#syscourse tw

[thestrawberrypack]

There definitely like Are systems who thought they were endogenic but realized they were traumagenic but the anti-endo rhetoric of "even if you think you're not traumatized you must actually be secretly traumatized and just repressed it otherwise you're an ableist and a faker and an attention seeker" is uh, Profoundly Fucked Up, Actually

Going up to strangers who say they experience multiple people living in their head and saying "actually you must have some horrific mind-shattering trauma you don't remember" is, well, I just don't think it's very good for them, best case scenario is they're truly endogenic and know better than to believe some random asshole online, worst case scenario is they go digging and unearth trauma they were not ready to process and have a mental health crisis, all just so randos online can deem them "uwu valid"

#plurality #multiplicity #system #syscourse tw #endo safe #pro endo

[moved-to-darkplanets]

Quite unfriendly reminder that alterhuman as a label is supposed to include everyone that feels like it fits them, endogenic plurals included. The creator of the damn label itself said as much. Go get your gatekeeping jollies on somewhere else 😑

#Alterhuman #Syscourse tw #Otherkin #Therian #crosstagging for visibility #Fuck anti-endos #Block me if you are one

[tommyssupercoolblog]

okay so let me check my notes umm... according to fakclaimers:

systems can only be kids because it only develops then, but also can only be adults over 20 or so because otherwise you're making it up for tiktok OR wouldn't possibly know yet, and you have to be diagnosed with DID/OSDD but you also have to be truamagenic or the diagnosis doesn't count even if it comes from a doctor, and if you're truamagenic but self diagnosed then you're lying or confused. if you're truamagenic AND diagnosed then you're a freak and dangerous to the public OR you have to live in secret or else you must be lying. you can't be plural on purpose through thoguhtform because then you're making yourself disabled and that's fetishizing but you also can't be plural against your will UNLESS you met the previous critera otherwise that wouldn't happen to you. and you can't call yourself a t-pla ever even though the controvery is around cultural appropriation and a stranger has no clue over the internet if you have the right to reclaim, which you VERY WELL MIGHT. but if you call yourself a thoughform you're cringe and too woke. if you're endogenic you can't call yourself a system but you also can't call yourself plural or a collective or anything else. If you're mixed-orgin you're just a confused truamagenic or a lying endogenic.

You also can't have introjects because that's cringe and cringe means you're lying but you also can't have original alters because then you're just roleplaying as OCs. as an introject you can't hate your source or be neutral because then why would you introject?? but you can't love them or else you're just a crazy fan pretending to be them. as an original alter you can't be TOO different from the original or that's just something out of a movie but you can't be alike because then you're not really an alter.

You can't have only nice alters who get along together because then you're faking and if you have alter conflict then you need to be locked up because you're probably a serial killer. and you have to only have split when you were little and can't split ever again even though that's something that happens all the time even past people's 20s, and you can't have any other disorder or you're just wrong about being plural, and you can't hate being plural because then you're attention seeking and clearly must be pretending to have a disorder for pity, and you can't love being plural because you're not allowed to love having a disorder or disability, and you can't be neutral about it because why the fuck wouldn't you have a big reaction to being so weird?? you're weird. so you must be lying about being weird because everyone else finds this shocking and disturbing or fascinating and surely so would you.

and you can't not date because then you're missing out (even if ur aro, ace, or aroace mostly) and you can't date because then you're abusing your partner and lying to them by being multiple people since you're clearly just one OR you're making them date strangers which is also bad, and you can't date another system because you can't know other systems personally or else you're all fakers, and you can't date in-headspace because that's too weird to be true. you can't all be striaght because that's unrealistic so you're faking but if your alters all have different sexualities that's a sure sign you're faking and just making up OCs and if you're all gay then you're ALSO faking and just trying to be Jefferson Miku Binder Woke and are a cringe SJW. You can't all be the same gender but you can't be different genders either and you can't have individual labels but if you id as genderfluid or pluralgender or something collective that's cringe and clearly a sign you're just a dumb lying teenager begging for attention.

you can't have a consistent host but also you can't have anyone other than the "original" front for too long. you can't be able to control switches but you also need to be able to "prove it" by switching in front of other people. you can't have different mannerisms or handwriting because that's overdone and dramatic and clearly just theatre and you can't have the same mannerisms or handwriting becase then you're clearly just lying. You can't think of yourself as one person because that's confusing, but you can't think of yourself as multiple people, because you share a body so CLEARLY you must be one singular person!!!!! If you use i/me pronouns you're faking and just forgetting to act plural as a plothole in ur lies and if you use we/us you're also faking and clearly only know about systems through tiktok. if you go by your infividual names you're being confusing and a hasstle and a bitch, but if you use a collective name or go by the og/host's name you're lying and a catfish abuser. if you get final fusion you're not plural anymore and don't get to talk about it. if you don't get final fusion you're a faker.

you can't literally be seperate because that makes no sense, you can't have more than one consciousness in one mind!! but you can't just be one person separated by memory walls with the EFFECT being "as if" you were actually seperate because then you're not really plural.

you can't act or dress normal because "we'd be able to tell" but you can't be visibly weird or plural because then you're fake, cringe, or both. you can't roleplay or cosplay because that means your plurality is cosplay too, but you can't avoid roleplaying and cosplaying because then you're crazy for identifying as another person than the og but not being able to dress up as a different person (and/or your source if ur an introject).

did i get it all?? no, probably, because there's way more rules and contradictions than even these, huh?? there's an infinite list of rules and ideas but really they're all just set dressing. all the conflicts just end up resulting in one, big rule. but they don't say the big rule because a long list like that, if it's spread out and not put in one post like this, doesn't look as mean. so it's easier to swallow it one bit at a time, to rule out one way of life after another, then to say it outright.

when every possible way to be is ruled out, you get the real rule, which is:

"If you're plural or a system, you can't exist."

there is no acceptable way to be plural. the only "correct" way to be plural is to be erased entirely.

#i made a textpost #vent #vent cw #vent tw #tw vent #cw vent #endo safe #syscourse #syscourse cw #syscourse tw #cw syscourse #tw syscourse #ableism #cw ableism #tw ableism #ableism tw #ableism cw #anyway. plural solidarity is important and if you tell me you're plural i'll believe you. no matter how different we are.

[system-of-a-feather]

Okay @indigochromatic was joking with me about it cause I was talking about this post with them since I went "lol not about syscourse but totally true about syscourse" (screenshotting rather than reblogging casue the original post is not about syscourse and I don't want to curse OP with it)

But one of the largest reasons syscourse is dumb and I groan in confusion anytime either says "the other side denys facts and science" is cause yall are always treating academics like there is the Holy Truth to these sorts of answers and that if you find the most educated professor / researcher on the topic, that you will find The Fact and Truth According to Science about DID / plurality / syscourse

When in reality, most psychologist and researchers are literally five seconds away from strangling eachother over questions like "do we really have a consciousness / identity or does it just SEEM like we have a consciousness / identity" and "do we actually forget things or do we just think we forget things because we can't find them"

If they're over here trying to gnaw eachothers faces off over the debate if identity is real or if / how we forget things, do you guys REALLY think there is a "one holy truth" about DID / plurality out there in any significant way that yall can really be calling one another "unscientific" for taking a different perspective

And if you don't believe me, I invite yall to enjoy the rabbithole of researching modern research into consciousness / identity and forgetting / memory. It's genuinely a really fun rabbithole to get down and honestly a much more enjoyable one to discuss than "whether or not endogenics are real or not"

#alter: fei #alter: riku #i got mildly challenged by a friend #and by mildly challenged I mean they said once that I “should say it X'D” and I went “ok” #you see I needed a lot of convincing for this post #syscourse #syscourse tw

[eldritch-emojis]

endogenic is extremely harmful to the OSDDID community. Please stop saying that it’s fine to identify as. No nontraumagenic ‘system’ exists. OSDDID is a TRAUMA based disorder.

first hate anon. i wont always answer these, they are always useless to.

yes DIDOSDD is a trauma disorder. non traumagenic systems are not (inherently) DIDOSDD systems. they are different things. <3!

#inbox #syscourse tw #hate anon

[hazedxhealing]

I do not care. Endogenic systems aren't real systems. They are taking our real, debilitating experiences, and using them for pitty and internet points.

I have been told to kill myself

I have been told I'm lucky to have trauma

I've been told I am lucky to be so fucked up

I've been told I'm lucky to have such severe PTSD

All from endogenics.

I will not consider them real systems until I am given a legitimate, scientific study, proving me wrong.

That is my opinion. If that makes you mad, block me.

My disorder will not be used to gain sympathy.

#tw suibaiting #tw sui implied #syscourse tw #tw endos #actually did #did #did system #actually traumagenic #did community #syscourse #traumagenic #traumagenic system #actually dissociative #anti endo #endos dni #fuck endos #anti endogenic

[oopsallfictives]

I feel like sysmedicalism gets boiled down to just being anti-endo, and that's not really even the core of their beliefs. That's definitely a big part of it, but it's more of a side effect of their core beliefs. Those beliefs are:

Plurality only exists in the context of DID and similar disorders

Those disorders only ever happen as the result of trauma

Both the above points have been scientifically proven

Psychiatrists who study/treat DID, as well as the ISSTD, are more trustworthy than anyone claiming their personal experiences fall outside of what they believe "real DID" looks like

The only one of those that even might be true is the second, but I have no idea if it is or not, and it would be irresponsible to make the claim that it is without proof (correlation isn't proof, that's literally the first lesson in statistics). But what I want to focus on is the last point, because I think it explains everything else

People with DID/OSDD/etc have pretty much always been fighting an uphill battle against the general public's disbelief. This worsened significantly in the 90s. DID (then called MPD) got swept up into the Satanic Panic, and when aspects of that were disproven, everything else that got lumped in with it was assumed to be equally false. On top of that, there was a high-profile lawsuit against Bennett Braun (psychiatrist and founding member of the ISSTD) that alleged some pretty horrific abuse against a woman who claimed she was misdiagnosed and never had MPD/DID in the first place

This split the discourse. Some people condemned Braun and his associates for their treatment of their patients, and claimed that MPD/DID was made up. This is why the name was changed to DID, btw. The chair of the DSM-IV task force didn't believe it was real. On the other side of things, there were people who believed it was real, and therefore assumed everything being said about Braun and others was made up. There were some people, like those who were abused as "treatment" for MPD/DID, who believed that both plurality and the abuse were real, but they were largely ignored or silenced

Nowadays the issue is mostly simplified into "is DID real or not?". However, the idea that criticizing the ISSTD/psychiatrists who treat DID is the same as siding with the people who don't believe in it lingers. For many people newly diagnosed or discovering the online community and their place in it for the first time, these clinicians seem to be the only ones who believe their experiences are real. On top of that, there's a societal belief that being a doctor gives someone the authority to speak on medical issues in a way that being a patient doesn't. This goes doubly for anything mental health related. So these systems latch onto the ISSTD/psychiatrists and uncritically buy into everything they say (or what a game of twitter discourse telephone claims they say), even if it doesn't make sense, or if the proof just isn't there

So when they lash out at endogenic systems, or systems who claim to be people instead of parts, or any system that doesn't fit their idea of "real DID', it's because they see us as threats to their legitimacy. They think we can only be taken seriously if we go along with what the ISSTD claims. But this community has decades worth of very real reasons not to trust the psychiatrists making those claims

If you're a system whose beliefs align with the bullet points above, and you're starting to doubt the ISSTD (or even just some individual psychiatrists) because of the McLean video, take some time to look a little deeper. Look up what Bennett Braun got sued for malpractice for at least 11 times over (but be prepared, it will be triggering, it's some fucked up shit). Look up other prominent psychiatrists in this area, see how many of them have had accusations of abuse leveled against them. Try this video on Onno van der Hart, the primary contributer to the ToSD as it applies to DID (TW psychiatric abuse). And if you're starting to realize that perhaps they can't be trusted to be correct about everything, maybe it's time to consider what else they've said that's wrong

-Oliver (he/him)

P.S. If you're a dick on this post you'll be blocked on sight

#the quicksilvers say #syscourse tw #plurality #no seriously we wont debate you on this just leave us alone #but if you have genuine good faith questions thats fine

[actuallyverynormalbtw]

tbh if a traumagenic system puts "endo's dni" on a post that "has nothing to do with trauma" thats actually perfectly fair and okay.

disabled people are ALLOWED to exclusively talk about their disability with those who share the same disability. it is so blatantly ableist to imply that disabled people are being "mean/petulant/sensitive/uptight/unreasonable/etc" or to accuse them of being "fascist" (??!??!?) for not including you in conversations about their disability.

traumagenic systems are disabled by their trauma. you cannot ask us to seperate trauma and disability from systemhood. i cannot seperate the primary symptom of my disorder from the disorder itself. and, personally, i dont really care if that feels invalidating to your identity.

to traumagenic systems: you never ever have to feel guilty for wanting your own space and advocating to have one. you deserve absolutely whatever you need to help you cope with this disorder and your recovery.

to endogenic plurals: i respect your identity and your experiece, however, it truly has nothing to do with me. no matter how similar you think our experiences are, you fundamentally are unable to understand traumagenic experiences. it is truly not too much for us to ask you to respect this boundary. i dont care if traumagenic systems have been rude to you or disrespected your dni list or whatever else, being disrespected is not a justification to do so to another. it is ridiculous that i have to explain this.

#traumagenic system #osddid #syscourse tw #tw syscourse #syscourse #sysconversation #endogenic #endo neutral #anti endo #pro endo #plural community #did system

[multiplicity-positivity]

🌙 Good evening endogenic systems!

☁️ Good evening systems who formed without trauma!

🌙 Good evening to systems with xeno origins!

☁️ Good evening to systems who don’t align with what society expects plurality to be!

🌙 Good evening to systems who are nontraumagenic, but were traumatized by other systems fakeclaiming, harassing, or otherwise invalidating their experiences!

☁️ Good evening to systems who were originally endogenic but became mixed origins later in life!

🌙 Good evening to systems who don’t fit neatly into any definition of multiplicity!

☁️ Good evening to systems who used to be anti-endo but have changed for the better!

🌙 Good evening to systems who used to be sysmeds but are no longer involved in syscourse or are pro endo!

☁️ Good evening to systems who support and uplift each other, regardless of origins!

🌙 Good evening to systems who don’t use labels for their origins!

☁️ Good evening to all systems struggling to fit into the plural community! We promise you are loved, cherished, and a welcome member in plural spaces. We love you and we’re rooting for you, even if we can’t personally identify with your experiences. We see y’all and we wish y’all the very best!

(Image ID:) A pale orange userbox with a cluster of multicolored flowers for the userbox image. The border and text are both dark orange, and the text reads “all plurals can interact with this post!” (End ID)

#multiplicity #pluralgang #plurality #system positivity #plural positivity #actuallyplural #plural pride #system pride #actually plural #anti endo tw #syscourse tw #endogenic #endogenic positivity #pro endo #endo safe

[kpopwerewolf]

TW Syscourse Vent Post

Just saw a tag that said “endos aren’t real.” Um? So I’m a ghost? A figment of my own imagination? I’m fine if someone wants to (quietly/privately) think I have traumagenic origins I just haven’t recognized yet (in part because we haven’t ruled it out), but I am tired of being told I don’t exist, that my headmates don’t exist.

We decided to assume endogenic origins because we don’t really know how or why we formed, and until we feel ready to explore our trauma and see if it’s connected to our plurality, we don’t want to use the term traumagenic as it may not apply to us. Why does that automatically mean we don’t exist?

We already know we don’t have a dissociative disorder based on DSM criteria, but we’re still plural. Systems without dissociation are possible! We exist! The only type of disordered plurality we might have is if we have Schizotypal Personality Disorder, which I’m pretty sure we do.

But I still exist. I’m real. I’m alive, breathing. All of us are. Meaning both my headmates and the wider plural community at large.

It’s exhausting trying to learn more about plurality only to be met with vicious hostility and declarations of how I don’t exist.

Can we please stop deciding that certain plural experiences are inherently wrong just because they aren’t like the ones we experience ourselves?

#sorry for the rant #had to express it somehow #plural system #actually plural #plurality #plural community #pluralgang #system stuff #sysblr #syscourse #syscource warning #tw syscourse #cw syscourse #syscourse tw #syscourse cw #endogenic #endogenic system #endogenic safe #endogenic friendly #pro endo #pro all systems

[little-guy--made--of--clay]

definitely already said but being anti endo and complaining about people fakeclaiming you is crazy. me when the lepord eating peoples faces party eats my face

and, for clarity, these people shouldnt be fakeclaimed. i dont agree with that. it sucks to get fakeclaimed. i think all plural folks should be accepted as multiple. but this includes endos!!

in short i love you if youre plural no matter what you deserve rights i love you!!!!!!

#slash platonic or something #cw syscourse #syscourse tw #tw syscourse #syscourse cw #syscord #sysblr #syscourse #traumagenic system #endogenic system #endogenic #endogenous #endo system #traumagen system #did system #plural system #Ethan 🍁

[moved-to-darkplanets]

And like, the thing is, even if you completely bully endos and created headmates into using no terminology whatsoever for thier experiences, it's an experience people are still going to have whether you want them to or not. Brains are powerful things for both the better and the worse, and no amount of dickriding the DSM and ableist psychiatrists is going to change that.

#Syscourse tw #Vent #Tulpa safe #Endo safe #The level of contempt I feel for anti-endos and their certainty that they know you better than you know yourself is truly immense

[partypacking]

Been watching a lot of Red vs Blue lately, which means our Red vs Blue alters are coming back around, which means we agreed it'd be funny to talk about this in the style of a Red vs Blue PSA. Thank you Church, Grif, Tucker, and Doc for being my strawmen.

Effects used: ExcellentShadow, ExcellentSSAO, ikBokeh.

Models used: Cookie ripped and converted from The Sims 4 to MMD by us. Church, Grif, Tucker, and Doc ripped and converted to MMD by DesertDraggon. Stage by NOB.

Poses used: lite and Floramy.

#3dpng #3dcomic #positivelyplural #pluralgang #plural things #plural pride #multiple system #multiplicity #pro endo #endogenic safe #all systems welcome #all systems are valid #system things #system community #cookie.txt #txt #invalidation tw #fakeclaiming tw #syscourse tw #long post

[system-of-a-feather]

I’ll bite… why do you feel like endos are real? As they do claim to have a trauma disorder just without the trauma which to me seems pretty ableist or at least disrespectful to DID/OSDD systems.

(LONG POST WARNING)

Well to start, most aren't claiming to have a trauma disorder / DID / OSDD but rather that they experience themselves as more than one and I don't believe that DID / OSDD holds sole ownership to the ability to experience oneself as more than one. A lot of endogenic people knew about their experiences as more than one before really even knowing DID / OSDD existed (or at least past the stigma of "Multiple Personality Disorder" that has no implications to trauma because ya know). I think the term "endogenic" has implications that do a disservice to the group as it kind of implicates innately the idea that trauma is the only inherent way to exist and experience oneself as more than one, when honestly I firmly believe that is not the case.

As to why I firmly believe that it is not the case that trauma and DID/OSDD is not the only way to experience oneself as more than one, there are a number of perspectives I can offer.

From a discussion of the theory of structural dissociation (ToSD) / academic stand point...

the ToSD is not a "Theory" like Gravity and Evolution. The name is actually misleading as it is using Theory in a more colloquial sense; the ToSD when talked about in almost all literature that I've read that references it talks about it as a >model<. The difference between a theory and a model is large.

A theory is something that is constantly and reliably able to be a solid means of not only understanding the world but also predicting large phenomenon. There have been multiple active attempts to disprove it or find flaws in it and none of which have worked. They're age old and have been proven day in and day out to have reliably accounted for every form of discrepancy - at least on a majorly applicable level (as even Gravity seems to have its confusing mishaps when you get to the very high level stuff that I won't even pretend to understand in the slightest as I'm not a physicist).

A model on the other hand is something that is used to best understand, navigate, and conceptualize a concept - often for more practical usage. A model is designed to usually specifically target a specific definition of a phenomenon and experience - and in this case "the dissociation of self of individuals who have experienced trauma and how that causes the phenomenon of alters and dissociated parts". It is not making claims about "the only way for people to experience themselves as more than one" because 1) models don't really intend to be fool proof, they attempt to practically explain and describe an experience in a way that is helpful to apply practically (ie in theraputic practice); by this very nature, the models are suggesting a base framework that often apply and help people who match the specific definition of the phenomenon it is meant to address (ie clients that have gone through trauma and likely have dissociated parts) and 2) the theory is addressing individuals who experience themselves as more than one due to a history of trauma and how that trauma then results in the brain dissociating from itself for survival. It is NOT addressing "all of humanity and human experiences and psychological experiences" - it is just discussing how trauma affects the brain to develop alters. The two discussions and topics are very different and in an academic setting have EXTREMELY different requirements.

Additionally, an issue with the ToSD is that while its a great model for people who have DID/OSDD, it's a laughable theory and hypothesis in most psychological fields that are a lot more into more solid and quantifiable measures. I've actually talked with one of the people that had done research that basically paved the way for children's testimonies of CSA to be taken seriously and accepted in court about the ToSD and they poorly withheld a laugh on the topic. Same said person had actually talked and known either Van Der Hart or Van Der Kolk (they didn't remember which one exactly) and all that. What I got from the conversation with them was that, yes the ToSD works beautifully as a clinical model and it helps a lot of clinicians understand and help people with DID/OSDD navigate their experiences, but the ToSD in a non-clinical academic setting makes SO many assumptions that are absolutely not backed by current more "harder" psychological research that its funny.

There is a LONG list of issues with the assumptions ToSD makes on an academic setting that make it a joke to those on a more non-clinical academic setting but here are a few:

What the FUCK is a "dissociative barrier"? Yes on a clinical sense we know what that is, but where is a "dissociative barrier" in terms of neurology and neurobiology? What functions in memory (both theoretical and physical) actually work to be a "dissociative barrier"? What mechanisms in the brain make it possible? What is a dissociative barrier in terms of developmental psychology and developmeental psychopathology? How is it that trauma manages to "make a dissociative barrier" in children? What concepts of developmental psychology and memory / identity development actually are in play to make this "dissociative barrier"?

Do people even have consciousness - or - more realistically asked, are people actually conscious or do we just feel as if we are conscious? (<- very hot topic in consciousness research in more neuroscience based fields) And assuming we DO have a consciousness, what and where is that located and how does consciousness work on a physiological level in a typically developing child as opposed to a person who experienced trauma? Assuming THAT is figured out, how do we know that that trauma is the only thing that could have caused the consciousness to develop atypically? Additionally, ask all those questions AGAIN for the concept and idea of "identity" as consciousness and identity are two different research topics. Assuming that we DO NOT have a consciousness, how does the false experience of consciousness work and why do we experience it like that? Following from that, why is it that trauma can disrupt and warp that false experience? Additionally, how does it disrupt and warp that false experience? And again, how do we know that trauma is the only thing that can cause that disruption / warping to occur?

My FAVORITE and most frustrating one, but how do we even know we ACTUALLY forget things and what is the mechanism for forgetting things? What IS forgetting? Do we loose neuronal pathways when we forget and is the information truly just gone? Do we just struggle to find the information and thus we fail to recall the information? Then again, all the obvious "okay then how does this mechanism of forgetting get disrupted and warped by trauma".

(added this while writing the third perspective but) How does the modern development and factor of internet usage affect dissociation and any of these mechanisms of developing identity, self, consciousness, memory, etc? How does this new factor impact other neurodivergencies and mental health conditions in regards to that?

None of those questions are well addressed to a standard of research that most non-clinical fields consider ANYWHERE near valid or qualified to make any level of generalizing statements.

I personally largely identify and intend to go into research for developmental psychology / psychopathology after I sort things out in my life some and I LOVE these questions. I have a lot of my own hypothesis as to how those questions are answered and my hypothesis on how those mechanisms are disrupted / develop in children who experience trauma have me almost 100% certain that there are other mechanisms to developing dissociated states of self.

Of course, I'm withholding that from this portion of the discussion because those hypothesises are not founded and again, just sitting in my head rent free until I get to actually research them myself. (Which I do entirely plan to do when I figure my life out more)

From a cultural / spiritual / philosophical standpoint...

The claim that everyone normally experiences themselves as "one" unless trauma occurs seems really honestly White / Western / Christian-centric to me and the idea that the only way to experience themselves as anything other than "the normal experience and development of one person" is to have horrible trauma just... really leaves a shitty taste in my mouth as a person of color.

A large number of non-white non-christian/catholoic centered cultures that have a large emphasis on "the singular soul and repentance" and all that shit have cultural norms and beliefs that already state that it is not weird at all to experience yourself as more than one. As in, there are cultures that ALREADY experience themselves as more than one that have been doing so for AGES before DID/OSDD and hell even MPD were even suggested; ages before the field of psychology was even born.

I personally have a large problem with the claim that people have to have trauma to experience themselves as more than one as it comes off as a very colonizer perspective to experiences that do not inherently have any harm in them (ie experiencing oneself as more than one). Experiencing oneself as more than one (or I guess technically less than one) is something that can be pretty central to a lot of non-white/western cultural experiences and are just an innate part of how they live and life. To state that the only way people can have their culture is to be traumatized (which is the indirect claim being made when the claim that the only way to experience oneself as more than one is through trauma) is just... really disgusting and white-colonizer brained.

Personally, as a Buddhist, I inherently don't subscribe to the idea that there even is a "me" and a "you". I inherently believe that the concept of "being one person" is a means of suffering that people benefit from unlearning as the concept of identity and self does little more than restrict our natural means of existing and thus causes large suffering. As a result, I don't see myself or anyone else as "more or less" than one because the concept, in my spiritual-philosophical-cultural perspective, is not real and anything reinforcing it is not really dpoing anyone huge favors. As a result, I think everyone is everything and everyone is parts of a whole of everything. I think we experience ourselves as one because that is part of the natural expression of our existence. I also think we experience ourselves as more than one because - sometimes - that is just a natural expression of our existence. I ALSO think we experience ourselves as more than one because sometimes that is a good way to understand our natural selves and learn from the parts we are otherwise more disconnected from. A part of Buddhist practice is the dismantling of this concept of self and moving your perception of self away from the way you experience life and the world.

At the place where I am in my practice, the very essence of syscourse is really kind of silly to me because it's like arguing about the color of the blue-black / white-gold dress. Talking and debating it and investigating the question can lead good insights into our experiences and how we approach them, but in the end of the day, the thing we are discussing is an illusion and the effects it has on us and why we see it that way and its not really something any more important or impactful or worth sweating over than a fun thought experiment.

From an advocate standpoint...

A large part of the people who are endogenic are people who are also neurodivergent and/or experiencing notable mental health issues - those of which are not fully 100% investigated into how they affect the development of large topics like self, memory, etc. AND are very diverse and complex experiences. I don't think we should be telling someone who thinks that their experiences of being more than one is tied to their neurodivergency or other mental health conditions that they are wrong and should experience themselves differently - especially since dissociation is honestly pretty prominent in the AuDHD branch of disorders and I personally think it is hard to conclusively say that some level of experiencing oneself as more than one is related to having AuDHD. (not saying that it is either, just that its such a large topic that needs more exploration before I'd feel confident saying that AuDHD doesn't cause some form of experiences that one might experience as being more than one).

I personally see very little purpose and value within infighting of mentally ill groups and clusters when almost every disorder needs more research - particularly in a lens that is not white-western centered and interested in a more sociological / cultural lens.

I find no threat in people experiencing themselves as more than one as someone who has DID / OSDD anymore than I feel threat at otherkin for experiencing themselves as a non-human as someone who acts, lives, and behaves like a bird because of trauma and because I was largely raised by birds (and arguably because I'm autistic but thats one of those things you can't 100% be sure I would have been like without trauma). The reason I am "basically a bird" is entirely due the circumstance of my trauma and how I was raised and that certainly sucks (though I do enjoy it and find it a beneficial part of my life), but that doesn't mean that I don't share some experiences with people that identify as a bird for fun, for cultural reasons, for spiritual reasons, or due to another neurodivergency

Just generally speaking...

I love to see people expressing themselves in unique ways and honestly specifically in ways that do not conform to "normal" society. I think its really cool and neat that people express themselves how they like and express themselves in ways that challenge pointless and/or unnecessary social rules and norms and I believe the norm of being a "consistent singular individual in society" and just general individualism is honestly just such an unnecessary social norm.

This isn't really one of my large points because I say this with a lot less of a firm and full chest cause I do draw a line with the transID stuff (no I will not be taking discourse on that) but like.. generally speaking, I really love to see the dismantling of the concept that people have to be a "consistent singular individual" around me. For a number of reasons - all three main ones off the top of my head being my views as a person with opinions on academic-research regarding the topic, as a POC Buddhist, and as someone who just would like to stand in solidarity to all mental-oddities - I think it is a really important and productive thing to see the social norm of individuality to be changed from a "norm" to one of my options.

I think a large issue people have with endogenics and what not is that they're "cringe" or "making people with DID/OSDD look like jokes" and while thats a valid feeling to have and people with DID/OSDD aren't "wrong" for feeling that way, I think its largely a miss directed feeling that follows the same flaws of almost any other "respectability politics" and advocates that push for assimilation rather than acceptance in society.

In this sense, I actually like to see endos as having a similar goal of making it so that people don't assume that being more than one is inherently a mental illness which BY THE WAY, as someone who is act final fusion / functional multiplicity / late stage DID recovery, is INCREDIBLY important to me as I am not inherently experiencing a severe mental illness when my severe mental illness is largely considered "in remission / remissed" just because I choose to still experience myself as more than one.

Plus, yeah, some of them are cringe (/affectionate) but I honestly think people need to be unapologetically cringier anyways for society to grow and get over a lot of its prejudices so like, yeah maybe that type of "cringe" isn't my cup of tea but its still an ally in my ideal cringification of society /hj (plus people with DID/OSDD can be cringe too and I clap for them as well)

As a whole, I think accepting endogenics as a valid experience to have is progress to a better more accepting, less white-western centric, happy world as well as one that actually is a safe place for people who are in late stage DID/OSDD recovery to feel free to experience their disorder in whatever way is natural, safest, and works best for them.

It's honestly hard to be pro-functional mulitiplicity and anti-endo on practical sense in my opinion as someone who is At That Place because functional multiplicity kind of requires you do detatch the experience of being more than one from the inherent disorder that caused it and once you kind of get to that point.... its just really hard to still see the anti-endo perspective as it becomes really apparent that there really are some benefits to NOT TRAUMA COPING of experiencing yourself as more than one.

But anyways, I've been writing for an hour and a half so I'll leave it there. I wish I had a better way to tie this up but... *shrugs*

#alter: fei #alter: riku #pro endo #pro-endo #endo safe #endo friendly #pro endogenic #endogenic #syscourse #discourse #syscourse tw #ask #asks #long post

[sysboxes]

*siri voice* SYSMED ALERT SYSMED ALWRt

gave u multiple options bc i couldn’t decide

[Text: *siri voice* SYSMED ALERT SYSMED ALWRt]

[text: SYSMED ALERT SYSMED ALWRt]

[text: SYSMED ALERT SYSMED ALERT]

Like/Reblog if you save or use!

#i had a lot of fun with this one ty anon <3 #userbox #system #did #osdd #did system #this system #this user #osdd1 #syscourse tw #sysmed #sysmed alert #anti endo #endos dni #mod morpho 🦋

[luminae-system]

(Danny, as almost always, speaking)

Venty ramble-ish post of the day under the cut as promised in the update (ended up a long post, sorry)

If anyone wants a quick summary, there is a tldr bolded and green at the bottom! Would love some advice if anyone is nice enough to share their experiences and stuff.

Tw: General negative thinking, obsessive/repetitive thinking, ocd-like tendencies, lots of self-doubt, system doubt/self denial, brief neglect(? Descriptions, brief abuse mention (tell us if we missed something else)

I've been thinking of System Origins (xyz-genic) lately. Something about messy thoughts and obsessive patterns and stuff, our psychiatrist calls it "cow chewing" or something like that (since January, our memory has been shit, sorry).

So. I'm afraid to label us as traumagenic because like, as I mentioned in the notes of a reblog this week, we never went through traditional abuse, we had food and education and shelter and all that good stuff.

Maybe mom was down in the dumps herself, and dad was always away on a buissness trip, not to mention mom having to deal with three kids at the same time... so we never really got enough love and attention. We were loved ofc, and I am grateful for all mom did for us.

But like... her best wasn't enough in many ways, that's why we're in therapy since like 11 and always go off the deep end whenever we try to go long periods without a session (monthly sessions seems to be the stretch/limit). And well, we have more diagnoses than fingers in one hand already, wonderful! So funny! Amazing! /sarcasm

So, anyways, back to the topic. We never really lacked anything, were never abused, and the emotional neglect wasn't thaaat bad and totally not on propose. So... was it enough to form a traumagenic CDD system? Are we really disordered?

I do have emotional amnesia in the rare times we've managed to get someone else to be the main fronter, and we do have some ptsd symptoms but like... we do have a separate ptsd diagnosis bc of my ex-bf (another story/post, bad bad guy) and the childhood ptsd-like symptoms are nowhere in the same level as when we first got the diagnosis of the other ptsd.

And looking at posible diagnosis, Partial DID (pdid) is so so so close to what we experience! That's like, us! Main frontstuck host with other headmates acting as 'advisors' and less fronting and more passive influence and co-conciousness (even if we are monoconcious, it's a bit weird, don't wanna think too hard about it)

But like... I didn't start having "multiple people in my head" until like I was 14. Or atleast being conscious of it I guess. That's way past the age threshold for identity consolidation and thus traumagenic system formation...

So are we "disordered enough" to qualify as a disordered/CDD system? Would we make a mockery of "real" disordered systems to self-diagnose that?

I've been thinking of sharing with our current psychologist. The last one dismissed my concerns and said I was being a hypochondriac (god, it's always that excuse! Even with our physical health, which, yes, another post/story).

I'm scared of being wrong. What if I really am just talking to myself and making a sorta tulpamancy thing on accident? Ofc nothing wrong with that, but it would change our system dynamics a lot.

On the flipside, if we really are a traumagenic system... now what? I doubt there are any specialized psychologists for systems in our town... so yeah. Not sure what we would do after a hypothetical informal/formal diagnosis by our psychologist and/or psychiatrist.

Gosh. This is... a lot. And I tried to be brief. Sorry, and if anyone did read it all, thank you so much for caring about us! (Or being curious I guess lol). I'd love some advice

So, tldr: No abuse, only some emotional neglect on accident. Is it trauma enough for traumagenic? We disordered enough for a diagnosis? What if yes? What if not?

-----------------------

Bonus info for anyone(s) who want to give us advice (thank you!!!!)

System of 3

One front-stuck host and two "advisors"

Daena is a sorta reformed persecutor and sorta trauma holder?

Aelius is our protector (he is taking a long nap/trip somewhere in the brain, miss him)

Danny (me) and Daena are two sides of the same coin, share a lot of traits and stuff even if personality is different, basically like a median system.

Aelius is fully separate from us gals

Dissociation has been very common since we were a very young kid, especially derealization, though depersonalization did happen a lot too. Therapy has helped a lot in terms of grounding

Not much in terms of Amnesia I think? Like, maybe I'm not aware of something, but we do remember our childhood well enough to tell anecdotes and funny stories

We do have emotional amnesia tho, mostly with taking care of the body and household chores (remembering something but like, I did not do that. The memory spawned by itself???)

Uhhh ask for more details if needed!!!

#-Danny #Danny✨️ #// #luminar rambles #pluralgang #tw syscourse #syscourse tw #<- ? (just in case) #luminae system #tw vent #tw spiral #tw spiraling #long post under the cut #pdid #partial did #questioning system #< ? i guess #tw neglect #tw abuse