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wrenhyperfixates · 3 years

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Milkshakes

Pairing: Loki x reader Summary: Overwhelmed when Loki saves you, you respond to his kindness with fear. Determined to apologize, you seek Loki out to thank him with a couple of milkshakes and some fries. Warnings: a tad angsty but much fluff A/N: This is actually one of my favorite fics I’ve ever written. Hope you all enjoy :)

Permanent Tag List: @lucywrites02 @frostedgiant @lunarmoon8 @twhiddlestonsstuff @lokistan @lowkeyorlokificrecs @gaitwae @whatafuckingdumbass @castiels-majestic-wings @kozkaboi @cozy-the-overlord @birdgirl90 @myraiswack @mythicalgarlicknot @what-a-flammable-heart @marvelouslovely

Disclaimer: Picture not mine

Of course it had to be during your lunch break that a supervillain attacked the city. Of course today you decided to go out to eat instead of packing something. And, of course you had to be walking by the building right as it crumbled. You started praying to any god that there may be to save you from being crushed. Though, you hadn’t actually expected one to save you.

In the moments before you would have been flattened, Loki put an arm around your waist, pulling you close to him. Raising his free hand, a glimmering green force field appeared around you. The falling matter bounced off of it and landed around you, the shield offering strong protection. Of course you were thankful to be rescued, but did have to be Loki? You knew he was supposedly reformed, but so many news outlets still ran stories about how he was dangerous. A ticking time bomb. You’d never quite formed an opinion on him, and it was causing great conflict in you now. On the one hand, he looked very intimidating from this close, what with his impressive stature and horned helmet and all. But on the other, he was saving you from the actual super villain destroying the city. Perhaps if there wasn’t so much going on, you could think more clearly. Alas, your thoughts were a messy, confused jumble, leaving you fearful of the super-powered god in front of you.

“Are you alright?” he asked in his deep, smooth accent as the shield shimmered away into nothing. The god brought his arm to shield your eyes from the small pieces of debris still falling, the other one still around your waist in a protective manner. “Are you injured at all?

“I, um, uh, I- I,” you stammered, backing up. “Mhm. All good. Uhhh, thanks.”

You were certain you must be the most awkward person in history, but instead of making fun of you, Loki just looked sad. Even with the hurt behind his eyes, his arms shot out to catch you when you stumbled over the wreckage. He guided you away from the obstacles to a place where you could walk unhindered. He moved back from you as soon as he’d finished escorting you.

“You are welcome,” he finally responded. “I am sorry for frightening you. You should get somewhere safe.”

Without waiting for a reply, he left to rejoin the battle. You started retreating from the scene, steering as clear of any large structures as you could, cursing yourself the whole time. Loki had saved you, and you’d been afraid of him. What kind of nonsense was that? And you were certain he got that kind of reaction all the time, based on the way he’d looked at you and realized your bumbling actions were a result of fear. Fear of him after he’d so carefully and gently saved you.

You felt stupid and petty as you joined a throng of people being guided away from the scene. After nearly two years of working to protect the city, Loki should have gotten more praise and love than he did. You realized it now, only moments too late. Someone should tell him he was appreciated, a hero. And if no one else was going to do it, you resolved to do it yourself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The meeting was dreadfully boring, but someone had to go. Seeing as all the other Avengers were busy, that someone was Loki. Besides, Stark had told him it would be good for his image to head up the restoration of the city this time round. The committee and resources were all a part of Stark Industries, of course, so Loki felt there should be some employee to take care of it instead of him. But whatever, he’d been roped into it now, and he figured that there was some merit to what Tony has said about his reputation.

Luckily, with a week having passed since the battle, great headway had been made with the repairs, and the meeting was much shorter than expected. Itching to get outside, Loki headed to the main doors.

“You don’t understand,” Loki heard someone say to the receptionist as he approached the front desk. “He saved me the other day. I have to thank him. Please?”

Loki just rolled his eyes as he pushed through the turnstile. He couldn’t even begin to count how many fans had tried this tactic to meet their favorite Avengers. Granted, no one had ever tried to see him, but he was coming to terms with it. Still, he couldn’t help but wonder which of his colleagues you were trying to get through to see. Perhaps Steve, or maybe even Thor. Loki was so lost in thought it barely even registered when the voice switched from pleading with the receptionist to calling after him.

He turned and stopped, recognizing the person jogging after him as you, who he remembered from the battle. “May I help you?” he asked in the most pleasant tone he could manage.

“Yeah. Uh, hi. I don’t know if you remember, but you saved me the other day,” you explained sheepishly. “You know, during the attack.”

“Yes, I recall.”

“Oh! Good. I just wanted to say thank you for that. For saving me, I mean. And the city.”

“I see,” the god replied, suspiciously raising an eyebrow. “Well then, you are welcome. Really, I was just doing my job, though.”

“Well, I still appreciate it.” There was a lapse in the conversation, as neither of you were really sure what to say next. “Can we go somewhere? Like for coffee or something. Can I buy you a coffee?”

Oddly enough, that made Loki distrust the situation even more. Ok, maybe you were actually a super nice person who had a guilty conscience for making him feel bad, and maybe that prompted you to come thank him properly. But that you wanted to buy him something, presumably to show your newfound appreciation? Absolutely preposterous. The only people who ever did something remotely as kind as that were his fellow Avengers, and not even all of them or particularly often. Any of the other people who openly supported him didn’t show appreciation, per se. It was more that they felt he’d done enough to redeem himself at this point, which wasn’t exactly the most thrilling phrasing either. But here you were, awkwardly shuffling your feet and asking to buy him coffee. Loki supposed he shouldn’t pass such an opportunity up. And yet, he probably was going to.

“No thank you,” he finally replied, shaking himself from the shocked, catatonic state he’d fallen into. “I do not much like coffee.”

As he walked away, he thought that would be the end of it. That perhaps you’d only been talking to him in the hopes he’d invite you to see the other Avengers, too. That maybe you’d go back to trying to wheedle your way inside at the front desk. Much to his surprise, you came hurrying after him.

“Wait,” you called. “Ok, so scratch the coffee. How about ice cream or tea or a milkshake or something? Anything really, you name it.”

Now that you were outside, he observed you again while he thought, as if hoping the sunlight would reveal your true intentions. He couldn’t find anything malicious in your expression, just some sort of anxiety. Loki must have taken too long in coming to a decision, because you started rambling.

“I’m so sorry. I don’t mean to pressure you into it or anything, but I wanted to do something nice to say thank you and-” you cut off and bit your lip. “Is this stupid? It sounds stupid. It’s probably stupid. I’ll go now. Again, I’m really sorry to have bothered you.”

“One moment,” he said before you could make your retreat. “You said anything I want, correct?” You eagerly nodded as Loki got an idea. “Alright then. I would like a five course meal at the nicest restaurant in London, please and thank you.”

“I, um. I know I said anything but, uh...” You noticed his serious expression had turned into a sly grin. “You’re joking, aren’t you?”

“Yes, I am. My apologies, but I simply could not resist,” he chuckled.

You began to laugh, too. Not in a way that made him think it was out of courtesy or pity, but an honest to goodness laugh. Briefly, he thought it one of the most beautiful sounds he’d ever heard, before quickly shaking the idea from his mind. It was ridiculous; he hardly even knew you. But you seemed pretty adamant on showing your gratitude. Plus, you’d apologized to him, which was more than he could say for most of the people in his life.

“You know, I would usually say tea, but a milkshake actually sounds quite lovely right now,” he told you once you’d calmed down. “That is, if the offer is still open.”

“Of course it is!” you happily told him, the smile on your face growing. Not to mention you seemed much more at ease. “I actually know a great diner that’s just a short walk from here, if that works for you.”

“By all means, lead the way.”

It took approximately ten minutes to get to the restaurant. After properly introducing yourselves, you kept up a light dialogue. It wasn’t uncomfortable, exactly; just hesitant, as if both of you were afraid of saying the wrong things and shattering the blissful moment. Loki still couldn’t bring himself to fully trust you. Such a feeling just wasn’t in his nature, especially not when it came to someone he just met and had a considerably rocky start with. Even so, he found himself enjoying your company.

Arriving at the diner, Loki held the door open for you as you walked in. Luckily, you didn’t have to wait for a seat, the classic red stools at the bar free at this time of the afternoon. Loki swiveled the seat back and forth ever so slightly, and found himself chuckling when he caught you doing the same thing. You offered him a shy smile as a waitress handed the both of you a menu.

The God of Mischief had only ever had the pleasure of drinking a milkshake once before, a vanilla one when the team had convinced him to try it on one of their outings. He’d thoroughly enjoyed it and planned on playing it safe by ordering the same thing now. When you asked what he was getting, though, you were having none of that. After nearly five minutes of rousing debate, you’d finally talked him up to chocolate. Part of him was having so much fun with the discussion and how animated you became about the topic that he almost didn’t want to concede. But the waitress came back to take your orders, and he didn’t want to make her leave and come back again.

“Oh, and some French fries too please,” you added after ordering your favorite milkshake.

Loki shot you a perplexed look. “French fries?” he asked after the waitress moved away.

“Yeah. Please tell me you’ve heard of them before.”

“I have. I have even eaten them a few times before, believe it or not,” he answered as you turned to face him, leaning on the counter. “But are you certain they go with a milkshake?”

Your jaw dropped open. “Of course they do. Listen, Loki, you haven’t lived until you’ve dipped French fries in a milkshake. You’ll love it, I promise.”

You continued to help him expand his knowledge of Midgardian cuisine as you waited for your order to come. Once it arrived, you dipped a fry in your shake, just as you had said, trying to convince him just how delicious it truly was. The trickster skeptically picked one up and mimicked your actions, plunging it into the frothy liquid. The second it hit his tongue, his face lit up in pure delight.

“See, I told you,” you laughed.

“Indeed you did,” he said back, the corners of his eyes crinkling from how wide his smile was.

An hour and another order of fries later, the two of you finished your snack. Loki was in a better mood than he’d been all month. Honestly, he was a little sad when the bill came.

“Are you certain you do not want me to pay?” he checked as you fished out a twenty from your wallet to cover the low-cost meal. “Or we could split it, at least.”

“Loki, it’s fine,” you giggled. “This is me thanking you, remember? And, honestly, it’s me apologizing, too. I was just startled the other day and there was a lot going on. I hadn’t ever really thought about what I’d do if I met an Avenger, least of all if it happened while they were saving my life. I was overwhelmed; I didn’t mean to make you feel bad about yourself or anything.” Without really thinking about it, your hand moved to rest on top of his. It was a surprise to Loki, but a welcome one. “Because—and I can say this with absolute certainty—you’re amazing, Loki. You do so much for the city. I hope you know how appreciated you are, at least by me.”

His other large hand came to cover yours. “Thank you, darling.” He didn’t mean to say the pet name, but it just slipped out. “I cannot express how much that means to me.”

Somewhere in his heart, he wanted to tell you everything, make you privy to all his inner turmoil. But that was buried underneath years of pain and rejection, too heavy to move for someone he didn’t know all too well, no matter how connected he felt to you in this moment. So he let the urge pass over him, hoping his thanks would be sufficient enough in expressing how he felt.

“You’re welcome, Loki,” you told him, squeezing his hand. Then you stood up. “So, I guess I’ll be letting you get on with your day then. This was really nice, though. Thanks for agreeing to it.”

“You’re welcome and thank you,” he replied. “It really was.”

After waving goodbye to each other, you exited and Loki stayed where he was, picking at the last few nubs of fries left in the basket. He didn’t know exactly why he didn’t leave, too. Just that something was missing.

“Ah, young love,” the elderly waitress who had been serving you all day said to Loki as she came to collect the empty dishes. “Magical, isn’t it?”

“Love?” Loki choked out. “I am afraid you are quite mistaken. It was not even a date. I hardly even know them. I will probably never even see them again.”

“And you’re just gonna let them walk out?” she tsked. “It’s a right shame, sonny. Let me tell you, you don’t just let something like that walk out on ya.”

He looked at the door for a second in melancholic contemplation before bolting out after you. He shouted his thanks to the waitress as he pushed open the glass door, exiting out into the harsh sunlight. As his eyes adjusted, they scanned for your form before it walked out of his life forever. Spotting you, he jogged in your direction and called your name. Funny, he thought, how just earlier that day the roles had been reversed.

“Loki?” you asked, stopped on the sidewalk as he caught up to you. “Are you ok? Did something happen?”

“Actually, the problem is what did not happen.” He kicked a rock with his shoe, as suddenly the ground became very interesting to him. His insides were a nervous mess. Clearing his throat, he gathered his courage to continue. “See, I do not have any way of contacting you again. And it had been my sincere hope that you would want to do this again, let me take you out somewhere.”

“That sounds amazing,” you agreed, jotting down your number on an old receipt you’d found in your wallet. Smirking, you parroted back his words from earlier. “How about you take me for a five course meal in London?”

“Oh, so you have turned my own jokes against me. How very clever of you,” he laughed. “What if we just went to see a movie, instead?”

“Perfect,” you nodded. “Just text me a time and place, and I’ll see you then.”

“I look forward to it. As soon as I buy the tickets, I shall let you know.”

“Sounds awesome! It’s a date.”

As you parted ways, for real this time, it registered in Loki’s mind what you’d said. He hadn’t particularly been thinking about his phrasing or in what way he was asking you to hang out. But apparently you’d taken it as an invitation for a date. As Loki arrived back at the Tower and flopped onto his bed, already dreaming of your laugh, he found he was quite happy that you had.

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stellocchia · 3 years

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There were a few interesting posts today that got me back into thinking about c!Dream’s and c!Tommy’s relationship and, more exactly, how it got to the point we are at now.

As always turns out I’m terrible at being brief so everything under the cut...

Now there are a few things we know by now:

Dream promotes both the idea that Tommy is the origin of all conflict on the server and that he is the reason for the existence of attachment on the server, all neatly expressed in this quote from the season 2 finale:

“You’ve brought war, you brought terrorism, you’ve brought bad everything! But! But! The cause of all the wars, of everything, was attachment, alright? (...) That’s the one good thing that you’ve done. The one good thing you’ve done is that you brought attachment to the server”

And, well, the seacond thing is what Dream uses as an excuse for his obsession (I made a more in-depth rant on that here) because he thinks that controlling attachments is the only way to obtain the absolute power that he wants.

Dream has also pushed multiple times the idea that Tommy is entertaining for him, too much to let go in fact. Callback to that one line on Doomsday on the obsidian grid:

“I don’t think that our story will ever be over Tommy” “Oh I think it will be” “I think that you’re just too fun”

And lastly we know that this weird level of focus that Dream has on Tommy is not something new. I’d date it as back as the original disk war with Dream going exclusively after Tommy to a great extent for something that wasn’t his crime alone, but even more interesting was the declaration of war against L’Manburg (a nation started in fact by Wilbur) which opened up with:

“Tommy! (pause) And Wilbur and the rest of L’ManChildburg, we are at war”

Which, if you haven’t noticed, not only addresses Tommy first but continues to relate the country to him more so then Wilbur with the later insult (”child” is literally a Tommy specific insult). There are also a ton of other instances in season 1 that point to this whole focus not being something new (again, you can find more here).

The information that we lack is how and why it became like this.

The qualities that Dream points out in Tommy that make him stand out to him are the fact that he’s fun, doesn’t do what Dream wants him to and gets attched to things, places and people very easily.

And as a matter of fact, all this qualities are unique to Tommy in one way or the other. Every single person out there, aside from Tommy (not considering exile), has at some point bent down to Dream giving him the power that he craves, be it by seeking his approval to consider their country independent or simply working for him and following his order.

Fun is something subjective, but it’s not so hard to infere that Dream gets easily bored of people. He discarded his friends easily enough and when Tubbo lost his use to him he didn’t only describe him as “useless” but as “boring”, which is arguably worse from Dream’s point of view. Tommy? Well, Dream wanted to share immortality with him, I doubt he thinks he’s gonna get bored of him any time soon...

A lot of other people (literally everyone I would say) have attachments in one way or the other, often even pre-dating Tommy’s arrival on the server, but while, before Tommy, people have retaliated when their attachments were stolen or destroyed, no one evr went to quite the same extent as Tommy, though that is because Tommy’s attachments were exploited by someone who was obsessed with him and unwilling to let him get over it or keep them safe. Of course that does means that no one has gone to Tommy’s extent BUT Dream.

And here we get to my theory:

I think that the reason behind Dream’s obsession is that he thinks that Tommy is like him, much like Wilbur ended up doing towards the end of his life. It’s weird to say because Dream has made such a big narrative about Tommy being a troublemaker and being bad and all that that people forget that that’s EXACTLY how Dream is. Dream has FUN with chaos. He destroyed L’Manburg to bedrock because it was more fun then just hurting Tommy. He helped Tommy with the whole “battle of the Lake” thing because he had FUN destroying stuff, he even admitted to that!

Of course there is the fact that Dream supposedly has no attchments, while Tommy has many, but, by Dream’s own admission, it wasn’t always like that, He cut out his attachments voulountarily, but he doesn’t really want Tommy to cut his (limit them to something easily controllable by Dream like the discs yes, but not loose them entirely) because that’s the bullshit explaination he is giving himself for why he can keep Tommy as an attachment without him making him weak.

Basically, what I’m saying is that Dream has projected a LOT on Tommy to the point where he thinks they are so similar that he could get some kind of understanding from him (callback to Dream in prison spouting all that bs about how exile was actually good, or any time he talked about everything as a game between him and Tommy or him in prison trying to convince Tommy to work with him/become immortals together). Dream has a very twisted view of the world but, at his core, he is still somehow human and still wants companionship and the one who was unfortunate enough to be chosen for that was Tommy.

Also for the “when did this obsession start” thing I honestly think it was gradual. There were ALWAYS hints of it from the very start of things, there was always more focus on Tommy from Dream then it was reasonable for there to be, but it got worse and worse over time. The biggest shift seem to have happened when Dream acquired the Revival Book, maybe a case of that “power over life and death going to your head” thing. Regardless I really don’t think there was a catalyst per se, more so Dream’s world view twisting more and more and him gradually becoming dependent on Tommy because of it.

#dreamwastaken #tommyinnit #dream smp #c!dream #relationship analysis #character analysis #long post #my post #I hope this whole ramble made some sense #I kinda was thinking about stuff as i wrote so I'm not sure how cohesive it is #but still the tl:dr is everyone loves projecting their issues on c!tommy and c!dream is no different #who would have thought?

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itsclydebitches · 3 years

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RWBY Recaps: Volume 8 “The Final Word”

Well, we made it to the finale, everyone, and if you're reading this it seems you've survived the watching of it too. Barely. To say that some questionable choices were made across these 20 minutes is... an understatement.

But before we delve into the episode, I want you to cast your mind back to November 7th, 2020. A horrible year that heralded a horrible RWBY volume. There, coming off the shaky writing of Volume 7, I posed a number of questions and concerns that the show needed to tackle, with the promise that we would return to these expectations in four months time. Now, here we are! Let's refresh everyone's memory, yeah?

Taken directly from that recap, what RWBY promised us, through various teasers and Q&As, included:

Emphasis on Ruby’s leadership and how Summer’s death has impacted her

Insight into Ren and Nora’s flaws

May Merigold will supposedly have a larger part

More information about The Long Memory (Ozpin’s cane)

Theme of the volume is that you can respect someone but that doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with them

Very short timeline (supposedly just two days)

Yang in particular is very suspicious and distrustful

And you know what? They did all this. In the spirit of being fair and honest to this show, RWBY succeeded in delivering on everything they promised... it was just our foolishness that expected that these ideas would be delivered well. Ruby's leadership took center stage in the form of her hiding for multiple episodes and then others telling her she's still The Best before the plot dropped a solution into her lap... one she could have used at any point prior to this. Summer's death certainly has an impact, though it's an impact born of a crazy reveal that Summer likely isn't dead, but turned into a horrifying grimm monster. Ren and Nora both delve into their flaws, but heaven forbid either grow from that reflection. Ren learns that if he pushes past his primary flaw of keeping his emotions buried and actually expresses his doubts for once, he'll be yelled at and ignored until he admits how wrong he was. The "real" flaw is being a bad friend, with "bad friend" equaling "Not agreeing with Ruby 100%." Meanwhile, Nora considers that maybe she shouldn't rush in recklessly and hit things with her hammer... which is why she rushes in recklessly, hits something with her hammer, gets grievously injured, and is told that this is just who she truly is. No growth there, not unless we count her sudden desire to figure out who she is without Ren... but that exploration hasn't started yet. Too bad she wasn't the teammate separated at the end of the volume!

Meanwhile, May did indeed have a larger role to play, one I quite liked, it's just that this role — like all the others — inevitably circled back to realizing how wonderful Ruby is. May challenges Ruby to make a decision, but instead of being the catalyst for Ruby's growth, May becomes another forgotten side character who does a sudden about-turn regarding her perspective, leaving the group with the contradictory message that Ruby is actually doing her best, she's just a kid, no need to try any harder... everyone who claimed otherwise up until now was mistaken. May is another Cordovin. She's another Qrow. She's another Maria.

Fun fact: we don't even know if Maria is alive right now. That's how little she means to the show!

Actually, wait... anyone remember this nonsense from Volume 7?

I was too lazy to change the date.

Moving on, Ozpin's cane turned out to be a stakes obliterating bomb that came out of nowhere, makes no sense logistically — how do battles store energy that only hurts grimm? — yet nevertheless seems to have killed Hazel? It's a disaster of unanswered questions. Similar to the disaster of our two day timeline when, I'm fairly sure, we've had an unnatural number of sunrises and sunsets. I'll have to take a look back at the volume as a whole now that it's complete to be sure of that though. As for our themes... did we really explore the idea of respecting someone even if you disagree with them? Because Ironwood wasn't shown any respect. Ren wasn't shown respect. I think the closest we got was Oscar calmly validating Yang's worry about getting buddy-buddy with Emerald, but the whole point there was that Yang was wrong. She wasn't wrong, but that's what the text would have you believe. She is indeed "very suspicious and distrustful," but that's hardly unjustified in these circumstances. I'm still boggling at the fact that it took the group three volumes for forgive Ozpin, even while he was actively working to assist them, yet I-helped-destroy-Beacon-and-tried-to-kill-everyone-you-love Emerald is the group's new BFF after she... ran away with Oscar? She didn't save him, she just went along for the ride. At the very least we might have gotten a scene where Penny was like, "Hey, why are you all laughing with the woman who just tried to kill my dad?"

But oh yeah, the story doesn't remember Pietro exists either. His daughter is DEAD and he hasn't been on screen since Episode Five, let alone there when she passes.

I had my own list going in, including such expectations as "Ozpin bb you got done dirty please acknowledge this" and "Queer baiting, queer baiting… you’re on thin ice at this point, RWBY. Just skate on over to the queer snack bar before you fall straight into the lake." Obviously these needs were not met.

So what, given this mess of expectations, did we end up with?

Our finale — for some reason — breaks the one word title trend with "The Final Word." It's an expression that refers to the final word in an argument or a discussion, the idea of winning by making a last, devastating point. It can also refer to making the final decision on something, which is the best way I'm able to apply the title to this episode (outside of any “final” comparisons). Penny's death is certainly all about choice and making some kind of decision... but on the whole, this title doesn't feel like it fits well. Not like "Worthy" or "Creation" or "Risk." The two latter titles had obvious connections to the episode in question through dialogue and plot, while the former was a deliberate callback to Watts' speech. "The Final Word" feels... less obvious in what it’s trying to say.

That's a minor nitpick though. Let's get into the meat of the episode.

We open on the grimm whale still disappearing, which is weird. I get that it's massively bigger than any other grimm we've seen, but they all turned to dust near instantaneously and it's been, what? At least an hour since Oscar blew it up? Likely longer when we factor in their walk back to the manor, the fight with Ironwood, fixing Penny, and this entire evacuation. It certainly makes for a nice visual, but like so many details in RWBY, it raises unnecessary questions along the way.

The important bit though is that amidst the whale carcass a blob of evil is swirling about. Salem, obviously.

She’s not reforming in time to actually do anything though, don't worry.

Instead, we cut to the Ironwood vs. Winter fight and there's at least some dialogue this time. Ironwood yells that he's sacrificed everything to keep Remnant safe. Winter yells back that he actually sacrificed everyone else. Obviously, Ironwood should be called out for things like, you know, his unprompted murders, but instead they have Winter listing stuff that she was never shown to have a problem with before. The embargo? "Squeezed Mantle until it broke?" She, as Ironwood's second hand, understood and supported both the decision to close the border and the need to collect resources for a plan designed to take out Salem. I hate that no only did she turn without an ounce of hesitation or grief, but now they're having her act as if Ironwood forced these decisions on everyone, rather than everyone supporting him through them. We all remember Volume 7 when Ruby pressured him to finish Amity, right? And in trust RWBY fashion, most of these words are meaningless. Mantle "broke"? What does that mean? The class disparity did not come about through Ironwood: that's been in the works for generations. The lack of resources made things harder, yes, but when they were reclaimed by Robyn nothing improved. Watts is the one who turned off the heat and Salem attacked Atlas, leaving Mantle alone. Now, all the citizens have escaped through magical portals. So how is Mantle "broken" exactly? More importantly, why is Winter upset over this vague, nonsensical dilemma when she could be yelling about Ironwood wanting to bomb Mantle?

Again: this woman watched Ironwood shoot the councilman, shrugged, and continued to believe in him up until she realized his bomb threat was real. That was one of the main reasons why I thought the councilman might be alive, with Ironwood only shooting a warning shot past him. Because this is how you react to a good person unexpectedly killing someone else

whereas this is what we got from Winter and Harriet.

Hell, Weiss has more of a reaction to Yang telling Ruby things aren't super great right now.

So either Ironwood didn't do something that bad, thereby justifying these tame reactions (unlikely, given where his character ended up), or we should believe based on the animation that everyone was super chill with him killing an unarmed civilian. Which is then directly contradicted when they're like, "You're going to shoot Marrow? Bomb a city?? How could you do such horrible things??? 😲" Friends, buddies, fictional pals... you already watched him murder a dude.

The point is, there's a lot for Winter to be upset about, but she's not upset about that. There's a lot that Winter herself believed in, but the writing has forgotten that. This entire arc went off the rails a volume ago.

Also, why is Ironwood fighting with that giant gun? This is his final battle, presumably ever, and he's wielding this awkward, sluggish weapon we saw him randomly pick up two episodes ago? Let him use his regular guns! Give us a fantastic battle like he had with Watts! Instead, RWBY's final showdown consists of him using this no-name weapon as a unwieldy club in some of the most boring choreography we've seen to date. It doesn't help that this fight needs to share time with three others. Instead of an epic showdown, we're given glimpses of the battle before continually cutting away from it.

During that first cut we return to the Team RWBY battle where Penny, doing her best to stay out of Cinder's reach, is whisked away on Weiss' wasp.

Too bad she didn't do that for Yang...

Jaune and Nora watch this horror unfold until Jaune says, "Priority one!" and they split. Except... what is priority one exactly? Helping the civilians? I guess, because they don't enter the fight until the very end of it, when everyone else seems to have made it to Vacuo. And you know what, I like that. For once it feels like the group — or at least the B Team — is acting like huntsmen, putting the needs of the people over their own, personal desires. I'm sure Nora wants to help the group after Yang's (presumed) demise and that Jaune would like nothing more than to get his hands on Cinder, but they put those grievances aside to do the work they signed up for. Good job!

My only real gripe is that we don't really see this struggling in the animation, I'm just assuming it's there. In particular, there's a moment when Jaune sends Nora through the portal for reinforcements — not knowing they can't return — and they seem a little too jovial when, by this point, three friends have died.

There's letting your cast be supportive, and then there's having them ignore that three teammates have perished in an abyss. It really doesn't help to sell the idea that Yang, Ruby, and Blake are in any danger here.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Penny tells Weiss that since Cinder is really just after the Maiden powers, she can buy the rest of the group time to escape. Weiss, obviously, isn't fond of this idea... and then the both of them are blasted off the wasp by Cinder's fire. Which they deserve, frankly. They're just having this casual conversation about sacrifice while in the middle of a battle. Did they somehow forget that Cinder can fly too?

Note that multiple attacks from Cinder, another blast, and a hard landing on the pathway gives their auras a knock, but doesn't break them. The primary defense for Yang's aura shattering in a single, simple hit was that everyone is exhausted and running on little to no power... yet here the rest of the cast is, tanking multiple hits as we've come to expect. There is no explanation for Yang's defeat except that the writers chose to ignore the rules of their world for a dramatic death scene... even though that drama was erased a week later as half our team falls into the void too.

We'll get to that though. For now, Cinder corrects Penny's belief with "I want it all" and proceeds to try to finish them off, only for Blake to arrive, having made her choice from last episode about who to help. It's a legitimately nice attack, but I happened to pause at the bEST MOMENT

Anyway.

We leave that fight to return to Qrow and Harriet who have, off screen, started an entirely different battle. What I mean is, last we saw Qrow had broken through the windshield of the airship, roughly pinned Harriet, and was taunting her about getting the fight she wanted. Now, suddenly, he's going “You’re making a mistake, Harriet, what happened to Clover—” as if he's been trying to talk her down this whole time. It's jarring, especially when we consider that Qrow had a volume long "kill Ironwood" arc that was dropped because... Robyn reminded him that murder is bad? RWBY feels like a storytelling pinball machine. Characters bounce from one personality to the next, one perspective and another, round and round until you don't know where they'll end up.

Harriet screams for Qrow to just shut up already and honestly? Same. I love Qrow, he's one of my favorites, but I can't deny that he's been done dirty like so many others since Volume 6. I love who Qrow was, not the mess RWBY has created the last few years.

Time to delve back into fic after recapping!

Sadly though, this strange dialogue wasn't the only "wtf" moment. Harriet is still trying to drop the bomb — which is its own mess of confusing motivations — when Vine and Elm show up on Harriet's ship. Elm begs Harriet not to do this "because you’re our friend!”

Am I glad that they finally acknowledged that the Ace Ops have always been friends? Sure, but why did we spend two volumes claiming otherwise? They were friends, a fantastic team, then Harriet announces that's a lie and we get a bunch of "Team RWBY is superior because they're actually friends" messages. Except this entire time we're still watching the Ace Ops be kind and playful with one another. But they're not friends, the story says. Not friends as they fight these battles. Not friends as they grieve for Clover. Definitely not friends as they react in horror at Ironwood nearly shooting Marrow. No, there's nothing there... until Elm claims there is! Then Harriet reacts in shock. I have friends?

Except Elm was labeled the one "just following orders" by Yang. Elm is the one who shook off Vine after the whale exploded. This isn't the story of one character, Harriet, thinking she was alone and then realizing that people do care for her, this is a story that, seemingly at random, had this group being BFFs or acting like they hated each other — and at each point the visuals are contradicted by the story's message. When they act like friends, we're told they're not friends. When they don't act like friends, we're told they really have been this whole time. I mean, do any of them even care that Marrow teamed up with Qrow and Robyn to take them out five minutes ago? All three were going along with Ironwood's scheme until they were physically stopped, but now Elm is convinced this is a bad decision she needs to talk Harriet down from with the power of friendship?

None of these characters are characters, they're just slapped together reactions based on whatever the plot needs. Who is Elm? I've got no clue. Her personality changes every episode.

Also, love that Qrow moves to stop the bomb from dropping and Harriet screams at him to "Get out of the way!" rather than just... attacking him? She even throws her hands out like she's having a temper tantrum. This feels like schoolyard bickering, not a life or death struggle.

Even though, you know, the audience is aware that the people of Mantle have already been evacuated and Qrow's group is aware that Atlas is falling on top of Mantle as they speak, so... why does the bomb matter? It's going to, what? Destroy the city thirty seconds before Atlas does? Oh no, the horror.

Things then, if you can believe it, get even worse. The bomb is still about to drop, so instead of doing anything to stop it — I mean seriously, we know it takes four people to shoulder the bomb's weight, but you're telling me Qrow and a reformed Harriet can't snag it in a pinch? — Qrow sits there, looks at Clover's pin... and the bomb careens towards the side of the airship instead, stopping.

Because I guess Qrow has good luck now? Or always did and somehow never noticed it? Or his semblance evolved?? Again, we don't know, but it's a bad moment any way you slice it, imo. Qrow has always been defined as the guy with a bad luck semblance and, much like Penny's android struggles, the allure was in watching him overcome those challenges, not having the show erase the challenge entirely. Especially when we don't even understand how it was erased. Qrow just... stops drinking, stops caring for Ironwood, stops wanting to kill Ironwood, stops causing bad luck, I guess. RWBY takes major character traits and flips them off like a light switch, leaving the audience with no emotional tether. We didn't watch Qrow overcome his drinking, or realize he can't bear to kill Ironwood, or discover a way to live life with the horrible hand he was dealt, he just blinks one day and those things are gone. Why? No one is sure. Not even the writers, I'd wager, because otherwise they would have written explanations into the text.

Many in the fandom insist that any basic information provided by the story amounts to "hand holding" when in fact there is a massive difference between the sort of unnecessary exposition that bogs down a tale, and having facts enough for the audience in its entirety to be on the same page about what is actually happening. For example, recently someone argued strongly that the "Penny is human" take is incorrect because Penny isn't human, she has an inhuman body made entirely of aura... yet where in the world does this exist in the story? Ambrosius may have been unsure about what Penny would be prior to removing her robotic parts, but that ambiguity is gone once her body forms, the equivalent of worrying about that gun only for a flag with 'BANG' to appear instead of a bullet. Worrying about something doesn't mean that something actually occurred. Penny appears human, expresses human sentiments, and then, this episode, dies as a human. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and succumbs to the mortal peril that all ducks face... it's probably a duck. As I said in a recent ask, I implore the fandom to stop writing RWBY's scripts for them. Or rather, do so in some amazing fanfics. Don't do it on critical posts as a means of insisting that your revision is canon.

So Qrow has good luck now, maybe, but this character change doesn't amount to anything because Watts remotely starts the bomb's countdown.

At least he’s entertaining and competent. We had that for a time.

Back to the main battle, Neo is kicking Ruby's ass. Why? Because there's no consistency in power levels in this show. The ancient woman who hasn't fought in decades dances circles around Neo, highlighting how weak she supposedly is, yet now Neo dances circles around our main character. None of us should expect fights to follow the logic of the world, only what drama the plot wants to stir up. Ruby is eventually knocked down from a hard hit — yet her aura's intact! — and is saved at the last second by Weiss tossing Neo into one of the portals.

Far more of a problem than the power leveling is that Ruby gives no indication here that Neo just murdered her sister. Again, that's what the characters are meant to believe, yet Ruby is as stoic as she would be fighting a bunch of White Fang grunts. If you showed this scene to a RWBY fan on its own and asked, "What do you think happened prior to this?" the answer would be, "Uh... nothing? Ruby is just fighting Neo like she did on the airship in Volume 3." Nothing about this scene — from dialogue to animation — sells the idea that Ruby just lost the person most important to her in the world.

When we do finally mention Yang, it's Weiss who goes, “Come on, we have to do this for Yang” and the delivery is... meh. Honestly, I normally don't pay much attention to the voice acting, but I had a problem with most of Weiss' lines this episode. The "Leave her alone!" during this fight and later a "Get back!" as she attacks Cinder both fell really flat for me. Given the devastation and charged emotion that's supposed to be here, we can't give her anything better than generic cries that, again, she’d throw at any grunt? In that later scene the animation absolutely helps sell Weiss' distress, but the dialogue is common and the delivery has no emotional punch, leaving it feeling like Yang is just hanging out in Vacuo and they promised they'd beat the baddies before catching up with her. No one but Blake is acting like Yang died.

In fact, we see more emotion from Ruby when Weiss shoves her back, taking the brunt of Cinder's blast.

Weiss' aura breaks, not that that's a danger or anything. Everyone falls before they're injured, Winter gets the Maiden powers, Ren barely has to fight. Losing aura in this show used to be a moment of peril, where just last volume Winter was bruised, bleeding, and now needs an assistive device because she had to continue a battle with no aura. Now it's a joke. Aura breaks left and right across the volume with no repercussions attached to that.

We see a bit of the Blake and Penny vs. Cinder fight where Cinder blasts Blake off the edge. Penny rushes after her because at least one character remembered that they can fly.

Ruby, meanwhile, remembers that she can fly when it benefits her. After getting hit down onto a lower level and watching Crescent Rose plummet, she taunts Neo into an attack with a move that's actually quite good. I like the confidence with which Ruby riles her up and I like the strategy of darting behind Neo to knock her off the path instead. “Whatever you wanted, I hope it was worth it."

The only thing I don't like is that this speed and ingenuity had to disappear to justify Yang falling.

Cinder breaks Ruby's aura from behind though, sending her over too and grabbing onto Neo's leg. In an obvious moment born of the trope, it looks as if Cinder is reaching to help Neo, only for her to snag the Relic instead. “You should have never threatened me," she tells Neo and to Ruby: "you should have never been born.”

Love that they erased all that cool growth from last episode! And by "love" I mean "hate." As I said last recap, I'm not going to pretend that Cinder's character isn't riddled with problems, but realizing she was stronger by teaming up with Neo and Watts was one of the best things they've ever done for her. It made Cinder dangerous again and showed Watts' speech having a clear impact. It also made her more entertaining, creating a new dynamic among the three villains. Now though, Cinder is just... Cinder. The same boring, stupid Cinder we've had since Volume 4. She betrays Neo and then later betrays Watts.

So Cinder kicks Neo and Ruby both over the edge because why would we want to make her interesting? Neo falls, but Ruby has friends there to catch her! Unlike Yang. Jk. Weiss’ aura is gone and Blake actually tried both times, so major kudos for her. Using momentum supplied by Penny, she snags Ruby and hooks her weapon into one of the pathways... only for Cinder to cut the ribbon. Both plummet and once again Penny has a more believable reaction to all this, just like she did last week

Speaking of reactions, does anyone else find it weird that Cinder finally succeeded in killing Ruby and... doesn’t seem to care?

No? Just me?

At least we get that good animation with Weiss I was talking about before, even if the dialogue is lacking. I love that she snagged Blake's weapon and uses it to try and take out Cinder, shaking the whole time. Those are some great details.

Back to the bomb, Qrow is trying to escape, but Harriet says there isn't enough time to get out of the blast range. "I've killed us all." Vine has the solution though, using his semblance to wrap up the airship, thus containing the blast when it goes off. His final words are to reassure Elm that he can give his life, "if it means saving all of my friends." Just in case you missed the part about the Ace Ops being super close this whole time. Even though they also weren’t. Trying to eat your cake too, RWBY?

Frankly, I didn't feel much of anything during this scene, not when Vine made the sacrifice, nor when Elm and Harriet look on sadly while Robyn pilots them away (that's her contribution this episode).

All I can say is, good on RWBY for not killing one of the three dark skinned characters, or just murdering the Ace Ops as a whole. What the story is going to do with them though, who knows.

Jaune and Nora have that ‘You can do it!’ moment after three of their friends have presumably been killed. I swear, about 80% of Jaune's scenes do not work tonally and oh boy, things only get worse from here.

First though, I like his entrance. He slams into the fight against Cinder and lines up with Penny and Weiss, who is still dual-wielding her and Blake's weapons. That's an epic shot.

It looks as if they stand a decent chance against Cinder — Weiss' lost aura notwithstanding — except then Cinder's arm starts going crazy and she gleefully announces that Salem has returned.

Working on a time limit now, Cinder unleashes a volley of attacks that Penny steps in to protect the other two from. It's here that Cinder grabs hold with her grimm arm.

It's here that Penny dies. Again.

For the third time.

Friends, I am tired. This moment honestly deserves the most epic of rants, but that, in turn, requires energy. Energy? In this economy? Ha! That's hilarious. Taking this seriously though, the problem here can — as usual — be boiled down to a single question: What was the point?

Penny died in a horrible attack that shook the cast and audience both to their core.

That emotional impact was erased through her resurrection.

The resurrection did not create a new emotional impact for our heroes to grapple with.

Penny is given the Maiden powers, solidifying the fact that she's always been a "real girl."

That lesson was erased when the story decided to make her human for unexplained reasons (because no, she never needed to be human to survive the virus).

Penny then dies, passing the power to Winter... who was set to get the power in the first place.

We have, once again, come full circle. You can take Penny out of the story and nothing changes. Does Ruby lose any lessons or emotional growth? No. Does anyone survive who would have otherwise died? No. Does her getting the powers lead to someone unexpected snagging them upon her death? No. Penny's existence was filler. She was put in the story to take up time and, that done, was removed from the story once again. It's a choice that wouldn't be half as horrible if that filler hadn't done so much damage along the way.

First is the obvious: that Penny didn't deserve this. As a character, she didn't deserve to be brought back just to be killed off again, seemingly without narrative purpose, serving only to draw in viewers who RT knew loved the character. Second, keeping her in the story led to her entire arc unraveling. Initially, Penny died as an android in the world's eyes, but those who actually knew her — Ruby and Pietro — mourned the girl she really was. Now we have this horrible message that being a machine isn't real enough, so she has to die as a human being. It's a disservice to her character and, as an allegory for many minorities, downright insulting to the audience. Third, this offensive 'better to die as a human than live as a robot' message is wrapped up in the claim that Penny finally gets to choose something — “Let me choose this one thing. Trust me” — but she already did that when she chose to take the Maiden powers. We already had the better written version of this last volume!

And the fourth issue...well.

Fourth and fifth are the real kickers. Fourth is that Penny's death was an assisted suicide. She explicitly asks Jaune to kill her so she can ensure she's thinking of the right person when she passes (never mind that her thoughts would probably be on Jaune while this is happening) and that's... pretty horrible. Look, I'm no purist. I like a great deal of dark, gritty stories whose plot exists to make us uncomfortable. That's a valuable emotion that fiction can generate. The problem is not that RWBY is tackling a sensitive topic, but that they aren’t tackling it well. Yes, they put in a content warning and (from what I've heard) a suicide helpline as well, but providing the already necessary resources is not the same thing as writing that kind of scene with respect and care. All of the above tells us that, no matter what RT may have intended, that respect and care weren't communicated to the audience. Like Yang, they didn't even bother to keep Penny's death within the rules of their world. Jaune is right there ready to heal her and Penny says no, there's supposedly not time.

Um... since when?

Jaune's aura boost is instantaneous. The second he amplifies aura is the same second the healing starts and their talk could have been spent saving Penny. There was certainly time to save Weiss in Volume 5. To have a character go, 'Nah, it's too late' when the solution is right there is the ultimate cop-out. Suddenly announcing that the solution will no longer work For Reasons is not a legitimate limitation and it's made doubly insulting that RT didn't simply use the limitations already available to them. Jaune has been running low on aura since the whale. He then expended a great deal of aura boosting Penny to keep the virus in check. Every other ally has had their aura broken in this fight so, there. That's your solution. Have Jaune take a few hard hits from Cinder, his aura breaks, and then when Penny is mortally wounded he no longer has a semblance to heal her. It's that easy! Yet instead they had Penny reject help so that she could ask to die. That's what's offensive here.

Finally, reason number five... why is this moment given to Jaune? That's another easy solution: Jaune has gone through the portal and can't get back to heal Penny. There. Done. But logistics aside, this scene should have gone to any other character. Who is Jaune to Penny? Or Penny to Jaune? No one! They don't have a relationship. I get that the writers didn't want any of the girls at her side because then it would be hard to justify Penny not passing the power to them (which I get: making one team member a Maiden changes the show drastically), but you know who should be there instead of Jaune?

Pietro.

Pietro, who built Penny as a weapon and who was never given the chance to apologize for that. Pietro, who told Ruby he could only rebuild her once more, setting up an expectation that he'd sacrifice himself for his daughter (despite the complicated racial issues that would bring up). Pietro, who watched Penny plummet and has no idea what happened to her, let alone that she's been made into a human girl. Pietro should have been at her side, saying goodbye to his child and helping her complete her last wish.

And it would be so very easy to pull off. All it takes is a single line where Penny remembers that her father exists, asking Ruby to ensure a portal opens up in Amity. There's a quick reunion along the pathways before Cinder attacks. We hear a cry of despair as Penny falls and she looks, seeing her father racing towards her, though she thought he'd already made it out. There, you’re done. We open ourselves up to a lot of attacks whenever we say, "Why didn't RWBY just do ____?" because those who vehemently defend the writing like to go, "Oh, you think you could write RWBY better?" and no, I don't. I struggle with long-form storytelling and massive casts. I don't think I could do justice to the sort of show RWBY wants to be, but I do think I'm a decent enough writer to spot when there are major problems like this. The question of "Why doesn't Penny remember that her beloved dad exists?" and "Why, out of that massive cast, is Jaune the one to do this deed?" are both things that a newbie writer can spot, and a sometimes okay writer can figure out how to fix them both simultaneously. A good writer will start thinking about themes — what might it mean for Pietro to kill the creation he made? — and a great writer will find a way to pull that off without having that insulting, discomforting feeling pop up. At this point, our RWBY crew feels less like new writers making mistakes (because they're not new, not at all), but rather just writers who haven't bothered to learn from their mistakes after eight years. That's a lot harder to watch.

Because putting Jaune here doesn't just mess with RWBY's internal rules (not using his semblance) and it's not just useless in terms of Penny's development (she doesn't know him outside of "dude who boosted my aura for an hour"), but it also falls back into a pattern I thought RWBY had finally broken from: making Jaune the story's emotional center. This is not the JAUNE show. It's the RWBY show. Yet here, once again, we have Jaune in the spotlight. Why, after a whole volume of Ruby avoiding making decisions, does Jaune finally make the hard call? Why, after a scene where Penny asked Ruby to kill her, does Jaune do that deed? Why, after a divisive arc where all the grief for Pyrrha went to Jaune, is Jaune now set to shoulder the grief of Penny? At least Jaune had a relationship with Pyrrha, even if Nora and Ren did too. Yet with Penny he seems to be there solely because the writers can't bear to keep him out of that center spot for long. All of Team JNOR make it through to Vacuo... except Jaune. Jaune falls into the abyss too because, if the show goes this route, we apparently can’t have a volume just about Team RWBY, the main characters. The main characters are separated from the rest of the team and it's Jaune, not Oscar and Ozpin with a connection to the lore, not Nora or Ren whose development now hinges on them learning who they are without the other, it's Jaune who follows the title characters into a new dimension.

The issue is not whether Jaune deserves to grieve over the truly traumatic thing he just did now that he’s done it. He obviously does. The issue is the writers setting up a scenario where Jaune is situated to do that emotional work in the first place.

I like Jaune as a character. I don't like how the writing uses him as a character. RWBY is built on the idea that these four girls are the heroes of this tale, not the expected blond, blue-eyed, sword wielding guy we’ve seen in so many other stories. So why does that guy get the most important scene of the finale? Yes, Jaune had much less screen time this volume than he did in the past, that’s a good thing given the number of important characters RWBY has to balance, but that hasn't erased the problem of him being given significant moments that should be going to title characters. Does Ruby’s team rescue Oscar and take on Salem? No, Jaune's team does. Does Ruby's team save Penny? No, Jaune's semblance keeps her grounded and then holds the virus off. Not everything is a problem — we've also got good choices like having Ruby defeat the Hound and Ruby's team take on Cinder for the majority of the fight — but that doesn't erase that Penny’s death wasn’t something Jaune should have been a part of. Not unless he was going to heal her. Doing better than they have in the past doesn't mean that RT isn't still slipping when it comes to giving him undeserved focus.

They took one of the most controversial characters, controversial because of how much emotional focus he's gotten in the past, and had him help a fan favorite commit suicide while he cried about it, showing more emotion for a near stranger than our title character showed for her sister. This is a character who, up until two or three episodes ago, had no connection to the victim and still has no reason to thematically be the one committing this act. That is why the fandom goes, “The crew loves Jaune and does everything they can to put him in the center of the action.” Ruby, as main character and Penny’s first friend, is the obvious choice here. Pietro, as Penny's father, would be a good choice too. Hell, Nora is a better option given their moment in the Schnee manor this volume. Or Winter given their moments in Volume 7! Have her escape Ironwood, find Penny, receive the powers, and then finish him off. Literally anyone would be better than Jaune, not because Jaune is a bad character, but because Jaune has no emotional stakes here and putting him in a position where he could heal Penny but doesn’t is massively stupid. No one should be surprised that a lot of the fandom is upset about this. It was one hell of a reach to give him this moment and, since Jaune's problem has always been getting too much screen time and emotional nuance compared to our main cast, it's no wonder this act brought up a lot of bad memories. RT fell back into an old pattern after two volumes of improvement and they did so at the worst possible time.

The tl;dr is that Penny's third death is a writing travesty, just like her second. I shouldn't be surprised, given that this is the same volume that tortured a kid and the only thing they did with it was have him blindly trust his torturer... yet I find myself surprised nonetheless. Because Penny had such potential as an android Maiden and, as much as I personally hated it, potential as a former android learning to be human too. But why explore any of that when you can kill her off instead? Again.

As a final, far smaller note about this scene, we have the continuing problem of what purpose Cinder's arm is serving. If everyone recalls, its threat comes primarily from the fact that she can "siphon off" power from other Maidens.

She did it to Penny during the Amity battle and now she does it again, a great deal of green energy absorbed into Cinder. So what's left to give to Winter? Why doesn't Cinder become noticeably stronger with each successful theft? Like so much else in RWBY, we're told it exists without actually seeing the impact of that. Winter isn't a weaker Maiden for having lost power and Cinder isn't a stronger Maiden for having snagged it. It's just.. there, hanging out and looking vaguely menacing, I guess.

Outside of this unnatural not-transfer, we get to see how the power normally passes as Penny meets with Winter in some in-between place. It's a soft, heartfelt scene... with the exception that Winter says, “You were always the real Maiden at heart. I was just the machine. Just following orders."

I don't know how any viewer can doubt that RT now believes machinery = evil. Penny's machine body is magicked away so she can be a real-real girl. Yang announces that the arm she worked hard to make a part of herself is just "extra." The man with half a metal body is made this volume's villain and losing his second arm is, by the authors' own admission, a symbol of his lost humanity. Mercury with two metal legs remains a bad guy while Emerald and Hazel are hastily redeemed. Tyrian with his cybernetic tail is the most devoted crazy of the bunch. Maria, blind and in need of assistive lenses, is so forgotten by the story she was left in the tundra nine episode ago and won't be mentioned again until next volume (if then). Pietro, the guy in the wheelchair, is forgotten too, despite it being his daughter who dies on screen.

Now Winter, also bearing an assistive device, says that she's the real "machine" here and tells Penny, now human, that she was always the "real Maiden." I don't know what happened to make RT do a 180 lately, but the disability rep is no longer what it was.

Penny reassures Winter that she'll always be a part of her and then passes on, for good this time.

The rest of the episode feels lackluster, if I'm being honest. Images of Cinder beating Weiss are intercut with Ironwood beating Winter, getting her to a point where her aura breaks.

But then the powers appear and, as we'd expect, she easily turns the tide.

Gorgeous animation there.

But RT once again rewrites earlier scenes by having Ironwood claim that the "destiny" he chose for Winter has finally arrived — isn't that Cinder's MO? — and Winter shoots back that he chose nothing, this was a "gift." Except, it was never about destiny or orders? This was why Weiss' anger in Volume 7 was ridiculous. She acted like Ironwood forced Winter to accept the powers and Winter told her point blank she chose this. Ironwood didn't decide anything, he offered and Winter chose... kind of like how Penny is choosing now. I hate how nearly all of Ironwood's character has been ignored or, during times like this, outright lied about to make him seem super duper evil. He tried to bomb a city! You don't need to make him seem evil anymore, that job is done! Like their sudden change regarding disability, RT now seems to be allergic to nuance. Heaven forbid Ironwood be allowed to have valid points like he did in Volume 3. No, if you've got an antagonist every single thing they've ever said must be twisted into a display of their evilness.

Unless you're Hazel, who Oscar trusts for #reasons. Unless you're Emerald, who the group immediately embraces. Unless you're Cinder, who gets to cry on a rooftop and secures the trust of her allies long enough to betray them again.

But Ironwood? Nah, screw that guy.

Salt aside, the fight is pretty boring. Winter literally just throws up a wall of ice and Ironwood's blast rebounds, taking him out.

Winter flies through the portal and we return to Jaune. His sword is broken by Cinder, so weapons should be quite the problem in Volume 9.

There's a bit of sword vs. sword Maiden battling — this episode really pulled heavily from both Volume 3 and 5's finales — before Cinder gets smart again and attacks Weiss, currently trying to escape with Jaune. Weiss goes right off the edge and Winter isn't able to reach her in time. That's the entirety of Team RWBY, lost to the magical void.

Kudos to Winter's VA and the writing here though. This feels like an appropriate reaction to losing a sister. Screaming, sobbing, falling to her knees and beating the floor... Ruby, take notes.

A roar sounds through all the portals though, the sort of roar a pissed off witch might give. Jaune convinces Winter they need to leave Cinder behind, but before they can escape Cinder... makes a new wish?

Look, it works on all the major fronts. Cinder has the staff, check. We've basically established that Ambrosius can make an unlimited number of things per era, check. We know the previous thing disappears when a new wish is made, check. My only question is the timing. In all honesty, I'll have to re-watch the scene to be sure, but at the time it felt like the portals began disappearing almost the second Cinder left. Did she really have time to summon Ambrosius, deal with his explanatory nonsense, and get him to make a new wish without any fiddly concerns? Sure, fire is just fire, but it still felt like way too much happening too fast off screen.

Either way, the portals are gone and Winter makes it through in time, but Jaune does not. He falls through the void along with Team RWBY. And Neo.

Neo is the only addition I'm looking forward to here.

We get a few shots of our other characters as Winter arrives, saving the day by taking her grief out on the grimm. So glad something came of Ren breaking his aura again! Maybe they'll be more fighting at the beginning of Volume 9? If we see any of this group outside of 9's finale. My worst fear right now is that we'll spend an entire season away from the main action — remember how I said it would be stupid for Team RWBY to go on a side adventure while Salem is attacking the world? — and when they return there will have been some major time skip. Salem has destroyed most of Remnant, only pockets of survivors remain, it's all dark and dystopian... and oh look, every bit of character development happened off screen. How did Nora discover who she is without Ren? She did it while Team RWBY was gone. That merge we've been teasing for five years? That happened while you were gone too and, btw, Ozpin has ceased to exist. So sad, right? Not that anyone will actually mourn. Just take comfort in the fact that his last line was an "Oh no" about Ambrosius and his last major scene was apologizing for how the group treated him. Emerald's redemption? Off screen. Winter's grief? Off screen. Any and every one of these challenging beats to tackle can be waved away with, "We went through that arc while you were lost in the magical realm. Just get to know our new, improved selves now!"

Please, oh writing gods, don't let that happen.

Though I do worry because my last prediction came true.

But we all knew we’d end up here. My current theory? The portal should still be open at the vault. Winter will fight Ironwood, escape through it, and it will close right before he escapes too. He’ll fall with Atlas and everyone will act as if it’s some beautiful, poetic justice for him to perish with the city.

Ironwood didn't make a break for the portal — too busy being unconscious — but we got everything else. Winter left him, he falls with Atlas, and this is some poetic justice, I guess. Really, it's just an undignified death. I'd hoped for a sympathetic kill, something that showed the characters still cared about him even if they knew Ironwood had to be stopped. Baring that, I'd hoped for an epic battle that took him out with style. Instead, no one even bothers to kill him. Ironwood is now beneath the entire cast, not even worth finishing off. Winter casually tosses his blast back at him and leaves. Cinder throws out a "that's checkmate" and leaves. I don't think Salem even looks at him. Ironwood (presumably) dies with no one and nothing, just a casualty of the city Team RWBY made fall. And I say "presumably" because the audience isn't even given the satisfaction of being sure he's passed on. Like Hazel, Ironwood's death is this weird, ambiguous moment that, based on the other character reactions, isn’t meant to be ambiguous. Is he dead? Most likely. Is it possible, based on what we've seen, that he'll pop up two volumes later like

Yes and, memes aside, that sucks. I don't want to be wondering for the next couple years if Ironwood survived and if they'll bring him back just to drag his character through the mud again. Move on.

But no, we don't even get that.

I've spoken at great deal about Ironwood both in these recaps and on my blog more generally. Last week, I said I'd covered it all and there was no need to rehash it all again. I stand by that, so let me just conclude this travesty with a final note: if your bad guy's final moment is using the last of his strength to point a gun at the actual villain of this story, and you don't realize the problem of how this image contrasts everything else the story has insisted about his character? … I just don't know what to do with that.

Oh, actually, final-final note: Ironwood’s semblance is officially a Schrodinger's semblance. It is both canonical and noncanonical simultaneously. Wooo.

Cinder tells Salem she used her wish to "add more flames to the first of Atlas" and we cut to Watts, trapped in a roaring fire, unsuccessfully trying to break his way out. Wow, I hate that too! Next to Tyrian, Watts was our last remaining, entertaining villain. He carried a lot of the last two volumes and, I had hoped, was going to add some bright spots to the coming volumes as well. Apparently not.

Just another waste.

In addition to this casual, second murder of her ally, Cinder successfully convinces Salem that Neo killed Ruby and Ruby used the Lamp's last question, but she's back in her good graces since she snagged the Relics anyway. “You’ve done well, Cinder. Our work here is done" and they leave, blasting off like a less cool Team Rocket as Atlas plummets into Mantle.

Let's spend a second to tally things up then, shall we? What happens if Ruby, instead of throwing a moral fit, says, "You're right and we never should have lied to you, or betrayed you. But we want to help now. You get the Relics and the Maiden to safety in Atlas, if you can, we'll defend the people of Mantle"?

Well, they can still tell the world about Salem and call for help, much more easily now since Ironwood would likely just give them the code rather than them needing to spend an episode stealing it.

The Staff at least may not have ended up in Salem's hands and the group could have actually focused on getting the Lamp back (also solved if they'd been smart and just put it in the vault to begin with).

Mantle would still have been safe because Salem was never interested in Mantle to begin with.

Atlas wouldn't have fallen.

Ironwood wouldn't have died.

Penny wouldn't have died.

Even Vine wouldn't have died!

Our heroes unambiguously made the situation worse. Rather than banding together with their allies to fight the real enemy, Salem, they pushed until they made enemies of Ironwood and the Ace Ops both. Then they asked for help — which a pinch of logic said would never arrive — and twiddled their thumbs waiting for it. When it was clear none would come they...did nothing. They sat around, upset that the people were in danger, but not willing to do anything about it. It's only when one of their own, Penny, is threatened that they kick into high gear, hitting on a solution that they could have posed to Ironwood from the very start if no one liked the fly away plan. Yet instead of taking a few minutes to brainstorm other ideas — doing anything other than denouncing Ironwood to the rest of the group and attacking the Ace Ops — they spent two days sitting around, fixing minor messes they’d helped to create, then rushed through the portal plan, messing up the wish and stranding an entire kingdom in a sandstorm, with only Winter now to protect them from grimm.

Fantastically done, team.

The villains won, yes, but not because the villains were smart and compelling. Watts' hack on Penny and the heat petered out to nothing and Salem... well, she sat around for the whole volume, expending energy only to torture Oscar and try to (unsuccessfully) stop some escapees. Neo and, miraculously, Cinder did the most damage, but only in the final hour, with this "damage" being that our characters fall into a void that we now know looks remarkably like a paradise! Everything bad that happened was a result of our heroes being stupid and stubborn. That's a compelling story to tell... but RT isn't trying to tell it. Our heroes caused so much damage, yet that damage goes unacknowledged — or worse, ignored into silence like with Ren — and everything else is waved away with the magic wand the series claims isn't there. The cold doesn't kill anyone. Oscar has no problems walking off the torture. Nora hops back out of bed. Ruby one-shots the Hound. The civilians lost to the void must have survived too. The entire kingdom successfully makes it to Vacuo... unless you count the massive army we never saw making use of the portals, but who cares about them, right?

The villains won, there was indeed something resembling consequences, but none of it was emotionally satisfying. Not even when the series tries so hard to insist that emotion is there.

Qrow watches Atlas fall, mouthing Ruby and Yang's names, but it's too little, too late. Where was this care for his nieces when he was obsessed with killing Ironwood? When did they care about him? Was it when Ruby shrugged at his arrest, when neither cared that he was missing, or when they were designing an escape plan that didn't include putting a portal where Qrow could reach? RWBY markets itself around the found family-ness of its cast, but they're done a poor job in recent volumes (not others) of convincing me that most of these characters care for one another. We went from Ruby denouncing all adults, to Ruby pulling an Ozpin with Ironwood, to Ruby watching blandly as her sister falls to her presumed death. This is my hero? This is the simple soul we're supposed to rally behind? Ruby doesn't feel like a character who cares about other people anymore and, given that she leads the charge, neither do most of her friends. Or, when that emotion appears, it's jarring and undeserved. Jaune cries over Penny's death? That's tonally and characteristically backwards.

This volume was the culmination of so many mistakes over the past two years. No, Covid couldn't have made things any easier for the crew — the fact that they got a volume out at all is amazing — but the pandemic isn't to blame for the problems in the story. These seeds have existed since Volume 5, with some (like Jaune) going back even farther. I don't think we're ever going to get that flawed, but emotionally fulfilling RWBY back. The show has dug too deep and unless it somehow manages to create a clean slate — those time travel ideas get more and more alluring! — there's nothing they can do but keep on digging. At this point, I can only hope that the series does wrap up within the next two volumes, rather than dragging RWBY to a Supernatural-esque length.

Our final shot of the episode proper feels fitting for what this volume has been. Atlas and Mantle flood rather than exploding, something that makes a certain amount of sense, sure, but definitely wasn't what I was expecting. And after all these shocking images — Penny dying, the grimm attacking, our main characters disappearing in a puff of gold dust — we end it all with bits of random debris. It's strange and underwhelming. Out of everything you could have done with the options you had, you choose to do this?

Of course, RWBY always has an after-credits scene (RIP Raven's, still amounting to nothing). Here, the sounds of water return to show us a beach. Crescent Rose imbedded in the sand, mirroring its classic pose in the snow.

There's a tree. It's a very different kind of tree from what we saw in Volume 6, but the height and shape is nevertheless reminiscent of Light's domain.

A tree of life, anyone? After all, the group has fallen into a dimension created by a Relic, the gift of Light himself. It certainly seems as if RWBY is heading towards another encounter with the Gods, though what that will look like and how narratively satisfying it will be remains to be seen.

As for our bingo board, RWBY certainly pulled its weight! Only three squares got gold stars: Watts and Jacques didn't manage another team up because both are dead, Oscar didn't apologize for getting shot because he was too busy being tortured, and Qrow didn't drink likely because he didn't have access to any alcohol across the whole volume. Can't say that's a stellar result. The final image is something to behold though lol.

What a mess.

And on that less than exciting note... we’re done. This has been the volume of desertion, with a large number of fans telling me that they will no longer watch RWBY, but baring something entirely unexpected in my future, I'll be back next volume, for whatever that's worth. It never ceases to amaze me that even one person would give these nonsense recaps the time of day, so in all seriousness: thank you for reading. You rock.

Now go forth and fill the hiatus with great RWBY content!

✌️

#suicide tw #rwby #rwby spoilers #rwby volume 8 #mymetas #rwby recaps #rwby the final word

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lorenfangor · 3 years

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For your fic meme! Jake/Cassie, Fairytale AU and Arranged Marriage. Also if you feel like it, Rachel/Tobias and Proposal Fic mashed with Poorly Timed Confession.

(I’ll eventually write that R/T, but Jake/Cassie is calling my name)

Jacob Berenson is a 24-year-old veteran of a faerie war; his older brother got kidnapped by the Night Court and he wound up joining up on the side of the Summer Court to save his family

He destroyed a majority of the realm of the Night Emperor by setting off a magic bomb crystal spell thing, ending the conflict but killing his brother and his parents and many civilians of the court in the process

the Emperor survived and cursed him; he’s living full-time as a tiger in a household with only a few brownies and house spirits trapped as enchanted servants, a single Summer Court noble named Menderash who’s trapped as a relief sculpture over a fireplace, and his equally-cursed best friend Marco, who’s stuck full-time as a lobster (sometimes he has a little tuxedo. he does actually genuinely enjoy being a lobster, he doesn’t think it sucks too much. most of that is making do with a sucky situation, though.)

Marco’s parents were also killed in the war; Jake is all he’s got left.

they’re all living in a ruined castle that used to be one of the binding points between the Faerie Realms and the mortal world; it was destroyed in the war and has formed a sort of pocket universe

Cassandra “Cassie” Harper and her friend Rachel have grown up in a village near the ruined castle hearing stories about it. Cassie’s betrothed to Rachel’s cousin Jake, who she was friends with as a kid, but doesn’t know what happened to him after he disappeared just after when he turned thirteen

Cassie vanishes into the ruined palace grounds one day when she’s chasing after an injured deer, and promptly gets caught by the curse, which entraps anyone who sets foot in the palace proper and prevents them from leaving. It can only be broken by reciprocated true love, by Jake falling in love with someone who loves him back.

Rachel, convinced she’s not crazy and her friend hasn’t run off to find her probably-dead fiancé like the townspeople thinkC starts watching the entrance where Cassie was last seen and gets noticed one day by a hawk, which she rescues from a really creepy looking very magical-seeming black crow thing

The hawk is a fae prince named Tobias, whose father and mother were killed by the still-missing Emperor - the war isn’t over, just in a period of long and restless waiting

Tobias tells Rachel everything, she realizes that the Jacob he keeps talking about is her cousin who vanished, and sets out to find a way to save both him and Cassie

He tells her that his uncle Aximili is trying unsuccessfully to rule their people in Elfangor’s stead, but is opposed by indolent and self-serving lords and ladies who don’t want anything to do with war and keep ignoring him.

He also tells her something crucial: they’re running out of time. The curse has a catch that Jake doesn’t know about - if he hits 25 years of age without breaking it, he becomes a real tiger and loses all of his humanity and self-awareness and will be magically driven to kill and maul anything he sees.

Rachel goes off to the Summer Court to try and find a way to break the curse; she and Tobias fall in love over the course of their B-plot while Cassie and Jake start falling for one another

Jake believes he’s a monster who can’t be saved or redeemed because of the war crimes he’s committed, and it’s this that makes him bitter and angry and hard to love or talk to. Cassie’s kindness and insistence that he’s capable of goodness starts to break through his pain, though, and she battles the feelings she has for this man that can’t be acknowledged due to her betrothal - she’s been insistent for years that her childhood friend can’t be dead, and honoring their vows

Marco and Menderash help her realize who he is - they can’t talk directly about the curse, but she’s smart, and they’ve become good friends and good at getting around the magical limitations, so they help her

When she does realize this tiger is the same boy she was in love with, she vows to find a way to save him, and she stops fighting their growing attraction. Jake starts wrestling with the idea that he can make some sort of restitution and find his way back to being a good person again, and Marco and Menderash encourage him to stop fighting his feelings - after all, they’re stuck here too, thanks to him

Menderash realizes about the catch of the curse just in time, and Cassie realizes what has to be done. She confesses her love to Jake, and despite being frightened of the future and loathing himself he admits he loves her too, and the curse breaks with only seconds to spare

Rachel, in bear form, transformed thanks to some magic of her own, batters down a gate with Ax and Tobias behind her, only to find Cassie and Jake happily kissing while Marco and Menderash and the freed house spirits look on

they all live happily ever after BUT! sequel hook! the Night Emperor isn’t dead, after all, and in our final pages we discover that his lieutenant had been living among the humans for years, disguised as Marco’s supposedly-dead mother. they’re waiting, watching, and biding their time.

#animorphs #animorphs fanfiction #animorphs aus

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mst3kproject · 3 years

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Battle of the Worlds

Several times on this blog I've featured movies that have more than one title. In almost every case, the new titles were better than the original one, and this is not an exception. Battle of the Worlds is fairly bland, but it tells you that you're going to be seeing a movie about some kind of space-based conflict, without giving away the details. The Italian title was Il Pianeta degli Uomini Spenti, which is a fucking spoiler.

An earlier draft of this review contained a couple of jokes about the classically phallic 60's spacecraft in the movie, but I went back and took those out. Bezos has really set a whole new standard for Giant Dong Rockets and I can no longer accept anything less.

A group of astronomers have just discovered a rogue planet, which they have dubbed the Outsider, is entering our solar system. Everybody is worried about it hitting Earth except for nasty old misanthrope Professor Benson, who says it'll be a near miss. As it turns out, nobody's exactly right – the Outsider doesn't hit us, but it doesn't just pass by, either. Instead, it settles into orbit, and when humanity attempts to explore it, it responds by sending out squadrons of flying saucers to blow our rockets out of its sky! After one of these crashes on Earth, Benson is able to learn how to deactivate the Outsider’s defences and land on it, where humanity can finally confront its inhabitants... or can we?

Well, if you speak Italian, you already know the answer, because this is The Planet of Extinguished Men. The aliens are all long dead and their spaceship has been following its programming for millions of years without them, including the part telling it to destroy the Earth. Bummer.

I actually have quite a bit to say about this movie. It centres around some interesting musings about human emotion and curiosity, though it never comes to any solid conclusions. As a movie, unfortunately, it's not very well-made. This is a story in which the world as we know it nearly comes to an end more than once, and yet very little seems to happen in it.

The opening sequence is terribly clumsy and does very little to place you within this world. We start off with two characters kissing and being excited about starting a new life together, but we have no idea at this point who they are or why they want to leave this place. When the Outsider is discovered, the scientists beat around the bush and try to keep it a secret, even from the audience. Only Benson is willing to be upfront about it. This does establish him as a realist while making his colleagues seem spineless, which is what the movie wants, but it's also terribly frustrating for the viewer.

Later there's a sequence in which a craft attempting to land on Mars is nearly destroyed by the gravity of the Outsider, and some quick thinking saves the astronauts' lives, but this is directed like the battle sequences in Invasion of the Neptune Men. We have no idea where any of these craft or planets are in relation to one another, and have to rely on characters sitting at desks to tell us what's happening. Even worse, we never see the chaos the looming end of the world wreaks on society. Astronauts who have recently returned to Earth note that they've heard there have been suicides and riots as people fear the Outsider will impact our planet, but we never see any of this.

The movie does a little better later, when the Outsider's close approach causes disastrous tidal forces... these are represented by black and white footage of floods and volcanic eruptions tinted red to try to make it match the rest of the colour film. As always, this fails, but at least they tried. Other special effects are equally pathetic. There are the inevitable plastic model kit rockets with their flame exhaust that rises in what's supposed to be a zero-gravity vacuum. The 'flying saucers' the Outsider launches to defend itself look like nothing so much as giant fried eggs.

The Outsider itself is particularly sad to look at. They have a model they use for it in a few shots, but this is about on a par with the original MST3K spaghetti ball. In other shots, the Outsider is represented by a photograph of the Moon. Absolutely no attempt is made to disguise it, and so of course the effect is a dismal failure because everybody knows what the goddamn Moon looks like. They couldn't even, I don't know, turn it upside-down or something?

On the other hand, the inside of the Outsider is actually pretty cool. The sets aren't exactly believable, but you can see what they were going for. Upon entering the caverns, the explorers find themselves in a series of tunnels full of strange red tubes and textures that look more organic than geological. Entering the Outsider is like wandering around within a living organism. My favourite part of this is that absolutely nothing we see here is comprehensible. Professor Benson, the genius, claims to be able to figure out what's going on, but his declarations seem arbitrary and nothing we're looking at makes visual sense. Even the aliens don't look like anything in particular. Were it not for Benson, we would not recognize them as living (or dead) creatures.

Like First Spaceship on Venus, Battle of the Worlds is much more interested in its ideas than in anything else, including what is supposedly its plot. The characters are important mostly as the embodiment of those ideas, rather than as people in themselves, and the ideas the movie wants to study are about logic and emotion and how they affect human priorities.

The character of Dr. Fred Steele finds himself facing the potential end of the world, and decides that the most important thing to him in this situation is the love between him and his fiancee, Eve Barnett. Professor Benson, on the other hand, thinks the most important thing is to understand the threat they're facing. Partly this is so that humanity can save itself from destruction, but knowledge for its own sake is also important. In between these two men is Eve herself, who thinks love and science are both important and tries to find some middle ground between the two. This is difficult for her, because Benson wants her to stay at the observatory and assist him, while Fred wants her to leave with him so they can get married. When Eve tries to convince Fred to stay with her, both men see this as her having chosen Benson, and it poisons the relationships between all three parties. Only with Benson dead are Eve and Fred able to strike a balance again.

But the movie doesn't want us to think that there is no middle ground. The movie's other romantic couple are the two scientists from the Mars Base, Bob and Cathy. They got married because they were both lonely and a psychological evaluation suggested that they had compatible personalities. As the story progresses, however, they find that they have indeed fallen in love and want a future together that would include things like children – but this is ultimately denied to them, as Cathy is crushed by falling debris while exploring the Outsider.

Benson dies when insists on staying aboard the Outsider to try to decode its computers despite the fact that the military is about to destroy the entire object. As the others escape, Fred intones the movie's beauty killed the beast line: “poor Benson, if they opened his chest they'd find a formula where his heart should be.” And yet Benson died happy – as the Outsider explodes he is triumphant in his ability to understand its secrets, and laughing at the foolishness and cowardice of his fellow man. It is the survivors who are miserable, mourning the loss of Benson himself as well as of Cathy, whose death was entirely meaningless.

I'm not sure what the movie is trying to tell us about these different approaches to life. It seems to present them as ultimately incompatible, that attempts to give logic and emotion equal weight can only end in tears. Only Benson, who was unswerving in his devotion to science, is ultimately satisfied. Perhaps the take-home message is that whatever your principles are, happiness lies in following them to their conclusion.

There's a second message, too, in different approaches to science itself. Modern physicists will often describe themselves as either theoretical or experimental... the two fields do compliment each other, but they often take place in different rooms, and one will be seen as leading the way for the other. The search for the Higgs Boson was theory-led: people were pretty sure it existed, they just had to find it. A great deal of astrophysics, however, is result-led: what we see tells us that there are things going on, like dark matter and dark energy, that we know nothing about, and the theorists must do their best to figure it out.

For most of his life, Benson has been a theorist. He sits in his greenhouse chalking on the floors, spinning theories out of other people's results or out of pure mathematics. Until the arrival of the Outsider, he had no interest in going out and exploring or experimenting. But it quickly becomes clear to him that he cannot understand the Outsider through pure theory, as his calculations cannot account for the decisions of its makers. In order to know it, he must see it for himself, so he grandly announces his intention to leave his 'den'. Nobody ever asks him if it was worth it, but his maniacal smile at the moment of his death suggests that it was.

Battle of the Worlds had potential to be a really interesting movie, but ultimate the way its shot and edited make it mainly a very dull one. Like its own characters, it fails to find the balance it needed.

#mst3k #reviews #episodes that never were #battle of the worlds #60s

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lesbiansforboromir · 3 years

Text

Impossible LotR Quiz Answer sheet with explanations!

As an addendum, since people have been doing the quiz I’ve seen a few mistypes and awkwardnesses that are my own fault so I’ve corrected them. This means some people got a higher score than was shown, know that when I looked over your answers I saw your actually right answers and fully appreciated them! It’s good to not that the ‘fill in the blanks’ questions will not take two words in one space, so I’ve had to get creative with how I apply two named folk like Mardil Voronwe, or people who have numbers like Hurin I.

I would also like to say, to everyone talking about how they’ve never read the Silmarillion, this quiz is very purposefully almost entirely based outside of the Silmarillion. This is Appendices stuff! Indeed there is only 1 question even tangentally related to elves in here, this is by design.

@magaramach, @brynnmclean and @apojiiislands asked to be tagged in this! Answers under the cut.

Q2. Who was Dora Baggins in relation to Bilbo Baggins? - Second cousin on his father's side Dora Baggins is a very elderly woman who was the daughter of Bilbo’s father’s brother. She likes writing people a lot of unsolicited advice! THIS WAS WRONG AND SAID FIRST COUSIN FOR SO LONG AND I AM DEEPLY SORRY FOR IT.

Q3. How many pairs of biological twins are mentioned in the whole of Arda's timeline and what races do they belong too? - 2 for men, 1 for elves and 3 for half-elves Fastred and Folcred, Haleth and Haldar (men) Amrod and Amras (elves) Elured and Elurin, Elrond and Elros, Elladan and Elrohir (half-elves) Now, admittedly Elladan and Elrohir are never actually described as twins. However they appear completely identical and have the same birth date, so it is assumed.

Q4. Baldor is who the skeleton scratching at the door used to be. When Aragorn and co pass through the paths of the dead they find a skeleton clawing at a door to the mountain. It is finely dressed and described as mighty and was later essentially confirmed to be Baldor, the eldest son of King Brego of Rohan, also called Baldor the hapless, who foolishly wandered into the paths of the dead on, apparently, a dare. (the answer to this was originally Brego because of a foolish typo from me, many apologies!)

Q5. When was the Ondonóre Nómesseron Minaþurie written? - During Meneldil's reign. “Enquiry into the Place-names of Gondor” was a text written by settled numenoreans about their new kingdom during Meneldil’s reign, who was the first sole King of Gondor after both Anarion (his father) and Isildur had perished.

Q6. Farmer Maggot's particular friend was Tom Bombadil It is stated that Farmer Maggot sometimes peacefully passes through the Old Forest to go and meet Tom Bombadil, who very much enjoys his company. However! Those who answered Merry or Pippin still deserve excellent recognition, Farmer Maggot was indeed fond of Pippin and respected Merry greatly.

Q7. What was the office of the Steward originally created to do? - Keep the Tradition of Isildur When Romendacil I went to war in the east, he realised that if he died then the secret of the Tradition of Isildur would die with him. Hence he wrote it down in a sealed scoll and gave it to a trusted confidante, to be given to his heir if he should perish. This tradition was maintained by further kings and those trusted confidantes became the Stewards of Gondor. This, admittedly, is a more suggested progression than explicit, but it’s a Impossible evil quiz so :) Q8. What was the 'Tradition of Isildur'? - Remember where Elendil was buried. Elendil had been secretly entombed in Calenardhon, supposedly the midpoint between Gondor and Arnor. This was a hallowed space for only Kings at first, but in later years when the Stewards came to rule Gondor they also were permitted the secret. Cirion had the remains moved when Calenardhon was gifted to the Eotheod to eventually become a part of the Kingdom of Rohan.

Q9. At the time of Pelargir's founding, is the world flat or round? - Flat. Pelargir was founded as a ‘Faithful Numenorean’ haven on the river Anduin. Therefore it was built before Numenor’s destruction in the Akallabeth, the reason for which being that Eru turned the world from flat to round.

Q10. Which of these monarchs were indolent and had no interest in ruling? - King Atanatar I - King Narmacil I - Tar-Vanimelde King Atanatar I ruled during Gondor’s richest generation and seemed to believe that meant he didn’t need to put any work in. Narmacil I, his son, didn’t want to put any work in, but he at least assigned his nephew, Minalcar, as ‘Karma-Kundo’ or regent during his reign. So he at least did something to keep the country going. Tar-Vanimelde had no interest in ruling and allowed her husband to do most of the governence. This backfired when she died and he organised a coup against his son to hold power.

Q11. When looking back on the Ship-Kings of Gondor, King Tarannon Falastur began the invasion of Harad and expanded Gondor's borders, King Earnil-I finally took Umbar but died at sea shortly afterwards, King Ciryandil spent most of his reign trying to defend Umbar and died in it's seige and King Hyarmendacil defended Umbar against seiges for 35 years before making war upon all Harad and claiming Harondor as a province of Gondor, ending the line of the Ship Kings.

Q12. What happened during the reign of King Romendacil II? - I don't know! Nothing? Yes I know this is particularly evil of me but Romendacil II was originally called Minalcar, yes the same Minalcar who became REGENT of Gondor due to Narmacil’s indolent nature. Minalcar indeed did everything else listed as answers to this question, but none of them happened during his reign as king. Indeed, his reign was said to be peaceful and we have no real information on it, so technically saying we don’t know, and suggesting nothing happened, is actually the most correct answer :)

Q13. Who succeeded Tar-Telperien of Numenor? - Her nephew, Minastir Tar-Telperien was a lesbian Queen of Numenor who never married and never wanted too and did an excellent job and I love her. Her nephew built a tower to mope in about how much he wanted to be an elf. They are not the same. Absolutely terrified about what Amazon could do to her.

Q14. Whilst his brethren, the nazgul, were attacking the Prancing Pony, The Witch-King was waiting in the Barrow Downs and probably had a really nice time. Not much to this! Witch King was chilling with the Barrow Wights.

Q15. Which of these characters are described as 'beautiful' at least once in the Lord of the Rings? - Galadriel, Denethor, Eowyn, Frodo, Elanor, Celeborn, Boromir Yes, Arwen is never described as beautiful, but Denethor is :)

Q16. We all love Boromir II, select the similarities he and Boromir I did NOT share. - Renowned relationship with the Rohirrim. - Destroyed the Bridge of Osgiliath - Feared by the Witch King - Retook Ithilien. - Had a brother. In case you’re wondering, yes, I love both Boromirs. But this question is a fun highlight of how many similarities Boromir II has with his namesake. These are the only things they didn’t both do. Although! Boromir I’s son was Cirion who allied with the Eotheod and created Rohan in the first place, the Uruk-Hai destroyed the Bridge of Osgiliath in Boromir I’s lifetime, Boromir II was PROBABLY feared by the witch-king we just don’t know, Boromir II held Ithilien and Boromir I had two elder sisters like Denethor II did.

Q17. Hey, did you know that, from Boromir I's war with the Uruk-Hai of the Morgul Vale, Gondor didn't know peace until Sauron's death on the 25th of March, 3019? Hah hah! How gut wrenching is that? About how long do you think it has been since Gondor knew peace then? Hey wait does that mean Boromir I's valiant victory that came at a personal sacrifice was the beginning of Gondor's wars and then Boromir II's valiant sacrifice was the end- oh god... oh fuck - 550 years To everyone who answered the crossed out answer,,, you’re correct in my heart. You get bonus points. Also hey! What the fuck :)

Q18. Who was Borondir? - The rider sent to find Eorl who made it to him after starving himself for two days but who then rode to the Celebrant with Eorl anyway and died in that battle. Literally couldn’t love this fellow more. Big Hirgon energy. A hero of Gondor for time immemorial.

Q19. The Ruling Stewards, from first to last (with their numbers typed as so Turin-I Hurin-II etc), were as follows; Mardil ; Eradan ; Herion ; Belegorn ; Hurin-I ; Turin-I ; Hador ; Barahir ; Dior ; Denethor-I ; Boromir-I ; Cirion ; Hallas ; Hurin-II ; Belecthor-I ; Orodreth ; Ecthelion-I ; Egalmoth ; Beren ; Beregond ; Belecthor-II ; Thorondir ; Turin-II ; Turgon ; Ecthelion-II ; Denethor-II ; and for like two seconds ; Faramir ; Alrighty, we had a bit of a fight in my discord about this but eventually I did relent in agreement that Faramir IS... very briefly... legally considered a RULING Steward. Ruling Stewards being Stewards that ruled a Kingless Gondor. But! With Aragorn RIGHT THERE is just seemed very redundant. Still! I’ll allow the pedant to win out, ten minutes is still a Ruling Steward. ALSO! I decided that having an extra box for the ‘voronwe’ part of mardil voronwe was just mean as it set everyone’s answers off kilter, so I removed that. ALSO for all of those calling me a bastard for adding this question, @illegalstargender was the one who requested it! I wasn’t going too!

Q20. The Stewards, despite ruling through very tumultuous and violent periods, were often known for boring things (because they simply ruled better than the Kings did, I said what I said) But what boring thing was Steward Turin I remembered for? - Being the only monarch of Gondor that married twice This skeezy bastard really did marry a second time during his OLD age just to father a son. I can only imagine what a dreadful cultural and social effect this had on this prude country. It’s so unnecessary! He had daughters, many of them! One of them certainly had a son before he did. He was just being a controlling arse, down with Turin I!!!!

#my quiz

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czarojay · 3 years

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//This is gonna be a long, probably not properly formatted post, but i just couldn’t help but gush about and ramble about this. Also prepare for a wall of text why everyone is the traitor /hj//

I just have so many thoughts on what happened yesterday. Like all the foreshadowings and plotholes and plotlines have been set in motion, completed or filled. And it makes my little writer soul happy, you know?

It was obvious Techno and Wilbur would be the traitors, since Wilbur multiple times said so himself and Techno literally murdered Tubbo in cold blood. Maybe not so much cold blood cause “hE WAS PEER PRESSURED” and stressed af, but you get the point.

We knew Philza would join Dream SMP pretty much, since Wilbur showed him the script on stream recently. Also like Traitor Philza anyone? How many posts have you seen of the ultimate traitor being Philza? I have seen lots, but in the end weren’t like half the people traitors? Niki betrayed Pogtopia subtly by leaving and building another city, but i guess this depends on your point of view and opinion, since in the final battle she did fight for Pogtopia. Wilbur was the traitor (everyone knows that) by blowing up Manburg, when it all seemed to go right. Techno was the traitor to Pogtopia, but was also betrayed by Pogtopia. Techno was here to abolish government not make another, but at the first time, he knew what he was getting into. Tommy spoke about taking back L’Manburg for two months, since the election, so I do not know why the surprise. While I agree with Techno that they were just terrorists, because Schlatt was elected, voted, not a tyrant in full meaning of that word (this is so complicated, i love this). Eret was the traitor to Dream for a change, because he wanted to help and join Pogtopia, but was also betrayed by Dream, who had supposedly no way of knowing Eret was going to betray them, he just took the crown and plopped it down on our cottagecore lesbian George, who either sleeps or builds cute houses.

Also Philza being the one to slay Wilbur is just amazing, because there are so many possibilities motives. Philza said he couldn’t kill Wilbur, but he looked on the people of Manburg, L’Manburg, Pogtopia and Dream SMP, Badlands, he looked at all the people gathered here, staring up at him and he said he couldn’t kill his son. Wilbur said he was the one who destroyed L’Manburg, His L’manburg and ordered Philza to murder him. And he did. But why?

Did Philza kill Wilbur, because he knew, that even with Schlatt gone, Wilbur would continue to cause wars and battles and death and pain? Did Philza kill Wilbur, because he knew that Tommy looks up to Wilbur and wouldn’t be able to not let himself be manipulated? Did Philza kill Wilbur, because he thought nothing else could stop him from becoming a monster? Did Philza kill Wilbur, his son, because he couldn’t bear the thought of not being able to help his son, while one is traumatised, staring at them from where he miraculously survived the explosion and the other one was betrayed, but also a traitor and he just needed to do something? Did Philza kill Wilbur, because he looked at the blown up land and he heard his son begging for death and he at that moment was the only person who could make a change?

Hell if i know, there are too many posssibilities, but what i DO know is that i’m going to meet theories and conspiracies across my tumblr dash for weeks and I will be able to read all your amazing essays and I just can’t wait for it you know?

Chekhov’s gun. We knew L’Manburg would blow up. It would make no sense for it to not blow up after a month of it being the major plot device, one of the few things to keep it going. It needed to happen or otherwise the plot wouldn’t make sense. If this was a book and not minecraft roleplay, I bet everyone would be angry that the Wilbur character didn’t blow up as he said he would through half of the third book of the series! Sure there would be people happy that he didn’t, but let’s all be honest here, all the AUs would feature him blowing it up, it was really the only way for there not to be a massive plothole.

Tubbo becoming a president wasn’t that to be expected before the stream, but during the conversation with Quackity it was hinted towards. We all thought it would be Tommy who’d been hinted towards in the “You’re never going to be a president, Tommy” speech of Wilbur. And to be fair, he was a president for like 1.2 seconds, before he went back to get his discs which as exasperated leave me, because come on you’ve been at these discs for like almost HALF A YEAR WOW, make me happy cause it means more plot to come, chekhov’s gun right? I’m not sure if this applies here though, since they’ve already been used. We’ll wait and see right? Tubbo became a president like he was supposed to become. We all expected him to become the vice president, since Tommy always titled him his right hand man and the parallels were too strong. From Secretary of State through Schlatt’s right hand man through a traitor to end as the President of L’Manburg. Or New L’Manburg should I say?

And it’s even worse when you think about how Wilbur appointed Tommy KNOWING L’Manburg would blow up in a moment. He wanted to give him everything he could ever want and then steal it away the next second, violently, not leaving a shred of hope for it to return. Because, you see, with the discs? Tommy always could fight for them, steal them, get them back. Physical small objects, but worth so much. But L’Manburg? Tommy just got it back, his second home, his people, his place and Wilbur planned to immediately rip it away violently. Tommy would rage, he’d curse, he’d plan revenge. Which is exactly the reason Tubbo is the better choice to be a president.

Tubbo doesn’t hold grudges, so unless he’s manipulated, not many wars will be initiated by him. He was one of the people who tried to fight the wither, he was the one who immediately jumped to gathering people and making plans for the future of their country. He was the one who made plans to rebuild their nation stronger and better. He jumped to making and building and communicating rather than fighting, which seems to me like something a good leader would do.

Wilbur as the president barely did things, mostly used pretty words or fought. Only later in Pogtopia he actually did most of the stuff in their ravine, but he still left grinding and food for Techno and in the end he went insane and no good leader should be an insane one. Schlatt? Schlatt wanted to chop down the trees, kill the animals and destroy the nature. He may have been a better, closer and an actually elected leader compared to Wilbur, but that doesn’t mean he was a good leader. So it is possible Tubbo will be the best leader yet.

But will he even be able to be truly a leader? Tubbo said himself he’s not sure how the whole president thing goes and he agreed to just call it a friend group, so they’re not demolished by Technoblade again, so he’s never going to be truly a leader, especially since Philza joined and everyone looks up to Philza. They’re not going to have a leader, because Techno will kill anyone who even hints towards it and Dream would probably do that as well. Or so he says, but then he made Dream SMP a kingdom, a proper kingdom with a true king. Because let’s agree, Eret was never a leader before. He was just there, sitting pretty in his forest. There was no true kingdom before, just a group of people who decided to play along for the sake of the spy. But even then, it seems pretty hypocrytical of Dream, doesn’t it? He says down with the government, with organized nations, presidents and leaders and yet...

King George has happened. But at what cost, I would say sadly and possibly crying if I didn’t expect it to happen. It was bound to happen since the very first WHITE FLAGS, TOMORROW, OR YOU’RE DEAD. He’s earned no right to the title, he didn’t participate in this war, he hardly does anything on the server. He’s just an heir. Dream forcefully removed the last monarch, so George could become the king and I feel this is going to be a big thing in future, since it wasn’t that focused on during the last streams. I think so at least? We’ll see.

There’s just so many things to cover here, possibilities are WILD, the lore is just SO HEAVY and I am Thriving, capital T. But isn’t the whole fandom? We’re all loving it here, right? And I want to write even more, but at the same time, I’ve already got 1.5 k words and I’m afraid nobody will read it if i continue, SO HAVE A GOOD DAY IF YOU READ SO FAR. SUBSCRIBE TO PHILZA.

#dream smp #Philza #Ph1lza #Technoblade #Tommyinnit #Tubbo #Tommy #Wilbur Soo #Wilbur Soot #Jschlatt #Dream #Georgenotfound #Quackity #mcyt #16th november #november 16 #101 talks #ideas and analysis

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sketch--booked · 3 years

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Awesome ninjago dream time!

I had a dream like, 10 minutes ago and hell it was cool. It had Echo, Zane as a focus but included the rest of the ninja too which surprised me. Except for Jay, he just wasn’t in the dream,,, I don’t know why--

From what I remember, Kai, Cole and Zane were separated from the rest, and were in this tower lookin’ place, think Donnie’s lab from RotTMNT, but darker.

The center of the room was just brimming with blue and white electricity, and as they walk in, someone walks out from behind the column of static. It’s Echo, but he’s not copper or gold, he’s a purple-ish grey silver (the sides of his head and hair was darker than his face and his eyes were gold, straight gold, they stood out against the blues and blacks). Ngl, looked kinda like Ultron.

He comes out and I remember Kai and Cole look to Zane and Zane just looks conflicted, scared, confused, concerned. Echo says something, probably about knowing Zane or how they’re totally related, and it makes Kai and Cole real mad, and the two of them start to fight Echo. Zane is not fighting and instead stands back as he watches, what looks like, himself fighting his friends. The battle continues and Nya and Lloyd (without Jay?? Jay just wasn’t in this dream) join in just as Echo pushes some button, directing the lightning to Kai and Cole, and they disappear.

They do not die, and in fact are teleported to a jungle island(?). They get thrown out of what looks like a wormhole, and immediately assume they were banished to another realm (understandably) and Kai of all people begins having an unexpected panic attack to which Cole comforts him and they choose to wander along the edge of the beach to map out their surroundings (my dream gave me a reason for them leaving, thanks brain).

I think it would be fun to mention that this dream all happens in a stylized animated way, that’s generally how my dreams look, but with Kai and Cole’s “scenes” it looks like the minifigs, and I would love to point out that Cole has a bandanna and man bun and tore his black trousers to resemble shorts, while Kai ends up tearing his gi to look like a crop vest with no arms and has light brown trousers instead of red... It was a cool design honestly, I’m proud of my brain.

Back to Lloyd, Nya and Zane. Echo ends up beating Lloyd and Nya pretty badly and directs his attention to Zane, still having a mini freak-out, and tells him all about how Zane was the one that was loved, Zane wad the son Julien wanted, Zane got cool powers and made friends. While Echo was a copy of that, Julien didn’t want echo, he wanted his real son, Echo didn’t get powers, Echo didn’t get friends of love, he didn’t even get his brother. So now he was gong to take that all away, so Zane could know exactly what Echo felt.

It strikes then that Echo is his brother. And tries desperately to talk to Echo, while Echo is continuously attacking Zane. Eventually , Zane places himself on an Ice podium to escape Echo’s barrage of attacks and Echo takes this as an opportunity to play with Zanes head. He begins to talk about how he’s always been above the rest, pointing to Nya and Lloyd, and how he’s the one that gets the attention since he’s “oh so special”. Zane uses logic to negate everything Echo throws at him, throwing in his line “I am built to protect those who cannot protect themselves” and it is that sentence that throws Echo off the edge.

Echo is yelling, screaming at him, throwing all his emotions into one big pile and telling Zane everything he’s felt and done because he just wanted what Zane had. Echo doesn’t know that through this, he’s crying and Zane’s lowered himself from his podium to stand in front of Echo. Echo looks up to see Zane also has tears in his eyes. And in an unspoken attempt to make things up, Zane hugs Echo, tight, and hold him close, Echo is tense at first but softens into the hug. Echo’s sobs are drowned by the cracking and popping of the machine and the two just sit on the floor together in a brotherly embrace.

My dreams don’t end happy though and it all goes wrong! Sirens emitting from the computers and warnings cover the screens. Echo pulls from the hug instantly and looks around frantically, landing his eyes on Zane and Zane looks in confusion. Echo dashes off to one of the computers close to the previously mentioned button. Lloyd and Nya, with their weapons still drawn but not prepared, move up to the brothers. Lloys asks what’s wrong and Echo states that the machine technically isn’t ready and that first blast actually could've destroyed them all. Echo did not equate for the recharge, and throughout their squabble the machine was just getting more and more charged.

Echo states the best way not to die, would be to teleport them all to the same location, since there would be no time to escape the blast radius. Lloyd and Nya are adamant that they could make it and just when they are about to leave the tower (which i’m realizing at this point is probably the lighthouse prison), when Zane puts his hand on Echo’s shoulder and says “I trust him”. Promoting a disbelieving and hopeful look from Echo and a hesitant glare from Nya to Lloyd, who states “If Zane trusts him, so do I”.

Nya is still hesitant but believes the same. The four stand together as Echo slams down on the same button, sending them all to the same location through the wormhole. Just as they do this, the Lighthouse combusts in a striking explosion of blues and purples. The lighthouse is no more.

When the four get thrown out, they appear at the same beach. Nya is okay with the location because there’s water. Lloyd is asking Echo all sorts of questions. “Why are you evil? Are you still evil? What was your main goal? Where are we right now? Are you honestly Zane’s brother? Are you even listen--” He’s not listening, and instead is looking away from them, ashamed.

Zane comes over, while Lloyd is still asking questions, to comfort him again. They have a conversation about how Echo thought this was the only way to get his attention and the only way to make him understand how he felt and Zane tells him that it’s okay to feel however he feels, what’s upsetting is the way he went about those emotions. Echo remarks that being a nindroid doesn’t help all to much and Zane laughs in understanding, saying “You will understand when you are older”.

Nya pulls Lloyd aside to point out two pairs of footprints in the sand. Lloyd calls Zane over who confirms that that is Cole and Kai’s shoe sizes, and Echo confirms that this is the location he intended to strand Zane on, realizing how bad that sounds out loud he looks away. Lloyd recommends they follow the prints to see where the two went and see if they can catch up.

This is where we go back to Kai and Cole, who are still traveling through the jungle, the beach cornered off into a cliff and Cole didn’t want to disturb any potential threats, so they continue inwards. (I’m writing this whole bit out exactly as I saw it, Cole getting upset)

Kai is cutting away at the leaves and sticks while ranting about how “When I get off this island, I’m gonna pin that little squirt to the ground and make him wish he was never built!”.

Cole reminds him that “If that ‘Little squirt’ really is Zane’s brother like he says, Zane probably wouldn’t be to thrilled with you smashing him into scrap.”

“Zane wouldn’t care! That twerp is clearly evil, did you see the way he zapped us?” Looking back at his friend.

Cole raises an eyebrow at him “...Evilly?”

“Exactly! Wait- yeah, evilly.” and Cole sighs “Besides, Zane knows better then to get friendly with villains, we’ve seen enough of how well that tuned out with-” He cuts himself off.

“You know Zane doesn’t like ‘that’ being mentioned, even when when he’s not here.” Cole reminds him calmly.

Kai paused “I-I know, I’m just--Mad! How can someone, supposedly your family, turn on you like that! It’s-”

“You did the same thing,” Cole interrupted. Kai stopped mid-swing and stared wide eyed at Cole, anger clearly starting to build. “What?” He prompted Cole to continue, carefully.

“You’ve fallen for the same trick as both of them, dude. Lloyd says you were persuaded by Chen’s staff just the same as Zane was by that Vex guy and the scroll,” He moved from following behind Kai to standing beside him.

“You also attacked your parents, thinking they were traitors, according to Nya. Of all of us, you should be able to see both sides clearer than the rest,” He takes one of Kai’s swords from it’s sheath on his back and begins to cut more bushes in his way.

“I guess that just makes you more blind to it then us instead.” He looks back, only to continue on his way. Kai is stood still for a few more moments, his arm frozen in the air like a game on pause. Soon though, before he loses sight of the Earth master in the brush, he jogs up to him, putting his own sword in it’s sheath allowing Cole to lead on. His words do sting and bore into his head. Recollection of both those events hurt by themselves, but with this new context, Kai couldn’t help but feel like Cole was right. Maybe he is more blind to how the “brothers” felt that he should be, or was that just him denying his own emotions?

AND THAT WAS IT--

That was my dream, and now there will be nothing done with it because LEGO are already doing a jungle adventure. My dreams are wild man, it’s like my brain is showing me a movie, it’s so cool--

I do like this concept, I love it in fact. But unless I want to change the entire vibe, I don’t think I would be able to make it a fan season. If season 14 wasn’t a jungle season-- I WOULD.

#ninjago #ninjago zane #ninjago echo zane #ninjago cole #ninjago kai #ninjago lloyd #ninjago nya #sorry jay you weren't in this one #where did jay go tho???#he just stayed in bed on the bounty man #i would actually say this is pretty good for a dream though #don't have any set up or end goal it's a pretty stand alone thing #sketch has a dream

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nyxshadowhawk · 3 years

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An Analysis of The Ninth Gate

I finally got around to watching The Ninth Gate after it was recommended on Occultism with a Side of Salt. Seriously, why did it take me so long to watch this film? This is pretty much everything I like! It’s a film from 1999 (incidentally, the same year as Eyes Wide Shut) starring Johnny Depp as an expert on rare books called Dean Corso. It’s based loosely on a novel by Arturo Pérez-Reverte called The Club Dumas, and was directed by Roman Polanski (who’s the man behind Tanz der Vampire, but who is extremely problematic and we do not stan). Corso is employed by a rich book collector named Boris Balkan to authenticate his copy of a grimoire called The Nine Gates of the Kingdom of Shadows, which may be the coolest title for a grimoire ever. The book is supposedly designed to summon the Devil himself, and was copied from another mysterious book that the Devil was said to have written. Corso compares the grimoire with the two other existing copies to find out which one is the real one, but there are mysterious deaths and other unsettling events around the book, and he has a mysterious girl helping him.

The film is very spooky and has a wonderful Dark Academia aesthetic. What’s most interesting to me about it is, although it isn’t authentically occult, it feels very authentic. The grimoire is clearly modeled after real ones. The engravings in the book also could easily be mistaken for real ones if I didn’t know better. I think that the pentagram on the cover is a little too on-the-nose, especially since pentagrams weren’t associated with Satanism until relatively recently — I think the Sigil of Lucifer would be a better fit, since it’s reasonably well-known (for example, the Mother Superior of the Satanic Nuns in Good Omens wears one instead of a cross) and it comes from a real grimoire. That’s me being very nitpicky, though. Although this film follows some tropes of Hollywood Satanism, its portrayal of that is still more realistic than normal. Real-life occult ritual groups are more like book clubs or potlucks, but the actual ritual part can in fact look something like the one in the film. (Sure, it wouldn’t be in a mansion with cool-ass gargoyles, but this is certainly more realistic than Eyes Wide Shut.)

This film feels authentically occult becuase a lot of real occultism is pouring over old books and analyzing symbolic images. I do a lot of that! Right now, I’m reading a dictionary of alchemical symbolism. I hope to eventually be able to look at all the weird images in alchemical manuscripts and make some sense of them. This film is basically about doing exactly that. I noticed the tarot symbolism in the engravings immediately, and I felt a little like I was trying to decipher them right alongside Corso. It reminded me of solving Nox Arcana puzzles, and that just makes me incredibly happy. The approach this film takes is also realistic — (slight spoilers) it could have gone the classic Hollywood route of summoning Satan to destroy the world and all that, but it doesn’t. Instead, the end goal is more abstract and spiritual, much more in-line with occultists’ actual goals in real life. Just as in alchemy, the goal is not to make gold or live forever, but to experience spiritual transcendence, and this is encoded in alchemists’ notes and artwork.

So, I want to try my hand at deciphering the engravings’ secrets, and test my own knowledge of occult symbolism in the process. Everything that follows involves major spoilers, so I will dispense with the exposition and assume that you have already seen the film.

I’ve seen it argued on YouTube that the engravings represent actual events in the film, and some of them seem to. Bernie is murdered and hung upside down, the collapsing scaffolding is the “danger from above” arrow, Corso is hit in the back of the head in one of the film’s most chilling scenes, and the Girl (who is implied to be Lucifer) ends up… well… “riding” him in front of the burning castle. But come on, that is way too easy. For one thing, the related events don’t seem to occur in any specific sequence, either the engravings’ numbered sequence or Balkan’s rearranged sequence. It would make sense if Corso would have to experience every engraving and “pass through each gate” — that happens a lot in films like this one, where an eerily coincidental series of events plays out just as in the book/prophecy/whatnot. But that doesn’t really happen, or if it does, it’s not obvious enough for the only interpretation of the engravings to be literal. What impresses me the most about The Ninth Gate is that it goes for that more figurative, spiritual dimension. That is really what makes it feel realistically occult.

The real solution to the engravings seems to be spiritual growth or enlightenment, which is the goal of most occultists. Balkan sort of understands this, which is why he disdains Telfer and her coven being edgy and playing dress up instead of really making an effort to understand Lucifer’s secrets. And yet, Balkan also fails, because he is after power, not enlightenment. It seems as though both of them misunderstand Lucifer, believing him to be the kind of Lucifer that you usually see in these movies. (That would fit in well with his name and his role in the Eden story, if you interpret it that way.) If we assume that the Girl is Lucifer, then she is more benevolent an influence than anything else. Hell, Corso doesn’t even suffer any “temptation” consequences from having sex with her. Corso wins in the end because he actually puts in the effort, and the Girl helps guide him toward enlightenment. Maybe Lucifer is a good force in this film’s world. Lucifer’s own versions of the engravings seem to emphasize that s/he is genuinely invested in helping his/her followers towards enlightenment.

When Balkan assembles the engravings in the proper order, this is his interpretation of the riddle:

To travel in silence, by a long and circuitous route, to brave the arrows of misfortune, and fear neither noose nor fire, to play the greatest of all games and win, foregoing no expense, is to mock the vicissitudes of fate and gain at last the key that will unlock the Ninth Gate.

First, I want to say that this riddle reminds me a lot of the Emerald Tablet. It’s similarly cryptic, and I only sort of have it figured out. I love that something like that is real and authentically ancient. Anyway, moving on. I’ll go through the engravings in the order that Balkan puts them in (as opposed to their numbered order), and see if I can make sense of them.

The first engraving shows a knight traveling towards a castle. In the AT version of the engraving, the castle has four towers, while in LCF’s version, it has three. Balkan’s interpretation is “To travel in silence,” while the caption is “Silence is golden.” That immediately reminds me of the common occult maxim, “To Know, to Will, to Dare, to Keep Silent.” I’ve never been much of a fan of keeping silent, which is why I post things like this on the internet, but in general occultists tend to be secretive folk. According to this article, another translation of the caption is “Only one who has battled according to the rules will prevail.” I’m not sure whose rules are being referred to here. Lucifer’s, maybe?

This is one of the only engravings in which there is no obvious tarot symbolism. There are four Knights in tarot, one for each suit — wands, swords, cups, and pentacles — but this knight doesn’t have a symbol of any of the suits or anything that could suggest that. The difference is in the castle towers — three in LCF’s, four in AT’s. In traditional numerology, three is a number symbolizing perfection and creation, as in the Holy Trinity, while four is the number of the solid and material and unlucky. (Source: Richard Cavendish, The Black Arts). Sets of three are especially common in fairy tales and mythology — three siblings, three tasks, three encounters, three magical objects, three questions, three trials or tests, repeating an action three times with the third time being different or conclusive, etc. Lucifer’s castle at the end also has three sets of towers. The most obvious interpretation of this is that your destination will be either material gain (AT) or spiritual advancement (LCF).

In the tarot, the threes represent the completion of the first stage of a venture — the Three of Wands represents a successful enterprise, the Three of Cups represents celebration and fulfillment, and the Three of Pentacles represents recognition for your achievements. All of them have something to do with attainment except for the Three of Swords, which represents loss, heartbreak, betrayal, etc. The fours aren’t bad, representing stability and structure — the Four of Wands is joyful and peaceful, the Four of Swords takes time to rest and recoup, the Four of Cups is bored and listless, and the Four of Pentacles receives material abundance. All of them are a bit more grounded and material, so I think it makes the most sense to interpret the difference in this engraving as being the spiritual three vs. the material four, and leave it at that.

The fourth engraving, which is second in Balkan’s sequence, is of a jester standing at the entrance to a labyrinth. In LCF’s version the labyrinth’s exit is open, while in AT’s it is bricked up. Balkan interprets this as meaning “by long and circuitous route,” while the caption reads “Fate is not the same for all.” that seems fairly straightforward — Balkan and Corso have different fates. Corso is able to find his way out of the Labyrinth, but Balkan’s exit is bricked up. This is because he never properly experienced the journey the way Corso did, he just wanted the payoff and tried to take shortcuts.

The Labyrinth is a very old symbol, and it carries the dual symbolism of a death trap in which there is a Minotaur, and a path to spiritual enlightenment. It can represent the Underworld or the darkness of the subconscious mind, with the Minotaur being your Shadow. Either you are trapped in the Labyrinth and eaten by the monster, or you find your way back out into the light having gained some self-awareness. The jester is probably meant to represent 0 The Fool, who, in the Tarot, is the naive adventurer who sets out on a spiritual journey over the threshold and into the realm of the subconscious and symbolic — i.e. the Labyrinth. As for the dice in the foreground, this seems to reinforce the caption’s point about fate. But dice, like tarot cards, can be used as both a game and a divination tool — it is the assumption of the diviner that random chance is always meaningful. And indeed, the visible faces on each die add up to 6 — 666.

The third engraving depicts a traveler walking towards a bridge. In the clouds above him, there’s a Cupid-like figure with an arrow pointing down at him. Balkan’s interpretation is “to brave the arrows of misfortune,” and the caption is “The lost word keeps the secret.” AT’s version is pictured here; in LCF’s version, there are two arrows, the other one pointing upwards in the quiver.

This traveller looks much more like the traditional Tarot depiction of 0 The Fool than the jester. The Fool is happy-go-lucky and doesn’t notice the danger he might be walking into. TV Tropes describes The Fool trope as referring to a person who, despite having no idea what they’re doing, doesn’t come to any harm because of their luck and innocence. So, the traveler will probably not be hit by the arrow, the same way Corso avoids the collapsing scaffolding. The two arrows in the LCF version seem to reinforce the idea of there being two possible outcomes. The arrow pointing up and the other one pointing down could also reference the famous occult maxim, “As above, so below,” adding another spiritual dimension to it. Balkan’s interpretation of the engraving reminded me a lot of a certain famous soliloquy: “To be or not to be, that is the question: / Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer / The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, / Or to take arms against a sea of troubles / And by opposing end them.” In this scene, Hamlet is considering whether or not to take his own life. But when applied to this engraving, these lines seem to once again suggest the two possible outcomes — you can suffer and die, or move on towards your goal.

And then there’s the caption. “The lost word keeps the secret.” Well, it’s pretty obvious what that refers to — the ninth engraving, replaced with a forgery that changes the meaning of the entire thing. The missing engraving contains the secret. But that caption seems completely irrelevant to this engraving, except that the face of the archer doesn’t look remotely like a baby’s, as putti usually do — it looks like an old man’s, specifically, the Ceniza brothers’, who removed and replaced the missing engraving.

The sixth engraving, fourth in Balkan’s sequence, depicts a man hanging upside-down by his ankle, and an arm with a flaming sword reaching out of a castle tower. Balkan’s interpretation of this is “and fear neither noose nor fire,” which proves he knows fuck all about tarot. No wonder he got the riddle wrong. This one is so blindingly obvious. The man isn’t hanging by his neck, he’s hanging by his foot. He’s the Hanged Man.

XII The Hanged Man is a strange and disturbing card at first glance, but it has become one of my favorites. The Hanged Man is almost never depicted hanging by his neck; he hangs by his foot, and has a serene expression, indicating that he wants to be there. He represents going through a period of tribulation, suffering, surrender, or introspection in order to obtain wisdom, enlightenment, self-awareness, and insight. He goes through a metamorphosis, just like the caterpillar that hangs upside-down in its chrysalis to become a butterfly. He’s a Christlike figure, evidenced by the halo around his head in the Rider-Waite deck, and the fact that he willingly suffers for a higher purpose. He even wears the same colors as Jesus in Da Vinci’s The Last Supper in the Rider-Waite deck, although I’m not sure if that’s on purpose or not.

The caption to the engraving is “I am enriched by death,” which is a million times more meaningful than Balkan’s interpretation. If you’re an occultist, that line is probably self-explanatory. Pretty much everything mystical involves that theme of (symbolically) dying and being resurrected. The alchemical process has three stages — nigredo, which is death, albedo, which is the ascension of the soul, and rubedo, which is returning to life in a “purified” body as a more spiritual being. The Hero’s Journey follows this same pattern — the hero entering the Underworld or the Labyrinth and facing trials that allow them to spiritually ascend and achieve apotheosis (or something close to it). It’s everywhere in books, movies, and video games. It is the initiation ritual. Most occultists figuratively go through it in one way or another. And in tarot, XII The Hanged Man is at the rough midpoint of the Fool’s journey through the Major Arcana, and immediately followed by XIII Death. “I am enriched by death.” You cannot be reborn as a new and better version of yourself without first having died.

The difference between AT’s and LCF’s engravings is that AT’s has the Hanged Man hanging by his right foot, while LCF’s has him hanging by his left foot. I don’t think this changes the meaning of the engraving too much. In Rider-Waite, the Hanged Man hangs by his right foot, but in the Tarot de Marseille, which is older, he hangs by the left foot. The only significance to this that I can see is that the Latin word for “left” is sinistram, and the word “sinister” has its current meaning because left was considered Satanic. Left-handed people were discriminated against for this reason, until as late as the mid-20th century. In occultism, the “Left-Hand Path” is an approach to magic that involves rejecting tradition and dogma and generally being edgy. I think that the right-hand and left-hand paths are a false dichotomy (you use both your hands, don’t you?), but anything Satanic is considered part of the Left-Hand Path. Jung associated left with the unconscious, so we’re back to the Labyrinth.

I don’t have much to say about the flaming sword. It could be foreshadowing Balkan’s death (more on that later), or it could represent the flaming sword of the angel of Eden (i.e. guarding spiritual knowledge).

The seventh engraving, fifth in Balkan’s sequence, is of a king and a peasant playing a chess game. Two dogs are fighting in the background, and the moon can be seen through the window. In AT’s version, the board is black, and in LCF’s, the board is white. Balkan interprets it as “to play the greatest of all games,” and the caption is “The disciple surpasses the master.”

The tarot symbolism that I see here is that of XVIII The Moon, which has dogs baying at it in the Rider-Waite deck. The Moon represents the subconscious, imagination, and dreams, but also nightmares, madness, and illusion. The illusion here is probably still the missing engraving being replaced by the forgery. The themes of the subconscious get reinforced. Underneath the Moon, a black dog and a white dog fight each other, almost seeming to create a yin/yang shape. This brings the dark and the light into balance, the same way the Moon spends equal times dark and bright as it goes through its phases. The game is chess, which is played with black and white pieces, and the board is either black or white. The game seems to be a draw, making the peasant and the king equals, just as the dogs are unable to defeat each other. So, this engraving is all about reconciling dualities.

There’s another layer to this. God is the “King of Kings,” so this could demonstrate a human becoming God’s equal. This is basically the goal of occultism — to become like God, in some form. Left-Hand Path’ers in particular seem to like the idea of becoming gods themselves, or even “surpassing” God. Since the book was created by Lucifer, this could tie in to Lucifer’s desire to become God’s equal that got him cast out of Heaven (but I’m not the biggest fan of that story, so I won’t go any further with that). To the occultist, man is God, just as God can become a man — as above, so below. That’s also a form of reconciling the duality of human and divine.

The caption, “The disciple surpasses the master,” probably refers to this, but it could also refer to Corso surpassing Balkan and succeeding where Balkan failed. Any good teacher wants their students to have learned so well that they surpass them. God (or Lucifer) intends for his disciples to surpass him, but Balkan tries (and fails) to prevent Corso from surpassing him.

The fifth engraving, which is sixth in Balkan’s sequence, depicts a man counting coins while Death stands behind him with a pitchfork and hourglass. Balkan’s interpretation is “and win, foregoing no expense,” while the caption reads “In vain.” Balkan is an idiot. Exactly like the man in the engraving, he is focused entirely on the money and completely misses the literal shadow of Death standing behind him. How does one overlook the significance of that? There’s a big difference between “I won the game so now I get money” and “in vain”! Of course, this means that Balkan is too focused on material pursuits and misses that he is about to die. In AT’s version, the sand is at the top of the hourglass, while in LCF’s version, it is at the bottom — the man has run out of time. The expression “you can’t take it with you” comes to mind. Money and material goods don’t ultimately matter compared to spiritual growth. “In vain.”

In tarot, XIII Death almost never represents physical death. Instead, it represents change, usually a change for the better. Death is about letting go of old things so that new things can come, stepping through a threshold into another life or state of being. This can be difficult or emotionally painful, but it is necessary and ultimately beneficial. If The Hanged Man is the chrysalis, then Death is the emerging butterfly (the Greek word psyche means both “soul” and “butterfly,” because butterflies represent the souls of the dead). Once again, Death is a required step towards spiritual advancement. And if you refuse to acknowledge this, it isn’t going to go well for you.

The checkerboard floor probably continues to reinforce the theme of duality. As for the pitchfork, maybe the reason Death has a peasant’s pitchfork instead of a scythe is because pitchforks are associated with Satan, or it could be a representation of peasants taking revenge on rich people. Or it could be a reference to American Gothic. I think it’s the first one.

The eighth engraving, which is seventh in Balkan’s sequence, depicts a praying man about to be bludgeoned by a knight with a mace, with the Wheel of Fortune in the background. Balkan’s interpretation is “to mock the vicissitudes of fate” and the caption says “Virtue is defeated.”

The Wheel of Fortune is a medieval motif that shows how fortune is apparently random. Some get to be kings, others are serfs, and your fortunes can turn at any moment. Just when you think everything is great, someone hits you on the back of the head. In tarot, X The Wheel of Fortune means exactly what you would expect it to — a twist of fate, a change of fortune. Whether it’s for better or for worse depends on the context and the cards around it. Life is full of ups and downs, so enjoy what you’ve got while you have it, etc. Sometimes when it shows up, it can mean that you should trust in fate.

But that’s the background. What to make of the foreground? Honestly, this is the most disturbing engraving to me, especially with the accompanying scene where Corso gets hit in the head. By whom? It’s probably Telfer’s lackey, because the knight in the engraving kind of looks like him. And if the caption is “Virtue is defeated,” the praying man hasn’t been defeated yet. The knight is about to hit him, not already standing over his body. It could be an example of “bad things happen to good people” — being virtuous won’t stop you from suffering. Since Corso is the one who gets hit in the back of the head, maybe that indicates that he’s the most virtuous character (which is saying a lot, since he’s not exactly an upstanding person). In LCF’s version of the engraving, the knight has a halo — does that mean that defeating Virtue is a good thing? I guess that would make sense if the artist is Satan? Or does it mean the knight is protecting the praying man? I don’t know. I genuinely am not sure how to interpret this one. What I do know is that Balkan is still an idiot. Nothing about this suggests mocking fate. If anything, this is an example of succumbing to it.

The second engraving, eighth in Balkan’s sequence, shows an old man with a dog, holding two keys in his hand. In AT’s version, the keys are in his right hand, and in LCF’s, they are in his left hand. Balkan’s interpretation is “gain at last the key,” and the caption is “Open that which is closed.”

This is another obvious tarot image. This is clearly The Hermit with his lantern. IX The Hermit represents withdrawing into solitude for contemplation and meditation, to gain spiritual wisdom and awareness. Like the Hanged Man, he indicates a need to be passive in the service of introspection. He’s the archetypical guru on a mountain, and he holds the keys to enlightenment. Keys represent access to information, and the ability to pass between worlds. “Open that which is closed” is pretty obvious — unlock the gates, receive spiritual insight. LCF’s version having the keys be in the left hand just reinforces everything I said about left earlier.

Also, that Hebrew symbol next to him is the one for the number nine. That suggests that the Hermit is right in front of the Ninth Gate. In numerology, nine is a magical number, being three times three. It represents completeness, spiritual achievement, and initiation. So, that’s self-explanatory. In tarot, tens are the ultimate state of completion, so the nines are the penultimate step — the Nine of Wands gives you the strength and willpower to overcome obstacles, the Nine of Cups represents success and contentment, and the Nine of Pentacles represents celebrating an accomplishment. (Once again, the Swords are the outlier, representing fear and despair.) Nines in general are good, the perfection of three multiplied by itself. (The Hermit is also the ninth card of the Major Arcana, if you noticed.)

And finally, we come to the ninth and final engraving (that Roman numeral should read “IX”). This depicts a woman who looks suspiciously like the Girl reading a book, ostensibly The Nine Gates of the Kingdom of Shadows, and riding a dragon with seven goatlike heads. There is a castle in the background, and the castle is a real place. There are three versions of the engraving — this one, which is signed by AT and has the castle as-is, a forged LCF engraving that shows the castle in flames, and the real one. Balkan’s interpretation is “that will unlock the Ninth Gate,” and the caption is “Now I know that from Darkness comes Light.”

The woman is apparently an image of the “Whore of Babylon” from Revelations, who rides a seven-headed dragon. I’m not really sure what she’s supposed to represent, beyond being generally Satanic. Of course, Crowley recasted her as a sex goddess. The seven heads of her dragon are significant — seven is the number of secrets, mysteries, magic, introspection, and searching for inner truth, which have been running themes this whole time. It also signifies creation, completeness, and rest, since God created the world in seven days. In tarot, the sevens present a new challenge after the perfection of the sixes — the Seven of Wands brings new obstacles that require determination to overcome; the Seven of Cups represents imagination, dreams, and illusions, so back to The Moon again (and the illusion of the forgery); the Seven of Swords also represents deception or a con artist (like the Ceniza twins, or maybe Balkan); and the Seven of Pentacles represents a threshold or a new opportunity, and reflecting on one’s achievements. That all aligns scarily well with the situation here.

The critical illusion is that the “LCF” engraving with the burning castle is a forgery. So, Balkan sets himself on fire for no reason other than egomania. This image is similar to XVI The Tower in Tarot. The Tower is one of the scariest cards to get. If Death is a difficult but beneficial change, The Tower is a dramatic turn for the worse, complete destruction and devastation. It is struck by lightning and destroyed, going up in flames. I drew this card shortly before the pandemic hit. That was The Tower — destruction, upheaval, devastation, but with the promise of rebuilding. I also had to deal with a lot of emotional turmoil because of an unrelated thing that happened around the same time, and it shook me to my core. So, obviously the forged engraving leads to Balkan’s destruction.

The true ninth LCF engraving shows the sun shining from behind one of the castle’s towers:

Replacing The Tower with The Sun is a drastic difference. If The Tower is one of the worst cards to get, XIX The Sun is one of the best. The Sun is a good omen in every capacity. It represents everything that these engravings have been working towards — spiritual growth, fulfillment, success, enlightenment, revelation of secrets, good fortune, etc. It fits right in with Lucifer’s status as the Light Bringer, and it is the solution. (The true engraving is also very reminiscent of The Star, which directly follows The Tower, and represents hope and the light at the end of the tunnel. I drew it recently, signifying the end of my emotional turmoil.) The jagged rocks at the bottom of the castle in the other two versions are missing here, and the castle is more accessible, with a visible path. The woman gestures directly to it.

The rest of the scene is much more shadowed in the true version, which fits right in with the caption: “Now I know that from Darkness comes Light.” I, in my obsession with Shadow work, interpret this as confronting the dark parts of oneself and bringing them out into the light to become a whole person, and to grow spiritually. This goes back to the Labyrinth, needing to enter the dark Underworld or the realm of the subconscious in order to gain spiritual wisdom and finally achieve enlightenment. Everything in the engravings seems to point back to that — needing a period of introspection, reconciling of duality, obtaining safe passage through the various trials until you see The Sun, which is followed by Judgement (resurrection) and The World (fulfillment). The Nine Gates of the Kingdom of Shadows are like the seven gates of the Underworld that Inanna must pass through (and that eight-pointed star is a symbol of Inanna). Corso passes through the Ninth Gate, out of the Kingdom of Shadows and into the light.

Balkan’s interpretation is clearly off. So, let’s rearrange the engravings back into their intended order:

Silence is golden. Open that which is closed. The lost word keeps the secret. Fate is not the same for all. In vain. I am enriched by death. The disciple surpasses the master. Virtue lies defeated. Now I know that from darkness comes Light.

If you, who seek after secrets, wish to unlock the gates to wisdom and enlightenment, be wary of potential dangers and missing pieces. You can either suffer and die, or move towards your goal. You will either find a way out of the Labyrinth or find that your path is blocked. Do not pursue material gains, and miss the shadow of Death hanging over you. Face Death, and you will be enriched by it, gaining spiritual insight that will allow you to surpass your superiors and become God’s equal. After a final challenge, test of virtue or twist of fortune, you will emerge from the darkness and into the light.

Am I reading way too deep into a spooky movie? Maybe, but come on! How could I resist? Do any of you have interpretations of your own?

Sources:

https://slapphappe.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/symbolism-in-the-ninth-gate/#%3A~%3Atext%3DThe%20fire%20at%20the%20Ninth%2Cof%20the%20Kingdom%20of%20Shadows.

https://davidjrodger.wordpress.com/2011/08/24/the-ninth-gate-occult-and-tarot-like-symbolism-in-the-engravings-by-aristide-torchia-and-lucifer-plus-wider-meanings-of-the-movie/

#the ninth gate #the ninth gate film #johnny depp #johnny depp movies #occult #occultism #occult symbolism #tarot #tarot symbolism #occult symbols #movie analysis #spooky #dark academia #dark acadamia aesthetic #occult films #lucifer

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gofancyninjaworld · 3 years

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2020 in One-Punch Man. Part 1: Manga

How shall I describe this succinctly?

It's like ONE and Murata looked around them, saw a raging pandemic, massive disruption to all walks of life, uncertainty of when, if, or how it might affect them, took a massive drag of their cigarettes and said: “Fuck being conservative. Let's go wild. Fuck making our current arc a webcomic retread with fancier fights. Let's introduce more lore, let's have more characters interact in ways one would never have imagined, let's have characters do things that hadn't previously been thought of and make this really exciting.“

If you were holding onto the webcomic as your guide to what next, 2020 was not a good year for you.

723 pages in 24 updates (including revisions) changed the status quo ante in deliciously unanticipated ways!

Where we left off in 2019, we were following the webcomic pretty faithfully, with most manga-original elements being removed at a fast clip. Phoenixman was dead, the mercenaries had died a brutal death, the ninjas had been resurrected but had run off buck naked, Orochi was dead, G5 was very much destroyed, Drive Knight had appeared but had obligingly limped off, taking Nyan with him. The S-Class heroes were in trouble with the cadre exactly as expected and Saitama had met up with Flashy Flash. Tatsumaki had finally found Psykos. Yup, no real changes here.

2020, HAHA!

Awaken!

Throwing manga-specific elements away? As if! They took the great opportunity that preparing chapters for publication to critically review and revise the story so as to first, make it move at a faster pace and second, to be enriched. It’s meant that chapters for volume 22, 23, and 24 (to come) have been redrawn to accommodate the changes and we got the benefit of many of them between April and August of this year.

We started with Phoenixman’s fight with Child Emperor. It started innocuously enough with Phoenixman resurrecting, but then we got a much more interesting chunk of knowledge -- the existence of a metaphysical world modelled on one’s on psyche where the assault on Child Emperor’s sense of self took a much more existential nature.

From a purely physical battle (and some nifty cool info about the Subterraneans) to an otherworldy battle happening in parallel with the physical battle:

It ended up a very interesting examination of Child Emperor’s character and his relationships with other heroes, as well as telling us something else freaky about Saitama’s ability to be anywhere he damn well wants to be.

Ah, and Phoenixman lives. Albeit as a little chick (for now). He’ll probably be back, but not just yet.

The mercenaries were next. They didn’t die. Not because Amai Mask had a change of heart, but because Iaian listened to the niggling feeling in the pit of his stomach and turned his team mates around to intervene just in time.

As you’d expect, trying to guide the mercenaries back to the safety of the surface has been an incredibly challenging ordeal for the disciples. It’s revealed much more about the way the disciples trust each other and lean on one another, and yet, when there was no option to do so, Iaian stepped up wonderfully to fight to save the mercenaries.

We’ve also learned something interesting about why mercenaries exist at all in a world supposedly at peace. I look forward to seeing where this plot might go next.

Elsewhere, we got to learn a little less about Puri Puri’s dancing and swimming lessons, but we got some really awesome nods to the mythical in Bakuma (the baku is a long-nosed creature formed out of all the bits left over after creation that eats dreams) and Electric Catfish Man’s sudden sense of doom is both reference to the way catfish are supposed to detect earthquakes and just damn cool.

A monsterised exploitative business man taking the form of a demonic dream-eating monster that consumes weaker monsters so as to exploit their abilities is so appropriate on many levels (and unreasonably hot!).

Yes, Waganma does make it to the surface, along with Saitama and Child Emperor. Saitama gets chased away by a Sekingar outraged that there’s a clueless hero just wandering aimlessly around. Child Emperor goes back underground and I loved to death Waganma being pierced with remorse as he realises that the hero is going to go risk his life anyway. He’s spoiled, but his keeping quiet came from a place of being a scared human being desperate to be saved (a surprising number of fans did not like that -- they preferred to think of him as a psychopathic monster incapable of remorse).

Orochi still has a date with a gloved fist, but he’s getting to live a little longer than he did before.

Overall the story is tighter and there’s a lot more interest as well as future plot hooks than there were. I’m interested in seeing how it gets tied up in the next volume sometime in 2021.

Reddit did not take it well. Summary of discourse:

sorry not sorry, I lost patience around the 500th whiny post

Advance!

What about the new chapters we got? Also here, ho ho ho, that status quo has gotten a good kicking!

Orochi came back. Not the most surprising surprise in the world, given how carelessly Saitama punched him. Also not surprising that he came back stronger; Phoenixman had wonderfully demonstrated that monsters can bounce back from near-death situations much stronger. But his form... such a disgusting, slimy, ever-shifting mass of tentacles and dragons, consuming all in its way led to the third craziest development: his fusion with Psykos to launch a new monster.

I’ll spare you the disgusting intermediate stages but the end result has been the birth of Psykos-Orochi and with that, what had been a total sweep for Tatsumaki turned into a much more dangerous enterprise where every mistake of hers got punished brutally.

Why is that only number three? Because Tatsumaki raised up the entire base to try to encompass the whole monster (and it turns out that she was thinking far too small -- the monster had actually eaten large sections of City Z) and Psykos-Orochi uses the space to launch a beam so powerful that it literally cuts off part of the Earth itself. It was a real I see it, but I don’t believe it moment.

if you didn’t spend a few seconds just staring in disbelief, you’re not paying attention. OMG. Boy is the Earth in trouble.

Why is that only the second craziest thing? Because of why this fusion monster was able to do as it did. ‘God’ doesn’t just go round looking like a semi-tangible being giving random homeless men magic powers. Yup, the Earth really in in trouble if some supernatural being is smushing monsters together to make a stronger one and then granting it extra powers. Just like that, the struggle has turned cosmic.

Tatsumaki trying to figure out how to fight back and save City Z from being swept away by a tsunami, save the heroes, and save the planet from further damage by the beams all at the same time was one of the most spectacular fights to date.

As I said earlier, this monster has presented Tatsumaki with a real fight where the slightest mistake on her part leads to severe punishment. She wound up in trouble when she underestimated how extensive the monster actually was and let up on twisting it too early, only to have it come right back and skewer her hands.

Thankfully, Genos came in and saved her from that pinch, then held the monster at bay long enough for Tatsumaki to finish saving the strike team so she could give the monster her undivided attention.

Which is a very tame way of saying that that was an incredible development in capability. That some of the fandom had trouble accepting (they suck). Watching their protests has been an exercise in special pleading. They have no trouble understanding how Murata uses scale...until it came to accepting the size of the explosion resulting from Genos smacking away Psyko-Orochi’s execution beam then it had to be a fisheye lens (visibly incorrect, but who’s talking facts here?). Have had no trouble understanding how Murata portrays escalation... until it came to accepting that Genos is strong then no, somehow the monster had to be weaker. Have had no trouble with the freeze frame language that Murata uses to portray things happening at great speed... until it came to accepting that Genos could move really, really fast. For some people, the new is only welcome when it confirms and validates preconceptions. Anyway, that’s my rant done!

the most unlikely of partnerships and they’re still going despite having taken a hell of a battering since this scene

Guess who’s back?

We’ve also been seeing more heroes come back to the fray. The emergence of the Tower of Doom acted as a clarion call to every hero around and able to move. Metal Bat sneaked out of hospital to come running back. Tank Top Master hitched a ride with Mumen Rider to go to City Z. He intended to stick around and save people, but seeing how much wider scale the fight was, he literally threw himself into battle.

Drive Knight decided he literally had to have a piece of the action, took up a ton of power from the nearest substation and came flying in to intercept a desperately escaping Psyko-Jet... ah, I didn’t say? Yes, the monster turned into a machine to run away once hard-pressed.

And we finally got to see what Blast actually looks like, courtesy of a flashback of Amai Mask’s. He definitely looks the part of a caped superhero and it’s little wonder he’s stuck in the imaginations of so many. But now I’m even more interested in seeing what his deal is and what is he’s like now

The one thing we know for sure will be happening is that Garou will not be denied his destiny. He’s coming. But what else is happening? Ah, that’s all in the air.

Bring on 2021!

#OPM #review #long #2020 #so much has happened #so much still to come #manga #Garou is coming BACK #13th #December #December 13th 2020 #so many incredible developments #Genos coming back far stronger than he's ever been and then hanging tough despite overdoing it #the unquestionable appearance of a meddling godlike entity #the Psykos-Orochi fusion and all its crazy permutations #the massive loss of life in Z-City: such an irony between heroes killing themselves to save a few individuals when mass death is all around #Not mentioned; Saitama Flash and their misadventures with Manako

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gildedmuse · 4 years

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So... I have this bad habit where sometimes, when attempting to summarize the idea for a fic, I go into waaay too much detail.

Like, I don't go as far as to actually wrote the damn thing because, you know, effort and laziness, but... Well, it's a close call. It gets to the point where it's less a summary and more what my friends use to call a Quick Fic. All that's .kissing is the actual dialogue and descriptive narration.

Having said that....

Here is a "summary" of an ZoLaw AU where Law works for Doflamingo...

What happened was, basically, Law got caught by Doflamingo after eating the devil's fruit which eventually allowed him to cure his dieses, thus why he's still alive. Or, at least, isn't dead from lead poisoning. Because let's face it, Doflamingo could have just killed the boy then and there. Sure, he'd have to find the fruit all over again, but better that the deal with this little traitor

Except really it was his brother who had been the traitor. Law is still just a child, and children can be so suspectable to any number of ideas so long as an adult gives them a pat on the head and a treat after.

Which is when Doflamingo realizes that he can just manipulate Law into being another loyal follower. Then eventually - when he's no longer useful - Doffy will have him sacrifice his life for his own immortality. By that point Law will be family, and family never lets Doffy down. Not anymore.

So it's under Doffy's personal tutorage that Law grows up, and as much as he might resit the man who imprisoned Corazon, it's hard not to eventually fall to all Doflamingo's sweet praise and promised. And Law gets what he had wanted all along: a way to get back at the world that willingly watched his home wiped off the official world map and would be happy to see the entire town dead to the very last one. This Law truly earns his title Surgeon of Death, acting as the top officer of Hearts in the Doflamingo crime family. And yet despite his cruelty, he isn't even on the government's wanted list; protected under the Shichibukai's jolly roger.

In the meantime, the Strawhats are still doing their thing right on through Punk Hazard (which they somehow manage to not only live through but actually do more damage and cause twice as much chaos. The biggest difference is that Ceaser and Monet escape and Sanji can't perv out over being in Nami's body). So this time when they roll into Dressrosa it's less "backing up the plan of an ally" and much more "on complete and total accident" and "without a damn clue".

Yeah, basically they're the Grand Line's easiest prey.

But, hey, it works out! Well, no, not really. But Sanji does meet Violet, Luffy meet Sabo and help recover Ace's devil's fruit, and Zoro does get lost and require a magic fairy guide. Plus, hey, since they're not really there for any purpose other than that they happened to be passing by, it's not like they can't pull a dine and dash. They may be unprepared, but The Monster Trio can still keep up the fight until everyone is back on the Sunny.

A perfect escape!

Except no.

Because Luffy isn't totally ready to leave, not when he wants to know more about what Sabo is doing and help his new friend Rebecca. Not that they have time to debate the merits of staying or pulling a tactical retreat since at that poing Big Momma is on their ass. And that scary dude in the long black coat is still somehow following them, teleporting himself through the fucking air like wtf why is this happening now!? Nami is forced to make an executive decision: they're can't stay. Also, oh God oh God they're trapped and they're going to be killed and oh God.

It's moments like these you're almost thankful one of your crew members is a total maniac. Because in the middle of all this mess, Zoro just smirks, tells Nami to just concentrate on getting away from that annoying ass ship, he's got their other attacker covered. Which only makes everyone freaks out MORE because what is Zoro thinking: he'll be killed! ("Not immediately, of course. First they'll likely torture him for information, perhaps even kill him as slowly as possible." / "What? Why would you say that? That is not SUPER helpful to hear right then!") The Sunny goes into an all out panic attack. Everyone is yelling or crying or both.

Except Luffy.

Luffy who looks at Zoro, at the singing ship, at the dark power user trying to slash their ship apart, at the shore line of this island and the way it radiates a fake happiness covering Rebecca's very real pain. Luffy who just lowers his hat over his eyes and gives the nod.

Zoro smiles, and is immediately almost clobbered by a giant Chopper. What is Luffy saying? Don't they realize that is the same guy who almost took down Sanji, Zoro AND Luffy only moments ago? Zoro can't fight him alone! Sanji, more calm than the rest, lights a cigarette while explaining that he's not trying to stop Zoro from getting himself killed or anything, but Chopper is right. That guy was incredibly tough, and there's no way Zoro can do it alone ("Shut up dartbrow! You don't know what the hell you're talking about! I could take him down with just the two swords! With one hand behind my back!" / "He already kicked your ass once, Marimo! Or have you forgotten because of all the head trauma!?" / "The only reason he kicked OUR asses is because YOU kept getting in my way you damn weak-ass cook!" / "WHAT DID YOU CALL ME, IDIOT MARIMO!?") Franky tries to regulate the fight but he's busy blocking those deadly aimed slashes from hitting his poor ship while Brook and Kin'emon work on stopping the incoming cannon balls. Either way they're going to have to do something SUPER fast if they want to get out of here. Yeah, Luffy, we need an actual plan. We can't just send Zoro out to-

"Zoro", Luffy says and despite everything going on around them the deck of the Sunny goes really quiet. They all know that tone. "Zoro, I need you to take care of this until we can get back. I still need to kick Mingo's ass for a friend."

At the sound of his captain's no nonsense voice, Zoro is suddenly easily able to stand, shrugging off the pile of people trying to stop him from jumping to his death (and by pile of people I do mean the coward trio and Sanji, who is mostly just trying to get in a few kicks). He draws Wado, clutching the katana in his teeth and yet still somehow manages what you know is a smirk. It's a promise.

And like that, Zoro is launching himself right into the blue sphere of the battle.

A battle against one of Doflamingo's top officers. A devil's fruit user with a twisted heart and home field advantage. Needless to say, it does not end well for our hero.

—🧡—

Although, Law has to give his rival swordsman some credit. He has his share of fun toying with the boy, and despite never standing any real chance of victory Law can admit the strawhat pirate puts up a better fight than most. Far better than Law had been expecting from some one so new to the New World (supposedly he got Mihawk to agree to train him, but Law has met the Hawk Eye and finds the idea utterly absurd). Then there is the way his smile had just an edge of what Law could only call manical delight, even when it became clear he'd long lost. This greenhaired kid really is stupid enough to believe his captain will come back for him. As though he would come charging back into Doflamingo's territory a second time just to retrieve a single crew member. One who was not only crazy enough to sacrifice himself but couldn't even win the fight. At the same time the swordman's loyalty and faith - as misplaced as it is - is kind of... Adorable. Who knew someone could come so far on the Grand Line and still be so innocent?

Law immediately wants to corrupt it.

Thes other family members will whine tell you, Doffy has always had... Let's say... A "soft spot" for Law. He's spoiled that brat for years, is what they mean but don't dare to say. Sure enough, Law barely has to work to talk Doffy around to letting him personally see to the prisoner's arrangements. Doflamingo is a little suspecious at first (he can never truly trust Law, not after the Corazon incident), but he quickly dismisses it. He's had the Heart Officer's loyalty for years now.

Of course, when he sees the spark of interest light in his apprentice as they eye their newest spoils of war, he can't help but tease Law. After all, Zoro is quite an enticing young man and Law isn't the only one there who likes pretty things. They're so fun to destroy which - judging from the way Law shivers when Doffy runs a hand through thick green hair before yanking the boys head back against the wall hard enough to leave the young captive panting and dizzy - is precisely his protege's plan.

(Doflamingo also happens to know Zoro almost definitely had trained under Mihawk, and he would love to see his fellow warlord's eyes flash with barely contained anger when he learns how Doflamingo has broken his favorite toy. It's not his fault - Mihawk is always so uptight and repressed, it makes agonizing him too much fun for Doflamingo to resist.)

In the end, though, he knows when Law's determination is set. And for whatever reason the boy has decided he absolutely has to be the one to keep their guest "comfortable" while his captain makes up his mind on what he'll do. So Doflamingo only teases for a bit - touches a little, plays with the barely conscious boy kneeling at his feet, enjoys the way Zoro still has enough spirit left to try taking bite when Doffy's fingers trail to close to his bloody lips (oh, and, what a joy! Law nearly growls at the prospect of not being the one to ruin the boy!) - but eventually he stops his little game. He gives in, telling Law to have fun with his treasure. He is the one who took him down after all. It is only fair he keeps him.

Just try not to completely break the poor thing, not until Strawhat returns for him.

Law snorts at the very idea. This is hardly the first time they'd done this. He's never seen a single captain try and retrieve their stolen property (he has of course, but he doesn't remember them). He doesn't see why Strawhat-ya would be particularly special.

Before Doflamingo can come up with a clever, vague answer about Law trusting him, Zoro suddenly gives a bark of laughter that would have scared lesser men senseless. It only serves to draw the two men's interest back to their little pet.

Luffy won't come back for him, Zoro confirms, much to Law's surprise (he personally never thought Strawhat-ya would, but then why would the swordsman sacrifice himself so willingly for a man he has so little faith in?) and has Doflamingo raising an eyebrow in.... Interest. Zoro looks at both of them with no fear, like he hadn't taken a humiliating defeat and is even now bloody and chained up, helplessly listening in on these two infamous pirates talk about him like he is a mere object. Actually, if anything, he appears to be wearing a smirk under all that blood. Because he knows something they don't.

Luffy won't come back for him, because his captain knows Zoro doesn't need to be rescued.

To Law, this makes Zoro look like an even sweeter treat. Doflamingo is simply amused, remarking that perhaps their little pup has yet to realize the leash around his neck is shaped like a noose.

Zoro meets his gaze, steady yet daring. He promised Luffy that he'd take care of it, and so that is what he will do. He'll never go back on his word, especially when it comes to his captain. Something Doflamingo with his distrusting and fear-toed crew couldn't understand. So see, their plan to use Zoro as bait will never work, because Zoro swore to Luffy that he'd be take care of it. So he will. Luffy has enough faith in Zoro that he'd never believe anything less and would never turn around out of doing to try and mount a rescue.

No, when Luffy comes back it will be for the sole purpose of kicking Doflamingo's ass.

The mood darkens. In a flash, Doflamingo is in back in front of him, yanking Zoro forward by the chin. He squeezes hard enough to bruise. You can hear the cracking of bone as he explains to Zoro exactly how precarious his current position is only to grow second by second more frustrate by Zoro's completely lack of fear. So he squeezes harder. He slams the boys head back into the wall and starts smiling when he gets a since from the stoic swordsman.

Before he can do any real damage Law steps in, reminding Doffy that he promised him he could have the boy. And just like that, Doflamingo's whole mood appears to shift back to calm. He puts on his fake smile and let's Zoro go, even pets the boy's hair. Of course, he had promised. And he, too, is a man of his word. Something Zoro will surely learn in time now that he is one of them.

Zoro, now with blurred vision and the taste of fresh blood on his tongue, is smart enough not to answer. But not smart enough to lower his head or try and appear humbled. Lucky for him, Doflamingo decides the boy isn't worth it. When he turns around he notes the hungry way Law is eyeing the kneeling prisoner behind him. Which brings a crueller, yet more genuine, smile to Doffy's featurss. The Strawhats vice captain may act invincible now, but he's never faced Doflamingo's own Surgeon Of Death. As disinterested and put off as Law might usually act, the boy can be dangerously twisted. He's sure his top officer will break the young pirate down bit by bit - both literally and figuratively - long before his captain can come running back in to try and find him (and Doflamingo is sure Strawhat will, no matter what Zoro might think).

He leaves with one last reminder to Law not to completely shatter the infamous Pirate Hunter. No, Doffy would hate to see their newest family member treated so poorly, especially seeing as he has much bigger plans in store for the young Mr. Roronoa. Specifically, he wants to see the face of Monkey D Luffy when he watches as the last bit of his first mate's spirit broken.

And because Doffy practically raised the boy and knows exactly the right buttons to push, he decides to give Law a little extra motivation to bring Zoro to that point. Just in case that interest turns into something dangerous like longing or - laughable as it is - actual fondness. It's so simple, too: as he walks by he simply whispers how there is nothing like crushing the heart of unrequited love.

It will be such a treat, tearing Zoro from his captain, and watching Luffy realize he's lost his chance to love the other man, wouldn't it Law? What a truly tragic romance. It almost makes you hope the two of them at least had some time together. Law didn't happen to give them a moment along before forcing Zoro to throw himself into the fight, hmm? Just a small, precious second or so for the two to share a final kiss. After all, not even Doffy is so cruel as to deny the poor boys such a tender moment.

Sure enough, Law's eyes immediately narrow and Doflamingo can feel the jealousy rolling off him. Not because Law gives a damn for their prisoner's feelings - Doflamingo raised him better than that - but he always has had a possessive streak. Having taken an interest in the swordsman, he will hate the thought that the boy might even think of another or that Law won't be the first to possess him in ever possible way.

Doffy leaves with a cruel, deep laugh. He can't wait until dinner, when he may just happen to remember the rumours about his "friend" Mihawk and his taking a young green-haired boy under this wing and in to his bed. By tomorrow he suspects every part of Zoro's body will bare at least some mark that he now firmly belongs to no one but Trafalgar Law.

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thebibliomancer · 3 years

Text

Essential Avengers: King-Size Annual Avengers #11: In Honor’s Name!

August, 1982

“Why do the AVENGERS battle the Defenders?”

I dunno, man. Is it Tuesday again?

“And who is the mystery woman Nebulon has fallen for?”

Nebulona? She’s clearly just him but a woman.

Oh, hey Beast. So this is where you got to after quitting the Avengers.

Soooo.... Annuals, amirite? Pain in my butt. I actually forgot to cover this one and #12 is going to be somewhat plot relevant soon so I’ll shove this in wherever.

Its a blast from the past of the previous year. Back when the Avengers were fantastic but only numbered four: Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and Wasp.

And the Defenders seem to number many so this isn’t a very fair fight at all.

This issue starts with a PRELUDE

(J. M. DeMatteis again? Is this going to be weird?)

Nebulon the Celestial Man and damn fine dresser fades onto a hilltop shaking his fist and yelling that someone can’t do something to him.

Nebulon is mostly a Defenders villain and the major thing I know about him is that he’s supposedly exceptionally handsome but the handsomeness is a ruse and that the Squadron Sinister stopped helping him destroy the world once because they discovered he wasn’t as handsome as he was letting on.

Goes to show where their priorities lie. Also, the experience was so jarring that the evil Nighthawk decided to join the Defenders much to their chagrin.

So basically I know nothing about Nebulon. Hi, Nebulon.

An angry yelly fish head with the Rocky Horror Picture Show lips inside its fish lips shows up (I think this is what Nebulon realy looks like) and tells Nebulon that his punishment for constantly dicking with Earth is to be stranded on Earth with his powers reduced to half and stuck in his handsome-to-some-but-grotesque-to-fish body.

Okay. That clears things up.

Although I wish all of space would stop using Earth as their place to dump stuff or exile people. Its bad enough when Asgard does it. Its worse enough when there’s a whole crossover about all of space deciding to make Earth its supermax jail. And its a medium amount enough here.

But apparently the shouty fish people have a Prime Directive and Nebulon keeps breaking it, specifically on Earth. But a Prime Directive that also lets them dump troublemakers on planets where they’ve been troublemaking.

Nebulon tries to defend himself that, hey, Earth makes you do crazy stuff. But the yell fish is hearing nothing of it and just tells Nebulon to kill himself if he doesn’t want to be on Earth so bad.

... Eesh.

In his rage at being stranded on Earth, Nebulon teleports inside the Sanctum Sanctorum and starts yelling at Wong.

Wong tells him, dude, Dr Strange isn’t even here. So Nebulon starts beating up Wong.

How dare you, sir. Wong is a great guy!

Nebulon: “Then Wong shall die -- just as your master shall soon die -- and his accursed Defenders with him! They shall all pay for bringing this tragedy down on my head! For, if they had not risen up to thwart me. If they -- if they... Listen to me. Listen to the words of -- a fool! Forgive me, Wong! Neither you, Strange, nor the Defenders are responsible! The blame belongs solely to -- NEBULON!”

And then he teleports away, no doubt leaving Wong very confused.

CHAPTER 1: IN HONOR’S NAME!

Later, Thor flies over the Himalaya mountains and over the chapter title.

He has come for some peace and quiet sitting on a mountain away from the bustle of mortals but what does he find but someone already in his thinking spot!

Thor lands to see who would be sitting on a mountain with no pants on and its Nebulon, of course.

But I have to say. He’s sitting and hugging his knees. That’s advanced brood. That’s, in fact, verging on pout.

Although lets not let the fact that Thor flies out to the Himalayas to be alone sometimes slip on by uncommented.

Thor asks what brings the guy out here and Nebulon has a dramatic exile speech ready to go.

Nebulon: “For hours now I have sat, lost in thought, pondering that very question! What is it that brings any creature to the depths of despair, the edge of doom, but... himself?”

And since he senses a kindred spirit in Thor, one who is as different from the Earthly masses as Nebulon is, he unloads his full story onto Thor’s ears.

Upon hearing all about this dude who tried to take over or sell the world multiple times, Thor is like ‘this guy has got to meet the Avengers!’

Nebulon thinks Avengers sounds like Defenders and he’s not into that but Thor says that the Avengers are way cooler than the Defenders.

(Ooooh, shots fired, Thor)

Thor: “No, my friend -- there are none in all creation to compare with the Avengers! A hardier band of warriors hath ne’er been assembled! Where else could a god walk among mortals and find -- his equals?”

If Nebulon has truly repented of his past deeds, the Avengers will help him make a home on Earth.

And with a manly armclasp, like the one from Predator, Nebulon accepts and Thor takes him AWAY!

While the person who looks like Nebulon but a woman and with better boots watches them go and disappears in a bright flash of light.

CHAPTER 2

Yes, already.

“Avengers Mansion... Over the years, many fantastic beings have walked through the doors of this august Manhattan townhouse: Gods, mutants, androids... even a were-woman. But, of all these unique individuals, few -- if any -- have been more honored, more respected... More willing to serve the cause of freedom, wherever the place, whenever the time.. than the living legend whose only powers are his wits, his daring, and his years of hard-won skill... Captain America!”

And we see Cap leaping and gamboling about the exercise room, exercising.

Cap: “Ah -- there’s nothing like a good workout to make a man feel truly alive! It might pay to run through it once more, though --- my timing was a hair off on the parallel bars!”

Wasp comes in to... well, its Wasp. She comes to eye the eye candy and flirt a little, in a friendly fashion.

Wasp: “I see you’re here early for our meeting -- as usual! Don’t you ever slow down?”

Cap: “I seem to remember catching a few winks back in 1942 or so!”

Wasp: “Why, Cap -- that was two jokes in a row! I didn’t think you had it in you!”

Cap: “Oh, come on, Jan -- I’m not really that serious a guy, am I?”

Wasp: “I was just kidding, handsome.”

Cap: “Oh.”

Heh.

So, Thor called a super special emergency meeting of the Avengers to introduce his cool new friend.

Iron Man (secretly Tony Stark, true believers) is a little tense about the meeting because he had to cancel three business conferences, an address to foreign stockholders, and two dates.

Geez, for one meeting? You ever consider your calendar is way too packed, Tony?

Thor arrives with his cool, new pal and introduces the Avengers to NEBULON -- THE CELESTIAL MAN!

And Iron Man lunges out of his chair to get into better pointing distance.

Thor: “What irks thee, comrade? Why art thou so angered?”

Iron Man: “What irks me, Thor? He does! Haven’t you ever bothered to study our computer-file on alien threats? Your ‘newfound ally’ almost totalled the Earth -- several times!”

Nebulon: “Don’t you see, Thor? They react as I predicted they would!”

Also, geez. I know Tony is frustrated about all the schedule juggling he’s had to do but in this and the Black Knight two-parter he’s a lot ruder to Thor than you’d expect considering how close they are.

Some writers just don’t get the Avengers, I guess.

Cap and Wasp try to get Iron Man to calm down.

Wasp: “I’m sure there’s a darn good reason why Thor brought Nebulon here -- isn’t there?”

She’s downright staring daggers at him when she asks that.

We’ve jumped back in time a little from where I was covering but Jan is still the chairperson of the Avengers. It happened right when she returned from her divorce related hiatus and this four person group has to take place post-Tigra leaving and pre-membership drive.

So, she’s the boss and she just gave angry boss eyes at Thor. And Thor did his default squinting always-looks-pissed look back at her.

Thor tells Nebulon’s whole sad story off-panel.

And damn if it doesn’t hit the Avengers right where they live.

Wasp tells him that they all know what it means to lose something precious “whether it’s an entire world... or the love of one person -- it makes no difference! It hurts to suddenly find yourself -- alone!”

And Captain America sympathizes because when he was defrosted after twenty years, it was like a strange new world!

They’re both on team ‘give Nebulon a chance!’

Iron Man is more reluctant but decides to give Nebulon one chance.

Then the Defenders bust in.

Beast, Valkyrie, Silver Surfer, and Gargoyle who is not Etrigan at all.

And they’re here to kick Nebulon’s ass. Which is entirely fair considering that they’ve been the ones who keep having to stop Nebulon’s planschemes.

Since the Avengers seem to not be beating up Nebulon, obviously they’ve all been mind controlled. Nebulon is clearly planning to blow up half the Earth and use the Avengers to control the rest.

Cap: ‘what’

Silver Surfer: ‘HE’S MAKING A HOSTILE MOVE!’

And then Silver Surfer blasts the floor, sending all of the Avengers sprawling every which way.

MEANWHILE, IN SPACE

There’s a huge spaceship, in space. And within the huge spaceship in space, the lady who looks like a lady Nebulon watches the fight on a screen and cries.

Hey, I get it. Doing the Avengers vs Defenders Again But Worse makes me sad too.

CHAPTER 3

See, that’s more of the length for a chapter. You could learn something from chapter 2, chapter 1.

Anyway, the clock winds back a little for the Defender’s side of the story.

Valkyrie returns to the Sanctum Sanctorum in a good mood and also on a flying horse.

For a long while, Valkyrie’s status quo is that she was inhabiting the body of Barbara Norris, a woman that Dr Strange accidentally drove insane. But she’s gotten her original Asgardian body back so she’s stronger than ever and also not bodyjacking someone else.

She flies into the window, alarming Gargoyle, Beast, and Wong.

Gargoyle tearfully flies up and hugs Valkyrie saying that he thought she was leaving for Asgard forever.

Hey, um, who dis?

-wiki- Ok so he’s an elderly man who was trapped in a gargoyle body by some demons who he broke an agreement with. Cool, cool, cool. I would have guessed much younger based on how he acts here.

Valkyrie also smooshes Beast’s hand when he gives her a handshake hello, because she’s much buffer than she was when she left. Also, she talks more like Thor.

Valkyrie: “I am, at long last, the true Valkyrie! What more need be said?”

Then the Lady Nebulon teleports in and introduces herself as Supernalia. She tells the Defenders that she’s here to save the world from the evil of NEBULON!

Beast doesn’t recognize the name but Valkyrie definitely does. What with all the existing history that I keep alluding to.

Supernalia: “Indeed! I am a bounty hunter from Nebulon’s homeworld come to bring him to justice! He has fled to your Earth, taking sanctuary among the so-called Avengers! Using celestial mind control, he has usurped their will, and -- after decimating part of your world with four pre-set anti-matter bombs -- he plans to use the Avengers to take control of the surviving population!”

Beast goes ‘uh cool story but i’mma verify this real quick by ringing them up’

But then he remembers he already did do that and they were very rude to him!

He remembers this interaction very clearly even though it didn’t happen at all.

Ironically, the Defenders are the ones who are being mind-controlled into accusing other people of being mind-controlled. Yes, I’m pretty sure that’s irony.

Wong suddenly remembers that Nebulon rushed in the previous night but he can’t remember how that interaction actually went.

AH HAH, decides Beast. Clearly proof that Nebulon mind-controlled Wong. Lets go half-cocked everyone.

No, no. Beast decides they’ll need more than just the three of them and wonders who they should call to bolster their numbers to a whole four Defenders. Dr Strange is busy chasing Daimon Hellstrom and Namor soooo...

Valkyrie suggests Silver Surfer because he kicks ass but they have no way to get in contact with him.

Supernalia goes hey allow me.

Supernalia: “Although my planet’s laws forbid direct involvement with alien cultures -- and thus my need of you Defenders -- I can help!”

And she baps Valkyrie in the forehead and instantly transmissions Silver Surfer right to the Sanctum to his existential annoyance.

Silver Surfer: What force has swept me halfway ‘round the world? Who toys with -- the Silver Surfer?”

Valkyrie explains off-panel because this is very much “let me explain! No, there is too much. Let me sum up” kind of day.

CHAPTER 4

We cut back to right after the Silver Surfer knocked everyone on their ass with a warning shot.

Thor: “Surfer -- art thou mad?! Thy ‘warning’ came close to slaying us all!”

Thor gets up to kick Norrin’s rad ass but Valkyrie grabs his arm. She tries to convince him to trust her that Nebulon is controlling the Avengers. She appeals to their shared history, their shared love.

Thor: “Brunnhilde -- thou art truly the one blinded... by thine own prejudice! Because, once, Nebulon stood as thine enemy -- thou takest him for that again!”

Valkyrie: “Thunderer -- once I loved thee -- but now I see -- that thou art -- A FOOL!”

Then she just up and tosses him.

It’s pretty great.

Thor just rights himself midtoss by helicoptering his hammer and tells Valkyrie that she’s the fool. And also that because she fucking threw him, now he knows that its her group that are under some kind of control.

Nebulon starts yelling too because he’s not going to sit by while other people fight his battle so he’s like ‘come on if you’re hard enough, dickfenders’ and Beast is like ‘ok.’

Wasp, team leader, thinks Thor is onto something re: the Defenders being against some kind of influence and asks Iron Man to create a distraction so the Avengers can skedaddle.

Iron Man has the perfect distraction and fires the UNIBEEEEAM. At his own roof, collapsing it on the Defenders.

Iron Man: “Wait till Tony gets the bill for this!”

... so depending on the time frame, either only Nebulon or both him and Wasp are the only ones who don’t know Iron Man is Tony so who are you putting on a show for, Tony?

Or maybe you’re just so used to grousing about the Avengers breaking your shit that you do it even when you do it.

Anyway, since Thor has a hunch that the Defenders are being controlled, he decides that the best thing is to teleport somewhere safe and make a plan.

So Nebulon teleports himself and the Avengers to the Himalayas where he and Thor first met.

The effort nearly kills Nebulon, since his powers have been curtailed by the yell fish. But now they have some space.

Wasp: “And don’t think we don’t appreciate it, Nebulon! But couldn’t you have zapped us to a more temperate climate -- like the Bahamas... or the French Riviera? It mean, it’s COLD here!”

Cap hopes that the Defenders won’t find them somewhere so remote and isolated but Thor, whose idea this was by the by, isn’t so sure because they don’t know who is pulling the strings.

Iron Man: “Good point! Are we dealing with one of our old foes -- one of the Defenders’ -- or perhaps someone out for Nebulon’s head! Let’s face it: we’ve got a wide field to choose from!”

Annnnnnd thennnnn, the Defenders just show up anyway so trying to get some breathing room was a waste of Nebulon’s efforts.

Beast: “Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Jan! You’re all my friends... more than that -- you’re family! So why won’t you believe me when I tell you that this nut’s gonna wipe the whole planet out in a matter of hours! Please -- hand him over or --.”

Nebulon: “Or... NOTHING!”

Then he shoots an energy blast at the Defenders.

Which sadly arcs to the ground with a SHOOOM! and does little more than splash some snow on the Defenders.

But awwww, Beast considers the Avengers family! Shame that once the X-Men pull him back into their orbit, he only hangs out with them and decides never to ask the Avengers for help, either when Professor X gets shot by Stryfe or when trying to solve the Legacy Virus.

I think that social group is a bad influence on Beast. He never broke time or pretended to be gay to dunk on his ex when he was an Avenger. He just got high, practiced polyamory, and yukked it up with his bffsie Wonder Man.

Anyway, Silver Surfer gets up and disses Nebulon for his sad laser blast.

Silver Surfer: “Like all who seek conquest, Nebulon -- you refuse to recognize truth! You alter reality to serve your own malefic ends! But the power you no wield, tyrant, is as nothing compared to that which you once had! You are weak -- as Supernalia said you would be!”

Nebulon is aghast to hear that Supernalia is the one behind all of this. And also aghast when Gargoyle shoots a bio-mystic bolt at him.

Apparently, Gargoyle can shoot bio-mystic bolts. Are there mystic bolts that are not bio? Shrug.

CHAPTER 5

Hey, some of these chapter divisions feel arbitrary. We go from the fight to the fight. At least some other chapter divisions had scene or temporal shifts.

Cap begs the Defenders to fight off Supernalia’s influence. Or the Avengers will fight off Supernalia’s influence for them. Probably via punches.

For whatever reason, this makes Valkyrie go stickycaps.

Valkyrie: “The hour of Earth’s doom draws ever closer -- and, to prevent that doom, we will do whate’er we must! wHaTeVeR wE mUsT!”

Mystifying.

Anyway, with both sides thinking the other side are dumb easily mind-controlled doodoo heads, they both get to the slugfest that neither side wants but thinks there’s no other way to reach the other side but by punching some sense into them.

This panel feels like a microcosm of a lot of Marvel events.

And as this goes on Nebulon just watches the fight with calculating eyes.

I’m sure that’s fine.

Thor and Valkyrie continue sparring verbally, as well as with punches. Valkyrie asks how Thor can let Midgard be destroyed when they both love it so much. And Thor is like ‘for the last time, there’s no danger except from your mysterious new golden pal’

Meanwhile, the Defender’s mysterious new golden pal Supernalia is monitoring the fight from her spaceship. And monitoring the Defenders’ brainwaves.

Thor is actually making Valkyrie doubt. And Supernalia can’t have that.

Supernalia: “I cannot afford to lose control of the Defenders now! For honor’s sake, their rage must grow! And more -- they must retain a psychological surety that cannot be breached! In Valkyrie’s case, the introduction of something... familiar -- something to increase her confidence -- would seem appropriate!”

So Supernalia teleports Valkyrie’s sweet flying horse Aragorn to just. Appear on the Himalayas. Between Valkyrie and Thor.

Valkyrie doesn’t know how her horse suddenly appeared but she’s not going to look a gift teleporting winged horse in the mouth. She jumps on his back and takes to the air.

Thor gets pissed and hammerflings himself after her.

While Thor is chasing Valkyrie around the sky, Iron Man squares up with Silver Surfer.

Silver Surfer tells Iron Man that “you see to halt one who has outraced comets! Soared faster than light itself!” and basically that he rules, Iron Man sucks. And then to prove it, he blasts Iron Man with the power cosmic.

Just that one attack nearly tore Iron Man apart and he’s pretty sure that Silver Surfer was holding back. Oof, that’s some power gap.

BUT MAYBE just maybe if Iron Man puts all of his might into one staggering punch...

It’ll do jack shit to the Surfer.

Well, damn.

Gargoyle fights Wasp but says its not proper for a man to fight a lady. Wasp points out ‘hey you’re fighting me anyway so maybe someone is making you do it.’

Gargoyle: ‘.... NUH UH’

Cool. Good talk.

Supernalia: “This Gargoyle is too... soft! His mind accepts -- but his heart rebels! These beings are not like us! Their minds are filled with too many questions! Their souls overflow with conflicting emotions!”

I can’t believe humans (and Asgardians) have too many feelings and emotions to be easily controlled.

Well, I can believe. It really checks out.

So Supernalia increases the celestial mindwaves to shore up her control, even if it means burning out the Defenders.

Rude.

Thor blasts Valkyrie off of Aragorn with lightning and then catches her, saying he won’t let her fall. So, reasonably enough, Valkyrie elbows him in the face for treating her like a damsel.

They both fall toward the ground. Aragorn catches Valkyrie and Thor catches... a cosmic bolt from Silver Surfer.

You had one job, Iron Man.

And that job was to sneak up on Silver Surfer while he’s self-flagellating for doing a shameful opportunistic attack on Thor.

Iron Man uses those... hip... power pod... things. To zap Silver Surfer’s temples and siphon off some of his power.

And with that power, Iron Man tips a chunk of the mountain on top of Silver Surfer.

This doesn’t keep the Surfer down for long. Despite the fact that trying to contain the incredible surfing energies he absorbed threatens to damage his armor, Iron Man absorbs more when Silver Surfer blasts him, to try to turn the energy back at the Surfer.

Instead, they both explode.

Double KO.

Elsewhere in the fight, Gargoyle blasts Wasp with his bio-mystic bolts, knocking her into the snow.

Gargoyle panics because his bio-mystic bolts are supposed to drain off a fraction of a person’s life-force, not up and kill them.

So Gargoyle shouldn’t have been surprised when Wasp pops back up and zaps him in the chin. And Wasp shouldn’t have been surprised when Gargoyle zaps her back.

She passes out. But so does Gargoyle, to his confusion. His hide should be tough enough to take a truckload of punishment, yet he suddenly feels so weak.

I mean. Wasp is strong enough to blow up a house with her own zaps. But this is probably intended to be Supernalia’s mind control burning him out.

I choose to believe that its Wasp’s cool house-blowing-up might. She’s kicked bigger ass than Gargoyle.

Wasp’s defeat scream momentarily distracts Cap from where he’s fisticuffsing with Beast.

Beast: “Holy cow! I hope she’s not badly hurt!”

Cap: “You hope she’s not -- ?! You can still say that after all you’ve done today? After all the pain this Supernalia has driven the Defenders to cause?”

Beast: “We’ve caused? You’re the ones harboring the lunatic with the anti-matter bombs --.”

There’s no guilt-tripping some people.

Cap throws his mighty shield but Beast must not have heard the song because he not only doesn’t yield, he also catches the shield with his feets.

Then he sleds on it down a snowy incline and tackles Cap.

Beast: “It’s time we quit all this clowning around!”

Cap: “That’s right, Hank! This is serious business -- so hit me! Hit me, blast you! HIT ME!”

Beast: “Hey! wHaT tHe HeCk Am I dOiNg?”

Cap: “Coming to your senses, I hope!”

Beast realizes that Cap dropped his guard and let Beast beat the shit out of him on purpose, let Beast almost kill him.

Cap: “You’re no killer, Hank! And no force, however great, could make you kill! I counted on that fact to snap you out of it!”

Wow, good going, Cap!

Out of everyone here, you’re the only one who successfully snapped anyone out of anything. Although I think Wasp coulda if she had played possum and let Gargoyle think he killed her instead of popping up to zap him.

But Cap has insight into Hank. That probably helped.

Me and Jan know jack about Gargolye.

CHAPTER 6

With exactly two people conscious but not fighting anymore, Nebulon is like ‘hah eat shit Supernalia’

So Supernalia appears.

Beast feels like he’s about to keel over even though he beat the shit out of Cap and Cap feels weaker too. They blame Supernalia because its very easy to blame someone whose fault everything is.

But Supernalia blames Nebulon.

Nebulon slams a drama bomb in response.

Nebulon: “Do not seek to reclaim the upper hand with more lies, Supernalia! Such sophistry is unbecoming in... my wife!”

I heard that in Borat voice and I hate myself a little.

But now that Supernalia’s relation to Nebulon has been established, Nebulon is like ‘but why are you trying to ruin my exile?’

Supernalia: “You were convicted of high crimes, my husband -- and the sentence was a choice of honorable death by your own hand... or ignominious exile! In 500 generations, none of our people have ever chosen exile! All have proudly faced extinction! But you, lacking courage, brought shame upon your wife and children!”

HE HAS KIDS??

Anyway, she came to Earth to just. Kinda. Kill him. To restore honor to their family.

But when she got there, she found that he had already made friends and decided well I need some pawns of my own. So I can kill him.

Nebulon isn’t really impressed because in his one day as an exile, he’s had some epiphanies.

Nebulon: “Unlike you, I have traveled far across this universe! I have learned to see in new ways! Our concepts of honor are archaic! Our laws are cruel! I now dare to dream higher dreams, for I have learned what it means to have -- friends!”

Supernalia: “I have been your friend... and much more! Since our childhood betrothal have I stood by you -- despite your constant avoidance of responsibilities! Despite your failure to achieve glory or rank!”

Oof, imagine if your childhood friend and spouse told you that being exiled on Earth taught him what friendship really means.

I have to imagine that Cap and Beast are just listening to this like ‘god why do cosmic people always have to dump their relationship baggage on Earth?’

Supernalia then tries to tell Beast and Cap that Actually Nebulon is up to no good.

Beast is like yeah nice try.

But this time Supernalia has actual proof evidence.

She dispels the invisibility cloak hiding the Ennui Device that Nebulon left on a prior trip to Earth and is now using to drain energy from the Avengers and Defenders to beef himself up.

Now, Cap and Beast turn to Nebulon like ‘but buddy, why?’ and also to punch him a little bit, in a friendly manner.

Nebulon: “I did what I had to -- to survive! Believe me -- I truly wanted the friendship you offered -- but observing the unfolding battle, I realized I could never find peace on this or any world -- without the POWER!”

And this rude boy who doesn’t understand what friendship means punches both Cap and Beast.

Beast sprawls right at Supernalia’s feet completely burned out and goes hey feel like stepping in??

Supernalia: “I can do nothing directly, Beast. I am not permitted to interfere!”

Beast: “You... stupid... self-deluding... idiots! Don’t you understand that all this has happened... because you already have... interfered?!?!”

Supernalia: “So I have!”

And since now she’s done the big bad transgress of the Prime Directive, she decides that unlike her shitbird husband, she’s going to do the honorable thing and kill herself.

I. Have no words. At this entire exchange.

Its too much.

Nebulon is distraught so slaps the gun out of her hand and begs her to instead of killing herself, not do that. She could stay on Earth and rule at his side!

This latest bout of cosmic interpersonal drama gives Cap the opportunity to muster his strength and throw his mighty shield.

It deflects the ray emitter of the Ennui Device so it hits Nebulon instead of the Avengerdefenders.

Except, oops, the Ennui Beam was calibrated for “humanoid physio-psycho energies” so instead of draining his energy, the Ennui Beam just straight up starts killing Nebulon.

Amazing how you can stretch vocabulary to encompass humans, Asgardians, mutants, power cosmic imbued Zenn-Lavians, and whatever demonic biz is going on with the Gargoyle.

It sure is amazing how it affects all these different things as intended but its accidentally fatal in a way that will help wrap up the story.

Beast wet noodle jumps to try to redirect the beam and save Nebulon but Supernalia shoves him out of the way and then jumps into the beam herself.

Supernalia: “Thus, I join my husband -- in oblivion!”

Geez, when she sets her mind to killing herself, she sticks with it

.__.

Nebulon agrees that Actually This is the Right and Correct Course for them, I guess because couple counseling is a hassle.

Then the Ennui Device overloads and explodes and Nebulon and Supernalia turn to their true forms of giant weird fish people with Rocky Horror Picture Show lips inside fish lips.

Beast laments that Supernalia didn’t just let him save both of them but she’s like ‘HONORRR’ and then dies.

Thor: “I called Nebulon friend and he decieved me! Yet now -- Thor mourns his passing!”

Silver Surfer: “What manner of beings were they, to cherish honor so much... and value life so little?”

Cap: “Perhaps, Surfer -- not so different from us. Not so different -- at all!”

Okay, shut up your face, Cap.

First off, I don’t think much of an honor code that says its okay to mind control and lie to people and use them as pawns in a way that could kill them but then also goes ‘this is an honorable death’ when you stupid yourself to death.

And neither should you! Don’t put a poetic, poignant spin on things! This whole affair was a weird couples spat that two space weirdos forced you to participate in!

Follow @essential-avengers because I went back and covered an inconsequential annual and now I can’t go back and not do that. I wasted my time for you. Also, like and reblog. I need positive reinforcement. It makes me happy.

#Avengers #Defenders #Nebulon #Supernalia #Thor #Iron Man #Captain America #the Wasp #Beast #Valkyrie #Silver Surfer #Gargoyle #whoever that is #essential marvel liveblogging #essential avengers #this is like when a couple tries to get you to choose sides in a very public fight they're having #its unnecessary and uncomfortable and awkward for everyone

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itsclydebitches · 3 years

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You know, bringing Penny back already had the risk of cheapening her death, but NO ONE having an emotional reaction whatsoever and Pietro being like “Yeah, I guess she did die lol :D” just DESTROYED the weight of her death. Just another reason I felt nothing when she died again.

The lack of reaction to Penny's resurrection will, forever and always, be a black mark on the series for me. I'm not at all surprised that she was brought back given her android status and popularity among the fandom, I can't even fault RT for restoring our original Penny perfectly given the latter (as opposed to getting a "Penny" without her personality and/or memories), but the sheer indifference to her cheating death? Not just that, but treating her return like a joke? Oh haha, silly Penny with her overenthusiastic hugs. I sure missed that bubbly girl back when our enemies manipulated our now murdered friend into killing her and that trauma kick-started the destruction of our school :)

And this trend in the fandom of going, "Just wait"? Penny suffered from it too. Massively. Like we were told to just wait to return to Oscar's mystery shopping trip, or for the reconciliation with Ozpin to start, or, now, for Emerald to undergo an actual redemption arc, the lack of reaction to Penny's return was explained away as shock (and haven't we heard that one before). Ruby will need to grapple with these emotions, it's just that she was so stunned by this turn of events! But, quite obviously, that never happened. Ruby and Penny's relationship fundamentally returned to where it had started, with Penny making comments about how she isn't allowed certain freedoms and Ruby reminding her that she's a real girl despite it all. A death and the trauma of losing a friend? Not a part of their Volume 7-8 dynamic, to the extent that the story throws them a party in the arena where Penny died — and where Yang was framed, and where the Battle of Beacon began — and not a single character has anything to say about that. The meaning that Penny's death carried in Volumes 3-5 was, in short, erased... and then Penny's entire journey of learning that she's always been real is erased too in an effort to kill her off for good. Her human body wasn't included because it was something she strove for (it wasn't), or something the group needed (it wasn't), or because it was a thematic culmination of her journey (quite the opposite), or even because it follows her inspiration (Ironwood's Tin Man would have something to say about that). It exists solely so that Penny could be murdered again, this time for good. The mad scramble to theorize that she's not really dead (again) is telling. Even the most complimentary fans, those who were quite happy with Penny becoming a human and took no issue with her story throughout 7 and 8, recognized that her death was a horrific, meaningless scene that served only to drum up shock value and give Jaune something to angst over.

I'd even go so far as to say her time as the Maiden was meaningless too. Not just in terms of her not actually doing anything with the powers and Winter ending up with them as originally planned — those two points have both been covered extensively — but in regards to the fact that the group didn't react to that either. Our formerly dead friend came back and a short time later is one of the Maidens? Neat! And that's the extent of their emotional investment in Penny's change. Neat, we've got a stronger fighter now. I just answered that ask that referenced Yang and Ren's fight and that's literally Yang's entire thought on the matter: "We have the Maiden." The Maiden is positioned as a useful tool in this war; a checkmark in the "Victories" column when your friend thinks you haven't achieved enough. But doesn't anyone care that the Maiden is Penny? It's particularly strange to me given the six years of fandom discussion surrounding Pyrrha's almost-time as a Maiden too. As someone (quite obviously lol) interested in Ozpin's character, his desire to make Pyrrha the next Fall Maiden is often viewed as one of his worst acts, supposedly taking this poor, defenseless student and manipulating her into accepting a power that will ruin her life. So much of this is conjecture and even more is an erasure of Pyrrha's agency, and the hypocrisy here is on full display when we look to the reaction to Penny's acceptance of the powers instead. No one is worried about how this power is supposedly going to ruin her life. Or drive all her friends away. Or make her a target to be murdered (again) which is precisely what happens. Or turn her into a tool for the evil men around her to abuse — even though Penny is the one who actually has storylines revolving around her agency, from Pietro building her to be Atlas' obedient weapon to Ironwood ordering her back to his side. Yet the characters don't react to this change with any of the horror we might have expected, because these views don't derive solely from fan headcanoning — we've got moments in the text too. Like Jaune convincing himself that Qrow and the others forced Pyrrha into this. Or the knee-jerk reaction to "real" magic and the horrible things it must do to you. Yet Penny walks out of that lab brimming with a foreign magic, something that Ironwood had always planned to pass onto one of this allies, a power that they know has gotten numerous people killed, and our group is just like, "Cool. Penny upgrade." Everything about Penny's Volume 7-8 journey demonstrates a lack of forethought; the authors' inability to connect what they're currently writing to what came before and what will come later. The lack of reaction to her death, the framing plotline going nowhere, a total acceptance of her as the Maiden despite complicated feelings in the past (and we can toss Yang's assumed secret about Raven in here too), the ableist and contradictory message of giving her a human body, dying again just an episode later, doing so in a way that throws Jaune back into the same situation we've seen before... none of it is emotionally fulfilling when set against the rest of RWBY.

And Emerald, as you say, is a crucial part of all that. Emerald is the one who originally orchestrated Penny's murder. We see her love for Cinder pushing her to attack Penny again just hours before she joins the group. Emerald pretends to be Penny in order to get close to Ironwood... and the only thing we get from all this is a quip about how "weird" it feels to do good. Their stories are woven together and the fact that RT doesn't seem to realize that does a huge disservice to them both. The question of, "How does Penny grow after being resurrected post-murder?" and the question of, "What will it take to redeem Emerald?" are irrevocably linked to one another... and yet neither character was given the chance to answer those questions in a fulfilling manner.

#rwby #mymetas

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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 3 years

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RIGHT, she always wants the upper hand. No equals. Good point! So one last question as we are on a roll! Now, if we accept that Dany believes she loves Jon and Jon's feelings for Dany are maybe love, maybe part infatuation/lust and part political. WTF was going on with Jon and Sansa? I felt they kinda had that "love triangle framing" but the show never committed to it. Was it just a mistake and bad audience interpretation? Some days I'm convinced the show hints at it and other days I don't know.

Lol absolutely, my friend! Oooo, yes I would love to dig into this with you. I’m warning you that possibly another 100 page paper may be headed your way. ;-)

Jon & Sansa - the would they/wouldn’t they pair. It’s a loaded question with an even more loaded answer but I will try my best.

They definitely were going for a love triangle. There was no mistake, I don’t think, or even bad audience interpretation or any shippers wearing shipping goggles for the triangle or either of those pairings. I think it was all very intentional and we picked up on it because of them doing it intentionally.

Like you mentioned, the framing, the promos, the cast interviews, the story, the 8x06 script confirming Sansa loves Jon and Jon knows it, hell even the editing -- all of it lead up to exactly what we saw playing out on screen. And I believe they did this for one reason & one reason only (sadly): to be a contributing factor to Dany’s fall. To cause Dany paranoia not only because of her feelings for Jon, but also as a political opponent (& rival queen, like that tense moment in 8x04 where Dany makes sure to say “under their rightful queen” at Sansa and Sansa’s chin lift). I personally didn’t care for this portion of the story they chose to tell in that last season (and I know a lot of people like to say “Jon and Sansa as a ship is weird, they’re siblings, even the show said they only love each other like siblings” to which I say “its GoT for crying out loud, the Starks have married cousins before, Jon and Sansa were not close growing up & have been separated for years now” & then point to all below, the 8x06 script confirmation of Jon knowing that Sansa loves him, and ask why Sansa was a point of contention for Dany then when it comes to Jon at all if there wasn’t something there, it doesn’t make sense, but I digress). There are so many similarities (maybe not as many as there are differences between them but they’re there) between the two characters. And while I understand Sansa’s suspicion of Dany being an actual tyrant and it’s all in character, I didn’t care for them having two of the strongest female characters on the show essentially fighting over a man when it was about so much more than that for both of them. But alas, that’s what we got.

Before the 8x06 script confirming the love triangle angle they went for, they definitely showed:

Sansa giving heart eyes to Jon in 8x04 (0:08 - x), her jealousy to Dany and Jon’s warm smile exchange & getting up to leave right after that moment

her heartbroken expression in her argument with Jon when asking if he bent the knee to save the North or because he loved Dany in 8x01 (which of course, we never got a textual answer for from Jon himself)

Dany suspecting jealousy in her convo with Sansa in 8x02 with “you know he loves you” “and that bothers you?” and then Dany’s look trying to gauge if that’s the case

Sansa’s “why her?” when watching Dany and the dragons flying above Winterfell & her emotional reaction to Tyrion saying that Jon has told him that he’s not a Stark (which I think had more to do with her being upset that he still thinks this no matter how many times she’s told him otherwise, that she’s losing him, as family & as someone she loves) (2:27 - x)

her expression when saying goodbye to Jon at the dock in 8x06 (2:05 - x, I think this particular part was meant to be multi-layered, he’s her family that she’s losing, she’s in love with him, she couldn’t save him from his fate, she’s sorry that she had to tell his secret and break his trust, she’s sorry that he had to be the one to kill Dany to save them & the world by extension, she regrets that she can’t get him freed or restored as the King in the North, that she couldn’t keep him completely safe, all of it -- not to mention in the script, this is the part where it mentions that Jon knows Sansa loves him but he can’t forgive her for telling her secret and what it led to, which I personally think over time he would have, she’s still his family and he killed his love to keep her safe but moving on)

plus all of Sansa’s hoping for Jon to return & mentions of him in season 7

Littlefinger’s knowing expression (2:37 - x) as Sansa watches Jon depart from Winterfell after he was choked/threatened by him in response to Littlefinger telling Jon that he loves Sansa like he did Cat

It was all meant to set up this love triangle, if you will.

Personally, my feelings on it are complicated because on one hand, I’m glad that it confirmed everything I had been picking up on watching the show, especially from 6x04 and on. On the other hand, I was annoyed because they confirmed Sansa’s feelings but not explicitly textually, and only used them to help further along Dany’s story in the end while making Sansa look like the horrible villain (like they were trying to make her a Littlefinger 2.0), regardless of how her story ended. I remember a lot of people actually hating on Sansa for that decision that she made and I was there holding my hand up going “wait, do you know her character, though? do you not realize she didn’t tell his secret and break his trust to get at Dany or to get back at Jon? that she actually did it to save his life? have you ever seen the movie Gladiator? you can’t kill someone publicly without reason in this universe, not if you’re going to be sitting on an iron chair in this country and are hoping to come across as the savior of the people, the benevolent but strong queen, a secret is much easier to snuff out, folks.” That’s one of the ways I believe Sansa’s characterization got muddled in the end. Everything she did, she did to protect Jon and her family as well as the North, and Arya confirms it in dialogue in 8x01, what Sansa’s true motivations were at the time (not to mention David Nutter’s direction to Sophie for the courtyard scene with Dany “This is your house”) and that’s why Arya stood fast with her. But I’m going off on a tangent, sorry, back to the Jonsa/love triangle framing.

Here’s what I believe on this despite the obvious plot device they turned the love triangle setup into:

For Jonerys, they promo’ed it heavily for the last season, right? There was this:

And of course this:

They had been given a love scene in 7x07

Dany’s costume from 7x06 to 8x03 was meant to indicate that Dany was in love with Jon as reported by Michele Clapton, the (brilliant) costume designer

they even had their own love theme “Truth” that was being played during some, if not most, of their scenes

They were purposely framed:

the shot of them coming out of the cave together in 7x04

them sitting at the table in the great hall together in 8x01 (which they definitely threw Sansa in there as well)

the shot of them closing the door in the boat cabin in 7x07

them standing together talking about the dragonglass in 7x03 with the dragons in the background

them walking back to the castle in 7x05 after Dany returns from battle

them talking privately in the dragonpit 7x07 while waiting for Tyrion

them walking up to the dragons in 8x01

them watching the Dothraki attack the White Walkers in 8x03 from the mountaintop

them framing Tyrion in the middle when the White Walkers arrive at Winterfell in 8x02 (because let’s face it Tyrion will be coming between them in a way in 8x06)

them standing & facing Lyanna’s statue in the crypt in 8x02

them standing at the waterfall in 8x01 and kissing

them on dragons at the same time in 8x03 in battle mode

the whole framing of their warm smile exchange in 8x04 and then them standing together in the bedroom scene in the same episode

them standing together in the destroyed throne room in 8x06

They did all of that to show that this is a couple and a power couple at that, which could possibly turn into a ruling couple. Even at the premiere of the final season, I remember at the time seeing a photo circulating around this site, showing that Sophie, Kit, and Emilia were placed within vicinity of each other when the cast took the stage, and even then it was obvious not only that they were playing up the Jonerys angle but also the love triangle framing (especially with this promo at 1:11 x). They knew they had an audience for that particular angle but in this last season, they brought it to the forefront, just not in the way anyone would expect (in their minds). That’s why they had the cast (namely Kit and Sophie) drumming up PR since season 7 (and possibly earlier), hinting and teasing that there would be so much tension between Jon and Sansa, that there would be a power struggle (wtf? what power struggle? because she questioned a decision of his & it showcased just how different he was from rulers before him like Joffrey & showed us he was a good ruler, one she believes in? sure, Jan, power struggle, sure) and all of that good stuff. Because what did everyone expect to be endgame?

And those who didn’t that maybe thought Jon might be in love with Sansa or vice versa, or even if there was going to be another romance for Jon or Sansa or both:

And the thing D&D and the show kept saying? “Subvert expectations” -- that was their whole goal while trying to tell this story

Personally, I don’t think they ever intended to make either pairing endgame. I believe they wanted people to think one or the other, but I don’t think they ever intended to go further than that (that I’m aware of, I should say). I know there were some rumors that supposedly they had planned for a Jonsa endgame all along, and had even shot scenes for one, but I don’t think they did (if I’m wrong, I would be more than happy to be). And the reason I don’t think they did besides for the love triangle to be a plot device contributing to the end they had in mind for all three characters? The way they ended everyone else’s arcs that did not make a lick of sense. I think Jonsa was heavily foreshadowed as Ned and Cat 2.0 but I think they planned to do it only to bring this to the viewers’ minds in order to make Sansa a romantic and political rival, enough that Dany sees the threat, Jon knows it, and it influences Sansa’s decisions enough that it also affects Jon’s and Dany’s decisions.

As much framing as they did for Jonerys, they also did for Jonsa. The only difference was that it began more almost subtle (though the framing was screaming loudly even back when they were building up their forces to take back Winterfell in season 6), Sansa wasn’t a queen yet, and she didn’t have dragons or a direwolf pack behind her. This is just my personal opinion, but I think Sansa was always meant to play a part in this triangle, like I mentioned Sansa and Dany have many similarities, they also show the contrast between both ladies in Jon’s life as well as how they would rule as queens (while hinting he would be the King half of each relationship):

I don’t remember where this post is (if I find it again, I’ll come back and edit, I want to give them proper credit) but I know I saw it on here somewhere. Roz confirms in season 3 that when Sansa was born, they rang the bells all day in Winterfell. (x) When Dany was born, not only was there a great storm with dogs howling all night (which further proves she is one of the two threats to Westeros like GRRM said) (x) but what was going on while she made the decision to torch KL? They were ringing the bells to surrender (x)

Sansa organizes the defense for Jon (like a Queen Regent would do), handles the Littlefinger situation, and rules the North while the pack makes its way back home so to speak in season 7 all while Jon is away; granted Dany already has her armies, she is already a queen, so she doesn’t need to do any of this and she does go to North to assist Jon in the Great War & save Jon and the guys in 7x06 but she also chooses to burn all of the supplies in the battle with the Lannisters in 7x04, doesn’t really concern herself with the little things like food (I know she has a Council for that but I think they show this contrast purposely to show she’s not really a ruler) and gets annoyed when that is questioned (granted Sansa was a bit snarky here but it was a very good point to make and actually echoes Jon’s own ruling method/concerns from season 5 as Lord Commander)

Sansa brings reinforcements for Jon in 6x09 using her connections so to speak just like Dany shows up to save Jon in 7x06 & brings her forces north in 8x01 to assist in the Great War

Dany is shown ruling in 8x02 when Jaime Lannister arrives but eventually she is outvoted (which is a nice way of putting it lol) by Sansa and Jon who agrees with the logic of getting every person they can get to fight this war - but they also make sure to show that while Dany isn’t listening to Jaime or Tyrion (as her Hand), Sansa listens to Brienne (her sworn sword) and that factors into her decision making, meaning she will weigh everything and not let anger or emotion cloud the issue & she will take things under advisement before so doing

the convo that takes place in 8x02 between Dany and Sansa, when Dany walks into the library, Sansa is seen giving instructions to keep the gates open for more people to come for safety to Royce who gives her respect after, and the bare minimum respect to Dany as he leaves - we also see Sansa thinking of everything outside the Great War box by asking about what happens afterwards and after they defeat Cersei, and then of course we see Dany’s narrow scope of an answer “I take the iron throne” and she has no answer for what after which launches Sansa into steel mode & asking again about the North more strongly

after their convo, we see Sansa and Dany walking in and standing in front of Theon and his men. Theon gives Dany her due respect as their queen but he makes it clear who he is there to address, who he is there to fight for, and gives Sansa her due respect as well. But we also see Sansa’s reaction to Theon pledging to fight for them as we see Dany’s reaction to all of this and her confusion, seeing it’s not duty that Theon is fighting for, but love, love for Sansa & his chosen family -- more importantly, love that Dany doesn’t have which she confirms in 8x04 and 8x05

We see Sansa make the point in the battle planning scene in 8x04 about the men needing to rest, that the generals need to be spoken to. Dany who feels she has waited long enough after she came to fight the Great War alongside Jon doesn’t want to hear this. But it actually is a very good point to make & consider, as we know. Yes, Dany still won in the end, but possibly she wouldn’t have lost Missandei (we can only assume) or Rhaegal or anymore men or wouldn’t have even razed KL to the ground (possibly). But because she didn’t want to wait and it was Sansa who made that point, it’s immediately dismissed.

We see Sansa as someone who would go to war for her family by the dragonpit scene in 8x06 - while she’s in love and they’re threatening the guy she’s in love with who is another member of her family who is being held captive, she is not unleashing fury unless Jon gets hurt which is confirmed by her dialogue to Grey Worm; yes, Dany holds back in 8x04 when Tyrion attempts to compromise with Qyburn & Cersei while they hold Missandei captive & Euron has already killed Rhaegal, she did not attack KL as soon as she landed in Westeros, but the desire to was always there & showed to us in moments throughout the last 2 seasons, never mind all of the hints we were given of what would happen if she came over to Westeros before then

Another contrast is how Dany handles executions vs how Sansa handles them - both are brutal of course and not fun, but how they were conducted says a lot (though they both definitely have in common that they both swing the sword so to speak after they pass the sentence) - Sansa gave Littlefinger his chance to defend himself as he asked though no one would help him, Varys was never given that chance (even if she told him what she would do to him if she discovered him betraying her, which in a way he did look her in the eye first and tell her like she asked but she ignored him and I don’t think that constitutes as a full betrayal, he was never given a trial like setting, only a chance to say his last words, which fun fact that Cersei does the same with Missandei and slightly weirder but I suppose it was weird at the time since Jon was fresh back from the dead, Jon in season 6 with his murderers, though the crimes are: Littlefinger - getting Ned Stark beheaded and starting the Lannister/Stark conflict, Varys - treason, attempt to overthrow a ruler, Missandei - being in the wrong place at the wrong time & for shock value, Night’s Watch murdering squad - murdering Jon so all different I suppose if I’m being fair, but the styles of executions...I’m just saying)

Sorry, I ran off on a tangent there for a minute but I think it all relates to the whole framing of this love triangle and Jonsa itself. Jonsa was definitely going to be a thing, maybe not the way we thought it would, but it was definitely brought to the forefront in season 8. And they purposely hooked us with the framing they gave Jonsa alone as Ned and Cat 2.0. Like Robb, Jon is named King in the North. Instead of the Young Wolf, he is the White Wolf. His costumes and hair styles are meant as callbacks to Ned. Sansa’s own look is meant to be a callback to Cat though she has different hairstyles and different costumes. Her dress in 8x04 at the feast has a scale-like look to it and this is also meant to call back to the Tully side of the family (which is interesting because she’s a Stark through and through yet in this moment, a moment where we see her giving heart eyes to Jon, she is wearing a dress meant to callback to her mother while Jon had just been sitting at the head of the table where Ned would have sat...yep). There were tons of shots framing them as the ruling couple of Winterfell, as Ned and Cat come again:

Oh and this gem in comparison to the hand shot up above for Jonerys:

Not to mention the callbacks in other ways:

Ned choking Littlefinger in season 1 when going to meet Cat in a brothel --> Jon choking Littlefinger in the crypt in 7x02 after the latter admits he’s in love with Sansa, just like her mother

Ned & Cat watching Bran practicing archery in the courtyard before they are interrupted --> Jon (and Sansa with Davos) in 7x02 watching people practicing archery in the courtyard as they discuss Tyrion’s scroll; Jon & Sansa talking in 7x01 above the courtyard when they are interrupted)

This brilliant video shows so many parallels, visually and textually, that show the Ned/Cat & Jon/Sansa callbacks so much better than I ever could

Michele Clapton is one hell of a brilliant costume designer. She is the one who said the costumes on the characters will hint at their desires. She is the one who went in depth on what certain costumes or accessories mean, so much so that they tell their own story outside of the acting, framing, music, and dialogue. She’s really brilliant. Jon was in a similar costume to Ned in 6x09 in the tent scene and then during the Battle of the Bastards. Then, Jon was in Stark clothing up until the end of 8x02, until he was in a sigil-less costume (funnily enough after he is having his identity crisis) though he still maintains the Stark cloak. He continues to don that cloak, except at the feast in 8x04.

Though when he goes to battle in 8x05, he is wearing the Stark emblem as expected, since he’s leading the Northmen into the fight. But then Arya shows up at the end after Tyrion has been arrested, as Jon watches Dany walking away which funnily enough they’re playing a Targaryen-esque theme again, and boom there’s Arya and his choice is in his face again but moving on. Then when he goes to talk to Tyrion, he has no Stark clothing, all sigil-less again. (I think this was done because he still hadn’t made a decision yet while they also were trying to keep the audience in the dark as to what would happen). But when he goes to talk to Dany, even though his clothing is sigil-less, his outfit looks very familiar to what Ned and Robb have worn in the past (indicating stealthily that he had made his decision, not to kill Dany, but that he was a Stark). Sansa’s crown has two wolves at the top, meant to symbolize the pack/her family as was her coronation dress. In my opinion, I don’t think she ever gave up hope that Jon or Arya would return home at some point.

So when it comes to Jonsa, I don’t agree completely with what they did but I do think those who rooted for them as a pairing or just their characters individually were left a very generous open ending so that others could take it and do what they would with it (fanfic, fanart, etc), that this open ending could make room for GRRM’s own ending in the last two books (I’m not sure how this will go in the books, if he even has any plans for it, but I have seen a lot of meta circulating on this site from the book readers who like the idea of the pairing showing clues they’ve picked up that there could be a hint to a Jonsa ending).

To answer your question with a long lengthy answer (sorry!), yes I think they intended to frame Jonsa romantically but not have Jon reciprocate or confirm/deny textually (or even have Sansa put words to it textually). Because they weren’t going to go with one of the predictable endings after all of the hinting/foreshadowing had been laid, (terrible writing to use the Ned/Cat thing as a red herring since the Starks were the underdogs to begin with, no pun intended) GRRM even says himself you can’t just suddenly change it, or do framing to build up something only so you can use it later on as a red herring and then go “gotcha! you didn’t expect that, did you? Oh I’ll give you Jon and Dany but not how you expect, oh I’ll give you Jon and Sansa but not how you expect, oh I’ll give you Jon as a king but not how you expect, expectations and predictability are the scourge that must be subverted at all costs” so they can pat themselves on the back with a “job well done” at fooling the audience and how they shocked them and go “OMG I did not see that coming!” I say the same for Jonerys with the pregnancy/child talk and even their framing, though at least they followed through on the romance part of it textually (regardless of story intentions).

And they definitely intended there to be a love triangle between Dany, Jon, and Sansa:

(the last one is I think meant to show the ruling portion, especially as Dany as the head, but it also shows these were the three main characters when it came to power, despite Cersei of course - though I think Jaime represents that Lannister reminder here as well & she’s being discussed so we don’t forget who still sits on the IT - and despite all the supporting players that go into the whole story)

The whole funeral scene in 8x04 (x) - we see Dany mourning Jorah, then Sansa mourning Theon and then who do they show afterwards? Jon. Then they show Dany walking back to her side, then Sansa walking back to hers in the wide shot. In 4:42, in the wide shot, it’s Sansa, Jon, and then Dany at the funeral pyres, watching them burn. Even when they’re walking away, they’re framed again with Dany in the middle of Jon and Sansa. Then they show Dany’s face, then Sansa’s. It’s just nuts. (to me, this whole scenario gave it away that we opened with two queens mourning their two knights/courtly lovers if you will, and then the rest which just proved more to me that this was a love triangle and that Sansa was in the running to be a queen just as much as Dany and Cersei were). We also see the scene where Jon studies Lyanna Mormont’s body and then turns to look at Dany who is just looking at him, waiting for him to give the signal to light the pyres. I might be reading too much into it but I find it interesting that Lyanna is the one he is going to burn, the same girl who presses Jon when he returns in 8x01 for giving up his crown & holds his feet to the fire, that she was the first to proclaim him as her king in 6x10 - x, first to come to Jon & Sansa’s aid in season 6 that we were shown though that was also due to Davos’ intervention, that she was loyal to House Stark even back when Stannis was around & this shot is followed by him looking at Dany, the reason he is no longer King in the North.

And how many times did Dany mention Sansa to Jon over that season after meeting her? Why was Sansa the one (I mean chosen story wise) to break the secret and be the catalyst for Varys to attempt to usurp Dany with Jon? That Dany was bothered by the most besides Cersei? Yes as a rival queen, a political rival, sure, but she mentions Sansa to Jon far too many times for it to be strictly that. She mentions Cersei a fair bit, too, but the tone is very different, even after Missandei being executed and Rhaegal being killed. Cersei is a bug to be crushed that simply stands in her way and has taken things from her that she should have never touched (the IT, Missandei, Rhaegal) but Sansa... Sansa is almost mentioned with as much vitriol (though way less name calling) by Dany as she is by Cersei. (The War of Five Kings? I think this really became the War of Three Queens at some point)

While Jon chose to protect his family, Arya was not pushing for Jon to kill Dany, she was only pushing for Jon to wake up and realize that he’s not safe since he would always be considered a threat to Dany (x) and would eventually end up being killed (”I know a killer when I see one”). And while I believe Arya would have stood by Sansa loyally and never backed down (that would have put her in danger in Jon’s mind solely, since he doesn’t know about her faceless training), Sansa was really the one that he knew wouldn’t bow down to Dany. The dialogue in that scene “Try telling Sansa” in 8x06, Tyrion mentioning Jon’s sisters and then Sansa specifically in that jail scene in the same episode (though I know he did this to also get through to Jon, exploiting this weak point) (x), Jon’s question to Dany in the throne room later on “what about everyone else? what about all of the other people who think they know what’s good?�� and Dany’s “they don’t get to choose” (x) followed by Jon’s look afterwards...he knows, he also knows Sansa won’t back down and she’ll eventually be executed most likely the same way Varys & the Tarlys were (this is confirmed in the script with the line “Jon understands what this means for the people he loves the most” & he remembers Dany’s line in her speech to the Unsullied & the Dothraki mentioning Winterfell), he makes his decision right then and it weighs heavy on him but he does it - he ultimately lived up to his promise that he made back in 6x09 “I’ll protect you, I promise” to Sansa though she doubted it was possible at the time. (x)

Plus, I’m also looking at Kit’s acting choices here, the Master of Microexpressions himself:

(x) (x) (3:37 - x) - and just to point this out for the whole thing above, isn’t it funny they go from a shot of Jon after Sansa walks away that they go to Torumnd and Brienne, a redhead whose affections are not returned, sure it’s meant to be comedic and obviously Jon is not disgusted by Sansa but also...eh, maybe I’m reading too much into that editing choice...)

This in sync movement as well as framing here (0:48, and before this, just to note, Sansa’s horse keeps pace with Jon’s and she keeps pace with him while walking until the fight breaks out, while also speaking up and keeping in the conversation, meaning not only is she trying to be heard but she’s on an equal level with Jon, they’re a team trying to take Winterfell back, she has the Stark name & he has the military experience - x)

Why the breathlessness, Kit & Sophie? Why acting choices? (3:36 - x) (1:02 with step forward after - x) (1:35, this little inhale right here - x) (1:54 - his shocked reaction to seeing the Starks & his inhale and who is front and center in the lineup? & why that last look after [what I think he’s doing] memorizing Sansa’s & Arya’s faces for the last time, 4:46 when Sansa is not his favorite sibling & they lined them up by affection level almost for Jon with Sansa being the furthest back? x)

It was definitely portrayed as romantic, almost as much as Jonerys was, to feed into the love triangle theme later on they wanted to present. And while the scripts hadn’t been written yet for season 8, D&D did confirm they had started planning the show’s end around the time season 6 was being shot. They also worked with GRRM on certain planning of the final season, they said through video calls or something like that (I’m not sure if they discussed this part of it at all but I’m sure they discussed Dany and Jon and Dany’s fall and what could contribute to it). Benioff also said that the relationship between Jon and Sansa would “be crucial to watch” (though at the time, he was talking about the conflict between them, that Sansa doesn’t trust Jon, didn’t tell him about the KotV, etc).

I think the love triangle was intentional, I think framing Jon and Sansa as the second coming of Ned & Cat was intentional, and I think Sansa having feelings for Jon & their romantic framing/coding was very intentional. I just don’t think the Jonsa endgame (as far as I know) or the Jonerys endgame was intended to be an HEA for either one at the end.

It was always going to come down to Jon having to choose one house or the other, which family, but also choose which queen. In the end, as we know, he chose the Starks, the family he’s always been with and loves, and kept his promise to Sansa. Dany broke the wheel, sure, but Jon ended up being the “shield that guards the realms of men” by taking out the other threat for Westeros, making room for Sansa to remain safely in her home (which is what she’s always wanted) and not under anyone’s thumb or boot heel. Jon took that safety away when he brought Dany up North (though he had to) but thankfully, he restored it even if he wishes that it didn’t have to happen in that way, even if he continues to question if what he did was right (it was, even though I love Dany, she wasn’t going to stop). Sansa was in love with the idea of love as a child, the stories about princes and knights, we know this canonically about her character (more from the books, but I think they intimated it in season 1 with the whole Joffrey arc). I think in her eyes, Jon is that prince, that knight, especially after she saw how he was as a king, even if his decisions frustrated her at times. I think she trusted him after they take back Winterfell (though she didn’t care for his decision to bend the knee and now we see that she had good reason) but she never naively did, if that makes sense. She still kept her wits about her, and even though I don’t think she ever expected Jon to do what he did in the end, killing Dany, I think she still hoped he would be safe and would she, and by extension Arya (should she return) and Bran, and that maybe hopefully someday Jon would come back home. She still had her feelings but she accepted that Jon had made his choice (even if she didn’t understand it or agree) and it wasn’t her or the Starks (from that convo with Tyrion in 8x04). But in the end, Jon did choose her and the Starks, and absolutely proved himself a Stark, and part of the pack.

It’s almost wasted potential, but I think that’s what they were kind of going for. I know the actors themselves balked at the idea of Jonsa as a romantic pairing (Sophie’s response at a comic con when a fan mentioned Jonsa as a ship, Kit’s recent reaction on a video call or panel with “that’s weird” when someone mentioned Jonsa as a ship, etc) but after all of this, you can’t tell me that’s not what they were shooting for even if they never intended for it to became overtly textual like Jonerys did, even if it was only used to push Dany towards her fall in the end. Bittersweet, indeed.

So, my friend, I hope this very long post answers that question for you. I’d be very curious to hear what you think, too! <3

#ask #jonsa #dark!dany mention #got #game of thrones #got posts #got love triangle #anti jonerys slightly #jon x sansa #got meta

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