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#silmarillion meta
spiritofwhitefire · 2 months
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I do think it’s strange that Maedhros of all people is a character that gets woobified so hard because the MOST compelling thing about him isn’t his heroism, it’s the fact that he was heroic and the BECAME A VILLAIN. I’m not even going to say became an anti hero because I don’t think that’s accurate, I mean he became a straight up villain. Destroying what was basically a refugee camp, attacking the army fighting against morgoth when half of his identity post thangorodrim was once based around fighting Morgoth. I’m not the first person to mention the irony of the fact that maedhros is the only person to ever escape Angband without being in thrall to Morgoth, and then years later his actions are absolutely aiding morgoths cause rather than the cause of the remaining Noldor.
And that is what sets this character apart. His downfall. Part of that downfall is his earlier heroism but what makes this character so well written in the first place is that the seeds of that downfall start early at Alqualonde. It’s tragic but it isn’t surprising.
I changing this character around so that somehow his later actions are excusable or against his will or that deep down he has actually been a hero this whole time is very strange because if that’s the case then how is he any different than fingon or turgon or thingol? In fact if that’s the case then he’s more boring than these characters because he’s not nearly as outwardly noble.
He becomes a villain and as the shadows of that villainy were apparent early on, the shadow of his heroism is still apparent later on as well and that’s the tragedy. He could have turned around at any point, he could have still saved himself. But he doesn’t and it’s horribly tragic and as a story, it’s absolutely brilliant character work.
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intensionsuspension · 10 months
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Apparently Celegorm and Finrod were the same character at one point earlier in Tolkien’s works and honestly it explains so much about the things I found odd/strange about Beren and Luthien/The Lay of Leithian in the broader context of the Silmarillion.
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I find the idea of this proto-Celegorm/Finrod being forced to choose between two simultaneous and contradictory oaths to be extremely compelling. In a way I’m kind of sad that Tolkien didn’t stick with it, but I also love both Celegorm and Finrod as characters independently and it’s hard to imagine the Silmarillion without Finrod proper. However this definitely explains where the werewolf throat removal idea came from.
I attached the article by Dawn Felagund from the Silmarillion Writer’s Guild below.
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viola-ophelia · 10 months
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happy father’s day LOL
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absynthe--minded · 11 months
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Hello! Can I respectfully request the promised lecture and Powerpoint about Fingon/Maedhros? I'll be honest here... I just do not see it, and I truly do want to understand. There are other relationships in the Legendarium that I really do think Tolkien deliberately and unequivocally coded as queer, and I've used all those same examples you list to back up my arguments. And I do see the parallels with Luthien and Beren (just as Sam/Frodo has parallels with that). But otherwise, I don't see a lot of queer coding. Which is not to say that I think it's a bad ship, just that I don't really see much in the text to support it or see much indication that it's what Tolkien intended. I would love to be convinced, though! I swear I'm not trying to bash Russingon or provoke anything. It seems like you have put a lot of thought and research into this, and I'm honestly curious, because this is a ship that has always puzzled me a bit.
First, thank you for asking! It’s always a pleasure to talk about my boys and my OTP to end all OTPs
I want to start what’s probably going to be a long series of self-reblogs by saying something that’s going to be important in the long haul: there is a difference between “I personally interpret this in a way that enhances the story, and it’s canonically compliant” and “I think and will seriously argue that Russingon is supported canonically by things that explicitly exist to point toward it being more than friendship”. The line can get kind of fuzzy, but it does exist, and the foundation of any good queer analysis is recognizing that.
So before I get into Sarah Waters, Mary Renault, and what the British legal system has to do with any of this, I’m going to make three lists.
Stuff That Probably Doesn’t Mean Anything, But That Is Fun To Examine From A Shipping Perspective:
Maedhros wears a copper circlet, Fingon wears gold in his braids
Maedhros abdicated the throne in favor of Fingon entering the line of succession
Maedhros stepped into a position of military authority after Fingon took the throne, working closely with him specifically to attack Angband after the Bragollach
Fingon is stated by Tolkien himself to have never married nor had biological children, and Maedhros never married nor had biological children either
Stuff That Is Ambiguous In Intent, But Is More Significant Than The Above:
Fingon clearly still cared enough about Maedhros that despite probably not knowing whether or not he burned the ships, he set out to rescue him alone in a display of loyalty to the rival royal line that put his priorities firmly in the “this nér whom I love” camp. It’s worth noting that Maedhros’s family are the reason that his sister-in-law is dead, the reason many of his own people froze to death, and the reason his brother is dead. Maedhros’s rescue, and forgiving him, is more important to Fingon than any of that. Why?
Morgoth’s battle plan for the Nirnaeth Arnoediad (as relayed in the Grey Annals in The War of the Jewels) involved forcing Maedhros and Fingon apart and trying to take both of them down simultaneously. Fingon was of course ultimately killed by Balrogs, and Maedhros avoided being killed by allies-turned-spies, but the goal was to keep them apart and incapacitate them both. Why?
Maedhros’s mental stability, willingness to exist in a society, passion for fighting Morgoth, and desire to curtail his brothers’ worst impulses all evaporate after Fingon’s death and Fingon’s death specifically. Why?
Maedhros and Fingon maintain a relationship with each other that is significantly more important to their actions than similar relationships between Finwëan cousins. Aredhel is never recorded as prioritizing Celegorm to the same extent, and Finrod only goes on a hunting trip with Maedhros and Maglor after things between their families are patched up. Why are they different from others in this way?
Stuff That Actually Matters In Analysis:
Fingon and Maedhros, Beren and Lúthien, and Frodo and Sam all share very nearly the same story at a crucial point. All three feature a situation where a rescuing party feared the one they loved was dead, discovered they were actually held prisoner by Sauron, went alone into peril, and used a song to find who they searched for successfully. Both Maedhros and Beren lost a hand in the course of their journey. Frodo lost a finger, and Sam cut the hand from the orc whipping him. All three pairs were rescued by at least one of the great eagles. Sam and Frodo have on-page declarations of love. Beren and Lúthien are the self-inserts of the author and his wife. This connection is not accidental; the author explicitly compares Frodo and Sam to Beren and Lúthien on the Quest for the Silmaril in the text of The Two Towers. If Maedhros and Fingon are being linked thematically with the central romantic relationship of the Legendarium, there is a reason why.
The Grey Annals tells us that Fingon rescued Maedhros “and their love was renewed”. That’s a direct quote from the text, not an exaggeration. This is more canonical proof of love than we get for some married couples (notably Fëanor and Nerdanel, who are never stated to love one another in the text).
Laws and Customs Among the Eldar explicitly states that half-first-cousins are allowed to marry without it being considered incestuous, so long as their parents aren’t close. That seems like an extremely odd standard, until you remember that there is an unusually close pair of half-first-cousins whose parents don’t get along.
(Obligatory note: the published Silmarillion does state that Idril and Maeglin are too close to marry. The published Silmarillion’s treatment of Maeglin is also almost certainly invented by Christopher Tolkien - Maeglin in the drafts written by JRRT himself is wildly different than how he appears when Chris writes him. Tolkien himself avoided making any such statements about cousin marriage and Turgon opposed Maeglin marrying Idril because he didn’t think it was a love marriage.)
The Grey Annals also discusses one of the histories of the green elfstone that Aragorn receives from Galadriel as a wedding gift - in this draft, it was made by Fëanor, and Maedhros gave it to Fingon. When Aragorn receives it, it’s been set in a brooch in the form of an eagle. Here we have another thing that passed between Maedhros and Fingon that is explicitly linked to romantic relationships between two characters echoing Beren and Lúthien. This is once again not accidental.
Fingon’s harp is almost certainly a reference to the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, which also heavily inspired Lúthien pleading for Beren in Mandos. Yet again, we have deliberate intent by the author to position this relationship in a light that reflects romance above all else. You could even go further and point out that there are parallels between Thingol’s hostility toward Beren and Fëanor’s distrust and hatred of the Nolofinwëans. Túrin and Beleg, who get to kiss on the page, are also echoes of Russingon - early bliss marred by a kinslaying, a hopeless quest alone armed with a bow, an injury that results from freeing the captive party.
The fact of the matter is that none of this is accidental. Tolkien was deliberate in his worldbuilding, his parallels, his setups and his plot choices. There is a reason that Fingon and Maedhros are linked to so much romance, a reason that they are positioned on equal footing with other more clearly queercoded ships, a reason that it’s their relationship that shapes the First Age. When you accept that none of it happened accidentally, that allows you to broaden your scope, and look at Tolkien’s inspirations, his life, his friendships, cultural influences, and why he might have been so cagey about his M/M ships when they aren’t just important but vital to the text. (After all, Sam and Frodo’s happy ending comes after Sam’s time in heteronormativity, and Túrin and Beleg fall apart in a similar fashion.)
It’s just - it’s not crazy or insane or Shipper Goggles to say “these relationships matter, and the stories actually don’t make sense without them”. That’s all.
(Next time, if you like, we’re going to talk about historical fiction, and there will be lesbians.)
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novemberthecatadmirer · 7 months
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Something I recently realized is there actually is a convincing explanation for Eol’s action at Gondolin without going for “well he’s just an evil sadistic rapist”
What we know is:
A good amount of Sindar elves in Nevrast came to love Turgon as their leader and proceeded to follow him to Gondolin
Here is the issue:
It’s very unlikely those Sindar elves who left for Gondolin would be allowed to tell their kin who left behind where they went.
From the rest of Sindar elves’ pov, their kin who lived in this Noldor prince’s realm just disappeared (Said Noldor prince’s brother was a famous kinslayer)
Thingol and his court must be notified of this mass disappearance of population.
They must tried to ask Fingolfin about it and Fingolfin would be like “well I don’t know where my son and daughter are either”
How much is the chance for Thingol-who-grounded-his-daughter-in-a-treehouse to believe that as an answer.
Likely over the years there were multiple speculations about what happened to the disappeared population.
When Eol married Aredhel, he must have asked her about the matter. (And Thingol would order him to. There was no chance for Thingol to not know his vassal & kinsman & best smith went crazy and married a Noldor princess.)
Aredhel would tell him those Sindar elves went willingly and were happy and well in Gondolin.
(I really think Eol believed it was okay to marry Aredhel because he believed she was different; she left her kinslaying family to travel alone after all.)
Then Aredhel and Maeglin left for Gondolin, and Eol went out to look for them; and out of everyone he could possibly meet he met Curufin
Who basically called him an ethnic slur
(You cannot convince me “dark elf” is a perfectly neutral word for Noldor to invent to call those who never seen the tree light. It’s so very hard to imagine Sindar elves who loved the star light and suffered from Morgoth to appreciate being associated with “dark”.)
When Eol really reached Gondolin, it was heavily suggested by the text that he would be dealt with in some way if he did not announce he was the husband of Aredhel. Which rather confirms Curufin’s words about facing death.
When he got taken into the city, he must find that the Sindar elves who disappeared really were living in Gondolin. (There was a line in the book about him silently observing the city.)
And immediately after he was offered the choice between staying and death.
Now this is really a perfect situation for misunderstanding:
How much is the chance for Eol to assume that Turgon forced all the Sindar elves in Nevrast to move to his city? Or WORSE, abducted and enslaved them to build this distinctive Noldor city?
Like, Eol was not allow to left even when he was vassal & kinsman of Thingol and husband of a Noldor princess. He was basically threatened with death to stay in the city.
How much is the chance for him to assume that all the other Sindar elves faced the same choice or worse, never a choice?
I do believe Turgon was a good king. He was the only one out there who won over loyalty of both Noldor and Sindar. Gondolin in Silmarillion (not the one in “Fall of Gondolin” where people called Meglin half orc) was a good city with a mixed ethnic population and some Sindar elves as lords.
He also condemned Feanorians and likely had complex feelings about his brother jumping into fight and starting murder for redhead bestie.
Out of all the Noldor princes he was likely the one who thoroughly abandoned the idea of building fair & glory kingdom. If there was any thought about that the idea was squished when Elenwe disappeared in icy water. Most of his time in Beleriand he was trying to protect and preserve, until he got overwhelmed by the sheer hopelessness of the situation.
If he and Thingol ever met post reembodiment they might even come to respect each other.
But during his meeting with Eol Turgon was doing absolutely nothing that was not escalating the situation
Which was sadly reasonable.
Turgon was being a Noldor king in front of a vassal of Thingol (who refuse to recognize his right to rule).
When accused of kinslaying and stealing land his reply was “but we Noldor protected you from Morgoth with our swords.” Yeah but the same swords killed Teleri and you all stole ships over dead bodies to come establish your kingdoms. The worse response out there. It’s like saying “yeah we killed your relatives and build kingdoms over your land but you’ll be dead anyway without our protection so suck it up.”
(I believe his real thought was “I regret ever coming and I hate my brother for being stupid and I would love to just stay in Tirion with my nice family.” But that’s not something he could say in this situation.)
Once those words were out there was no way for Eol to trust his words anymore. Out of political reason Turgon basically took the stand with the kinslayers he actually hated.
Actually it was reasonable for Eol to assume the worst. He might even assume even if he chose to stay, it would not only be a betrayal to Thingol and his heritage, but he would also be enthralled or even murdered anyway.
Then of course he would try to murder Maeglin. In his pov his son just decided to side with his maternal kinslayer family and serve the king who abducted and enslaved Sindar elves. How could he tolerate his son turning into murderer and slaver?
Of course he would stay silent about the poison and let Aredhel die. People did not stay in Gondolin willingly. She lied and covered for her evil brother.
Of course he would call Maeglin out for “forsaken your father and kin.” Because that was what he believed.
Of course he would curse Maeglin, because how could a half-Sindar be treated as a Noldor prince when the city abducted Sinder elves and forbid them to leave? It was not a curse; what he meant was Turgon would turn against Maeglin and executed him in the same way due to his Sindar blood.
Which was all very wrong. But I don’t think anyone could convince Eol that Turgon was not an evil colonist after the “stay or die” was out of the bag.
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thebitchkingofangmar · 2 months
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let's say, for the sake of it, that Fingon found himself in possession of a Silmaril. for all effects and purposes we will say that he can hold them without being harmed (we do not know, and it can be analysed on whether he could or couldn't but that's not the focus of this), perhaps because the moment he came in possession of it, he did not want it for himself. he wanted it for Maedhros.
no matter what anyone said, if he even would tell anyone about it. perhaps he anticipated what he'd be told. but their, yknow, ancient friendship, calls to him and he cannot help but love him: so he wants to see him rest. he wants him to see his mother, he wants him to be able to peacefully guard them by the place of death of his father, he wants him to be able see the unfair quest upon him imposed done the sooner than the later in their lifetime. maybe he thinks it'll be a sign of goodwill.
he means to keep it between them anyway. he has his opinions of the past, even if he's looking to the future, but not everyone thinks like him and he doesn't want this to be a symbol of anything but how much he cares for Maedhros, and the only one who needs to know that is Maedros himself, the rest is immaterial.
I want to know what would happen when he hands it to Maedhros and Maedhros is burnt by it. I want to know what happens when his secret is in the open and how everyone would react. I want to know if the burning of Maedhros would change the events that befell the sons of Fëanor but also how it would not, because many ways can lead to the same destination. I want to see what happens if Maedhros said he will not risk their brothers (whom he knows can be worse than him and were worse than him) being burnt, so Fingon could, perhaps, be a steward of it.
I want to see the rest of his brothers say it's unacceptable, I want to know who would be the first to say Maedhros is not the boss of them and they have not forgotten their oath (and Maedhros hasn't, he hasn't). I want to know if this would descend into the sons of Fëanor turning against each other and if Maedhros would raise his sword at Fingon, or between Fingon and his brothers.
I want to know if Maedhros would be the last man standing and still jump into a volcano because he cannot live with any of it. I want to know if all the roads lead still to the same destination.
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vahvah · 3 months
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Morgoth: a cruel psychopath who uses literally everyone around him to realize his fantasies of “my rightful power over the universe,” easily sacrifices his most loyal servants, and values literally no one but himself. Also, he is sexually anxious and loves to dominate/humiliate, but exclusively over the most beautiful women in the world.
Sauron: a cruel psychopath who uses literally everyone around him for the sake of “true order,” repeatedly betrayed everyone who trusted him, including his immediate superiors, fled the battlefield to save his own skin, and easily sacrificed those around him. Also, completely asexual, ignored even the most beautiful mortal woman in the setting.
Fandom: wow, shipping them would be such a great idea! Surely they deeply love each other, which is why Sauron was deeply convinced that Morgoth would never help him after disincarnation and did not return to Angband after the loss of Lúthien, and therefore was completely disappointed in him (along with the other Valar)!
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ettelenethelien · 5 months
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Dior is weird because he's a child of so great a mother and father... and he just is. Does no great deed. Rules as king for like 3 years at most and then dies tragically young. I've heard people say they find him perplexing for that reason and yeah. It's all so. normal. (if horrible).
The whole storyline between the two latter Kinslayings is strange when compared with the rest of the Silm. All that came earlier has such a symmetry to it. Patterns and archetypes; a tapestry with not a thread out of place - the fairytale of B&L and the tragedy of Turin - the Kinslaying, the Prophecy (one that resonates through all latter deeds); the betrayal, the rescue. The many characters' deaths come as climaxes of their arcs. And Dior's does not. He doesn't have an arc; it's just senseless violence. What's more - the Kinslaying hardly even has a clear outcome. Doriath is destroyed but the Silmaril remains out of the Fëanorians' reach and passes on to a frightened girl, who will later be threatened by her parents' killers. The only clear result is death.
This may have something to do with how this part of the Silmarillion had been more incomplete than the rest when Tolkien passed on (and arguably, the whole debacle with the dwarves and the Nauglamir is even more like that - though not the tale of Eärendil), but it's not even that I'm here to criticize it. It actually makes sense to me - here we have plain war. Not a somewhat symbolical conflict with evil, not young Tolkien sitting in the trenches and trying to find a framework for writing about heroic deeds when the war he knows is so pointless. It fits that the deaths are sudden and part of no preconceived pattern. That's what war's like. But all the same - the case of Dior is interesting. Not even because of what was, but because of what wasn't.
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echo-bleu · 5 months
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In Elrond v. the Valar, if Elrond is successfull in going against the Valar (which I hope he is), do you have any plans for Elrond then getting to see his sons, his parents and the Feanorians again? I obviously don't know all the things you plan on having Elrond challenge the Valar on, but I think it'd be great if he could get those imprisoned releasted, those doomed to horrid fates saved (cough Earendil) and travel between Aman and Middle Earth made possible so people can visit each other. Or hell, if Elrond manages to change things for the better in Aman, maybe the twins might come join him after all. But really, very excited for the idea of this fic, as I've been feeling very anti Valar lately.
Thank you for your ask! This actually gives me a great opportunity to dig deeper into my feelings on the Valar xD I'm going to put it under a cut because it got long.
The short answer is, I have no idea. I started this fic (I've rambled about it here) as a vent fic where Elrond gets to yell at the Valar, without really thinking about ever posting it. I was writing those towers we built and getting very angry at the Valar, and for some reason in the first months of my presence in the fandom I only saw very pro-Valar (or, at worst, "the Valar made a few mistakes but mean well, it's fine") takes. I'm fine with fics that go with that, but I think it's a point where my atheism butts heads with Tolkien's catholicism in a major way.
I really love fics where my favourite elves re-embody/sail and reunite in Aman in the Fourth Age and find ways to heal from their traumas, so naturally I wanted to write some (and also some angst such as those towers) but I found myself constantly stuck on what to do with the Valar. It's easy to just kind of ignore them when writing about LOTR events or even, to some extent, about First Age Beleriand. They're not there. They exist in a more material way than most gods but they're still remote, except for Morgoth and Sauron.
It's different in Aman. I went through a whole spectrum of questions/opinions such as "Aman is the Valar's domain and thus if the elves want to live there they have to play by their rules", but it just keeps falling apart whenever I think about it a little harder.
The sticking points for me are this: Númenor's Downfall, and "if thralldom it be, then you cannot escape it". The problem with the Valar, as a group, is that they are gods. They are both gods and rulers, and thus their rule is in the simplest sense of the word a tyranny. They are all-powerful. There is no recourse against them. They have no oversight (I'll get to Eru in a moment), no checks and balance, and they experience no consequence for their actions.
They have a prison system that you are put in by dying, so without trial, and are only released from if you are deemed to no longer be dangerous to society by some nebulous standards. There is also no recourse and no appeal, at least none within a recognizable system of law.
They claim all of Arda as their kingdom, but they abandon anyone who doesn't cater to them to whatever fate. They say the Noldor are free to leave Aman but completely shun them when they do, punishing them (the Doom) again without trial, and definitely not trial by peers. (Also even their way of "recompensing" people who do goodTM is dubious *cough* Eärendil *cough*).
And, even more crucially, they can decide to wipe out an entire people on a whim, again with no consequence.
Here we come to Eru, briefly: Eru is much easier to deal with for me because he is in nature remote. He is all-powerful but more in the way the laws of physics are all-powerful, if that makes any sense. He's not good or evil and he doesn't deal in the individual. See: Númenor (I tend to go with the headcanon that Eru didn't directly order the destruction of Númenor, but ultimately it doesn't matter, because it was the Valar who did it). That's also why he's not a useful oversight for the Valar: if the Valar decided to just wipe out all the elves, Eru would probably just make more elves and have them wake up at some other lake. And anyway, Manwë is the only one who can even communicate with Eru, so the Children can't exactly send complaints.
So we have a tyranny. Or at minimum, we have some kind of oppressive/unfair government, at its root (whatever the result is on the surface). How do we change that?
In real life, a fair government is one where the people in power switch regularly, and only the system remains (preferably with separation of powers and fair laws). It's subject to constant change. Even an absolute monarchy, the king dies eventually and, in theory, can also be overthrown. But a world ruled by gods? They are immortal and unchanging. There is no way to overthrow them. They literally have all the power.
This is where I get stuck in Elrond v. the Valar, and to some extent in those towers as well. It can't end in a revolution. The elves cannot do anything to change their situation that isn't the will of the Valar. The only change that can possibly happen, is for them to somehow convince the Valar to see their side, and/or sow enough dissention among the Valar that they no longer agree with each other.
So that's where I'm going, more or less. There is no fully happy ending there. Elrond will have to make his point, pray hope for meaningful change, without ever being able to trust it, because I don't think there's any way he can trust the Valar again after Númenor.
(It is, in the end, very much like real-life. We can only hope that the people who have power over us will hold themselves to the standards that they promised, and they generally don't. Even when there are recourses, they only work so far. Which is probably why the Valar make me so angry – they are an excellent stand-in for all these powers in our lives that betray us again and again.)
I'm trying to spin a lot of it around the concept of self-determination, which is something that I believe the Valar do not understand. The only one of them who ever exercised it was... Melkor. I am not having thoughts about Melkor redemptions. The Valar are made to be exactly what they are, and they don't change, so they don't recognize the Children's right to make mistakes, to learn, and to choose their own path.
I think we can get to a place where the Valar might understand that they need to defer the making of laws and judgment and generally governance to the people themselves. But the changes would take a huge amount of time and more than one fight (far more than I can do in one fic, in any case). So, is there a happy ending for Elrond and his family? I don't know. Release for those in Mandos, for Eärendil (whose fate always breaks my heart)? A mostly peaceful, bittersweet ending? Maybe.
I also cannot guarantee that it doesn't include a long stay in Mandos for Elrond.
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@ohmyarda's expressive portrait of Tar-Míriel Ar-Zimraphel illustrates @grundyscribbling's biography of the character.
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The downfall of Númenor is one of the (maybe the?) most cataclysmic events in the history of Arda. Involving a literal reshaping of the world and the consequent annihilation of an entire people, it was brought on by the rebellious voyage of Ar-Pharazôn to Aman, against the laws of the Valar. As his (unwilling) wife, Tar-Míriel had a front-row seat to the whole slow toppling of Númenor. Yet, as Grundy notes in this month's biography of Míriel:
"The text does not record Míriel’s reaction to any of these events."
As Grundy's biography of Míriel shows, she emerges as a sort of grace note on Pharazôn's story, at first just a name but then given something of a story of her own. I say "something" because her story is still very much enmeshed in her victimhood at his hands, so much that what she thought or how she reacted (or didn't) to the decisions he made go completely unrecorded.
We've now surpassed more than 150 character biographies on our site. Our reason for beginning that project back in 2007 was to provide resources for people creating fanworks. And while, if asked at the time, we probably would have said a primary aim was making more accessible the histories of some of the more complicated characters, Míriel is a reminder that an equally important purpose is bringing to light those characters whose histories Tolkien left missing, like Míriel. (She is mentioned twice in the published Silmarillion.)
Maybe her reaction to the ending of her world will at last be recorded.
You can read Grundy's biography of Tar-Míriel here, pubished by the @silmarillionwritersguild.
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elerondo · 2 years
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Understanding Fëanor’s perspective on the Oath of Fëanor
I read clothonono post and I do agree that the Oath of Fëanor was not made with reclamation of the Silmarils in mind. Before the Oath’s unfortunate escalation, the Oath of Fëanor was made by Fëanor for the purpose of avenging Finwë. I submit my case with paragraphs from The Silmarillion.
Of the Flight of the Noldor, p. 84
Then Fëanor ran from the Ring of Doom, and fled into the night; for his father was dearer to him than the Light of Valinor or the peerless works of his hands; and who among sons, of Elves or of Men, have held their fathers of greater worth?
The only context that Fëanor had at the time of Finwë’s murder was that:
1) Melkor slew Finwë, but Melkor was not alone. Of the Flight of the Noldor, p. 83, emphasis mine
But even as Nienna mourned, there came messengers from Formenos, and they were Noldor and bore new tidings of evil. For they told how a blind Darkness came northward, and in the midst walked some power for which there was no name, and the Darkness issued from it. But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm
2) Melkor took the Silmarils, among other jewels. Of the Flight of the Noldor, p. 83
And they told that Melkor had broken the stronghold of Formenos, and taken all the jewels of the Noldor that were hoarded in that place; and the Silmarils were gone.
Thus, Fëanor had all rights to suspect that Melkor may not have been working alone when “a blind Darkness came” but Fëanor did not have any clue who was with Melkor. Not only that, Yavanna had just asked for the Silmarils, and before Fëanor could answer, Tulkas prepositioned the idea that no one should deny Yavanna!
Of the Flight of the Noldor, p. 83, emphasis mine
Then Manwë spoke and said: ‘Hearest thou, Fëanor son of Finwë, the words of Yavanna? Wilt thou grant what she would ask?’ There was long silence, but Fëanor answered no word. Then Tulkas cried: ‘Speak, O Noldo, yea or nay! But who shall deny Yavanna? And did not the light of the Silmarils come from her work in the beginning?’
It seemed to him that he was beset in a ring of enemies, and the words of Melkor returned to him, saying that the Silmarils were not safe, if the Valar would possess them. ‘And is he not Vala as are they,’ said his thought, ‘and does he not understand their hearts? Yea, a thief shall reveal thieves!’ Then he cried aloud: ‘This thing I will not do of free will. But if the Valar will constrain me, then shall I know indeed that Melkor is of their kindred.’
Before Finwë’s murder, Fëanor believes that the Valar all support each other, even Melkor. Tulkas expects Fëanor to just roll over for Yavanna’s request, just because she is a Vala. Then, Melkor slays Finwë and Fëanor names him Morgoth. Worst, the Valar’s narrative being focused on the Silmarils’ Light instead of Finwë’s murder, though unspoken, was clearly understood by Fëanor due to their prior self entitlement regarding the Silmarils, and inaction regarding Finwë’s murder.
Alas! The Valar want the Silmarils for their Light, and Melkor (Morgoth) actually took the Silmarils! Had Melkor (Morgoth) not been chained before? And if Morgoth were to come under the Valar’s arrest once more, would the Valar then come into possession of the Silmarils finally? Furthermore, as mentioned, Fëanor knows that some being was working with Morgoth, but he knows not who. Fëanor does not know Morgoth wants sole possession of the Silmarils, or if the Silmarils would change hands. However, the matter of the Silmarils pale in comparison to his father Finwë!
Of the Flight of the Noldor, p. 84
Then Fëanor ran from the Ring of Doom, and fled into the night; for his father was dearer to him than the Light of Valinor or the peerless works of his hands; and who among sons, of Elves or of Men, have held their fathers of greater worth?
Fëanor made the Oath of Fëanor for the sole purpose of killing Morgoth, to avenge Finwë’s death. The Oath was worded in such a way that whoever touched the Silmarils would be killed. There is thus no loophole or any universe in which Morgoth could live after the slaughter of Finwë, even if Morgoth gave back the Silmarils, even if Morgoth was arrested and chained once more and the Silmarils are no longer in his possession. None shall defend him from Fëanor, and Fëanor's kin.
( bonus DLC: the sons of Fëanor could prevent more murders by taking back the Silmarils )
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spiritofwhitefire · 2 months
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One of my favorite things about maedhros is that I think he’s one of the only fictional male characters I’ve ever read who is such a perfect balance of stereotypically male and female character traits. Like, starting with the physical only, we are introduced to a character who is insanely tall for a male elf, 8 feet tall even among other seven foot elves. An extremely intimidating and powerful stature and then following that we learn that his main characteristic, something he is literally named for isn’t his power, strength, agility, political prowess, or fighting ability, all of which are talents he definitely has - no he is known for his physical beauty. To have all of your internal skills overlooked for your face is such a female experience, to be known for something that exists to be admired, used and then taken away and mourned when it’s gone is such a female experience. And I’m kind of obsessed with the freedom he might have had once that beauty was gone. Then he is known as a survivor, a fighter, a leader. But no one can ever forget that he was once beautiful, because isn’t that always the most important things ?
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avarindigenous · 2 years
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Finrod, the Edain, and Mighty Whitey
(a note:
there are going to be people who read this and disagree with me. there are going to be people who are deeply offended because I’m talking about something that’s clearly supposed to be cute or innocent and framing it in a light of racism and racist stereotypes. this is a good thing. all I can speak to is my perspective, and I want to begin a conversation, not end it. I’m addressing something that makes me, as one colonized person, incredibly uncomfortable, because I firmly believe it is not on purpose. it makes fandom spaces inhospitable and unwelcoming to me, and if I’m uncomfortable enough to make a post about this it’s probably concerning and upsetting to others. that’s why I’m bringing it up. if you disagree with me I welcome your conversation. if nothing else, at least consider my perspective.)
there’s been a trend of recent posts (I am not going to link any of them, because this is not meant to be either a callout or an incitement to harassment) portraying Finrod’s first contact with the Edain as something they find deeply culturally significant on more than a historical level, and placing Finrod in a role of “benevolent pet owner” or “spiritual advisor”. the Edain, particularly Bëor’s children, regard him as a saintlike figure to be revered and venerated if not outright worshiped, and his impact on their lives and culture is presented as downright religious. there are several art pieces going back years depicting Finrod’s first meeting with the Edain in an almost hagiographic way, with him angelically lit while wide-eyed primitive humans stare up at him in awe and wonder. other fanart draws on real-world iconography to paint him like a Catholic saint.
seeing these posts makes me deeply uncomfortable, and I’m not sure if the people involved are aware of the racist tropes they’re drawing on to facilitate these kinds of reads of the text.
when Finrod meets the Edain, they are a nomadic culture that has been traveling for generations. they have distinct languages for their different ethnic groups, they have family structures, and they have music. they are, in short, a fully-fledged people group. Finrod denies being a god when they ask him if he is one, and from that point forward they do not seem to have any kind of lasting religious tie to him. they don’t have the technology elves do, or the textiles, or the language, or the religion, but this is not because they are primitive. it is not because they don’t understand that different races exist. it is not because they need to be educated or awakened or guided into a better, more “modern” way of being.
now. Tolkien has a race problem. none of his work fully escapes it. as a result, while the text itself is clear that the Edain are not below the elves when it comes to their self-awareness and their abilities, the tone and style of the narration will often present the facts in a biased tone. if you’re not firmly convinced of the fact that nomadic or preliterate or otherwise non-Western societies are not primitive, there is ample room in the way that particular scenes are written to interpret them as if Finrod is lofty and high and advanced while the Edain are guileless and soaking up knowledge. there’s even a parallel between Finrod finding them and Oromë finding the elves in Cuiviénen. however, this is based on racist understandings of contact between different peoples. putting Finrod in a position where he treats the Edain like they’re adorable pets and the Edain treat him like he’s a religious figure is leaning into one of the oldest tropes in the book, quite literally.
there is a long history of “white or white-coded person comes into contact with primitive tribe only to be mistaken for a god” as a trope in historical and speculative fiction. examples include Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest, The Road to El Dorado, and The Return of the Jedi. many people now understand that this trope is racist, but it’s not solely racist because the “native tribe” or “primitive people” are presented in stereotypical ways. even if the natives are intelligent and innovative and given autonomy, like in The Road to El Dorado, the trope is still racist, because it assumes that no matter how good we are at other things, we’re always going to be simple religiously. it also centers white people in the spiritual and religious beliefs of those they have historically conquered, and sets up a power imbalance where our rituals and our traditions are mere superstitions to be exploited or dismissed.
this becomes even more of a problem when you consider that Finrod is almost always depicted as white, and canonically, the house of Bëor was darker-skinned. (Tolkien uses the antiquated and racially charged term “swarthy” to describe them in The Peoples of Middle-Earth, but this does not erase the fact that they aren’t white.) putting a blonde-haired blue-eyed white man at the center of the spiritual lives of brown people is not good. prioritizing the purity and pure intentions of a white man is not good.
Finrod is also a canonical colonizer. he built Nargothrond in a place already inhabited by the petty-dwarves and drove them out of their own home. I don’t say this to argue no one can love him. many characters in the Legendarium do morally dubious and terrible things, and many good or heroic people are also colonizers. it’s a reality of the text. now, liking him does not make you evil, and neither does minimizing those aspects of his character. there are any number of reasons someone might disagree with this interpretation of him, or might choose to ignore parts of his biography. but responding to the presence of a colonialist by further pedestalizing him in the eyes of people he then goes on to have power over is troubling.
I’m not saying we can’t keep having fun posts about Finrod’s relationship with the Edain. there are many ways to reparatively read the text, focusing on the good things and acknowledging the flaws while also downplaying their importance in our own conceptions of Tolkien’s works. writing Finrod as having an equitable relationship with the Edain, where he’s close to them the way he’s close to his Eldarin friends, is one way to do that. another is featuring more cultural exchange - Finrod teaching them how to play the elvish harp, and them teaching him about bone flutes or jaw harps or drums, is an example of that.
all I’m asking those who read this to do is to consider that putting Finrod above his newfound friends treats those friends like they can’t understand he’s not divine, or like they would automatically assume he was despite his denial. Finrod is not a Mighty Whitey. he isn’t saving the Edain from themselves. he’s made first contact, and befriended them, but they’re people, not strange animals he’s studying, and not lapdogs he can’t fully communicate with who only love him unconditionally. canonically, he treats Beren and Barahir like valued allies and friends, not like unusual oddities who add flavor to his court. he lets Andreth insult him and shout at him and criticize him. he sees these people as people, and that’s one of the best things about him.
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viola-ophelia · 10 months
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in defense of thranduil
hello! so you know how i occasionally do “in defense of” meta posts about unpopular characters ( X X X ) ? well, i’ve been thinking for a while about doing one for thranduil, but i wasn’t quite sure how to go about it since tbh, i don’t think anyone could call thranduil unpopular. his ao3 tag is very well-populated, and, ahem, a good portion of it is smut lol. he even has a ton of “x reader” stuff about him on tumblr, which to me is usually the hallmark of a popular character. but i’ve felt the urge to defend him anyway, and i think it’s because... well. i do think a character can be both popular and misunderstood, and for all the thranduil enthusiasm i’ve seen, i’ve seen just as much thranduil hate and criticism, so clearly something about him has people at odds. specifically, a lot of people seem to think he’s a bad dad, and/or that the peter jackson movies totally butchered his character, which is really interesting to me because i actually believe neither. so i’m going to try to illustrate why! i’ll be primarily discussing movie-verse thranduil in this post, with a few references to the books as a secondary source. so without further ado, here is why i think thranduil is A Good Dad Actually, and the movies are not a “butchering” of but a compelling darker/grittier spin on a character who - since he exists in tolkien’s written works only in a book for children and in the margins of a sprawling and very bloody history - only really works if you reconcile those two things. 
under a cut because as always, this is LONG!
let’s first talk about what seems to be people’s main grievance with movie-verse thranduil: the fact that he’s “turned into this greedy character whose only motive is getting back those gems” when that’s not what he’s like in the book. while it’s definitely true that there are a few key differences between book thranduil and movie thranduil, i actually don’t think that the two versions are so incongruous with each other. the areas where they differ, i think, flesh out movie thranduil into a character who compels beyond his simplified, kid-friendly presentation in the hobbit book and who makes sense within the larger historical context of his world. it’s true that the elvenking in the hobbit isn’t explicitly interested in material gain. he mainly seems to get involved in the battle of the five armies to help out bard, since mirkwood is allied with laketown. and there’s also no mention in the book of the elvenking having lost his wife, even though that’s a key part of his backstory in the hobbit movies. in the movies, those gems that he’s so interested in getting back from the dwarves are actually a necklace that belonged to his wife before she died. he’s still motivated by wanting to help laketown - which is why he shows up before the battle with wagons of food and supplies for the starving people - but he’s also motivated by grief - something deeply personal that none of the other characters (except gandalf, because gandalf knows everything lol) are even aware of, and this, i feel, gives depth to his character. 
the thing is, thranduil seems greedy because none of the other characters know of, and thus inherently cannot understand, his real reason for pursuing the gems. and it’s true - at face value, it doesn’t make sense why he’d seemingly put his people at risk for a random necklace. a pretty harsh reading of thranduil’s motives could even align him with thorin’s dragon-sickness. but remember how the battle of the five armies started? thranduil and bard pulled up with their forces thinking it was gonna be all of them against twelve dwarves and a hobbit lol. they probably thought there’d be no casualties and it’d be over in twenty minutes! they had no way of knowing how many other forces were going to get involved. and when thranduil does see the first elves laying dead on the ground, he tries to draw out. he never wanted to spend his people’s lives like that. he realizes he had been blinded by his grief for his wife and had acted selfishly - and personally, i like this a lot better than the book’s sort of handwave-y explanation for why the elvenking is even bothering to involve himself and his kingdom in the (petty, by his standards) affairs of dwarves and men. because... movie thranduil is not just Like That for no reason. he has a whole history, going wayyy beyond his wife’s death even, that makes him the way he is - and that is what is so satisfying about his portrayal in the movies, because it actually attempts to acknowledge that deeper context. 
we have to remember that thranduil, at least in comparison to pretty much every other character in the hobbit, is old as hell. he reminds us of this multiple times in the movies: “a hundred years is a mere blink in the life of an elf. i can wait.” for a character who presumably shouldn’t need to worry or think about death, he’s unusually fixated on his own immortality in the movies, a trait that is missing from the books. and while i do get why some readers are charmed by the idea of an elf who doesn’t seem to perceive himself very differently than the men and dwarves he’s surrounded by, i’m a lot more drawn in by the idea of an elf who just can’t forget about how different he is. because if you actually think about where thranduil fits into the bigger history of middle-earth, it’s sort of hard to turn the page back from this darker, more scarred side to him - because yeah, he might live forever if he avoids conflict, but he also knows death in a way that someone like bilbo baggins would not even be able to conceptualize. thranduil was born in doriath in the first age, making him old enough to likely have been involved in not one but two kinslayings against his people. we know nothing about his mother, making it likelier than not that she was lost in one of them when he was still a child. his father, oropher, the original elvenking of the greenwood, was killed in the battle of dagorlad in the second age - the “last stand” of elves against sauron. thranduil, fighting alongside him and the silvan elves, had to watch his father die and then be crowned as the new king right then and there. (also, oropher died in the very first charge of the battle, which then continued on for months. imagine how hard it’d have been to stave off that creeping hopelessness.) and finally, thranduil’s wife was killed in battle at some point not long after their son was born. thranduil’s dragon fire scar on his face is an invention of the movies, and it’s unclear when exactly it happened - at the same battle where he lost his wife? some time earlier? but anyways. i’ve been going on and on about his life for a reason, and that reason is Thranduil Has Seen A Lot Of Shit. it’s easy to look at him in the movies and critique him - why is he so cold? why is he an isolationist ruler when in the books he’s more welcoming (after initially chucking the dwarves in jail, lol)? but the hobbit isn’t really thranduil’s story, so exposing all of this context in the movies wouldn’t have made much sense, would it. and i actually like that there are some gaps, because that’s what makes him so interesting. no one knows his history, and why should they? when it comes down to it, thranduil is just a side character in someone else’s adventure. 
the last thing that i really want to address is thranduil’s relationship with legolas, his son - partly to refute the idea that he’s a bad dad, but also partly to talk about how despite all the griping that i’ve seen about how stupid it was to “randomly” insert legolas into the hobbit movies, it actually made so much sense for both of their characters. obviously, while it’s confirmed elsewhere that thranduil/the elvenking is legolas’s dad, legolas is not actually in the hobbit book. but this, i think, is more so to do with the fact that tolkien wrote the lord of the rings (and invented legolas’s character) after he wrote the hobbit, and less so to do with the idea that legolas is inherently “irrelevant” to the story of the hobbit. because if legolas is irrelevant to the hobbit, then is he irrelevant to thranduil? i really don’t think so, because even though tolkien gave us no clues as to what their relationship might’ve been like, even the fact that they’re father and son is really important. for thranduil, the fact that he has a son adds dimension not just to who he is in the movies - and yes, we see a fraught side of his dynamic with legolas as he has to reconcile with legolas growing up and wanting a freedom that thranduil with his too-deep understanding of the world’s dangers doesn’t want to give - but also to the concept of his character. thranduil has lost so many people he loved in horrible ways that now legolas is all he has left, and consequentially there’s so much talk about him as an oppressive parent, so paranoid of losing him that he keeps him imprisoned inside the always-closed kingdom gates. but at the end of the hobbit movies, thranduil also gives legolas his blessing to go on the quest to destroy the one ring. when it comes down to it, he is willing to let legolas do what's best for him, even knowing that this could be how he loses him. i know thranduil isn’t a perfect parent, that’s pretty obvious lol. but i don’t see how people watch these movies and their takeaway isn’t that he’s at least trying his best and that he does genuinely love his son. also, look at legolas! legolas is clearly proud of his identity as a wood elf. and he’s happy, he’s caring, he’s adventurous, he’s even pretty wise despite being one of the youngest elves. i don’t exactly see a traumatized victim of horrible parenting in him (and believe me, there is no shortage of victims of terrible parenting in the silmarillion/elsewhere in tolkien’s works) - i see a strong and well-adjusted young adult who wouldn’t hesitate to threaten anyone who spoke ill of his father’s kingdom with his bow lol. 
anyway, if you’ve made it this far through my rambling, i hope you can understand at least part of what i’m trying to say lol. it’s hard, because i have so many things i’m kind of trying to say all at once, but: tl;dr i actually think the hobbit movies did thranduil’s character right, not wrong, and that they do the opposite of proving that he’s a bad dad. :3
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absynthe--minded · 1 year
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There’s this thing that ends up happening with the women of Arda in perhaps the funniest example of Tolkien’s prejudices getting in the way of the story he’s trying to tell, where the woman who exists on the page and the woman he’s talking about in the narration are almost two completely different people.
Like, Éowyn is angry and bitter and violent and perpetually depressed, and he writes about her as if she’s a poor suffering maid in need of a savior. Melian is a selfish, mind-controlling, morally grey nightmare goddess, and she gets to be The Sad Queen. Galadriel is a shrewd politician who aligns herself with racists and imperialists to get what she wants (a country she can rule in her own right) who’s literally only classifiable as “good” due to her actions aligning with the goals of actually good people, but somehow she gets relegated to a flawless moral center. Míriel gave the greatest part of herself to Fëanor, and he’s egotistical and mercurial and dramatic and holds grudges and demands perfection from everyone, so what does that say about her?
idk I just think it’s hilarious that JRRT seems to have written these people by accident (see: the continued efforts to morally whitewash Galadriel and make her a better person) and then only realizes he’s gone beyond pure maidens and loving mothers once he comes back for a second draft
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novemberthecatadmirer · 5 months
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So my argument about Elwing is, her decision in the end was COMPLETELY LOGICAL
Because what did Celegorm’s followers do to Elurin & Elured?
They did not kill them.
They did not kill them; they got their hands clean from children’s blood by abandoning them into a forest and leave them to die of starvation or cold or evil creatures. Or worse, they might be picked up by Morgoth’s servants and suffer fate worse than death.
Elwing had completely NO reasons to trust M & M would not do anything similar when they said they would let the twins live if she gave them the gem.
—————
Another really interesting thing I realized rereading Silmarillion is that the Silmarillion version did not mention Elwing was threatened with her twins. It does heavily imply that she knew they were captured. But how she knew and whether she was asked to buy their lives with Silmaril is unknown.
And she did the right thing actually when she got turned to bird; she took Silmaril away from Beleriand. If she took the gem to Cirdan or Gil-Galad there was this chance that M&M would just attack them again.
It was actually Earendil who decided to not turn back. The text basically said he “saw now no hope left in the lands of Middle-earth” and “turned again in despair and came not home.”
It’s very interesting that not just Elwing was in despair drove to suicide previously, Earendil was in despair too.
I am just thinking Earendil was probably really in a very bad place mentally all his way to Valinor.
I think he did not even care about whether he got to live or not, and did not mind if he got killed as long as he got Valar to help. There was also a whole case of survivor’s guilt about him not being there when Sirion was attacked, and his decision to not turn back.
I really wonder if his “weary of the world” was heavy ptsd and depression…
And while Earendil was looking for Sirion, Elwing was not doing nothing in canon!
Somehow she wandered by the shore line and somehow went near to Alqualonde and somehow “befriended the Teleri”? And started telling them everything about “Doriath and Gondolin and the griefs of Beleriand.”
That’s a lot of coincidence out there that it almost appear intentional? There was no way Elwing did not learn where Alqualonde was from the Noldor. It almost looked like she was actively seeking the Teleri.
Like, Earendil was on this might-be-suicide mission to look for Valar to beg for help… and Elwing who was ordered to stay behind quickly started to make connection with local population and start actively telling them about all the sufferings of the lost family they abandoned oversea, the not-evil section of Noldor, and their old homeland?
I just wonder if Elwing, the one who actually did the political side of things in Sirion instead of her sailing-obsessed husband, has some backup plans going on here.
Like, if the Valar decided to murder Earendil, she’ll attempt to lead some mass protests to help her husband and have Teleri at least doing a Beleriand evacuation with their ships…
I really think Elwing was less depressed at this moment than Earendil… She still was able to chose life for both of them when Earendil kind of wished eternal rest.
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