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postmodernmulticoloredcloak · 1 year

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I’m curious about Steve Rogers’ “dark side” and your thoughts on that in the MCU! I don’t recall seeing Cap’s dark side in the MCU tbh.

Hello! This is an excellent question and I hope you don't mind my answer being very salty. Because it is one of the things about the MCU that turns me into a bloodthirsty beast out for Marvel executive jugulars.

Now, the concept of Steve's "dark side" is introduced in Age of Ultron, in an exchange between Tony and Steve where Steve says that Tony hasn't "seen yet" Steve's dark side. It is obviously foreshadowing for Civil War, were, supposedly, we . . . see Steve's dark side.

Except we don't.

Except Marvel wants us to see Steve's choices in Civil War as driven by Steve's dark side.

Except they're not.

Nothing Steve does in Civil War is morally reprehensible, unless we agree that he should have just punched Tony in the face right away and that being polite for so long was in fact wrong of him. (This is mostly sarcasm with an edge of truth.)

So what is supposed to Steve's dark side? According to the creators' official version, Steve's . . . selfishness? In putting his own priorities (Bucky) before the group (the Avengers). He broke up the Avengers to pursue his personal interest. Right? Wrong, of course. The Avengers break up because Tony pursues a morally reprehensible line and Steve does not accept to follow him through it.

But hey. They tried to make a "balanced" conflict where both parties had some good points. They failed. But I guess they tried.

But! Not only the Avengers thing. Steve's dark side is also . . . preventing Tony to pursue his revenge over Bucky. Because that's what the excange in AoU foreshadows, right? The big conflict between the two characters in the scene.

Except Steve is doing the morally right thing in preventing a man from committing an extrajudicial murder of a person who was not accountable for the actions in question. (Actually even if Bucky was actually guilty of the crime, acting as judge, jury and executioner would still be wrong, although understandable. But Bucky was not accountable at all, and Tony knew that - Tony was aware of the conditions of Bucky's unaccountability.)

In fact, before the final fight they do reconcile, or at least they’re on their way to reconcile, before Tony decides that it’s his right to attempt to extrajudicially execute an innocent. So this is not even about the accords anymore, and, again, this is . . . you know . . . kinda on Tony. (The creators also confirmed that a large part of Tony’ motivation for murdering Bucky was to hurt Steve, which makes it worse.) Steve was just like. Um I don’t want my friend to be murdered.

So, what's Steve dark side? According to Marvel, his attachment to Bucky over his attachment to the Avengers. And this is the part that makes me bloodthirsty the most: it's homophobic af! Ironically, Marvel execs would die before purposely making Steve Rogers queer, and yet at the same time they managed to be homophobic to him. Spectacular.

The bond between Steve and Bucky, no matter what the MCU tries to say, it's obviously . . . ambiguous. It is a very strong and emotional bond between two men. Steve's attachment to the Avengers, on the other hand, is dramed as a familial bond, the Avengers being a "family" that Steve breaks up because of Bucky. So the ambiguously homoerotic bond destroys the familial bond. I don't need to say how same-sex relationship have been long accused to being destructive of the good, healthy familial bonds of our society!

In fact, the “nu-uh, no gayness here, nope nope nope” attitude of Disney towards Captain America wasn’t actually a thing yet when they were making the movie. (Civil War I mean). At some point, when the movie was almost finished, someone intervened and the movie was tweaked to make it ~less gay~. But at first the movie was being made purposely ambiguously gay! So it’s not just my fervid hysterical imagination. Steve and Bucky’s bond was intended to be, while not gay-gay because that doesn’t happen here, but kinda-gay.

So. The homoerotic bond is toxic and destructive of familial bonds. A man’s dark side is his attachment to another man. Yay. Fun.

At least that was the intention, because as you say there’s hardly ever something that can be called a “dark side” in Steve because whatever he fights for is a good cause. Bucky is an innocent who’s wrongly persecuted after being heavily victimized. Preventing him from being killed on sight for a crime he had not in fact committed at all is a good cause, even if they had no bond between them. Refusing to sign the “accords” is a good choice because the storyline was ridiculously, offensively written they made no fucking sense and also, you know, human rights. Stopping Tony from extrajudicially executing a man for actions the man was not accountable for is a good cause.

So, yeah. Bad writing plus bad writing equals a confusing mess.

#groovy-lady #not mcu friendly #not civil war friendly #mcu

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presdestigatto · 11 days

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what was that video supposed to show me… the absolute lack of enthusiasm in that garage for 55… him & charles andrea joris mutually ignoring each other… silvia this is not making things better

#shanghai 2024 #this one looks bad like why would u put that out #andrea’s literally a statue until he moves past and there isn’t a single smile #this is an attempt at a save but it’s making me think thoughts rn😭#apart from some curiosity i dc whether they get along or what but this is like the opposite of friendly??#why would u show us footage of the civil war keep that at home

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musclesandhammering · 6 months

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On Narrative Bias

I keep saying it annoys me how Wanda has done so many evil ass things and is never held accountable for her actions, and it never fails that someone tries to respond with “but aren’t you a loki stan? He’s done evil shit too! So you have a double standard and are a misogynist!!!!” Yeah, no. The difference is that you can clearly tell who the writers have predetermined as a hero vs a villain. You can tell who they want you to root for. Loki’s actions are given narrative consequences as harsh as possible, while Wanda’s are narratively excused and softened and sympathised. Let me show you what I mean.

* Loki commits treasons, tries to kill his brother & attempts genocide -> Loki’s father rejects him while he attempts suicide

* Loki tries to conquer earth -> Loki is sentenced to life in prison

* Loki incapacitates the king and secretly takes the throne -> Loki is threatened with a hammer to the face, we’re reminded how awful he is by all the other characters for the rest of the movie & he would’ve faced more consequences if the apocalypse hadn’t interrupted

* Loki steals the tesseract from the vault -> Loki watches his brother be tortured & then has his neck snapped

Now compare that to…

* Wanda willingly signs up to work for a nazi organisation, tries to help an evil robot murder the avengers, intentionally sets the hulk loose on a town of innocent people, & helps destroy Sokovia for a lil while -> Wanda gets a fatherly pep talk from Clint & is immediately accepted as an Avenger

* Wanda accidentally murders a bunch of people while on a mission -> Wanda is put on temporary house arrest in a giant mansion with her boyfriend

* Wanda buries her boyfriend/teammate under like 10 floors of concrete, breaks out of house arrest, & goes against a government order -> the leader of the superhero team defends her, a grown ass woman, by saying “She’s just a kid!”, she’s detained in a government prison for like a week maybe (?) during which she’s shown as a sad helpless victim to encourage sympathy from viewers, & then she gets busted out by the ex-team leader & eventually gets to run off to Scotland with her boyfriend

* Wanda holds an entire town hostage & tortures them just to fulfil her own grief-fuelled fantasy -> one of the women Wanda attacked reassures her that she’s the actual victim in all this and that the people she tortured just have no idea what she’s sacrificed for them & she escapes to an isolated location to read a forbidden demon book and make herself more powerful without anyone interfering

* Wanda goes on a serial killing spree across the multiverse, kidnaps a child, holds her hostage, tortures her, & attempts to take her powers all so she can steal another Wanda’s children because she misses her children that were never actually real in the first place -> Wanda gets some badass power sequences and #girlboss one liners, is the one that destroys the demon book, essentially saving the multiverse from future corruption, & is allowed to die a hero’s death (which we all know isn’t permanent)

See the difference?

#Wanda stans PLEASE dni #loki meta #marvel meta #if you’re gonna make a pro Wanda argument please stay off of my post. respectfully.#anti wanda maximoff #anti scarlet witch #anti wanda stans #Wendy mayomoff #Wanda critical #Wanda maximoff critical #not Wanda friendly #captain america civil war #cacw #multiverse of madness #avengers aou #avengers age of ultron #marvel wank #mcu wank #negativity

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sunnysideprincess · 11 months

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I get "justified" hate from Tony-antis because it was "wrong" for him to go after Bucky and Steve, even after being confronted to the truth of his parents' murder so brutally, after Steve lied to his face and probably used Tony's resources to go after his mother's (unwilling, brainwashed, I get it) murderer. Tony's rage at this betrayal is reduced to a "tantrum" or just a "stupid man-pain" by so called fans and that he is the villain for going after an innocent man.

Meanwhile Wanda Maximoff and her brother saw Tony's surname on a missile that blew up their home and they immediately joined a Nazi cult for their quest for revenge. Instead of going directly after Tony Stark, or the people who actually blew up their home—Wanda decided to destroy an entire city by unleashing Hulk on them, mind fucked a man so he creates something that nearly destroys the entire planet and thought it was all fine and dandy to be on the side of something that felt no regard to human pain until she realised "oh shit, maybe this evil robot's plan would kill everyone, including me" and the fans dub her a "hero", a "traumatised sad child" who lost so much.

People paint Tony as the bad guy for calling Wanda a weapon of mass destruction in CW forget that this is coming from the man who was shown a vision of all his friends dead near his feet while his worst nightmare comes to play by her. Who knows and has seen what she's capable of. Yet he still keeps her fed, housed and bathed in luxury via his own "blood" money, makes her armor and tries to protect her from Ross' wrath.

Flash forward to Tony dying for the universe after finally getting a life worth living for and people saying "he didn't deserve the elaborate funeral mcu gave him" and then theres Wanda holding an entire town hostage and getting thumped on the back for being so sacrificing and kind by both mcu and her stans

#response to vague anon hate i keep getting #cacw #captain america civil war #tony stark #anti wanda maximoff #not steve friendly either #random triggered stucky stans can also buzz off #I'm lookin at you anon #anti team cap stans

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marvel-lous-guy · 1 year

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Peter: I discovered the best power move

Tony: Oh yeah? What is it?

Peter: just look someone in the eyes and tell them "I talked to my therapist about you" then never elaborate

Tony: that's pretty good actually

Peter: I know right! You have to wait for the perfect timing though, you don't want it to seem like you want them to know that, you know?

Tony: Oh yeah, I completely agree.

Tony: *3 minutes later* HEY STEVE! GUESS WHAT! I TALKED TO MY THERAPIST ABOUT YOU!

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psyzook · 1 year

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Team Cap (especially Steve) only got off easy because the avengers have plot armor. The whole world could have sued them six ways to Sunday like it would have happened if it were real.

#anti team cap #not steve rogers friendly #not team cap friendly #team iron man #civil war team iron man #not civil war team cap friendly #mcu #marvel cinematic universe

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obsessive-aspie-girl · 2 years

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I came across THE ABSOLUTE BEST comment on an AO3 MCU fic!! The person who commented it even cited their sources proving what they were saying by turning part of the sentence into a link -- multiple times! Idk how to do that so I'll just leave a link to the original for anyone interested in those, and paste show off the comment here!

**Warning: Please mind the tags! Within the MCU you either hate this type of fic--and therefore comment--or you're still just a salty and full of rage as you were when it all first started going downhill in 2015. In other words: Civil War Team Iron Man.**

THE COMMENT (which was a reply to a hate comment about how "amazing" and "perfect" Captain America is):

"Yes, Steve Roger is all of those things. In the comics. 616 Steve can do things like defeat two other Super Soldiers when his Serum has been turned off. He's actually a Captain instead of it just being a stage name, due to, depending on the writer, either actually going to Officer School and blitzing through it, or receiving the equivalent of Officer School training while "on the job." In the comics, Steve Rogers earned his rank under the code name of Captain America, and his "secret identity" was that of the bumbling Private Rogers. MCU Cap actually is the bumbling Private Rogers, but is treated like a trained genius tactician undeservedly.

Comics Steve Rogers is also of far better moral character. He's the sort of person who would throw his shield to alter the trajectory of someone falling in order to avoid civilians being hurt. MCU Steve Rogers is never shown caring about the people hurt in Bucharest, and has no problems treating a German SWAT team the same way he did Crossbone's goons. When in the comics everyone finds out that it was Cap's evil Hydra clone who did all sorts of terrible things, Steve admits to HYDRA Cap that he's actually glad that, thanks to HYDRA Cap, people no longer trust him as much as they did in the past, as he's actually never been comfortable with people blindly trusting him or anyone else. MCU Steve demands that people blindly trust him to have their best intentions in mind. 616 Steve has enough willpower to break free of mind control straight away; MCU Steve got stuck in Wanda's illusions like everyone else.

Also, when 616 Tony isn't being written by stupid writers as a fascist, Steve is pretty much the founder and president of the Tony Stark Defence Squad. Anyone talks crap about him, Steve reminds them of how many people his tech and charity work has helped, and on a more personal level actually appreciates how much Tony has done for him instead of accepting it as his due for saving the world once a year.

Comics Steve is respected because he deserves it and has earned it; MCU Steve demands it like an angry toddler, claiming that he's a good man when in reality he's just not as big of an asshole as the Red Skull.

The sad part is, it would have been so easy to salvage Steve's character. Show him sending a coded message to JARVIS during WS, and later say Fury mention that Tony, even with his suits all blown up, was standing by to ensure that all the non-Hydra stuff was taken off the net so that no innocent SHIELD employees were hurt and no US secrets were leaked. About 5 seconds of footage.

Show him trying to contact Tony when Wanda talks crap about Ultron being just like him to prove her wrong, and getting concerned when there's no answer and heading back to Stark Tower just to be sure. Don't show him already be in the process of charging forwards and drawing back his fist to throw a punch at Tony before his chest piece ever arrives. Add two seconds of footage where Steve tiredly asks whether Tony can call another suit to pick him up from Siberia after their fight, and have that letter include an actual apology instead of Steve just trying to justify his actions. Give Wanda an actual redemption arc and have Steve feel like, even if she was HYDRA and people don't like her, she still deserves a chance to show she's not a monster like the Red Skull was. Show Wanda being horrified that the Hulk wandered into Johannesburg, and be reluctantly grateful to Tony that he stopped her from ultimately being responsible for the deaths that a rampaging Hulk would have caused.

Instead we have MCU Steve, who seems less and less heroic the more you think about his actions, and spoilt brat Wanda."

Link to original comment thread:

https://archiveofourown.org/comments/188589974

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fairytalegumiho · 1 year

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Sorry for the rant. I couldn't help myself from exploding due to all the stupidity of prop Tony.

When I saw it for the first time, I found this meme funny

It's not funny anymore because these so-called Tony props are using it to bash Steve, Bucky and Team Cap.

Two world war two veterans beat up an orphan kid with heart problems.

What do you mean by an orphan kid? Like kid? Steve is technically a 20 something old person and Tony is 40 something old man. All these 3 people are orphans again technically.

Tony had surgery at the end of IM3. He doesn't need arc reactor to survive and neither has heart problems.

It's not like he is defenseless either. He dons a Mark XLVI suit which includes all kinds of weapons like repulsors, unibeam, lasers, missiles etc.

So, What the heck guys. It's been six years. So maybe it would be better if you guys dial it down a notch.

#Team Captain America #team cap #Steve Rogers #Captain America #Bucky #james buchanan barnes #tony stark #iron man #not prop tony friendly #sebastian stan #rdj mcu #chris evans #civil war team Captain America #captain america civil war #winter soldier

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crazypantsjewels · 1 year

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When ArcticVulpix posts several new fics:

#THANK YOU #i love their fics so much #nice thing to come home to after work #arcticvulpix #civil war team iron man #team iron man #not team cap friendly

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phykoha · 11 months

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So much has happened in the first 10 minutes and I am not following any of it

What is happening and why is happening

#blah blah blah #Civil war live posting #mavel movies are not newcomer friendly jdjfjjsjdd #ive only ever watched the charactet specific movies #like spiderman- ironman- captain america- the movies that focus solely on them #but the avengers movies are so #AUGH #(lighthearted)#(not actually mad)

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ffiamgoku · 11 months

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A Custom gifset I made for my DC/MCU crossover story "A New Team: (Done Right)" Chapter 15. NOTE: The story is not friendly to Steve Rogers or Wanda Maximoff. Story Link: A New Team (Done Right) - Chapter 1 - iamgoku - Multifandom [Archive of Our Own]

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imhereboo · 1 year

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cutie

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jentlemahae · 7 months

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#this nctzen civil war rn is so dumb #ppl are actually like ‘why would sm go harder to promote a group that will be fully active for the next 6 years rather than a group whose #members are about to start enlisting and whose music is not gp friendly at all’ do yall ever think #honestly these days ive become so convinced that if most kpop fans managed a kpop company they would go broke in a week #it reminds me of that insane idea ppl have that idols should get 50% of profits fshshsjj lmao ????#anw ncity civil wars are always funny but especially bcs i just know wayvzens are on the side like 🕴🏻 we dont even get cbs

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stairnaheireann · 7 months

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#OTD in 1892 – Death of Patrick Sarsfield Gilmore.

Patrick Sarsfield Gilmore served as a musician and stretcher-bearer in the 24th Massachusetts Infantry during the American Civil War. His incredible post-army musical career includes penning “When Johnny Comes Marching Home”, the tune he took from an old Irish antiwar folk song, “Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye”, that was published under the name Louis Lambert. He performed some of the biggest musical…

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#24th Massachusetts Volunteers #American Civil War #Ballygar #Calvary Cemetery #Charles Stewart Parnell #Clan na nGael #Co. Galway #Friendly Sons of St Patrick #Gilmore&039;s Concert Garden #Madison Square Garden #Michael Davitt #New York #Patrick S. Gilmore #Patrick Sarsfield Gilmore #Queens #Songwriters Hall of Fame #The Great Hunger #Union

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yotsubaayase · 2 years

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So, was anyone going to tell me the not steve rogers friendly tag is finally official or was i supposed to find out by myself??!!!!!

#not steve rogers friendly #civil war team iron man #captain america civil war #ao3

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the-lastofellie · 2 years

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My self-indulgent Iron Dad fic has reached 10,000 hits and I know these numbers are nothing compared to a lot of stories but I am so overwhelmed that 10,000 people have read my deranged rambling 🥹

#iron dad #tony stark #peter parker #spiderman #tony stark and peter parker #not team cap friendly #because fuck Steve in civil war #fanfic #ao3

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