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shieldofiron · 2 months

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Pretty Boy Live in Santa Fe, 1977

Part 1/3 Also on Ao3 here

For @harringrove-relay-race. Very happy with how part 1 turned out, and there will be more to come. Thanks to @foxxtastic for the intro and next up will be something stunning from our fearless Relay Race leader @half-oz-eddie

Rated M / 5k words / Part 1/3

Part 1: Into Hades

Rolling Stone Magazine - May 2002

Billy Hargrove arrived after I did, in his lovingly maintained blue Camaro, the subject of his song, “Lady Blue.” “Lady Blue” was recently named #93 on Rolling Stone’s Top Love Songs of the Century.

“I wrote, ‘She’s the wind in my hair, the rumble in my soul.’ I thought it was so obvious,” He laughed, his blue eyes still boyish. “My niece made it her wedding song, I said ‘Really? It’s about a fuckin’ car!’”

He showed me several pictures of his niece, the supermodel Tyler Sinclair. It seems good looks run in the family. He suggested the diner and he ordered waffles, winking when I mentioned that we’ll be here a long time.

The decades have been kind to him, maybe a few more lines. It’s not hard to imagine him stepping right back onto the stage, as if no time has passed at all.

“A little extra glitter on the eyes,” He said with a smile, “to hide my crows feet. That’s all I need.”

I ask what he’s going to wear to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony for Kaleidoscope's induction and his smile dims only for a moment.

“I think I should pull out some old costumes. You know, the butterfly still fits.”

He was referring, of course, to the sheer butterfly cape costume that nearly had him thrown off the stage in Houston Texas in December 1976. He caved to putting on a pair of silvery shorts rather than the nude underwear it was designed with. He later wore it with the nude underwear on the inside cover of Kaleidoscope, the album that will be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in just a few short weeks. Kaleidoscope was his last album with the iconic Glam Rock band Pretty Boy, which famously broke up at the height of their career while touring for the album, onstage.

It’s not often that a band is inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and there’s a question if all of them will even show up.

“I’ll be there,” Hargrove said, fiddling with the silver band on his middle finger. “I have no problem with seeing him.”

The him is, of course, the lead guitarist and other lead singer of Pretty Boy, Steve Harrington.

Steve Harrington invites me to his oceanfront house in Malibu later that afternoon.

“I haven’t decided if I’m going to go,” He said thoughtfully, his brown eyes darting around the room.

When I mention that Billy is going to go, he seems surprised.

“He didn’t say he was going to punch me, did he?” Harrington smiled, but it doesn’t seem like much of a joke.

For one of the most famous rock stars of the 70s, Harrington is shockingly low key. He wears a t-shirt and slouchy linen pants, and he jokes that he ought to have shaved when I take out my camera. The house is stunning but empty, with miles of blank white walls and overstuffed white furniture.

“I’m looking for a little peace,” He shrugs, “I used to have all these pictures up, all this furniture… It was too much.”

It was hard not to see him as an artist without a muse. He drifted listlessly, picking things up and putting them down as we talked. So it was a surprise to me to hear that he’s been recording.

“I may never release it but… Yeah,” He laughed, “Music. After all this time. Bet you didn’t know.”

He picks up a rare photo from the piano. It’s from the early days of Pretty Boy, before Billy Hargrove. Harrington has his arm around his bandmate, Eddie Munson. Their drummer Chrissy Cunningham is balanced precariously across their shoulders, laughing and cringing at the same time. Bassist Robin Buckley smirks from the corner of the frame, messy bangs in her eyes.

“Who knew, right?” He asked no one, shaking the frame a little.

There are no pictures of Billy Hargrove.

“That’s a… a long story,” He said, when I asked.

But I have time. I tell him Rolling Stone will pay for it. At least that makes him laugh.

It was just by chance that Pretty Boy’s last concert was filmed.

“We were meant to just film in Vegas,” The director, Argyle Molina-Zapata, sat down with me after a private screening of Pretty Boy Live in Santa Fe, 1977, “But there was a freak rainstorm, and I couldn’t get my camera’s out of the back. The crowd was digging it, refused to leave. I remember when Billy hit the high note for ‘Mother Make Me,’ there was this lightning crack… brilliant.”

Molina-Zapata shook his head, “But the footage, what I got of it, was awful. Awful! So I begged Murray to let me come with them to Santa Fe.”

Murray was Murray Bauman, famed tour manager, who handled the Boys, later Pretty Boy from their first album Starfire, all the way to Kaleidoscope.

“And I was lucky,” Argyle nodded, “They had that extra tour bus.”

The tour busses are featured in the first few minutes of the film. They roll around the corner, one reading Billy Blue (Billy’s original stage name was Billy Blue before he dropped the Blue), and the other, Steve’s Six (Named after Steve’s best friends from his hometown.)

“They were nightmares,” Murray Bauman’s voice crackled over the phone, “Nightmares on tour. Separate buses. Separate hotels. Fuck me, I swear to god at one point they wanted separate stages. And the label caved on almost all of it. Fucking nightmare.”

It’s almost impossible to imagine it when you see them on stage together. There’s something electric that passed between Billy Hargrove and Steve Harrington, something that drove crowds wild. They gravitate towards each other on the stage, orbiting like planets until they can share the same mic. They can’t seem to stay apart.

It’s hard to see exactly what happened that night.

“I’ve watched it a million times,” Argyle laughed, “But the only two people who can really say what happened are Billy and Steve.”

What you can see is this: Steve tearing into “Pride & Prejudice”, the lead off Kaleidoscope and the last song of the night.

Billy was trembling, visibly shaking as he sang and Steve harmonized along.

What can I say, if you ask me to walk away?

Baby, there’s no words for you.

Baby. I don’t know what to do.

Billy danced closer, joining Steve, his handheld mic loose at his side.

Can you ever put away your pride?

Is it worth it to not have me at your side?

I guess it must be, because I’m yours,

Regretfully,

Baby.

Billy leans in, sharing Steve’s mic for the bridge.

Is it really a mystery?

What I mean to you, and you mean to me?

Is it really, baby?

Billy shook his head, curls bouncing. He looked into Steve's eyes. He smiled. Steve looks at Billy, and Billy looks at him. It almost looks like Billy mouths something, but bootleg footage also has appeared where it looks like Billy just nodded. Steve goes a little shell shocked, hand freezing on his guitar, falling out of sync.

And then Steve turned away and left the stage, handing his guitar to a stagehand. Billy turned to the crowd, his expression strangely triumphant. He was always magnetic on stage, but this moment transcends that. It somehow feels like he’s getting everything he wants.

So I guess I’m losing you,

You promised me you would and it’s true.

Baby, there’s no words for you.

Baby. I don’t know what to do.

Steve Harrington hasn’t performed in public since 1977.

“None of us knew what was going to happen that night,” Chrissy Cunningham curled up next to her husband, Eddie Munson, on the large white couch of their Seattle home.

They’re a handsome couple still, draped in rock and roll finery. He toyed with the edge of her scarf, and she curled his long hair around her long fingers.

“We had some of our own shit going on at the time so…” Munson shrugged, “Maybe we were distracted.”

Their living room was crowded and verdant, every spare flat surface covered in plants. Their partner, former record executive Jason Carver, puttered in the kitchen in an apron that read Plant Papa.

“Yeah,” Chrissy smiled, “We had some stuff going on at the same time. But still… It seemed like they were getting better. Didn’t it seem like they were getting better?”

Munson shrugged, “The thing about Billy and Steve… they were soulmates. You don’t write music like that and not… it was like they had a second language, just for them. They were soulmates, I really believe that. Everything they did, everything that happened… they could only hurt each other that badly if… yeah.”

When I ask what they did to each other, Eddie and Chrissy just scooted closer together, like teenagers in a slasher, hiding from the killer. She laid a hand over his leg, her two stone diamond ring catching the sunlight.

“Steve never wanted Billy to be in the band,” Eddie shook his head, “but Jim had a soft spot for Billy. And Steve had… I mean Jim was…”

“Jim was like a father. To all of us.” Chrissy’s knee jiggled.

“We were this little tiny band from Nowhere, Indiana,” Eddie nodded, “And Jim believed in us.”

“I was just a junior exec at the time. I was put on the Kaleidoscope tour in case of catastrophic failure, which by the way it was,” Jason Carver is making risotto while we speak, the steam curling the lock of hair that falls over his face. “But it wasn’t my fault although I was high as hell on coke half the time. I guess I deserved to get fired. But Jim was the real deal. Gold records out the ass, best wife in the world, and his daughter, I mean… she was something else.”

They’re referring, of course, to Jim Hopper, producer on Kaleidoscope as well as Billy Blue and The Boys’ records, and the father of pop superstar Eleven aka Jane Hopper.

“Jim was…” Steve Harrington’s eyes always got a little misty talking about Jim, staring out over the ocean. “Yeah, I guess he was a little like my dad. My own parents were always gone. Which is like… I grew up so privileged so like I’m not saying… I just mean I grew up mostly by myself. And we were just so lucky he even agreed to listen to us when we got to LA.”

“I remember that night,” Joyce Hopper’s voice was raspy, cigarette-y in the way only old movie stars are. She’s a gorgeous woman in jeans and a gardening hat, speaking to me while she tends to her garden at her home in Castellammare. “He came home and said, ‘I have the next ones, the next big ones. Fuck, Joyce, they’re brilliant. Unpolished, but brilliant.’”

When I ask about when Jim discovered Billy Hargrove she just laughed.

“If Steve and the rest of The Boys were unpolished, Billy Hargrove was a fucking ten carat diamond,” She said. “But Steve’s band was Jim’s, and he could polish them up how he wanted. And then when he thought they were just right for it… he set the diamond.”

Jim Hopper was a big man, larger than life both in appearance and in personality. His fingerprints are all over some of the best hits of the decade.

Watching him on old interviews, there’s an immediacy to his presence that leaps off the screen.

“My daughter is the one who really found him. She snuck out with her sister and wandered God knows where. And she just… found him. Called me the next morning, saying ‘Dad, you have to hear this guy.’ He was playing in this… terrible club,” Jim said, tapping his cigar on the table of Merv Griffin’s set. “Absolute shithole, pardon my french. And he’s got a great voice, you’ve heard his voice, right?”

“I have,” Merv said.

“I had to get him out of there. He was a star.”

Billy Hargrove was a teenage runaway from San Diego when he came to LA in 1971.

“I had a girl’s backpack from my stepsister, eight dollars, and an extra pair of underwear. By the end of the next week? I had two more dollars,” Billy laughed. “But I got lucky. I met Heather.”

Heather Holloway was a showgirl at Wildwoods, a nightly revue. She found Billy at the backdoor, and took him to her apartment.

“She saved me,” He frowned. “Whenever I needed her most.”

Heather Holloway, Billy Hargrove’s first and only wife, died in 1979.

“I got a job singing at Sugar, this great gay club downtown. It was in the late afternoons, so I had a crowd of about… two. But those two brought two more,” Billy smiled, “Heather would talk me up to all the promoters. He’s a singer, he’s great, you’ll love him, he’s so cute.”

“He was an instant hit,” Sugar’s manager, Bob Newby, tells me by phone as well. “I did have to keep a couple of creeps off him, when he just started he was only nineteen. But even if you closed your eyes… he was a hit.”

“Guys used to think that because I was a part of the entertainment, I was fair game. And let me tell you, the novelty of that wears off mighty quick,” Billy shakes his head.

He shares a diary entry from his late wife of a night in April 1972. He came to her home with blood all over his face.

“Some guy thought because I was a fag…” Billy’s mouth twisted, but he went on, cradling the little marble notebook in his hand. “He could do whatever he wanted to me. When I fought back… he cracked a bottle over my head.”

He’s not just a piece of meat. He’s a person. I don’t understand these people. I just don’t understand, Heather Holloway wrote. I cleaned him up and he’s sleeping now.

The next diary entry is from a day later. April 12. Billy and I drove to Vegas and got married. When we spoke in the morning he said he was afraid for me too, even though I’m careful with the girls. He’s afraid of the cops trying to bust up the Wildwoods and picking me up. At least this way, he says. He and I can come home to each other. Look out for each other. Always. The groom wore band aids and his great velvet pants. The bride wore lavender. It was perfect.

“And lucky too. Because within a month… I met Jim,” Billy smiled. “And my whole life changed.”

Upside Down Records signed Billy Blue, unagented, in1972 and he spent the next year working on his debut album with Jim Hopper.

“I didn’t even realize, when it happened,” Billy shook his head. “A couple of girls came by after a show, wanting to talk to me, wanting to meet me. That wasn’t that unusual. But they were young, far too young to get into the club. And the little one, she was asking all these weird questions. Did I have an agent? Did I know if I had enough songs for an album? Weird fuckin’ questions. And then she said I have to meet someone. To be honest, I thought she was coked out of her mind when she said, ‘You have to meet my dad.’”

“I was not,” Eleven promised me, “coked out of my mind. But that’s just Billy.”

Eleven aka Jane Hopper, meets me backstage at one of her shows. She’s dressed in slouchy leather pants, to match her sister and drummer Kali Hopper.

“I knew he was something special. My dad was always talking about the IT factor. That thing that made a person something special. But I didn’t get it until I saw Billy Blue singing on that tiny stage,” She smiled. “He didn’t just have the IT factor. He was IT.”

It’s odd then, that Billy Blue’s first album had a surprisingly tepid response. His first single, in 1973, “Let Alone,” came in at only 26th for the month of April on the pop charts.

“People liked it,” Billy shrugs, “But I don’t think they knew what to do with it. You have my songs, these like… little pop love songs and ballads. I wasn’t that strong of a writer at the time. It was like half my songs, half covers. And so they’d book me, expecting fucking… Peter Frampton. And here comes this big queer with glitter on his nipples.”

But the lyrics of “Let Alone” would hint at his later songs, a hallmark simplicity that shone off his raw voice and poetry that hinted at a troubled past.

And if you were meant to care for me

You would, and that’s how it has to be

You said I couldn’t go on without you

Ha, look at me, looking brand new

At the same time, The Boys’ song “Paper Girl,” penned by Harrington, was number one.

She’s my paper girl

Wakes me up every morning, right on time

She got me smiling, got my head in a whirl

Picture perfect, paper girl

“Billy didn’t have much commercial appeal. Sex appeal, yes,” Jason laughed, toying with Chrissy’s hair. “But for sales? That’s where The Boys came in.”

“I hated that name,” Eddie said, “To start with we were half girls.”

The Boys had already had a somewhat successful tour under their belt by the time Jim suggested a collaboration with Billy Hargrove.

“It was a nice, short tour,” Steve Harrington glances away when I ask about the first tour.

“It was a nightmare. Balls to the wall nightmare,” Robin Buckley’s voice is a warm crackle over the phone. “Steve went on like thirty overlapping benders at once.”

Her partner, soap actress Vickie Carmichael cackles behind her, at their home in Salt Lake City.

“The thing about Steve is… well… he’s never found a good way of coping with himself,” Robin huffs. “Music was about as close as he ever got. But in those early days, he just kept looking for more and more.”

“You don’t think it was about-” Vickie asked, just barely into the phone.

“No.”

“It was about Nancy,” Eddie said confidently when I mentioned their first tour. “Nancy, Nancy, Nancy.”

The Boys got their start in the late sixties, beginning with Eddie and Steve. Eddie gave Steve guitar lessons, which turned into some talent show performances. They used to practice at Eddie’s Uncle’s trailer.

“That’s where we got the name,” Eddie nodded, “My uncle used to just call us that, and it stuck.”

“I don’t even remember,” Chrissy said.

“That’s not how we got the name,” Steve shook his head, when I mention Eddie. “It was our first gig, after we got Chrissy and Robin. Robin put it down after the headliner kept asking when ‘you boys’ would go on, and kept addressing it to Chrissy’s chest. She blew him out of the fucking water.”

Nancy Wheeler was there that night, writing about local bands for a tiny column in the school paper.

“She was beautiful. Smart. So smart. Could hear her talk forever,” Steve said, eyes falling.

Steve Harrington and Nancy Wheeler were married in 1972 after they graduated high school.

“Steve made his own choices,” Chrissy shook her head.

That summer, the Boys plus one drove to LA and Nancy Wheeler took a job at Women’s Day Magazine and later, Rolling Stone. Steve Harrington and The Boys got a “steady gig” at La Bonita Rosa on the strip, playing for drunks every night from seven to eight.

“I really liked playing at La Bonita,” Steve said. “The audience, right there. You could smell the sweat. You could see on their faces if you were bombing. And we used to bomb. A lot. But it was a great place to try things. Experiment. We played there for about a year but… it felt too short.”

Within the year they had met Jim Hopper, who got them into the recording studio and sold their demo nearly on the spot to Upside Down Records.

“They had a great sound. They had got this way of playing. Smooth like a polished stone. Everything sounds good sitting in a frame like that,” Jim said in an interview with Rolling Stone in 1981. “Their songs were… catchy, but basic. But they had the sound.”

Upside Down records set the Boys on a US tour after “Paper Girl,” and “Joy to Love You,” both charted.

“It was like… overnight. One day we’re in a studio, messing around. Kid stuff. I was nineteen,” Steve Harrington shookhis head. “But…”

“That tour,” Chrissy trails off, playing with her ring again.

“I…” Steve Harrington scratched his nose. “I was losing it. Majorly losing it. It felt like we had just moved to LA and we were already neck deep. I mean, I had a number one fucking song. And for some reason I got it in my head to call my mom. She told the maid she wasn’t home. And I could hear her over the phone. My mom. So yeah. I lost it. Lost about half my damn mind on that tour. And people will say it was because of Nancy, because we got married just out of high school, and she wasn’t supportive… but that wasn’t true. Nancy saved me.”

“Nancy never wanted him to be in the band. But… she also didn’t seem to care that much either,” Eddie shook his head, “It’s… complicated. Love is supposed to be. Simple. Like the chords of a song. 1-3-5.”

Jason Carver rolled his eyes at that, “Then what are we?”

Eddie grinned, “We’re a band.”

Nancy Wheeler met me on a Thursday in New York City, slim sunglasses dominating her small porcelain face. We get lunch at her favorite deli shop, and she perches at the counter, loafers dangling. She’s an editor at The New Yorker now, but she still has a soft spot for rock and roll, as evidenced by the Grateful Dead t-shirt under her blazer.

“That tour. I didn’t even know anything was wrong. He just came home with a funny look on his face, saying, ‘We’re headlining.’ So I said, ‘That’s great, Steve.’ He just kept… saying it. It was starting to piss me off, if I’m being honest,” She shook her head. “I should have known something was wrong.”

“I wish she had stopped me. But how could you know right? Hindsight is always 2020,” Steve Harrington said. “I mean, she was my wife. How could she not want me home? But that’s just… sorry. That’s not fair to put on her. I chose to go.”

“I flew out to meet them when they were in Indianapolis, visited my family, and I came a day early to see him,” She smiled warmly, and then it fell. “He was… Well, first, Eddie Munson tried to intercept me at the hotel, so I wouldn’t see him. I told him, ‘I’m here to see my fucking husband.’”

Steve Harrington didn’t add any more details about the tour, just shrugged when I asked.

“He was coked up like you wouldn’t believe,” Robin scoffed. “She walked in on him with two girls and coke all over his… well.”

“I just asked him. Do you want to come home? Do you want to get help? Or not?” She purses her lips. “And so he came home and we found a rehab place near Hawkins.”

“The tour kind of… fell apart. Obviously. We had lost our lead singer and guitarist to fucking… Hawkins, Indiana,”

Everything stopped for the Boys. Upside Down offered to let them out of their two album contract, but Steve couldn’t afford to pay it down.

“Rehab,” He shrugged. “Is expensive.”

Right as it seemed that everything would be over for the Boys, things were looking up for Billy Blue.

“Jim was always saying, ‘the record is selling alright, the songs are getting there but he needs a… push,’” Joyce said. “‘He’s so close. So close. He’s a star.’”

“He always believed in me,” Billy smiled, toying with his ring again. “Always. Even when I threw a jug of milk at his head.”

Joyce laughed when I asked about that moment, “He came home saying, ‘He milked me, Joyce. But he’ll fix the song tonight.’”

“And I did,” Billy said. “And the album was going alright. I did a little tour, socal and the southwest. And then one night, Jim brings me this song. He said, ‘I want you to tell me what’s missing from this.’”

The song was, of course, the Boys’ biggest hit, “Hades.” Steve Harrington’s first version was called, “To Orpheus” and the chorus goes:

Don’t turn back don’t look behind you baby

I’m close, I’m right behind

The future's so bright, and I want you to take me

Wanna be holding your hand when I make it across the line.

“It was fine, but just kind of… nothing. It was supposed to be about Eurydice, but it was so… nothing. She just loved Orpheus and that was it. There were no insides to her. She was going to follow him to her doom,” Billy shook his head. “That’s not right.”

This was not the version that made it to the recording booth, of course. The Boys’ single, “Hades featuring Billy Blue,” came out in 1975. The actual chorus goes:

Turn back on me and I won’t forgive you baby

Don’t want you to see me like this

Up ahead is bright, and I want you to take me

If you’re strong enough to cross that finish line

“‘Hades,’ was a real step forward for the Boys. Gone were the teenybopper tunes,” Steve Harrington’s biographer and personal friend Dustin Henderson wrote in his book The Pretty Boy. “Their first album got the kids dancing. But the second proved that they actually had something to say.”

“Still hate it,” Steve Harrington said. “I wrote that song in rehab. It was deeply, deeply personal to me.”

“He came out, all ready. He wanted to start recording right away,” Robin sighed. “Like I mean the next day. All these songs, just pouring out of him. But the label had lost faith in us. And they certainly weren’t going to let us start recording with a guy who had only just earned his thirty day sober chip.”

“The song wasn’t ready,” Billy shook his head. “But I guess he was. Jim said he needed this. So Jim asked if I would come and like… pitch some stuff as a personal favor. Songwriting credit, that’s all it was supposed to be. Get the songs moving, get them going.”

Steve Harrington takes a long time to continue speaking about it.

“I felt it, writing for that album. I felt proud of those songs. They didn’t belong to anyone else but me,” He toyed with some piano keys while we talked, and then finally sat down and began to play something tuneless and half formed.

“That album was all about Nancy,” Chrissy said. “I mean. I know it. You know it. Nancy knew it. And she kind of hated it. But-”

“You can’t leave your husband right as he gets out of rehab,” Nancy said to me, toying with her wedding ring. “When he writes all these songs about how you’re the only thing… Steve was always like that. Heart wide open. That’s why when he met Billy. I almost thought… it would all be okay. That sounds fucked up but. I thought they could save each other. That the music could save him.”

“It was just a songwriting credit,” Billy raised his hands. “Jim swore up and down. I was just gonna come in there and sit down with this guy Steve. But when I walk into the studio, there’s two mics set up.”

“I was the Boys’ only singer,” Steve Harrington shook his head. “And to be absolutely honest, I was kind of a jackass about it. So to have some guy come in and say he’s gonna sing me my song… well…”

“Steve was the only one who would ever argue with Jim, And he let him have it that day,” Eddie laughed. “He called him the most low down, dirty, rat bitten bastard in California, and that he would die rather than give up his band to someone else.”

“I did not want his band. I did not know his band. And I did not care. And his song sucked. And I told him so. And then I sang it. Better.” Billy smiled.

“Billy was…” Chrissy shook her head. “Incredible.”

I ask Steve what Billy was like that first day in the studio.

“He was,” Something passed over his face. “Alright. He has a great voice, alright.”

“I was good. Better. Best.” Billy smiled.

“But he didn’t understand the song. He wanted Eurydice to… doubt. To think she wasn’t going to get out,” Steve slammed his hands on the keys. “It’s been… almost twenty years. I still don’t understand it.”

I asked why he let Billy stay. But Steve doesn’t have an answer.

“They were like oil and water, right away,” Chrissy said.

“Yeah, but oil on the water can catch fire,” Eddie shrugged.

“Jim asked me to stay,” Billy looked away from me, down at his waffles. “It was a favor to the label.”

“If Billy said louder, Steve said mute,” Robin snickered. “It was kind of great, actually. Finally someone called King Steve on his shit. One day I came in and they were arguing over how close the microphone should be to your throat. Almost got in a physical fight over a fucking microphone. I mean, I love Steve. But he always thinks he’s like… the babysitter. It’s his job to do everything for everybody.”

“Like who was this guy? Really? He came into my studio with no shirt on, most of the time still half smashed from the night before, and he thinks he can make all these changes. But Jim keeps telling me it’s just business, the label thinks it’s good business.” Steve frowned, and then smiled, and then frowned again.

“Yeah, I never wore shirts back then. Or underwear,” Billy said with a grin. “I was a rockstar!”

“Steve fought for every song on that album,” Nancy Wheeler patted her lips primly with a napkin. “He only lost on one.”

“Billy Hargove has songwriting credit and lead vocals on “Hades.” Dustin Henderson wrote.

“Billy was all over that album. He’d make some minor suggestion, maybe this chord instead of that, this word is better. And Steve would flip out, yell at him, yell at Jim, threaten to storm out… and then two days later quietly tell me to change the chord, he’d start singing the new words. Billy was there with us about every single day,” Eddie said.

“Of course, it was our biggest hit,” Chrissy laughed. “Everything but that song, Steve did what he wanted. Oh we had Billy in the studio, making suggestions. But Steve did what he wanted except for ‘Hades.’ Jim said that song is the album, and he wouldn’t cut it.”

“Jim was always right,” Steve closed the piano. “The bastard.”

Hades exploded onto the radio in late 1975. They didn’t have the same distribution as their first record, but the Boys had another hit.

“Billy had this way of singing it. Still does. He broke four mics when we recorded it. Singing so loud I had to keep an eye on the cymbals to stop them from shaking. You can feel him, right in your chest.” Chrissy giggled. “Like he was trying to wake all the dead from Hades. If anyone could, he could.”

“It’s a really, really great song,” Robin said.

This song belongs to Billy Blue, Rolling Stone wrote in 1976. The only question now is, what will The Boys do next?

“I remember that article. Fucking… Harrington said that he basically wrote the whole song. But he said, ‘the label thought bringing Billy in was a good idea,’” Billy gets tense for the first time. “I’m not saying I was like… I just mean. It would have been nice. To treat me like an equal. I’m more than just a singer. I’m not just… a piece of meat.”

“Billy was really pissed about that article. I remember, the day after the article came out, we were getting breakfast at this tiny place off La Cienega. Steve had this car back then, a big maroon BMW, and Eddie had got him a vanity plate when he bought it. Stupid thing it said, ‘BIGBOY.’ Anyway, We’re having breakfast, and we hear this screech outside, like an accident,” Robin Buckley gets uncharacteristically quiet as she goes on through this story. “Billy’s car is parked halfway out of the parking lot, and he comes in like a bull in a charge. Billy… he wasn’t some wimpy guy. He was small, but he was strong as hell… He came right over and grabbed Steve by his collar and lifted him right off the counter. And he said, I’ll never forget it because Steve used to recite it from memory, yell it at me, ‘Tell me I’m not dreaming. Is that Steve fucking Harrington? The lead singer of the Boys. Hey man, I love your song ‘Hades.’ How’d you get your voice to sound halfway decent for once?’”

“I don’t remember that,” Steve Harrington said flatly when I asked.

“And Steve used to be a fucking dick in high school. So he starts getting real bitchy, shoving Billy off him, asking what his problem is, why he’s such a dick all the fucking time, when it’s not even his band. And Billy said something like, ‘No one wants your shit band. Not with you in it,’” Robin paused for a moment. “And they just. Stare at each other. Like… daring each other to do something.”

Billy just shrugs when I ask, “I was pissed. I gave this guy a number one hit, and he still wanted to treat me like some… airhead singer the label brought in as a stunt. I’m not just a singer. I’m not a piece of meat. I’m a person.”

When I ask Steve about that day he’s pretty quiet, deflated at his piano. He only wants to talk about the song. The music. Can’t seem to talk about Billy any other way.

“He sang it like he not only knows Orpheus can’t save him, but that he won’t. It was supposed to be hopeful. A happy ending.” Steve said.

“So you still hate the song?” I asked.

“No, I don’t. It’s brilliant. And that’s the whole problem.”

To be continued...

Next up is Half-Oz-Eddie's piece at 7:00 pm. GET HYPE!

#harringrove relay race #harringrove #billy x steve #billy hargrove #steve harrington #harringrove fic #steve x billy #harringrovefic #harringrovefanfic #harringrove fanfiction #harringrove fanfic #stranger things #my writing #DJATS au #Daisy jones and the six au #tw drugs

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haveyouseenthismovie-poll · 6 months

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End of month update - November

Hello, all!

Here is this month’s end-of-month update on Tumblr’s top four films that have received the highest percentage of “yes,” “no,” and “haven’t even heard of this movie” votes.

As of today, the top four films with the highest percentage of “yes” votes are:

Finding Nemo (2003) | Monsters, Inc. (2001) | The Incredibles (2004) | Ratatouille (2007)

Next, the top four films with the highest percentage of “no” votes are:

Sharknado 2: The Second One (2014) | Bonnie and Clyde (1967) | Sharknado 3: Oh Hell No! (2015) | Scarface (1983)

This top four changed in that Scarface (1983) replaced Curse of Chucky (2013).

Finally, the top four films with the highest percentage of “haven’t even heard of this movie” votes are:

My Father and My Son (2005) | The Source (2002) | Like Stars on Earth (2007) | The Princess and the Robot (1983)

This top four changed in that Like Stars on Earth (2007) replaced Advantageous (2015) and The Princess and the Robot (1983) replaced Top End Wedding (2019).

Currently, The Incredibles (2004) is the still only film to receive absolutely zero “haven’t heard of this” votes!

I also said I'd make another data chart every so often for these monthly updates (as I did once before for September's update,) so below is a pie chart breaking down the decades seen in the 58 movies that have received majority "yes" votes:

As you can see, the three most popular decades are the 2000s (with 25 movies,) the 2010s (with 11 movies,) and the 1980s (with 8 movies.)

That's it for November's end-of-month update! Remember that you can view last month's update by clicking here. Additionally, you can view the full ranked Letterboxd lists of movies that have come up on this blog by clicking the following links:

This list is ranked from highest-to-lowest percentage of “yes” votes.

This list is ranked from highest-to-lowest percentage of “no” votes.

This list is ranked from highest-to-lowest percentage of “haven’t even heard of this movie” votes.

Hope everyone has a great December!

#text #end of month update

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marsprincess889 · 9 months

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Ketu placement and your most core self

So i want to talk about my personal experience about an artist I love, how she has been haunting me throughout my life and about how art imitates life.

I have ketu in jyeshta nakshatra,(and shoutout to all my 2002 babies with ketu in jyeshta, love u) and at age 10 i discovered an artist whose name i've heard of but never knew. I clicked on a song that youtube recommended called "Back to December" and i really do remember it so clearly, how natural it was and how i wasn't thinking as i branded Taylor Swift (sun in jyeshta) my favourite artist. I remember explaining passionately to my dad why I loved this song and how it differed from RED and how those songs were my safe space because while i had to try hard for anything else, this was natural and easy and just perfect.

Here i credit claire nakti, who you should know if you're interested in vedic astrology. She made a video about ketu and creativity and one's "daemon" that is really worth checking out.

Moving on, ketu is your creative, primal energy that is unaware. It's the headless body, the tail of the serpent, our past, where we come from, what is natural for us, past lives and untamed power. For example, as a ketu in jyeshta native I've always felt close to the hero archetype (I even wrote a song about that around that time), the poor orphan who rises into the world, the brave soldier who outsmarts everyone, the survivor, the winner against all odds, the grumpy independent individual, and even as a young girl, the archetype of the eldest daughter, which I actually am. I've always felt a little masculine at my core, and this explains why, as jyeshta is very masculine. All these archetypes I associate with jyeshta.

Jyeshta is known as "the best". You can only be the best if everyone else is worse, so we have the theme of competition. Jyeshta is located fully in Scorpio, and is very much about the occult side of life. It's shakti (power) is "to rise, conquer and gain courage in battle" (multiple sources). I know personally that jyeshta will never let you win an argument or back away from tension, the exception is only when there's no need to. My jyeshta moon cousin makes me so mad because he's always trying to lecture me to appear smart. That's definitely a more negative manifestation of its energy.

Anyways, in her video, claire nakti says that if you feel drawn to some art, it's been most likely created by someone with their primary placement in your ketu nakshatra. Now, this is not a rule, as I've definitely liked other artists, but Taylor's music felt too personal and custom-made for me, like she knew my taste and life from inside out.

Flash forward to summer 2019 and Taylor has released Lover, I'm sitting on a hill and cannot believe how Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince is so perfect, so me.

I went through my reputation era when she went through it, i went through a personal rebirth as she released Lover, I felt depressed and alone when I finished my school and she released folklore (tbh most of us did(SOLIDARITY TO CLASS OF 2020 MAKE SOME NOISE)) . Around that time I disovered Dickinson(a tv show) and here is my next point.(?)

Dickinson stars Hailee Steinfeld(jyeshta sun) as Emily Dickinson(also jyeshta sun), and it's about her life, yes, but mostly it's about Emily's creativity. There's a character called death that I believe relresents Emily's daemon(watch claire nakti's video for more clarity, but basically it's the opposite sex version of you, your creative self, and is represented by your ketu). Death appears whenever Emily feels different, like she needs time alone to herself and rides with him in his carriage, he also empowers her. Interestingly, Hailee Steinfeld's ketu is in Uttara Bhadrapada, which is Wiz Khalifa's(death) moon. That, in my eyes, solidifies the theory that he's representing her daemon.

I had discovered claire nakti recently at that time and also discovering this art that felt very personal to me was a little overwhelming, not to mention that i was going through a VERY stressful time in my life. As i grew so did my creative energy and I reached a certain block, but now I look at my art from that time and it's so... raw and pure and true. Tbh that time was extremely traumatic for me and it's traumatic to remember it but hey, I'm so much better now. I started my ketu antardasha at that time and it ended in february 2021. Still hard to remember yes, but I heard ketu dashas always are, you always come out more beautiful and true out of it tho 🙂.

So, be careful with ketu energies, they're not for us to misuse. There's always Venus after ketu so it's another reason to smile.

Please interact with me if any of this was interesting or felt familiar. Not all posts are going to be like this, in fact, I think they're gonna be more rare. This was a really serious post and brought up some stuff in me ngl. I really didn't deserve to go through the trauma, nobody does. But it's not all consuming, it was nothing really, it was just traumatic at the time. Anyways this is becoming a lot so wait for more aesthetic posts, I'm venusian after all 💖💖💖 love u guys, take care. 🤍

#jyeshta #nakshatras #jyeshta nakshatra #vedic astrology #astrology #ketu #ketu in jyeshta nakshatra #jyestha #jyeshtha

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starrypawz · 4 months

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I'm aware I'm not the only person to do this but here's a post that was just meant to be me tracking up the description of Gerry's hair to see what is actually going on on that front but this also turned into a few other things that are quite interesting to think about. And I started

I will put this under a cut as it's long, also spoilers

So we first meet Gerry in 004

And he's described as having 'artificially black' hair and he's unshaven, this statement is set in Winter 2012 and is from the period where Mary is haunting Gerry post her death, this also occurs after the events of 012 as the incident in 012 is dated as happening on December 23rd 2011

Then in 012

Yet again, dyed hair, this time he's clean shaven which implies either Gerry tends to shave or he probably at least shaved for the sake of blending in for this incident

(This is also when Gerry had all his tattoos)

, this is also in 2011 and it's when Mary is still around but I'm not sure if she like actually somehow appeared at the hospital since it's never really said like how far Mary could like project herself as a ghost but either way somehow they signed him off to her.

Also to note from 012

Gerry has an expired passport with him, he's traveled a lot this lines up with what Gerry himself says in 111 that he and Mary traveled a lot (Also I personally feel he likely had a feeling he wasn't coming back from this and had that on him for... reasons)

Then in 035 we encounter teenage Gerry in 2002

He's described as thin, his hair is apparently obviously dyed, it's also described as 'greasy'

Also to note, this is where the statement giver implies Gerry is somehow stronger than he looks

Gerry then shows up in 048

He's described as scrawny here, and also described as having 'long black hair' this episode is set in September 2009 which would likely be about a year after Mary's death which is said to have happened in 2008 and in 111 Gerry does say the following

Also in 004 it's stated that Gerry seemingly disappeared after being acquitted

Also apparently someone moved into Pinhole Books in 2014

Also to note 062 where Mary talks to Gertrude and gives her Eric's page is set on the 3rd July 2008 meaning that Mary's death was somewhere after this point (I am going to assume likely not that long after this)

Mary speaks to Eric in 154 which is dated to the 21st July 2008 and also this is where Eric does ask her to track down Gerry and Gertrude has been aware of Gerry's existence for a good while by this point.

Also it's implied that Eric and Gertrude know what Mary was going to do

Another side note 080 is where we have Jurgen's encounter with Gerry which probably would've happened in 2014

And Gerry thinks this was in fact not Leitner

So now we come to 102

This statement was taken in June 2014 and is the source of the 'poorly dyed' description of Gerry's hair, this is the only time where the condition of his hair is really remarked upon other than in 035 where it's described as greasy (Which I personally feel was just as a result of Gerry being a teenager at a time as having greasy hair as a teenager happens to most people) so that was likely a one off moment.

Other references to Gerry's hair being dyed imply it's obviously dyed and an artificial looking black so I have another feeling that his hair looking the way it apparently does here is probably a one off since Gerry has been.... going through it to put it mildly.

And its stated that Gerry passes away a few months after this and in 111 Gerry states and since he says Mary haunted him for five years Gertrude seemingly was the one to seek Gerry out This was likely some point in 2013 (Going off what was calculated by people writing the tma wiki)

Allegedly The Catalogue was burned, or at least Mary's pages were Gertrude however seems to have The Catalogue in 2015 when she is arrested for tresspassing

Gerry was also unaware he was ill until it was too late

In 012 we find out Gerry's death was sometime in late 2015

And Jon finds the following out in 107

From what we have in 107 it's likely Gerry and Gertrude were heading to The Usher Foundation from Chicago but only got as far as Pittsburgh, this is where Gerry passes, Gertrude narrowly avoids arrest for being caught when binding Gerry to the Catalogue of the Trapped Dead and Gertrude travels back to England.

And then The Catalogue falls into Julia and Trevor's hands about a year late 109

(And yes can confirm the Greyhound route referenced by Jon does exist)

So that's the post

Things to Summarise

Gerry is apparently stronger than he looks, he is also canonically pale and thin/scrawny

He's described as having stubble in 004 but not 012 I have a feeling he tends to stay clean shaven but in 004 it's implied he looks like hes not slept for a few days (Likely due to Mary) 004 happened post 012

Gerry has an expired passport with him in 012 likely for identification reasons (I personally feel he had a feeling he might not be coming back)

Gerry was released into Mary's care after the events of 012 but it's not clear if Mary was physically there or not

His hair is obviously dyed, and always described as long. His hair is described as Greasy in 035 when he's a teenager, and Poorly Dyed in 102, 102 is set not long before Gerry died so I have a feeling that's probably part of the reason his hair is like that he's been going through it (tm)

Gertrude very likely knew about Gerry's existence pre 2008, she was asked to find him in July 2008 by Eric, She also spoke to Eric a few weeks after Mary approached her in July 2008 but didn't intervene until 2013

Mary's death was likely some point in Summer 2008, probably in July

Someone moved into Pinhole Books in 2014

Gerry also beat up Jurgen Leitner in 2014

Mary's pages were burned in 2013 but it seems The Catalogue was still usable since Gerry was put into it

Gertrude and Gerry most likely heading to The Usher Foundation before his death They'd been in Chicago and were traveling via Pittsburgh, which is as far as they got before Gerry died, Gertrude never did show up at The Usher Foundation.

Gerry died some point in late 2015, the Catalogue of the Trapped Dead was left behind and eventually vanished from the evidence locker and somehow ended up with Julia and Trevor just under a year later

#tma #the magnus archives #gerry keay #gerry delano

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heroesriseandfall · 3 months

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Canonical Batfamily Birthdays

Here are all the birthdates I know of that are canon somewhere in DC, with a preference for the main comics continuities. I have included exact sources and image references when possible. I am not including character introduction dates, just actual birthdays.

If you find any other sources for Batfamily birthdays, please do share!

A moment of silence for Batfamily characters who don’t have canonical birthdays yet, so far as I know. This includes Damian Wayne, Stephanie Brown, Duke Thomas, and more. :(

Summary

Source images will be further down, but here’s an overview in roughly age order (I’m not sure of Kate vs Selina’s ages) with the dates the birthdays were introduced and used:

Tim Drake: July 19th (from 2003)

Jason Todd: August 16th (from 2004)

Cassandra Cain: January 26th (from 2002)

Helena Bertinelli: February 14th (in the Batman: The Brave and the Bold universe, from 2010)

Helena Wayne: September 7th (from 1984), potentially October 20th or the 22nd of unknown month or maybe October 22 or maybe Feb 28th (all the New 52 on passports from 2011-2012). These could also be New 52 Helena Bertinelli’s birthdays or nobody’s birthdays. who even knows.

Dick Grayson: March 20th (from 1995), October ~24th ish (from 1990), November 11th (from 1976), December 1st (on Earth-16 in animated Young Justice universe, from 2012)

Barbara Gordon: September 23rd (from 1976), sometime in fall (from 1987)

Selina Kyle: March 14th (from 1976)

Kate Kane: January 26th (in Batwoman TV series from 2020), March 21st? (word-of-god by J.H. Williams III from 2012)

Bruce Wayne: October 7th (from 2021), February 19th (from 1970s various to more recently), April ~7th (from the late 1940s)

Jim Gordon: January 5th (from 1976)

Alfred Pennyworth: April 8th (from 1976), August 16th (in the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe, from 2016)

Note: in this post when I say “main comics continuity(s)/universe” I’m referring to anything that’s been a “home” continuity for the comics at some point. For example, pre-Crisis Earth-2, Earth-1/New Earth, and Earth-0/Prime Earth, as opposed to Elseworlds or DCEU earths that are still part of the broader DC multiverse but have never been the primary continuity of the comics.

Below are further details and source panels.

Details and Sources

Tim Drake

Tim has only been given one canon birthday. He turned 16 on July 19th in Robin Vol. 2 #116 (cover date Sep 2003).

Robin Vol. 2 #116 (Sep 2003)

Jason Todd

Jason turned 18 on August 16th in Detective Comics #790 (March 2004). This is his only canon birthday.

Detective Comics #790 (Mar 2004)

In post-Crisis/preboot (1986-2011) continuity, there was a gap of six months between when Jason died and when he was resurrected (Batman Annual 25). Jason died April 27th according to his death certificates in Batman Annual 25 and Batman Files 2011, so he would’ve resurrected near late October.

Batman Annual 25 (May 2006)

So, it could be that post-resurrection Jason is biologically 6 months younger than he chronologically should be. But honestly, do we even really know what multiverse-breaking resurrection punches and then a Lazarus Pit on top of that do to someone’s body??? Either way it’s just much more simple to just use his chronological age.

Cassandra Cain

Much like Tim and Jason, Cass has only ever been given one birthdate: January 26th from Batgirl Vol. 1 #33. With that birthday, she turned 18 in Batgirl Vol. 1 #37.

Batgirl Vol. 1 #33 (Dec 2002)

When Jan 26th actually comes, Bruce suggests David Cain could’ve lied about it, but Cass denies that idea and continues to treat the day as her birthday.

Batgirl Vol. 1 #37 (Apr 2003)

Why it's likely her real birthday: Bruce initially believes Cain must’ve lied because he doesn’t think Cain could’ve known her birthday. However, we later learn Cain had lied about her origins and was actually her biological father. Batgirl v1 #62 and #73 show he was there for her birth and could absolutely know the date.

On top of that, in Batgirl #37 Cass remembers celebrating her birthday with him as a child, so he did seem to actually keep track of it. I honestly don’t see any reason to believe he’d lie (Bruce is just a jealous spoilsport).

Helena Bertinelli + Wayne

I’m combining them here because the New 52 gives me a headache.

Helena Bertinelli celebrated her birthday on February 14th in a spin-off comic from the animated Batman: The Brave and the Bold series. This is obviously not part of regular comics continuity and the characters differ from the usual comics in many ways. And yet, for reasons that will soon be clear, it’s my favorite for actually being about Helena Bertinelli the Huntress and for not being an utter mess.

Batman: The Brave and the Bold #14 (Apr 2010)

In a character profile at the end of Infinity Inc. #7 (Oct 1984), Helena Wayne’s birthday was September 7th, 1959. Calculating back from October 1984, that would make her 25 at the time.

During the New 52, Helena Bertinelli was initially portrayed as a long-dead (secretly alive but don’t worry about it) mobster’s daughter and replaced by Earth-2’s Helena Wayne who got stranded on Prime Earth. This H. Wayne stole H. Bertinelli’s identity in the form of several forged passports and IDs, which had hints toward birthdates. The question is, can we take any of those birthdates seriously, and if so, which birthdates and for which character? (Cue my headache.)

Skip ahead to Dick if overthinking fake passports sounds boring.

When comparing to a real Italian passport, the date on H. Wayne’s fake Italian passport appears to be a birthdate. Note that the fake name is Carol Bertinelli, not Helena. H. Wayne said her IDs were inspired by H. Bertinelli but clearly she’s taking liberties for the IDs so that’s a point toward these being useless for H. Bertinelli birthdays.

Huntress Vol. 3 #1 (Dec 2011)

I don’t recognize the month abbreviation as a real abbreviation, but from the visible letter O I’m going to assume it means October. If it is, then the date is 20 October 1985. Sidenote: a 1985 birthdate during 2011 could put her age at about 26, which is actually quite close to how old she could’ve been based on pre-Flashpoint! 1985 has been given as Helena Wayne’s death year before, so it’s an interesting choice of a birth year for her. (Thanks to DC’s sliding timescale, though, birth years don’t actually mean anything in the comics.)

They don’t show her complete US passport, but I can see a “22” in line where the day of the month should be for her birthdate. This already contradicts the previous passport. This one uses Helena Bertinelli’s actual name, though–does that make it more relevant than the Carol one or this all still ridiculous because of the discrepancies?

Worlds’ Finest Vol. 1 #1 (Jul 2012)

We can try to glean the US passport birth month from the passport number at the bottom. The first two digits (“12” here) indicate the agency that issued the passport. 12 means the Honolulu agency. Right after “USA” is supposed to be the birthdate plus an extra number, in the order of year/month/day with the year being the last two digits of a year. Here we encounter another problem. It says 810228. This would imply her birthdate is 1981/02/28. That’s February 28, 1981. Since the earlier line indicated her birthday fell on a 22nd, this already contradicts itself.

Interpreting a Machine Readable Zone (MZR) on a Machine Readable Travel Document (MRTD)

However, I’d bet comic writers and artists aren’t always well versed in passport numbers (it’s already a stretch for me to bother checking it…). If they put the extra digit before the birthdate instead after, and the date is formatted month/day/year (the most common format in American English, so probably their first instinct), then we can drop the first 8 and it’s 10/22/8[?] with the last digit unknown. This would put her birthday as October 22, sometime in the 1980s. The 22 matches the earlier line, the October might match the previous passport if that really did say October (but contradicts the 20th), and the 1980s year could be 1985 to match the Italian passport.

At the end of the day I’m personally just going to let Helena Bertinelli be a Valentine’s born baby and call it a day, unless/until she gets a better one in the comics. For Helena Wayne I’d easily pick September 7th.

(My question is: did they give the crossbow vigilante a Valentine’s birthday as a Cupid joke??)

Dick Grayson

Dick has probably had the most birthdays of everyone (unless Bruce has more I don’t know about). All of them have their drawbacks.

In a main comics continuity, his most popular and most recent is “the first day of spring” so probably March 20th. This comes from Robin Annual 4 when his mom says she calls him Robin because he was born on the first day of spring. That presents some problems since there are other explanations given for the origin of “Robin,” including that his mom said he was “always bobbin’ along” (Dark Victory #12, page 17) or the original inspiration of Robin Hood (Detective Comics #38, p3).

Robin Annual 4 (Jun 1995)

Before that, in Secret Origins Vol. 2 #50 (Aug 1990), Marv Wolfman wrote a version of Dick’s origins where Dick turned 10 a week before his parents died on Halloween. That would make his birthday October ~24th (presuming that “a week” before Halloween literally means 7 days here).

Secret Origins Vol. 2 #50 (Aug 1990)

The first drawback of the October birthday is that it’s tied to Dick being 10 when his parents die on Halloween. Dick’s age and the date his parents die change a lot depending on the writer (Nightwing Vol. 1 #1 says his parents died June 27th, Dark Victory #8-9 says May, etc.). The second drawback is that few people remember this version of his birthday even exists.

Dick’s birthday is November 11th in Super DC Calendar 1976. Note: Despite being a non-diegetic calendar from almost 50 years ago, this source remains well known and used among comic enthusiasts (including those working at DC). Generally, I would say it should mainly apply just to pre-Crisis continuity, but it is also useful for characters that haven’t gotten updated birthdays ever since (like Roy Harper, Barbara Gordon, or Selina Kyle, for example).

Super DC Calendar 1976

Sidenote: Since Damian doesn’t have a canon birthday, November 11th is favorite to steal for my own fan canon Damian birthday. Dick has plenty birthdays to share and I think it’s cute. @ DC, give Damian and Steph birthdays, they’ve been birthday-less for decades!

Indeed, DC writer Tim Sheridan and editor Mike Cotton debated whether Dick’s birthday was in March or November. They favored March 20th and wrote a birthday scene in Teen Titans Academy #1 (published March 23rd, 2021). The publishing time near Dick’s birthday was intentional, though the date isn’t mentioned within the comic itself.

Link to tweet

The above birthdays were all meant to apply to a main comics continuity at some point. However, Earth-16, better known as the animated Young Justice universe (therefore outside of main comics continuity), says YJ Dick’s birthday is December 1st.

Young Justice Vol. 2 #20 (Nov 2012)

Unlike Helena Bertinelli, Dick has plenty of comics birthdays to choose from, so personally I’ll only count Dec 1st as being the birthday for YJ animated/Earth-16 Dick Grayson until or unless it’s ever mentioned to apply to main comics continuity.

Barbara Gordon

Super DC Calendar 1976 says Barbara’s birthday is September 23rd.

Super DC Calendar 1976

Since then, the only time I recall her birthdate hinted at is in Secret Origins #20 when her adoptive mom says her birthday is in the fall. This could support her birthday being September 23rd.

Secret Origins Vol. 2 #20 (Nov 1987)

Although she has celebrated her birthday on panel since then (the end of Nightwing Vol. 2 #153), she hasn’t been given any other actual birthdate. So I’ll keep September 23rd and call it a day.

Selina Kyle

Super DC Calendar 1976 says Selina’s birthday is March 14th. Once again, although it hasn’t been mentioned within a comic, it’s stuck around in popular consciousness (see: Catwoman actress Zoë Kravitz wishing Selina a happy birthday on March 14th).

Super DC Calendar 1976

Selina celebrated a birthday on panel in Catwoman (2002) #37 but the date was never mentioned. I don’t know of any other reference to her birthday, but my reading of Selina is thus far more sparse than my reading of the others.

Kate Kane

Kate’s birthday options all come from outside of the comics themselves.

In “An Un-Birthday Present,” season 1 episode 11 of Batwoman, a parallel version of her twin Beth had a driver’s license showing her date of birth as January 26, 1990. She and Kate later celebrated their birthdays on an episode aired Jan 26th, 2020. I don’t keep up with live action DC shows so I unfortunately can’t offer a screenshot (if anyone has one or the timestamp, please let me know!).

(I kinda wonder if somebody looked up Batwoman’s birthday for these episodes, saw Batgirl’s (Cass’s) birthday, and just ran with it. Batwoman and a Batgirl sharing a birthday is just. Ughhh.)

In 2012, one of her comic writers tweeted to choose a random date for her birthday and picked March 21st, which so far as I know has never been used as her birthday in comics.

Link to tweet

Bruce Wayne

Bruce’s most popular birthday is February 19th, but his most recent one is October 7th from the digital-only comic Legends of the Dark Knight. I believe that’s the only time October 7th has been referenced, but I’ve heard the animated show The Batman said his birthday was in October (can’t confirm, haven’t watched it recently).

Legends of the Dark Knight #10 (Jun 2021) - Note: two pages have been combined into one for this post

Still, even associates of DC seem to remember his February 19th birthday better. In February 2023, Warner Bro’s Gotham Knights game did a sale for Bruce’s birthday. I’ve also heard the birthday was used in the Gotham TV show, but again, I don’t watch much live action DC shows.

The February 19th birthday appears to come from the 70s and 80s. It’s his birthday in the Super DC Calendar 1976, and in Batman Family Vol. 1 #11: “Suprise, Suprise!” (May 1977). Bob Rozakis (known as DC’s “Answer Man”) said Feb 19th was Bruce’s birthday in the letter column of Detective Comics #494 (Sep 1980).

Letter column of Detective Comics #494 (Sep 1980)

Batman Family Vol. 1 #11: “Suprise, Suprise!” (Jun 1977)

Super DC Calendar 1976

Way back in the 40s, his birthday was in April, possibly April 7th. During a birthstone murder mystery, Bruce says his birthstone is a diamond, which is traditionally the April birthstone.

World’s Finest Comics #33/6 (Mar-Apr 1948): “The 5 Jewels of Doom!”

Star Spangled Comics #91 (Apr 1949) might imply the exact date was April 7th but we’d have to assume the party is on his birthday and that “this month” refers to the publishing month of April. I believe this is where people get the April 7th birthday when they bring it up.

Star Spangled Comics #91 (Apr 1949)

Early April also shines in Batman: Year One where it shows Bruce’s first night out as Batman being either the night of April 6th or the early morning of April 7th (Batman #405). So although the April Bruce birthday hasn’t been used in decades, it’s still a Batman birthday in a way.

I have also heard people say Frank Miller considered Bruce’s birthday to be in November. However, I have yet to find an original source of him saying that, and honestly (just like the “March 21st” birthday for Kate) if he never used it in any canon material I don’t put much weight in that.

Jim Gordon

The only birthday I’ve ever seen for Jim is January 5th from Super DC Calendar 1976.

Super DC Calendar 1976

Alfred Pennyworth

Alfred’s birthday in Super DC Calendar 1976 is April 8th.

Super DC Calendar 1976

In the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe (an alternate reality where the video game of the same name is set in), they show Alfred’s birth certificate, where it says his birthday is August 16th, 1943.

Injustice: Gods Among Us Year Five #26 (Jun 2016)

Maybe you’ll notice that August 16th is Jason’s birthday. A little funny considering the issue features Alfred refusing to share his birthday only for us to learn it’s the same date as Jason’s. Still, annoying. There are so many days in the year! Stop choosing the same ones!

This Alfred birthdate runs into a similar problem Helena’s birthdates did: it’s not part of main comics canon, it’s an alternate universe, so it may not be applicable to the main comics universe.

Note: if we calculate that 1943 birth year from Jun 2016 when the comic was published, that’d make Alfred 72 soon to be 73. Does that mean anything in canon? Probably not, but oh well. Also...token British character born by Windsor Castle? …of course.

Personally, I would rather go with the April 8th birthday than the Injustice one, since Injustice is an alternate universe. Also, outside of the humor of it, the idea of Alfred and Jason sharing a birthday is a bit too much for me. Still, it’s up to people’s own cherry picking.

Chronology

The birthdays in publishing order alongside notable reboots. A soft-reboot refers to reboots that only changed a few details with minor consequences, keeping the overall continuity mostly intact. A major reboot has significant effects on continuity (too many to list).

1935-1986: Pre-Crisis era (Golden Age begins ~1946, Silver Age runs from late 50s--early 70s)

Mar-Apr 1948: Bruce’s birthday is in April

Apr 1949: Bruce has a birthday party on the 7th of “this month”

Skipping a good three decades because I barely even know what’s in there. Sorry lol

Mid 70s to early 90s: Bronze Age era

1976: the super dc calendar says Bruce’s birthday is February 19th, Alfred’s is April 8th, Dick’s is November 11th, Babs is September 23rd, Selina’s is March 14th, Jim’s is Jan 5th

Jun 1977: Bruce celebrates his birthday on February 19th

Sep 1980: letter collumnist says Bruce’s birthday is February 19th

Oct 1984: Helena Wayne’s birthday is on September 7th, 1959

Mar 1986: the major Crisis on Infinite Earths reboot (begins post-Crisis/New Earth era, many previous comics are now considered Earth-2 instead)

Nov 1987: Babs birthday is in fall

Aug 1990: Dick turns 10 a week before Halloween (probably October ~24th)

Sep 1994: Zero Hour soft reboot (Batman and Robin become urban legends so Robin is not allowed on video, Bruce’s parents’ murderer is changed to unknown instead of Joe Chill, Selina is no longer a once-prostitute)

Apr 1995: Dick’s birthday is the first day of spring (probably March 20th)

Oct 2002: Cass learns her birthday is January 26th

April 2003: Cass turns 18 on January 26th

Sep 2003: Tim turns 16 on July 19th

Mar 2004: Jason turns 18 on August 16th

Jun 2006: Infinite Crisis soft reboot (Joe Chill is restored as the arrested Wayne family murderer, Superboy-Prime's punch retroactively resurrects Jason)

Apr 2010: In the Batman: Brave and the Bold universe, Helena Bertinelli celebrates her birthday February 14th

Oct 2011: the major Flashpoint reboot (end of post-Crisis/preboot, begins the New 52 and changes the primary universe to Prime Earth; significant character/timeline changes and erasures)

Dec 2011: Helena Wayne’s fake Carol Bertinelli passport seems to list October 20th as a birthdate

Jul 2012: Helena Wayne’s fake Helena Bertinelli passport lists some 22nd unknown month, Oct 22nd, or Feb 28th birthday

Sep 2012: Batwoman writer J.H. Williams III randomly picks Kate’s birthday as March 21st on Twitter

Nov 2012: Earth-16/YJ animated Dick Grayson celebrates his birthday on December 1st

Jun 2016: In the Injustice: Gods Among Us universe, Alfred’s birth certificate says his birthday is August 16th

Jul 2016: Rebirth reboot (restores some pre-Flashpoint continuity, some characters regain previous histories but now semi-synchronized with the New 52 era)

Jan 2020: Batwoman TV show Kate celebrates her birthday on January 26th

Mar 2021: Writer Tim Sheridan says he & his editor chose March 20th as Dick’s birthday, between the March or November birthdays

May 2021: Infinite Frontier holds all previous continuities as potential canon, restoring more of pre-Flashpoint

Jun 2021: Bruce says his birthday is October 7th in a digital-only comic

Feb 2023: Gotham Knights game has a sale for Bruce’s birthday

#batfamily #batfam #tim drake #dick grayson #bruce wayne #dc continuity #heroesriseandfall #cassandra cain #dc comics #jason todd #helena bertinelli #selina kyle #barbara gordon #jim gordon #alfred pennyworth

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decaffeinatedunicorn · 3 months

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Me:🧍🏽‍♀️🫱🏽‍🫲🏻 collecting anything Hayden related

*fun fact, the blue book is my rarest one. Only ab 15 in existence*

I will add an edit every time I get new stuff in!

Special Edition LA Times Skywalker Saga Magazine: Got at a grocery store

May 2002 Famous magazine | Volume 3 | number 5: eBay

June 30/ July 7 2000 Entertainment Weekly Double issue (the It list 100): eBay

May 20, 2005 Entertainment Weekly (Revenge of the Sith): Ebay

2002 Hayden Christensen Celebrity Bio book: resale library shop (hard to come by w/ incorrect facts inside)

2007 Awake Clay Beresford Canvas: gift from a friend

Clone Wars Anakin Pop: Amazon (no, the care bear isn't included, and no, it's not stuck to the pop either😅)

ROTS Poster: Christmas Gift (also Amazon, I think)

Anakin/ Vader Starbucks Cup: Emeraldsnakeshop on Etsy

Anakin Skywalker Glass: Emeraldsnakeshop on Etsy

Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi Sketchbook Ornament - Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith: Disney Store

April 1, 2005 Entertainment Weekly Special edition Star Wars Cover #3/6• Anakin Skywalker from EPISODE III: eBay

April 1, 2005 Entertainment Weekly Special edition Star Wars Cover #5/6• Darth Vader From EPISODE V: eBay

Star Wars: Clone wars Anakin - AHSOKA mini poster (11×17) : eBay

Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Scrapbook: eBay

Jumper movie mini poster (11×7): eBay

December 2019 Entertainment Weekly double issue Star Wars: The rise of skywalker cover 1 of 3: eBay

*** I'm an avid collector of all things Hayden, and consider myself his biggest fan. I am open to chatting about him/ anything else you want. Not a Star Wars Enthusiast, but I have seen it!***

#hayden christensen #star wars #anakin skywalker #hobbies #enthusiast #hes so babygirl #amazing hayden christensen #star wars anakin #revenge of the sith #luke skywalker #lucasfilm #hayden christensen appreciation

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mydaddywiki · 6 months

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Sonny Perdue

Physique: Husky/Average Build Height: 5′ 10″ (1.78 m)

George Ervin "Sonny" Perdue III (born December 20, 1946-) is an American politician who served as the 31st United States secretary of agriculture from 2017 to 2021. A member of the Republican Party, he previously served as the 81st governor of Georgia from 2003 to 2011 and as a member of the Georgia State Senate from 1991 to 2002. On March 1, 2022, the Board of Regents of University System of Georgia appointed Perdue as the system's 14th chancellor, effective April 1, 2022.

Handsome, husky vigorous and personable with a Ed Asner/Noble Willingham look to him. And what pushes him from 'attractive' to downright 'sexy' is that he wears 'fucking boots.' I know they're not called 'fucking boots' but I call them that because I'd fuck anybody while they're wearing cowboy boots. I know, I'm a whore like that. Say what you want about President Donald Trump, when it comes to hot as men. He knows how to pick them.

Lets see… he has been married since 1972 with four children, fourteen grandchildren and have also been foster parents for many children. On a side note, his son Dan Perdue could definitely get a taste too. He also the cousin of David 'Big Dick' Perdue. An avid sportsman, Sonny enjoys flying and, in a 2003 incident, was accused of flying a state helicopter without a license. Sounds like a bit of a bad boy. And everybody loves a bad boy.

#mydaddywiki politicians #Sonny Perdue

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mirai-e-jump · 8 months

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Beautiful Catalog Vol.1 ft. Kamen Rider Ryuki Cast Members Suga, Matsuda, Hagino and Ryohei Interviews & Photoshoot (pages and translations below)

Publication: December 16, 2002

Takamasa Suga (Ryuki) Interview

"We're enchanted by his soft and gentle smile~❤️❤️❤️. Maybe it's because he plays the role of a handsome man (?), but the image of Shinji Kido, played by Takamasa Suga-san in "Kamen Rider Ryuki" makes us feel relaxed when we see Suga-san~❤️❤️❤️. Shinji seems like an honest and hardworking guy, but we wonder, what does he and Suga-san have in common?"

Suga: For one thing, when I think like this, I really get into him, which I guess is all that there is? There are many things I can learn from him. Hmmm~, the same goes for his honesty, and also for his strength.

"Suga-san is also very laid back, yet he seems to have a strong core ❤️. You originally took lessons at a training school to become an actor, right?"

Suga: I've always loved and admired movies. When I was 18, I saw Iwai Shunji-san's movie "Swallowtail" in theaters, and when it was over, I was really shaken up. For awhile, I was in agony over what this feeling was. As time went on, it became clear to me that I wanted to express myself on that screen, and so I entered a training school to study acting. But, it wasn't interesting at all (laughs). I spent about a year wondering if this was the kind of expression I wanted to express. One day, I was sent to a movie set as an extra. I quit the training school because I realized that important things can only be learned on site.

"And? And? What happened after that????"

Suga: I had some free time, so I was given the opportunity to perform on stage. It was right around the time that I was introduced to my current agency, so that's how I ended up here (laughs).

"What was it like auditioning for Ryuki?"

Suga: I just wanted a job. I felt like I was grasping at straws. I was approached by my agency and accepted, but at first, Kamen Rider didn't really sound appealing (laughs).

"Eh~?! When you were a child, weren't there any heroes you admired?"

Suga: I only watched baseball, so I don't remember watching shows like that. I was a (Yomiuri) Giants fan, and it was around the time that (Masumi) Kuwata made his debut, so I think I remember saying, "Kuwata is the future!" (laughs)

"We wonder, what was Suga-san like as a child~?"

Suga: I was mischievous. My family owned a sushi restaurant, and I was always running around the store (laughs). There were many shops in the neighborhood. There was a grocery store next door, a soba noodle shop across the street, and a Chinese restaurant next door, as well as others. It gave off a downtown kind of atmosphere, you know?

"If you were to start a family, what kind of father would you want to be???"

Suga: In my family, both of my parents worked at the restaurant, so we rarely went anywhere as a family. That's why I hope I can create an environment where we can be together.

"Would you participate in the housework?"

Suga: I'll leave the housework to them!

"Would you cook?"

Suga: I don't do it.

"Cleaning?"

Suga: Not at all (laughs).

"Laundry?"

Suga: Well, when the time comes (laughs).

"I see. If it were Suga-san, I'd do anything for him ❤️. However, Suga-san is very fashionable and has a serious image, doesn't he? The outfits for this gravure photo shoot were also Suga-san's personal clothes, and even during talk shows, he wore a turban and a red western hat as his personality shines through⭐. Where do you find these Western styled clothes?

Suga: I'll wonder around Daikanyama, Harajuku, and Aoyama, and think things like, "Ah, I found something!" I don't decide what I'm going to buy today, I just go out on a whim and buy what I think looks nice. I'm not particular about brands either.

"Do you have any fashion references?"

Suga: There's nothing in particular. However, I do read fashion magazines. There's also alot of women's magazines, such as "Figaro," "Vogue," and "High Fashion"……I like women's fashion. The shapes and styles are beautiful.

"I see. The secret of Suga-san's cuteness may be because of the fact that he's honestly attracted to what suits his sense of style. His face is as beautiful as any girl's ❤️. I like girls who wear this kind of fashion when I walk with them! I wonder if he has any particular fashion preferences?"

Suga: That's not really true. I tend to dress up in various styles. But, I like girls who dress up and take care of their appearance. I think that's definitely more attractive as a woman.

"Well, who's your favorite actress?"

Suga: It's Kuroki Hitomi-san! My family loved Takarazuka Revue, and I thought she was beautiful from her Takarazuka days. I still admire her. She's both elegant and attractive, isn't she?

"I see, so older women are okay ❤️. I'm sure there are many mother fans whose maternal instincts are tickled by Suga-san, do you have any message for them?"

Suga: Please take care of your children! There's no exceptions (laughs). I think that Ryuki depicts a world that's truly profound even for adults, so please be sure to look at the content carefully.

"The show is coming to an end and the Riders are fighting a brutal battle. If it were Suga-san, what reasons would you have for fighting?"

Suga: Hmm, when I listen to the other Rider's reasons for fighting, I nod in agreement. It's a reason that only that person has. I think that's the theme of Ryuki as well. It's not about what's right and what's wrong, but since there's many different Riders, I think I've also asked questions like, "What is justice?"

"For example, would you fight for your family?"

Suga: I think so, if it were for family……I think I'd fight for someone I care about and want to care for.

"We know you're extremely busy right now, but what do you plan on doing after Ryuki is over?"

Suga: I'd like to try designing clothes. Also, I'm thinking of going to learn Japanese dance. After that, I'd like to get a license for a large motorcycle. There are so many things I want to do…..

"Finally, some words for the fans!"

Suga: I always do things at my own pace like this, so please continue to support me!

"Of course~ I hope you'll keep being Suga-san, and continue to move forward without losing that current freshness!"

Satoshi Matsuda (Knight) Interview

"A sharp gaze, and a tight body reminiscent of a wild beast. Satoshi Matsuda-san has a cool, wild, and mysterious feel to him, just like the image of Akiyama Ren (Knight) who he plays in "Kamen Rider Ryuki." However, he keeps quiet (laughs). When the hair and makeup artist said to him while setting his hair, "You have more than one whirlpool, don't you?" he responded with, "The official record is five." He also has an outstanding talent for winning the hearts of those around him! And when he smiles, it's so cute, your eyes will become dizzy~💙💙💙. There seems to be quite a gap between Matsuda-kun and Ren's character, but the actor himself feels no discomfort at all. He's an actor 💙. But still, it's tough having so much work, isn't it?"

Matsuda: I think one Kamen Rider is tougher on a schedule than having multiple jobs (laughs). Filming for the final scene of the movie version took a full 24 hours, starting at 6 a.m. and ending at 6 a.m. the next morning. After that, we were taken to a hotel, slept for 20 minutes, and then started filming for the TV version at 7 a.m. Filming would continue until 5 p.m. It really made me think that I was going to die (laughs).

"Normally, Matsuda-san is said to be the mood maker on set, and yet he was in such low spirits?"

Matsuda: No, I was in really high spirits. I was just going with the flow. I would fall asleep while in a standing position and wake up to the sound of "Test!" (laughs).

"Such a hard year is finally coming to an end, and we wonder what the end of Ryuki will be like~"

Matsuda: We don't even know if Ren will survive or die. But, even if the name of the show was "Kamen Rider Knight," I want to make sure that the story comes to an end, and I want to do my best to finish the story as Akiyama Ren.

"Despite his tough schedule, he made his debut as a singer with the maxi single "DISTANCE" on December 4!"

Matsuda: I was originally scouted as a singer. After 3 years, I was able to release a song with confidence. And, I think I did a great job~. We recorded 3 songs in 3 days, but we had to shoot Ryuki in the mornings, and the second day's shooting in particular was the scene where Knight screams in agony (laughs). There are no singers like that. Everyone was telling me to take care of my throat and use a humidifier instead of a heater (laughs). On top of all that, I couldn't even eat. I was told that if I put solid food down my throat, it would make my voice noisy, so I wasn't allowed to eat within 2 hours of it. I got through it with things like jelly drinks.

"Oh no~, you poor thing~!"

Matsuda: There's a bonus video on the CD that includes an interview with Manager Kawaguchi right after we finished recording the 3 songs. I was so careless with my manager that I was already dizzy. Since I was dealing with my manager, I let my guard down, so I was alittle unsteady~. I don't think you'll ever see such a burnt out look anywhere else, so it's quite a privilege (laughs).

"You released your personal DVD & Video "Colors" at the same time as the CD~. It also includes footage from the recording process. If you want to see Matsuda-san's true face, then there's his column "Matsuda Lab," which is currently being published on his website. It's a collection of hilarious and interesting writings, which set him apart from the plain diaries that are found on other talent's websites."

Matsuda: It's just for fun (laughs). When people who only know me as Akiyama Ren saw Matsuda Lab for the first time, they were shocked, and I still get emails saying, "I was surprised."

"It's certainly a surprising true face, and it's completely exposed. Apparently, he now types it on his computer, but before that, he'd write it on manuscript paper and have it retyped."

Matsuda: I would get very angry if I got even one punctuation mark wrong, so the person typing was very nervous (laughs).

"You pay attention to every detail 💙. If you join the fan club, you'll be able to see more in depth (?) columns and special videos. I'm curious. We heard that you used to always respond to fan letters and e-mails, but the support of your fans is a source of energy, right?"

Matsuda: Energy's also a big part of it, so I'd like to know what you are looking for from Satoshi Matsuda. There's another "me" who's controlling "Satoshi Matsuda," and he wants to know your opinions (laugh). These days, I don't have much time to reply, but I do read all the letters and e-mails.

"I think there are alot of fans who are older than you, but how old would your lover be?"

Matsuda: It doesn't matter if they're 30 or 35 years old. My grandmother is eight or nine years older than my grandfather, and because of that, every couple in my family has an older female member. I'm not particular about it either.

"Well then~💙. So, have you ever thought about what kind of family you want to have?"

Matsuda: I don't really feel like it. But, there are moments where I'd like to get married. I like seeing happy families at events. And yet, I can't imagine myself as a father. I wonder what it'd be like to become a second generation, when I myself haven't mastered anything yet.

"I think you're abit like Ren in that he's stoic 💙. When you were a child, who was the hero that you idolized?"

Matsuda: Hmmm, there was no one there. I was just a kid who fished outside all the time.

"Your hobby is still fishing, right~?"

Matsuda: To be honest, I want to hide a fishing rod with me on set. If they found out, they'll probably say, "Are you serious?!," but it's frustrating when filming finishes first thing in the morning and there's a good fishing spot right over there. But, my rod is long and stands out. It's a 50,000* yen rod with a reel that costs 40,000-50,000 yen, so it feels like a professional grade weapon for catching fish (laughs). (*over $300)

"He specializes in black bass, with his largest official record being 52cm (20.5in)! Ama~zing! When I asked him to give a final message for the fans, he thought for a moment before answering with……"

Matsuda: Some people seem to think that singing is a side job, but I'm doing my best in singing as well. I can't say which is most important, acting or singing. I hope that people will watch and listen to my performances and judge them for themselves.

"Never cutting corners! So cool~💙💙💙. What else would you like to do in the future?"

Matsuda: I'd like to try radio. With the same spirit as Matsuda Lab.

"We're sure it'll be fun! We'll warmly welcome your efforts that make use of your unique character, and of course, your looks 💙."

Takashi Hagino (Ouja) Interview

"His eyes, with their intense shine, are truly those of Ouja! Once you've caught a glimpse of him with those eyes, you'll be captivated~💜💜💜. Takashi Hagino-san starred as Akira Suzumura in the cult classic show "Choukou Senshi Changerion," and also appeared in "Kamen Rider Ryuki," which was produced by the same Producer, as Takeshi Asakura. His blonde hair matches the mood of his role, and with a leopard print shirt, and slim black pants……it's too intense, isn't it scary?"

Hagino: It's really scary. Nah, I'm kidding, I don't actually know (laughs). I don't mind if people think I'm scary.

"He has the sex appeal of a man, but also has the innocent smile of a boy~💜💜💜. That's how he attacks when his prey is distracted~ (laughs). We wonder if Asakura, a brutal murderer and escaped prisoner, has anything in common with Hagino-san."

Hagino: I think there's some. When you've been doing it for a long time, you become influenced by the role you play. When I'm tired, I'm like, "I'm irritated!" (laughs).

"There it is! Asakura's famous line (?), "I'm irritated!" How does it feel to play such an intense role?"

Hagino: Regardless, it's alot of fun. It's not a role I get to play very often, so I want to enjoy it even more until the end. I don't want to relax in my private life right now, rather, I want to finish the story in the same way that I've been doing it so far. I want to keep the tension, and perform with a sense of urgency. In the meantime, I try to watch the news and live a normal life.

"I guess you could say you've broke new ground as an actor, huh~?"

Hagino: As a job, I was enthusiastic and thought, "Let's do this!" But it was my first time playing such a role, and I didn't have any hesitations about how I was going to do such an amazing role, but strangely enough, I was able to play it quite naturally from the first day. So I'm not sure I can call it breaking new grounds.

"That's true, your performance suggests that you've had plenty of experience. Given your career, we wonder, are you like the older brother on set?"

Hagino: Until now, I've often worked on set with senior actors, and there weren't many people younger than me. That's why it was interesting to see where I stood on set this time around. Suga-kun and Matsuda-kun are really good kids, and I've become inspired by the younger people. I've learned alot from their youthful energy and the way they use it. In my role, I often interact with Ryohei-kun, who's the same age as me, so we have alot of fun together.

"As a fan, it's very moving to see Hagino-san, who used to play the role of Akira Suzumura with all his heart, grow like a snake, shedding its skin, and happily playing the role of Takeshi Asakura. What has the reaction from viewers been like?"

Hagino: There was an episode called "The Girl and Ouja," and since then, I've been getting an incredible amount of fan letters. Until then, I had received letters from people who said they liked, "scary things" and "bad guys" in a cult like way, but when they said, "I saw a different side of him, even though he is a bad guy," the number of letters increased rapidly.

"So, what kind of hero did Hagino-san himself admire during his childhood?"

Hagino: There was no one in particular, but I think I had a desire to become a hero. When I was a child, I genuinely thought that helping the weak was heroic, and I admired it. Doing things like helping girls even if they're elementary school students. In my role now however, I bully girls (laughs).

"Even so, for some reason, Hagino-san always plays "unusual" heroes, right? He's so handsome, that maybe he plays untraditional heros without any complaints?!"

Hagino: I think the roles I've been given to play are wonderful. Both Akira Suzumura and Takeshi Asakura are honest with themselves. I'm not saying that heroes need to be honest, but I think that it's very important. There's something in me that's attracted to that part.

"We wonder what kind of child Hagino-san was~?"

Hagino: I was naughty. But, I studied for entrance exams and went to cram school (laughs). I liked being called "boy." There are pictures of me studying until midnight, and of going to school with dark circles under my eyes. I'd get so excited when it came to studying, that I'd suddenly realize it was 2 a.m. (laughs). I was like, hey, I'm pretty amazing. I liked doing those kinds of things (laughs).

"Kya~! That's just like Hagino-san 💜. What kind of father do you think you'd be if you had children?"

Hagino: I can only imagine, but I think I'd really love it. After work, I'd feel like going home right away.

"Would you let your own child watch Ryuki?"

Hagino: That's……They can watch it, because it's their own father (laughs). If they complain, I'll just slap them. I'm just kidding about that last part (laughs).

"By the way, you also tried your hand at singing for the first time with the CD, "Kamen Rider Ryuki Song Collection", right?"

Hagino: It was alot of fun! I was able to experience recording for the first time in my life, so I was very satisfied with it (laughs). The voice training and the production process were also interesting. Also, I was really nervous. The engineers and everyone else were professionals, so I knew I had to do it right. But, I'm not a professional singer, so I had no choice but to do the best I could, but when I actually tried it, it was alot of fun.

"Does this mean, you'll debut as a full fledged singer?!"

Hagino: It's not like I said to myself, "I want to be a singer!," but it was an experience that I'd like to do again if I get the chance.

"As expected, you'll continue to focus mostly on acting in the future, right?"

Hagino: That's right. I want to play various roles in various situations. I want to play roles that I've never played before, and I want to play roles that I have played before.

"I see. If the current Hagino-san were to play Akira Suzumura, I'm sure we'd see a new side to him. Now then, some final words to the fans!"

Hagino: As long as you enjoy it, that's the most important thing. I'll do my best, so I hope everyone enjoys watching.

"We had a great time during the interview with him, with his skillful storytelling and sexy beams bursting 💜. We hope he'll continue to entertain us more and more as an actor and singer (?)~💜💜💜.

Ryohei (Zolda) Interview

"Kya~! He's sooo~ tall~! Furthermore, his handsome and chiseled face is so cool that it makes us dizzy~. That's because Ryohei-san, who plays the role of Shuichi Kitaoka, a talented lawyer known as Zolda in "Kamen Rider Ryuki," is an active fashion model with a career spanning about 7 years~💚."

Ryohei: In the modeling world, there are people taller than me, but in the entertainment world, I'd say there's only Abe Hiroshi-san (laughs). I don't mind it anymore, but I used to have a complex about it.

"He has long, slender legs, which we think is one of his charming points. Although he has experience from appearing in commercials, this is his first real acting job!"

Ryohei: I've always liked Kamen Rider and other heroic show, and when I was a child, I would wrap myself up in the curtains around my house and say, "Henshin!" That's why I was genuinely happy. You'd never think that you can become a hero, or that you yourself can transform, right?! When I got the role, I was just so happy, that I couldn't stop cackling.

"When he's silent, he looks just like Kitaoka, cool and mature, but when he speaks, he gives off a playful, boyish look that's very cute~💚💚💚. But, you couldn't "cackle" once filming started, could you?"

Ryohei: I think that acting is the same whether it's a regular drama or a tokusatsu production, the creators are always on site, and they're always trying to produce high quality work, so you can't go to a production site just to have fun. There was such a sense of urgency on set, that I felt my back tense up.

"Your schedule was tough, wasn't it~?."

Ryohei: There were times when I didn't perform, so it wasn't that tough. It was a relief for me since I had no experience in acting, but still, I was always nervous whenever I entered the set (laugh). If I go in every day, I can stay in the mode of my role for a long time, but after a 2 week gap, I'm back to my normal self. It was quite difficult to get back into the role. I also tried to imagine how Kitaoka would spend his time off screen.

"What are some similarities and differences between Ryohei-san and the lawyer Kitaoka?"

Ryohei: The movements and gestures are as close to mine as possible. I don't usually talk like him though (laughs). When I first received the script, I thought he was a lawyer, had money, and was a slick guy who could do anything. I hadn't heard that he was suffering from a disease, so I wanted to make him come off as arrogant, obnoxious and unpleasant.

"I see. Kitaoka, a confident man who carries the shadow of his illness, is attractive, but Ryohei-san, who is friendly and talks about many things, is also wonderful~💚. Did you ever feel confused on set?"

Ryohei: To be honest, I never ever knew what to ask. I saw various cast members coming in later and asking the Director questions about things they didn't understand, and that's when I realized that it was okay to ask questions. Since then, whenever I have a question or an opinion like, "Isn't it better to do something like this?," I'll say it as much as I can.

"The setting is that, "Riders are fighting each other!" There are alot of different actors in the show, which is interesting as a viewer, but isn't it also exciting when on set?"

Ryohei: Even though they're younger than me, there are some people who are my seniors when it comes to acting. There's so many different styles and personalities, and it's both instructive and stimulating. I realized again how interesting acting is, and I also realized how difficult it is. It's so deep that when you look up, there's no end to it. I always try not to make mistakes the next time, but when filming finishes, I find myself regretting something again, and the cycle repeats itself. But, I wonder if it'd be bad if that stopped.

"I wonder, what's the difference between modeling work and acting? When I looked at the gravure photoshoot earlier, I saw that your poses and facial expressions were so perfect, and I felt that this is what you'd expect from model!💚💚💚"

Ryohei: It's been a long time since I've done a gravure shoot, so it felt really good. Modeling is all about having fun in the moment. Once I enter the studio, I look at the atmosphere, the photographer's personality, and the clothes they're wearing, and I instantly think about how I want to act. It's an instantaneous decision. As an actor, you spend alot more time developing your character, so it's a great feeling of fulfillment after you're done. There's differences between the two, kind of like short distance running and long distance running, but the sense of accomplishment is the same and both are enjoyable.

"When it comes to future activities, we wonder, what are you thinking about~?"

Ryohei: Regarding roles, I'd like to play a variety of roles without refusing any that are presented to me. It could be a murderer or a comedian. I think that my current popularity was gained as a result of the popularity of tokusatsu, and not because of my ability. From now on, I want to work on closing the gap that has opened between my popularity and my ability. I don't want to let down my fans, so I want to do various things to improve my skills, and I want to acquire as many things as possible as an actor. In that sense, I'm very "hungry."

"Kya~! (starts clapping) Now that I think about it, Ryohei-san also has experience as a salaryman. Now that he's had alot of experience, his words carry alot of weight to them, anyway, tell us about the type of woman you like and your views on marriage~!!!"

Ryohei: I don't have a specific type, but my type is the person I'll fall in love with (laughs). Marriage is about your partner, so I hope to meet someone who has similar values to mine.

"We're curious, in Ryuki, what's going on with the relationship between lawyer Kitaoka and his male secretary Goro-chan?"

Ryohei: It's a mystery, isn't it? (laughs). Since we don't see much of Kitaoka's private living space, we can only imagine how they live together. Personally, I think that maybe Goro-chan is a live in worker, and that they each have separate rooms and are living a normal life.

"With some mysteries remaining (laughs), Ryuki is finally coming to an end, huh?"

Ryohei: I don't know how things will turn out myself, but please look forward to more drama towards the conclusion, as well as the future of Shuichi Kitaoka and the Kitaoka Law Office!

"We're really looking forward to what Ryohei-san will do after he plays Kitaoka~💚💚💚."

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k-i-l-l-e-r-b-e-e-6-9 · 2 years

Audio

Sepultura - Territory

#Sepultura #Under a Pale Grey Sky #Territory #Release date: September 22nd 2002 #Live album #Max cavalera era #Recorded at the Brixton Academy London December 16 1996 the last show with Max Cavalera. They argued right after coming off stage which led #which led to Max leaving.#Genre: Death/Thrash Metal #Lyrical themes: Satanism Death Anti-fascism #Brazil

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harrisonarchive · 8 months

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Footage from an interview for MTV, December 1988.

Song spotlight: “End Of The Line” — “I loved End Of The Line. I remember the day [George] wrote it. He had started it off on the piano. And we all kind of sat in a group. His enthusiasm was very contagious.” - Tom Petty, Rolling Stone, January 17, 2002 “[Roy’s] funeral was only about a day before the [‘End Of The Line’] video. But we just tried to go on and hope that we did him justice. And it turned out to be a curious song for the next single, you know, ‘the end of the line.’ But I think it — you write these songs and then it’s funny how events come down, and later on when you hear the song it can mean so much more than when you were writing it.” - Tom Petty, BBC Radio 2 “Sort of like Carl Perkins says on a lot of his songs, ‘Well, it’s alright.’ If you’re gonna be an optimist then it’s gotta be alright. If you happen to be a peg-legged old pirate who’s trying to make a Wilbury album, it’s still alright.” - George Harrison, Genesis Publications “I’m seven years younger than them. They’re like my older brothers. I was telling a friend of mine the other day how odd it is that I never sought out any of those people, any of my heroes. Somehow the ones that really matter to me, I got to become really good friends with. It’s embarrassing. I never mention my friends to people because they think I’m bragging, but it is kind of cool. And I’ve always been upfront with them about how cool I think it is. They’ve been a big help to me in many ways. Especially George because he’s been through all this. I don’t have an older brother, and he’s always been there to advise me” - Tom Petty, Mojo, May 1999 “George was the kind of guy who wasn't going to leave until he hugged you for five minutes and told you how much he loved you. We knew where we stood with each other.” - Tom Petty, Rolling Stone, January 17, 2002 (x)

#George Harrison #Tom Petty #Jeff Lynne #Roy Orbison #Bob Dylan #quote #quotes about George #quotes by George #Harrison songwriting #The Traveling Wilburys #Traveling Wilburys #1988 #1980s #George and Tom Petty #George and Jeff Lynne #George and Roy Orbison #George and Bob Dylan #End Of The Line #fits queue like a glove

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frodo-with-glasses · 10 months

Text

25 Questions with Phil Dragash: YES, SERIOUSLY!

So y'all know how I was reviewing Phil Dragash's audiobook of LotR last year, but kinda fell off somewhere in the middle of Rohan?? Well, guess what! A couple weeks ago, I received a tumblr message from the man himself, saying he'd read through all my reviews, had really enjoyed the little blast from the past, and was open to answering questions if I had any!

So of course, I had LOTS of questions.

The first one being: "Are you actually the real Phil Dragash??"

But I'm delighted to say that after exchanging emails with the work email listed on his website, I can confidently say that it is the real dude, and I've had a blast chatting with him! So for those of you who urged I listen to this audiobook—especially @laurelindorenan for her glowing recommendation—and for everyone else who likes the audiobook and/or enjoyed my reviews: I am delighted to present, ladies and gentlehobbits, this peek behind the curtain!

But of course I'm putting it all below the cut, because this man rambles like I do 🤣

Obligatory disclaimer: All opinions presented by Mr. Dragash are his own, I am not necessarily condoning any of them; please do not come after me for his opinions regarding pineapple on pizza.

25 QUESTIONS, LET'S GO!

1. Tell me how you got into Lord of the Rings!

I was ten years old when my dad took me to the library, and found a VHS copy of Ralph Bakshi’s 1978 animated Lord of the Rings film. I was already a fan of the “Chronicles of Narnia” and my dad just handed the tape to me and said “Look, C.S. Lewis’s friend made this”. I watched it, and had no idea what was going on. It was so hard to understand.

Fast forward to the year 2002 when “Fellowship” was out on DVD, and we had a movie night at my older cousin’s place, and watched the film for the first time. My 13 year old self was enraptured by it. Dad bought the DVD first thing the next day, and I’ve been a fan ever since! I, my brother, and our dad watched “Return of the King” in theaters four times, which was saying something, considering we only ever saw a movie once in cinemas. Between “The Return of the King” opening in December ‘03, I picked up the books and read (as well as I could) through them. A lot of friends kept joking “tell us how the damn story ends!”, good times.

2. When and how did you decide to make this audiobook? What’s the story behind the entire project?

I was a very ambitious lad, and my first and biggest interest was filmmaking. I used to direct short films with my friends ever since my 11th birthday, and was the youngest in class at the filmschool I attended a few years later. So it shouldn’t be a surprise that I had massive ambitions to direct “the Hobbit”, which is silly in retrospect considering I was 16 years old at the time. I even sent my portfolio and DVDs of my films to Peter Jackson’s manager (who actually got back to me with a wonderful response, despite not being able to accept my ‘completely reasonable’ offer) When I was heartbroken and torn to pieces knowing I wouldn’t be directing the movie, a few more years went by, and I decided to reread some chapters of the “Lord of the Rings” books. I remember really well that this was late at night, laying in bed, and going through “King of the Golden Hall” and seeing how close to the movies it was, but also far more expanded. I thought “my extensive home-made short movies experience with sound design and sound mixing could work here, and I could just read a few chapters and try to make the soundscape as realistic as possible. Why not try it?”

So, the next day I tried. The first two chapters I tried were “King of the Golden Hall” and “A Journey in the Dark” (which partly answers your other question about that chapter). I was so absolutely surprised by how well it was going, that I decided to upload them onto YouTube in March 2010 I think. I got a fairly good response, and I was planning on doing a few more random chapters. I never intended to do the whole thing. But this one comment on YouTube I’ll always remember, it said: “I think you should go from start to finish, because you’ll probably get used to the characters and sounds and people can also follow along in the story gradually”.

Taking that suggestion to heart, in August 2010 I went from Chapter 1 onward.

3. Were you inspired by any other audiobook versions of LotR (such as the BBC radio drama)?

I was not, I actually haven’t listened to the BBC Radio drama until far ahead into the project I was doing. I did some research on what other audio productions anyone did with LOTR, from The Mind’s Eye edition, to the ‘60s Hobbit Radio Play; so I felt pretty confident. I just fell in love with the way the films brought Middle-Earth to life and seeing their incredible dedication for authenticity (from the props department, to the music), you really couldn’t do any better than that visually or audibly - at least in my opinion. I just wanted to hear Tolkien’s text but with the realisation of the films.

However, if you listen to Chapter 1 of TTT, and hear how Legolas laments their absence from not being there to help Boromir at Amon Hen, you can clearly hear the inflection from the BBC Radio play’s version. I just lifted that because I thought it was a fantastic way to deliver the line.

4. Did you have any rituals for “getting into character” before recording?

If I were to show you the raw unedited recording sessions, you’d probably be surprised at how underdeveloped it is! I had no real rituals or warmups, I just went for it. Usually went in cold, and tried reading the entire chapter and doing all the voices at once. Then I’d be exhausted, and afterwards start cutting all the mistakes, and separating each character into different tracks – and then re-recording 50%-70% of it, as I was laying in the sounds.

I think any character just needs a few words for me to say in their voice, and that helps for the rest of their dialogue. For Aragorn it was usually: “You cannot wield it! None of us can.” for Pippin it was: “Sometimes”, just random things that make things ‘click’ in my head. If I got lost or didn’t feel like the performances were working, I’d simply just watch scenes from the films to hear the real actors again!

5. Who was your favorite character to voice? Who was your least favorite? And why?

People who know me, know I love doing the villains. Sauron, the orcs, the Nazgûl, etc. I just love the idea of personifying things that scare you. Something completely the opposite of who you are. Always a fun time! Any character I can nail extremely accurately always makes me happy, but I’m always very critical of my own work, so it’s a rare thing.

My least favorite characters to voice are: Imrahil, Denethor, Arwen, Celeborn, Galadriel, Erestor, Lindir, Haldir, Goldberry, Gildor… I think the pattern is pretty obvious if you realize that I am incapable of providing a satisfactory voice that feels unique enough. They just sound to me like “I wish I had a broader range. They weren’t done justice.” I have feelings for most of the characters in this situation, but I’m a mere mortal. I can’t do all of them as well as I wish I could. I wish Aragorn was more like Viggo Mortensen’s voice (I tried with the nasally yells you mentioned!), I wish Gandalf had a richer tone, I wish Saruman sounded more majestic, and I wish Frodo was - in retrospect- more older sounding, too. There’s so much I wish I could do better, but to hell with it, I tried.

Fun fact: my least-favorite to voice are also Orcs because they destroy my throat after a while. Which is ironic, because of my first statement.

6. I noticed that you gave the men of Rohan and Gondor slightly different dialects! Are you pulling from any real-world accents to make that happen?

I did try to listen to Anglo-Saxon, and ancient norse but I just tried to make Rohan and Gondor slightly distinct in any way I could. I never really tried to make things too obvious, but admittedly, I think I just used my intuition (smoothing the R’s for the Rohirrim, making the Gondorians more ‘proper’, etc.). I do want to emphasize that this was a one-person project and keeping things together or consistent is definitely an extraneous exercise when you’re just trying to get something finished by yourself!

7. Some characters (like Beregond and Quickbeam, to name a couple of my favorites) aren’t in the movies, so they don’t have an actor for you to imitate. How did you decide what they would sound like?

Well, in the case of Beregond, I realized he was just “your ordinary guy”, and seeing Minas Tirith through his eyes (and Pippin’s) is such an amazing and interesting opportunity. It made the city feel so real, and I wanted to take advantage of that. I think I started with a ‘generic’ voice, but when I re-recorded him knowing more and more of the context and what he was saying to Pippin, and as a result who he is, made me adjust what I felt were more his personality. But still that ‘ordinary guy’ idea was the bedrock, and it’s been years since I heard that chapter, but I hope it holds up! (I just remembered Bergil is in that too, another voice I wish I could have done better)

Another fun fact: when Pippin scares the kids in Minas Tirith, the audio was from something I videotaped when I was 10 years old with my friends, it had the perfect “kids-going-aaah!” sound.

If I had it my way, I’d have a cast of dozens in this Audiobook, so a lot of times I never felt like my voice was enough to truly capture the “We’re in Middle-Earth, we just have microphones to record it” idea. So I have to make compromises since I was the only one doing the voices. That being said, Quickbeam was a fun surprise because he felt like, as you said “young treebeard”, and these things just worked out through experimentation! I think Quickbeam turned out pretty nice. I like Quickbeam.

8. HOW—I ask with great enthusiasm—DID YOU DO TREEBEARD’S VOICE? How did you get that resonance and woody sound? Did you send your voice through a wooden box and re-record it on the other side like they did in the movies?

It’s really great that you know all the behind the scenes stories from the films! Especially what Ethan Van der Ryn, David Farmer, and the late Michael Hopkins have done with their incredible creativity. I had no such resources to produce Treebeard’s sound. What I did was a digital facsimile: a special ‘room’ reverb, with some other equalizing effects to boost the bass and (maybe, I can’t remember) another higher pitched track of the same voice faintly in there.

You won’t believe this, but I was not going to do The Two Towers audiobook unless I could do a good Treebeard voice. In 2011 after finishing “Fellowship”, I was on the fence about continuing, and only committed once I knew I could do Treebeard right. Treebeard was the key to all this. This should come to no surprise to the ones who played the game, but I used a lot of sound effects from ‘Battle for Middle-Earth’ which contained a lot of clean sounds for ents, trolls, the balrog, the ringwraiths, and other monsters from the films. I used the ent’s footsteps from the games, and recorded my own foley for some of the trees snapping and leaves rustling as well. The “fart” sounds were the low creaking of tree branches, and - as they stated in the making-of for the films - very pitched down cow moos.

9. Tell me about the foley work! Ever since I was a kid, I’ve always been that nerd who watched the Behind The Scenes featurettes for fun, so I’m very interested to hear how you made the sound effects for footsteps and whistling arrows and jangling horse harnesses and such.

I’m glad you are! I’ve collected sound libraries (ripped from video games, and finding and buying sound packs) for a literal decade, because I always needed sounds for the short films I made when I was younger. I just kept learning about how to mix sounds together, and it’s very creative and very enjoyable! That being said, the foley work itself is mostly recorded by me. If I can’t find a sound in the library I have, I will record it. Clothing rustles, and touch are all recorded while I listen to the audiobook playback and ‘perform’ each character. It’s a really arduous process, but I think it adds so much life into the sound.

I went out into the woods (or backyard) with my mic to record footsteps, sometimes I would listen to the audiobook with headphones while performing the footsteps. When I would have traveled somewhere with different terrain I would be sure to record more foley (rocks being moved, or pebbles being stepped on) knowing I’ll use it for certain chapters. I do not want to reveal a huge secret about the predominant foley for the character's clothes, but an old backpack I used were 90% of the characters’ ‘movements’. Some wingflaps of the fell beasts were just my jeans. It’s a really creative process trying to find things that ‘sound’ right for an environment or action. The magic is putting them all together and hearing the result. Also, yes Sam’s pan is my grandma’s frying pan, and I know it’s sometimes annoying, but - look - Sam has a lot of stuff to carry.

I start with the background sounds (wind, tree rustles, water if there is any, etc.) lots of layers of them just to make them sound unique and not the same. Then I move to selective and nearer environmental background sounds. Then, the ‘hero’ sounds, the effects that are integral to the story (if it’s sword clashes, or an explosion, or who knows what), and finally the foley (footsteps, clothing rustles, breaths, etc.) - I had a friend record her own horses breathing and moving for a lot of closeups of the horses in the audiobooks. I think even if you can’t really hear some of their low breaths, their presence is still ‘there’. I personally think I got a lot better by the end of LOTR than when I started!

I wanted to add, the sounds for little Elanor in the very last scene of “The Return of the King” (the baby sounds), I was not happy with the stock baby sounds I had, and asked my older cousin (an audio person too!) to send me recordings he made of his then-1-year-old daughter in a studio. So, my first-cousin-once-removed is Elanor! She’s 22 now. I feel old.

10. Do you have a favorite sound effect from this project? Mine is the “pat-pat” against cloth that’s used to denote a hug.

Absolutely, do you remember the two “watchers” before the tower of Cirith Ungol? The vulture-like statues that block the hobbit’s path out? The alarm sound is a wholly original sound design I did, and I’m really happy with it. It’s just ugly sounding, and that’s the point. I always wished I had more Nazgul, and I think the worst moments I had with mixing were the battle scenes. There’s just too much to handle and make it sound good. But I really tried.

I’m very glad you heard the ‘pat-pat’s. I try my best to perform every character when recording foley, and want even some of the sounds to convey something in the telling of the story.

11. What's the thought process behind your use of the various musical motifs from Howard Shore's score? (Read: Why do you use the Shire theme so often, and why does it get me in the heart every single time?)

I want everyone to know that this is a really important and valuable question, and one I never really get to talk about: To me, Howard Shore’s music is one of the very best things to come out of the films. He truly made an opera out of the story, and all his leitmotifs and orchestrations are a stroke of genius. They work on their own, and when reading the books as well, and as a nerd for films and all that stuff, I wanted to put a lot of care into how I’m placing the score, and for what scene, emotionally and leitmotivically, if that’s a word.

The Audiobook I did is obviously a ‘standing on the shoulders of giants’ situation, so I can’t credit myself for the majority of the Audiobook I did, but I wanted to use all my filmmaking intuition to properly use the music to enhance the telling of the story. So, just like the filmmakers had to change and mix lines from the book, or make changes to make it work as a film, I felt like a lot of instances happened with the music for the audiobook. Obviously, I used the score when applicable to the intended scenes, but there are very often cases where they won’t work. I read as much as I could in the past about what the motifs were and where Shore used them in the movies, so I followed that trajectory for the most part. Gondor is Gondor, Rohan is Rohan, Mordor is Mordor, etc.

Changes happen when I feel the emotions for a scene in the books do not match up to the ones in the films, and then there are brand new scenes and characters not in the movies at all, that I have to figure out! Take the pause from music between Gandalf falling into the chasm with the Balrog, and the fellowship successfully escaping. It’s perfect in the film, but I knew I couldn’t put the lamenting heartbreaking music in there yet, since the descriptions all drive the idea that escape is paramount. So I treated it as a ‘shock’ moment. No music until they’re completely out of the mountain, then the grief comes in. Things like that, a lot of fun creative thinking to get those emotions working!

I recall you mentioning the ‘Gimli / Legolas drinking game’ statement and how I used the hell out of it throughout the Audiobook, which is a good example. I pitched it up and down, for different moments, and it just has that hobbit mundane and jolly quality to it. So, in it goes to fill moments from the books.

I also edited and modified existing motifs for completely different scenes and ideas. One of my favorites is when Treebeard talks about the Entwives. I needed this melancholy yearning sound that was really essential, and found it by reversing Eowyn’s theme, and pitching it down so the violin sounds like a cello/bass. To me it just felt extremely appropriate for the sound of a long-lost relationship while portraying a larger-than-life creature.

Let’s also say Bombadil. I made up the idea that the last statement in the credits for “Return of the King”, was Bombadil’s theme. It’s actually just a reference to Der Ring des Nibelungen by Wagner, a very verbose beautiful crescendo, but I thought “I’ll pretend like it’s Bombadil, he’s last in the score even though he’s the first in Arda”. So I used that musical progression in his songs, that’s his leitmotif now (to me, anyway) He sings in that wavy up-and-down melody. Which is why you hear a lot of that in those chapters.

I also try to use recordings not from the original score: I looked far and wide for alternative recordings, predominantly the album by the Royal Prague Philharmonic, and the “LOTR Symphony”, just to make the Audiobooks feel different. I pitched down and moved and reassembled a lot of different cues for different scenes as well.

There are not a lot of instances of music from other movies, however, they do exist! I used music from “Battle for Middle-Earth”, the game “War in the North”, and for the last few chapters, “The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey” since it just came out at the time. I used a lot of music from Howard Shore’s “Seven” and “The Game” during Shelob (I think), and for the Barrow-Downs. I used a tiny bit of underscore from the brilliant Don Davis’s “The Matrix Reloaded”, it had a really eerie choir which made me feel like it would be perfect for the fatigue and dizzying unreality of Mordor when Sam and Frodo were on their last leg, trying to get to Mt. Doom. Lastly, I used a little bit of music from Howard Shore’s “Twilight: Eclipse” for some dialogue scenes during Return of the King! And music from the independent film “Mongol” by Tuomas Kantelinen for the Woses when Theoden has to get help from Ghan-Buri-Ghan. Also the ending of ROTK has a few cues from “The Lord of the Rings musical”, lovely stuff.

It may surprise you that there is a small amount of score I actually ‘wrote’ with help from my brother (he’s a musician). It’s in the coronation of Elessar. It’s not very good but I needed something. There is also a cello version of “to the edge of night”, which I kindly asked permission to use by YouTube celloist, but I sadly don't think that video is up anymore.

Lastly, I use the Shire music so much because - just like Howard Shore said - it becomes a ‘hymn’ or an ‘anthem’ for the hobbits as they leave their comforts behind and are in a wide and unfamiliar world. Every little bit that reminds them of home, or relates to each of them, usually deserves a little ‘shire’ statement here and there. I feel if it’s in the characters’ hearts and minds, it has to be expressed in the music!

12. Out of all the chapters I’ve listened to so far on the Internet Archive, “A Journey in the Dark” is the one most plagued with editing issues; Sam’s temper tantrum over leaving Bill the Pony is cut out entirely. Which is a shame, because I was really looking forward to hearing your take on that. (Is it strange to say that I wanted to hear you break down into blubbering tears? Probably. Let’s ignore that and move on.) Is there any chance that you have a cleaner edit of that chapter somewhere?

I think you’ll be very unsurprised to know that “A Journey in the Dark” is the first chapter I ever recorded. I think you’ll also need to know that I did FOTR when I was 21 years old, and my grasp on doing better sound mixing or even getting the characters right was still a work in progress. I learned so much going chapter-by-chapter and felt that each succeeding one improves from the former. As a demo-run, I did “King of the Golden Hall '' and “Journey in the Dark” in early 2010 (in fact, I did only the first half of “JITD” back then. Stopping right after they are barred inside the mines, as the Watcher destroys the gate. I did the second half once I caught up with the story going chapter-by-chapter.)

There are so many issues with it, and I haven’t listened to it since. If you have headphones you’ll also notice that none of the voices really pan from left to right, or feel like they’re ever anywhere else except the dead-center. I was lazy back then.

When I read the chapters, at the time, I was sharing an ‘office room’ with my younger brother, and as a teenaged younger brother does - continues strumming his guitar no matter what the other brother is doing. It was really fun, and funny and I was extremely sloppy with editing things out, and taking it too seriously. So, for sure you can hear ‘someone’ in the background during the early parts of FOTR, and I was too lazy to re-record or edit out the noises that weren’t supposed to be there.

Forgive me if this part is a lot longer, but now that you mention it, I want to get on my soap-box and rant about how many things I agree with about the Audiobook’s shortcomings and how many things have changed since the wee days of 2010:

I didn’t really get a grasp on the characters, and I had no idea I was going to do the entire book. I did not take enough care with sound mixing (it’s a highly technical and rigorous practice, I’ve discovered. Even now, ten plus years later - it’s too technical for me to fully understand yet), and I did not thoroughly re-listen to the chapter when I was done with an edit or a sound-effects pass. Therefore there’s always been mistakes still in there, and just unpleasantly careless placement of sounds and music. I have often thought about re-recording it to get it up to scratch, but it’s been over a decade and I haven’t properly preserved all the sound stems without having to re-sound-mix the whole chapter again, and there is that little thing called ‘burnout’ which is hard to ignore. So, I apologize to everyone who has to suffer through that huge drop in quality with “A Journey in the Dark”. It quite literally was my first attempt, and it definitely shows.

The good news is that a fan asked me the same thing about the missing piece in that chapter (the one you mentioned! With Sam and Bill!), and I’ve heard the same comments about it throughout the years. Why is it missing? I don’t know why! I recorded it, but in my loose run-and-gun past when I was a wee lad, I was careless, and just had the mp3 with that part missing. A rendering error, perhaps! Stupid 21 year old Phil just hodgepoging everything.

A Few months ago, I did get another email about that missing piece. I thought “okay, once and for all, I’m going to find that missing part.” - and I searched my old harddrives for some kind of archival copy with that part in it. Amazingly, it was a lot harder to find than I thought. Every rendered version of JITD either stopped right before that scene, or had it omitted. I actually found one half of it as a ‘demo’ piece I rendered years ago for a ‘sound trailer’, and then I finally found the original YouTube video I made - which had it intact! Now the hardest part was stitching it together with the rest. Took longer than I thought, but I finally amended this horrible incompetence. And yes, I will share the link to you! And be prepared to be disappointed at the 2010-era quality!

I don’t know if anyone knows this, but with the mp3s circling around, I have taken the liberty of re-recording and re-working some chapters from their original versions. I try my best to preserve the originals, but I also wish people to listen to the re-records. I have actually re-recorded and re-mastered “A Long-Expected Party” three times. 2011, 2013, and 2014. I re-recorded “King of the Golden Hall” in 2013, and “Shadow of the Past” in 2014. I usually try labelling the dates on the mp3 files themselves. The one I’m most proud of re-recording bits of, is “The Pyre of Denethor” as the first time I had Denethor say his last words he was mildly raising his voice, but I listened to it again one day and went “this man should be at the edge of sanity.” - so he absolutely yells now, and it’s such a night-and-day comparison.

Another addendum: I completely understand the complaints about ‘the sound/music drowning out the dialogue’. It’s been the #1 complaint over the decade. I completely understand. I never had professional sound mixing gear, nor did I have proper mixing headphones or speakers or a proper studio (most of the audiobook was recorded at my grandmother’s house!). The balance of the audio making it sound immersive, (like you are there!) and having clear dialogue to hear is - like I said - an extremely technical and complex process that I’ve never had the ability or tech to master. Let alone for a book that’s 48 hours long, and has so much sound and music to it. Nothing would bring me more joy than to work with an experienced sound mixer, and find all my audio stems, and for us to work together to clear up any and all issues. But as this project was a simple fan-made work, and I haven’t distributed it myself for a decade, who knows?

This is also why I never went on to do “The Hobbit”. Burnout is real, and I’ve never recovered from LOTR. The burnout… “it’s never really healed, Sam.”

13. What was your favorite scene to record and mix?

Mount Doom. Can’t get better than trying to make the climax as horrible and eucatastrophic as that. It all led up to this, and it was such a rush to work on. I remember how I was at the edge of my seat watching ROTK in cinemas for the first time, and how amazingly they pulled it off, and I wanted to definitely imitate that, but using Tolkien’s own writing. Just so cool.

I have two favorite chapters: The first one is “The Scouring of the Shire”. I remember well, when I was working on it, I realized this has never been ‘dramatized’ before. At least not in full. I felt so special being the first one (probably) to do it. I could imagine the entire chapter in my head like a film, and I could bring it to life with very little outside influence. Such a poignant and shocking chapter.

I don’t think I would have done it as well without the experience I gained doing the rest of the Audiobook. Showing the strength of the four hobbits, portraying the dignity and resolve of their kind, giving that pathetic yet dangerous authenticity to Sharkey, and the ruffians, illustrating the battle of bywater with sound… this was done in 2013, so we all were able to listen to new music by Howard Shore (for The Hobbit), and I would be able to transpose motifs from that, into “Scouring”, and honestly I wouldn’t know how it would have worked out if the Hobbit films didn’t come out just at the right time. I think the score fits so well with the events of “Scouring”, there is a ‘mordor’ theme but it feels ‘unfinished’, like the remnant of an old defeated foe; there’s that wily progression for Radagast in the films, that I used for the hobbit’s rebellion and the conflict, and there’s a new ‘hobbit/shire’ motif that worked so perfectly for a ‘wounded, but recovering’ Shire. I feel so silly talking about decisions I made for this, but I always wanted to share some thoughts I had!

Fun fact: I had a wonderful person ask if she would be able to play Rosie Cotton back in 2013, and I asked her to perform her lines. She was great, but I realized a very strange thing: when I put her in the audio mix, it would actually break the immersion, because you can hear a voice that wasn’t mine, and as a result - I couldn’t help but keep thinking - my voice for Rosie’s mother sounded like a Monty Python skit in comparison! And thus her lines had to be unused. It kind of just opened the fourth wall, breaking the illusion. Which is a shame, because I always dream of having a fully-cast LOTR Audiobook, maybe someday officially.

The other favorite is “The Tower of Cirith Ungol” just because I listened to it one day in 2014, and heard no errors. I was so proud. I couldn’t think of anything I wanted to change substantially. No one dislikes all the errors more than I do!

14. What’s your best memory from this entire project?

My late dad drove me and my brother out into a clearing at midnight in the forest. The sky was so clear and starry. And we were here simply to just yell at the top of our lungs to record material for “Helm’s Deep”. All the clear yells: “Elendil!!!” “Gúthwinë! Gúthwinë For the Mark!”etc. Etc. - I lost my voice, it was a fun time. He held the microphone for me as I splashed around a stream (for Gollum), once again at midnight since there were fewer background sounds.

I also tell this story a lot: A friend of mine who was listening to the chapters as I finished them - she hated the sound of knuckles cracking. And hated spiders. So, obviously, Shelob would have to have knuckle-cracking sounds for her limbs. So I recorded my own knuckles cracking and tried using it as much as I could for Shelob’s legs moving about. My friend was soooo ecstatic to know this fact.

15. If you could do it all again today, what would you change?

I would consider doing a ground-up re-recording of everything. With a budget, with a cast, with a lot more understanding of the story and intentions behind them. With VR sound options. With extra original music. That’s the dream.

If we’re back to reality, I guess I’d just re-record a bunch of chapters since they could always be better, and tighten all the technical errors. But that would require a lot of assembling of the raw archived files, and re-building of sounds, and re-recording of lines. Also, as I stated before, I do not want to distribute my unofficial fan work just because I know that it’s a copyright nightmare. And burnout… “it’s never really healed, Sam.”

I like taking other people’s opinions to heart, such as the issues with Frodo’s youth or inflections and intonations for certain scenes that I didn’t quite fully grasp the first time. I would love to adjust things and make it closer to the book now.

- - - - -

And now! The Silly Questions Lightning Round!

(With thoughts from Lady Glasses in parentheses and italics!)

1. In Fellowship, long stretches of dialogue would often have someone randomly cough in the background. Tell me about the Cough. Why is the Cough there?

No one hates the coughs more than me. That’s either my brother minding his own business in the other end of our ‘office room’. I think you now know I was 21, I didn’t care, so these things are just left in because I was careless. However, sometimes there are intentional coughs to make it feel more realistic. It’s been years since I listened to it, so unless I somehow do a massive commentary stream someday (thinking about it), your guess will be as good as mine! The coughs heavily subsided once I did Two Towers, since I was by myself.

2. During the dinner scene with Farmer Cotton, someone burps. Who was that?

Mine. I have no regrets with that one. Or Pippin. I guess it could be Pippin.

(Darn! And here I thought it was Farmer Cotton, LOL)

3. How did you manage to make Bill Ferny’s voice so perfectly obnoxious?

I imagined Bill as an obnoxious guy. The image in my head gives me a good idea of what he’d sound like, and I’m so glad he’s so obnoxious that you had to mention it.

(He sounds perfectly punchable. Thanks, I hate it.)

4. Did you crack yourself up at any point in the recording?

Oh yes, in fact I have a whole outtake reel just for you!

(Warning to anyone who clicks the link: the April Fool's audio had me ON THE FLOOR)

5. Voice acting aside, who is your favorite character in LotR and why?

If you asked me in 2002 it would be the Balrog, if you asked me now it would be difficult because so many of them mean so much to me, and each of their aspects have something to aspire to. Gandalf, Aragorn, Sam, Frodo, Galadriel, the list goes on and on.

(That's beautiful, and so true. The story really grows with us, doesn't it?)

6. What’s your favorite color?

Blue. Always has been.

(Blue is a good color! 💙)

7. Political question: Pineapples on pizza, yes or no?

Yes, I still don’t get what the fuss is about

(Oooh, controversial)

8. Is a hotdog a sandwich?

No, it’s a hotdog!

(Counterpoint: A hotdog is a taco.)

9. What’s your opinion on geese?

They’re racist

(Racist against the entire human race, apparently)

10. How much would I have to pay you to say “I love boats!” in Merry’s voice? (It’s an inside joke with my friends.)

Nothing, it’s on the house!

(HOLY CRAP I LOVE YOU)

- - - - -

Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us! What are you working on nowadays?

I’ve actually had a few people ask me if I’ll ever do more audiobooks like this, and I seem to have tapped something. Yes, in fact! I’m working with a few creative collaborators on a small company to do the exact same sonic experience with other books! Since we’re very small, we are starting with stories in the Public Domain, and have successfully kickstarted (and finished) “The Jungle Book” by Rudyard Kipling. Which will be out (hopefully, officially) by early September! I’m really excited and hope this will lead to more projects, and - hopefully- back to Tolkien someday, in an official manner. Please follow my Instagram or Facebook for more info about it. (I also have a Twitter and Tumblr and more, but they’re all completely unrelated to LOTR and are just me drawing doodles and being a nerd, very unlike the Audiobooks I did, which is a bit confusing, I admit.)

- - - - -

And that concludes our interview! As I told Phil, it was so much fun to discuss a fellow fan's passion project like this. The more I read about it, the more I realized just how similar it was to my own experiences as a fan creator. We all start out as just a noob with a few unpolished skills, making something because we love it, and we learn and grow and hone our talents along the way. It's legitimately inspiring.

Needless to say, I am stoked to finish listening to the rest of this audiobook! Is it a bit weird knowing the creator of the thing might drop in and read my reviews?? Yes. Yes it is. But I'm gonna do it anyway. No holds barred! If I hear another cough, you're gonna know about it, Phil!

Also I may or may not do something with that audio of Merry because I'M STILL DYING OF LAUGHTER HELP

Anyway! If you made it to the end of this, you deserve a cookie! Everybody say thank you to Mr. Dragash, and go check out the other stuff he's doing nowadays! Namárië!

#phil dragash #audiobook #lotr audiobook #interview #CATCH ME SCREAMING ABOUT THIS FOR THE NEXT TWO WEEKS

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burntheedges-updates · 9 months

Text

over again, epilogue: together

Joel Miller x f!reader | 18+ minors DNI | word count: 6.4k

summary: you fell in love with Joel Miller in Austin, Texas, in 2001, but you thought you lost him and your whole family in 2003 when the world turned upside down. now it's 2024, and you find the surprise of your life waiting for you in Jackson, Wyoming. or, five times you and Joel fell deeper in love, on both sides of the apocalypse (and one time you did something about it) chapter tags/warnings: fluff, flirting, banter, light angst, kissing, pet names (darlin’, baby, honey, pretty girl), Joel calls reader a good girl, neck grabbing (no breath play), light manhandling, grinding, oral (f receiving), oral (m receiving), deepthroating, light choking, p in v sex (no condom this time, but use a condom, y’all), creampie, praise kink, light anal play, face sitting, if I missed anything please let me know! a/n: I cannot believe this is the last part (this is the +1 - the time they did something about it). I hope you enjoy it. Please let me know what you think!

series main post | series playlist | ao3 ch 1 | ch 2 | ch 3 | ch 4 | ch 5

This is my updates-only blog! Follow me at @burntheedges

Epilogue: Together

Austin, December 2002

Almost two years in, and sometimes you couldn’t believe how happy you were with Joel. Almost two and a half, really, if you counted the 6 months you spent getting to know each other but holding yourselves back.

You had a memorable second Christmas together – you stayed with the Millers for your entire holiday break from teaching, only running next door to your house to get random things you needed as they came up. Sarah, then 13, had been excited about it for weeks, though her excitement hadn’t died down after Christmas itself. You weren’t sure why, but she was still practically bouncing off the walls of the Miller household. Joel easily agreed to let her go to a New Year’s sleepover to burn off some of her energy.

A couple of days before New Year’s Eve you came back from a grocery run to an empty house. You knew Tommy had driven Sarah to the mall, but Joel should’ve been there somewhere. You called for him and heard a thump from the backyard, so you set down your bags and wandered out to see what he was up to. You found him up on a ladder, hammer in hand, string lights trailing over his shoulder and already secured in other places on the tall fence around the backyard.

“What’s all this?” you asked, coming to stand beside the ladder to steady it. It had rained earlier, but now it was just foggy and a little chilly. For Texas, anyway. You shivered.

Joel grunted, voice muffled by the nail he was holding with his lips. “I wanted to do something nice for Sarah for New Year’s.”

“Isn’t she going to that sleepover?”

“Yeah, but she’ll be back the next day. Thought we could celebrate it together.” You rested your hand on his ankle and smiled up at him. He was such a good dad, always thinking of little details like this that would brighten her day.

“Need any help?”

“No, I’m ‘bout done. Hey, could you go make us some coffee? Maybe we can sit out here for a bit when I’m done, think about what else we could do to decorate.”

“Sure, baby.” You squeezed his ankle and headed off to do just that.

It took you about 20 minutes to put away the groceries and make some coffee the way you both liked it. By the time you wandered back outside, Joel had finished the lights and put away the ladder. The string lights were glowing softly all around the back yard. You smiled a little, noticing that he’d also put down a large blanket in the middle of the yard and set up the boombox nearby.

“¡Que Bonito!” was playing quietly, but Joel was nowhere to be seen.

“Joel? You out here?”

You whirled to your left, careful with the coffee, as he cleared his throat from behind you, near the door to the house. Somehow he’d managed to sneak in and change without you noticing. He was wearing a black button up and nicer jeans than he had been 20 minutes ago.

Before you could ask what was going on, he walked towards you and took the coffees from you, setting them carefully on the low table the boom box was sitting on. “Come here, darlin’.” He guided you into a slow dance, starting to sway back and forth.

“What’s the occasion?”

He hummed, pulling you closer. “Just dance with me, pretty girl.”

You realized he wasn’t going to tell you, at least not yet, so you relaxed into it. You rested your face on his chest as he rested his cheek on top of your head.

You swayed gently together, and the soft glow of the new string lights made everything feel soft and romantic. You sighed and let yourself sink into him.

When the song ended you felt Joel tense a little. You tried to raise your head, but he suddenly relaxed and tucked your head back to his chest with his left hand. You realized the next track was “Amazed,” and you started to smile.

Sure enough, Joel ducked his head and put his lips right to your ear as he started to sing along softly with the song. You closed your eyes and let his deep voice wash over you.

I don't know how you do what you do I'm so in love with you It just keeps gettin' better I wanna spend the rest of my life With you by my side Forever and ever Every little thing that you do Baby I'm amazed by you

He sang through the first chorus, but then trailed off. He slowly stopped swaying you back and forth. You raised your head, and he let you this time. His eyes caught yours as he stepped back from you, your brow furrowed in confusion as he took a deep breath.

And then he dropped to one knee.

Your hands flew up to cover your mouth, eyes wide, as Joel reached into his pocket and revealed a small black box. Your whole body was tingling and you sucked in a sharp breath.

He said your name softly as he opened the box, not breaking eye contact once.

“I was planning to wait until New Year’s Eve, bring you out here at midnight and ask you to spend the rest of your life with me. But when you came home earlier, you looked so goddamn beautiful and so right, here in our home. I couldn’t wait any longer.

“Darlin’, I started falling in love with you standing in my driveway, watching you smile at me and our daughter over those bushes. I didn’t let myself admit it right away, but that’s the truth of it. And then I spent months falling deeper and deeper, sitting with you on your back porch, ‘n every new thing I learned about you just pulled me in more. But I was stuck in my own fear until that day you watched over our girl and took such good care of her and told me you loved her. And I knew it then. I knew you were the one for me, the one for us, and I needed to stop being so afraid to let you in.”

You realized you’d started crying and you wiped away your tears, a huge smile taking over your face. Joel watched you intently and visibly powered through it instead of reaching out to you.

“Every moment with you blows me away, baby. I didn’t think I would ever be this happy. I want to spend the rest of my life making you smile just like that, hearing about your day, watching you be a mom to our little girl, holding you when you need comfort, marveling at how smart you are. I want to bump shoulders in the kitchen as we do dishes together and catch you as you stumble when you’re too tired after a night of dancing to make it up the stairs. I want to dance with you every day, even when we’re old and our backs hurt with every step. I want to watch you watch our daughter grow up. I want to see you every morning when I wake up and I want your cold feet to snuggle under mine in bed. I want to spend every night in bed with you, touching you and kissing you and making you come so hard your legs shake.” He grins and winks at you, and you laugh. You can’t help it.

“I love you so much, darlin’. I want to take the long way with you. I want you here, with us, together, for the rest of our days. Will you marry me?”

You flung yourself at him before he even finished the question, and he caught you around the waist, laughing and keeping the both of you from toppling over.

“Yes! I love you so much, Joel Miller. Yes, I’ll marry you. I want all of that too. I want it so bad, baby.” He grinned at you, and you saw he’d teared up a bit too. You were both a mess, teary and smiling, as he slipped the ring onto your finger.

You both looked at it for a moment, stunned, before he took your hand and raised it to his lips, kissing the back of your fingers with his eyes closed. He whispered, “I never saw you coming, darlin’, you took my breath away from the first moment.” He opened his eyes and when he met your gaze he smiled, slow. “Come here, pretty girl.” He pulled you in by your hand and drew you into a deep, slow kiss that stole your breath. With his left hand at your back he lowered you onto the blanket he’d put out, nestled under the trees.

Joel hovered over you, pressing small kisses all over your face and trailing down your neck. You threaded your fingers through his hair and sighed.

“Let me make you feel good, baby.” He moved to take off your clothes at the same time your hands moved to his buttons. After a bit of laughter and fumbling, both of you were stripped bare, right there in the yard, hidden by the trees. He looked down at you from where he hovered above you on all fours, cock already hard and hanging heavy between his legs.

“Look at you, beautiful. Laid out for me all perfect, wearing nothing but my ring.” He dipped down to pull your nipple into his mouth, and you moaned. “That’s right baby, let me hear you.” He reached over and turned up the volume on the boombox slightly.

You moved your left hand to cup his face, and he immediately turned into it to kiss where your ring sat on your finger. “What do you want, pretty girl?”

You reached down and held his cock lightly in your right hand. You wanted what you knew would drive him over the edge – what always made him lose control. “I want you to fuck my face, baby.”

He groaned, dropping his head to your chest. “Fuck.”

“I want you to come up here and feed me your cock. Come on, cowboy.” You moved your hands to his hips and urged him forward.

“Baby, I want–“ he started to protest.

You pulled his head up so he had to meet your gaze. “Fuck. My. Mouth.” You could see him shudder, his eyes blown wide as his mouth dropped open. He scrambled to do as you asked.

His big thighs came up to surround you, sturdy on either side of your head. You hummed, pleased. He leaned forward to find the right angle and you stuck out your tongue to meet the tip of his cock as it lowered towards your face. He groaned loudly. His hips moved closer, suddenly, like it was out of his control. You opened your mouth and extended your tongue, flat.

Joel was breathing fast, but he lowered his hips perfectly so that the head of his cock landed right on your tongue. You realized he must have been watching and tilted your head back to look. You met his gaze, upside down, his head hanging between his shoulders. He looked completely undone and you’d barely touched him. You smiled as he slowly sank the head of his cock into your wide open mouth.

He groaned as he pushed inside, not too far yet. He knew you loved this, and he fucking loved it too, but he was always a little afraid of hurting you at first. Always cautious. You positioned your mouth and throat so that he could push father, but he pulled back out and you hummed. You reached up and lightly slapped his ass cheek before grabbing his hips to urge him forward.

“Ok, baby, ok. I just don’t want to choke you.” He breathed out a laugh, sounding completely wrecked. You pinched his ass. “Ok, I know, I don’t want to choke you too much.” This time he sank down further and you tried to open your throat to welcome him in. You swirled your tongue over his shaft as the tip of his cock kissed the back of your throat.

“Fuck, fuck, fuck baby that feels so fucking good. Fuck.” He pulled back out and, a bit faster, thrust back inside. You hummed and squeezed your thighs together at the feeling. You were already getting wet.

Slowly, steadily, he started to actually fuck into your mouth. You encouraged him with your hands on his ass and your moans every time he went a little bit farther, a little bit deeper. You could hear him, cursing and murmuring quietly about how good it was, but the blood started to rush in your ears as he settled into it.

You pressed your tongue to the tip of his cock the next time he pulled out and then sucked, hard, on his next thrust. His hips jumped forward and his cock sank slightly farther into your throat. You choked, just a little, and immediately held onto his ass to keep him from pulling out. “Oh baby, your mouth is fucking perfect,” he growled, accepting that you wanted him right there, down your throat, not moving until you let him. “You want to choke on it that bad? You got it, pretty girl.”

He started thrusting a little deeper, pushing the head of his cock into your throat every time. You moaned, encouraging him, and realized tears were streaming down your face. You clenched your thighs together, pussy dripping wet, overcome by the sound and the feeling of him starting to use your throat.

On his next thrust you slipped a finger in between his ass cheeks and his hips stuttered forward, almost sinking his entire cock into your mouth. Joel cried out as you choked and your throat tightened around him, before pulling out suddenly and yanking you up the blanket towards him.

“Holy fucking shit, baby, what did I do to deserve you? Such a good fucking girl for me. You take my cock so fucking well.” He wiped the tears from your eyes and leaned down to lick across your lips before kissing you deeply, tasting himself and groaning loudly. “I need to be inside you, pretty girl.”

“You were, baby.” Your voice was husky, throat a little raw, and he shuddered at the sound.

“Let me fuck this pretty pussy, baby, I want to make you feel good.” He lifted your knees to your chest, opening you up to him. “I need to put my cock inside this perfect little hole. Fill it up.”

“I do feel good, Joel.” You smiled, dreamily, watching him look at your pussy and lick his lips.

“I can see that, honey.” You were sure the look on your face was totally blissed out. It’s how you felt. “I want you to feel even better.” As he said it his fingers moved from your legs to your pussy and he moaned. “You’re so fucking wet, is this just from sucking my cock?” You nodded. “Such a good fucking girl for me. Getting so wet just from having my cock in your mouth. Like I already filled you up and you’re dripping, leaking everywhere. So needy, baby.”

“I love your cock, Joel. Love the way it tastes. Love choking on it.” You reached for him, but he leaned down before you could pull him towards you and licked your pussy, tongue flat, from your hole to your clit. You whined and fisted your hands in the blanket.

��You taste good too, baby. So fucking good.” He lowered his head again and slipped his tongue inside of you, holding you open with his hands behind your thighs. You squirmed, trying to thrust your hips towards his mouth. He twisted his tongue, closed his mouth over your hole, and sucked lightly. You moaned.

He pulled his face away, gasping. “I need to be inside you, baby.”

You nodded, pulling him towards you. His eyes were dark and his gaze burned into you, making your breath stutter.

“I’m going to fuck your so good, honey. ‘M going to fill this tight little hole, stuff it full of my cock, stretch you open and make it mine.” He leaned down and kissed you as the tip of his cock nestled at your entrance, your legs still wide open for him.

“It’s already yours, Joel. I’m all yours.”

“That’s right, baby. For the rest of our lives.” With that, he pushed forward and sank his cock inside you, slowly, inch by inch. You threw your head back and whined as his hips met yours. You felt stretched full, a perfect fit. He stopped there and watched you for a moment before leaning down and kissing you, so softly and gently it made your breath catch.

He moved his lips to your ear and whispered, softly, “I am going to ruin this pretty pussy, baby.”

You moaned, clenching down on his cock and twisting your fingers through his hair. “Please, Joel. Do it.”

He moved his face back above yours, giving you a cocky half smile. He pulled out slowly, met your eyes, and then slammed back into you. You could feel your chest heaving as he set a wild pace, strokes fast and deep. You thrust your hips to meet his, panting. He moved his left hand to where it belonged, holding the back of your neck in a strong grip as he held himself up on his elbows.

Joel leaned down slowly towards you, the move totally at odds with the devastating pace he was setting with his cock. You could feel his breath on your lips. He slipped his tongue towards you and brushed it lightly along your bottom lip, teasing you, holding your neck in place when you tried to surge forward to meet him. The soft pressure combined with the feeling of his cock hitting you just right inside made you whine and close your eyes.

“That’s it, baby. You’re always such a good girl, fucking taking what I give you like you were made to do it.” He leaned to the right and nipped lightly at your jaw. You tried to tilt your head to give him more room but his grip on your neck held you in place, right where he wanted you. He shifted his weight to his left elbow, picking up his right hand and grasping your hip to encourage you as you met his thrusts. He scraped his teeth down your neck.

“Being with you feels like a miracle, baby. It’s so fucking good every time. A man could lose himself in this pussy.” His hips stuttered. “Wish I could stay right here inside you all damn day.”

You felt tears forming at the corners of your eyes as he kept his steady pace, fucking into you, holding your body where he wanted it. “Joel, please.” You couldn't help but beg him even though you didn’t know what you were begging for. You scratched your nails down his back, feeling his muscles moving beautifully under his skin.

“Shhh, let me give it to you. Just take it, honey. That’s it. Be my good girl.” You held your breath as he whispered in your ear, as his right hand moved to your clit. He began to dance his fingers over it in time with his thrusts and you suddenly felt your orgasm, which had been building steadily, coming for you like a meteor.

“Joel!”

As you cried out his name, you felt yourself clench around his cock, coming so hard you swore you heard ringing in your ears. He moaned your name, low and guttural, and sank his teeth into your shoulder. His hips stuttered and his fingers pinched lightly at your clit as both of you flew over the edge. His orgasm stirred yours higher and your hands went lax. You saw stars dancing in your vision as he ground his cock into you, almost smothering you with his weight.

His hips stilled, but neither of you moved. You both sucked in deep breaths and tried to slow your racing hearts. You could feel his in his chest, beating strong and fast.

Slowly, Joel lifted his head to meet your gaze. You realized with sudden alarm that he was crying.

“Baby, what–”

He cut you off with a kiss, so soft and gentle it soothed you. He whispered your name.

“How did I get so lucky as to find you, honey?” He spoke right into your mouth, seeming unable to move back, unable to stop kissing you. “I’ve never been so happy. Never knew it could be like this.”

You mustered the strength to move your arms, slipping them around his waist. “I’m the lucky one, Joel. I’ve never been loved this good. No one’s ever come close. I didn’t even realize what I was missing before you.”

He hummed, kissing along your jaw softly. “Maybe we’re both lucky. Sure do fit together like this is how it’s meant to be.” He ground his hips into yours a bit, emphasizing his point. You laughed.

“Well, you know how much I love your cock.”

He smiled, but hid it in your neck, licking and kissing his way down and back up. “Just my cock? I see how it is.” He kissed your ear before biting down on it lightly.

You laughed again, and considered continuing the joke, but you couldn’t. Not that day. You moved your hands up to take his face gently between them, bringing his gaze to meet yours.

“I love you, Joel Miller, every part of you, with all of my heart. I can’t wait to marry you. Every part of me belongs to you and our family. I never want to be without you ever again.” He looked stunned and then he smiled so wide you couldn’t help but return it.

“We’re getting married.” He looked elated as he said it, like he’d forgotten and only just remembered. You grinned.

“Yeah, cowboy, we are. You even swept me off my feet.” You kicked at his ankles a bit, reminding him. He laughed.

Slowly, he reached down to pull out of you, humming as he felt his cum spill out of you with his cock. He fingered you lightly, pushing it around and making a mess. You raised your eyebrows at him and he grinned ruefully. “Ok, ok.”

He moved to the side and laid down, pulling you in so your head was resting on his chest and your leg was thrown over his. He tugged the part of the blanket you weren’t lying on over the two of you, holding you tight against him. You knew you’d want to go inside and clean up soon — you’d started to notice again how chilly it was — but for now you relaxed into his embrace. You were both quiet, reveling in the moment.

“I feel like you should have something, too,” you mused.

“What do you mean?” Joel picked up your left hand from where it rested on his chest and toyed with your ring before kissing your fingers. “I’ll get my own ring real soon.”

“I just want to get you something. Like, an engagement watch or belt buckle or something.”

Joel burst into laughter, eyes crinkling. “A belt buckle? Baby, I don’t think that’s a thing.”

You narrowed your eyes at him and tried not to laugh. “Well, we’ll just have to make it a thing, won’t we?” He laughed so hard he almost bounced you off his chest and onto the blanket. You grinned, making a mental note to enlist Sarah’s help to definitely get him an engagement belt buckle – the cheesiest one you could find, and soon.

…

Later, when Tommy and Sarah got home, they found you dancing in the kitchen to the mix CD Joel and Sarah had made you the Christmas before, laughing and singing along to “Forever and Ever, Amen” as you made dinner. Sarah immediately gasped and zeroed in on the ring on your finger before you could even say anything. She screamed and jumped across the room to hug you both.

“Finally! I thought you were never going to do it.” She pinched her dad in the side and he squirmed away.

“Hey! I told you I was planning on New Year’s, you little meddler.” He was smiling wide as he teased her.

“Is this what you’ve been so excited about?” you wonder aloud.

Sarah nodded at you, bouncing on her toes. “We bought the ring a month ago! Do you like it?”

“I love it, sweetheart, thank you. It’s beautiful.” She beamed at you and hugged you again. You laughed, holding on tight. Tommy came in and squished all four of you together in a hug.

“Welcome to the family, sunshine!” He pulled you away from Joel and started dancing you around the room as Sarah and Joel laughed. “You’re stuck with us now.”

You grinned as he spun you around, catching Joel’s eye. “Stuck, huh? But there’s nowhere else I’d rather be.”

...

Jackson, Early Fall 2024

After that night you and Joel can be found together more often than not.

You don’t move in together, not yet – you want Ellie to be comfortable, and that’s more important than anything else.

But you spend a lot of nights in each other's beds.

At first it surprises you, how quickly the two of you fall together again. But it shouldn’t, really. Just like you told Joel, the core of who you are is still the same, and who you are together was always something special. Something that had burrowed so deep inside of you, had become so much a part of you, that you’d mourned a part of yourself when it was lost. You’d assumed it was gone for good, right up until the moment Joel Miller touched you again.

You have some difficult conversations, difficult in the sense that it’s hard for the both of you to talk about some parts of your past. But just like Before, Joel is there to catch you when you stumble over your words, there to hold you when the memories are too strong. You do the same for him.

And when Tommy and Maria’s baby is born in early summer, you’re there for each other for the hard moments and memories that come along with all of the good ones. (Ellie takes to her baby cousin Isabela and the joy of being the big cousin with wonder and enthusiasm – they’re like two peas in a pod of chaos. You still wish Sarah was there every day, but seeing them together heals you a bit, too.)

Later in the summer, once he can come up for air after the baby is born, Tommy shows the three of you the lake near Jackson. Joel takes the opportunity to teach Ellie to swim, which results in a couple of hilarious afternoons with both Joel and Tommy ending up soaking wet when they don’t mean to be. You laugh at them from the grass nearby (or sometimes from the lake, with Ellie).

In early fall, on what seems like one of the last warm days of the year, the five of you go out to the lake. Maria leaves Isabela with her closest friend, taking advantage of the summer weather while you still have it. (You were surprised Maria wanted to come, since no one wanted to bring the baby outside the walls of Jackson, but she just shrugged and said she was getting stir crazy and wanted to spend the afternoon with family, that it would only be a couple of hours, anyway. Her smile was a little too knowing, a little suspicious. You’d narrowed your eyes, sure something was up, but couldn’t figure out what.) It’s a day off from work and school and Ellie bounces along beside you, excited to be out exploring. She’s adjusting well, but still needs to get away sometimes.

You and Joel are walking slowly around the edge of the lake as Ellie and Tommy invent some sort of splashing game with extremely complex rules (that mostly result in Tommy getting soaked and Ellie grinning like a little demon the whole time). Maria just watches and laughs at their antics from her comfortable spot on a blanket next to the lake. Whatever the game is, they’re clearly having fun, and you leave them to it.

Joel takes your right hand in his left, intertwining your fingers and squeezing, and says, “I still can’t really believe it, that we get to have all of this again.”

“I know what you mean. It’s starting to make the 20 years in between feel like a dream, which seems impossible.” He nods, agreeing. “I don’t think either of us will ever be unaffected,” you share a glance and the knowledge that both of you still have nightmares and rough days, “but it seems too good to be true.”

He pulls your hand up to his lips, kissing the back of it softly. “You know, Ellie pointed something out to me the other day.”

You turn to look at him when he doesn’t say anything more. “Oh?” You elbow him a little to urge him on. He smiles, one corner of his mouth lifting.

“We were talking about Before, and she pointed out that technically, we’ve been engaged for almost 22 years now. You know, we never officially called it off or anything.”

You stumble a little and laugh, wondering where he’s going with this. “I mean, technically, she’s right.”

Joel grins at your reply and pulls you to stop, turning you to face him by grabbing your other hand. “And technically,” he winks, “that’s probably long enough for an engagement. We could probably, well. We could get married, um. If we wanted.” He looks a little shy, somehow, even after everything you’ve been through.

Your breath catches in your throat. And for some reason the question that comes out is, “do people still do that?”

He laughs, crinkling his nose at your question. “Yeah, I asked Tommy. Sounds like at least around here, people still do that.” Of course they do, you realize it as he says it – Tommy and Maria are married, after all.

“I…” you trail off, words leaving you, overcome by a possibility that you hadn't once stopped to consider. He sees how surprised you are and tries to talk you through it.

“You know, there’s not one particular way, sounds like people just do whatever seems right to them, with a few witnesses or sometimes a party at the Bison or something. Something they like.”

Your brain is coming back online and with it the force of your desire to be married to this man. It emerges from somewhere deep within you, pushed down and ignored for so many years because of how much it hurt to think about. You never stopped wanting it, not really, you only stopped being able to have it. It was out of reach for so long that it didn’t occur to you that you could have it now, even with Joel right in front of you, miraculously alive. You start to smile and he straightens up, smiling back and looking relieved.

“It’s just too bad we don’t have any kind of rings, you know?” He continues. You clear your throat, suddenly awkward, and he narrows his eyes at you. He knows you far too well. “What?”

“Well,” you start, “maybe we do have some rings.”

“Rings?” Joel’s eyes go wide as he emphasizes the end of the word, clearly incredulous both at their possible existence and at the idea that there might somehow be more than one ring available to you.

“I might have held something back, from the shoebox.” His mouth drops open and he pulls you closer. “I held onto mine, somehow, never lost it. I didn’t wear it of course, but I kept it close and never had it stolen.” He’s shaking his head in disbelief, looking down at your hands that are still clutched in his own like he might find it there on your finger, somehow unnoticed until now. “And then when I went back to the house, I found them. In your sock drawer.” He squeezes your hands so hard and looks so shocked you worry he might fall over.

“Why didn’t you tell me?” It’s a fair question.

“Well, at first it was like the rest of the shoebox – I was just waiting for a good time to tell you about it, and I did as soon as I could. But the rings…” You sighed. “I was trying not to push, you know? You said slow, and I agreed.”

“But we left slow behind months ago, darlin’.” He tugs you in closer, letting go of your hands to move his around your waist. You slide yours up his chest to his shoulders.

“I know, but well, two reasons. One, it honestly hadn’t seemed possible in so long that I sort of… assumed people didn’t get married anymore. And two, well. It seemed kind of fast, to just bring it up right away. Hey, thanks for the mind-blowing orgasms, did you still want your wedding ring? Then I just made it more difficult by waiting and got all in my head about it.” He laughed and pulled your face into his chest, kissing along your hairline.

“You could’ve said that. The orgasm thing. We have been engaged for 22 years, after all.” You can feel him laughing as he says it and for a second you marvel at the idea that it’s something you can both joke about. “Let me help get you out of your head, baby. We can work it out together.” He pulls back and to your surprise, for the second time in your life, Joel drops to one knee in front of you. His hands go to your hips and yours to his arms. He holds you up as your knees suddenly feel weak.

“I can’t beat that first proposal, I don’t think, especially not with our family right over there. So I’ll just say that I love you, darlin’, and I never stopped. I can’t believe I get another chance at spending the rest of my life with you. I’m not letting it pass me by. We were made for each other, after all.” You smile, and feel tears slip down your cheeks, just like last time. He squeezes your hips. “I know it won’t be easy all the time, but I’d rather handle the hard things together than apart. Even when the hard things come from us.”

His eyes are looking a little teary, too, and he says your name softly. “It turns out we really did take the long way ‘round, but I’d like to go the rest of the way with you by my side, however long it turns out to be. Will you marry me, darlin’?”

You say yes, of course. You say yes, and fall into his arms again, just like last time. Joel draws you into a kiss, both of you on your knees, and then laughs when you slide your hand into his back pocket and squeeze.

“We’re too old for me to take you right here on the ground like last time, baby, and we’ve got an audience anyway.” You look up to see Tommy, Maria and Ellie are all watching you, grinning. When you make eye contact with them they start cheering. It’s ridiculous and it makes you tear up again. Joel leans forward to whisper in your ear as they come running towards you, “I promise, honey, I’ll give it to you so good when we get home that you won’t be able to walk tomorrow.” You shiver.

You rise, just as Ellie arrives and throws herself at you both, getting you all wet with lake water. She smiles at you both and starts to poke at Joel as Tommy walks up behind her.

“Well, what am I supposed to do, sunshine, welcome you to the family a second time? It don’t make any sense.” He grins at you, and pulls you into a hug. Maria is right behind him with another, and you realize that all three of them must have known what Joel was going to ask you today.

Ellie looks up from where she’s teasing Joel mercilessly for being such a romantic. “Hey, why does he call you sunshine, anyway?”

Joel and Tommy start laughing, and you roll your eyes. “Come on, I’ll tell you the story on the way back.”

“Aw come on, it’s not a long story,” Tommy grins as he needles you. He looks at Ellie. “We were at some bar and this guy wouldn’t leave her alone, got so far as putting his hand up her shirt. After she’d already pushed him away a couple times. She was dancing, we were over by the bar.”

Joel chimes in, “She took care of him, though. Didn’t need any help.” He’s grinning.

Tommy nods. “Yeah, it was beautiful. She grabbed him by the shoulders, shouted, ‘watch where you put your hands if you want to keep ‘em, fucker’ and kneed him straight in the di– erm, junk.” Tommy corrects himself, glancing at Joel. Ellie rolls her eyes.

“You can say dick. I’m not a fucking child.” Ellie crosses her arms and frowns at Tommy. Joel sighs, long-suffering, but you know he’s hiding a laugh.

“Anyway,” Tommy shrugs, “the fucker folded in half right there on the dance floor, just fell right over and groaned. Everyone around them turned and laughed at him.” Tommy pretends to wipe a tear away from his eye. “He had to army crawl off the dance floor and creep his way outside. Truly, one of the most beautiful sights I ever saw.”

“Ok that is like, fucking awesome obviously, but it doesn’t explain the nickname.” Ellie raises her eyebrow at Tommy.

Joel and Tommy start snickering again. The absolute dorks.

“Sure, yeah, but you know,” Tommy snorts and says gleefully, “she got him where the sun don’t shine.” He and Joel laugh again, louder this time, leaning into each other. This time you roll your eyes, even as Ellie laughs, too. Tommy’s still just as pleased with himself for coming up with that nickname, more than 20 years later. He’s got the same look on his face as he did outside of the bar, crowing about the way you took the guy down.

You and Ellie and Maria leave them there, leaning against each other and laughing, as you walk arm in arm back to where you left the horses.

...

a/n: that’s it, y’all. Thank you for reading!! Every single one of your comments has meant so much to me. Please let me know what you think of the ending?

I bet I’ll add some drabbles showing some of this stuff that didn’t fit in the story. To answer your probable questions:

Yes, you get married. (Your rings don’t actually fit anymore, but neither of you care. You have them, that’s enough. And later you pass them on to Ellie.)

Yes, you do show Jackson how it’s done, dancing at the bar. You even bring out the mix CD.

I handwaved the cure and resulting issues here but just know that however it went, they took care of it.

You and Joel do talk about Tess and Michelle and everything else that happened. You tell Ellie all about Sarah and the extended family she would have had in Texas. Talking about them hurts but seeing her wonder, hearing about her huge family, helps.

You and Ellie talk about Michelle and she eventually opens up to you about her crush on Cat, bringing the two of you closer together.

Joel still sings to you in the kitchen and dances with you in the backyard.

You’re all happy, in the end. It’s hard, and sometimes it’s so hard you think it might not work out. But it always does, and you’re happy. Together.

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