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fire-fira · 1 month

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IDK if you've been keeping up with the Trujillo Blue Beetle run, but they put Jaime with some random Horizon girl named Oo'li and it really feels like some half-assed attempt to prevent him from ever falling in love with Khaji, I don't know, maybe I'm running on some insane troll logic here, but the writers really put Jaime with a girl who's connected in some way to the Reach, when Khaji Da is RIGHT THERE! Do not ignore please, I really wanna hear your opinion on this.

While I will agree that the relationship with Oo'li feels shoe-horned (and that detail honestly isn't helped by the breakneck narrative pacing, which may be reflective of a time crunch those involved with this most recent run might be dealing with), I think it's important to step back and take stock of some things.

The vast majority of comic writers-- and presumed comic readers-- aren't likely to even consider Jaime/Khaji Da as a ship because they're sharing a body. For better or worse, there are a looooooot of people out there (both in fandom and outside of it) who can't or haven't wrapped their minds around the concept of a ship where one character is the host body to the other; if they've put any thought into that kind of ship at all, they may have difficulty conceptualizing how a romantic/queerplatonic/committed relationship of that type can even work when the characters involved technically can't do things like hold hands, kiss, or sit across from each other while having a candlelit dinner. (Yes I realize that example may be a little cliche in this instance, but I think it's the best way to convey one of the big stumbling blocks for some writers when it comes to this kind of ship.)

It's fandom where these concepts have really been hashed out and played with, so of course as fans we're going to see the obvious potential and the ways it could work, but writers for officially published works generally should not read fanfiction-- especially of anything they're actively working on-- because doing otherwise invites the possibility that someone might feel their own work is being stolen and repurposed by a company to make money, which can lead to a lawsuit. Ergo, if they're not already familiar with the concept of how such a ship could work (or they haven't come to that concept on their own), then the chances of them even thinking to do so in their writing for DC is slim.

And for as much as Eddie Brock/Venom has put forward the idea of a host/symbiont ship more broadly in the public imagination, that reach is still limited by who would be interested in seeing those movies, and if those people were or are able/willing to recognize the host/symbiont ship as even being a possibility. And even if they did, Khaji Da is a dramatically different character than Venom in temperament and personality; we also have no guarantee that anyone looking at the movie/various-tv-series Khaji Da has been in will think to consider Khaji Da as a fully realized character instead of an AI-that-is-maybe-'sub-human'-in-personhood-but-more-advanced-than-anything-we-have-and-so-should-be-respected-as-'kind of'-an-individual (and the siri-voice in the movie probably won't have helped change that perspective). The point is, with that dramatic character difference, it might not even occur to any of them that Jaime/Khaji Da as a ship would be believable or that the characters could even have the potential motivation to share that mutual interest.

We also have no clue if Trujillo or anyone else currently working on Blue Beetle have seen any of the Venom movies to even plant the idea of a host/symbiont ship in their heads. We literally have no idea if they're even aware of the concept. And even if they are, they're in the business of trying to sell comics. I don't know the ins-and-outs of the comic industry by any means, but I think it's fair to assume that introducing a host/symbiont ship in canon might be a risky venture-- even without the breakneck narrative pacing they currently have going.

I'll be honest, with the current pacing trends I don't think they'd be able to do justice to the Jaime/Khaji Da ship in building it up into something that would make sense and have readers-- who weren't already-- get invested. Host/symbiont ships are a hard sell, so there HAS to be a believable buildup, but when the pacing's shooting by like the reader got fired out of a cannon and has to rapid-fire take notes about what they pass within seconds so they can only record the broad strokes and nothing in between, then all of that buildup crumbles into nothing. (Case in point with relationship buildup crumbling into nothing: the whole thing with Oo'li.) Physicality can kind of override some of that in a narrative, but that requires the characters to have separate bodies so they can externally interact and separate from time to time-- and Jaime and Khaji Da, by the very nature of what Khaji Da is, don't have access to that narrative override.

In terms of them trying to sell comics with the lack of decent pacing and time that DC is pushing, it's probably financially safer for them to not put the effort in to try for that kind of narrative buildup; it would take time they don't have to do it justice, and trying to force it anyway might lose them buyers due to said buyers getting put off by poorly done stories.

Yeah, as a fan to whom the possibility seems obvious and who is heavily invested in these characters, it's frustrating. I get that, and I don't blame you. But on the flip-side, DC has made plenty of wtf decisions of late (don't even get me started on the absolutely ridiculous number of Batman or Batman-adjacent books they're currently putting out right now, to the point where Bat-everything is drowning out damn near everything else), and with the lousy pacing and quick turnaround on comics they currently have going I'm honestly glad that they're not currently tackling a Jaime/Khaji Da narrative. I don't want to see what they would do to it at this time, I don't trust them to do it justice.

And speaking as someone with at least one fave DC character who has shown up in all of 94 issues total, sometimes you're honestly much better off looking to fandom and fanfiction for what you want to see. At least then you know you have a solid chance of seeing it done really well rather than getting hit with frustration or disappointment over not seeing it at all.

#Blue Beetle #Blue Beetle III #Jaime Reyes #Khaji Da #DC #DC comics #comics #ScarabLove #fandom #fanfiction #my life

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milo-the-professional-yapper · 1 month

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Hello! about your malevolent ask

[long ass answer- many apologies]

its a slightly goofy, sort of horror soap opera, in the vein of call of cthulu/tma. I dont find it Super Scary, but idk what your milage for horror is.

The overarching plot is drivin by the patrions (sp sorry), in the style of a choose your own adventure novel- you can usually tell where the choices are; it'll be something like 'omg arthur, we're at a crossroads- do we go left, to the evil cavern (where the horrors live) or right, to the evil woods (more horrors).' You can also hear more overt RPG stylings in the beginning- dice roll sounds for perception checks, etc. These do fade out after the first season.

Rough outline (some spoilers): John (a spirit/demon type guy) possesses Arthur (a detective from Arkham MA) and, in doing so, takes over his eyes. Now Arthur must navigate the world with only the guidance of the voice in his head. Horrors unfold, walls are walked into the boys are in their get-along consciousness. Think venom, if both of them were way bitchier and prone to swearing. and also eddy was blind.

IS IT GAY: Yes and no. If its a friendship, its really intense- but cannonicaly it has been very firmly stated that they are just friends. However, the relationship is intertwined and deep enough that many people consider it to be queerplatonic- Arthur being aromantic is a very popular interpretation, if that sweetens the pot for you (idk how loosely you're using gay here). Glib answer: its pretty queer, but no kissing.

COOL STUFF:

-A dramatic, intense relationship between a guy and the dude who lives in his head. They argue ( my god how they argue) they make up, they argue again.

-The saddest little english man (arthur) gets chucked off cliffs multiple times. Do you like men whimpering? This is the podcast for you!

-Very impressive voice acting: the writer voices absolutely everyone in the podcast (yes. everyone) and its genuinely almost unnoticeable. You really do have to have it pointed out to you.

-Fun, slightly campy (in the way of an rpg campaign) Lovecraft style horror

-Lovely piano soundtrack

-A gentleman called the butcher shows up in- what season 3? maybe?- and I adore him. Go singing irishman go. You get that violent homoeroticism.

Drawbacks:

Again, I don't really know your taste, but these are some of the things that might turn someone off from listening. YMMV etc.

-LOUD. If you dont like gentlemen yelling DIRECTLY AND ANGRILY INTO THE MIC then this is not for you. If you do like that, then you are about the have the time of your life. There is also just. An incredible amount of panting/heavy breathing. Also directly into the mic, and at length. Like, an 'i am secretly watching gay pornography' amount. I had it going on a speaker once and my roommate had questions, kind of amount

-Almost no women characters: understandable, since a dude is voicing Literally Everyone- but it is something of a sausage fest. Women exist in universe, they just tend to move in the backround/be unvoiced. Lots of 'oh heres whats happened to her' sort of describing around the 'I can't voice a woman' issue. One old lady has a few voice lines and thats it.

-Kind of a soap: This is a draw for me ngl, but if you are looking for TMA 2: the magnusing- she isn't it. Its a LOT lighter than tma, writing wise, and isnt exactly hitting any crazy new twists in its plot (if you've read Any lovecraftian stuff you probably wont be super surprised by anything)BUT. Its still very fun. Two dudes sharing a body, detective roadship shenanigans. They might kiss! Might see some skinned bodies or something.

The dynamics can be a lil repetative (wake up break up back together) and the plot can be a little- ehhhh. due to it being yk, patrion controlled- but that can be fun- it's pretty heavily a choose your own adventure story at heart, so if your down with that (and the sillyness that comes with it) then you'll like it.

-Gore: pretty gory. I enjoy that sort of thing/ am not really effected by it BUT if that not your cup of tea, then you might wanna skedaddle.

🤠 thats all. Again, apologies for the very long answer.

First off- don’t apologize! This gave me everything I needed- thank you for the detailed answer to my question! Looks like I’m giving this podcast a listen- everyone wish me luck 😭

#malevolent #malevolent podcast #you said qpr and I was all in #I’m aroace so I’d love to see better rep of that kind of thing #even if it’s not explicitly stated that it’s a canon qpr

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vampycat237 · 7 months

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been single for probably the longest stretch of time since before i started dating and like i dunno. it's very interesting.

its half deliberate because a. i just want to experience being single again. i was in 2 roughly 2 year long relationships with like a month or two between them maybe idk and i just wanted to see what it was like. b. long distance is hard for me bc half my love language is physical touch/proximity, and i tend to fall for friends, and most of my friends (and All my close friends who ive known a long time) are long distance friends.

its also semi unintentional bc i keep crushing on people who are already in relationships lmao. and like while i could, and have come close to, asking if polyamory on the table for those relationships, the thing about long distance is still a problem gfgjkdsk

anyway thats the Why. Not that there needs to be one, eh.

as far as how i feel about it? Idk. Im not upset really, it's a little lonely sometimes bc i am kind of a romantic person, i miss having a partner sometimes. but like... idk. really feeling the "I'm not aromantic but i believe in their beliefs" lately. like do i miss everything about dating, or do i just want to kiss someone? do i really want the image of romance held up by society or do i want some weird polyamorous queerplatonic shit. do i really want a partner or do i just miss sex. And yeah you could bundle those things together into the idea of wanting a partner but also like... what if i unbundled them

also i think i just desperately need more genuine, deep connections with other people, platonic or otherwise. platonic ideally my brain needs friends

anyway wasnt really going anywhere with this but idk. Glimpse into my brain

#ask to tag #i guess idk #chirps #personal #not really a vent bc its neutral

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felicityphoenix5 · 2 years

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hello 5, 10, 16, 19, 22, 24, 27, 38, 48, 50, 54

5. What kinds of attraction do you feel? [platonic, queerplatonic, aesthetic, alterous, etc.] platonic, queerplatonic, aesthetic, etc lmao

10. What would you rather do instead of a romantic relationship? Like have a life-

16. What confuses you about typical romantic relationships? SO MANY THINGS. Why are you expected to..... how do I phrase this.... like. be Their Person?? or smth? Why is it expected??? Do you actually want to have a partner or is that just amanormativity telling you you want that??? I want to study you people

22. How do you feel about typical intimacy? [kissing, cuddling, etc.] kissing is one of the weirdest forms of human intimacy. cuddling is superior to everything except maybe hugs

24. Would you like to be flirted with? ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... maybe??? idk. id probably think it was platonic banter lol

27. Do you enjoy seeing romance IRL/online/in media/etc.? ........ sometimes. if it's gay then I'm more likely to engage in it (media-wise) and I basically never notice romance irl (since I never really go irl lmao)

38. How many arospecs do you know online/IRL? Online: fiveish?? I think?? IRL: As far as I know, only one :((( (i need more arospec friends)

48. How do you feel about love songs? They must be bangers for me to enjoy them. I must be able to BOP to them!!!

50. Any arospec headcanons? *insert all of yours cuz they're all so based and awesome* Toph (ATLA) aromantic demisexual, Snowfall (from WoF) bi aroace, Sunny (WoF) aroace, Hollyleaf (Warriors) aroace Linh (KoTLC) Demiromantic, Asexual (thank fucking god I had these saved)

54. What is the best part about using arospec microlabels? [if you use them] hmmmmm..... for me, I like knowing things For Certain. so knowing that This Is What I Am and I know Specifically, it's comforting I guess? Yeah.

Also, you're RIGHT this takes AGES. GOD.

#ask #the mutual ask tag #ask game #ask game answers

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questioning-aspec-culture-is · 2 years

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I know I’m ace. I’m questioning aro overall, I’m don’t know the difference between romantic love and attraction and other types. I’m also Afab questioning enby

I just realized my also Afab friend who’s is a boy, I feel attraction to????

Okay so like I don’t want to kiss them, or have sex, but I want to have shared smiles and hold there hand and maybe some snuggling. I had real quick feelings with two other Afab friends, a few male celebrities, but I think it was more in the charecters they played and I want to be famous sorta thing

But idk. I don’t want them to fall I love with me (they are queer allo) casue I don’t want to ruin the friend ship we have

But maybe I wanna be closer to them in general cause he is the only one my feelings have stayed for. And maybe I feel bad cause I don’t hang out with them a lot cause he’s open and out and I’m not at all, and I just, I’m scared to, it’s no escuse cause I love them platonicly for sure but they are the only one I think I feel ‘romance’ around

And I can’t tell if it’s cause they know I’m a questioning mess, my only irl friend, I feel scared when I hang out with them cause ‘I’m not suppose to’ cause fucking high school status quo, I’m to afraid to go other to his house and I don’t want them to come to mine and I feel bad about it

But it’s only been them.

(I’m so sorry this turned into a late night rambly mess feel free to ignore, I love your content and you’re helping me)

hey, no need to apologise! I'm glad my content is helping you :)

Ok, so what I'm picking up from this is that you have feelings for one of your friends but you don't know whether it's romantic attraction and you don't want to ruin your friendship with them.

I must confess that I'm not entirely sure I can help you here, but I can definitely offer you some pointers that might guide you a bit.

The first thing I would say is that if there's only ever been one person you've felt more than fleeting romantic attraction for, that could suggest you are greyromantic.

I would also suggest looking more deeply into your attraction to this person - the fact that you don't want to kiss them suggests it might not be romantic attraction (although there is debate about whether kissing is a romantic or sexual activity). You could check out some types of tertiary attraction like alterous, queerplatonic, or sensual. From your description of your attraction it sounds like these might be possibilities, but they are just that - possibilities. you know your attraction better than I do.

Two last unrelated things I would add are 1) this probably isn't very helpful but honestly, fuck the status quo!! do what makes you happy and 2) i can't help but notice the way you focus on the agabs of your friends/crushes, and especially as you may be realising you're enby and moving into trans spaces yourself i'd like to mention that the trans community generally doesn't focus on what gender people were assigned at birth, because it isn't really relevant - the gender they are is more important than the gender doctors thought they were :) /nm

#not questioning aspec culture #questioning ask #questioning aro #aro #aromantic #arospec #greyromantic #grayromantic #tertiary attraction

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star-on-a-beach · 1 month

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Oh fuck it

Joining in on the ships rating thing, and I'm including almost almost EVERY SHIP IVE THOUGHT OF/HEARD OF. EVEN JUST FOR A SECOND. Please don't kill me for any of these

This will be a lot. BUT HERE WE GO

(Only romantic pairing ideas btw, if we wanna go through platonic pairings that's a whole 'nother post)

Ships I think about often (note that not all of these are canon)

Lancia: 100000/10. Obsessed. I think about them daily. They are my Roman empire. I could genuinely talk about them for hours but I'll save yall the walls of text. But I constantly think about them in a king/queen sense and I'm obsessed.

Goldenrain: 100/10. They are so fucking cute and the whole family of these two and Usa and Deedee is amazing

Spirals: 10/10. Always gonna be the OG and I will be clinging onto any spirals fanart for years because IN ANOTHER UNIVERSE, IT HAPPENS

Starro x Conny/ Boxsprings: 10/10. Already obsessed and I have so many ideas. I fucking LOVE being a multishipper.

Starro x Kade/ Starcade: 8/10. In theory it was cute, and I still think it is. But they'd be better as besties

Sammy x Alexander: 10/10. TWINK X HIMBO FOREVER

Firestone: 9.9/10. I like their dynamic of a no touch relationship, and even tho I'm a physical affection girlie FOREVER, it's nice to have rep of a relationship that's not like that

Lata x Latte: 9/10. Simple, yet tragic and lovely

Slyn x Hexe: 3/10. Abusive, and they're both horrible individuals

Gunshot: 8/10. I love seeing Mix happy, so I'm happy

Mix x Icia: 7/10. Obviously not canon, nor will it EVER be, but it was an interesting dynamic when I first thought of it

Sammy x Dunite: 9/10. They've always been super close so I've thought it's interesting

Icia x Aoki: 7/10. One of my favorite noncanons, but I love them having a sibling-like relationship in canon

Icia x Arthur: 6/10. Arthur intimidates me and lowkey intimidates Icia too so this ship is adorable but would also have me feel like I'm walking on eggshells

Starro x Dunite: 7/10. Cute, that's all I have to say

Sammy x Odette: 6/10. I could see it.

Mix x Silo: 7/10. THIS ONE FUCKING HURTS

Icia x Achilles: Get Therapy/10. The trauma is fucking UNREAL with this one, yall are NOT READY

____ x _________: 8/10. I know someone's gonna guess this one, probably Elsie- and I do have plans for it, it'll just be a while. And I gotta make it cute but also surprising without making it seemed forced lmao

Heartstrings: 9/10. Holy shit, so much fluff, and Jessy is just. HHHHHHHHH

Smith x Hans: 8/10. I DESPERATELY NEED MORE OF THEM *SHAKES FEI*

Pyx x Thanatos: 8/10. The sex jokes are funny to me, and the art is adorable.

Bob x Sign: 7/10. I feel bad for all the trauma they've gone through, and while I do think the sex is funny, sometimes I gotta just set my phone down and have a moment bc it gets far sometimes. I do really think it's cute when Bob gives Sign neck kisses tho, their fluffy moments are spectacular

Odette x Flare: 7.5/10. I still think it'd be cute

Mix x Drunkie: 4/10. Ran its course, and I'm glad it's over. But it wasn't the worst either

Ships I don't think about often BUT do cross my mind from time to time/ Crackships

Hammer x Chaos: 9/10. Pretty solid, funny sex jokes (maybe too many for my taste but still (like seriously those two make out so much I wouldn't be surprised if their lips literally ached, not in a good way either))

Icia x Raina: 6/10. Would be a cute queerplatonic relationship but it's just funny with Raina being the Lancia 3rd wheel (and being the one to first actually technically SUGGEST Lancia)

Starro x Sign: 4/10. Idk man, don't ask me bc I don't know

Bobelle: 3/10. I have no words.

Bob x Felicia: 1/10. Definitely concerning and uncomfortable every time I remember it

Chip x Alpen: 7/10. Don't think of them often, but they're cute

Helpful x Lucy: 5/10. Feels a bit forced and Lucy was a bit too relentless for me to enjoy it at first, she just feels like she was only made for being something for him and that's it

Helpline: 6/10. I don't remember much abt this ship but I thought it was cute that Dial cared for Helpful like that (despite me wanting to strangle Helpful like 60% of the time)

Sigilbeam: 9/10. Don't think of them often but they are just ADORABLE, I think Sun is really underrated

Icia x Dunite: 6/10. Some could see it, I could not lol

Sammy x Smith: 8/10. I don't wanna hear a damn peep about this one, it'd be funny as fuck (a bit more than just a crackship to me)

Sal x Amelia: 8/10. I've thought about them and I'm not afraid to say that I think it'd be cute (but I feel like there's a reason I forgot abt as to why it's not canon)

Sal x Dunite: 5/10. They're cute as friends and that's all

Starro x Pyx: 5/10. It's crossed my mind, but I see them more like brothers

Cit x Flare x Odette: 7/10. I'm not really a poly girl but HEAR ME OUT

Nova x Switch: 7/10. I could see it, but it's not for me

Mocha x Vaga: 2/10. Definitely not. More like a father-son thing imo. Or at least brothers

Odette x Achilles: 5/10. Chaos trio member brought this up, and I'm pretty neutral about it

Stitch x Chance: 👏👏👏/10. I still dunno how the fuck that dude did it, but kudos man.

Stitch x Icia: 3/10. He's too short for her lmao.

Icia x Sammy: 8/10. I could see it. I could definitely see it.

Icia x Slyn: 0/10. Hahahaha NO.

Belle x Helpful: ???/10. Is this even a ship? I have no idea

Toxic Helpline: Good ship name/10

Raina x Odette: 6-7?/10. Idk how i thought of this but I did and it's not my LEAST favorite ship ever? But. Eh.

Starro x Raina: 3/10. Dunno where this came from

Fred x Deedee: Cats/10. Idk it's funny man

Drunkie x Kopi: 3/10. No.

Mix x Kopi: 2/10. NO.

Kumo x Kopi: 5/10. No opinion.

Northeast: 7/10. Cute but too bland for me

Ciana x Apollo: 7.1/10. Same as Northeast

Ok.... I think that's it.... man I coulda been using all that time to write angst, damn

#modstar

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crashdown · 2 years

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ofmd s2 predictions

because why not, here we go

they have that goddamn tallent show. what, you think that little boat fits all of them? they might as well have a little fun before they die

they do end up getting on the little boat together. chaos ensues.

lucius is alive and washes up on the beach and everything's FINE IT'S FINE HE'S NOT DEAD SHUT UP DAVID

OR lucius is found by spanish jackie and joins up with her. he's sick of everyone's shit. maybe he's gonna get black pete out of there first

black pete bitch-slaps ed. that's what you get for throwing my bf into the ocean you whore

sapphic pirates. specifically natasha lyonne as someone idk who but she needs to be there

spanish jackie and jim kiss. this one is backed up by vico so i won't be taking criticism

ed gets a tattoo for stede. it's small and hidden but it's there. only he knows it's there but it's there and that's what matters.

ed and stede duel. i hate this one but it's gonna happen

ed and izzy kiss. little bit of a rebound moment! it's not real love but izzy's into it

izzy dies. stede kills him. hands off my boyfriend, you worm

frenchie asexuaity arc. fun little b plot. maybe they make him a flag, who knows

frenchie and wee john queerplatonic relationship (as a result of the b plot). oh my god they were roommates

ed trims his beard but keeps a little of it when stede and him make up. he's not blackbeard anymore but hey, the beard WAS kind of cute. and stede likes it

ed and stede have a gay little pirate wedding. this probably won't happen until season 3 but i can dream

another fucking heartbreaking cliffhanger which leaves us all emotionally damaged and frothing at the mouth for more

#saving this for when it gets renewed #ofmd #our flag means death #blackstede #blackbonnet

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swombwave · 3 years

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aro/aspec tf headcanons that totally arent just me projecting shhhhhhhhh

So I know canonically they're an asexual species, however asexuality can also extend to other forms of intimidacy besides sex - like kissing and other forms of non-sexual affection. I, myself, a proud aromantic asexual, find mouth to mouth kissing to be an EXTREME NO NO for me. Let's not forget about the repulsive, enthusiastic, and neutral side of things. So... I'm like... considering what asexuality would look like in an already asexual species, because they CAN show intimate affection, I know what some of those comic artists post on their twitters i'VE SEEN THINGS-

It's like 50% what I described above and 50% the more widely known understanding of asexuality idk these dummies ace

Swindle? Demiromantic or greyromantic asexual, definitely. Reasoning? Vibes. I feel as though he wouldn't be big on things like kissing. Neutral or repulsed.

Soundwave is the most aroace robot to ever grace this planet. Every continuity just makes him more and more aroace. Prime gave us a Soundwave who probably thinks love is a neurological lie, and Cyberverse gave us a chaotic aroace who plays sad clown music to mock people. You ask him what his love language is and he starts speaking French.

TFA Blurr? Definitely aroace. I could sense it the very he transformed and said "the name's not Zippy" Glares into space as if he's on The Office whenever romance is brought up.

Rodimus is ace solely because I wish to spite the people fetishizing him in a fairly... bigoted manner. Grey or demi, maybe

IDW Blurr is also ace out of pure spite.

TFA Blitzwing is aroace too and honestly good for him. Love iconic representation.

Shockwave. Explanation unnecessary.

Prowl... haven't seen much of him in the comics yet and I'm still watching TFA and G1 but mmmm the ace vibes are there. TFA especially

The Jettwins from TFA probably don't know what kissing is but I've decided they're aroace

TFA Jazz also gives me aspec vibes.

ONLY THING STOPPING ME FROM MAKING THE ENTIRE CREW ASPEC IS THAT I HATE SENTINEL FAR TOO MUCH

Wheeljack gives me ace vibes in most continuities. Not always arospec but definitely ace.

Oh my god idea... BreakOut but one of them is way more ace than the other... still a couple obv but... 😳

Queerplatonic Coswave is also good

Whirl. Probably.

Half of this list was me projecting

If my friends send me asks about these I'll scream

#personal #don't reblog #please...

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mrs-nate-humphrey · 3 years

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This is totally cool, lol! That's why I tagged you, I like different perspectives 🥰 and I adore lesbian Jenny

I've been thinking a lot about Jenny's character and sexuality lately since I'm in the middle of rewatching the show. I totally agree that she's attracted to women and most times she pursues guys it's mainly to increase social status and not because of genuine interest. Nate always felt different to me, though. Like, the two times she really pursues him is in season 2, when she's being homeschooled and trying to make it as a designer, and the end of season 3, which is after the whole Damien drama and she's just looking for someone who cares about her and respects her (I know you said once that it doesn't even feel romantic here, which I also agree with, poor girl just needs a connection). I do really see how it can be interrupted as comphet, though. Like she feels like she's supposed to be attracted to Nate because who wouldn't be?

I think the reason why I lean the other way is probably just projection. Jenny's been my favourite GG character since I first watched the show when I was 12, partly because I relate a lot to her, and since I'm bisexual... Add that plus the fact that I totally have had a crush on Nate and of course I'm gonna ship them. I've been relating to Jenny even more this time around cause I dropped out of school this year, so her season 2 arc really hit close to me. So this made my jenate feelings come back tenfold and also made me that much madder at Rufus, lol. I just wanted to go through the screen and shake his shoulders like "There are other paths than the one you want your daughter to have, not everyone has to go through life like society expects you to let your daughter carve out her own unconventional path you fucking idiot!" Luckily my parents have been way more supportive.

Mainly I just see Jenny as bi with a strong lean towards women, but I like to think about lesbian Jenny, too. It wouldn't exactly be the first time I had contradicting headcanons.

I don't know I just think it's really cool that different people can have such different interpretations of the same character. I think that's what's so interesting about fiction, to see how we view things differently depending on how we view and relate to things based on our own experiences. Tumblr can be so focused on hating people who disagree with you, but I like following people with different opinions, it helps me understand people better.

Yeah, I'm glad you tagged me!! back in November, some anons were mean to me about shipping Jenate (me??? who literally does not even - anyway) and ever since then I've been trying extra to ensure that Jenate shippers feel welcome on my blog - you may already know this, because I've brought it up before, but I'm saying it here to let you know that every time you tag me in your Jenate edits I get so happy that you're sharing something you're so passionate about with me!! I'm also a big believer of like........ making the content you want to see (a big part of why I even learnt to gif is because nobody was giffing Dan & Nate, and I was like...... that's the content I need, so if it's not already existing, I'm gonna make it happen!) so regardless of my feelings it's always so cool to see the way you conceptualise JN + their feelings re: each other, and your choice of scenes + lyrics (??? I'm not actually familiar with where you got the words for your edits, they're likely songs I haven't heard, haha) is just so interesting & good!

OH my full Jenny & Nate feelings are a lot more complicated than just comphet on Jenny's part. I feel like..... neither of them was romantically/sexually into each other? and that is kind of the appeal to me? I've always interpreted Nate's interest in Jenny during the s2 arc as sort of like - everything in his life is so unstable and undetermined, and here is Jenny who is so clear on who she is and what she wants, and he admires and respects that, and he wants to be there for her and support her, so when she kisses him he just sort of lets her take their dynamic wherever she wants to? that is very much the vibe I got. You already know how I feel about lesbian Jenny, I mean, you quoted my meta right back at me :'))

but I DO agree with you that Nate is different from the other guys to Jenny. JN have this really specific kind of honesty to them - well, when Jenny wasn't spiralling and trying to get power and acting out, and when the writers actually cared? I still think that NJ had the potential to be a SOLID dynamic but the writers made it sorta unhealthy on the show :(( - but I've spoken abt moments like in seventeen candles and the empire strikes jack before, where they're both able to be emotionally vulnerable around each other in ways we don't see them be with anyone else. I've even compared that to what I like about Derena, whom everyone knows I ship in every possible way, haha. But there's something about characters who trust each other and allow themselves to be honest with each other in ways that they wouldn't otherwise EVER be - especially with characters like Jenny & Nate who have spent so long trying to seem fine and okay even when they're really not.

I honestly really like the idea of queerplatonic Jenate - they're life partners, they're each other's rock, they're each other's person - but it's not romantic OR sexual - and for Nate & Jenny, whose adolescence has involved navigating other people sexualising them so much + not having the best track record with romantic relationships - for them, I feel being qpps gets REALLY interesting, because you get all the perks of a relationship without the romantic/sexual obligations? (obligations isn't the best word, but i don't know what else to use here? LOL) and that's something i love to explore.

I feel like book Jenny was bi! The way she gushed about Nate, whom she canonically had a crush on, and the way she gushed about Serena were EXACTLY the same. Also YES I love multiple headcanons always, it's a lot of fun seeing people explore that!!! I know people who have aroace readings of Jenny, or aro lesbian / ace lesbian readings of her, and I find that really cool, too!

I also definitely get you about relating to Jenny a lot, and feeling that kind of connection. It's similar to how I feel about Dan, and .... explains a lot of my contradicting dair views, actually. A few years ago I had a seriously intense crush on a girl who was... a lot like Blair, in many ways. I spent a ridiculous amount of time writing poetry about her, etc etc, but I never actually acted on it. If she'd fabricated schemes that involved us kissing, though..... I don't know. I don't think I would've denied it if I'd felt like I actually had a chance. I think we just had a case of bad timing, & I like to think in another universe, maybe we were actually together for a bit. I'm glad that your parents are supportive of you and better than Rufus! <3

I think that's what's so interesting about fiction, to see how we view things differently depending on how we view and relate to things based on our own experiences <- THIS exactly! this is a big part of why that "proship" is in my bio. like this is exactly what it means to me and how I conceptualise & understand it!!! Like you, I also like engaging with people who have different understandings and opinions of the characters -> it definitely helps you make new friends you would otherwise not meet by staying in your bubble, & from a fandom point of view, it also helps you develop a more nuanced understanding of a character. Some of the best written Jenny Humphrey I've read was in Jenate fics - and I've had people who don't even ship Blenny tell me they liked the way I wrote Jenny in my post canon blennyfic, so... idk. it's loving Jenny hours - each and every single iteration of Jenny!!!

#long post #edmundapologist #jenate #i would usually like . put a post of this length under a read more #but i don't know where i would insert that here? so this is how it turns out i guess #meta #also adding the #personal #tag. this feels mildly TMI but it's nothing i haven't said before in tags #this is the first time i'm Formally putting it out here though #tumblr user rainathorpe came THIS close to having an irl dair arc... hashtag so much for that #ALSO ! sometimes i tag stuff like that because like -#my blog kind of serves as a record or journal for ME #sometimes i read thru my own posts like 'so true bestie' fghgklhf #which i think is the best way to run a tumblr. be your own audience!#thank you for this ask btw - it's very sweet!! <3

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arospectips · 3 years

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first of all thank you for all that y’all do!! i’ve sent in,,, a lot,,, and y’all have been so helpful and nice so thank you so much!! :))) this will be ~long~ so strap in. the bullet points make it look longer than it is but i figure it’s easier to read that way? idk. anyway i thought i was arospec and now i’m thinking i may be full aro? i know no one else can tell “diagnose” me or anything but i was hoping to get some perspective. so i’m just gonna put down all my thoughts and hope i haven’t forgotten anything.

- my first “crush” was in preschool

- i’ve had a lot of “crushes,” more than anyone else i’ve met, and none have lasted very long (at most until i stopped seeing them regularly)

- for the duration of these “crushes,” i could never really sort out my feelings and would eventually just accept it was romantic in order to stop thinking about it

- i’ve always thought of crushes as a fun thing, more of something i could choose rather than something that chose me (“this person is attractive and funny, do i have a crush on them? yes. no. probably. yeah, sure.” rather than “ahh i’m blushing and this attractive person made me laugh oh god do i like them?”)

- my “crushes” tended to be cute guys who were nice/funny or a close girl friend

- it never occurred to me to date these people until other people around me started dating

- when i was homeschooled for one year, 6th grade, i was mainly isolated (by choice/circumstance—as in nobody forced me to be alone or anything. my parents are great and cool) and didnt think about/yearn for a romantic relationship

- i began to question if i was acespec and found i am uncomfortable being described as “biromantic”

- i can easily imagine characters in romantic relationships but it is very difficult to imagine myself in one

- i “dated” a guy for about two weeks and was not comfortable when he would be *oogie*

- my favorite part of romance is the closeness, the idea of being committed to another person—everything that could also be construed as romance

- when characters are being particularly romantic (i.e. wedding vows, etc.) i get uncomfortable or skeptical, something i assumed everyone did because it seems so unrealistic

- for a long time i thought a romantic relationship would be the only way for me to be validated in my gender (if my partner was romantically attracted to men and was romantically attracted to me, then they must see me as a man so that means society sees me as a man and i get a stamp on my Transmasc Card or something)

- i thought a romantic relationship would be the only way for me to have a long-term/committed relationship (i’m not good at keeping friends)

- the times i have wanted a romantic relationship the most i have been the most insecure

- i enjoy reading/writing/watching romance (see clarification above) and have hardcore ships. but only queer ships?

- i really really wanted a romantic relationship (again, see above)

- i’ve been imagining my wedding since i was Baby because ohmygod big party and loving someone/people and them loving me

- i had a very intense “crush” for a few months on my best friend in middle school

- i like to cuddle/whatever and am ambivalent about kissing (which i’ve never done so i guess i can’t really have an opinion on it)

- up until i began questioning, i always thought i would be in a typical monogamous relationship, get married, have kids, etc.

- a while back my sister told me she had never had a crush and i didn’t understand how that could be (before i knew aspec was a thing)

- both my therapists think it is just how relationships are/this is just phase/i’m confused/etc.

- i am extremely introverted so maybe all this is a result of that rather than being aro

thank you for reading and taking the time to respond to my stupid long ask, i love and appreciate you all!!!

There sure are a lot of relatable aro things in here. Fake crushes, thinking you want to date someone and then realizing that you don't actually, having different feelings about fictional romance and real romance, not thinking about relationships when there's no one around to put it on your mind, wanting a relationship for the sake of proving you're not cis/het… you're certainly not alone in any of those things.

You might benefit from the term "alterous attraction" which can be used to describe an emotional pull that doesn't fit neatly into platonic or romantic. Kind of like gender, this is one of those binaries that more or less works for a majority of people, so we end up acting like the area in between or outside of it doesn't exist.

Closeness, commitment, kissing, and cuddling are not actually exclusive to romance. These are common motives for aros to pursue queerplatonic, alterous, or similar relationships. Wanting those things does not preclude you from being aromantic.

Therapists, like anyone, are not always great when it comes to aspec issues. There's a good chance your therapists would tell even the most obvious aro person in the world that it's just a phase or a repression problem. I'd suggest looking for a new therapist, maybe taking a look at arorecommended. If you can't do that, then it's probably best to avoid the subject of romance.

Being introverted doesn't seem to stop plenty of alloromantics from having yearnings and crushes. They might have a harder time actively pursuing those crushes, but the same desires are there.

Overall there's nothing here that makes me want to say, "Yeah that's romantic attraction". If you think aromantic fits better than any other arospec label, go for it.

#mod twilight #aromantic #arospec #questioning #alterous attraction #arophobia

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kristenbeeapples · 4 years

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Further questions anyway! Gorgug and Zelda = demi-pan with one or both possibly poly-fi? Yes or no.

Omg thank you both so much for asking about what was totally supposed to be a joke post! That being said you are going to regret it because I have a lot of feelings and this is going to be looooong.

Before I start I want to shout out @riz-gukgak for posting their aro Fantasy High headcanons for aro awareness week which are all great and introduced me to the hc that Gorgug’s parents are queerplatonic partners, and also the fic ‘just shut up and drive’ by meathermac on Ao3 which features ace Zelda! If anyone knows their tumblr let me know and I’ll tag them. (Also read it, it’s great!)

So to begin, I think there’s a lot of justification in canon for Zelda and Gorgug being ace or on the ace spectrum, and particularly Gorgug by virtue of him being a PC and us spending more time with him. The recurring gag of the binder/his parents explaining sex acts in a lot of detail to him are obviously very funny, but I’ve been doing a rewatch recently and it struck me that he never really seems into it? Like he always just seems confused or is like ‘huh, that’s interesting, I guess,’ but without any emotional attachment to it. It reminded me of how I reacted to the (limited, lol Catholic school) sex education I got - it was something that was interesting but I analysed it in an academic way rather than connecting it to myself, if you get what I mean. Probably it’s a comedic choice on Zac’s part but also in the context of the show I feel like him being ace makes sense.

As well, Zelda and Gorgug are such a contrast to the other teenage couples on Fantasy High. At first it was just Tracker and Kristen fucking all the time, which is fine and they’re a very different couple to Gorgug and Zelda, but this week we saw Ayda explicitly telling Fig she finds her erotic as well as them previously making out for a really long time (and of course the iconic Fig hot tub situation). We also have had Ragh hooking up with Fethethriel (? idk how to spell it) and other teen characters like Skrank canonically fucking a lot of people. As far as I remember the only thing we’ve seen Gorgug and Zelda do is kiss, and even that only a couple of times. They’ve been together for over a year and not done anything more - I get taking it slow or whatever, but that’s also a good justification for them to be ace!

As for specific headcanons, yes I think both of them are bi/pan-romantic. Zelda I feel like is demi-romantic also, and maybe thought she was aromantic for a while before having one of those really intense crushes on one of her friends in middle school and being like ‘oh no.’ I think when she and Gorgug were first hanging out she explained all this to him and when they officially Started Dating was like ‘we will have to take things really slowly before I’m comfortable.’ And Gorgug, being Gorgug, was like of course! And then as time goes on and on and they still haven’t done anything sexual, Gorgug realises he doesn’t really mind? If they never do anything at all? Gorgug mentions this to Adaine (who is for sure aroace) one day and she’s just like, ‘dude, you’re ace,’ and he’s like ‘oh, okay, makes sense!’ He and Zelda talk, and she realises she doesn’t mind either since she’s probably grey-ace/sex-neutral too so it works for them!

Also, I feel like Gorgug’s parents would feel absolutely terrible when he tells them - in my mind they’re like overcompensating for not being a “normal” couple by aggressively teaching Gorgug all about sex and relationships, but they just like. Forgot. That maybe he wouldn’t want a “normal” relationship either? They end up doing a bunch of research and make a new binder full of ace/aro terms to go through with Zelda and Gorgug and it’s just very sweet.

This has gotten ridiculously long but to finish, yes also to poly things (also in meathermac’s fic!) I feel like Gorgug and Ragh are queerplatonic partners/bros who make out sometimes, and Zelda has a similar relationship with someone from the seven maidens so it works out. However, they’re each other’s primary partners and their relationship is the only explicitly romantic one.

TLDR; pan/demi-romantic/grey-ace Zelda and pan-romantic asexual Gorgug!

#whoops this got long #thank u for asking it means a lot!#fantasy high #gorgug/zelda #gorgug thistlespring #zelda donovan #asks #jamiebluewind #anonymous #my posts #i ran an aro ace social today and then came back to these asks which was so nice!! really feeling the ace pride 💜💜💜#dimension 20

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askanaroace · 5 years

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[1/2] idk if you can answer that but I'm aroace and I want to date, does that mean I suffer from amatonormativity? sometimes I think I like the idea of dating better than I would appreciate dating for real. like every time I think about what dating must entail (kisses, physical affection, etc) I'm feel uneasiness, and then I think that I would probably feel better with a strong friendship. maybe it's bc I don't see a real difference between romance and friendship (except for the

[1/2] kisses and physical affection part) as I've never experienced the first one. the more I think about it, the more I believe what I want is to matter for someone in a way that a romantic partner is supposed to matter.

I've just sent you 2 asks about amatonormativity but I wrote [1/2] on both ^^' just know they're from the same anon.

Re: the last part - haha, no worries; I’ve done the same!

Honestly? Yeah. 100% you are impacted by amatonormativity. It’s not because you’re bad or weak or a traitor or you’ve done anything wrong. It’s because we’re all impacted by amatonormativity (at least in this - and many others - societies).

Could specifically your desire to want to date have to do with amatonormativity? Yeah. Totally possible.

Is it possible that my desire to NEVER date again is also a reaction against amatonormativity’s impact? Yeah. Totally possible.

Neither of us are in the wrong for how we feel.

And it’s hella confusing to not be sure if you like the idea of dating or if you actually do want to date, but you’re not wrong for those feelings either.

We all take in messages depending on how society functions, depending on who raised us, depending on who we hang out with, depending on the media we consume, depending on our past experiences. That’s just how beliefs and even personalities are formed. We can put in the long, hard work of unlearning harmful and incorrect messages, but we can’t stop ourselves from being somehow, in some way, impacted by both learning and unlearning them.

It’s not wrong for aroace people to date or even to just want to date. It’s, in fact, not at all uncommon. There’s a whole orientation for folk who are aro/ace and want a romantic/sexual relationship, in fact: cupioromantic/cupiosexual.

Now, the fact that you’re unsure of what you want could just mean that it would take some experience and time and work to figure out your desires and your boundaries. Maybe you would truly be happy in a romantic(/sexual?) relationship that simply didn’t involve much touch. There are many ways to be intimate with others.

However, I also want to gently suggest looking into/thinking about a queerplatonic relationship, which you may feel offers you more openness to exploring and setting your boundaries. It may perhaps make you more comfortable in actually approaching whatever sort of relationship you may be interested in seeking.

Or maybe you’re totally not ready for any of that and for now you do just want to enjoy the idea of a relationship while not at all pursuing one. Work on letting go of your guilt and just enjoy your daydreams, reading/writing romance, etc.

Just because amatonormativity may play some part of your possible desire to date doesn’t mean that it’s not okay to explore these feelings, at your own pace within your own comfort zone.

#relationships #dating #aromantic #asexual #aroace #aro #ace #queerplatonic #ask #op #boundaries #cupioromantic #cupiosexual #Anonymous

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violetemerald · 5 years

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Ok yes, I've decided I like the terminology of Alterous Attraction

I started dating my current partner about a month and a half ago.

Yesterday, I wrote to them:

So I've been scouring Tumblr, and also looking a little in an aromanticism Facebook group I'm in. I wanted to better understand what some people have been calling "alterous attraction" for a few years.

I think now that I've read quite a bit on the subject today during lunch and stuff I'm pretty sure it's a term that describes what I feel pretty well. In fact before I met you in person i was already wondering if maybe instead of saying I'm gray-pan-romantic I could/should just say I'm aromantic, asexual, but pan-alterous with strong emotions not on either the sexual or romantic axis at all? I don't think it feels right either to drop the gray-aro label though. I kinda maybe currently like alterous as a description of the way my gray-aro-ness plays out, if you bear with me.

There's a page on this wiki about the word: https://aromantic.wikia.org/wiki/Alterous

But there are much more in depth personal attempts at explaining it that I think better capture some of it, especially on Tumblr

The biggest problem is after 5 years of trying to figure out which, if any, of my attractions are romantic, I still don't even understand what romantic is supposed to be describing really if you take monogamous inclinations AND the tying it to sexual feelings both out of the equation. It's one of those "if you still don't know after 5 years you're definitely aro as romantic attraction is a know It when you feel It thing" However, I definitely feel certain things close enough to romance that It is impossible to just act like I'm totally clear cut aromantic.

It feels somewhat wrong to call what I feel for you right now "platonic", although of course it all depends on how broad an umbrella term platonic can be and how many emotions can fit in there.

In the asexual community and aromantic community people take for granted that the word platonic means nonromantic, and that things like friends with benefits could be sexual but not romantic and if they are nonromantic, even with sex it's platonic. That's where the evolution of the word platonic has gone despite mainstream society thinking platonic means nonsexual.

[Some places i frequent this was being explored.] Interesting takeaways there included that platonic actively describes *something*, but what that "something" is muggy be debated, but it's different in connotation than just the word nonsexual or just the word nonromantic. Aces probably saw the things usually described as platonic and inferred a different meaning than nonsexual - because sex and romance are so tied in most of society, they saw things that had love but were not of a romantic type of love what was most often called platonic and took it to mean that to fill a certain lexical gap without realizing that they were even changing the definition?

When queerplatonic was coined as a term the idea was queering what platonic could mean was necessary, to show how intense or deep "platonic" feelings could indeed be, but it was about the relationship, and the only words anyone was using for the attraction was still basically just "platonic attraction" or maybe "emotional attraction" etc but avoiding the word "romantic".

But the ace and aro conversations splintered in different directions and people who were involved in coining queerplatonic were into middle age adulthood (or like whatever we call being in your 30s) with less time for ace blogging and less energy for all the fighting against the exclusionists etc. And new people started saying that queerplatonic relationships were in between platonic and romantic, and even using the amatonormative phrasing "more" than platonic feelings in various ways, instead of just saying "different". When some of the older ace bloggers caught on that this word "alterous" was being used to mean what people had already decided platonic meant except saying it was NOT platonic, well... Idk there were kinda a lot of people i had been reading for years saying no they don't buy into alterous as a concept.

But now that I've had years to reflect on it, I think I've warmed up to the term, warmed way up and have been thinking for a little while that it might be the word I needed all along. One Tumblr post said it's the desire to not "date" someone as much as to "become family" with them.

One person on Facebook said:

I'm polyalterous and I've definitely struggled to explain it in ways that make sense to others, or at least to alloromantics. It's been a while so I might make more sense now.

For me it's like, there's platonic attraction and then there's that muddled with something else. I think the problem explaining was that I can't explain whatever it is it's muddled with.

Recently I saw another -alterous person describing it with colors. Like if romantic attraction is red and platonic is yellow alterous attraction is orange.

But looking at that person's words, I think if you can't explain what it's muddled with, maybe alterous isn't clearly right in the middle but is yellow-green or something clearly distinct from romance, and like platonic feelings, but with something else too.

And a person who identifies as idemromantic (which they explain here) said:

...a wider variety of options! Romantic attraction is fulfilled by a romantic relationship, platonic is fulfilled by a friendship, sexual attraction is fulfilled by sex etc - alterous attraction, for me, is fulfilled by friendship OR romance, which really makes things easier. XD

The interesting dynamics here are that, if basically any of my friends asked me out I'd probably be game, but also, if I ask someone out and get turned down it's no big deal. Like I wouldn't be sad if my partner broke up with me, unless ze also decided not to be my friend anymore.

Another way I've put it is, I'm low-key in love with all my close friends, but in a way that doesn't demand anything but friendship to feel like it's fulfilled?

Also, idemromantic is basically defined as a type of grayromantic wherein whether what you feel is categorized as romantic or platonic attraction is determined by outside factors.

There is always variety in how people will experience a form of attraction, so obviously not all people who believe they experience alterous attraction (which is sometimes treated as a synonym for platonic attraction certain places, and sometimes especially as a synonym for the rarely used "queerplatonic attraction") will feel the same way about things.

But the more I read on it the more it kinda does feel like it describes my feelings pretty accurately. Alloromantic asexuals usually like kissing and cuddling and holding hands it seems like, and I know I'm demisensual for that axis of attraction (hugging and cuddling and other touch... but more than likely not mouth kissing at all). Aesthetic attraction is often maybe a part of alloromantic ace crushes too. But none of that is quite me. I think I feel alterous attraction quite fast into meeting certain select people...?

Other things like desire in the abstract to have a partner to go through life with have nothing to do with attraction, but I do also feel a type of attraction that has been really annoyingly hard to describe for too many years and I still want to describe it after all that time. So. I don't like just deciding I'm not going to. That isn't satisfying to me. Alterous as a word now feels more satisfying.

#aromanticism #aromantic #queerplatonic relationship #queerplatonic #alterous attraction #platonic attraction

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oldtvandcomics · 5 years

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I've seen some posts going around about Crowley/Aziraphale being queerbaiting in the Good Omens series. I'm afraid I will regret writing this, but I have OPINIONS, said opinions being less about Good Omens and more about Tumblr not necessarily understanding the way audiovisuel storytelling and the queer community work, and maybe it's worth taking a moment to think closer about these things.

Spoilers for Good Omens (2019) and some allusions to the Discourse below the cut. Also, long post. You have been warned.

I probably should say here that I liked Good Omens, am myself aro ace, and am of the opinion that Crowley/Arizaphale is canon. So yes, personal bias exists, although I am going to do my best to be objective. Also, I haven't read the book yet, so am only going to be talking about the series.

(Ignoring hereby that they are supposed to be agender. It is a very good series, but they really, REALLY should have found a way to include that piece of information.)

This is a surprisingly complex question, that can be boiled down to three different problems: First, the way people analyze audiovisuel stories (in this case, television, but the argument also stands for movies), second, the term “queerbaiting” not being clear enough and also used too broadly, and third, people's still too narrow view of what is and isn't queer.

In this order, I am going to start with the way tv (and movies) work. It is the least controversial.

One of the things that I love about tv so much is just how complex and layered it is. There is what is directly said and shown to happen, but than there is the music, the acting, the costumes, locations, camera angles and editing, all of which have their own language and add something to how we will see a story. If you watch Good Omens, you'll notice that the exact nature of Crowley's and Aziraphale's relationship never is directly addressed or them confirmed to be queer. However, you will also notice the way they keep looking at each other, the fact that romantic music plays in the background for an awful lot of their scenes together, that they do and say things on a regular basis that goes further than the normal limits of a friendship, and the list goes on. This show is as clear about them loving each other very, very deeply as it possibly can be without directly talking about it.

This, of course, leads us to the question: What is and isn't text? What level of queercoding counts as representation? And this is where things get a little more complicated, because there IS NO clear line. People usually say that it doesn't count, unless the correct term is used. Which makes sense, given everybody's tendency to just... Idk, make a movie about somebody fighting his ex without ever telling us that he is, in fact, his ex, and than hope that they can get away with either the queer fans doing all the hard work of reading between the lines, or just write a couple of tweets about how they're totally gay and get credit for the representation.

Seriously, people, don't do that. If there is a way to use the terms, do it.

But there is a gray area. Welcome to Night Vale never labeled Cecil's orientation, yet we still know that he's gay. That scene they cut from Thor: Ragnarok of Valkyrie leaving the room of a woman? It never said that she was bi. I mean, I haven't seen it, but from what I know, I'd bet A LOT of money that, had they included it, people still would have complained about it not being clear enough. We still act as if including it would have confirmed Valkyrie's bisexuality. What about period pieces, set in times when certain labels didn't exist yet? And, finally, what if a relationship would actually benefit from being left vague and undefined?

There is no clear answer to this. It's a gray are, so feel free to just sit around and think about your own opinion on these things.

Which leads us to queerbaiting: Creators playing up the fact that they MIGHT have a queer character or relationship in their work for publicity, without ever planning to include it. It's a thing that happens both inside and outside of the story. In practice, this usually looks like putting in a lot of subtext between two same-sex characters, including suggestive scenes in the trailers, and going in interviews “well, they could be, it's an ongoing series, you'll just have to wait and see. ;) ”.

Queerbaiting is a VERY vague and very popular term, that is used very broadly, even in cases where it isn't exactly accurate. It is not exactly easy to tell what is actual queerbaiting, and what queercoding because Higher Powers wouldn't let the creators include openly queer characters in their work. Than there is of course the cases where queer characters are kind of there, but it's a blink-and-you-miss-it thing. I've heard the term “queercatching” used for that in a video. Also, queerbaiting is an accusation people like throwing around every time a show disappoints them by not making their OTP canon. (Stop doing that, PLEASE!)

In this context, it is understandably difficult to say if a certain ship is or isn't queerbaiting. However, I would argue that Crowley and Aziraphale are not. I haven't seen all the promotional things going on, so no idea how big of a selling point their relationship was. But I do know that everyone behind the scenes seems to agree that those two love each other very, very deeply, and the show itself isn't trying to hide it. On the contrary, it goes out of it's way to draw our attention to it. To anyone who is watching halfway attentively, it is going to be very, very clear that what those two have going on is NOT straight.

Which leads us to our final point: What is and isn't queer.

Oh dear. It is a topic that is still hotly debated within the community (at least on Tumblr), mostly by people trying to exclude certain orientations or keep other people from using certain terms.

Queer is an umbrella term used for members of the LGBT+ community, meaning “not straight”. It may refer to gender identity, romantic or sexual orientation, and things that don't quite belong in any of the boxes we have. The beauty of the term “queer” is exactly that it is so huge and so vague that it exceeds all boxes and definitions. A really handy thing to have, if you want people to know what you're talking about without needing to give them an hour-long vocabulary lesson first.

Please note here that so far, I have avoided using any labels for Crowley, Arizaphale, or their relationship. Please also not that while I did say that they love each other very deeply, I never used the word “romantic”.

Because here is the thing: I really don't think that they're gay. Or bi, or pan. Or anything else, really. They, and their relationship, like the term “queer”, fall outside of any predetermined categories. It is just, really, really, really clear that what's going on isn't heteronormative.

I have seen many aces being happy and feeling seen and seeing themselves in Crowley and Aziraphale in Good Omens. I've also seen many aros think the same thing. Because here is the beauty of it: We only know that they love each other more than anything else in the world. It is never said that that love is romantic.

I've also seen many allos completely miss this point.

Asexuality and aromanticism, as is to be expected from orientations that are defined by the lack of something, are still very invisible, both in RL and in fan circles. While we do have our own spaces and our own little community, mostly we are just there between our allo friends and... kind of stand and wait in a corner while they are busy with the sex and romance our society is constantly throwing at all of us. Being ace and/or aro is often confused with “being celibate”. We don't talk enough about what sexless or romanceless relationships could look like. No wonder so many people missed it when they saw one in Good Omens.

The queer community is STILL very strongly sexualized. And this is a problem, because while sexual attraction IS an important part of being queer, it is also not the only one. Queer people are still queer if they are not having sex. They are queer if they DON'T WANT TO have sex. They are queer if they don't enter romantic relationships. There is nothing straight about the close bonds aros can have with their friends. There is nothing straight about having a friend be the person you are emotionally closest to, close enough to openly beg them to run away together. Multiple times.

Queerplatonic or quasiplatonic relationships are the ones that are a bit difficult to define, because they are somewhere between “friendship” and “romantic relationship”. What they look like depends really on what the people involved want them to be like. Some live together, others don't. Some do things together that are usually considered to be romantic, others don't. Some kiss or have sex, others don't.

So far, I haven't really seen anybody really talk about the existence of queerplatonic relationships outside of ace and aro circles. And while I aggressively headcanon Sherlock Holmes and John Watson being queerplatonic, this was the first time that I've really seen an actual relationship onscreen that can be easily, or even best, read as being one.

But almost by definition, this means that it has to be vague, and subtle, and floating around somewhere around the lines separating friends from romantic partners. As such, I think that Good Omens did a really good job, giving us a relationship that is so obviously loving but also so beyond easy descriptions. However, this also means that it is easy to miss and end up feeling baited.

The problem is, I'm not sure that they COULD have done it better. Any explicit discussion about Crowley's and Aziraphale's relationship would have felt forced and out of place, and the term queerplatonic isn't enough known, they would have had to follow it up with an explanation of what that even is. And it isn't as if they could have made it any clearer how much they love each other as they did.

Some people say that they should have kissed onscreen.

Betty and Veronica in the Riverdale tv series kissed, and we all still know that it was only queerbaiting.

And isn't that, wouldn't that be, in the end, reducing queerness once more to the sexual bit in queer relationships?

I don't know. As I said, there is no clear answer, and in the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I suppose, the best I can say is that what Good Omens did with Crowley and Aziraphale is very beautiful and well executed and also undoubtedly queer. It is, also, not enough. We still live in a time where we don't have much representation, and therefore all collectively jump on anything we can find. As long as this is the case, people will always be unsatisfied with everything. We need more. More explicit, more sexual, more romantic, yes, but also more quiet and subtle and undefined loving ones.

Anyway. I just had to write my opinion on this, because I REALLY didn't like what looked like a group of people dismissing a queer relationship because it wasn't sexual. This isn't even about Good Omens, not really, more about Tumblr being generally Tumblr and not seeing nuance and not thinking things through.

So... Please learn how to properly analyze audiovisual stories. Please be more careful and think a little before you start throwing around the term “queerbaiting”. And, please, PLEASE take a minute to think through if what you are doing isn't in fact sexualizing queer people and excluding parts of the community because of a too narrow definition of queerness.

And finally, PLEASE leave Gaiman alone. One, he has no obligation towards you whatsoever, and two, this was originally a thirty year old book that, three, he co-wrote with a now deceased friend. Being critical of media is one thing, and obviously, Good Omens isn't perfect. But... Just think about what you're doing before you do it, ok?

#good omens #crowley/aziraphale #my opinion #long post #queer representation #queerbaiting #queerplatonic ships #asexual #aromantic #aro / ace relationships #it's not many people who said it #and there are always some idiots who don't agree with me #in the end of the day #it's up to personal interpretations #but this is a bigger and more structural problem #and good omens just gave me such a good reason to talk about it

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