#they try with the greek | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

snazzy-specter · 2 years

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Greek myth where there's these twins and one's father is mortal while the other is a god, but nobody knows which is which. like the twins look roughly the same, act pretty similar (mostly as in one's not braver/stupider than the other), just kinda hang out and like idk work the farm together so nobody can tell which one is a demigod. someone tries to attack one twin to see what happens and the other always comes to save their ass.

Bonus Points: Hermes thinks this is the funniest thing and helps them, maybe even gives them ambrosia so they'll both be full gods when they die. even more bonus points if he also doesn't know which is which and doesn't care because it's hilarious.

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sodamnbored · 10 months

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In New Rome Pre-HoO:

Jason: Here, brought you something.

Nico, confused: A yogurt?

Jason, kindly: I wanted to make you feel more at home here.

Nico: Why would a yogurt make me feel at home?

Jason, tapping the lid: It’s Greek-style.

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singing-graverobber · 5 months

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I think one of the most beautiful things about learning an ancient or dead language, is the pure humanity thereof.

You could do or learn something more functional, sure, but you're taking time to understand the essence of a people long left behind in time.

These people, now dead for centuries or even millennia, wrote things down and in doing so, said:

"I was here, remember me"

And here, eras later, we take time to decipher, read, and understand it, to say into the void of their existence:

"We see you, we know you, you are still alive."

#history #history quotes #latin #greek #archaeology #languages #im just trying to motivate myself for my latin exam tomorrow

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itseghost · 9 months

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kiss from an angel of death

i really hope 2 finish this painting one day but i just have not been able to get around to it even though i do like how its turning out haha

(yes, i know than's costume should be flipped so what i drew on the right is on the left, i plan on flipping the composition and fixing stuff from there, bc i dont want the wing pauldron covering their faces teehee)

#hades #hades game #thanzag #thanatos #zagreus #hades fanart #digital painting #greek mythology #my art #artists on tumblr #itseart #i reaaaally want to finish it #i planned this as a print initially too haha #wanted to try painting something more classical looking #but i think i just need better reference for the lighting #wil probably. look at leyendecker tbh #plus they are so special 2 me

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sunshines-child · 2 months

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Goddess of Wisdom *music*

#My Athena design is meant to look human but not quite #Like a great power is trying to mold itself into a human #but something makes it look off. Too powerful. Too perfect. The body strange and not really to human proportions #Also can you tell I don’t know how to draw owls #🦉#athena #epic the musical #the odyssey #tagamemnon #greek gods #pjo #odyseussy #odysseus

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doodlerose · 2 months

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#agamemnon #menelaus #patroclus #digital art #I learned that Agamemnon and Menalaus was exiled and thought this was funny #The funniest part about this is Peleus seeing this and being like yesss #What a good influence for my son #It was weird to try and draw young Agamemnon or Menelaus without a beard #greek mythology #classics #ancient greece #the illiad #greek myth art

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hyprfxtdbstrd · 3 months

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I'm seeing everyone pointing out the possible issues with Epic the Musical's deviation from the original story of Circe and Odysseus, and as someone who's studied Ancient Greece/ancient Greek myths a bit, I wanted to say some stuff about it. This will be a bit of a long one, so apologies for my rambling!

Note that I'm not trying to shit on SA survivor's perspectives and (completely valid) arguments. I'm just trying to offer some context surrounding the original myth and how it fits (or rather, doesn't fit) with a modern audience. If I'm wrong with any of this, feel free to call me out! Criticize the shit out of me! I like learning about Greek culture and myths and would 100% love to hear other perspectives on this.

So, a few points about Ancient Greek myths to kind of explain the context around Circe and Odysseus:

Greek myths generally did not have good views/depictions of women. Women were almost always depicted as conniving, selfish, sexually insatiable creatures. To largely summarize the process within actual Greek society, women had three/four stages in their life: child, dangerous/wild virgin (after first menstruation), married woman (whose wildness was tamed by her husband), and then a "real" woman (a mother). There are a few deviations from the "evil" trope, the most prominent of which being Penelope herself—she's basically the ideal Greek wife, staying loyal to her husband for 20 years and all that.

Adultery only applied to women. Husbands cheating on their wives wasn't merely tolerated, but expected. Marital sex wasn't seen as enjoyable, rather something that had to be done for the sake of reproduction and continuing the bloodline/securing inheritance. Men cheated on their wives with various kinds of prostitutes, concubines, mistresses, etc, but sleeping with unmarried women (that weren't specifically prostitutes) or married women was looked down upon. Women didn't have this same standard. They could only sleep with their husbands, hell, their husbands were pretty much the only men they could even interact with (excluding family, obviously).

The original myth has Hermes very plainly lay out how Odysseus' confrontation with Circe will go: Odysseus will eat the moly, draw his sword at her, she'll proposition him, and Hermes directly tells Odysseus to accept. Basically a "sleep with her if you want your men to live" situation. (See this post for more specifics on this).

So, let's apply this to Epic: The Musical. Here's some reasons I think may explain the Circe myth being changed:

The Greek "women being evil" stereotype is... problematic. While I 100% understand that it's important to acknowledge male victims of SA, I don't think the original myth was focusing on Odysseus being a victim—I saw it more of an emphasis on Circe being a sexually selfish woman, as all Greek women were believed to be. Changing Circe to be less conniving and evil deviates from the concerning Greek stereotype.

The SA in the myth is not actually very clearly SA. Yes, with a modern perspective, it absolutely is sexual coercion, but for Greeks, not so much. It made sense to them that sex could be transactional. It's already been established that Epic, while still generally accurate to the original myth, does change things relating to morality/themes in order to better align with modern Western ideas (i.e. OG Odysseus not being as remorseful and merciful, as that was expected of a Greek hero, but Epic Odysseus having more empathy because that's more modernly heroic). If something from the original myth doesn't translate well into modern culture, then it's understandable to want to change or omit it.

In the case that the original Circe myth wasn't SA (I'm not saying one is more right than the other, I'm just covering all the bases), then it wouldn't even constitute as cheating. Like I described earlier, it was perfectly acceptable and expected for men to sleep with women that weren't their wives. Plus, being a goddess, she's already kinda exempt from being blamed if Odysseus slept with her—only women are ever really blamed for sleeping with (or being SAed by) gods, and even then, their husbands sometimes don't even give a shit. But modernly, we would not see it that way. To us, it's not societally acceptable for a married man to sleep with another woman (without his wife's consent, at least). While Ancient Greeks viewed Odysseus as a good (or at least okay) husband, a modern audience wouldn't. Making Odysseus loyal to Penelope and not sleeping with other women (assuming this wasn't SA, but again that's one interpretation) makes him the good, loyal, empathic, modernly heroic man that Epic is clearly aiming for. Repeating my last point: If something from the original myth doesn't translate well into modern culture, then it's understandable to want to change or omit it.

Applying modern perspectives on Ancient Greek society and mythology isn't worth it. Like, we all joke about Ancient Greece being super gay, but they didn't actually like gay men. Homosexuality was literally only acceptable when it was between a young man and a prepubescent boy (it was called pederasty if you want to know more) or between women (they only considered penetrative sex to be 'real' sex so they didn't really care what women did with other women). Y'know the Hades and Persephone story? Like, the original one with the kidnapping? Yeah, that was normal. The myth of Demeter and Persephone is tragic, yes, but it was so normal that wedding ceremonies often included references/recreations of it! Girls got married off ASAP after their first menstruation to men of at least 30 years old. We don't tolerate that shit today (for the most part, at least)! But it was normal in Ancient Greece. Applying modern rules and standards to ancient culture just does not work.

Anyways, I'll shut up now! I'm gonna go keep listening to The Circe Saga lmao

EDIT: there is good criticism in the reblogs of this post that adds more perspective and corrects some of my generalizations/insights!!

#can you tell im a history major #seriously tho im not trying to shit on the opinions of SA survivors talking about this #the greeks were just kinda fucked up #greek mythology #epic the musical #odysseus #the odyssey #circe #circe saga #the circe saga #hermes #epic the circe saga #ancient greece #history

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anotherpjofan · 1 year

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I hate the way the Greek campers were viewed in hoo like these literal kids who made up a grand total of 40 (maybe 100 max with hunters + party ponies + satyrs) defeated an army that consisted of hundreds possibly thousands of monsters on their own including a couple of rouge titans and Kronos who was their leader. And won. Don’t get me wrong the Romans destroyed the Palace and all which was probably filled with their remaining resources but there were hundreds of them including adults who had retired after a decade of experience. And the army they fought was probably smaller cause everyone was off at New York in the main fight so give the Greek campers their due respect cause not only did they win, they pulled off the impossible

#the greek campers would annihilate new rome without trying btw #its just a fact #i mean if they wanted to they're more likely to raid their cafeteria and leave #pjo #percy jackson #hoo #heroes of olympus #pjo hcs #pjo funny #annabeth chase #pjo headcanon #pjo hc #pjo headcanons #dark percy #jason grace #reyna avila ramirez arellano #grover underwood #hoo headcanon #pjo analysis

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writer-room · 4 months

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Listen when people say they want Percy to go on a villain arc most times I see it as they want him to go dark, want him to start murdering, maiming, going full Luke, etc. And I support that. If anyone deserves to kill people it's this kid.

However, let us be realistic for a moment, because I quite like the other alternative. Villain arc Percy usually entails "he's finally had enough of the Gods bullshit & will do things his own way". Let us think on this. What would Percy most likely do in this situation? Would it really be murder right off the bat?

I think he'd be the pettiest, annoying little shit there is. And because one can't usually threaten the Gods in a way that truly matters, but they can make them sweat really hard.

This goes beyond ignoring their calls and leaving them on read. He refuses to give food offerings unless it's the nastiest shit known to man. Bribes the cyclops into hucking huge objects up Mount Olympus before they all scurry off. Finds the olive tree Athena gave to Athens, and while he wouldn't have the heart to destroy it, he'd for sure rip off a branch & mail it to her (Annabeth nearly had to put them in witness protection).

Eventually it gets to the point he has Nico on speed-dial and offers him a shit ton of fast food & a 'get out of Percy's quest bullshit free' pass if he could hop into the Underworld and yoink up some annoying spirits or dead monsters to piss off the Gods. When the Gods get pissed at him Percy just silently pulls out some safe-for-demigods phone like "hang on I wanna see how many happy meals I owe Nico for bringing Typhon back up". They know he is not bluffing.

Could the Gods counteract him? Yeah, sure, Hera gave him amnesia and it was like 90% effective for a while. However, he kind of went off the rails, everyone else went off the rails, and then they had even more Roman nonsense to deal with. If anything it both solved but also made even more problems. And a much angrier Percy. So, frankly, they're very confident it could work, but they're a little worried about what the aftermath would be.

Ares suggests just killing him. Poseidon takes offense to this. Artemis scoffs and says even Ares couldn't beat him. Everyone stops for a moment. The question is not asked verbally. But it is seen in the darting eyes and shifting seats.

Can they kill Percy Jackson?

Well, sure, they must be able to. He's a powerful kid, no doubt, with powerful allies, but they are Gods. Of course they can kill him. So that's not the real question, they wouldn't dare really entertain such a thing to ever confirm if it was true, but this is rather the layer of frosting hiding the real atrocity of a cake underneath it.

What will they lose trying to kill Percy Jackson?

What will remain standing in the face of some 18-year-old who lived one of the hardest knocks of life, loves so much it makes them sick, is so completely unaware of his own strength not even they know its full extent, and currently has absolutely zero fucks to give about the end of a reign longer than he will ever understand?

They decide to quietly shut the lid on that whole fiasco and let Percy do whatever he wants.

Unfortunately, they can't exactly ignore everyone else. And everyone else is who Percy cares about the most. So, think of it more like leaving a grenade in a locked box in the attic. Just hope and pray you've moved out before something gets curious and starts rummaging around up there.

#percy jackson #pjo #percy jackson and the olympians #rick riordan #dark percy jackson #ideas #talk #text post #greek gods #annabeth chase #nico di angelo #typhon #pjo headcanon #to be entirely clear percy is still someone who did just like manipulate bob into murder #and poisoned Akhlys thru her tears fully intending to kill #among other things. hes still that person. however hes also the guy who helps leo make some weird machine #and they try to test its flight by riding it off a cliff over the lake w bamboleo by gipsy kings blasting #hes still totally that guy (under stress but i say that not as an excuse just as an 'he doesnt do it on a whim. but he still Can')#but hes also like. stupid. & u gotta get him at the right Vibe before he starts to get like Really concerningly murderous about things #usually hes the regular amount of murderous like most halfbloods are bc they deal w too much on a regular basis #i think that a percy turning 'dark' would b him looking the gods in the eye & saying 'no lol. also u suck. L + ratio.'#& then when they try to fight him on it only THEN does he while still holding eye contact begin to make the ocean levels rise #specifically targeting important places to those gods & havin his ocean buddies destroy the place #u wanna dance god boys? he will spare humanity on some rock but he Will destroy everything else #he is one-shotting monsters bc hes not dealing w this. some bs happens & he just grabs some monster by the throat & makes them spill #if that doesnt work he just walks into olympus w pandoras box 2.0 & starts to open it until the gods will talk to him. they start talkin #bs again. he slowly opens it again. they talk. he shuts it. they spew more bs. he opens it a little faster. they give in #dark percy to me is someone who doesnt DEFAULT to violence but who realized 'oh i can just do whatever i want' & found that gods react #best when its violent. he only does this w gods & monsters bc he chooses fastest route to get what he wants. but he recognizes violence Bad #so he just looks for the most receptive response. & then he abuses it relentlessly. but he also hates the gods. come stop him btch u wont

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wolfythewitch · 7 months

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youtube

no longer you

#art #animatic #epic the musical #odysseus #eurylochus #the odyssey #greek mythology #epic changes some details but i did try to include references to stuff in the odyssey haha #Youtube

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gynoidgearhead · 2 months

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tradwife is a neogender for mostly cis people. change my mind

#i am not sure how serious i am about this but it's also just like. extremely funny that cis people are trying to earn #like prestige classes of cisgender heteronormative genders.#why yes tell me how you're an alpha sigma sigma male. tell me about your greek letters and your wolves and your hot take on masculinity #why yes tell me about how you're not like all the other girls but only in a way that only bolsters and sanctifies your femininity especiall #like i'm not being mean here it's just. extremely funny and really demonstrates to me that they are not that far from getting trans people #like. i think a lot of modern transphobia is cognitive dissonance because so many of them are so close to getting it. yet so far.#it's like. cis rebound.#gender #shitposting

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jojotier · 8 months

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the one thing that pisses me off about House of Leaves is that that play where the Minotaur is actually a disabled and disfigured son locked up in the labyrinth, as sweet and intelligent as he is despairing, focusing on King Minos slowly realizing his son has never been the problem and that this child he scorned as a beast is the most human a being can be, and just as he was on the verge of figuring out how to undo his own lies and bring his son into the sunlight, he doomed his son to death at the hands of a drunken thug proclaiming to look for glory, isn't real. it's not a real play! wha tthe fuck!!!!

#house of leaves #things i've read #the minotaur #fuck all these '''modern greek retellings''' if i dont see a 'the minotaur is a metaphor for the able-bodied ostracizing and demonizing #'the disabled because making them into social pariahs and outcasts is easier than trying to give them the dignity of a human being' take #im going to eat something

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genericpuff · 2 months

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I wonder why christian misrepresentation are rarely talked about if compared to other religion misrepresentation. Like, I've seen people really vocal about Greek myths misrepresentation in LO and such (and it's valid because it's a culture and religion) but I rarely saw the same thing with christian even though there are many media who use christian religion innacurately, to the point where it comes off as using it as an aesthetic and not a proper religion.

Is it because of rampant religious trauma especially in western world? No ulterior motives on this question. I'm not a christian and yet I'm curious about this. I apologize if this sounds harsh.

I obviously don't have The Answer(tm) to this but personally speaking (and I'm about to get VERY personal here so take this with MOUNTAINS OF SALT), I think it's just the obvious - Christian mythology is one of the most well-documented and strongly protected out of virtually any other religion on the planet. Especially here in the West, it's commonplace for kids to go to Sunday school, for couples to have Christian weddings even if they're not practising Christians themselves, even the American anthem references the Christian God. It's simply not as easy to 'misrepresent' it because the representation is written into our very fabric of society. Even Greece itself is primarily made up of Orthodox Christians.

So anyone that does 'misrepresent' it are either completely mislead hardcore Christians, or people who are doing it intentionally, such as with the intent to make a parody of it or to deconstruct it through a different context or whatever have you. And of course, people will still get mad at those things, if you're implying that people aren't vocal about Christian misrepresentation then frankly IDK what to tell you there LOL If you want a contextual example in the realm of webtoons, Religiously Gay was dragged to hell and back during its launch for having a very crude and insulting depiction of St. Michael, and frankly, yeah I don't disagree because what the fuck is this-

(like at best it's just terrible character design lmao that said, there's also plenty else to criticize Religiously Gay for, including its fetishy representation of gay relationships and the fact that it's still just the "naive person who looks and acts like a child hooks up with mean person in a position of power" trope, blech, but the character design is definitely the first thing you notice)

There are even plenty of hardcore Christians who will deadass claim "misrepresentation" over things that ARE factually correct but they just haven't read the actual Bible and simply cherry pick what works for their own agenda. And of course those people are routinely called out by people like myself who know for a fact that Jesus wouldn't have promoted the war crimes that many modern day Christians are committing and justifying today. So it really depends on the definition of "misrepresentation" here.

The issue specifically with LO and Rachel that I personally call her out for (and many others) is that she's called herself a "folklorist" and claimed she's so much more knowledgeable on Greek myth than anyone else, while making a complete mockery of the original mythologies while not being honest about her intent as to whether LO is actually supposed to be a legitimate retelling OR a parody (because it sure acts like the latter more than the former, but she still seems to expect us to take it seriously and consider her knowledge of Greek myth superior?) Which leads to a lot of her teenage audience claiming shit like "Persephone went down to the underworld willingly" and "Apollo did assault Persephone in the original myths actually" and the classic "why would Lore Olympus lie or make up fake myths?"

You just can't pull off this extent of erasure with Christian mythology because we have a whole ass book of it that's been preserved, sold on shelves, and systematically integrated into society for thousands of years. Of course, there are people who will still try their damned best to twist the Bible to match their own bigotry with the whole "Jesus hates gays" bullshit (he would never), but it's met with equal amounts of 'misrepresentation' that are actually fully well-read and are intentionally subverting and changing things to either critique, parody, or restore the original intent of a lot of stories in the Bible without all the manufactured right-wing crap.

Greek myth, on the other hand, has some stories that are well preserved, and others, not so much. And in the modern day outside of the poems and hymns, you'll also rarely, if ever, see anyone use stories from Greek myth to ostracize, torture, and murder other people. "Misrepresenting Christianity" is more often done by actual Christians who are using the Bible to commit hate crimes than the people who have actually read the Bible and are just taking creative liberties with it for the sake of deconstructing / parodying / analyzing / subverting it. Veggie Tales "misrepresents" Christian stories because obviously Moses wasn't a fucking cucumber lmao but it still accomplishes its goal by retelling Christian stories in a way that's fun and educational for children.

By comparison (on the whole, I'm not comparing LO to Veggie Tales LMAO) LO just isn't clear in its intentions beyond Rachel's initial statements that she was trying to "deconstruct" the myths, while labelling herself as a folklorist. Therefore, I'm going to criticize how she does it because the way she's done it up until now has been very mishandled and has resulted in a lot of misinterpretations of the myths simply for the sake of fandom. And yes, these people exist in Christian media as well - they're called TV evangelists.

And that's my (very heavy) two cents.

#here's your reminder that missionaries are colonizers #find me the Hellenistic pagans knocking on people's doors asking them if they want to hear about the glory of Aphrodite lmao #honestly it also depends on what you're surrounding yourself with #obv if you take part in the LO fandom and avoid what's going on in the christian world then what you experience and see will seem skewed #like even i could be very wrong in my opinion based on my own experiences as someone who lives in the west-#maybe there ARE pagans knocking on doors and using greek myth to commit hate crimes #so yeah we all gotta try not to fall for survorship bias #there are plenty of stories of people getting mad about christian mythology and its misrepresentations on BOTH sides #lo critical #lore olympus critical #anti lore olympus #webtoon critical #ama #ask me anything #anon ama #anon ask me anything

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my--moon · 3 months

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If Athena has children through her thoughts, therefore needing no actual intercourse to make a child (meaning no need for a dick). How do we know that there isn't a Athena child out there with a biological mortal mother and Athena as their parents???

An Athena child with two biological mothers.