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kinardsevan · 2 days

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I figured it out. Why hearing that Tommy is a plot device/temporary is so infuriating. It’s the equivalent of being told “it’s just a phase”. As in, Buck just needs a phase to “figure out” being bisexual so then he can guide Eddie through it??? That logic is fucked on so many levels.

Evan Buckley is a grown ass man. He may be figuring out what he likes coming from another man vs a female in a committed relationship, but it’s not like he’s NEVER kissed or had sex with someone before.

Also, I’ve put off saying this, but I think (one of) the things that bothers me most about the possibility of Buddie on any level is that you have to trust in the whole “I fall for my best friend and they fall back at the same time” trope. That shit is not only rare, it’s painful. And given that 911 tends to go for realism (on some level) versus the fantasy when it comes to building relationships, you can’t tell me that Buddie would get it easy. But there’s an entire class of people who think this is the hard part, and one day Eddie is just gonna wake up and realize now that Buck is canonically bisexual. But like… that’s not very realistic? Also, the point Ryan keeps making about Eddie being heterosexual. And also, I genuinely believe that given the original plans for Tommy’s arc, that when Ryan said no, that was their chance.

Hear me out:

Buck would’ve been far easier to flip on a whim of “I’m into my best friend” after Eddie having a moment with Tommy. The ground work is already there, with previous situations (TK, etc). Eddie on the other hand, has so many other issues to contend with (Shannon, Christopher, his faith) that without someone basically shoving him in that direction, it really doesn’t fit.

To which brings my point: I feel like there was probably a conversation (at the very least, if not more than one) had at some point before the season started, and knowing the ideas Tim had on the table, there was an engagement of “this is the direction we want to move in, how do you feel about it?” Because truth be told, you can’t force someone six years into their contract to suddenly make changes they’re not cool with. and again, I feel like when that possibility was broached, and Ryan said no but Oliver said yes, this was the result.

Ryan does not want to play a queer character. Oliver doesn’t have a problem with doing so, nor does Lou. (And all of that is OKAY). But to that end, Ryan literally cannot be forced to do so if he does not want to. (I imagine there are probably bylaws via SAG/AFTRA that ensure this under some level of sexual harrassment, etc). And again, it’s one thing for an actor to read fanfiction about their character, even send it to their scene partner and be like “hey look at this”. But that doesn’t equate to them being like “okay yeah, the fans want it so we should do it”. Case in point? Go look at the entire Marvey fandom in Suits. I personally have a retweeted twt from Aaron Korsh like 6/7/8 years ago which I commented on the two of them kissing. Guess what? It never happened. And AK and Co were well aware of the side of the fandom that wanted those two together.

I don’t know what happens with Lou and Tommy from here on out obvs. They’re certainly teeing up some options, though we don’t have any clear answers due to just entering hiatus last week. But even if he’s gone in s8, that will never ensure that Buddie happens, and I’m not even trying to be mean about that. It’s just fact.

#bucktommy #evan buck buckely #tommy kinard #not just a phase #honest storytelling #these are the things that get under my skin

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nightwolf14292 · 2 days

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Y'know one of my favorite things about being in the Batman fandom is that now the characters live in my mind at all times. I'm bored because the internet's out? Thinking about them. I'm trying to fall asleep? Thinking about them. I'm listening to music? Hey, that lyric reminds me of [Batfam member].

But honestly it isn't the badass fight scenes, or the depressing angst scenes, or even the romantic scenes that I like to imagine most. It's just.. Mundane thing, or them being silly. For some reason it's comforting.

Alfred acting like Bruce's father figure, sitting by him when he's stressed and giving him a firm side hug as Bruce finally relaxes for once in his life.

Dick listening to music, using a Bat-Grappler to zip around Gotham and flipping/jumping off of buildings to let off steam, using the moonlight and his instincts to guide him, feeling the cool Gotham wind in his hair.

Jason drinking a cup of hot chocolate, reading a book in the Wayne Manor library as he sits in front of the fire, maybe letting you sit on his lap to read with him, and if he's reading something old English like Shakespeare he'll gently explain what the fancy words would translate to in modern English.

Going to Batburger at 3AM with Tim, sitting quietly together as you eat greasy yet delicious burgers, looking out of the window by your booth into the starry sky as he tells you about his day.

Saving a cat from a tree with Damian, watching him look at the cat with so much care in his eyes as he gently pets its fur and listens to it purr, trekking back home to ask Bruce if you can keep it.

Or just them being silly siblings, Jason playfully punching Dick's shoulder while Dick ruffles Jason's hair, Tim and Damian having the stupidest competitions over who can eat cereal the fastest, or who can learn a new move first.

Fun things :]

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cassandracain52 · 2 days

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Damian Wayne has a metal spine

Ok so I’ve talked about Damian having his spine replaced three times on this page and every time I’ve gotten a surplus of people confused about when/how that happened

so in the interest of saving time, I’m going to give a brief synopsis of the entire event. (All comic panels are from comic issues Batman and Robin (2009) TBD 1 Part 2 - Batman and Robin (2009) TBD 2 Part 2) Funnily enough this happens in the same time period that Tim lost his spleen aka When Bruce Is Lost In Time

(!Warning! There will be talk of the G*nt M*rr*s*n Talia character assassination as this happens during that run)

Alright so the whole thing first starts when Damian is shot repeatedly in the back by a villain named “Flamingo” and loses the feeling in his lower body

Because Damian is paralyzed, Dick and Alfred take him back to his mother to be treated

There is where we see Talia arranging for Damian to have his entire spine replaced by a synthetic one

The surgery works but Damian still can’t walk for a few weeks

Oh and I can’t forget to mention that before Alfred and Damian leave, Talia has this lovely conversation-

Here she very clearly vocalizes that since Bruce is dead, Damian has no reason to stay in Gotham and that she wants him to come back home.

Damian refuses to be a weapon used against the Bats and Talia -very suspiciously might I add- just lets him leave

We later find out the reason she didn’t put up much fight to keep Damian in her care was actually because his new spine was laced with tiny machines that allowed for someone to merge with his nervous system and control his actions

of course we find this out when Damian appears to randomly attempt to murder Dick for no apparent reason

Talia then gives control over Damian to Slade -freakin’- Wilson. Arguably the worst possible person to give this control to right below Ra’s Al Ghul himself

Slade to absolutely no one’s surprise, appears to have agreed to this strictly so he can try to kill Dick. Dick ends up figuring out that it’s Slade (after the man makes Damian yell “SlaDe” in a truly brilliant reveal) and thinks of a way to free Damian

Unfortunately his solution is to shock the crap out of Damian’s nervous system because -and I quote- “Your heart can take it, but his?”

He proceeds to more or less give this poor kid electro shock therapy and zap Slade into releasing his hold on Damian. (No hate to Dick it was a time sensitive situation but yikes Damian can’t catch a break)

It works and the connection between Damian and Slade is severed. (Yay??? I guess??)

Batman and Robin then return to the cave where Damian promptly declares he needs to see his Mother right now and Dick agrees but comes with him

Dick quickly finds the machine that they had been using to control Damian and promptly smashes it to pieces. (As he should)

Damian however goes straight to Talia to talk about her -ya know- putting a bunch of robots in his back

the conversation goes as well as you’d expect it to and Talia then reveals that “Oh btw, I’m growing another Damian cause you’re flawed”

She also offers Damian one last chance to reconsider and come back to the League.

Because he’s not completely crazy Damian of course refuses which prompts Talia to do this-

Just straight up disowns Damian right there.

This then starts everything to do with Heretic and all that and Damian’s eventual death (G*nt M*rrs*s*n you are truly my biggest opp)

But that’s not important here, what’s important is that while it can no longer be used to control him, Damian still has the metal spine!

Hope this cleared things up for anyone who was confused/didn’t know about it!🖤

#Damian Wayne’s metal spine #Dc comics #talia al ghul #grant morrison if I ever catch you it’ll be on sight #dick grayson #batman and robin #damian wayne #Hope this was helpful #Just imagine the chronic pain that would cause

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jojosquires · 3 days

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So, the next chapter of "Dizzy Edges" is actually not the doozy chapter I thought it would be. I'm doing a small (I'm limiting myself to 3,500 words) chapter following Tim in the (slightly) distant aftermath of Ch. 26. He's going on a field trip! Then, it'll be time for the big chapter that may destroy my brain (parallel Dick and Tim POVs as they have one-on-one conversations with two guest characters--can you guess who?)

BUT... I found this note in my phone and I think it's a pretty good breakdown of Helena, Dick, and their relationship to Tim in this story (makes sense because I wrote both the note-which I forgot existed-and the story). Helena isn't a terrible caretaker... She's just not equipped to be what *Tim* needs all the time (~sometimes~ her ability to just let things go actually *is* a benefit to Tim...) He's pretty good at balancing himself out of given time and a little space to think things through. Even in RR he's fully aware he sounds crazy and he might be wrong... He's got some level of self-awareness even if he ignores it.

So, here's the note and I hope it helps make sense of a few things that have happened:

Helena is fighting for Tim but in the way she *thinks* he needs her to: taking down crime, with prejudice, in Gotham. The reason she got to know him in the first place is because the usual systems *failed* this kid so she has to work outside of them to *fix* things on his behalf. It's an intentional parallel that she *leaves* at night to fight the problems that plagued him and he *left* at night to escape those problems. He had to leave to find comfort, by leaving she (accidentally) isolates him *from* comfort and stability so he finds himself wandering the city again looking for things to do to take his mind off... Just everything. Tim appreciates her dedication and is aligned in her goal to protect the innocent (even if he disagrees on her methods). But she isn't fighting *for* him the way he actually needs her to (just by being there to listen and being open/honest with him).

Dick is fighting *for* Tim... He wants to protect Tim and that's his number one goal when he thinks of Tim. Long-term goal may be to fix/break the system, but short-term he's concerned with Tim's well-being (physical and mental). He wants him to keep existing yes, but he also just *needs* Tim around. His support and his jokes and even that incessant little head tilt. He listens to Tim and remembers what he says and values his steadiness and adaptability. He keeps showing up when Tim is out looking for a distraction, for comfort. If Tim asked Dick to stop doing something on his behalf, he would because he's fighting for Tim in this scenario and he actually listens to what Tim says he needs (even if Tim is wrong about that).

Helena loves Tim like a brother (genuinely), but that means she thinks she knows best what he needs and doesn't ask Tim what that might be. Dick *is* Tim's brother and he trusts him to make the right call when it matters. He'll catch him if he falls. That's the difference. Helena would kill for him, Dick would *spare* someone because Tim asked him to. And Tim would ask him to stop to save *Dick* from having to grapple with the guilt and the consequences of a choice like that. They're each other's life raft and lighthouse. Saving each other and guiding each other in the storm. Each is the other's biggest supporter and, honestly, one of their most trusted advisors.

Sorry if this isn't interesting. But if you stumbled across this by accident maybe give the first few chapters of this weird and overly long story a go.

Either way, I hope you have a great day (or night).

#ao3 batfam fanfic #batfam #batfamily #tim drake #dick grayson #helena bertinelli #I have thoughts and they come out a lot and I think I miss literary analysis #Some day I'll write a completely unrelated essay about Usopp Zoro and water 7/enneis lobby in one piece because... there's something there

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epiphainie · 1 day

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I’m sure uve seen the news that lone star is ending after season five and grace isn’t coming back for the last season. The cancellation news brought up a discussion that I think was quite interesting and wanted to know ur thoughts 👀

Someone mentioned that Tim must’ve known or had an idea that season five would be lone stars last and with that, the 911 franchise (even tho they’re on diff networks, they’re still under Disney) would lose their only remaining mlm couple, tarlos, (pre bucktommy going canon) after they already lost Mavid from the original series.

And that brought tim to the og and deciding, along with TPTB, to explore a queer storyline with one of the two characters, buck or eddie. Eddie didn’t work out for whatever creative reasons so they went with buck. (( Basically, bi buck was never about buddie [as we’ve know lol], queer eddie being suggested was never about a future queer eddie storyline, and tim doesn’t plan on exploring a queer storyline with both characters, just one and that happened to be buck in the end))

We have all of this, coupled with the mention from oliver of hoping bucktommy could be like tarlos, and just the general care he’s put into bringing back a LI that ticks off all these boxes (is his own character, has the potential to have relationships outside of his relationship with buck, etc), so I can’t help but think that bucktommy was planned from the beginning to be a long term relationship.

Of course they left room to see audience reaction to the couple and the general storyline, but they still took the care to write a story that could extend beyond what we’ve seen in the past with either buck or eddie’s love interests so that if the reception was indeed a good one, they could move forward with the same relationship.

And now that they can see that the response has been largely positive, they’re moving full steam ahead *hopefully* to tell a great love story and tommy’s inclusion in the last two episodes definitely shows that.

Hey anon,

Hm yeah, all of this sounds very plausible to me. I think with Tarlos soon gone, having a male queer character in the og show became more of a real plan than just a passing idea and they decided on Buck as the most tenable choice. We know Tim said during the conception of the cruise arc - with not being able to get Lucy's actress back - he thought of Lou/Tommy. I think the thought process was "okay now we have a pilot - oh wait this could work for the bi Buck storyline we're planning as well" because one of the things he said was how he didn't want to just have a new random gay character to couple up with Buck. He specifically mentioned how it was hard to bring the previous LIs into the rest of the show organically and how it was even hard with Abby in the first season and that's why he wrote Maddie as Buck's sister. They wanted this LI to have a standing chance. That gives me the impression that they were at least hoping BuckTommy would get a positive response and they could treat the relationship as a long-term possibility. The initial four-eps were a test ride, not a he will only be here for four episodes. I think by the time they were writing/shooting 7x06, they were already committed to extending this to at least s8.

#mimi talks #bucktommy

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kolbasos · 2 days

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Tim questions 6, 7 and 8😼

first of all thank u for asking!! its an honor❤️‼️

6. What's something you have in common with this character?

WELL... I suppose i can answer this having my perception of Tim in mind.

He has trauma, Jack involved one, but here's the thing. Tim isnt the one to confront it, sure he aknowledges it a little, but to reflect and grow from it fully? He is, in my mind, a person who keeps all his feelings deeeeep inside of him, bottling it all up, disregarding it to the extreme. He has a vague sense of self, dissociating constantly, living in some kind of auto pilot mode. And Jack stuff, he let this all happen willingly, out of self sabotage and or not caring at all (he really doesnt care, not about jack not even about his damn self). So yeah! We kinda share that 😭

7. What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you like?

I really like when people dive deeep into his character, trying to paint him humane, flawed, deeply broken. As he is, actually, but it saddens me that i get to see it rarely. Once i do find something like that, its the purest joy

8. What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you despise?

Ohhh ohoho well!!! I cant say i "despise" smth but im not digging all soft and cutesy portrais of him. Sure, he is silly and whimsical in some sence but ID LOVE TO see more. The ugliness of it all, his darkest most sinister side, that all people, esp. in borderlands universe have. Those slimey, nasty, deeply thoubling intrusive thoughts he must have. His hatered, immense guilt, shame!

Timothy has SUCH great potential to explore. And ofc its all MY personal tastes and takes, if people see him differently and porstray as such i have nothing against, yall do you boos ❤️

GOSH this was really fun! Thank you towerartt again! Not enough words to describe how i deeply appreciate this and ur wonderful contribution to the fandom. Ur the best 😭❤️

HAVE SOME TIMOTHY SKETCHES ON THE HOUSE

#ask #borderlands #lots of text #my thoughts #kinda embarrassing to post all this but! if others can why not me #hope its fine #and readable lol

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halfdeadfullgay · 12 hours

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The Adventures of a Cat and Her Stray

Ao3

Summary: Selina wants to make sure that the world doesn’t fail the stray as it had failed her. She hopes she can do better for the stray.

Danny wants a family again after having to leave amity but he is too scared of what could help to those he gets close to.

They both must learn how to accept that someone genuinely cares for them and eventually relearn how to be a part of a family again.

AN: This is inspired by a dpxdc idea/prompt that I posted on Tumblr. It came from rewatching Batman Returns and thinking that Selina Kyle is slightly ghostly it in. None of the other Tim Burton interpretations of Batman characters will be in the fic, just his version of Catwoman.

Catwoman didn’t have a grave. Even if she did, there was nothing to bury and no one would visit. However she did have the spot in the alley where she had fell. It was an unmarked grave like most of the ones in gotham.

It was a simple little thing. A small cat statuette stood along the wall, occasionally a flower was left with and always some food for the alley cats. No one really messed with it, some even left little trinkets. She had no clue, the theory she thought of was that it was a way to avoid getting robbed, like an offering.

She let be it, mainly cause it was people who the world had also failed that were leaving the “offerings”. The people seemed to respect it and she quickly became as cryptic as the Bat. Speaking of the Bat, he didn’t seem to like it as much as she did but they never really did see eye to eye much.

Catwoman listened to the paranoia that ever so slightly slipped through his voice and rolled her eyes. She paid it no mind, she knew that he wouldn’t mess with it unless something actually did call for it. She just continued life as much as she could otherwise.

Selina got a new job under a somewhat better boss along with a new apartment. Robbery and knowing Bruce helped a lot when it came to money but even so, she still wanted to support herself. Life was good for a while or as well as it could be for a woman who had died multiple times.

That was until Selina had started to hear rumors that someone had stolen from Catwoman, someone had stolen from her grave. Someone had stolen her grave marker.

Catwoman had a new item to go after.

Danny needed to run and run he did. It would’ve been easier to fly but he needed to stay under the radar. He fled where Clockwork instructed him to. A cursed city that had ecto, not as much as Amity but just enough. Clockwork helped a bit, mainly slowing down time for just a minute, it wasn’t much but that was all he could do.

He had to say bye to his friends and sister. He couldn’t contact them, too paranoid about them being caught talking to a ghost. Danny didn’t want any of this. He only wanted to be a normal kid but he died and came back. He became his town’s hero although most just saw him as a villain because of the GIW.

Danny was now in Gotham where he didn’t know anyone and had no clue where to go from there. So he stayed in his ghost form for the most part. It was a easy way of avoiding the need to eat, the same with feeling the cold but he could only stay in that form for so long before it started to affect his human one.

Nails got a bit shaper, the same with teeth but that was less noticeable compared to how his eyes began to reflect like a cats. That was less easy to hide but everyone in Gotham seemed to have bigger problems and didn’t really do a second take when his eyes would reflect.

He kept his head down and tried to survive the streets. That’s when he started to get sent on errands for Clock Work, being told that it was just to keep him busy and said errands usually helped others as well. Danny couldn’t really argue against that plus it was an excuse to explore Gotham more.

Most errands just consisted of returning stolen things to the dead, occasionally passing on messages and once in a while; helping a newly formed ghost.

This was like any other errand. Someone stole from an unmarked grave and he was set to return what had been stolen. In this case, it was a cat statuette. Simple enough compared to others. He went out and started looking. Hopefully he could find the statuette before whoever the unmarked gave belonged to would notice.

The statuette was easy to find. The thief had the audacity to pawn it. Catwoman quietly entered the pawn shop. It seemed like a small business, so she planned only getting what was hers back. There were minimal security measures, just an alarm that she was able to disarm quickly.

She was in the shadows, about to pounce and take what’s hers but that was stopped when the hairs on the back of her neck stood up. Not in fear but surprise. A wisp of blue breath broke through the air near where her statuette was. A pair of eyes snapped at her direction, reflecting in the slight light like a cat.

Slowly, she watched as a young teen moved close to the statuette. She stepped out of the shadows, quietly watching the teenager as they watched her back. A stray probably. They held up the statuette in her direction and tilted their head slightly.

“Gonna assume this belongs to you?”

#The Adventures of a Cat and Her Stray #danny phantom #dpxdc #fanfic #cross posted on ao3 #ghost prince danny #catwoman #selina kyle #tim burton!catwoman #none of the other batman characters are #the tim burton version

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oifaaa · 1 year

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Re: Tim Drake red hood. So I agree but you shouldn’t flame tim’s self insert fanfics don’t like don’t read smh tim can’t be cool at all in canon let him have his au ooc fanfic

I refuse if Tim actually believes he could do the whole red hood thing better then Jason then his classiest ass needs to get humbled

#ask #anon #He needs to understand #That just bc he reverses the order #Doesn't instantly give him the same story as Jason #Like to be pedantic for a second #That's a role swap #Not a reverse Robin au #I WILL NOT REST TIL PEOPLE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE #And even in role swaps you have to be creative to figure out how to keep these characters in character while giving them a different role #The lack of creativity really gets me so much with reverse Robin aus #It's the one in character thing about Tim #No creativity #Not a single creative bone in that boys body

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warpedpuppeteer · 21 days

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It's interesting how Buck's love interests are all written in a way that ends because of the reason they meet/happen in the first place and then of course, we have Eddie.

Abby, who changes Buck's view of a healthy relationship but then turns around and ghosts him, making him wait for months on end and letting him realize she's not coming back on his own.

Ali, who meets Buck during a dangerous situation in his line of work and then leaves him for how dangerous his work is.

Taylor, who lashes out at Buck for using her as a fake date and saying she thought she could trust Buck to be a friend who then ends up using him for her career and chose to put his friends in danger.

Natalia, who's there to help him embrace and deal with his temporary death but it leads to their break up because of the constant talk surrounding death when Buck's not comfortable with it.

We can't confirm for Tommy till it ends but it's important to note how he offers to get Buck into his interests like flying and muay thai yet doesn't show effort with Buck's interests like dressing up according to the bachelor party theme despite Buck being stressed about it. And we also have the fact that the entire reason they got together was due to Buck's jealousy for Eddie which he then claims to be was for Tommy. Makes me think they are either going to end because of differing interests OR because of the jealousy issue popping up again.

Funnily enough, every scene above has an Eddie parallel:

Eddie co-parents with Buck and not only does this not stop after a dangerous event but Eddie also has Buck down as a legal guardian (healthy relationship - Abby).

Eddie is in the same dangerous line of work and they have each other's backs. This happens right off the bat too.(dangerous job - Ali).

The Lawsuit era and The Dispatch era - both where they "betray" each other but manage to work through it (betrayal/lie - Taylor).

Eddie doesn't pressure Buck to talk about his temporary death until Buck's ready and is more focused about him living than in his death (death doula - Natalia).

Eddie who has different interests than Buck (poker, basketball and UFC/MMA) but also manages to show interest and actively takes part in whatever Buck comes up with; he suggests their outfit for the themed party AND ends up staying there for Buck even when others leave (different hobbies & showing interest/taking part - Tommy).

Absolutely fascinating when you start noticing that Buck's relationships keep failing for one reason or another and then we have him and Eddie who face the same sort of situations but they still come out of it stronger together.

It's clear that there's a reason Buck is able to overcome anything when it comes to Eddie (that conversation with Maddie about being there for each other even at their worst 👀) and we've already established that everything Eddie looks for in a partner is already something he has found in Buck. So really, all that's left is for them to realize that hey, the one I'm looking for is right in front of me! 🤷🏽

And yes, it's been said to death (hah) but you don't find it son you make it. And Buck and Eddie have already made it.

#character meta #relationship meta #think whatever you want it's up to you #but narratively tommy is a plot device #there's no if's or but's about it #I'm saying it like it is #the parallels between Buck's LIs and Eddie is insane #i just thought about making one about it since we mostly talk about how Buck fills all the things Eddie needs in a partner #this is my interpretation of how they've basically written themselves into a corner and the only possible way to go forward is with Buddie #doing anything else is a disservice to the characters and narrative so far #as Tim said #it's only natural and this is it #buck and eddie just naturally embody the ideal partner for each other #tim minear if you make me go through another destiel i will actually personally come and eat your kneecaps i can't do it anymore bro #it's literally all there!!#it's a masterpiece #i don't trust you enough but in Oliver ryan and jlh i trust #buddie #911 abc #eddie diaz #evan buckley #evan buck buckley #911 spoilers #I'm too lazy to tag all the characters because they're unimportant #the entire point of the post is Buck's LI vs Eddie anyways #so there

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secretly-a-catamount · 23 days

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tim drake would rather die than kill innocent people and tim drake killed hundreds of supervillain henchpeople with long-range detonation explosives that one time are two separate headcanons that, contrary to what the fandom discourse would have you believe, can actually coexist at the same time.

there’s even a psychologist term for it.

it’s called compartmentalization!

#let’s be honest #the entire batfamliy “stuffers” from this #and while that’s not something generally talked about #I just find the concept so interesting #how they all justify their actions — both socially moral and socially in-moral — to themselves #particularly how they all justify their actions to themselves in different ways #and for more evidence about their compartmentalization: there’s obviously the fact that they all have superhero and civilian identities too #also #this might need to be a separate post #but #the fandom’s perception of each member of the batfamily as individuals #often read more like they have bought into the characters’s “masks” they wear due to trauma #the “masks” being how the batfam are completely willing to be only perceived as one-thing #because that’s easier than being a real human #with blood and pain and fears and failures #they’d much rather be #the nice one #or the funny one #or the smart one #(etc. etc.)#dc #dc comics #dc characters #batman comics #batfam #the batfamily #tim drake #robin #robin dc #red robin

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slightly-depressed-sloth · 5 months

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Whenever ppl imply Damian would be homophobic I just kinda assume they're either new to comics or have some internal biases to work out cause I don't know who they're talking about but it isn't my boy Damian ultimate-over-invested-ally Wayne

#not mr showed up to a enbys house at midnight to teach them how to deck a transphobe #not mr had to be physically restrained from decking the transphobe himself by jon #you could not PAY that boy to stay away from pride comics be fr #just know he hated when Tim came out cause he was like dammit now I respect smth about Drake #tim: do you have a problem with me being bi? damian: you being bi is the only thing ive ever respected about you #my boy shows up in pride anthologies more often than like any of the comfirmed queer characters put some respect on his name #he is not helping ppl come out and reconnect left right and center just for yall to imply he'd be a homophobe #he is leading the damn parade #slightlyslothspeaks #batfam #damian wayne #no one does it like him

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bitterrobin · 1 month

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I see a lot of confusion on why calling Damian Wayne "feral" is racist/problematic, so here's a rundown.

There's a difference between calling your child or your younger sibling "feral" and calling a character like Damian "feral." You know your child/sibling/niece/nephew etc. They're real people, and unless they have a problem with it personally, then there's nothing wrong with calling them feral as a joke. It doesn't (shouldn't) affect their perceptions by other people. It doesn't become a label that follows them.

Damian al Ghul-Wayne is a fictional character. A canonically mixed Arab/Chinese/Jewish White character with a history connected to some of the most prominent Arab comic book characters, who themselves also get insanely mischaracterized.

He's constantly whitewashed. He's been written with racist undertones (the suicide bomber vest). He's had his character development and progress backtracked time and time again by DC. DC treats him weirdly most days and completely shitty in the worst stories.

A good majority of fanon hasn't done any better than DC. You cannot pat yourselves on the back for being more inclusive or mental health aware than DC when you call a mixed Arab/Chinese boy "feral". It's constant. You can come up with various titles and nuances for every Bat-character, for every Robin.

Tim can be smart, a skater, a genius, the one holding everyone together, the little brother, the one who needs love. Jason can be cool, morally "right" or "wrong", unstable, PTSD-stricken, the one who was betrayed, the one with Shakespearean tragedies. Dick can be fun, happy, the first one, the prodigal son, the one with complicated history and the big brother.

You give them room for exploration. Love and care and attention and research. Many headcanons. You either comply with canon or you don't, but there's substance to their character.

What does Damian get? He's feral. He's rabid. He's a gremlin. He can't be reasoned with. He has no self-control, he's impulsive. He's hurt others, and you can't forgive it. Sometimes he's homophobic. Or classist. Or plain mean and rude to your favorite boy. He's always carrying a sword. A psychopath with no regard for another's well-being (usually Tim in a lot of fics). He can't be taught what's right.

I've seen people cry that Damian needs to punished or kicked out or treated the same way he's treated others. He needs to be brutalized or talked down to. He can never grow as a person, because he's mean to Tim or Jason, and you need him to exist as the abuser. His first move is always violent.

Fanon compares him to an animal often; he bites, claws, hisses, growls. Bruce or Dick or Jason or Tim have to wrangle him, tame him, civilize him the white man's way in lieu of his brown mother and grandfather who "clearly" raised him wrong. You don't see the issue with that? The issue with always labeling one of the few major brown characters in Batman comics as the unreasonable animal? That the child of color is always the abuser, the instigator, to older characters?

And even if you don't see him this way, you don't write him this way - then are you giving him the care and attention you give for other Bat characters?

Do you know anything else about him other than his "anger"? Because he isn't always angry. In fact, he's typically well-mannered. Quiet even, when he's not being provoked. DC's writing will always vary but whenever Damian lashes out, he's usually written with a reason to act the way he does.

Are you making him intelligent like he should be? A hard believer in redemption? A neglected and abused child who isn't meek or crying or closes himself within? Are you willing to explore that he's always exhibited the "wrong" kind of trauma responses - lashing out, being snippy, ruining relationships, refusing to admit weakness?

Do you write anything about him without making his mother and grandfather comically abusive and violent? Will you give him the supporting cast/friends he actually has? Can you write his dad/siblings interacting with him without making them white saviors or therapy pets? Can you write him without a ship or his love for animals or being vegetarian overshadowing everything?

Is he a character to you at all other than a glorified plot device with a sharp tongue and the convenience of being violent?

#damian wayne #dc #robin #damian wayne meta #dc meta #fandom needs to start interrogating their choices around non-white characters in general but especially when it comes to Batman comics #you may not intend to be racist or ableist or misinformed #but what you put out into the world is going to be seen by everyone #and you should very much reconsider doing things like calling Damian feral and implying he has zero self-control or civilization #or implying Duke is uneducated by hc'ing him with terrible handwriting or making him the “sane” one bc you haven't read any comics w him #or shoving Cassandra into a corner as a perfect unvocal specimen or making her a sentient therapy animal for your favorite white boy #or sexualizing Dick in obscene amounts and making him a “slut” when its against his entire character #its day in day out in this fandom when it comes to snubbing and being utterly wrong about characters of color #fandom critical #a painted bird called tamer #batman #batman meta #tim drake #jason todd #dick grayson #cassandra cain #batfamily

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silverwhittlingknife · 9 days

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hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?

GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE

Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.

I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:

Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?

We're gonna go in chronological order!

Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:

Aww. Such a cute elephant!

Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!

Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:

SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.

(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)

Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:

Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.

Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.

Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:

Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:

... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.

Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.

For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.

Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.

Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?

tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later

Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!

The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.

(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)

Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.

By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.

So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)

Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do

Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.

(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)

The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.

Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."

But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.

Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)

Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!

(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)

Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.

Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.

Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.

So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.

And look, here we are:

Aww.

Whew - that's everything I could find!

Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3

#dick grayson #anyone with more info feel free to chime in & we can crowdsource <3 #i do think the toy elephant is awfully cute though <3 #total digression but i was thinking about it as i was writing:#i'm fascinated by the ways that the post-crisis batboys & their stories can intersect with 90s masculinity and all its issues with stoicism #and i'm pro-queering and gender-bending - 90s comics were a total boys' club so i think it's neat that transformative fandom isn't #but i do love 90s masculinity and All Its Issues too & one of the things i find compelling about the dick-tim-bruce trio #& especially dick's place in it - is the unspoken hierarchy whereby bruce is manlier than dick & dick is manlier than tim #and so dick's in the middle as this somewhat softer-character who aspires to be a harsher & more stoic & ultimate manly-man character #caught in the middle between robin & batman & what each role represents #and like. batman is both manhood & the only desirable thing to be AND ALSO it represents this immense narrowing of possibility #because so much of stereotypical masculinity is about reducing the range of emotions you're allowed to have or express #and dick is both incredibly conflicted about bruce AND wants to be just like him & by extension is conflicted about masculinity writ large #so a lot of dick's interactions with tim veer between trying on a frat-boy-ish 'I'm The Manly Guy' persona vs. giving up on it #or trying on imitations of Bruce's Batman persona but also trying to backtrack out of it bc he doesn't like how it feels etc etc #ANYWAY i think what i am trying to say is that if tim had a stuffed animal dick would be entertained & poke mild fun at him #and call him 'teddy' for the next hour or something while tim got increasingly defensive about how the teddy bear was steph's #and/or about how the teddy bear was OLD and tim doesn't even care about it and also WHATEVEr i'm above this #and to an uninformed observer this might look like bullying BUT ACTUALLY #this ritual would IN FACT be very reassuring to both of them + tim would feel WAY better afterward than if dick had ignored it #because by poking fun at him dick shows he still respects tim enough to tease him thus subtextually exorcising the threat of wimpiness #plus allowing tim to defend himself & demonstrate that he can take a joke so they've both reaffirmed their masculinity to each other #& they don't have to be scared of the teddy bear and all it represents anymore #however also afterward dick would have a brief nostalgic flashback to when he was a kid & had a teddy bear & feel weird about the memory #because he would be unable to articulate to himself that what he misses is a past when he allowed himself to be vulnerable #anyway this wouldn't actually happen in comics but it's what would happen in my soul. you know.#ask tag #zitka

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scintillyyy · 2 months

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also i think there's a tendency to cherrypick tim's moments of morally grey thought musings as a gotcha for the idea that tim is totally cool with murder and just one bad day away from shanking someone only kept in line by the "rules", when in reality. tim's thoughts of moral greyness, the ruminations on what they're doing and why they're doing it the way they do and why they can't cross the line they set. he's not. alone in that. like. at ALL. dick has reckoned with wanting to kill someone (sigh. the joker). dick lowkey didn't want to give someone a chance at redemption simply because he hurt bruce (bane). bruce has thought about killing (and almost killed) both the joker & black mask. bruce is very frequently ruminating on his role and why he can't kill even if he wants to. barbara has very seriously considered killing and has wanted to kill. cassandra has killed and used that as the basis of her staunch belief that nobody dies tonight, but she's also still in frequent conversation with what that means ethically and morally. tim having doubts or trying to remind himself why they do what they do or debating their rules to himself is not some grand outlying abnormality here, it's par for the fucking course.

#barbara almost headshotted black mask but tim made a joke about using guns he's clearly barely refraining from killing someone /s #sorry. just. it's like tim always gets called out for this in particular and he's not even the worst offender #this is fucking gun batman's fault isn't it. he's my worst enemy for a reason and the worst mistake ever #was bringing him back after the one stupid story like he's some kind of inevitability when the point #is that tim would genuinely rather die than become him.#don't talk to me about that guy (gun batman) i hate him #anyways the point is that they're all in conversation with themselves about why they do what they do #it's actually super important that they are! because it's very human to want to go against your morals if it seems easier #and the point is that it takes strength of character to make a conscious choice to do what you think is right #even when it's hard and it's the last thing you want to do

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poopypeepyp · 4 days

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"jason todd would make a good azrael" what if the world was made of pudding

#azrael is like. closed species. you cant just be one you need to be linked to the order of st. Dumas or order of purity #sorry but how do you misunderstand both jason and jean paul this bad? how do you come up with this #i dont even understand where is this coming from #even jason's aesthetics dont match azrael at all😂 what do you mean he wants to change his vigilante name because of the connection to joker #red hood is perfect for jason. its ironic and witty and perfect for tormenting batman #jason is self destructive and dramatic he was giggling coming up with that #it's so disregarding to both characters it's not even funny. what if welly wast was flamebird. what if #like can you name 5 things about azrael do you actually care about what azrael is and who azrael is or are you just saying stuff #no jason would not make a great azrael but jean paul valley would. michael lane would #what if insert bat character was a green lantern slash immortal slash magic user slash an alien slash anything but normal human what if #“serving as a protector of gothams worst neighborhoods” neither azrael nor jason do that unfortunately #jason todd #red hood #batman #batman comics #batfam #batfamily #dc comics #azrael #azrael dc #bruce wayne #tim drake #dick grayson #damian wayne #batboys #you should be required to name 5 things about azrael or jpv before posting something about azrael #ok lets say jason is azrael. wheres jean paul then lol what happened to him #jean paul valley

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nylongenesis · 7 months

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Here’s the thing about Timothy stoker

here it is the tim post

People who say tim is an asshole are partially correct.

People who say tim is ‘toxic’ are INCORRECT.

I am very strongly about this because. listen to me. okay.

SPOILERS UP TO TMA SEASON 3 AHEAD

Imagine BEING timothy stoker. After whats probaboy the secondmost traumatizing experience of your life in which you almost die if not by the worms then by the MEDICAL EMERGENCY (respiratory acidosis is a medical emergency :3) your body was put into- plagued with nightmares and the pain of your body being covered in holes and your medical issues, you come back to the archives expecting to see your best friend, That will make it all better. It’ll be so worth it once you can see her again.

And then she acts so distant. And you dont know why.

And you have just lost your friendship. The one that’s kept you going this whole time. The one you were starting to believe might have been unbreakable. And you Don’t. Know. Why.

Eventually after many failed attempts to reconnect, you resign yourself to the fact that she just got tired of you. That you were right this whole time. That she just pitied you. You still don’t know what you did wrong and it’s eating you alive, but she won’t tell you, so you have to settle with pretending to be glad that she’s at least alive, All while your boss is literally going insane and STALKING YOU???

Only to find out after a YEAR of believing you were just unlovable that this person? The person youve been trying to ‘reconnect’ with? That isnt your best friend, Your best friend dies and you never noticed. How could you not notice? But when you see the real picture of her she feels like a stranger and you realize you have no fucking escape from your horrible, unforgivable sin of forgetting your friend. Because no matter what you do, trying to look back at your memories, that *thing* is there instead. You can’t even enjoy your memories before she died.

So you sit there, alone and afraid. Angry, grieving, everything else. What are you supposed to do but make the thing that has haunted you since the disappearance of your Brother feel the kind of pain it is making you feel?

Tim isn’t toxic. Hell I wouldn’t even say he’s that much of an asshole.

He’s a hurt child.

Mentally, especially in season three, he’s having the equivalent of a child’s breakdown. The kind they have when they don’t know how to express the emotions they’re feeling. These emotions- this grief, this anger, this pain- it’s so big, it’s so much, and he feels so small, so incapable and weak, and he cannot properly handle it. He cannot cope. Especially since he’s still somewhat trapped in who he was when his brother was taken.

Now im not saying the way he went about this is at all great, but yknow. Everyone forgives reactions to trauma until they’re personally inconvenient or ugly.

Tim lost everything, and honestly i would be pretty damn similar if I was in his position! That’s DEVASTATING.

In the end, there’s such a horrible tragedy to his entire character that goes almost entirely unnoticed unless you’re like me and you’re insane and overanalyze someone based on one word in an extra audio thats not in the podcast.

Anyways, that’s why I love Tim.

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