  You simply nodded.  “Bucky and I would never hurt you like that.  Ever.  You have our word.”  As soon as he finished talking, he stormed out of the kitchen and down the hallway to where you only assumed was his room.  

“Just give him a minute to cool off sweetheart,” Bucky spoke in your ear.  “Stevie gets pent up sometimes and he has a lot on his plate. He may seem like it, but he’s not mad at you.  I promise.”

You collapsed into Bucky’s chest and softy sobbed.  It felt like a weight was lifted off your shoulders and you were relieved to have told them about John.  “I’m so sorry you had to go through that doll.  That will never happen to you again.  We won’t let anything like that happen.”

It couldn’t have been more than 10 minutes later when Steve emerged from his room.  “How about we go down and show you the communal kitchen and living room.  Give you a little tour.  What do you say?”

A small smile broke across your face.  “I’d like that very much.”

As the elevators opened to the communal floor, you jaw dropped.  If you thought Steve and Bucky’s apartment was big, this was ten times the size. Not only were there ample more couches, the television was bigger and there was a large dining table big enough to sit at least twenty people.  

“Holy crap,” you exclaimed in awe.  

“Yeah, Tony likes to go big if you couldn’t already tell,” Steve joked.  

“You think?” you quipped back, earning a smirk from Steve.  

The entire space was void of anyone except the three of you as Steve pulled you further into the living room.  He explained that the group tries to do a movie night at least once a week.  “To make things as fair as possible, Tony pulls a name out of a hat to see who gets to pick the movie that night,” Bucky said.

“Yeah but it doesn’t really work.  There is still always complaining and bitching from everyone else.  Mainly Clint,” Steve chimed in.  

It made you giggle, genuinely giggle and it felt good.  That hadn’t happened in quite some time.  

Steve and Bucky guided you towards the hallway, explaining that these were the ‘hobby rooms’ of everyone and their soulmates.  Steve opened the door to the one at the end of the all on right left side.  

“This will be your room. You can make it anything you want. But I’m going to guess this will be your game room where you work.”

“That would be correct,” you answered as you turned on the light.  The room was very decent sized and you would have no problem fitting all of your gamer stuff in here.  Hell, there would be a lot of room left over and you were quickly trying to think what else you could fit in here.  

“C’mon.  Let’s go back to our floor and we can show you your room up there.”

On the elevator ride back to their apartment, Steve and Bucky explained who all lived in the tower and who their soulmates were.  Tony and Pepper were soulmates together, along with Bruce.  Bruce was best friends with Tony and more of a brother figure to Pepper. Then there was Natasha, Clint and Darcy Lewis and they were all in an intimate relationship together.  Lastly, there was Thor and Jane but they didn’t stay in the tower too much as they spent most of their time on Asgard.  

Steve stopped in front of your door.  It was across the hall from Bucky’s and right next door to Steve’s.  

“Go ahead and open it,” Steve said with a smile.  “Just place your hand over the screen.”

Taking a deep breath, you did as he said and placed your hand, palm down, on the digital screen where there would normally have been a doorknob.  With a soft click, the door opened for you and you walked into your new place.  It was nothing like what you were thinking. You were honestly just guessing it would be a bedroom, but no, this was an entire apartment.  

Straight ahead was a decent sized kitchen.   There was dark cherry wood cabinet with black granite countertops and stainless steel appliances.  To the left is what you would assume would be the living room, however it was completely bare of any furniture.  As you continued to move through the apartment you found that the bedroom was all the way in the back.  It was a very nice sized master bedroom with the biggest walk in closet and on suite bathroom you had ever seen.  

“What do you think?” Bucky asked as he came up behind you and placed his hands on your shoulders.  

“It’s big,” you replied with a chuckle.  

“I’m going to have Tony’s interior designer email you.  Give him examples and ideas of what you would like and she will make it happen.  Don’t worry about prices.  This is Tony’s gift to you.”

Your eyes grew wide at his statement.  “Are you sure?”

“Yes sweetheart,” Steve replied as he slipped his hand in yours.  “We want the best for you.  Whatever you want this new home of yours to look like, then so be it.  We will make it happen for you.”

~~~

That night as you lay in bed after spending time with Steve and Bucky, you couldn’t help but frown. Things had seemed to be going much better tonight than they did when you first met them two days ago.  Now, you had to pack up your apartment and move. You weren’t really nervous about that part, hell, you were looking forward to it.  But then it meant things were starting to get real.  When things start to get intimate with them, would you be able to let yourself go and do that?  Would things be vanilla in the bedroom? Would you be able to tell them that because the only sexual experiences you’ve ever had was being raped, that you could now only get yourself off on violent fantasies of being raped, or tied up, or choked?  Fuck, what was wrong with you?

#steve rogers x reader #steve rogers x you #steve rogers fanfiction #bucky barnes x reader #bucky barnes x you #bucky barnes fanfiction #steve rogers fanfic #steve rogers smut #bucky barnes fanfic #bucky barnes smut #dark!steve rogers #dark! steve rogers

[make-loki-happy-again]

A lot of people say it is biphobic and bi erasure to be unhappy at the thought of Loki ending up with a feminine presenting character. And I agree. Very, very often it is.

But as a bisexual woman myself, I am unhappy about that too. Not because I think bi characters should not end up in a "straight" relationships or because I have some unhealthy need for gay ships with any character I like.

I am dissappointed because they confirmed Loki as bi/pan but didn't show us any of it. They could have showed us Loki in queer relationships or situations. Then giving him a girlfriend wouldn't bother me at all (even if selfcest seems a bit questionable for the main canon relationship - but you know what? I don't care, they can go for it, she is kinda cool).

Some easy examples:

1. They could have showed us Loki flirting with a man instead of a woman on that plane (don't get me wrong, she was really cute and I liked that scene, but it's just to make a point about how easy it would be to show he can be flirty with men).

2. Even tho I don't think Loki and Mobius would be a healthy relationship and I never really shipped them or wanted for them to become canon, they could give us some obvious scenes of them flirting or even just of Loki trying to flirt to gain his trust/sympathy or to fool him.

3. Instead of the scene with Lady Sif (that was imo performed really well by the way, they both did a great job here!) they could have showed us a painfull memory with a male lover. Maybe getting rejected? Maybe finding out he is dead or even seeing him die in a battle? Maybe even showing that Asgard can be a homophobic place by having someone mock Loki for his interests (and the climactic point, instead of Loki apologising, would be Loki openly standing up against that, proud of who he is). I am just brainstorming, I know those are not perfect queer representation ideas, especially if this would be the only "queer" moment for Loki. But it was still an opportunity to give us something.

Or they could show us some "wlw looking" moment with Sylvie! That would work too even tho she is not the main character here. Maybe some cute moment with Hunter B-15?

Instead, they gave us Loki flirting with a woman on the plane and then hinted that the endgame may (or may not) be Loki and his feminine presenting version and that their romantic love may be some super powerful thing. It is disappointing. It's like they confirmed his bi/pansexuality but are only willing to explore one side of it.

And honestly, I don't even dislike the idea of Loki "falling for himself". I just wish they gave us a bit more of his bi/pansexuality on screen instead of just jumping into the relationship that can be seen as "straight", at least from the outside perspective, immidiatelly after confirming that they are both bi/pan.

EDIT: I realised I called Sylvie a woman and I changed that to feminine presenting character because even tho they didn't mention it in the show, I still believe that Sylvie is genderfluid just as Loki is and that we will get some proof of that in canon.

I also feel the need to clarify: I don't dislike this ship and I won't be angry or sad if it becomes canon. They are cute together and I don't care at all if it's selfcest or not.

And yes, bisexual people are still bisexual, no matter who we date. Our relationships don't define our sexuality. Please don't say they made Loki or Sylvie straight! Instead you can say, for example, that their relationship is straight-passing. ^-^

But it is still sad that big companies always choose to portray only the "safe part" of our sexuality.

It's the same with their genderfluidity. Presenting the way they do doesn't make them any less genderfluid. I just wish they showed us some bigger hint on screen instead of making one of them presenting feminine and using only she/her pronouns all the time and the other presenting masculine and using only he/him pronouns all the time without a hint for anything else and never mentioning it (but I am very cis myself so I feel like this is not my place to be a judge of that).

Still, I am really happy that Loki is confirmed bisexual even if it was only one sentence! I enjoy the show and I have nothing against Loki and Sylvie! 🖤

#loki #loki spoiler #loki series #loki series spoiler #loki series spoilers #loki spoilers #loki odinson #loki odinsdottir #loki friggadottir #loki friggason #sylvie #loki x sylvie #sylvie x loki #bisexual loki #bi loki #pansexual loki #pan loki #the loki show #the loki series #marvel #mcu #tva #loki episode 4 #loki episode 4 spoiler #loki episode 4 spoilers #pride #bisexuality #pansexuality #loki discourse #loki discussion

[i-dreamed-i-had-a-son]

Alright so I've seen a lot of opinions floating around and now it's time to add my two cents: the show's Loki is both similar to and distinct from the Loki we remember, and that is, or at least can be, a good thing

We have this idea of the "Loki we know," and we're frustrated that he's not being adapted faithfully--and to a degree, this is correct. Marvel very intentionally chose 2012 Loki as the version to resurrect, because that is when Loki was at the height of his popularity. By doing this, they could get the fanbase that Loki has always had to watch the show, while also avoiding much of the character distortion that came after TDW. A great idea! But then, instead of bringing this character into the show and authentically representing him, they smashed him up with Ragnarok Loki's portrayal. This was mostly done to engage general viewers and to maintain a slightly lighter tone, but both of these are mistakes: first of all, the general viewership has never been Loki's core, active fanbase. But I get it--you want to make money. The second, more egregious mistake, is that you absolutely could have kept a lighter tone with 2012's Loki, and then easily adapted him from there. At the end of Avengers, he's making jokes, and we see even more of these in Endgame. That's humor that's authentic to the character, and doesn't feel disrespectful like Ragnarok was. When we see the Ragnarok style of humor popping up, we immediately get defensive because of how that movie treated him, and we say, "This isn't the Loki we know." But the Loki we know is, to a degree...wrong.

This might seem a bit harsh at first, but I think the fandom as a whole is unwilling to let go of a slightly distorted version of Loki, and that's coloring the fan response to the show. Because we've spent so long with a character that has had relatively few instances of development or even screen time, we've become attached to the version of the character we think we know, sometimes without realizing that collective memory has shifted our perception of him slightly. We're unwilling to let the character change at all, even if at points this growth could be done well--and even if the character was faithfully adapted, he would be met with criticism because he wouldn't be "what we know"; he couldn't be, because we as a fandom created that character, over time and without really recognizing it. To a degree, that kind of misplaced criticism is mixing with the legitimate critiques of the series. It makes us unwilling to look at the good things that are present, even among the flaws.

As an example, let's talk about Loki as a planner, and how his actions in the series compare to those in the earlier movies. A common sentiment I've heard is that throughout episode two (and to a degree, episode one) Loki is just kind of going along with everything. He doesn't seem to have a plan, and this makes people uncomfortable, since the "Loki we know" was a great planner. Wasn't he?

Most of the basis for the "Loki we know," comes from Thor and Thor: the Dark World, so I'll be using those as my "proof texts," so to speak. In those two movies, we see plenty of examples of Loki making spur-of-the-moment decisions to take advantage of a situation; he's a very flexible, adaptable character by nature (as I've discussed before), so this makes sense. The trouble is, I think the fandom memory of Loki has shifted enough that we forget exactly why and how he makes these decisions, and how they turn out. In contrast to what those films actually show us, we tend to think of Loki as a very strategic character, who is too clever to be caught off-guard. That's not the case.

Loki, in those films, has very little grasp or consideration of the consequences of his actions, because his emotions cloud his judgement; because of this, his plans (which are created responsively), and even actions he does not plan, fall apart disastrously. In Thor, when Thor is banished from Asgard, Loki sees an opportunity to step into the role his brother had filled. Then he discovers he is actually Laufey's son, and in response to this news and Odin's falling into Odinsleep, Loki plans to double-cross Laufey and kill him to prove his loyalty, taking the throne in the interim. He does have a plan, but it's one that he developed rather spontaneously based on the circumstances--he didn't plan for Odin to fall asleep so that he could assume the throne, that just...happened, and Loki forms a plan to adapt to it. But when he hears that Thor is trying to return to Asgard, all of his insecurities, compounded by having just discovered that he's actually a Jotun, come back full force; desperate to keep the small bit of identity he thinks he's managed to find, Loki sends an Automaton to kill Thor--whom he loves, and has even said so several times in the film--and then tries to destroy the Bifrost to keep Thor from coming back. These are decisions Loki hasn't truly evaluated; if he had, he wouldn't have made them, because they don't line up with his actual goal, as we see when Thor arrives. When Thor confronts him, Loki essentially has a breakdown, admitting in tears that his real motivation for all of this was just to be considered Thor's equal. He didn't hate Thor, he didn't hate Odin, he didn't even want to be king--he just wanted to be loved as much as his brother. But along the way, his real goal was clouded by his emotional state, and he stopped thinking clearly, instead just lashing out in a desperate bid to protect himself from more pain.

We see something similar occur in Thor: TDW. When Loki sends the guards "up the stairs to the left," he's not thinking about who they might find--he's just lashing out because he's been abandoned by his family, and he wants to exert whatever influence he can over the situation. He wants to do something, especially if it causes problems for Odin and Thor, and he thinks the opportunity has just landed in his lap. He hardly planned for it, but he's not going to pass it up. So he takes it unhesitatingly--and his mother dies. (Coincidentally, after both his father's rejection and his mother's death, Loki nearly dies himself, and at least one of those instances was deliberate. Hmmm...Loki doesn't want to live with the consequences of his actions? It's too painful for him to face what he's done?? Hmm??? But that's beside the point.) Once again, Loki's goals are unclear, and things go wrong because he's just acting on emotion.

All this to say, for Loki, plans are very flexible things that are basically defined as "whatever works best to get what I want," so to say that Loki is just going along with things in the series, and is thus out-of-character, is a bit of an unfair criticism; despite our misremembering, he is, as he's always done, very much acting as a reactive planner. As I've spelled out before, when Loki is thrown into the new environment of the TVA, he immediately starts gathering information, and shaping his responses based off of what he finds. He takes the chances he has to feel things out (at the Renaissance fair, for example), but mostly he bides his time and actively observes until an opportunity arises. This is standard for him, but viewers haven't really been receptive to it, because it isn't what we're expecting.

Now, Loki claims to have a larger plan (something that we think we remember being common), but that's not actually the case. When speaking to Lady Loki/(Enchantress??), he says his ultimate goal is to overthrow the TVA--but he also framed his supposed overall plan as "get an audience with the Time Keepers" when speaking to Mobius. Neither of these are true. In order to more effectively manipulate others, he pretends to have large-scale motivations: with Lady Loki/Enchantress, he knows she will likely only respect him if he claims to have an endgame, since she so clearly does herself, so he manufactures one she likely wouldn't oppose. Mobius, on the other hand, would likely be suspicious without the red-herring Loki throws him; since Mobius believes Loki's trying to get an audience with the Time Keepers, he doesn't become suspicious about how quickly Loki becomes eager to catch the other variant, which would otherwise have been an appropriately huge red flag. But these are just misdirections, further things that Loki is doing to keep himself in the best position possible. That's why his claims of a grand plan (particularly to Lady Loki/Enchantress) sound sudden or unrealistic: they are. But because we think we remember Loki being someone who would have a larger plan, we aren't able to see that he doesn't need to.

This time, unlike in Thor and TDW, Loki's immediate goals are clear: escape the TVA. Be free. Despite Mobius' attempts to get him into a hyper-emotional, and thus, less careful, state of mind, Loki keeps his wits about him. He's intentional with his decisions. He's not lashing out. For once, he's aware of and considers the consequences of his actions--we see him weighing the options as he stands in front of the portal--and he makes the right decisions because his goal is clear in his mind. And this makes all the difference. Loki plays the game expertly, and for the first time, he wins--he escapes.

And I think this is an excellent development, one that deserves more appreciation than we're giving it. It's a good thing that he's not behaving how we think we remember him, as some master planner--that would be being unfaithful to his character. Loki isn't the same as Lady Loki/Enchantress. He doesn't have a grand plan. He just, finally, knows what he really wants. That shows growth, and that is the kind of change we have to want to see, and be willing to accept; so in that regard, it's even good that this Loki is different than he actually was. The Loki we see in Thor and TDW is a highly emotional, and very broken, character, who reacts to his environment often without thinking of the potential consequences; the Loki we're being shown here is still emotional, still clearly affected by what he's gone through, but is now able--or is now being allowed!--to demonstrate his actual capabilities. He ACTUALLY GETS WHAT HE WANTS. That's the first time that's happened, the first time his attempts to protect himself or outsmart someone have actually ended in success instead of disaster. And that's exactly what you should do with a character.

Now, a valid quibble with Loki's characterization is that these things are not obvious, and that is a very legitimate criticism. It's hard to see that Loki is manipulating Mobius by pretending to be helpful, because the show seems to be framing it in a way that encourages us to take Loki at face value. Loki's behavior is an intentional obfuscation, but it can be hard to realize that if it seems like that's what the show is telling us Loki really is. Personally, I justify this by saying that the show is showing us Loki as he wants to be perceived--when Loki is bluffing in episode one, he seems cartoonish and over the top, but certainly nothing like he actually is, and this is what he intends. When he seems too jovial and trusting in episode two, that's because that's what he's presenting to Mobius. It's about whether we buy into the act as much as the other characters do--which is why Loki's most in-character scenes come when he's alone. When he has no one to perform for, he stops performing for us, too, and we see the genuine presentation. But, I could be wrong--maybe this isn't intentional at all. Maybe the writers really are just trying to revamp a character from 2012 and are doing it clumsily, and that's why he seems out of character in moments like those. It's too early to say, and honestly, we may never be sure.

But there are real, valid, and undeniable moments of positive development, the likes of which Loki has never had the space to experience before. They are present if you are willing to look--but they are much less obvious to people who don't want to see them. I agree, they are hard to see, and if I'm being honest, I haven't loved the show anywhere near as much as I would have liked to so far. But I think the fandom as a whole is so caught up in this idea of the "Loki we know" that they don't see the Loki we have for what he is--people are too attached to a misremembering of Loki's previous actions to realize that the change in his behavior isn't a regression or a flaw in his writing but a sign of growth. We're too attached to his brokenness and weakness to let him become strong.

We are defensive about Loki's character because of how it's been mishandled in the past, but if you actually look, you'll find that there is actually a lot of good in what we're being given. I'd agree that the show has to get better about making that obvious if it wants to succeed. But I think some of the harsh criticism the show has been receiving is unwarranted. It might not be perfect, and some of these decisions on the parts of the writers might not be intentional, but Loki has always been a character we've had to think about in order to understand him. Just like this show, there is much good about him beneath the surface. And for as much trouble as it causes sometimes--I'm glad that isn't changing.

#loki #loki series #loki series spoilers #meta #marvel #my meta posts #i just want us to give it a chance ok? if we give it a chance and think about it who knows--maybe it will surprise us just like loki does #and i do think that we have grown so attached to 'our' version of loki that we haven't realized it isn't truly attainable #we've had nothing for so long that we've formed this idealized image of the character that no portrayal can ever live up to #and while this is a natural consequence of how marvel has handled things i don't believe it's fair to judge it so quickly #we should keep an open mind is how i see it. who knows? maybe things will change. #and i have a feeling that that openness to change will be a major theme of the show #loki as a character is finding himself and perhaps we can find him along with him #because some change is necessary to bring him successfully into the present mcu. and they can handle it better--but so can we #this might be a hot take? idk i just have a lot of thoughts #but please no discourse! discussion is encouraged and i know emotions run high bc loki is very important to us but let's be kind ❤️ #kay has a party in the tags #kay can i just catch my breath for a second #quality meta seal of approval #not to hype my own post up i just put that on all meta posts so that i can find them

[lokiondisneyplus]

Disney+'s Loki Season 1 was weird, wild, and wonderful; all spurred on by the god of mischief himself, as Tom Hiddleston’s Loki went to the far reaches of the MCU’s reality and back to change everything, including representation in our corner of the sacred timeline. As discussions about representation for the LGBTQIA+ community focus on seeing themselves in media, Loki’s premiere during pride month elicited discussions and excitement from fans and critics. The topic, what does Loki being bisexual. Where do we go from here has been on everyone’s mind, but the answer is simple. As Loki prepares for Season 2, it’s time for Marvel to take the next step and explore the character’s gender fluidity.

Loki’s MCU popularity is somewhat ironic given the character's original roots in the mythology. The Norse counterpart to Hiddleston’s trickster was the son of the giant Farbauti and the goddess Laufey, who managed to wiggle his way into Odin’s family. He is described as a shapeshifter; taking multiple forms like a salmon, a mare, and an old woman. Depending on the source material, Loki (much like other deities) shapeshifted and schemed his way into the myths that shape the world: When bound to a rock beneath a serpent, if the serpent drips venom on him it causes earthquakes. He sired Hel, the goddess of death, Fenrir, the wolf, and Jörmungandr — a snake eating its own tail.

Loki has counterparts in multiple other pantheons (Anansi from West African and Carribean mythology, Hermes from Greek Mythology, to name a few) but he’s front and center in Marvel and the fan dedication to the character (where else are you going to get a room full of fully grown people screaming a villain’s name?) means that Marvel can tell stories with him including stories that focus on what Loki represents in comics canon, who the character has become in the modern mythos of the MCU.

In the MCU, Loki's story is a sad one. In Thor, he discovers that he was adopted, that he will never be King of Asgard despite his brother Thor being a brute, and decides to make himself an enemy of the Gods of Asgard and the humans on earth slowly learning about what lies beyond the solar system. Outcast and alone, he becomes Thor’s primary motivation to fight, battles the Avengers and nearly takes over earth, and finally sacrifices himself to save Thor and the other Asgardians seemingly undergoing a redemption arc. In fact, Loki has had two redemptive arcs, both of which speak to people who have struggled to repair themselves and contribute to society. His story is that of someone who has always sought to accept himself — much like those in the LGBTQ+ community.

Now that his redemption is (seemingly) out of the way, there are other parts of Loki’s comic history that writers can tackle, including his shape-changing abilities and his fluid sexuality. Neither are unusual in the media (you could make an argument that Loki’s mythological arc where he gets impregnated and gives birth to an eight-legged horse is a sort of ancient world blockbuster event).

Loki being genderfluid should be Marvel’s next step in on-screen representation because all of the character’s traits point to it being the logical choice. For one thing, the story of a being who feels abandoned in their own family is one common to every sphere, but it fits in well in the LGBTQIA+ community. Statistics regarding transgender children point out that over half have ​​considered some sort of self-harm without support. Support leads to a decrease in suicidal thoughts as well as suicidal attempts. Loki never went through those things, but for many now cheering his bisexuality seeing a character with that backstory doing good and being seen in the public doing some good is much-needed representation.

In all other continuities, Loki is a bisexual genderfluid being. Using the so-called “God of Outcasts” to introduce bisexual and genderfluid characters to the MCU is a smart decision. Loki’s large fanbase puts him on avengers merchandise and front and center in Avengers canon. His villainy and transformation to anti-hero with two redemptive arcs has brought his engaging character to the forefront of his own story. As he says, he’s “writing his own destiny,” something members of the LGBTQ+ community can relate to, and he and his variants can ask the audience to question their preconceived notions of the bisexual and genderfluid community.

There are certain behaviors that come with being genderfluid. There is the notion that constraining oneself to a particular set of societal expectations of gender is ridiculous. There is a focus on individuality over conformity on such a base topic. As so many people say, gender is a spectrum and to describe individually what gender means to specific people, doesn’t do it justice.

Rather there are practices and behaviors that Marvel could study and put into stories. Loki’s change in appearance and outfits could come with new pronouns (a facet of being transgender and genderfluid, as pronouns are a source of hot debate in the cisgender community) and audiences would be more willing to accept it thanks to the dedication of his loyal fans and his anti-hero status. Loki is cunning, Loki is full of guile, and Loki has proven himself because people love the character. Villains from underrepresented groups are frequent. The audience’s love has writers wanting to explore his sympathetic backstory. That changes the equation. Members of the LGBTQ+ community understand what it’s like to be declared villains.

The show has made massive strides in representation, even casting queer actors to play Loki(s). DeObia Oparei’s Boastful Loki exemplifies just what Loki and the MCU should be striving for, representation and work — building characters who can be examples to others. Oparei went to Twitter and thanked Marvel for its work, but it’s work that must continue.

From his beginnings as a trickster god to his inclusion in the modern mythos of the MCU, Loki is a powerful figure, and the new Disney+ series has set him up to be both a real anti-hero and an embraced character. Since audiences have now embraced his sexuality, it’s time to embrace the next step and use Loki, Sylvie, and any other Loki variants to explore what being transgender, what being genderfluid, truly means in modern mythology and beyond.

Loki Season 1 is streaming now on Disney+. A second season has been announced.

#Loki #genderfluid

[alirhi]

Loki ranting

Okay. I had this thought in my head of like just compiling links of all the Loki shit I've posted/reblogged so far so that when I get into a conversation about the show and how it fucking disgusted me, I can just be like "here. here's this masterlist post, go read all this shit. This is my entire argument, and not only mine, but a lot of stuff posted by people far more intelligent and level-headed and eloquent than I am, whom I happen to agree with." Because the alternative is constantly getting fired up all over again, and that is exhausting.

BUT! I'm stupid and don't know how tumblr works. Apparently I can't just be like "give me all the Loki-tagged shit I've got" I can only search all the Loki-tagged shit on all of tumblr. And I'm not scrolling back through all of my posts. I talk too fucking much for that shit 😂

So, I'll try to remember all of my grievances with how the MCU has treated Loki, and all of the excellent posts made by other, equally upset fans, and put it all together here under this nice, neat little cut for everyone else's sanity and scrolling convenience...

For people who actually read my shit fairly regularly - bless you, you crazy, patient people. I love you! - this is going to be a lot of repetition of shit you've already read. Probably at least twice. I'm passionate and I have a terrible memory lol. Sorry.

Anyway, first, for those who don't know me and haven't been following my explosions of rage for the past couple of months, some quick background: I do not read comic books, so Loki's Marvel comic canon means nothing to me. I know almost nothing about it. The reason I'm so in love with the character in the MCU is because I am an eclectic witch and the deity I've actively loved and worshiped the longest in my life (literally for as long as I can remember) is Loki. So when he was mentioned in The Mask, I squeed. When they named Matt Damon's character after him in Dogma, I cheered.

When Thor came out in 2011, I just about died from happiness. I was hungry for any representation of this underappreciated god, no matter what it was. I didn't even bitch about how underpowered he was, because at least he was there. But I'm getting slightly ahead of myself.

I can hear anyone reading this going "Why Loki? Isn't he, like, evil? Like basically the Norse version of The Devil?" Because I heard all this shit irl all the fucking time. And no. So let me give you a quick rundown of who Loki actually is.

Loki is a Trickster God. He's often referred to as the God of Mischief. He is not and never was evil, simply chaotic and hedonistic. Loki Laufeyjarson was the son of Laufey (that's mama; they changed her to a man for some reason in the movie) and Fárbauti. Right from the start, from his name, we get a sign of how Loki goes against traditional norms of the time, because in Norse culture, families were patrilineal, and surnames were "son/daughter of father" (which would have made him Loki Fárbautitason), not the mother. But Loki's surname is matrilineal. Feminist icon woo! lol

Though he's a Jotunn, Loki is counted among the Gods (Aesir) in Norse tradition. Depending on his mood, he is alternately helpful or disruptive to the other Gods. I'm not gonna sit and teach a whole text class on him lol but I'll use my favorite example of Misunderstood Loki - the conception of Sleipnir!

So, get this shit. This is also part of why I DO NOT follow Odin and never fucking will (a very small part, but still part of the reason). So, the other Norse Gods are petty motherfuckers, and they wanted some shit built but didn't want to pay the dude doing the building. So they were like "okay, if you can get it done in X amount of time, we'll pay you, but if you can't manage it NO MATTER WHAT, this whole thing is free." And they made sure he had NO help, nothing but him, his materials, and his Very Good Horsey. And this guy and his horse were fucking BAMFs. So it was looking like he was definitely gonna get it done in time, and Odin was like "nah, fuck that shit. I'm cheap." and so he sent Loki to distract the work horse. Loki transformed into a mare and lured the horse away, got fucked, got pregnant, gave birth to the 8-legged (for some reason) horse Sleipnir. Odin rides Loki's son into battle. Um. Kay.

So Loki helped Odin be a petty mf, and Odin got himself a new pet out of the deal.

Oh, also, because he's smart af and a shapeshifter and a master magician and genderfluid, Loki "fails" to fit the super fucking toxic and narrow Norse/Aesir view of "a real man". He prefers intelligence and manipulation to solve problems rather than violence, he's not afraid to behave like a clown if it gets shit done, and that grosses the Aesir out, so they constantly ridicule him for being "less than a man".

Loki is the God of the outcast and the misunderstood. The marginalized people from all walks of life. He is the God of the LGBT community. In modern terms, he's pansexual, polyamorous (married to Sigyn and they are deeply in love, but boy gets around and I've never seen any indication that Sigyn gives a shit) and genderfluid.

Okay. Focus, Ali. This is part of why I usually post multiple rants instead of one big long one XD The longer I ramble, the more I get sidetracked and forget the original point.

So. Loki's awesome, and being a Trickster, is powerful as all fucking hell. There's not much he can't do.

And now we come to Thor (the movie, not the deity). Loki's there! 24-year-old Ali is spazzing! All is right with the world!

Oh lord, they've actually done him justice?! Amazing! He's complex and nuanced and emotional, just like the real Loki! I loved this movie. Loved. It. The climactic thing with trying to blow up Jotunheim never really made much sense to me until someone made an excellent point the other day about Loki being raised in a racist society that was racist against his own race, he just didn't know it yet, poor child. Baby Thor was never corrected when he pledged to commit mass genocide, so Baby Loki probably absorbed the lesson then that Jotunns=evil and killing them all will win his father's love. Anyway, 2011 Loki was a beautiful, heartbreaking portrayal of the God I've loved all my life and spent 24 years longing to see depicted on the big screen.

Then The Avengers happened. And I saw another Loki very close to Norse mythology - mainly, how he's treated. In the beginning of the movie, he's sick, exhausted, and in pain. He can hardly stand, he stumbles and needs help when he walks. He was very obviously tortured, and the sickly blue light of the scepter's control is in his eyes. That gets less and less pronounced as the movie goes on, showing Loki working his way free of it, but in the beginning, he's a mess. Because he was tortured and used by Thanos. Marvel directly confirmed this, and that he was under the scepter's/Mind Stone's control. Loki's actions are not his own in The Avengers. He's under both threat and Thanos' direct control. The movie actually shows The Other directly threatening him to keep him on task, because this is not Loki's plan. It is not what he wants. He's being used and villainized... Just like in real life. It hurt to see this done to him, but the accuracy was too beautiful to ignore.

Thor: The Dark World comes out. I've heard people complain that this movie is the weak link in the Thor trilogy. I disagree. I think that's Ragnarok, for a bunch of reasons, but we'll get there. (And for the record, I loved Ragnarok, too. It was a funny movie. Infinity War and the Disney+ series are the only portrayals of Loki in the MCU that I truly fucking hated.) Anyway, good, fun movie. Had its faults, as all movies do, but it still followed Loki's real-life arc in a way. How? By having Loki dragged back to Asgard in chains and imprisoned underground. Again, not super happy that this happened to my love, and having to see it on screen was painful, but at least in the MCU he's not chained to a rock with venom dripping on his face for eternity, so there's that. (poor Sigyn. how tired do her arms get, holding up that bowl? best wife ever, amirite?)

In TDW, we're shown Loki's love for Frigga, who favored him and taught him magic as a child. We see his bravado; his attempts to mask his true feelings, especially grief. We see him slowly coming back to himself after the events of The Avengers, and slowly mending his relationship with his brother. He accepts that Odin will likely never love him, but Thor just might, because they were close when they were young. "I didn't do it for him." No, no my sweet, you did it for your brother, and a little out of guilt for what happened to your mother.

At the end, Loki fakes his death and escapes, taking the throne, and I have mixed feelings about this. Not the writer's choices here; I love that completely! A natural progression in Loki's story. But my joy is tainted by how closely they're following the Eddas now. Because Loki's escape from his prison heralds the beginning of Ragnarok. And Loki will die in Ragnarok. I don't want to see that play out in front of my face. I won't be able to handle the grief (spoiler alert! IW broke me. I almost walked out of the theater. Loki's death was legitimately fucking traumatic for me. I don't even care how pathetic that is. That grief was real, it was intense, and I still shake and cry when I think about it.)

Marvel announces that Thor 3 will be called Ragnarok. The internet treats this as a shocking revelation. I roll my eyes and mumble "duh" to myself and move on XD

Then they say Ragnarok will be a buddy comedy. I throw up a little in my mouth and no longer want to live on this planet. If they're going to make something called Ragnarok, could they at least treat it with even a fraction of the respect they've shown these characters thusfar? Jfc. I mean, I'll see it anyway, because I'm a whore for Tom Hiddleston lol. But come on, people!

I hated that they made Hel the long-lost older sister and Fenrir her fucking pet/attack dog. Those are my favorites of Loki's children! Hel is such an incredible badass that the early Christians named their dimension of eternal torture after her! They were terrified of her, to the point of naming the place that terrified them most after her. That's awesome! And Fenrir's just the best. I love wolves. Those two details, and Odin's retcon of "we're not Gods! ...lol, except your sister. she's totally a Goddess. and def gonna kill literally everything, so... good luck! byyyeeeee" pissed me off royally.

The rest was great. I genuinely liked this movie. Still do. And they finally used The Immigrant Song! That was pretty cool. If they'd thrown in Bring the Hammer Down and Thunderstruck, I might've called this movie perfect. XD

I wasn't totally in love with their portrayal of Loki in Ragnarok. Yes, the falling for 30 minutes line was funny, as was "I have to get off this planet" and "YES! That's how it feels!" And "Get Help" was funny as hell. But also, like... There is no way Loki would have been the dumb one in that first encounter with Hela. Also, he can teleport and project copies of himself and shit, so... He would not have been that desperate to go straight back to Asgard and bring her right along with them. Loki's not stupid. But whatever. Movie's gotta movie.

What I did love was seeing the slow mending of his relationship with Thor continuing, and the badass fighting on the bridge. I also loved that, like Real Loki, Movie Loki helped when help was needed, was quick and clever, and while he was carrying out the main plan, he was also planning ahead and grabbing the Tesseract. Yes, that drew Thanos right to them, but that's a whole other thing. Loki never would have left that thing on Asgard to be destroyed or lost.

And now Infinity War. Hooooly fucking shit. You know what? No. I'm not going into this. He was killed, years of character growth were erased forever, my heart fucking shattered. The end.

Endgame. IW hurt me so bad I didn't see Endgame until this year. I actually watched Civil War first (for context: I had actively avoided all Cap movies until this year because I fucking hate Steve Rogers. I find him insufferable. Did not realize what I was denying myself until I watched CW and finally saw the charms of Bucky. When he appeared in IW, I was so lost. XD I was like "...who dis? Murder Jesus?" also I just... didn't care. I was numb by then from crying through most of the movie over Loki)

So, anyway. Endgame. Loki picks up the Tesseract in alternate 2012, escapes, fans go "yay! he didn't actually die!" I go "yes he fucking did. Five years of his life, gone. Five years of growth and change, erased. Loki is dead. This will not be the same."

I was more right than I could have predicted. Now we come to the point of this rant. Sorry it took so long, but you were warned lol.

The Loki series makes me so angry I actually get sick to my stomach. It was fucking TRASH. When I praised Marvel for following Norse mythology so faithfully earlier? Yeah. I DID NOT MEAN TREAT HIM THE WAY THE OTHER GODS DID. I did not mean paint him as a pitiful clown, a joke, a caricature of who he truly was, with his pain and suffering played for LAUGHS.

This is supposed to be 2012 Loki, newly freed from Thanos' control. The Loki we saw in the beginning of TDW - snarky, exhausted, nihilistic. The Loki who rolled his eyes and said "get on with it" expecting to be killed.

The bumbling clown flipping on a dime from posturing to calling himself weak is not 2012 Loki. That is not ANY Loki. That is Tom Hiddleston in a black wig doing what he's told by a shitty writer who had no fucking idea what he was doing and was salty about his (bad) original script (for something totally fucking unrelated) getting killed.

In Episode 1, Loki is mocked, imprisoned, stripped against his will, tormented, belittled, and given a flippant summary of all the trauma Actual MCU Loki suffered that this one skipped out on, with no context, no acknowledgement of the trauma he's already lived quite fucking recently, and with the narrative twisted to not only erase all the abuse he's suffered, but to make it all his fault. And this is supposed to make him want to help these people?

And worse, IT FUCKING WORKS. WHAT?! I CAN'T- FUCKING WHAT?! Remember when I said LOKI IS NOT FUCKING STUPID?! So why is he STUPID?

Episode 2, he's a child. Mentally, this Loki is a fucking child. Now we've erased all the growth and development of his entire adult life. He's dopey, impatient, impulsive, desperate for a pat on the back and actually shows it. Yes, abused and neglected children crave the positive attention we never received, and we often grow up to be a bit emotionally stunted. But not all of us, and not Loki. Not as we've seen him EVER in the rest of the MCU. Playful and a bit callous at times? Absolutely! But not a big dumb fucking puppy.

Episode 3, a ray of hope, despite Sylvie! (I hate Sylvie) Loki casually admits he's pan/bi; labels never come up, but he admits to being with both men and women! He sings! Not really relevant to whether I approve of his portrayal or not lol but Tom has a beautiful voice, Norwegian ("Asgardian" lol) is a gorgeous, entrancing language, and I could watch that one bit on loop for eternity and never get bored. And then, finally, we see a glimpse - a glimpse - of Loki's power! He stops a falling building and pushes it right back up! Are we finally getting to see what he can really do? Will the next episode bring us Loki in all his glory?

Nope. 4 and 5 we see him mocked and pushed around and utterly irrelevant. Again. We see tiny reflections of what he could maybe theoretically do in other random Loki variants, but the "main" (lawl. main. it was the Sylvie and Mobius show. Loki was never the main anything.) Loki? Nothing. He wears his heart on his sleeve for no reason, bonds with the man who imprisoned, taunted, and gaslit him, is killed, and continues to be a moron and a joke. Always the clown. Always the dumb one. The one with the bad ideas. The inferior Loki.

Don't even get me started on that finale. I can't. This already took so much out of me. Fuck Marvel. Fuck this fucking show. I just... I'm done.

#loki #loki spoilers #loki series #loki negativity #loki hate #thor 2011 #the dark world #ragnarok #the avengers #infinity war #endgame #fuck sylvie #fuck marvel #fuck disney #this show sucked #ragepost #rant #long post #ali is angry

[worstloki]

please read the article 'How White Fandom is Colonizing "Character-Coding"' by Shafira Jordan and quit while you're ahead

Okay, so I read it and see the problem, and I’ll try to address all their points in order because I don’t wholly agree with the article. I know it’s a lot to read so I’ve put tldr; sections at the end of each :)

Misusing the Term Reinforces Negative Stereotypes for Marginalized People 

The article essentially argues that labeling characters which are villainous as POC-coded is bad because they’re not morally pure and doing so "reinforces the idea that people of color are naturally dangerous and not to be trusted.”

Which is fair as you don’t want all the representation to be of ‘bad’ characters, but I also don’t believe all representative characters have to be ‘good’ either as it would be equally racist to divide good/bad in such a way. Not that I would place Loki under ‘bad’ to begin with, but arguing that characters shouldn’t be labelled as POC-coded for reasons unrelated to what’s presented in the narrative or because they did bad things is :/ even if lack of good representation is a prevalent issue in current Western and influenced media. 

Ideally there should be a range of representative characters that fall into ‘good’, ‘bad’, and ‘anywhere in-between’ because variety and complexity in character types should, in theory, be treated as common practice (which can only happen with a multitude of representation!).

And a bit unrelated but... within the fictional context of Thor 1, all the Jotnar (sans Loki) are presented to the audience as ‘bad’ by default. They desperately want to get their Casket back to the point of attempting stealing it (from the ‘good’ characters), they fight the heroes and even when the gang and Thor (’good’ characters) are enjoying or going overboard with taking lives it’s inconsequential, Laufey wants to kill the opposing king (who just happens to be a ‘good’ character) and will resort to low-handed methods to do so, etc. The narrative itself is from the frame of reference of the ‘good’ and we only see warriors of Jotunheim though so we understand why it’s like this, because regardless of their race/experiences the narrative carries, even if it most definitely would be seen as racist from our real-life perspectives if the ‘monstrous’ race were presented by actual people of colour, even if it would make sense for the people on on different realms living in different environments to be different from each other, and realistic even for that to be the root of some conflict. 

tldr; not using a specific label to prevent negative presentations of the characters seems a bit strange to do when the coding would be based off the text, but with limited representation available I see why it would be done, even if I still believe minority-coding is free game to expand/interpret.

Improperly Labeling a Character as “POC-coded” Suggests the Experiences of All People of Color are the Same 

The article argues that labeling Loki as POC-coded “suggests that all people of color have the same experiences, when in reality, people of color come from different places, have different cultures, and have different traditions.” And while it’s true that the term doesn’t go into detail about which particular experiences (and these experiences can vary vastly due to diversity!) the appropriate measure would be to remove the umbrella term POC altogether as people of colour tend to also vary. But that’s also exactly why it’s an all-encompassing general term? It’s a way to denote anyone who isn’t “white” and has the associated cultural privilege that comes with the concept of white supremacy.  

And, obviously, in the fictional setting presented, the concept of white supremacy is not prodded at, but cultural supremacy is definitely one that makes recurring appearances, right next to the parts about Asgard being a realm built on imperialism with ongoing colonial practice. 

My take on this is that Loki’s narrative features a struggle with identity after finding out he’s of a different race and was being treated differently his entire life and being Jotun was presumably a part of the reasoning even if he didn’t know it. He’s basically treated as of less worth for inherently existing differently. I do believe that racism is a common-enough POC experience, but that while Loki was born with blue skin he passes/appears white which is why I don’t say that Loki is a POC, just that he has been coded/can be interpreted this way. 

There’s also the entire thing with Loki trying to fit in and prove he belongs by trying to fit the theory and be The Most Asgardian by committing genocide (which ultimately makes no difference as he’s still not the ‘acceptable’ version of Asgardian), and the denial/rejection of his birth culture in destructively lashing out towards them (which even Thor is confused by because Loki isn’t typically violent), and the fact his self worth plummets and he is passively suicidal upon finding out he’s Jotun (internalized racism? general drop in self-worth after finding out he’s adopted and has been lied to? Bit of both?), but what do I know, I’m sure none of those are, at their base, common experiences or relatable feelings for anyone or decent rep because we see such themes on-screen presented wonderfully in different lights all the time. 

tldr; every set of experiences could be different, some types of discrimination could overlap, if you limit an umbrella term to only very specific circumstances then it’s no longer an umbrella term.

Suggesting that White Characters are Meant to be Seen as People of Color Ignores the Actual Characters of Color that are Present in these Stories

I don’t agree with most of this section, but that may just be the way the arguments are put together, which I don’t blame the author for.

“ Implying that Loki is a person of color completely ignores Heimdall and Hogun, the only Black and Asian Asgardians who appear in the movie. ”

Characters such as Hogun and Heimdall which are played by actual people of colour have smaller roles in the films and any prejudice they could face for being POC in-universe isn’t made apparent, while Loki at the very least comes to the realization that something he couldn’t change (race, parentage,) was having him treated differently his whole life and had to come to terms with it. The Vanir/Aesir are also both treated similarly on-screen, and Heimdall having dark skin isn’t plot relevant, whereas Jotnar are treated as lesser consistently and are relevant through the movie (breaking into the vault, Thor and co. attack Jotunheim, Loki’s deal with Laufey, the attempted regicide (and the successful one XD), destroying jotunheim, Loki saying he’s not Thor’s brother,). 

I also see including characters as POC-coded as... more representation? In all canon-compliant interpretations of the characters Hogun being Vanir is always explicitly mentioned because it’s a fact that just is, up to the appearance and even the world-building of Vanaheim in some fanworks use particularly East Asian culture as inspiration. I have never come across a Marvel fandom Heimdall interpretation where he’s not Black... but because these characters are more minor/side-characters of course they get less attention! 

“ In Loki’s fandom, Heimdall’s name sometimes gets thrown in to suggest that it was he all along who was the real villain due to his “racism” against Loki and the rest of the Jotun. It is, of course, ironic to suggest that somehow the only Black Asgardian to appear in the movie can oppress the privileged white prince. “

I... don’t know where to start with this. But the example of theorizing given in the article wasn’t suggesting Heimdall was bad or trying to explain his actions in Thor 1 by saying he is Black... and just looking at a character’s actions shouldn’t be done less or more critically because of skin tone in my opinion. Heimdall may have been trying to do what was best and protect the realm but if the audience didn’t know that Loki was up to dodgy things then the coding would be switched around because he was trying to spy and committed treason and then tried to kill Loki. People... can hold feelings towards others... regardless of skin... and suspect them... for reasons other than skin... although I do still have questions about whether Heimdall knew Loki was Jotun or not. (Even if I personally don’t think it’d make a difference to how he’d treat Loki?)

Some Loki fans have also suggested that because Jotuns have blue skin that this alone makes him a person of color (even if the audience is only allowed to see Loki in his true Jotun form for mere seconds of screentime). This, again, shows a lack of understanding when it comes to race. It doesn’t matter what skin color the Jotuns have. 

Race can differentiate between physical and/or behavioural characteristics!! Not being blue all the time doesn’t make him any less Jotun!! He’s got internalized stuff to work through and is used to being Aesir!! At least 1 parent is Jotun so even if Loki was passing as Aesir he’s probably Jotun!! (I don’t know how magic space genetics work for sure but Loki being Jotun was an entire very important jump-starting point in Thor 1!!). It’s a fantasy text and typically things like having different coloured skin indicates a different race or is sometimes if a species has multiple then is just considered a skin colour. That’s how coding works!! The Jotnar are very specifically the only race we see in the movie with a skin-tone not within the ‘normal’ human range, which alienates them to the audience from the get-go!! They’re an “other” and on the opposite side to the ‘good’ characters.

Both Loki and his birth father, Laufey (Colm Feore), are played by white men, and it is impossible for a white man to successfully play a character of color. 

The specification of men here bothers me, but yes, you don’t get ‘white’ people to play characters of colour if it can be avoided. (And it can be avoided.)

This also connects with the previous point made that people of color come from various places. There is nothing specifically about the Jotun that could be traced to any specific person of color, and even if there were, there would be no way for white men to portray them without being disrespectful.

This is where arguments about the definition of coding and how specificity/generalizations and do/don’t come in. I know I’m subjective and lean towards the more rep the better, but while I agree ‘white’ people wouldn’t be able to respectfully play a POC I don’t think that rule should have to carry over into fantasy-based fiction. I know texts reflect on reality and reality can reflect within texts, but if contextually there is racial discrimination and there are similar ideas which resonate with the audience’s own experiences I’d say it’s coded well enough to allow that.

tldr; Thor 1′s narrative revolves mainly around Thor and Loki, of which race is kinda kinda a significant theme in Loki’s part of the story. Not so much explored with less-developed side characters such as Heimdall and Hogun, even though their actors are actual people of colour. 

How Much of this is Really Well-Intentioned?

In the fantasy space viking world Heimdall and Hogun don’t face any on-screen prejudice and their appearance is not mentioned (which is nice, for sure! good to have casual rep!) but adding on to the roles they play in the narrative the explicit fantasy-racism in the movie isn't aimed at Asian/Black characters, but towards the Humans -to a lesser extent- and the Jotnar, including Loki, who only just found out he comes under that bracket.

The article mentions how fandom space toxicity often “reaches the actors who portray the characters,“ which is true, and it’s shameful that people have to justify their roles or presences are harassed for the pettiest things like skin tone/cultural background, but I don’t see coding characters as removing the spotlight from interesting characters such as those which are actually POC, rather expressing a demand for more rep, since well-written complex characters which are diverse are often absent/minor enough in the media, and therefore can get easily brushed aside in both canon and fandom spaces.

tldr; It’s obviously not a replacement for actual representation, but, if a character is marginalized and can be interpreted as coded, even if they would only be considered so within the context of the textual landscape, I don’t see why spreading awareness through exploring the coding as a possibility for the character shouldn’t be done, even if the media is being presented by people who are ‘white’ or privileged or may not fall into the categories themselves, as long as it’s done respectfully to those it could explicitly represent.

#please don’t patronize me by asking to quit while i’m ahead #it doesn't help anyone #so anyway i've summarized my opinion on the coding thing here for the many anons whose answers could be answered in this ask alone #i think i covered everything? #the article started out okay but I found it kinda :/ in places even though there were valid concerns #I do believe that in-universe context and creators of the media should be taken into account #and that if marginalized themes can be touched on by non-marginalized groups then... great? fictional texts can help people understand #i do also think that rep being presented should if not on-screen have people working on the product to support and ensure it's done well #the world is cold and harsh and cruel and i just wanted a desi Loki AU but here we are #I've got to try and summarize how I think Thor 1 presents Loki's part of the narrative well with POC-coding there because of fantasy-racism #even if the POC-coding is ignored the themes of racism are far too apparent to ignore #loki spends the entire film being a multi-dimensional character and having an entire downfall fueled by grief and a desire to be loved #I don't think attaching a label to such a character would be a negative thing... but perhaps for casual watchers it'd be a bit :/ #apparently not everyone takes into account the 1000+ years of good behavior around that 1 year of betrayal/breakdown/identity crisis/torture #MetaAnalysisForTheWin #MAFTW #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #AgreeToDisagreeOrNot #ATDON #poc-coding #yes i ignored everything not about loki in the article what about it #hmmm I know people are going to disagree with me with what should and shouldn't be allowed #I know some people are okay with it but some don't like the poc-coding thing #and that's fine #completely understandable #makes me uncomfy to talk about fictional space racism in comparison to real life but I do think that lack of rep is why coding is important #for some people coding is all that they get #but also!! @ifihadmypickofwishes suggested the term racial allegory and I do believe that is also suitable here!! so I’ll try using that too #rather than poc-coding even though I still believe it applies