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starlight-bread-blog · 3 months

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Why Lokius Should Have Been Canon

This is a sort of combo of two metas that didn't quite get point my across. Some parts will be copied directly, but there's a lot of original content. I will discuss the ship between Loki and Mobius, their place in the show, and the MCU at large. My focus for this meta won't be parallels or motifs, because these things border on well-written friendships. But there will be some of that.

Romance in the MCU

There are a lot of straight couples in the MCU. (Almost) Every main hero is in some heterosexual relationship, Loki included.

(That's not all, not remotely).

But in the LGBTQ+ department... uh.. I think it was mentioned that Valkyrie had a girlfriend... uh... America Chavez had a pride pin... and Loki:

One line. Queer experiences are never a focal point of a show/movie the same way heterosexual experiences are. And that needs to change.

Romance In the Show

Wrong, toxic, or unsuccessfu romantic love is a recurring theme in the show.

Sylki

Sylki was an icky relationship right off the bat. They are the same person. I can't find the post at the moment, but someone has pointed out in their post that them being the same person is referenced in every episode in season 1 (edit: here it is), which is when the romance took place. This made their romance uncomfortable for many viewers.

(Some consider Sylki a toxic relationship, but for this post, the topic is too large to handle with the nuance I'd like to handle it with).

When he's drunk, Loki compares love to a dagger, stating that it hurts you, but when you try to find strength in it, it's not real.

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Which is exactly what happens. Sylvie pushes Loki into a portal and they never get back together.

The Love Triangle

In 02×03, Ravonna Renslayer is infatuated with Victor Timely, but he leaves her behind and betrays her when Miss Minutes told him to. One episode later, we discover that they were indeed an item, and established the TVA together. He Who Remains deleted her memories and they never rekindle their love.

Later in the episode, is the best example of "wrong" romance in the show. Miss Minutes, the AI clock, confesses her love to Viktor Timely. He, obviously, freaks out and shuts her off. Nothing ever comes of this.

Brad and Dox

This one is small, but a big indication to romance being a theme. In 02×01, we're shown this:

The gap in the age of the actors is uncomfortable, and a character in universe has this reaction to it. It is never mentioned again.

So what does all of this leave us with? Not much. None of this properly ties to the finale, or anything really. If I were to write the show I would cut a lot of this out, since it serves no purpose. But it does make you keep romance and its shortcomings in mind. The writers want it to be there, in the back of your head.

Loki and Mobius

Finally! I got to talk about them. The two people in question. First things first, who are they, together? They became really supportive, close friends.

Fans even drew parallels to Chaos & Order, which is a very important theme in Loki. But I'm not here to unpack them. These things don't necessarily make them in love. So what does make them in love? I'll present you my evidence, and you ask yourself,

Would it be valid to suggest romantic implications if a man and a women are:

1) Extremely thouchy with each other.

2) Riding on a tandem bike together.

3) Willing to suffer a fate worst than death for another.

4) Falling on each other after that^

5) Literally the Interrupted Declaration of Love trope. (Ex)

6) Being framed in a circle.

7) Waiting & giving permission to attack.

8) Fixing themselvs before seeing the other.

Of course yes. Maybe you think some of these are a strech, but ultimately, people would point out romantic connotations across the board. And I'm here, pointing them out right now. Some scenes between Loki and Mobius have romantic implications.

Conclusion

Loki is a queer protagonist in the MCU, a universe that lacks representation of queer experiences. His show constantlty reminded us of romance, sometimes for seemigly no reason. In the second season, they wrote him and his best friend with romantic implications. And then, nothing. It should not have been nothing. Lokius should have been canon.

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therese-lokidottir · 8 months

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What is wrong with you Marvel Studios!?

So, the TVA is just full stop Nazis at this point. Not even being subtle about it? They are Nazi. We have passed the point where the TVA have done more actions that the nazi have done then the MCU's version of Hydra. Don't come at me saying the TVA is meant to bad and you're not meant to like them because if that's the case what is all this?

This isn't just making a figurine for kids to play with or collectors to put on their shelves. This is selling people the means to play dress up as the incredible Nazi-coded characters. Does No one see the problem with this?

I know Hasbro sells Cobra and Decepticon merchandise but along with it they still sell GI joe and Autobot Merch. What's being sold with all this TVA merchandise? Maybe a few scant pieces of Sylvie stuff but also Loki dress up in the TVA aesthetic. All they have to sell to the audience is the fascists.

Did we all forget about this?

The promotion for Secret Empire was controversial, deservedly so but now several years later Marvel does the exact same thing and the reaction people have is, Loki getting what deserves and Mobius is so charming.

It doesn't seem like the TVA are going away. If rumors are to believed they're going to be in Deadpool 3 and if it doesn't contain Wade slicing these monsters to sherds that franchise can go crash and burn as well.Marvel please just stop

#marvel salt #mcu salt #marvel ridiculousness #anti tva #loki series criticism

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spooky-donut-ghost-house · 6 months

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Absolutely love that in Loki season 2 they blatantly make fun of Norse culture and say that the wooden Norse Odin, Baldr and Thor statue carvings are "dramatizations" and "highly insulting" and "glorified dioramas"

Real nice Disney real fucking nice/s /neg

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gloriousburden · 6 months

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question for any other fans of loki who specifically like the 2011 - 2013 versions of him:

if we did have a loki centered movie/series exploring either loki after the events of tdw, a prequel, or anything else, what would you guys want explored, explained, etc… in it? please add onto this, or even send me an ask! would love to see what you guys would think loki content should’ve consisted of/been about. or even just anything where various questions would’ve been answered. like more about his jotun heritage, his time with thanos between 2011 and 2012, etc..

please rb for reach, truly would love to see what everyone else thinks lol ^_^

loki cat gif bc i can’t get enough of them

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musclesandhammering · 1 year

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What irritates the hell out of me is that Loki has been described multiple times canonically as “the most powerful sorcerer in Asgard” and yet his powers are depicted the way that they are.

Asgard. A realm built around magic. And Loki is their most powerful sorcerer. He should be just as strong as Wanda tbh.

#anti loki series #loki series criticism #marvel critical #anti wanda maximoff #loki deserved better

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magpie-murder · 7 months

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we can all agree that the mcu loki deleted scenes are good, right? which means that, logically, the show will become good if they just delete all the scenes :)

#váli.txt #loki #loki series criticism #loki series critical #loki critical #loki show critical #anti loki show #anti loki series #mcu critical #mcu criticism

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galaxythreads · 6 months

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okay, here's the thing about the loki series that I came to the conclusion to a few days ago. If you want a series that explores the aftermath of the Avengers in any meaningful way (or Loki's past actions), then the series isn't for you. Unfortunately, given the timeline that they presented us with, most people who watched the show thought it would be about that (myself included). As s2e5 has shown us though, the Loki series isn't really about Loki. It's about Loki and his relationship with the characters from the TVA, mainly Mobius. If you have no interest in the two, then the show doesn't work and is extremely boring.

Unfortunately, unlike other TV series and movies, the series didn't really delve into Loki's psychology. Moon Knight had an entire episode dedicated to Marc/Steven, so did WandaVision. I think that when a series doesn't have that background dig on a character, that the audience is actually really, deeply unhappy with it. The same thing happened with the Falcon and Winter Solider that has with Loki. The audience doesn't care. Secret Invasion had the same problem. Like the plot is happening, but that's not the point. No one cares about the plot, its' just a nice back drop. We want the psychology dig. I just don't see us getting that in episode 6, though.

One of the things I was personally hoping would happen in episode 5 is that Loki would do more timeline jumping, but timeline jumping on his timeline, not gathering the TVA. I wasn't unhappy with it, but I was disappointed because I wanted to see what they could do with it. I wanted the psychology dig. But again, the Loki series isn't about Loki. It's about Loki and his relationship to the TVA.

#loki series #loki series criticism #anti loki series #loki season 2 #loki season 2 spoilers #i guess this is critism?#personally I just think it's like an analysis but idk #like personally i do find loki and mobius to be interesting and i'm enjoying the ride #so i'm not angry at this #it's just like a huh moment for me #because as i was reading through loki series stuff this was a common complaint ^ that the avengers wasn't explored #and its like the series wasn't MADE to explore that #even though we all thought it would

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humandisastertonystark · 7 months

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They did not actually make him say this

They did not just—

"Remember the time I was left to die by my abusive father, got captured, tortured and threatened to be brutally murdered if I don't attack earth under constant supervision?

... Yeah, me neither because you and the producers of this show gaslit me into thinking that was just a temper tantrum of an egoistical narcissistic god."

#loki #anti loki series #loki series criticism #fuck you marvel #someone fire the producers of this series is2g #loki season 2 #tired of this bs

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latent-thoughts · 7 months

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It's funny how people accused Loki of being a fascist/genocidal maniac/evil autocrat back in 2012, even though there were clear indications of him being under the influence of the mind stone + Thanos' torture and indoctrination + going through a phase of severe mental breakdown (in Thor 1).

And now people are embracing the fact that (not)Loki* is becoming a loyal dog of the TVA--a fascist, genocidal organisation which kills whole universes in one go without so much as blinking, puts people in gas chambers to alter their minds, tortures people into submission (which Mobius actually did to (not)Loki), only because one person (Kang) decided that one timeline was sacred and the rest expendable.

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics being utilised here.

* I'm using (not)Loki because whatever this character is, he's certainly not the Loki of 2011-2013.

#loki series #loki series critical #loki series criticism #mobius #tva #marvel #marvel bullshit

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starlight-bread-blog · 7 months

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Within the Loki series, taken out of who Loki was in phases 1-3, Lokius is seriously growing on me.

Loki and Mobius have a great bond, built on support and understanding.

Sylki is selfcest, Loki x Loki. We won't be missing out on anything. (In fact, I think it'd be for the best). I can easily see this going on the romance route.

But from what I remember, I wouldn't call it queerbaiting. Nor would I cite it as a reason to ship them.

My reason is good mlm representation from Disney.

There are a lot of straight couples in the MCU. (Almost) Every main hero is in some heterosexual relationship, Loki included.

And that's not even all the relationships, there are more.

But in the LGBTQ+ department... uh.. I think it was mentioned that Valkyrie had a girlfriend... uh... America Chavez had a pride pin... and Loki:

Wow!! How brave!! That is trurly MAGNIFICENT!! Cynicism aside, I'm sure the writers cared for the representation. I don't know them. But in the context of the MCU doing the bare minimum, it's icky.

One might argue that Loki is bisexual, therefore it's biphobic to suggest that he has to be in a gay relationship in order to be bi enough. Let me be clear, you are bi enough regardless of who you date.

However, as a bisexual person myself, I strongly disagree. The MCU has been giving us nothing but crumbs. Disney doesn't give a fuck about good representation. They want to attract queer wallets, but still keep it short enough to delete the scene for Russia and China. Us queers deserve better.

There was an opportunity to break out of this pattern, to give us an exploration of a queer experience. But we weren't given that. Time and time again, we aren't given that. And I fundamentally reject the notion that it's biphobic to criticize them for it.

Lokius could have been the MCU's first healthy queer relationship of a main character that is given an arc. I'm rooting for them all the way.

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alyceinwonderland777 · 2 months

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I said what I said. Good evening.

#Loki #Loki Laufeyson #Sif #Lady Sif #Loki Series #loki series criticism #i said what i said #Twitter #X #marvel #mcu

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lucianalight · 6 months

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Loki S2 Review

I rewatched S2 and I liked it even more on the second watch. I'm giving it a 6 out of 10 in average(8 for the finale). Since I didn't post a review week by week like for S1, I'm just going to talk about the main things I liked/disliked

The Improvements & Things I liked:

The pace and the narrative's tone and framing have changed. While the pace drops sometimes, these moments aren't as boring as S1. Meaning you don't want to constantly check when it's going to end(like you know, S1 and especially 1x06). The narrative is neutral and doesn't villain code Loki and hero code others. It doesn't turn Loki into a clown, a punching bag or someone who deserves humiliation(I guess they've done enough of that in S1). On the contrary the characters are shown as flawed people, with Loki being the most moral, considerate, logical and heroic amongst them.

They stated bluntly in episode 1, that what TVA used to do, were atrocities. That they were killing numerous innocent people who had a right to live their lives as they chose.

The characters were three dimensional, likable or tolerable despite their actions in S1. They showed remorse for the things they had done. Although the way the narrative chose to go about it in S1 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It shouldn't happen to you for you to realize sth is wrong. But at least it was shown that the characters weren't slaughtering people mindlessly and some of them deep down knew it was wrong. Although the fact that they still did it, because of the "greater good", and "woe is me! It's not a comfort it's a burden" attitude about it is repulsive.

OB, Casey and Timely being funny, cute nerds and fanboys :D

Loki using amazing magical stuff and DID YOU SEE THE GREEN MAGICAL GLOW IN HIS EYES?*incoherent screaming*

No Romance. It was unnecessary and rushed in S1. This time they focused more on Loki needing friends and that was definitely a better choice imo and what they should have gone for in S1 too.

Sylvie's actions and personality framed as what they were. She wasn't put on a pedestal as this amazing different FeMaLe version of Loki. She was framed as a flawed character with wrong and right actions and beliefs.

Loki and Sylvie's talk in the pie land, about change, hope, fixing what's broken and being gods. That sigh before Loki saying "We are gods" with all the weight of the world on his shoulders. Wonderful acting.

The ending and its epic soundtrack.

Topics & Things That Could Have Been Handled Better:

The Topic of New York Invasion

"Sometimes a rage builds up and you just gotta let it out. Do you remember that time I was so angry with my father and my brother, I went down to Earth and I held the whole of New York city hostage with an alien army? Tried to use the mind stone on Tony Stark? It didn't work so I threw him off the building. It wasn't tactical. I lost it"

On the surface it looks like Loki's saying that's why he attacked New York and probably most people accept this without a second thought.

But the context of the scene matters. We see during the interrogation Mobius loses his temper. He was worried about Loki getting angry, but he was the one who loses his temper and hits Brad. Loki tries to calm him down by sympathizing with him to try and see what caused his behavior. It's the same thing he did for Thor in the first movie, before coronation and after it, while Thor was nervous and angry. What he says about New York while isn't the whole truth, it also isn't untrue. He was angry with Thor and Odin but as we know his anger and thoughts were influenced by the scepter. We also know Loki doesn't like to talk about his time with Thanos or being tortured. Instead he uses a half-truth, sth that is in character for Loki.

So the scene can be rationalized by this analysis but it's still annoying that this analysis is even needed. They should have been clear about the scepter's influence especially when mcu confirmed it.

Loki thinking about Thor's change as being a weakness. While both Thor and Loki were groomed and taught to consider being soft as a weakness, that wasn't Loki's true feelings. At least I don't think someone who prefers words and magic-that are considered a weakness in Asgard-over brawn thinks like that. His goal in the first movie was to goad Thor into fighting him. So the line should have been sth like this: "Asgard taught us being soft is a weakness, so I used that against Thor to goad him into a fight. I said he's gone soft…"

Plotholes and things that weren't explained.

Why Loki and Sylvie weren't sent to their original timelines like others? And why neither of them showed any interest in seeking their family? You're telling me Loki wants to see these people he knows for 10 seconds more than Frigga or Thor? OOC.

Sylvie's sudden mastery of magic since 1x06 isn't explained. She didn't know much, but then suddenly could do everything Loki did. I mean I can headcanon that her and Loki linking their power taught her some things but these sudden developments without any explanations are annoying.

Loki's genderfluidity. No mention of it at all. Although I believe that no representation is better than bad representation. And you should leave a topic alone if you don't understand it, otherwise you're gonna mess it up. Because bad rep can be more harmful. And so maybe it was a good thing mcu let that one go. But they could still fix it with some shapeshifiting, explaining its difference with illusions and Loki confirming that he is comfortable in her female form.

Loki's clothes. It's probably not that important in comparison with other issues but I really hate that beige suit. Why Sylvie who doesn't even want to be Loki and wasn't in Asgard since childhood changes into an Asgardian outfit for a fight and not Loki? Yeah I get it. It was because of the last reveal and transformation and finding his identity blah blah blah but at least they could have gave him his old Asgardian clothes or he could change the suit's color ugh

Criticism & Things I didn't like:

The ooc moments for Loki in some comedic scenes. Especially in episode 5. While the character has a comedic potential, it's not based on clownery or clumsiness. The best humorous moments for Loki are the ones where he outwits others, use sarcastic language or he is being outwitted despite his careful plans.

Certain emotional stakes aren't clear from the start. The audience know that saving TVA is the right thing because it protects all the freed timelines but they don't know why they should care? Or more accurately why Loki is so emotionally invested in this goal. That gets answered in episode 5 and while Loki's talk with Sylvie is a good emotional scene, the fact that it's stated so late in the story, makes the first few episodes boring when it comes to saving TVA.

The main reason the emotional stakes aren't clear(at least for me), I believe is because most of the people Loki call them his "friends", haven't done anything to either deserve his friendship or aren't close enough to be considered a friend. Let alone someone Loki tries to move heaven and hell to be with them, instead of for example trying to find his brother and family. It is an issue which again is rooted in S1 and carried to S2. What happened in S1 wasn't therapy or a healthy friendship.

However, Loki being loyal to anyone who show him an ounce of affection or him being moral enough to try to save people are in character for him and that's sth good about it.

The torture scene.

The trick Mobius and Loki pulled was predictable as hell. I didn't even doubted Loki in TDW, let alone here. And even though I didn't believe for one second that Loki's actually going to hurt the guy, and he wasn't shown enjoying it, I still hated that he went along with the torture idea Mobius had come up with. Especially considering the fact that he was a victim of torture himself and never shown any sign in canon that he would torture someone. So yeah I hated that scene.

And why that scene was even necessary? Loki could get into X-5's mind when they weren't in TVA. We know he is capable of it. He did it both through mind stone in Avengers and in TR. how else they were going to delve into Mobius' problem though smh

But alright let's say they needed a scene like that. Still the whole Brad believing Mobius is against torture, and Loki's the one who would be in favor of it, is so fucking ridiculous. Any way you look at it, it has always been TVA and Mobius who did any torture we've seen during the two seasons. The tortures that Loki endured might I add. Even in the previous scene, it was Loki who didn't hit Brad and only tried to intimidate him non-physically by acting as a villain. It was Mobius who hit him, who was shown more affected by Brad's insults. So logically the scene they had planned to fool Brad, should have been played completely the opposite way. By having Mobius do the torture. At least it was recognized that the torture idea was from Mobius and both he and Loki gave the credits for it to Mobius.

Verity Willis. Hunter B15 unlike the Verity in comics, doesn't have a close friendship with Loki or truth detector powers. Not having a good friend like comics Verity for Loki, was such a wasted opportunity in the series.

Mobius saying to Loki "You're a man of action...". That was such a stupid, unnecessary line. As if the main difference between Loki and Thor wasn't Thor acting before thinking, and Loki thinking and planning before acting. While Loki is also a man of action, he is first and foremost a man of strategy. The only plausible explanation imo is that Mobius said it to not feel useless in comparison with Loki and his skills.

"Thor's not that tall". Yeah, no. I don't think Loki's reaction to seeing Thor and Odin's statues would be that. Knowing his brother and family were murdered by the very same people he's working with now. Remind me again why he's considering them "FrIeNdS"? Someone really needs to explain the concept of friendship to Loki. Or rather the writers of this show.

And while we are at it. Let's talk about how Loki's past and identity issues were completely swapped under the rug as if they were all magically fixed and didn't matter anymore. As if those weren't the most important part of his journey. Another issue rooted in S1.

Final Thoughts(for now :D)

Season 2 was definitely better than season 1. Not perfect, and not for those who care about OG Loki's issues. They set him on a completely different path in S1 and they messed up any chance to actually delve into his problems. So in S2 we're having a character that we're supposed to accept has moved on from certain issues, and now tries to find what he wants and where he belongs. Still, I think that they listened to the criticism for once as they tried to fix some of the problems of S1. After many years it didn't feel like that the creators hate the character, or using him as a prop, or a plot device. It was a story about Loki. A bittersweet story for the god of stories.

#me: i liked this season #also me: here's a list of all its issues :D #loki s2 review #long post #loki #loki series criticism #loki s2 positivity

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