#castiel meta

[thefableddestiel]

It’s true that, originally, Cas only rebelled in one universe. But it’s not true anymore.

The second that story was shown to us, countless amounts of Fanfiction, Fanart, and literally just thoughts, created new realities. The love Cas expressed was so powerful and beautiful that it inspired us to bring more universes into being.

Every time a fanfiction is written, Cas rebels again. Every time fanart is drawn, Cas loves again. Every time an idea is thought up, Cas feels again.

And maybe one day, those will outnumber the ones where he obeys, if it doesn’t already.

#and so the cycle continues #more are being created everyday #he is him #I love him #he deserves to be loved #castiel #spn #supernatural #cas loves dean #dean winchester #spn meta #Castiel meta #castiel supernatural #castiel spn #Destiel

[dotthings]

Post 6/6 of Ben Edlund commentary from SPN Then and Now podcast, 4/15/2024

Edited for clarity.

About Cas as a "broken angel," and Sam, Dean, and Cas and plot armor:

"Castiel has been a freak his whole existence and kind of a broken angel in some way that was intended. And there’s sort of a hair in the gate that was put there for some reason and it seems like the hair in the gate is a foiling mechanism for the corrupt ambitions of the archangels, the one who keeps messing it up and keeps coming back with this stubborness that defies the story. Here’s a miracle, that we are permitted to do this. We just kept bringing Cas back because everybody was like, cool, we like Cas. No one was like, “how does this work, why is this allowed?” It actually breaks the coherence of life and death but to me it makes a certain sense in the same way that moving forward through 15 seasons one could say it just passes beyond credibility…to me it passes into an epic Gilgamesh*. It passes into a thing where of course you can throw Sam or Dean 30 feet into a concrete pillar and they just…because they have lapsed into demi-god-dom, demigodhood, through all these crazy trials and purifications, going to Hell numerous times, and dying and coming back, it is a process they went through of becoming."

---

*Footnote: Gilgamesh is an epic poem from ancient Mesopotamia about a king on a quest for immortality. Not incidentally, featuring the friendship between Gilgamesh and Enkidu, best friends, found brothers, and often interpreted as a queer relationship. (There’s scholarly books on the subject). Best friends, brothers-in-arms, and lovers. Super interesting Ben Edlund references Gilgamesh right after talking about Cas’s immortality, in the same podcast where Ben Edlund also talks about Dean and Cas’s profound bond, subtext, show don’t tell but also “we just like…say it,” isn’t it? It’s not just about the immortality aspect. Dean and Cas are the Gilgamesh and Enkidu comparison. Sam and Dean and Cas as characters are comparable to the immortality themes and “demigodhood.”

#ben edlund #castiel meta #ben edlund's spn meta #destiel

[calibrationneeded]

Okay, I know that we’re all like “oh my god, Cas loves bees and that’s so cute”, but like when you really think about it, Cas’s interest in bees is really really sad.

The only time where Cas’s interest in bees is mentioned is in that period of time where he’s crazy, where he’s so bogged down with trauma that he can barely function. In that period he was reduced to his basic impulses, “bleeding for the Winchester’s” and being an Angel.

But he wasn’t welcome in heaven after what he’d done. But he was designed to be a part of a collective, a higher power. So he in his simple state went to find one, and he found bees. They’re obviously comparable to angels in the sense they are a part of a hive mind and serve a higher power (the queen).

Cas’s attempts to insert himself in with the bees (via collecting honey, and even the showing up naked covered in bees) was an attempt to be something more than himself.

It’s not that he necessarily likes bees, he just desperately needed to belong to something, to be something other than a failed Angel.

#Castiel meta #castiel #character analysis #Castiel character analysis #it’s thee am and I’m sad about cas #supernatural #spn

[charcubed]

A lot of people refer to Cas as "gay," which I think is awesome and everything. But I personally always considered him more as "queer" for a number of reasons, such as:

angel genders and vessels are very fluid. Would he still be considered "gay" if he were in a female vessel, and in love with Dean? Also, there are several times in the series where Cas appears to be attracted to women (some ppl don't consider these moments valid for Reasons™ which is fine. But I do.) He also seems, in my opinion, to only be romantically interested in Dean, and I think this would be true if Dean were female. So that would make Cas closer to demi.

Point is, I recently saw a post on sm that was like "reminder: Cas is GAY. He's not bi, pan, or unlabeled, he's gay and that's not negotiable."

I consider myself queer and a huge Cas fan, so it was weird to see my interpretation of a character I know really well and relate to just be invalidated like that.

And I just kind of wanted you opinion, cuz I know like in Dean's case, seeing him as anything other than bi is pretty clearly against canon.

But is the same true for Cas? Is it wrong to see him as an umbrella "queer?" I know Misha calls him gay, which I love and respect, but I don't really let my interpretations be dictated by actor opinions. I feel like canon supports a much more fluid interpretation of Cas, but I'm just wondering if I'm wrong for that, in terms of what canon supports.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Thanks for your thoughts in this fandom I love them

Hi!! Thank you for the nice words and for wanting to know my thoughts on this. I appreciate you :)

Sorry it took me over a week to finish this. I kind of started it, realized it was probably gonna be longer than I’d expected, and then added to it in pieces when off work so as not to half-ass it.

Also, I want you to know that I think you absolutely rock for this message. The fact that you have a strong personal interpretation or strong feelings about what your view of Cas' sexuality means to you, while being open to hearing arguments for what canon supports, is exactly the kind of nuance too many people in fandom lack. Huge fuckin shout out to you, anon, because this takes both guts and brain cells!

I have two primary threads of thought I'm going to address here, as well as how they criss-cross:

I agree that Cas' canon sexuality is a slightly different topic than Dean's canon sexuality. Dean's bisexuality is not unclear/unambiguous, and there's no wiggle room there; he's frequently attracted to women, he's frequently attracted to men, there's bi lighting, it's all not rocket science. Cas is a bit more ~ambiguously queer~, so advocating for fandom maintaining a unanimous hard stance on his canon sexuality is... a little trickier. In that vein, the "reminder" post you mentioned seeing feels too intense in my opinion for the nature of this particular conversation/topic.

That being said: from an analytical standpoint, I do think the strongest argument to be made based on canon is that Cas is gay and demi.

Since you seem open to it and asked for my thoughts overall, I'm gonna break down point 2 before circling back to point 1. Quick reminder/disclaimer that I'm not trying to invalidate you or your personal connection to Cas with anything I'm about to say, so please keep that in mind <3

You mentioned how some people don't consider Cas' moments of being attracted to women as ~being valid~ and said you disagree. That's fair! At the same time... in a nuanced fashion, that's where I land on it. I also think the show took care to ultimately build to and portray a full picture with all of that factored in, and to talk about that I kinda gotta go into detail here, because it's one part of a bigger piece. I’m not trying to turn this into a comprehensive meta deep dive, so I’m going to talk about this in a sort of summarized way but not go too far into breaking down any one point or analyzing any one scene. Hope that’s cool.

Let’s look at Cas’ biggest “moments,” as it were, with women. Or the ones I would guess people intend to reference.

First up: there’s Meg. We’ve got the “pizza man" season 6 kiss, the season 7 arc of Meg watching over Cas during his mental break, and season 8 when Meg sacrifices herself.

The season 6 "pizza man" kiss, to me, really plays into the overall mood of Cas' curiosity as he explores and tries to understand human behavior. He watched porn and was intrigued/confused/aroused, Meg kissed him partially to get at his angel blade (not a euphemism lmao), and then his curiosity kicked in so he kissed her more thoroughly because the opportunity was there. Those scenes are all connected, and he doesn’t have much of a reaction after the kiss. Then, season 7 is a whole suitcase to unpack, but… the bottom line there is that Meg treated Cas with decency when he was vulnerable in every sense of the word. And then in season 8, Cas undeniably had a fondness for Meg by the end, and they were friends... but I don't read it as him having an attraction to her or romantic feelings for her. I do not mean this as shade or hate to anyone who ships them, but my reading on that dynamic overall is that I do think Meg felt something for Cas in terms of both attraction and feelings; and while that makes it all a bittersweet tragedy, it also doesn't mean things were reciprocally non-platonic. She was into him, but he seemingly wasn’t into her in the same way. After Meg’s death, Cas also never asks about her or mentions her or has any reaction at all to her being gone–something that would have been very easy for them to incorporate with even one mention if they'd wanted to or considered it foundational. (For example, mentions of Dean's relationship with Benny are recurring throughout the show, lending its non-platonic nature and its significance for establishing bi Dean even more weight.) Season 8 Megstiel content is also placed narratively right up against the Destiel content, and the contrast of that is–of course–pretty stark. That was likely deliberate. Cas’ feelings for Dean are unavoidably, unmistakably at the forefront.

Then you've got season 9. A newly human Cas–who was given the heteronormative suggestion by Metatron to "Find a wife. Make babies."–gets seduced then killed by April, all of which is traumatizing dubious consent galore. Then you’ve got Cas thinking he's being asked out on a date by a woman in 9x06 as he’s trying to figure out his life as a human. He even says this explicitly to Dean: “Going on dates… that's something humans do, right?” He is doing what he thinks he’s meant to be doing as a human, but is that action based in genuine desire? That line implies the answer being no. Contextually this is, of course, set against the jilted lover vibes he has with Dean in that episode. And then in the season at large, Cas becomes focused on his overall mission–a search for purpose, which (as Metatron helpfully points out later) becomes oriented around saving Dean.

Season 10 is up next. Hannah is very clearly interested in Cas, but Cas is a giant question mark in the face of all of her interest pretty consistently. In all honesty, the way Hannah comes onto Cas—the construction of the scenes—feels like it was intended to show that Cas isn’t interested in women. Half the time he doesn’t clock her vibes, and the other half the time he awkwardly avoids acknowledging it. This culminates in her standing in front of him naked in the clearest signal she can give… and as he says, he’s ~not bothered~ by it. He’s just... well, he's gay. Lmfao. And speaking of the naked Hannah scene in 10x07, something I personally find highly amusing is that that naked scene is immediately followed by Dean enthusiastically making out with a woman. It’s a smash cut with a very pointed contrast, in my opinion! I was very struck by it.

So that's my mini tour (with imperfect recall) of Cas' Moments With Women in the story and how I feel they're positioned.

And to touch upon the idea of contrast a bit further… With Dean, there are ample moments and instances where he canonically expresses (joyful or uncomplicated) sexual attraction to women, and/or romantic love for women throughout the show. This is why his canonical attraction to women should never be in question, as part of his bisexuality. But with Cas... I don’t personally feel we have a scene of his where we can unequivocally say the same. There are always story elements at play that indicate complex motivation, or when a woman (or woman-shaped being? lol) may be interested in him there doesn’t seem to be genuine reciprocal interest on his part. The absence of a clear scene establishing he’s unequivocally attracted to women doesn’t mean he couldn’t hypothetically be… but there are no significant moments that convince me that that’s the case in canon. Instead, I think the picture these layered moments paint of Cas and his sexuality is solidified as the story progress–as part of how his sense of self solidifies and emerges story-wide in kind. By that I mean: the shades of how he reacts to Hannah are there in his reactions to Meg’s interest years prior, but in season 10 they feel more clear because by that point he understands himself better (especially after his time as a human) and has formulated his identity as a person more than he had, for example, in season 6.

The secondary part of this though is the queercoding attached to Cas–which is, by and large, gay coding. (There is also more contrast here in comparison to Dean's bi coding in that regard.) By “gay” coding, I mean… Dean describes Cas as having "sensible shoes,” which is gay slang/code, though more commonly used in reference to lesbians. Cas uses female pop artists for his aliases, which is a wink/nod to stereotypes of gay men—a pattern that’s established in later seasons concurrently to the Destiel narrative taking even deeper root. The specific micro-agressions (and outright aggressions) Cas is subjected to by others—as he's clocked as being an outsider who doesn't fit and for being in love with Dean, in ways that are often tangled together—are traditionally gay story devices at play. And I'm also fond of the seeming significance of Cas' conversation with Pastor Joe in 15x15. Cas asks the Pastor what he means by people of "all backgrounds," being welcomed, and the Pastor says, "Connor didn't have to live in fear of who he was. A gay man who believed in a tolerant God." And Cas says, "Well, I imagine not everyone was happy with the change."

In terms of why I say he’s also demi… Cas is seemingly never ~interested~ in anyone but Dean. Now, part of that is of course a byproduct of the storytelling structures he's given. But nonetheless, his singleminded focus on / interest in / devotion to Dean feels unwavering in its totality. Even as Dean stops looking to date other people in later seasons because he knows he’s fallen in love with Cas, there’s still references to or nods to his attraction to men and women as a significant part of who he is. But unless I’m forgetting things, Cas just… doesn’t really seem to have that embedded into his character. He's got an emotional attachment to (and "profound bond" with) Dean, and his attraction to and love for Dean is part of its natural extension. That’s where the demi reading comes in for me, but it’s certainly a side note / asterisk to him being gay, which I think is the prime part of his identity the text deliberately points towards overall.

Regarding Cas' gender and how that may affect any part of this discussion... Is Cas non-binary? Well, in the show overall, angels are obviously considered ~celestial wavelengths of intent~. We see the fluidity of angels in different gendered vessels, and one could say the angels' primary gender is sort of "genderless" as default. Sure. But... at minimum, I feel it's implied that Cas comes to feel at home in a male vessel's body, and in what has legitimately become his body. As Dean says, "It's not an 'it,' Sam. It's Cas." And ultimately, I feel the gender question is not really a huge part of the point in regards to how canon presents this queer story to us.

To the question of if Cas would still be "gay" if he was in a female vessel and fell in love with Dean–or even to a question of "what if Dean was a woman" I've seen plenty of other people pose in various contexts–I think it's almost like... a moot point. The homoeroticism of Dean and Cas' dynamic is significant in a multilayered way, and that was true from day one. Their dynamic is very much affected by and built on them being 2 masculine men (or Cas being perceived as a "man" if you want to go that route), both in story and out of it, particularly in Dean's reactions to Cas. And the romance, tension, push-and-pull, miscommunication, coding, and censorship–the latter being a thing that shaped story choices over the years–all exist in a specific way because their relationship is undeniably, visibly queer. Destiel as we know it could not and would not be the same if one of them was in a perceived woman's body. Their interactions would have been vastly different, and thus in my head it's impossible to conceptualize.

Supernatural is also very much a story about the deconstruction of toxic masculinity while maintaining masculinity through a queer lens. This is its own separate topic that I actually have been wanting to make a post about for awhile now (in part because over-feminization of their characters in fandom, especially in ways that lead to apply ill-fitting repression narratives to Dean's canon, can miss several points about this). Those masculinity themes are so centralized because of Dean and Cas' romance and the fact that they are two men. There is significance there, both historically and culturally.

So while maybe Cas would or could identify as non-binary... It doesn't seem like a viewpoint he is particularly aligned with, and it also doesn't feel like a significant element at play in this queer love story. That makes me tip towards saying it's not a huge factor in discussions of exact readings or terminology for Cas' canonical sexuality/identity.

As a side note: to a certain extent, I also find it interesting to contemplate how some of their miscommunication in-narrative maybe extends into the idea that Dean is attracted to women and Cas seems not to be. More than once, Dean tries to bond with Cas through ~typical male~ interests, such as when he takes him to a strip club. Dean being bi doesn't mean he avoids having heteronormativity on the brain lol, and that sort of thing in his experience is usually quick-and-easy guy bonding time, especially in hunting culture. But while Cas learns how to be human in a metaphorical sense from the Winchesters' examples in several ways (both the good and the bad habits/lessons), something he can't/doesn't pick up is attraction to women or how to act on or express that sort of attraction, because it just doesn't seem innate to him. So while Dean and Cas are certainly both queer, to me they exhibit different forms of queer experiences (bi and gay) in characteristics and in story and in coding that add a layer to their dynamic. It's a little bit of a difference between them that they maybe don't know how to awkwardly address with each other, because they often don't fucking communicate, and I can see it contributing to Dean wondering if / how much Cas has capacity to "feel that way"... making him think Cas maybe doesn't reciprocate his desire. Because they're both stupid.

Anyway! Anyway.

Back to the main points:

Let me summarize.

I personally don't think Cas is attracted to women, and that the story points to him going through a journey of learning that about himself as he grows into himself over time. The queercoding in connection to him, such as it is, also rings of being gay coding. Considering we see him primarily or solely so strongly interested in Dean, an argument/hypothesis for him being demi doesn't feel off the mark. And I don't think the question of angelic gender is super relevant to what canon points to in this discussion for Cas specifically, because I do think the m/m nature of Destiel is relevant to their story and dynamic with each other, and by later seasons at minimum Cas is seemingly comfortably "a man" (perhaps even more so than an ambiguously gendered Being).

Is there a stronger or more persuasive argument to be made about the specifics of Cas' sexuality in canon? I'd be open to hearing it, of course, but I just kind of doubt any other argument would be convincing enough to change my mind when factoring in all of the story elements at play.

However. All of this being said:

I would certainly not call an umbrella use of the word "queer" wrong for Cas. I think it is, in fact, very applicable! For one thing, the word "queer" in this instance effectively encompasses a combined gay and demi reading, as an example. For another thing, it's an understandable hat tip that simplifies his various complexities as an angel. It works.

I'm also not die-on-this-hill militant about the use of the word "gay" for Cas because I'm cognizant of how things are not 100% clearcut with him. I do not say this to negate my own analysis, but rather because I can acknowledge the truth of this particular situation. While I do think the above full picture kind of adds up to him being specifically gay, this is an instance where there is room for nuance within it and giving grace to–dare I say it–"interpretations." I personally don't really agree with or particularly feel comfortable considering him bi or pan specifically, given all the factors at play; but it doesn't overtly upset me that others do. For example, he did indeed have sex with April as a human, and I find I can't get mad at people who choose to take his interest in that moment 100% at face value, especially considering the fact that what I view to be his overall "gay arc" certainly has subtlety and room for subjectivity in it.

In conclusion,

I don't know if this post answers all your questions, anon. I don't know if it will help you or make you feel bad for some reason, though I certainly hope it's the former rather than the later! And I apologize for the length, but you touched on a lot of different branches in your message, and I'm nothing if not someone who maps out a whole fucking tree when asked to lmfaaaoooo.

Thank you for your patience as this post took me WAY too long to complete smh. Like what the hell, truly. You're a star, I love ya, and for what little it's worth I do infer that lots of people in fandom (perhaps even Misha) use "gay" as an umbrella word in reference to Cas. (I am sympathetic to your plight if that makes you feel weird though; it's not the same situation by any means, but I will share that I'm suspicious of people who call Dean "gay" even flippantly at this point, because nowadays I don't trust that shit lmao)

Send me thoughts and prayers because the "e" key on my laptop's keyboard has started periodically sticking and it's been driving me insane while working on writing this.

#castiel #supernatural #castiel meta #gay cas #?¿? #this is long enough it warrants tags. fuck it #anonymous #asks #char writes things #spn meta #destiel

[solarmidnight]

Yes, the way Dean and Castiel met is absolutely memorable, but can we stop and consider the fact that Castiel had absolutely no need to rattle the roof's sheet metal, nor make the lightbulbs burst? He's contained within a vessel. At no point since has he ever done anything like that again. He was fucking showing off. He's so damn dramatic!!

#supernatural #spn meta #castiel #dean winchester #destiel #destiel meta #castiel meta #spn 4x01

[and-stir-the-stars]

society if Mary mentioned to Cas about how she was brought back to life really just so she could make Dean (and Sam, but mostly Dean) feel better like she was some kind of tool, and how being resurrected feels like a punishment sometimes because everyone she's ever loved or known is dead; her entire support group is gone, and it feels like the only people she's supposed/allowed to surround herself with is Sam and Dean.

Cas, of course, understands this. He's felt like he has been brought back to life over and over again as a punishment because he needs to fix his past mistakes for years now; Cas is literally billions of years old but everyone he has ever known and loved (except for Sam and Dean and Jack) is dead by season 14 because they stood up for him, OR these people ended up betraying Cas in some way, as though Cas is being punished for caring about people outside of Sam and Dean. Cas too would feel like the only people he's allowed/supposed to surround himself with is Sam and Dean, which is further supported by the fact that Sam and Dean all hated (or at least expressed dislike in Cas being around) Castiel's other friends (Balthazar, Uriel, Kelly, Meg, Hannah, etc; not even Jack was safe from the Winchesters' criticisms or threats).

Anyway, both Mary and Cas were horrifically isolated and parallel each other's trauma to a certain extent; they could relate to each other and should have been able to discuss these things on screen.

#mary winchester #castiel #spn #cas friendships #mary and cas #cas and mary #marystiel #cas meta #mary meta #mary winchester meta #castiel meta

[elementaryboysoversherlockgirls]

Okay I feel a little bad for robot cas when Naomi was doin her thing (I’m on Season 8 btw). But up to this point, he’s *barely* been a good guy. Like, they’re really not selling me on this destiel business.

#spn #supernatural #castiel #Castiel meta

[orpheustiel]

one of the most important things that guides our behavior is satiation and deprivation - if i'm satiated i don't seek it anymore and if i'm deprived i do. if i'm thirsty, i drink. when i'm no longer thirsty, i stop drinking. castiel, being an angel, doen't have that. he always wants more and more, he doesn't know how to stop, is never satieted. but he also stops himself, holds himself back, believing he deserves to be deprived.

#castiel #cas #spn #supernatural #castiel meta #words

[deanwasalwaysbi]

Look - Chuck Either brought Cas back bc he was bored and Cas was interesting or bc Cas was vital to the story. There are no other explanations.

They never explained Cas coming back from the dead in seasons 4 and 5. In no other show would they ever kill a major character off, bring them back, and never explain it and not have it be a plot point. The only explanation given was Chuck must have brought Cas back. Why? Either Cas was in some way SO vital to the story- had some role he had yet to fulfill, ...no hetero explanation. ... OR

Chuck met Cas, saw Cas defy the story - the first time such a thing had ever happened - and said fuck yeah - this is interesting - I want to see where this goes.

#castiel meta #spn was gay bc chuck was bored change my mind #original content

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

So I was thinking about this scene:

I've always talked about it from Dean's perspective (and sometimes from the Destiel perspective) but never from Cas'. I think the GA (and antis who claim this is a fanservice scene and nothing more) underestimate just how powerful this scene was for Cas' own story. The ILY aside, I think it's important to note just how full circle the angel's storyline came and how impactful that decision to include the bloody handprint really was.

When Cas first enters the story of SPN that we see (physically I mean), this scene happens:

Cas: "I'm the one who gripped you tight and raised you from perdition."

Dean: "And why would an angel rescue me from Hell?"

Cas: "Good things do happen, Dean."

Dean: "Not in my experience."

Cas: "What's the matter? You don't think you deserve to be saved."

Dean: "Why'd you do it?"

Cas: "Because God commanded it."

When Cas first rescues Dean from Hell, he has been commanded to do it. He's following orders. They have "work" for Dean to do aka an ulterior motive. And as we see here, Dean as always, believes he doesn't deserve to be saved (which we find out why in this particular instance later) and that good things don't just happen which momentarily confuses Castiel.

Dean: "Is it true? Did I break the first seal? Did I start all this?"

Cas: "Yes. When we discovered Lilith's plan for you, we laid siege to Hell. And we fought our way to get to you. Before you--"

Dean: "Jump started the apocalypse."

Cas: "We were too late."

Dean: "Why didn't you just leave me there then?"

Cas: "It's not blame that falls on you, Dean. It's fate. The righteous man who begins it is the only one who can finish it. You have to stop it."

Dean: "Lucifer, the apocalypse, what does that mean? Hey! Don't you go disappearing on me, you son of a bitch. What does that mean?"

Cas: "I don't know."

Dean: "Bull!"

Cas: "I don't. Dean, they don't tell me much. I know our fate rests with you."

Dean: "Then you guys are screwed. I can't do it, Cas. It's too big. Alistair was right. I'm not all here. I'm not--I'm not strong enough. I guess I'm not the man either of our dads wanted me to be. Find someone else. It's not me."

In this scene, it's after Alistair got out of the Devil's trap and attacked Dean, after telling Dean that he started the apocalypse by breaking the first seal. Cas reveals that the reason they went into Hell to rescue him was to prevent the first seal from being broken which would knock over apocalyptic dominoes. But they were too late. And Dean makes a good point: why didn't they just leave him there then? Considering what we know about how angels sometimes operate in this story, it would make sense if they chose to do something like that but Cas rescues Dean anyway. Which we know Cas was the one not only because he says it but also because when Dean is resurrected, we see this:

Which is further verified by what happens to Pamela when she touches it. She's able to communicate with Castiel directly (a la Amara with Casifer being able to connect to Dean but I won't digress) and we know her eyes burn when she attempts to spy on his true visage.

Now if we go back to the 15x18 scene above, we get:

Dean, Sam, Cas, and Jack are currently locked in a battle with Chuck and reclaiming their free will after they discover he's been the bad guy all along -> "Lucifer, the apocalypse" from 4x16

Dean and Cas are currently being chased down by Billie aka Death who is intent on killing Dean once and for all so he can go back to where she believes he belongs (and she had a plan in place to take care of Chuck and how Dean would play a part in it besides Jack and Sam) -> aka "Lilith's plan" & Alistair and Co getting Dean to break the first seal from 4x16

Cas is helping Dean to get away, rescuing him from what would have been a gruesome death -> Cas rescues Dean from Hell from 4x01 & 4x16

Dean feeling defeated when he and Cas are locked in the room (that has a Devil's trap in it btw) that Billie is trying to get into -> Dean telling Cas that they shouldn't rely on him to stop the Apocalypse & it's too big for him because he is suffering from guilt and self-doubt from 4x16

Dean: "Everybody's gonna die, Cas. Everybody. I can't stop it. She's gonna get through that door."

Cas: "I know."

Dean: "And she's gonna kill you. And then she's gonna kill me. I'm sorry."

If you take this dialogue and these two performances in this moment and compare it to the 4x16 hospital scene, you have a very similar event or theme happening here. The only differences are Cas' reaction (we see he is more greatly affected this time around which is due to their familiarity with one another and the development of their characters and relationship as well as the show evolving, season 4 was still considered to be the "horror show"), Dean while still hopeless is accepting of the inevitable & is not shutting Cas out. Instead he moves closer rather than looks away like he does in 4x16, letting out the one tear. Not that he wasn't vulnerable with Cas in 4x16, but the whole performance from Jensen while being different in its own ways is also quite similar to that scene.

While Cas saved Dean from Billie in the moment & warded the door to keep them alive that much longer (with his own blood but more on that in a moment), he comes up with a plan to stop Billie entirely that will save Dean but also cause his own death. Thus, he is going to rescue Dean while laying down his own life.

Cas: "When Jack was dying, I made a deal to save him."

Dean: "You what?"

Cas: "The price was my life. When I experienced a moment of true happiness, The Empty would be summoned and it would take me forever."

Dean: "Why are you telling me this now?"

Cas: "I always wondered when I took that burden, that curse, I wondered what it could be, what my true happiness could even look like. I never found an answer because the one thing I want, it's something I know I can't have. But I think I know...I think I know now. Happiness isn't in the having, it's in just being. It's in just saying it."

Dean: "What are you talking about, man?"

Cas: "I know...I know how you see yourself, Dean. You see yourself the same way our enemies see you. You're destructive and you're angry and you're broken, your'e Daddy's blunt instrument. And you think that hate and anger, that's...that's what drives you, that's who you are. It's not. And everyone who knows you sees it. Everything you have ever done, the good and the bad, you have done for love. You raised your little brother for love, you fought for this whole world for love. That is who you are. You're the most caring man on Earth. You are the most selfless, loving human being I will ever know. You know, ever since we met, ever since I pulled you out of Hell, knowing you has changed me. Because you cared, I cared. I cared about you, I cared about Sam, I cared about Jack, but I cared about the whole world because of you. You changed me, Dean."

Dean: "Why does this sound like a goodbye?"

Cas: "Because it is. I love you."

Dean: "Don't do this, Cas. Cas..."

Cas: "Goodbye, Dean."

Dean: "What?"

So not only does Cas address Dean's anger which has been a series-long issue that really was brought to the forefront the most it's ever been in season 15 (meaning the anger is fueling Dean's desperation which is now part of the main theme of the season), but he also saves him from his own personal Hell. While also setting Dean up to do what he does in the next episode when it comes to facing down Chuck and the decision he makes (along with Sam) not to kill him and give him what he wanted. What Alistair, Lilith, and Hell always thought he was. What their enemies (like Chuck) always thought about Dean. What he himself thought.

And the bloody handprint happens in the moment The Empty enters the room on one side and Billie breaks through the door on the other side (when the wards Cas put up in his own blood to protect Dean from Billie don't hold up anymore; yes, Cas used his own blood to protect Dean, the significance of that is just so...I don't even know how to put it into words):

Cas throws him against the wall, out of the way, so he can be physically safe from both supernatural forces. So he not only saves his soul so to speak, he also saves his life.

And what's important about this scene and the way it went down/was written is that while yes, it parallels how Cas rescued Dean from Hell, it also brings his story full circle in a very beautiful way (not just his relationship or profound bond with Dean). Cas chose to do this. He chose to speak those three little words to summon The Empty, ensuring his own death, but also confessing to Dean how he really feels with no expectations. All to save Dean.

So he did what he had entered the story to do in the beginning, but this time, Cas exercised his own free will to save the man he loved while also setting up said man to not only defeat Chuck but also to save the world. Something that Dean himself chooses to do while exercising his own free will (which is another reason why 15x20 makes no sense).

So that bloody handprint, whoever came up with it on the day or if it was in the script (I can't remember which), that was a moment of pure genius because physically it helps pull this whole scene and Cas' story together even more. Cas is commanded to save Dean from Hell, leaves a burned-in handprint on his shoulder. Cas chooses to save Dean from Death (and himself), leaves his own bloody handprint on his shoulder.

As much as I hated Cas dying for the longest time and I didn't understand why Misha was so happy with that ending for his character (despite the parallels), I now get it. Cas' story had come full circle. He exercised the free will that he had not only earned but was given when he changed thanks to knowing Dean, way before Jack entered the picture. That's development, folks. And it was exemplified in the most beautiful way possible. He got to choose when to summon The Empty and why. He got to choose to save Dean one more time but this time of his own volition (though I would argue he may have chosen to save Dean's soul pre-4x01 despite the latter having started the apocalypse). But this scene from beginning to end is HIS choice. The circumstances and time pressure may be present but he could have tried to find another way to get them out of there or he could have lived (because I don't see how Billie could have killed him, he's an angel and The Empty purposely wanted him to be happy and then collect him so even if Billie got all stabby stabby, The Empty would have probably sent him back because it wouldn't be satisfied), but no. He made the choice to utilize this deal that Dean knew nothing about in order to save Dean once again.

And sure enough, in 15x19 we see:

Chuck is defeated. Dean had his free will all along (as did Sam). Jack is now the new God, which also brings another portion of Cas' story full circle and he helped to bring about. While Dean obviously misses Cas, he is able to stand on his own and make this decision himself without Heaven or Hell whispering into his ear or trying to affect the outcome. This is Dean Winchester exercising his free will (that he never really lost like he feared which is also important for the whole John/Chuck convo that we'll save for another time).

So for those who say Castiel wasn't an important character in the series or in relation to Dean (or Sam or Jack) or that the 15x18 scene was fanservice or pandering, you are incredibly wrong. Castiel proved to be instrumental in not only Dean's story line (as well as the other two) but also to the ending of the mythology altogether as well as the end of the series. The end of 15x19 looks like the exact way it's supposed to (minus them planning to break Cas out of The Empty & calling up Eileen & Jack still hanging with his fam = Winchesters 2.0 getting a better and more sensical ending that they had earned, especially in relation to Winchesters 1.0). The way Cas exited the story mirrored the way he entered, with a few slight differences. And like I said above, that's called development and it was illustrated in the most beautiful way possible while also giving one of the original members of Team Free Will the earned right to exercise theirs.

#castiel #castiel meta #spn #spnposts #mentions of destiel #very slight #this is more about cas and what he chose to do #metaposts #spn 15x18 #castielposts

[spn2006]

the fact that eric kripke isn't even christian really adds something to the way christianity is depicted on supernatural. because its really not about being christian at all, but about living in america, a country dominated by christianity, and having to decide for yourself how to handle that. faith is huge in supernatural, and the mythology of the show is very bible-centric, but notably, christ is never there. even sam, who starts out revering the angels, who once said he prays every night, doesn't actually call himself a christian or imply that he believes in jesus--the show is steeped in christianity and biblical lore and yet neither sam nor dean are christians. in fact, over and over again the church itself is depicted as a haunted house that sam and dean will only ever enter as strangers, as outsiders. priests, preachers, faith healers, chapels, crypts, etc. are all just iconography that create an intense sense of unease that sam and dean respond to instantly. as a jew, its very relatable. an essential part of living in america when you're not christian is that exact sense of unease, of knowing that the culture of your country has ensured that you'll get knocked over by christianity no matter where you go, that you'll see hundreds of people truly believing they're good people while doing awful things in the name of their god, and you have no choice but to confront that. kripke gets it

#i could actually write an essay about this #kripke is jewish and so is sera gamble #and when i rly think about it i think the show is very jewish #in that its a rejection of the christian interpretation of god and free will #its all about questioning what's put in front of you and i think that's a big part being jewish to me #anyway! #rambles #spn #supernatural #spn analysis #spn meta #faith #christianity #theology #kripke era #eric kripke #sam winchester #dean winchester #castiel #zachariah spn #uriel spn #anna milton #american gothic #fav #🔪

[im-some-lionheart]

Have you ever listened to a more Cas-coded song in your entire life?

[Your memory] makes me yell to the Heavens that I don't regret it

That I don't regret it and that I come back to your arms

My sweet sin

I have sinned, I have sinned

For wanting you more than too much

I loved you without measure, without control

And that, girl, today I pay for

I have tried, I have tried

to love you less, and I've failed

I ignored the rules, I loved you more than I loved God

And that, in fact, is a sin.

#screaming #literally ripping my hair out #destiel #otp: i did it all of it for you #Castiel meta #Casito #latinenatural #deancas #Latino Castiel #Spotify

[dotthings]

I get why people are attached to the idea of Dean pulling Cas out of The Empty. At one point, I thought it was going there too, and should have. But the more Cas's arc sank in for me, I realized how it doesn't make the most sense.

Canon indicated that Cas didn't land there, or at least, Cas would bounce out pretty quickly, if he ever went there at at all a final time, how would The Empty even hold onto him. When The Empty came to claim Cas, he was very very full, he felt whole and self-accepting. That's canon. We also have the info drop in the series finale "Cas helped," which while I'm not arguing is adequate Cas pov by any means, shows Cas landed in Heaven. No, he was not left dangling abandoned in The Empty by the ending of the show. No, Jack didn't pull him out of The Empty either.

Cas saved himself, by self-accepting, by letting himself speak the love that's in him, and speak his whole truth to Dean. We also know that Cas's S13-15 journey was him realizing he was already loved, he was already needed, and wanted, for himself, and then finally having the courage to speak the truth of his heart.

It's really important to Cas's arc that he saved himself. If Cas lands in The Empty and needs someone else to pull him out, that yanks a lot of the batteries out of Cas's arc. So while I love the idea of Dean gripping Cas tight and raising him from perdition, it doesn't actually fit Cas's arc.

The core problem with Cas and the ending isn't that Dean didn't get to pull him out of The Empty, anyway. The core problem with Cas and the ending was the complete erasing of Cas pov, and Dean's voice about what happened to Cas and how he felt about it.

This doesn't mean Dean and Cas's story is over or fulfilled. It's not. I won't get into my spec for what's next on Dean and Cas here, but it's less about Cas needing to hear it, and more about Dean's needing the chance to say it. There's some healing that still needs to be done.

#Castiel #Dean Winchester #Destiel #castiel meta

[alfalfapie]

my new Destiel theory: Dean couldn't say I love you not because of his own denial of the fact but because Chuck refused to write it like Chuck's weird psycho-sexual obsession with Dean made him so twisted that rather than allow his character to follow a natural arc that the character itself wanted to follow (see s8 rewrite of "I love you" into "I need you"), he just kept dodging it through increasingly ridiculous and pathetic ploys. he couldn't bear to watch Dean choose free will (Cas) over his heavenly ordained plan, so he just kept fucking with their relationship (see every divorce/widower arc, and all the other will they/won't they shit). really puts Cas's "What's real? We are." into context. like they are, in fact, the only real thing, despite Chuck's attempts to dismantle their relationship.

#spn #supernatural #dean winchester #destiel #castiel #deancas #dean and cas #dean x castiel #spn meta #chuck shurley

[t00muchheart]

I’m sorry the fact that when Castiel pulled Dean out of Hell he proclaimed “Dean Winchester has been saved” with such force that it broke through Anna’s humanity to the angelic part of her mind is something we don’t talk about enough actually

#spn #supernatural #dean winchester #spn meta #castiel #cas #destiel #deancas #casdean

[solarmidnight]

Okay so I'm in my thoughts because of this post, and I was thinking about something.

If Castiel was lobotomised thousands of times and factory reset, wouldn't that explain his strange lack of nuance, metaphors, and human pop culture that no other angel suffers from? Even Zachariah, who hates humans with a passion, knows about human pop culture enough to make very specific references.

Any time Castiel learned about humanity, he would come extraordinarily close to falling, but he was such a good soldier the angels couldn't afford to lose him? When they remove everything that makes Castiel who he is, they're left with someone cold, calculating, and ruthless, who follows orders to exact. When he is mindless, he's everything they need.

And right as they think they've finally got it right, Castiel's lobotomy has worked 100%, and he'll never fall to the wayside again, he rescues Dean from hell. It undoes every bit of work Naomi put into breaking him down and remaking him as a cold, emotionless shell.

Slowly, his true personality begins to shine through over the course of season 4, until Dean takes a sledgehammer to the proverbial wall in Castiel's head, and that is the end of that. He "begins" to learn thoughts and feelings, but in reality he's just regaining everything that was stolen from him.

The moment he rescued Dean from hell, he found himself again. And that was why the angels have always been horrified.

#supernatural #destiel #castiel #castiel meta #dean winchester