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#fandom negativity
kingreywrites · 35 minutes ago
Why do you think the sister argument is stupid? I mean no disrespect, it’s just that Raps seems to see Cass as a sister, and they even used that relationship in an episode title. I’d just like to see your point of view
gshjdkd okay like, to be fair if you wanna interpret these moments as "Rapunzel sees Cass as a sister" it's fine i guess. As long as you're not weird about it aka as long as you don't go telling people that this interpretation is the only right one and no one is allowed to ship them.
I personally have... some troubles with this idea though, mostly because the angle they used most of the time is "they are sisters because of GOTHEL" as if gothel was a mother to them??? She kidnapped Rapunzel and didn't even raise Cass, she's no mother and certainly not the reason they have a link
If it had been meant more as in "we're found family" maybe but then again... idk. It doesn't really work for me. Each time Rapunzel uses the term sister, it hurts cass and it's kinda a clumsy way for Rapunzel to try to connect with her, which she failed to do the two times she said it out loud. In Rapunzel's Return, she's desperately trying to make Cass listen to her and just angers her more about Gothel abandoning her, and in the Great Tree, her tentative to reassure Cass that she cares about her expertise kinda comes off as dismissive, which worsens the situation. It always felt, to me, that Rapunzel uses that word when the communication with Cass is broken, and so she tries to re establish a link by emphasising their bond, but... yeah, imo they don't actually read as sisters, just friends with a lot of issues.
It makes sense to me that Rapunzel would convince herself that their bond is as "unbreakable" as one between sisters but I think she's just... not right about this, that it's part of why she doesn't realise all their issues until it's too late because she's idealising their friendship (after all, if cass is like a big sister, she won't leave right? They're gonna stick together and figure stuff out as "family". I don't think Rapunzel even suspected that Cass could want to leave until she did, because in her mind Cass is not just any friend - and that's how I tend to interpret the sister comment, as part of Rapunzel not understanding that if she pushes Cass too much, she will hurt their friendship irreparably. Idk, it's not a foolproof interpretation, but it makes sense to me)
(Unrelated to that but I'm also not sure how the sisterly bond is supposed to work when cass actively rejects it anyway... gjdjdhd)
Also, by the "sister argument" i mostly meant the people arguing that cassunzel is an incest ship because rapunzel and cass are sisters. The ask seemed to sort of imply that it was wrong to ship them because they were meant as sisters, and I personally think it's an extremely stupid way of thinking. Once again, they are not sisters, they were not adopted and raised together by the same mother, they do not share the same blood, they are Not Sisters. Not in any sense of the word. If you wanna see them as such then why not but the fact that many people use this against people who just want to ship these two characters together is annoying, while being plain wrong as far as canon goes.
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trashcanprince · 8 hours ago
I wanted to say thank you for your tweets a while ago about how the It fandom bullies people. So many people had to delete their stories and accounts for totally benign stuff because of that one group of friends putting anyone on blast they disagreed with. The whole fandom is super toxic and really groupthink-y because of them so I had to leave.
heyy, thank you, im sorry to hear you felt the need to leave if it was something you enjoyed. i wasn’t sure if i wanted to reply to this just because, nothing against you, but i dont think its super productive to demonise any one group of friends, theres a bunch of prominent friend groups in the fandom and people i get along with as well as ppl ive had issue with in a number of them. but yeah i think the main issue i’ve had with the fandom is a lot of instances where person A has made a drawing/headcanon/post that is fairly innocuous and person B has decided to interpret it in the worst way possible. and then instead of privately discussing the issue person B makes a public (often vague) post about it. then a bunch of other people that never saw person A’s post to begin with will start giving their opinions. I think when you see any sort of post that is targeted against someone it’s really worthwhile to either just ignore it or at least look into the issue and get the context before joining in on the conversation. I always try to take accusations against others with a grain of salt if I haven’t witnessed the actual thing especially because in my personal experience within the fandom I was accused on multiple occasions of things that are blatant lies.
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worstloki · 11 hours ago
Ragnarok Loki is Loki actually making moves toward growing up bye
Just because you don’t like a thing doesn’t mean it’s Objectively Bad Actually. I Statements are your friend.
Anon darling, I would like you to tell me one move Loki made towards “growing up” that wasn’t ‘Loki let’s go of the issue he had with X’ because what I’m seeing when the movie skips over development to frame the conclusion of ‘Loki’s fine with being jotun and having been lied to and being treated unequal to Thor and punished unfairly’ as something implicit I’m not seeing anything but Loki's narrative being sidelined to the point where breakdowns were tantrums and holding a grudge (which he in my opinion had every right to do if he wanted to) is an overreaction.
That Loki’s ‘moving on’ features resigning himself to continued bad treatment but now no longer complaining about it... shouldn’t be where the character ends up or what he amounts to neither generally or as a continuation of his arc from the previous movies in my opinion, not when he had legitimate grievances that still haven’t been so much as acknowledged.
Just because you like a thing doesn't mean it's Objectively Good Actually either. It is very clear you haven't taken the time to look into posts/interviews detailing why, objectively, the film is a retcon, (along with a majority of posts which thoroughly make clear when things *are* a matter of opinion) but I see that you are happy to criticize whilst not using any 'I statements' yourself.
If you see character changes as consistent continuity that's fine! I've got to remind you that being critical is okay though, and that everyone is free to how they see things.
Additionally, I think you need to hear that a post detailing negative points of a movie is not equivalent to saying there aren't positive factors.
#''Just because you don’t like a thing doesn’t mean it’s Objectively Bad Actually'' ANON I ENJOY RAGNAROK BUT NO#THE MOVIE ACTUALLY DOES HAVE VERY CONVOLUTED MESSAGES AND A LOT OF IT IS DUE TO FRAMING#EVEN IF I COMPLETELY IGNORE THE ABSOLUTE DEMOLITION OF THE MAIN CHARACTER'S ARC AND CHARACTERIZATION AND ABUSE APOLOGISM#ignore the yelling#even if I ignore all that objective actions in the film everyone is free to interpret diegetic factors and build their own opinions#but as someone who enjoys both the critical thinking off and the analysis side of discussions#i do find the summation of a character who has (supposedly) gotten over his many issues as 'growing up' not good anyway#because there WAS legitimate trauma behind his bad actions and while it's not in any way an excuse for anything it made him compelling#ragnarok essentially decided that 'nah loki's over all that haha also treating him bad is funny bc he kinda deserves it'#after Thor 1 Avengers 1 and Thor 2 established Loki's villainous behaviour as unlike him to do#the movie was fun and loving it is fine! i don't mind the changes to loki even though marvel is generally insulting and sidelines abuse!#i think the main issue is that a lot of people insist that the characters are the same when even their previous actions are retconned#if you find the characters consistent well good for you! enjoy your film! but there IS objective proof that the movie is bad#where we're not defining 'bad' by how entertaining something is because THAT is subjective#it's not like Ragnarok is the only 'bad' marvel movie and criticism of the films is usually backed up with canon/proof#on the note of which you may realize that someone else saying a movie is bad doesn't mean you have to agree#you're allowed to look away or read about why they think that or skip the post because it doesn't matter and fandom is supposed to be fun#if you don't like seeing anything negative about marvel then ignore the posts#most of the meta i see is neutral it just doesn't praise the movie for stuff it didn't do :/#feel free to send another anon in to argue or discuss anything i've said because i'm not trying to say it's bad to like the film#like... it's completely fine to prefer the Ragnarok characterisation?? the entire tone of the movie is more comedic so consider that too#marvel messes up loads of characters and their arcs idk why everyone likes to argue when people say loki was changed too#i think it might ACTUALLY be a case of ''i liked the thing so it's objectively good so don't say anything bad about it'' for a lot of fans#a lot of people know the character is different and still love/prefer the ragnarok loki#seriously everyything is fine no one is saying dont like the thing#no one is insulting you personally for deciding people who were abused/traumatised need to 'grow up'#it's about how Ragnarok acted as a standalone rather than something that was inherited as continued part of an established universe#and how that kinda maybe obliterated a lot of old stuff to recreate the characters#truly fitting for a movie named Ragnarok#i think I get why they called it that despite the limited links to mythology now
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totem-of-ungaying · 11 hours ago
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When Eret uses all pronouns you guys have no issue with switching pronouns for him mid sentence but when Ponk comes out that they also use all pronouns suddenly you guys have never heard of anything other than he/him.
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carpedzem · 17 hours ago
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Whenever I have to leave my bubble it is such a crush with reality of what this fandom really is and how biased their opinions are
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independence1776 · 20 hours ago
5, 6, and 23?
[Salty meme questions here.]
Being sure to state this up front: my opinions only. I’m a firm believer in “create what you want” so please do not take this as browbeating.
5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?
I spent three weeks in Sequels fandom right after TFA came out and I read a number of ships. I want to touch none of them now.
6. Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?
Huh. I don't think I have a "yes" answer here. I don't often seek out shipfic outside of canon ships and my tiny pairings and triads (ironically enough, all non-canon ships involve Jedi despite a previous answer of mine to this meme was "I don't understand why people ship Jedi"). I might be convinced of the ship for the duration of the fic, but if the fic is tagged with a ship I hate, I simply won't read it.
7. Unpopular character you love?
Oh, that's an easy one. Hardest part is determing which is more hated by fandom: Katooni and the other Jedi younglings from the Gathering arc or Mace Windu. Because I love both of them.
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independence1776 · 21 hours ago
For Salty Asks: 1, 7, and 19 for Star Wars (any variety thereof, whether films, books, or TV), please?
[Salty meme questions here.]
Being sure to state this up front: my opinions only. I'm a firm believer in "create what you want" so please do not take this as browbeating.
1. What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?
Sadly the canon one for Rebels, but at least I can read fic with it because it's a "didn't see at all in canon" instead of "hate the sight of." Any ship for Luke that isn't Mara Jade. Any ship involving Jedi who aren't Anakin (I'll accept past Obi-Wan/Satine). The last especially because… the Jedi don't need romance. Why put romance and shipping in?
7. Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now?
There's quite a few 1990s Legends books I loved as a kid and purged a while ago because I don't like them anymore. (Kevin J. Anderson, I'm looking at you.)
19. What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom?
About the fandom itself? That people can't leave other people alone if they disagree about something. There's no cause to go after someone for liking something or someone or some ship. Block, quit reading, leave them alone, and find something you do enjoy to interact with instead.
I should not be afraid to post Jedi-positive fics, but I am.
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smiletwt · 21 hours ago
feel free to ignore this since it’s more of the same, but in my opinion one reason dream stans are so critical of him is that some of them come from fandoms where the discussion is about characters. i feel like there aren’t many fandoms based on real people that are this big, and some fans struggle to understand that dream is just some guy, not a perfect fictional character. if he’s straight you can’t just headcanon he isn’t, if he fucks up you can’t say it’s ooc. he’s a human being with flaws like everyone else
okay i was waiting for an opportunity to come back to this cos i wanted to use this as a springboard to talk about how people respond to content they follow, both fictional or otherwise
first of all, i think your point is extremely valid! i've been on the internet since. goddamn forever. and in that time there have been many many many fandoms i've been a part of in some capacity, ranging from those for entirely fictional media to those based around real people. obviously this would mean having a very different fandom experience depending on whether you're a fan of an actual person or a character. HOWEVER... given that the median age of the mcyt/dsmp fandom is fairly young, it's entirely possible that this is either the first or one of the first fandoms for a lot of folks. and that leads to the exact problems you mentioned, if these people don't have much experience with being fans of real people
but ! to dig a bit deeper ! i would argue that the same issues you see when it comes to responses to cc behaviour are just as prevalent in fictional media - it's just a matter of the fallout being different. like, if you're going into a story with black & white thinking, you might be missing out on a lot of the nuance of the characters/plot, but ultimately it's not going to hurt anyone (assuming you're not like. making it everyone else's problem. but that's another can of worms). bringing that b&w mentality to actual human beings, though, is a recipe for disaster. humans are fallible, humans make mistakes - just like characters can - but unlike characters, they're Real. they have agency, and feelings, and the ability to actually internalise the backlash. a character won't care if you ream them, whether we're talking about valid criticism or just clowning on them for whatever reason, but a cc just might. and that's something people could stand to keep in mind
all this to say i think people are still pretty surface level when they approach fictional characters with any level of complexity (hell, the dsmp is a great example of this). it just so happens to be Worse when we're looking at actual people
ALSO to your final point - yeah uhhh people need to stop making headcanons about real human beings. have fun with your fic or art or whatever, but keep it away from the actual ccs, yeah ?? this goes for speculation into their personal lives in Any capacity - like you said, a person cannot be ooc. it's just ... how they are lol
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laufire · a day ago
from the aos fandom: the ward skyeward discourse (both pro and anti), jemma being more popular in fandom than may and daisy, the notion that f*tzsimmons is the best ship ever
Skyeward and Ward are the definition of old news. Who cares anymore lol. In all seriousness, I did enjoy the dynamic back in s1-2, pre and post-reveal; as well as the Framework version in s4. I tended to be in no man's land with it, because I neither haaaaaated it and wanted it gone, nor did I want a redemption arc with Ward with endgame Skyeward. I just found it interesting as it was, within the entirety of Daisy's journey.
Jemma was yet another case of a fandom reacting negatively (although with less intensity than in say, Smallville or The Flash) to a female lead of colour by latching onto the white girl they thought "should" be more central than her. It was a milder case (in part thanks to Skyeward lmfao), and back at the beginning I at least liked Jemma, so it didn't bother me as much as some other examples, but it was still annoying.
Regarding FS... best and worst ships can be a bit subjective, ig, but if someone told me the genuinely think it's THE best ever, I'd tell them to try other canons lol. It wasn't my thing from early on, as a reactive ship on Jemma's part; it only started bothering me in s5, though. But it was the SOLE reason I quit on s6, and I still haven't watched it to this day. They were supremely annoying about each other, acting like asses to those around them to prove their ~~precious love (Jemma screwing over Daisy and the team to get to Fitz, Fitz's treatment of Enoch, etc.). There was an episode where they mindshared or something, and they were SO IRRITATING THERE I quit on the spot.
Then I returned in s7, and it reconciled me a little with them... because there's barely any Fitz content lmfao. He's only in the finale, and they don't intrude on anyone's plot like they did in s5-6. They're just there, easy for me to ignore. That's the best a notp can do for you!
send me an Accepted Fanon Wisdom (general, specific to one fandom, etc.) that you disagree with and annoys you, and I’ll tell you my opinion on it.
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ranbutler · a day ago
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god, the like/reblog ratio thing wouldnt be this damn frustrating if it was consistent, but it actually seems to hit art the most
like, this is a piece of my fanart (1/7)
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and this is a shitpost (1/3)
ik im like a relative beginner artist and stuff, but this is still pretty demotivating??
reblog art mcytblr :(
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grace13star · a day ago
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if you actually think c!wilbur manipulated c!tommy in pogtopia or l’manberg you have no idea what that word means
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anytruers · a day ago
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it's so frustrating how even dream's own subtwt will deliberately misconstrue his words or actions, make an issue out of it, and then expect him to address the issue that they made up. dream doesn't word something perfectly and it blows up in his face in near-immediate speed, like every time. and then fans have the audacity to complain and spam him and roll their eyes when they don't get the apology thread (and even if they do get the apology thread, it's once again poorly-worded and therefore unacceptable).
like people will literally complain about dream getting constantly dragged by antis, and then turn around and spend their days pouring over and nitpicking his every word and action, trying to find something wrong. like can he catch a break? can he catch a break. the dude is getting doxxed & sent death threats DAILY but everyone forgets as soon as he stumbles through a tweet. it's infuriating
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smiletwt · a day ago
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actually you know what i'm gonna say it with my whole chest
imagine if people demanded this sort of performative activism from actors, or musicians, or whoever else is in the spotlight. why are fans suddenly demanding that these twitch streamers become the face of activism for every single issue? like christ yeah it's good to get vocal support from your faves, especially given how prevalent discrimination and oppression still are across the board, but WHY are we expecting these young mc players to be the voice of change? they didn't sign up for this. they probably don't have the right knowledge or vocab to speak on these nuanced issues. that's not to say they're immune to criticism, but it does make one wonder why we're holding them up as these paragons of virtue. if people were to direct their energy toward uplifting actual activists - or supporting existing causes - i think we'd see a lot more productive growth
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messed-up-gal · a day ago
Well, I wouldn’t say it was that shitty! More so a joke that was very poorly received by almost everyone cause it seemed like Tommy was undermining what Schlatt has done/said. Landed bad and now this whole situation happened.
tbh I feel for the guy, I really do. He seems willing to be educated on these pressing matters (when he in no way has to do that because he is a 16/17 year old cishet white male) and why some things shouldn’t be said, can’t really do that when you get mobbed after making a mistake or wording something wrong.
Nope, I actually think that he has some kind of moral obligation to learn about them, precisely because he is a cishet, white guy, and marginalized people his age already do know about these things, but not of their own volition. When I bring up Tommy's demographic, it's not to say he doesn't have to educate himself; it's to say that he doesn't need to already have been educated because we can't expect privileged people to just automatically know things that seem obvious to marginalized people. Things that are obvious to us are obvious because it is imperative to our survival, or because we were pushed into positions of oppression that forced us to learn them. Therefore, every privileged person absolutely has an imperative to learn about the shit they're uneducated about, no doubt.
But anyways, I agree with the rest of your ask, anon. The only thing I wish out of this movement of mcytblr stans (and hopefully at least some mcyttwt stans) finally coming out to say that you can't just mob a CC and expect them to learn from their errors immediately and without repercussions to their mental health, is that it'd come sooner, when concerning CCs that are less beloved than Tommy. Remember Andi? I remember that entire night, during which she was bombarded with hate for the most vague of bigoted jokes, or worse yet, out-of-context quotes that weren't actually offensive. I wish this sentiment had been shared back then, concerning a much smaller, less privileged CC who wasn't at all helped or educated by the swathes of people coming out to attack her, jfc. Or even Eret, who now might be given leeway and empathy from mcyt stans, but certainly wasn't back when they were cancelled repeatedly.
But better late than never, amirite?
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