#mean it | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

maikingsenseofit · 2 years

Text

The Grand Maiko Defense Post

Okay so I originally meant this to be a reblog for a post referencing my post - but I decided it would be better standalone - and in order to avoid controversy (something I attract a lot of) it would be better to try and not invoke any direct mentions - considering the last time I did I was flooded with troll posts shipping Mai and her infant brother.

That being said - this is long and juicy. This is the reference post:

I made my original post debunking common anti Maiko arguments off of this premise, right here:

“If Mai truly knew Zuko, she’d know that he wouldn’t be comforted by ordering servants around.”

I concede that the hot towel part wasn’t the best evidence. However, like OP admits -

“and also because yes, like any normal person, he does enjoy having people do things for him. Hence the little smile, the reassurance that it’s okay for him to be pampered, which assuages some of the guilt he’s been feeling since Ba Sing Se. He’s the prince, he can tell himself, he deserves it. That’s also why he takes the time to show off to his girlfriend a little a scene later by offering her anything she wants.”

Mai’s immediate thought to cheer up Zuko is to offer him the same things that cheered him up - or at least made him smile , which we explicitly see in both scenes-five minutes before. Mai obviously knows that Zuko is unhappy and is experiencing emotional turmoil. That is once again covered in The Beach episode. But despite all his emotional anguish, discomfort, and guilty conscious- he does eventually accept and revel in some of the comforts associated with being fire nation royalty. We explicitly see him smiling, accepting, and taking the palanquin ride or happily ordering fruit tarts for Mai. His guilty conscious here, no matter how powerful, wasn’t strong enough for him to completely disavow every and all of the comforts he was offered as a product of trying to be the perfect fire nation prince.

But let’s try and understand my main point here and something else I thought of while writing this. Zuko’s emotional turmoil isn’t meant to be assuaged by a palanquin ride or fruit tarts. Mai initially offers it because her immediate thought is to cheer Zuko up. Mai, as a character, is taught to be restrained with her emotions and there is an explicit parallel between what her mom says to her in Omashu “Mai your father was appointed Governor here. Be happy and enjoy it.” And what Mai says on the ship is “Stop Worrying.” As a product of her environment, she never learned how to sit with her emotions and truly understand the root of her issues. So yes, her immediate thought is to cheer Zuko up at least in a superficial way, because that is what she’s conditioned to believe all along - that emotions can simply be willed away.

Except it doesn’t work. And Mai doesn’t force it to work or become angry or frustrated at Zuko when he doesn’t listen to her. She lets him go. I cannot emphasize the importance of this enough. To say that Mai fundamentally doesnt understand Zuko - and in the same vein failing to acknowledge that after her attempt at cheering him up didnt work, Mai doesn’t get angry or frustrated. She realizes that this is a problem fruit tarts cannot solve and that what Zuko is going through is much deeper and he needs time and space to process this. So she does exactly that - she gives him the time and space to process his emotional turmoil.

She knows Zuko is experiencing difficulty, and although she is not privy to why he is experiencing it (unlike Iroh, she wasn’t there in Ba Sing Se and we never see Zuko explaining his entire journey to her (and yes I will address the life story part)) she offers him care and company - despite her limitations. Something we see was never offered to her - by her parents or her best friends, especially Azula. And to emphasize for what feels like the millionth time, Zuko and Mai are both products of emotionally abusive, unhappy families and childhoods. They never learned the right way to cope with emotions or to help others cope with their emotions. What we see here is Mai undoing what she learned by sticking with Zuko instead of shutting him down or attempting to Will away his emotions after her first offer.

To reiterate- She might not know the full reason why he’s feeling the way he is - but she knows he’s hurting, needs a shoulder to lean on, someone to accompany him during this difficult time. She knows he has had a troubled past and isn’t fully accepted or loved by his own family. It’s not easy being the girlfriend of one of the most complex people in the story. She’s a teenager - there are plenty of other Fire Nation nobles who she could sit and bitch with and order fruit tarts all day long. But she loves Zuko and she tries her best to be there for him. That is undeniable and canonically evidenced.

Part 2: regarding Mai’s purpose. Let’s analyze Mai’s purpose and relation to Zuko’s arc through a different lens, one in which she represents the hero’s goddess in the hero’s journey. For this, I’m going to reference another brilliant author, jill_rg on Live Journal, who states the following:

“Zuko knows what he has to do: join the Avatar and prepare him to defeat Fire Lord Ozai once and for all. It should be an easy decision. After all, what will he miss? Not his father, not the pomp and pleasure of palace life, not the glory and respect of his people; he believes ending the war and bringing about peace is what is best for his own country as well as the world. He knows he is doing the right thing, and he won’t miss anything he leaves behind. No, it would be too easy if there wasn’t one thing he regretted leaving behind, one thing he would miss, one thing he cared about: Mai.”

In short, Mai is the one tie to the fire nation that Zuko, our hero, has to narratively sacrifice to fulfill his journey. He can’t attain happiness or true enlightenment until he fully realizes his destiny, and in order to do that he must leave Mai behind.His sacrifice of their relationship makes his decision all the more heroic and poignant. The pain he suffers from making this decision makes it all the more meaningful - showing that it wasn’t easy for him to embark on the journey to teach Aang and a personal sacrifice had to be made for the greater good. Mai matches this sacrifice in the narrative by jeopardizing her life, her personal relationship with Zuko - for the greater good.

This makes Mai Zuko’s goddess, a trope and characterization that has been explored multiple times throughout popular hero’s journeys from The Odyssey to Star Wars. According to Jill-rg, who quotes Joseph Campbell from A Hero With a Thousand Faces,

“The role of the Goddess is more than a love interest; she is a powerful force in the hero's life and represents the fulfillment of all his desires. She can be a protective force who holds the power he needs to achieve his quest. When he falls, she will save him. When he succeeds, she will reward him. According to Campbell, she represents the totality of what can known, and "the hero is the one who comes to know."

What I see many anti-Maiko/pro Zutara people do is confuse Mai being Zuko’s goddess with Mai being Zuko’s temptress - a character in the hero’s journey who represents the fulfillment of all the hero’s desires at a cost. The temptress leads the hero down a self destructive path - and it’s little wonder who I’m talking about : Azula. Azula promises Zuko everything he ever wanted - to come back to the fire nation a crown prince with the respect of his father that he fought so hard to earn. But there are malicious intentions behind this promise - and if Zuko doesn’t comply with Azula’s expectations, it will lead to dire consequences.

“Mai further lives up to her role when she opposes the Temptress. Azula wants to destroy Zuko, but Mai does not let that happen. Zuko and Azula battle in The Boiling Rock, and she thinks he will be killed, but he is saved by Mai. Mai's protective force proves to be more powerful than Azula's destructive force. Azula brings Zuko the curse of spiritual death; Mai gives him the gift of life.”

The main point here is Zuko needs Mai in the narrative - she saves his life. She eventually realizes her position of fulfilling Zuko’s destiny, instead of leading it astray like Azula does. She represents a tangible, personal sacrifice that Zuko has to give up in order to fulfill his destiny - and she matches it by doing the exact same thing. We have two people here who love each other so deeply but cannot truly end up together UNTIL they fulfill their own responsibilities and roles. If this isn’t the bedrock for a beautiful relationship, I don’t know what is. Also - please refer to this link if you’re wondering why Katara doesn’t serve as Zuko’s narrative goddess:

This next part is something that I disagree with so much that I’m just going to state my piece and go. Part of online discourse is recognizing when nothing will change how someone views a character - so I’m just going to state my piece and leave it be.

Zuko was angry, irritable, and emotionally disregulated the entire beach trip. From the very first scene

Zuko [Cut to closer view of Zuko and Mai. Angrily.] Doing nothing is a waste of time. [Rises from his seat next to Mai.] We're being sent away on a forced vacation. [Walks over and grips the railing of the boat.] I feel like a child.

Then, as I mention in my other meta, despite Mai explicitly saying she doesn’t like sea shells, Zuko offers her the first thing he sees and erupts when she rejects it. Zuko accuses Mai of being attracted to another guy - when she barely even looked at him - and then erupts in a jealous fit of anger when Mai is simply having a conversation with another guy. Yet despite all his unjust behavior towards her - Mai is the one to offer the olive branch for Zuko by reaching out to him first in an attempt to offer support. Yet she is spurned again by Zuko.

Mai [Side-view. Hesitating at first.] Hey.

Zuko [View of both from behind. Turning to Mai.] Where's your new boyfriend?

Now to address the most ridiculous thing in this whole post - that “Mai only shows she cares for Zuko when she doesn’t have to support him emotionally” let’s look at this scene, where Mai, along with Ty Lee and Azula, helps Zuko divulge the root of his pain and why he’s so angry at himself - instead of shutting him down or feigning disinterest, like you allege she does throughout the show. She genuinely cares. She puts in the work to help him - at the height of him externalizing his emotion, symbolized literally and figuratively when the flames erupt around him.

Also, internalizing emotions means to keep emotions bottled up. Externalizing emotions means to vocalize them and act on them, btw :)

Zuko [Close-up.] No one. I'm just angry.

Mai [Side-view of the three girls.] Yeah, who are you angry at, Zuko?

Which is in direct contrast to what you claimed here:

“At no point does Mai dig into the root of why he is angry.”

“At no point did she offer him emotional support when he was in turmoil.”

But Wait - here she is quite literally providing him emotional support when he’s in turmoil, because despite him revealing that he’s angry at himself, it still does not pacify his feelings of turmoil and how his moral compass has gone awry. Yet despite all his anger, Mai takes a stand next to Zuko - showing she truly cares for him when no one else does. And it is exemplified by the small expression of relief on his face.

Now to counter this point:

“ That also means Mai can get Zuko back without having to do any of the hard emotional or ethical work herself.”

Im not going into the ethics or morality of Mai because I believe she falls under the ideology of putting herself and the people she cares about above ideals and morals. Explained in another meta, but basically she’s the Avatar version of Katniss Everdeen. And I answered why that doesn’t make her incompatible with Zuko in my “Yin and Yang” meta. But to claim that Mai is never introspective or doesn’t do any hard emotional work or is just wrong. And heres why:

Zuko [Aerial view of campsite. Walking up to the campfire.] I'm sorry, too. I wish you would be high-strung and crazy for once instead of keeping all your feeling bottled up inside. [Frontal view.] She just called your aura dingy. Are you gonna take that?

Mai [Aerial view of campsite. Leaning back.] What do you want from me? You want a teary confession about how hard my childhood was? Well, it wasn't. [Close-up.] I was a rich only child who got anything I wanted ... as long as I behaved [Cut to shot of the sky.] and sat still, and didn't speak unless spoken to. [Close-up of Zuko.] My mother said I had to keep out of trouble. We had my dad's political career to think about.

Zuko wants Mai to express herself and her emotions instead of keeping it all bottled up inside, something that we’ve seen she’s been trained to do not only from her mom (like you yourself acknowledge) but from her own account. Instead of resorting to her apathetic demure, she takes the second to consider what Zuko says - and decides to not take what Ty Lee said and move on - she addresses it. She reveals why she keeps up the “I don’t care about anything” facade. She does the emotional work. But it that wasn’t prove enough, Zuko still wants her to express her emotions and to break free from that facade. And what does she do?

Zuko: “I like it when you express yourself.”

Mai: “you want me to express myself? LEAVE ME ALONE.”

Mai: “I love Zuko, more than I fear you.”

So to claim that Mai never had character development, or that she, Like Zuko, didnt learn or grow from her past self is a deliberate and malicious interpretation of canon to support another ship or character. And what better to exemplify then the very next part of your argument?

“She’s the only one other than Iroh because she helped put Iroh in prison. You can argue about how loyal she is to Azula and whether she had a choice, but the fact of the matter is that the reason Iroh ain’t around, and Mai is the only one Zuko has to rely on, is because Iroh is in prison and Mai and Zuko would not have a relationship otherwise.”

W. H. A. T. What WHAT WHATTTTTTTT?

Are you forgetting that Zuko literally betrayed Iroh moments before? That his decision to join his sister meant rejecting his uncle and that Zuko knew that by doing this Iroh would suffer the consequences? Since I guess we all need a refresher let’s look at the Avatar wiki:

Mai was on Azula’s team, but Zuko made the deliberate choice to betray Iroh - knowing that it would brand Iroh as a traitor and result in his imprisonment. So what is the argument here? That Mai imprisoned Iroh? So she could continue a relationship with Zuko? That Mai would have imprisoned Zuko too? This is genuinely misogynistic. This entire paragraph reeks of making a woman culpable for something she literally didn’t even do - literally ignoring Zuko’s éxplicit and deliberate decision - to thereby prove some sort of point that I don’t even quite understand.

The real fact of the matter is that “the reason Iroh ain’t around, and Mai is the only one Zuko has to rely on” is because of ZUKO’s decisions and choices. He chose this. And yes relationships are all borne out of conditional necessity. Let’s look at Zuko and Katara. The only reason why Zuko makes amends to Katara and had to be introspective and evaluate his own decisions is because she was the only person in the Gaang who wouldn’t accept him. If Katara didn’t verbalize how upset she was in front of Zuko and the Gaang, he would have never asked “Why is your sister so mad at me?” And even then didn’t understand or remember the extent of his betrayal until Katara explicitly stated that she was the first person to trust Zuko.

Again, ship who you want to ship. But if you’re going to, in good faith I presume, evaluate a relationship based on its conditional necessity - let’s look at one where if it wasn’t for a mission and Zuko’s decision to enter the Gaang again - Zuko would have never apologized or reflected on how he deeply hurt a person who offered to heal his scar, despite being enemies.

Now why do I point out Mai being concerned for Zuko’s safety or Mai listening to Zuko when he talks - despite you considering it to be “low bars?” Because time and time again - this is how anti Maiko/pro Zutaras characterize Mai. They conveniently ignore the times where she a) actually listens to Zuko instead of shutting him down or b) shows genuine care for him or his safety. Let’s make something else clear here. It might be a low bar for Aang, or Katara, or Suki - all of which are characters who have loving parents, mostly happy families, and were loved or cared for by their community. Mai - like Zuko, Azula, or Ty Lee - did not have that. She had a mom who shut her down instead of allowing her to express her emotions. She had to put on a facade of apathy and not caring for anything or anyone because she was conditioned to behave or face the consequences - both by her parents and Azula. In the same way Azula fans especially cherish and mention moments where she expresses empathy - even though it’s a low bar for any other character- we do for Mai because it represents growing from her past instead of regressing back to coping mechanisms.

I have again wrote another meta where Mai learns how to cope with others emotions from her mom. In the same way her mom shuts her down when Mai explains “her life story” she does the same thing to Zuko. There’s no denying that. But to characterize her WHOLE arc or her WHOLE relationship based on her actions in the beginning instead of how she learns and grows in the end. It’s like taking the fact that Zuko called Katara a “water peasant” at the beginning of the show and saying Zuko never changed or their relationship never changed from the beginning. It’s discounting the times where Mai ASKS Zuko for his life story “Yeah Zuko who are you really angry at?” Or “How did the war meeting go?” And sits there and listens to it. Yes the scenes are cut off - but not because Mai cuts Zuko off or shuts him down. So to say that -“it was enough to convince Zuko that he couldn’t confide in her in person about his realization that he needed to leave and join the Avatar and restore honor to the Fire Nation” is in direct contradiction to when he says “I’m angry at myself because I don’t know the difference from right or wrong” and “I was the perfect prince but I wasn’t me” or “Im doing this to save my country” where Zuko DOES confide in her in person ABOUT his realization. He attempts to reason with her because some core aspect of him believes he can confide in her. Also the last thing Mai does in the Boiling Rock is turn her head. For me it shows she’s frustrated, but yeah, I don’t see her refusing to listen to him. But I guess THATS up to interpretation? Lol?

But does Mai really understand why Zuko did what he did?

Let’s see - she puts her own life on the line and risks facing the wrath of Azula to ensure Zuko and his friends arrive safely. Straight from your words - Why would she stand up to Azula unless she had a realization that Zuko’s life and mission were more important than selfishly clinging to her relationship with him?

But she did that just to save his life! She still doesn’t understand his values or his mission!

Yet when Zuko returns to the fire nation - Mai helps him get dressed. She’s not angry that he dumped her to run off with his friends. She knows that he had to do that because it was the right thing to do and his destiny. That’s why when Zuko asks Mai “does this mean you don’t hate me anymore” Mai answers “It means I actually kind of like you.” If she didn’t understand why he did what he did and that he truly never meant to hurt her and that this mission was more important than his own life - why would she reconcile with him at the end? The answer is right there - and you yourself said it.

Both Mai and Zuko, along with every other character in the series, had to sacrifice something personally for the greater good.

But she demands Zuko stay in a relationship with her!

And the inevitable next step - which is Mai “was abusing Zuko and threatening him into staying with her.” Cracks knuckles.

The difference between one statement and an actual, credible threat is intent. The viewer needs to critically think at junctions like these and determine authoral and character intent.

Throughout the season, we never see Mai control or demand Zuko into staying in a relationship with her. Her intent is not to make and force Zuko into being her boyfriend. The evidence?

1. During The Beach - Mai breaks up with Zuko when he’s acting like an ass. She is willing to walk away from a relationship. She doesn’t force herself to stay or for Zuko to stay.

2. At The Boiling Rock, Mai is willing to die for Zuko to live. She betrays Azula - knowing that it means Zuko makes it safely and she’ll face death. Mai made This decision knowing she couldn’t be in a relationship with Zuko or that they would be together after that.

Not once do I see in any of Mai’s actions or interactions an attempt to control or possess or force Zuko into staying with her. To be frank, I see it in Zuko given his actions on The Beach and also how he literally orders Mai to stay in the comics (that’s beside the point).

But I’m not someone to say how a character should feel about something they interpret as potentially abusive or threatening - cause most times it’s a reflection of their own personal history. But I’m simply describing what the authors intended, what 99% of the people who watched the show saw, and what Mai and Zuko fans see. I think @attackfish did a really great job explaining this here:

“she clearly expects to die for it. Again, there is no vindictiveness here, no attempt to punish Zuko for leaving her, in spite of the fact that she is obviously hurt. Instead she performs an act of profound love and sacrifice.”

“And this is why her joke in the finale works, because when she tells Zuko “Don’t ever break up with me again,” she is reminding him, and the audience of the last time he did, when she “sav[ed] the jerk who dumped [her].” Zuko, it’s also clear understands the joke for what it is, since after giving her a nervous, guilty, little smile, he relaxes happily into her arms.”

both of the times Zuko left her - he put his own life at risk. And given that Mai cares about Zuko’s safety and has quite literally saved his life - this means that she doesn’t want him to die again but if he were to put himself in a compromising position (she would begrudgingly save his life, again).

The real reason why he left her - someone who we see disobey Azula and joins random missions for fun is because in CANON he says he does it to protect her.

“Everyone in the fire nation thinks I’m a traitor. I couldn’t drag her into it.”

Above all, Zuko loves Mai. He wants to protect her. And if it meant protecting her physically but hurting her emotionally in order to save her from Azula’s wrath - he does it. But little does he know that Mai is willing to face the consequences of being a traitor to protect Zuko. That’s why I love Maiko everyone.

Now that most of the exposition is done, here are bullet proof points to refute the rest of your arguments:

1. “Zuko doesn’t pick up on this because he’s desperate for his father’s approval, but he will after the meeting. Mai doesn’t pick up on it because she doesn’t really know Zuko or his inner turmoil, nor does she really understand the depth of how evil the Fire Nation really is.”

Zuko HIMSELF doesn’t know the depth or extent of his inner turmoil at this point. Mai understands that he’s feeling confused and angry, Zuko understands that he’s feeling confused and angry, yet neither of them fully know or have the solution to assuage his problems. He comes to this realization at the end of the episode. Mai understands that Zuko is an emotionally complex teenager who was raised in a less than loving environment. He’s experiencing difficulties right now and moral and emotional conflict - she doesn’t understand the full extent of it, but neither does Zuko:

Because I'm confused. Because I'm not sure I know the difference between right and wrong anymore.

So what does she do in the mean time? She listens to him - an effective and safe sound board for him to come to terms with his emotions, tries to rationalize with him, and when that doesn’t work a provides him company, and trusts him and believes him.

2. “Nor do I think she really understands the very real danger he is in, otherwise she wouldn’t be happy when Zuko does go to the meeting, knowing what happened to him the last time he attended one. Because Zuko is not safe any time Ozai has access to him.”

Except wouldn’t Zuko also face the consequences of refusing to attend a war meeting he was specifically asked to attend by his abusive and overwhelmingly powerful? ISNT that why Mai waits outside of the war meeting the whole time so she can ensure that Ozai didn’t do anything to Zuko, moreover that Zuko wasn’t harmed - unlike the last war meeting he attended?

3. “How did she hold him accountable? By deciding that she cares about him after he internalizes his anger and the conversation is over?”

Right here:

Zuko [Side-view of Mai.] My life hasn't been that easy either, Mai.

Mai Whatever. That doesn't excuse the way you've been acting.

And Shit on Bryke as much as you want but they do an incredible and powerful job of conveying something that all children need to hear:

And that's a great line [Laughs.] from Mai. [Katie laughs.] Like she's, she's like she knows, [Katie affirms.] you know, [Katie gives affirming murmurs intermittently.] she knows, she's li-Z-Zuko her-her whole life, she knows his life's been intense, but, that's a good line that it doesn't excuse the way you've been acting, and at a certain point everyone has to take responsibility for... the choices they're making and rise above the things that happen to them. And, you know, that's, everybody's dealt a different deck of cards, but that's the-ultimately the challenge, is can you... rise above your sit-your situation, and-and kind of solidify your own identity.

4. “Morality and redeemable actions, as it happens, absolutely are two of those conditions that love depends on. if person you love doesn’t have morals that align to yours and doesn’t have redeeming qualities in your eyes, then there’s nothing to base the relationship on”

I concede - I could have done a better job explaining this. So I’m going to explain what I was referencing here.

For Zuko and Katara - morality and redeemable actions are the ONLY pillars on which a relationship would work. Katara makes this very clear when she makes a tangible (and extremely well justified) threat to Zuko:

“So let me tell you something right now... you make one step backward, one slip up, give me one reason to think you might hurt Aang, and you won't have to worry about your destiny anymore, because I will make sure your destiny ends... right then and there... permanently.”

Conditional in the sense Zuko had to prove himself worthy to Katara - and Katara only fucks with Zuko as long as he doesn’t hurt Aang and pays for his actions. A relationship solely condition on morality and redeemable actions. Because if Zuko were to ever hurt Aang in the future even after the show ended- there would be no relationship between him and Katara. And if Zuko never redeemed himself for his actions - there would never be a relationship between him and Katara.

Sure all relationships require people to be morally aligned and have redeemable qualities - but if those are the ONLY pillars for the core of your relationship - it’s a much more tenuous bedrock - not even bedrock actually- for a solid relationship. Something to consider before launching into dissertations about why the canon relationships won’t work.

Oof my fingers are tired. Also I’m tired. Of explaining why Mai fulfills Zuko’s needs yadayadayada. My next post will be about how Zuko fulfills Mai’s needs. Cause let’s make this shit equal.

#mai #zuko #avatar the last airbender #atla #atla maiko #maiko #pro maiko #ANTI #anti zutara #I #MEAN IT #indefenseofmaiandmaiko #maikoforeverbitches

123 notes · View notes