#senti bubbler

[camelots-rose]

The fact Gabriel a child abuser, that took part in a murder(Shanghai special), almost murdered an entire family small children included(Senti bubbler), threatened to start World War 3 (new york) and has been terrorizing Paris for over a year not only gets hailed as a hero but gets his crimes buried by Ladybug meanwhile Chloe a child that has done far less than him not only gets treated like the devil incarnated but is sent off to live with her abuser as a 'just' punishment is quite frankly disturbing

#chloe bourgeois #gabriel agreste #ml spoilers #miraculous season 5 spoilers #ml season finale #ml season finale spoilers #marinete dupain cheng #ml gabriel agreste #S5 finale spoilers #ml chloe bourgeois #chloe bourgoeis #ml writers salt #ml finale #mlb #mlb season 5 #miraculous ladybug #thomas astruc #thomas astruc salt #chloé bourgeois #ml #queen bee #Hawkmoth #monarch #shadow moth #ml critical #ml writer critical #ml writing criticism #ml criticism #shadowmoth

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I actually thought that Adrien and Gabriel's relationship seemed like it might have been possible to salvage in the early seasons. What do you think?

@tallwriter Starting a new post since this one was getting super long as this is a different topic.

The problem with Gabriel Agreste's character is that they very clearly wanted to write a sympathetic villain - you can tell that from how the show handles his death - but sympathetic villains don't work if you make them cartoonishly evil. You have to handle the situation with nuance and delicacy, especially when one of the main heroes is the villain's son.

Gorizilla is not a perfect episode by any means, but it does showcase how Gabriel should have been written if they wanted him to come across as complex and sympathetic. In that episode, Gabe thinks that Adrien is Chat Noir and, because there's no way to magically force Adrien to reveal himself or confess his secrets, Gabriel has to come up with a situation where Adrien would be forced to transform of his own free will (since that can't be overwritten with a ring or something crazy like that). Which is how we get Adrien hurtling to his death while his father looks on:

Adrien: Always! (jumps out of Gorizilla's hand, and over the side of the building) Yeah-ha! Hawk Moth:(from his lair) No! ... Hawk Moth:(from his lair) If indeed you are Cat Noir, then transform, son. Please. (Adrien continues to fall downward, resolutely remaining as he is) Come on, son! (Ladybug looks down at Adrien, then raises her head, eyes closed.) Ladybug: Cat Noir, help!! Hawk Moth:(from his lair, to Gorizilla) Drop Ladybug!

This is good writing. Yes, Gabe's plan was kind of dumb (you live with Adrien, dude, just bug his room), but if we accept that this was the only way to go about a forced reveal - and that does seem to be the writer's logic - then we see a situation where Gabriel put his son above winning. A situation where he's still very much the villain, but he's not a dastardly, cold-hearted one. He does love his son.

There are actually several of these moments in the first three seasons. Some involve Adrien and many more involve Nathalie. It's why season five's claim that Gabe put beating Ladybug above everything else rings hollow. He never actually did that outside of Evolution (S5E1). He's almost always been loved-ones first when it really counts, a thing that Ladybug uses against him in the final when she tries to crush Emilie. The whole "Ladybug obsession" thing truly feels like something they just made up for that one episode to justify Nathalie "turning sides" aka doing nothing useful beyond maintaining the status quo (hey, they needed someone to keep the senti plot from having consequences and it wasn't like she was doing anything useful anyway!)

The problem is that this "loved ones first" mentality is only used for big dramatic moments, often as a way to keep Gabriel from winning. It's not Gabriel's main characterization even though it needed to be if you want season five's ending to feel even remotely earned. Going into that ending, we should have all thought that Gabe was a messed up dude who truly did love his son. And, if Gorizilla, Style Queen, and Ladybug had all been examples of his standard characterization, then we would have thought that.

But that's not who the writers told us Gabe was.

Instead, his standard characterization paints him as petty, controlling, and manipulative. Which is wild because there was no reason to do that! Gabe could - and should - have been played as stern and removed, but generally loving when he's outside of the mask. In other words, Gabriel Agreste could be well liked while Hawk Moth was hated.

The crazy thing is that this is such a simple change to make. You either removed the episodes where Gabe's awful parenting is the source of the conflict (ex: Bubbler) or you just make a few minor changes to show that he's conflicted about his actions.

For example, take Chat Blanc, the episode that ruined so many elements of this show! In that episode, Gabe is a total bastard. He happily sacrifices his son's happiness to make an akuma in the form of Marinette and then, when Adrien's secret is revealed, does Gabe have any sort of conflict about traumatizing his son? The kind of conflict we'd expect after episodes like Gorizilla? Nope! He straight up delights in showing Adrien Emilie's... corpse? Comatose form? Whatever! Gabe then akumatizes Adrien with a smile on his face.

That gets the writers a solid F for consistent characterization. It's why I highlighted "almost" in red when I mentioned Gabe's motivation. Because in Ephemeral and Chat Blanc, the writing ignores the sympathetic stuff that characterizes the dramatic moments and goes straight for the worst-father-of-the-year, love-to-hate-him, please-let-him-die-now characterization that we get in most episodes.

If you were writing Chat Blanc's Gabriel to fit his intended complex, sympathetic mold, then you would probably drop the breakup plot or you'd have spent all season setting Marinette up as the perfect akuma target, changing the breakup into something that Gabriel felt that he HAD to do instead of opportunistic evilness. You'd also have Gabe drop a line like, "I'm sorry, Adrien. You'll thank me later" before the Chat Blanc akumatization. Or at least don't have him grinning! Do something, ANYTHING to show that Gabe sees using his son like this as a necessary evil and not a fun time! You know, like how he was begging Adrien to transform during Gorizilla? Almost like Gabe had stopped caring about winning and started just wanting his son to live.

Would these changes make Gabe less of a fun cartoon villain? Yes, but that's the point. Cartoon villains are cartoony. They're over the top. They have no nuance. Sympathetic villains don't work with those characteristics.

The normal way to get around this in a cartoon setting is to have secondary antagonists who can be played as cartoonishly evil. And, confusingly, Miraculous has those characters. Chloe, Sabrina, and Lila have been here since season one (Kim could also have stayed a bully and been added to that list, but he's not a teenage girl, so I get why they didn't do that /s.) Felix has been around since seasons three. Nathalie has been an active villain since season two. Any or all of these characters could be the cartoonish, nuance-less villain while Gabriel stays sympathetic.

Instead, they play Gabe however they want to play him in any given episode, making it so that he's impossible to understand from an audience perspective. I personally like the sympathetic take and think that those are the show's best episodes because I like complex villains. It's even how I write Gabe in my stuff because I go for less cartoony takes on canon.

I don't think a redemption was needed, but a sympathetic villain doesn't require one. All that term means is that you can understand the villain and be sympathetic to their plight. Redemption is optional. In fact, the goal is often not redemption, but an understand that, "there but for the grace of the gods go I." I mean, we've all lost loved ones. Wouldn't the power to bring a loved one back tempt you, too?

If they wanted to go for evil, cartoony Gabe, then they needed to drop all of the complexity and go for a Disney villain type character who gets a Disney villain death a la Scar or Mother Gothel. Don't give Gabe the wish. Let him fall to his own hubris by falling into the water of his secret layer and lading as a puddle of ash while a sad Ladybug looks on, having just failed to save him.

If you want to see an excellent look at how cartoon Gabe could have worked, then I highly recommend @zoe-oneesama's Scarlet Lady comic, which is just nearing its end after a multi-year run. I think it's fair to say that Zoe and I largely agree on canon's flaws, she just fixes them by leaning into the cartoon side of things, creating a hilarious story with lots of heart. Canon could have absolutely gone that way too and worked out wonderfully! The issue is not a lack of nuance, it's that they tried to add nuance without ever fully committing to it, making a story that is the worst of both worlds. While a more serious nuanced reboot would be my ideal dream, a reboot that scraps all of Gabe's nuance and just makes him go full evil would be just as satisfying and Zoe proves that.

#ml season 5 salt #ml salt #ml writing criticism #ml writing critical #Gabriel Agreste deserves better #Gabriel Agreste deserves worse #Gabriel Agreste deserves anything but what canon did with him #Let me love to hate him #Or watch sadly as he ruins his relationship with his son #Just don't give me the mess that is canon

[sweetcloverheart]

Things Adrien will never know since he’s not allowed to find out his father’s Hawkmoth

That Gabriel has purposely gone out of his way to upset Adrien’s friends via unfairly punishing him/limiting his freedom solely so he could have an Akuma to use (”Bubbler” and “Chat Blanc”)

That Gabriel once tricked him into believing he had upset his father so he could akumatize himself and keep him and Ladybug from realizing his real identity (”Collector”)

That after akumatizing Gorilla (“Gorizilla”), that he purposely put Adrien’s life in danger and had him thrown from on top a building just so he could find out if he was actually Chat Noir or not (and only changed his mind after Adrien had been thrown and it looked like he wasn’t about to transform to save himself)

Had noticed via his akuma butterflies when Adrien is upset/depressed but did nothing about it

Openly threatened his cousin (Like, feel how you want about Felix, Gabriel still threatened a child)

Has had Paris nearly flooded/burned down/deleted/eeby-deebied/brainwashed/zombie invaded several times while Adrien was outside the house with no idea if he had gotten/might get caught up in the attack (and not seeming to care)

That the few time he did arrange for Adrien to not be around when he was planning something (NY and Shanghai specials, “Risk”, etc.), it was specifically so he could hurt his friends, and usually done at Adrien’s own expense

That Gabriel almost caused WW3 by threatening the world with nukes (NY special)

That his father murdered someone(Or at least had their murder arranged via a gang hit) (Shanghai special)

That Nathalie’s health dove into the negatives specifically because she was helping him with his supervillainy (Yeah, she chose to become Mayura and everything, but this is still someone Adrien considers family here)

Everything about the Grimoire

Went out of his way to manipulate Chloe in “Heart Hunter” (Again, feel however you want, Gabe still purposely made it so Chloe would think Ladybug didn’t want her so he could get her on his side more easily)

Purposely put Lila and him together so she could “keep an eye on him” at his behest

Was the one who instigated Lila into enacting her plan in “Ladybug”, which ended up with Marinette expelled, and all because he considered her a “bad influence” on Adrien

Had twice Akumatized Adrien after he found out about him being Hawkmoth and his mother’s actual fate, just so he could get Ladybug’s miraculous (“Chat Blanc” and “Ephemeral”), which led to the world ending and everyone being dead in one of these scenarios

Has been magically manipulating him into obeying his will (If Senti!Adrien proves to be canon)

Made a deal with Felix to get all the Miraculous the latter stole ( “Strikeback”)

Deliberately chose to focus on stealing the Miraculous instead of taking the opportunity given to him to save his mother and Nathalie from their respective ailments (“Evolution”)

Purposely had him Cataclysm his arm, and near risking making his son a murderer/orphan (“Destruction”)

Kept the Kwamis he stole/kidnapped in cages and called them “slaves”

That the whole “Alliance Ring” nonsense was specifically to help mask his activities as Hawkmoth

And that he mainly just cares about his rivalry with Ladybug now.

#Miraculous Ladybug #ML Salt #ML Spoilers #MLB Bible Spoilers

[ilikelookingatthings]

Thoughts on Miraculous Ladybug : A Comment from YouTube I'm proud of about themes and Gabriel

and don't get me STARTED on Gabriel. the undercut and sabotaged any nuance this man had for 5 freaking seasons. every time he showed nuance or good feelings, they undercut it by forcing him to do something worse to snuff out any sense of sympathy or complexity, so we know who the bad guy and good guy is. yet they try to ham fist a last-minute redemption?!

don't get me wrong I actually DO want a redeemable complex Gabriel but its VERY confusing and just BAD how they handled it. at the very least they could have made it better if they literally said he was good and genuinely had good intentions to save his wife. after all she was 'missing' which means the plan was to use the wish to wake her up and she could come back using going missing as a cover. He wasn't raising the dead as she was in a magical coma.

he has a fix it as he knew if he lost that the ladybug miraculous would fix things and if he won, he could use the ladybug miraculous to fix any damage he did. by making 'hawkmoth' the villain it means people would have a target outside of the victims and the victims technically have to agree to the powers, so Gabe has the illusion of consent. and his plan to make a villain was to lure the ladybug and chat miraculous out of hiding by forcing them to activate to fix the problem since he couldn't track it down otherwise.

Overall, yes, it's not 'good' but his plan made sense in a way of minimizing damage for just wanting to save his wife. play up the fact they had no one to ask for help since the guardians were gone...from his view he was 'acting' as a villain. he had no training and didn't even have a properly translated book and wasn't chosen for his role.

just point to the fact Gabe has been using his miraculous of emotions wrong. he has been amplifying his own negative emotions to feel others negative emotions and forcing a fixation on the miraculous to get his victims to try to steal them. we have literally seen how even being a little emotionally off can have consequences.

Feast with fu was a rouge Senti-monster that sensed Fu's negative emotions, negative emotions that weren't even a part of why he made the Senti-being (which was to get him some snacks, Marinette's miraculous immediately timing down when she used it to separate Adrien and Chloe instead of attacking bubbler due to her jealousy, how Tikki's snack attack affected Mari when Mari transformed. and how Akuma Victims are prone to making dumb mistakes and you literally can't reason with them properly and act more fixated and aggressive.

they could have fixed the situation by just pointing out as a side effect from using his miraculous the way he was...his personality was literally getting twisted like his Akumas due to using mis miraculous in a way it wasn't supposed to be intended. Even more with how they mention using multiple ones can cause a strain on you and literally make you insane.

that way it would validate the times Gabe was reasonable or genuinely cared as the real him while also validating and explaining all the times he became SO much worse and cartoonishly evil.

while I would have preferred Adrien actually being there in the final battle with hawkmoth..... if they just played up that Mari being more willing to sympathize and see the villians genuinely needed help and weren't just evil was due to adrien's/chat's influence because that is adrien's strength in the show. his sympathy and ability to think deeper on motivations and not just punish and how he helped teach mari to not take things entirely at face value and be more patient.

heck the final battle could have worked if they played up the Mari and gabe are actually genuinely VERY similar. they have LOTS of parallels in the show...

like I think they were going for a parallel to collector/the end of collector when mari went to him to give him the book she took(even if lila took it first) where gabe surprised us by him admiring ehr stepping forward and not being mad at her, even answering her questions and agreeing not to tell adrien when she asked him to keep silent. and a reminder about how gabe did give a genuine apology to adrien at the end of collector when he could have gotten away with not doing so since adrien DID steal the book from his locker...Gabe genuinely apologized in depth.

but because the show had spent most of the season undercutting any goodness in Gabriel again with no explanation to cover it like saying it was the influence of him going insane like his victims due to how he had been using his miraculous....it just feels unearned and messed up. even more if he was going to use the wish...why couldn't he had used it so Nathalie and the mom would be okay? if his plan had always been to use himself in case there was a price how would Mari have reacted?

like I still don't get why she trusted him at all. and because they never mentioned Gabe going insane or his behavior was due to how he handled the miraculous (like Akuma victims)

...it just comes across as Gabe just being genuinely terrible and abusive as him as a default for most of the show which makes the redemption/him fighting his choice WEIRD.

like please for the love of GOD WHY did they not just make it a side effect of using his brooch the way he did literally! it would have used the fact they primed us to sympathize/not judge what people do under the Akuma influence/in the deepest throes of their negative feelings because its prompted by them being twisted by the magic to at least give Gabe a BUFFER(for the audience).

It would make him 'fighting' so to speak, literally him fighting how he had twisted himself literally with the way he used the miraculous...like how people can fight drugs or the fought akums before. and the tragedy that Nathalie thought Gabe was just bad...not realizing her enabling him using the brooch the way he did twists someone she genuinely cared about.

like, it is easy to notice at judge the physical effects of the peacock broach, but the mental effect of the butterfly is HONESTLY terrifying/scary and has so many implications if their plan was to hint that original Gabe was more similar to Betterfly.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it works even more because it would also explain why Gabe seemed different in this specific fight because he didn't know Adrien was chat noir. people often use Gabe's reaction to Adrien being Chat Noir to validate seeing Gabe as just an abusive horrible person...but what I've also seen is if Gabe actually talks or is around Adrien for enough time Gabe WILL soften to some degree...pointing to how Gabe does care for Adrien and that it grounds him more in his original motive/personality.

So, the change might be because Gabe has been amplifying his negative feelings so 'hawkmoth' is more focused and fixated on the miraculous and defeating ladybug and chat...finding out Adrien is chat makes the 'hawkmoth' affects take over more.

like how we saw Nate and others relax at times around certain people that breakthrough the delusion (like when Nate was actually convinced to leave Chloe alone to go hang with Marinette) but he snapped back into his villain mindset when Mari's actions echoed Chloe.

I think what's worse is it's not even a rewrite since all the blocks are THERE but the show just never acknowledges it.

#miraculous ladybug #ladybug #the miraculous adventures of ladybug and chat noir #chat noir #adrien #hawkmoth #adrien agreste #gabriel agrest #gabriel agreste #marinette #marinette dupain cheng #Nate #Nathalie #peacock #fu #master fu #Betterfly #Chloe #Akumas #akuma victims #akuma villains #villains #butterfly #moth #side effects #final #finally #finaly #last bug fight #collector

[the-delta-42]

The Truth 2

[1 The Truth] [2 Soul] [3 Through a Shattered Mirror] [4 Healing]

Soul

“You want me to do what?!” Demanded Felix, glaring at Ladybug.

“I want you to hand over you amok, so I can extract the feather.” Answered Ladybug, “I found a thing in the miraculous spell book that could turn amok feathers into souls.”

“That sounds safe.” Snarked Kagami, folding her arms and looking down at Ladybug and Felix, “What’ll happen if it goes wrong?”

“I dunno, it didn’t say.” Answered Ladybug, practically vibrating on the spot.

“Why me? Why not one of the other Amoks hanging around?” Demanded Felix, as Ladybug looked towards the corner, where Mayura’s Ladybug sentimonster sat teaching herself to read.

“Because they have the minds and attitudes of small children.” Answered Ladybug, “that, and I like you the least.”

Felix and Kagami stared at Ladybug.

“That’s nice.”

“You have no idea what you’re doing, do you, Marinette?”

“Nope.”

Felix glanced at Kagami, before handing his ring over to Ladybug. The heroine almost immediately took the ring and started talking a mile-a-minute. Felix felt a burst of energy and had a tingly sensation run through him, as Ladybug curled the fingers of the hand not holding the ring and made and almost pulling motion. A dazed flash of light and a white Amok feather floated in the air. Ladybug wiggled her fingers and the feather turned into a ball of light, before Ladybug gently pushed the glowing ball into Felix’s chest. Felix felt the light lodge itself somewhere inside him, before the strange tingling had vanished.

“Hey, it worked!” Celebrated Ladybug, grinning.

“How do you know that?” Demanded Felix, before Ladybug pricked him, “Ow!”

Felix glared down at his hand, a small bead of blood welling on the finger tip.

“Amok’s don’t bleed.” Said Ladybug, before looking at Kagami, “You’re next.”

Kagami looked hesitant, before handing her ring over. Ladybug repeated the process, before planting the orb from Kagami’s ring into her chest. Kagami took the pin from Ladybug before she could prick her.

“I can do it myself.” Said Kagami jamming the pin deep into her finger, “Mother fuck-!”

S

Felix and Kagami watched Marinette try and wrangle the newly humanised senti’s ran around. Bubbler, now just called Bubba, ran around with Senti-Nino, while Senti-Bug kept trying to put stuff in her mouth.

“Guys, a little help?” Asked Marinette, getting a laugh from Kagami, “Seriously, I’m used to one or two, three at the most, but seriously!”

“I thought you planned on making them toddlers.” Remarked Felix, as Senti-Bug wandered up to Marinette, holding a Swan Lake DVD.

“Hmm, what is it?” Asked Marinette, wincing as she rubbed the middle of her chest, as the toddler pointed at the Princess and then to herself, “Huh?”

“Me.” Said Senti-Bug, looking up at Marinette.

“You want to be called Princess?” Asked Marinette, frowning when Senti-Bug shook her head, “Swan? Lake?”

Senti-Bug kept shaking her head, making Marinette sigh, “Odette?”

The toddler nodded, before clambering up Marinette’s leg, making Marinette scoop her into her arms. Odette sighed and curled into Marinette, as Bubba tripped and fell onto Senti-Nino, who then fell onto Senti-Alec, now simply called Al, who fell on Senti-Gabriel, now called Gabe, who hit his head on a chair. Soon, the four toddlers were bawling.

“Oh, great.” Groaned Marinette, as Odette looked at them and said “Fuck.”

S

Adrien stared at the toddlers, watching Gabe trying to eat a tie, he turned and looked at Felix, Kagami and Marinette, with Odette trying to fit a large piece of cantaloupe into her mouth.

“This happened because Marinette felt bad?” Asked Adrien, fiddling with the Graham de Vanily rings.

“In all honesty, I’m not sure why they’re toddlers.” Shrugged Felix, as Kagami bounced Bubba on her knee.

Adrien bent down and picked Gabe up and frowned, “When were they created?”

Marinette frowned, “Mayura created Ode a year and a half ago, and Gabe, Al, Ni and Bubba were made a year or less ago.”

The four all stared at the toddlers, before the penny dropped.

“Holy shit.”

S

Marinette winced as her parents looked at Odette, Sabine was giving Marinette a quizzical look, while Ode pulled on Tom’s moustache.

“So, you were…cloned and you thought we’d adopt her?” Asked Sabine, as Marinette winced.

“Okay, I know that it sounds weird,” Said Marinette, “but I didn’t get pregnant, hide it from you and had a baby, without anyone knowing because that’d be impossible.”

“I think it’d be a bit more believable that a botched cloning incident.” Said Sabine, frowning, “But, if that’s what you want to tell us.”

“Maman, she’s a year and a half old, I was fourteen-fifteen then,” Argued Marinette, folding her arms, “I wouldn’t’ve been able to hide something like that from you.”

Sabine hummed, before looking at Odette, “There isn’t a birth certificate is there?”

“No, but Adrien said he’d look into it, since, er, Ode wasn’t the only one made.”

“Marinette,” Asked Sabine, slowly, “how many are there?”

“Including Ode?” Responded Marinette, “Five?”

S

Marinette watched Nino interact with Bubba and Shelly, the former Nino senti-monster. The rest of the class were milling around the room, while Al and Gabe were playing with some building blocks.

“It’s amazing that they have their own individual personalities.” Said Adrien, as Marinette fiddled with the tome.

“Maybe it’s because they’re now free, independent beings.” Suggested Marinette, flipping a page, “Ooh, Tòuguò pòsuì de jìngzi. That sounds promising.”

No one noticed the light red haze around Marinette and Adrien.

“What does?” Asked Alya, as she and Nino walked over to them, letting Bubba and Shelly play with the others.

“Tòuguò pòsuì de jìngzi.” Said Adrien, as the haze enveloped Nino and Alya, “It’s a spell in the tome.”

“Are you sure you should be using magic, girl?” Asked Alya, “Since the state Monarch left you in.”

“Su Han’s already checked, all the damage is practically gone.” Said Marinette, just before the haze flashed and the four vanished.

#miraculous ladybug #marinette dupain cheng #felix fathom #felix graham de vanily #kagami tsurugi #Sentimonsters #adrien agreste #sabine cheng #tom dupain #nino lahiffe #alya cesaire #su han #delta writes #The Truth

[princess-of-the-corner]

Just thought of something assuming the show decides to reward Marinette with one of Adrien's amoks and how the reveal is allegedly happening during season 6, do you think she and Adrien will ever decide to do what Gabriel did with senti bubbler and talk with each other through one of the amoks

mm.

While I kinda hope it doesn't happen because I don't think anyone other than Adrien should have his Amok(even if he entrusts it with someone I would want it somewhere safe and not on them constantly).

But if they did then yeah use the free telepathy.

[pearl484-blog]

My main issue with senti-monsters

Alright, so first of all, this is not an essay about the senti-Adrien, senti-Felix, senti-Kagami, senti-Chloe or any other senti-person theories. There are a lot of complex theories and debates and discussions about the ethics and moral implications around it. 

No. This is an essay about missed potential surrounding senti-monsters, which is probably one of the least relevant things you’ll need to hear about it. This isn’t about poor execution or predicting where the show will go. It’s not about someone who did something right (well, not completely), or anything like that. In fact, I am veering far away from most of the usual senti-monster topics. So, if you’re hear to discuss humans born of senti-monsters or anything like that, this is not for you. Sorry.  

Now, first of all, I have opinions about the name senti-monster. Now, it’s not what you think. I’m not one of those people about to advocate for using senti-being here. No. I’m here because I want to ask: “Where are all the monsters?”

My introduction to the Peacock was a black eyed woman ripping a monstrous butterfly made of grief painfully out of Hawk Moth against his will. This thing was huge, massive, and scary. It’s design was creative and clearly reflected that this thing belonged to Hawk Moth, and he didn’t have any say in its creation whatsoever. 

My next few introductions were promising. A lolipop monster made out of a need for processed sugar from a baby, and I read that very well, and a simple monster made from hunger which was nearly impossible to defeat, which yeah, giant frog that’s basically a moving mouth. I can get behind that. 

But unfortunately, we also had Senti-bug, and that kinda derailed things. Now, don’t get me wrong. I love Senti-bug, and the moral implications behind her and her destruction are beautiful, and it raised the sentiment of “Good God, the Peacock’s ability to create life and take it away in the snap of their fingers is horrifying”, but alas, it set us down the path of human monsters, which is most decidely not monster-like. 

See, what I thought was going to happen was that the senti-monsters would be representative of deeply buried emotions, the dark, forbidden secrets that you shamefully keep locked up and hidden away for no one to find, and that their creations would be a very unpleasant experience for their hosts. 

The design team has proven with it’s design ideas to be more than capable of being up to the task. The akumas especially are amazing design wise. Most of them have a unique silhouette, are recognizable at a glance, and you can tell important character traits with them. (Except Vanisher who does not have a distinct character design and doesn’t even have their own episode). There are some pretty obvious flops, yes, but even those often have a reason. Some of these akumas do not look good at all, but usually there’s a reason behind it. Ie, Aspik’s hood is concealing his hair, reflecting his need to hide himself and a visual reference to Hawk Moth, Reflekta’s design is almost painful, but memorable, and the Bubbler reflects his childnessness of both his worldview and his influence, blowing bubbles. 

However, it was clear that akumas were begining to stagnate. It was obviously getting harder and harder to come up with realistic reasons why a character might lose their cool, and the loads and loads of characters was starting to become worrisome if the series wanted to keep up the momentum and focus on the characters they already had. 

The obvious solution, I believed, was making the Peacock target deeply buried emotions, setting up a one-two punch. Either you could become an akuma, losing yourself to your flaws in a moment that you lose control, or you could bury your feelings until they became strong enough to become a senti-monster, a living embodiment of a feeling you never wanted revealed. This would start a catch-22, either you deal with your emotions in a healthy way and resolve them, hopefully in a way where neither of you lose your cool, or you avoid it and it turns on you. 

This would begin to force people to move things very quickly or suffer the consequences. Long simmering grudges you know are stupid and pointless get brought to the surface. Deep fears come alive. Secrets you keep hidden from everyone come alive. It could also affect the heroes too, without completely incapicatating them. For example, Adrien’s hidden resentments could come to life, or Marinette’s crush may decide to confess regardless of her say so. Even better, you could take inspiration from Fu’s montster and make the host have a strong emotional reaction to them. From panic to anger to fear to hopelessness. It’s rife with drama.

Now, originally, the Peacock was meant to be used for good, so how would it work if they were heroic? Well, the same way Shadows work in the Persona series. Yes, each character rejects their shadows, but when they accept their Shadows, they become allies. Yet, when rejected Shadows are a problem. It’d be a case of Bad Powers, Good People, where the Peacock’s abilities are dark and creepy, but could be used for good, not just for combat, but for self-growth, and it’d absolutely deserve the moniker senti-monster.  

This would let us see the heroes deal with talking people down in their own ways, each with their strengths and weaknesses. Queen Bee could cut straight to the heart of the matter and tell you what’s going on, no frills, but that might also hurt people and she might have to learn how to stop being callous but still use her skill at dissecting people and seeing their flaws. Ladybug may be kind and compassionate, with a lot of people looking up to her, but she might have a tendency to miss the point. Rena Rouge may be confident and have an internal strength that allows for no bullsh*t, but she can also be pushy. Carapace may be calm and non-judgemental, but might need to work on pushing people out of their comfort zone. Chat Noir would be great at this, being that he is very naturally empathetic, and tends to understand what people are dealing with quickly, but he’s also conflict avoidant, and would be screwed if it happened to him. 

Plus, I’d be able to see monstrous representations of problems and each character needing to accept terrible parts of themselves or be afraid of others learning about it. And I’d get to see fan material that leans into monsters and that creative side a bit more. Like debates over what Alix’s monster would be or represent, or fan art of Rose’s sick looking unicorn design. 

#sentimonster #miraculous ladybug #miraculous lb #ml analysis #writing ideas #Analysis #self-indulgent #peacock

[ninadove]

I don't know if you've ever talked/reflected on this but… have you ever thought about the idea of "souls" in Miraculous? I don't know, I was tormented by that a few nights ago because the very pointed and never dealt with in depth situation with the senti.

Obviously Felix thinks that they are ALL sentient creatures that deserve to live and "undoing" is equivalent to living but even writing this I'm talking about "creatures" not people which also means that I myself have a bias that the more human, the more "real" I see them.

Of course GabNat don't see them as more than tools but they very obviously think differently from the particular case of *Adrien* so I have to wonder if for them "intention" is what makes Adrien different, endowed with a soul so to speak. And LB is the heroine, in theory the bastion of morality, but, if I'm not mistaken, there is only one case in which she treat a senti as if they were a person worthy of having their own free will and they are sentibug, after that we have others (I'm thinking of sentibubble) and (although I understand that they had no way of freeing them and they have to stop them) they also don't spend a moment reflecting that they could be just as dignified.

I don't know, just all these mixed up ideas of what makes them "real" beyond a construct and that Felix thinks the mere idea of creation is enough, while the villains seem to think there are "exceptions" and I don't have no idea what the parameter of the heroine or Kagami for that matter would be.

I really want to hear your thoughts

OK, so I clicked publish before I even got a chance to write anything. Because I’m a genius. Anon I’m so sorry.

ANYWAYS you raise an excellent question, so I’m going to try my best to put my thoughts in order! 🦚

First of all, it seems Thomas Astruc himself differentiates between “human” Sentibeings and others:

Which seems to imply different levels of sentience: for instance, Adrien is no different from any regular child, while Feast exhibits behaviours that are closer to an animal’s. Not that it makes abusing or destroying him acceptable in any way, but I don’t think we’re supposed to feel as much towards him as towards the Sentikids.

(I do. I feel all the feels for Feast. Feast is my baby boy and I will never stop mourning him.)

If intent is truly what determines a Senti’s level of sentience, then this raises many questions as to which ones were created with that objective in mind. And interestingly, it doesn’t actually seem to be tied to whether they look “human” or not.

Sentibug is the first Sentibeing that is explicitly shown to have a soul of her own. Mayura wanted her to be a perfect copy of Ladybug, and that backfired the second she got a hold of her own amok; she shares the heroine’s strong sense of justice, and immediately sided with her at the cost of her life.

What does it mean for humanoid Sentis that were created after S3? Specifically, Senti-Gabriel and Senti-Bubbler? As far as I recall, they don’t get a chance to speak for themselves and express their own identity. If they were to be freed, would they act of their own volition or model their behaviour after their human counterpart? What would that mean for Felix, who was created out of jealousy over Adrien? Would Shadowmoth be able to create Sentibeings who simply look human, but are only granted a “lower” level of sentience to avoid a repeat of the Sentibug debacle?

The more I’m writing, the more I hate the idea of nitpicking sentience levels. It feels like the exact same logic Gabriel, Tomoe or Colt would use to justify the way they (mis)treat their children.

Felix also rejects the idea of a sentience hierarchy — especially based on the Sentibeings’ appearance and ability to speak for themselves.

Strikeback looks absolutely terrifying — monstruous, even. There’s nothing remotely human about them; and yet, Felix feels heartbroken and guilty as he lets Ladybug yeet them into the Sun.

Red Moon is also scary — in a stranger, more ominous, beautiful kind of way. An important feature about her is that she is unable to speak for herself; yet Argos still calls her his sister, and it is pretty clear from the way he interacts with her that she can understand him and experience emotions just as complex as his.

From a purely doylist explanation — I think Sentis are whatever the writing team needs them to be in the moment. This was made extra clear with the creation and (probable) destruction of Once Upon A Time, so they could try something new in terms of storytelling:

The play was very fun (read: tragic), don’t get me wrong, but I feel like the writers kind of got in their own way here.

The thing is — while the delivery isn’t the most consistent or satisfactory, you can tell that there is an intent to say something through the existence and treatment of Sentibeings.

Adrien, Felix and Kagami are, or course, child abuse survivors:

But they are also extremely queer-coded:

And very likely neurodivergent:

I’m sure there’s a lot of other communities who can see themselves represented in these kids — the common thread between these demographics being that we know what it feels like to be othered.

How many queer people are being mistreated for being “too overtly gay, why can’t you just be normal about it”? Or rejected by their own community, based on arbitrary standards?

How many neurodivergent people are being treated as subhuman, simply because they do not have the capability to advocate for themselves? Or because they are disabled “in the wrong way”?

As for abuse survivors? The hard truth is that they aren’t always perfect victims, who automatically know how to behave healthily once they’re out of a bad situation — especially not when they are literal children, who have never experienced anything else in their lives. There are after-effects, wounds that might get infected if you don’t tend to them, behaviours to unlearn. And yes, the healing process can look ugly, but they deserve some grace — a chance to grow and make it right.

Oftentimes, these biases come from figures of authority who are typically seen as “progressive”, or people who have the best intentions in the world — like Ladybug, who originally failed to see Sentis as human or even just sentient, unless they looked exactly like her.

All that to say — the approach that I take when thinking or writing about Sentibeings is the same as Felix’s not taking the Once incident into consideration: that all Sentis are sentient, to the same level, until proven otherwise. Is it necessarily coherent with what has been shown on screen? Not really, but I think it’s truer to the intended message!

And because I’m not one to pass up an opportunity, have some Transmasc Felix Propaganda:

#miraculous ladybug #felix graham de vanily #argos #flairmidable #adrien agreste #senticousins #kagami tsuguri #feligami #sentikids #ladybug #gabriel agreste #shadowmoth #mayura #tomoe tsurugi #colt fathom #feast mlb #strikeback mlb #once upon a time mlb #red moon mlb #sentibug #sentigabriel #sentibubbler #mlb spoilers #mlb representation #thomas astruc #anon asks #random ramblings #transmasc felix propaganda

[goatlilly]

Adrien Has Bipolar

Everyone knows Adrien Agreste to be Miraculous Ladybug’s resident sad-boy: aka, he’s depressed. However, while Adrien clearly exhibits common symptoms of major depressive disorder on multiple occasions, there are also numerous occasions where he seems completely fine, and others where he acts downright energetic and perky. His behavior is kind of erratic sometimes, and some might chalk it up to bad character writing, but there is actually a real-world diagnosis for his behavior, and I don’t see nearly enough people discussing this, so I’m going to write you all an essay explaining exactly why I think Adrien has bipolar disorder.

            Okay, so for any of you out there who are unsure what bipolar is, it’s essentially a mood disorder that causes an individual to experience abnormal emotional highs and lows, usually spanning over long periods of time and causing shifts in the individual’s energy levels. These shifts in moods are generally described as either manic/hypomanic or depressive episodes. During a manic or hypomanic episode, a bipolar individual will experience a low-level increase of energy, often having trouble sitting still or thoroughly thinking things through. Hypomania can cause someone to be irrational, irritable, impulsive, and impatient as some of its negative downsides, while on the more positive end they will experience heightened levels of productivity and self-esteem. Mania is similar, but on a MUCH larger scale, causing all listed downsides and positives to be dialed up to a ten. For example, a hypomanic individual might think they can handle taking ten more credits in college when they’re already taking twelve credits, while a manic individual might think they could adopt five kids while still taking college classes and adding ten extra credits. Being hypomanic makes an individual feel hyper-competent, while mania makes them think they have superpowers. The depressive episodes for a bipolar individual are pretty much the same as depression might be for a normally depressed individual, having the effect of decreasing someone’s productivity levels, energy, and their motivation. These episodes are the opposite of mania, resulting in heightened levels of sensitivity and sluggishness, as well as a higher-level requirement and desire for sleep and solitude and generally low self-esteem. Using the prior example with college credits, a bipolar individual going through a depressive episode might suddenly decide that 12 credits is actually too much, and they should drop at least two of their classes, or they may even go to the extreme of thinking that they should just drop out altogether. So yeah, typical depressed behavior. The key difference here is that these depressive episodes are usually somewhat out of nowhere, and don’t tend to last as long as a typical depression would.

            Alright, that was a long explanation, but now we can get into the meat and potatoes of this thing, that being a deep dive into why I think Adrien has bipolar. And why it was probably written into his character completely by accident.

            So, first things first, let’s look at instances of Adrien being depressed, since that’s what started off this whole thing in the first place. There are some more obvious ones like in Glaciator 2 or Kuro Neko, (we’ll touch more on Glaciator 2 later,) where Adrien demonstrates clear depressive symptoms, wallowing in his room, refusing offers from others for help and generally shutting down, but there are other instances such as in Siren, Senti-Bubbler or Hack-San where he demonstrates Irritability and behaves higher levels of sensitivity than he normally does. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a very sensitive individual in general, but it felt a little more pronounced in these episodes. I’d almost go as far as to say that Adrien seems depressive at the beginning of Dark Cupid as well, but that was such a short scene that I don’t feel like it can really be used to support my argument. Anyways, he’s clearly had a few depressive episodes, but they aren’t all that frequent. Some might say he’s just good at masking, but honestly, I don’t think he is. Every time he’s been sad, either as Adrien or as Chat Noir, it’s been pretty apparent. He seems genuinely fine in most scenes, sometimes being almost downright giddy.

            Which leads me to the evidence of him being manic. The most prominent instances of this are pretty early on, manifesting in stone-heart, Copycat and Kung food. In all three of these episodes, Adrien appears to have more energy than usual, taking impulsive risks and bearing a very inflated opinion of himself compared to usual. Another instance where his behavior screams manic is in Gamer 2.0, when Chat is kind of just screwing around during the whole fight, refusing to listen to ladybug and acting a bit stupider than normal, especially since this is in season 3, and Chat Noir largely mellows out in this season compared to season 1. There’s of course also the episode Glaciator 2, and this is the episode I think is probably worth further discussion. So, let’s do that now. Yay! In the episode, Adrien starts off as manic, interacting with Ladybug in a way that shows a great lack of awareness on his part, generally seeming to say whatever pops into his head without much consideration and irrationally thinking that he has a chance with her in the moment despite being rejected multiple times. Once Ladybug tells him off, it doesn’t take long for all the energy to go away, and he transitions into full depressive mode. He stays pretty depressive for most of the episode, transitioning into irritability and then trying to act normal when Marinette calls him over but only coming off as something close to an impression of what he’s usually like as Chat Noir. At the end though, he goes back into manic mode, thinking again that he has a chance with Ladybug if he just acts like his true self, which, like… what does that even mean? I’m sorry, I just can’t with this boy sometimes.

Also… I guess I should bring up Chat Blanc too. This is one of the most distinct moments in the series were Adrien exhibits mania. Normally I would have thought he’d be mostly despondent as Chat Blanc—that or scared. Instead, he’s full of energy, moving in circles around Ladybug and talking her ear off, saying that everything will be fixed if Marinette just gives him her miraculous, acting out impulsively, irrationally, and almost most significantly, completely out of control. I realize that he was akumatized at the time, but it should be noted that one of the most universal things you’ll hear from individuals who experience mania is that while it offers a heightened sense of Euphoria and capability, it is during manic episodes that they are the most unstable. When mania hits, it’s hard to stay in control, and a part of the brain is aware of that fact. So much energy is buzzing through someone, and if they’re in a state of emotional fragility when the episode hits, it isn’t unusual for them to start self-destructing. The energy needs somewhere to go, so it often comes out in destructive ways.

See, that’s the thing. I really don’t think that Adrien’s character was supposed to be Bipolar. His entire character is about that concept of destructive energy, being that he, you know, has the power to destroy things. There’s an inherent bipolarity to the way that Adrien acts when he’s in costume as opposed to when he’s not. He starts out suppressing his emotions as Adrien, then over stresses them when he’s Chat Noir. When he’s Adrien, he’s the perfect person who thinks he’s not all that cool, and when he’s Chat Noir, he’s a flawed teenaged boy who thinks he’s a lot cooler than he really is. His entire character is like one gigantic Allegory for living with Bipolar. Regardless though, I do think that Adrien is bipolar, whether he was meant to be or not, and as someone with bipolar myself, I can’t help but relate to him.

So yeah. Thanks for reading. I know this was super long and stuff, so if you made it all the way to the end then you’re a real champion. Anyways, let me know what your thoughts are on this. Does Adrien seem bipolar to any of you, or is it just me grasping at straws because I finally found some vague representation of my disorder that isn’t entirely inaccurate? (Honestly, it’s sad how bad the media depiction of bipolar is in general.) If nothing else, I hope you at least come away from this with a decent understanding of bipolar disorder.

#Pls read I worked very hard on it #he's just like me fr #People don't talk about this enough so Imma do it #Mlb #miraculous adrien #miraculous #miraculous ladybug #tales of ladybug and cat noir #adrien agreste #chat noir #adiren is bipolar #bipolar adiren #bipolar #mlb essay #essay #miraculous analysis #character analysis #This is way too long and I'm sorry #I'm making it your problem now #have fun reading this #it is a monstrosity #I hope it doesn't suck

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Honestly if the specials are Cannon that really makes the idea that Gabriel is redeemable while Chloe isn't even more fuck, like excluding things such as chat blanc (where Gabriel knowingly and willingly beats his own son) Gabriel still has committed one murder(Shanghai), attempted murder of a family including small children(senti bubbler) and willingly almost caused ww3(new york)

“I can excuse attempted genocide, but I draw the line at the 1% abusing their status to bully others.”

-Thomas Astruc (possibly)

#immaturity of thomas astruc #iota #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug salt #ml salt #gabriel agreste #hawkmoth #hawk moth #monarch #monarch miraculous #chloe bourgeois #queen bee #queen b

[alexseanchai]

trans boy sentidrien

Emilie wanted a daughter, Gabriel wanted a son, Emilie did the creating so she did it how she wanted

Gabriel took the revelation that Adrien is a boy as evidence of Emilie's love for Gabriel or something, and has supported Adrien's transition for basically that reason and that reason only

if anyone outside the Agreste and Graham de Vanily households (and that one doctor who paid Nathalie a house visit, and Plagg and possibly Tikki and Sass) knows Adrien is trans, the likeliest suspects are Chloe (told preseries), Nino (told at some point between "Bubbler" and "Party Crasher"), and Marinette (not sure if Adrien told her at all, but either way he's very glad she knows); Adrien's fellow employees and adoring fans do not know

Ladybug almost certainly does not know Chat Noir is trans, for identity secrecy reasons, which is probably the only reason he hasn't told her; Chat Noir may have mentioned it once or twice to people he rescued, people he felt needed to know and wouldn't tell; if so, none of them has told

(maybe after *gestures expansively* when Adrien knows both that he's a senti and that Gabriel no longer has any power over him, Adrien will model his masculinity more on Tom and Luka? not because of what Marinette thinks of either man, of course not, Tom's just an obviously excellent father and Luka's aesthetic is rockin')

#miraculous ladybug #adrien agreste #sentimonster adrien #trans adrien agreste #fic prompt #by alexseanchai

[is-nino-actually-luka]

opinions on Mayor Chloé and how her politics might affect Nika?

Well as we all know, Shadowmoth has a desire to vicariously live through Nino, as seen by his use of senti nino, senti bubbler, and senti carapace. And we know that Monarch and Mayor Chloe have a backroom deal in exchange for giving her those miraculous powers.

My theory is that Gabriel wants to also become Nino, and change Nika to Luiniel, which is not very cool in my books

#asks #ml spoilers #the truth

[niyes-lahiffe]

Hey, has anyone ever wondered if Nino has arachnophobia? Because I have proof!

dude i’ve had this headcanon since way before senti bubbler aired! it cracks me up but also makes me soft bc he fought anansi, giant spider lady, for his girl 🥺 but yeah alya has to get rid of all the spiders in the future lmao

#asks #hauntedfaceenthusiast #nino lahiffe

[miraculous-prompts]

Senti!Bubbler and Guardian!Alya using the Buffalo Miraculous need to fight an Akuma on a train, Miraculous Side Effects AU, Elderly AU

#ml #fic prompt #situation prompt #Nino Lahiffe #Alya Cesaire #Bubbler

[gale-gentlepenguin]

What Alya said:

“This is kind of a two person plan, please wait until we get you”

What Alya meant.

“This is a super complicated situation and I have not a lot of time to explain, so please stand by until it’s done. Cause then you’ll be a big help. Thanks”

What Chat noir heard

“Ladybug doesn’t need you so get the f*** out loser.”

#ml spoilers #senti bubbler #sentibubbler #chat noir wanting to question that made sense #s*** I probably would have just left #angst

[monmiraculous]

And Alya...

We already knew that Shadow Moth would follow Alya more closer since Optygami...

And now her friend, her family and her boyfriend...

Who knows how she feels rn? She thinks the reason that's all happened is her?

"Was it a mistake?"

"Ladybug shouldn't have trusted her?"

What if she thinks that way ???

#alya #alya cesaire #sentibubbler #senti bubbler #miraculous #mlb #miraculous season 4 #miraculous spoilers #mlb spoilers #nino #nino lahiffe #rena rouge #ml #miraculous ladybug #mlb season 4