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#anyway I'm still clearly very deep into this fandom

tavyliasin · 4 months

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Villain-Fucker Angst Hours

Good timezone, darlings~ Are you ready to get all up in your feelings? No? Me neither, loves, but here we are regardless so the words are going to flow as they usually do... This is focused on Raphael from Baldur's Gate 3 and his fandom, but the latter section can easily apply to any villain fandom.

Self-Analysis of Devil-Fuckery, Or Why Do I Adore Raphael When He Is Very Obviously Evil: A Short Essay by TavyliaSin (Who Still Cannot Name Anything With Less Than A Full Paragraph) ((NSFW)) (((Game Spoilers)))

The following may discuss heavier topics, but without specifics, so whilst it should be safe for most to read without triggering any difficult memories please be aware of Raphael's entire vibes, the content and context of his story, and I'd also like to mention that this isn't a "woe be us for we are terrible people" piece, it's actually more about:

"There is an inherent kindness and warmth to much of the Raphael fandom, and I think there could be some common threads behind that, pulling us all in closer in a comforting blanket that we wrap around each other to keep out the cold of the world."

So, what in the nine hells am I on about? Well. Raphael-fandom is a wild and wonderful place to be. The rest is in sections, so feel free to skip through to what you feel is relevant to your interests. I am so prone to waffle I should open a restaurant~

Who Are Fans Of Raphael? What Do They Want?

We are feral, unhinged, all sheets to the wind "I want that devil man, carnally, and there is no force in all the planes that could stop me". There's the vanilla to the extreme and every level in between, tops, bottoms, versatiles, Doms, subs, and switches - there are a whole lot of people who would love to get their hands on either (or both) of Raphael's forms, for a simple smooch or something far more spicy~ [edited in] To add on to this, not all of us even desire him in a sexual way, for many it is romantic, soft, or even just the rather pleasant thought of spending an evening with drinks by the hellfire because he would be fascinating company. Aces, Aros, and AroAces may all find themselves well within the devilish corners of fandom too~ which is a whole other essay~ [end edit] So, I see you. I'm one of you. Extremely loud and utterly hingeless in my fan appreciation for Raphael. He's one of my favourites to write about, I seek art of him, and the same goes for his mirrored other half, Haarlep, who I arguably love more despite there being far less content of them in the game.

And the Fandom? The Vibe?

From my experience in the Raphael Fandom areas, we have a very deep and abiding understanding of consent, respect, and treating each other with an absolute and uncompromising kindness. We've had talks about keeping each other safe in fandom, exchanged details of people we have encountered who need to be avoided, even shared details between moderators of different fandom servers to pre-ban people proven to be creeps and/or art thieves. We've also discussed consent, including the issues with it in the game, and how areas of the story can only really be considered dubious at best and could easily be triggering for people. And these discussions have been open, honest, fair, and with the acknowledgement that most of us love these scenes anyway. So there's a sense of care that runs through everything, behind the horny-posting and fan content, behind the endless thirsting after our favourite fictional characters. We have a depth of kindness that warms my sinners soul every time I see it.

What Does This Have To Do With Self-Reflection, Raphael, or Villainy In General?

Well let's look at Raphael. He's a villain, obviously. He's manipulative, devious, and inherently evil by his very nature. He keeps Hope chained in his basement, constantly subjected to endless torture. There's also mention of how Gortash was sold into his service at a young age, clearly not an enjoyable experience given the other details and how things turn out (particularly as Raphael would need Gortash's own plans to fail entirely in order for him to succeed in his own and get that crown). And as fans, we accept that. We don't sit making excuses, or trying to say "well actually Gortash is a little shit and Hope probably deserve it", and we don't shy away from or conveniently ignore those darker sides of him with malicious intent to enable more evil to flourish. What I noticed, when I allowed the thoughts to continue, is that there is a theme here.

If Evil Can Be Loved Then So Can I

That's the core. Of course, darlings, I am not claiming to be a heinous monster. I certainly do not have a laundry list of crimes that would make the devil himself say "Uh, that's a bit much." But I sure as fuck treat myself like I do sometimes. You see, I think a lot of us have that tendency, to judge ourselves far more harshly than anyone else. Our patience, understanding, and forgiveness for others runs deeper than the Mariana Trench, but when it comes to our own flaws? One minor mistake and we think ourselves to be the worst beings ever to disgrace the earth. Thus, the villainy we see reflects how we are treating ourselves. So by loving and accepting all of those things that should be terrible, hated, we are actually learning that no matter how poorly we think of ourselves that we can be worthy of that same love and acceptance. We are extending the affection we are unable to show ourselves to someone we see the worst parts of ourselves amplified within. And that's why villains attract the people with the most kindness. The most forgiveness. Because it takes someone with a truly huge amount of empathy to find love for the embodiment of evil.

Or, IDK, maybe villains are just hot and we're too far down to care.

But wait, before you go!

THERE'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT.

All of this is about FICTION. We should never be accepting of the kinds of evil we see in the game irl. We do not owe anyone kindness if they do not show it to us.

What is hot in fiction is not always OK IRL.

Look after yourselves out there, remember that consent is key in all things, and please do try to learn to love yourselves, darlings, you are worthy of it and you should judge yourself by the same standard you judge others. If you are in doubt, if you are worried, if you feel afraid - reach out, talk to someone. There are many who will listen.

Treat yourself as you would treat a friend. You deserve that much.

Oh, and all Raphael fans who understand kindness are welcome around me, any hour of the day, I adore our little fandom circles and would gladly collect all of us together. I'm following a lot of you as soon as I find you, like hunting shiny pokemon~

See you in Avernus, my darling Little Mice, may we all find joy in the Cambion's Embrace~

#baldurs gate 3 #raphael #bg3 raphael #villain fucker #personal reflection #analysis of the inner mind by a complete amateur #listen the thoughts get loud then I write them down darlings it happens all the time #love yourself please #you are worth more than you give yourself credit for #and keep loving those villains! it's good for you!#be kind to yourself #and be kind in the community #did this even make sense? well it's there now so tough #DMS are open for fellow fans with excellent taste~

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tulipsforvin · 1 month

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Hello! You are one of the few authors who write something in this MTP fandom. And I really enjoy your fanfics💐 Can I request a smut with Mycroft?

I apologize...My English is a bit broken, I hope I wrote clearly😭

✧ your grammar's fine, don't worry! your request was a little vague so i added whatever i could think of, hope you don't mind :)

✧ p.s: thank you for the kind words ᥫ᭡ !! thnx for requesting, love <3

✧ mycroft x f!reader + getting head & fingering (f!receiving) + praising

mycroft had been more busy with his duties lately. he'd barely come home and even when he did, which was quite rare, he'd be too tired to properly even engage in a simple conversation with his love.

“..oh, right there.”

and this was his way for making up for his neglect.

your back arches off the bed by the slightest inch, fingers tangled into his dark hair, tugging and tugging at every new sensation, every new need of yours.

“hmhh..” he groans into your cunt, lips wrapped deliciously around your swollen, throbbing clit.

mycroft is on his knees on the edge of the bed, arms wrapped around your thighs which he uses to pull you close. you're wet. so, so very wet—dripping down from your pussy to the expensive bedsheet below you, not that you cared right now anyway.

“mycroft..” you begin, but are immediately stopped when he licks a stripe down from your clit to your vulva. “hngh— fuck.” to add to the pleasure, his fingers walk up from your pelvis to your breasts and he uses his thumbs to draw circles over your nipples.

he's slow, but precise with his actions. some time in and you finally realize that he isn't just randomly lapping you up — he's circling his initials into your clit. you gasp every time he starts with the 'M' and shudder everytime he ends with the 'H', as if your body was his.

yet it only turned you on even more.

“a-ah..” you're practically humping yourself onto his face and the man willingly sticks out his tongue for you to relieve yourself.

“doing so well for me.” he murmurs, and although his words are slurry, his praise makes you even more determined to get yourself off on him, makes you ride his tongue even faster. his hands wrap around your breasts and he fondles them, gives them an occasional squeeze once in a while.

surely getting yourself off on him would be a piece of cake, right? but the time spent apart was so long and you couldn't even remember the last time you touched yourself so everytime you neared your high, your body suddenly couldn't handle it anymore and slowed down on it's pace, edging you.

“m-mycroft..” your eyes are pooled with unshed, desperate tears and you whine his name out softly. you're frustrated. and you want, no, need to cum.

the man wasn't dumb, he knew of your frustrations so he cooes to you. “shh, shh. it's okay. i'll get you there, sweetheart. trust me.”

so he took matters into his own hands and delved even deeper between your legs. his tongue laps at you faster, sucks and kisses your clit — even adds in a finger to help you—help his poor, sweet girl.

his fingers pump in out of you and his tongue is still unrelenting in it's pace. “fuck— please..! i'm going to cum, please-” and yet, your body didn't seem to listen to you. getting closer and closer to your high was making you overwhelmed, and the stimulation was simply too much.

“haa.. hngh, i-” you're tugging at his hair, back arched, toes curled, mouth agape. “p’ease—” and you've hit the edge. your moans grow louder, fill the room and your thighs shudder and try to close around his head but he keeps your legs spread apart with his big hands, caressing your legs.

mycroft only hums in response, rubbing and caressing his hands all over your body. “that's it, that's it.” he whispers. “let it out, that's my good girl.” you're gasping — unsteady, short breaths while he helps you come down from your high.

“good, good” his voice is raspy, deep, aroused.

that was beautiful, he thinks. the strain against his pants is obvious and you're sure he's almost leaking with the stain you see when you prop up on your elbows to look at him. “good job, dear.”

your eyes flick to the clock and so does his.

10:34 AM.

“now that i'm aware i'm late,” he murmurs close to you. “i might as well take the day off an indulge in you, instead.”

#IT'S BEEN SO LONG #SINCE I WROTE SMUT #I'M SO EMBARRASSED #but i hope you like it !!#moriarty the patriot #yuukoku no moriarty #moriarty the patriot smut #yuukoku no moriarty smut #mycroft holmes x you #mtp mycroft holmes #mycroft holmes x y/n #mycroft holmes x reader #mycroft holmes smut #mycroft holmes #mycroft holmes x reader smut #yuumori

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liesmyth · 1 month

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anon! I see you! same for the other anon I got 3 weeks ago and left on read — I was trying to decide how to phrase this.

I'm not publishing these in full because I'd rather talk about cool fandom theories I like instead of singling out specific takes I don't agree with.

The one thing I really feel like saying publicly re: TLT fandom discourse is that I think we could all benefit from, like, taking a step back from invoking Tamsyn when it comes to discussing theories or interpretations. I think the tone of the discourse and the fandom as a whole would be a lot healthier if we just agreed that we're getting a lil' bit silly with it, which is 100% what Tamsyn wanted when she started writing, anyway.

There are many fandom posts that EYE would find very compelling if they were presented as "This is a cool idea I had and the lenses through which I choose to engage with this story and these characters..." but often take the tone of "This is CLEARLY what the author means to do, listen up..." — with the implications that people who see things differently are getting a bad grade in lockedtomb reading, and then it stops being fun and it starts getting pretty hostile pretty quick.

I think a lot about Tamsyn's quote "I am writing for my younger self and it would be disgusting of me to try to teach her anything." That's the spirit in which I think it's most fun to engage with her writing. She's an excellent author and her books have a lot going on and many angles you can look at... but they aren't flawless, and she can't have accounted for all the theories the fandom is coming up with. I think we should stop trying to look at these books as though they are That Serious, and give ourselves more credit that maybe we're coming up with stuff the creator never considered, and that doesn't mean your stuff is less valid, but it does mean you shouldn't flex on other fans because you see it and they don't. From everything we know about Tamsyn, she'd probably be the first to say "It's not that deep, unless you want it to be."

For comparison, I've been in ASOIAF fandom for 15 years and we haven't had new material for almost as long and silly theories and renewed interpretations are flourishing every month, and nobody gives a fig about what GRRM was really trying to say because maybe the author's intention isn't the ultimate value of a work, and the author is dead anyway.

IDK. I think we should all get a little sillier with it. I've been guilty of some Not Silly in the past, though hopefully not much, but ultimately I'm here to have fun and so are most people. Especially since TLT is still ongoing, and many interpretations WILL get debunked, we're probably just better off now putting less stock on authorial backing to avoid disappointment later on, and to have more fun as a fandom during the #alectopause.

ANYWAY my askbox is always open specifically to get silly with it. I haven't hornyposted about lyctor sex in a while

#ask #elle tlt posting #anonymous

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isa-ghost · 1 month

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Hey, do you have any Phil & Charlie hcs or perhaps Phil & Foolish?

I'm having such a struggle picking which fucking one to do bc on one hand Foolish probably has more material to work with but on the other I've seen Phil and Charlie interact so much (but like outside of qsmp) that I'd have a way better idea of their dynamic. Charlie Slimecicle log on qsmp more often you talented fuck.

Anyway we're gonna attempt some Phil/Foolish ones. I think they're called Immortals or some shit?? Idr.

qPhil headcanons masterlist

Phil had no fucking clue what Foolish's deal was prior to being paired with him on Bolas. He knew he was a goofy happy-go-lucky and talented guy that?? Maybe had allegiances with the Feds?? Hard to tell?? He thought it was a bit tbh. But Purgatory opened Phil's eyes up and he learned that yeah, he's kinda right to a degree. But there are still layers to Foolish despite how Just Vibing he is.

And holy shit can he TELL Foolish has the capacity to be terrifying. You're telling me an immortal shark-totem hybrid doesn't have the ability to kill a motherfucker violently??? NAH. Phil can tell if enough of the right buttons are pushed, Foolish would snap and tear a bitch to shreds. Likely for Leo.

Phil's not entirely sure he can trust Foolish bc he's so unclear about where his loyalties lie, but Phil CAN tell that Foolish keeps it that way for a reason, and Phil thinks it's smart. Despite not entirely trusting him, he believes Foolish wouldn't like. Sell out his friends for a corn chip, yknow?

Now when you take all the serious out of these two though, THEN it gets interesting. Foolish is one of the islanders that has the easiest time getting Phil to let loose. It's just contagious, Foolish is too silly.

At the same time Phil looks at him and is just like ???? How the fuck does he smile through the horrors like that ???? Like clearly he's aware Situations suck and he's anxious like anyone else so how does he have the willpower to be silly and chill???? Phil envies it. He's too full of anxiety. Survivalist's curse.

Foolish's laugh is pure serotonin to Phil. And kryptonite, Foolish's laugh makes Phil laugh. He can't help it. Motherfucker sounds like a window washer squeegee thing when he's dying.

They have 2 very different flavors of immortality to me and while I don't know how a conversation about it would go bc Foolish is so casual and Phil is so? Not secretive but like. Not nonchalant about it? There's still something there that the ccs should cook on. I'm begging them to, in fact.

Also something about how one of them has deep ties to the air and the other technically has deep ties to the sea. Something about that. Especially when used in like, a serious situation. Like spying on the Federation or some shit. Do you see my vision. Using their inborn abilities to their advantage while in collaboration with each other for the sake of them and their friends. Do you see it.

Phil: Gifting shed feathers to trusted loved ones 🤝🏻 Foolish: Gifting lost shark teeth to trusted loved ones

I don't headcanon Phil as a short king like the entire rest of the fandom apparently does but obviously Foolish is fucking enormous compared to 99% of people, Phil included. If Phil could fly he'd spitefully hover just a little higher than Foolish's full height just to mess with him.

FUCKING. TALENTED BIG BUILDS DUO. SHAKING THEM BY THE SHOULDERS WHEN WILL THEY COLLAB. (The kids beg for this often)

Foolish has no idea if he's some kinda deity or if he's just immortal with some kinda weird totem roots and it drives Phil insane bc the hardcore deities have such a different energy than him yet you're telling him (maybe) both are divinity??

Speaking of the hardcore deities, Phil desperately wants to introduce Foolish to the Ocean Overlord bc they're (maybe) both himbo gods with some sort of tie to the ocean that are just vibing their asses off. (Oh my god wait I'm cooking on that idea. Doozers let's cook together on this).

Phil is jealous that Foolish can still swim, the thing he's deeply connected to (esp with those cosmetic fins he has) but he can't fly, the thing he's deeply connected to. But really it's just that Foolish is lucky bc the Federation would have to horrifically butcher him more or less in order to take away his ability to swim properly. Phil's easier to forcibly contain.

Believe it or not, if a situation arose where it was necessary, Phil would pick Foolish for his team (again) in a heartbeat. He may not be as passionate about fighting as Etoiles, or as ruthless as Fit, but hes powerful nonetheless, a trusted friend, has been in that situation with Phil before, and is a beacon of positivity; excellent for morale. Silly disposition and weird alliances aside, Foolish is an invaluable addition to a team from an objective perspective.

#qsmp #qsmp philza #philza #q!philza #qsmp foolish #foolish gamers #q!foolish #qphil headcanons

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itsloverrrboy · 1 year

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──aliens

i. twilight

ii. emmett cullen x m.reader

iii. language/cussing, fluff

iiii. a/n: I haven't written twilight before so this is my first time, IS THE TWILIGHT FANDOM STILL ALIVE??😭

It was a few days after the first day of school, your sister already made friends while you had not. You sat with them at a table, the fact that you didn't know them or didn't know where to go besides the cafeteria.

All this time you hadn't listened to a word they were saying besides gossiping about the "Cullens?" You guessed some popular teenagers like in those terrible high school movies, all you were doing was eating Bella's food.

You burped out loud to have the whole table glance at you.

"What?" You attempted to say with your mouth being stuffed down with the cafeteria food, meanwhile: the brunette was disgusted.

"Cover your mouth, (Name)" you simply chewed louder and made noises; doing the complete opposite of what Bella asked. Some laughed, and others were grossed out.

"Please go somewhere else" she shoved your face away from hers as you pouted and stood up anyways, grabbing your- or more like Bella's tray to throw it away.

"Fine. You don't deserve my love and affection" you walked away; being a little extra and chose to stick out your tongue at her, not seeing the little smile on her face.

"Very mature" she mumbled, glad you didn't hear her...otherwise you two would be arguing the whole lunch period.

As you went towards the trash can, you didn't notice another boy your "age" standing a few feet behind you. Turning around again, it felt like you bumped into a hard brick wall...

Glancing up to make eye contact with a tall male. He was definitely not a wall.

He had broad shoulders and saw his strong muscles through his white jacket. His golden bright eyes gazed back at you with wonder as his pupils dilated, despite his large scary figure, you smiled up at the handsome man.

"You should watch where you're going big guy" you joked.

Surprisingly he laughed or more like chuckled at you, was a bit taken aback, he still responded with the same energy.

"You were in the way," his handsome face had a playful smirk. You put your hands up defensively at his comment "you got me there" he then stuck out his hand out unexpectedly.

Did he wanted to talk to you?

"I'm Emmet."

"(Name.)" You shook his hand and felt his pale skin was cold like ice, you winced and pull your hand back immediately.

"Jesus, what are you? A vampire?" He raised his eyebrows in amusement, funny to him that you were right all along and had no idea.

"You believe in vampires?" You shrugged your shoulders and walked with him to get another tray "uh, no but I do believe in aliens" he scoffed and watched you get a salad.

You looked back at him at the sudden noise he made "what? Aliens are real, why wouldn't they exist...we have the whole earth, space, and universe to ourselves-" as you kept talking and grabbing a couple of things, you didn't realize his eyes soften.

As soon as you burst in through the cafeteria door, he smelled your scent and felt a deep connection with you; knowing you were his mate. He was surprised you were a male but was glad you weren't some old man. His sister encouraged him to talk to you and...was not disappointed.

His snorting caught your attention, you looked at him again with a confused look.

"Sorry." He clearly wasn't.

"What's so funny?"

"You're just really cute" he complimented with an adorable smile as you felt warm at his sudden bluntness, you coughed awkwardly and thanked him.

Talking for a few more minutes-or more like Emmet listening about your silly theories, but before your went to sit down with your boring sister. You gently put your tray down for a second and got out a pen.

"You know...if you ever want to talk about aliens sometime, here's my number" you shyly mumbled out as your bad hand writing was stain to his arm.

The buff man doing his victory dance inside his head, he nodded and tried to stay calm by not freaking you out. He knew his brother was reading his mind and would probably tease him later for acting like this.

At least now you've had a friend.

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herpartnerintime · 7 months

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Why I believe Max and Chloe are both lesbians

Max is a Lesbian

Chloe is a Lesbian

Max and Chloe have never had their sexualities confirmed in the games but many in the fandom headcanon Max as bisexual and Chloe as a lesbian (or less often bisexual) but there are many of us who see Max as a lesbian just like Chloe. Having played the games many times with my own lesbian eyes, I've realized that on the surface level Max's sexuality may seem clearly bisexual, but when you really pay attention, lesbian starts feeling closer to Max, as many of us picked up on Max experiencing comphet when it comes to boys. Inspired by my Before you say Chloe is a bad friend post I wanted to make another long post gathering details from Life is Strange, Before the Storm and Farewell in my long waffling way to help people better understand why many of us see lesbian as the sexuality that fits Max just as much as it fits Chloe, as we explore Max and Chloe's sexual awakenings paralleling each other. Grab some snacks, this will be a long one!

Let's start with Max! I'll start by saying I imagine Max even by the end of the game doesn't have a label for herself yet. It will take time after the storm, with all the trauma to come, but as she and Chloe heal I think Max will be able to reflect and come to understand herself and why lesbian feels right to her. Fans tend to go between Bisexual or Lesbian for Max's label, and I do see how bi can be possible. Max can after all, kiss Warren and she does think some skater boys are cute. But many of us have taken a deep dive into the game and the journal entries to piece together what many of us believe may be signs of comphet with Max (the way many of us assume ourselves as straight by default), and signs that point to a lesbian sexuality. I'll first start off with something critical to understand. Some players believe you can make Max gay, straight, or bisexual depending on if you romance Warren. This is false. Max cannot be straight, because her feelings for Chloe still exist regardless if you choose to go to the drive in with Warren or don't kiss Chloe. Regardless of what choice you make, Max and Chloe are still experiencing feelings for each other. They're still flirting, calling each other cute by the pool for example, and Max's journal shows she is very much catching feelings for her best friend no matter what choices you make. If you don't kiss Chloe, she still writes about regretting the kiss.

I would have, but I didn't like being dared like it was some big deal. Maybe I am scared. Of what? I think I'm too young for marriage. And Chloe and I might kill each other. Max says she would have and admits to being scared. She also wonders if she is to young for marriage. Why is her mind going right to marriage over a kiss? I think this Max who doesn't kiss Chloe wants too but was to scared to do so. To scared to be honest with herself about how she feels, trying to convince herself they would never work anyway. I've never been so glad to see Chloe in my life. The second I saw her blue hair and that beautiful pissed off face, I kind of regretted not kissing her when she double dared me. Maybe if she had double dog dared me... After she comes back from the alternate reality where she either watches Chloe die or leaves her in pain, Max writes how she regretted not kissing her when she double dared her. If Max had no feelings for Chloe, she would have written about how she wanted to say hug her forever or something platonic, not write about wanting to kiss her, and wishing Chloe had put more pressure on the kiss with a double dog dare.

Chloe will always be my best friend, but who knows how she really sees me? I know she wasn't mad I didn't kiss her... I feel like we're more family than couple... just a couple of dorky kids who grew up in a fucked up, amazing world... Maybe that's why I hated watching Chloe being so cruel in the nightmare, calling me names and trying to hurt me... I was surprised that it was like a physical pain in my heart. Is that the power of love... or friendship? I believe you're about to find out, Max Caulfield. I think something to remember in this entry is you didn't make Max brave enough to act on her feelings and as a result, you've made Max become in denial of her feelings, afraid to face them and what they might mean. She's aware they are there, these feelings, the fact she is questioning if this is the power of love or friendship says it all. Remember, she was writing about regretting the kiss earlier. And, the nightmare still has Chloe being flirted with and kissing others regardless of if you kiss Chloe or not and it still bothers Max. I think Max in this end ultimately buries her feelings for Chloe because you didn't make her brave enough to act on them. And deep down she thinks she's not good enough for Chloe anyway so writes Chloe off as "more family than couple'. I've seen some dismiss this as Max simply experimenting in this version of the story and realizing she didn't have feelings, but that can't be true, not when we know what happens in the story if you let Max act on her feelings. This isn't about experimentation, this is about you as the player choosing to keep Max in the closet or not when it comes to her sexuality and feelings for Chloe. That is your player choice, not whether you can make her gay or straight. Now that we've made it clear Max can't be straight and that her feelings for Chloe still exist even if you don't kiss her, I want to talk about Warren and the way she writes about him versus how she writes about Chloe. Once I gave Juliet the proof that Victoria was behind it all, I went to get Warren's flash drive from Dana. She was in a weird mood, but we said nasty things about Victoria and I think it definitely made her feel better. We talked about Warren and Dana implied he likes me. Ew. Agree to Movie Oh wait... I did say I would go to the drive-in with him. Hope he doesn't make a lame move on me... (Not that he would, egomaniac.) Warren and I do have a lot in common, but he's like a supercool geek brother... Anyway, I definitely need a movie escape.

Don't agree to Movie Oh wait. He did try and get me to go to the drive-in with him, and I refused. I'm not really in the mood this week, and I also don't want to lead him on... Kisses him in Episode 5 Considering how insane my life has been this week, kissing Warren in the middle of a deadly storm didn't seem to be that strange. It felt like we were flipping off the cruel universe... and if I was going to die, I wanted one kiss from a boy I cared about.

Now let's compare to how she writes about Chloe Kissed Chloe in Episode 3

So I did. She probably thought I'd wuss out. Why? It wasn't that big a deal. Though it was cute the way she was kind of embarrassed after and said she would tell Warren.

episode 4 I've never been so glad to see Chloe in my life. The second I saw her blue hair and that beautiful pissed off face I wanted to kiss her again.

Episode 5 I'm glad Warren is such a good friend. Considering how insane my life has been this week, kissing Chloe instead of him didn't seem that strange. It felt like Chloe and I were flipping off the cruel universe... and if I was going to die, I wanted one kiss from my best friend. How could this not be some kind of fate or destiny? Even though we're opposites in so many ways, we're also so alike. We'll always be pirates in spirit and we'll always want to take on the world... It sounds so stupid to say that she's my hero, but if not her, who else? Sometimes Chloe and I feel like yin and yang. Who knows? Maybe we're here to give each other strength... or more. Chloe is more than my best friend, but who knows how she really sees me? She did dare me to kiss her, but she seemed surprised that I actually did. I am too, but I don't regret it for a second. Maybe that's why I hated watching Chloe being so cruel in the nightmare, calling me names and flirting with all those people... I was surprised that it was like a physical pain in my heart. Is that the power of friendship... or love? I believe you're about to find out, Max Caulfield.

Have you noticed something about her journals on Warren and on Chloe? You'll notice Max has so much more to say about her feelings for Chloe. All she ever says about Warren in regards to possible feelings is 'he's a boy she cares about' when she can kiss him in episode 5. Other than that, her journals she writes about him in regards to liking him like that are writing ew and in another she writes how she sees him as a brother and hopes he doesn't make a move on her. She never writes like this about Chloe. I know people take the fact Max can kiss Warren in episode 5 as her being bisexual but I feel like Max was discovering herself in this game having never been in a relationship before or even having a first kiss before the kiss dare. I know she can think some boys are cute, like skater boys but Chloe was also a skater, which could explain Max having that attraction to skaters, but the comphet making her just focus on boys, like she's supposed too, unable to make the connection she associates skating with Chloe. "He's cute. I like skater boys. Too bad they don't like me." Max thinks this of Trevor in the hallway of Blackwell. Trevor also happens to be wearing a beanie. These may seem like small details, but it's hard to not notice that Max ends up catching feelings for her skater beanie wearing best friend. It's also worth noting one of the optional photos involves Trevor failing a skating trick and Max taking a photo while he is in pain. She seems to take notice of boys being cute, but otherwise can seem disinterested in them. Even when it comes to touch, she backs away from Warren's hug attempt in episode 1 when she goes to give him back the USB, aware he is catching feelings for her and showing her discomfort about it. Then you just look at Max and Chloe, and how comfortable Max is at all times with physical touch from Chloe, even though Chloe has begun flirting with her and showing clear interest, it doesn't appear to make Max uncomfortable like Warren's interest in her does. Max does accept some physical touch from Warren, such as being comforted after Kate or hugging him in the diner because as she says, she could use a hug after what she's been through. But you'll notice she can be avoidant or unresponsive otherwise, such as how she acts when he puts his arm around her outside the Vortex Club party. She seems very comfortable with physical touch from Chloe, but not so much with Warren. Both of them are making their feelings for her known, but it's only the boy who Max can seem uncomfortable with at times. There's more to say about Max and this topic, but first, let's talk about the texting now between Max and Chloe and Max and Warren. Do you ever notice how many texts Warren sends Max, and the timestamps? She's very slow responding to him, but responds in a minute/within minutes with Chloe. She flirts back with Chloe too in texts, where she doesn't do so with Warren. If you explore Max's texts to Chloe and Warren here you'll notice a pattern of Max taking a very long time to answer Warren, until she finally gets around to sending off a quick message to him, usually short and to the point. Here's an example of the texts you find in Max's phone when you start the game from Warren. Do u want to meet for coffee after school? I need an excuse to not study. 10/02 1:14 pm PLEASE. 10/02 1:14 pm Make sure you check out NEKRomantik on my flash drive. Mwahaha 10/03 5:42 pm HEY MAD MAX. LETS BUST SHIT UP. 10/05 3:06 pm Wait. I have to study for a physics test. So if we bust anything, we also have to measure its velocity. 10/05 3:06 pm Don't ignore this message. 10/05 3:07 pm Hi Mx, can you get my flash drive? I need some info. And space. 10/07 4:21 pm Hullo? 10/07 4:21 pm Srry. Running late. Insane day. 10/07 4:22 pm

You'll notice Warren has been texting Max for days with no response. She likely sees and talks to him in school, but she wasn't taking the time to respond to his texts, which seems a bit strange for a boy she is supposed to be interested in.

Warren even sends her a picture of himself bruised up after protecting her from Nathan, with Max herself not having asked if he was okay.

Earth to Max: Your white knight Warren here. I know you were worried about me 10/07 6:36 pm I owe u. Thanks for today. I'll call back later, k? I SWEAR. 10/07 6:37 pm Now it makes sense given what happened in her day she didn't text him to ask if he was okay, but she did leave Chloe's side to find tools to fix her camera, and he wasn't even on her thoughts. She actually wasn't worried about him, but more worried about her broken camera and how sad Chloe seemed, which again is a bit strange for her if this is a boy she is interested in. Max then tells him she'll call him later. This is a pattern. Max is always ending conversations short with him, and always telling him she'll talk later. With Chloe on the other hand, this text about sums them up... u there mad max 10/08 7:34 am Like I said. Always for you :) :) :) :) 10/08 7:34 am NO EMOJI!!! 10/08 7:35 am :( 10/08 7:35 am

She is not always there for Warren in the game. She frequently tells him she'll call later or doesn't, or tries to end conversations quickly. Even if she accepts the drive in date, Max doesn't respond to him when he texts.... I'll let you take care of the popcorn. In other words you can't back out now :) 10/09 8:14 am OK, it's officially sold out BUT 10/09 9:21 am I managed to get us both tickets Had to fight a dozen bullies off for 'em though Freaking nerds 10/09 9:21 am Now Max is of course as we the player know, kinda going through ALOT right now with the discovery of her Super Powers and everything else, but she always responds to Chloe so quickly, even if they are just joking around. She could have quickly texted Warren an "awesome thanks" or a "I can't wait to go to the drive in with you" but she sends nothing in return. With this said, there are some exchanges that happens where she does talk more about the drive in. We are so GOING APE! Newberg is 60 miles so we should leave around 5. I drive. 10/08 9:19 am

Hell yeah we will in your new ride. 10/08 9:19 am

We have to get supplies for the drive-in. Maybe we can have dinner first. 10/08 9:19 am

..... 10/08 9:20 am

Or whatever. Anyway. GO APE! 10/08 9:22 am

Too late! 10/08 9:22 am

:) 10/08 9:22 am

Warren is still doing much of the talking here, with Max not giving an answer about dinner first, just saying too late about dinner! If Max turns down the invite, he sends instead... No worries about not GOING APE with me. 10/08 9:19 am

Thought it would be cool to take a road trip in the new wheels. I'll just drive in circles around town. 10/08 9:19 am

I'm sorry, Warren. Hard week. 10/08 9:20 am

I still owe you. 10/08 9:20 am

Yes you do. 10/08 9:20 am

Let me know if you change your mind. 10/08 9:21 am

(-_*) 10/08 9:22 am

I still owe you. Max says and writes that a lot. We both looked at each other like WTF? Next thing I knew, I was in her truck as Warren earned his man card and tried to get Nathan off my ass. I owe Warren big-time. I owe u. Thanks for today. I'll call back later, k? I SWEAR.

I still owe you. 10/08 9:20 am Yes you do. 10/08 9:20 am This one is if you don't kiss Chloe and accepted his invite.

Yo yo Max. Your friend Chloe txtd me that you shot her down. True? 10/10 8:41 am Chloe actually texted you? 10/10 8:42 am I sure didn’t have her number. 10/10 8:42 am Oh God. 10/10 8:42 am I don’t want to embarrass you. 10/10 8:42 am Too late. 10/10 8:43 am She sounds cool. 10/10 8:43 am She’s a cool dork. 10/10 8:43 am Like me? 10/10 8:43 am No, you’re different. In a good way. 10/10 8:43 am So we’re still on to "Go Ape"? 10/10 8:44 am No damn dirty human can stop me. 10/10 8:44 am GO APE NOT HUMAN 10/10 8:44 am We shall see. 10/10 8:44 am Now I have to get back to reality. 10/10 8:45 am That sucks. 10/10 8:45 am Indeed. I’ll buzz you later. 10/10 8:45 am

So on the surface level, this might just look like Max turned down Chloe because she didn't have feelings for Chloe, but does for him. But we know from Max's interactions with Chloe and her journals about really regretting not kissing Chloe, more than once, Max is indeed very embarrassed, not just because Warren knows about it, but because she DOES have feelings for Chloe and suddenly someone knows about how Chloe dared her to kiss her.

For someone still figuring out their sexuality this can feel like being put on the spot, that comphet making you feel almost like you have to brush it off and act like it was nothing no I'm totally not gay. Max calls her a cool dork and then when Warren asks if she's still on to go ape, Max responds this time, unlike the way she ignored his texts about the drive in before and says "No damn dirty ape can stop me". My interpretation of this text exchange is Max is embarrassed and overwhelmed at the implication of Warren knowing Chloe was into her and that she herself possibly was into Chloe back (even if the kiss didn't even happen), and so she is trying to shake off that feeling, and focus on the drive in with Warren because she's totally not into girls or Chloe right? By making it clear she's still down for the drive in, she also keeps the topic off Chloe.

I want to again bring up her last journal if you didn't kiss Chloe, where her conclusion is she sees them as more friends than couple and how I concluded if you don't kiss Chloe, the story ends for Max in denial about her feelings for Chloe, and I feel like this text exchange is a show of that denial, as Max tries to push away her feelings for Chloe and possibly try and push herself to feel more feelings for a boy her journal suggested she was not having feelings for the way she was for a girl. Let's look for a moment at the text exchange if you kissed Chloe and didn't accept his invite. Yo yo Max. Your friend Chloe txtd me that I’m out of the loop now. She sounds hot so I get why. 10/10 8:41 am Chloe actually texted you? 10/10 8:42 am I sure didn't have her number. Now I get why you didn't want to "Go Ape" with me. You should go with Chloe. 10/10 8:42 am She looks cool enough for you. 10/10 8:42 am I have a lot of cool friends. Like you. 10/10 8:43 am Yes, you do. Just my luck. 10/10 8:43 And mine. I have to jet. TTYL. 10/10 8:43 am I hope so. 10/10 8:43 am Max shows she is shocked here Chloe texted him. She doesn't express embarrassment this time however, like she did when she said Oh God when she doesn't kiss Chloe. This to me shows Max was feeling more confident because she had kissed Chloe, she wasn't in denial about her feelings and starting to discover her sexuality and confidence. She therefore isn't embarrassed Warren knows about the kiss, she may not be ready to talk about it yet or with him, but she isn't embarrassed as she is if she turns down the kiss and there's this implication she may not be straight. The Max that doesn't kiss Chloe is trying to ignore/deny her feelings for Chloe and therefore, feels more uncomfortable at people being aware of it. I would also guess Max is experiencing a similar thrill from her expression as she did in the classroom if Chloe texts she wants to marry her, seeing Chloe is making it clear to someone she knows that likes her that Max is HERS. For the girl she likes to do that... Max is starting to realize more and more what she writes later in her journal, that they are more than friends now. Speaking of that text... a fan favourite if you 'shoot' Frank. max the boss with the gun marry me Illegal in Oregon. For now. fuq that shit elope Max opens this text right in class and then Jefferson calls her out and tells her to put her phone away before Max can say more. Max is very openly flirting back with Chloe in these texts, something we don't see her do with Warren. With all the journals we know will exist after this point, with Max realizing they were more than friends, these texts weren't just friends being silly but Max flirting back with Chloe and being exhilarated by it.

We also see Chloe sometimes messages Max several times in a row. The difference? Max doesn't seem to mind as she responds in the same minute.

max 10/08 8:08 am food 10/08 8:08 am two whales 10/08 8:08 am Don't hurt your fingers texting 10/08 8:08 am Yay breakfast! (^_^) 10/08 8:09 am NO EMOJI 10/08 8:09 am

Now let's talk about the way Max and Chloe talk about boys, to each other. Max: So... you never really told me if you had a serious boyfriend while I was away... Chloe: Not serious. Hella stupid, usually. I went through a "boy toy" phase. Among other things... Max: I can't see you with any of the guys around here... Chloe: Because you have a good eye. That's why I was so glad Rachel came along to rescue me. Max: Sounds like you totally crushed on Rachel. Chloe: You would have too. Smart, sexy and sassy... Like me, right?Max: Well, duh! Maybe Rachel would have fought over both of us. Chloe: You wish! Then again, maybe... you're a photographer and she wanted to be a model. Max: As Blackwell proves, boys are trouble. Chloe: And way fucking gross. As you'll discover soon enough. Max: Oh okay, Woman of the World. Please tell me what it's like to get that first magic kiss! Chloe: Sorry, sorry. Didn't mean to get you all worked up. I just don't think anybody is good enough for you... besides me. Notice how Max says well, duh, confirming she sees Chloe as smart, sexy and sassy and jokes even about Rachel fighting over both of them, showing how comfortable Max is at the idea of girls liking her, versus how she acts at the thought of boys liking her, like at the pool, as you will see below. Pool Scene Chloe: Dude, I'm not her groupie, okay? And I'm sure you have Blackwell bros all over you—like Warren... Gross! option Max: Ew! I don't want any Blackwell bros over me. There's a couple cute guys there but they probably think I'm a total nerd. Chloe: Uh, nerds are hot. You just don't have any confidence yet.

Max: Unfortunately, that didn't come with my rewind power... Warren is nice option

Max: Warren is nice...

Chloe: [chuckles] Nice? Ouch. That means "Friendzone."

Max: No, he's really cool. It was so sweet when he stood up to Nathan... But I haven't told him about my rewind power... You're the Bro Killer option

Max: You're the bro killer. Tats and 'tude... Chloe: You did not just say that. Plus I am not down with these Arcadia Bay hillbillies. Max: I don't blame you... Anyway, we have bigger fish to fry, right?

Now Max does say there are a couple of cute guys, and this indeed could indicate bisexuality, but lesbians can think boys are cute on the surface level. But here's something worth mentioning. While we can find boys cute on surface level, the moment things start moving beyond friendship, we start feeling uncomfortable and start avoiding, kind of like how Max puts off Warren's texts because she's come to realize he sees her as more than a friend, and she doesn't know what to do with that. This might explain the journal where she writes I never really found a groove with my classmates. (Or boys...) as the moment a boy she thinks is cute begins possibly having feelings for her, it may have made her uncomfortable, causing her to, 'not find a groove with boys' as a result and not fully understanding why. Even when discussing boys with Chloe, Max's options and responses are interesting. You can choose gross, and then Max says ew and that she doesn't want any Blackwell bros all over her, and Chloe had mentioned Warren as one of the Blackwell bros. She then says she finds some cute, which seems to me again like she's able to see boys on the surface level as cute, but does not like the idea of them actually being into her back. Her other options are to deflect to Chloe being the 'bro killer' and to 'friendzone' Warren. All she can say about boys is she finds some cute, but she never seems to go beyond that, almost as if she can't. I can speak from experience of being able to see men as cute or handsome but also experiencing discomfort at the idea of actually being liked back in that way, or realizing I was liked in that way. I also experienced discomfort when I would think about what intimacy with a man would involve and how uncomfortable that made me feel. I didn't experience this when thinking about women. I could picture intimacy, everything in detail with excitement and comfortability. I also want to make note of many of the fandom seeing Max as a demi lesbian, needing a close connection for romantic and sexual attraction. On top of the comphet, it's possible Max didn't realize her sexuality because she wasn't forming a close enough connection with any girls to feel that way about them. Demisexuality, which falls on the asexuality spectrum, differs from simply wanting to wait for a deep bond to form before having sex with someone; rather, it’s more akin to the experience of being asexual until that type of connection forms, at which point the sexual attraction extends only to that person. x This seems to fit Max, who had never kissed or dated or in fact, been at all interested in anyone until Chloe. Feelings had begun when they were tweens. Chloe: You look cute with your hair soaked in chemicals.

Max: Thanks, you would know... This little exchange at the pool echoes back old memories, of being 13 and 14 Max: Really cute, Chloe.

Chloe takes off the hat.

Chloe: You're not so bad yourself.

With a girl, with Chloe, it all seems to come naturally to Max, how to act, how to flirt, how to boldly go for a kiss when dared, or how she was the one, in the Bay end, to go for that last kiss, or to choose Chloe over everyone in the Bae end. With Chloe she can comfortably flirt back and forth in text or in person. Now Max can kiss Warren too. She as stated before, writes in her journal she wanted one last kiss from a boy she cared about if she was going to die. I think so much of the game is about Max exploring her sexuality. Chloe even encourages her to stop being afraid at the pool. She encourages her in the alternate reality too. Chloe: Oh, please. You can't be an artist unless you experience life... That includes boys, girls, whatever. I think if you say, kiss Chloe AND Warren for example, you have Max exploring herself with BOTH of them, and while this again could indicate bisexuality we must remember Chloe had sex with boys and realized she wasn't into them in the end.

Rewatching the Max and Warren kiss, Max says for luck, and the kiss is fast and quick, compared to the very long kiss she gives Chloe in the Bay ending. Her kiss dare with Chloe was short too - only because Chloe pulled away in shock, so we don't know how long she would have kissed Chloe if Chloe hadn't pulled back. If she doesn't kiss Chloe and does kiss Warren, Max is choosing to not explore her feelings for a girl but to explore them with a boy she cares about. One thing we do know for sure... she writes way more about the girl than she does the boy whatever your choices are. And she writes she realizes she loves the girl, for the boy she just writes she cares about him, not that she loves him.

Here's something else to think about. Max is an anxious person who becomes avoidant when she's uncomfortable or anxious, as she is with Chloe after the move and isn't there for her. In Before the Storm, while Life is Strange had said Max hadn't texted, Before the Storm Max did text back a little, but she was avoidant like she is with Warren, short responses, always saying she'll call or text later but doesn't. In the case of Chloe Max didn't know how to be there for her grieving friend after leaving her at the worst time, in the case of Warren it at times feels like Max is avoidant and slower to respond to him because she is uncomfortable knowing he has feelings for her, and she doesn't in the same way. It's not until episode 5 after going through the Dark Room, alternate realities and the storm to get to the diner does she kiss Warren for luck as she says, driven perhaps more from the emotion of everything she had just went through and as she put in her journal, just wanting to experience one kiss if she might fail to get back to Chloe and was going to die. Comparing the kiss dare with Chloe, where the emotion was coming from a place of flirting and swimming in the pool in their underwear and bras, and then falling asleep together side by side in bed, it felt like the way Max hurled herself at Chloe for that kiss was coming from a very different place than Max needing a kiss for luck. It felt like Max going for that kiss dare was from the buildup of electricity between them and her acting very naturally on it. You can feel the electricity in the air with her and Chloe, but not so much with her and Warren. Now let's switch to Chloe for a little bit. Chloe I think is an easy she's a lesbian character. Most of the fandom sees Chloe as a lesbian, and it's not hard to see why. Let me bring these up once more... Max: So... you never really told me if you had a serious boyfriend while I was away... Chloe: Not serious. Hella stupid, usually. I went through a "boy toy" phase. Among other things... Max: I can't see you with any of the guys around here... Chloe: Because you have a good eye. That's why I was so glad Rachel came along to rescue me. Max: Sounds like you totally crushed on Rachel. Chloe: You would have too. Smart, sexy and sassy... Like me, right?Max: Well, duh! Maybe Rachel would have fought over both of us. Chloe: You wish! Then again, maybe... you're a photographer and she wanted to be a model. Max: As Blackwell proves, boys are trouble. Chloe: And way fucking gross. As you'll discover soon enough. Max: Oh okay, Woman of the World. Please tell me what it's like to get that first magic kiss! Chloe: Sorry, sorry. Didn't mean to get you all worked up. I just don't think anybody is good enough for you... besides me. Chloe makes it very clear she is NOT into boys anymore to Max in these conversations. She also makes it clear she is into Max by saying she doesn't think anybody is good enough for Max but herself. Even when she's asking Max what bathroom she wants to go through to get to the pool she asks it as if she is asking way more than a simple question. Chloe: Boys or girls? Max: Girls, of course! Chloe: Girls? Ooh la-la...

vs Chloe: Boys or girls?

Max: Boys, of course!

Chloe: Figures. Perv. Let's also remember how Chloe reacts in Before the Storm at 16 when she almost walks into the boys changing tent. "Boys' changing tent. Thanks, but no thanks." Chloe from the way she asks and reacts to Max's response, was I think clearly trying in her way to figure Max out. She asks about boys and girls here and in the pool because she's trying to figure out if Max possibly could like girls or she only likes boys or likes both. Max giving the "boys of course' answer is something she'd expect from a girl who likes boys wanting to explore the boy's locker room (we the player know Max is also just nosy and wants to investigate it), but Max choosing girls over wanting to explore the boys has Chloe even more curious, and when Max can react with gross or deflection about boys in the pool... she is becoming more curious. Max: As long as you're there with me...

Chloe: Don't look so sad. I'm never leaving you...

Chloe: You look cute with your hair soaked in chemicals.

Max: Thanks, you would know...

And moments like this happening, all leads to the kiss in the bedroom with Max. Chloe: Stop second-guessing yourself, Max! Put this on and let your inner punk-rock girl come out! You can afford to take chances! Whenever and whatever you want to try... for example, I dare you to kiss me!

Max: What?

Chloe: I double dare you. Kiss me now. Chloe, now feeling more confident Max may like girls (and maybe her???), but not being totally sure, she dares Max to kiss her.

Chloe: Damn, you're hardcore, Max! Now I can text Warren and tell him he doesn't stand a chance... unless he's into girl-on-girl action.

Chloe returns to her bed.

Max: You are such a dork.

Max: (thinking) Oh man, that was priceless when I kissed Chloe. She didn't think I would... Chloe: You better not rewind and take that kiss back. You know I'm hotter than those Seattle art-holes, right? Chloe pulls back in sheer shock that not only does Max like girls, she wanted to kiss her. This excitement as we discussed above, leads her to text Warren about the kiss, as her way to say Max is mine, back off. Let me also share what is said if Max doesn't kiss Chloe.

Max: Sorry, not that easy. Chloe: Oh, like I am? Just admit that you already macked on me then used your rewind! Now I can text Warren that you're saving yourself all for him...

Chloe returns to her bed.

Max: I am so going to best unfriend you for that.

Max: (thinking) I love that Chloe is so fearless...

I think to me this is further example of your choice as the player being about not making Max act on her feelings, not being the one who decides if she has feelings or not. Max isn't uncomfortable at all, actually she admires how fearless Chloe is. As she wrote in her journal, I would have, but I didn't like being dared like it was some big deal. Maybe I am scared. Of what? I think I'm too young for marriage. And Chloe and I might kill each other. Max's feelings always exist for Chloe. And later, she writes, I kind of regretted not kissing her when she double dared me. Maybe if she had double dog dared me... the kiss she didn't give is on her mind a lot. "And you'd dare me to drive it like you dared me to kiss you..." But if you make Max brave enough to kiss Chloe, she is more bold about it.

Max: And you'd probably want me to kiss you again... Oh and how can we forget? Max's reaction to Chloe's phone wallpaper either being changed to her or kept to Chloe and Rachel! If Chloe puts Max on her phone wallpaper Max thinks, "Nice, Chloe put my pic on her phone.... I must have proved I was worthy again..." If Chloe keeps her phone with her and Rachel Max thinks, "I thought Chloe might put up a pic of me instead.... Can't compete with Rachel." Max's jealously of Rachel is something even Joyce notices.

Joyce: Max Caulfield, are you actually jealous of Rachel?

Max: Maybe. Rachel was so much cooler than me... Max when she sees the C and R bracelets That kinda hurts.... The CD "Rachel songs." I wonder if Chloe would ever make me a mixtape.

Max when she sees the photos of Chloe and Rachel They really were besties. That could have been me instead of Rachel... Max's jealously is note worthy because it isn't something we see toward Brooke's interest in Warren. While Max shows jealously towards Rachel, she isn't that interested in Brooke's interest in Warren. If Max really did have feelings for Warren, she should be just as jealous. But Max acts very indifferent much of the time, if anything trying to ignore the awkwardness of knowing Warren likes her and Brooke is mad about it, trying to act like she has no idea what Brooke's problem is. Brooke: I'm serious. Even meteorologists can't explain that snow. I bet Warren can. Did you talk to him yet? Max: No, not at all. He's my friend, not my mother. (or she will say I will later) Brooke: True. And Warren really loves to talk meteorology with me, since I'm one of the few who can talk back. Talk to you later, Max.

In conversations with Brooke, it feels like Max is trying to get it across she is just Warren's friend. She helps him with his experiment in class and tries to ignore Brooke's rude comments about him ignoring the experts. Max: I'm helping Warren with his latest experiment. Brooke: Oh. I guess he needed a neophyte assistant so he wouldn't be threatened. But you came to his rescue anyway.

Max: Apparently, it's my nature. Brooke: Yet Warren ignores the experts right in front of him. Not that he would ask me for help anyway...

Brooke: Ms. Grant finally gave up and let me fly her again. But you're going to the drive-in with Warren, so you don't have time to fly my drone.

Max: Really? I can't fly your drone because I'm going to see "Ape" movies with Warren?

Brooke: You are perceptive, Max. Now, excuse me. My drone needs me.

I do find it interesting Max doesn't say going on a date with Warren, but going to see Ape movies with Warren, suggesting to Max, as she wrote in her journal, she sees it as just a friend thing. Oh wait... I did say I would go to the drive-in with him. Hope he doesn't make a lame move on me... (Not that he would, egomaniac.) Warren and I do have a lot in common, but he's like a supercool geek brother... Anyway, I definitely need a movie escape.

To Max, this is just a movie escape, but to Brooke it's so much more than that. At the Vortex club party, if Max doesn't accept the invite Brooke: I will. He left already, but we're going to map out our drive-in date later. Warren wants to go to dinner first, so that'll be fun. Is that cool with you, Max?

Max: Yes, it's great. Brooke, I'm happy for you. And Warren. I'd like to see you happy instead of waiting.

Brooke: Thanks, Max. Though I feel selfish talking about a boy, considering Kate and the Arcadia Bay eco-meltdown... As we discussed previously, whether you kiss Chloe or not Max's feelings for Chloe are still written about and expressed. This should mean even if she turns down the movie date, she should be sad about Brooke going with Warren, but she's happy. I think almost relieved she doesn't have to worry about it anymore. If Max accepted the drive in

Max: Have you seen Warren tonight?

Brooke: Why? You're the one going out with him.

Max: Brooke, enough. I'm sorry Warren asked me to the movies, but you don't need to give me an attitude. I'd like to think I'm your friend.

Brooke: I know... I get salty when things don't go my way. I'm selfish, while you go on a roof to help save your friend Even here, Max vents her frustration at Brooke being mad Warren asked her to the movies. But she doesn't say much else. She is aware Warren likes her, as she proves when Chloe says

Chloe: Man, that guy is so fucking in love with you.

Max: I know...

She doesn't say she likes him back, is just aware he does and you can get the sense she doesn't know what in the world to do about that. His feelings for her have even been getting Brooke mad at her, and her classmates are all picking up on it too.

Max: That was so not cool. We need to plan, like, a tea shop tour of Portland.

Kate: Oh yes! And you could bring Warren along too... Noy boys allowed

Max: No boys allowed. Kate: You are funny, Max. And right. Warren

Max: What do you think of Warren? Kate: Oh, smart and silly... He's got such a good heart. And he's a cutie pie. You know he likes you... Max: I'm going to the drive-in with him, so we'll see... With everything that's going on, a date seems weird... Kate: No, you deserve that.

Max: Kate Marsh, matchmaker. I'm glad somebody is looking out for my love life. Kate: Even angels need angels, Max. Don't forget her journal to match this and revealing her true feelings Oh wait... I did say I would go to the drive-in with him. Hope he doesn't make a lame move on me... (Not that he would, egomaniac.) Warren and I do have a lot in common, but he's like a supercool geek brother... Anyway, I definitely need a movie escape.

turned down drive in Max: So I've heard. He asked me to go to the drive-in, but I turned him down. Kate: Awww, really? You guys would be a perfect couple... Oh wait. He did try and get me to go to the drive-in with him, and I refused. I'm not really in the mood this week, and I also don't want to lead him on...

Max never sounds that interested about the 'date' and when you compare her journal about her feelings for the drive in with Warren with her feelings for Chloe it's clear Max's mind is very much on someone else, whether Max kissed Chloe or not. In episode 3, Nathan throws this slur at her. Nathan: Right...Plus, you're an adult now. I can sue for dumb ass for libel. Thanks. Now fuck off, dyke! Max doesn't give a response to this so we don't know how she feels as she doesn't write about it either, but her confidence she's gained with Chloe seems to have helped her not be bothered if he thinks she likes girls. Max never seems to mind if people think she likes girls. But thinking she likes boys on the other hand...

Dana: Max, you're smart to be a loner here. Though Warren obviously likes hanging with you... he's a good guy

Max: He's a good guy. A geek like me.

Dana: You saw the files in his flash drive? Tons of crazy shit. Films I've never even heard of. And in a special folder called "Max"?

Max: Yeah, okay. I gotcha.

Dana: Are you blushing? Ha! Go ahead and grab the flash drive whenever...

what do you mean? Max: What do you mean?

Dana: Oh, nothing. When you opened the flash drive, didn't you see the special folder called "Max"?

Max: Yeah, okay. I gotcha.

Dana: Are you blushing? Ha! Go ahead and grab the flash drive whenever...

In each exchange, Max seems uncomfortable at what she is implying. She does blush - but I've also blushed when I've realized someone is telling me someone likes me I don't like that way. It makes you feel embarrassed and put on the spot. Especially when you're deep down confused as to why you don't like this boy who everything else thinks is perfect for you. Max still can't find a groove with boys. Is it because she just can't like them that way? That's how it feels. And don't forget Max writes about this exchange... We talked about Warren and Dana implied he likes me. Ew. Now, I can't ignore the fact Max can write Cu Te on his room slate, "Are you made of copper and tellurium because you're Cu Te" a nerdy little science pun. And thanks for leaving your mark on my door. I'll never erase it. 10/10 3:42 pm You better not. It's permanent! 10/10 3:42 pm

As she writes it she thinks, I can have a little fun with Warren for a change. He's the one who wants to "Go Ape"… x Her tone suggests it's more for him than for her, perhaps wanting to leave a nice message after seeing that Beta Phag Alert poster. And Max can again find him cute on the surface level. She knows she's supposed to like him like that, her classmates all think she should, and maybe she feels a little bad for her lack of attention since she's been busy with Chloe (and developing feelings for her) so she wants to leave him a nice message. I really do think this and the quick kiss with him in episode 5 were just Max exploring herself, because she does care for Warren as she said herself, but her feelings for a girl, for Chloe, go so much deeper than she can feel for him. Max's journal entries she wrote on the 7 and 8th expressed ew at the idea of someone thinking she liked Warren and writing how she hoped he didn't make a move on her at the drive in makes me think it's not likely her feelings for Warren would change so quickly when most of her time is spent with Chloe, but I think her becoming braver and bolder gave her the boldness to try and see what a kiss with a boy would feel like. But she never writes anything more than that. And I always go back to her reactions to the idea of boys liking her at the pool, versus her comfort at the idea of girls liking her that morning in Chloe's bedroom. I also think of her texts and journals about owing Warren. She says her kiss to him was for luck in her journal, maybe she also felt like she owed him something and felt like the kiss was giving that to him. Now let's talk about Before the Storm Chloe. In her journal, Chloe writes this about Elliot Similar to my class schedule, Eliot and I have history but no chemistry or drama. We hooked up a few times shortly after Dad died, but there wasn't really much to it. I think I was just bored. Or maybe a little lonely. Weird, I know. She also has this in her journal

PS Pris from Blade Runner popped into my head last time I rubbed one. I mean, at first I was thinking about Deckard and that smolder of his, but then Pris just totally stole the show. Probably nothing there. Think I just want her bangs.

She was starting to realize she didn't feel much for boys. She was able to see boys as surface level hot, which is why she first thought of Deckard and that smolder of his, led by her comphet, but it was Pris who as she says, stole the show as she rubbed one. Some may think bisexuality because she was first thinking of Deckard's smolder but again, comphet can make us lesbians focus on what we feel are we supposed too and then what we really like... girls... totally steals the show. While Before the Storm only shows her with Elliot, Life is Strange tells us from Joyce she had a bad boy phase, and Chloe calls it a boy toy phase, and she also tells Max that Rachel rescued her, suggesting Rachel had been her sexual awakening. We see this in Before the Storm too, as Chloe continues to understand who she really is, even if she can't say it out loud yet. Chloe: I mean...fuck. Are you actually going to make me say it? Rachel: Say what, exactly? Chloe: You know. Like, a friendship. But...more. Rachel: Ah... Chloe: I know. Weird, right? It's just, today was the best day I've had since...since my dad died. And when I almost ruined it just now, the way I ruin everything, it made me realize...whatever's going on between us is special. And later... Let's just say... she erased all doubts.

What, you need me to draw you a map? We made out. As awesome as you may imagine making out with Rachel Amber sounds, believe me, it was a bajillion times awesomer. Chloe sexual awakening! Speaking of sexually awakened, it's clear she would have awakened sooner if Max hadn't moved away and stopped talking to her, with journals like these... The worst part is that even though we haven't spoken in months, even though she habitually ignored my texts so much that I just stopped trying, even though I know, deep down, that she doesn't care about me anymore and that she probably has all new friends up in fucking Seattle... I still miss her. If she came back tomorrow and said "hey Chloe, want to dress up like pirates and be stupid together?", I would take her back in a heartbeat. In a heartbeat. Chloe also has a drawing of Max in her journal that says, put your thoughts into me - x and on that very same page with the picture she writes "Maybe one day, when you return home and apologize for having forgotten all about me and we kiss and make up, I'll show this to you and we can read it and laugh." There's also of course, the scene in Farewell mirroring the pool

Max: Really cute, Chloe.

Chloe takes off the hat.

Chloe: You're not so bad yourself.

The way Chloe and Max look at one another and talk to each other. The feelings they were feeling... they were close to discovering at 13 and 14 they were more than friends...

Chloe pulls Max into a hug and Max drops the ball.

Chloe: You're the frickin' best. That's all. Max: Damn right. About time you realized it.

Chloe: Tell anyone and I'll deny it.

Chloe bumps Max's shoulder with hers.

Max: You are one of a kind, Chloe Price.

Chloe: What?

Max: I'm lucky your my best friend, that's all.

Chloe: Damn right you are, you mushy weirdo! Did you find the amulet?

I think even their childhood predictions to each other are interesting. They each think they'll end up with boyfriends and we know how that ends for both of them - and yet they also correctly predict they'll be living together (Bae end). And then there's Chloe, if Max doesn't tell her about the move, trying to distract her, saying she wants to go to the beach at night with Max, something her parents did together, which would have been a romantic night at the beach and Chloe heard the story and wants the same kind of experience with Max, even if she doesn't herself realize that. Max: I bet that would be beautiful. One day I want to see glowing sand.

Chloe: Me too! My dad saw it once with my mom. He said their feet made blue florescent footprints!

Max: Oh, my god. I want to take a picture of that so bad.

Chloe: Oh, you have to. We can go every night to make sure we don't miss it.

Chloe: I'm so excited! We're gonna have the coolest pirate hangout ever, just like we always talked about.

Max: Yeah, and it would just be for us.

Chloe: Exactly. Our own little place.

But sadly, we know what happens next. Chloe's dad dies and Max moves, and torn apart both girls are left with the lingering feelings neither understood, not until they are reunited again five years later. Chloe has her sexual awakening with Rachel, but would later realize her first love was Max. Both girls would eventually understand the feelings they had for each other even as tweens. William: And always remember: the real treasure is—

Chloe: Friendship.

Max: Love. Max's journal 5 years later. I was surprised that it was like a physical pain in my heart. Is that the power of friendship... or love? I believe you're about to find out, Max Caulfield.

Back to Before the Storm and 16 year old Chloe. In the junkyard Chloe can find a porn magazine in episode 2 where a fully naked woman (boobs and vagina on full display x) is on the cover and Chloe thinks....

High intimacy with Rachel : "These magazines are so gross. Who would look at this? Okay, I'm still looking. But it's only because I'm so fixated by how weird it is." Low intimacy: "Pretty sure this isn't what Rachel meant when she talked about going to LA to be a model. Then again, it's probably not what this person meant, either." If you allow Chloe to explore her feelings for Rachel, just like if you let Max explore her feelings for Chloe, it helps Chloe come to a realization about herself. The reason why she can't feel chemistry for boys or why she feels so indifferent to Elliot or why she says there wasn't much to it when she had sex with Elliot and why Pris stole the show when she rubbed one out is because she isn't sexually attracted to boys and their bodies. You know I wonder if maybe there was a reason she liked punching dicks so much in the D&D games that even Mikey noticed, both from anger at David and Wells but also at her growing understanding of her sexuality and what she is not into. She is not into boys. She is not into dicks. She is into girls. She is very much attracted to girls. She couldn't take her eyes off that magazine of that naked woman. She is into girls. She's into everything about them... girls steal the show literally for Chloe Price. She and Max have parallel situations happening where they each have a boy very interested in them and are discovering who they are, with Chloe at 16 being in the midst of her sexual awakening as Max is starting her sexual awakening at 18. Chloe has Steph gently encouraging her about liking girls (and Chloe also had her to admire - another thing about Steph: she's into girls, and she doesn't give a shit what anyone else thinks about it) and Max has Chloe encouraging her to discover her sexuality too, and also Chloe showing she likes girls and doesn't care what anyone thinks, making Max comfortable to show her feelings in return and helping her confidence. Steph: I've been planning to make a move on Rachel, but not if you two were together.

Chloe: Make a move?

Steph: So, are you?

Chloe: Uh...

Steph: I mean, that's Rachel's business—or maybe yours and Rachel's business—but if you feel comfortable telling me... Chloe: You think we're...together? Steph: It looks to me like you've got a thing for her, and maybe she has a thing for you...and I wouldn't want to get in the way. Chloe: I'm...uh, I—I don't know. It's...it's confusing.

Steph: Yeah, I—I can imagine. You ever wanna talk to me, Chloe, you know you can, right? By the time Max meets Chloe again in 2013, Chloe's confidence in her sexuality is as strong as Steph's was here. Max at 18 had no sexual experience, dating experience, or even a first kiss. She is experiencing her own discovery of her sexuality in this game. Unlike Chloe's journal where she wrote about rubbing one out to a woman, Max's journal suggests she hasn't given much thought to her sexuality and only knows she hasn't been able to find a groove with boys for some reason. Max is so focused on her photography and her own little world it feels clear to me it wasn't until she reunited with Chloe that she began to experience feelings she had never felt before, except in the past with Chloe when she had been to young to realize what any of it meant, further indicating demi for her. I should also make note of the condom Max can find in Chloe's jacket pocket. Some of the fandom look at this and wonder if Chloe may actually be bisexual. I think that condom was likely a left over one from her 'boy toy' phase. Condoms can also be used by lesbians as dental dams during oral sex on the vagina, so there's that possibility too. Though I think it's far more likely Chloe just had lots of condoms during her Elliot/boy toy era and had some left over ones. One thing is for sure, she makes it very clear to Max in conversations she is OVER boys now. I do need to make note of something also that many have felt could indicate bisexuality in Max and Chloe. Max's journals To study photography under Mark Jefferson... SIGH. Insert hearts and flowers. He doesn't try to be too hip, just says what he thinks and expects us to as well. I think he's a genius. OMG I WANT TO MARRY HIM. Just joking. This one class is worth all the social dysfunction. Chloe's comments Chloe: Hot for teacher. Max: Gross! You are out of control. Chloe: Not yet. Just wait until the rager tonight... Max: Ugh, shut up. Chloe: Don't be jealous because Mark Jefferson thinks I'm cool... Max: I am so ignoring you.

I know these comments may again indicate bisexuality for some people, but for me I think of how as a lesbian myself we can see boys and men as cute/hot on a surface level way. We are not unaware of their attractiveness, it's just we have no interest or desire to go any further. It's interesting to me Max also used the words gross once again referring to a guy, though in this case it is also because he is a teacher. Max really admired Jefferson as a photographer, she writes he's been an inspiration for a long time, so having him teach at her school was very exciting for her, Jefferson is practically a celebrity in the Photography world and he's teaching at her school. Not only is Mark Jefferson one of the best photographers in the world, he's also my teacher. And one of the reasons I wanted to come to Blackwell. How often do you get to be mentored by one of your inspirations? I've always loved his deco and goth style and he's so versatile with all of his incredible print and advertising work Unlike her classmates, Max's fangirling seems to be coming from a place of admiration of an idol rather than her classmates, who seem to lust over him, such as Stella saying saying he was pretty hot for an older guy and if Victoria wasn't making a move on him, she would, Stella also comments she heard Rachel had sex with him (which we later learn was true from Rachel's letter). Max doesn't express feeling like this for Jefferson, even in her journal. As for Chloe, as discussed, has already made it clear before this how she feels about men, she is making an obvious observation I can acknowledge too - he IS hot for a teacher.

Chloe can see that. I think Chloe also wanted to tease Max, who she knew admired him and looked up to this teacher and loved seeing Max all flustered talking to a teacher she so admired - she also knew Max was flustered when she heard Max say Oh, hi, Mr. Jefferson. I'm okay. Um, and this is my...friend Chloe. Max hesitates a little to say friend, and we know from the journals we see Max write in the game she was aware they were starting to feel more than friends, so she even stumbles a little using the word friend, suggesting she had been close to considering saying girlfriend but stopped herself. Chloe: Me too. I'll be Max's date. You better dance with us at least once. Chloe also says this, so she was really trying to fluster Max, knowing the Max's date comment wasn't even really a joke with the feelings they had for each other but hadn't spoken out loud yet. So Chloe is having fun teasing Max a little with that and trying to embarrass her in front of the teacher she admires. We also need to discuss Max's Nightmare and one particular picture. First the picture. In episode 3, in Warren's locker, Max finds a picture of her and Warren. x The photo looks strange. Almost like he photoshopped himself into a picture of her. "Bet he developed that in Jefferson's class... but why?" In episode 1 he can say depending on your dialogue choices, Of course. I'd love to tweak one of your selfies with some cool graphics… And Max replies, "That might not suck. I'll let you know. She never lets him know to do it, and thus is a bit confused and uncomfortable sounding when she looks at the photo she finds in his locker.

Now Max's Nightmare. Max goes through so much in the game with no time to process, until she passes out and ends up trapped in her Nightmare. In the nightmare, you'll notice the light house is always in the distance, always a guide. Inside of her nightmare, she is chased and hounded only by men. Jefferson searches for her with a flashlight, soon joined by Frank and Nathan and David, men who have physically harmed her and those she loved or been aggressive and threatening to her. And another boy joins them. Warren. Warren walks the locker room and calls to her....

Warren: Max... Where are you? Max... Come out to play... Come out to play...! Warren: Ape, Ape, Ape... Who wants to "Go Ape"? Go Ape! Go Ape! Ape! Ape!!! Warren: You dig my wheels, Max? Get in the car, I'll take you for a ride... Get in the car! Warren: Brooke loves me, so why don’t you? Huh? What makes you so special? (determinant)Warren: Max, I know you're in here... You can run, but you can’t hide from your white knight... Give it up! Warren: What's up with you and that blue-haired loser? You need an alpha male, baby Warren: Did that get you hot when you saw me fuck up Nathan? I did. Warren: Max... imagine if we were in that Dark Room together... I have... Warren: I said, get in the car. Now. We'll cruise to the drive-in and you'll be close to me forever... and we'll... Go Ape, Ape, Ape!!!

Warren joining her nightmare is not insignificant. Max's Nightmare may be a very strange, scary and crumbling world but everything in her dream speaks to her very real fears and insecurities coming to life. We've talked about how avoidant Max can be with Warren, her journal entries expressing her discomfort on his feelings for her, her discomfort on that photoshopped photo she found. Nightmare Warren was a manifestation of her discomfort of the way he acted with her and his persistence. I want to next explore Max's Nightmare to help better understand the way her nightmare was Max's brain processing everything that had been happening to her and her feelings, so we can see how everything holds significance. The first part of her nightmare is in Jefferson's class, feeling trapped alone with him, forced to say horrible things against her will, like how he had her tied up against her will. All of his posters on his wall now have her on them, the models replaced with HER. x x To me highlighting how uncomfortable she is by his interest in her and the way men look at her. The next nightmare is trapped in the endless dorm hallway, where she meets Kate, who either is angry at her for not stopping her from jumping or angry at her for saving her because she didn't want to live. After she escapes this endless dorm hallway she ends up back in the school halls with everyone moving in reverse, with the doe guiding her through the bathroom door where she first saved Chloe. She then ends up in an art gallery being chased by Jefferson. Once she escapes him, she then ends up having to hide behind portraits from the searching light of Principal Wells making announcements such as saying she is wanted for the deaths of Chloe and Rachel, he even says "I regret to announce that one of your fellow classmates, Maxine Caulfield, has died under tragic circumstances that I promise to investigate after I get my drink on" showing how he hurt her too by the way he treated her when she walked out of the bathroom in episode 1 and was jumped on by him, whether she reports Nathan or not, she is treated like she did something wrong and doesn't feel like she can tell him what happened.

She then reaches the junkyard and is chased by Jefferson, Frank, Nathan, and David. Something very note worthy about the junkyard is how she is only safe from them in Chloe's junkyard sanctuary where she can have a moment of calm. "Max, sit down. You're taking a time-out no matter what. If this is my nightmare, let me have one sanctuary... Of course this is where Chloe... and Rachel... used to hide from the world... But I can't hide for long. Whatever reality I'm in... feels like a bad dream... Am I just not learning my lesson? Maybe your real lesson is to get out of this place... Just don't be afraid, Max. Let them be afraid of you." Soon she ends up in a maze of lockers, where she is once again chased by men, with Warren and Samuel joining them. But why? Starting with Samuel, him joining the dream may seem strange, until you consider the anxiety and distrust of men Max was experiencing. From Frank threatening her and Chloe, to David treating Chloe horribly (or possibly even hitting her) to Principal Wells not believing her or being willing to listen, to Nathan drugging Chloe and Kate, and Jefferson drugging her and Victoria and other girls, I think Samuel joining the dreams was a reflection of how Max was feeling distrustful of the men around her. She actually grows worried and concerned when she finds in Samuel's custodial room Rachel's photos and missing person posters and a silky scarf she knows doesn't belong to him. I think that's why he appears in her dream, as a manifestation of her distrust and anxiety of men after the events of the week. Now Warren, as I said, is also there in the nightmare for a reason. He is acting as a desperate lover, and I think Max felt that way about him in the game at times, judging by how she often ignored his texts or avoided him or wrote ew in her journal or how she sees him as a brother. She wasn't comfortable with his attraction to her, wasn't comfortable with the photo he appears to have photoshopped himself into. The dream version is obviously a more aggressive version of Warren, but it speaks to her inner fears about him and how uncomfortable she feels with his feelings for her. Perhaps because, she also isn't even into boys and is in the process of discovering that. In the nightmare, Max can also look into Warren's locker. And what she finds?

x She finds this. More photoshopping from Warren, with him photoshopping her face onto the bodies of women in sexy outfits taped all over his locker, with the words My Max written in his locker and a Max doll inside. You will also notice Max's selfie, the unedited version that Max finds in episode 3 in Warren's locker that he photoshopped her into. This is more indication on how uncomfortable Warren was making Max with his photoshopped photo she found and his behavior in general. It also feels like further fears of a lesbian uncomfortable with the male attraction and attention on her. She does not like it. She does not want it. To move forward with the dream, to further drive home the meaning put behind the things that happen in her dream, after Max escapes the men chasing her, she ends up sitting on the bench and ending up trapped in a snow globe as she watches her 13 year old self tear up the photo she used to save William. She then gets a text from William that says, "Hey Max, would you say hi to Chloe and Joyce? Don't forget to remind them that you let me die." The guilt of her failure to save William and letting him die again. She even gets a text from Joyce if she accepts Chloe's wish. "Max, we have surveillance video of you overdosing Chloe. You cannot escape now. There is no reality where you can hide now. Don't you dare underestimate me. You hear?

Max then ends up back in Mark Jefferson's dark room tied up, with him taking photos of her. Chloe is there too, and this time she's being quite mean to Max. But she's not being like Warren and acting creepy. Nightmare Chloe is voicing all of Max's insecurities in Chloe's voice.

Mr. Jefferson: I think you’d be perfect for my new photo series on retro-grunge... You have the same qualities that I loved in Rachel Amber... but not Max...

Chloe: Max is a fucking child...

Mr. Jefferson: Oh Christ, I know... and she never shuts up, does she?

Chloe: I’m so over her hipster bullshit.

Mr. Jefferson: I think everyone at Blackwell is over Max... Let’s prove it. Max kissed Chloe

Chloe: Booyah, Warren! I thought you were all over Max’s shit...

Warren: She's not all that... so who cares if she doesn't kiss me?

Chloe: You should have seen her make a move on me in my room... Hella lame.

Warren: Max should see me make a move on you... Come here...

Chloe kisses Warren. Max only kissed Warren

Chloe: Booyah, Warren! I thought you were all over Max’s shit...

Warren: Not after she kissed me... her breath was ass and no tongue...

Chloe: I hear that. I'm not into... nerds but you're pretty cute...

Warren: I'm not into Max, anyway. So let's bust a move...

Chloe kisses Warren. To note, Max very much looks like she gives Chloe tongue in their long kiss in Bay ending, unlike her very fast kiss with Warren. Having never kissed before until she does Chloe or Warren or both, she feels very insecure on if she is good at kissing.

Chloe: Holy shit, Warren! Max is trying to play us both!

Warren: I guess she's not as innocent as she acts...

Chloe: Not when she's trying to hook up with both of us...

Warren: I only want to go ape with you, Chloe... Come here...

Chloe: Booyah, Warren! I thought you were all over Max’s shit...

Warren: She's sure the hell not into me at all... who cares?

Chloe: I guess we're "not her type"... like Max has a fucking type?

Warren: But she does... She's into Mr. Jefferson... Now come here...

Chloe kisses Warren.

You'll notice whether Max kisses Chloe or not, this is all about Chloe flirting with a boy and taunting Max with what a loser she thinks she is, mirroring Max's own fears that she isn't cool or good enough for Chloe. She writes in her journal, I feel like a groupie when I talk to Chloe about our life experience... she has me so beat. I take pictures, she takes action. You might argue Warren was kissing Chloe too and that maybe she was experiencing some pain watching him flirt with others... but I don't think so. Max never admits to liking him back in the game. The most she says is in the alternate reality when Chloe asks if she's dating anyone at Blackwell. She says, "I was supposed to go out with this guy named Warren, but I don't think he's into me anymore..." or she says "This guy Warren asked me out, but I turned him down. Now he's with somebody else..." She doesn't say this boy I liked asked me out but now he's going with someone else, she just says she was 'supposed' to go out with him (because he asked about the drive in). With Chloe, she's straight up writing journals about seeing her as more than a friend. I don't think Max was experiencing pain and jealously because Warren was kissing Chloe, but because Chloe was kissing him. Her journal even confirms she wasn't upset about Warren kissing someone else, but upset Chloe was kissing someone other than her. Maybe that's why I hated watching Chloe being so cruel in the nightmare, calling me names and flirting with all those people... I was surprised that it was like a physical pain in my heart. Is that the power of friendship... or love? There is no mention of being in pain watching Warren kissing someone else.

Nathan: Goddamn, you are a sexy bitch! Why hang out with Max, huh? Chloe: Boredom. Plus she’s like my personal puppet. Nathan: I hear that. Do you... want to party? I got a drugstore in my room. Chloe: Oh shit! Look at Max spying on us... Take a fucking picture, bitch! Or take a selfie! Chloe stands on the couch in her underwear, dancing. Chloe: See, this is how you bust a move, Max... No mosh pit for you, shaka brah! Chloe: Damn, Victoria... You're a real woman... not a little girl like Max... Victoria: I fucking love your tats, Chloe. You're so hot. I can’t believe it took us so long to hook up... They begin to make out.

Chloe: Why did you get rewind powers? You don’t even know how to use them... Rachel’s dead and you’re still alive. Life is... so not fair. Chloe appears in front of Max and takes photos of her.

Chloe: I wish you would have never come back to Arcadia Bay... You’re the real storm. Chloe continues to voice Max's insecurities, she even voices Max's insecurities over being seen as a little girl. I always took this as Max insecure over her small chest, something smaller breasted girls often struggle with, making them almost feel like little girls. Nightmare Chloe is voicing every insecurity Max has that is making Max think Chloe wouldn't really want her. There is nothing like the sense of relief after waking up from a vivid nightmare. Despite all the terrible things that have been happening this past week, I felt so free and hopeful when I finally woke up. And my nightmare was so obvious... all my fears about being an artist, about my rewind power, and, of course, about my partner in crime and time, Chloe Price.

We've been through so much together and we might go through more, depending on how this all ends... either in Heaven or Hella... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Max's journal continues to confirm the nightmare was about her fears, her rewind power and all about Chloe. Now the dream changes again, with Max trapped in the Two Whale Diner's bathroom with all these numbers written all over the room. Max is scared there may be no escape. But there's one number that shows in the mirror she can see. 0311. Chloe's birthday. Just like Chloe remembered her birthday, Max's sub conscious made Chloe's birthdate the number to save her from the room she was trapped in. Max then walks through the Two Whales Diner as everyone begs for her to save them. She soon encounters herself, Alternate Max, who challenges Max's choices and decisions. Alternate Max: Holy shit, are you cereal? I'm you, dumbass. Or I'm one of many Maxes you've left behind...

Alternate Max: Oh, so you want help? Thought you could control everybody and everything, huh? Twist time around your fingers

Alternate Max: No, you only wanted to be popular. And once you got these amazing powers, your big plan was to trick people into thinking you give a rat's ass. Alternate Max: By telling people what they want to hear? You were just looking for a shortcut, because you can't make friends on your own. Alternate Max: Please, stop playing innocent. You're a goddamn hypocrite. You've left a trail of death and suffering behind you. Max: This has to be my destiny to save her... I wouldn't be trapped in here if I didn't believe that... Alternate Max: No kidding. Chloe trapped you with her drama. Guns, drugs, Rachel... Even stealing money from the handicapped fund. She's just using you, dude./Alternate Max: No kidding. Chloe trapped you with her drama... guns, drugs, Rachel... She's just using you, dude.

Alternate Max: Like, she even asked you to end her life and do what she couldn't do by herself.

Max: Chloe does a better job of guilt-tripping me than you do.

Alternate Max: Because you let her bully you. It's called "Stockholm Syndrome." But you didn't do that homework... so you'll have to learn the hard way. Like Rachel...

Max: Just shut up. You're not scaring me anymore.

Alternate Max: I'd be more worried about Chloe killing us than Jefferson... Alternate Max: Max, do you really think she has any feelings for us? You're just another puppet...

Alternate Max brings up some true insecurities on how Max used her power and the choices she made, but Max boldly challenges this Alternate Max. Max isn't afraid anymore. This twisted nightmare version of herself is questioning all of Max's choices and also tries to turn her on Chloe, trying to suggest Chloe bullies her. I feel the need to give my Before you say Chloe is a bad friend post another poke - this Alternate Max is the darkest parts of Max trying to break her and Chloe apart, and Max, stronger and braver than ever is fighting back. She isn't scared anymore. And guess who finally shows up in the dream? Chloe. Right at the moment Alternate Max is questioning if Chloe really has feelings for her.

Chloe: Dude, do not even fuck with her head! She knows what we went through together this week and you don't! There's no way you can break up our team! This is reality! Chloe comes in and tells Alternate Max off. She calls her out, calls her out for lying and trying to mess with Max's head. Her anger at this Alternate Max drives Alternate Max out, and Max ends up in the final part of the nightmare, walking through a world of all their frozen memories in time.

Max relives everything, talking in Chloe's truck upon reuniting, Chloe gifting her William's camera, Chloe dancing on her bed as Max takes a picture, them on the cliff together discussing how it feels like destiny they're together again, them together at the Two Whales Diner, the junkyard, Max worrying her powers might not last forever and Chloe promising they will, forever. Them calling each other their partners in time and crime at Blackwell, swimming at the pool, calling each other cute, Max waking up next to Chloe in bed for a photo and Chloe photo bombing her, Chloe's kiss dare, the discovery in Frank's RV, when she goes back in time to save William FOR Chloe, she and Chloe at the beach talking about the golden hour, she and Chloe looking back on childhood memories and Chloe requesting her final memory be with Max... Max's excitement returning to Chloe again, the dark room discovery, Chloe crying as she finds Rachel.

And then Chloe's voice, calling out to Max.

Chloe: Come on Max, we’re almost there! Please wake up! Max, can you hear me? Hang on, Max, we can make it! Listen to me! Max! We’re near the lighthouse! Wake up! Dammit, Max, don't let me down!

Chloe: Max, come on now! Don't worry... we'll be okay. It is Chloe who saves Max from the nightmare. Chloe is the lighthouse. She is the guiding light. When Max awakens, Chloe has gotten them to safety. Max's love of Chloe leads her out of the nightmare. And now that we have gone over the dream in detail, you can see how Warren's role in the nightmare was that role for a reason. Everything in the dream had meaning. Max came out of that dream realizing they were more than friends. Questioning if it was the power of friendship or love? I think Chloe Price and Max Caulfield are both lesbians. By the end Life is Strange Before the Storm, Chloe has figured herself out. She likes girls and girls only. Max is on the path to figuring herself out in Life is Strange. Max may be able to kiss Warren in the game, but Chloe also kissed boys and had sex with them before she realized herself. I understand not everyone may agree, I understand the bisexual representation many see with Max is important but I also think it's important to not ignore what the game shows us and take that into consideration. Going back to the Cliff, where Max says to Chloe Max: Fuck that! No... no way! You are my number one priority now. You are all that matters to me. All she is thinking about on that cliff is Chloe, not Warren, but Chloe. Her love for Chloe outshines him or anyone else in the town. You can't not notice it is only Chloe with Max as the storm comes toward the town. She didn't get Warren to safety, she got Chloe there, Chloe got her there. She says these things to Chloe on the beach. Max: Oh, you're alive! You're alive, oh... Both of us! I did so much to bring you back, Chloe... and it worked. It actually worked. You're with me again. All she is thinking about is Chloe. Max: Maybe I willed it subconsciously, or something. I always wanted my life to be special... an adventure... but not without you. And it didn't happen until I moved back here, so... without you, my powers wouldn't even exist. On the cliff, Chloe: You... You could use that photo to change everything right back to when you took that picture... All that would take is for me to... to... [Chloe holds her face in her hands]

Max: Fuck that! No... no way! You are my number one priority now. You are all that matters to me.

Chloe: I know. You proved that over and over again... even though I don't deserve it. I'm so selfish... not like my mom... Look what she had to give up and live through... and she did. She deserves so much more than to be killed by a storm in a fucking diner. Even my step... father deserves her alive. There's so many more people in Arcadia Bay who should live... way more than me...

Max: Don't say that... I won't trade you. Chloe: You're not trading me. Maybe you've just been delaying my real destiny... Look at how many times I've almost died or actually died around you. Look at what's happened in Arcadia Bay ever since you first saved me. I know I've been selfish, but for once I think I should accept my fate... our fate...

Max: Chloe...

Chloe: Max, you finally came back to me this week, and... you did nothing but show me your love and friendship. You made me smile and laugh, like I haven't done in years. Wherever I end up after this... in whatever reality... all those moments between us were real, and they'll always be ours. No matter what you choose, I know you'll make the right decision.

In the end, Max can let Chloe convince her the right thing to do is save everyone, but it is important to note it is Chloe who has to give Max the idea, as Max cannot let her mind go there with Chloe as she loves her to much. If she chooses to let Chloe die, she gives Chloe a long, long kiss goodbye, full of her love and feelings. If she chooses to save her, Chloe promises her she'll always be with her and Max says Forever, showing her love for Chloe and that she wants to be with her... forever.

Oh and I almost forget to mention this special detail During the storm, Max finds this x about October road trips and drive ins. Max thinks "If we can make it out of this, Chloe..." She isn't thinking about Warren, she's thinking about wanting to go on a road trip or drive in with Chloe. There are also lots of unused audio x that really make things clear like this one. Max during the interactive Chloe and Max museum path in her nightmare: "Oh, my Chloe... It feels like we've lived a thousand lives this week. I'd do anything just to wake up next to you... Maybe if I get to the lighthouse, this will all finally end.. x In February 2016, Michel Koch confirmed that Max and Chloe is the ultimate pairing during a Twitch stream with Luc Baghadoust. When interviewers asked about romance (i.e. Max and Chloe's relationship), he replied: "Chloe et Max ne marchent qu'ensemble", which means they "only walked together" (as also in romantically attached to each other) as in they are a great pair and can only function with each other.

Another point I want to make as I near the end of this post, that Max and Chloe's love interests are women (Max with Chloe, Chloe with Rachel and Max) and they both express at times disgust towards the opposite sex and their supposed loved interests (Warren and Elliot) that feels very lesbian in nature, in contrast to Sean and Alex who are bisexual, who have equal sexual attraction shown to both sexes, with Sean having Cassidy and Finn and Alex having Steph and Ryan and being equally attracted and comfortable with them, versus how Max and Chloe behave with Warren and Elliot. Their love for the women in their lives outshines the men they feel discomfort in, as Max's nightmare even explores. I think if Max and Chloe were actually bisexual, they wouldn't spend all their screen time only able to see boys as surface level cute (or hot as Chloe put Jefferson) and otherwise be repulsed by boys. Having played this game many times, closely paying attention to the scenes, the dialogue, the journals, the texts... I truly think it was the intent of the creators that Max and Chloe are lesbians. But I think they as of yet have not confirmed anything because they feel it is important to allow players to discover on their own what their sexuality is, by piecing together details they so carefully crafted into the story. I still hope one day they confirm lesbian to us. I understand the bi label is important for many for Max, but playing the game so many times... lesbian just feels more Max. And for those of us who have taken notice, we want more people to see what we see. Thank you for reading, feel free to share around or send to people you want to better understand why some of us view Max and Chloe as lesbians - though I think most agree Chloe is a lesbian, it's more Max that has everyone divided! This is a post I wanted to write for my Max blog to share my headcanons around Max being exclusively same sex attracted along with Chloe and for others who feel the same about them being lesbians to have a post that covers lots of details that can be shared or quoted for those who wanted others to understand better why so many call Max a lesbian too!

#lesbian #life is strange #pricefield #max caulfield #chloe price

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tackytigerfic · 6 months

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im very excited for the Wartime!AU. Its a trope that is not very common in the Drarry fandom - I noticed many other HP fics have quite a few prominent Voldemort wins AU.

Hello Anon, thanks so much for this ask. I'm really happy that you're excited, it still feels like a lovely shock to think that someone might be interested in anything I write. I don't believe I've read any Voldemort Wins AUs before—they tend to run long as far as I can see, and my reading habits run to shorter fics. Also, like you say, I don't think there are very many in Drarry, and I don't really read outside of the ship. And anyway, i can't read any at the moment because when I'm writing I try to avoid reading fics that deal with the same tropes. So I'm looking forward to diving into all the time travel/multiverse/wartime AUs I missed over the last two years! Writing an AU has meant that I needed to do quite a bit of world-building, plus because it's a multiverse fic and we meet Harry and Draco from another world, I've had to keep track of their timeline too. I am already dreading the editing process and wondering how I can possibly ask beta readers to dive into what might very well be an absolute shitshow of inconsistencies. But I'll worry about that when it's done! In the meantime, here's a little snippet of the first time we see Voldemort in this fic. We hear a lot about him, but we hardly ever meet him due to the circumstances of the fic. I'm really looking forward to writing the ending where (hopefully) he'll really come into his own.

CW for widescale attack on Muggles and mass deaths

“Well, that’s that then,” Percy said, and when he tried to raise his coffee to his mouth, his hand shook so that liquid sloshed over the rim of the cup. On the big screen at the top of the room, the Muggle news channel was playing out an endless scroll of horror.

“Enough,” Kingsley said, and he took the cup away from Percy, wiping the spill up with one of his sleeves. “You need sleep and food, in that order.” He looked around murderously at the rest of the Order, at every strained face in the room, as if daring anyone to argue.

Percy sighed, then very carefully, as though his body hurt, pushed his chair back and walked stiffly towards the door, Kingsley stalking alongside him, hand at Percy’s waist, robes swirling.

Harry stared back at the television channel, feeling unable to look away for long. They were still searching the rubble of the tube station for survivors, the newsreader said in her uninflected tone, but the death count was already almost double the previous record for a Tube disaster. Unimaginable, the newsreader said, but the trouble was that Harry could imagine it all too well, had travelled the Victoria line so many times, had run down the steps in Finsbury Park towards the platform, bumped shoulders with the crowds streaming onto the tube, held onto the blue metal poles as the train rattled on underground.

Now the Muggle PM was giving a speech, pale but composed, praising the emergency responses, lamenting the loss of life. A tragic accident.

“If only he knew,” Remus scoffed, then threw down the latest copy of the Prophet, smuggled out of wizarding London, already days old. On the front cover was the Muggle PM, looking slightly bemused, almost entirely unmoving, clearly believing he was posing for an ordinary camera, a sea of dark-suited aides out of focus behind him. Next to him stood Voldemort, looking satisfied, a thin smile curling broader and then receding again as Harry looked, an endless smug loop. He looked very different to how Harry remembered him. He looked ordinary, finally—not the same as he had at school, with the cloud of dark hair, the luminous eyes, the cool appraising stare. But he didn't look like he had when he first returned, either. He was no longer bald, the skin of his face no longer stretched tight over his skull. His eyes were a deep speculative brown, the edges crinkling slightly as he smiled. He looked tired, and very, very human.

“He’s done it then,” Ron said flatly. “He’s secured an alliance.”

#tacky's fth #drarry #asked and answered

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bomberqueen17 · 7 months

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i just got a slightly incoherent comment berating me for rating Fit For Pearls f/f and not calling it gen, but like, my guy, if you were looking for a gen fic you'd be disappointed with this too. It's a slowburn but it's uhh not gen. i guess this only applies if you read to the end! but given this commenter's evident reading comprehension issues, given all the tags and author's notes and whatnot on that fic right at the beginning, i don't think changing the tags would help. there's nothing wrong with the tags on that fic. it's not the story you wanted it to be but it's clearly fucking labeled. it's probably no consolation that i was also hoping for a different story than it wound up being. but there's really no way to get past all the tags and author's notes and the fucking wordcount of this fic and still honestly be surprised by what you find there, so I have absolutely no sympathy for the small handful now of entitled commenters who are mad that it's not a different story than it is.

I also wanted it to be a lot shorter and more direct and just a simple f/f story, but the draft I wrote that was just that sucked out loud, so I don't really have any regrets.

Also, it's not hard to peer through the bad faith bit of these comments and notice the screaming biphobia. Sorry, I do feel there's pretty good textual evidence in the books anyway for Ciri being bi and that's a thing I, also a bi, wanted to explore, so I've tagged for that and if it upsets you, you can fuck right along and read something with less bi cooties I guess. I never got my cootie shot and it's too late for me. Save yourselves.

Hilariously, the very first shitty comment I got on FFP when I started publishing it was a pair of bad-faith jerks who wanted me to reassure them that I wasn't going to overlook Ciri's "canon relationships with men" or somesuch phrasing, all of which in the books are hilariously noncon and gross, so if my spite meter were better-calibrated I would have made the story purely f/f. But unfortunately I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my bi little soul, and I'm not saying it's anything deep. (But I was struck by book!Ciri's wild curiosity-mixed-with-revulsion about sex with men, which like, I also was a bi who had my first sexual relationship with another girl and thought it was great but also was like But What Is In His Pants Tho, Is It Gross Or Do I Want To Touch It I Really Don't Know, so I super related to that and wanted to explore it.) And beyond that, for fic purposes, I have the same disappointing-to-some tendency very common in fandom where I see a vaguely man-shaped blorbo and want to chew him and shake him like a dog toy, so i've indulged myself in that here and that's just what it is.

Anyway. I'm not like, apologizing or whatever, I just am venting because I'm stuck on a train and have nothing better to do.

#my writing #about the author #wank sorta

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saturnskyline · 1 year

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hi. so i saw this gifset on the dash, and it's entirely too late for me to be awake doing this but i am now spiraling over kim's outfits. so anyway here goes nothing 👍

(below the cut is my descent into madness. you have been warned)

now when i saw these gifs i began musing in the tags, as one does, so here they are for context:

(feels truly unhinged to screenshot my own tags but oh well)

so once i started thinking i found it impossible to stop (as often is the case with this gay mafia business) and i decided to go through and look at each of kim's outfits. for science

now i know the fandom has looked at wardrobe stuff before, so it's very possible that someone has gone through this already. BUT! i'm already in way too deep here so i'm just gonna go ahead with this dfsdhgjsdf

kim's wardrobe is, to me at least, very interesting. you get a mix of things, depending on how he is presenting himself. for example:

(here we have wik, kim, and what seems to be something in between)

it's hard to differentiate between these styles at times, and i think that's purposeful bc kim appears to dart between personas: beloved singer, distant son, solo detective... the list goes on

so first things first! i was largely right about the jacket thing! in most every one of his outfits, he has some kind of jacket on. however, the first time we actually see him without a jacket is actually in this scene where he gifts chay with the guitar:

(hasty screenshot to prove my point and yet jeff is still doing the jeff thing. bless)

okay so i was wrong about that. i think the jacketless look is definitely intentional on his part – to help him seem unguarded, especially since he is giving a gift – but the first instance is still not the scene i thought it was. however!!! there is one thing i'm really excited about, and it's about the next thought i had in the tags...

every time kim wears white it relates to chay.

now you may be thinking, wren. is that really the case, or is this claim a bit of a stretch? and now i answer.... *gestures helplessly* some of this may be a stretch! but i can explain, and i will!

let's look at the instances of kim in white then, shall we?

this, to me, is a quintessential wik look. far more approachable than the full black leather, and even his typical sleuthing fits (although a lot of it is in his mannerisms tbh, remember that withering look he gave big?). now this one miiiight be a stretch... but to me it still fits my thesis bc i feel like kim dressed this way for chay on purpose so he would look more like one of his peers. just my two cents

first sleuthing scene where white is involved. here, kim is investigating porsche's (and therefore, chay's) parents, and he gets a call from chay, which he ignores. everything and nothing in this scene is about chay; he's not in it but he actually is. (now if you're thinking, wren, that doesn't make any sense... you are not the only one. idk what i'm talking about. let's carry on)

our boy in songwriting mode! worth noting that, with the combination of the shirt and the pants, there is more white going on here than usual. here, instead of avoiding chay, he actively remembers him and even looks a little.. fond? *gasp*

the confession scene :') this one is particularly interesting bc it's the same jacket kim wears when he's in full dark mafia mode (more on that later). like most instances of kim in white, it's a dark jacket with white peeking through, and this scene might be the best instance of that. he reaches back when chay offers his feelings, and opens the door to.. a relationship? idk but something with emotions

(jeffrey, sweetie, i'm so sorry about the screenshot quality. consider it retribution for your gender crimes?)

NOW. here is the look that made me start this deranged analysis in the first place. not only is it sans mafia jacket, but it is a full white shirt! he cuddles chay on the couch! they talk (?) about their feelings (?) ... well i mean, he's clearly having a hard time being vulnerable, but at least there is progress being made :)

(bad screenshot, bad moment. they r matching)

would you believe the next white-wearing instance is THIS MISERABLE SCENE. the jacket's back on, he's desperately trying to put up his guard again, and he blatantly lets chay think that he never had feelings for him (lies lies and more lies... we all hate it here :D)

look. i'm aware this is the biggest stretch yet bahaha. i mean my man is dressed for SCHOOL. however. the focus of this scene is him learning that chay didn't show for his audition, so it still fits in my book!! idc idc

(if you look at chay's hair here, this scene also has bisexual lighti- *gets shot*)

pretty self-explanatory, he shows up to the bar to fight chay's friends and confront chay. about as chay-related as you can get

finally! the Human Shirt™ !! about as on-the-nose as you can get, really. while wearing a white shirt that reads "human" and no jacket, kim has, demonstrably, his most human moment in the show: he breaks down crying over chay. cue jeff acting his heart out while his own song plays in the background (why don't you stayyyy~)

#10

it's a flashback scene, but we see kim watching chay in the studio. he's mostly guarded, but a little white comes through. good stuff

#11

putting these together bc they are two different moments but the same outfit. 1) kim learns that porsche and chay have disappeared, and 2) he contemplates the state of things after korn's "death". i put the family moment here too especially bc of what he tells kinn: "you don't have time to think about other stuff anymore", basically "eyes on the prize". now perhaps this only applies to his older brother, but in the case that we apply it to him.. we can't really be sure whether he is sticking to his personal main goal or breaking from his own advice. i suspect the former bc at this point, he seems to see chay as his main priority, despite his family's situation (again idk if this makes sense, but just. go with it. lol)

#12

dare i say? the sexiest example?? no mafia jacket, full white shirt, and yet, unlike the other white shirt instances, this one isn't about his emotional vulnerability with chay. no no, here he takes out six guys without much difficulty, in an attempt to protect chay (and then he leaves the bodies, but still! the love is there!)

(a gif for fun! worth pointing out that kim also acts to protect chay the first time he wears that white shirt... :0)

in conclusion... idk what i am talking about, and frankly, if you are still reading this post i am very impressed lol. but yay kim's clothes and motifs, fashion as a disarming tactic, and white as a color of vulnerability!

#i apologize this is so very unhinged #would you believe i did all this instead of working on my wip.#also i don't know anything about color theory tee hee #i was not joking about it being too late for this pls i am so tired #late night rant that became sort of meta?#much to think about #kim theerapanyakul #kimchay #kpts #kp meta #ramblings

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hornystiel · 1 month

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hiii!! offering my 2 cents on the subject of "old man". younger generations in general use it very loosely but it's without ill intent, rather it's coming from a perspective of "that man (dilf) is so hot i need them but i could never because they'd see me as a child so i gotta call them old instead". like they're out of my league but i'll blame it on the age difference you know?

and in destiel's case i believe it's affectionate, they're old compared to most queer couples represented and they're getting older together and it's hopeful to see that :)

~ a gen z mutual who's too shy to come off anon ly 🤍

hi! a literal wall of text ahead

okay i actually have a lot of thoughts about this topic and i really hope i won't sound rude but i just want to talk about it for a sec here. and below will be purely my own musings which probably won't coincide with a general fandom views on the matter and it's wider than this question and destiel but well

anyway

i totally get what you're saying about younger fans calling them old because they're too young for them but still hot etc etc. i know that's not some ill intent, clearly. however, what bothers me about the question of 'old' age in fandom spaces is this - for some 'old' starts somewhere around 35+ and they mean it (i wonder what they call a 50 yo? a corpse probably). and yeah of course for 16 yo 35 is twice their age but i wouldn't have even the slightest problem with it because i've been in fandom spaces since i was maybe 14 and stumbled upon people of different ages and backgrounds and we can all coexist quite fine. but what i see now (and maybe again, that's like a recurring generational thing, i don't know, i'm not that old and i wasn't in english spaces until i got at least 18-20 so) - those younger fans repeatedly saying 'you're 30 and in fandom? get out. go find some appropriate hobbies for your age group, like fishing hehe'. like it's fine to be horny over some dudes twice (or even more) your age, but people who in reality are not even that far from you, because usually it's 20 somethings who write such things - and it's a crime. you're suddenly gross. i wonder what those kids would do without all the stuff written, drawn and giffed by those who have a child on one hand, a full time job on the other, and their age appropriate hobbies in between. like when i was a tiny fan i was like 'holy shit that person somehow found a way to update that long ass sherlock fic while being neck deep in her family things and work i wanna be like them!" and it also gave me hope about the future of my fandom life. like age shouldn't matter. but now i see this shit, the whole 'more than 3 yo age difference is pedo' talk, 'adult creators shouldn't post anything because children can see' talk etc etc. and i know, of course, that that's the general internet censorship on the rise and neopuritanism is dancing tango with it but still.

what i'm saying - i do have a problem with younger generation using the term old very 'loosely' because they wield it as a double aged sword. you're either some hot dilf who can be forgiven for your shitty fandom takes because well you're hot (and i'm not talking about anyone in particular here rn) or you're a gross 30 smth in fandom space who shouldn't draw porn because teens can't click the block button

AS FOR DESTIEL

short answer - i don't like what the people who call them old add to their characters and lives when they do that.

long answer under the cut

all of that is what EYE don't like in most popular fandom hcs and i usually just scroll past the things i don't like, i don't want to start shit publicly (and because of what, takes?), but here you can read what i usually think when i see them.

first - if we're talking canon ages. 40 smth and this is dean's age at the end of the show - is NOT old. at all. i can't even call him that affectionately. because this is the tragedy of it all - he dies YOUNG. very fucking young, he didn't see any calm life, didn't pursue his dreams, didn't have a normal life and love and then he died. in a way, and i see some others think the same, calling him old is like 'welp it's not that bad, he lived long enough, seen shit'. but the thing is - he didn't? literally. so no, for me he's young, died young and it's fucking awful. not talking about cas here because well, billions years, old, young, he's everything (<3)

if we're talking about post canon fics where they settle. you can all burn me at the stake but sadly my spirit will just repeat the same shit - making them some kind of a wannabe hetero aging couple is not only boring as fuck, but also completely out of character for them?

what i usually see in the posts with 'old men <3' there

some variation of a white picket fence house

baby jack

dean being some kind of a soccer mom who bakes and argues with other moms

cas being more of a dad shaped thing who gardens and Doesn't Get It at the parents' meetings or somewhere equally boring and somehow still clueless about a lot of human shit

them creaking every part of their bodies (jesus my joints have been like this since i was 14, and my back is bad now when i'm only 30 where is my retirement pakige?)

probably forgetting smth but you get the gist. and, again, not saying that that's ALL i see with the old men posts and art etc (some hcs are wild and i LOVE them), but the majority? yeag, i've been permanently a destiel blogger for 4 years now, i've seen the popular stuff

doesn't all of that remind you of a typical heterosexual family on some conservative cable tv show? if not i'm happy for you, but i can't help but see how the roles are set in stone and i don't find it endearing at all. that's one reason. and also i'm a strong believer that a baby won't fix dean. jack won't fix shit and here's another stick to my pyre - i don't care about him at all and i think that dean especially should focus on himself and his own shit and his shit with cas if they settle together, not be thrown into the baby routine again. the fandom likes to remind everyone how dean raised sam and it's mostly true but don't you think for one goddamn second he would want/need to live for himself and not over obsess about bringing up another kid? sure he loves them, but if every person with dean's baggage were trusted with kids as a cure-al ...well. and again very hetero, 'you should have a child, that'll fix your hysteria!' i'll even say, very real life stuff, just not the one i want to see here.

another reason is this - they are freaks.

they are assholes, freaks, serial killers, undead creatures, bad people...who are very much in love and very soft with each other and their family but they are still freaks. and i don't understand how them getting old will so fundamentally change so many aspects of their characters that they become typical suburban mom and dad combo. maybe i sound like a person who doesn't want them to be happy, or who doesn't get the 'it shows that their life is finally calm and they can pursue Normal Hobbies and Raise Kids and Build a Farm (idk how that is a calm place have you ever been on a farm with animals that you should watch and take care and kill if needed. another talk for another time) and To Love is to be Changed' etc etc etc. believe me i get it all perfectly, just not for them. if it tickles your pickle, by all means. what tickles mine is cas getting the weirdest (and often dangerous) hobbies (and this is why i got him driving a motorcycle, boxing and skydiving in my old men cheating fic) and he's an impatient guy so i don't think he'd love gardening really, he'd be mad at the plants and kill them or grow them as fast as his grace would allow (yes i'm also against human all the way cas, baby we're getting a bingo here). and dean of course should have ties with his community and i've already talked about this but i see how they are out of active hunting, but still help those who are still in it (if the supernatural isn't wiped completely and i don't see why it should be), maybe they always have a place in their home for those who come to regroup or just to chat or smth. and dean is an overprotective and micromanaging asshole so he would want to still have the gist of it all (and cas would want to unwind by killing some things from time to time)...and they still sleep in the same bed, eat the food they cook together, wear matching tatts maybe as a wedding gift to each other, and have dogs, cats and whatnot.

what i want to say - i don't get why the weird and the sweet can't coexist. why should they lose all of their insane bits. they loved each other WITH them (cursed or not remember) why should they change so drastically to fit the 'happily ever after' narrative.

anyway i can probably write a lot more but that's a long ass grumbling as it is.

sorry your question became the starting point for this rent i genuinely hope i didn't offend you and if you finished reading all of this woah you are a hero <3

#destiel #destiel hc #deancas #deancas hc #spn hc #idk how to tag this so whatever #anons <3 #asks #fandom

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inevitably-ineffable-husbands · 10 months

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I'm sorry, people didn't like this season of GO??! Are they okay?? I don't have twitter anymore and i only saw good stuff here in tumblr.. sure, there is angst and we can say that the season ends with a cliffhanger, but NOT liking it??! I adored this season!! We already know that there will be something else from Neil (on amazon or written down somewhere), season 2 is always have been a bridge to what Neil and Terry talked about together.. i don't understand people, i'm kinda glad to not being on Twitter.. i hope Neil will receive only praise here on Tumblr..

Hey Nonny!

Ahhhh yeah... I've seen people say it was queerbaiting, and that Azzie is "the worst now for being an asshole and rejecting Crowley" (was one tweet I stumbled upon), not realizing that Aziraphale's unfailing ability to only see the good in people is what got him in this predicament.

I think, though, the fears are ABSOLUTELY founded, especially if you've been part of either the Supernatural OR the Sherlock Fandoms and what ended up happening in those endgames.

Here's something I was really blind to when I was deep in the Sherlock fandom before S4 came out: Mofftiss TOLD US countless times, looking back on it, that Johnlock wasn't going to happen, and we thought they were lying, which, TO BE FAIR (and I still believe they doubled down on lying during S3), is something that was hard to believe given the content and subtext of S3 and TAB. Turns out that it was true. But Gaiman has presented scenarios for A/C for their end numerous times, enough scenarios that it COULD be probable doubt in the truth of his statements that Crowley and Aziraphale end up together by the end, but he's also a liar? It's weird to me.

I dunno, I'm not going to get THAT deep into a show ever again, but for me the difference is that I believe him wholeheartedly that he and Pratchett had planned out the entire AziraCrow arc. He clearly loves and respects his old friend, and genuinely seems to want to do right by him.

AND S2 ended in a way that it REALLY feels like there is more but if it doesn't get renewed, while not a satisfying conclusion, it's still a conclusion, and one that we know Neil ISN'T happy if it ends where it did.

That's the difference for me, honestly. Sherlock S4 left us with no cliffhanger and no sense to be made after a 4 season buildup to something that felt empty. This one absolutely has the promise of more. The track record he has with his shows is hopeful to me.

I might be biased because I have loved Neil Gaiman's writing since I was 15. That, and Gaiman isn't shy about putting queer rep in his shows and stories, so... yeah. Anyway.

I think as more and more people rewatch the season and the metas start coming out, I think we will see just how monumental this season was for their relationship, and it was NEEDED because they were sort of STUCK in a limbo.

This, to me, is very similar to OFMD S1's ending. We're gonna be satisfied in GO S3, I have faith in that. But I will NEVER condemn anyone for not having that faith either, BECAUSE of the experience I had in the Sherlock fandom. "Need to see it to believe it" is fine too. :)

#steph replies #my thoughts #neil gaiman #good omens s2 #aziraphale and crowley's relationship arc

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tavyliasin · 3 months

Text

Tagging, Censorship and Consent in Fandom

Hello darlings~ I'm back at it again with the essayposting - blame the creative block for that, but as always I'm neck deep in Fandom which is exactly where I wish to be anyway~ Now, today's essay is going to mention potentially triggering topics by name, however will not be going into great detail on any of them. If you feel you are in a place within yourself where you might not be comfortable encountering some terms and topics, please feel free to turn back now and I hope to see you next time instead. For the rest of us...

How To Tag Your Content and Engage With Creative Fandom Safely - A Serious Essay Again with TavyliaSin (And how to respect your readers/viewers) ((Consent is important and this is how we do it)) (((And it's always good to keep learning every day to keep each other safe)))

So again, there will be heavier topic mentions from here, and I welcome all points of view to the table. We're going to cover boundaries, safety, and this will be all ADULT CONTENT so 18+ ONLY please and thank you darlings~ Subheaders follow of course~

--- ---

What Are Tags And Why Should We Care?

This is the easy one here. Tags are the markers on the map, the signposts on the gate, the labels that tell us what is in the tin. Perhaps it is best to think of them like food labels - sometimes people have allergies or intolerances to ingredients. Often, a dish is clearly not going to be suitable - one doesn't order the Nut Roast with a nut allergy, after all - but other times there are unexpected ingredients that might cause an unintended reaction. The exact same applies to content, whether it is angst, dead dove, kink, or really any number of topics that can be difficult for some to handle. We all have our own "food allergies" - there may be some we can never "eat", and others that we can stomach if we prepare first. In both cases we need those labels to know before we dive in. And just to be clear here, I'm not talking about just mild discomfort. Encountering certain topics can put people into severe PTSD episodes that can take days or even weeks to fully recover from. A huge number of us unfortunately live through life events that could be described as traumatic, and whilst we should not place the responsibility of handling our problems on the shoulders of others, we should also be respectful of how content we create and share can affect those with life experiences different to our own.

Boundaries And Safety

We need to extend this to our online interactions with other creators and fandom friends too - express your own boundaries when you need to, seek help if they are crossed with poor intention, and take care to listen to the boundaries of those around you. And whilst I shan't be touching on the topic heavily, this also extends to those in the more public eye. Send and tag only content that is explicitly welcomed, respect boundaries, and help to keep all of our communities happier for it. Additionally, the obvious one too - under 18s should not be interacting with NSFW content, nor should NSFW creators be knowingly interacting with under 18s. This is for the safety not only of the underage people, but the adult creators too. Whilst we can rationalise that most of us encountered inappropriate content for our age, if we are found to be knowingly allowing or sharing it towards those who are underage then we are at a very real risk of landing on offender registers. Use a reasonable amount of care, and seriously any minors still here, first you should not be, and secondly if you have any respect for the NSFW creators please never interact with us until you are over 18.

Alright, So What Should Be Tagged and How?

There are a lot of content types and tags out there. Largely you can put them into 3 Categories: 1. Violence 2. Sexual/Kink 3. Misc Yes I know misc is a bit of a catch-all, but the first two are the most common at least.

The lists I use in the House of Hopeful Sinners Discord Server are as follows - though it should be noted I am adding to and refining these as we go along, either with things that are requested or those that I realise I have missed. There are likely far more comprehensive lists, and AO3 has a lot of suggested tags to use too. My rule on Discord is that all of these topics are permitted but must be spoiler covered and tagged appropriately (I'll cover a section on Discord specifically later). For some of these topics, we have threads that allow people to discuss them in a creative context in a space separated from the main conversation channels, so people can engage and indulge in the content without those who are uncomfortable being exposed to it.

Violent Content

NonCon

Trauma

Death

Severe Injury

Injury Detail

Blood

Torture

Manipulation

Choking

Dead Dove

Needles

Knives

Guns

Ascended Astarion (positive context/romantic)

Sexual Content

DubCon

CNC (Consensual NonCon)

Spanking

Somnophilia (One person is asleep at the start or throughout)

Breeding

BDSM

Wax Play

Pain Play

Breath Control

Bondage

Pet Play

Urine Fetish

Scat

Omegaverse

Knotting

Wild Shape

Ascended Astarion (sexual)

Age Difference

Size Difference

Predator/Prey

Others

Pregnancy/Fertility

Traumatic Pasts

Medical Procedures

Sickness/Emetophobia

Animal Death

Grief/Loss

PTSD/Trauma

That's A Lot Of Tags - Won't It Put People Off?

Well, loves, this is the key. By having the tags there, people can choose to engage or not. For every item on that list, there will be some people who want to avoid that content - and that's fine, you shouldn't want to expose them to it against their will! But there will also be those people who love that content! For example, Breeding is something I'd always want to avoid. I don't want to encounter it in fic or art. But there are lots of people who love that kink, which is great! When it's tagged, I can skip the content, and those who enjoy it can flock to it - everyone wins here!

Should Some Kinks Always Be Censored Or Banned

Time for the tricky nuance part, darlings, but it does need to be said. I do not believe that there are many topics that should be censored or banned entirely in art and fiction for one very simple reason, which I will cover in a lot more detail in a future essay:

Everyone deals with their own traumatic experiences in different ways. Whilst some people may need to avoid anything close to certain topics, others are able to process their pain and heal from it by creating or engaging with fictional versions of that topic.

Writing and art are both things where the viewer/reader has control over the situation. Not in that they can change it, but they can step away at any time. They can stop reading/looking and never go back to it. The situation is, in that way, safe if they are prepared before going in to it. Although a trauma trigger might cause some similar feelings in some people to the traumatic memory/experience, this is not universal. It is not for any one person to dictate the ways in which any other heals or copes with their own scars. It may be similar for a writer or artist, being able to explore and process their feelings. So no, I do not condone censoring anything but the most extreme/obvious illegal topics, which I'd prefer not to mention for my own peace of mind.

As long as works are tagged, and spoiler covers used to hide the content from people until/unless they choose to engage with it, everyone should be allowed to create and consume the media they choose. (The obvious caveat of course being "so long as none are harmed in the making of it", but I should think all of you would know that by this point in the essay)

What Do I Do If Something Isn't Tagged?

Chances are that writers miss tags sometimes, and not intentionally either. Try to let them know in a comment, or if you are uncomfortable engaging then ask someone to speak on your behalf (I will happily provide this service just DM me the link). In cases of Discord or other moderated spaces, speak with those moderators about anything that's troubling you.

If you've been alerted to a missed tag in your own work, add it in right away. It might help to ask Beta Readers to list any tags independently of the ones you have in mind before posting, so you can cross check things over.

How Can I Hide Tagged Content?

AO3 - You can't hide tagged content on AO3, but the tags are listed with every work. You might want to use the summary or pre-work notes if there is particular content you feel needs to be added. As you can see here, I put more in the summary as well as in the tags.

--- Tumblr - List your CWs in the top of your post, and then use the "Read More" marker to hide the cut content.

So you can see the actual content is below the line, in each case, which is also helpful to prevent post previews from being too long and gives you more control over Tumblr formatting anyway. For images, you may well need to make use of the community labels too, though I have been informed writing is less important for this as it doesn't show in post previews.

Discord - Spoiler Tagging is your real friend in Discord. Super easy to use, and hides text and images until clicked.

For text, using the || either side of the text will hide it, and for images you can click the eye symbol to spoiler it. You can also do this from mobile by long pressing the image preview to bring up the menu to spoiler. Twitter - Click on the edit then select the flag menu.

Unfortunately you can't hide text on Twitter, so use caution there, or use threads potentially to nest the warned content in the replies. You may also wish to have a separate account for 18+ content if you have SFW content on your account too, or use things like the protected feature so only people who you allow can see your posts.

Is That All?

For now, darlings, I believe we have covered almost everything, but the floor is open in comments to add anything else you feel is important to discuss.

At the end of the day, engaging in fiction and art that contains potentially sensitive subject matter is all about that informed consent. The creator can make something and ask if someone wishes to see it, the viewer/reader then makes their decision if they wish to or not. Our job as creators is to tag our works so people know what is safe for them to engage with. Our job as consumers is to appreciate the work and know that not every work will cater to our specific tastes.

So really loves I'm telling you to go out and revel in how we have so much variety that we really can filter by what we do and don't want to see, and that we will also likely have readers/viewers for everything we are inspired to create.

Let's not have fandom in-fighting or dictating who should be allowed to create what - there are precious few cases in which those fights are worth starting. Be passionate about what you love, skip the things you don't~ Oh and if you do appreciate my philosophies and guidelines on these topics, it is my pleasure to inform you that my personal server is open and welcoming to likeminded people who are 18+. You'll find more details in This Tumblr Post Here

#fanfic #consent #tagging your fan works #fandom essay #content warnings #trigger warnings #discussions that need to be had sometimes #keeping fan communities safe and happy for everyone

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the-everqueen · 4 months

Note

“Rose and the Corinthian are both people who need care, in different but complimentary ways, and i think that's part of what fascinates me about pairing them.”

I would say this ask is more of a “Thoughts on Corirose” one, based on your excellent quote/response here from LA Guard Dog part 1 👀

i do not remember saying this, which is funny to me because looking back at my comment replies on that fic, i was clearly burned out from final year of grad school. i'm way more loquacious now that my brain isn't running on fumes and spite. but i DO remember how much i appreciated each comment; those ao3 notifications in my inbox were little sparks of delight amid rejection emails and, later, a wave of onboarding paperwork.

anyways i stand by past me's words. i feel like fandom downplays how much Rose has lost: she's a young adult from a broken home, her mom died and left her with limited material resources to start her own life, she met Unity and then almost immediately lost her, she got her brother back but only after he's been through hell, and now she's his only living guardian. she's never really had a childhood. so it makes sense, to me, that deep down she'd really want to be cared for. she had to be The Responsible One with Lyta, with Jed, with the Endless. when is someone going to watch out for her? and yeah, the implication at the end of s1 is that she has this whole found family who are invested in her, but caring about someone is different from caring for them. also accepting care from people you feel have already given you a lot can be difficult when you're used to being self-sufficient and circumstances have taught you that the only person you can really trust to stick around is yourself. i skip ahead to post-comix in LA guard dog, but even with some distance from the events of the Doll's House arc, she's still a mid-20s woman in a parental role for a traumatized preteen. that's a lot for someone who isn't also a daughter of the Endless and the only remaining adult of her human bloodline.

enter the Corinthian. he's useful for Rose in a few ways: he can't die, he can shoulder some of the responsibilities involved with raising a kid (at very least the stuff that takes minimal skill but maximum brain space, like school schedules and chores and packing lunch). also he's an utter hedonist, which is great for getting Rose acclimated to the idea of having things she likes rather than just what she needs. look, he wanted a fancy coffee so he got her this fancy floral pastry. extrapolating from the comix (including the dreaming run, but i'm cherry picking there), he's very much a person who shows feeling through action, even when that's at direct contradiction with his words. and that's great for Rose, who i imagine has had a lot of people say nice things to her and then utterly fail to show up for her in the ways that matter.

i'm talking about him like he's a tool, which admittedly is how Dream still conceptualizes him to some degree in this au. but he's aware this time around that's not what the Corinthian needs, hence giving him to Rose. i don't know that Rose can think of the Corinthian as an object, based on her experiences and who she is as a person. Rose imagines possibilities that Morpheus could not. so her idea of care for a Nightmare looks different, too, and the crux of the LA guard fic pt. 2 is the question "is that enough?" idk! but i think it matters to the Corinthian. there's a moment in the dreaming comix, during Coco's Year As A Real Boy, where he muses that his bf Sila has become more than a distraction to him--i think someone seeing the Corinthian as a person, beyond his function as a mirror (aka what he can do for/to them), is the realization of a story he's been telling himself for a long time. about him and the Dreaming, about him and Dream.

tl;dr: Coco and Rose are both people who have been positioned as non-subjects in their respective worlds and that means they're both weirdly able to affirm each other's subjectivity.

#ask games #violetoftheendless #sandman #cocorose #rose walker/the corinthian #SO many thoughts on ''thingness'' in relation to my fave sandman characters and how they grapple for agency

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zazter-den · 3 months

Note

i almost sent this on anon bc i’m not used to sharing this kind of filth for this fandom. then i realized you’d probably know it was me anyways 💀 so i’m being brave. 😔

hi love! still thinking about oral fixation with hythemet. sure a spitroast could be cool but

i totally see emet-selch being the type to shove a couple fingers in your mouth and press your tongue down, make you gag on them by pushing his hand in further while he’s taking you from behind. hyth just grins and watches, maybe strokes himself a bit. but they’re both entertained by how pretty and pathetic your voice sounds in tandem with the sloppy sounds of your [🫣].

sry if it’s a bit much. i’ve had a full day for this to rot lmao.

Oh no, bring on the filth! I love hearing what's plaguing your mind, esp when it comes to ffxiv! (۶•̀ᴗ•́)۶ The kudzu keeps growing in my mind lmao (Context: Part 1, Part 2) I need to replay Endwalker so I can write Hyth CW: Dubcon, Public Sex, Freeuse, Gagging

Emet knows exactly what he's doing, asking Hythlodaeus with a sneer if he'd like to join the two of you, when the lilac haired fraternity brother has a class in less than half an hour. He continues to keep a frustratingly precise pace, keeping you on the very edge for well over an hour. Deep punishing strokes, that seem to get maddingly slower the closer to cumming you get, before teasing you back up. "Is this your new pet?" Hyth can't turn down a chance to spin his friend up a little. Deciding to join their little corner by the fire, instead of hurrying across campus just yet. "Tell me, what's your name princess?" Clearly him talking to you only irks Emet further. Because the moment you open your mouth to stutter an answer in your fucked out haze- his manicured nails are pressing against the back of your tongue, pulling the loudest and possibly the most obscene noise you've ever heard from your throat. "Don't you have someplace to be?" Emet glowers.

It's the exact opposite of a deterrent to Hythlodaeus, he only strokes himself harder in front of your face as your eyes go blank with Emet's renewed attention to your oversensitive clit. the crackling of the fire couldn't hide the sound of you gagging on your new owner's fingers or the squelching noises under the table anymore. "I have just enough time for this" Hythlodaeus said with a ragged hitch in his voice, his fast fingers working his cock faster in front of your blank gaze. "Oh no you don't" Emet hisses at his friend, "I'm not cleaning up your mess." Emet slick fingertips withdrew from your lips, and dug into your cheeks. Your jaw dropping just in time for Hythlodaeus' first spurts of cum to land on your aching tongue.

#have a small treat since you were so brave #zaz answers #zaz drabbles #minors dni #cw yandere #cw dubcon #cw gagging

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charcubed · 1 year

Note

A lot of people refer to Cas as "gay," which I think is awesome and everything. But I personally always considered him more as "queer" for a number of reasons, such as:

angel genders and vessels are very fluid. Would he still be considered "gay" if he were in a female vessel, and in love with Dean? Also, there are several times in the series where Cas appears to be attracted to women (some ppl don't consider these moments valid for Reasons™ which is fine. But I do.) He also seems, in my opinion, to only be romantically interested in Dean, and I think this would be true if Dean were female. So that would make Cas closer to demi.

Point is, I recently saw a post on sm that was like "reminder: Cas is GAY. He's not bi, pan, or unlabeled, he's gay and that's not negotiable."

I consider myself queer and a huge Cas fan, so it was weird to see my interpretation of a character I know really well and relate to just be invalidated like that.

And I just kind of wanted you opinion, cuz I know like in Dean's case, seeing him as anything other than bi is pretty clearly against canon.

But is the same true for Cas? Is it wrong to see him as an umbrella "queer?" I know Misha calls him gay, which I love and respect, but I don't really let my interpretations be dictated by actor opinions. I feel like canon supports a much more fluid interpretation of Cas, but I'm just wondering if I'm wrong for that, in terms of what canon supports.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Thanks for your thoughts in this fandom I love them

Hi!! Thank you for the nice words and for wanting to know my thoughts on this. I appreciate you :)

Sorry it took me over a week to finish this. I kind of started it, realized it was probably gonna be longer than I’d expected, and then added to it in pieces when off work so as not to half-ass it.

Also, I want you to know that I think you absolutely rock for this message. The fact that you have a strong personal interpretation or strong feelings about what your view of Cas' sexuality means to you, while being open to hearing arguments for what canon supports, is exactly the kind of nuance too many people in fandom lack. Huge fuckin shout out to you, anon, because this takes both guts and brain cells!

I have two primary threads of thought I'm going to address here, as well as how they criss-cross:

I agree that Cas' canon sexuality is a slightly different topic than Dean's canon sexuality. Dean's bisexuality is not unclear/unambiguous, and there's no wiggle room there; he's frequently attracted to women, he's frequently attracted to men, there's bi lighting, it's all not rocket science. Cas is a bit more ~ambiguously queer~, so advocating for fandom maintaining a unanimous hard stance on his canon sexuality is... a little trickier. In that vein, the "reminder" post you mentioned seeing feels too intense in my opinion for the nature of this particular conversation/topic.

That being said: from an analytical standpoint, I do think the strongest argument to be made based on canon is that Cas is gay and demi.

Since you seem open to it and asked for my thoughts overall, I'm gonna break down point 2 before circling back to point 1. Quick reminder/disclaimer that I'm not trying to invalidate you or your personal connection to Cas with anything I'm about to say, so please keep that in mind <3

You mentioned how some people don't consider Cas' moments of being attracted to women as ~being valid~ and said you disagree. That's fair! At the same time... in a nuanced fashion, that's where I land on it. I also think the show took care to ultimately build to and portray a full picture with all of that factored in, and to talk about that I kinda gotta go into detail here, because it's one part of a bigger piece. I’m not trying to turn this into a comprehensive meta deep dive, so I’m going to talk about this in a sort of summarized way but not go too far into breaking down any one point or analyzing any one scene. Hope that’s cool.

Let’s look at Cas’ biggest “moments,” as it were, with women. Or the ones I would guess people intend to reference.

First up: there’s Meg. We’ve got the “pizza man" season 6 kiss, the season 7 arc of Meg watching over Cas during his mental break, and season 8 when Meg sacrifices herself.

The season 6 "pizza man" kiss, to me, really plays into the overall mood of Cas' curiosity as he explores and tries to understand human behavior. He watched porn and was intrigued/confused/aroused, Meg kissed him partially to get at his angel blade (not a euphemism lmao), and then his curiosity kicked in so he kissed her more thoroughly because the opportunity was there. Those scenes are all connected, and he doesn’t have much of a reaction after the kiss. Then, season 7 is a whole suitcase to unpack, but… the bottom line there is that Meg treated Cas with decency when he was vulnerable in every sense of the word. And then in season 8, Cas undeniably had a fondness for Meg by the end, and they were friends... but I don't read it as him having an attraction to her or romantic feelings for her. I do not mean this as shade or hate to anyone who ships them, but my reading on that dynamic overall is that I do think Meg felt something for Cas in terms of both attraction and feelings; and while that makes it all a bittersweet tragedy, it also doesn't mean things were reciprocally non-platonic. She was into him, but he seemingly wasn’t into her in the same way. After Meg’s death, Cas also never asks about her or mentions her or has any reaction at all to her being gone–something that would have been very easy for them to incorporate with even one mention if they'd wanted to or considered it foundational. (For example, mentions of Dean's relationship with Benny are recurring throughout the show, lending its non-platonic nature and its significance for establishing bi Dean even more weight.) Season 8 Megstiel content is also placed narratively right up against the Destiel content, and the contrast of that is–of course–pretty stark. That was likely deliberate. Cas’ feelings for Dean are unavoidably, unmistakably at the forefront.

Then you've got season 9. A newly human Cas–who was given the heteronormative suggestion by Metatron to "Find a wife. Make babies."–gets seduced then killed by April, all of which is traumatizing dubious consent galore. Then you’ve got Cas thinking he's being asked out on a date by a woman in 9x06 as he’s trying to figure out his life as a human. He even says this explicitly to Dean: “Going on dates… that's something humans do, right?” He is doing what he thinks he’s meant to be doing as a human, but is that action based in genuine desire? That line implies the answer being no. Contextually this is, of course, set against the jilted lover vibes he has with Dean in that episode. And then in the season at large, Cas becomes focused on his overall mission–a search for purpose, which (as Metatron helpfully points out later) becomes oriented around saving Dean.

Season 10 is up next. Hannah is very clearly interested in Cas, but Cas is a giant question mark in the face of all of her interest pretty consistently. In all honesty, the way Hannah comes onto Cas—the construction of the scenes—feels like it was intended to show that Cas isn’t interested in women. Half the time he doesn’t clock her vibes, and the other half the time he awkwardly avoids acknowledging it. This culminates in her standing in front of him naked in the clearest signal she can give… and as he says, he’s ~not bothered~ by it. He’s just... well, he's gay. Lmfao. And speaking of the naked Hannah scene in 10x07, something I personally find highly amusing is that that naked scene is immediately followed by Dean enthusiastically making out with a woman. It’s a smash cut with a very pointed contrast, in my opinion! I was very struck by it.

So that's my mini tour (with imperfect recall) of Cas' Moments With Women in the story and how I feel they're positioned.

And to touch upon the idea of contrast a bit further… With Dean, there are ample moments and instances where he canonically expresses (joyful or uncomplicated) sexual attraction to women, and/or romantic love for women throughout the show. This is why his canonical attraction to women should never be in question, as part of his bisexuality. But with Cas... I don’t personally feel we have a scene of his where we can unequivocally say the same. There are always story elements at play that indicate complex motivation, or when a woman (or woman-shaped being? lol) may be interested in him there doesn’t seem to be genuine reciprocal interest on his part. The absence of a clear scene establishing he’s unequivocally attracted to women doesn’t mean he couldn’t hypothetically be… but there are no significant moments that convince me that that’s the case in canon. Instead, I think the picture these layered moments paint of Cas and his sexuality is solidified as the story progress–as part of how his sense of self solidifies and emerges story-wide in kind. By that I mean: the shades of how he reacts to Hannah are there in his reactions to Meg’s interest years prior, but in season 10 they feel more clear because by that point he understands himself better (especially after his time as a human) and has formulated his identity as a person more than he had, for example, in season 6.

The secondary part of this though is the queercoding attached to Cas–which is, by and large, gay coding. (There is also more contrast here in comparison to Dean's bi coding in that regard.) By “gay” coding, I mean… Dean describes Cas as having "sensible shoes,” which is gay slang/code, though more commonly used in reference to lesbians. Cas uses female pop artists for his aliases, which is a wink/nod to stereotypes of gay men—a pattern that’s established in later seasons concurrently to the Destiel narrative taking even deeper root. The specific micro-agressions (and outright aggressions) Cas is subjected to by others—as he's clocked as being an outsider who doesn't fit and for being in love with Dean, in ways that are often tangled together—are traditionally gay story devices at play. And I'm also fond of the seeming significance of Cas' conversation with Pastor Joe in 15x15. Cas asks the Pastor what he means by people of "all backgrounds," being welcomed, and the Pastor says, "Connor didn't have to live in fear of who he was. A gay man who believed in a tolerant God." And Cas says, "Well, I imagine not everyone was happy with the change."

In terms of why I say he’s also demi… Cas is seemingly never ~interested~ in anyone but Dean. Now, part of that is of course a byproduct of the storytelling structures he's given. But nonetheless, his singleminded focus on / interest in / devotion to Dean feels unwavering in its totality. Even as Dean stops looking to date other people in later seasons because he knows he’s fallen in love with Cas, there’s still references to or nods to his attraction to men and women as a significant part of who he is. But unless I’m forgetting things, Cas just… doesn’t really seem to have that embedded into his character. He's got an emotional attachment to (and "profound bond" with) Dean, and his attraction to and love for Dean is part of its natural extension. That’s where the demi reading comes in for me, but it’s certainly a side note / asterisk to him being gay, which I think is the prime part of his identity the text deliberately points towards overall.

Regarding Cas' gender and how that may affect any part of this discussion... Is Cas non-binary? Well, in the show overall, angels are obviously considered ~celestial wavelengths of intent~. We see the fluidity of angels in different gendered vessels, and one could say the angels' primary gender is sort of "genderless" as default. Sure. But... at minimum, I feel it's implied that Cas comes to feel at home in a male vessel's body, and in what has legitimately become his body. As Dean says, "It's not an 'it,' Sam. It's Cas." And ultimately, I feel the gender question is not really a huge part of the point in regards to how canon presents this queer story to us.

To the question of if Cas would still be "gay" if he was in a female vessel and fell in love with Dean–or even to a question of "what if Dean was a woman" I've seen plenty of other people pose in various contexts–I think it's almost like... a moot point. The homoeroticism of Dean and Cas' dynamic is significant in a multilayered way, and that was true from day one. Their dynamic is very much affected by and built on them being 2 masculine men (or Cas being perceived as a "man" if you want to go that route), both in story and out of it, particularly in Dean's reactions to Cas. And the romance, tension, push-and-pull, miscommunication, coding, and censorship–the latter being a thing that shaped story choices over the years–all exist in a specific way because their relationship is undeniably, visibly queer. Destiel as we know it could not and would not be the same if one of them was in a perceived woman's body. Their interactions would have been vastly different, and thus in my head it's impossible to conceptualize.

Supernatural is also very much a story about the deconstruction of toxic masculinity while maintaining masculinity through a queer lens. This is its own separate topic that I actually have been wanting to make a post about for awhile now (in part because over-feminization of their characters in fandom, especially in ways that lead to apply ill-fitting repression narratives to Dean's canon, can miss several points about this). Those masculinity themes are so centralized because of Dean and Cas' romance and the fact that they are two men. There is significance there, both historically and culturally.

So while maybe Cas would or could identify as non-binary... It doesn't seem like a viewpoint he is particularly aligned with, and it also doesn't feel like a significant element at play in this queer love story. That makes me tip towards saying it's not a huge factor in discussions of exact readings or terminology for Cas' canonical sexuality/identity.

As a side note: to a certain extent, I also find it interesting to contemplate how some of their miscommunication in-narrative maybe extends into the idea that Dean is attracted to women and Cas seems not to be. More than once, Dean tries to bond with Cas through ~typical male~ interests, such as when he takes him to a strip club. Dean being bi doesn't mean he avoids having heteronormativity on the brain lol, and that sort of thing in his experience is usually quick-and-easy guy bonding time, especially in hunting culture. But while Cas learns how to be human in a metaphorical sense from the Winchesters' examples in several ways (both the good and the bad habits/lessons), something he can't/doesn't pick up is attraction to women or how to act on or express that sort of attraction, because it just doesn't seem innate to him. So while Dean and Cas are certainly both queer, to me they exhibit different forms of queer experiences (bi and gay) in characteristics and in story and in coding that add a layer to their dynamic. It's a little bit of a difference between them that they maybe don't know how to awkwardly address with each other, because they often don't fucking communicate, and I can see it contributing to Dean wondering if / how much Cas has capacity to "feel that way"... making him think Cas maybe doesn't reciprocate his desire. Because they're both stupid.

Anyway! Anyway.

Back to the main points:

Let me summarize.

I personally don't think Cas is attracted to women, and that the story points to him going through a journey of learning that about himself as he grows into himself over time. The queercoding in connection to him, such as it is, also rings of being gay coding. Considering we see him primarily or solely so strongly interested in Dean, an argument/hypothesis for him being demi doesn't feel off the mark. And I don't think the question of angelic gender is super relevant to what canon points to in this discussion for Cas specifically, because I do think the m/m nature of Destiel is relevant to their story and dynamic with each other, and by later seasons at minimum Cas is seemingly comfortably "a man" (perhaps even more so than an ambiguously gendered Being).

Is there a stronger or more persuasive argument to be made about the specifics of Cas' sexuality in canon? I'd be open to hearing it, of course, but I just kind of doubt any other argument would be convincing enough to change my mind when factoring in all of the story elements at play.

However. All of this being said:

I would certainly not call an umbrella use of the word "queer" wrong for Cas. I think it is, in fact, very applicable! For one thing, the word "queer" in this instance effectively encompasses a combined gay and demi reading, as an example. For another thing, it's an understandable hat tip that simplifies his various complexities as an angel. It works.

I'm also not die-on-this-hill militant about the use of the word "gay" for Cas because I'm cognizant of how things are not 100% clearcut with him. I do not say this to negate my own analysis, but rather because I can acknowledge the truth of this particular situation. While I do think the above full picture kind of adds up to him being specifically gay, this is an instance where there is room for nuance within it and giving grace to–dare I say it–"interpretations." I personally don't really agree with or particularly feel comfortable considering him bi or pan specifically, given all the factors at play; but it doesn't overtly upset me that others do. For example, he did indeed have sex with April as a human, and I find I can't get mad at people who choose to take his interest in that moment 100% at face value, especially considering the fact that what I view to be his overall "gay arc" certainly has subtlety and room for subjectivity in it.

In conclusion,

I don't know if this post answers all your questions, anon. I don't know if it will help you or make you feel bad for some reason, though I certainly hope it's the former rather than the later! And I apologize for the length, but you touched on a lot of different branches in your message, and I'm nothing if not someone who maps out a whole fucking tree when asked to lmfaaaoooo.

Thank you for your patience as this post took me WAY too long to complete smh. Like what the hell, truly. You're a star, I love ya, and for what little it's worth I do infer that lots of people in fandom (perhaps even Misha) use "gay" as an umbrella word in reference to Cas. (I am sympathetic to your plight if that makes you feel weird though; it's not the same situation by any means, but I will share that I'm suspicious of people who call Dean "gay" even flippantly at this point, because nowadays I don't trust that shit lmao)

Send me thoughts and prayers because the "e" key on my laptop's keyboard has started periodically sticking and it's been driving me insane while working on writing this.

#castiel #supernatural #castiel meta #gay cas #?¿?#this is long enough it warrants tags. fuck it #anonymous #asks #char writes things #spn meta #destiel

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