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theroundbartable · 1 day

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(sending hugs)

what are your thoughts about aithusa? personally i love her way to much, but she rarely comes up in fandom discourse

HEY :D Thoughts about AIthusa, huh? I have many of those. Thoughts, I mean. In my brain. They like to swim around and create a whole mess of things sometimes.

I think the reason why Aithusa doesn't come up in fandom discourse often is because there isn't very much to say. Aithusa was born, then color coded as a sign for the golden future of Camelot and was then abandoned by Merlin. Tortured by a crazy guy. Then raised by Morgana and used to create the sword that later killed Arthur. Whenever they come up in fandom discouse, it's mostly about Merlin doing his job as Dragon Lord right or wrong. But you wanted my thoughts, so I'm gonna allow my head to spin weird shit around the ungendered Dragon. (That is why I will use they/them pronouns for Aithusa.) When it comes to Aithusa's name, not the canon translation, I mean what it literally means, it's hard to find, since they used old English for the language of magic, and I think Greek for the language of the Dragon Lords (which doesn't necessarily have to apply to the Dragon names) and I haven't seen anyone make a post about it. All I get from Google translate is "Hey you" in Gaelic and that's a bit useless. Or well, this:

The automatic language recognition in Google would let me interpret Aithusa as a gift to the world. Or Arthur, depending on your shipping interests. Or, you know, if I could make up the Old English maybe pseudo-parts of the word (the writers were very lazy in BBC Merlin, they are literally quoting Beowulf when Merlin magics the blue ball in the poisoned chalice.). Something fitting I found in my old English dictionary is agan, meaning to possess, and to own, and thus (spelled with a thorn which my keyboard doesn't have) meaning as follows. So, in my absolutely amateurish and interpretational, and way too far reaching ways, I would say Aithusa could mean: A(gan) thus (a): To own the future.

(Again, you asked for my thoughts, this is not canon and probably pointless, I just needed to go down this route first.)

In the fandom wiki, we find THESE informations on Aithusa.

So, things we do know are very few

Aithusa is a baby

Aithusa was tortured and is therefore crippled

Aithusa cannot talk

Aithusa probably has Stockholm Syndrom because of Morgana

But you know, I think it's very interesting to know that Aithusa is the Light of the Sun, the literal sign for a Golden Future and that very sign can be hurt by a mere human. Not only does this mean that humans can kill Dragons (the Dragon lore doesn't make any sense, I swear to god) but it's also meant to be symbolism. Merlin, just like Arthur, is shown to be his own doom through Aithusa. They are hidden, tortured, kept from living their truth, abandoned by everyone who should be leading and protecting them.

With Aithusa being born it means that at that point, Merlin had already fulfilled his destiny. At this point in time, the golden age is already there and it should have been a sign for Merlin to speak up about his magic. He never did, that's why Aithusa remains mute. And just like magic itself, when harmed or in danger, Aithusa can easily be used for evil.

Apart from the symbolism and their part in Arthur's death, Aithusa doesn't contribute much to the story, I think. Yes, they console Morgana and they are like the continuation of the Dragon lineage, but that's ultimately pointless. Aithusa will be, inevitably, be the last Dragon. Which is honestly really cruel, but again, parallel to Merlin himself. That's where Aithusa's arc ends, unfortuntaley. Personally, knowing all that, I find Aithusa hard to use as the character they are in canon. With what little defines their character, you have to ultimately change everything about them to use them in fun fics and comics and stuff. That's why they end up as a little dog creature so often.

Don't get me wrong, I love Aithusa. But I love FANON Aithusa, just like I prefer fanon Sir Leon over canon Sir Leon. Because fanon Aithusa is like a domesticated chicken that Merlin keeps in his rooms or fights custody over with Morgana while Arthur is either oblivious, supportive, or being gaslit. But maybe I am overlooking a lot of things. So, if any of you like to disagree or add anything to my points, feel free to engage ^^

#bbc merlin #merlin #Aithusa #faq #ask #answer #merlin meta #sorry if this wasn't what you expected #I never know what to do with Aithusa

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shortmexicangirl · 1 year

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you know when you’re watching a show and you just see the moment when a non-canon ship is born and know the fandom is gonna take it and run

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flurry-bace · 5 months

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look. I know they're queerbaiting us. I know it. hOWEVER-

#GRAHDFGFYWSGFGSUFHOU #you know what i mean #PLEASE #honestly this applies to SO many ships and fandoms #sonadow prime #sonic prime #sonic prime s3 #sonic prime season 3 #sonic the hedgehog #shadow the hedgehog #sonadow #shadonic #sonic x shadow #shadow x sonic #queerbaiting #sonic prime s3 trailer #sonic prime season 3 trailer

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jasontoddsmommyissues · 2 years

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Bitches be like “it’s my comfort ship” and then it’s two characters that never even got together and are both dead. (it’s me. I’m bitches)

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chubs-deuce · 2 months

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Charlastor brainworms anon here again. I was reading your reply to a recent ask and i have to say I agree, and also it's really silly to me that some people act like charlastor is some kind of morally dubious ship.

I don't think anyone's here to ship this because they want it to be canon, it's honestly just for fun! There's nothing wrong with it being non-canon compliant.

As an aroace lesbian, charlie isn't even lesbian herself, just in a lesbian relationship. So many ships split up canon pairings anyway, it's not something new. And i think people tend to forget aromanticism and asexuality are broad spectrums, it's not a black and white one or the other. The aroace label can encompass a lot of different identities, and there are many ways to pair alastor and charlie while still respecting his identity. He could be romance favorable, or they could be queer platonic, or people could just generally have different headcanons for him. It's also very telling that I don't see people bringing up how he's aroace nearly as much with radioapple or other ships. Fan works don't have to be an exact mirror of whatever's canon, and that's not the serious issue that some people act like it is.

Right?

I've generally noticed in recent years that people act so much more viciously towards non-canon ships when they're het-presenting.... :')

I think a lot of it has to do with how fandoms generally tend to assign more inherent moral value towards more visibly queer pairings... Combine that with the bs that is twitter's infestation of performative activism and morality policing in modern age fandom culture and this is the result lol

What gets me is the sheer fucking hypocrisy of it all tbh?

People keep conflating Aromantic and Asexual and confusing them with one another in their anti posting about this ship and it will never not be the bane of my goddamn existence tbh, especially because they're not even consistent with what ships they apply this criticism to, as you've also pointed out.

I will personally assume that anyone who can't tell these two labels apart and acts like they're one and the same yet whines about shippers not respecting Alastor's canon sexuality is probably nobody worth listening to anyways.

Charlie btw is canonically bisexual, and the amount of blatant fucking bi erasure I keep seeing people do just to feel morally superior for calling her a lesbian like it's a clever argument against a non-canon ship is so tiring...

Ultimately the best course of action is to silently block and ignore them.

Can we go back to that era of the internet where people would explore shipping two characters just because they stood next to each other for three frames or because their color schemes match or something equally insignificant?

We had so much more fun getting creative with how we just made random dolls kiss for fun back then :(

#charlastor #radiobelle #chubs answers #negative post

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stargirlie25 · 3 months

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Ive come to the conclusion that Gwynriels are probably the most healthiest side of the ship war.

Its just my opinion MIND IT!

Like most elriels are sometimes anti gwyn or lucien and have a very strong ego which i wont talk much about. They can also be anti nessian (i dont mind) but also anti Nesta and most likely pro feysand.They have honestly crossed multiple boundaries with the fandom

-threats 2 sjm's family including her son-r@pe dms-shaming real people for not including something or simply saying something-

They shamed author Elena Armas for saying she leaned toward Gwynriel more so much she put it on her story

Shamed an author recently for saying sjm's outfit gave Gwyn vibes

ETC,ETC,ETC

Eluciens in terms of real life are very healthy and are honestly the smaller portion of the ship wars. However as much as it is so fun to ship elain and lucien, many eluciens hold the stance such as ''anti feysand, anti nessian, anti inner circle,anti Azriel'' There isnt anything wrong with that ofc!

Gwynriels have been involved with a bit of both. There have been real life toxic versions of them (imo not as bad as elriels) and they sometimes hate on Elain but that's pretty much it. Gwynriels are most likely eluciens so they love Gwyn,Elain,Lucien,Azriel,inner circle,valkyries,feysand,nessian and the normal. (some dont)

I feel like it we are going to continue the series, its more peaceful to just not hate the characters because honestly you might just have to find a different series because Sarah loves a lot that yall hate.

Just from my personal experience and what i have seen in like my four-ish years in this fandom. Not as long as some of you but around the time the ship wars started haha

I used to be an Elriel too because like most elriels i thought the 3sis x 3bros was perfect. Its not and im not going to talk about it here. Just saying, during those times i was disturbed by some elriels comments and how cocky and mean they could be. It was not even confidence just flat out insults,jabs and comments i hate such as ''ours is canon theirs is fanon'' ''delusional'' ''did you even read the same book'' Keep in mind the fandom was NOT the reason i switched to gwynriel/elucien so don't even try to bombarde me with all the elucien/gwynriel comments and hell yeah i know they exist.

I will forever be an elucien and love elain and lucien together and divided although some of them can be immature and they lack some understanding.

Literally all of this could apply to Gwynriel however being apart of the Gwynriel side is easiest for me!

Can any of yall agree?

Please be nice btw!

#pro gwynriel #acotar #gwynriel #pro elain #pro gwyn #elucien #pro elucien #anti elriel #pro lucien #anti e/riel #pro azriel

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cursedvibes · 3 months

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jjk having queer-coded villains seems to be an intentional choice. what are your thoughts on this

Honestly, I think the queer themes and characters we've gotten in jjk are pretty great. Yes, some of them are villains and that is a common harmful trope, but first of all it is not just the villains and second you have to look at how their queerness is portrayed and implemented into their characters.

We have characters like Kirara and Hakari and I think you can count Tengen too, who are queer(-coded) and not villains. Their queerness is pretty explicit in case of Kirara and Tengen with Kirara having clearly transitioned and being some flavour of trans and Tengen also openly stating she's lost interest in gender and is if anything a gnc woman. Queerness is also not their entire character, just one minor aspect of it that is honestly not that important. Tengen being responsible for the creation of jujutsu society and Kirara rebelling against the school and then choosing to aid the kids in the Culling Game is much more significant than their gender. Tengen corrects Yuki about being a man and then we move on, it is not actually a big deal. Yuki is more concerned with Tengen's actions than her gender.

The comment from Panda insisting that Kirara is a guy was weird, but it isn't brought up again, everyone just doesn't gender Kirara when seeing them without making a big deal about how "weird" it is for a presumed guy to have boobs like you might've expected in other pieces of media. The implication here I think is just that Panda hasn't seen Kirara in a while nor knows them very well. The comment was unnecessary in my opinion, you could've shown in a better way that Kirara transitioned, but the way it is treated afterwards makes it better. I think it especially helps that we see Hakari so accepting of Kirara, it is something normal and their relationship is loving. Kirara's gender or presumed sex is no issue at all between them and the other characters just roll with it too.

Same could be said for things like Geto and Gojo's relationship for example, the most prominent example of queer-coding in jjk as is also heavily displayed in marketing for season 2 of the anime. Obvious choice, they are by for the most popular ship and tapping into shipping sells. Their the sasunaru of jjk. I don't think you could call it queerbaiting though because contrary to sasunaru you don't have this "jk they both ended up marrying some random women like the heterosexual men they are" and there are literally no confirmed relationships in jjk anywhere except for the people who are married (and those usually don't love each other). stsg have as much ground to stand on as Kirara/Hakari or Muta/Miwa. They are milking that money cow, but with the way it is handled in canon, it doesn't bother me much ignoring their fanbase.

Another aspect we see in stsg that also applies to how we see queerness in some of the villains is that their relationship (of whatever nature that might be) is there to humanize both Gojo and Geto. There is actually some meaning to it, not just shipper bait or an insane villain being gay and that being included as another aspect of him being reproachful like you see with many Disney villains. Geto's bond with Gojo (and his family) is portrayed as the last bits of sanity left in him and also any criticism you'd leverage against that could apply to Gojo as well, a main character.

Similar with the queerness of the other villains. It is either an unimportant detail of their identity or it is actively used to humanize them. Uraume's gender is purposefully unconfirmed, nobody even makes any assumptions and that fact is about as important as their hair colour. It's just part of their identity, nothing more. It is not portrayed as predatory or used for any "trap" jokes. At least not in canon, the fandom is its own beast and I think their behaviour comes from what they are used to seeing in other media not due to anything done in jjk.

Kashimo falls into the same category of unconfirmed gender. Fans and some fantranslators assume Kashimo is a man based on what they looked like in the past, but it is actually never confirmed in the manga. Neither Hakari or anyone else ever genders Kashimo. There being no assumptions made or their possible gender or androgynous appearance discussed. People just roll with it and it isn't made to stand out in the story. I don't think you can even call Kashimo a villain, more like an antagonist similar to Higuruma was one with selfish morality. Their gender or appearance doesn't play into that at all.

With Kenjaku I guess you could see them taking over Kaori as predatory towards Jin, but it is played different than the common tropes. For one, Jin is as it seems aware of the change, just chooses to ignore it. It isn't played as a "man tricked other man into sex" or "man disguised as a woman", in fact the story goes quite out of its way to state that Kenjaku isn't (cis) male actually. Both Wasuke and Jin address Kenjaku as a women, even when they have suspicions. Kaori stays in some form with Kenjaku, she isn't just a cheap disguise and pregnancy overall is an important topic for Kenjaku both in good and bad ways. When Kenjaku says "thank you for getting along with my son" it is the first big step towards giving Kenjaku more depth than just them being a big bad mastermind. Kenjaku cares in some way for their child and doesn't just see him as a test subject. So the time in Kaori's body clearly had value to them as well beyond just getting a vessel for Sukuna. Same goes for their meeting with Takaba for example, which is the biggest example we got so far of Kenjaku being proven to care about other people and gaining depth through it. Their relationship with Tengen could count as well.

So the queer aspects we got of Kenjaku are there, but they aren't shown in canon to be something strange, quite the opposite usually. I think you see it best when you compare Kenjaku to Orochimaru, who clearly, as stated by Gege too, is a big influence for the character. Orochimaru has the body of a woman in the first part of the series, takes over the bodies of children and shows interest in Sasuke that is often seen as gay. Orochimaru is portrayed as predatory particularly towards children/boys, a persistent stereotype of gay and/or effeminate men as well as trans people. When Orochimaru reveals in the fight against Hiruzen that he inhabits the body of a woman, the characters around are disgusted and not only because this means another person's body was violated, the uncertainty of Orochimaru's gender unsettles them. You see the same thing in Boruto. Multiple characters make mean or disgusted comments about Orochimaru because they can't tell their gender and the whole "are you a man or a woman, a father or a mother" gets pushed a lot, often used as a joke. Mitsuki is being supportive and corrects people, but that doesn't stop Orochimaru's gender being brought up almost every time they feature in the series. "omg I can't tell this person's gender this is so weird and creepy" don't you have more pressing concerns like the fetuses swimming in those tanks or the human cloning?

Compared to that, Kenjaku is handled much better. There is no weird fixation on children, they have only taken over adults from what we've seen so far (due to the size of their brain and it being a real organ I think that is even a necessity) and the bodies are also mainly there for practical needs, Kenjaku isn't shown lusting after them no matter the person's gender. Choso goes from assuming Kenjaku is Yuuji's father to calling them a parent. It isn't commented on, we just assume Tengen informed him. Kenjaku being revealed to be Yuuji's mother isn't shocking because "wtf that's a man in a woman's body", it is more so about the implications of them being related. It is also used to show that Kenjaku is actually not a cis man (everyone at that time even doubting Wasuke uses she/her naturally with Kenjaku not objecting to it despite not really pretending to be Kaori) and by being his mother they have a closer personal connection to Yuuji. The fandom usually puts more harmful tropes into this moment than there actually are in the manga. I'm pretty sure Yuuji was more concerned about Kenjaku actually being related to him than Kenjaku being his mother aka exhibiting a gender he might not have expected. The "my father is your mother that's so mind-boggling and weird" is something that only exists in fandom. I don't see a reason why Choso or Yuuji would care and everyone else even less.

Takaba putting Kenjaku in a nurse outfit is also only portrayed as another fun part of their shenanigans, being neither overly sexualized nor seen as off-putting or weird. I think it was actually put there because Gege wanted to emphasize once more that having a female body doesn't unsettle Kenjaku, they see it as normal. It is part of their identity, but that itself isn't the thing being made fun of, it's a joke about sexy nurses that's detrimental to Takaba if anything.

In the same way, Kenjaku being pregnant with Tengen isn't made a big deal either beyond what it means for the Culling Game or the merger. It isn't a strange pregnant man, just another instance of pregnancy symbolism in this manga where cursed wombs are quite a common thing. And Kenjaku's whole deal is motherhood, birth and pregnancy down to the choice of their name, which is derived from an ambiguously gendered or Virgin Mary-adjacent bodhisattva. These pregnancy themes are shown as both a good thing and a bad thing depending on the context and not on principle as disgusting or bad. Kenjaku's gender fluidity has thematic relevance, but it isn't mocked or portrayed as bad by itself.

Beyond Uraume, Kenjaku and maybe Geto depending on how you look at it, I don't think there are any other queer-coded villains? Mahito was a high school girl for a juju sanpo, but that episode was more wholesome if anything and I think it was just there to show his fluidity in sex and gender. Once again not mocked or brought up as a reason for why he's evil (she isn't even that evil in that high school AU).

So yeah, I don't see a problem here, I actually wish more mangas or animes would portray queer characters this way. Make sure villains aren't the only queer characters, don't make queerness their entire character trait and treat the characters with respect.

#asks #jujutsu kaisen

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aro-bird · 3 months

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I do have to say, as someone on the camp of "you could probably ship someone else who isn't non-partnering but honestly I don't care as long as you don't harass people over this", I think it's lost on some people that the reason why so many non-partnering aroaces may become defensive over these characters even if "it's just fandom" is the fact that a lot of aroaces who do fit these stereotypes and who may fall into this camp genuinely had horrible experiences about their social circles and yes, especially this fandom site, harassing them and saying they don't exist or that they're mentally ill and should "get fixed" among other things.

As common it is to see aspecs here on Tumblr, the queer social media site, you need to understand that there's still a lot of contempt for aroaces outside and inside this place. Hell, I received an ask calling aros and aces delusional just last Christmas Day 2023 that came with a wave of increased arophobia around that time. As much as that time period was definitely discourse against aroallo men, aphobes did not cherry pick on who they're sending hate to.

Besides this, a lot of non-partnering aroaces often receive this kind of dismissal in real life too and as much as some people may think it's not a big deal, it definitely fucks up your brain when people say you and your experiences not only don't matter but you are doomed to live a lonely and miserable life if you don't find someone. Even my otherwise very supportive relatives expressed this concern and it's absolutely out of care but it's fucking damaging to constantly hear that I will die alone if I don't find a partner (romantic, platonic, or otherwise).

This is besides dismissals like this or even non-acceptance had literally barred me from mental health care when I was a teenager because my specialist said I had a "distressed sexuality" and had specialists focused on that aspect rather than all my other issues.

The shipping of a non-partnering (typically romance repulsed or uninterested) character feels like another form of dismissal for someone like me, like my sexuality is not good enough or serious enough to be respected. The shipping of these characters sometimes reinforce the narrative that non-partnering aroace people can't find happiness on their own and do need someone (romantic, platonic, or otherwise) to be happy or they will become happier if they do find this someone. People are having fun with their ships but there are still many people who don't want to spend the time actually extending grace and understanding towards me and my experiences. I'm just another discourse topic and someone who's inconvenient to some of them.

This doesn't even account for how these fan communities aren't just filled with aspec people and do extend to allos who may take some of the discourse and actively apply it in real life to other real life aspec people. People who go and interact with real human beings and may hurt them or harass them. It isn't even accounting for the fact that even online things affect real people too.

Of course, I do understand that a lot more complex aspec identities often don't get the spotlight so they may express themselves through shipping fandom characters but non-partnering people should deserve more than these people isn't really the point of this post.

The point here is that there's a reason why a lot of non-partnering (typically repulsed or uninterested) aroace people get defensive about these things even in fan communities and it's very likely that it's because aphobia and especially against the stereotypical aroace™ still very much exist outside of our little community and they can be informed by media and the fans that consume it and this shit could genuinely have negative consequences. This of course extends to those who do have complex aspec identities as society does not treat those who don't live up to what is expected as "normal" in terms of romantic relationships and sexual attraction kindly.

Distancing yourself from these aroaces who do have frustrations with how media and fandom treat their sexuality because they're being "prudes" or are just affected by "purity culture" is unhelpful to say the least and honestly veers eerily close to shit I hear aphobes say about us.

Absolutely do stop people and block them if they're instigating and participating in harassment over shipping of all things, even these aroaces, but trying to say that every person who do have issues with shipping aroace characters are the same way with this is extremely lacking nuance and absolutely dismissive of other members of the community and why they may have the opinion they hold.

#mayaposts #shipping #ship #shipping discourse #aroace #aroace representation #aro #ace #aromantic #asexual #aromantic asexual #<- again sorry for tagging these it is relevant since the discussion is more community wide #the disk horse #<- tagging this here bc yes this is definitely related to that discourse too #amatonormativity #allonormativity

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knightobreath · 2 months

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Ok I gotta know

What’s your thoughts on that one anon (🐝)’s takes

context 1 and context 2

ohohohohhohohoohohohoh. ohohohoh. Well. Basically they're wrong about what headcanons ARE and how they work as a fan created thing. They also definitely need to examine why they feel the way they do about headcanoning characters as having marginalized identities. I wrote a whole essay on trans headcanons specifically under a similar ask and what I said can be easily applied to other aspects of headcanoning characters as minorities (i actually got a lot of the ideology for that essay from discussions of "blackwashing" in fandom)

some other things on what they said (warning: LONG)

My major issues with their thoughts on headcanons can be summed up with the essay i linked. im not going to be going into that stuff as deeply again because we would be here all day, so the rest is just specifics

"but i really hate it when people change pronouns of characters (IVE SEEN PEOPLE USE SHE/HER WHEN REFERING TO SILVER SPOON. LET THE MAN BE A MAN IF HE WANTS TO BE A MAN.)"

Silver Spoon, and other characters for that matter, are quite frankly not real and do not have actual desires or feelings that you can hurt. Also see my essay on trans headcanons.

"but what makes me the most furious is... people making characters autistic. nothing against autism, i understand that, but do you really need to make paper, fan, silver spoon, pen, etc. autistic just because they have specific interests or act... idk, just the way they act?! its just. it doesnt make sense to me."

Bee needs to examine why they feel the way they do about autistic headcanons. A majority of the times characters are being headcanoned as autistic, they're being headcanoned as that be actual neurodivergent people who seem themselves or their autistic friends in these characters or traits.

There are certainly some issues with certain aspects of autistic (or any other disability) headcanons, like infantilization, but Bee's issue seems to be the fact that there are a lot of characters being headcanoned. Which is just not a problem.

"hc's that dont affect story are fine, but ones that completely flip the story or ignore anything confirmed by the employees."

Headcanons are personal thoughts on the story and do not have any bearing on the story or how you interpret the characters. They are a fan creation like fanart or fanfiction.

"EX: "i headcanon that mic and knife are in a relationship!" that completely ignores the fact that some of the pride month art shows that knife is gay. Cakebrunch (official II storyboarder) confirmed that soap and mic are in a relationship."

Cakebrunch is not a writer and does not have any bearing on the written canon of the characters. Just because he works on the show does not mean his headcanons have any bearing on the canon.

"make as many autistic characters you want, yeah! its great to support autism! but you dont have to make every character autistic, okay? (directed towards people that hc lots of characters as autistic)"

Again, the people who are doing this are mostly autistic or otherwise neurodivergent. And they aren't "making" the characters autistic, they're depicting them as such. No harm in that.

Now for the ships ask.

This is less of my domain, as I'm not really a shipper and don't know much about romance and relationship dynamics but I will try.

Also like nothing against people who don't like shipping as a whole, I totally get it. I was in your boat before.

"i absolutely HATE osc ships. half of them are either "oh these characters dislike each other/disliked each other at one point" and the other half is "these two friends should date because theyre friends.""

and that leaves..... characters who haven't interacted?

honestly, if this was between real people that would be really disrespectful.

Except they're not, so it's completely fine. I have a feeling Bee was in an RPF heavy fandom before this one, this and the previous take about pronouns are common discourse points in those.

EX: Fantube. yeah, they tried to raise shimmer together and built bot, but platonic parents exist and CAN THEY JUST BE FRIENDS?! PLEASE?

Like headcanons, ships have no bearing on the canon and in canon they are just friends.

EX: Nickloon. ok, nickels trying to make up for being rude to balloon all throughout season two. but really? they dont have to date just because theyre friends, yknow. imagine someone saying "oh you and your best friend who you only platonicallly love- you should date!" to you. that'd honestly be rude.

They're not real so they can't experience this. Problem solved.

yeah, some ships are confirmed but thats different. EX: Knickle. offical II storyboarder Cakebrunch CONFIRMED theyre in a relationship. thats an official employee of the series saying that a ship is real. not some random person on TikTok saying that TennisGolf is canon because TB is GB's closest ally.

Again with citing Cakebrunch's fan stuff as canon. Interesting how they cited a storyboarder's fan works twice but failed to mention Balloon being arospec as said by a show creator in the nickloon section. While I have my thoughts on word-of-god confirmation, which I will not be getting into here, it is far more canon than any fanwork.

A lot of the rest of this is just confusion about why people ship things. This is different for each ship and each shipper, and if you're ever confused about where a ship came from you can just ask the shipper. There's usually a reason (and depending on who you ask, a whole essay) as to why a ship came about or how it would work. Sometimes though it is just for fun or comedy, and that's not really a bad thing. We're here to enjoy ourselves, after all.

One last thing though,

and dont get me started on those ships that throw certain characters in canon ships (looking at you, metallic salad/metallic salad + mephone shippers.) because like. why? certain characters have established relationships with others, and your just like "ohh well those two are in a relationship, but mic and knife are a cute ship so how about mic + knife + pickle? makes sense!" like. please.

I don't know much on dynamics and specifics (see: not much of a shipper) but from what I have seen of multiships and polyships, all the dynamics and how the characters would all work together is very much thought about.

Also knickle isn't canon and the people shipping knife x mic x pickle are also aware knickle isn't canon. Nobody is thinking of it like that.

Anyways, time for the conclusion.

Bee anon is fundamentally wrong about how fandom works. Headcanons and ships hold no baring on the canon or your interpretation of the canon. Fandom is a place where canon is transformed in fan works for the fan's enjoyment, it is not a place where canon is determined or changed. You can interpret a work however you please, you can even divorce it from fan works entirely if you wish. Bee also has some things they need to think about in regards to why they feel the way they do about queer and autistic headcanons.

Thanks for reading.

#GOD was that long.#knightext #asks #fandom is like my no.1 interest and you can't ask me for my opinions on fandom discourse without getting an essay sorry

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demarogue · 1 year

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Gunna say something and it’s not gunna be as gracious and measured as what some of my friends have said.

This is a message for the ship warriors of ACOTAR. It applies more broadly but this is honestly the most toxic dysfunctional fandom I have ever had the pleasure(???) of participating in, so it’s mostly for this one.

You all need to get a fucking grip.

These characters are not real. The world SJM has created is not real. I love the books as much as anyone can, I have reread them many times and they are my preferred escapism when I’m having a shitty time but it is just that — escapism.

You know who IS real? The fanfic author you’re dragging. That’s a real person. The artist who made a picture of a ship or a character you don’t like is a real person. The other fans who have theories you don’t like or opinions you disagree with are real people. (The author herself is also a real person, though I suspect that statement might get me dragged. This isn’t really about her, though.)

If someone is unable to remember which of these things are imaginary and which are real, and uses their fandom presence to genuinely hurt a REAL PERSON because they disagree with them about a ship — that’s shitty, toxic behavior. That’s not neutral behavior. I hope people in this fandom start blocking those folks en masse because they need to lose their followings. I’m gunna go a step further and say that if you continue to follow/support people who are doing this, that’s not neutral behavior either.

Apologies really don’t mean anything if the behavior continues.

I made a space (on discord) that is zero drama because the way this fandom operates on tumblr and tiktok and the bird website is atrocious. I did that specifically so I can kick people out if they cannot treat others with respect. If you want to come hang, you can dm me (I’m not posting the link publicy again because I’m not interested in playing whack-a-mole with trolls). It’s 18+ only, for ethical reasons.

I will not be entertaining excuses and devil’s advocates and he-said-she-saids about the situation I’m referring to. If it reminds you of something, it probably applies. If you were involved, I hope you make actual amends to the person you hurt. And I hope everyone across fandoms gets their act together for 2023.

It’s supposed to be fun, y’all. It’s supposed to be joyful.

#fandom #acotar

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findafight · 6 days

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The "Robin would never date Steve's ex who broke his heart" take is FUCKING stupid for a lot of reasons.

First of off, the autonomy you're taking out of Robin with this.

Like she's not Steve's sidekick, she's not his yes man, she's an indepent girl who should be free to date any girl she wants.

She would never let her friendship with him ostacolate her love life.

Why the fuck she should do that?!

No one would.

And also, Steve is actually the one who hurt Nancy the most (slut Nancy Wheeler).

And if you think for a second that Robin would ever take Steve's side, then you're wrong.

Just stop centering everything around Steve, and stop reducing Robin to be just his sidekick, 'cause she's FUCKING not.

Hi! So. Pretty sure you found the most recent post I made (on April 6th) tagged anti rnce (and ONLY anti rnce. Not even stranger things. Just anti rnce and my personal original text post tag and a quip about choosing violence. So clearly if that’s how you got here you chose to not just send a post you disagreed with to your friends to rant about but came into my inbox and tried to start shit)And if you didn’t I truly don’t get how you, clearly a rnce fan, found me.

I’m going to be honest. Neither of us are going to change each other’s minds. I don’t like rnce for a lot of reasons, from i just don’t see a romantic spark there to a lot of the shippers being kinda shitty. I don’t care what you ship, really, just that. Claiming it’s canon or should be canon endgame etc gets annoying. And that a lot of the times the way I’ve seen the relationship portrayed (because, contrary to possibly popular belief, I have actually tried to read some fics for them. It’s also such a commonly untagged side or background pairing that I am subjected to it like that often as well) there’s so often weird terf or radfem red flags and alarm bells going off. I’ve seen someone harassed by rnce shippers for calling them out and then those shippers loudly regurgitating terf talking points like it’s fucking funny. I know all fandoms and ships have bad eggs but holy shit.

There’s been a few posts about how for some reason rnce fans try to portray people who don’t like it as making Robin Steve’s sidekick, when really we are acknowledging the facets of her characterization other than her lesbianism. Just because she likes girls doesn’t mean that’s the only thing that matters to her!

Yes, Robin liking girls is part of who she is, it influences how she acts and what she talks about, but it’s not the ONLY thing about her. She likes old movies, she enjoys pop and new wave music, she does her make up in her best friend’s car, she forgot to mention she never learned to drive because he forgot to ask if she could, she thinks combining into a super being with said best friend would possibly solve most of their problems.

Robin is a character who makes her own choices! She chooses to butt in at scoops, chooses to stay with Steve in the bunker to hold off the Russians, chooses to tell him her deepest secret, chooses to apply for jobs with Steve once they heal from the mall, chooses to spend a lot of time with him! And that’s rad. It gives us insight on who she is!

Whenever I’ve written or talked about Robin choosing not to date Nancy, I’ve always made it perfectly clear that it is Robin’s choice. Because given what we see of her in two seasons, Robin is loyal, and greatly values her friendship with Steve. Like. Regardless of how Steve feels about it, and I do think of Robin was legitimately interested in Nancy and Steve thought she had a chance, he’d encourage her to go for it. (Steve isn’t blindly encouraging Robin to hit on Vickie. He has high suspicions that Vickie is queer in some way too! She likes boobies!) I think Robin would think twice about it just because how much she encouraged stancy to get back together in s4.

Honestly, it makes me sad seeing how many times “why would robin choose her best friend’s feelings over getting a gf” is said because like. I value my friends’ feelings all the time. If I thought something I was doing was or would hurt them, I would reevaluate. Why WOULDNT Robin consider her best friend’s feelings? The first person she ever came out to? Who made her feel safe and accepted? Who made her laugh when she felt most vulnerable? Who she encouraged to get back with his ex? Romance is not a level up from friendship, it is not the endgame of life, it is not superior to any other relationship type. Treating friendships as less important to romance is something to reconsider and reevaluate.

Your last point. Anon, who is centring Steve now? Sure. He fucked up in s1. Literally no one denies that. He fucked up and he worked to make things right. He cleaned up the graffiti, he went to apologize to Jonathan, and he presumably apologized to Nancy, because she decided to date him for eleven months after that. I highly doubt there wasn’t heavy gossip about the graffiti or their breakup/makeup. I do agree that before Tina’s party Steve wasn’t helping Nancy as much as he could have, but Nancy wasn’t communicating to him either. They weren’t in the right place for each other. If we consider the alley the breakup, how is that not still breaking his heart? Yes Nancy was on a noble crusade, but it still had collateral damage. It’s something interesting about her character!

Robin wouldn’t be on board with the graffiti. But like. Steve’s changed and apologized since then. And She wasn’t there? She’s just here for the aftermath of Steve’s reignited feelings for Nancy. Idk. Both Steve and Nancy hurt each other in s1/2. It’s not a Steve v Nancy thing? It’s just an acknowledgment that of the two, Robin is closer to Steve. She’s more likely to consider him. She’s not omniscient to everything that happened or the persons feelings and reasons for doing it.

I’m sorry you don’t think friendship has an equal or greater value than some romantic relationship, it must suck. I also hope you find better things to do than to come to someone’s inbox and try to start something over a ship you like that they don’t.

#anti ronance #I censored it in my answer but anon didn’t so it might show up in the search #but not in the tag #findaanswers #listen. just get out of here #if you think I’m a stupid idiot then block and move on #but you clearly came here from somewhere looking at stuff to be mad at because I always make sure to tag #also everyone ignores that Steve has CURRENT FEELINGS for Nancy that ROBIN ENCOURAGED

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sokkastyles · 20 days

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Whenever I see anti-zutara posts, I honestly feel anxious and because I have intrusive thoughts it worsens my anxiety, so I get worried if they're right. Sometimes I feel like deleting my blog and now that I have gotten messages telling me to off myself I want to lie low but also it is not really stopping me from posting just more stressed to do so. So how do you handle these antis and people who send you hate messages without feeling anxious?

If it really bothers you to see those kinds of posts, I would recommend filtering the relevant tags. I try to tag any posts with negativity that I reblog as "the discourse" so you can block that tag if those posts stress you out to see.

I'm sorry people are sending you those messages. Just know that even if they are "right," nothing justifies sending you harassing messages, so you automatically have the high ground here. Nobody who acts that way towards you over fictional characters has a right to tell you about your own morals.

There's actually not really anything anyone can say about zutara that would make it wrong to ship them, but even if there was, you don't have to answer to anyone else about why you ship something. I actually have a lot of ships in other fandoms that would be considered much worse, but I literally do not care what other people think about what I ship, or how I engage in fiction. It's not for them to decide things about me based on what I ship. But as ships go, zutara is actually very tame in the world of "problematic" ships. And I'm old enough that I've seen many of the same arguments used against ships that are much darker on the spectrum, so when people use the same arguments to discredit zutara it just kind of makes me laugh.

What I recommend you to do to combat these things, for your own mental health, is to try not to get involved in arguments. Block the relevant tags and users if you have to. And read widely. Expose yourself to a lot of different media and you'll see that 1) the world is much bigger than antis think it is, and 2) that negative people will apply the same arguments over and over again. That doesn't mean you have to listen to them.

#zutara #the discourse

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bunytime · 1 year

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about Kyle and HUMANCENTiPAD

I only feel comfortable talking on this specific issue because it's not solely regarding head-canons or ships and I prefer to avoid infighting over more inflammatory topics to the best of my ability. Also, Tumblr allows for more nuanced discussion so I'm putting it here

This is not an aimed post, it's just my two cents

I want to start by saying I don't think someone is horrible for preferring to draw the most “canon-compliant” version of characters. I follow this in my own way. I'm commenting on why this is a concern to me as one Jewish fan. I don’t speak for anyone but myself.

While there are exceptions, it is discomforting to see Kyle with these mouth scars for many reasons. I think S15E1 is pretty torture-porn-y as far as South Park goes (I don’t have a better term for this, sorry). No, I honestly don’t feel grossed out or disturbed by most episodes. Yes, it’s a comedy, and rightfully, if you don’t have the stomach for South Park, don’t watch it; to some extent, this also applies to the fan works which explore canonical dark tones. We also know Matt and Trey can take it too far and have in the past. S15E1 just is one of those personal thresholds for me, although this post isn't really about the morality of the episode.

Anyway, there’s a big argument about Kyle’s scars representing his overcoming of trauma, etc. but I disagree with this defense on why they should be there. If we genuinely wanted to talk about Kyle overcoming trauma, we would talk about the primary source of his trauma: how Kyle, even in more recent plots, is constantly harassed for being Jewish. We would also allow for more open conversation about antisemitism in the fandom, especially in the form of fan art. Kyle’s religion is irrelevant to how he wound up in the situation of S15E1. Therefore, the “overcoming trauma” point feels dishonest and inaccurate to me, especially considering the episode is just one long joke (vs South Park storylines which are more serious). It’d be fairer just to claim drawing it for fun.

For comparison: Butters has an eye scar; this is widely accepted within fanon. I have depicted it too. However, the optics of giving a blond-haired Roman Catholic white boy a minimal scar over his eye is way different than giving prominent scars over essentially half of a Jewish character’s face. Plus, it’s fair to say that an eye scar is usually regarded as a “beneficial” character design element regardless of origin.

Butters’ scar, while it would be a traumatizing injury, was accidental. Indeed, the conceit of “Good Times With Weapons” is the shitty way Butters is treated by the people around him. Kyle’s scars, on the other hand, would be from purposeful torture, and it’s lately been depicted not just as two sutures on the sides of his mouth but as large amounts of scar tissue shaped like an eerie smile. If it's to be scientifically realistic, then fine, but by that logic Butters should be blind in one eye or even more likely missing it, and other characters would be visibly scarred in different ways as well.

In addition, Butters’ appearance is widely and commonly depicted as “cute” - for lack of a better word - so adding a comparatively small and pinkish scar to a generally positively-regarded character (at least in terms of conventional appearances) is not the same as adding highly exaggerated scars to a Jewish character that fans generally don’t seem to think of as “soft” or even approachable the same way they see Butters. I draw Kyle with his kidney surgery scar, so I hope I am making it clear that scars are fine on characters. Of course, facial scars are very different. Still, when you stretch the scar tissue into an uncanny smile over half the face of a minority character from a one-time torture porn gag, it’s fair for people to be upset.

From my point of view, it’s off-putting because it’s about how a Jewish person (myself) sees fandom treat a Jewish character in particular; one who is frequently on the end of vitriol from within canon (Cartman’s abuse, most often) AND fans (that is: a whole subset of fans who think Kyle is cruel, heartless, and manipulative, and stress it) and it is arguably a symptom of something more insidious and deeply alarming than folks might want to admit.

I’ll be the first to say that Kyle’s canon features deserve faithful depiction, even within stylization. Moreover, facial scars don’t carry inherent personality traits in real life. But fictional character design does not exist in a vacuum, and some people are virtually insisting that Kyle be as aggressively caricatured as possible. Please remember that for centuries Jews have been (subjectively but societally) associated with ugliness, weakness, dirt, and disease. Be mindful when portraying Kyle as extremely blemished and essentially inferior or ostracized. It’s not because facial scars are these negative traits: it’s about what they mean in context to certain characters. We all internally moralize what we dislike. As such though, it’s troubling to observe that this fandom scrambles to talk about why “feminizing” Kyle is hurtful to Jewish people, yet there’s no such section defending it as there is one defending Kyle's stigmatization.

#text #pardon my edits

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citadelofmythoughts · 28 days

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Why do so many people in this fandom hate the idea of yang in a suit, when it comes to the other girls I see nothing but excitement when there's art of them in a suit, but I always see complaints when yang gets drawn in a suit. That or artists will draw yang in a dress simply because they think it would be "stereotypical" for her to be in a suit. Its fustrating honestly. I remember when v7 was airing, that one week people thought the atlas ball was happening I kept seeing posts advocating for rwb in suits but not for yang, for her all I saw was those "broke: yang in a suit woke: insert other team rwby girl, in a suit" posts sorry for the rant it's just kinda frustrating to have it repeatedly confirmed by crwby that yang is masc/ the most masculine of the team and yet the fandom continues to ignore or undermine the little masc women rep we have in the show :(. It reminds me of how even though bumbleby is canon, people in the fandom still want other blake/yang wlw ships to be canon instead

Hey you people who hate Yang wearing a suit, show yourselves, I just wanna talk....

But seriously, I don't know how many more times I can repeat it (not aimed at you, anon) it's the lesbophobia.

Yang in a suit forces them to confront the fact that she's a masc lesbian.

It's the same with the wanting other wlw ships instead of Bumbleby. Those ships are fiction. They're not the reality. (Yes I know this doesn't apply to all FB or other non-canon Yang/Blake ship fans but it IS true of a lot of them. Also don't get pedantic with me, I know it's all fiction but only one ship is CANON)

#yang xiao long #bumbleby

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azquine · 11 months

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Can I get something on the JoanFK tag that ISN'T just complaining? It is ok to be feeling shit that things went badly in the show, but do you have to tag that negativity on the ship? The negativity is all that there is to see whenever I try to interact with the show and it's making me feel horrible.

I've been in far worse fandoms, and they didn't make me feel this bad.

It all feels so puritanical, like you have forgotten what a teen drama parody entails. Did you forget that they were ALL assholes in the first season who backstabbed and did shitty things to eachother for their own selfish gain? You are applying pretty strict rules of morality onto characters who intrinsically must break those rules to allow the narratives of their genre to move.

This was a short kiss, the result of feelings that JFK and Harriet had actively been trying to avoid for the sake of Joan. This could have been resolved by open communication, but that's not how either drama shows OR stupid hormonal teens work. After making this mistake, they did the most responsible and moral thing they could have and confessed it literally within the same episode as soon as Joan would not, you know, DIE as a result.

All things considered, it wasn't a secret relationship, it wasn't sex, it wasn't a long term secret held until it accidentally spills out and ruins everything. It could have been SO much worse, it was none of my worst fears, and I'm honestly relieved a kiss was where it stopped. And I am also really glad they confessed to quickly because I HATE liar revealed plots more than ANYTHING and I probably would have stopped watching. If they were going to do this plotline it was the best case scenario for me.

And do you know what is even better? What should be the bare minimum but is actually pretty rare in dramas from my experience? Neither of them tried to mitigate Joan's reaction, to say she was overreacting or to dance around the issue to make it sound better beyond a truthful 'we felt nothing'. Joan was allowed the space to fully process the information and her emotions, even if through a montage. And damn I wish I saw that more often.

As for those saying JFK would need a redemption for what he has done- does being open and honest about his wrongdoings not do that pretty succinctly? Beyond having not done it at all what else do you want? Pretty puritanical to want him to suffer before he can be forgiven.

And granted, Harriet got plenty of unjustified hate before she had even done anything, but post-kiss most of the discussion and anger I have seen has been directed solely at JFK. Harriet was part of that kiss too, knowingly going against her friend. Why is the romantic relationship deemed worse to betray? Both of them did a stupid thing together, and fixed it together.

And I'm not saying Joan putting all the consequence on Abe is justified, he didn't do shit wrong either, he tried to keep his friend alive in a tricky situation.

All of your feelings are valid, and I do see why the dominant opinion is what it is. Cheating is an awful thing to do and you should not be with someone you do not trust, I cannot refute that.

Yet at the same time, I felt it was important to put forward some differing points that I had been having. This show will not be enjoyable if we hold a position of being negative and moralistic. To some extent there has to be an acceptance that this is a fiction and moral failings are often part of a narrative structure.

(And while many of you have legitimate critiques on the execution of the show, it feels like some of you are taking the 'thing done badly because I don't like it' route)

I really hope nobody takes this as me trying to enforce cheating or to say that JFK and Harriet kissing was ok. It was shitty of them to do in the first place, but they are not morally irredeemable. Teen do stupid bad thing is not new. I'm also not interested in having an argument over this, I get caught up far too easily in that so I won't be answering any replies or asks. It is fine if you disagree, I'm here to propose a counterpoint.

Sorry if this was repetitive or lengthy. It just felt like I had to get it out there despite it being the early hours of the morning.

#clone high #joanfk #clone high jfk #clone high joan #rant #ramble

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beanghostprincess · 3 months

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Why is shanks/buggy so underrated in this side of fandom? It’s much more loved in Japanese one, one of the most popular for shanks. I feel like this one prefers other mlm options for him and I don’t get it. It got better after OPLA I think but still. Sorry for my English!

Oh! This is actually such an interesting question. I was talking about this the other day and I came to a conclusion with my friend about this. Basically, there are a lot of things to take into consideration here. The screentime, the age of the characters, the chemistry, how they're perceived by the fandom and canonically, etc etc etc.

The first thing I thought about was the screentime, honestly. Shanks and Buggy grew up together and they have a deep bond, however, we've only seen that through flashbacks (one in quite literally episode 8 of the anime, another one in Wano that isn't even about them and they're just side characters in this flashback, and in chapter 1082 of the manga. But it's not even a proper flashback because we already saw that when Shanks talks to Whitebeard about Buggy, it's just Buggy's interpretation of it) and we only have like one scene of them together that isn't even two minutes long. So, quite obviously you'd think "well, the ship isn't as popular as other ships because they barely have any screentime" and I think it's correct but also not quite. And also, this would also have to apply to the Japanese fandom at the end of the day. Fandoms don't give a single fuck about screen time if the chemistry is right, really, but there's always this factor, y'know. Lawlu has less screentime than Zolu and yet it's more popular somehow because people absolutely love their dynamic. Then, if you stop to think about it, both Satosugu (Jjk) and Soukoku (Bsd) have the same dynamic and concept as Shuggy, but they're by far the most popular ships in their fandoms. They're basically the same ships but Jjk and Bsd give them proper development and story because they're shorter series. One Piece is a long show and we still have many things to see, even if we know it's gonna end soon, so I guess that we'll still have to wait to see more of Shuggy. Once we do, I'm sure it'll become more popular. Also, Shanks' personality is very diverse because he's all mysterious and all, so I kind of understand why people don't want to make content because they still don't have him figured out.

But then again, screen time isn't really the problem. It's just one of the factors. If they had more screen time, they'd be more popular for sure, yes, but it's not exactly what makes them less popular in this side of the fandom. Otherwise, it'd be equally as popular on the other sides too. The Japanese side of fandoms is different from this one and tbh they often don't take into consideration things like cancel culture and proship discourse or the standard beauty regarding age because they just post whatever they want and scroll past what they don't like (god I fucking wish we were like that because I am so done with these things). Besides, isn't Buggy like a very beloved character over there, aside from Oda's favorite? At least from what I've seen, they take his character way more seriously than this side of the fandom does, honestly. And it bothers me because he's such a complex and great character, and people never see it because they use him either for memes or to keep saying "omggg turns out the clown is hot!! Can you believe I want to fuck a clow-" yes, Samantha, we know you want to fuck the clown. It's not weird. It's not new. Do you even like the character, at least, or you're just using him to say how kinky and quirky you are? (And I don't even care about the sexualization of characters because, again, fictional characters are fictional characters and you don't have to take everything so seriously. I have tons of characters I don't like that much but only stan because I find them hot and that's alright. But damn, it bothers me sometimes).

Anyway, with this, I wanna say that there are other things to have in mind when talking about this.

Recently (I know it's not exactly new but in fandom years? Recently) there has been a huge thing surrounding the term "old men yaoi". People are so down bad for middle-aged men and they see two of them together and they instantly go "omg they're soo married" but that's- That's it? That's just it. They don't even ship them, they just find the concept of older men hot because "omg he's such a dilf" and they want to fuck both of them. But they never end up doing anything with it. They try to be so groundbreaking like "ohh I am SO woke by shipping these two old men! See? Breaking stereotypes!" because both irl and online, age has always been a very stigmatized thing. Apparently you can't be in a fandom if you're older than 25 because then you're weird, and if there's an actress older than 50 she's instantly useless for the industry.

What I want to say with this is that most people in the fandom are young. They're young and they like attractive, young, hot people and they don't want old, unconventionally attractive men. They don't want them unless it's to give a "hot take" and to be super progressive and woke. Do you know what they like? They like Dilfs. They like Shanks because he's conventionally attractive and good with kids and he's the standard for a Dilf. Because he's hot and mysterious but also silly and quirky and "he's almost forty that is so hot something something daddy kink". And they don't want to see him fucking someone his age because God forbid this man has a personality outside being a Dilf. Younger people in the fandom constantly read y/n fics regarding Shanks because they want him to fuck them and not Buggy. And they can't project in these old men, so they publicly say "oh, Shanks and Buggy are so married" because it's just a fact the fandom made clear, but they don't really like the content. Because liking Buggy sexually, apparently, is just so weird. Or as a character. Nobody wants to say their favorite character is the failguy clown. It's a hot take when you say that Buggy is hot because people keep being all weird about it when... Uh... He's- He's just a clown. Guys. It's not weird. Or bad. Who raised you to think that? God, I find Monet extremely hot and she's half-bird. Could we please normalize these things? They're fictional characters. And also, stop reducing Buggy to his jokes or the fact that he's a clown because his character is GREAT and complex and it just bothers me so much.

This makes me think about this whole "background couple" thing. Which are basically couples that are canon or that are so popular and obvious that people, instead of making content for them (because why would you make content for a canon couple?) just place them in the background instead. There are so many fanfics in which Shuggy is a background couple. Or studies in which, instead of analyzing them, they're used only for parallelisms. This happens with, idk, Saboala? Frobin? Yamace? People don't like couples that everybody agrees on. They don't like m/f ships because they can't be woke!!!!! And queer!!!! (when they easily could but whatever). They don't like ships that everybody likes because!!!!!! They're canon already and why would you write about them???? And so, Shuggy stays a bit more as a side couple instead. For being old and unconventionally unattractive and not having much screentime, but being extremely popular. Not in a "content" way, but in a "knowledge" way. Even the general audience thinks their bond is crucial to the story, c'mon.

One of the differences that this side of the fandom has with the Japanese one, as I mentioned before, is the cancel culture and proship discourse thing. They just don't have that concept. And that's perfect, honestly, I wish we could just scroll past what we don't like too and live peacefully because the discourse is getting tiring. And also you have to admit that, because of the anti propaganda going around, now fandoms have turned into the most puritan thing in the world. Beware! Sex! Age difference between fictional characters that have a consensual and healthy and mature relationship! Oh! God forbid teenagers have sex with people their age! Ohmygodjustshutup. And so, Shuggy isn't a problematic ship. Not even close. But inside the OP world, people do say they are brothers. They keep talking about each other like that, too. And I don't even think it's the typical "we say they're like brothers so you don't think they're gay because they're both guys and guys can't kiss" (I am having flashbacks from the IT fandom). They do have the same parents. Like- We all agree Shanks and Buggy were both raised by Roger and Rayleigh and they consider them, if not their dads, parental figures at least. Right? And you're aware that doesn't make it incest, right? Both things can coexist. Foster families are a thing. Lots of people who grew up together and consider the same people their parental figures end up dating because they don't see each other as siblings. Well, most people don't see it this way and hear the word "brother" and run from it like it's a fucking virus. The Japanese side of the fandom doesn't give a fuck because they're fictional and because they're y'know, not brothers? And even if they were, cancel culture and proship discourse is so fucking stupid to them because they follow the "don't like don't look" thing. But on this side of the fandom, a lot of people see them as brothers and the other half sees them as a divorced couple and apparently nobody knows how to fucking read this manga and have a proper fandom experience without jumping to each other's throats at the minimum disagreement.

So, to summarize: People on this side of the fandom don't like Shuggy THAT much and it isn't such a popular ship in comparison to the Japanese side, because young people don't like older men together, they don't focus on unconventionally attractive characters, are afraid of any little possibility of cancelation, and also, well, Shuggy doesn't have much screentime anyway so there's not much we can do with that.

#oh shit this is long #and i think i got a bit carried away #but yeah i am surprised the ship isn't more famous tbh #also have in mind that people read the manga but a huge side of the fandom are anime only and chapter 1082 is quite important for shuggy #and please PLEASE if you start discourse right now for the proship/anti thing i am going to jump off a bridge do not do that it's dumb #i got a bit angry at the end i am sorry #one piece #shuggy

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