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undercat-overdog · 12 days
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I don't know what I'm doing anymore lol. Getting back into paleo stuff. Tiktaalik feelings. I plan on making this into a small edition of 2 color screen prints on paper, so follow along to get notified for that! Photoshop // ~ 8 hours
Instagram // X // Bluesky
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undercat-overdog · 15 days
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@gwaedhannen with an excellent point: yes, Sauron didn't know it was Finrod!
One other tangentially related thing is that Beren was the bigger prize than Felagund, and someone Sauron had more of a personal interest in:
At length Morgoth set a price upon [Beren's] head no less than the price upon the head of Fingon, High King of the Noldor; but the Orcs fled rather at the rumour of his approach than sought him out. Therefore an army was sent against him under the command of Sauron; and Sauron brought werewolves
I dislike the "Finrod lost to Sauron because of his hypocrisy and complicity in the Kinslaying" interpretations for many many reasons. I find it personally dissatisfying; I don't think it's the correct reading of the text itself; I think it's plain weird to make it all about how Finrod might have, hypothetically, gotten on a swanship. Like, that's not what the story is about! The Tale of Beren and Luthien isn't about Finrod - he's a prominent character but definitely a supporting one - and it isn't about the Noldor. It's not even about the central conflict of the Quenta proper. Making it all about the Noldor's "sin" - the incorrect framing imo; it's Doom not sin - decenters Morgoth the actual baddie and centers the Noldor even more than the text does.
The story is the Leithian, release from bondage, and that's what the rap battle is about. Finrod sings of the prison opening, the chain that snaps, and Sauron counters with captives sad in Angband. Even the kinslaying itself isn't what Sauron begins with, rather the death of the Trees: then the gloom gathered, darkness growing... it's death and darkness and blood even in Elvenesse: we can reach there, evil is there, there's no place in the world that's not marred by Morgoth and Morgoth's Ring. Finrod, whose argument is the beauty of the world, can't counteract it: beautiful things are broken. Arda is marred. And he's set in chains. (And then chains are broken by the power of friendship - another Leithian theme.)
Anyways, making an important and thematic part of Beren and Luthien's story into comeuppance for the Noldorin equivalent of committing adultery in your heart baffles me a bit.
Down with Noldor-centric readings.
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undercat-overdog · 15 days
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I dislike the "Finrod lost to Sauron because of his hypocrisy and complicity in the Kinslaying" interpretations for many many reasons. I find it personally dissatisfying; I don't think it's the correct reading of the text itself; I think it's plain weird to make it all about how Finrod might have, hypothetically, gotten on a swanship. Like, that's not what the story is about! The Tale of Beren and Luthien isn't about Finrod - he's a prominent character but definitely a supporting one - and it isn't about the Noldor. It's not even about the central conflict of the Quenta proper. Making it all about the Noldor's "sin" - the incorrect framing imo; it's Doom not sin - decenters Morgoth the actual baddie and centers the Noldor even more than the text does.
The story is the Leithian, release from bondage, and that's what the rap battle is about. Finrod sings of the prison opening, the chain that snaps, and Sauron counters with captives sad in Angband. Even the kinslaying itself isn't what Sauron begins with, rather the death of the Trees: then the gloom gathered, darkness growing... it's death and darkness and blood even in Elvenesse: we can reach there, evil is there, there's no place in the world that's not marred by Morgoth and Morgoth's Ring. Finrod, whose argument is the beauty of the world, can't counteract it: beautiful things are broken. Arda is marred. And he's set in chains. (And then chains are broken by the power of friendship - another Leithian theme.)
Anyways, making an important and thematic part of Beren and Luthien's story into comeuppance for the Noldorin equivalent of committing adultery in your heart baffles me a bit.
Down with Noldor-centric readings.
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undercat-overdog · 15 days
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Tagged by @meadowlarkx to post the last line that I wrote (ty <3)
He opened his mouth and began to eat.
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undercat-overdog · 17 days
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Everyone says that the eagles should have just carried the ring to Mordor but people who really know their lore know that they were actually stuck in some sort of hotel
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undercat-overdog · 23 days
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I'm always a little confused when people draw the stars of Gondor/Elendil with eight points, because:
A) We have Tolkien's own art showing the symbols of the King with five-pointed stars:
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B) We have a pretty obvious inspiration for the shape of said five-pointed stars:
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undercat-overdog · 24 days
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I'd forgotten to add that Sauron wasn't just the evil royal advisor on Numenor but the tempter offering forbidden knowledge too, the snake in the garden.
And Sauron came. Even from his mighty tower of Barad-dûr he came, and made no offer of battle. For he perceived that the power and majesty of the Kings of the Sea surpassed all rumour of them, so that he could not trust even the greatest of his servants to withstand them; and he saw not his time yet to work his will with the Dúnedain. And he was crafty, well skilled to gain what he would by subtlety when force might not avail. Therefore he humbled himself before Ar-Pharazôn and smoothed his tongue; and men wondered, for all that he said seemed fair and wise. [...] Yet such was the cunning of his mind and mouth, and the strength of his hidden will, that ere three years had passed he had become closest to the secret counsels of the King; for flattery sweet as honey was ever on his tongue, and knowledge he had of many things yet unrevealed to Men
(As discussed further in 'On Motives,' Sauron explicitly chooses to surrender and be taken captive because he knows his armies can't win against Numenor; it wouldn't have been his first choice otherwise.)
And what he's offering them is nothing less than eternal life and rulership of the land of the gods...
Seducer is a very broad category. The femme fatale is a type of seducer but a sub-category only. Other sub-categories include "evil vizier/priest" and "devil who tempts with forbidden but desired knowledge," a la Mephistopheles in Faust (sorry, gotta be a shorter way to describe that). Sauron fits in the latter two, not the former. He was the evil vizier and priest in Numenor and Mephistopheles in Eregion and to Saruman.
What Sauron does with Denethor is less seduction and more disinformation, biased news, twitter algorithms: doomscrolling.
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undercat-overdog · 30 days
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somewhat related to the inherent peredhel queerness post, I’m thinking out loud as i type so it’s possible that i’m about to reinvent the wheel but basically. Eärendil as the peredhel character who threatens the established categories of first age story genres also? or like. whose existence very emphatically brings nuance to the polarised nature of first age narratives. kills dragon, doesn’t die. intercedes with the valar, gets bound by elvish fate within the circles of the world. not a dyscatastrophic character and also not an eucatastophic character (in the sense that he doesn’t exactly benefit from “winning”) but clearly a third type of thing and it fascinates me. and he is the main character of gondolin’s little universe so like. dyscatastophe CoH, eucatastrophe Lay of Leithian, secret third thing FoG+ nonexistent Lay of Eärendil…
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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Have come around to the idea that "Tar-Mairon," in the Quenya, was not actually what the man himself was called on Numenor but what the surviving Faithful called him while writing in Quenya, a transliteration of what he became to be called in Numenor once he had reached full power and influence. Similarly, perhaps it's the reason we have Tar-Calion as a name and not just Ar-Pharazon. There's a bitter pleasure in referring to an enemy by their name in a language they banned
(Ok the real reason that Tar-Mairon the name is Quenya is because it comes from a word list where Jirt was discussing the Quenya reflexes of a Primitive Quendian root, not Adunaic. But in-universe!)
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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Most characters in the Silmarillion aren't bad people and neither is everyone morally grey. It's not the war crimes fandom. It's pretty black and white, actually!
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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Lovers Sempiternal (2022) oil on wood panel Shop: suhaylah.bigcartel.com Patreon: patreon.com/suhaylah_h IG: @suhaylah.h  
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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Height:
Thingol in the Silmarillion: "for fair and noble as he had been, now he appeared as it were a lord of the Maiar, his hair as grey silver, tallest of all the Children of Ilúvatar."
Turgon in Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin: "Now Turgon himself would appear, 'tallest of all the Children of the World, save Thingol.'"
Argon in the Shibboleth of Feanor: "Arakáno was the tallest of the brothers and the most impetuous."
Maedhros. Just given the epithet 'The Tall' like many other characters. Not 'The Tallest'. and yet I see people constantly making him taller than Turgon; even if he's not a listed character in a fic, I must endure mentions about how he's taller than everyone else. Truly, a burden for me personally.
Beauty:
Lúthien in the Silmarillion: "And of the love of Thingol and Melian there came into the world the fairest of all the Children of Ilúvatar that was or shall ever be."
Feanor in the Silmarillion: "Feanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty..."
Finarfin in the Silmarillion: "Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart."
Finrod in the Silmarillion: "Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves.
Galadriel in the Silmarillion: "Galadriel, most beautiful of all the house of Finwe."
Finwe in Morgoth's Ring: "fairest and noblest of the Eldar"
Maedhros. His mom thought he was pretty. HIS MOM. Yet whomst do I see (again, in places where he's really not relevant) being referenced all over the place as the most beautiful elf who ever elfed in all of history? Maedhros.
😑😑😑
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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In "Heard the Mission Bell," Celebrimbor seems to have had sex with a lot of people before he died but isn't familiar with what Turyéron is doing to him. What's Tyelpe's sexual history in that story?
Thank you for the question, anon, and thank you for the other ask: you are so sweet 🥹
Celebrimbor was always a slut in the Mission Bell/fuck monastery universe, but he was a fairly vanilla slut. Orgies, absolutely, some pink fur handcuffs maybe, but nothing like what he's currently experiencing. He has slept with many people in his past life in Middle-earth: Celeborn has been mentioned, but also Galadriel, Finduilas and Gwindor (youthful experimentation), Pengolodh (alas I had to cut a reference to Penny's slender dexterous scribe hands), and many many OCs. And Annatar too, though he will never be mentioned by name (C and Sauron had quite vanilla sex, very lovey dovey hallmark movie. Turyeron is far meaner than Sauron, at least in bed).
So the fuck monastery and Turyeron are new to Tyelpe - he'd never thought about such even existing - and much to his chagrin he's into it. Next time he has a moment to reflect in quiet he's going to come to some uncomfortable revelations. He'll always be a brat though.
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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I do love Celebrimbor takes where post-death/rebirth he actually has very little to say to his family until they show some signs of remorse or personal growth from the atrocities they committed in Middle-earth.
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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In “Dwell in Death’s Shadow” you have a Maedhros who is of the opinion that elves shouldn’t bring children into the world when they may experience extreme hardship. In canon, Aegnor was of the same opinion because of the war and so refused to marry Andreth, despite the fact that he loved her. Do you think that this type of opinion was more popular amongst the Noldor vs the Sindar and other non-Noldor elves? What is your opinion of Aegnor and Andreth? I always thought that it was sorta unfair that the one canon male-elf and female-human pairing in canon didn’t get their (sorta) happy ending of being together. Even though Aegnor was always likely to die in the first age anyways. I wonder if Aegnor was motivated by the fear of having mortal children in a land with an undefeated Morgoth.
Thanks for the ask, anon! Always love asks, and love procrastinating. Fair warning, I didn't actually reread the Athrabeth before answering; it's been a few months since I read it.
Link to the fic for the curious: it involves bb Celebrimbor eavesdropping on Maedhros, Curufin, and Mrs Curufin talking about his existence.
Do you think that this type of opinion was more popular amongst the Noldor vs the Sindar and other non-Noldor elves?
I think it was more common among the Exilic Noldor who had come from Aman, but both Aegnor and the Maedhros in the fic have an opinion about it that is unusual even in that group. We know there were lots of elves born in First Age Beleriand, many from Noldo/Sinda unions, and there wasn't an active war at the time either.
The time between the Aglareb and the Bragollach was mostly peaceful. It was a watchful peace, a frozen conflict, with the occasional skirmish, but a peace nonetheless. It's not 400 years of constant battles, and when Fingolfin proposes restarting active conflict and attacking Angband, and only Aegnor and Angrod are in favor; the sons of Feanor are the loudest in opposition. And: Thus the designs of Fingolfin came to naught, and the land had peace yet for a while.
Finrod in the Athrabeth does saythat "This is time of war, Andreth, and in such days the Elves do not wed or bear child", but his statement contradicts what we see in canon: there are weddings and children born during the Watchful Peace, the time that the Athrabeth takes place. But Finrod is explaining Aegnor's reasoning to Andreth and trying to bring her closure.
I think if I were writing the story now... I don't know how I would? In that I think my conception of Maedhros has changed and I'm not sure if he'd feel as strongly about not having children in Beleriand as he does there. (The Noldor did not yet comprehend the fullness of the power of Morgoth, nor understand that their unaided war upon him was without final hope, whether they hasted or delayed. But because the land was fair and their kingdoms wide, most of the Noldor were content with things as they were, trusting them to last)
I wonder if Aegnor was motivated by the fear of having mortal children in a land with an undefeated Morgoth.
Oh hmm, fear of mortal children in particular? I'm not sure, anon; interesting question! I do think that mortality is the default of half-elves (it's specifically Earendil, Elwing and their line that has the choice, and if Aegnor and Andreth had had children, they would have been mortal - certainly it was before the Valar considered the question).
I do think kids would have been a fear of Aegnor's. Or at least it would be reasonable to think it was a fear of his: we know "[Angrod and Aegnor] dwelt in regions whence Thangorodrim could be descried, and the threat of Morgoth was present to their thought."
I always thought that it was sorta unfair that the one canon male-elf and female-human pairing in canon didn’t get their (sorta) happy ending of being together.
It is unfair! Someone smarter than me - I don't remember where I saw it so unfortunately can't credit - pointed out how Aegnor and Andreth are both very entwined in their own culture and people, unlike the Big Three elf/human romances, where the human half of the pairing is separated from humanity (Aragorn the least so, but he was raised in an elven settlement). Whereas Andreth is not that, holding not just a culturally important role but being a keeper of her people's knowledge and history (she shows up a couple other places in the Legendarium disconnected from Aegnor, including as the author of a prophecy). Aegnor likewise does not detach himself from his people.
I wonder about Andreth's death. She would have been in her 90s at the Bragollach, so if she were still alive, she would have almost certainly died in it.
One interesting thing: iirc we don't actually know what Finrod advocated for with Aegnor. When he talks to Andreth about Aegnor's motivations, he's talking for his brother, not for what he felt himself. I'd be curious to see something that posited that Finrod thought Aegnor should pursue a relationship.
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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The great unified Celebrimbor parentage theory
So in my last HoME post, I discovered a way to get all of Tolkien’s Celebrimbor parentages to hold at once. I’m not sure I’ll be able to get a fic out of this - I have ideas, but nothing tying them together unless you count a potentially terrible theme of “in which all Celebrimbor’s family abandon him in one way or another” - but I thought I’d poke at this to see how it falls out. A lot of this is not at all well thought-out and up to change!
Keep reading
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undercat-overdog · 1 month
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Star-kissed
My @myslashyvalentine gift for @undercat-overdog! I had so much fun writing this; Telpe/Telpe 4evah.
Pairing: Celebrimbor/Celeborn
Rating: Explicit
Select Tags: Canon-Typical Violence, light gore, Sex Pollen, Minor Celeborn/Galadriel (Tolkien), First Time, Pillow Talk
Summary: Celeborn encounters the sole survivor of a party of travelers from Gondolin while patrolling near Nan Dungortheb. The more he learns about him, the stranger he seems. And then there's the matter of the poison…
Read on AO3!
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