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#that thanos. dies in 2014 and there's a BRANCH OF THE TIMELINE

florida3exclamationpoints · 3 years

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I understand why people think that the only way to make an alternate timeline is to remove a stone bc Endgame definitely didn't do the best job at explaining everything. But Nebula killed her 2014 self. 2014 Thanos died. Gamora disappeared from 2014. And absolutely nothing was changed in the main timeline. And none of those events had anything to do with the stones. They were big enough changes that they created branches on their own. It's the same thing that Steve did. AND yeah the writers don't even understand it. I know they swear up and down that they were always planning that Steve was always Peggy's husband. But I don't believe them.

I think when they were writing TWS they kept Peggy's husband a secret for a reason. I think in their minds they were thinking "if we ever get to work with time travel, we can make it so Steve was the husband all along. We can keep it open so that Steve can be her husband if we get to do that." And then they started writing Endgame. And they started writing time travel. And they made their rules of branching timelines. And they knew that they wanted Steve to be with Peggy. So they did that. But they refuse to put the two together because it sounds cooler when they say that they planned it the whole time. So they have their old "oh yeah it would be cool if we could send Steve back and then we could say that her husband was always him" and then they have the time travel that they actually wrote and actually exists. But they won't put them in the same box.

Basically branching timelines don't rely on stones and that's what the movie told us. And Peggy Carter has 2 awesome lives. And Steve saved Bucky from hydra. Etc etc

#sorry i saw the other post about Steve making a branch and i couldn't contain myself lol #i just think that branches are not only what the movie says is canon but also a lot more fun to think about than a loop so why reject them?#but you do you #marvel #steggy #steve rogers #peggy carter #bucky barnes #nebula #gamora #thanos #endgame #long post

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ageofgeek · 3 years

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Thoughts about Endgame’s time travel and what it could mean for Loki

So I know a million and a half YouTubers and fans have already tread this ground before me, but I haven’t really read too many theories/explanations about time travel in the MCU (according to Endgame), and having just rewatched it, I wanted to jot down a few of my own thoughts about it. Strap in, guys - this is gonna be a long one.

The main time travel rule that Endgame seems to establish is this:

You cannot change your own past. Changing your past will not change your own present or future.

Okay, so this is a fair rule for time travel. If you travel to the past and change something, it will (presumably***) create an alternate timeline, but it will NOT change your own timeline.

However, things get...complicated from there.

1. The Ancient One’s explanation of time travel intersects with the infinity stones (i.e. the infinity stones are special)

When the Ancient One is explaining her view of time travel to Bruce, she says:

The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one of the stones, and that flow splits.

Now, this may benefit your reality, but my new one, not so much. In this new branch reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world would be overrun.

She illustrates it with a very interesting visual:

Now, to be fair, this sort of timeline is pretty common for visualizing time travel (that scene in Back to the Future 2 comes to mind), BUT I just think it’s interesting that it looks very similar to a visual we’ve seen in the Loki trailers at the TVA:

This is the first mention that Endgame makes of alternate/branching realities, which is intriguing. Because I just assumed that even though you couldn’t change the past in the MCU’s version of time travel, any change to the past would create an alternate reality.

This explanation, however, seems to imply that you can only create an alternate timeline by messing with the infinity stones in that timeline.

Bruce’s response supports that theory:

We can erase [the alternate timeline]. Because once we’re done with the stones, we can return each one to its own timeline, at the moment it was taken. So, chronologically, in that reality, it never left.

Again, Bruce only talks about their removal of the infinity stones here - not any other changes they make to the timeline (which they’ve clearly already made).

So, my interpretation of this is twofold:

Messing with infinity stones in the past creates an alternate/branching timeline, because it disrupts the flow of time created by the infinity stones.

Messing with anything in the past that is not an infinity stone does not create an alternate timeline. Either 1) it doesn’t change anything at all (i.e. when the time travel “ends,” the past gets “reset” to how it always was); 2) the changes somehow “merge” with the main timeline; or 3) the “changes” were actually a closed loop - it had always been this way, and we (the audience) just didn’t know it.

2. 2012!Loki escaping with the Tesseract

Now we get to our favorite God of Mischief, Loki, and his escape with the Space Stone in 2012.

By escaping with the Tesseract in 2012 (when he obviously did not do that in the OG Timeline), Loki specifically displaced an infinity stone from its proper place in the timeline.

Now, let’s look at how Mobius, in the second Loki trailer, seems to frame Loki’s actions (remember that this is a trailer clip and the lines could’ve been edited):

[The TVA] protects the proper flow of time. You picked up the Tesseract, breaking reality. I want you to help us fix it.

This seems to support the theory that Loki displacing the Tesseract created alternate realities and disrupted the “proper flow of time” (i.e. the OG Timeline). The phrase “breaking reality” is very interesting as well, implying that Loki’s actions didn’t just create alternate timelines, but specifically created bad ones.

3. 2014!Thanos, Nebula, and Gamora being displaced in 2023

So, now we come to the next big timeline screw-up: the fact that Thanos’ army from 2014 - including Thanos himself, Nebula, Gamora, and the Black Order - are all displaced from 2014 to 2023.

Everyone from 2014 except Gamora dies in the final battle. Now, it seems crazy that this wouldn’t create an alternate timeline. If there’s no more Thanos in 2014, then there wouldn’t be a Thanos to collect all of the infinity stones and Snap in 2018, right?

But if we’re going by the Ancient One’s rules, then it shouldn’t create an alternate timeline because it didn’t involve an infinity stone in 2014. Instead, there are 3 possibilities:

The time travel didn’t change the past at all. The way this would play out is that Thanos and Co. would leave 2014 and rejoin the timeline in 2023. But the moment that the time travel “ended” (i.e. the moment that Thanos’ army was through the Quantum Realm), the past timeline reset back to what it had been originally. So even though past versions of Thanos and Co. fought the Avengers in 2023, if someone (for example, Steve Rogers) were to return to 2014, they would still find Thanos and Co. in 2014, alive and kicking. I think that this is the most likely scenario.

The changes made through time travel merge with the main timeline. Now, I can see this happening with minor changes (for example, Steve and Tony stealing Pym particles from the 1970s), but huge ones like Thanos and Co. just not being alive? I don’t know how that would “merge” with the main timeline. So, IMO, this is probably not a likely possibility.

The “changes” were actually a closed loop - the past was always this way. This clearly doesn’t work for 2014 Thanos and Co., unless there is some power like the TVA intervening to fix changes to the timeline which aren’t caused by infinity stones, in order to prevent alternate timelines from being created. Under this scenario, Thanos and Co. were always meant to time travel from 2014 to 2023, and they did do that in the OG Timeline. But unbeknownst to us (the audience), the TVA stepped in and “replaced” the missing Thanos and Co. members in 2014 with alternate versions of them, preserving the timeline. In my opinion, if we’re going by the rule that changes to the past not related to infinity stones don’t create alternate timelines, then this possibility also doesn’t make much sense (in most scenarios - stay tuned).

4. Steve returning the stones

At the end of Endgame, Steve travels in time to (presumably) fulfill Bruce’s promise to the Ancient One - to return each infinity stone to the moment it was taken, thus erasing any alternate timeline that may have been created.

BRUCE: Remember, you have to return the stones to the exact moment you got them, or you’re gonna open up a bunch of nasty alternative realities.

STEVE: Don’t worry, Bruce. Clip all the branches.

However, there is one wrinkle to this: the Tesseract that they lost to Loki in 2012. This is the singular infinity stone-related screw-up that Steve isn’t able to fix. The one branch he isn’t able to clip. Presumably, this is why the TVA arrest and detain Loki and not the Avengers - because Steve’s replacement of the stones worked, and erased all of the other alternate timelines except for one.

Again, this is why I think the infinity stone distinction re: time travel makes the most sense. Because why else would the TVA only be focused on Loki’s disruption of the timeline when, to the outside observer, the Avengers messed up the timeline a lot more? Well, the answer is that distinction: all of the ways that the Avengers interfered with the past which weren’t infinity stone-related didn’t create alternate realities, and the Avengers then corrected/erased any alternate realities they did create by returning the stones to the moment they were taken. Except the Tesseract in 2012.

5. What is up with Old!Steve?

Here is where things get annoying and contradictory. Now, I can’t remember exactly what explanations for Old!Steve that the Russos and M&M gave, but I know that they conflict with each other (which is...insane, but that’s a whole other rant).

So let’s walk through it. Before Steve enters the Quantum Realm, Sam asks Bruce how long this is going to take. Bruce answers:

For him, as long as he needs. For us, five seconds.

Bruce then says to Steve:

We’ll meet you back here, alright?

Obviously, Steve doesn’t appear after 5 seconds. But Old!Steve shows up on a bench slightly off-screen by the lake, having lived a full life with Peggy (blegh, I know, it sucks, but I’m just going with it for now).

Since Steve presumably clipped all of the infinity stone branches (except the 2012 Tesseract one), we’re presumably in the realm of no alternate realities. By living a life with Peggy, he didn’t interfere with or displace an infinity stone (to our knowledge***), so he shouldn’t have created an alternate reality. Which means that there are, once again, 3 possibilities:

1. The time travel didn’t change the past at all. This would play out similarly to the 2014 Thanos scenario. Steve would time travel to the 1950s, marry Peggy, have a life with her in the main timeline (presumably making a ton of changes along the way), and then when his time travel “ended,” the past timeline reset back to what it had been originally (Peggy marrying someone else, etc.). Now, I still think this scenario is the most likely, based on all of the other things we’ve gone through. But this is complicated by the fact that Old!Steve doesn’t reappear on the time travel platform, which seems to suggest that he didn’t use the Quantum Realm to time travel to that bench, but instead simply lived until 2023 in the main timeline and knew what day and time to show up at the lake. So, if that’s the case, then when did Steve’s time travel “end,” and when did the timeline reset? I would argue that it “ended” the moment that Old!Steve’s life caught up with and surpassed his younger self’s departure in 2023. So Old!Steve was hobbling along next to the lake, with his past with Peggy still “changed,” up until the moment that young!Steve entered the Quantum Realm. The moment that happened, Old!Steve ceased to be living in a changed past - he was now living in his own future (the furthest in the timeline he had ever been). When that happened, the main timeline’s past reset, and Old!Steve’s life with Peggy was erased.

(This one is so complicated, I had to draw a diagram. RIP).

2. The changes made through time travel merge with the main timeline. Similarly to the Thanos scenario, I just can’t see this happening because it’s such a major change to the timeline. How do you merge 2 timelines where Peggy is married to 2 different people? Still not very likely.

3. The “changes” were actually a closed loop - the past was always this way. Now, oddly enough, THIS is the scenario that probably makes the most sense for Old!Steve, despite the fact that it definitely doesn’t work for any other non-infinity stone time travel shenanigans. In this scenario, Steve was always Peggy’s husband in the main timeline (we never did learn who he was), and the past was just a closed loop for him. He never left the main timeline, which is why he showed up on the bench in Endgame and not on the time travel platform. However, this also has its weaknesses. For one, as I mentioned in the 2014 Thanos scenario, in order for this to work and be consistent with other changes, the TVA (or some other higher power) would have to get involved. And two, this only works if you believe one of 3 scenarios:

Young!Steve, after getting out of the ice, never looked up who Peggy’s husband was, which seems unlikely.

Peggy somehow disguised/hid her husband’s (Old!Steve’s) identity all of these years, so young!Steve never found out (also unlikely, considering how high-profile Peggy was as director of SHIELD).

Young!Steve always knew that he somehow married Peggy, which would be super weird because that would mean that Steve would’ve known about the existence of time travel as early as 2011.

So we’re back to the “closed loop” possibility not making sense (although it is still a possibility).

Personally, I still think that #1 makes the most sense for non-infinity stone related time travel - the timeline doesn’t really change, it just “resets” after the time travel is over.

6. In Conclusion

This is my theory for the rules of time travel in the MCU, as we know them in Endgame (and supported by the Loki trailers):

1. Messing with the infinity stones in the past creates alternate timelines.

2. Messing with anything else in the past does not create alternate timelines.

3. Changes in the past which are not related to infinity stones are temporary, and the main timeline is “reset” to what it was originally after the time travel meddling is “over.”

Again, it is highly likely that this will turn out to be completely incorrect when Loki airs! But I’m just hoping that we’ll get some sort of explanation, because Endgame is a convoluted mess and we need some rules.

#mine #rant #meta #avengers 4 #avengers endgame #creative shit #loki #loki series #endgame #time travel #god this is long #nobody is going to read this but honestly i mostly wrote it for my own reference lol

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the-lady-bryan · 4 years

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What If..... Disney brought in the FOX Marvel properties?

Not that Marvel will do this, but it’s I think it’s a pretty cool idea, so if it takes your fancy, go right ahead and use it, oh fanfic writers of MCU fandom.

Disney bought Fox. And we all know that with that comes all those long lost Marvel characters we’ve been dying to see come into the MCU. Whether you believe all the rumours flying around or not, hopefully one day the mutants will return to the greater Marvel Movie landscape. In the meantime, here’s one way they could bring them in and not entirely ruin what came before....

Anyone who’s familiar with the Marvel Multiverse Designation Numbers knows the Fox films all have their own special number. Right down to the differing timelines created by Days of Future Past and the ending of Deadpool 2.

We know that Endgame had a shit ton of alternate timelines spring up, some of which may have canceled right out by getting the stones back to the right places... but others weren’t so easy to solve. I mean fuck, Loki from 2012 is getting his own Disney+ show and then there’s..... meddling old war heroes.... (lookin’ at you, you old star spangled asshole) as well as all the time travel and alternate timeline shit with Agents of Shield.

That said...

We also know the upcoming Doctor Strange sequel is going to deal heavily with the multiverse and have Wanda in it, too. What if the multiverse problem they’re dealing with doesn’t stem originally from THEIR timeline/universe?

Let’s just trim the fat and stick to JUST the timeline problems with Endgame and assume all the other problems work themselves out somehow. Now, the Endgame timeline branches are a pretty big fucking deal! 2014 thanos dead makes a timeline where he never comes to earth and snaps in the first place. 2014 Nebula dead and 2014 Gamora hanging around the present means that in that branch, Quill never meets Gamora. Quill is still part Celestial. Who knows how the shit with Ego is going to go down and totally fuck up now. Then there’s Loki in 2012 who’s gonna get his own show. Then there’s 2012 Tony who had a heart attack when he didn’t before. And then there’s 2012 Steve who 1) the HYDRA in SHIELD agents are now going to assume is on their side and 2) now knows way earlier that Bucky is alive. And we all fuckin know Pre-Endgame Steve Rogers will overthrow entire governments if he has to just to find Bucky fuckin Barnes. And don’t even fuckin get me started on wrinkly old Sad Johnny Bravo and his trip to the past. (Bitch still could have retired from being Captain America, and public life, gone to the goat farm in Wakanda with Bucky and lived out the rest of his days in peace but noooooooo 3 movies worth of build up for even the most epic bromance ever flushed right down the drain. She was meant to marry Daniel. Fuck off with that bullshit..... sorry..... sorry. Not the place for that. Another post another day.) So, these are all problems that may or may not resolve themselves. But let’s say they do. Somehow, and just create benign parallel universes. New places in the multiverse. That’s fine.

Only.... Disney has bought Fox. And Disney wants to capitalize on those Marvel characters they’ve been salivating over FOR YEARS.

How do we bring them in? Easy! - Multiverse disaster!

Everything can, at first, point to the branching timelines Endgame caused as the root of this multiversal disturbance. But with each movie moving forward after Dr. Strange, where we THINK whatever was going on is resolved, little easter eggs pop up here and there. Like tabloids in the background describing girls who can walk right through walls. Or a “man-beast with razor sharp claws”. A speedster spotted robbing an arcade. And as the movies progress, these little discrepancies seem like they’ve been there this whole time. But Dr. Strange and maybe Wanda are like “wait a minute.... something’s not right...” and they discover that their reality is merging with another. the old Avengers tower is bought by a scientist named Reed Richards and his family.

All these little things as realities seem to meld into one another, filling in holes that neither universe realized it might have originally had.

And eventually, when a third deadpool movie comes out, it’s not a reboot. Of all the movies from the Fox properties that get brought in it alone isn’t a rehash. Like, the first five minutes maybe before Wade cuts in and is like “so yeah.... when i uh.... shot the guy with no mouth and then saved my girl, i fucked stuff up.” - and why deadpool, specifically?

because in all the Fox properties, Wade Wilson’s ability of Comic Awareness (or would it be Cinematic Awareness while he’s in movie form?...) lets him know there’s already timeline discrepancies. Deadpool 1, he asks “Stewart or MacAvoy?!” Even though it can be reasonably assumed that the first Deadpool movie takes place in the new X-Men timeline because Xavier is still alive/around as are Scott and Jean who died in X-3 (as seen by the ending of Days of Future Past as well as the cameo scene in Deadpool 2 when Wade is taken to the mansion by Collossus.) So Wade Wilson, Deadpool, is the PERFECT character to be stuck in the middle of everything and because shit around him tends to go spectacularly pear shaped damn near every single time, whatever he caused to happen cannot be undone.

Additional - I don’t think the first versions of the Fantastic Four from fox (Jessica Alba, Chris Evans, etc) should be the versions brought in because Chris was Captain America and he’s now moved on to other pastures. This would be a good way to re-work the Fan4stic cast and get them a sequel that will also put them in-universe with the MCU.

#mcu #deadpool #doctor strange #misc marvel characters #idea

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mikasfangirlmodeison · 5 years

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Avengers Endgame - Let’s untangle the time travel mess! *SPOILERS AHEAD*

EDIT 1: Added some things about the Power Stone and Thanos travelling to the future.

EDIT 2: Changed some things in the diagramms. Added the missing year.

EDIT 3: A little something about Steve. (This is getting longer and longer.)

Shout out to @darth-darling for pointing out some things and telling me the missing year ;)

First things first: I have watched the movie and I loved it! It made me laugh, cry angry and happy - which is what a great movie should cause in the audience. Also I watched it only once so far - I’d like to have watched it at least 3 times by now, but I live in Germany and OV Versions aren’t that often shown in my local cinema - and I can’t stand the synchro. So yeah, they’re will most likely be some mistakes in this and I appreciate it if you guys would point them out so I can correct the diagramms and explanations along the way ;)

Also this will be a long post, but pls stay with me, as you might be less confused after reading this - no guarantees though.

Now the first thing we have to look at is how time travel works in the MCU.

I think this was pretty well explained by the conversation Bruce had with the Ancient One. Time is basically created by the infinity stones and can only be altered by using, removing or doing anything with them.

So while the original time line of 2012 looked like this:

it changed, when Bruce took the time stone from the Ancient One. But as was also explained, changing the past would not result in a change in your future but only in the future of the people in the past. Therefore, a new, diverging timeline was created, where the Time Stone wasn’t in New York anymore - directly effecting the upcoming events - of mostly Dr. Strange’s movie. Now, the original timeline, however, would still be there. So, we’d have two realities: one in which Dr. Strange’s events would happen as in the movie and one where they didn’t - nobody knowing exactly what would occur in this reality. The timeline would now look like this:

However, taking the stone back to it’s original time in the past would basically erase the alternate timeline along with anything that happened in it - only leaving the original timeline as we know it. Looking at the diagramm, this is what’s left:

It basically looks like the first one.

Now, we have to apply this logic to every infinity stone and the events in Endgame.

Therefore, let’s first look at the timeline for when every stone is where it should be. For clarity, I only included the events which were directly important and shown in Endgame - leaving out the rest like Ultron or Guardians 2.

Edit 2: The missing year is added now.

Now, let’s have a look at the events when our time travelling heroes took the stones. I’ll leave the battle of New York for last as it gets the most complicated there.

Let’s start with Thor 2. In 2013 Jane Foster came to Asgard cause she fused with the Aether - which is as we know - the Reality Stone. Taking that from her, Rocket and Thor create one new timeline directly affecting the events of Thor Dark Kingdom. Now they also take Mjölnir with them which you could see as a problem. But with the explanation from above, we know that this only affects the new timeline. In this one there’s no Reality Stone, no Mjölnir and Frigga still dies cause Thor didn’t tell her it was her death day. So, basically everyone’s fucked in this reality. The original one. however, still happens as seen in the movie.

Next is Guardians 1 in 2014. On Morag our heroes knock Star-Lord unconscious and then proceed to take the Power Stone back with them to the future - creating one new timeline. In this new timeline Star-Lord is basically fucked - which will however be reverted once the stone is brought back. However, this timeline brings a new problem, as Thanos and his crew hack into future Nebula’s brain and learn everything - resulting in them coming to the future. I heard people say they were confused about how the Snap would happen if these guys get killed there. But we have to remember that they’re alternate versions, so the original ones are still in the original timeline, doing their thing - which includes the Snap later.

Still 2014, Nat and Clint make their way to Vormir. Events happen as seen in the movie and there’s one alternate timeline in which Gamorra doesn’t die cause the Soul Stone is already taken. Here might lie a problem, but more on that later.

Sometime after Captain America, (as said above if anybody knows the exact year pls tell me) Tony steals the Tesseract, and therefore the Space Stone, from S.H.I.E.L.D. resulting in a timeline where Howard Stark met his own grown-up son. Luckily, he didn’t realize. However, this was only necassary since our heroes “slightly” fucked up in 2012.

Which leads us to the battle of New York in 2012 and the events of the frist Avengers movie. This is where things get complicated as we have 3 Infinity Stones here: Time, Mind and Space (again). If we assume that everytime a stone is taken, a new timeline gets created, we should now have a bunch of them. There should be timelines where only 1 stone is missing, where 2 are missing (depending on which stone was the first one taken) and there’s also 1 timeline where no Infinity Stone is left in New York. And some of them are branching off from the others. I’m too lazy to do the math right now, but yeah, you should get the gist of things being messy here. For convenience, I’m only including the important divergent timelines in the diagramm, which are 2: The first one being a reality where all 3 Infinity Stones are gone and the second one where only one - namely the Tesseract/Space Stone - is missing, cause our favourite trickster god took it. Which is also the reason Tony had to take the detour above in the first place.

Now, let’s take a look at the diagramm after the whole time travelling business. I present to you a whole mess of alternate realities:

Are you still with me? We’re halfway, now it’s time to get those stones back to their right times - more or less erasing the mess we created before.

While everything should theoratically be fine after Steve took the stones back, there are some issues we have to adress. But let’s start with the easy things first. Therefore, I should say that I don’t think it’s important in which order Steve travelled, although it’s save to assume that he brought the Tesseract back last.

Actually, the only EASY thing here is the Reality Stone. Bringing this one back just erases the alternate timeline and there are no other problems. Taking Mjölnir back is basically pointless since it’s alternate Mjölnir and it will get erased together with the other timeline anyways. But well, maybe Steve wanted to carry it around a bit longer.

Next thing I’d like to adress is the Soul Stone because I’ve seen questions about why they couldn’t bring Nat back. This is easily answered when looking at the explanation of the Ancient One again. Bringing back the stones erases the alternate timeline and everything that happened in it after the stone was taken. Now the important thing here is AFTER. Nat died to create the Soul Stone, so before Clint took it with him. Therefore, she died before the alternate timeline was created and there is no way to bring her back by erasing it. Now the real problem here is Gamora. As the Soul Stone was already gone in the alternate timeline she wouldn’t have died in this one. But she theoretically should be dead in the original one. The problem about that is however, that the Soul Stone is already created. Sure, it is in the hands of the guardian, but it is already made so there should be no need to sacrifice another soul. Unless the guardian is just cruel and likes to see that happen - but that would go against his whole purpose. I guess, he could just destroy the stone. But I don’t think it’s that easy to recreate it again following the procedure just the way as before, as it was obviously quite the deal when Thanos destroyed all the Infinity Stones after the Snap. So we might still have an alternate timeline here which wasn’t erased and which might affect Guardians 3 in the future.

Adding to the mystery of Gamora are also the events surrounding the Power Stone. Bringing this one back basically erases the timeline of Thanos and crew coming to the future - these guys basically never existed then - which should include Gamora. This might be underlined by the fact that the Guardians’ ship can’t determine her location at the end. So maybe she really was erased by bringing the stone back. But then again the eventual alternate Gamora from the Soul Stone timeline could still exist somewhere. However, this Gamora wouldn’t have been in the future, but should on the other hand be a part of the Guardians. It’s also unclear whether the snap would have happened in that reality, as Thanos couldn’t have gotten the Soul Stone by sacrificing her. Maybe he killed the Guardian though and took it from him? So yeah, this whole Gamora business really confuses me.

Edit 1: Regarding the confusion about Thanos learning everything and then disappearing into the future, it’s important to know the exact time he hacked into Nebula’s brain. If I recall correctly, the movie showed us this scene between Star-Lord getting knocked out by Rhodey and Nebula and them getting to the Power Stone. But I think it’s supposed to be simultaneously to Rhodey and Nebula taking the stone which would mark it the beginning of the alternate timeline. Resulting in it getting erased by taking the stone back, which means Thanos never getting to know anything. That way everything will happen as it’s depicted in the movies.

Here’s another diagramm for that:

Know that everything connected by a purple line belongs to the alternate timeline and will be erased by putting the Power Stone back.

On another note, if alternate Gamora exists, how would she get to the original timeline? She’d need to travel from another reality, another dimension, to this one. And the only way that MIGHT be possible would be using the Space Stone but oh wait, this one’s either destroyed by Thanos OR taken by Loki - which brings us to problem No. 2.

The whole reason Tony had to travel even further back in time was that Loki got away with the Tesseract after the Batte of New York in 2012, creating some of the confusing alternate timelines. While most of them - including the one where all 3 stones are gone - get erased when taking the Time and Mind Stones back there, we’re still left with that other reality where only the Space Stone is missing. So even if that whole Gamora business turns out that she’s just dead again and nothing happens after that, alternate Loki is still a thing unresolved. Which might be a problem since we’re talking about crazy Battle of New York Loki here and not precious Thor Ragnarok Loki. So this timeline might get fucked later. I hope the MCU does something with this - or else I’ll be very disappointed and slightly mad.

What’s left is the Tesseract Steve has, which he brings back as well - resulting in him staying in the past.

Well, lets look at the timeline after bringing back the stones, before we adress Steve:

As we can see most divergent timelines got erased again - only definitely leaving Loki’s, and additionally maybe Gamora’s alternate timeline. And I sure hope the MCU will do anything with that or else I’ll be very disappointed and slightly mad!

Edit 3: Now let’s adress Steve. While I loved the idea of him staying in the past and finally being able to be happy with Peggy, there are some problems with that.

As we all know, by 1970 she’s already married - to Daniel Sousa as we can see in the Marvel series Agent Carter. Now there are two possibilities:

1. Steve stays in 1970 woos Peggy again, resulting in her getting a divorce. Steve than marries Peggy herself. However, the problem with that is the end scene of Endgame where you can see Peggy and Steve dancing together. In this scene they’re both still fairly young - which shouldn’t be the case for Peggy in 1970. So this possibility is pretty much ruled out.

2. Steve leaves the Tesseract in 1970 and travels back even further to 1945 shorty after the plane crash in Cap 1. He then goes on the promised date with Peggy - resulting in the dancing scene we can see at the end of Endgame. Now, the problem with this is, that this rules out all the events of Agent Carter. Meaning this must be an alternate timeline as well. Now if that’s the case, how exactly is it possible for Steve to be on that bench later in the future as his old self? He would have to travel from his alternate dimension to the original timeline - only possible by using the Space Stone. Even leaving aside the how and when of him doing that, the usage would probably create some further alternate timelines, which would mostly likely result in some sort of mess again. Furthermore, he would have to sit still doing nothing while knowing about Hydra’s actions in the past and Bucky - making him kind of an asshole. Needless to say, I’m not that fond of this possibility either.

Which is why I thought about it some more and came up with a 3rd option. Now this is just my own assumption and there is no proof or anything for it.

But let’s say Steve goes to 1970 and leaves the Tesseract there. He then travels to 1945 and goes on that date with Peggy and they dance. But instead of staying, he leaves and disappears after that, staying in hiding. Now it’s safe to assume that Steve knows about Peggy’s family situation and her later husband Daniel - I mean he hooked up with her niece. As we find out in the movies, Daniel is already dead when Steve wakes up and Peggy is old and sick with Alzheimer’s. Now, the question is: When did Daniel die? For this theory to work out his death must have been a while before Peggy becoming ill. It would then be possible for Steve to return to Peggy after Daniel’s death, helping her through her time of grieve and marrying her way later - maybe even after her illness broke out. Of course, Steve would still be an asshole for letting things happen with Hydra and Bucky, but we shouldn’t forget that he knows it wouldn’t change anything in the future. And at least we wouldn’t have any more alternate timelines.

Let’s incorporate this option into our diagramm from before:

Now, I’m at the end! I hope I could get rid of some of your confusion - writing this surely helped me at least. As said before, I’d really appreciate you pointing out mistakes and the like. And thanks for reading this hella long post!

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punkrockgrantaire · 5 years

Text

Things that changed in the alternate 2012 timeline

Loki escapes after the battle of NY, with the tesseract in hand. He had his realization that he fucked up in the battle, but isn’t going to be trapped in Asgard prison and have the opportunity to replace his dad. but he is now free - with a stone of his own - to make more, different probably ridiculous choices.

Their Thanos is still around, as the Thanos that died in our timeline branched off 2014.

Steve has been warned about 4 years early that Bucky is alive.

The scepter disappeared for a moment in “””Loki’s””” hands but will have returned soon after, in stone form, in mysterious circumstances. We don’t know how Our Steve returned it.

Steve will think Loki knows Bucky, and will think Loki has had dealings with Hydra once he descovers that’s who has had the Winter Soldier.

Tony has had a very public event where his arc reactor has gone haywire. People saw it, including some hydra operatives, Loki, SHEILD, and others.

There’s so much.... to play with..... that New Universe smell

#endgame #endgame spoilers #avengers spoilers #spoilers #tony stark #steve rogers #loki #thor #spoilers!!!! srsly

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professorspork · 5 years

Note

Can you talk a little more about why you found Endgame devastating in a bad way and not a good way?

I sure can! I can talk a lot more, in fact! I’m going to put this under a cut because Ihave a feeling it’s going to get Quite Long (ETA: it is, this is 6k words I amso sorry) so if anyone just wants the tl;dr version, I recommend GaviaBaker-Whitelaw’s excellent article ‘How the straight agenda ruined Avengers:Endgame.’

If you want my own personal take, well. Enter at your ownrisk, here be monsters, etc:

First of all, the very short answer to your question: Itagged this photo as emblematic of all the ways Endgame was “devastating in thebad way and not in the good way” because, if I’m being really honest, Steve and Natbeing queerplatonic life partners (who maybe occasionally fuck but mostly don’t)was my absolute favorite thing about the MCU. (Yes, despite all the words thatfollow hereon about Bucky, I stand by Steve&Nat being my Absolute Favorite,because it was entirely about what was onscreen and nothing about the fanon thatfollowed.) And now it’s Gone and not only is it Gone it was Taken From Me, andI’m salty.

The much longer answer:

What’s maddening is that I honestly loved the vast, vastmajority of Endgame. I adored, like, 92% of it!! It’s just that the remaining8% is the part that’s a) most relevant to character arcs and b) permanent,which leaves me at a bit of an impasse. It’s hard to remember my delight overthe way Natasha laid down haphazardly over old take-out containers whilebrainstorming at her peak adorableness when she’s, y’know, dead. (Which isn’teven my biggest issue!)

I’m going to break it out by character, from most toleast irksome to me so we get the heaviest stuff out of the way and then by theend I’m just shouting on my lawn going “AND ANOTHER THING.” I’m also not goingto go into The Thor Thing, because I think everyone worth talking to is inagreement about that being fatphobic and offensive.

Okay, here we go:

STEVE

I fucking hate that Steve went back in time to marryPeggy. AND I LOVE PEGGY AND I LOVE STEVE/PEGGY SO I’M SO MAD THIS IS WHERE I’VEBEEN LEFT. I have tried to make my peace with it, I have failed, and I amhonestly not used to being this mad at a fictional character. I know it’suseless to hold it against him—something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately isthat argument some fans make about like “why are you slutshaming X characterfor wearing skimpy armor, she just feels most empowered riding into battle withnothing but a strip of leather over her tits” when like, the characterdid not make this choice, the writers made it be that way—but unlike, say,the characterization of Steve in Age of Ultron, which I can happily disregard becauseJoss hates Steve, Markus, McFeely, Russo & Russo have been the architectsof everything I love about Steve. It’s straight from the source! And soI… I’m taking it personally, though I know I shouldn’t. I feel like Steve turnedhis back on me and left me behind.

Well. Me and Bucky Barnes.

It’s probably no secret if you follow this blog that I’ma big Stucky girl. I have admitted it’s one of my top three ships of all time;my steve and bucky tag is 21 damn pages long. But I promise, I PROMISE, thisisn’t even about that. Regardless of whether or not you think these two are orever were in romantic love with each other, their best friendship is one of themost important and indelible parts of the MCU.

Steve’s emotional arc over the last several movies hasrevolved around his intense obsession with all things Bucky. He bailedon his concert tour, defied orders and became Cap-in-combat to save Bucky in1944. He tore down SHIELD, HYDRA and the whole world for Bucky when he foundout he was alive. He became a war criminal on the slightest chance he couldprove Bucky’s innocence! And then, when they were finally reunited, finally foronce on the same page at the same time, Bucky was taken in the Snap. And so,like. It seems a bit WEIRD to me that Steve’s heartbreak over the Snap isframed as a Peggy thing (see: him looking at the Peggy compass before their first act attack on Thanos; his talking exclusively about Peggyin the Snap support group he runs WITH GAY MEN) when Peggy died a natural deathafter a long life in Civil War and not, y’know, Bucky, his oldest, mostintimate relationship-haver, or even Sam, his best friend. It seems a bit ODDto me that we see dozens of cute, short reunions and meetings in the finalbattle with 2014 Thanos—known Extremely Important Relationships Tony/Dr. Strangeand Peter/Carol are given significant on screen exchanges—but we don’t seeSteve and Bucky reunite with one another. It feels a bit CONSPICUOUS to me thatSteve does not tell Bucky what he plans to do when he goes to take the stonesback, full on SUSPICIOUS to me that the two don’t say boo shit to each other—can’teven stand in the same group together when Steve comes back from histime vacation—and outright UNBELIEVABLE to me that Steve Rogers would choose tolive seventy years of his life without Bucky Barnes.

I just don’t buy it.

I don’t buy that after four movies of you telling me itisn’t the case, Steve Rogers’ happy ending doesn’t include Bucky. (Andwe’ll touch on the whole idea of what it means to have a “happy ending” in abit.)

It feels like a deliberate side-step. It feels like thecreative team tried and failed to come up with anything approaching a normal,just-two-bros reunion scene for them and with the weight of their past intimacyeverything they wrote came off as a marriage proposal so they scrapped itentirely. It’s insulting. Not on a “my ship didn’t go canon” level—I never in amillion years expected Steve and Bucky to ‘get together’ in any concrete sense,I wouldn’t even have known what to do with it if I got it, I never wanted that.All I wanted was for the text to honor the affection, the bond between thesetwo just as much as it did in any of the other movies. One of the best featuresof the MCU is its consistency when it comes to character detail andrelationship nuance. So how on earth (I know how, we all know how) did theydrop the ball on what is literally their flagship friendship?

But it’s not just that Steve goes back in time withoutBucky, or without saying a word to him about it. It’s that Steve goes back intime and then, apparently, does absolutely nothing for seventy years, includingsaving Bucky.

The time travel rules in Endgame are… unique. They areunprecedented. And it’s easy to tell that’s true, because not once have thedifferent members of the creative team been able to give a consistent answer onwhy or how it works in interviews after the fact. So like. I accept that mytake on this may not be the “canon” take, and until we get a post-Endgame moviethat addresses these things there IS no canon take. Regardless of what their “thisisn’t Back to the Future” rules means about whether or not changing the pastmeans changing the future, in the future all of these characters lived Buckywas on ice/doing murders until the events of Winter Soldier, also in which theworld learned SHIELD was HYDRA. The Russos think Steve created his own branchreality when he went back in time, and the question is then how he got back toour world to hand off the shield; Markus and McFeely don’t think that’s true;they think Steve lived concurrently to his own regular timeline and was always Peggy’s husband. YOU WOULD THINK THEY’D HAVE REACHED AGREEMENT ON THIS EITHER WAY BEFORE THIS POINT, BUT I DIGRESS. This meansthat either a) M&M are right and Steve went back in time and neither toldhis new wife Peggy “hey honey, you know that startup you’ve got going withHoward, maybe don’t invite Arnim Zola unless you want your entire legacy to beNazis,” nor did he save Bucky when he knew he was somewhere in Eastern Europebeing fucking tortured and brainwashed. He didn’t stop Howard and Maria fromgetting in the car. There’s a lot of joke tweets about how Captain America just“let 9/11 happen” and like—it’s a joke but it’s also NOT A JOKE--- orrrrrr b) theRussos are right and maybe Steve did all of those things in a branch reality,which they felt no need to mention when they were wrapping up the emotionalstoryline for their marquee character, which is lazy at best and kind ofunforgivable at worst. Even in the Best Version of Events, where not only arethe Russos are right and Steve went back in a splinter timeline, but in thatsplinter timeline Steve co-founded a Nazi-less SHIELD with Peggy and theyfought crime Hart to Hart style, saved Bucky, stopped the Vietnam War fromhappening and cured AIDS, it still means Peggy no longer did everything she didon her own, fighting and clawing for it like a honey badger. And should shehave had to? No, of course not. But is it her defining trait and greatestaccomplishment that she did? YES! This matters to me! Erasing it without givingher a say matters to me!

And the fact that all of this is in doubt is BONKERS. Iwould feel less weird about if they didn’t leave all of it unsaid! If they’dincluded a scene with Bucky before Steve went back where Bucky just went “Steve,listen. I know what you’re thinking, and you can’t save me, okay? It wouldbreak the time continuum or something. Now go be a reckless idiot like I knowyou’re gonna and say hi to Carter for me” it would at least feel like theycared the slightest bit. Hell, if they gave Peggy ANY LINES AT ALL it wouldfeel a heck of a lot more like the reuniting of two characters I love and lesslike a mortifying hetcon where Steve erases all of Peggy’s professionalaccomplishments and canon husband and other family just to have hisfairytale happy ending with a voiceless woman-shaped smilebot.

Do you have any idea how much I would have cried if we’dgotten a scene were Steve showed up at the Stork Club in time for his dance?Peggy doesn’t even need to have A LOT of lines (though she should!) A tearysmirk and a “you’re late” reprise would have gone so far! (Especially if they’dhad a final, heart-wrenching goodbye for closure and then he’d returned to thefuture, giving us the best of both worlds, but what do I know.) But no, EdwinJarvis gets a line in this movie and Peggy doesn’t. She has no say in the endof her story—it’s a decision that’s made at her. She’s a bit player inher own life. Steve isn’t reunited with Peggy, he gets a dance with the idea ofPeggy. But like. The real Peggy is brash and terrible at emotional honesty! Shewould be a nightmare to be married to! So is Steve! That’s why I love them,they’re awful! And it just feels like all of that was erased in a moment infavor of a vision of unsustainable hetero bliss.

(Honestly, the way I make peace with this is by thinkingthat after maybe six months with Peggy they were both like “oh godwhat were we thinking, this is never going to work” and broke up, and thereason Steve didn’t tell Sam his wife’s name is that it wasn’t Peggy andhe’s too embarrassed to say so.)

And like. I’m trying not to feel like an awfulbitch/bitter old crone about it, because the thing I keep circling back to inconversation with others is them saying “can’t you at least be happy for himthat he’s at peace? Don’t you think he deserves to rest? After everything he’s done,shouldn’t Steve get a chance to be happy?”

Listen. Do I think Steve deserves a chance athappiness? Yes. Do I think Steve Rogers actually has the capacity forsustainable, long term happiness? … Honestly, no. That’s one of the reasons Ilove him.

Steve is miserable. His life is hard, he’s got PTSD, hehas trouble adjusting even in the best of circumstances. But he’s a fighter.And the reason I admire(d) him so much is that no matter what life threw athim, he was relentless in his forward momentum. He had to go on, he had to keepstanding up for others. He didn’t know how not to. Does this mean he needs ashit ton of therapy? Yes, it does—and the therapy is better in the future, Imight add! But like. As much as the creative team keeps going on about howtheir overall arcs were “Tony needed to learn to be more selfless, like Steve,and Steve needed to learn to be more selfish, like Tony” I think there’s adifference between learning to grasp happiness with both hands in the unlikely,miraculous event it comes your way, because it’s brief and shining and worthcelebrating, even though it comes with heartbreak, and just… noping out of yourlife and ignoring your problems for seven decades while everyone else worriesabout it. I’ve never seen Steve sit still and keep himself out of trouble forseven minutes—now I’m supposed to believe he managed it for seventy years? Hewas Peggy’s weird secret attic husband no one knew about? I respected him,loved him, and identified with him—I felt represented by him—because not onlydid he have to fight for every scrap of happiness he’s ever had, he felt likethere was honor in that fight. That’s why Mjolnir declared him Worthy!! And forhim to then lay down his responsibility and NOT FIGHT for 70 years momentsafter being given that distinction… it stings.

I appreciate my happy endings when they’re hard-won. Thatoften means they’re bittersweet. And if Steve’s ending were framed that way—yes,he got back his Era and he got the girl, but he lost his best friend, his foundfamily, and any determinedly-etched-out balance—I might be more okay with it.But it’s presented as the uncomplicated ride off into the sunset he deserved,and… I don’t want my stories uncomplicated. Steve Rogers is not anuncomplicated man. I know a lot of this is YMMV and I’m maybe a bit more darkin my tastes than others, here—hell, I think it’s cheap that the Elrics got alltheir flesh back AND Mustang got back his sight in FMA:B, that feels like toohappy an ending for me—but telling me that what Steve’s really wanted allthis time was to have a house in the ‘burbs and chill doesn’t resonate. Steve’swhole thing since Day 1 was “how can I sit idly by while other men risk theirlives? I can’t stand that.”

It feels like a How I Met Your Mother ending. If Stevehad had the option to go back at the end of Avengers 1, I’d have bought itcompletely that he’d take it (both for character arc reasons and for “he didn’tknow Bucky was alive then” reasons). But he’s not that guy anymore. Yet itseems like they decided a long, long time ago that Steve was going to go backin time and get a do-over, and years of development, growth, moving on andbonding with other people be damned. Who cares if Steve got Bucky back, whocares if Steve got Sam back, who cares that he’d lived 13 years, his entireadult life, in the future? Nat’s dead, might as well go back to the other damewho liked him!

And. And here’s the thing. If everything else were equalbut Bucky and Peggy’s roles were reversed—if Peggy fell from the train, and itwas Bucky who founded SHIELD with Howard; if Steve met Bucky again as adementia-ridden old man and Peggy were the Winter Soldier, if it were PeggySteve spent all these movies desperately trying to save and nurture—I feel likeeveryone else would find it REALLY WEIRD if Steve went back in time to do itall over again with Bucky! That’s not a question of romance, or gender. Not forme, who loves all of these characters equally. It’s a question of the emotionalarchitecture the story is built upon.

Historically, every decision Steve’s ever made in theentire time we’ve known him has been about Bucky. And for this ending to work,it requires us to either ignore that, or think this single-minded focus wasnever about Bucky at all—that it was instead a sublimated love where Buckybecame a signifier for Peggy or the past Steve lost, instead of a person in hisown right, the person Steve’s always chosen and who’s always chosen him, sincethey were kids. Til the end of the line. Asking me to believe that is a)horrible, and cruel, and frankly homophobic and b) simply untenable—I don’t thinkthat the plots of First Avenger, Winter Soldier or Civil War stand up to thatreading.

And even in the kindest reading of all of this—that Stevedeserves to return to the time he was stolen from, because it’s his TrueTime and Peggy’s his True Love—then my god, doesn’t Bucky deserve that, too?Steve was an orphan with, after Bucky’s “death,” ONLY Peggy and I guess theHowlies to tie him to the world. Bucky has a family! He’s got sisters! Theythink he’s dead! If Steve deserves this, doesn’t Bucky, after everything he’sbeen through, deserve it too? If it applies to one of them, it applies to bothof them, doesn’t it? No matter which way you slice it? (For the record, if Stevehad taken Bucky back to the past with him I'd still be scratching my head aboutthe timeline bearing out—and I think it would make the Sam!Cap offer even morekind of paltry and afterthoughtish than it already is, Sam deserves FIREWORKSand A CROWD damn it, and it also deserves to be a decision not made AT him, seeabove—but at least I could be like “yeah, that's exactly the kind ofhilariously not-thought-out decision Steve would make, have fun kiddo.”)

But I guess Steve inviting Bucky on his Happy Ending Tourof the past would be too much like a fucking proposal so, uh, no, we don’t getthat.

NATASHA

Here is a top ten list, in no particular order, called “I’dbe fine with it, but.”

1. I’d be fine with it—Natasha is a hero, and she deservesa hero’s ending, she merits going out in a big swing to save the world—but she’sstill the Smurfette, man. It means something different to kill your only original female leadthis way than it does to kill a male character. It especially means that whenyou kill her in the exact same way you killed Gamora—THE OTHER SMURFETTE—onemovie previous. It feels cheap, and it feels callous. M&M&R&R havetalked a lot about the woman/women in the office who read a draft where Clintdied instead and said “DON’T YOU TAKE THIS AWAY FROM HER” but a) tbh I feellike maybe they were reading a different draft than was ultimately shot, thismovie evolved a lot over the years and b) when you’re the Token Girl, your storyis more than just yours. In a franchise of this scale, it’s just… it’s notequal yet. If the circumstances had been utterly different, if Nat haddied wielding the Infinity Gauntlet, at least it would be novel. And like—I amnot the kind of person who thinks standing against Bury Your Gays means no gayscan ever die or else, for example; sometimes a Good Death is warranted if it’swell-written enough—but again: it’s the “she feels empowered in that skimpysuit” thing. You didn’t HAVE to create a murder cliff that only exists forfemale characters to die for the men who love them. You made that choice. It’speak “why do we even have that lever?!”

2. I’d be fine with it—Natasha loves Clint, of course shewouldn’t let him die for her, not when he’s fighting to get back his family—butit would have made more sense for Clint to die as penance for all of the ninjamurders he did after losing his kids than for Nat to die because she can’t haveany. It feels like it privileges bio family over found family in a way that’skind of dismissive and gross, and it calls back to the mortifying line in Ageof Ultron were Nat referred to herself as a monster over her infertility. And theargument that Clint couldn’t die, there’s a Hawkeye Disney+ series falls flatwhen Nat has a MOVIE coming out and Vision also has a Disney+ series and yetis, as of this moment, still dead.

3. I’d be fine with it—Natasha loves Clint, of coursethey’d bicker over who would jump—but when the “dramatic” scene that precedes amajor character’s death resembles nothing so much as this comic, you’re doingit wrong. I shouldn’t be giggling over their antics right before someone fallsto their death.

4. I’d be fine with it—Nat did it for her family, whomshe loves—but her family didn’t even honor her back, and that’s bullshit. Tonygets a massive funeral and Nat gets nothing? I admit that what I trulywant for her—a long sequence of RENT-style “what Angel meant to me”testimonials—would have been a bit weird to include pacing-wise, even if I dothink if I asked Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner nicely over twitter they’dprobably improvise one for me anyway. But it didn’t have to be that. A singleshot in a montage would be enough. A shot of Clint, Laura, Fury, Steve, Sam, Okoye and Pepper doing a shot of vodka together and pouring one out for Nat would havebeen enough. Simple, elegant, gets the point across. It’s not hard!!!

5. I’d be fine with it—they needed to get the Soul Stone,for skimpy outfit reasons someone had to die, I get it—but then Steve has toput all the stones back to reverse the heist and stop the branch timelines fromcollapsing like The Ancient One warned about. How the fuck do you return theSoul Stone? And Steve could, wouldn’t that cosmically mean we get Nat back? Asoul for a soul, isn’t that the deal?

6. I’d be fine with it—I understand that playing the longgame and forcing yourself to fall in love with Red Skull so you cansacrifice him, though hilarious, is not actually a solution—but it just seemslike there are other ways to write around this moment. Nat and Clint have bothlost so much, sacrificed so much. That doesn’t count? This isn’t like Thanos,who’s never sacrificed a thing in his life. Nat’s given up so much for thecause; Clint lost his family. The Soul Stone couldn’t just sense that?Or—what if they’d jumped together? Full Rose and Jack, “you jump, I jump,right?” Refusing to be separated. What would the Soul Stone math be then? Ifeel like it would have been a cooler story to find out.

7. I’d be fine with it—ScarJo needed a way out of hercontract, after the Black Widow movie (which: how they’re going to make thatwork is a whole other rant I do not have time for here)—but killing Natasha inthe one irreversible way in a damn comic book franchise just feels soneedlessly final. If you’d said “after everything, after holding the Avengerstogether for five years with nothing but the force of her will and some peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches, she’s tired and disillusioned with it and wants toroam the world for a while without the team, maybe fight some normal crime fora bit” and had her phased out quietly I would have understood! It would havebeen fine! Preferable, even!

8. I’d be fine with it—I don’t think it’s total bullshit whenM&M&R&R say that this was the end of her arc, she’d found herfamily and become a true hero—but the implication that death is the only way toend an arc is lazy and, in this case, hurtful. It comes off as “we couldn’tthink of anything else to do with her, so we killed her.” You can’t do betterthan that? Tony and Steve were gone. Natasha ran the Avengers, andpulled Nick Fury duty on top of it, for five years and death is the onlyend of her arc? Again, I know ScarJo’s contract is up, but that answer is justoffensive. In a perfect world, given the circumstances you’ve described the endof Nat’s arc would be continuing to lead the fucking Avengers.

9. I’d be fine with it—maybe all those office ladies wereright, maybe it would have felt pandering and sexist and deflating if Clint hadstolen Nat’s moment and died for her—but it’s kind of conspicuous that thereare only two female leads in this movie, Natasha and Nebula, and when both trulyexhibit their agency in their climactic moments, they choose to die. And Nebulakilling her past self to save Gamora is one of my favorite moments of the film!But god, there’s more to female agency than suicide, right?

10. I’d be fine with it—the way Steve cries when he findsout is gratifying and in-character—but Tony’s question of “Did she have anyfamily?” is fucking horrifying. You know she doesn’t, Tony, Jesus Christ.It was a sloppy, lazy setup just so Steve could say “Yeah. Us.” Which wasfucking unnecessary because we know that, that’s why she died for you. (Thecomedy reading, which is that Tony was implying she, like Clint, had a secretFarm Family is hilarious but, y’know. Not the right time.)

And speaking of the sir himself…

TONY

This one is a big case of “it’s not what you say, it’show you say it.” I didn’t expect Tony to get out of Endgame alive. (In fact, Ihad braced myself for a total party kill for the original six, which, if it hadbeen a TPK, I would have felt way better about it tbh. If they’d gone down one byone Rogue One style, at least the playing field would be even; that wouldremove a lot of the sting.) Tony’s the bedrock, he’s where we started, and ofcourse this would be the end of his road. He was going to go out big, he wasgoing to save the world. I knew that was the deal.

But they also gave him a little girl.

To my eyes, you can give Tony the ending he deserves—the endingwhere he and Pepper get to settle down, where he gets to be the father he neverhad, the one where he’s finally stable, finally at peace—or you can giveTony the Ending He Deserves—the one where he, the flagship, the starting pistolof the MCU, gets to vanquish Thanos saying “I am Iron Man.” Epic.

You… you lose me when you do both.

Here’s where I get my hackles up:

Were there any other outcomes you considered for Tony?

MARKUS No. Because we had the opportunity to give him theperfect retirement life, within the movie.

McFEELY He got that already.

MARKUS That’s the life he’s been striving for. Are he andPepper going to get together? Yes. They got married, they had a kid, it wasgreat. It’s a good death. It doesn’t feel like a tragedy. It feels like aheroic, finished life.

It is a fucking tragedy! Pepper is left alone with a fiveyear old girl! Pepper does not get a perfect, finished life. It’s a gross,reductive, alienating view of fatherhood, which is all the more starkly (punintended) contrasted when you compare him to Scott, a good dad whoactually gives a shit that he missed out on three years of Cassie’s lifein prison and then ANOTHER FIVE in the Quantum Realm. Honestly, this is whathappens when you don’t let women write these movies—the characterization formen suffers, too, not just women. Because it wasn’t even a factor to them.Like. They literally cut a scene from the movie where a vision of Morgan fromthe future absolved him of guilt for leaving his family behind. That’s… reallyawful, fellas. Surely you can see how awful that is?

I want to feel good about Tony’s death. I want to feelinspired. Part of me does. But god, that little girl. God, Pepper.

But then, it’s pretty much par for the course. Because it’sworth it to talk about

WOMEN

This isn’t about how the one “Girl Power” shot wasshallow fanservice instead of substantive representation, how it makes no sensein the plot of the moment, or how it’s a totally empty gesture unless they planon giving us an A-Force movie (though all of those things are true).

It’s about how this movie has a gender problem in whichthe vast, vast majority of female characters got to be “badass” by bucklingunder the will of their male counterparts—and those who didn’t mostly justweren’t in it enough for that to be true.

Peggy doesn’t get any lines; she is presented not as thestrong, capable individual we know her to be but as a storybook reward forSteve’s good behavior after all these years. She is a prop, not a person.

Pepper is, for the thousandth time, defined as strong andcapable because she’s able to withstand all of the crap Tony puts on her. Ilove Tony/Pepper, I think they’re the beating heart of the MCU, their screwballenergy left a positive and indelible mark on the MCU that redefined how loveinterests work (well, barring Betty Ross, I’m so sorry Betty your movie isawful and you deserved so much better). But like. Tony gives her a company whenhe doesn’t want it anymore, he gives her a suit even though he knows she’s notinterested, he talks her into having a child together and then he leaves herbehind. Pepper is like an amazing, super intense version of one of those cookswho up-cycles leftovers into new, amazing, even-better-than-the-originaldishes. But she shouldn’t have to be, and she deserves better.

The same goes for Valkyrie, who is literally handedthe crown of Asgard for no other reason than because she’s there. It’s notthat she’s not capable, it’s not that she doesn’t deserve it, and it’s not thatshe won’t do an amazing job, but again: it’s a decision made at her. Why isthis still happening? (See also: Sam!Cap, and another way that Sam is stillgetting the Love Interest treatment after all of these years).

Carol was underused, and utilized entirely as a Deus ExMachina instead of as a person with feelings every time she did show up. Whileshe has the raw power to back up that plot usage, aside from her little smirkand “hey, Peter Parker,” we got almost no humanity from her. It’s not like theMCU is bad at establishing loads and loads of nuance in just a few lines—the massivejuggernaut that is Clint/Coulson shipping was launched when they exchanged twosentences to each other!—so it doesn’t feel like a lot to ask that Carol bein the scenes she’s in. You know?

For the most part, I really love how they handled Gamoraand Nebula, but the fact that 2014 them were Super Team Thanos flies directlyin the face of where both of them were at the start of GotG—and for Gamora tochange her mind after learning that in the future, she and Nebula are trulysisters when it’s Nebula who always wanted that for them is… a littlereductive. This was Their Movie—five more minutes to really tease out thenuance here would have really gone a long way.

Plus there was that whole scene where Frigga was like “actuallyit’s fine if I die; I’m just glad you’re okay honey. I feel so empowered inthis skimpy outfit. It has to be this way!” If Nat didn’t die the way she did, this scene would read differently! But she did! So it doesn’t!

Okay. Okay. I’m sure I’ve forgotten things that botheredme, but I have to stop somewhere so it might as well be here. In fact, here’s alist of things I really liked, to remind us all that I did like this movie:

America’s ass! “I could do this all day”/“I know!” ThePB&J cut diagonal! Cooper’s baseball mitt! Tony and Nebula playing PaperFootball! Nebula and Rhodey being best friends / “he’s an idiot!” Clint and Natforehead touch! Nat lounging on the takeout containers! When Hope calls Steve ‘Cap’and Scott gives her a little Look about it! Instant Kill Mode! Bruce and TheAncient One talk metaphysics—and the fact that Bruce is what is astrallyprojected out of Hulk! The redo of the elevator scene being subverted with “HailHydra!” Tony and Howard! Rocket’s much-needed frank pep talk to Thor! Ding dongditching 1970 Hank because he deserves that and so much worse! Tony revisitinghis Age of Ultron mentality at his lowest—frankly, it made me buy it in a wayall of AoU didn’t! Nebula murdering who she used to be so she can becomesomething new (let the past die, kill it if you have to amirite?)! Theindulgent credits sequence with the original 6 and their autographs! Quill’sface when he saw 2014 Gamora! TIME HEIST AS A CONCEPT LBR. Everyone’s funeralfashion choices, some of which are patently Bonkers! Smart Hulk having to riphis shirt off and pretend to enjoy smashing to blend in in 2012! The whole tacosight gag outside the compound! I love you 3000! Scott reuniting with Cassieand saying “you’re so big” instead of “you’re so tall!” Steve being Worthy!Thor doing a self-Fastball Special by hitting Mjolnir with Stormbreaker! YIBAMBE!

I don’t think I have ever cried as hard as I didwhen Sam said “on your left” and all of the Snapped heroes came back in Strange’sportals. Desperate, sobbing, joyful, elated, transported, awe-filled GASPINGkind of crying. I could hardly breathe. I really freaked out the guy next tome, I’ll tell you that.

I’m upset because these movies are good. This movie isgood. It made me feel… I don’t think I can describe the acute, painful ecstasyof that moment as long as I live, when everyone I loved, everyone gone,returned and returned and returned. I’m tearing up just describing it to younow.

I say these things because I care. I say these thingsbecause I don’t want to stop caring, and when characters I love are written inways I cannot understand, that I cannot abide, I am removed from the equation.And I am the damn target audience for this fucking movie. What I think matters.And it matters that I say it.

If you actually made it this far, I am very impressedwith your fortitude, and I thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

#hoo boy #i do not want this in any tracked tags #not that those even work anymore #but here's some filler #and one more #okay #avengers endgame #endgame #mcu #avengers endgame spoilers #endgame spoilers #Anonymous

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laurenreviewsmovies · 5 years

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MCU Guide for Dummies

MCU Chronological Timeline

Captain America: The First Avenger (up until Steve crashed the plane in the ocean) (1940s)

Captain Marvel (1995)

Iron Man (2010)

“Nick Fury’s Big Week” (all within the same week in 2011)

Iron Man 2

Thor

The Incredible Hulk

Captain America: The First Avenger (Steve wakes up in modern times)

The Avengers (2012ish)

(this is where the years start to not add up that much, but this is the order everything happens, and some events still take place at the same time. So I included the years that I accept as canon, but sometimes the MCU contradicts that. Even Marvel has admitted they’ve fucked up their own timeline multiple times)

Iron Man 3 (Late 2012/2013)

Thor: The Dark World (2013)

Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Guardians of the Galaxy (the saga)

Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2014) (takes place just months after GOTG1)

Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)

Ant-Man (2015)

‘2016’ Movies (happening at the same time, more or less)

Captain America: Civil War (this happens first)

Doctor Strange (is starting at the same time the airport fight in Civil War goes down. When Strange crashes his car, he’s listening to potential surgery cases to take. One of them is “a 35 year old Marine Colonel, crushed his lower spine in some kind of experimental armor”. At his youngest, Rhodey is in his mid to late 40s, but this is supposed to be about him)

Black Panther (at the very beginning of the movie, the news is talking about how T’Chaka has been killed in the UN bombing in Vienna the week prior and how T’Challa has to be crowned as the next king)

Spider-Man: Homecoming (the movie starts with Peter’s POV of the airport fight in Civil War, and then follows him in the weeks afterwards. The movies says this movie takes place in 2020? This is the movie that got everyone hella confused and got Marvel to finally admit that they themselves can’t even keep their timelines straight)

‘2017/2018’ Movies (happening at the same time, more or less)

Thor: Ragnarok (you can look at this two ways. Either both Thor: Ragnarok and Infinity War happened in 2017, or they both happened in 2018. They absolutely have to take place at the same time, because Thor: Ragnarok occurs mere days before Infinity War, and the movie ends only minutes before the beginning of Infinity War. This movie takes place roughly two years after Ultron and Civil War, just keep that in mind)

Infinity War (see above)

Ant-Man and the Wasp (this takes place a substantial amount of time after Civil War (about 2 years). Scott agreed to house arrest after breaking the law in Civil War, and his sentence is days from being finished in this movie. It’s pretty much accepted that it takes place a couple of weeks before Civil War. The after credit scene takes place during Infinity War, more specifically, during the exact moment everyone started disappearing because of the Snap)

WHERE WERE ALL THE INFINITY STONES?

(Thanos has now collected all of them, but where did he get them from?)

REALITY STONE (red) – within the Aether which was in The Collector’s collection on Knowhere

MIND STONE (yellow) – used to be in Loki’s scepter, then was in Vision’s head

TIME STONE (green) – eye of Agamotto, property of the Sorcerer Supreme

POWER STONE (purple) – given to Nova Corps by the Guardians of the Galaxy for safekeeping

SPACE STONE (blue) – inside the Tesseract

SOUL STONE (orange) – Vormir, guarded by the Red Skull

MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO TAKE AWAY

(the most important things to remember about each movie, but more in depth summaries of the plot of each movie is explained later on)

Iron Man: Tony becomes Iron Man to escape being held captive in a cave, creates the arc reactor to keep him alive and power the Iron Man suit, shuts down weapons manufacturing branch at his company, comes in contact with SHIELD, is approached by Nick Fury about the Avengers Initiative.

The Incredible Hulk: General Ross is after Bruce because he wants to use him as a weapon for the army. Bruce becomes a fugitive. He essentially learns how to control his transformations into the Hulk.

Iron Man 2: Natasha is introduced. Tony is not recommended for the Avengers Initiative, but Iron Man is. Tony become a consultant for SHIELD. Tony and Pepper finally get together. Rhodey is given an Iron Man suit (War Machine)

Thor: Odin is a bad father. Loki is adopted and has been lied to his entire life and Thor was always favored over him. Thor used to be an arrogant jerk but now he’s worthy. Loki falls of the Bifrost to his supposed death in the void of space after feeling betrayed by his entire family.

Captain America: The First Avenger: Steve was given the super solider serum because he was seen as a good guy who wouldn’t abuse its power. HYDRA is introduced and so is the Tesseract. Bucky is experimented on by HYDRA and falls off a train to his supposed death. Steve crashes a plane into the ocean, is frozen, and is then thawed out in 2011.

The Avengers: Loki isn’t dead, surprise, surprise. He’s sent by Thanos to Earth to retrieve the Tesseract, and he’s gifted with a scepter capable of mind control to help him. The team is formed, Coulson is supposedly killed, and they team up to fight Loki in New York. Tony takes a missile through a wormhole into space and sees the alien threat on the other side. The Avengers win. Loki is taken back to Asgard.

Iron Man 3: Tony has PTSD because of what he saw on the other side of the wormhole during the Battle of New York. He meets Harley (who is one of my all-time favorite Marvel characters so you seriously need to at least watch THIS movie). Tony takes down bad guys and shows that he’s a badass even without his suit. He gets the arc reactor and shrapnel removed from his chest at the end of the movie.

Thor: The Dark World: The Aether is introduced. Loki and Thor team up to defeat the bad guys and Loki supposedly dies protecting Thor. The Aether is revealed to be an Infinity Stone, as is the Tesseract. Jane Foster is reduced from a smart and relatable heroine to a damsel in distress and that’s a bummer.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier: Bucky isn’t dead, he’s the Winter Soldier. He’s been brainwashed by HYDRA and is an accomplished super soldier assassin. Sam/The Falcon are introduced. HYDRA infiltrated SHIELD after WWII and is exposed in this movie. Steve finds out that the Winter Solider killed Tony’s parents. Bucky starts to regain a few tiny memories.

Guardians of the Galaxy: The Guardians of the Galaxy are introduced as are the Ravagers. Nebula and Gamora are revealed to be Thanos’s adopted daughters, and they don’t like him at all. The stone inside the orb is revealed to be an Infinity Stone, and there is a whole scene giving background on the Infinity Stones and why they’re important. Peter Quill is revealed to only be half-human.

Avengers: Age of Ultron: Thor goes to a magic pond in a cave and has a vision about the Infinity Stones – it’s the first time we see all six. Vision is created as a result of Ultron and Loki’s scepter. The glowing things in the middle of the scepter is shown to be holding an infinity stone, which ultimately gets imbedded in Vision’s head. Tony retires from the Avengers, Clint also retires from the Avengers, Pietro dies, Wanda joins the team, Rhodey, Vision, and Sam officially join the Avengers, Clint has a secret family and a farm, and the Hulk disappears and no one knows where he went.

Ant-Man: Hank Pym and his daughter Hope don’t have the best relationship but they seem to repair it by the end of the movie. Scott is just trying to be a good dad and stay on the straight and narrow after his release from prison, but he gets back into stealing. He masters the Ant-Man suit created by Hank and Janet van Dyne might not be dead. Scott and Sam have a fight. Hope gets the Wasp suit.

Captain America: Civil War: Steve and his friends don’t support the Accords, Tony and his friends do. This results in a fight. Steve lied to Tony about his parents for two years to protect Bucky and there’s a huge fight when Tony finds out Steve lied. The Avengers are ripped apart, right down the middle. T’Challa offers to let Bucky stay in Wakanda. Steve and the others are all considered global fugitives. Steve gives Tony a cell phone to contact him with if he ever needs help. Spider-Man is introduced.

Doctor Strange: Stephen Strange becomes a practitioner of the mystic arts after losing his ability to be a surgeon. Another Infinity Stone, inside the Eye of Agamotto, is revealed. We learn that the sorcerers are in charge of protecting the Earth from otherworldly magical threats. Strange becomes the Sorcerer Supreme.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2.: Peter is half-celestial. His father, Ego, is a living planet and is evil and wants to take over the universe. Yondu is the father Peter never knew he really had. Peter briefly realizes he has Celestial powers but then he loses them. Mantis joins the gang. Gamora and Nebula make up and Nebula leaves to go hunt down Thanos.

Spider-Man: Homecoming: Peter really wants to be a full blown Avenger and to have any sort of relationship with Tony, who is his idol, but Tony pretty much ignores him and tells him to stick to small crime stuff. Peter gets involved with Toomes and Tony gets upset with him and takes back the suit he made him. Peter still goes after Toomes and defeats him in his homemade suit. Tony realizes he needs to be a part of Peter’s life more and offers him a position as a full Avenger but Peter turns it down in favor of staying a neighborhood Spider-Man. Pepper and Tony get engaged.

Thor: Ragnarok: Mjolnir, Thor’s hammer, is destroyed. Loki is alive and has been pretending to be Odin for, like, four years. Odin dies, releasing Thor’s bloodthirsty sister Hela, who tries to take over Asgard. Thor and the others destroy Asgard to defeat her. Loki and Thor get stranded on the planet Sakaar. The Hulk has been the Hulk for two straight years, transforms back into Bruce, and then back into the Hulk by the end of the movie. Valkyrie joins the gang. Thor become king and realizes he has lightning powers. The Asgardians are heading to Earth when they’re stopped by Thanos’s ship.

Black Panther: T’Challa is now king of Wakanda in addition to being the Black Panther. Shuri is extremely smart. Erik is revealed to be T’Challa’s cousin and he challenges and defeats T’Challa for the throne. M’Baku and the Jabari tribe team up with T’Challa and help him win back the throne. T’Challa decides that Wakanda is going to come out of hiding and share its knowledge and resources with the world.

Avengers: Infinity War: Thanos collects all six infinity stones and the following heroes are either killed or are dusted during the Snap and trapped in the Soul Stone: Sam, Bucky, Mantis, Drax, Peter Parker, Peter Quill, T’Challa, Shuri, Groot, Wanda, Hope, Janet, Hank, Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Dr. Strange, Loki, Vision, Gamora. Nebula and Tony Stark are stranded on Titan. Nick Fury pages Captain Marvel for help before he dies.

Ant-Man and the Wasp: Janet is rescued from the Quantum Realm. Hope has her own suit and is now The Wasp and she’s kind of better at the job than Scott is. Scott makes up with Hope and Hank. During the Snap, Hank, Hope, and Janet all disappear and leave Scott stranded in the quantum realm.

Captain Marvel: Carol was an Air Force pilot who absorbed the power of the Tesseract and has Kree blood in her veins which makes her insanely powerful. She’s badass, and she’s currently in space trying to help the Skrulls find a place to live (as far as we know). Goose is a super special cat who ate the Tesseract, and Carol gave Fury a specialized pager to contact her in the case of an emergency.

Summary Of Each Movie

(not in chronological order, this is in order of release)

Iron Man

Most important things to take away: Tony becomes Iron Man to escape being held captive in a cave, creates the arc reactor to keep him alive and power the Iron Man suit, shuts down weapons manufacturing branch at his company, comes in contact with SHIELD, is approached by Nick Fury about the Avengers Initiative.

Tony Stark is the son of Howard Stark. His parents died when he was 17, and he inherited Stark Industries. He didn’t take the role of CEO until he was 21, so his godfather Obadiah Stane (one of Howard’s best friends and also the CFO of Stark Industries) was in charge until he came of age. Stark Industries, since it was founded in the 1940s, has been a military contractor and it still is. Tony Stark is kidnapped in Afghanistan while demonstrating one of his new weapons to some military big wigs when he and his escorts are ambushed by terrorists and a bomb blows up in his face. He wakes up in a cave with a car battery hooked up to a hole in his chest to keep the bomb fragments stuck in his chest from slicing through his heart.

While in captivity, he finds out that the terrorists have a LOT of his weapons. It’s more than just a stolen shipment. Somehow, terrorists have been regularly receiving Stark weapons for years and Tony didn’t know about it. The terrorists want him to build his new missile for them. He says okay, but in reality he’s creating the Iron Man armor to escape. He also creates a miniaturized arc reactor (based off the giant one his dad built at Stark Industries) to keep the shrapnel out of his chest and to power the suit. He escapes and makes it back to the United States, where he immediately shuts down the weapons manufacturing branch of Stark Industries indefinitely until he can figure out what the fuck is going on.

He starts working on the Iron Man armor and testing it. It’s an amusing montage. SHIELD enters the picture and wants to talk to Tony.

He finds out that even though he shut down the weapons branch, that the terrorists were still receiving shipments of weapons (specifically in Gulmira). He also found out that his Board of Directors have filed an injunction to stop him from shutting down the weapons branch because they think he’s making crazy decisions because of PTSD from Afghanistan. When he asks Obadiah if he knows anything about these shipments to the terrorists, Obadiah admits that he is the one who filed the injunction against him. Tony flies to Gulmira and destroys the weapons. The US Air Force notices him on the way back and try to take him down, which is how Tony’s BFF Rhodey figures out he’s Iron Man. He is caught by Pepper, his assistant, removing the armor, so she knows about Iron Man too.

With Pepper’s help, they find out that Obadiah was actually behind Tony’s kidnapping. Obadiah paid the terrorists to kill Tony, but once the terrorists realized they realized the target was Tony freaking Stark, they kidnapped him instead. Obadiah has started building his own armor, but he can’t figure out a power source. He takes the arc reactor from Tony’s chest, essentially leaving him for dead. SHIELD and Pepper rush to stop Obadiah while Tony gets a spare reactor and suits up. There’s a fight. Tony wins. SHIELD helps deal with clean up and cover up.

SHIELD writes him a cover story (Iron Man isn’t him, it’s a bodyguard) for the press conference the next day, since the fight happened at Stark Industries and people noticed it. Tony disregards the notecards and announces that he himself is Iron Man.

Post credit scene: Nick Fury approaches Tony Stark to talk about the Avengers Initiative.

The Incredible Hulk

Most important things to take away: General Ross is after Bruce because he wants to use him as a weapon for the army. Bruce becomes a fugitive. He essentially learns how to control his transformations into the Hulk.

Remember in The Avengers when Bruce Banner is like “last time I was in New York, I kind of...broke Harlem”? This is that movie.

Bruce Banner works with and is dating Betty Ross. Her dad, General Ross, comes to talk to Bruce about an experiment with gamma radiation, an experiment that is trying to recreate the super soldier serum used on Captain America. Spoiler alert: it fails. Bruce turns into the Hulk when his heartrate goes about 200 beats per minute. The Hulk goes crazy and wreaks havoc. He becomes a fugitive of the US military, and particularly of Ross (who wants to weaponize the Hulk).

He’s still on the run five years later, hiding out in Brazil. He’s been talking to this guy on the internet (Mr. Blue) about finding a cure. He’s trying to keep the Hulk stuff under control using yoga techniques, and he hasn’t had an incident in five months. An accident at works leads the military to him. A Special Forces team, led by Emil Blonsky, try and take him down but Bruce Hulks out and escapes. Blonsky talks to Ross and agrees to be injected with a similar serum to the one used on Bruce to make him faster, stronger, overall better. It starts to make him go crazy and look crazy.

Bruce reconnects with Betty who is dating someone else (Phil, from Modern Family). Blonsky and the soldiers attack him again and he turns into the Hulk. Blonsky is supposedly killed, and the Hulk runs off with Betty. Bruce and Betty are on the run and meet up with Dr. Blue. Dr. Blue has found an antidote, but it will only reverse each individual transformation, not get rid of the Hulk all together.

Surprise! Blonsky survived. The military attacks while Bruce is with Dr. Blue and they take Bruce into custody. Blonsky stays behind and orders Dr. Blue to inject him with Bruce’s blood (Blue has vials of it from testing). It backfires and turns him into a complete monster (The Abomination). It makes him go completely crazy and he starts attacking Harlem. Ross realizes that the only thing that can stop him is the Hulk so he lets Bruce go. Bruce defeats Blonsky and runs off, on the run again.

Post credit scene: Tony Stark approaches Ross at a bar and tells him that ‘a team’ is being put together.

Iron Man 2

Most important things to take away: Natasha is introduced. Tony is not recommended for the Avengers Initiative, but Iron Man is. Tony become a consultant for SHIELD. Tony and Pepper finally get together. Rhodey is given an Iron Man suit (War Machine).

Approximately six months after Iron Man.

Ivan Vanko is watching Tony’s press conference where he reveals that he’s Iron Man. His dad, Anton Vanko, has just died but not before telling Ivan that that should’ve been him. He has blue prints that Howard Stark and Anton Vanko both worked on, together, for the arc reactor. Ivan starts working on his own arc reactor.

Tony is living it up. He’s been using Iron Man to keep the peace. The government wants to take his suits but he maintains that they’re not weapons and are his private property. He restarts the Stark Expo (the last one his Father did was in the 70s). The palladium core of the arc reactor is killing him. It’s quickly poisoning his blood. He needs the arc reactor to stay alive and power the suit, and he can’t find a substitute for the palladium.

Tony’s starting to act reckless when he realizes he’s going to die soon. He hasn’t told anyone. He makes Pepper the CEO of Stark Industries. She needs an assistant now, so Natalie Rushman (aka Natasha Romanov) is sent in. She’s really been sent there by SHIELD to evaluate Tony and assess whether he is a good fit for the Avengers Initiative. In Monaco, Tony decides to drive the Stark car in the Grand Prix. During the race, he’s attacked by Vanko. Vanko is defeated, but Tony’s arch nemesis Justin Hammer takes an interest in him and breaks him out of jail. He wants Vanko to help him fix his own prototypes of the Iron Man armor so that they are superior to Tony’s. Since Tony is no longer the main weapons contractor of the US Military, Hammer has taken his place, and since Tony won’t give his weapons to the military, Hammer wants to be able to deliver. He wants to demonstrate his superior suits at the Stark Expo to rub it in Tony’s face.

At Tony’s birthday party, he gets super drunk and reckless and is wearing the Iron Man armor. Rhodey says he’s being irresponsible and puts on a suit to try and restrain him. There’s a fight and Rhodey flies off with the suit and delivers it to the Air Force. Hammer is called in to make it even more weaponized.

A hungover Tony is approached by Nick Fury. Natalie is revealed to be Natasha at this time, and they give him a temporary antidote for the palladium poisoning. Nick reveals that Howard Stark was a founder of SHIELD and that he knew him personally. He explains how Howard and Anton worked on the arc reactor together and that Howard had him deported when Anton tried to sell it for profit. Fury delivers some of Howard’s old stuff to Tony (because Tony is supposed to figure something out from it) and leaves Coulson to watch over him. Coulson is called away to go oversee an incident in New Mexico (aka Thor). Tony finds a hidden message in a Stark Expo 1974 diorama, and uses it to make a new element. The new element serves as a replacement for the palladium.

Hammer’s suits are revealed at the Expo but Vanko has sabotaged them to become his own personal drones. Even Rhodey’s suit is taken control of. Vanko uses the drones to attack the Expo. Fun fact: one almost kills a small boy wearing an Iron Man mask...this boy is young Peter Parker. Natasha and Tony’s bodyguard Happy infiltrate Hammer Industries and gives control back to Rhodey’s suit. Stark and Rhodey defeats the drones and Vanko self-destructs his own suit. Pepper and Tony finally kiss after two movies of awkward flirting.

Fury is going over Natasha’s report of Tony with him. She concluded that while Iron Man is a good candidate for the Avengers Initiative, Tony Stark himself, as a person, is not recommended. SHIELD only wants to use him as a consultant, and Tony eventually agrees.

Post credit scene: Coulson shows up in New Mexico, where there is large hammer in the middle of a large crater.

Thor

Most important things to take away: Odin is a bad father. Loki is adopted and has been lied to his entire life and Thor was always favored over him. Thor used to be an arrogant jerk but now he’s worthy. Loki falls of the Bifrost to his supposed death in the void of space after feeling betrayed by his entire family.

In 965 AD, Odin defeats the Frost Giants of Jotunheim. King Laufey and the frost giants were trying to conquer the nine realms. The Asgardians take away their source of power, the Casket of Ancient Winters. Odin also finds a Jotun baby abandoned to die, supposedly, at a temple in Jotunheim. He picks up the baby and his magic changes the baby’s skin color from blue to normal human skin color. He takes the baby back to Asgard with him and raises it as his own, without letting the child know that he was adopted. This child is Loki.

In present day, Thor is about to be crowned king of Asgard. Some Jotuns break into the vault in Asgard trying to steal the Casket of Ancient Winters. A big giant metal guard with a furnace for a face that guards all the stuff on the fault destroys them. This robot thing is called The Destroyer. Thor sees this attack as a violation of the peace treaty between Jotunheim and Asgard and wants to attack Jotunheim in retaliation. Odin forbids him from doing anything but Thor disobeys him and goes to Jotunheim with his friends and Loki. It goes terribly. A frost giant grabs one of Thor’s friend’s arms and it starts to get instant frostbite. He warns everyone else about it – don’t let them touch your skin! A frost giant grabs Loki’s arm but instead of his arm freezing off, it starts to turn blue which shocks the Jotun and Loki. Odin comes and rescues the gang and convinces Laufey to forgive Thor’s arrogant and foolish actions. Odin strips Thor of his powers and banishes him to Earth. He throws Mjolnir through the wormhole as well, but only after enchanting it so that Thor (and anyone else) can only lift it if he’s worthy.

Thor lands in New Mexico where he is hit by Jane Foster (and Dr. Selvig and Darcy) with a van while they’re out in the desert doing science things at night. They drop him at the hospital, and the townspeople find Mjolnir in the desert. Coulson and SHIELD come out and confiscate all of Jane’s scientific data and equipment. Realizing Thor is the only piece of data she has left, Jane goes to find him. Thor breaks into the SHIELD containment area around Mjolnir to try and get it back, but he can’t lift it. SHIELD takes him into custody.

Loki confronts Odin about what happened on Jotunheim with his skin turning blue. Odin admits that Loki was adopted, and that he’s actually the son of the Jotun king Laufey. Before they can talk about that any more, Odin falls into, essentially, a magical coma. Loki is now the acting kind of Asgard, since Thor is banished. He visits Thor on Earth and lies to Thor and tells him Odin is dead. Loki refuses to lift Thor’s banishment. Jane and Dr. Selvig break Thor out of SHIELD.

Loki visits Laufey and offers him the Casket and the opportunity to kill Odin while he’s in his magic coma. Thor’s friends ask Loki to lift Thor’s banishment but Loki says no. Thor’s friends go against Loki and go to Earth to rescue Thor. Loki sends the Destroyer after them and the Destroyers defeats them. Thor realizes that the Destroyer is really just there to kill him and he sacrifices himself so that the Destroyer will stop destroying the town. This proves him to be worthy and Mjolnir flies to him and his powers are restored. He defeats the Destroyer and returns to Asgard.

Loki ends up betraying Laufey once he gets to Asgard. He was really just wanting to use Laufey attacking Odin as an excuse to destroy Jotunheim. He opens the Bifrost (the magic rainbow bridge that can transport you to any on the nine realms) on Jotunheim. If the Bifrost stays open for too long, it will destroy whatever it’s opened on. Thor shows up to stop him. Odin wakes up just in time to catch Thor and Loki from falling of the Bifrost. The Bifrost is destroyed. Loki just wants approval from Odin but Odin refuses to give it so Loki supposedly commits suicide by letting go and falling off the Bifrost into the abyss of space. Thor admits he’s not ready to be king.

Post credit scene: Fury brings Selvig into SHIELD to work on the Tesseract, an object that Fury says might hold untold power. An invisible Loki is revealed to the audience and prompts Selvig to agree.

Captain America: The First Avenger

Most important things to take away: Steve was given the super solider serum because he was seen as a good guy who wouldn’t abuse its power. HYDRA is introduced and so is the Tesseract. Bucky is experimented on by HYDRA and falls off a train to his supposed death. Steve crashes a plane into the ocean, is frozen, and is then thawed out in 2011.

World War II is currently going on. I’m not about to give you background on that.

A Nazi officer named Johan Schmidt steals a relic called the Tesseract from a church in Norway. Via a lapel pin, it’s revealed he’s part of HYDRA. In New York City, shrimpy little Steve Rogers tries to join the army (again) but is rejected for health reasons. He gets into a fight with a bully in an alley and is found by his BFF Bucky, who has been drafted into the Army and ships out tomorrow. They spend their last night together at a futuristic exhibition, where Steve tries to enlist again. He argues with Bucky about it, about why he wants to help. Dr. Erskine overhears him and offers him the change to join the Strategic Scientific Reserve (SSR) as a potential member of the super-soldier project Erskine is working on. He goes to boot camp for this where he meets Peggy Carter and Colonel Phillips. Phillips isn’t impressed by him but agrees to go with Steve after he is shown to be brave and selfless. The night before the experiment, Erskine reveals the Schmidt had tried an imperfect version of the serum and it didn’t work and had bad side effects on him.

Schmidt and Dr. Zola are using the energy of the Tesseract to power Zola’s inventions that would change the outcome of the war. Schmidt finds out that Erskine is testing the serum again so he sends a HYDRA agent to kill him. Erskine and Howard Stark are running the experiment on Steve which works and he’s big and buff now. After it’s revealed it works, the HYDRA agent kills Erskine and runs away. Steve chases after him and catches him but the agent kills himself to avoid interrogation. Since the formula for the serum is lost with Erskine’s death, the Senator backing the project uses Steve as a performer to promote buying war bonds. While entertaining the troops in Europe, he finds out that Bucky’s unit has been captured and that the Army refuses to risk more men to rescue them. Steve, Peggy, and Howard steal a plane and go to rescue them. Steve rescues all of the POWs and finds Bucky isolated in a lab, where he had been experimented on by Dr. Zola. Steve sees a map in the lab of HYDRA strongholds. It’s destroyed when the lab is blown up so Steve is the only one who knows where they are. He forms a team with Bucky (The Howling Commandos) and they go around destroying the bases. While trying to capture Zola on a moving train in the mountains, Bucky falls off the train, supposedly to his death. Zola is captured.

Using the info they got from Zola, Steve goes to finally stop Schmidt. Schmidt’s plan was to send a bunch of weapons of mass destructions to US cities. He has them loaded on an aircraft and he flies off with the Tesseract. Steve sneaks onto the plane and they fight. The Tesseract opens a wormhole in space which sucks Schmidt in. It falls to the floor of the plane and melts the floor, and then falls into the ocean. Steve can’t land the plane without setting off the weapons, so he crashes the plane into ocean. Supposedly killing himself as well.

Howard Stark starts going on missions in the Arctic to find the Tesseract and Steve’s plane. He finds the Tesseract and founds SHIELD with Peggy and Colonel Phillips. In 2011, SHIELD finds a wrecked plane in the Arctic containing Steve. They thaw him out. When he wakes up, he runs off and finds himself in modern Times Square. Nick Fury finds him and tells him it’s 2011.

Post credit scene: Fury finds Steve and tells him that they have an assignment regarding the Tesseract, which Steve is kind of annoyed to find out is still a problem.

The Avengers

Most important things to take away: Loki isn’t dead. He’s sent by Thanos to Earth to retrieve the Tesseract, gifted with a scepter capable of mind control to help him. The team is formed, Coulson is supposedly killed, they team up to fight Loki in New York. Tony takes a missile through a wormhole into space and sees the alien threat on the other side. The Avengers win. Loki’s taken back to Asgard.

This weird alien creature called The Other, the leader of the Chitauri, is telling an unknown third party (Thanos) about how Loki is ready to lead an offensive on Earth and retrieve the Tesseract for them. Loki arrives on Earth with a magic scepter, using the Tesseract to open a portal across space. He mind controls Hawkeye and Selvig and escapes with the Tesseract. Nick Fury declares that they’re at war and need to get the Avengers together.

The Avengers are put together. Captain America and Natasha go to stop Loki in Germany, where he is because he and Hawkeye were trying to find Iridium which they needed to stabilize the Tesseract. Loki and Steve fight, and the fight ends when Iron Man shows up on the scene. On the flight back to SHIELD, Thor lands on the plane and steals Loki away. On the ground, he tries reasoning with Loki, saying that this isn’t like him and that his family wants him to come home. Their conversation is interrupted by Tony, and Tony, Thor, and later Steve all fight in the forest. They come to a truce and bring Loki into SHIELD.

Loki is imprisoned on the Helicarrier while Bruce and Tony try and find the Tesseract. The group of Avengers start to argue, especially after finding out that SHIELD was using the Tesseract to build weapons. It’s because SHIELD is scared of an extraterrestrial threat, and Thor reveals that the only reason that extraterrestrials are taking notice of Earth is BECAUSE they’re messing with the Tesseract and essentially signaling that they’re ready for higher forms of warfare. Hawkeye and goons attack the Helicarrier and free Loki. Hawkeye is then freed from his mind control. The Avengers are scattered after the ensuing fight and Coulson is supposedly killed by Loki (why can no one stay dead in the MCU?!). Fury uses Coulson’s death to rally the Avengers into coming together.

Loki and Selvig have created a device to use the Tesseract to open a portal on top of Stark Tower. Tony and Steve realize that Loki needs a big show of him winning to publically validate himself as the leader of Earth and the Avengers rush to New York City to stop him. The Chitauri come through the portal and there’s a huge battle. They release they can use Loki’s scepter to close the portal but Fury alerts them to the fact that the World Security Council has sent a nuke to NYC to take out the enemy. Tony catches the missile and leads it through the portal, seeing all of the threats waiting behind the portal in space. It destroys all of the Chitauri forces and the mothership. The Avengers corner Loki and Thor takes him and the Tesseract back to Asgard. Fury says that the Avengers will return if the world needs them again.

Post credit scene: The Other reveals to his master that Loki failed, and that they had seriously underestimated the people of Earth. He says that to challenge the Avengers would be to court death. His master turns and smiles at this prospect. It’s revealed by face, but not by name, that his master is Thanos (and that line is clever because in the comics, Thanos isn’t trying to balance out the universe. He’s killing everyone because he’s in love with Death and is killing people to offer her to win her affection).

Post credit scene: The Avengers are eating Shwarma after the Battle of New York.

Iron Man 3

Most important things to take away: Tony has PTSD because of what he saw on the other side of the wormhole during the Battle of New York. He meets Harley (who is one of my all-time favorite Marvel characters so you seriously need to at least watch THIS movie). Tony takes down bad guys and shows that he’s a badass even without his suit. He gets the arc reactor and shrapnel removed from his chest at the end of the movie.

In 1999, Tony is hanging out with Maya Hansen, who is working on a treatment called Extremis that it an experimental regenerative treatment that would allow from recovery of crippling injuries, essentially by regrowing limbs and stuff. He’s approached by Aldrich Killian, the head of AIM (Advanced Idea Mechanics), but Stark promises to meet with him and then blows him off. So he’s created an enemy out of Killian, and even though Maya was a one night stand, he left her with a solution to one part of the Extremis formula she had been struggling with.

In modern times, Tony is struggling with anxiety and PTSD. His outlet for dealing with it is to build A TON of Iron Man suits. He’s together with Pepper now, but she doesn’t approve of his coping mechanisms. She meets with Aldrich who is working with Maya and Extremis and is trying to get Stark Industries to invest. She declines, and Happy (the bodyguard) doesn’t trust Aldrich and his henchman, so he follows them.

There’s a terrorist known as the Mandarin who keeps televising attacks and he can’t be caught because there’s a lack of forensic evidence. When Happy follows Aldrich’s henchman, he is injured in a Mandarin attack. When questioned about the Mandarin on TV, Tony threatens that Mandarin and gives out his home address, saying he’s not scared of him. The Mandarin bombs Tony’s house while Maya is over trying to talk to Tony about how she thinks Aldrich might be evil. Tony is assumed to be dead, and Maya and Pepper flee together. Tony was actually rescued by JARVIS and one of his Iron Man suits. It crash lands in Tennessee, and is out of power/not functional, so he has to lug it into a small town. He breaks into the garage of a ten-year old named Harley Keener, who informs him that the whole world thinks he’s dead.

The two team up and he finds out about Aldrich and his testing of Extremis. It actually causes people to explode if the virus is not accepted by the body. The Mandarin attacks leave no evidence because the people were the actual bombs. Tony traces the Mandarin to a mansion in Miami, and Harley stays behind in Tennessee to charge the suit. Meanwhile, Killian comes and kidnaps Pepper and maybe Maya (she doesn’t trust him at all but she still seems to be working with him, for his money). He also lured Rhodey into a trap to steal the War Machine armor. So everyone is chilling at the mansion.

Tony breaks into the mansion with homemade weapons and it’s badass as hell. He discovers that the Mandarin is actually an English actor. He’s taken captive by Killian, who is revealed to be the real mastermind of the Mandarin. Maya had mentioned to Killian that Tony might be able to help them solve the whole people-keep-exploding problem so that they can sell Extremis, and Killian injected Pepper with it to blackmail Tony into finding a cure. The armor charges and flies to meet Tony in Florida. He and Rhodey escape and have to go save the President, who Killian and friends had kidnapped to make a huge Mandarin spectacle. Tony calls in all of his many suits in to remotely kick ass. Pepper falls to her apparent death, but it’s revealed that she survived the Extremis virus and she reemerges to kill Killian when he’s about to kill Tony. Tony self-destructs his army of suits and fixes the Extremis virus. He then uses this virus to help him undergo surgery to remove the shrapnel from his chest and remove the arc reactor.

Post credit scene: Throughout the movie, Tony has been basically narrating everything...at least at the beginning and end. It’s revealed during this scene that he had been telling this all to Bruce to get it off his chest, but that Bruce had nodded off at the very beginning.

Thor: The Dark World

Most important things to take away: Loki and Thor team up to defeat the bad guys and Loki supposedly dies protecting Thor. The Aether is revealed to be an Infinity Stone, as is the Tesseract. Jane Foster is reduced from a smart and relatable heroine to a damsel in distress that’s a bummer.

In the past, Odin’s father fought the Dark Elves. The Dark Elves wanted to unleash a weapon known as the Aether on the nine realms which could only be done during the convergence, when all the realms lined up. In present day, Loki is taken back to Asgard. He would’ve been killed but his mother argued against it, so he’s sentenced to eternal imprisonment by Odin for his crimes against Jotunheim and Earth. Thor and his friends are going around trying to keep peace in the nine realms. When he returns, he discovers that another convergence is about to occur.

In London, Jane and Darcy show up at an abandoned factory where the laws of physics pretty much don’t apply. Jane gets transported to another world while exploring, and encounters the Aether, which infects her by flowing into her body. Heimdall sees this (Heimdall can see everything in the nine realms), and Thor comes to bring her to Asgard to get help. Odin recognizes the Aether and says that it will kill her and that this means something bad is coming. The Dark Elves attack Asgard and Frigga, the Queen, is killed. The Elves wanted to take Jane (aka the Aether) with them, but they had to leave before they could. Thor helps Loki escape and they use Jane to lure the leader of the Dark Elves to Svartalfheim. The leader of the Elves draws the Aether out of Jane but Loki and Thor are unable to destroy it while it’s exposed. The Elves takes the Aether and leave, and Loki ends up taking a sword that was meant for Thor. He supposedly dies, what a surprise. Thor and Jane team up with Selvig and they find out that the center of the convergence will be in Greenwich. Thor fights with the elves when they come to Greenwood and he ultimately defeats them and destroys their ship.

Thor returns to Asgard and yet again refuses the throne when Odin offers it to him. He tells Odin about Loki’s sacrifice and he turns to leave. As he leaves, Odin transforms, and it’s revealed that he was actually Loki in disguise.

Post credit scene: The Warriors Three (Thor’s friends) take the Aether to the Collector on Knowhere for him to protect and keep safe. They say that with the Tesseract already stored on Asgard, it would be dangerous for two Infinity Stones to be so close together. This reveals that the Tesseract and the Aether are both Infinity Stones.

Post credit scene: Thor arrives back on Earth to make out with Jane, essentially.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Most important things to take away: Bucky isn’t dead, he’s the Winter Soldier. He’s been brainwashed by HYDRA and is an accomplished super soldier assassin. Sam/The Falcon are introduced. HYDRA infiltrated SHIELD after WWII and is exposed in this movie. Steve finds out that the Winter Solider killed Tony’s parents. Bucky starts to regain a few tiny memories.

Steve Rogers has no credentials for any sort of job in the modern era, so he works for Fury and SHIELD. He and Natasha regularly work with a Strike Team led by Brock Rumlow. He’s trying to adjust to modern society. Him, Natasha, and the team are saving hostages from a SHIELD ship when Steve realizes that Natasha has another agenda, a secret mission of her own – to get data from the ship computers for Fury. Steve confronts him and Fury talks to him about Project Insight, which is supposed to be a preemptive protection program. It would eliminate threats before they were threats. Fury can’t decrypt the data though and he becomes suspicious of the leader of the Project, Secretary of Internal Security and SHIELD official, Alexander Pierce, and he asks him to delay the project. On his way to meet with Maria Hill, Fury is attacked by the Winter Solider.

Fury hides out in Steve’s apartment, but he is shot down by the Winter Soldier. He gives Steve the flash drive of information and warns him that SHIELD is compromised. Steve chases after the Winter Soldier but he disappears. Fury supposedly dies. Steve hides the flash drive at the hospital when he is summoned by Pierce. Pierce wants the information that Fury gave him, but Steve refuses and then fights off everyone and becomes a fugitive of SHIELD. Natasha retrieves the flash drive and they are both on the run now. They go to a bunker of SHIELD’s and finds a supercomputer that is preserving the consciousness of Dr. Zola. Zola reveals that HYDRA has infiltrated SHIELD and has been a part of SHIELD since the end of World War II. HYDRA, acting as SHIELD, has caused global chaos to further their own agenda. When people became a problem or a threat, they were eliminated. It’s revealed that the Winter Solider and HYDRA killed Howard and Maria Stark in 1991. We find out that Pierce is basically the head of HYDRA at this point, and that Rumlow is also HYDRA. Natasha and Steve are attacked by HYDRA and escape, and they hide out at Steve’s new friend Sam’s house.

The three of them team up and find out via a HYDRA mole in SHIELD that Zola wrote an algorithm that would identify people that would pose future threats to HYDRA. HYDRA then used this algorithm with Project Insight...so essentially, Project Insight’s purpose wasn’t to protect the world from potential threats, but was to kill anyone who might pose a threat to HYDRA now or in the future. They’d do this with the three Helicarriers that were to be launched. The three heroes then get into a fight with HYDRA and the Winter Soldier, and it’s revealed that the Winter Soldier is actually Bucky. Bucky had been experimented on with a super solider serum when he was captured by Zola during the war, and this serum allowed him to survive his fall from the train. He’s been brainwashed by HYDRA and doesn’t remember who he is, and he has a metal arm. Before the launch of the Project Insight Helicarriers, Natasha and Fury show up and overpower Pierce. Natasha releases all of the information about HYDRA/SHIELD online, exposing HYDRA. Steve and Sam are working to shut down the three Helicarriers. They shut down two but Steve is confronted by Bucky on the third. He stops the Helicarrier but refuses to hurt Bucky. He and Bucky are both thrown into the Potomac as the Helicarriers crash into each other and fall out of the sky. Bucky pulls Steve out of the river and leaves him on the bank before disappearing. Now, Steve’s new mission is to take out the remaining HYDRA cells and also search for the Winter Soldier.

Post credit scene: Foreshadows Age of Ultron. It shows HYDRA scientist Wolfgang von Strucker using Loki’s scepter to experiment on people – and it shows two of the subjects, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, in cells.

Post credit scene: Bucky, in disguise, visits the Captain America exhibit at the Smithsonian and comes across a memorial for Bucky Barnes.

Guardians of the Galaxy

Most important things to take away: The Guardians of the Galaxy are introduced as are the Ravagers. Nebula and Gamora are revealed to be Thanos’s adopted daughters, and they don’t like him at all. The stone inside the orb is revealed to be an Infinity Stone, and there is a whole scene giving background on the Infinity Stones and why they’re important. Peter Quill is revealed to only be half-human.

Peter Quill was abducted by space pirate aliens (The Ravagers) in 1988 after his mother dies of cancer. Fast forward to 2014, Peter is still with the Ravagers. He goes to a planet to retrieve an orb. Quill gets the orb and Yondu (leader of the space pirate aliens crew) finds out that he stole it and puts a bounty out for him. Ronan is a Kree working for Thanos. Thanos has lent him his adopted daughters Gamora and Nebula. Ronan sends Gamora to retrieve the orb. On Xandar, Peter tries to sell the orb but has no success. He fights with Gamora, who wants the Orb, and Rocket and Groot join in because they want the bounty on Quill’s head. They’re all arrested and sent to space jail, where they meet Drax. Gamora reveals that she is betraying Ronan, she doesn’t want to give him the orb and its power. She was actually going to sell it to a buyer she already had lined up, so that gang breaks out of prison and goes to meet with the buyer.

The buyer ends up being the Collector on Knowhere. The Collector reveals that inside the orb is an Infinity Stone. There are six infinity stones scattered across the universe. They’re items of immeasurable power and only the most powerful of beings can wield them. There’s an explosion and the Guardians escape with the orb. The Guardians flee but are tracked down by Ronan’s followers as well as Nebula. Ronan takes the orb, and the Ravagers save the stranded Guardians. The Guardians decide to trade the orb if the Ravagers help them get it back and then to let them go. Ronan puts the Infinity Stone in his hammer and takes the power for himself instead of giving it to Thanos. Nebula hates Thanos, so she sides with Ronan. Groot sacrifices himself to save the Guardians. Ronan goes to destroy Xandar but he is met by the Guardians. Peter frees the stone from the hammer, and the Guardians use it to destroy Ronan. They give the empty orb to Yondu and give the Stone to the Nova Corps on Xandar for protection. The Nova Corp expunges their criminal records and reveals to Quill that he’s only half-human.

Post credit scene: Baby Groot is dancing in a pot to The Jackson 5.

Post-credit scene: The Collector is sitting in his archive with Howard the Duck and Cosmo the space dog.

Avengers: Age of Ultron

Most important things to take away: Thor goes to a magic pond in a cave and has a vision about the Infinity Stones – it’s the first time we see all six. Vision is created as a result of Ultron and Loki’s scepter. The glowing things in the middle of the scepter is shown to be holding an infinity stone, which ultimately gets imbedded in Vision’s head. Tony retires from the Avengers, Clint also retires from the Avengers, Pietro dies, Wanda joins the team, Rhodey, Vision, and Sam officially join the Avengers, Clint has a secret family and a farm, and the Hulk disappears and no one knows where he went.

The Avengers have been taking down HYDRA cells and searching for Loki’s scepter, which was stolen by HYDRA. HYDRA used the Scepter’s powers to make two enhanced individuals: Wanda, who has freaky mind powers, and Pietro, who has super speed (“He’s got increased metabolism and improved thermal homeostasis. Her thing is neural electric interfacing, telekinesis, mental manipulation.” “Huh?” “He’s fast, and she’s weird”). They find it and before Tony can grab it, Wanda uses her mind powers to trigger his PTSD from the wormhole. This prompts him and Bruce to restart their idea for Ultron, a global peace-keeping initiative. They fail - they can’t get it to work over the three days they spent trying. They leave the scepter in the lab and go to the party. Ultron comes online by himself, takes control of some Iron Man drones, kills JARVIS, and escapes.

The Avengers track Ultron down in South Africa, where he’s trying to get some Vibranium from Ulysses Klaue. Wanda and Pietro have teamed up with Ultron because Ultron has determined that the greatest threat to global peace are in fact the Avengers, and Pietro and Wanda blame Tony for their parents’ death. Wanda gets in almost everyone’s head and triggers the Hulk into attacked Johannesburg. The Avengers have to hide out at a safe house, which turns out to be Clint’s farmhouse with his secret family. Nick Fury shows up and rallies them to fight. Ultron is trying to build himself a better body, and Wanda finds out that he doesn’t just want to kill the Avengers – he wants to exterminate all humans. Steve, Clint, and Natasha steal Ultron’s new body, but Ultron gets away and kidnaps Natasha.

Tony and Bruce uploads JARVIS’s code to the new body and Thor shows up after returning after having a vision about the Infinity Stones. Thor uses the stone from inside the scepter and Mjolnir to bring the body to life. Vision is created and Natasha sends a signal that shows she’s in Sokovia. The Avengers rush to fight Ultron in Sokovia, where he is planning to lift the city upwards and drop it like an asteroid to cause a mass extinction. Wanda and Pietro switch sides and they all fight Ultron’s army of robots. SHIELD shows up and they evacuate all the citizens and then blow up the city while it’s in the air so it doesn’t fall. Pietro saves Clint’s life by sacrificing his own. The Hulk flies off in a Quinjet after the battle and refuses to get in contact with the Avengers.

Post credit scene: Thanos states that he’s getting tired of waiting for his minions to get the Infinity Stones for him. He puts on the Infinity Gauntlet and says that he’s going to go get them himself.

Ant-Man

Most important things to take away: Hank Pym and his daughter Hope don’t have the best relationship but they seem to repair it by the end of the movie. Scott is just trying to be a good dad and to not go back to prison after his release, but he gets back into stealing. He masters the Ant-Man suit created by Hank and Janet van Dyne might not be dead. Scott and Sam have a fight. Hope gets the Wasp suit.

In 1989, Hank Pym resigns from SHIELD because he discovers that Howard Stark and SHIELD are trying to replicate his Ant-Man shrinking technology. In present day, his daughter (who’s not his biggest fan) Hope van Dyne and his mentee Darren Cross (sadly, NOT Darren Criss) have essentially taken over Pym Technologies and shut him out of it. Cross is working on his own shrinking suit and Hank doesn’t trust that, so he hires recently-released-from-prison former thief Scott Lang to break in and steal the suit. Scott has had trouble holding down a job since his release and he wants to be able to pay child support and do well by his daughter Cassie, so he agrees.

Hope has begun to distrust Cross too and she and Hank team up to train Scott on how to use the Ant-Man suit. It’s revealed that Hope is estranged from her father because she blames him for her mother’s death. He mother, Janet, had supposedly died (shocker) when she tried to stop a Soviet missile and disappeared into the Quantum Realm, because no one can return from the Quantum Realm...right? Scott tries to break into the Avengers compound to steal a part needed for the heist, and he briefly fights Sam Wilson. Cross finishes his suit and unveils it, and plans to sell it to HYDRA. When the they attempt to steal the suit, Scott, Hope, and Hank are captured. Scott breaks free and he and Hope kick ass and take down the HYDRA goons. Cross escapes and Scott runs after him. Cross puts on his suit and he and Scott fight while shrinking. Scott messes with Cross’s suit so that it keeps shrinking uncontrollably, and Cross pretty much shrinks to death. Scott accidentally gets sucked into the Quantum Realm, but he survives and makes it back out which leads Hank to wonder if his wife might still be alive.

Post credit scene: After being upset the whole movie that her dad was giving a random criminal a suit and not her, Hank gives Hope an unfinished ‘Wasp’ suit and she says “it’s about damn time”

Post credit scene: It’s part of a scene from Civil War. Bucky, Sam, and Steve are talking. They say they need help but can’t ask Tony, and Sam says he know “a guy” (Scott, who he found in Ant-Man) who can help them

Captain America: Civil War

Most important things to take away: Steve and his friends don’t support the Accords, Tony and his friends do. This results in a fight. Steve lied to Tony about his parents for two years to protect Bucky and there’s a huge fight when Tony finds out Steve lied. The Avengers are ripped apart, right down the middle. T’Challa lets Bucky stay in Wakanda. Steve and the others are all considered global fugitives. Steve gives Tony a cell phone to contact him with if he ever needs help. Spider-Man is introduced.

Steve and the Avengers are supposedly going on all these mission to take down HYDRA cells that still exist, but Steve is also secretly trying to find Bucky. Steve takes a not-combat-ready Wanda along on a mission and she ends up killing a bunch of civilians and the world is scared and pissed. It’s been in the works since NYC and DC and Sokovia, but General Ross (now Secretary of Defense Ross) shows up to bring up the Sokovia Accords. The Sokovia Accords are the result of the UN wanting to hold the Avengers accountable – they’ve been running around the world wreaking havoc and then disappearing and not dealing with the aftermath. 117 countries have signed the Accords and the UN is going to enact them the next day. If the Avengers don’t sign, they’ll either have to retire or be branded illegal vigilantes. The Avengers debate it. Tony is in favor of it, he wants accountability and has already signed, and Steve is against is because he’s an idiot and he thinks that governments have agendas (he apparently doesn’t know that the UN isn’t a government) and that the Avengers know best. It’s later kind of inferred that he was also worried that the Accords wouldn’t let him find and rehabilitate Bucky.

Peggy dies and Steve goes to Europe for her funeral. The Accords are being signed in Vienna and are spearheaded by T’Chaka, the king of Wakanda. The UN building is bombed and T’Chaka is killed. According to surveillance, Bucky is the one who bombed the UN, and T’Challa (prince of Wakanda) wants revenge. Steve and Sam tracks down Bucky before the Security Council can bring him in and believe him when he says he’s innocent. Bucky has been living on his own and regaining his memories. Bucky, Sam, and Steve run from the Security Council, and later fight with T’Challa before being taken into custody. Tony shows up and offers to wipe everyone’s slate clean, legitimize everything that just happened, and get Bucky psychiatric help if Steve and Sam just sign the Accords. He agrees with Steve that amendments are needed and that that can be achieved if everyone signs, and Steve almost signs but he gets angry when Tony mentions he’s having Vision keep Wanda inside the Compound because the world is wanting her head because they think he’s dangerous. A UN psychiatrist is revealed to be a bad guy and he triggers Bucky into becoming the Winter Soldier. Everyone fights with the Winter Soldier and Steve and Sam eventually run off with him.

Bucky talks about how he’s not been doing any of this bad stuff and how the guy who was pretending to be a psychiatrist is out to get them. He talks about how there are actually five other winter soldiers that are being kept in stasis in a HYDRA bunker in Siberia. They rationalize that this bad guy (whose name is Zemo) is wanting to trigger these soldiers. Rather than going to the UN or asking Tony for help, Steve, Sam and Bucky don’t think that they’ll have the time to deal with all the bureaucracy and go to stop the soldiers and Zemo themselves.

Sam, Bucky, and Steve have broken the law by fleeing UN custody, and Tony is sent to stop them before they can go to Siberia. Both sides have recruited backup. On Tony’s side are T’Challa, Rhodey, Spider-Man, Vision, and Natasha. On Steve’s side are Bucky, Sam, Hawkeye, Wanda (who was broken out of the compound by Hawkeye), and Ant-Man. There’s an epic airport fight. Bucky and Steve escape after Natasha flips sides and lets them escape. Rhodey is paralyzed during the fight. Wanda, Sam, Clint, and Scott are arrested and sent to the Raft, an underwater prison for superheroes.

Tony finds out that Zemo is the one who is behind all of this and realizes that he was wrong in thinking that it was Barnes. He goes to the Raft and talks Sam into revealing where Barnes and Steve went. He shows up in Siberia to help them defeat the soliders and they are briefly all on the same side. BUT HEY! Remember how Steve found out that Bucky killed Tony’s parents two years ago? Yeah, Steve never told Tony any of that, and Steve has been using Tony’s money to fund missions to search for Bucky. Zemo is found to have already killed all the soldiers – the soldiers was never his plan. He wants to make the Avengers rip themselves apart, and he does so by showing Tony the video of the Winter Soldier killing his parents. Tony is initially mad at Bucky but then, once he discovers that Steve knew for two years and never told him, he’s mad at both of them. The three of them fight, and Bucky and Steve disable Tony’s suit and leave him injured in Siberia. T’Challa had followed them and realized Bucky wasn’t responsible for his father’s death. He offers to take them to Wakanda. Steve breaks the others out of the Raft, Natasha joins them. Steve send a letter and a cell phone to Tony in case Tony ever needs to contact him for help.

Post credit scene: Bucky decides to go back into cryostasis until a cure can be found to undo HYDRA’s mental programming. T’Challa grants Steve and the rogue avengers asylum in Wakanda.

Post credit scene: Aunt May asks about why Peter has a black eye and he lies to her about it. Peter Parker is sent a new set of web-shooters by Tony, and they shine a spider-man symbol on the ceiling.

Doctor Strange

Most important things to take away: Stephen Strange becomes a practitioner of the mystic arts after losing his ability to be a surgeon. Another Infinity Stone, inside the Eye of Agamotto, is revealed. We learn that the sorcerers are in charge of protecting the Earth from otherworldly magical threats. Strange becomes the Sorcerer Supreme.

Kaecilius and his followers break into the compound at Kamar-Taj and steal a page from a book that belongs to the Ancient One. In NYC, Stephen Strange is shown to be an arrogant and cocky neurosurgeon. He gets in a car accident that severely injures his hands, ending his career as a surgeon. He exhausts all of his money trying to find a cure. As a last hope, he approaches a guy names Pangborn who was apparently paralyzed below the waist but regained use of his legs. Pangborn tells him he found healing at Kamar-Taj and Strange goes to Kamar-Taj and begs for be taken in. Mordo, a sorcerer who studies under the Ancient One (the Sorcerer Supreme), finally takes him in.

The Ancient One demonstrates her power to Strange and he begs to be taught. The Ancient One, Mordo, and Wong (the Master in charge of the library) teach him. Strange also himself teaches himself by reading almost all the books in the library. Strange learns how Kamar-Taj is connected to and is accessible to three sanctums across the world, which together form a protective shield against ‘magical’ threats against the world. The Sanctums are in New York, Hong Kong, and London, and Kaecilius wants to destroy them so that the world would be open to attack from the Master he serves, Dormammu (who lives in the Dark Dimension). Strange also learns about the Eye of Agamotto which can control time (it’s actually an Infinity Stone). Wong and Mordo warn him not to mess with the laws of nature, like Kaecilius.

Kaecilius uses the stolen page from the book to contact Dormammu. He destroys the London sanctum which weakens Earth’s defensive shield. He attacks the New York sanctum where he kills the guardian but fights Stephen. Stephen receives help from the Cloak of Levitation, and Mordo and the Ancient One show up. It’s revealed that the Ancient One was using magic from the Dark Dimension to prolong her life, which causes Mordo to become disillusioned in everything he’s been taught. Kaecilius kills the Ancient One and heads to Hong Kong. By the time Mordo and Strange get to Hong Kong, Wong is dead and the Sanctum has fallen and Dormammu is descending. Strange uses the Eye of Agamatto to reset everything and then he enters the Dark Dimension to fight Dormammu. He traps both himself and Dormammu in a time loops and lets Dormammu kill him over and over and over until Dormammu agrees to give up if Strange breaks the time loop, and leave Earth with Kaecilius and his followers. Mordo, still disillusioned by everything and now by Strange, leaves. Strange takes the place of the guardian at the New York Sanctum and since the Ancient One is dead, he’s essentially now the Sorcerer Supreme as well.

Post credit scene: A scene from Doctor Strange. Dr. Strange asks Thor why he brought Loki to Earth and Thor states that they’re looking for Odin and once he finds them that they will all return to Asgard. Hearing this, Dr. Strange agrees to help them find Odin.

Post credit scene: Karl Mordo confronts Pangborn and takes away the magic that was healing him, leaving him paralyzed. He’s undoing this kind of stuff because he says there are “too many sorcerers”.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2

Most important things to take away: Peter is half-celestial. His father, Ego, is a living planet and is evil and wants to take over the universe. Yondu is the father Peter never knew he really had. Peter briefly realizes he has Celestial powers but then he loses them. Mantis joins the gang. Gamora and Nebula make up and Nebula leaves to go hunt down Thanos.

This takes place a few months after the first Guardians of the Galaxy. The Guardians are essentially heroes for hire and are going around the galaxy getting paid to do certain jobs. They get hired by the Sovereign race and their leader Ayesha to protect some batteries, but Rocket ends up stealing them. They receive Nebula as payment and try and escape before the Sovereigns realize Rocket stole the batteries. The Sovereigns pursue them and attack, and a mystery figure on a nearby ship helps them get away. Their ship crashes and the mystery figure lands near the crash. The mystery figure reveals himself to be Ego, Peter’s father. He had paid Yondu to pick Peter up on Earth after his mother died and deliver him to Ego’s planet, but Yondu stole Peter instead. Ego invites Peter, Gamora, and Drax to go back to his home planet with him and his ‘pet’/servant Mantis, an empath.

Yondu and his crew have been exiled from the Ravager society by the Ravager leader Stakar Ogord for child trafficking, which goes against the Ravager Code. Ayesha tries to hire Yondu to recapture the Guardians, but Yondu practically raised Peter and is hesitant to turn him in. The crew mutinies against him and only Yondu and Kraglin, his right hand man, survive. The crew kidnaps Groot and Rocket, who stayed behind to work on the ship repairs. Groot steals back Yondu’s fin which controls his arrow, and the four of them escape.

Ego reveals to Peter that Yondu hadn’t actually been trafficking children. He tells Peter that he paid Yondu to deliver him only. In reality, Ego had been paid to collect and deliver tons of Ego’s kids to him but Yondu then realized that Ego wasn’t wanting his kids because he was a caring father – he was killing them. Ego doesn’t tell Peter any of this. Yondu had discovered that Ego was trying to find out if any of his kids carried the Celestial gene, since all his kids were potentially half-celestial. When the kids couldn’t access the Celestial power, they were killed and Ego stored their bones in a cave. He doesn’t tell Peter any of that, he doesn’t tell him that Yondu found out. When Yondu discovered this, he refused to deliver the next to him – and the next kid just happened to be Peter. Ego just told Peter that Yondu stole him and that Ego has been looking for Peter ever since.

Ego wants to take over the universe. He has planted parts of himself on all these different planets he has visited (where he met women to have kids with), but he needs the power of two Celestials to activate those parts of himself. Ego is essentially the planet he lives on (his brain is the planet’s core), and if he can activate the other parts of himself on other planets, he can take them over. Peter ends up being able to control Celestial power, and Ego invites him to join in his universal domination. Peter refuses and Ego forcibly drains the celestial power from Peter anyway. Nebula and Gamora discover the cave of bones and realize Ego is evil and rush to help Peter, as do Rocket, Yondu, Kraglin and Groot. Rocket makes a bomb out of his stolen batteries, and while Peter fights Ego the Guardians blow up the brain and the planet disintegrates. Peter loses his Celestial powers when Ego dies and Yondu sacrifices himself to save Peter. Peter realizes Yondu has been like his real father this entire time: he didn’t kidnap him, he protected him from Ego. Nebula and Gamora make up and Nebula leaves the gang to go hunt down Thanos herself.

Post credit scene: Kraglin is playing with Yondu’s arrow and accidentally hits Drax.

Post credit scene: Stakar decides to get the ‘band’ back together.

Post credit scene: Ayesha is creating a creature in a weird golden cacoon that will be capable of destroying the Guardians. She decides to call her creation “Adam” (most important one).

Post credit scene: Peter walks into teenage Groot’s room and acts like a total dad.

Post credit scene: the Watchers walk away from their informant (Stan Lee).

Spider-Man: Homecoming

Most important things to take away: Peter really wants to be a full blown Avenger and to have any sort of relationship with Tony, who is his idol, but Tony pretty much ignores him and tells him to stick to small crime stuff. Peter gets involved with Toomes and Tony gets upset with him and takes back the suit he made him. Peter still goes after Toomes and defeats him in his homemade suit. Tony realizes he needs to be a part of Peter’s life more and offers him a position as a full Avenger but Peter turns it down in favor of staying a neighborhood Spider-Man. Pepper and Tony get engaged.

This takes place right after Civil War. Ignore when it says that it’s 2020. It’s not. They’re wrong.

Right after the Battle of New York, Adrian Toomes runs a salvage company and his crew is working on cleaning up the city. The cleanup is taken over by the Department of Damage Control (DODC), which Tony Stark helped found with the government. Toomes is angry that they’re out of business now and he steals of truck of alien tech. He and his men use that tech to make weapons that they sell on the black market. They do that for years. That takes us to 2016. We see Peter’s point of view of the events in Civil War. After they get back from Germany, Tony drops him back off at his apartment and says that Peter isn’t ready to be a full blown Avenger yet, so Peter has to go back to school like nothing has changed. He keeps giving Tony and Happy updates on his adventures around Queens but is pretty much ignored by the both of them. His best friend Ned discovers his identity.

Peter discovers that some guys in Queens are using alien tech to make illegal weapons. Peter chases after one of Toomes’s guys making a sale but Toomes swoops in with his Vulture wings and drops Peter in a lake. Tony remote-pilots a suit and tells him to not get involved with these criminal. Toomes’s guy left behind a small piece of alien tech which Peter pockets, and he and Ned try and figure out what the power core can do. Peter is tracking the guy, and he’s headed to Maryland – close to where Peter is headed with his decathlon team. He abandons the team, disables the tracker Tony put in his suit, and stops Toomes from hijacking a DODC truck. Peter gets trapped inside the truck and is consequently trapped in a DODC warehouse until he can escape, which causes him to miss the decathlon tournament. The alien tech core is still in Ned’s backpack and it goes off while the team is inside the Washington Monument. Peter rescues the team, including his crush Liz, as Spider-Man. When he returns to New York, he follows Toomes onto the Staten Island Ferry where he’s meeting with Mac Gargan to make a sale. Toomes escapes, Gargan is captured, and Iron Man has to come in and save the day. Mad that Peter disobeyed him, Tony takes away the suit he made Peter and says that they’re done.

Peter tried to return to being a regular high schooler and asks Liz to homecoming. When he goes to pick her up for a date, he realizes that Toomes is her dad. On the ride to the school, Toomes is able to deduce that Peter is Spider-Man. He threatens him and says that if he interferes with his plans, he’ll retaliate. Peter tries to get himself to go into the dance but he realizes that Toomes is going to try and hijack Tony’s plane that is moving all of his stuff out of Avengers tower, which he just sold. He puts on his old homemade suit and follows Toomes to a warehouse. Toomes drops the warehouse on him but Peter is able to lift the building off himself and get onto the plane, causing it to crash on the beach by Coney Island. He defeats Toomes and leaves him tied up near the recovered cargo for the authorities and Happy to find. Liz moves away after her dad is arrested, and Tony admits he was wrong and that he should’ve been more involved in Peter’s life. He promises to be more involved and offers Peter a full time position as an Avenger but Peter declines, thinking it’s a test. It wasn’t a test, and Tony proposes to Pepper in place of the “big announcement” that they told the room full of reporters they had. Tony gives Peter his high tech suit back and Aunt May walks in on Peter in it, figuring out his secret identity.

Post credit scene: Toomes encounters Gargan, the Scorpion, in prison who asks Toomes to confirm the rumor that he knows who Spider-Man is. Toomes refuses to reveal his identity.

Post credit scene: Captain America films another PSA about how patience isn’t always worth it, effectively breaking the fourth wall.

Thor: Ragnarok

Most important things to take away: Mjolnir, Thor’s hammer, is destroyed. Loki is alive and has been pretending to be Odin for, like, four years. Odin dies, releasing Thor’s bloodthirsty sister Hela, who tries to take over Asgard. Thor and the others destroy Asgard to defeat her. Loki and Thor get stranded on the planet Sakaar. The Hulk has been the Hulk for two straight years, transforms back into Bruce, and then back into the Hulk by the end of the movie. Valkyrie joins the gang. Thor become king and realizes he has lightning powers. The Asgardians are heading to Earth when they’re stopped by Thanos’s ship.

Thor has been spending the past two years (after Ultron) searching the universe for the Infinity Stones. He hasn’t found any and is currently captured by Surtur, who wants to unleash Ragnarok (aka Armageddon) on Asgard like the prophecy foretold. To start Ragnarok, Surtur has to drop his crown into the eternal flame that is in Asgard’s vaults. He reveals to Thor that Odin is no longer on Asgard. Thor escapes and returns to Asgard to find Loki masquerading as Odin. He forces Loki to take him to where he sent Odin, which was a retirement home on Earth that is now demolished. Dr. Strange helps them find Odin in Norway. Odin reveals that he is dying and that his powers have been the only thing keeping his bloodthirsty, war-hungry firstborn daughter Hela trapped in prison. When he dies, she will be released. Then he dies, and she is released. She declares herself Queen now that Odin is dead, catches and destroys Mjolnir when Thor throws it at her, and when Loki tried to get the Bifrost to transport them back to Asgard, she clings to them and kicks them out into space on the ride back. Hela arrives in Asgard, kills everyone who opposes her and refuses to submit to her, and resurrects her giant pet wolf and raises a zombie army. When she tries to open the Bifrost to go conquer some more realms, she finds that the sword that opens the Bifrost has been stolen (by Heimdall, who is hiding out in the mountains with Asgardian refugees).

Thor and Loki have both crash landed on Sakaar, which is basically a trash planet since it’s surrounded by wormholes. Because time and space are wonky, Loki arrives weeks before Thor even though he was kicked off the Bifrost only seconds before Thor. In that time, Loki has gained the Grandmaster’s (the leader of Sakaar) favor. Thor on the other hand is found by Scrapper 142 (who is later revealed to be a Valkyrie, a member of the all-woman group of warriors on Asgard who are supposedly all dead) and is brought to the Grandmaster to fight in his Tournament of Champions. If Thor can defeat the Grandmaster’s champion, he will get his freedom. While waiting to fight, Thor makes friends with fellow prisoners Korg and Miek. Inside the collusieum, Thor waits to find out who his opponent is and it turns out to be the Hulk. Thor doesn’t want to fight him but he can’t make contact with Bruce inside of the Hulk so they battle. Thor discovers he has lightning powers and the Grandmaster ends the fight prematurely to prevent him from winning. Thor wakes up in a room with the Hulk and triedsto convince him and Valkyrie to help him escape to no avail. He manages to escape and tries to make it to the Quinjet which brought the Hulk to Sakaar, but the Hulk chases after him and destroys the Quinjet’s engines. Inside the Quinjet, Hulk sees a video of Natasha which prompts him to transform back into Bruce Banner for the first time in 2 years. Bruce mentions that this is the first time the Hulk has been in control for that long and he’s scared that if he turns into the Hulk again, he may not be able to turn back.

The Grandmaster thinks that Thor kidnapped the Hulk since no one can find the Hulk and he sends Loki and Valkyrie to find him. Loki and Valkyrie end up fighting, and Valkyrie wins and takes Loki captive. She finds Thor and Bruce and says that she’s tired of running from her past and wants to join the team and save Asgard. She offers Loki up as a peace offering, and Loki doesn’t want to be left behind now that he’s fallen out of favor with the Grandmaster so he helps them steal one of the Grandmaster’s ships. Loki tries to betray Thor but Thor saw that coming and was ready for it. Thor frees Korg and Miek and leaves Loki behind. Eventually, Korg and Miek and the revolution they started arrive at the hangar and Loki convinces them to team up with him. Both groups head to Asgard.

Hela’s forces are attacking Heimdall and the refugees but Thor and the gang draw her attention away from them. Thor fights her in the palace while Heimdall and the others try and help the refugees to the Bifrost. The zombie army and the giant wolf try and stop them. Hulk comes back and fights the wolf while Loki and the Sakaarian revolutionaries show up in a giant ship. The refugees start to get on the ship and Thor loses an eye in his fight with Hela. He uses his new lighting powers and gets away from Hela to join the fight on the bridge. Realizing that Hela is only getting stronger the longer she stays on Asgard, Thor and the gang realize they’ll have to destroy Asgard to destroy her. Thor gives Surtur’s crown to Loki to drop in the eternal flame to summon Surtur to start Ragnarok. While running through the vault to get to the flame, Loki can’t help but get distracted by the Tesseract. Surtur comes in and destroys Asgard and Hela, and the Asgardians get away. Thor is the new king of Asgard and proclaims that they’re going to head to Earth for refuge.

Post credit scene: Thanos’s ship shows up in front of the Asgardian ship before the Asgardians can make it to Earth. This happens mere minutes before the beginning of Infinity War.

Post credit scene: The Grandmaster, when cornered by Sakaarian citizens, congratulates them on the revolution and calls it a draw.

Black Panther

Most important things to take away: T’Challa is now king of Wakanda in addition to being the Black Panther. Shuri is extremely smart. Erik is revealed to be T’Challa’s cousin and he challenges and defeats T’Challa for the throne. M’Baku and the Jabari tribe team up with T’Challa and help him win back the throne. T’Challa decides that Wakanda is going to come out of hiding and share its knowledge and resources with the world.

A meteorite containing vibranium crashes into Wakanda and the five tribes battle over it. One warrior ingests an herb which turns him into the first Black Panther. All the tribes but the Jabari tribe join together to form the nation of Wakanda. The Jabari live in isolation in the mountains. Wakanda isolates itself to protect the Vibranium and to prevent more fighting, they pretend to be a third world country. In 1992, T’Chaka (the current king) visits his brother N’Jobu is Oakland, California. His spy, Zuri, has been undercover as N’Jobu’s friend and discovered that N’Jobu was working with Ulysses Klaue to steal vibranium. N’Jobu tries to attack Zuri and T’Chaka kills N’Jobu to protect him. The Wakandans leave, leaving N’Jobu’s son behind. In modern times, T’Challa arrives home for his coronation. Part of the coronation is ritual combat, where T’Challa is stripped of his Black Panther powers and anyone can challenge him for the crown. The challenge ends when one of the fighters either yields or dies. M’Baku of the Jabari challenge him but T’Challa wins.

Klaue is working with Erik Stevens to steal a Wakandan artifact from a museum in London. Klaue is going to sell that Vibranium to a seller in South Korea. T’Challa, Nakia (his maybe girlfriend) and Okoye (the general of his kingsguard) go to capture him. W’Kabi, Okoye’s lover and T’Challa’s friend tells them to bring Klaue back alive because he has to pay for all the pain he’s caused them. Klaue was going to sell the Vibranium to the Everett Ross and the CIA, but a fight breaks out and Klaue is captured by T’Challa who agrees to let the CIA take him in. Erik and the rest of Klaue’s gang break him out of CIA custody and Ross is gravely injured protecting Nakia. When trying to pursue them, T’Challa notices that Erik is wearing a Wakandan ring on a chain around his neck. Only two of those rings existed – his father owned one and his uncle owned the other. The gang retreats to Wakanda with Ross, where Shuri heals him. W’Kabi is extremely upset T’Challa let Klaue get away. They talk with Ross once he wakes up and he explains that Stevens was a US black ops solider. T’Challa confronts Zuri about why Erik had the other ring and Zuri reveals that Erik is actually T’Challa’s cousin and that T’Chaka and Zuri had covered up (from the Wakandans) what happened with N’Jobu, and they had left Erik behind to maintain the lie.

Erik shows up at the Wakandan border with Klaue’s body as a peace offering. He is taken before T’Challa, the royal family, and the council of elders and reveals that he is N’Jadaka, son of N’Jobu. He uses the ring to prove his identity. As a member of the royal family, he has the right to challenge T’Challa for the throne. Since it is past the coronation, T’Challa doesn’t have to accept the challenge but he does anyways. Erik kills Zuri when he tries to intervene during the ritual combat, and he defeats T’Challa and throws him off the waterfall, supposedly killing him (that’s new). Erik is given a heart shaped herb to become the next Black Panther and orders the rest of the herbs to be burned. Nakia steals one and she, the royal family, and Ross escape and run to the Jabari tribe for help. They offer the herb to M’Baku who then reveals that his tribe found T’Challa’s body and that he was barely alive. They give T’Challa the herb and he wakes up and is healed. He goes to challenge Erik is who is sending out planes with vibranium weapons to start revolutions all over the world. Shuri and Ross remote pilot a plane to shoot down the planes and T’Challa, Nakia, the Dora Milaje, and Shuri fight against Erik, W’Kabi, and their army. The Jabari join the fight and help defeat W’Kabi and the army while T’Challa fights Erik. T’Challa stabs Erik and offers to help heal him but Erik refuses to be incarcerated and would rather die a free man so he refuses and dies. T’Challa and Shuri establish outreach centers and decide to start sharing Wakanda’s secret with the rest of the world.

Post credit scene: T’Challa goes before the UN to bring Wakanda into the world’s eye and share its knowledge and resources.

Post credit scene: Shuri visits a supposedly healed Bucky Barnes in Wakanda, saying he has much to learn.

Avengers: Infinity War

Most important things to take away: Thanos collects all six infinity stones and the following heroes are either killed or are dusted during the Snap and trapped in the Soul Stone: Sam, Bucky, Mantis, Drax, Peter Parker, Peter Quill, T’Challa, Shuri, Groot, Wanda, Hope, Janet, Hank, Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Dr. Strange, Loki, Vision, Gamora. Nebula and Tony Stark are stranded on Titan. Nick Fury pages Captain Marvel for help before he dies.

Thanos has already gotten the Power Stone from Xandar when he shows up on the ship of the Asgardian refugees. He slays half of the Asgardians and the other half are nowhere to be seen. He threatens Thor to prompt Loki to give him the Tesseract, which Loki had stolen from the vault before they destroyed Asgard. Thanos crushes the tesseract to get the Space Stone out of it. Loki tries to attack him, as does the Hulk, but Thanos overpowers the Hulk and kills Loki. Heimdall send the Hulk to Earth and Thanos and his adopted children (Ebony Maw, Cull Obsidian, Proxima Midnight, and Corvus Glaive) disappear using the Space Stone as the Power Stone causes the space ship to explode. Hulk crashes into the New York Sanctum, transforming back into Bruce, and Wong and Strange go collect Tony. Bruce explains Thanos’s plan to collect all of the stones and Strange and Tony figure out that they have two stones on Earth (Vision has the Mind Stone, Strange has the Time Stone). Before they can figure out a plan of action or use the cell phone Steve sent Tony, Maw and Obsidian arrive to get the Time Stone. Obsidian is banished through a portal by Wong and Maw captures Strange. In trying to save Strange, Peter and Tony sneak aboard Maw’s space ship as it flies off. Bruce uses the cell phone to contact Steve and warn him to look out for Vision.

Vision and Wanda are spending time in Edinburgh when they’re attacked by Midnight and Glaive, but Steve and the rogue Avengers come to their rescue. They return to the Compound where they meet up with Rhodey and Bruce. Vision offers to sacrifice himself so that Wanda can just destroy the Mind Stone, thus preventing Thanos from being able to get all six, but Steve refuses to let him do so. Bruce rationalizes that they might be able to remove the stone without killing Vision. They go to Wakanda to reunite with Bucky and to get Shuri’s help removing the stone. While they’re trying to remove the stone, Midnight, Glaive, and Obsidian show up with an army. The Avengers fight alongside T’Challa and the Wakandan warriors while Shuri tries to remove the stone.

The Guardians of the Galaxy find Thor floating in space. They rescue him and he warns them about Thanos’s plan. He, Rocket, and Groot go to Nidavellir to get a new weapon. There, Thor gets a battle-axe called Stormbreaker that can kill Thanos and also summon the Bifrost. Peter, Gamora, Drax, and Mantis go to Knowhere to get the Reality Stone but Thanos has beaten them to it and kidnaps Gamora since Gamora is the only person who knows where the Soul Stone is. He has captured Nebula and tortures her in front of Gamora until she tells him where the stone is. He takes her to Vormir with him and sacrifices her to obtain the Soul Stone. The other Guardians show up on Titan, where Tony, Peter, and Strange have crashed Maw’s ship after killing him, and although there’s initial confusion, they realize they’re on the same team in wanting to defeat Thanos. Strange uses the Time Stone to look into the future and out of the millions of possible futures, he only sees them winning in one. Thanos was supposed to rendezvous with Maw on Titan, so they come up with a plan to remove the gauntlet from him when he arrives. Thanos shows up and they almost get the gauntlet off, but he breaks free and there’s an all-out fight. Thanos is about to kill Tony but Strange sacrifices the Time Stone in exchange for his life (he tells Tony it was “the only way”). Thanos now has five stones and disappears to go to Earth for the last stone.

Thor shows up with his new weapon and badass lightning powers to help with the battle in Wakanda. Wanda is drawn away from protecting Vision and Vision is stolen out of Shuri’s lab. Thanos’s children are all killed and Thanos shows up and tries to get the stone from Vision. As the Avengers try and fail to subdue Thanos, Wanda and Vision realizes that there is no other option and Wanda destroys the Mind Stone, effectively killing Vision. Thanos uses the Time Stone to undo all that, and he then plucks the stone from Vision’s head and kills him again. Thor comes out of nowhere and buries the axe in Thanos’s chest but Thanos is still able to Snap and kill off half the universe. Half of the heroes are turned to dust and sent to the Soul Stone: Sam, Bucky, Mantis, Drax, Peter Parker, Peter Quill, T’Challa, Shuri, Groot, Wanda, Hope, Janet, Hank, Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Dr. Strange. Nebula and Tony Stark are stranded on Titan.

Post credit scene: Hill and Fury disappear as a result of the Snap, but not before Fury can use his pager to send an alert to Captain Marvel.

Ant-Man and the Wasp

Most important things to take away: Janet is rescued from the Quantum Realm. Hope has her own suit and is now The Wasp and she’s kind of better at the job than Scott is. Scott makes up with Hope and Hank. During the Snap, Hank, Hope, and Janet all disappear and leave Scott stranded in the quantum realm.

After Civil War, instead of going on the run as fugitives, Scott and Clint accepted deals of house arrest to be able to be with their families. Scott begins to realize he has become quantumly entangled with Janet when he went into the Quantum Realm. Hank and Hope are still mad at him for stealing the Ant-Man suit and running off to Germany, thus making them accessories and making them fugitives of the law. Scott calls Hank to apologize and he also mentions the quantum entanglement. Scott is within days of being finished with his house arrest when he is kidnapped by Hank and Hope. They’re trying to make a quantum tunnel and now that Scott has had contact with Janet, they need him. When trying to get a part for their machine (with Hope acting as the Wasp in her own suit), they’re attacked by Ghost (Ava Starr) whose physical form is in an unstable molecular state. Foster, one of Hank’s former partners, has been helping her try and find a cure using Janet’s quantum energy. They kidnap Scott, Hank, and Hope to ask for help. Believing this will kill Janet, Hank refuses and the three escape. The three of them open the tunnel and make contact with Janet who gives them her exact coordinates. Hope and Hank are arrested as Scott rushes home to avoid being caught out of the house, and Ava is able to come in and steal the shrunken lab (they’ve been shrinking the lab to transport it).

Scott helps Scott and Hope escape FBI custody and they find the lab. Scott and Hope distract Ava while Hank enters the Quantum realm to find Janet. Hank is able to find her and bring her back, and Janet is able to help temporarily stabilize Ava. She has an idea on how to permanently cure her by harvesting quantum particles. Scott goes home and is let off of house arrest and Ava and Foster go into hiding.

Post credit scene: Hank, Hope, and Janet are watching as a shrunken down Scott collects particles in the Quantum Realm when the Snap happens. The three of them are victims of the Snap and Scott is stuck in the Quantum Realm.

Post credit scene: One of the giant ants is playing with the drum set in Scott’s house while an Emergency Alert can be heard on the TV.

Captain Marvel

Most important things to take away: Carol was an Air Force pilot who absorbed the power of the Tesseract and has Kree blood in her veins which makes her insanely powerful. She’s badass, and she’s currently in space trying to help the Skrulls find a place to live (as far as we know). Goose is a super special cat who ate the Tesseract, and Carol gave Fury a specialized pager to contact her in the case of an emergency.

Since this movie only came out three weeks ago, I’m not going to give a summary. Go see it if you want to know what happens. I’m only including what the most important things are and what the post credit scenes were.

Post credit scene: A scene from Avengers: Endgame. Steve, Natasha, Bruce, Rhodey and watching the information come in about the aftermath of the Snap around the world at the Compound when they notice that Fury’s pager that had been sending a message to Captain Marvel has shut off. While they’re gathered around it, Carol sneaks up behind them and upon them turning around she demands to know where Fury is.

Post credit scene: In Fury’s office, Goose barfs up the Tesseract on Fury’s desk.

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loveyou-x3000 · 5 years

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On Time Travel:

I've seen a lot of discussion about Endgame's time travel rules that bring in interviews and conflicting answers from people who shouldn't contradict each other, but I think this is becoming a runaway train. Forget what they say as outsiders looking in. Focus on what the characters actually establish in the movies.

"Temporal manipulations can make branches in time. Unstable dimensional openings, spacial paradoxes, time loops!" —Mordo (Doctor Strange, 2016)

Changing the past doesn't change the present. Traveling through time becomes your past regardless of whether you travel to the past or the future. (Avengers: Endgame, 2019)

I don't think it's as messy as a lot of people are saying. Everyone is looking at this with a graph where the main timeline (Endgame-2023) is the center. The only thing there ever was or will be. But it's really just the trunk of a tree.

Time is about perception, right? So is time travel in the MCU. There are no alternate universes created in Endgame, only alternate timelines - branches in time which have little effect on Endgame-2023. What are those timelines?

Avengers-2012: Loki escapes with the Tesseract. Steve is believed to be a Hydra asset by Hydra. Steve believes Loki knows that Bucky is alive. (The Ancient One meets Bruce-2023 and Steve-2023.)

Asgard-2013: Thor temporarily loses Mjolnir for unexplained reasons. Jane Foster is stabbed by a racoon. (Somehow, Steve-2023 stabs the Aether back into Jane or finds someone trustworthy enough to do so (Frigga? Loki?).)

Peggy-1940: Steve travels backwards in time and makes his new present in the 1940s (based on the car model in that scene). He marries Peggy. Happily ever after. At some poiny in his future (an unknown date, the end of this branch in time he experiences), he travels back into his past to the divergent point: 2023.

Then there's the big purple problem: Thanos.

Guardians-2014: The divergent point happens the moment both Nebulas crash on the same network. Nebula-2014 proceeds to Nebula-2023's timeline, timestamped in her suit, which becomes her own present. She brings Thanos forward to that present. Thanos-2014 and everyone from that branch except Gamora-2014 dies. In the branched 2014, Quill finds a buyer for the power stone OR is captured by Rocket and Groot and is returned to Yondu. The Guardians of the Galaxy are never formed. Thanos never returns to gather the infinity stones. Happily ever after?

Steve-2023 has two choices here: return the power stone the moment it disappeared (with Rhodey) or wait for Nebula to leave the Temple and return it. If he returns it to the exact moment, he can save Nebula, which ultimately creates an Endgame-2023v2 timeline where Thanos never comes to fight them and the team succeeds. Tony doesn't die. If he waits for her to leave there is no additional timeline.

It's not about universes collapsing or new universes. No one's actions change their future (or their past). They create divergences, branching timelines within the same universe.

If I made a visual aid, it would be a tree with lots of branches that sometimes intertwine and stay tangled, some that go in and bend back on themselves, and others that shoot out into oblivon and never come back. A world tree.

It's about the character's perception of time and how changing their own past perspective creates a new series of events.

Steve creates a branch in time and lives it out before returning to his past, having aged, to speak to Sam. (There is the issue where his body is always on ice no matter what he does, but that's another post.)

Gamora is put in a branched timeline and lives that out, beyond the death of another version of herself. She intertwines with another timeline.

Loki, presumably, will find a way to fuck everything up.

#avengers: endgame spoilers #avengers endgame #avengers: endgame #timeline shenanigans #time travel #steve rogers #captain america #nebula #tony stark #iron man #thanos #thor #frigga #loki #endgame spoilers #new ideas

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turtletotem · 5 years

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Timelines and Time Travel

So I’ve spent a lot of time this morning trying to figure out the time travel stuff in Endgame after seeing it last night. I didn’t entirely follow Bruce and the Ancient One’s explanations at the time, so I’ve had to read some articles and turn it all over in my head. I think I get it now. Mostly.

Question #1 -- How exactly does the time travel work?

Not in terms of the physical mechanism, because we would never understand it and it doesn’t actually matter. But the logic of it. How are they able to run around changing things in the past with total abandon the way they did? Because changing the past doesn’t change the present, it creates a new timeline. The things that happened in the “MCU Prime” timeline have already happened and can’t be changed. So for a change to occur, that event has to form a new timeline in order to exist.

The Ancient One implies that it’s the removal of an Infinity Stone from the timeline that causes it to branch off, because the Infinity Stones are what form the boundaries of reality. So what if you go to the past but don’t remove an Infinity Stone? We don’t know, because that didn’t happen. Everywhere they went into the past, they removed a Stone, so while it’s a super interesting question, it’s one we don’t really have to worry about.

Question #2 -- Why did they have to put the Stones back where they came from?

Because according to The Ancient One, these new timelines are unbalanced without the existence of all six Stones. It’s implied they will collapse, killing everyone in them. These are real people that now exist just as fully and independently as MCU Prime. It would be horribly wrong to let them die, so the stones must be returned. (Which means those timelines do continue to exist!) In other words, these Stones don’t belong to MCU Prime; the MCU Prime stones have been destroyed, and that cannot be undone. MCU Prime can only borrow Stones from other timelines, not steal them, not without dooming trillions of innocent people.

Question #3 -- But wait, doesn’t that mean MCU Prime is now a timeline with no Infinity Stones? Won’t it collapse?

GOOD QUESTION. NEXT MOVIE PLOT?

ETA: It could be that the stones being destroyed doesn’t have the same destabilizing effect as having them be taken from the timeline.

Question #4 -- So what alternate timelines have been created now?

If I’m not forgetting any:

New 2014 Timeline: Thanos is gone. All his army is gone, including Nebula (killed by the other Nebula) and Gamora, who is moved to our timeline. It’s hard to imagine the Guardians of the Galaxy exist as a unit in this timeline; Gamora is gone and Peter Quill never retrieved the Power Stone. In fact he was probably unconscious when Ronan and his men arrived, so unless he just escaped their notice, he’s probably dead. Ronan will run rampant with the Power Stone in this ‘verse. Who knows what will happen.

New 2012 Timeline: Loki escapes with the Tesseract after the Battle of New York. Cap fights himself, thinking it's a disguised Loki, and that Cap tells him Bucky is alive. There are are some very confused Hydra agents who at least briefly think Cap is one of them. Tony also has a coronary event in this timeline that may or may not affect him later.

New 1940s Timeline: This one is tricky, tricky, tricky. This is the one where Steve was supposed to return to the 1970s to put back a stone. It’s unclear whether he hooked up with Peggy in the 70s, or went back further to the 40s. (Fwiw, the song they’re dancing to at the end was released in 1945, and the events of Agent Carter would still take place in this timeline if he didn’t reappear until 1947). In the 70s he would have been 30 years younger than Peggy, so I’m going to guess he went back to the 40s, and had to just... be sure to remember to return the stone to the right place and time when the 70s came around.

The really funky part of this timeline is that it could be MCU Prime -- almost? close enough? -- because the bulk of Steve’s life would fit into the space between original!Steve going into the ice and him coming back out.* Captain America as we know him could still exist. But it could only be “our” timeline if Steve is careful to make no changes or interference—living under a different name (when he's married to Captain America's sweetheart and has Captain America's face), making no moves against Hydra, etc. I find it hard to believe that could happen, even if he initially intended it. Not Mr. “If I see a situation pointed south, I can't ignore it.” But this would mean that the Old Steve who appears at the end didn’t just wait for the timeline to catch up with him; he had to have chosen to finally use his Pym particles or whatever to pop back into the MCU Prime timeline, presumably after Peggy passed away. Will he stay here now, spend his last days with Bucky and Sam? I really hope so. (I have issues with him leaving Bucky as it is but that’s a different post.)

*if anyone’s even looking for him; if Steve lives publicly as his real self, why would there be a Search For Steve? They already have Steve! Would Steve let his other self remain frozen indefinitely in this timeline?

Technically there’s also a new Vormir timeline, in which Clint and Natasha retrieve the Soul Stone from Vormir (and Natasha dies there). But since they don’t affect anything else there, and the Soul Stone is assumedly returned, it’s pretty indistinguishable from MCU Prime. (Unless something big happens when Steve goes to return the stone and runs into Red Skull because HOO BOY, I WANTED TO SEE THAT SCENE.) Now that I think about it, this is actually part of the New 2014 timeline, isn’t it? Two teams went to 2014, one to Morag and one to Vormir. They time-traveled together, then split up to go to different physical locations.

I am open to All The Discussion here. I may be forgetting or misinterpreting stuff. There may be other explanations I haven’t thought of. Feel free to enlighten me.

#endgame spoilers #avengers: endgame #endgame #avengers #avengers endgame spoilers

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keepthemacramesecret · 5 years

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i know theres alread several posts going around with endgame timelines but they were all hard for me to read so i made my own. Doesnt cover the middle stuff, only the timelines that remained at the end.

Explanation under the cut

Steve/ Steggy Timeline: Goes back to the 40s to marry peggy, which created an alt timeline (i know the writers disagree but theyre literally wrong because we know mcu!peggy’s life between the war and modern day did not include her marrying steve.) So Steve lives a life in that timeline, and then shortly after peggy dies, probably 2016ish since thats when she died in mcu, he uses a now 70ish year old time travel device to go back to the 2023 he left, but given its age, its a bit glitchy and it lands him a few feet out of place (on that bench) instead of on the platform. That timeline’s original steve is still in the ice, he may or may not be found in 2012 depending on peggy’s influence in shield: she might stop them looking for him if she stays involved in which case steggy!steve stays frozen, or leave shield to keep mcu!steve a secret in which case steggy!steve is probably found. (its not plausible that shed be able to keep him secret while still working for them tbh so)

No Thanos Timeline: when nebula et al. go to 2014 it creates an alternate timeline automatically just like every other jump, but since that timeline’s thanos leaves for the mcut, this one is not left unaltered at the end. Since in this timeline thanos leaves before completing his plan naturally, no snap occurs here in the first place. I Know at least one post said that thanos leaving the past to die in the future means the main timeline should collapse but if you consider the thanos that died in 2023 to be the alternate one, the mcu timeline didnt lose its original thanos, and everythings stable. The same principle is what makes it possible for nebula to still be alive despite killing her ‘past’ self- it was the alternate version.

Tesseract Loki Timeline: This timeline was not repaired back to its baseline state because loki escaped with the tesseract. Presumably this is where the loki series will be set but We Shall See.

Every other timeline that was branched off by previous jumps was repaired by steve returning the stones and no other significant changes happening there, so these 4 are the only ones still open. the rest merged back into the main mcu timeline we’re used to once the stones were put back.

#endgame #endgame spoilers #avengers endgame #endgame timeline #avengers #marvel #i honestly didnt think it was that messy??? they obv didnt rly put thought into how their time travel works v well #but they somehow lucked into a functional timeline regardless #disclaimer tho i've only seen it once and i forgot some things probably esp bc the last couple minutes blinded me with rage :)#but this is probably more words in an explanation than is necessary tbh i just like typing #a

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kateis-cakeis · 5 years

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Time Travel....

The Russos are wrong.

Yep I’m staring this Endgame meta off with that.

Only the Infinity Stones create branching realities by removing them from the timeline. And going into the past doesn’t change anything because you were always there, based off the movie’s own logic.

Let me explain in just a few quotes.

"The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one of the stones, and that flow splits. Now this may benefit your reality. But my new one, not so much."

"Changing the past doesn't change the future."

"Think about it: If you travel to the past, that past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past."

"You have to return the stones at the exact moment you got them. Or you're gonna open up a bunch of nasty alternative realities."

This removes 2014 Thanos as a paradox because the Power Stone had been removed from that timeline, meaning it had become a branching one. When Steve returns the Power Stone to the exact moment it was taken, the original timeline is restored, but because of Thanos and his army, an alternative timeline still has to exist.

It’s why 2023 Nebula doesn’t disappear, because her past self had become an alternative universe version of herself.

The same logic works for 2012. It becomes an alternative universe because Steve fights himself, ‘Hail HYDRA’ and Tony’s heart attack.

Once Steve returns the Stones, an alt 2012 still exists, but the mcu timeline is also restored.

HOWEVER, just going to the past cannot create an alternative timeline. By the rules of the movie, that’s their future, and then becomes their past when they return to their former present, meaning they were always there.

So Dr Howard Potts always met Howard in 1970. And suspicious Captain Stevens always existed in 1970. Hank Pym lost some of his vials. No alt timeline there. Same goes for 2014 and 2013. Frigga always met future Thor. Nat always died in 2014 (although depending on how you look at it, that could be part of the alt timeline).

All of this in turn means that Steve really was Peggy’s husband the whole time. It means Sharon either didn’t know Steve was her uncle, or she knew fine well and kissed him anyway. It means there’s some children (or even grandchildren) who could have super serum genes.

It means Peggy’s 1953 interview was a pack of lies, and she was a wonderful actor, who could cry at any time to make it seem like she was still grieving Steve. (She probably learnt that trick from Angie). It would also make sense why in 1970 she had a picture of pre-serum Steve on her desk, because he was literally her husband???

Either that or… Steve lied, and he didn’t marry Peggy, but hung out in the past for some reason. Maybe to make sure the Stones ended up in the right places at the right times? (Either way, him going into the past is incredibly unhealthy).

Anyhow, that’s my hot take for this evening. Time travel does work the way it should, the Stones add an extra spicy alt universe to it, and it seems like Steve being in an alt timeline is wrong (sorry, Russos).

Yay……….

@avengersbarnes

#avengers endgame #endgame #steve rogers #nebula #thanos #i don't like this any more than most of you will #but unfortunately m&m are right #and guess steve just hates his entire existence in 2023 enough to yeet himself into hte past #sighs #i still think he's lying to us #but at least endgame doesn't have any paradoxes when you see the time travel from this angle #im happy it works #but i hate how the russos dont understand how it works and spread confusion #it was all in the quotes the whole time #yayaya....#im not happy about this #but it debunks the steve is in an alt timeline theories #sooo

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marvelcinematicmultiverse · 5 years

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Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

Okay so I’m putting this under a cut because, spoilers, but I’ve seen lots of speculation and confusion about Endgame and the way things played out, and I thought I’d layout the way I understood it, anyways, ENDGAME SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

So, when I first got out of the movie, I was confused, until I did some reading and put together a timeline of the mcu, and finally understood the time travel shenanigans in the movie. I’m gonna reference that timeline throughout this post, so here’s what I gathered.

In the movie, we’re told multiple times that whatever you do in the past, cannot change the future. This essentially means that anything they alter in the past, creates a new timeline (or a new reality, as The Ancient One calls it), instead of changing the main mcu timeline. It’s basically their way of doing time travel, without having the ripple effect erase things from the main mcu continuity (original timeline #1).

Therefore, the moment Loki disappears with the space stone in 2012, it creates a new timeline (timeline #2) where any events regarding Loki or the space stone after it, either don’t happen, or happen differently (possible plot for the new loki series?).

The same thing happens the moment that Cap goes back in time to live out his life with Peggy. A new timeline (timeline #3) is created that we know nothing about. Did Cap help Peggy found shield? Did he stop hydra from growing within shield before it ever happened? Did he go find Bucky and break him free from hydra so he never became the winter soldier?

The same thing also happens again, when Thanos from 2014 finds out about about the Avengers plan, and travels forward in time to 2023. The moment Thanos & co. travelled forward in time, it created a new timeline (timeline #4). Since the Thanos from timeline #4, dies in 2023 in the main timeline, there is now a timeline out there (timeline #4) where Thanos dies in 2014, the snap never happens, and likely the Guardians never meet, since the Guardians only met because Thanos was trying to get a hold of the power stone.

It’s the Gamora from this timeline (#4), that is now living in the main mcu timeline in 2023, and that Quill is looking for at the end of Endgame. This also means that this Gamora (from timeline #4), does not know Quill other than their brief interactions in Endgame, and was never a Guardian.

The way time travel occurs in this movie is also why Nebula from 2023 in the main timeline can kill 2014 nebula from timeline #4, and Nebula from the main timeline doesn’t die. Whatever you do in the past, cannot affect the future. Therefore when Nebula from the main timeline shoots 2014 Nebula, all it means is that timeline #4 from 2014 no longer has a Nebula.

Technically speaking, there’s also another timeline (#5?) where Cap knows Bucky is alive in 2012, as well as another timeline (#6) where hydra thinks Cap is on their side, since Cap interacted with himself, and with the hydra agents in the elevator.

I’ve also seen a lot of people saying ‘well why can’t they just go back in time and pluck Tony and Nat from the past and bring them into the future if they did it with Gamora?’ Because, they didn’t do it with Gamora on purpose. Removing Tony and Nat from the past, creates two new timelines where Tony and Nat do not exist in those timelines, similarly to how there’s a timeline (#4) where Gamora (and Thanos & Nebula) no longer exist as well. 2014 Gamora was not intentionally brought to the main mcu timeline because their Gamora died. It was done unintentionally, and she just still exists in the main mcu timeline.

Now, I’ve seen a lot of confusion over Cap going back in time, and I saw one person specifically say that The Ancient One said that branches in time were a bad thing, so how can Cap go back in time and live with Peggy without it being a bad thing? Here’s how.

The ancient one tells Bruce, ‘The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone and that flow splits. Now, this may benefit your reality, but my new one, not so much. In this new branch of reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world would be over-run and millions would suffer. Tell me, Doctor, can your science prevent all that?’

So essentially, it’s not so much going back in time and changing things that is a bad thing. Rather, it’s going back in time and removing a stone, and not returning it, that’s a bad thing. If Bruce had taken the time stone, and not brought it back, there would now be a timeline where only five stones are in existence, and in this timeline, they have no time stone to use as a defence weapon. This is why they have to bring all of the stones back to the moment they were taken (and presumably, mjolnir as well).

But, because Cap returns all of the stones before he lives out his life with Peggy (in timeline #3), there is no timeline that has a stone removed, and the timeline he is living in, also has all six stones. So Cap lives out his life, doing something we know nothing about, until he returns to the main mcu timeline, and hands the Cap mantle to Sam, at an old age.

As for how, Cap travels back to the main timeline when he’s lived out an entire life in another timeline, I have no clue. That’s a question someone else can answer. I wouldn’t know where to even begin guessing.

All of this does mean, however, that in the main mcu timeline, there are now no infinity stones in existence, because Thanos destroyed them all. And as The Ancient One explained in this movie, a reality with one stone removed has no weapon against the forces of darkness, and that world would be over-run. Our world, not only is missing one weapon, rather it’s missing all six. And as Mordo said in Doctor Strange, ‘You still think there will be no consequences, Strange? No price to pay? We broke our rules, just like her. The bill comes due. Always! A reckoning.’ You’re not supposed to tamper with time, there is always a consequence.

I’m not saying this movie doesn’t have issues. All movies have one or another. But there were several things people were saying were plotholes, and I wanted to clarify that they’re not, as well as explain the movie the way I understood it. If there’s anything I said that didn’t make sense, or that you can poke holes in, feel free. This was just my understanding of the movie, and I’d love to hear people’s thoughts on it.

#avengers endgame #thanos #gamora #nebula #captain america #steve rogers #tony stark #natasha romanoff #loki #doctor strange #stephen strange #bucky barnes #discourse #mcu

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ellestra · 5 years

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Time travel in the MCU

This confused many people so here’s how I understand it. SPOILERS!

Time travel rules in the MCU are not like Back in the Future rules most people are used to so that’s probably why it’s so confusing. You can’t disappear yourself (or your enemies) by changing past. You can only create new future - a new timeline or alternate universe - from when (2023 or 1950s) you changed the past.

Time travel in the Endgame is pretty much the same as time travel worked in Agents of SHIELD (I wonder if the showrunners were let on the mechanics). In the series they discuss whether time travel is a closed loop (you can’t change anything) or if it creates alternative timelines (and you can change it all but it’s a different universe - old one stays the same) and we see the latter is correct at the end (Deke lives).

This is the same in Endgame and because of that every time they go back to any time in MCU means that they are creating alternative timelines. They can only go back home because there is open gate on the other end guiding them back. So when Banner talks to Ancient One he’s already in another timeline and taking the stones just creates more, darker branches. This is why Ancient One tells Bruce his timeline will be fine no matter what he does but hers will be screwed without the Time Stone. Her timeline still needs it for Strange to defeat Dormamu. His is already safe from that.

Also every timeline/alternate universe needs full set of Infinity Stones to be stable so that’s why they had to be returned to where they came from. And the main MCU timeline is not unbalanced by Thanos destroying them because, most likely and just like in comics, they aren’t really gone just no longer corporeal.

So there is alternative 2012 timeline where Loki escaped with Space Stone after Tony’s reactor failure. In this timeline people think Loki impersonated Cap, pretended to be HYDRA agent and stole Mind Stone too. That’s probably the Loki we’ll see in the TV series.

And there is alternative 2014 timeline that has no Thanos (you’re welcome), his forces or Nebula (this is why current Nebula lives even though she shoots her younger self - it’s alternative timeline Nebula who dies). Stark in that timeline will be obsessing about that otherworldly threat pointlessly.

The only wrinkle in this is how the old Cap travelled back to the main MCU timeline at the end. This is what confused so many because it seems to break the rules. Generally, there are two stances how to explain that. Some people believe that post-Endgame Steve was always Peggy’s husband in main MCU timeline and just made sure to do nothing to disturb it (where would he get the shield though) - see Time’s explanation of this (also if what I wrote is still unclear - they explain time travel/alternate timeline rules too).

However, I prefer to believe Steve did create a new timeline by staying with Peggy. One - because of the rules even if Steve was around all this time Old Steve wouldn’t really be our Steve - just his version from one universe over who created this MCU timeline when he stayed with Peggy (see the rules).

And two - mostly because if he didn’t live in another timeline it would mean that Steve just stood by and did nothing when all the bad things happened. That’s not Steve Rogers we know. He’s not the man who could let HYDRA run experiments on people for decades including mindwiping Bucky (and making him kill Tony’s parents) and do nothing about it. Especially, since he knows he doesn’t endanger the timeline he came from so he can change things.

So I choose to believe He could've done it all - destroy HYDRA, saved Bucky, married Peggy, created Avengers with original Ant-Man and Wasp as in comic books. T'Chaka, Bucky and Ancient One are probably there too. And because this Steve knows what’s coming he prepares Earth for their Thanos and they stand united when he comes. And when it's all done and Peggy is gone he goes to visit old friends one last time.

Either altStark (he probably made the new shield too) could’ve devised a way through Quantum Realm when the gate is opened (all those extra years knowing about the tech) or maybe his timeline Sorcerer Supreme send him there (we know they can see and cross to alternate dimensions). Either way it’s a perfect way to let Steve be Steve and have him there at the end too and that’s what I will believe happened unless canon proves me wrong.

#avengers: endgame #avengers #mcu #avengers spoilers #avengers: endgame spoilers #agents of shield #aos #marvel's agents of shield #agents of s.h.i.e.l.d #aos spoilers #avengers endgame spoilers #time travel #endgame spoilers #infinity stones

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agentem · 5 years

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Endgame Thoughts: Time Travel, Branch Realities, Souls and Infinity Stones

I do not understand the time travel in this movie at all. Granted, it’s tricky in every time travel movie I’ve seen. But (SPOILER CHOP)!

But the movie itself does not seem to have consistent logic. Like Bruce and Tony are convinced that changing the past won’t change the future. (The “Back to the Future” is a lie scene--which, it’s not so fuck you. That movie thought it out way more.)

Then Bruce goes to the Ancient One (clearly Tilda Swinton and Mark Ruffalo are friends), and she she says it doesn’t create new timelines, it creates “branch realities” which I guess are now just Doctor Strange’s problem?

Steve is sent back with Mjolnir, the stones, etc to “clip all the branches” but he fucking doesn’t. He creates more branch realities by starting one where he is with Peggy.

-- There’s one where Loki is out there with the Tesseract, I think

-- One where Thanos never Snapped at all since he’s dead in 2014 (I want to go to there)

-- I think all the stones were put back. But we have no confirmation of that which is a bit troubling.

-- I am not even sure what else. My brain kind of hurts already.

And maybe this is too religious or whatever but what about their souls. I am here referencing a soul as some kind of central aspect of a person that is NOT their physical body and isn’t altered by time travel mess.

Isn’t Gamora’s soul, whether or not they now have a younger version with the Guardians, still trapped in the Soul stone? Isn’t Nat’s?

Bruce says he tried to bring Nat back but he couldn’t, like it was some kind of thing that can’t be undone. If that is true, then Gamora--no matter what happens to this version of her in life--is cursed to end up in Soul World. And we shouldn’t really worry about her at all because of like pre-destination or whatever.

I found the dichotomy of how Gamora’s soul is treated (yay! we got her back) to how Natasha’s is treated to be annoying. Like is it undoable or is it not? Is there a Branch Reality where Gamora is never sent to the soul stone and her soul is still free?

IF so why can’t Natasha be saved?

These two things are in direct opposition to each other. And I certainly hope James Gunn will address them in GotG 3. But it seems lazy to be like “oh those branch realities? Don’t worry about ‘em!” Gamora’s soul! Fine, we got a younger version so it’s basically like she never died. But also what happened to her can never be undone.

My brain hurts. I don’t like it.

The way I read it is that an essence of Gamora and Natasha are in Soul World (the reality inside the Soul Stone). And they had the Soul Stone and no one even, like, tried to use it or figure it out on its own after the fight. PS what was Steve’s reaction to seeing Red Skull again if he returned it?

I had actually been expecting the stones to be given to various characters. Maybe that is stupid. Strange obviously gets the Time Stone, and they would rebuild Vision with the Mind Stone (no mention of Vision really), I thought Wanda would get the Reality Stone because it is red and it manipulates reality like Wanda can in the comics... Maybe give Carol the Space stone so she can show up faster. Try to rebuild Nova with the Power stone? IDK.

And I thought Nebula (with the orange on her face meaning something more than a simple visual cue that this is the older one) would have the Soul Stone because she was still trying to save her sister.

But then put them back (except they didn’t, really see above) so the stones are destroyed in the main MCU reality, which means part of Vision can be rebuilt but not all of him. Part of Gamora can maybe exist. And Nat is dead forever?

Nobody tried to do anything to restore these three except Bruce for five seconds? And we’re supposed to take his word that it’s undoable when he also couldn’t do what Tony and/or Thanos did?

I know it’s “just a movie” but at this point I am having trouble buying into it. Or feeling like the creators know what they are doing.

#endgame spoilers #endgame questions #spoilers #infinity stones #the soul stone is a little asshole #gamora #natasha romanoff #the vision #wanda maximoff #nebula #the ancient one #tilda swinton #avengers spoilers

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jcashe · 5 years

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ENDGAME SPOILERS SO DON’T READ BEYOND THIS POINT UNLESS YOU’VE SEEN IT.

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MULTIPLE AVENGERS TIMELINE/ TIME TRAVEL

Guys, I know many of you hate the ending but the MCU now has 3 confirmed different timelines & many unconfirmed ones. So, technically your fav characters still got a happy ending in some way. Both Bruce, Nebula, & the Ancient One explains that MCU time travel doesn’t work like other movies timeline. It’s not butterfly effect time travel. It’s why they couldn’t go back to Thanos as a baby & kill him. Because now there’s an MAIN timeline where everyone in the snap is still dead & a timeline where Thanos dies as a baby. That’s why it may not be the ending you wanted but different timelines could help with the pain of certain deaths.

Bruce never said once you return the Stone it would reverse all the timelines because that’s not how things work. Plus, with an example ( past Gamora, Thanos, & Nebula) there has to be different timelines. All Bruce & the Ancient One said was that if the stones aren’t returned to the exact moments the Avengers took it from that their MAIN timeline would be fucked up. Then there would be fucked up branches of other timelines that were affected by the fact that the main timeline is fucked.

CONFIRMED TIMELINES

2014/Battle of New York Timeline. It’s the timeline where past Gamora, Thanos, & Nebula go into the future. So, this means that in this timeline Thanos is never a threat. Since he died in the MAIN timeline along with MAIN timeline’s Thanos five years prior. This timeline also doesn’t have the Guardians the Galaxy. Thanos isn’t a threat so the entire GOTG never happened. Gamora isn’t there. They vanished. So, hypothetically Yondu could have found Quill. Peter never would have been known as the guy who held an Infinity Stone in his hand. So, Ego maybe wouldn’t have found him or could have. Lastly, this timeline Tony & Natasha are alive since they never died because of Thanos. This timeline Loki is alive & would have had the Tesseract. Also, because of the effects this timeline Steve would know Bucky is alive in 2014 vs. years later which allows Steve to find him then. Also, since Hydra now thinks Steve is apart of their group they’ll slip up. So, Steve could take down Hydra way earlier. This would also be the timeline where Thor & the Asgard citizens would’ve safely made it to Earth w/o Thanos stopping them. Who knows but it’s interesting to think about. Also, sadly this timeline Morgan Stark couldn’t have existed but Tony would have a different child maybe a son or another daughter. It’s the reason Tony didn’t want to change the MAIN timeline & the last 5 Years bc it would affect them.

Steve’s timeline. He returned all the stones & then used the Quantum Realm to go back to the 40s. So, there is a separate Steve timeline where he gets his happy ending. Steve is not Peggy’s MAIN timeline Husband. It has to be a separate timeline because Sharon knows Steve in the MAIN timeline. In this timeline he was back so Steve could’ve stop SHIELD from waking him up from the ice or even searching for the ship at all. In this timeline he could’ve went to find Bucky & saved him years later. It was obvious Steve told Bucky ahead of time that’s why he didn’t return back to the 40s with Steve. Bucky knew that Steve was still his best friend & a good man because he would go back and save a different Bucky from a different timeline. This means that this timeline could’ve never had Iron Man, War Machine since the creation of Iron Man would’ve been halted by the fact that the Starks were still alive. However, the Starks could also still be dead since they could’ve gotten another assassin besides Bucky to kill the Starks. It could go either way. Who knows what Steve changed or if he changed anything that major. This entire timeline could be different. But he knows the technology & somehow made his way back. He could’ve told young Hank Pym.He already said his goodbye before with MAIN timeline Bucky (although it was never shown) & possibly got to be best friends for decades with other different Bucky. It’s why Steve didn’t tell Sam who it was that he married. Sam could probably guess but it’s not like Steve could tell him what all happened. It’s not confirmed that Peggy is dead in his timeline or maybe she is. Who knows. But we do know that Steve travelled back into the MAIN timeline to give Sam the shield & say his goodbye. Reason he didn’t say anything before is because Bruce might not have let him go back. Then when Steve is ready he will go back to his own timeline.

Main Timeline (Phase 4 MCU Timeline)-It’s the timeline we are currently in. Sadly, Tony Stark is dead in this one, Thor joins the Guardians, Natasha is dead. Everyone from the snap is back. 2014 Gamora is somewhere in the galaxy. Since Steve got all the stones back at the right moments & not late it doesn’t affect their timeline whatsoever.

POSSIBLE TIMELINES

Thor Dark World timeline- Since Rocket took the Stone out of Jane & Thor pretty much warned his Mom about her death. There could be a timeline where Jane doesn’t have the stone anymore, Thor’s mom is alive, etc. However, there’s not a lot of evidence so it’s only a possibility. There could be a whole timeline where things change from there. Especially, since Thor’s mom would have to know everything that has happened since her death in MAIN timeline. That means the elves would come but there isn’t a Stone in Jane (similar to how there is timeline where Loki stole the Tesseract & affected that timeline). So, there’s a possible chance that a timeline where they know Hela is coming & is more prepared. Who knows. Time travel is complicated. In this timeline Thor wouldn’t have his Hammer. Steve returned Thor’s Hammer for their MAIN timeline not the new one.

X-Men/Fantastic Four Timeline- These could be the same or 2 different timelines. But, I doubt this is the last of the MCU going into the Quantum Realm Hank Pym would probably want to mess around with the time travel aspect a bit more just to see. So, they could make different timelines by accident or just by exploring. I can see Scott messing around while time traveling & creating different timelines. Timelines that could include the X-Men & Fantastic Four. They could be sitting in a different timelines & somehow make it into the MAIN timeline. It’s the simplest way to explain why none of the F4 or X-Men were in our MCU before. Who knows if their timeline is Steve’s, the 2014, or any other timeline.

Black Widow Timeline- If the Black Widow movie isn’t a prequel than the Natasha still alive timeline could be from either Steve’s changed timeline or 2014’s changed timeline. I understand if they don’t do that since time travel is confusing & it could be hard for people to understand that the Black Widow movie Natasha isn’t the MAIN timeline Natasha that died. I think this movie is most likely just a prequel from the MAIN timeline. But it’s possible.

Scarlet Witch/Vision Timeline- Same thing as the Black Widow movie, because there will be a Disney+ TV series with them it could be from another timeline. So, this Scarlet Witch & Vision could be from Steve’s timeline, 2014’s changed timeline, or another all together. I could see this since it’s a show & you could go into depth with the timelines more. Since it would be weird if it was a prequel but again it’s only a possibility.

Loki’s Timeline- This could be the changed 2014 timeline where Loki escapes. Since he has his own TV show it could happen vs. a prequel.

What If Timeline-Since there is a Disney+ TV show coming out about What If different scenarios happened in the MCU. All of these could be different timelines as well.

I think knowing that Bucky probably gave Steve his blessing to leave the MAIN timeline & make his own says a lot. It’s not guaranteed what Steve changed or if he changed anything. But, no one should go after Steve about being ‘selfish’ or leaving Bucky since it doesn’t affect the MCU’s timeline going forward & doesn’t change the MCU’s past anyone’s. Even if Steve saved Bucky it wouldn’t change the MAIN Bucky but only make a different timeline. People shouldn’t get angry with Steve then since there is no way around it. He didn’t mess up the MAIN timeline so no he didn’t steal Peggy from her husband and junk like that. Agent Carter Series Peggy is MAIN timeline Peggy not Steve’s timeline Peggy that’s a completely different woman. We don’t know how much he changed. Also, if you feel bad about the deaths of Tony & Natasha at least know that in the changed 2014 they are alive & happy. Yes, I know that it sucks that in our MAIN timeline our beloved characters are gone. But, to me it gives me more ease to know that out in different MCU timelines the Avengers are happy & together again without Thanos to bother them.

#avengers endgame spoilers #endgame spoilers #spoilers

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