#anti steve rogers
“i looked at him smiling and laughing and my heart filled with love and i thought:
“yes i choose him, he is my person”
But what i failed to see was that he hadn’t chosen me to be his”
steeb doesn’t deserve queen Peggy. Watch agent Carter it’s an entire tv series which develops her character very naturally and makes her move the hell on and marry someone so much better than bleeb dodgers but oh well.
I believe you but also I don't feel like starting another show right now. when my life is together and I can focus on something. maybe. so like. see you in 13 years.
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dasjf;ldhfasdfjgjfdsaklfh lol your relentless quest to give mcu endless ideas to bring steve back and make the timeline make sense again... applause. it brings me joy. they won't do it bc they are losers with a capital L but you go on imposter coco. you go. i'm with you to the end of the li(n)e. or until i yeet myself back in time and come back old and crusty and disappear again by yeeting to the moon. 🤡
I know marvel won't do it but WHAT IF they do...... u see the dilemma....... i've gotta keep hope until there's no hope left to have..... my clown shoes stay on
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ngl i feel like the way people placed far too much importance on peggys influence in steves life and their 'relationship' + the incredibly stupid fandom attitudes and convictions about how sexuality works that were super pervasive in the early 2010s led to how for a long time anyone who thought steve might be gay basically got attacked like. the idea that 'erasing' a cishet white relationship is actually discrimination was somehow a genuine take i still cant wrap my head around
tho i do wanna clarify i dont mean to like demean ppl who hc steve as bi in any way i think its a great headcanon but also i think people taking popular headcanons and making them into some unshakeable gospel in fandom is. not great and makes people forget that headcanons dont need reasoning and that its all pretend anyways ig? plus i really do think people just put all the undue importance onto straight white relationships like steggy even though theres basically zero indication of actual Love™
to me, Steve will always be bisexual. it's an incredibly important headcanon for my heart and I can't view him as anything other than bisexual, and that's probably due to the fact I'm bisexual and we're absolutely starved for any good representation of bisexuals and bisexuality and I love and adore Steve Rogers.
but!! I think it's vital that the idea of Steve being gay isn't something that's just shot down. clearly him being bi is important to me as a bisexual, so him being gay may be very important to gay guys and gals (or just, like, people who want to see him as gay, whatever their sexuality is). just because he kissed a woman once doesn't necessarily mean he was attracted to her; there are plenty of reasons a gay person might end up kissing/dating someone of the opposite sex, that doesn't mean they're not gay.
and Disney's never going to tell us he's gay or bi, so he can be either!! both headcanons are just as useful and interesting and important as the other!!
in the wise words of Mark Hamill:
and as for steggy... yeah. I saw a people after Endgame talking about how important Peggy was and how if you didn't like the ending you were just ignoring and erasing their love ("because you just want everything to be gay"). which is certainly an Interesting opinion. other people have gone into this better than I can, but yeah, the two of them were by no means definitely in love. infatuation, maybe? a deep mutual respect and admiration, I'd argue.
it's possible that they'd even confuse that mutual respect and admiration for love (considering that this would be the only sort of relationship that would be expected between the two of them - and clearly also the only sort of relationship a lot of people still expect between a man and woman).
I think Peggy was important in a similar way that Erskine and Howard and Phillips were all important to Steve. not to the same degree that Bucky and all of Steve's new friends/family in the 21st century are important to his story moving forward. and not to the degree that she was his inspiration/moral compass/reason to fight - that's all stuff that ought to have been attributed to his mother. but they decided to give the parental flash back to Iron Man instead of Captain America in the third Captain America movie, so they had to turn Peggy into all the things Sarah ought to have been to Steve instead, because straight dudes like the Russos and Markus & Mcfeely - the sort that reduce women to Mothers and Sex Objects - view those two Womanly Roles™ as interchangeable and I'm on the verge of an angry feminist rant now so I'll stop
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So Steve Rogers isn’t going to time jail?
Old man Steve is a skrull pass it on
if old man steve is a skrull I would probably cry and then proceed to never shut up about my beloved again
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Steve antis: we only hate on Steve because we love Steve, we just don't like his ending!!
also Steve antis: I wish Bucky would stab Steve to death 🤪
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I know I’m probably beating a dead horse at this point but I feel like it isn’t talked about enough how the accord do not and will never affect Tony the same way they’ll affect those like Steve & Wanda. Tony can always just blow up all of his suits again & go back to a fully normal life if he wants to. He doesn’t have to wear a tracking bracelet, or submit dna samples, or fear getting shoved into a straight jacket or electroshock collar if he gets arrested. I’ll I just don’t think it’s addressed enough how blatantly privileged Tony & other normal humans like rhodey & nat would be under the accords compared to their other teammates. No wonder they were so supportive of them from the beginning.
Ah, but what is fandom for if not the beating of dead horses?
I agree with you. I generally prefer the film over the comic event (granted I haven’t read it in a few years now), but I do like that the Civil War comic had more time to discuss those civil liberties issues. Like, the damn thing, as with most comics events, is annoyingly massive. Not if you just read the core 6 books of the main CW storyline, but the tie-ins, oh my God the tie-ins. Comic events and their damn tie-ins…
For the sake of telling a fuller story though, I do like that the comics had so damn much. There was much more room for side content, for lesser characters who aren’t in the MCU, or weren’t, at the time. There’s a fuller picture of why various people are taking the sides they do. Some of those reasons make more sense than others, but yeah.
There’s a bit from the comics that I’ve posted before where Tony and Peter (mid 20’s, his own hero Peter, not Frankenstein, Tonky Jesus fanboy Peter) are arguing about the Registration Act—as it’s called in the comics—and talking about the civil liberties being violated. Being a 2006 book, it’s got a very post 9/ll, Guantanamo Bay theme going. The lack of trial, of legal representation, the prison that’s even worse than The Raft. There are several scenes like this as I recall, and yeah, the film is sorely missing them in places. You kind of see it with Team Cap in The Raft, but it’s very much a quick thing in the larger narrative of the film, and that’s annoying.
I’m not exactly advocating for this, because the film version with it’s smaller focus works a lot better in many respects, but I do sometimes think of the alternate reality where Disney Plus existed sooner, and Civil War was turned into a series instead of a film. Say six episodes, match the number of installments in the main comic event, eight eps if you wanted to push it. Then we could get something that delved deeper into what these documents actually say, what the public’s reaction to them is, how they would affect people besides our core Avengers group.
Show some kid like Peter who has abilities but doesn’t want to go out and fight bad guys, just wants to live a normal life. Show someone who can’t reveal their Enhanced nature to friends or family because it wouldn’t be safe for that person. Show the every day or every day-ish people (ala the Netflix shows) and where they stand on this. Wanda talks about people being scared of her after the Lagos incident and you kind of see that, but not really. Actually show that. Show the fears that people have of these Enhanced people, the legit and less legit ones, and show the other side too, the regular, every day people who still look at this and say hey, no, hang on, this is wrong.
Again, not necessarily saying I’d want this over the film, but if the Mouse overlords ever wanted to revisit that storyline and expand on it, I wouldn’t complain.
And yeah, people have talked about this too, but it kind of sucks the way the film handled everyone and their reasons for siding how they did. Steve is all about choice and keeping the government from abusing its citizens ala Hydra, Tony’s got his whole, we need to be kept in check thing, but very few of our other players land where they land because of the actual Accords. Nat doesn’t want her Avengers family to fall apart, and wants to maintain some control over the situation rather than none. Rhodey’s the career military man who (generally) follows orders and hey, if this is what most people want, we don’t get to just decide eh, no thanks. Panther doesn’t care about any of this, dude just picks the team that’s going after Bucky. Peter doesn’t know what the fuck he is actually fighting for, Tony didn’t tell him, Scott and Clint are there because Cap asked, and also, presumably, because of the danger the Accords would put their family in, but that second point is never explicitly stated.
And Sam…I feel like we really got fucking robbed with Sam, especially in light of what we’ve learned about his character in Falcon and WS. The film doesn’t much go into his reasoning, beyond the fact he believes in Cap, he’s Cap’s ride or die, etc. But given the history he has in Falcon and WS, again, we were robbed. Dude is all about making sure minorities aren’t oppressed, aren’t punished for existing. Dude is very much aware of the double-standards in this country. I know that stuff was written in later, but my God did we miss out on a Sam monologue about this in CW. Sam, who’s like Nat and Tony in that he can theoretically hang up the wings and be free of the Accords, but still takes the other side. Would’ve been hella interesting to see Sam and Rhodey’s little argument they have about it be an actual scene, an actual debate. Sam who knows of the US government and it’s unjust laws and abuse of power, knows it long before he hears of Isiah Bradley. Who has those nephews that will have to grow up in a post-Accords world. It just would’ve been super interesting to see Rhodey and Sam, both Black men who joined the military, one who left, one who didn’t, have an actual discussion on why they feel what they feel. Even discounting the finer details of the Sam stuff, the stuff that wasn’t written yet, it would’ve been cool.
And, of course it would’ve been awesome to see Tony and the non-powered on Team Iron Man (but mostly Tony) get called out on their privilege with this issue, but that of course couldn’t happen, because Tony has plot immunity. Let fire and lightning pour forth and destroy all who dare to question the wisdom of Tonky Jesus, praise be to Tonky and all he has given us.
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UGHHHHHHH apparently steve went back to 1949 at the end of endgame so the 1947 timeline branch from loki ep 2 may be something different :(((((((
me, absolutely wracking my conspiracy steve Brain for u: the timeline was changed in 1947 causing the Arctic explorers to find steve rogers almost 70 years earlier than they were supposed to. he is reunited with peggy in 48/49 and that is who we see in endgame. old!steve is an imposter and the real steve is stuck in the quantum realm. ty & good night
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Idea for the next season of FATWS. There’s an end credit scene for every episode. But the end credit scene is not related to the episode at all. While Sam and Bucky do whatever they’re doing that episode, the end credit scene is always the same two high school students.
They’re always walking down the hallway in between class complaining about what class they have next and talking about teachers. One of the students always has art. They talk about how amazing their art teacher is and their friend complains because they didn’t take art that year.
Everyday the kid has new stories like “He stood on a chair in front of us and said that he loved being tall, but he’s like 6 feet already. This man is very chaotic and I love him for that” or “We’re making landscapes based on different pride flags and he made one with the bi flag, he says he’s bi! Fellow queer!”
We only see this art teacher in the last end credit scene with all these awesome stories about him. Then in the last end credit scene, the kid walks into class and says “Hi Mr. Carter” and the camera pans to show Steve Rogers in all his glory, not old.
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Sorry I’m advance but one of my other favorite accounts just reblogged a Tony scene and people are talking about Civil War and how it made them Stan Tony, and how when they watch that movie they hate team cap👀 Then someone was all about how he was sleep deprived and how much pressure he was under and couldn’t understand how people didn’t like Tony because. Someone literally said that when someone says they don’t like Tony in Civil War they say “did you watch the same movie as me.” I’m baffled. Oddly enough someone else said, “he just wants to help everyone.” Sorry for the rant but I think people forget about what the accords are and what it would mean for people. Side note, I hope you’re having a great day/night 😀
No sorry needed!
I feel you man, I do. Honestly, I’ve unfollowed people based on similar posts when I was in especially Done moods, so.
Look on the one hand, the movie would’ve been a narrative failure if everyone was in favor of one side or the other, right? The whole point of the damn thing—besides giving the Mouse overlords more money—was to spark discussion, debate. Which, yeah, we’ll call that the tame description for what actually happened. But just, the thing was meant to split the fanbase so in that regard…winning? Thanks, I guess?
Film is also very obviously subjective, different strokes for different folks, so yeah, ten people can watch a movie and none of them are gonna see the exact same film. Let’s try to remember that this is, in theory anyway, a good thing. I just read a professional film review yesterday where I had the same reaction. What film were you watching, dude? Incidentally his reviewing partner said the same thing.
So honestly, no, they weren’t watching the same film as you or I or anyone else, because everyone brings their own biases and experiences and knowledge and interests into a thing, and that’s always going to flavor how it’s viewed. Again, let’s try to remember that this is good. In theory. Heavy on the theory.
That out of the way? Let’s get into Tony specifically so his uber stans can find this and scream at me on anon as though I just shot RDJ with a nuke.
Oh yeah, he was stressed. Oh, he was sleep deprived. Yeah, I’ve heard that. And that it’s Pepper’s fault, if she hadn’t left the poor baby, if she was there to rein him in, he’d be fine dammit, leave the baby alone!
Here’s the thing. You know who gets a pass on their shit behavior when they’re upset or tired? Actual babies. Actual babies and toddlers, and children, up to a point. Because they actually cannot always help themselves. Their bodies and brains are different, they have not learned better.
When you’re a 50-year-old man who’s supposedly the world’s bestest superhero, who wants, wants to be in charge of protecting the whole world? You need a little more self-control than that. The sleep deprived excuse works if you snap at someone before you’ve had your coffee, not for this. Roseanne Barr didn’t get to blame Ambien for her racism, Tony doesn’t get to handwave CW away because oops, I was tired.
Really? You’re a superhero, dude. Most of your teammates are tired too, that’s part of the gig. If you crash and burn this badly without your afternoon nap, fucking hang up the armor and go back to your billionaire playboy lifestyle.
Speaking of that, sure, right. It’s Pepper’s fault because she left him. Put aside the argument on whether that was justified or not (cough, it was and she should’ve stayed away even though they are adorable together). It’s not Pepper’s job to keep Tony sane. It’s not any partner’s job to do that for anyone. If she wants out, she has a right to that, without Tony going off the rails and blaming it on her. Seriously, he says part of the reason he backed the Accords was to “split the difference” with Pepper.
Dude. You were an asshole and you lost your girl. You destroyed all your suits, turned an emotional and mental corner in IM 3…and then relapsed 4 minutes later I guess because Whedon. Either way, Tony admits himself that he does not want to stop. So instead of doing that, or finding another partner who can accept that, you back an unjust international law that pits you against your team, your supposed friends? Go to therapy, have a pint of ice cream, cry into your pillow, send her more of those strawberries you sent her in IM 2 that she’s allergic to. You don’t go trying to change international law in ways that could ultimately affect millions of people because your girl left you.
Honestly—and thank God they didn’t do this but—the only way the Pepper excuse works in excusing his behavior in any way is if she’d died. Or been severely injured like Happy in IM 3. Still wouldn’t be okay, but, like Quill messing up their chance to stop Thanos because Gamora died, it would’ve been more understandable. Understandable, not excusable, and the way the MCU treats their women as manpain fodder, we’re probably legit lucky we didn’t get this.
As for him wanting to help everyone. He does in fact want that, I think. The problem is that his need to feel like he’s doing that is stronger than his rational mind, or his want to actually help in a constructive way.
Tony is too smart. He’s dumb as hell in many instances, mostly involving people and relationships, but he’s also too smart, and he’s been told for too long that he’s smart, and he’s bought into it. Ultron. Suit of armor around the world, protects the world, no more alien threats. It’s a simple concept on paper that fails in execution. So there are people with dangerous powers. Okay, we’ll make a set of laws to keep them from being dangerous, problem solved. But again, it isn’t.
Tony is not used to problems he cannot solve. He’s a genius, right? He can fix anything. He should be able to fix anything. That’s how he feels. But not everything is zeros and ones and circuits, things that can be fixed mechanically like his armors can. The people he wants to protect are not built that way. But he needs to feel like he’s doing something, because he’s terrified of what happens to the world if he doesn’t. So he creates these simple solutions to complex problems. The suit of armor, the Accords. They sound good in theory, but the problems they’re trying to solve are bigger than they are. And Tony, way back in IM 1, he sat back for years, clueless that his weapons were being used for bad things. He says it to Cap in CW. When he found out what his weapons were being used for, he went in and stopped it. Whether or not he should’ve known that already is a separate issue here. The point here is that when he found out, too late or not, he went in and did something about it.
Tony needs to do something about it. Again, go back to Cap in AoU, Tony’s nightmare sequence. Steve asks Tony why he didn’t save them. Tony’s ultimate nightmare is that he sits back and does nothing, and his inaction causes everyone to die. Which is where you get Ultron. Something he came up with because of what he saw in space in Avengers 1, then doubled down on in AoU. It’s where you get the Accords. Oops, he caused someone to die, he killed Charles Spencer. Must do something about that right now so it doesn’t happen again, and he won’t have to feel this guilt. He should be collaborating with others to come up with solutions (no Bruce in AoU doesn’t count because Bruce was dumb there), or at the very least, taking more time to think through the repercussions of the things he puts out there. But he doesn’t, because he’s got his savior complex that tells him that he alone can and must fix this, and because he’s too dumb to realize how not-smart he is in certain areas.
“We need to be put in check. Whatever form that takes, I’m game.”
Isn’t that what he says in CW, or something very close to it? Whatever form that takes. That’s the issue, right there, whatever form that takes. Realistically, yes, there should be laws regarding people with powers, the same way there are special laws pertaining to people who carry guns, or people who are licensed to fly planes. You have a thing/can do a thing that not everyone else does, so there are regulations pertaining to that thing. Laws change with the times, they always have. Some new technology comes up, eventually there will be laws that regulate it. As there should be, honestly. The issue with the Accords, Steve’s issue with the Accords, was not the basic idea. He says as much. He says that it could work, but there would have to be safeguards. Safeguards that are not in the Accords that Tony wants him to sign.
It's not a matter of oh, fuck the law, there should be no law governing these people, they’re above it. The problem is that the law as it’s presented here is unjust. There’s what, a month between Lagos and Ross coming by to tell them about the Accords? A month is not enough time to properly analyze such a big issue, Especially when you’re reacting out of fear, which is what happened with Lagos. People died because of an Enhanced person, an Avenger, in this case. Lawmakers don’t want that to happen again, they especially don’t want the political shit storm that comes with it. Damn, we look like we were asleep at the switch here, not having anything to throw at this problem earlier. Quick, let’s throw together this thing so no one can say we’re not addressing the problem.
Patriot Act of 2001, anyone? 9/11 happened, the public were rightfully terrified, the US said oh man, these are unprecedented circumstances, we’ve never had this before. Don’t worry though, we’re on this, we’re protecting you. The reality being that that bill simply gave the government too much power, most of it being used against people who were not actually threats, and it’s debatable, to say the very least, whether or not that law helped more than it hurt.
No law is perfect. No law ever will be. It’s not possible. We still have to strive for perfection though, have to aim there so that the laws we get are as close to fair as possible. Tony’s a big deal. If not for his “whatever form that takes” attitude, he might’ve been able to use his influence to pressure lawmakers into coming up with a fairer bill. Hey, I’m me, the public loves me, I will endorse this bill publicly and work on getting the rest of the team to sign, but you need to change this and this and this first, or no deal. Instead, he took the easy way out, the quickest, easiest way for him to feel like he’s atoned for his sins without actually doing anything. Whatever form that takes.
Tony’s not wrong because he backs the creation of a law that addresses these things. He’s wrong because he says himself that he does not care what that law does, specifically, so long as it exists. He’s wrong because he violates said law upteen times during the movie, while preaching to team Cap about what assholes they are for not backing it. He’s wrong because he cares more about feeling as though he’s tackled a problem than he does about taking the time to make sure that the thing he’s proposing is actually a good idea. He’s wrong because of what he does with Bucky, though that’s honestly a separate issue, for the purposes of this discussion.
Anyway, that was longer than I ever wanted it to be. Damn. Next time you see a comment about CW being the reason people stan Tony, just remember there are other people out there who stopped stanning Tony because of that movie. Everyone’s entitled to see a piece of media however they see it, and although the Tony stans are often the loudest, there are plenty of like-minded people out there who share your take on events. Block who you need to, unfollow who you need to, blacklist what you need to, and don’t let them get you down.
Hang in there, and have an awesome day :)
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If the price Steve Rogers has to pay to have a life with Peggy Carter is allowing 70 years of torture and dehumanization to happen to Bucky Barnes then the price is too high.
Honestly, if that is your only win condition then you don’t play.
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You ever think about how Steve was a father figure to Wanda? Like him calling her 'kid', getting all annoyed when he finds out Tony is keeping her locked up and instantly backing up from signing the accords, When he came down to help her in infinity war, (He would have done that for anyone on the team but still) And then do u ever think about how it might have effected Wanda when Steve came back in endgame looking like that. Just another traumatizing day for her Yeah anyway.
All in all Fuck End*ame™
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Old Steve Rogers is going to time jail for crimes against the Sacred Timeline!
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Fan theories, especially good ones, make me so sad but also frustrated.
Stop speculating and just write a fanfic, the real writers ain't that smart!
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minnie omg🤣, I convinced my mom to start watching marvel and by the time we got to infinity war she fell in love with steve (duh, infinity war steve deserves everything) and then when we started endg*me and she saw steve shave his beard she decided the movie would suck and requested we skip it 😭🤣🤣🤣
Ha, your mom is a MOOD, we stan! She clearly gets it. We all should've done that as soon as we learned Steve lost the beard. It was an omen..! Spare your mom fake Steve and let her remain in love with the real one, just like the rest of us 💙
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I know some people theorized that Peggy Carter made a cameo in Loki show and while that would be interesting, i really want Steve Rogers to also be a variant. Cause like one of my biggest problem with endgame is how out of character Steve's ending was and how it literally made no sense. Cause like him leaving everyone, even his best friend forever "i'm with you til the end of the line", for the so called "love of his life" (bruh like ??? was she ever tho) was literally a dick move, but it literally fucks up with his whole narrative and character development, that he needs to move on and find himself in the present. Also why the fuck was he an old man he's a super soldier AND Peggy carter got married and lived her life as a boss ass woman, so like ???? why screw that up for such a heteronormative ending ????
now imagine he got back to Peggy and the TVA is like "haha u thought this was it well nopee" and idk he gets mixed up in that and while that would still not be enough, it would at least explain how he came back to our timeline in endgame with like no help, why he was super old, because i assume he spent like decades fighting crimes, and it would still leave Peggy as the girl boss she is. It would also make me feel a hell of a lot better knowing that marvel at least didn't just toss Steve's whole arc in the trash for no reason.
but who am i kidding Chris Evans is no longer on contract.
But maybe in what if...?
TLDR, i want Steve rogers to be a variant cause it would kinda make sense.
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Why do people put that scene of Peggy shooting at Steve in montages celebrating her? Like you don't understand, if we are going to stan her we have to bury that footage so deep it melts. Either that or we start running with a skrull theory
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forever thinking about the people who said the best word to describe Steve and Bucky's bond is "soulmates" are the same people who wrote Endg*me
I am once again reminded of the time a fan asked if endgame provided a satisfying conclusion to the stevebucky arc and christopher markus said “yes. in that i think they’re both healthy enough to move on. steve has gotten bucky all the way to being a pretty much genuine hero” as if having a best friend you love and support, who is your actual platonic soulmate, is something you need to move on from once ur both in a good place...........
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