#he's more stubborn than thingol

[camille-lachenille]

I was thinking about how, in fanfictions and in the fandom in general, Elrond is often depicted as a pure Noldorin lord, if not a die hard Fëanorian. And while I do enjoy Fëanorian!Elrond, the more I think about it the more I am convinced Elrond is not the fëanorian one of the twins. Elros is. Elros who adopted seven eight pointed stars as the heraldic device of his whole dynasty, a symbol still used 6000 years after his death. Elros who had Quenya be the official language of Númenor. Elros who decided to leave Arda for an unknown fate after his death; not Everlasting Darkness but not the rebirth in the bliss of Valinor either. He choose to go to a place Elves aren’t supposed to go, just like Fëanor and his sons went back to Beleriand. Elros, the mortal man, who decided to forge his own path in the world.

And I am not saying Elrond didn’t, because Eru knows how much strength, patience and stubbornness Elrond must have to become who he is in LotR. But when I first re-read LotR after reading the Silm, he did not strike me as Fëanorian at all (except for the no oath swearing rule that seems to apply in Rvendell). In fact, Elrond, and all three of his children, are defined by being half-Elven. Elrond is so much at the same time they had to creat a whole new category for him. He is described as kind as summer in The Hobbit, but also old and wise, and his friendly banter with Bilbo in FotR show he is also merry and full of humour. Elrond is both Elf and Man despite his immortality, and this is made quite clear in the text.

But. If I had to link him to an Elven clan, I’d say Elrond is more Sinda than Noldor, and even that is up to debate. Rivendell, this enchanting valley hidden from evil thanks to his power, is like a kinder version of Doriath. Yet, the name of Last Homely House and Elrond’s boundless hospitality make me think of Sirion: Rivendell is a place where lost souls can find s home, where multiple cultures live along each other in friendship and peace.

In FotR, Elrond introduces himself as the son of Eärendil and Elwing, claiming both his lineages instead of giving only his father’s name as is tradition amongst the Elves. It may be a political move, or it may be a genuine wish to claim his duality, his otherness, or even both at the same time. But from what is shown of Elrond in LotR, he seems to lean heavily in the symbols and heritage from the Sindar side of his family, rather than the Noldor one. I already gave the comparison with Doriath, but it seems history repeats itself as Arwen, said to be Lúthien reborn, chooses a mortal life. Yet Elrond doesn’t make the same mistake as Thingol by locking his daughter in a tower and sending her suitor to a deathly quest. Yes, he asks Aragorn to first reclaim the throne of Gondor before marrying Arwen, but this isn’t a whim on his part or an impossible challenge. Aragorn becoming king means that Middle-Earth is free from the shadow if Sauron and Arwen will live in peace and happiness. Which sounds like a reasonable wish for a parent to me.

Anyways, I went on a tangent, what strikes me with Elrond is his multiple identity. Elrond certainly has habits or traits coming from his upbringing amongst the Fëanorians, and he loved Maglor despite everything. The fact he is a skilled Minstrel shows he did learn and cultivate skills taught by a Fëanorion, that he is not rejecting them. There is a passage at the end of RotK, in the Grey Havens chapter, where Elrond is described carrying a silver harp. Is this a last relic from Maglor? Possible.

But while Elros choose the path of mortality and showed clear Noldorin influences in the kingdom he built, Elrond is happy in his undefined zone he lives in. He is an Elf, he is a Man, he is Sinda and Noldo and heir to half a dozen lost cultures and two crowns. He is the warrior and the healer, the only one of his kind in Middle-Earth. And that is why I will never tire of this character and I love so much fanworks depicting him as nuanced and multiple yet always recognisable as Elrond.

#tolkien #the silmarillion #the lord of the rings #peredhil #half elves #elros #elrond and elros #elrond #elrond peredhel #one blorbo to blorb them all #half baked ramblings by a sleep deprived tolkien fan #tolkien meta

[istaricelebelasse]

Imagine an AU where Fëanaro is more stubborn.

He looks at the Helcaraxe and decides that if Morgoth can cross it then so can he, don’t be a wuss Nolvo.

He leads his people across the Ice, and Nolofinwine and Arafinwë follow. They loose some people, of course they do, but far fewer than they might without the ideas and inventions from the Curufinwes.

There is no kinslaying at Alqualonde. No Doom. No decree laid down by the Valar that causes Arafinwë to turn back.

No kinslaying means that Thingol does not bar his lands to them.

(For all that he wishes he did so when Feanor just Won’t Leave. He wonders how Finwë could have a son so stubborn and then realised that any child of Finwë could be nothing less.)

They are not Doomed but that does not mean that things are easy. They are going up against a Valar after all.

And yet things are ever so slightly lighter.

Until Thingol’s daughter decides she is going to steal a Silmaril from Morgoth, that is.

#silmarillion #au #Feanor #Thingol

[doodle-pops]

˚*ೃ༄When You Argue With Them˚*ೃ༄

Headcanons: Turgon, Aegnor, Rog, Thingol

Synopsis: In which you decide to sleep on the couch during the argument.

. ˚◞♡ *ೃ༄ Turgon — arguments with Turgon are never peaceful, more turbulent than ever and it sometimes takes more than a week before the two of you can come to terms. The heat is high when he braces you, towering mighty tall and fiercely with arms firmly planted at his side and face screwed with rage.

Your attempts at getting him to leave his silver-haired cousin alone whenever he made jabs at him were futile. Another dispute between the both of them led to Turgon attacking first and Celegorm following suit to defend. You could no longer take it, you’d been at it for hours, attempting to prove yourself right and for him to humble his pride.

All you wanted was for him to understand that he was wrong and Celegorm was simply egging him on for entertainment. He should understand his cousin’s intentions by now.

Deflating as you stood closer to the door of your room, you sighed and trudged over to your bed, prying your pillow and sheet off and marching out of the room.

“Where are you going?” he puzzled.

Shaking your head and marching down the staircase to enter the living room, you heard him trailing behind. “What are you doing Y/N?”

“Sleeping on the couch Turgon.” Your voice was empty, hiding your rage behind each syllable. “I have no energy to sleep in bed.”

His shoulders and face fell at the awareness of the meaning. Even when you argued in the past, it never escalated where you slept elsewhere; this was a first. Not liking the sensation of guilt settling in his chest, he stepped forward to cut off your actions. A hand reached out to take the pillow out of yours. “Please don’t…I’ll sleep outside if that’ll make you feel better.”

“Káno, you’re too long for the couch; you’ll feel uncomfortable,” you scolded.

“As will you…” he hesitated, playing around with the words in his mouth before spitting it out, “…I’m sorry. You’re right and I’m wrong. Just come to bed please.”

Staring at him contemplating, you sighed. It wasn’t often he openly apologised, so this was a first from your stubborn husband. “Fine…but we’re settling this properly in the morning.”

. ˚◞♡ *ೃ༄ Aegnor — he hates arguments with you because he gets lost in the moment and heated. He’s trying his best to state his point across and justify why he was right to confront his cousins, but you weren’t pleased with his reasons.

Aegnor didn’t want to keep arguing, but you weren’t agreeing, so he was relentlessly attempting to get you to see his point of view. In his eyes, the punishment that arise from his feud with Caranthir was simple one and he was right to start it. He could be so hard-headed at times, and it made you want to pull your hair out.

“Aegnor, you were wrong to engage in the argument, you should have walked away. You know you don’t have a wholesome relationship with them, but take the risk,” you fired and watched as he stopped his pacing to give you an incredulous look.

“How could you say that after they murdered our people? They deserve being incriminated; they’re just lucky that the King was compassionate to just ban our tongue.” You had marched over to stand at the bedhead, ripping the sheets off the mattress and rushing to get into bed and end your dispute.

Refusing to comply, you turned to the wardrobe and grabbed a pillow and quilt before stomping out of your chambers. It didn’t take long for Aegnor to rush after you, shouting your name. When he did catch up, you were spreading the quilt over the sofa in the lounge and placing your pillow at the head.

“…Y/N?”

“I’m sleeping outside Aegnor. We just don’t seem to be on the same page right now,” you quietly respond, not sparing him a glance. He was torn between feeling guilty and wanting you to settle your thoughts out and understand. Not sure what to exactly do, he walked over and aided you in settling down.

“What are you doing?”

“Helping you so you can get a good night’s rest if this is your decision.”

Gapping at how innocent he was to the experience of arguments, instead of swelling with rage, you snickered at him. “Aegnor, you’re supposed to say that you won’t allow me to sleep outside on the sofa, not help me.”

Breaking out of his focused state, wanting to still please you through your displeasure, he sheepishly laughed and scratched his head. “Oh, I didn’t know you wanted me to say that…I’m new to all this you know.”

Sighing at his innocence, you’d admit that despite the frustration you were experiencing currently, his helpless state was humorous and adorable. “You’re so clueless Aengor…”

. ˚◞♡ *ೃ༄ Rog — he hates arguments and never liked the idea of going to bed displeased. If he as to stay up all night to settle the dispute so you and he can have a good night's rest, Rog would. He wants you to know that even though you both have your options, he still loves you.

Rog would get lost in spending hours, even days in his forge, leaving you in solitude. Not being able to take it, it led to a one-sided argument between the both of you. Rog understood your frustration and his lack of care and attention towards his spouse, hence his reason for remaining silent and taking in your disputes.

Ranting to him about how he doesn’t come to bed anymore or make time to have breakfast, lunch and dinner with you or even take a walk, caused tears to flow from your eyes. He rushes over to meet your broken figure but was met with the force of your hands pushing him away and whispering to leave you be; you required time to relax now that you were a mess.

Rog watched with furrowed brows the entire time you shuffled out of your shared chambers to sleep on the sofa in your nightwear. His heart clenched at the barrier you were building after you demanded his time. Being a pleaser, he was not standing for your separation and waited for slumber to kick in before making his move.

Waking from your slumber, you turned to adjust yourself on the sofa and rolled into a firm chest with steel arms around your waist. Looking up, you noticed Rog was awake and staring off into space. “Dearest why am I in bed? I thought I was sleeping on the sofa?”

“I couldn’t allow you to. No matter how upset you were with me, I couldn’t bring myself to let you,” he whispered. He could see the anger behind those sweet eyes he fell in love with.

“Well…I’m still displeased.”

“I understand and I am sorry… But I’ll be out of the forges for the rest of the week. I would like to talk this out to not repeat it again.” His eyes held sorrow the longer he gazed at you.

“…You still could have allowed me to sleep on the sofa.”

“Not a chance; if anyone’s doing that, it should be me since it’s my fault.”

Softly smiling at his sincerity and nobility, you leaned forward and nuzzled into his chest, relishing in his warmth. “Why don’t we stay in bed a little longer and then decide who sleeps on the sofa?”

“Deal,” he laughed.

. ˚◞♡ *ೃ༄ Thingol — arguments with him also feel one-sided because, at certain times, he ignores your complaints, but you both engage in a level-headed match, it’s mostly him taking the lead with his anger. It wasn’t often the King was seen fuming.

Tired of having Thingol dictate your every decision, even after he made deals with you to give you free time, it always came back to bite you. You should know that as his lover, he wants to keep you safe from the harm and danger the world contains. If he doesn’t allow his people out of the borders, then you’re not departing either, even if you wanted to see the rest of the world.

“Thingol please, all I ask is to see the world. I can even take our Marchwarden with me!” you fumed. Still, your response wasn’t enough to convince the King. He was finding all sorts of ways to prove you wrong until he couldn’t.

“Beleg is needed in Doriath to train our troupes, I cannot simply allow him to run off with in into the wilderness meleth-nîn,” he reasoned, taking a step closer to you with his hands out.

Sighing at another attempt at denying your request, you hmphed and zig-zagged out of his grasp, making a beeline for the bed. The argument was going on since this morning and he had yet to let you have your way or provide a reasonable excuse. Not wanting to be in his presence for the rest of the night, you snatched your blanket and pillow off the bed and paraded out of the room.

Behind you the entire time, Thingol was following and asking you what you were doing while you continued to ignore him and look for a suitable place to nap. Passing all the spare rooms since they required a key, you wedged yourself through the library entrance and plopped onto the sofa beneath the eastern window. Frowning in disgust at the location of choice to rest your head, he tsked. 

“If you are going to be upset with me and sleep elsewhere, might as well sleep somewhere decent and lavish.” He gave you no time to respond, scooping you from the sofa along with blanket and pillow, and filed back through the corridor of empty chambers.

“Thingol put me down!”

“Your wish, my command, but at least let me find you a decent sofa…ah!” Returning to his chamber, he walked over and placed you on his bed-like sofa, ignoring your protests. “There, better!”

“You’re not supposed to…this isn’t what you…Thingol, you’re supposed to be displeased that I’m choosing to sleep on the sofa,” you huffed, crossing your arms and glaring at his overly large frame.

Puzzled, Thingol cocked his head to the side. “I thought you wanted me to agree with your decisions?”

“Yes, er…I meant with Doriath, not with the…never mind. You’re so confusing at times. We’ll discuss this some other time,” you sighed with an amused grin on your face, inspecting the curious one on Thingol’s face.

“As you wish meleth.”

Masterlist | Underrated Character Event Masterlist |

Taglist: @eunoiaastralwings @noldorinpainter @ranhanabi777  @lilmelily @someoneinthestars @mysticmoomin @aconstructofamind @the-phantom-of-arda @rain-on-my-umbrella @singleteapot @wandererindreams @asianbutnotjapanese @justellie17 @justjane @silverose365 @bunson-burner @wisheduponastar @stormchaser819 @ilu-stripes @floragardeniahope

#underratedcharacterevent #turgon x reader #aegnor x reader #rog x reader #thingol x reader #silmarillion x reader #silmarillion imagine #silmarillion headcanons #silmarillion fluff #middle earth x reader #middle earth imagine #middle earth headcanons #turgon headcanon #aegnor headcanon #rog headcanon #thingol headcanon #house of fingolfin #house of finarfin #lords of gondolin #doriath #x reader fluff #x reader insert #silmarillion #doodlepops writings ✨

[polutrope]

For the character ask game: Can I ask about Finrod and Turgon, both characters, but with all these numbers for both characters? 2, 3 7, 8, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 25. Or would it be too much?

Sure, let's try it!

2. Favorite canon thing about this character?

Finrod: It's gotta be tearing a werewolf apart with his bare hands and teeth.

Turgon: Morgoth being scared of him specifically.

3. Least favorite canon thing about this character?

Finrod: Answered here.

Turgon: Removing to a Hidden City and apparently not telling anyone who loved him. I prefer to imagine he did tell some people, including his father and brother.

7. What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you like?

Finrod: Answered here.

Turgon: I love to see the shift in Turgon's fandom reception recently. He's proud, he's stubborn, but he's also passionate, he loves fiercely, and he lets those he loves go (Aredhel, Idril to a mortal husband -- Thingol, take note).

8. What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you despise?

Finrod: Nothing comes to mind. Possibly making him too faultless? But that's me digging deep for a complaint.

Turgon: HAHAHA. How to begin. Flattening him to a humourless and heartless despot. Seems to be something that exists out of a desire for someone to fill that archetype rather than his canon character. That being said, if it's a good story, I can forgive many characterisation crimes.

15. What's your favorite ship for this character? (Doesn't matter if it's canon or not.)

Finrod: Recently, a toxic affair with Celegorm. But he's so versatile. Finrod/Maglor is also my go-to This Is Hot ship.

Turgon: Elenwë <3. Though I think he deserves to get shipped around a lot more. He's a sexy man.

16. What's your least favorite ship for this character?

Finrod: This is going to make a lot of my mutuals sad and I am sorry, but I'm just not that invested in Beor/Finrod. I read it still! And I admire and enjoy the wonderful stories people write about it, but I can't imagine being invested enough to want to write it. Things change, though.

Turgon: I feel like he doesn't get shipped enough for me to answer this. I'm happy to see him getting action with most people. Does he get shipped with Maeglin? That would be my answer if he does.

18. How about a relationship they have in canon with another character that you admire?

Finrod: Turgon!!

Turgon: Finrod!!

They are such sweet adventure cousins and city-builders and I hope they are happily reunited in Valinor and hanging out talking about philosophy on a lovely hike through nature.

19. How about a relationship they have in canon that you don't like?

Can't think of any.

20. Which other character is the ideal best friend for this character, the amount of screentime they share doesn't matter?

See Question 18. And they DO NOT share enough screen/page time and it's one of the Silm's many tragedies.

21. If you're a fic writer and have written for this character, what's your favorite thing to do when you're writing for this character? What's something you don't like?

Finrod: He's a delight to write. Insightful, curious, joyful, and thoughtful. Honestly can't think of anything I don't enjoy about writing him.

Turgon: He's so complicated!! Someone very smart who is always fighting demons -- demons of his grief, his pride, his responsibility. A challenge writing him is not slipping into the fanon characterisation I described above. It is convenient.

22. If you're a fic reader, what's something you like in fics when it comes to ths character? Something you don't like?

Finrod: Same things I like about writing him. @cuarthol made me love Finrod and remains my favourite Finrod writer.

Turgon: love reading about his fierce love. @swanmaids and @melestasflight come to mind as favourite Turgon writers and advocates.

23. Favorite picture of this character?

Impossible to pick just one.

Finrod:

I love @melkomelko's Finrod, both the serious and the silly.

This by @myceliumelium captures his heart:

This one by @anattmar

This Finrod and Maglor by @wombywoo is SO Finrod

And I adore the style and vibe of this Finrod by @cuarthol

And finally savage yet peaceful Finrod by hallbeorn

Turgon:

This by @elfinfen

This Turgon and Anaire by @irythyllians

This Turgon and Fingon by @arlenianchronicles

And this by @seasbird (Tumblr cut me off on embedded links...)

25. What was your first impression of this character? How about now?

Like many, I came into the fandom a Feanorian enthusiast through-and-through. I gotta dig waaaay back for my first-time impressions of the Silm, but my recollection is that Finrod and Turgon seemed epic but I wasn't personally invested in them. My old ff.net account appears to have nothing on them.

Thank you for the ask! Character ask game.

#finrod #turgon #asks #anon #character ask game

[sauroff]

🔥🤔?

🔥 Give us your hottest Silm hot take I have talked about this once here and it's something that's completely canon to me, but a lot of people seem to disagree: Aredhel wasn't magically forced to marry Eöl. He used magic to make her get lost, and then presented himself as her savior, but he didn't force her. She choose to marry him. Thingol's abduction is 10 times worst for me, the difference is how things went from there. 🤔 Tell us one of your favorite Silm headcanons. Can be one that's out in the wild or a personal one! Maglor is just Nerdanel with black hair. And I mean this in physical appearance. They both have softer, rounder features, more on the chubby side (although Maglor gets thinner in ME). Personality wise, they are different kinds of "softer than the others". Nerdanel has a VERY strong personality, and she can be very stubborn. But she just has less trauma better judgment than Feanor, and can think things through. Maglor looks and acts mildest, and he has a soft spot for some of his family. But he is more passive aggressively manipulative, and can snap from time to time (but will totally blame it on others).

#ask game #eol #aredhel #maglor #nerdanel

[shrikeseams]

Hey, tumblr friends who like Thingol more than me:

What good is left undone if he dies before the Noldor land in Beleriand?

Like, there’s a 50% chance the Sindar loose the Girdle. But if I’m being generous to Melian, I can see her sticking around until Luthien chooses mortality. And the major actor there is still Melian, not Thingol himself.

Morgoth keeps all three silmarils, but. I personally don’t feel like that’s a good action that I can give Thingol credit for, any more than I would give Maedhros credit for driving Elwing to Aman. So I guess I’ll give him half a deed for setting the quest? Again, he’s the impetus to someone else’s actions.

I feel like Turin finds a warmer welcome in his absence, if anything, just on cultural climate and Luthien presumably leading with Beren at her side. So I can’t give him points here.

Like. What am I overlooking? There are things I like about him! Honestly, he hits a lot of the same aspects I like about the feanorians en mass--he’s proud and vain and stubborn and petty, and he’s driven by the fear of loss (and actions taken out of that fear only accelerate his losses). But I feel like he’s played to such a passive fairy king archetype that I can’t quite pin my interest to him. Thinks happen because of him. But what does he do?

#tolkien #I want doriath to be important for something other than silmaril hot potato and helping the noldor move in #The noldor are so active! they can't fucking STOP themselves from doing things! #and the sindar most just... are there. for most of the first age. #what am I missing? #San shoots the breeze

[esculentevil]

(Thorinduil) “May I kiss you?”

Thorin doesn’t drink much because he’s a flirty/complimentary/sensual drunk; Thranduil finds this out the hard way (literally) when he shares his Dorwinion

Written using these prompts from @buzzin-rp-memes’s Kisses! Kisses! Kisses!

“May I kiss you?”

“I’ve been wanting to kiss you for a long time.”

“Who cares if someone sees us?”

“That was nice..”

Read on AO3 On Pillowfort OR...

☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ☆💎🌲☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ☆

“May I kiss you?”

Thranduil pauses as he lifts his chalice for the millionth time that chill evening. He’s sitting in his portable throne—something that he brought that he KNOWS makes him seem stuck-up and full of himself; but he couldn’t care LESS when it’s a reminder of home, a comfort, and (as, mercifully, Bard has come to see) the only seat in Dale capable of seating his inhumanly proportioned ass—beneath the naked eaves of a bald cypress tree, the knobbly knees of which wind about him like the loving arms of an old friend (which, to be fair, she IS; he’d actually planted her here with Girion, himself, as an elvish sign of alliance—it pleases him greatly to know that she has, somehow, managed to catch back during the passed few decades and, thus, made a point to sit with her and chat). There’s a single flower in full bloom resting upon his crown—a gift from her bald cypress facilitated by his elven earth magic—which is no longer the mithril circlet of war that he recently road around with as a near permanent fixture.

It is wonderful to be free of it again.

(He abhors war.)

Blinking slowly, Thranduil carefully lowers his chalice onto the proffered gnarled root that’s risen astride his movable throne like it is a perfectly normal table (which, to be fair, it is—for him and his people) and studies the dwarf before him. Thorin Oakenshield has survived the Battle of Five Armies with grievous wounds (most notably: the hole in his foot and the OTHER hole in his bloody CHEST) and his people's infamously stubborn dwarvish spirit: while he suffered delirium for several days during his recovery, he was deemed more than able to drink recently by a host of both dwarven and elven healers—not that he’d’ve listened, anyway, to Thranduil’s people if they’d recommended any more bedrest.

(Foolish creatures, dwarrows...)

“I beg your pardon, King Under the Mountain,” the Elvenking asks with measure, pale eyes widening to soften his studious stare. There does not seem anything... overly wrong with the boy-king: certainly, he is unbelievably drunk; but, really, what else would he be with Thranduil’s precious Dorwinion in his belly?

“I’ve been wanting to kiss you for a long time. May I?”

Thranduil’s eyes are no longer wide for an illusion’s sake: they are simply wide; awed and round and quite possibly shining with unbridledly rising emotions—most notably shock, alarm, and fear (because, surely, not even a dwarf—THORIN—would be so cruel?). He isn’t entirely sure he heard the other right; so, he quietly inquires, “H-have you?”

Thorin nods, drunk on wine and ale and mead and his own enthusiasm (probably), “Ev’r since I met you... enchanting... creature~”

He breaks off into giggles, there, eyes shining like Long Lake under the starlight. His voice, which had been holding up surprisingly well for how drunk he is, slows and slurs as he begins to unwind under her bald cypress’ bare branches and lean untensely upon her risen roots as neither tree nor elf has ever seen before—not of dwarrows, at least, and even less of Thorin Oakenshield.

Perhaps he should never allow him near Dorwinion again...?

“I... I thank you,” the Elvenking murmurs, face somewhat flushed with fluster: he’s never been the one people flock to for such things—never been the one others call such things—and certainly never with such honest REVERENCE. Rather, it’s always been Galadriel (whom, yes, for all that he hates the Noldor Witch, does truly deserve it because she is as beautiful as she is powerful—unlike him...) and Thingol (another far more deserving than him of such things for he ruled what is still considered the greatest kingdom in all of Ardhon kindly and lovingly with Melian, a Maia akin to Yavanna herself, powerfully beside him); people so far out of his reach that he had never dared to hope that he’d one day be counted among them—least of all by the favor of a DWARF.

Even less by Thorin Oakenshield.

“However, I do not think this is a good idea.” He glances nervously away, catching the concerned eyes of his general, Feren, and smiling shakily at him. He raises a gentling palm to stay him where he is, not wanting to cause a scene after all they’ve done to bring The North to peace, before looking back at Thorin.

The dwarf seems to have misunderstood his reason for looking Feren’s way: “Who caaares... if someone sees us???”

Suddenly realizing the boy-king is RIGHT—ANYONE could see them out here, in the open, where an elf should feel safe and secure but Thranduil DOESN’T—the King of the Woodland Realm blushes bruisingly and bows his head. Somewhere in the back of his mind, he wishes for more wine.

And less for Thorin.

“I care...” He fidgets after his quiet confession and silently wonders why that is: he is king and so is Thorin: they should be able to do what they want—ESPECIALLY if it would likely benefit their people; and wouldn’t this?

A union, of sorts, between their normally on-the-cusp-of-war realms?

But, no, it would not; chiefly because it would not be a real union: just a kiss. And, worse yet, it would be a kiss shared between a drunk dwarf and a sober elf.

There is no way that would go over well.

“I do not wish to make anyone angry,” Thranduil tries to explain, wondering why while he does it as—obviously—Thorin is drunk and probably less reasonable than he normally is (which, honestly, was never very much to begin with). Peripherally, he figures it is simply out of habit born of both logic and his father (“Remember, ion,” his beloved adar had once said [for he really only ever need say something once to his quick-learning son], “There will be times when you and others do not see eye-to-eye; and, during those times, it is best not to ire: either explain your reasoning in the hopes that they will change their minds or explain yourself to everyone else so that THEY will understand what you see and either choose to follow you, instead, or not, later on, begrudge you.”).

(His father always had the greatest advice.)

(He really misses him in these moments.)

(Always, he misses him.)

(But thus especially.)

“Then, kiss me,” Thorin urges, voice deep and husky and wanting—of him and his kiss and his SOMETHING hidden within it—and weirdly, hotly, DOING things it has no business doing to anyone let alone someone Thorin supposedly hates.

(No, not supposedly: he DOES hate Thranduil and that is just another reason whatever is happening shouldn’t be and the Elvenking must refuse him.)

(Even if he suddenly realizes he does not really WANT to...)

“I can not...” Thranduil shakes his head, voice soft but eyes, he knows, staring—imploring. He wonders what that would be like—FEEL like: Thorin’s pale lips APPEAR soft enough; but Thranduil has not kissed many but his wife and... other than them, Thorin’s lips seem rougher and more weathered by time or age; and his BEARD, O, it looks nothing like what he has felt before so...

No; no, he can not think like this.

He can NOT—!

~

Thranduil’s heart flutters where it lies in the center of his forest, buried under tree and leaf and frost a plenty, and surrounded by slumbering spring blossoms: Thorin’s lips really ARE soft.

And warm—wonderfully so. They taste like wine, honey (from their mead), meat, and the sweet flesh of a nut (oak, perhaps? like his namesake? Mirkwood’s white oak acorns ARE a favorite of his people when boiled or ground to flour). He was right about the wear and tear: there is no luxury, here, in this warrior turned boy-king; and it feels wonderfully rakish against his own silken lips.

And his BEARD!

O—it is incredible! Rough and burning and biting and raking, like hard grass or the thinnest of needle leaves, and yet still soft like moss and terrycloth and FUR.

Thranduil moans, entire body shivering with succulent sensations, and whimpers as Thorin takes advantage of his now gaping mouth and plunders the depth of it with a ferocity that only serves to further take the Elfking’s breath away.

His knees go weak and it occurs to him that he’d probably be falling onto them were it not for his portable throne and the protectively twining roots of her kind and supportive bald cypress. He whines and jolts as the dizzyingly thick tongue in his mouth flicks about his teeth and tastes his cheeks and caresses his palate.

And then there’s a hand on his throat: one that’s thick as the tongue and as hot; one that’s as strong and rough as a tree’s trunk but warm like the summer sun; one that’s more than capable of strangling him seabound but doesn’t even try to—instead, it caresses the length of his neck, callouses catching on soft skin, and pets him as one does something particularly loved; and, again, his knees weak and his voice weeps and his eyes wane as his whole being whines and wants.

And then it’s over. Thorin’s pulling back with a drunken dreamy smile on his face, the weathered palm of his hand cupping and curving about Thranduil’s dry throat like an old and worn-out leather collar that’s startling and frightening and comforting all at once—like it’s always been there and yet never was.

And must/should/HAS to now STAY and never leave him.

“That was nice...” The Dwarfking’s voice is as dazed as his face, eyes warm and soft like sunbaked sand and sea and, for a moment, his elven counter wonders about that—about how calm and comforting and CLEAR he it all is—and if, perhaps, this is what prompts so many other elves before him to GO: to SAIL.

And if, perhaps, this is why HE has never felt it—heard that soothing song.

Why would he if his home sounds so much better? If THORIN feels better.

Thranduil feels his face flush straight through to the tips of his gently curled ears and looks anywhere but the beautiful smiling dwarf before him; “O-oh?”

“Yea,” Thorin nods, hair bouncing gaily with his enthused nod. Feren’s nerves and fears are so strong Thranduil can feel them just as well as the air heated between himself and his the dwarf; and he forces himself to lift his staying palm again to prevent his general from slaying his counterpart where he stands.

Sadly, Bard is the only thing capable of staying Dain, right now, and, while sober, he’s only thus enough to haphazardly grab the Ironhills’ dwarf by the shoulder, not enough to shut him up: “Fuck ye dain!?!?!?”

“Kissin’ my gorgeous elf!” Thranduil bruises under the intensity of his own blush, entire body constricting as everyone gapes at both Thorin’s brazen words and the utterly blinding (however drunken) grin plastered across his ruddy face.

The Dorwinion must have really gotten to him.

Is still getting to him: “We should do it again!”

~

“Uuugh...” Thorin groans and it sounds like he’s about to throw up (yet again...), “I am NEVER drinking Dorwinion again...”

“Good,” Thranduil quietly clips, deft fingers cleaning the beginnings of sweat from the dwarf’s brow. “Because I am never sharing so much as a drop with you, again. Honestly...” Silvery eyes focus on their task to the point of obsessiveness, ensuring that they do not stray towards the slightly parted and panting lips boasted by the rosy-cheeked ruffian under his care or his dark lake eyes.

He can feel them staring, though; inquiring.

“... Do you...” The Elvenking shifts, face flushing again as flashes of last night attack him with a heat far more pleasant but just as frightening as dragon fire, “Remember... anything that you did...?” He rings out his cotton handkerchief but does not use it, letting it rest and cool his person through his beating fingers.

Thorin is silent for a long moment; then he hums quietly, “... I kissed you.”

“You did.” Thranduil breathes deeply so he doesn’t bite his lip, worry it and thus show how badly aforementioned action affected him.

“Did you hate it?”

Thorin’s own question, what his eyes had been inquiring this whole time, catches his elven counter off guard. Thranduil turns, finally, to stare back at him, face flushing again with some mix of passion, shame, and DESIRE. “... No...”

“Would you oppose me doing it again?”

“I will not give you more wine.” He’s firm, the statement of all statements, and looks away to hide his hurt. The reminder that Thorin was nothing but a drunk last night and thus probably would have kissed anyone—including Galadriel, probably, like anyone else would prefer after meeting her; or Elrond, even—leaves a sourness in his stomach and a burn in his eyes that feels like dragon.

There is only ever death and dragon in his life—“I meant the kiss, idiot.”

Thranduil stares at him. He didn’t even realize he’d moved his head.

“Would you oppose me kissing you, again?”

Thranduil stares and stares and stares.

~

Finally, he swallows: “... No...”

Thorin grins, eyes wide and bright like a child and the midnight sky in spring.

He sits up and gently grasps the slightly wobbly chin of the ancient Elvenking.

Then, he kisses him like he really meant to—like he’s really always wanted to—and smiles into it—into the lips of his One—because this isn’t JUST a kiss—more than just a press of lips—but a PROMISE: “Good; for there will be more—MUCH more.”

(And so there was: many, MANY, years of much, MUCH more kisses; and love.)

#thranduil #thorin #thorinduil #thorin/thranduil #thorin x thranduil #the hobbit #mywriting #fanfiction #fanfic #prompt fill #kiss #angst #romance #selfish #trigger warnings #alcohol #dorwinion wine

[anna-dreamer]

Some things they cut from Finrod

Wanted to discuss some songs in Finrod the Rock Opera that are absent in the current version. Here i will mention Feanorians Fighting and Thingol&Feanorians. And i grabbed a chance to talk about Thingol’s role a bit! 

I will try to explore what exactly the opera lost when those two songs disappeared from it. 

Now, important note. I will be talking about some downfalls of these songs which i do not miss in the current version. Some are relatively objective (Finrod is not perfect after all), some are only a matter of personal taste. If we disagree on some of them it’s perfectly fine! And i swear, I do love Finrod very much. I just also love dissecting it. 

I will review both Feanorians Fighting and Thingol&Feanorians since they go back to back and were both cut in the current version. 

So. What, among other things, was cut from the opera along with Feanorians Fighting? 

С&C interacting with each other and having a conflict! The first show last weekend (23rd October) once again made me realize that in current state С&C tend to turn into this one-minded entity full of spite, stubbornness, and evil-just-because with not a lot of thought behind it. They surely lack a shared number where they would live and breathe on stage a bit more. 

С&C's motivation being more complex than just cease Nargothrond. You guys swore an Oath, remember? Here they at least address the possibility that Finrod and Beren are going to get a silmaril. Their motivation consists not only of power hunger, but also of the Oath driving them. And later there is Luthien, a girl they really want! And there lies a conflict. Then Thingol gives them a choice that ultimately makes them abandon the silmarils and focus on their power and lust. And they know it. And they see what will happen to them in the end for it - Падение. 

Some sweet sweet words. Some of them are as fanon-y and as shitpost-y as they get! And i personally love it. Что стоишь, как пень? Корону подними!, Не копти, как факел!, Это, брат, идея хоть куда! and Это, брат мой, обидно! Overall there is some good writing there (the awkward parts i will address later, there is no Finrod without awkward parts!).

The three-part Oath presence is the opera. Not only C&C reprise their Oath here like good musical characters, they also lay ground for their final Oath-related number, Ненависть. From Древняя клятва ведёт за собою наш род - to Клятву скрепить о cильмарилах мы призывали Древние Силы! - to Клятва дана, и над нами нависла тень её - it used to be a solid structure, a gradual flow of emotion. Now... i can’t say it’s falling apart cause it’s not, but it is clearly not that powerful anymore.  

What else got cut that i personally don’t miss. 

С&C’s seeming obliviousness towards the Oath. Frankly i don’t appreciate the wording Ты забыл в пылу спора / Нашу клятву Феанора. It feels like the Oath is being treated too lightly here by the narrative. It’s not that kind of oath you can just forget for a while, not when there is an expedition, be it a hopeless one, that intends to do just what you have sworn to do. You can resent it, be conflicted about it, but forget? I don’t think so. Remember Darkness Everlasting? 

Finrod’s on brand awkward phrases. That same Нашу клятву Феанора, oh boy. Let it at least be Феанору. Because that possessive pronoun along with Feanor’s name in genitive both possessively relating to клятва just ruin a stylistically smooth stanza, it’s such a bummer! Then, Он на пути нашей клятвы не может стоять! It’s honestly not that offensive, but i strongly suspect here a calque from English He can’t do that, meaning We cannot permit that. At face value, without this calque in mind, there is a possible double reading that implies that Beren is literally incapable of impeding Feanorians, and in this case it’s undesirable. 

What, among other things, was cut from the opera along with Thingol&Feanorians?

Thingol’s continuing role of opera’s comic relief. With Melian’s aria shifted towards the beginning, Thingol’s character loses some of its comedic potential. Я его послал! is cut, for instance (that one i don’t miss though). And with Thingol&Feanorians we also lose many funny moments. Что за шум, а потасовки нет? is a slightly processed Что за шум, а драки нету?, a Russian proverb perfectly describing anyone’s perspective when they walk on Feanorians nearly ripping each other apart. Экий драматический момент! is another thing. Comedic effect is reached here by mashing up different styles together. Экий is a vernacular, драматический момент is a bookish phrase with a pseudo-intellectual flavor to it in this context. Another thing - in 2008 version Thingol’s actor chose to sing Экий драматический момент, not reducing О and with a hint of Э in момент. This is a stylistic choice depicting (along with things mentioned above) Thingol as this want-to-be smart but ultimately not really cultured person, a pretender with recourses but without any proper education (commedia dell'arte vibe). Then there are -ение words, those are more Officialese-sounding, Я ж имею предложенье, чтобы завершенье получил сюжет. And, of course, Thingol is being self-aware here and he is breaking the fourth wall. That’s not all that he does but i think it’s the most important stuff. 

Opera’s take on Feanorians in Nargothrond. As i said, it cuts a great deal of plot and character development. The idea behind that development is another question, and i will address it. 

Melian’s reaction to Thingol’s extended fuckery. 

What else got cut that i personally don’t miss.

Opera’s take on Feanorians in Nargothrond! Which, at least to my mind, is implausible and hands down ridiculous! Thingol giving Luthien away to a Feanorian? Them ruling both Doriath and Nargothrond? Yeah, ok. If we needed to complete the plot, surely there were other ways to do so. @quixoticanarchy​ has a really cool take on this mess though! 

Thingol’s major role of comic relief. This is especially a matter of personal taste. As for me, Thingol’s role as comic relief feeds into Finrod’s tonal problem that is not small. The most jarring thing for me was always Я его послал! and sheer lack of gravity around this decision. He just dropped Doom on his whole family! Honestly, narrative, no time for Pantalone! Then, those same comedy bits that look well on paper just don’t land for me in this narrative. They seem anachronistic, shallow, out of place, much like Sauron being Koschei. It’s like the opera is trying to figure itself out, should it be a crack fanfic or a serious adaptation? I personally think it struggles to do both at once.

Finrod’s on brand awkward phrases. Если вы ко мне вернёте дочь - it’s a hands down mistake. No preposition should be here, it should be Если вы мне вернёте дочь. Кто ее от Берена оттащит прочь is grammatically correct, but stylistically painful. Clearly just used for rhythm sake. At least it stresses Thingol’s treatment of Luthien. And my favorite, Что, ужели есть вакансия? This is a crude lexical misusage. Вакансия, much like a vacancy in English, is an unoccupied position or job. It’s not what Celegorm is trying to ask about. Whether he is referring to one who will rule in Nargothrond (more likely) or one who will marry Luthien - he is asking, have you found the right person yet? He wouldn't ask whether there is an open spot, because he knows there it. Luthien is unmarried, and Nargothrond’s throne is abandoned. The word Celegorm is looking for is кандидатура. Another Officialese word in consistency with the whole song tone. It should be there, not вакансия. It’s such a jarring mistake honestly i’m just sad about it. 

Ok so here we are! I won’t draw any conclusions whether it’s better or worse without these two songs. In my mind there are a lot of strong point for their removal, but upon that there is some void left that i wish was filled.

Thank you for reading! If you’re interested in my nerdy editorial rants, here is my dissection of Amarie. 

#Finrod #Finrod the Rock Opera #finrod rock opera #Thingol #Luthien #Beren #Celegorm #Curufin #anna dissects rock operas

[outofangband]

I really like your coh posts. can I get Túrin with ■☠✿ ൠ for the headcanon asks?

Thank you!!

From this headcanon ask game here

Bedroom/living quarters headcanon

Túrin’s room in Doriath was larger than his childhood bedroom. There was a set of ornately carved shelves that resembled the branches of a great tree on one wall. When he first arrived he had almost nothing to put on them save one of Sador’s carved figures he kept with him and part of his mother’s letter to Thingol he was ordered to hold with him and destroy if him and his companions were stopped on their journey. Túrin never gives this part over and keeps it so he has something with Morwen’s handwriting. He takes both the letter and the carved figure from the shelf though and puts them under the spare pillow after the first night

Angry or violent headcanon:

Túrin is genuinely horrified at Saeros’s death and also more than a little bitter knowing Saeros would return to life and his lost loved ones would not

On a lighter note, I know Túrin’s anger at any insult to his family is in large part because he’s separated from them and the trauma they’ve been through but I think it would be funny if he was just always like this. Like a kid he was playing with at the age of six said his mom was kind of weird and he just kicks them really hard in the shins. I think Húrin and Morwen’s combined stubbornness and sense of fairness plus Morwen’s pride and Húrin’s recklessness is a volatile combination in little Túrin ❤️

Random headcanon

Túrin is exactly in the middle of his family in terms of basic arithmetic skills. Morwen is very quick and precise with calculations, Húrin is prone to wild guessing and so just has to count one by one. Túrin and Niënor both are very inconsistent with their skills and are prone to distraction and having to start over.

sex headcanon under the cut. it’s not dark or anything, I’m just embarrassed 

Sex headcanon: I headcanon Túrin as acespec with ambiguous feelings about sex. By the time he’s maybe 26 he’s watched others at it with some curious interest and maybe taken part to some extent in casual settings but he’s never had that kind of physical intimacy with someone one on one . He doesn’t see anything wrong with it, it just feels very disconnected to other kinds of intimacy to him

#the silmarillion #the children of húrin #Túrin

[sauronnaise]

Manwë: Beleriand has sunk, come to Aman.

Thranduil: No.

Círdan: The last ship is sailing We-

Thranduil: NO.

#thranduil loves his woods very much #tolkien #the lord of the rings #the hobbit #silmarillion #incorrect tolkien quotes #incorrect lotr quotes #incorrect hobbit quotes #incorrect silmarillion quotes #círdan #manwë #valinor #aman #middle earth #arda #greenwood #mirkwood #thrandy is staying no matter what #i'm sure he has avarin ancestry somewhere #he's more stubborn than thingol

[tilions]

House of Elmo Headcanons

Part 2/3 featuring Galadhon, his wife and children, Galadriel and Galathil's spouse are also mentioned. Part 3 will be featuring Nimloth and Celebrían. Part 1 is here

Galadhon

the foster child of Elmo, his real parentage remains unknown

steadfast, loyal and brave, sometimes a little reckless

close friends with Beleg and Mablung

he doesn't have as close of an relationship with his uncle and cousins as his father would wish

very athletic

probably Beleriand's best swordsman until the Noldor showed up

after he is officially an adult he lives with Cirdans people for an extended period of time

that's also when he met his wife and gets married to her

Celeborn is born during the time he lives there with his family but they return to Doriath when they're expecting Galathil so that Elmo can see his grandchildren grow up

not very fond of the Noldor situation

alongside his wife one of the leading voices in Thingol's court that demand the Noldor to leave Beleriand

very much against Celeborn's and Galadriel's courtship but after his father gives his blessings he stops complaining about it

also pretty much not a fan of Beren despite not being very close to Lúthien

raises Nimloth after her parents deaths

despite his more negative feelings towards Beren he very supportive of Nimloth's and Dior's courtship

very fond of their children

the twins are his favourites because they wanted to learn how to fight with a sword from him as soon as they could walk

ultimately dies protecting them in the Second Kinslaying

The last thing he sees before he dies is the boys being carried off by Celegorn's servants

Lothedhel

closely related to Cirdan (probably a niece or something)

eldest of her parents five children, also the only daughter

has an eye for pretty things like pearls flowers and jewelry

stubborn as a dwarf

doesn't want a big family, one or two children are enough (preferably one son and one daughter)

very supportive of Galathil when she declared that she feels more like a woman than a man, helps her with the transition

grieves for several decades after Galathil's death, us not able to look at Nimloth without starting to cry

not a fan of the Noldor, it doesn't matter if they are Arafinweans, Feanorians or Nolofinweans for her they are all kinslayers

really wished Celeborn would stay away from Galadriel but knows that her son is just as stubborn as her

after she tells her son how she feels about his affectiob for the Noldorin woman, they have a bit of a fall out and avoid eachother from that point on

she still attends the wedding but doesn't give her blessings or good wishes (she's just there because Elmo was very insistent)

She reconciles with her son in the aftermath of the second kinslaying while lothedhel is on her deathbed

her dying wish is for him to be happy and to be less hostile towards what is new than she was

remains in Mandos with her husband for much longer than they needed to

Celeborn

Galadhon's and Lothedhel's older child, born a few centuries before the Noldor arrived in Beleriand

constantly tries to impress and mimic his father but doesn't really succeed because he doesn't match him him in either temper nor fighting skills

very much grandfather Elmo's favourite, it's not even a secret

loves to study, language, culture and music - later in life he looks up to Dearon a lot but doesn't try to impress him

a nature child

he can always be found in some sort of tree, singing with the birds or just enjoying the sun/starlight

doesn't really like to rush with things, if they take time they take him

he is not the best older brother because he often doesn't really get what Galathil wants from him but he stil tries to be supportive of her

he is with her when she and her spouse die and takes baby Nimloth back to Doriath

he is not immediately in love with Galadriel, realising this takes him a long long time but he is interested in her and her past

he flirts without even knowing he does and she finds it very charming

their courtship and marriage is very happy and he finds a lot of joy in trying to get Galadriel to step out of her comfort zone a bit

he takes her hiking, climbing and exploring the caves and all this, while he talks about their history and about certain events that happened here and there

their wedding is a bit overshadowed by the tension between him and his mother

neither of them like the aspect of sexual intimacy and they only ever sleep with each other once they try for Celebrían

speaking of Celebrían, she is is pride and joy and he is that kind of dad who does everything for his daughter

Galadriel is the responsible parent, he cannot resist his daughter and sometimes even ends in timeout with her

in total dispair after Celebrían has to sail, loses a lot of happiness and becomes more reserved

sails alongside Cirdan and his grandsons

Galathil

the younger child

throughout her entire childhood she struggled with the idea of being a boy despite being born in a male body

figured out that she preferred to be a woman when she met her future spuse who preferred no gender

it was an eye opener for Galathil

is very grateful for her mother's support

a very good cook, has a special talent for baking and making deserts

likes to dress in bold colours like yellows and greens and decorates her hair with flowers

not as good with animals as her brother

Nimdil and her elope in secret and the only person who knows about this beforehand is Elmo

they decide to have one child despite both of them feeling rather uncomfortable thinking about the process of getting there

during their pregnancy Nimdil is a lot less cheerful and happy but Galathil does her best to cheer them up

when Nimloth is born, healthy and laughing, both of them agree that this one child was worth the trouble but that they wouldn't have any other children

they're good parents to her and teach nimloth that things don't always have to be like how they look at first (which helps Nimloth a lot later in life especially when she meets Dior)

Galathil likes singing and dancing and often danced together with Lúthien on festivals

gets along well with the children of Finarfin but has otherwise no opinion on the Noldor as a whole

tries to stay out of politics as much as possible

Galathil and her spouse died during the journey home from a visit to her mother's parents

the last thing she remembers is her beloved's hand in hers and him them telling her that they love her

she is the first one to be reborn and she spends a lot of time with Elwing and Eärendil, being a good and supportive great-grandmother to them both

#galadhon #oc lothedhel #celeborn #galadriel #celebrian #galathil #oc nimdil #nimloth #my shitty headcanons #house of elmo #my edits #my headcanons #tolkien #silmarillion #sindar #doriath

[nikosheba]

The Mystery of the Vanishing Elf

First of all, this is not my meta; I’m posting this on behalf of Azh, who wrote it and wanted it on tumblr. (They did say I could take credit for bothering them to write it, and for helping kick around ideas, so I will :D)

Link to the meta on AO3

[all page numbers from the 2007 HarperCollins edition of The Children of Húrin, ISBN 978 0 00 724622 9]

Thanks to starlightwalking for beta-ing!

So I just finished reading the Children of Húrin—which, let’s be honest, I was mostly reading to get the expanded version of the Túrin and Beleg content.  So at first when I started reading the second half — after Beleg’s death — I figured the reason I was less drawn to the text was because, well, Beleg was dead and therefore was less present in the narrative.  After I’d finished the book and put it down, though, I realized it was a little more than that.  Beleg wasn’t just less present. He was completely absent. This is no exaggeration: between the last mention of Beleg’s name in Chapter IX (“The Death of Beleg”) and Túrin’s death, when Gurthang asks to forget the “blood of Beleg my master” there is a single mention of his name, and it’s only a passing description of Gurthang itself as “the Black Sword of Beleg” (pg. 237).

Túrin never says his name again.

What’s going on here?  This is, quite frankly, bizarre. The entire first half of the narrative pivots around the relationship between Túrin and Beleg.  Beleg is the one who finds Túrin when he’s just a child his mother is sending to Thingol in Doriath. Beleg is his friend when’s growing up on Doriath — one of two really mentioned, the other being Nellas — and when Túrin is grown and goes off to be with the marchwardens, “Beleg and Túrin were companions in every peril” (pg 86).  When Thingol and Mablung and everyone else are ready to assume the worst of Túrin, it’s Beleg who shows up with Nellas to tell them what really happened, and it’s notable that this means Beleg didn’t see what happened; he just implicitly trusted Túrin and was the only one to do so.  They care about each other a lot. There is a brief portion of time while Túrin is with the outlaws that they aren’t together (that’s a whole nother post in itself) but Beleg returns to Túrin on Amon Rudh, “in this way, Beleg came back to Túrin, yielding to his love against his wisdom.  Túrin was glad indeed, for he had often regretted his stubbornness; and now the desire of his heart was granted…it seemed to [the outlaws] there had been a tryst between Beleg and their caption.” (pg 139).  These boys are in love. It’s textual.  There’s only one other character Túrin is described as loving in a similar way, and it’s Níniel (Niënor), whom he marries.

In fact, it’s staggering that Níniel is the only other one (pg 218 “Turambar restrained himself no longer, but asked her in marriage”), because there is a very big elephant in the room, and it’s the person whom Níniel is occasionally compared to, Finduilas.  Finduilas is mentioned three times in the text after her death, including twice by Túrin himself in direct quotations:

- “Then Turambar who led the men started back and covered his eyes, and trembled; for it seemed that he saw the wraith of a slain maiden that lay on the grave of Finduilas.” (pg. 214, when Túrin first finds Níniel)

- "But even as he spoke, he wondered, and mused in his mind: 'Or can it be that one so evil and fell shuns the Crossings, even as the Orcs? Haudh-en-Elleth! Does Finduilas lie still between me and my doom?’” (pg. 229, when Túrin is preparing to fight Glaurung for the last time),

- “Therefore he arose and went to the Crossings of Teiglin, and as he passed by Haudh-en-Elleth he cried: 'Bitterly have I paid, O Finduilas! that ever I gave heed to the Dragon. Send me now counsel!’” (pg. 253, after he’s killed Brandir and is desperately trying to deny that Níniel was Niënor, his sister)

This is huge. And it’s huge, because Túrin is not in love with Finduilas. This, again, is explicit, and textual, "In truth Finduilas was torn in mind. For she honoured Gwindor and pitied him, and wished not to add one tear to his suffering; but against her will her love for Turin grew day by day, and she thought of Beren and Luthien. But Turin was not like Beren! He did not scorn her, and was glad in her company; yet she knew that he had no love of the kind she wished. His mind and heart were elsewhere, by rivers in springs long past.” (pg 166, ”Túrin in Nargothrond”). So.  Túrin never falls in love with Finduilas, and, in fact, the reason he doesn’t fall in love with her is that his “mind and heart are elsewhere”.  Hmmmm. I wonder where his heart is?

Okay, so then why is it that Túrin repeatedly refers to Finduilas but not to Beleg?  It’s really obvious based on the quotes I’ve given so far that he was in love with Beleg (and for god’s sake, the man doesn’t talk for a YEAR after Beleg’s death), that he was not in love with Finduilas, and that he was (or thought he was, at least) in love with Níniel, enough to ask her to marry him.  So where the hell is Beleg in his thoughts for all this time when he’s falling for Níniel and thinking back to Finduilas?

For the answer to this, we need to consider the dual nature of Níniel’s relationship to Túrin, and what its source is.

Yes, Túrin loves Níniel, as his wife, but we know he also loved his sister Niënor, as a sister, and part of the reason he kills himself is that he can’t handle that he’s driven his sister to her death via incest (albeit accidental incest).  It’s notable that Túrin loves Finduilas as a sister,

“Then Turin spoke freely to [Finduilas] concerning these things, though he did not name the land of his birth, nor any of his kindred; and on a time he said to her: 'I had a sister, Lalaith, or so I named her; and of her you put me in mind. But Lalaith was a child, a yellow flower in the green grass of spring; and had she lived she would now, maybe, have become dimmed with grief. But you are queenly, and as a golden tree; I would I had a sister so fair.’” (pg. 164, “Túrin in Nargothrond”.)

So these references to Finduilas make a narrative kind of sense — in addition to it mostly happening as Túrin is passing her grave, it’s a textual reminder of a hidden truth: Níniel is not just Túrin’s lover, but also his sister.  He even finds her upon the grave of someone he loved as a sister.  But there’s another truth hidden in the text as well, and it’s related to Níniel’s nature as Túrin’s lover.  Because let’s be real, if he found her on the grave of someone he loved very firmly in a non-romantic way, why does he become romantically interested in her?  She’s his sister—obviously he doesn’t know that, but the narrative is saying it very, very clearly.  Well…there’s a confounding factor.

Here’s how Túrin finds Níniel (pg. 214): “Now it chanced that some of the woodmen of Brethil came by in that hour from a foray against Orcs, hastening over the Crossings of Teiglin to a shelter that was near; and there came a great flash of lightning, so that the Haudh-en-Elleth was lit as with a white flame.”

And here is how Túrin discovers that he has killed Beleg (pg. 155): “But as he stood, finding himself free, and ready to sell his life dearly against imagined foes, there came a great flash of lightning above them, and in its light he looked down on Beleg's face.”

The narrative does draw a parallel between Níniel and Beleg, an extremely strong (if subtle) one.  It uses literally the same phrase to set up the scene: “there came a great flash of lightning”.  So there’s a pretty clear answer as to why Túrin might associate Níniel with romantic love—he doesn’t just find her on his as-it-were sister’s grave, he finds her in a way that hearkens strongly back to the last time he ever saw his lover’s face.

So why doesn’t he think of Beleg now?

Why is the thought of his lover—whose loss cut him so deeply he didn’t speak for a year—so far out of his mind at this moment that his name isn’t even mentioned, even when narratively there’s no way he shouldn’t think of him?

Okay, I’ve drawn this out enough, so let’s cut to the chase: Glaurung. Glaurung, who is responsible for the first hidden truth that I mentioned, the more textually explicit one, that Níniel is Niënor, Túrin’s sister.  He bespells Niënor upon Amon Ethir, “Then he drew her eyes into his, and her will swooned. And it seemed to her that the sun sickened and all became dim about her; and slowly a great darkness drew down on her and in that darkness there was emptiness; she knew nothing, and heard nothing, and remembered nothing,” (pg 209, “The Journey of Morwen and Niënor”) causing her to lose her memories and with her memories her name and therefore any way for Túrin to know who she is.  Glaurung earlier bespells Túrin as well, “Without fear Turin looked in those eyes as he raised up his sword; and straightway he fell under the dreadful spell of the dragon, and was as one turned to stone.” (pg. 178, “the Fall of Nargothrond”)  The first, obvious result of Glaurung’s spell (and the only explicit one) is that he leaves Finduilas and rushes off to try and find Morwen and Niënor.  Now, we’re meant to believe that this is all that the spell does, since in “The Return of Túrin to Dor-Lómin”, pg. 166, the text notes, “And suddenly a black wrath shook him; for his eyes were opened, and the spell of Glaurung loosed its last threads, and he knew the lies with which he had been cheated.”

But I don’t think this makes sense.  I think Tolkien is being poetical here and the “last threads” he’s talking about are specifically the lies about Finduilas.  A number of Túrin’s conversations with Níniel point towards the fact that he’s forgotten something really important and that in that regard the dragon’s spell is still intact.  For example, when Túrin tells Níniel what to call him (pgs 217-218, “Niënor in Brethil”):

“Then she paused as if listening for some echo; but she said: 'And what does that say, or is it just the name for you alone?'

“’It means,' said he, 'Master of the Dark Shadow. For I also, Niniel, had my darkness, in which dear things were lost; but now I have overcome it, I deem.’”

“My darkness” is eerily similar to the repeated motif of Níniel’s darkness, which explicitly refers to the spell cast on her by Glaurung.  

“Behind her lay only an empty darkness” (pg 213, “Niënor in Brethil”); “it seem to her that the darkness that lay behind her was overtaking her again” (pg 214, “Niënor in Brethil”); “it seemed to her that she had found at last something that she had sought in the darkness” (pg. 215, “Niënor in Brethil”); and the two most relevant quotations, “And at that name she looked up, and she shook her head, but said: 'Níniel.' And that was the first word that she spoke after her darkness, and it was her name among the woodmen ever after” (pg 216, ”Niënor in Brethil”); and “when at length she had learned enough to speak with her friends she would say: 'What is the name of this thing? For in my darkness I lost it.’” (pg. 217, “Niënor in Brethil”)

So here it is: Túrin has lost “dear things” in “his darkness” (Glaurung’s spell) and he thinks that Níniel is what he has lost, but she isn’t—or she isn’t the only thing that’s missing. Glaurung has ripped out of Túrin’s mind the memory of the only person he’s ever had romantic feelings for—Beleg—and because he’s confused and trying to find something to fill that gap, Níniel gets cast in a dual role—not just sister (with her ties to Finduilas) but also lover (with her subtler ties to poor, missing Beleg).  

This theory also has significant implications for Túrin’s death, since that’s the only time that Beleg is mentioned again, apart from a tangential sidenote.  When Mablung finally confirms to Túrin what he’s already beginning to fear is the truth, that Níniel was his sister Niënor, he runs up to the Cabed-en-Aras, from which Níniel has thrown herself, and he asks his sword to kill him. His sword is Gurthang, which was Anglachel, made by Eöl, the sword that Thingol gave to Beleg and that Túrin used to accidentally kill him, and the response is somewhat unexpected, since up till now we haven’t had any indication that it’s a talking sword,

“‘And from the blade rang a cold voice in answer: 'Yes, I will drink your blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master…I will slay you swiftly.’” (pg. 256, “The Death of Túrin”)

Interestingly, this is after the sword has been reforged, and there’s no particular reason it should refer to Beleg as its master — after all, Túrin has been wielding it for years, and it was made by someone else entirely.  So then, why?  And why does it ask to forget his blood in particular?

Because Túrin has remembered, finally.  Whether the sword is picking up on the mood, whether it’s a narrative device, or whether it isn’t even really talking and it’s just Túrin’s mind playing tricks on him in his last extremis, I don’t know—though I favor the latter interpretation, particularly because Túrin himself is referred to as “the Black Sword” on numerous occasions.  But the important point here is Túrin has remembered, because Glaurung is dead, and his memory spells die with him, “Then Nienor sat as one stunned, but Glaurung died; and with his death the veil of his malice fell from her, and all her memory grew clearer before her, from day unto day, neither did she forget any of those things that had befallen her since she lay on Haudh-en-Elleth.” (pg. 243, “The Death of Glaurung”)

So Túrin knows by now exactly what he’s done—not only inadvertently marrying his sister but betraying the one great romantic love of his life.  The one he has probably just remembered accidentally killing in great detail.  It’s probably quite present in his mind when, rather than throw himself over the waterfall as Níniel did, he flings himself onto the very same sword that killed the only person he was ever in love with, whose name he has finally, finally been able to bring to mind…

In sum, Glaurung erases Beleg’s memory so thoroughly from Túrin’s mind that only tiny, hidden glimpses remain, even in the text.  This is the solution to the mystery of the vanishing Elf; it explains why Beleg vanishes right up until the very end, and it ties together the sense I had when I was reading the second half of something missing, something hidden, something incomplete.  It is, I imagine, the same way Túrin must have felt after he awoke—as he thought, completely—from the spell that Glaurung laid upon him the first time they fought.

[A/N: I also wrote a fic based on this premise: https://archiveofourown.org/works/28980519 ]

#Túrin #Beleg #Silmarillion #the silmarillion #Turin Turambar #Beleg Cúthalion #Beleg Strongbow #meta #not my writing

[warrioreowynofrohan]

Noldorin Rulers - A Public Policy Analysis

Fëanor

A civil servant’s nightmare; the kind of person that makes one want to beat their head against the wall. Extremely stubborn once he has chosen a course of action; little to no inclination towards planning ahead; regards anyone who disagrees with him as an enemy.

In his extreme rush to depart from Valinor, he leaves behind items of extreme value for intelligence and communication, the palatíri. If they could see as far as Beleriand from Valinor, using them prior to leaving would have been highly prudent. In addition to preventing him from being completely blindsided by the very existence of Angband, it would have told him that Olwë’s brother was the ruler of a substantial realm in Middle-earth that was under attack by Morgoth, thus providing a much stronger argument when seeking to convince the Teleri to join in the Return (“Your brother needs your help!” is clearly a better case than “You’re all ungrateful assholes”).

Even if the palatíri couldn’t be used at such a distance, bringing them along would still have bern invaluable. Using them upon arrival would have, again, provided the knowledge that Morgoth had a fortress and considerable resources of materiel and personnel. Their surveillance and long-distance-communication capabilities would have been of great value throughout the First Age. They could also have prevented the Nirnaeth, where the lack of communications abilities between the two armies was a key factor in the defeat.

And while we’re on the topic of leaving behind invaluble military resources, let’s not forget the the much larger issue of leaving behind more than half of your army - again, while pursuing a war against a very powerful enemy whose full capacities and resources are unknown to you - on the sole basis that they don’t like you very much. It’s an almost incomprehensibly bad decision, entirely on the basis of personal pride, with no practical merits whatsoever. You’re in unknown territory, about to commence a war that you’ve already been warned is hopeless, and your first decision is “No, we need fewer people”?!

And yet, for all this, Fëanor is not the worst of the Noldorin leaders described here. More on that to come!

Fingolfin

During his time in Beleriand, largely does an excellent job from a policy perspective. Firstly, upon arrival, refrains from immediately attacking Angband - despite Morgoth being at a temporary tactical disadvatage due to the Sun - in order take time to gather intelligence and enable his forces to recover from the crossing of the Helcaraxë. He avoids conflict with the Fëanorians despite he and all his people having a rather substantial grievance against them, and when Fingon provides him with an opportunity to reconcile, he does so, and proceeds to set up surveillance of Angband and seek to establish diplomatic relations with the other peoples of Beleriand.

He doesn’t become offended when Thingol is unwilling to meet, and is satisfied with the practical choice of having Finarfin’s children act as go-betweens. He arranges Mereth Aderthad for mutual intelligence-sharing, strengthing of bonds, and diplomatic engagement, and it is essentially successful, though hampered by Thingol’s isolationism. And he doesn’t lose sight of his goal - of the main Noldorin leaders, he’s the most interested in attempting to attack Angband during the Siege.

Maedhros

Many similar characteristics to Fingolfin, during the period of the Siege. Doesn’t allow himself to be offended easily, avoids and defuses conflict insofar as he is able (even if it means moving his family to the other side of Beleriand), seeks out opportunities to build new alliances. Probably very annoyed that Caranthir lost the opportunity to recruit the Haladin by ignoring them for too long. 

Somewhat more cold-blooded and ruthless about policy and objectives than Fingolfin - his statement that Thingol’s realm consists of the areas Thingol can militarily control, and everything else is in practice Noldor territory, comes to mind. And while his motive for recruiting the Men of the East (the Noldor and Edain have a lot fewer people than Morgoth has orcs) doesn’t have to be characterized as “we’re low on cannon fodder”, it certain can be seen that way. (And if Caranthir, never the most diplomatic, was rather less subtle about that, it could explain certain changes in allegiance.)

Fingon

On the whole, he does well. He’s very much a military leader - in addition to taking on Glaurung, he detects and deals with a party of ocrs that are seeking to carry out a surprise attack on Hithlum from the west. He’s stated to have been on good terms with everyone, a valuable characteristic in the contentious House of Finwë. If there’s a policy flaw, it’s that he leads rather too much from the front, given that he’s the crown prince and (after Turgon’s disappearance to Gondolin) there’s no clear heir after him, something that would leave his advisors biting their fingernails.

Turgon

Tempermentally, the opposite of Fingon: not impulsive, and inclined to be slow and conservative in his decision-making. For example, does a lot of planning on Gondolin, but doesn’t take any action until Ulmo gives him more of a push.

The later choice not to evacuate Gondolin is a wrong one, but it comes from a lack of faith more than from bad policy. The policy-makers and bureaucrats of Gondolin would largely have backed the choice - they have strong and extensive defenses, and the rest of Beleriand is overrun by Morgoth’s forces, with no safe strongholds. If they might be attacked in Gondolin, they undoubtedly would be attacked elsewhere, with no walls and towers guarding them. Staying is clearly the most prudent choice. Policy and prophets rarely mesh well.

Finrod

Very good from a policy standpoint, in several respects. He’s proactive, and when he lacks knowledge and expertise on a subject, he seeks out those who have it. We see this with the construction of Nargothrond - first, when considering a place to build, he asks Thingol, since Thingol has greater knowledge of the region. Then he hires the dwarves to help in the building, since they’re the experts on subterranean architecture.

He’s also an skilled diplomat. He stays on good terms with the House of Fëanor (he’s visiting Maedhros and Maglor when he first encounters the Edain). His diplomatic skills are of great benefit to the Edain: for example when he negotiates with Thingol to permit the Haladinto live in Brethil, as well as, earlier, helping Beor’s people to avoid conflict with the Laiquendi. He’s also the only one of the Noldorin princes who consults with Thingol about the Edain, another important indicator of diplomatic tact since the Noldor are inviting the Edain to settle in what is (from Thingol’s point of view, anyway) Thingol’s realm.

He’s certainly more of a diplomat than an administrator, but he is decidedly not a flake or a lightweight. However, it’s certainly possible that the people of Nargothrond felt that they were not a high priority, which could have played a role in later events.

Which brings us to -

Celegorm

If Fëanor is the kind of leader who makes policy types want to beat their head against a wall, Celegorm is the kind who make them want to shoot themselves - or him. Setting aside the patent immorality or everything he does in Nargothrond, and evaluating it solely from the perspective of whether it achieves his goals, it’s still unremittingly terrible.

Let’s begin by granting that in addition to the goal of 1) fighting Morgoth, he and Curufin also have the goals of 2) preventing anyone else from obtaining a Silmaril and 3) consolidating the rule of most of Beleriand under the House of Fëanor by gaining control of Nargothrond and alliance with Doriath.

So. Beren shows up wanting to get a Silmaril out of Angband. There are two possible options here: either it’s impossible, in which case there is no need to impede him, or it’s possible, if which case you want to be involved to at least a sufficient extent to get the Silmaril from him once it’s out of Angband. And you have the ability to talk to animals. So the optimal course is to find a bird that can carry a lightweight, written message to your brothers; proffer assistance in the quest; and have a midsized military force intercept the team on the way out. Moreover, you’ve got the opportunity to try to obtain the other two Silmarils while infiltrating Angband as well - which also gives you a passable non-suspicious motive for the offer of assistance. But going by their actions, actually attempting get the Silmarils away from Morgoth isn’t a priority for Celegorm and Curufin.

So let’s move on to Goal 3, rule of a large segment of Beleriand by the House of Fëanor. Here, again, Celegorm’s methods are not at all conducive to his ends. First, Finrod departs with a very small force on a very dangerous mission into the heart of enemy territory. He is captured. Celegorm regards this as a good thing. However, a little thought would show that Finrod is the person with the most knowledge of Nargothrond - its precise location and means of access, its strengths, its weaknesses, its defenses. He is in the hands of Morgoth’s most skilled torturer. If he breaks, that is a disaster for you. That opens the way to a large-scale invasion, in which case you’ll have no realm and no refuge and no allies, having burned your bridges. And the plans involving Lúthien are even worse, because there is no scenario in which success achieves your goals. Given the nature of Eldarin marriage, if you actually manage to marry her the only possible result in the death of both you and her. (It’s worth noting that Huan’s defection likely saved his master’s life.) And whether she is captive or dead, the most probable result of this plan is the invasion of Nargothrond by Thingol (longer renditions of the Leithian, outside the Silm, note that Thingol was preparing for an attack on Nargothrond when news arrived of the fall of Tol-in-Gaurhoth), which is both bad for you and terrible for the war effort.

So all you’ve managed to do is come up with a succession of actions which are inherently counterproductive to your goals and alienate the two largest realms in Beleriand (with disastrous later consequences for the Nirnaeth).

(I’m barely going to touch on the later attack on Beren and Lúthien, because by that point any long-term goals are entirely forgotten and Celegorm and Curufin are operating solely on the basis of lust and spite, but I will say - If you succeeded, where were you intending to go? Do you think Maedhros will be impressed if you show up on his doorstep with a kidnapped Sindarin princess? Because he won’t be!)

[Many points in the analysis of why Celegorm’s decisions are all terrible can be credited to Philosopher at Large, author of The Leithian Script.]

#tolkien #the silmarillion #fingolfin #maedhros #fingon #turgon #finrod #celegorm #curufin #beren #lúthien #beren and luthien #fëanor

[armenelols]

for the character ask: celeborn, dior, or tindomiel? I can't choose so you have to (or dont!)

I DON'T HAVE TO CHOOSE ANYTHING THESE ARE PERFECT

How I feel about this character:

Celeborn

Another surprising non-half-elf who is among my favourites, deserves way more appreciation. I don't talk about him enough. Also, if I see one more meme about him being useless- *rant mode activated*

Dior

PEOPLE DON'T LOVE HIM ENOUGH (...why is that a common theme with most of my faves *sigh*). Deserved better than he got.

Tindómiel

I mean- she has exactly one (1) mention in The Unfinished Tales, which makes her a perfect character for me to fixate on! Precious, I love her, so many headcanons.

All the people I ship romantically with this character:

Celeborn

Galadriel. They are one of my favourite ships, even tho I never talk about them. Oh well.

Dior

Nimloth, tho I still didn't develop my headcanons for her that much, so I am not THAT passionate about them... Yet. *threatening smirk*

Tindómiel

No one or my OC Eraelin, I've talked about her here.

My non-romantic OTP for this character:

Celeborn

Celebrían, she is daddy's girl and proud of it. All of his grandchildren. Círdan. Elrond, Celeborn is in a confusing dad/friend position for him. Frenemy situation with Glorfindel. Rivalry with Oropher that's mostly on Oropher's side and Celeborn is annoyed but rolls with it since Oropher is stubborn. CELEBRIMBOR. Thingol, Beleg, Mablung, Daeron, LÚTHIEN back in Doriath. I think also Galathil, tho I haven't developed him enough yet.

Dior

I headcanon him as not having that many friends - he grew up isolated at a tiny river island, so it's not like he had many opportunities. But my Dior is very close to Nimloth, their children, and his parents. Also a good relationship with Thingol if they've ever met.

Tindómiel

Manwendil. No question. Attached at a hip or something. She is close to her other brothers too, especially Vardamir as the two of them are the eldest of the bunch. And she is close to Elrond, thus the Tindómiel-Undómiel thing.

My unpopular opinion about this character:

Celeborn

His character is more than wanting to speak with Gandalf, being trophy husband for Galadriel and being a Sinda no one cares about *sigh*

Dior

With Dior being Melian's grandson, Elrond's grandfather, is it so unlikely that his decision not to give up the silmaril was influenced by foresight? That's at least my headcanon - that he saw something Eärendil-related, or the jewel near the Valar, and knew that wouldn't happen if he gave the silmaril to fëanorians.

Not to mention, with everything fëanorians did to his family, it is no wonder he didn't want to give them anything.

Tindómiel

Considering 99% of the fandom ignores her and the remaining 1% makes Tindómiel-Undómiel connection, my opinions on her are almost the only ones in the fandom. Alas.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon:

Celeborn

I want to KNOW he sailed. Not headcanon it. Please. Tolkien. SPECIFY. STOP THE VAGUENESS.

Dior

For him to get to be with Nimloth and all of his children. After death. I think that's what he wants.

Tindómiel

Literally anything. Canon Tindómiel exists without any information on her. GIVE ME THE INFO.

#sorry it took me that long #i had a day of doing literally nothing lol #thanks for the ask! ❤

[anipologist]

The Silmarillion - a Brief Summary (part 1)

Fëanor- Rash Oaths will get you killed, and your sons and your relatives near and far. Oh, and they’ll probably destroy the world too... 

Fingolfin- Just because your kind of mean brilliant older brother does it doesn’t mean you should. Also fighting a Vala is a good way to die.

Finarfin- Looking back and realizing you made a mistake is just the first step. Also it might accidentally make you king.

Maedhros- everyone died. It’s partly my fault because I killed some of them. Other than that I’m a pretty nice guy, I mean I survived being a prisoner of Morgoth with only minor damage to one limb...

Maglor- everyone died except Galadriel and I. It’s partly my fault because I killed some of them. It’s awkward, I have been hiding from my baby cousin wandering the seashore for thousands of years now.

Celegorm- everyone died. It’s partly my fault because I killed some of them. Does it count as kinslaying if you just encouraged Sauron to kill them? Also Huan left me for a girl.

Curufin- everyone died. It’s partly my fault because I killed some of them. Finrod doesn’t count, he should have ignored his stupid oath to the vagabond. And Dior should have just given us the Silmaril, anyone related to Thingol is stiff-necked and more stubborn than an ox. Yes, you too Ingoldo...

Caranthir- everyone died. It’s partly my fault because I killed some of them. Yes, I was right to suspect those yellow-haired Sindar sympathizers. No, I don’t get “diplomacy”, leave me in peace with my dwarves. Also why was Haleth hanging out with Finrod, I helped her first.

Amrod and Amras- everyone died. It’s partly my fault because I killed some of them. Well, unless Dad accidentally burned Amrod with the ships. We’re not actually sure.

Fingon- Maedhros would have been a better brother than Turgon. He wouldn’t have disappeared Vala knows where while Dad fought Morgoth and his best friend was murdered by Sauron. I am glad that Ecthelion got Gothmog. No I don’t have a secret wife and or son, why does everyone think I do?

Turgon - Ulmo told me to. Also I’m a better father than Thingol even if he is taller...by a smidge. Eol deserved it.

Aredhel - Why were we in middle-earth again? Oh, right to fight Morgoth, I probably should have told Lomin that.

Finrod- I don’t want to blame anyone for what happened but Fëanor screwed up and the rest of us did too when we followed him. Sometimes men are better friends than your own kin. Also Men!!! And Dwarves!!! Someone small and unexpected please kill Sauron for me. Lúthien hurry...

Angrod- yes I married, stop ignoring Eldalótë. Yes, we have a son and two grandchildren. Fingon please stop trying to kidnap my grandson. Dragons are the worst. Curvo and Telko if you ever show your faces here again you back-stabbing ingrates...

Aegnor- war was coming! Was I supposed to leave Andreth a widow? Yeah, Lúthien got away with it...have you met her? Even Namo let her off the hook. Ditto on dragons.

Elrond- yes I could have been king of the Noldor...why would I want to? Have you ever met the high king? No? That’s right they’re all dead Finwe, Fëanor, Maedhros, Fingolfin, Fingon, great-granddad. I like my immortal life and Rivendell and Celebrían. I retired after the Last Alliance. Now if I can just keep pesky mortals away from Arwen...

Galadriel-yes, I survived three ages. I think Maglor did too and I’m beginning to suspect that he’s avoiding me. What you thought I’d go tamely back to Valinor? They were going to forgive Sauron! Sauron who murdered Ingo and his loyal friends. I’ll see him defeated and his tower in ruins before I go back.

Gil-Galad- I didn’t even try to kill anyone, besides orcs and Sauron. Yeah dad ran away from him, most sensible people do. Except Uncle Ingo people are still debating how sensible he was and he died. Actually Sauron is more of a work in progress, I think Isildur has it handled.

Celeborn- don’t marry into the house of Finwe unless it’s worth stumbling through several thousand years of betrayal and defeat. Yes, my golden-haired queen you were absolutely worth it. Please stop spying on me...

#the silmarillion #elves #in their own words #tolkien #incorrect quotes #they're all at different points in the timeline I guess #jrr tolkien #high elves #teleri #vanyar #finrod #feanor #fingolfin #galadriel #finarfin #thingol #maedhros #maglor #curufin #celegorm #amrod and amras #not to be confused with #angrod and aegnor #elrond #celeborn #aredhel #turgon #fingon #gil galad #I give up on naming them all and this is just part 1

[squirrelwrangler]

Do you think Indis was a popular queen?

Certainly by temperament and inclination and through prior training and expectation, Indis was more a Queen in what it entailed as a job and made more of an effort than Míriel did (unwillingness to change statements from stubborn pride is not a good quality for a leader, and Indis’s willingness to change her accent in difference to belong to the people she would represent shows that she cared about them) so i think Indis was a dutiful queen and a good queen - well, there’s also that question of if the Noldor actually had QUEEN instead of Spouse of King, because they aren’t actually referred to in-text as such or given any sign that they were enthroned as equals or at least as a ruling set like Thingol and Melian were (whom Galadriel and Celeborn copy). I would have to assume so what with Cuiviénen and the example of Manwë and Varda, but it won’t surprise me if the Noldor as opposed to other elves didn’t.

Now does this translate to Indis being popular? It should have and would have - but you have the demagogue with extreme influence and power and rhetorical prowess in the Noldor King’s firstborn son Fëanor, who hates Indis and would hate for her to popular among his people, just as he hated that the majority of his people spoke with the s instead of th and liked and trusted Fingolfin more, so as long as Fëanor was there I cannot see anything but a strain of political/personal motivation to try to make Indis unpopular. And that in the heightened strife before the Darkening it would gain hold, because you don’t get nasty lines like ‘oh how much better had Finwë not remarried but in retrospect okay we admit Indis’s children were vastly better for everyone than Fëanor’s’ without that current of thought in at least some percentile of people with scope and influence. Majority of Noldor? Never. Vocal minority? Yes. Vocal minority leave during Exile? Also yes.

Post Darkening Indis being rightfully beloved? Hell Yes.

#replies #indis #Anonymous