#literature debate

[multiverselibrarian]

Anybody wanna be my queer-lens, comedy-heavy classical literature buddy?

i have options!!

~PHANTOM OF THE OPERA

(both the 2004 film musical and the book) please someone I need to talk about how Raoul and Erik are actually more alike then different please I need to rant about the tragedy that is Christine’s personal agency being erased for SyMBoLiSm please

~ FRANKENSTEIN

i literally wrote my senior year English final on the queer themes!!! And animated a whole animatic to support it!!! My copy is so utterly annotated it’s destroyed but I kept a tally mark throughout of gay occurrences

~JANE AUSTEN

that’s the whole tweet

~PRETTY MUCH ANY HISTORICAL DRAMA

i don’t always wanna use my brain, sometimes I just want to scream over love triangles and yearning and society’s fashion because those have just as much emotional significance

….. also pride and prejudice and zombies

AND MORE

#historical drama #reading buddy #classical literature #queer lens #Frankenstein #Emma 2020 #phantom of the opera #books #literature debate #jane austen

[burningvelvet]

Some of the pages and covers of Percy Shelley’s notebooks (1811-1822) — accessed through the Digital Bodleian Library

#academics debate whether the good drawings were by him or edward williams #but most of the doodles are undoubtedly his #i love the 1800s marble print covers #percy shelley #percy bysshe shelley #literature #aesthetic #art #english literature #dark academia #poetry #history #geneva squad #writing #romanticism #mary shelley #the romantics #notebooks #journaling #doodling #reading #artifacts #archive #library #bodleianlibrary #interesting #english lit #1800s #regency

[classycoffeesublime]

I can fix her

Her (Me):

#academia #classic academia #dark acadamia aesthetic #romantic academia #books #acadmia #aesthetic #books & libraries #university #studying #debate #theater academia #theatre #opera #literature #albert camus #franz kafka #jane austen #emily bronte #law academia #lawyer #law school #law #uni struggles #uni is killing me #uni life #university aesthetic #college

[thoughts-of-caly]

every friend group got the:

quaker (affectionate)

alcoholic

literature nerd

will die made about it (don't ask what it is)

war criminal

dad friend

poor little meow meow

theatre kid

yeah i'm from philly how could you tell is it that i'm mean to everyone. all the time

cinnamon roll (x2)

#probably missed some sorry #band of brothers #tag urself im literature nerd #debated over putting “from west virginia” instead of “dad friend” #random thoughts

[bardofavon]

thinking a lot about how fatal flaws are misconstrued as being moral failings when actually hamartia is a moral neutral.

the best kind of fatal flaw, in my opinion, is one that’s both a character’s greatest strength and biggest weakness at the same time. it needs to be their biggest weakness intertwined like vines with what makes them admirable. it’s their very virtues that bring them to ruin!!! it’s something they can be lauded for that spells their death!!

it’s macbeth’s ambition. it’s oedipus’s loyalty to his state and unending thirst for truth and justice. it’s hamlet’s obsessive contemplation and wish to make sure his every decision is the right one. it’s being loyal to the point of blindness or confident to the point of hubris.

in any other story they could succeed because of these traits, but they aren’t in any other story, and in theirs it’s exactly what damns them.

#IN THIS ESSAY I WILL— #the thoughts I have while writing fanfiction. anyway. #classics #Greek literature #Shakespeare #poetics #look I know this idea is debated but I still think I am correct #me talking about Aristotle’s poetics in 2024 like it’s anime discourse #LOOK ITS DRIVEN EVERY WRITING CHOICE IVE MADE SINCE 2014 OF COURSE I HAVE THOUGHTS

[communistkenobi]

there are certain academic writing styles that are insufferable and miserable to read but hard to describe - it’s writing that uses jargon for the sake of it. like jargon is effective when you don’t have anything else on hand, it can be powerful in summarising complex ideas or processes or traditions. I even find it sometimes effective when writing in a more rhetorical/flowery register. but you really do not need to use the word “caesura” when you just mean “break” like come the fuck on dude

#it also just signals like a lack of desire to communicate to anyone outside of an academic audience #there’s lots of debates about what counts as public knowledge + gatekeeping language and literature in the academy #but my position is always don’t use jargon unless you need to #I think if you are a leftist academic your goal should always be to spread as much knowledge as possible #and propagandise to whoever you can #can’t do that if you’re talking like this

[letterstoyourlove]

#lovers #politics #eldest daughter #women #debate #dark acadamia aesthetic #dark academia #light academia #chaotic academia #books and reading #literature #literary quotes #books & libraries #bookstagram #tumblr memes #so true #but yeah

[lemonhemlock]

not to be a hater on main but i just stumbled on a tik tok claiming that tsh both takes itself too seriously and could use more absurd comedy and it nearly made me punch a wall

#my quest to find agreeable creators on booktok and booktube leaves me v frustrated sometimes #!!! i accept no criticism of this book #but even without stan goggles on how can say with your entire chest that tsh takes itself too seriously #when it literally makes fun of 'dark academia' types TO YOUR FACE #which is ironic for the book that spawned the entire genre #it's a comedy of manners at the very least #'this book that contains copious amounts of absurdly comedic situations and makes fun of pretentious twits obsessed with aesthetics #could use more absurd comedy and is not satirical enough' #recognising those basic building blocks of the text does NOT even mean to have to like it?? #i hate to be bringing the Reading Comprehension debate again but good lord. and this person claims to have a phd in literature too 🤦‍♀️ #i am so over this pretense at criticism that basically boils down to 'i didn't like this thing so i can't be seen to admit it executes #anything well. so instead i'm going to pretend basic obvious techniques in the text don't exist and peddle it as groundbreaking critique' #stuff like recognising basic genre. what happened to that. #i don't like The Hangover either but it would be very strange to call it anything other than a comedy #the secret history #donna tartt #again you don't even have to like the book!!! #I'M SORRY BUT IT MADE ME WANT TO RANT SO BAD #livresque #booktok and booktube are satan's garden

[therealdesitalk]

🪷Hey everyone🪷

Im digging into a topic that's been on my mind lately and I'd love to hear your thoughts. Why is it considered normal for a boy to expect dowry from a girl but if a girl were to ask for dowry it's seen as wrong? Who decided these rules and more importantly can we challenge and change them?Let's have an open and honest discussion about gender norms and societal expectations, I believe it's crucial to question traditions that perpetuate inequality and to explore ways to break free from them so what do you guys think? Share your opinions and let's explore this together

#desi side of tumblr #desi tumblr #desi stuff #desi aesthetic #desi thoughts #desi shit posting #desi culture #desiblr #desi humor #being desi #desi girl #desiblogger #desi blog #desi tag #desi literature #desi blr #desi core #desi chaotic academia #desi life #desi light academia #desi dark academia #desi studyblr #desi student #desi people #desi academia #txt post #discussions #debates #geetkibkchodi #girlblog

[fictionalized-lesbian]

Do you ever get an overwhelming feeling of melancholy when you remember that the Library of Alexandria was destroyed?

#imagine if it was still around #I don’t know if that’s plausible or not #but imagine #and I know there is debate over if it was destroyed #but regardless #it’s not here #and I’m sad #all those books!! #history #library of alexandria #literature #personal #random thoughts

[amaliatheartist]

That recent twitter meme with the comfort characters

#amalia's art #I realized I haven’t showed any art from the sketchbook I started recently so I gotta rectify that #these here are Oswald the lucky rabbit and Ishmael from moby dick (and more specifically the greek musical) #in my head I couldn’t decide which one saying to the other would be funnier #I also debated whether I should put in Starbuck instead of Ishmael but in the end I drew Ishmael #this is purely self indulgent #art #artists on tumblr #oswald the lucky rabbit #ishmael #moby dick #moby dick the musical #moby dick musical #classic literature #moby-dick

[garden-bug]

This post discusses the value of the application of moral values to stories not typically considered literature. Lit students and writers, enjoy (I can promise you it doesn’t go into much depth but hopefully it’s a little interesting).

Please only respond if you have read Timothy Zahn’s Thrawn. Do not respond based on the Ahsoka series or Filoni’s depiction of the character I don’t think Filoni understands this character either.

Just rbd somebody who thought the entire fandom was obsessed with good vs evil and applying certain moral values. Been thinking about this and can’t figure out what’s wrong with that in the slightest. Anyway, I need to know what we all think cause I’m curious now.

Some thoughts on the value of the application of moral values to stories below (read at your own risk oh my god sorry). Disclaimer: I am a literature student.

My experience of this fandom is positive overall. We like Thrawn but understand his moral ambiguity (unless… you don’t. In which case, what books have you been reading and do you understand what moral ambiguity is? It doesn’t mean he’s a ‘bad’ character. If anything it’s a good thing because it makes him more interesting. Compare morally ambiguous Zahn’s Thrawn to the much less ambiguous and more evil Filoni’s Thrawn. Which is a better character? See, we’re analysing morality here.)

Genuinely, if you picked one of the 100% options and have a good reason let me know why because that’s so interesting to me. You must have a very black and white world view.

For anyone who picked the last option, you’ve just undermined one of the major reasons we study literature and the value and intrigue of stories to society (and my uni degree lol). Interesting choice. You must have had some bad experiences in this fandom.

(Also DNI in that case. I’m not interested in a debate on whether critical analysis of morality is interesting you can read my final essay. Also BORING. CRINGE. Idk just DNI or do so I can block you I guess because interacting with someone when they said DNI is an interesting moral choice as well since we’re on the topic.)

As I said before, you can still enjoy a character and acknowledge (and appreciate) their moral flaws. ‘Good character’ and ‘good morals’ are not synonymous. Why does people talking about morality annoy you so much? I’m sure they appreciate the character more than you for it. (Unless they’re being 100% about it in which case fair enough that’s annoying BUT bear in mind it’s unrealistic to expect people to address the moral ambiguity of an entire story in a post about one specific aspect. Some people will tho they are cool.)

#have u guys met the death note fandom #thrawn #thrawn ascendancy #thrawn trilogy #Star Wars #debate #moral debate #mitth'raw'nuruodo #grand admiral thrawn #ascendancy trilogy #literature #literature studyblr #not really but I’m sure the literature students will love this #writing #writeblr #value of critical analysis I guess #creative writing #the writers will love this too

[miaoqing]

Okay, I've been thinking a lot about that whole thing with using the term "unreliable narrator" for Shen Yuan, and I want to throw in my two cents.

(looong explanation under the cut)

There are two layers to storytelling - narration and focalisation.

A narrator is the voice telling the story; it will usually be either a character inside the story (intradiegetic narrator) or a being outside of the story (extradiegetic narrator) who usually knows at least some of the things that the character/s are thinking or feeling.

Focalisation is about the being whose thoughts the narrator is conveying. A story written in the 1st person pov where a character is narrating their own life would have homodiegetic focalization. A 3rd person pov where the narrator is someone outside of the story would have heterodiegetic focalization. A story where the narrator's knowledge is unlimited has zero focalization.

What we have in SVSSS is a story narrated by a (seemingly) omniscient being, so an extradiegetic and heterodiegetic narrator. Thus, the narrator is someone outside the story, not SY, and calling him an unreliable narrator is wrong. Right?

No! SVSSS has internal focalization, meaning that the narration is focused on the thoughts and feelings of a character, in this case Shen Yuan. (As opposed to external focalization where the narration is limited to just the setting, what characters are doing, etc without delving into their thoughts).

What we read in the story are Shen Yuan's thoughts and feelings in the 3rd person. So far so good - nothing weird there. The trouble comes in the form of the fact that obviously, somewhere along the way, SY's actual thoughts/feelings get filtered/censored, so to speak, and we read a stripped down/edited version of them. This means that somewhere along the line, someone is unreliable. But we don't know who - maybe we are reading a straight up transcription of SY's thoughts and he is just that much more delusional than we thought. Maybe the narrator is leaving some things out, or isn't granted access to his "true" thoughts. It's impossible to tell.

The only thing we know for sure is that we are reading what we are meant to believe to be what SY sees happening/thinks about/feels. What we do not know is whether or not that is the objective truth.

So - even though Shen Yuan isn't the "narrator" by definition, it is still through his eyes that we see the events of SVSSS happening. There are no truly objective statements in SVSSS - it's all composed of Shen Yuan's thoughts, and who knows how much of the truth is lost to his mental gymnastics. As I said before, we don't know where exactly the unreliabilty comes from, but unless you want to have to write out this entire explanation every time and still not even have a definitive answer, let's just say that Shen Yuan is the unreliable one for simplicity's sake.

TL;DR it's fine to call Shen Yuan an "unreliable narrator" and to pull the "oh but he isn't narrating the story" is to pointlessly argue semantics. We all know what we mean by "unreliable narrator". it's not that deep. just laugh at the joke and move on. thanks for coming to my tedtalk

#this might be a bunch of rambling #i kinda have a headache and also it's 3 am #i probably could have said all this in half as many words. alas #svsss meta #svsss #my credentials are: english major #literature minor #xoxo #and yes this is very much inspired by that post where op made a joke calling all three mxtx mc's unreliable narrators #and someone threw a fit in the notes #like pls if you want to debate literary devices so bad just get off of tumblr and go to uni #meow #tag for things to quote in arguments

[crow-in-springtime]

You know what? Fuck this, fuck you *aromanticizes your classical heroine*

#this is specifically about ophelia. because think about it all this debate over whether or not hamlet loved her and none over whether she #loved hamlet. I do think she loved him but not in a romantic way. think about it! she goes mad over her fathers death and all the abuse #she’s suffered at the hands of men not just because hamlet rejected her. and need I remind you she was the one originally rejecting him in #that scene. everyone is so focused on what hamlet’s true feelings are that we never really learn what ophelia thought or felt. #“made many tenders of his affection to me” “I do not know my lord what I should think” “madam I wish it may” #“madam I wish it may” because it would be such an easy solution! because if all that’s needed to cure hamlet’s madness is ophelia’s love #then it will be easy to fix! then hamlet no longer has to suffer and they can be together! so then why does that line feel so resigned? #we’re told by everyone that hamlet is in love with ophelia and from that we just assume she must be in love with him too. #anyway. aromantic bisexual ophelia for the win. thank you for coming to my TED talk. #ophelia #hamlet #shakespeare #classic literature #aromantic #(ky attempts to figure out if she is aromantic by talking about fictional women. more at 8) #ky’s gallery

[crunchy-letters]

Why do teachers take questions and debates as a personal offense??

I want to learn??

#chaotic academia #dark academia #light academia #classic academia #dark academism #dead poetry #classical literature #cryptid #academic validation #sociology #debate #questions #makes no sense #what #confusion

[meirimerens]

"great discussion"? dude you just went off on someone who was simply sharing their enthusiasm about the kin and the game. you didn't need to go all redditor-debate-king on their ass and act like your response is a peer-reviewed academic paper. you took his response to your friends, tore it apart, and then came back to tumblr to act self-righteous about it.

oh you're so silly aren't you! when i said "great discussion", i meant it. heartily, fully, like i would have told a friend after a debate in philosophy class. i like that we're able to discuss these things. and i'm glad this reblogger came to me with their opinions, because it was (as far as i can recall) the first time someone brought up the Kin being any way a "careful" depiction of real-life cultures. i've repeated many manyyyyy maaaany ways in my reply that it is far from what i've heard from most people, from most indigenous people in this fandom. the fact that tone does not carry through internet back and forth is not my problem. and the fact that you are reading haughtiness or self-righteousness in it where it is not, is yours.

i took the reply to my group chat because there are central-asian indigenous people in this damn chat, who i assumed would know more + have other opinions that the replier, because. you know. the Kin is inspired by their peoples. and i wanted their opinion on it, because, you know. not mine.

you are assuming i'm taking issue with someone's appreciation of the Kin. i am not. i appreciate the Kin. i love the Kin. I love the Herb Brides, goddess bless. I always want people to love them, to be kinder to them. this is one of the reasons i reiterate myself that the main opinion that i've seen around the Kin is that it is mishandled. and i reiterate this because i (and many other people) want to recognize how the kin is mishandled. pretending that "oh you're just mad at someone being appreciative of the kin" was my take is bad-faith. you can be appreciative of the kin and recognize its mistreatment. you will have to. going "pointing out the racism in the narrative that has been multiple times talked about by the people it directly impacts is ruining people's fun actually :(" is a braindead take. just dust between those two ears my love.

i don't go on reddit for my own sanity. i didn't "act like [my] response is a peer-reviewed academic paper", it was the ramblings of someone who does research about things out of autistic fun and the tldr of multiple discussions i've had in this group chat, formatted like shit, no sources just vibes, and i've never claimed it to be anything else! i assume that when all you do is be on reddit, every lengthy person reads like a redditor.. i hope you're not taking Humanities in college.

you are making up imaginary things about me that straight up don't exist in the source material (or my own words) to be mad about, misconstructing my internet ramblings for something they are not, and applying bad-faith readings to my group chat's discussions because you don't like being told dissident opinions. i loved reading the replier's take, and am glad people are digging deeper into the cultures they're inspired by. Your bad-faith reading of what is ultimately Me Blogging and Being Lengthy Because I Read Shit For Fun (like a NERD! like some kind of... NERD!!) and out of autistic hyperfixating makes me believe you would be torn to shreds in any academic context worth their salt, even though my blog is not one. you shall be turned into dust!

#you are not making it out of junior high english courses. #ring (blabbers) #you're goofy as shit. if i wanted to make an essay i would. i've studied literature i can put together a mean essay. but it's my blog. #if you're trying to read debate-king redditor levels in it; well. i'm so sorry you were never passionate enough about something #to do research. also slightly worried. hope you're well!