#Tolkien's linguistics

[kylobith]

The Languages and Linguistics of Middle Earth

Gin suilannon!

In the context of my minor programme in Celtic studies and languages, I am following a course called From Táin to Tolkien and Beyond, and today, we had a guest lecture about the languages of Middle Earth, more particularly Sindarin. Since it might be useful to some of you (out of curiosity or for your fanfictions), I thought I would share my notes and my conversations with the guest lecturer here. This was a very linguistics-driven lecture, so I will try to add explanations where I can and, hopefully, make the information more accessible. If you have any questions, you can react to this post or DM me! And beware, this is a very long post. So, without further ado, here is what I learnt.

✽ Notes on Historical Linguistics, Manuscript Tradition and the Languages of Tolkien's Middle Earth by Dr. Aaron Griffith

✣ Shared histories of languages and manuscripts are often visualised with tree diagrams to see the evolution and how they branch out

✣ Little material was published about Middle-Earth and the Elves during Tolkien's lifetime -> Most of it is part of the Legendarium -> Main periods of writing (here we only mentioned the writing processes or when a project was finished, not when they were published): - The Lost Tales (1916-1926): infancy of the Elvish languages - Sketch of The Silmarillion (1926-1930): revision of The Lost Tales and some changes brought to Elvish - Quenta Noldorinna (1930): further reworking and significant expansion of the sketch - The Hobbit (1933): originally intended as an unrelated story - Quenta Silmarillion (1937): fullest expansion of The Lost Tales and significant refinement of the languages - The Lord of the Rings (1950s): use of the mythology of all the earlier writings as a basis, reworking of the languages and massive changes in their interrelations - The Silmarillion (post-1948): based on Quenta Silmarillion, which was heavily revised after The Lord of the Rings

✣ Tolkien rarely dated his works and compositions, so it is difficult to establish a precise creative process or linear chronology of the changes brought to Middle Earth. However, he did leave us some clues: - Absolute Dating -> occasionally, Tolkien did attach dates to his manuscripts, but it remained a rare occurrence - Relative Chronology -> some compositions are dependent on changes to earlier works, so a logical chronology can be estimated (this can also be made possible by the scrap papers from Tolkien's personal records and drafts) - Handwriting -> can be misleading, but it can be a helpful tool to date pieces of distinctly different chronological layers - Nomenclature -> Tolkien frequently changed character names, so particular names can be matched with letters and extracts in which they appear - Christopher Tolkien -> his manuscript order from the twelve-volume The History of Middle-Earth series

✣ Critical asymmetry -> languages frequently split into dialects and other languages of their own, but when manuscripts are retraced according to their version of the same text (think of Arthurian romances and oral tradition being recorded at different points in time and therefore presenting different themes or characters), narratives (stories) cannot be regrouped as easily -> However, there are 2 relations between stories and languages: 1. How changes can propagate in a language system or narrative tradition 2. The relations of language families in real- (at the time of composition) or book-time (time as it passes in the stories)

✣ In natural language, change moves forward in time. This is a trend which also applies for errors in manuscript copies (irregularities in tropes, character changes, etc.)

✣ In stories, a plot development can be carried forward just like a sound can evolve in a language. However, change can occur backwards, too. For example, if a character's ancestry is modified, this can change the whole manuscript history of the story being written (by this, understand that the story must be readapted to fit the new information to maintain some consistency).

✣ Historical linguistics is concerned with the study of language change and the formation of language families (Romance languages, Germanic languages, Slavic languages, etc.). It does so by examining and comparing systems from different languages to see if they can be retraced to an original, common system (Welsh and Irish stemming from Proto-Celtic, for instance).

✣ Some of Tolkien's languages were intended to be related. The following languages and dialects are related in a clear, 'historical' structure, which mimics the way that languages evolve in our world: - Quenya - Sindarin - Lindarin - Noldorin - Telerin - Doriathrin - Ilkorin

✣ Elvish languages were constantly revised by Tolkien, making it challenging to determine a single 'history' (or creative process) of Elvish tongues. In their case, it is more accurate to speak of a series of histories or continua, which refer to the times at which Tolkien brought significant changes (often 1916, 1937 and post-1948). A tree diagram is thus no longer fitting to visualise them all. The diagrams overlap in a three-dimensional visualisation instead, with each layer representing the changes of each major revision.

✣ Some changes were brought solely for aesthetic purposes. Tolkien found the phonetics of Welsh and Finnish particularly pleasing to the ear and, therefore, based Sindarin and Quenya on their structures. As you probably already know, these are the two most-developed languages in the lore of Middle Earth, but he fleshed out at least four other Elvish languages (Telerin, Ilkorin, Doriathrin and Danian). There were generally more changes in Quenya (abbreviated Q).

✣ What was originally Noldorin (abbreviated N) in the 1916 and 1937 versions is now Sindarin (abbreviated S). After 1948, Noldorin became a dialect of its own, and its place in the language tree shifted. The terms and grammar remained rather consistent from one version to the next. -> example: 1916: N Balrog 'fire demon' (bal- 'anguish' + -róg 'strong') 1937: N Balrog 'fire demon' (bal- 'torment' + rhaug 'demon') 1948: S Balrog 'demon of might' (bal- 'might' + raug 'demon')

✣ Such modifications reflected the major changes brought to the stories (especially to what we now know as The Silmarillion), but they also mirror the natural linguistics evolution of real-life languages. This causes a problem, namely in the emergence of 'linguistic orphans', or words whose etymology was no longer valid because the linguistic or sound laws that birthed them in the first place were removed. -> example: Eärendil (Q 'lover of the sea', ayar- 'sea' + -ndil 'lover') 1916: eären was the genitive form (or possessive form) of eär, so the compound made sense. 1937: eäron replaced eären, but Tolkien remained particularly attached to the previous version because of the Old English éarendel -> this created a disruption in etymology, so he declared that eär/eären meant 'sea'

✣ Major sound changes introduced with The Lord of the Rings

✣ Tolkien introduced lenition in some grammatical cases. In Celtic languages, it is a rather common occurrence. It consists in the softening of a consonant at the start of a word according to certain rules. For example, the sound [p] is softened into a [b]. My knowledge of Irish is non-existent, but it is something which happens in Middle Welsh (c.1100-c.1400) and Modern Welsh. -> example: before 1972, Tolkien suggested that the name Gil-Galad ('star of brilliance', 'brilliant star') was lenited, which means that the second component of the name stems from the word calad (lenition causes the c to soften into a g). -> However, he stated in a letter in 1972 that lenition no longer occurred if 'the second noun functions as an uninflected genitive' (in other words, that the possessive is not marked with an apostrophe, 'of the', or any other marker that applied in Sindarin). This explains the merging of ost 'start' + giliath 'fortress' into Osgiliath 'fortress of the start'. If giliath was lenited, the name would instead be Osiliath or Ostiliath (when lenited, g disappears at the head of the noun). -> There is one noted inconsistency regarding the 'rule' above, and it is the case of Eryn Vorn 'Dark Forest'/'Forest of Darkness'. Eryn is a plural form of oron 'tree' and morn acts as a noun (but it is usually the adjective for 'black, dark' and morne is the noun referring to 'darkness, blackness'). Due to Welsh vowel change rules in certain plural forms, morn becomes myrn, and this very same plural form should accompany eryn (both adjective and noun adopt a plural form). Instead, we find a singular form of morn which is lenited (m becomes v). This is possibly an error accidentally left in by Tolkien.

✣ The nature of Noldorin/Sindarin makes Elvish languages rather realistic in their evolution compared to real-life languages, because irregularities occur. Dr. Griffith argues that languages naturally show irregularity because of gradual changes and borrowed words, but he acknowledges that accidents are sometimes just that. Accidents.

✽ Notes on the lecture by Dr. Aaron Griffith

✣ A general interest in creating new languages emerged in the 19th century. It was believed to be a tool which could help resolve political conflicts by creating a sense of cohesion and avoiding miscommunication. This is evident in the creation of Esperanto.

✣ In most cases of invented languages, the language was invented first, and the world or context they belonged to was formed from there. Tolkien worked exactly the other way around.

✣ Tolkien aimed to create an English myth, because he considered that England lacked its own mythology. King Arthur is generally considered Celtic in essence (possibly Welsh) and therefore could not apply as an English myth. This could explain why he retained the Gregorian calendar throughout The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It served as a familiar bridge between Middle Earth and England/the real world.

✣ In original maps of Beleriand, there used to be land west of Ered Luin (the Blue Mountains northwest of the Shire). This was changed in later maps, which Tolkien designed and drew himself. Often, Arda was depicted as a globe with several continents. Afterwards, Tolkien decided that Arda was, in fact, flat.

✣ Backstory of the Elves (I have no knowledge of The Silmarillion, so if I did not use the right terms or names, please feel free to correct me!): - Elves first came into existence in Cuiviénen and were invited by the Valar to join them in Valinor, meaning that they had to cross the continent and the ocean - Not all Elves made it to Valinor, however. Some decided to separate from the main group and settled in different areas of Middle Earth, like in Greenwood (later known as Mirkwood). This caused the language they spoke to evolve into different dialects and, sometimes, completely separate languages - Elves returned to Middle Earth after the war against Morgoth (S; Q Melkor), aided by Númenorians - The West was physically separated from the rest of Arda by a 'cut' through the ocean. The gods then shaped Arda into a globe, but once past the portal to the Undying Lands, it was flat again.

✣ Most often, Tolkien did not provide translations of the phrases he peppered into his works, mostly because he believed that nobody would be interested in them. Once he received enthusiastic letters from readers, he decided to attach them to later versions. He did regret publishing the appendices of The Lord of the Rings, however, because the changes felt too 'final' and he felt as though he took away his own liberty to make further revisions to the material (once it's published, you cannot go back).

✣ Tolkien created quite a lot of poetry to match the phonological aesthetics of Sindarin and Quenya.

✣ Outside The Lord of the Rings, the longest source we have in Sindarin is The King's Letter, which was originally supposed to be part of the epilogue in The Return of the King but was not in the final version because he wrote it in the 1970s. In this letter written entirely in Sindarin, Aragorn (then King Elessar) invites Sam, Rosie, and their children to visit him and Arwen in Minas Tirith.

✣ Sindarin grammar is tricky to reconstruct because of the lack of sources on the matter and the complicated grammar revisions that Tolkien brought. However, we do know that it is loosely based on Welsh, which he confirmed in 'English and Welsh' in The Monsters and the Critics (published posthumously in 1983). He aimed to recreate the same 'pleasant' sounds that he found in Welsh for Sindarin. If the reader knows how to pronounce the Welsh alphabet, then they can easily pronounce Sindarin.

✣ Secondary sources on Sindarin: - A Gateway to Sindarin by David Salo. Salo worked as a language consultant on the films, but his book has been criticised by Tolkien scholars because it tends to ignore the changes between 1937 and 1948 and it treats Noldorin as a dialect of Sindarin, which is no longer the case from 1948 onwards. - The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-Earth by Ruth S. Noel

✣ Primary sources are very incomplete, but the main ones we can use to observe the language are the following publications: - The Lord of the Rings - The Lost Road and Other Writings - The War of the Jewels - The Peoples of Middle-Earth

✣ As established in the previous section, Sindarin follows some of the grammatical rules present in Welsh and pre-modern Welsh. We encounter mutations, especially lenition (also called 'soft mutation' because of the sounds becoming softer, e.g. p becoming b), and they play a crucial role in the structure of Sindarin. Below is a comparison of soft mutation/lenition in the context of Welsh and then in Sindarin. -> Welsh: dyn 'man' + teg 'attractive' = dyn teg 'attractive man' merch 'girl' + teg 'attractive' = merch deg 'attractive girl' -> soft mutation after a feminine noun, t is softened into a d -> Sindarin: Perhael 'Samwise' (literally 'half-wise') Berhael 'Samwise' -> lenition when used as a direct object in a clause, p softened into a b Carm Dum 'Red Valley' (capital of Angmar) -> uses tum 'valley', but it is lenited when acting as an adjective or an adverb, t softened into a d

✣ Other forms of mutations exist in Sindarin, but this part of the lecture is quite technical and does require a basic knowledge of Welsh or Middle Welsh to be comprehensible. Feel free to message me if you wish to know more about them.

✣ Mutations arose from sound changes that affected phrases (intonational units). In other words, they are groups of words that have a single principal accent (or stress) to fluidify the manner of speech and convey a sense of emphasis. For instance, not every word is stressed separately in the sentence 'I am going to the supermarket'. The stress is applied by the speaker to highlight their meaning. Is 'I' emphasised to insist that it is 'I' who is going to the supermarket? Is 'supermarket' stressed to insist that it is the supermarket that I am going to, and not another location?

✣ Mutations are inherited from Welsh and its earlier forms. The same is true between Pre-Sindarin (or what Tolkien then referred to as Noldorin) and Sindarin. -> Welsh: atar evolved into adar 'bird' (lenition of t into a d) -> Sindarin: atar evolved into adar 'father' (same pattern)

✣ No cases in Sindarin verbs, unlike in Quenya. This means that there is no Nominative, Genitive, Dative or Accusative.

✣ Like in Welsh, again, some plural forms of nouns involve what we call a vowel change. This means that according to a regular pattern, the vowels contained within a noun are not the same between their singular and their plural forms. In Sindarin, the vowel change and suffixes help to mark plurals. As far as I'm aware, the changes are identical in Welsh, so if you wish to use Sindarin in your own work, have a look at the vowel changes rules and you should be able to form your own plurals. Please note that it occurs with both non-final and final syllables. -> examples: - adan 'man' -> edain 'men' - certh 'rune' -> cirth 'runes' - annon 'gate' -> ennyn 'gates' - amon 'hill' -> emyn 'hills' - mellon 'friend' -> mellyn 'friends' - Dúnadan 'Man of the West' -> Dúnedain (u is not affected)

✣ Suffixes are another way to mark plurals. -> examples: - harad 'south' + rim 'multitude' = Haradrim 'Southrons, Men of the South' - hadhod 'dwarf' + rim 'multitude' = Hadhodrim 'Dwarves (as a race)'

✣ Compounds are common as well. -> example: - morne 'darkness, blackness'/morn 'dark, black' + ia 'pit, gulf' = Moria

✽ Questions I asked Dr. Griffith directly and his answers

✣ Q: In your article and in the PowerPoint presentation, you sometimes mark terms with an asterisk first (e.g. *rokko-khēru-rimbe when you discuss the origin of the term 'Rohirrim'). What does this notation refer to? ✣ A: An asterisk before a form means that it is not actually found anywhere, but we assume it must have existed. In this case, *rokko-khēru-rimbe is the form of Rohirrim as it would have been pronounced in Old Sindarin, but we don't actually have the word anywhere in a written text

✣ Q: For Rohirric/Rohanese, we know that the language that Tolkien based it on was Old English and that terms were directly borrowed from it (e.g. grīma 'mask' or þeoden 'lord, prince, king'), or that names and phrases from Beowulf have been peppered in the lore of Rohan (e.g. Éomer is a character mentioned once, and the first line sung by Miranda Otto in the 'Lament for Théodred' is a line from Beowulf as well). Unfortunately, it seems that the sources on the languages are few, but do we know his reasoning or process in tweaking and applying Old English to create Rohirric/Rohanese? Do we know, perhaps, how the grammar differed from Old English? ✣ A: We don't really know anything about the language of the Rohirrim. Tolkien chose Old English as a sort of cipher. What I mean is: the language of Middle Earth is called Westron, and the Rohirrim spoke a very archaic dialect of it. Tolkien represented this by having them use Old English/archaic forms. He talks about this in one of the appendices to The Lord of the Rings, though I don't remember which one.

✣ Q: In your opinion, is it realistic to compose texts in Quenya or Sindarin, considering that we do not really have a cultural context behind them that is fully explicit? By this, I mean that since idioms and certain concepts are intrinsically tied to their cultural context, is it possible to actually use the Elvish languages to compose new texts altogether? ✣ A: It is possible to compose texts in Quenya and Sindarin. People do it. Obviously, some things are simply impossible to know: how would you say 'computer' or 'shopping mall'? And for other things, we cannot really know since only Tolkien really had the 'true understanding' of Elvish languages and cultures necessary for some text production. That said, people do do it. I don't know much about it, though, I'm afraid.

For those who are interested, I have Dr. Griffith's article, the PowerPoint presentation with sources and vocabulary on it, as well as a handout with Noldorin and Old Noldorin. Dr. Griffith also sent me some extra sources, let me know if you want me to send them to you! If you have questions, I can always try to contact Dr. Griffith again, he is the coordinator of my Middle Welsh course, so I'm bound to bump into him again, and he is genuinely excited to discuss all things Tolkien :) @konartiste @from-the-coffee-shop-in-edoras @lucifers-legions @emmanuellececchi @hippodameia

#Tolkien #Elvish #Elvish languages #Sindarin #Quenya #Noldorin #linguistics #Middle Earth #Lord of the Rings #LOTR #Tolkien's linguistics #masterpost #reference #lotr ref

[exercise-of-trust]

turkish spindle gang make some noise (imagine having to wind your singles off your spindle before you can start plying, couldn't be us)

#miriel therinde #tolkien fanart #silmarillion fanart #massive self-report here this is actually how i spin. distaff arm fully over the head and all. #subcreation #aggressive linguistic prescriptivism #(that's the fiber arts tag þerindë or bust motherfuckers)

[scribefindegil]

As much as I adore conlangs, I really like how the Imperial Radch books handle language. The book is entirely in English but you're constantly aware that you're reading a "translation," both of the Radchaai language Breq speaks as default, and also the various other languages she encounters. We don't hear the words but we hear her fretting about terms of address (the beloathed gendering on Nilt) and concepts that do or don't translate (Awn switching out of Radchaai when she needs a language where "citizen," "civilized," and "Radchaai person" aren't all the same word) and noting people's registers and accents. The snatches of lyrics we hear don't scan or rhyme--even, and this is what sells it to me, the real-world songs with English lyrics, which get the same "literal translation" style as everything else--because we aren't hearing the actual words, we're hearing Breq's understanding of what they mean. I think it's a cool way to acknowledge linguistic complexity and some of the difficulties of multilingual/multicultural communication, which of course becomes a larger theme when we get to the plot with the Presgar Translators.

#imperial radch #also a great example of the 'you don't have to be Tolkien' phenomenon #if you want to think about linguistic differences by building all the languages in your setting #and being able to explain what those differences are through actual texts in the language in question #that's AWESOME #but it's not the only way to do it #it's also interesting because of course this style only works in book form #everyone's speaking different languages but in a written account they're all 'translated' for you #but of course if it was a TV series they would all have to be speaking a language the audience understands #(or you *would* have to go wild with conlangs) #and i think that's really cool as well-- #how for a series where song is so central we don't actually hear any of the actual in-universe words or any of the music #it's all been filtered #and again you know this is happening but seeing the examples of how real songs--the shape hymns and 'L'homme Arme'--are presented #makes you a lot more viscerally aware of how limited your perspective is #it's good #ann leckie i love you

[maeofthenoldor]

As Tolkien often observed; “names often generate a story” and always nearly contributed or suggested something of the nature or personality of the character, thing or place that has been named. Yet the most intriguing name he has created in my opinion, is the main protagonist of “The Hobbit” Bilbo Baggins who is the hero of the classic tale, and despite being seen as such, his name holds interesting and contradicting connotations. For Baggins suggests harmless, humble and well- contented characters (though with criminal undertones!) Yet the name Bilbo suggests an individual who is sharp, intelligent and even dangerous….

The family name of Bilbo is  “Baggins” which derives from a double source-the English Somerset surname Bagg, which means “moneybag” or “wealthy.” The term “Baggins" itself means “afternoon tea or snack between meals” and at first is appropriate in describing our well off  hobbit. Initially he is presented as a mildly comic, home-loving, upper middle class “gentle hobbit” who seems harmless and composed enough, if given to some annoyance. He is mostly concerned with his mothers dishes, doilies, domestic comforts and food. However, once recruited by Thorin and his Company, we see the respectable gentle hobbit reveal his true colours- he is an excellent and highly skilled burglar.

Tolkien has maintained that his tales are often inspired by names and words from the real world, and indeed, in the jargon of the nineteenth-and early twentieth century criminal underworld there were a cluster of names around the term “bag” and forms of theft. “To bag” means to capture, to acquire, or to steal. “A baggage man” is an outlaw who carries off the loot and a “bagman” is the man who collects and distributes gold on the behalf of others by dishonest means or purposes.

His surname not only characterises himself, but also plots out the narrative for the story. For in the hobbit we discover Baggins is hired by Dwarves to bag the Arkenstone. He then becomes the baggage man who carries off the loot. When he realises Thorin has fallen under the gold sickness, he becomes the bagman and is dishonest to the newly crowned king, distributing the Arkenstone to Thrandruil and Bard. After the Battle Of The Five Armies he hands out the treasure to those who are rightfully in need of it, and thus ends him being the bagman.

Another aspect of Bilbo Baggins character can be revealed by the analysis of his first name. The word “Bilbo” entered the English language in the late sixteenth century as a name for a short and deadly piercing sword of the kind once made in the Spanish port city of Bilbao where the name derives from. This is an excellent description of Bilbo's elvish sword (often called a letter opener) named “Sting.” Found in the troll hoard, Bilbo's “bilbo” can pierce through any animal hide that would break any other sword. In The Hobbit however, it is the hero's sharp wit rather than his sword that gives Bilbo his sharpness. Bilbo's well-honed wits allow him to survive the journey and to trick monsters, a dragon  and to get himself out of bad situations. 

When we put these two names together as Bilbo Baggins, we fully understand the two aspects of his character, showing someone who is dangerously witty, but ultimately good and humble to a fault. If we want to dig deeper into how these names also affected the events of the Lord Of The Rings, one has to look no further than Frodo Baggins.

 Along with the Baggins family name, further “baggage” is passed on to Bilbo's nephew and heir, Frodo Baggins who in the context of the one ring is a link to another underworld occupation; the bagger or the bag thief. This bagger or bag thief has nothing to do with baggage, but is derived from the French word bauge, meaning “ring.” A bagger then, is a thief who specialises in stealing rings by seizing a victim's hand and stripping off its rings. It had common usage in Britain's criminal underworld between 1890 to 1940. The Baggins name holds the idea and plot for both The Hobbit and Lord Of The Rings. For Bilbo's skill as a burglar, one might say that in the perspective of outsiders, the Baggins baggers of Bag End, Bilbo and Frodo, are naturally born ring thieves.

#tolkien #bilbo baggins #frodo baggins #bilbo #frodo #lotr meta #meta #analysis #linguistics #the hobbit #hobbit #hobbits #i spent way to long researching this #lotr #silm

[cirrdan]

So much linguistic drama in Shibboleth of Fëanor.

That one th/s sound change that Fëanor cared about because the th appeared in his mother's name...I adore this detail, so decided to sketch Fëanáro teaching his children to pronounce correctly xD

#shibboleth of fëanor #tolkien universe #silmarillion #feanor #maedhros #maglor #linguistics #the silmarillion #tolkien stuff #digital art #tolkien fandom #silm memes #silm incorrect quotes #lotr #tolkien #feanorians #the lord of the rings #curufinwë fëanáro

[undercat-overdog]

Ok, I said in this post that I wanted to talk about POV and what different characters would use for their species; I've been thinking about it for a while, because it's important to me to portray Elves as thinking of themselves as the default and I like having them think of mortals as different, as a way of worldbuilding and establishing POV. It's the same basic principle as why I think the War of the Elves and Sauron is a Númenórean name, not an Elvish one.

In brief: man and woman can and should be used to refer to Elves when writing from an elven POV.

I think about markedness a lot when I think about writing generally, and one of the concepts is that there are things that are unmarked, the standard, the default, the normal, the unexceptional. To an elf, the default species is elf, not human or dwarf or ent. I want to write from that POV - to an elf, humans are different, even alien. They're other. Elves are us, humans are them.

I, meanwhile, am writing in English, and man and woman are common words, the most "unmarked" words for the concepts; they're standard (e.g., woman sounds more normal than female human). Something like elf woman or female elf is more marked. Why would an elf use a more marked term to refer to their own race? Using she-elf or whatever for Elves but woman for humans uses more marked words (more uncommon, more specific, etc) for elves than it does for humans - but for elves, it should be the opposite! Elves are unmarked! Elves are default! Humans are different. If an elf is talking about someone, the default assumption would be that the someone is an elf, so if they're not an elf, it would be specified.

So when writing from the POV of an elven character, I would use woman for a female elf and mortal woman for a female human (if necessary to disambiguate). Man, meanwhile, means "Human" when it's capitalized and male when it's not. (Now, if I were writing from a human or dwarven pov, I would use elven woman, if necessary to specify that she's an elf.)

But, you say, what about using Elvish words? Well, first of all, I hate it. We're not writing in Quenya. English is great, and so are the other human languages people use to write fanfic. But that is a subjective matter of taste and you may disagree! Nothing wrong with that, de gustibus, etc.

More objectively, nér and nis are not words specific to Elves; nér means all males, so using it for specifically elf men and not human and dwarven men is incorrect (to quote Elfdict, "Nér can be used regardless of species and so is equally applicable to male Elves, Men, or Dwarves, but is unlikely to be used of male animals, for which the word [ᴹQ.] hanu is more applicable."") (Sindarin is a little more complicated, given the more complex out-of-universe changes, but it too has race-neutral terms for man and woman.)

Lastly, Tolkien himself uses man and woman to refer to non-human species. He calls Galadriel and Finduilas women, and Aredhel is "taller than a woman's wont." Earendil is a man (though he is not a Man) and Curufin is a horseman and there are lots and lots of kinsmen and kinswomen. Hobbits meanwhile, in Appendix F, have "women" and "man-children" (Tolkien is talking about how Hobbits name babies, thus the children part, but I like to think he's getting one more dig in at Pippin).

#meta #linguistics #writing #imo it's breaking pov to use 'man and woman' only for humans when writing from an elven or dwarven pov #the only time Man/Men means human is when it's capitalized #thanks to polu and aipi for examples of tolkien using 'man' and 'woman' to refer to non-humans #also man and women are great! i'm not going to abandon such useful words

[neechees]

Tbf 'mankind' is actually from an older version of English where 'man' just meant "human" (the word for woman was 'wif' & the word for man was 'were' which still survives in 'werewolf', or man-wolf) and 'kind' comes from 'kin' or cynn meaning "family".

The English language is still very man centered bc of the patriarchy but this particular bit predates the gender neutral assigning of men centered terms

#thats also why Tolkien refers to all humans regardless of gender in his works as 'men' #bc he was a linguistics nerd with a hard on for Old English & he knew 'men' just meant 'humans'

[welcomingdisaster]

#shout out to my friends finrod felagund and beren erchamion for helping me with the linguistics #silly shit tag #finrod #beren #tolkien #the silmarillion #silmarillion

[the-elusive-soleil]

Okay, all I wanted to know what which Quenya words originally had þ instead of s, and instead I stumbled on this thing, and now I need to make it other people's problem.

So I knew a large part of why Feanor was so...twitchy about the þ vs. s thing was because of his mom's name, Miriel þerinde. What I did not know was that, while the verb þer- means "to sew", which means that "þerinde" is "seamstress", there was also a verb ser- before the þer- verb changed.

The original ser- means "to rest". So after the pronunciation shift, "Serinde" could mean either "seamstress" or "she who rests".

Considering that Feanor lost his mom because giving birth to him took so much out of her that she essentially had to permanently rest...I can see why this would be such an incredibly sore point with him.

It's not just about "hey, quit mispronouncing my mom's name", it's about "quit calling my mom 'the one who couldn't hack it and had to go away forever' and use the name that describes her as a craftswoman, you complete troglodytes".

#silmarillion #feanor #miriel therinde #quenya #linguistics my beloved #language rant #there really is always another secret with tolkien languages

[helenvader]

I was leafing through an Old Norse dictionary and found this. Hello, Sauron.

#sauron #old norse #tolkien #a linguist is a linguist is a linguist

[eloquentsisyphianturmoil]

freaks me out that people call celeborn teleporno for many reasons

It sounds stupid

there’s linguistic inconsistencies with ‘silver’ as ‘telep’ in quenya and as ‘telpe’ (ex. tyelkormo, tyelperinquar, telperion)

he’s Moriquendi so he has no quenyan name

Did I mention it sounds stupid

#This may be the third imaginary-linguistics related post I’ve made in as many minutes #Sorry; I have no principles #But this stuff interests me and I like using my feeble powers of deductive reasoning to annoy intelligent tumblr users #Intelligent tumblr users? Hm #But anyway #silm #the silm #the silmarillion #Silmarillion #tolkien #jrr tolkien #tolkien lore #lotr #celeborn #teleporno #I can’t believe I just tagged that #The silm fandom #silm fandom

[softlysilverfountainsfall]

Concept: there is a massive linguistic debate among the Noldor on whether to use past tense or present tense when referring to dead elves, since they're dead but are presumably in the Halls and may one day return. (The Vanyar and the Amanyar Teleri (Falmari) don't care but mostly use present tense. All the Moriquendi use past tense.) The Noldor used to use present tense, but then Miriel..well, she's not coming back, is she?

So they start using past tense for Miriel, and then for all the dead. Predictably, Feanor explodes, and the issue becomes very controversial, very political, and another wedge between Feanor and Fingolfin.

(Fast-forward: by lake Mithrim after Maedhros is captured, the sons of Feanor have a few screaming matches whenever one of them slips and refers to Finwe, Feanor, Amrod (if burnt version), or Maedhros in the past tense.)

After the Noldor settle in Beleriand, the ever-loyal sons of Feanor continue to use the present tense, but death and Doom weight heavily on the Noldor, and the addition of the Sindar population (who habitually use past tense) and the transfer to Sindarin as the main language push some Feanorians to use past tense. The linguistic distinction becomes a less explosive issue and less of a way to declare your loyalties.

After the Dagor Bragollach, the scales tilt more in the past tense's favor. After the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, everyone, including the sons of Feanor, use the past tense, and the despair is such that no one notices the change.

#optional: Some Noldorin Feanorians come to see using #the past tense as a rejection of reembodiment and therefore of Valinor #and use the past tense to affirm their Feanorian identity #this post is brought to you by me wondering whether elves use past or present tense for dead elves #and deciding to mine the idea for finwean family drama #the silmarillion #Noldor #house of finwe #Feanor #sons of feanor #fingolfin #legendarium linguistics #quenya #sindarin #softlysilver #tolkien's languages

[erynalasse]

I am quite certain that Fëanor invented the Quenya word heconna (bastard) to describe his half-siblings, and moreover, nobody had even thought about the concept till him.

#my post #tolkien #silmarillion #fëanor #tolkien linguistics

[tower-of-hana]

Ôh gôd Î lôvê Tôlkîên âccênts sô fûckîng mûch

#linguistics #linguistic #languages #shitpost #lingblr #linguist shitpost #conlang #conlanging #constructed language #conlangs #Tolkien #lotr

[ceruleanwhore]

My latest issue with Tolkien lore is that the dwarves/dwarrows all having Old Norse names but then having Khazad as their language, which is based in Hebrew, makes no sense. I feel like if he just tweaked some of the Numenor stuff, he could've had Khazad be the language there or something or he could've had it as one of the southern languages, idk, but it shouldn't be the language of a bunch of Old Norse dwarves.

#tolkien #old norse #linguistics

[buck1eys]

LOTR PEOPLE just thinking about a Possession AU where Éowyn and Faramir are PhD students at different universities researching this early medieval Old English text called Þāra Hringa Hlāford and they develop an academic rivalry about whether a certain two figures in the narrative were getting it on or not. This debate is much encouraged by a certain reincarnated Prof. G. L. Findel who knows an enemies to lovers moment when he sees one and gets them together for some field study

#lord of the rings #faramir x eowyn #eowyn #faramir #glorfindel #the silmarillion #tagging this as #gimleaf #gigolas #because that is my in manuscript debatable ship of choice #but whatever floats your boat until i break my leg and am forced to spend summer inside writing 200k of this #but genuinely think about it #Tolkien could even be a referenced character who produced a fairly conservative modern translation 50 years ago #eowyn is one of those medievalist sandboxers who loves a queer feminist reading of any and everything #faramir is a linguistics transplant with more traditional approaches to scholarship lets say #but he's never met anyone with such an intuitive grasp of old english even if her latin is non existant #glorfindel KNOWS they were banging but he can't say shit