#thor negativity

[ramrage]

A Mountain of Salt

reviewing the new thor movie, lifted from my messages in a thorki discord i’m in

So, my absence from this discord quite neatly shows the fact that I am *so done* with Marvel shit at this point. The characters I love are either dead or so different from how they started that they might as well be dead, the fandom is generally feral, the ship's popularity just ain't what it used to be, etc. etc. And in the meantime, I have found another dalliance. Yes, I am cheating on my fandom and OTP (scandalous!) and in doing so, I've come to the conclusion that Marvel tries and pathetically fails to make Pirates of The Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl. Every fucking time. Think about it--there's a plot, for one, the humor works so well (perhaps because it's actually funny shit, the actors who deliver it do it well, and there's again that lil plot, solid characters, solid dialogue to carry it), the pacing is great, so many memorable characters, romance that's compelling, sick costumes, the fucking SCORE, oh. and the effects (mostly) don't look like dogshit. The movies are fun and light, but they're actually compelling despite that.

Also, the idea of Jack Sparrow, that crazy little rogue, messing around with (emotionally) constipated Commodore James Norrington is hot as fuck!

But the movie. Oh the movie. I had the terrible misfortune of actually seeing it and during my watch, I decided to make a tally of the things I liked and the things I didn't. I was trying to be generous. /Anything/ that I felt didn't suck went on my Like tally, and I decided to /not/ add a tally for every instance that shit was out of character, made no sense, was acted poorly, etc. Even so, It ended up being like. 12 to 37 or something.

The thing that broke my heart the most was Thor's character (obviously.) Straight up. I do not know that man. A pure stranger. Don't know him from dick. Who the fuck was THAT? and why in the world was he playing comic relief for this own fucking movie? Only in the end(-ish) did I recognize him--y'know, the scene where he was telling off Zeus. He was responsible, giving a shit, looking to take care of something bigger than himself and willing to be brave and bold to do so. That was a cool, like, two minutes, though. Everything else had him portrayed as a fucking buffoon, self-centered, idiotic, insecure. And the Jane romance. Hm. That's for another paragraph.

Surprisingly, I didn't mind Jane much at all. The scenes that earned the most Likes and the least amount of dislikes were solo Jane scenes. Natalie actually seemed to commit to this movie in ways she didn't in the first two Thor's, which was nice. Her scenes had emotional grounding and though the way they treated cancer in the movie was a bit iffy, I think she played it well enough. But yeah. The romance. First off, when the fuck did this even happen? Maybe I've been doing too much self-preservation in not studying the MCU timeline, but this long romance doesn't seem to fit ANYWHERE. The two have less sexual tension than a pair of spoons, perhaps better than previous movies, but still. The romance made no sense, the degree to which Thor was hung up on it made no sense, the idea that Thor had never really loved anyone except for Jane made no sense, either. Her loss had no weight (or not much) for me because I couldn't realistically believe in how deeply they loved each other. Made no fucking sense at all. And Thor not wanting her to die in battle and all? weird. Asgardians see death differently than Western humans, so why are they treating it in the way they do?

As for the rest of the characters... Darcy's little cameo felt genuine but not spectacular, Valkyrie was fine (I am biased because I am very gay about her), Korg was fine but seemed like fanservice if we consider Taika and his desire to be on-screen a fan, Zeus was a little too buffoon-y for me to get behind (also the accent seemed. In some way uncouth to me, but whatever), fuck those fucking GOATS OMG, and Gorr. At times the acting was a little /too/ funky for my tastes, but hey, I have to respect a blunder in the name of making a character seem /full/. He looked cool, badass, and dare I say a little sexy. However, given the fate of his daughter, y'know the thing that started his whole villainy, it didn't make sense to me that he'd be terrorizing children. But what do I know? On the topic of children, I feel like TW does like to portray the strength of children in his movies which is cool! That is good! People often overlook children as human beings, indeed, but lol I do not care. Not remotely. I have no interest in seeing an army of children (which sounds troubling, but I guess makes sense in as much as they are Asgardians. But if that's the case, why are they all absolutely clueless vis-a-vis battle? Where did that pillar of Asgardian culture go?) and let's be real, realistically one of them would've karked it in the fray, but none of them did.

Before entirely abandoning the ideas of Gorr and of children, I have to address Love. Silly fucking tie-in for the title. Silly fucking tie-in for one of the main themes of the movie, and ham-fisted at that. And ah, I don't feel great shitting on a child, but I remember watching the movie and thinking "God, this child actor really sucks. Wooden and all." Because kids /can/ be good at acting, they really can. Then I learned that Love was portrayed by Chris Hemsworth's kid and it all made sense. Like, nepotism sucks but it can be worked with. There are some very talented nepotism babies, but this kid was not one of them. This movie and all the shit around it has honestly put me off CH entirely. Like, he seems like a douche. And how everyone is treating this movie like Grown Ups in which bad actor guy who always gets a hot wife or whatever used shooting as a means to take a vacation with his buddies. Not cool.

I was confused to see New Asgard and how it was portrayed. I mean. The Asgardians were always a proud (if not straight-up arrogant) people but yet they've made their whole existence into being a Disney park (hm...) and somehow have none of the same values or tendencies as OG-Asgard. Very strange. I know imperialism and capitalism are buddies, but they are not the same, y'know?

The vfx for the final battle in the shadow realm or whatever the fuck it was called actually looked pretty cool. Like with the b&w, the intense highlights and shadows. Sort of comic-booky look. Not sure if that was intentional or just a product of Too Much Fucking CGI, though. The battle lost its flavor once the kids entered the fray, but I guess the movie did sort of turn out to be Thor 4: More Thor(s) than Ever Before. Eternity looked cool, I appreciated the parallels it drew from the desert in which Love bit it, but damn. People are bad at wishing for shit! Surely the wish could've been "I wish I and my daughter were alive and well, having the life I always wanted" or some shit instead of "I wish my daughter wasn't dead anymore." Like, what are the limitations of this wish? Might as well give it a go, no? Because Gorr didn't /just/ want his daughter to be alive, he wanted to be alive /with her/.

And Thor as a single dad. No. Nah. My face was screwed into some ridiculous grimace the whole time that shit played out. Thor has indeed become more responsible (only to then become irresponsible and then responsible again and then irresponsible and then responsible again and then...) but I wouldn't say it was ever in such a fatherly way. I also don't care to see family/parenthood in anything (my own personal hang ups, I understand), especially not in a superhero movie. And I don't think it particularly jives with the greater MCU so they'll probably have to unwrite it somehow.

Yeah, this movie was not only a personal nightmare, but it was also just a huge brainfuck in general. I wish that I could've been the one to reach Eternity first so I could make it so that it never existed or conversely, didn't suck major fucking nuts. The end.

#tlat spoilers #thor spoilers #thor love and thunder spoilers #thor 4 spoilers #aight did we get all the reasonable spoiler tags in? here’s hoping… #tlat negativity #marvel negativity #thor negativity #thor love and thunder negativity #marvel wank #thor 4 negativity #aight did we get all the wank tags in? here’s hoping… #if you didn’t want to see this sort of content but saw it nevertheless #know that i tried and am not trying to stir the pot xoxo #long post #mine #is this maybe #tasty meta #idk whatever who cares

[dkmbookworm]

Something that really pisses me off is this assumption that because you dislike the current direction with Loki and Thor’s characters, it must mean that you “hate comedy” and “want everything to be serious and gloomy”. As if the only form of comedy that exists is weird, random antics. What is this attitude that thor and loki were never funny in the previous films? The only difference is that the comedy was formed based on their personalities and conflicts with other people or situations, rather than just them being stupid or quirky.

#loki series negativity #loki series critical #anti thor ragnarok #anti thor love and thunder #anti mcu

[gloriousburden]

question for any other fans of loki who specifically like the 2011 - 2013 versions of him:

if we did have a loki centered movie/series exploring either loki after the events of tdw, a prequel, or anything else, what would you guys want explored, explained, etc… in it? please add onto this, or even send me an ask! would love to see what you guys would think loki content should’ve consisted of/been about. or even just anything where various questions would’ve been answered. like more about his jotun heritage, his time with thanos between 2011 and 2012, etc..

please rb for reach, truly would love to see what everyone else thinks lol ^_^

loki cat gif bc i can’t get enough of them

#loki #loki 💭 #loki laufeyson #loki odinson #loki friggason #thor #thor the dark world #thor 2011 #2011 2013 loki supremacy #avengers 2012 #avengers #og loki supremacy #og loki #anti loki series #anti loki show #question for loki fans #loki series criticism #loki series negativity #mcu loki #loki mcu

[musclesandhammering]

The fact that the mcu makes Loki being super powerful technically canon, but then turns around and almost never shows it and goes out of their way to emphasise what a wimp he is compared to several other characters is… a paradox.

This is a guy who:

• successfully enchants 50% of the giant eldritch horror entity that devours universes and tamed the entire multiverse, on his first try

• can telekinetically lift an entire building on the fly without breaking a sweat

• has the power to create an illusion the size of a large city

• whether for nefarious reasons or not, is literally the one that intentionally brought the avengers together and then almost succeeded in beating all 6 of them by himself

• overpowered, dethroned, and enchanted the literal Allfather and trapped him that way for 4 years

• is the only character we’ve seen onscreen that has the power to travel between worlds without the use of any magical object

• isn’t even a nexus being, yet almost every version of him in every universe is a timeline breaker and he’s created more nexus events than any other being in TVA history

But then the writers turn around and make him get beat up by humans to show how badass Sylvie is by comparison or make him get his ass kicked by Valkyrie to show how badass she is by comparison or make him get punked by Dr Strange in less than 30 seconds to show how badass he is by comparison or make him get outsmarted by Thor to show how badass he is by comparison or-

You get the point.

#loki is a plot device even when it’s his scene even when it’s his show #like he is actually canonically SO powerful #it’s just that they never actually let us see it #so half of us don’t even realise it #people keep saying they want marvel to make him as powerful as Wanda or strange #but like #even just with the stuff we’ve seen of him so far he ALREADY IS #it’s just whether they want to acknowledge it or not :/ #Loki meta #loki series negativity #thor ragnarok criticism #loki

[cosmicjoke]

See, this conversation really highlights everything that's wrong with not just the Loki show, but the MCU in general now.

What they highlight here, about Loki's conversation with Mobius, and how dismissive and flippant he is while talking about what he did he New York, like it's all some silly joke that shouldn't be taken seriously, like it wasn't a big deal, like what he was feeling while he did what he did wasn't a big deal, is really the heart of the problem. Nobody takes anything seriously in universe, so how the hell is the audience supposed to take anything they do, think or feel seriously?

They've reduced Loki's entire character to a joke. They've reduced what he went through in the first Thor film into to a joke, what he went through when he fell through space and landed in Thanos' clutches into a joke, what happened during the first Avengers film into a joke. Everything's a big, fucking joke now. How can anybody like this? Don't they see what the writers of this trash are doing? They're shitting all over you by shitting all over the thing you love. By making fun of it and undercutting it, they're telling you you were stupid to ever take any of it seriously. It's the ultimate form of disrespect to the fans. It's a blunt insult.

This kind of shit drives me absolutely up a wall. It's so awful. And what they say in this video is so spot on. Loki started out having such depth and gravitas and presence. He started off as such a commanding, attention grabbing, complex character. And now, he's just some guy who eats pie and talks about his feelings, but with a flippancy which tells you that he doesn't actually have any feelings at all. He's just a hollow cut out that's full of shit. It's such a god damn joke.

People shouldn't settle for this. They shouldn't praise it because 'well, it's not as bad as the first season'. Because that's such a high bar to clear? Loki getting kneed in the nuts over and over by Sif. That's the bar you're clearing. Loki falling in love with a variant of himself after knowing her for five whole minutes, for no discernible reason, because who the fuck would love Sylvie, the most obnoxious bitch in the universe ? Loki getting man-handled and getting his ass handed to him by a bunch of humans with taser sticks. Loki being made a fool of every other scene. Loki losing every fight he gets into. Loki being tricked and outsmarted at every turn. Loki being so narcissistic and brain dead, that he can't see when he's being manipulated. This guy is supposed to be a genius. He's supposed to be terrifyingly smart. Anyone who knows anything about this character knows that. But reverse psychology works on him, I guess.

So Loki does a little magic which, more than anything, just highlights the utter void of creativity in these writers minds, and we're supposed to cheer and clap? Loki is a god. Loki is the most powerful sorcerer in Asgard. He can do pretty much anything you can imagine. And this is the best they can come up with? He holds someone down with shadows on the wall. Wow. So impressive. Get the fuck out of here.

But that's really the problem. They've reduced Loki into such a shadow of what he once was, that even the barest crumbs of it that we get now, we get excited about. We praise and point to as proof that things are "better". They're not better, though. This Loki is still a clown and an idiot and acts and conducts himself in ways nothing like what was originally established with this character. This Loki still has nothing to do with the original character's story or history in the MCU. They make passing references to that history, and play it off for laughs, instead of actually delving deep into it and exploring it and helping the audience to really understand and sympathize with Loki as a character.

Loki talks here about being "angry" with Thor and Odin. Okay. That would be great, except he says it like it's a joke. Imagine if instead of that, it was actually treated seriously, and we finally, finally, got an examination of what Loki was going through emotionally during the first Thor film? Imagine if Loki actually got to acknowledge the devastation he felt when he found out he was a frost giant? If he got to really acknowledge the alienation and rejection he felt upon discovering he was the very thing that his own people, the Asgardians, had always considered to be lesser beings, and not only that, but literal monsters? Imagine if he got to really express the turmoil of that? Of finding out you come from a race of beings you were raised to believe were inferior, in all ways. If he was allowed to process why he had such an overwhelming emotional and mental breakdown, that he tried to destroy Jotunheim and then take over Midgard. Imagine if we got an actual acknowledgement of what lead up to all of that, with Loki feeling like an outcast, a reject among Thor's friends, among the Asgardians in general, always seen as lesser than Thor in everyone's eyes. Does nobody remember how disrespectful practically everyone was to Loki in the first Thor film? From servants to the Warriors 3 and Sif, to Heimdall. They all treated him like shit. Fucking Christ, there's a literal world of ideas and character depth to explore there, and they just... don't. They could have devoted the whole show to this and it would have been riveting. Imagine, imagine, imagine. But nope. Instead, we get a passing reference to it, written and delivered as if it was all some big comedic skit, and the rest of the show is about finding Kang so they can set up Avengers 5. Holy shit. People should not accept this as good. People should not praise or even give positive commentary on this because it's "better" than the first season. It's not better. It's more of the god damn same.

People shouldn't accept mediocrity. They should demand better. Because if they don't, Marvel and Disney will just keep putting this same shit out and think they can get away with it.

#Loki #loki series negativity #loki negativity #MCU #Marvel #Thor #Youtube

[babygirlthor]

let loki be morally grey challenge!! he doesn’t always have to be morally superior in comparison to thor in every way actually

#let them both have negative traits for gods sake cmon #it makes the characters tastier I promise #txt #thor #loki

[starlight-bread-blog]

Before I go on this rant, I'd like to remind you all that Loki is now the best version of himself. I don't like the way there, I don't like what they did with the character, but it is what it is. So, I gotta ask,

What About Thor?

Loki sacrificed his entire life to sitting at the end of time. Wouldn't he be sad to know he'll never get a chance to see Thor, ever? Thor will never know he's alive, that he's the reason his timeline isn't spaghetti? And Loki will never get a chance to say goodbye.

Last time he saw Thor was this:

Is this where this relationship is left off? As opposed to what the show would have you believe, Thor is one of, if not the most significant relationship Loki has. And that's where you're abandoning it? You're not gonna give it a passing nod before Loki's going to spend the rest of his life alone?

#i give them a free pass for not just bringing thor for a reunion #because it could have been impossiblr #but just mention the guy #loki #loki odinson #loki laufeyson #anti loki series #anti loki show #loki series criticism #loki series negativity #loki series critical #loki show negativity #loki show critical #loki show criticism #thor #thor odinson #loki of jotunheim #loki of asgard #loki 2011 #loki deserves better #in defense of loki #loki 2012 #avengers endgame #anti mcu #mcu critical #mcu criticism #mcu critique

[worstloki]

child Thor holds baby Loki’s hand for the first time and is so starry eyed about it that it doesn’t stop raining for a week.

#enough with storms happening only when Thor is experiencing negative emotions. #Thor gains a younger brother 44injured #asgard is DRENCHED #Odin gives Thor the hammer like ‘rein it in boy’

[beheworthy]

thor's thinks jane dumped him but the actual reality of the situation is that he left FIRST. it's presented clear as day in canon.

and yet the fandom blames her for leaving him when he left her.

even still, she never stopped loving him (wore that thunder necklace) and then she LITERALLY dies for him.

and yet the fandom blames her for not loving him and not deserving him.

fandom misogyny never fails.

#a woman can die for a man and they'd still say he deserved better #like all these people who treated him like dirt #text #fandom misogyny #fandom negativity #jane foster #thor #thor odinson #thor x jane #marvel #anyway she's the love of his life and he loves her the most #please stay mad abt it it fuels me

[ramrage]

I'm surprised no one is comparing how the loki series is more sbt Sylvie than loki. And how thor 4 isnt abt thor but abt jane. Bad comparison? It just seems that way

No, I pick up what you’re putting down. I need to rewatch both the movie and the series to make a more definitive statement but uh, fuck that! so we’re going off memory here:

Imho it was more egregious with the loki series. we had to be introduced to sylvie which required exposition time and while the whole Fuck Tha TVA thing effects (sic?) everyone, it was *really* her beef. Loki seemed to be pretty cool with the TVA all things considered (because ofc the god of mischief and chaos would vibe with bureaucracy) so him going against them seemed almost passive.

With Thor 4: More Thors Than Ever Before (TFMTTEB), we did need a bit of exposition for Jane’s situation, but most of the expo went towards “Lol New Asgard is so silly and Thor is so silly! He sucks, even!!” and the main issue was Gorr who was more so an issue for Thor. I’m unclear if Jane would also be a target, having the powers of Thor and all, but do the powers of Thor include godhood? Whatever! But the emotional struggle of the movie focused on her, unless you consider the core emotional issue to be Thor and Jane falling back in love or fucking whatever you call it.

But yes! I do see the parallel, for sure.

#ask #thor negativity #loki series negativity #thor movie negativity

[scintillatingshortgirl19]

ultimately something i think i'll just never get over re: the loki series is the fact that the time travel theme afforded so many opportunities to delve into the most core facets of loki's history and character (aka the things that formed the basis of literally every loki plotline and all his ~villainous deeds~) and allow him to finally reckon with that history - loki's jotun heritage, odin's manipulation/emotional abuse of both loki and thor, loki's suicide attempt, everything with thanos - and the creators were just. fundamentally and inexplicably not interested in any of that

#loki #like they would not even *touch* it beyond 'u killed ur mother' and occasional references to asgard/thor #they could've really delved into his dysfunctional family dynamics #we could've watched loki tackle his internalized racism #they could have explored the fact that one year ago loki felt so unloved by his father that he didn't want to fucking LIVE anymore #there could've been even so much as a brief acknowledgement #of his horrific experiences with one of the most evil and powerful beings in the universe #(you know. the situation he got out of literal DAYS before the beginning of this series) #and honestly i don't even mean to say that they didn't do interesting things with loki as a character in the series - they did! #it's just that they could have done so much MORE and it would have been so easy #and i hate that they ignored so much compelling material #and - especially - i hate that we will never get any kind of acknowledgement of any of the wrongs done TO loki #or a genuine exploration of his trauma #suicide mention #loki tv series #loki series negativity #op

[alwida10]

Loki season 1: divided the fandom in an unprecedented way.

Loki season 2: does what everyone thought impossible and unifies the fandom.

….

… in the shared feeling of disapproval regarding “the other” Loki fans.

#loki series negativity #loki series critical #loki series criticism #this is mostly for documentation of the crumbling fandom #the Loki series did what no Thor movie -not even ragnarok- managed #it doomed loki #Feige et al. never intended for him to keep him around as much as they ended up #all because of his massive fandom #and devoted fans #divide and conquer #they managed to divide the fandom which drives away massive amounts of fans #most of the remaining focus rather on infighting than fan-activities #it’s already obvious season 2 has much less hype than season 1 #this is the beginning of the landslide #the next installment after this will have even less #and then Loki will be remembered as he is shown in “his show” #Sylvie might prevail tho #she has potential

[madmadmilk]

I love that Marvel is changing and subverting expectations! I love they’re playing with genre, changing scenery and cheesing it up in their new projects— I’m pretty sure they’re doing it because fans/audiences expect the tried-and-tired formula, and how boring is that to just give it to you? Haha no more easy post credit lead ups— since they know that’s what we’re looking for. Why would you want the same endings for these new beginnings?

Honestly, If you want the “old Marvel” go rewatch the earlier movies, and if that still doesn’t satisfy you— read the comics, or better yet, read a fanfic.

Marvel movies and TV shows will always revolve around the themes of hope for the future, protecting your loved ones, and overall togetherness. It’s just being wrapped and written differently— deal with it. A big saga ended and we’re in the beginnings of a new one, so enjoy the ride. Some stories speak right into you, and some to the people around you. Even in the realm of blockbuster feel-good-superhero movies, we should challenge ourselves to witness newness. If it doesn’t appeal to you anymore, that’s fine, we move on! Just don’t dampen anyone else’s excitement on your way out. Similarly—Marvel and Disney shouldn’t peddle the same old same old (under even tighter deadlines) to keep bitter fans, and those “fans” need to stop asking for Cap and Iron Man. Their /main/ stories have been written and closed. Phew!

As longtime followers or new fans, we should be happy to enjoy these fresh, vivid worlds and feel the thrill of empowerment in new heroes! Your favorite characters would want you to ❤️

#❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ #lol other theme is military propaganda but I’m trying to stay positive lol #it’s just fun so you should keep it fun and not make hate rants #idk I’m just seeing a lot of negativity and it’s so BORING #aren’t the fanboys tired of complaining like maybe it’s not always about you #i have like several other marvel posts I want to make btw #marvel #she hulk #ms marvel #captain marvel #black widow #Shang chi #doctor strange #spider man #personal #madmadmilk #marvel studios #Thor love and thunder #Kate bishop #Loki #Hawkeye

[imposterogers]

yes jane has cancer in the comics but instead of introducing her just to kill her off, she should have STILL taken the mantle as the one and only thor. we should have been told from the beginning how her story ends, that she’s going to die bc her body is failing her slowly, but her journey should have lasted MULTIPLE films. we would have taken it with her, knowing there will never be a happy end to her story, but enjoyed the time we had her. instead....... well. what was even the point if i’m going to be honest 

#jane foster #mcu negativity #thor spoilers #spoilers #thor 4 spoilers #thor love and thunder spoilers #love and thunder spoilers

[pinktwingirl]

SO APPARENTLY THEY ACTUALLY USED CAT THOR LOKI AS CONCEPT ART FOR THE LOKI SERIES AW HELL TO THE NO YOU DO NOT GET TO TAKE STUFF FROM THE SQUIRREL GIRL COMICS FOR YOUR SHITTY ASS SHOW

MICHAEL WALDRON YOU BETTER WATCH YOUR BACK ‘CAUSE NANCY WHITEHEAD ABOUT TO SUE YOU FOR COPYRIGHT

Also as a side note it’s just so dumb ‘cause like… Cat Thor Loki wasn’t a “variant” of Loki??? Cat Thor was just a character from Nancy’s fanfiction comics that Loki shapeshifted into to annoy Thor because he thought it was funny they 100% just saw the image of Loki as a cat and decided to use it without actually reading the comics

#loki #squirrel girl #loki series #loki series negativity #doreen green #the unbeatable squirrel girl #unbeatable squirrel girl #nancy whitehead #cat thor #michael waldron #anti michael waldron #marvel #mcu #disney plus #mcu criticism

[unityrain24]

Both Thor Ragnarok and the Loki Series did some Bad Things (in terms of continuity, character, & more), but I think the biggest difference between them is that if Thor Ragnarok was it's own singular movie disconnected from the movies preceding it, it would have been a just fine movie in the mcu (which sort of defeats the purpose, but bear with me), whereas the Loki Series, even if it was its own, separate, individual entity, would still be an absolutely awful show. Does anyone else feel this way?

@nikkoliferous @alwida10

#loki #mcu loki #mcu criticism #loki series critisism #loki series slander #loki series negativity #loki series hate #thor ragnarok criticism #thor ragnarok