#yes i want him to have had an actual personal growth arc instead of a dumbass reboot and scott fucking lobdell for 10 years

[cleromancy]

the post thats like "as a bette enjoyer i understand jason likers just making stuff up but dont you want something good dont you want something that delivers" is so goofy like. yeah i fucking do and i want jason to deliver it

#i say this as a cry for blood lover helena b enthusiast btw and i have a lot of selina on my to read list #but like youre not really doing a Gotcha by telling me jason has been mishandled and his comics are bad lol. #like i know. i was there. #yes i want him to have had an actual personal growth arc instead of a dumbass reboot and scott fucking lobdell for 10 years #and all name dropping cry for blood does in jasony contexts is make *me* cry blood bc rucka didnt write the non existent jason growth arc #dc #anyway guess who has two thumbs and just bought the utrh deluxe edition bc jason todd only has one good book #but good god is that book ever fucking good. #SPEAKING of cry for blood i did find the 1st and 6th issues the other week wheeeeeee but also. Also. kind of want to buy the trade lmao #like the thing about me is. the ideal way to experience a comic to me is sitting on the floor surrounded by a pile of floppies #and i also. dont usually like to buy trades if i know im going out of my way to collect the floppies #but considering i already fjcking owned utrh and lost days and bought the stupid hardcover rerelease anyway who cares life is short god is+ #dead hell is empty and all the comics are here #What if i just do it lmao #(to be clear i mean if i spotted it in the wild i would be unable to stop myself but that is. a bit unlikely)

[nobodyfamousposts]

Do you really think all of ML's problems would be fixed if Adrien never existed?

Good heavens, no.

Adrien isn't the problem. He's just a symptom of a much larger issue. That issue being laziness and poor writing that comes in the form of "tell, don't show", plot threads that go nowhere, and lack of character development or plot progression that leads to a setup of "Status Quo Is God". Removing Adrien wouldn't fix all of that. Heck, it wouldn't fix any of that.

I can't fault the writers for replacing Felix with Adrien. Even if I and others could write out a plot with Felix, that's not to say everyone could or that the writers could. It could very well be that Felix as he was in the PV simply didn't work for the setup they had in mind.

...the issue here is that the setup they had in mind seems to require stagnancy. Where Hawk Moth attacks without winning and the heroes fight off the akumas without really trying to track him as the source and the two leads chase each other around in circles without anyone making any headway in either of these battles. Marinette wants to date Adrien. Chat wants to date Ladybug. It's why all her plans to ask him out fail while his attempts to express his feelings aren't taken seriously. And there is no forward movement, whether in their arc or in the fight against Hawk Moth. There wasn't even build or lead up to the two falling in love. They just started out episode one with crushes on each other and remained having crushes on each other until arguably season 5.

But no good story is stagnant. In this setup, characters need to do things and there needs to be a feeling of forward momentum.

Break it down this way: What is Adrien's problem? What is his goal? What is the obstacle to his goal?

Yes, we could say Adrien's dad being a supervillain and a neglectful jerk is Adrien's main problem, but it's not the problem Adrien is actually focused on in the show. Instead, if we could say Adrien has a problem, it would be that he wants to date Ladybug. And his goal is to date Ladybug. And the source of the problem and obstacle to his goal is...Ladybug.

So his problem, his goal, and the obstacle are all the same thing. This ultimately seems to make his problems Ladybug’s fault then because the problem would be solved if she gives in to his wants rather than by any real effort on his part.

Adrien as he is in the show doesn't do anything. And he doesn't need to do anything because he is at his base a character that things are done for. He doesn't have a goal or direction or drive. He just comes out to deal with akumas as needed, flirt with Ladybug when he can, and then be sad because his life is so hard when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't see him doing anything else. We don't see him making friends. We don't see him engaging in school. We don't even really see how he interacts with the classmates he only recently met. Things happen around him, but he is not a driving force in anything in the show.

But Felix in the PV is a very driving character. He had a problem: he's cursed. What does he need to break the curse? A kiss from Ladybug. What are the obstacles to his goal: Ladybug refusing to kiss him and Hawk Moth trying to kill her. How does he get that kiss? By flirting with her and trying to earn her affections while protecting her and making sure she doesn't DIE against an akuma before he gets that special curse-breaking kiss.

It's the start of Felix's journey. His goal and the various obstacles to that goal that make his story interesting and his growth possible. As such, I see him as a character who would progress in his attempts to obtain his goal as well as one who would progress the storyline...which is also accurate of 3D Felix since that's kind of what he's done more in his relatively few appearances than the series has in 5 seasons.

Adrien didn't have to have Felix's personality. He didn't have to have the same goals or level of drive. But he could still have had things where he grows and helps to push the plot forward.

Adrien...

...just started school. He has no friends, knows no one, and is trying to learn the ins and outs of public education. How is he doing in the different setting with teachers instead of tutors? How is he trying to get along with his classmates? Does he experience bullying? Does anyone NOT like him? What is he going through as a new student who had been homeschooled all his life?

...is friends with Chloe. What's it like learning his "only friend" is a bully? How do people respond to this? Does anyone (besides Marinette) fear him or avoid him because if he's friends with Chloe, he must be just like her?

...is a superhero. He could have been spending time learning the history of the ring and trying to develop his powers. Trying to get stronger? Trying to get to know Plagg? What is he experiencing as a highly known model who is also a superhero and having to juggle those dual identities?

...has a dead mom who died of a "mysterious illness". Given that this loss supposedly occurred about a year prior, he could still be mourning her. Maybe trying to learn what happened to her.

...has a neglectful father. How is he trying to interact with his dad? How does he feel about his dad not being around? What is he doing to try to resolve this?

...has a supervillain father. Like, I cannot stress this enough! His dad is a SUPERVILLAIN! His dad is THE SUPERVILLAIN THEY ARE FIGHTING! People were predicting him finding out and joining Gabriel to try and revive his mom! People were living for the eventual heartbreak of when Adrien finds out the truth! Entire AUs, fan arts, and fanfics were born of this very idea! Going into the drama and struggle Adrien would be experiencing being caught between the "right thing" and the girl he loves and his duty vs his father and his mother and his family. HOW CAN THEY JUST IGNORE THIS?!

But we don't get any of that. Instead, we get Adrien...

...just acclimated with no issues in school and automatically friends with everyone. Good for him, I guess. Wish it was that easy for the rest of us.

...doing little besides occasional comments to Chloe as she is completely horrible for five seasons including Chloe stealing from classmates, getting the entire school punished for something she did, stealing a Miraculous, trying to crash a train, and betraying the city to Hawk Moth. But it takes him learning about something she did to Marinette a year ago for him to finally decide enough is enough and drop her as a friend.

...only goes out to deal with akumas as they come but does nothing to try and figure out his powers and history, get stronger, or try to track Hawk Moth.

...just moves on from dead mom. No relevance here aside from wanting to see a movie she was in or making a passing comment about how she got sick. No attempt to find out what happened to her. No questioning what she may have wanted for him.

...is just sad about his neglectful father neglecting him but seems to get over it rather quickly.

...never learns his father is a supervillain. Okay, I take it back. He learns twice and those timelines are erased with no real repercussions other than trauma for Marinette, so it really doesn't feel like they count. The pieces are all there, though! He knows his dad has the grimoire but never questions him about it! Never asks his dad what the deal was with Tibet! No question about how mom died or what is going on with Nathalie or what he's doing with a hidden mechanism in mom's portrait.

Adrien has potential. He has plot threads and aspects that could be used and goals he could have. But the writing does nothing with him, so while he has a number of things he COULD do to move forward and progress as a character or for the plot, nothing comes of it.

And that all boils down to a problem with the writing.

Adrien was chosen over Felix as an "easier" option to keep the story at a standstill so they could drag it out for as long as needed. That doesn't mean it should have been. There were so many paths that could have been taken, but Adrien was given the personality of a wet noodle, so he acts on none of them because that was what the writers wanted out of his character.

#ml salt #adrien salt #ml writers salt #ml spoilers #ml analysis

[mermaidlighthouse]

Why I think Izzy’s death was actually necessary despite me being sad about losing my favorite* character…

So I am once again looking to reframe a moment/scene involving Izzy around Ed because as much as Izzy was his own character (with a wonderful redemption arc) his function in the narrative imo is as an extension of the Blackbeard persona and therefore Ed and his perception of himself

Ok so this is gonna be long but I think it’s necessary to frame this properly

Izzy and Ed’s relationship is one of misery loving company and instead of finding ways to legitimately pull each other up and heal from whatever brought you to that place it turns to one of toxicity where you either repress the trauma (Ed never telling anyone that he killed his father, that he feels like a monster) or express it in ways that only perpetuate the misery. At this point that constant cycle of misery is so familiar it can be difficult for the participants to recognize what they’re doing to themselves and each other and it’s difficult to not fall back into those patterns.

So while Izzy is making strides and having his arc, instead of saying to Ed maybe don’t go looking for darkness when you’re standing in the light, don’t look for trouble or problems that don’t exist just because that’s what you’ve come to expect he says maybe you’re just a mopey twat and there isn’t a fuckin storm, when Ed does apologize for his leg Izzy’s only response is fuck off.

They can’t communicate with each other effectively and it’s already caused issues. When Izzy tells Ed to listen to the feeling of throwing away the trappings of Blackbeard, Ed does but he has also been told by Izzy that Ed isn’t good enough so why would Stede want him now that he’s not gonna be Blackbeard. I think Izzy meant well and had the right sentiment but the fact is that the damage of what they do to each other has already been done. Izzy doesn’t just represent the devil on Ed’s shoulder, he’s the voice in his head telling him he’s worthless without Blackbeard.

So could the narrative have just said Izzy went off on his own or went with the crew in the end? imho no they couldn’t because in order to have a healthy relationship with Stede, and just to be a generally well adjusted person Ed needs to love himself and the constant knowledge that his self loathing can just pop up out of nowhere (something explicitly shown as an Izzy staple) won’t allow him that freedom. (I recognize this isn’t how self development/self esteem works irl but this is a dark comedy rom com just let some things be hand wavy.)

Sometimes the best way to help each other grow and be whole is to recognize that you need to let the other person go. That’s true for BOTH of them.

Izzy dying was the only way they could finally communicate honestly without the jibes and the looming Blackbeard of it all they could just talk to each other as family as people who love each other (this is not my ship and I have a serious issue with the lack of nuanced takes on love in this fandom but that’s a separate issue).

To give Izzy some grace here I would like to point out that his story can also be seen as one that tells the audience that toxic people in your life or people you have complicated relationships with are allowed to grow on their own and make positive changes for themselves BUT that does not mean you have to accept them back in your life, you are not required to give them space after they’ve wronged you. You can celebrate their growth but you don’t owe them anything. Ed can recognize that Izzy has changed but he was never going to fully excise Izzy from his life he’s too familiar and too much a darkness to hide in and it would have created more toxic situations. So yes Izzy had to die.

*I always mean favorite side character because my favorite character is EdStede/StedeEd. If you don’t love them, together and separately then you don’t love the show because this is their story

#yes I still cry whenever I watch this scene #I’m also masochistic enough that I added Du Gamla to my playlist #and I cry about that too #this may end up just being for me but I needed to get it out of my head #izzy hands #the new unicorn #edward teach #ed teach #blackbeard #stede bonnet #the gentleman pirate #blackbonnet #gentlebeard #ed x stede #our flag means death #ofmd season 2 #ofmd s2 #ofmd

[misrepresentedmorallygrey]

PROPAGANDA

Rose Quartz Propaganda

"We saw her character arc in reverse!! We first saw all the good she did and then learned of her terrible actions in the past. If her story was told the other way around, it would have been a great redemption arc. Yes, she did some terrible things, but she had no choice. She did everything she could to stop the colonization of earth peacefully buy nothing worked. Blue and yellow diamond just didn't listen to her and when they did, THEY were the ones who made the zoo and shit. Rose wanted to free them but couldn't get to them after the war! And with the corruption, there's no way she could have known that'd happen. There's so many things she wanted to do but just couldn't. And with spinel, yes it was shitty to leave her alone for so long, but again, between running her court, running the rebellion, dealing with earth, she likely wasn't a very high priority and like with the zoo, there was no way to get to her after the war since the galaxy warp was destroyed. And don't forget, she was practically a child around this time. You're saying you didn't do any stupid, selfish, or harmful things as a kid? She learned from her experiences and grew, we just saw that growth in reverse, leaving us as viewers with a poor perception of her."

"Rose Quartz is Steven Universe’s dead mom. Initially, she’s set up as sort of an ethereal perfect figure who everyone misses and compares him to. Later we get to see more of her backstory and discover that she’s actually like, a person, with flaws, who has done some bad things, but she did those bad things largely in the course of trying to escape an abusive home life and save the people and planet that she fell in love with. It’s very clear that despite her flaws she was trying to do the right thing and that she deeply cared about others. Unfortunately, a woman who was not a Perfect Martyr was way too much for the Steven Universe fandom to handle. She pretty much set off the wave of SU crit blogs because these people were furious either that she had taken violent measures to solve her problems, that she hadn’t taken violent enough measures to solve her problems, or both somehow. Lots of “Why didn’t she just murder her abusive parental figures?” Lots of “She was evil for having a baby even though she knew she’d die in childbirth!” Lots of “She should’ve been able to protect everyone from a magic nuclear weapon with the power of love somehow.” Lots of “She shouldn’t have rebelled (even though not rebelling would’ve meant the destruction of Earth) because her abusers retaliated and that’s her fault.” LOTS of people drawing her as stick thin even though she was fat in the show. People treated her like she was on the same level or even worse than her abusive parental figures who were also the main villains of the show. It was unbearable to witness."

Katara Propaganda

"She's smart. She's powerful. She an eco-terrorist. She's got the ability to grow as a person. She's a victim of misogynistic fans who codify her as an annoying bitch (sadly not affectionate) cause she's the "mom character." And that's all she will ever be is "The mom character." She bested Azula and could blood bend your ass but won't cause she's chosen not to be a monster! But she's the annoying mom instead."

"if i have to hear ONE MORE *touches necklace* joke i’m gonna mcfreaking lose it"

"despite being one of the most well-written feminist characters of children’s TV, the fandom decides to define her based on her very realistic 14-year-old girl flaws. Ignoring her complex independent arcs and motivations, people love justifying their hatred towards her based on her one line directed at Sokka that he didn’t love his mother as much as she did. Which, if we’re being nitpicky, isn’t so harsh given that it was Katara who shouldered most of the burden of her death, as well as Sokka’s admittance that he doesn’t even remember his mother. Not to mention that ALL the characters make selfish mistakes given the fact that they’re all aged 12-15??? (Aang hiding Katara and Sokka’s father’s letter, anyone???) She really is an elegant breakthrough of the typical female character molds of “girl who is badass” and “girl with a crush on the mc who sits on the sidelines” and it’s so frustrating to see her get the most hate out of the Gaang"

Mabel Pines Propaganda

"[insert "i am 12 years old" comic]"

"You probably already know about this but back when the series was airing people were really pissed at Mabel because she was supposedly selfish. Yeah ok guys asking for a fucking megaphone to help a merman find his family was TOTALLY unreasonable. Dipper giving up one (1) "date" with a girl way older than him to save Mabel's pet was SO not worth it. (This is sarcasm btw. Side note a lot of these have to do with Dipper's crush on Wendy which is a whole other discussion.) And then there's the big one. Mabel causing Weirdmageddon. What people fail to realize with this is that 1) she was extremely stressed when she handed Bill the rift 2) she was tricked by Bill, a being that is A MASTER AT TRICKING PEOPLE, into thinking that she was being handed a magic solution to what felt like the end of the world to her, and 3) she was TWELVE. Not to pull out the "she is literally neurodivergent and a minor" card but do you really expect a 12 year old who's just been told that she's gonna have to face a big and difficult transition WITHOUT her brother who's been there for her all her life to make a rational decision? Y'all seriously fell for Bill's empty words in Sock Opera. Absolute bufoons. You would not survive Weirdmageddon."

"Oh wow, a preteen girl under extreme distress acts like a preteen girl under extreme distress. Whoda thunk?"

#finals #females fucked over tournament #steven universe #avatar the last airbender #gravity falls #rose quartz #katara #mabel pines #raise of hands whos actually surprised that this is the finals

[the-badger-mole]

There's A Difference

I think I've said this before- in fact, I'm almost certain I've said this within the last few months- but the reason I can't let Aang's actions be dismissed by his age is because his worst traits are never addressed in canon. The reason why I personally find him very incel-ish is because the grown men who created him and project onto him strike me as incel-ish (and yes, I'm aware that at least one of them is/has been married. Incel is more of a frame of mind than an actual state of being). Aang could have had a growth arc, but instead Bryke chose to either ignore his flaws or make them out to be virtues. I'm judging Aang as a character, not a child. Because Aang is not an actual child. An actual child might have been confronted on the things Aang did. Aang is a character whose creators want fans to think is perfect, even when they themselves introduce the idea he might not be (Aang's being a terrible father is not that surprising to me, but even then Bryke had to scramble to tell us he wasn't actually that bad 🙄)

I am a lot less harsh with Zuko because he actually faced the consequences of his poor decisions. He worked to make amends not only for himself, but for his family. I empathize with his losses and his personal tragedies because the narrative actually cared about how those things affected him in just about every episode, unlike Aang, whose devastating losses are only touched on when they're convenient to that episode's plot. Otherwise, he is the picture of unbothered to the point that I question if he even knew most of the time that he was in a war (the answer, it would turn out in the penultimate episode, was no, apparently not). There's not much I can criticize Zuko on that wasn't already touched on within the show. Why would I judge Book 3 Zuko based on Book 1 Zuko (who btw, I still think was a much better rounded character than Aang in any of the series)?

When it comes to Katara and the misogyny inherent in how she was treated in her canon ship? Well, I can only point to canon and aks to be proven wrong. Katara had very little to do with the development of Kataang during the series, and that little was usually prompted by someone or something outside of her own thoughts and feelings bringing the idea up. Meanwhile, we know from the beginning that Aang likes Katara (well, he likes how she looks anyway). His feelings matter to the narrative: Katara's not so much. Then the disastrous comics where Katara's character from the show is completely stripped from her and she ends up being the cheerleader girlfriend of the Avatar. I know some of that is walked back in the more recent comics, but we already know how it ends for Katara and her kids. Also, the post LoK scramble to give Katara more agency honestly just makes me think that my original assessment of her relationship with Aang was spot on.

Zutara, in my opinion, would have been a great relationship for them both. They would've been just about perfect together, because as hot tempered as they can both be, they also both get really good at communicating with each other, which is something that Katara never really has with Aang. That's why it doesn't surprise me to find out how dysfunctional their family is. Katara and Zuko know how to work together as a team. In a relatively short time, they got comfortable opening up to each other. They are both passionate to the point that they can be really hot-headed, but they are both also extremely empathetic and compassionate. They are a couple that would've helped each other grow, and would have been so much more interesting than anything that happened with their actual canon relationships.

I get that there are people who would rather believe that Aang could outgrow his selfishness. That's totally valid, and has made for some great stories. However, I don't think saying the way he was written in canon has shades of incel is wrong. Especially by Book 3. I could see that guy growing up to be a viciously obnoxious narcissist. I bet those of us who know an "Aang" IRL can picture that, too.

#atla #zutara #anti aang #anti kataang #incel aang #aang-cel #THE YEAR OF CONTENT!!!!

[mulderscully]

i don't like to hijack other peoples posts so i'm just gonna say that i think people who still think that nandor didn't grow in s4 aren't paying enough attention imo. nandor wants to change, yes! but that doesn't mean the change is immediate. it's going to take time for multiple reasons.

from an in universe perspective you really have to keep in mind that in a lot of ways he is experiencing emotions for the first time. he is 800 years old, even if he did love some of his wives when he was human, he doesn't actually remember it. and if he actually had loved one of them, his unfinished buisness wouldn't have been to be reunited with a horse. like i do not think he understands what he is feeling or why he is doing the things he is because he has never felt these things before.

but aside from that the misinterpretation that he hasn't grown as a character comes from thinking that what nandor did in s4 was intentionally malicious, when it was not. and that why the sort of blind anger at him does frustrate me.

nandor is wwdits central character. he just is. i'm sorry but that's why his storyline can seem repetitive. his and guillermo's relationship is the lynchpin of the show because guillermo represents humanity to him (to the others too, but not to the same degree) so the storyline of him wanting to find love, be happy etc will go on until the end just as guillermo's search for vampirism and belonging will until they both realize and accept that those things go hand in hand. it's not one storyline that can be resolved in one season like other things are, his and guillermo's journey together is the arc that threads through the whole show.

so to say he hasn't changed because there was no "oh." moment or because he didn't get down on his knees and beg is mind boggling to me. there is absolutely no way that in earlier seasons nandor would have stood there, looking guilty and ashamed for what he did, while guillermo yelled at him. and not only did he hear what guillermo was saying, he actively chose (in his backwards ways) to make it right with guillermo AND he admitted he was wrong. this is a big deal. he relented. for guillermo. because he realized he had hurt guillermo when he had obviously NOT meant to! because guillermo's pain and humanity made him stop and actually absord what he had done in his selfish actions ("stop saying things i have done.")

nandor's search and his growth is not over, and until you stop treating him like an actual person who harmed guillermo and marwa instead of like a character in a story you're not gonna grasp that because being upset at nandor and being upset at how a storyline was handled should be completely different things.

he still has two wishes because he still has to learn his lesson. it just couldn't clearer that we have ways to go and nowhere to go but up.

#wwdits #nandor the relentless #nandermo #sort of

[mzminola]

Had the thought “How would the Dynamic Duo of Batman!Dick and Robin!Stephanie have gone?” and immediately started tearing Preboot canon apart and rebuilding it like a LEGO set.

~

Firstly, we gotta make sure Damian isn’t getting sidelined, and for that I propose he and Tim are a team for BruceQuest. Have Damian’s yearning to get to know his dad outweigh his dislike/jealousy/etc of Tim, and highlight Tim’s canonical compassion and forgiving nature.

Either they both make new mantles for this, or they’re both color-coded Robins. Red Robin for Tim, since he’s using Kon’s colors, Green or Blue Robin for Damian (I like Green for he ties to his mom, but him trying to make his own version of the Nightwing suit in some attempt to outrank Tim and everyone calling him Blue Robin would be very funny).

Things start out tense, Damian is only listening to Tim because a) Tim will just have a Titan pick Damian up and drop him back off in Gotham if he’s too much trouble like he was during Resurrection of Ra’s al Ghul, and b) Tim is the only person who believes Bruce is alive and is cautiously keeping some of the methodology of proving it to himself at first.

In the original 2009 Red Robin comic, Tim repeatedly got sidetracked with hero work during his quest. Have that keep happening, and actually spend more time in that period than RR did, because it’s part of Damian’s growth. He starts out pissed at the delays and confused by Tim’s insistence on helping strangers. Tim gives some talks about the Bat philosophy and about why he keeps coming back to the hero life despite everything it’s taken from him.

Damian gets thanked by some of the people they rescue, and slowly shifts from pride in his fighting skills to pride in helping people. Eventually starts actively looking for people to help while they’re searching for artifacts. Tim is so flipping proud of him.

Sets us up for some big choices when the League of Assassins finally gets involved.

~

Okay, back to Stephanie, rewinding the comics even further:

1: Don’t kill off Arthur ‘Cluemaster’ Brown, we need him for later.

2: Tim & Steph never date because this is my LEGO set and I want more platonic boy-girl friend pairs in fiction, dang it. Bruce never tells Steph Tim’s identity and Tim is still keeping it secret. Rather than stalking Tim at school and seeing another girl kiss him, Stephanie and Tim are in the middle of an ongoing argument about secret identities when Jack discovers Tim is Robin and makes him step down.

Tim contacts Steph over the phone to let her know why Spoiler won’t be seeing him around, and that’s when she pulls what she did in canon of making her own Robin suit and volunteering with Batman.

Keep most of War Games, but nix the prolonged torture (because fuck that shit) in favor of quickly-gained but extensive injuries (she was tossed off a building? A building fell on her while she was saving someone?) so she really does need a long recovery period, complete with Dr. Thompkins taking her out of the country.

Honestly not sure if they should still fake her death. If yes, I think it should be Bruce’s idea.

This keeps Steph out of the way so we don’t need to rearrange the in-between canon too much, and potentially adds more fuel to the Keeping Secrets vs Not Keeping Secrets arguments.

The start of our big change for Stephanie’s arc is Violent Tendencies. Instead of agreeing to Bruce’s messed up plan, Stephanie is raring to atone for the lives destroyed back in War Games, and what do you know, some motherfucker just started another city wide gang war!

Spoiler works with Robin to stop Ulysses Armstrong. They never worked their shit out before she first left town, so it’s tense, and they fight, but they prioritize stopping the bad guys and bringing what peace is possible in Gotham.

Have repeated moments where Stephanie’s temper and instinct to argue almost messes things up, but she reins herself in to focus on butt-kicking and detective work. Have Tim notice this newer self-control, and have Steph notice changes in Tim, too.

At least one instance, preferably more, of Stephanie meeting someone who was hurt or lost a loved one in War Games, and wrestling with the fresh reminder of her guilt.

If we want to have a two-steps-forward, one-step-back situation, Tim gets caught in the blast of Armstrong’s bomb because after one of their fights, Stephanie stormed off in a temper, leaving Tim to deal with a two-person job on his own.

This sets up Stephanie second-guessing her decision to keep being a hero. If her own temper keeps getting in the way, should she really be doing this?

If we don’t want that, have it be that Tim takes the brunt of the blast because he threw Stephanie to safety or threw himself on top of her. Because that’s the kind of hero Tim is, because at this point in her arc Steph needs reassurance that her friend still cares about her despite her mistakes, and because it’s an example of heroism Stephanie needs to decide if she wants to copy or not.

Stephanie wants to be a hero.

Does she want to be the kind of hero who throws herself between another person and a bomb?

So either scenario, we set up for Stephanie to be doing some introspection when Bruce gets tossed into the timestream.

~

/points at the fried clone-corpse nearly everyone thinks is Bruce/ “Well he ain't gettin’ any deader!”

Tim calls up Cassandra during the whole Battle For The Cowl incident. She needs to wrap up an investigation, but comes back as soon as she can, which is when the dust has settled. Welcome back to Gotham, Batgirl!

(Cass is the Batgirl to both Tim & Steph’s Robin. She gets her own solo book back and has lots of interactions with Babs during this era.)

Not sure whose idea it is for Stephanie to be Robin again; Tim resigning himself to Dick not helping with BruceQuest? Dick acknowledging Batman needs a Robin and seeing Spoiler is struggling? Stephanie herself, volunteering for the second time?

Regardless, very early on, Arthur Brown gets out of jail or comes back to town and is being a Problem. Stephanie’s got a lot of anger, and Dick helps her deal with that. This is both an echo of Stephanie’s introduction, when she tried to kill her dad, and a way of bringing up Dick’s roots as Robin. He wanted to kill Tony Zucco, remember?

One former hot-headed Robin who’s learned how to find balance and prioritize justice over revenge helping the next generation do the same!

Meanwhile, Jason is also around being a Problem, providing straight up antagonism, but also a different opinion on how vigilantism in Gotham should work, so that Stephanie has multiple views to wrestle with.

Stephanie is a middle-class kid from the suburbs, who, as Jason put it to Tim when breaking into Titans Tower, “slept in a real bed”. But she’s also got a (recovering) drug-addict mother and a criminal father, providing points of commonality for Jason to work with. Remember his speech to Mia Dearden during the Green Arrow crossover?

Jason also plays on Stephanie’s guilt, talking about the fallout of the gang war she started, all of the ripple effects that kept going after the initial burst of violence was over. Describes some of his Under the Red Hood crime lord takeover work as “cleaning up your mess.”

Stephanie regrets everything about War Games, Dick is helping her do better going forward, whereas Jason’s argument is that she should have been more decisively violent at the start. It’s hard for all the mafia bosses to fight each other and get the little people caught up in it if the mafia bosses are dead.

During one altercation between Batman & Robin and the Red Hood, Jason punts Black Mask’s head to them and sarcastically says “You’re welcome.”

Arthur’s current criminal enterprise should directly affect Stephanie’s life in some negative way, so that all of this is fresh, not a It’s In The Past situation, and also be endangering civilians’ lives.

This arc has a big climatic scene of Dick being restrained while Jason gives Stephanie the chance to kill her dad.

(We know she’s not gonna, because she’s the Robin in Batman & Robin, but it should be as suspenseful as we can make it.)

~

Meanwhile over in BruceQuest, Tim & Damian are bonding over being raised with high expectations, and confusing relationships with one’s parents. Tim finally allowing himself to think & say negative things about Jack in order to help Damian grapple with his own upbringing? Heck yes.

Damian & Tim & the crushing weight of family legacies & parental expectations!

Tim being allowed by the narrative to be a big brother to Damian like Dick was to Tim!

Damian coming to see Tim as his brother despite his upbringing focusing on blood, and expressing remorse for the introductory murder attempt!

Ra’s trying to pit them against each other and getting his ass kicked!

Tim standing up to Bruce about his toxic habits once they rescue him because Tim refuses to let Damian go through the same crap he did!

~

Since dads are a big thing for both of the above arcs, we could go for three and bring back David Cain for Cass to deal with. Or keep him away, but bring him up in Cass & Steph’s shared scenes. They bonded over having terrible dads in Batgirl 2000, we can have callbacks.

Tim was sending progress reports back to Gotham during BruceQuest (because whether he left on good or bad terms, he wants the Bats to know what’s going on in case something happens to him and the ten year old he’s in charge of needs a rescue).

Once a week Cass makes popcorn and Babs reads the reports aloud. They make bingo cards for What Crazy Shit The Boys Got Up To This Week. When Tim gets home he makes bingo cards about Batgirl & Oracle’s shenanigans (while stealing some of theirs for his scrapbook). Stephanie demands Batman & Robin bingo cards too, and we discover Babs actually made some years ago when Dick was still Robin.

~

There are a lot of different ways who has what mantle could shake out once these arcs are over (in the very short time before the universe reset) but instead of getting into that I’m just going to imagine everyone reunited & hugging.

#fic ideas #or rather canon rewrite ideas #Stephanie Brown #Damian Wayne #Tim Drake #with appearances by Dick and Babs and Cass and Jason #yes the War Games arc is terrible but this is a rewrite of the AFTERMATH so it's staying #but slightly modified #Robin #Robin Stephanie #Batgirl Cassandra #Tim and Damian being brothers #Batman Dick #DC #Batfam

[octoagentmiles]

do you have any hcs for barnacles and dashi ? I'm rewatching it and many episodes start with the two of them in the main area , oftentimes there's a third person involved but it's always the two of them so they must spend alot of time around each other :O 10 / 10 bonding

Had to think hard about this since Dashi's role in the main series is so small—but you're actually so right 👀 10/10 buddies 👍

You'll get my headcanons I promise but first you gotta listen to me infodump, okay? Deal:

I personally headcanon that Dashi was one of the first Octonauts, she hasn't been around a super long time- but at least long enough that she was probably around for the first Octopod, and that would give her and Barnacles (and the other OGs) plenty of time to get close.

We know Inkling canonically founded the Octonauts, but I imagine that it was actually Barnacles who picked out the crew—over various fateful encounters (Kwazii, Peso), or already knowing them (Tweak)—with the two exceptions of Dashi and Shellington.

Shellington heard about them through the kelp vine by pure chance, and got himself a job via determination. Then, at some point—he recommended Dashi to Barnacles or Inkling, and got her a position as an intern. (He knew her through her photography; she took pictures for him once or something like that.)

I also headcanon they weren't called The Octonauts yet at that point. I headcanon that Dashi came up with the "Octonauts" name during her first few days, and they kept it. (Coincidentally, the first Octopod crashed during those first few days. T'was completely unrelated, I promise 😅)

Fast forward: I've been thinking about Dashi in AnB a lot lately, and the one question that keeps coming up is: "Why did Barnacles make her the Captain of the Octoray?"

They haven't addressed it in the show yet, and it felt a little bit like the writers just wanted her to Do Something, y'know? So I went back to rewatch some of her main series episodes, and this scene from The Surfing Snails stuck out:

This scene shows how much he trusts her. He trusts her to make the right calls, and to be careful. He shows this trust in her again in the Wild Windstorms:

"...I'm ready for this!"

"I know you are, Dashi."

I REALLY wish they had spent more time giving her some kind of arc, showing this trust being built. She absolutely deserved an arc like Peso's, where we could've seen her growth and her bond with Barnacles getting stronger. It would've made the Octoray thing make much more sense, and I would've loved to actually SEE her evolution from "getting stuck in a whale shark" to "inventing stuff with Tweak" to the level of respect that Barnacles clearly has for her in S4 and Beyond, but instead it feels like all that stuff happened off-screen.

I also wanna point out real quick; that Dashi is one of the select few characters to ever call Barnacles by his first name only. This is something that the writers frequently use to emphasize closeness between Barnacles and someone else (Kwazii, Natquik, etc), and Dashi has done it twice. I'll admit I thought it was an error the first time, but then I caught her doing it again in Sac Actun. SO CLEARLY THEY ARE CLOSE. YES? WE AGREE. YES.

ok I'm done. pleasure doing business with you 🤝

*slams hands down on table* MISC. HEADCANON TIME ‼️ (which technically, could all totally be canon until the writers finally decide to give us real information ✨)

She has 100% read ALL of his books and journals, at least twice. Sometimes he gives them to her so she can beta read them, and she's also helped edit a few.

She has written her own journals, mostly in the form of scrapbooks, that she shares with him too. He has a first edition signed copy of one of them.

She made friendship bracelets for everyone on the ship after the Octopod was rebuilt, and he keeps his on his desk. It's still in mint condition.

I feel like at least ONE of the cameras in her collection was a gift from him.

She is trained on how to steer the Octopod manually. Considering the only two on board at the time who knew how to do it were Barnacles and Tweak—her showing slight interest was the only convincing he needed to teach her.

Sadly, she's never needed to use this skill. Yet.

She learned how to play harmonica when he decided to learn accordion, so they could duet together, but she got the hang of it much faster than he did.

They work out together sometimes. She's much stronger than she looks—and has won an arm wrestling match against him at LEAST once. She's also beat him in a foot race; it was almost a very close tie, and she needed to lay down for an hour after—but she did it. He will never live either of these down.

They definitely gossip in HQ sometimes, when it's just the two of them.

#*very long dramatic exhale* i have so many thoughts about dashi. anyway- #octonauts #dashi octonauts #captain barnacles #please excuse the slightly off captions in the surfing snail images - they came like that in the clip and i didn't feel like redoing them #also i forget what episode had dashi calling barnacles his first name for the first time 😭 that's why i didn't specify- #but i DO vividly remember it so i didn't imagine it i promise hgdjfk <3 #it was in like s1 or 2 (p sure 1) and she was in the octopod trying to get a hold of him in the gup-a like ''dashi to barnacles?'' etc etc #but anyway: PLEASE anb give us a barnacles and dashi episode!! show us their friendship 🙏🙏 i beg #also this post is Not Ship. i mean idk what anon's intentions were- but as far as i go this is Not Ship 👍❌ ty <3 #dashi beat barnacles in an arm wrestling match back in her early days when she still had Strong Cave Diving Arms™ #but the foot race was more recent. all the octonauts have strong legs from all the swimming they do but dashi's also a SURFER so 👀 #i feel like these tags end abruptly but idk what else to say so 🤲🤲 you've reached the end of the post‚ have a nice day 👋👋 #the end #le fin #<3

[artistic-mathematics]

my 2am analysis on Dwangela

okay I really don’t know why I decided to write a canon compliant Dwangela fic spanning the entire show like

I don’t even know how I’m gonna begin to write season 4′s stuff. like every time I even think about it I just want to vomit bc HIGHKEY if Dwight had just fed Sprinkles the medicine Angela told him to they probably would’ve gotten married in season 4 and all would’ve been fine but nope it took them eight whole seasons to even get engaged afterwards and then we got almost 0 content of them actually being in a healthy relationship again and it’s just like 3u5irefwngkjej54

this all stemmed from the fact that I genuinely think to this day, Dwangela is still misunderstood by the majority of the community. actually, Angela as a character is still misunderstood, which is crazy considering that this show ended over a decade ago and my first watch was like two months ago.

before anyone says anything YES, Angela was still a horrible person and I don’t really think I need to cite why, but I do think her motivations and eventual progression arc are just completely slept on (and also, season 9 finale Angela is a much, much better person than she was during the rest of the show).

I think the biggest thing I’ve seen from people is like “why did Angela end up with Dwight?” and they just tend to forget that Angela went through an entire character arc in literally just the last half of season 9. would it have been better if the show actually like shown more of it? absolutely. but it’s pretty obvious that Angela from S9E20: Paper Airplane is a completely different Angela from S9E22: A.A.R.M. is she still the greatest person? oh absolutely not, but I do think that her actions in this last half (starting from S9E16: Moving On) show enough growth and maturation that she deserved her own happy ending with Dwight.

(ALSO YES, IT’S A HAPPY ENDING. people who say that Angela is going to cheat on Dwight clearly misunderstood this entire plot line. I’ll get to that later.)

she hits rock bottom in S9E21: Livin’ the Dream and even then we can see a huge difference between this episode and S9E20. in the previous episode, she refused to accept help from Dwight (and by extension, Esther), but in this episode not only does she try to go out of her way to help Andy but she also accepts help from Oscar and actively reaches out for his hand, something that she’d deadass refused to do since season 3 when he was outed as gay. by accepting she needs help and then finally, FINALLY admitting out loud that she loves Dwight (something that she pretty much skirted around when possible, even back in seasons 4-5), she’s shown that she’s finally letting down the walls that she’d constructed for years and years. she’s finally letting herself be vulnerable, and that shit takes strength, especially from someone who’d spent so many years letting pride dictate her life and practically pretended to live a life that wasn’t hers just to save face.

(yes, she did it because she hit rock bottom. but then again, she literally didn’t even have to do that. she could’ve just kept digging a deeper hole for herself anyway, blaming Oscar and the state senator and still refusing to admit anything. would it have helped her? no lol, but at least she was able to analyze and recognize that her own actions were her downfall instead of continuing blaming others for her issues, which she had no problem doing throughout the show.)

another thing I’ve noticed is that people were like “she continued lying to Dwight about Phillip” and I’ma be real with you, I think that lie is the most ethical lie she told throughout the entire series.

let me explain.

actually, let Angela explain, because she outright explains this during Dwight’s proposal that she wanted him to marry her because it was her he wanted to marry. I don’t think this was selfish at all. sure, she probably should’ve told him -- lying about it is still shitty -- but what does she even gain from lying about it? she literally gains absolutely nothing here. she already admitted to Oscar (and by extension, herself) that she loves Dwight. if Dwight were to propose to her because of Phillip, there’s no world where she’d be unhappy in that relationship since she knows she loves Dwight.

but she doesn’t know if Dwight still loves her (yeah, they did make out like five episodes ago BUT remember he’s in a committed relationship now) -- and she was literally just in a loveless marriage. she was also in a loveless engagement, with Andy (and oh my god I might make a post about this at some point but I HAVE SO MANY GRIPES OVER THIS ENGAGEMENT. not at the writers, but just like how did this even??? like?????).

in S9E21, she makes it very clear that she’s accepted that Dwight and Esther are a thing. S9E22 happens some time afterwards (around a month or so according to Dunderpedia) and it’s probably long enough for Angela to realize that it’s genuinely serious, and I mean. just look at Dwight in that episode. he looks so happy.

when Dwight calls Angela into his office to propose that business marriage, I think all of these things came to her mind -- and let’s be honest, the last time they tried to make some business out of something that clearly should be romantic (cough cough sex contract cough cough) it, uh, didn’t go well. and so she lies. she tells him that Phillip isn’t his son, and that lie was enough. it sent his emotions into turmoil, enough so that he ends up calling Jim in and talking to him about it makes him snap to his senses -- that he still loves Angela, and now that Angela is actually available again he needs to go for it.

and of course Angela accepts. you can see her anger from Dwight almost running her off the road completely ebb away when Dwight yells “I love you!” she pauses and processes.

oh also for the people who think that marriage is terrible and that Angela is just gonna cheat on Dwight? the entire point of Dwangela was that Angela couldn’t commit to any of her other romantic relationships because she still loved Dwight. from seasons 2 through 9 she was still very much in love with Dwight, and only cheated on people with Dwight.

also I don’t think Dwight ever stopped loving Angela, either. I mean like, he seemed to really like Isabel and went through an entire talking head where he compared Isabel and Angela to each other but as Jim said to Dwight in S9E21, “you just have to forget about all the logic and fear and doubt” -- and the thing is, I don’t think love ever made sense to Dwight after he broke up with Angela in season 5. it also makes sense as to why Dwight broke up with Isabel so brutally as a result, treating her like absolute garbage the day of Pam and Jim’s wedding.

also I think people forget that like, Dwight was very in on the cheating??? Angela knew she was engaged to Andy in season 5 and knew she was engaged (and eventually married) to the state senator in season 8, like he obviously was a part of this too lmao? and there was a whole episode where people shat on Michael for dating a woman who had a husband and how he was a horrible person LIKE. he knew she was in a relationship and still chose to do what he did. I’m not saying that it’s his fault entirely bc it’s still like 95% Angela’s fault but Dwight buddy, come on, idk what you expected

anyway I go sleep now I just had to get this out before I passed out lol

#angela martin #dwight schrute #dwangela #the office

[livelovecaliforniadreams]

Hi! This isn't meant to be hate, and while I do very much disagree on the chemistry conversation, I understand that must be something that's subjective. I don't understand however, how R*na is supposed to be considered unhealthy, when there's even been friendships on the show that were less healthy than they ever were. I'm just not sure where that came from and I want to know what I missed.

Hey. First off I find it a little odd that your tumblr has no action on it. Makes me think maybe you created it so that whatever your main one is people don't see you asking stuff like this. But it's okay whatever let's ignore that it's not that important. Next whenever anyone says they don't mean it to be hate they actually mean that it's hate. But okay i'll indulge you. I shouldn't because it's always a bad idea but let's go for it.

The chemistry thing is obvious. Just compare Josh's scenes with Olivia and his scenes with Sofia. Compare Matts scenes with Sofia and his scenes with Olivia. Olivia/Josh & Matt/Sofia have natural chemistry & when they kiss or touch or look at each other it feels natural it's not forced.

All the Rina stuff feels super forced and over the top acted. Never said Rina was unhealthy as far as I remember. But they had a terrible buildup. Okay yes they had moments in the early seasons but they were not exciting enough for me to care or remember them.

If they had a gradual buildup that made sense then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. But all Ricky did was ignore Gina for 3 seasons and then suddenly catch feelings last season. He had no interest in her until Nini left. And even this season he was a terrible boyfriend. He never communicated and he just ran away all the time. And he had to go to EJ to get help on how to interact with his girlfriend instead of just talking to her like a normal person. EJ told him to go to her in the rain and EJ told him to sing her a song at the end. If he didn't have EJ would he have done it himself? Probably not. The kid needs therapy and to grow up. He is not mature enough to keep a relationship or stay in one. Maybe if he worked on himself then that's another story.

Now lets talk about EJ & Gina. I mean they had the best buildup. Enemies to Lovers. They built each other up. They saw the best in each other. He went to the freaking airport for her. He showed up for her. And the whole camp thing was obviously just written to make him look like an idiot and horrible boyfriend so the Ricky/Gina thing would seem like it somewhat made sense but it still didn't and for a growth arc. Because you can't go from giving your 100% to nothing that quick. Come on it's just not realistic. But then this season he grew as a person/matured as a person. He learned from his mistakes and apologized for them. He communicated with Gina. He was there for her and he didn't need to have someone tell him what to do. He was just there as a friend for her after all the shit she put him through. He had her back. He showed up for her when she needed him. All Ricky did was run and run and run.

I'd respect Rina if Ricky made more of an effort the first 3 seasons. If he acknowledged stuff but he just was always making an effort with Nini. And I still will forever believe they were the endgame but Olivia left and Tim was like well we have no other choice now but to put him with Gina. Cause there is no reason for a beautiful enemies to lovers buildup just for a plot device. I'm sorry there just isn't.

Ej & Gina just have so many of the same things that Pacey/Joey & Jess/Rory have and they are the gold standard. So obviously if Tim were not writing this show and Olivia had not left we would have had EJ/GINA thriving this last season.

But you know what it's okay because this show takes place in high school. So 10-15 years down the line Ricky/Nini will be back together and so will EJ/Gina. They are the one that got away ship that ends up together a long time down the road.

I'll leave you with one last thing. They model themselves after Troy/Gabriella supposedly. Well Troy/Gabriella are in therapy. HAHA sorry to break it to you but your endgame is toast.

This is my opinion don't agree or agree with it I don't care. But you asked me so this is what you get.

AND I WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANY OTHER RESPONSES TO THIS OR ANY OTHER ASKS THAT COME AFTER THIS. THIS WAS A ONE TIME RESPONSE. CAUSE I KNOW THIS WILL BE A THING AND I'M NOT GOING DOWN THIS RABBIT HOLE.

[psychewritesbs]

Right.

So... apparently there’s fans who believe that Athrun loved Lacus and that is why the memes about Kira stealing girlfriends exist. But I must admit I never got the impression that Athrun ever saw his engagement to Lacus as anything more than a political alliance that was in everybody’s best interest.

And watching GS again I have to say I am doubling down on my headcanon because... well...

Their dynamic is so...

Basically Athrun is so not emotionally available to Lacus... like at all. 

It’s so Scorpio of him to put up emotional barriers any time she tries to get close. Like in the screencap above where he actually refuses her touch and walks away from her.

And I get the sense that in the early episodes of GS Athrun didn’t understand what it meant for him to want to open up to someone and to actually want to be  present in a dynamic with someone. 

His dynamic with Lacus was something that was an expectation set by others after all. So there’s an element of forced interaction between the two of them.

Yes, there’s all the haros he’s given her, so there is definitely a sense of Athrun expressing something about his inner self through the creation of objects that he then gives her. 

It’s just that given the current state of their interactions early on in GS + the fact that their engagement is very likely the result of a desirable political alliance because of their respective fathers, there’s an element of “doing what a good fiancé would do.”

I’ll not deny that he very likely cares for Lacus. I think it’s completely undeniable actually--the haros being evidence of it.

It’s just that in a situation such as theirs where they are initially forced to interact with one another because they are to be married someday, I imagine both Athrun and Lacus came into this engagement thinking “ok this is who I am supposed to marry” instead of “ok this is who I want to marry.”

And so the basis for their dynamic is this forced interaction that they both have to make work because other people have told them it needs to work. Both Athrun and Lacus then brought their own personalities into the dynamic in an attempt to meet this external expectation.

I also have to say that as a fellow water sign, I can’t imagine that Athrun found it satisfying to not feel an emotional resonance to Lacus. I say that because if he felt that emotional resonance, his attitude towards her would be different.

Instead, he appears to be annoyed by her...

Hell, he didn't even seem to want to go on a rescue mission to find her when she disappeared and was picked up by the Archangel.

And even if the marriage wasn’t arranged by their parents (I don’t remember honestly) and Athrun and Lacus are childhood friends and he proposed to her...

He’s kind of a cranky and mean fiancé to her if I’m honest...

I love Athrun but that was a dick thing to say, Lacus was worried about him and he turns his back on her and gives her a nasty answer. 

It doesn’t surprise me that Lacus ended with Kira because, unlike Athrun, Kira was able to meet her emotionally where she was at.

So I think that’s why later on in the story Athrun says that Lacus is his ex-fiancé because he was an idiot. He simply had not realized what he wanted because he was doing what was expected of him.

Living to fulfill other’s expectations without looking into one’s heart is always a recipe for disaster and unhappiness.

I think this is my third time watching GS (I swear just how I only read Soul Eater for Soul and Maka, I only watch GS for Athrun and for asucaga) and it’s really cool to be able to discern Athrun’s character arc at its early stages because part of his growth revolves around overcoming his daddy issues so that he can open up emotionally.

Ah, of course, I have to say that this ramble is inspired and influenced by this fantastic analysis that I found on the topic by someone else who agrees that Athrun cared for Lacus but didn’t love her in the romantic sense.

I have to admit that seeing how Athrun behaves with Lacus and comparing that to how he behaves with Cagalli is a dead giveaway of the state of his relationship with Lacus.

Anyways. 

Is there anyone out there in this fandom that still nerds out about this stuff?!!!!!!!!!

#athrun zala #gundam seed #that's it #I'm a mega nerd #writing essays to justify my otp by nitpicking at tiny little details

[misteria247]

Okay— so!

I like the Oroku sibs thing you have going on it's just so sweet and aofnoenfoent

Idk if i havent seen it but is Raph the leader instead? Since i think it would fall on him without leo being there. What would his leadership be like? Wr know how his time being the leader ended up with, so how does he cope?

And if there's no leader, i just think they work together, with Raph callong the shots when it comes to fighting, Donnie caing the shots when it comes to important science stuff, and mikey calling the shots when it comes to interacting with new people.

ALSO ALSO SORRY FOR ASKING A LOT BUT

Would Karai still be a snake? Would Leo be thrown in the mutagen with her?

And What would the space arc look like? Would karai join in?

That's all, sorry if the asks the a lot rkfjt

Hello my friend! First off don't apologize for all the questions! I like answering them whenever I can and it's always nice to interact with everyone!! Second off sgsgsfsfsfsf I'm glad you're enjoying the Oroku siblings, they're literally are becoming my children at this point and it's just such a fun concept to play around with and knowing that others like em as well makes me super happy!! Now onwards to your questions-!!!!

Hmmm to be completely honest with you I've actually been thinking about the whole leader thing for this au and one of those thoughts for a possible leader was surprisingly enough Donnie. While I adore Raph to bits and pieces and he'd make a great leader, I also know that my boy is a passionate turtle who sometimes goes head first into things without really planning. And Mikey, while talented and a prodigy, can also be a bit spaced out and off the ball sometimes when it comes to leadership. Donnie on the other hand likes to plan things and when he's not completely stressed out he's pretty good in the strategy department. So going based on this logic if anything plus thinking about how Splinter chose Leo in the original series because of his quick thinking, he'd probably go with Donnie. That and personally I think it'd be an interesting idea to play around with since we've already seen Raph be the leader in Rise and in that one episode of 12. But I'm also thinking about just making all the boys have a say in leadership as well. Honestly it's got so many things that it could go and I'm just playing around with what would fit best! As for how he'd cope Raph would probably be very much like he was in the show only instead he'll be much more willing to intervene in Donnie's leadership role whenever he feels like something's not done right or he feels like his little brother is in need of guidance or assistance.

Ah yes Snake Karai! Honestly she'll still get turned into a snake mutant! It'll just be under different circumstances than the original ones in the show! I just have to figure it out better. I've got an idea of Karai getting caught by the Shredder to be used as a pawning chip to lure both Leo and Splinter out of hiding, only for it to not go according to his plans. I've got to plan it out more for it to make sense lol. It'd basically be an opening for Leo to bond with his original family and clan on a one on one type of ordeal, plus give him a chance to grow to be his own person away from Karai somewhat. Since Leo his entire life has been trained to be her bodyguard and in a way doesn't really feel like he has a sense of purpose other than to protect his older sister. Which is something that drives Karai nuts because she wants him to be able to feel like he has a choice in what his destiny should be instead of the lessons their ex master and father Shredder had drilled into him. Plus Karai's character growth would take place in the five months her little brother is in his coma since she's always been by her little brother's side since she was five and he was four.

As for the Space arc yes most definitely Karai would be joining the Hamato kids, April and Casey on their journey. Mainly to help protect Leo and her new little brothers as well as trying to save their father and planet. Basically wherever Leo goes, Karai is sure to follow and vice versa. It's one of the reasons why they're called the Princess of the Foot clan and the Shadow of the Foot clan because they're rarely seen without the other attached to their hip. And if it's something as dangerous as a journey to outer space with a android and several new alien species out there, you can bet that Big Sister Karai is definitely going to be tagging along with her little brother who seems to be a magnet for trouble on a good day. (That and the thought of letting Leo go alone on a journey like this fills Karai with a shit ton of anxiety. Because the last times Leo had been left alone without her had been when he was about six years old and had been seen by a villager who attacked him with field equipment giving him a nasty scar on his arm, and when he was about fifteen years old when the Shredder had beaten him to death and tried to drown him, resulting in a ruined knee, a wicked cracked scar on the back of his shell, a scarred and ruined throat and vocal chords and a five month coma. So she's pretty paranoid about leaving him alone during dangerous missions.)

#oli talks #ooc #muns ramblings #mindless ramblings of a madman #asks #ask and you shall receive #my writing #writers on tumblr #writers on ao3 #teenage mutant ninja turtles #rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles #rise of the tmnt #tmnt #rottmnt #tmnt 2012 #tmnt 2k12 #teenage mutant ninja turtles 2012 #tmnt leo #tmnt karai #tmnt raph #tmnt donnie #tmnt mikey #tmnt splinter #tmnt shredder #tmnt april #tmnt casey #Oroku siblings #please don't ever think that you're asking too many questions my friend lol i don't mind it at all

[houxe]

The Ranboo replaces Tommy Narrative and how it’s Just Not True

The title really says it all, but I’m starting to get really tired of people pushing this narrative that Ranboo ‘replaces’ Tommy in the SBI dynamic in canon. Especially now that new people are coming in since season 1 has ended and there’ll be people going back to learn about the first season. Because, as the title says, this idea is not true at all and I feel as though we need to discuss it. As well as the fact that some of the points people give to support this claim are genuinely worrying.

Also, I’m going to preface this by saying there is a difference between a character (Tommy) believing they were replaced compared to them actually being replaced.

Please note, I don’t want this breakdown and opinion to be seen as a ‘gotcha moment’ or a ‘Tommy is better than Ranboo’ post, because that’s not what this is about and people are entitled to like some characters more than others. This is about what actually happens in canon and the actual relationships portrayed in canon that some fans are trying to erase and force their fanon narrative into instead.

Also, all of this is about the characters, unless stated otherwise with ‘cc!’

So let’s get into this.

First off, Ranboo does not interact with SBI the same way Tommy does at all, and their character brings very little development to the others. Whereas almost every encounter Tommy has with SBI, there’s some kind of development or personal growth going on between them. It’s very obvious that Ranboo is some sort of close friend, but not anywhere near what Tommy is to them. 

Hell, Tommy is allowed to do shit to the rest of SBI that other characters would be, and have been, murdered for. 

(We also need to address the false idea that SBI are not morally corrupt characters in canon when they’ve literally committed war crimes—but that’s for another post)

Case in point is when Tommy steals from Techno for the Dream fight and the guy just- doesn't care all that much. Even after the events of Doomsday and how they were both hurt by it.

Ever since Ranboo joined the Commune with Phil and Techno, they had done almost nothing with them, character development wise. They were just there and didn’t build much plot with it. Yes, there were a few mining/gathering streams, the adventure streams, and a few others scattered about. But it didn’t really grow anything in their relationships besides Techno and Ranboo becoming a little closer.

Also, this is not a bad thing. A character not having a lot of character development around specific people doesn’t mean they’re a badly written character or anything like that. It just means that some of these characters don’t play a major role or have an important relationship in someone else’s story and that’s perfectly okay!

Now we’re going to break down the relationships character by character. Starting with the most damning one, Wilbur.

People need to understand that Wilbur was not Ranboo’s friend during the Burger Van Arc. He was using Ranboo for his own gain and you can see that throughout the streams. He did not care about them and only kept them around as a pawn/to make himself feel better because he knows Ranboo just says things people want to hear. 

You can see this by comparing the way Wilbur talks to Ranboo and Quackity. With Ranboo, he changes the tone of his voice and the wording of what they’re doing, so it looks like he changed from the time he was revived. With Quackity, he flips on a dime and immediately goes back to how he was before, antagonizing, cruel, and petty. Showing that he really hasn’t changed, and that he is, in fact, manipulating Ranboo to get what he wants and to fight against Quackity because the man wouldn’t let him into Las Nevadas.

The only time Wilbur stops to care is when Ranboo dies, but even then, he doesn’t mention it all that much. Even when he talks to Phil about it, it feels like he was just placating the man after Ranboo’s death and almost like it was an afterthought to him, something he brushes off almost instantly because he genuinely didn’t care for Ranboo.

Compare this to Tommy, where Wilbur actively tries his best to keep Tommy with him, no matter what. Especially when they’re setting up the trap for Quackity and he demands Tommy’s trust and for him to stay, after Tommy calls out his lies. In fact, he’s so desperate to make Tommy stay, that it’s to the point where he admits that the only reason he didn’t involve Tommy in the Burger Van was because he ‘didn’t want Tommy to get hurt’. Showing that Wilbur was, in fact, using Ranboo as a pawn.

Hell, Wilbur cares so much about Tommy that it got to the point where he didn’t even want to apologize because he was utterly terrified of being rejected and his apology not accepted. Wilbur made the active decision to not apologize because he thought that once he did, it would be over and Tommy would leave him. And that scared him.

His character only starts to grow from this once he finds out about Exile and what happened to Tommy. The man even has a whole ass daydream about beating Dream to death because of what he did to Tommy. He blacks out after it’s explained to him. He is pissed beyond belief and wants revenge for what happened. Obviously, he decides it’s better to get Tommy out from under Dream’s control, but he’s still very protective and was even willing to sacrifice himself and go back to Limbo to help Tommy.

Something he doesn’t even think about with Ranboo when they stepped on the explosives, and it’s very worrying that people don’t see the manipulation that went on between the two and try to push this rhetoric that they became friends. Friends close enough that Ranboo would ‘take Tommy’s place’ when it isn’t true.

Now we’re moving onto Phil.

I am aware that there was supposed to be some whole adoption stream between Phil and Ranboo that was apparently thrown out, and Techno made a joke about Phil adopting Ranboo, but that was honestly retconned as soon as Phil agreed with Wilbur calling Ranboo ‘the neighbor kid’. Also, they didn’t have a lot of streams where they were bonding, and doing a plot like that wouldn’t have made any kind of sense and would have just been out of the blue. Especially because the guy just lost his actual son and destroyed the one physical thing that was still connected to him? Hell, if it had happened, people would think Ranboo was replacing Wilbur, Phil’s canonical son, instead of Tommy, lmao.

But I digress, let’s continue.

Phil’s character is mild compared to everyone else. It can be hard to tell what he’s thinking, and he doesn’t tend to act in a very obvious way. But there are some things that stand out a lot between his relationships with Tommy and Ranboo.

Obviously, Phil hasn’t interacted a whole bunch with Ranboo after offering them a place to stay. He generally doesn’t keep hard feelings, though that is fairly inconsistent since he disowned Fundy but flipped on a dime to take in Ranboo ‘because he could tell he didn’t want to do it.’ Which is a fairly poor excuse when Ranboo has actively disagreed with the cabinet before, but a lot of stuff was really just thrown around during this time. 

I think many people tend to build up this relationship a lot because Phil and Ranboo have not interacted often or shown a close relationship besides being friends. Not to mention there has been little to no character development between the two. There’s nothing to work with and for both characters, the other is just… in the background most of the time, besides the instance where Phil extended a helping hand and a place to stay or when he met Michael. Neither is really a main supporting character in each other’s story and, again, that’s okay. They don’t need to be a main supporting character and you can start to see that this is the case around the time Ranboo dies outside the prison.

Phil almost shrugs Ranboo’s death off, their revival an afterthought when Dream is right there with the power to bring them back. Something Phil knows about because he’s the one who found out Tommy was revived by Dream. Even when Techno remembers that Dream can revive Ranboo and mentions it, Phil just gives a little ‘oops’ and laughs it off before going into his house. And when he meets Ranboo’s ghost, there isn’t much of a reaction either, because they weren’t extremely close to begin with. 

Yes, Ranboo is considered Techno’s friend because they actually had at least a few conversations and meet ups. But that rarely happened with Phil and after a while they just stopped all together besides Syndicate meetings. Do they call each other friends? Definitely! But not to the extent that some try to force into canon.

Compared to Tommy, he and Phil have interacted a lot more. Especially during the time right before Doomsday. The man even had a picture of Tommy in his house, before someone stole the face. Hell, the two had gotten so close during post-Exile that when Tommy died, Phil point blank refused to believe it and actively tried to convince himself it was a lie until he went searching for the truth on his own. 

He genuinely cares for Tommy and made a point to protect him when Dream hunted him down after the prison escape. Even agreeing to walk him home and watch over him until he felt safe, taking the time to try and impart lessons on him, and just generally being there when Tommy needed help because the two have actually bonded. 

Phil was a major point in helping Tommy develop as a character, including the situation where Phil was on house arrest and Tommy was trying to help Techno get him out and was upset by it. There is a real connection there rather than stuff that’s been made up by fans and treated as canon when it’s not.

I do understand that a lot of people like to build up character relationships, and the relationship between Ranboo and Phil isn’t the only one to go through this. The issue only comes when people are actively trying to say one character has a better relationship with another, compared to someone else, when it’s shown to not be true and are trying to force this false narrative of ‘replacement’ into canon. 

I also understand people have a favorite character and wish they had a better relationship with another character they like, and that’s totally fine and valid! But you are confusing people. There are many new watchers who do not want to watch every lore stream and constantly pushing this idea as canon when it doesn’t happen, is what causes arguments amongst fans who are genuinely confused about what is canon and what isn’t.

Finally, we’re going to move onto Techno.

Point blank. I don’t understand why people have this idea that Techno replaces Tommy with Ranboo. Because their relationships are entirely different from each other and we see that in the way they interact. Ranboo is Techno’s friend. Yes, that has been established. And they have also been jokingly referred to as Techno’s student. But Techno has never shown any brotherly or fatherly actions towards Ranboo, and cc!Techno had openly set a boundary against people saying Ranboo is his kid or anything like that. Tommy was also never Techno’s ‘student’ and their relationship is much more complicated and intense than the one between Ranboo and Techno.

Ranboo and Techno are close in a way where they are but are not. Obviously, they’re friends, but this distance is mainly because Ranboo had been lying to Techno since day one and they’re both introverts who only go out occasionally. Their relationship is close, but distant enough that they can go months without feeling the need to talk to each other. Which can excuse their lack of speaking through streams.

I think people forget that the biggest reason Ranboo joined the Syndicate was to spy on them so they wouldn’t go and hurt Tubbo or Snowchester. Which has also no doubt kept Ranboo away from getting too close, because Techno would’ve killed them after finding that out. Before the incident at the prison, obviously. Also, yes, cc!Ranboo also said his character joined because he didn’t like governments anymore, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that Ranboo has been spying on them for their own gain and we all know Techno doesn’t take betrayal lightly and Ranboo knows this too.

And for those who will no doubt bring it up: There is a big difference between Tommy’s ‘betrayal’ and what could’ve been Ranboo’s potential betrayal. Tommy was honest about his intentions and what he wanted the entire time in both Pogtopia and Post-Exile, and Techno knew them. Not once did Tommy try to intentionally gaslight him otherwise. Meanwhile, Ranboo was not honest and continuously lied and misled all of the Syndicate, save for Phil. It was for a good purpose, yes, but not something Techno would forgive like he did with Tommy, and it would’ve been an amazing plot to see.

Tommy’s relationship with Techno has a lot more meaning and connection behind it. They’ve been through revolution, war, physical and mental healing, and hurt feelings caused from both sides. They both show obvious care and affection for each other, even after they split up and were hurt, and we see this in Techno’s will where he purposefully dedicates a little paragraph to Tommy, wishing him the best, and then Tommy admits on stream that he should apologize to Techno. 

Tommy even admits that Techno is like a brother to him and Techno has always acted brotherly towards Tommy in return. Such as indulging him in almost anything he wants, letting him run amok and build ugly cobblestone towers, and steal his shit without even putting up that much of a fight, but still willing to fight and protect him. They have a very clear, even if very complicated, relationship and they continue with this throughout the story/streams, including their little ‘off screen bedrock bros reconciliation’ where Techno indulges all of Tommy’s silly little jokes. Their personalities also just mesh well, especially with Tommy not being afraid to stand up to Techno, like so many other characters are, and speak his mind. That’s not something you can just switch out with someone who crumbles easily under pressure and expect it to be the same. 

Again, I understand that people have a favorite character and you are valid in that, but you can’t just take one character and try to put them in another character’s story when it doesn’t fit. 

It’s okay that Ranboo doesn’t have a strong connection to SBI like Tommy does because they’re their own character and they have their own story. Ranboo has a lot of other relationships (such as Niki and Tubbo) that they put effort into and it’s honestly so sad seeing all these other characters and relationships be tossed to the side in favor of trying to force Ranboo into something they’re not heavily involved in.

You can’t just use Tommy’s story and dynamic and put Ranboo in it because you want them in a better relationship with Wilbur, Techno, and Phil in canon or because you don’t like Tommy, but you like Ranboo and the dynamic. Ranboo has their own relationships with those three. Sure, the relationships aren’t as developed as some people want them to be, nor as nice, but you can build up the relationships that are already there in your own works instead of trying to push this false narrative into canon. 

It isn’t fair to Ranboo’s character, story, and all the work they put into it, nor SBI’s for that matter, to be tossed aside so you can force a square block into a circle shaped hole.

Adding onto that, Ranboo has never shown an incentive to being more than just friends with SBI. They helped Wilbur because that’s just their personality. They talk with Phil because they’re regular friends. And their relationship with Techno never went past being friends/being a student, nor did they try to push that and attempt to have a dynamic with them that’s similar to Tommy’s. Ranboo has shown that they are very comfortable with where they are in terms of their relationship with SBI and hasn’t tried to change it. 

Not to mention, people don’t LIKE being replacements. Ranboo would not like being Tommy’s ‘replacement’ and they would definitely give a whole ass speech about it, if it actually happened in canon. Even with a worm for a spine, they would speak up and be genuinely upset over it for both themself and for Tommy. Just like they did when Tommy took all the blame and got exiled, and the cabinet was talking badly about him. 

Think of it like this: How would you feel if someone only talked to you because you had a few similar traits to someone else? Would you feel good about yourself? Would you like that? Knowing that someone doesn’t actually like you for you and only the things that remind them of another person? If not, why would you think Ranboo would like that? Someone who already has self-esteem issues and clear imposter syndrome because of their Enderwalk state?

Because that’s the idea people are pushing when they try to put Ranboo in Tommy’s place in the SBI dynamic, when they already have their own relationship with them. 

I think fans have a bad habit of mixing up cc!Ranboo’s personality with the character and even then, they still get their character wrong. In what world is cc!Ranboo even remotely similar to Tommy or cc!Tommy? In what world would cc!Ranboo ever be okay with replacing his friend, for that matter? As a cc! who is very vocally against those sorts of things and has made videos about it?

Adding in, people who do this actively have to give Ranboo Tommy’s personality traits because the story and dynamic between 4/4 SBI won’t work with what Ranboo has already made for their character. If they don’t give them these traits, then SBI just treat them like a doll that they can play with and push to do whatever they want because Ranboo has no spine (seriously, a terrible case of being a people pleaser) and the three of them can all be very intense and demanding characters. We’ve already seen this with Wilbur and even Techno. (When he kept pressuring Ranboo to join the Syndicate and backed them into a corner.)

And when people do try to merge these two wildly different personalities, it only makes Ranboo look like a cheap, quiet knock off that SBI only likes because they have traits similar to Tommy, but they can make them do whatever they want. Basically, the same thing above, but with more steps. 

Not to mention, doing this makes it appear as though Ranboo is a tool or a fleeting object to use and toss away. (Especially in Wilbur’s case.) And it just makes SBI look abusive because their 4/4 dynamic with Tommy doesn’t fit with Ranboo’s character. There is constant push back and banter between all of them that can be really intense in the story, (let’s be honest Ranboo would not survive Pogtopia nor Revived Wilbur if they were treated the same as Tommy, and if they were the one to fight Techno, people would be calling for Techno’s head) and eventually Ranboo would not be able to deny them after a certain point. (Again, we’ve seen this with both Techno and Wilbur.) And I’m saying this as a Dark SBI writer who doesn’t even like Ranboo—

Again, Ranboo would not be okay with this. Yes, they have no spine, and it’d take them a bit to work up the courage to speak up, but they would say something if they were actually treated as a replacement in canon. They would feel awful, and self-conscious, and have imposter syndrome about all of it. Both for themself and for Tommy.

And adding onto that, Ranboo and Tommy are nothing alike. I see these comments about how Ranboo is just an ‘upgraded Tommy’ because they’re ‘quiet’ when their personalities are completely different. Ranboo is shy, soft-spoken, awkward, a people pleaser, needs to be pushed to speak their mind, and has more of a deadpanned, responsive type of humor. Tommy, on the other hand, is loud, abrasive, and stubborn. He’s not afraid to speak his mind at any point in time and his humor is about being loud and making random jokes or laughing randomly. They are complete opposites, which is why they were very good friends in the beginning.

Just because you don’t like a character doesn’t mean you can take bits and pieces from them and give it to your favorite. Not to mention, it’s entirely hypocritical for the specific fans who don’t like Tommy because of his ‘personality’, but then they turn around and give bits of said personality to Ranboo. If you don’t like the character, that is completely valid! But don’t try and give a reasoning- just to throw that reasoning to the side so you can change your favorite character’s story in canon.

It’s so insulting to the character Ranboo made to be boiled down to an ‘upgraded version’ of someone else instead of being their own character and personality. Not to mention Tommy’s character, too. You can’t just steal all the stories and relationships and plots he’s worked for and on, and give it to someone else. It’s rude, it’s insulting to both of them, and it doesn’t work.

It isn’t true, it’s not what happens. The characters and their relationships aren’t even remotely similar in any way, and you’re confusing people and potentially causing arguments and fans to dislike characters because of it. 

Just because one character has a relationship with other characters who have a more meaningful relationship with someone else, doesn’t mean they’re replacing said other character. 

That’s like saying Tubbo or Fundy ‘replaces’ Tommy in the Crime Bois dynamic when they all have different relationships and a ‘replacement’ idea would have never crossed anyone’s mind. I genuinely don’t understand why this ‘replacement’ idea was pushed so heavily with Ranboo, when it clearly isn’t the case and they have a normal relationship with SBI. If it was Tubbo in their shoes, it wouldn’t have been a thing at all.

But, again, I digress

Obviously, you are 100% allowed to have your AUs and stories and share them wherever you like! But don’t put out this false narrative because you don’t like a specific character and try to force it to be actual CANON when everything in the story points the other way.

Anyway, I got a little carried away, but these are just my thoughts and opinions on this idea that ‘Ranboo replaces Tommy’ nonsense being pushed into canon. 

#dsmp #dream smp #dsmp lore #tommyinnit #ranboo #discussion #more of a rant really #I'm tired of this grandpa #why was this such a big idea #please let ranboo have their own personality and relationships with other characters my god- #they ain't just another version of tommy please- #they can have bad relationships with people #that's how characters work

[mlchaelwheeler]

Another Anon here: you can tell she doesn't want him in those moments, because when she walks past them she does this annoyed sigh thing and is PURPOSELY ignoring Mike. She doesn't look guarded or peeved like that with anyone else. She's relaxed and sad but relaxed still. And Mike looks and acts so defeated about it. If they're so endgame and better than ever right now then why have her act that way? Lol. Rest in peace to the milkers. 🤭

YES her sigh is so telling! Like, she just got what she supposedly wanted (Mike telling her he loves her) yet she's not happy. Why?? Probably because she heard Will urging him to say it. She saw right through his lies and I know it.

If that was supposed to be milkvan's romantic moment™️, that was a fail. If I was a milkvan shipper, I'd be thoroughly disappointed. That monologue sucked (if you don't look past the surface level) and didn't help improve Mike and El's relationship at all. It's actually really sad because El deserves so much better.

I'm a firm believer that El doesn't need romance in her life right now. Instead, she's focused on building platonic relationships she's been lacking all her life: a true friend (Max) and a loving parent (Hopper). El needs to discover who she is outside of a relationship, and S2/3 have shown that El only grows as a character when she's not with Mike. This is intentional.

I always see milkvans saying that we say El can't be independent while with Mike but Will can be independent if he gets together with Mike, and how contradictory that is. This is because they're not realizing that Will is already his own person! He has interests and healthy relationships and is already independent. His scenes with Mike are when his character grows!! On the other hand, El doesn't know who she is. She's not sure what her interests really are and hasn't had time to develop meaningful relationships because she's always tied to Mike. Her scenes with Mike are the opposite of Will's: instead of having character growth she regresses and stays static. Being with Mike halts any character growth she may have, so it's essential to her S5 arc to realize she's better off focusing on platonic love so she can grow her sense of independence.

I think everyone (bylers and milkvans) want what's best for El. The narrative has shown over and over that her character shines the most when she can be independent. This is why I believe milkvan is not endgame and will be breaking up early in S5. It's clear from the end of V2 that Mike and El are not on good terms. El knows he was lying and will soon find out why due to the painting. She'll break up with Mike when she realizes that the love Mike has for Will is much deeper and different than the love Mike has for her. She deserves better than being dragged along and lied to and will pursue strengthening her platonic relationships in S5 instead, hopefully.

#this turned into a rant sorry. but. yah #ask sarah #anon tag #el hopper #byler

[agoddamn]

Was thinking about fuckable old men, and had some thoughts about mentor figures in stories. Often with a wise mentor/guide, people will either complain about how boringly perfect they are, or be weirdly resentful of any flaws. Even more so if the character is initially presented as very wise, only to later show any flaws (thinking of like Rose Quartz and idk. Dumbledore). It's weirdly common for people to go on about how boring and perfect a mentor is, and then freak out that they're not perfect and instead just a person.

It's like. It seems like a very childish response to me, and whenever I see that kind of behavior from older people, it just screams "I have mommy/daddy issues". Idk where I'm going with this, but you're the #1 fucker of old and pathetic characters so, thoughts?

Tangent: I think I'm like the only person who liked Dumbledore being gay and thought it was believable. Usually, if a narrative introduces an older male and female pair (Dumbledore and McGonagall, from the literal page 1) it's with the intent of eventually setting them up.

Otherwise, if there's no implicit romantic match for a mentor character it's because a similar-age women literally does not exist (Obi-Wan Kenobi pre-TCW)--or because they're so narratively isolated it would be impractical, typically by their imminent death (Yoda). Batman's Alfred has Leslie Thompson to play off of, frex. Dumbledore having no vague chemistry with Minerva whatsoever was noticeable, even way back before the announcement. His fondness for flamboyant fashion is also, in retrospect, classic gay coding. I fully believe that JKR purposely set that up and didn't just go "uhhh yeah Hogwarts was SUPER diverse" after the fact.

(She did do that with a bunch of other things, to be clear, just not gay Dumbledore.)

(As a tangent to a tangent, we can safely blame Wertham's Seduction of the Innocent for all characters ever having a bad case of the not-gays. It all comes back to comics every time!)

Anyway! Real answer!

Yes, I agree that people tend to get a bad case of projection when it comes to older characters. It happens to characters in any form of fiction that features a relatable everyman protag, but older mentor characters seem to get it extra bad.

I think some of it comes from mentor characters typically being presented as entirely supportive figures; they don't get the same narrative real estate--the same opportunity for character growth-- that, say, the rival gets. A mentor's job is to Be Good And Support MC, not have a character arc. Thus, the particular sense of betrayal the audience has when the mentor character has slightly different goals than the protagonist.

And I do mean "slightly different" goals--to use OT Obi-Wan as an example again, think of how angry people get at him hiding that Anakin was Vader. People get angrier than Luke did in the actual canon discussion the characters have about it! Luke and Obi-Wan align in 99.5% of their goals--the only difference is that Obi-Wan feels that Luke has to accept the reality that he may have to kill Vader.

This is a viewpoint that makes perfect sense for his character. Even before the prequels added the backstory that put Obi-Wan in the same position as Luke, where he could have killed him but chose not to deal a finishing blow, it's...not actually all that strange to keep the sordid details of a parent's past from a kid. Kids want to love their parents. Kids don't want to hear, "hey, your dad tried to kill you!" and they certainly don't want to hear that at a formative, tender age.

You can argue the technical logistics of Force connections and whether Luke was more or less at-risk with his knowledge of Vader, but I genuinely believe that the intended real-world parallel was this situation ("I want to let the kid believe he had a good father") rather than...some of the more extreme interpretations I've seen.

Because people hate this lie. In spite of it being a perfectly logical choice for Obi-Wan's character, they hate him for it and rail against him for "stealing Anakin's children." I've seen fics/headcanons/'metas' that go "Obi-Wan had to have been planning on setting him off like a school shooter in 20 years" or "Obi-Wan was planning to use him as a guided missile from the beginning" and...that's just way harder for me to buy than "he couldn't tell this kid who wanted to love his father than Anakin tried to kill him."

tl;dr mentor characters typically don't get character arcs and so people feel betrayed when they have visible needs and desires outside of validating the protagonist.

#asks

[lovecolibri]

SaL anon here friend, back to (continue to) bitch in your inbox. Just read @outrunningthedark's excellent comments on the sperm donor arc on my lunch break and felt the need to continue my tirade. I would add to her observations that, while we did see Buck break up with TayKay, it was over "drama" not a choice on Buck's part after really considering if he was happy (and why it fell so flat next to the eddieana breakup). Anyway when I left off I was bitching about how illogical the whole premise

of this arc was, and would have probably dropped my whinging over how nonsensical everything about it was if not for last episode. How the hell did we get from Buck saying "donor, not dad" to Hen in episode 3 to "I'm going to be a father" in the finale?? Is there some conversation that happened in KR's head she forgot to mention?? Because Buck seems pretty clear on what his role is in this whole process when talking to Hen, but now has done a 180 and is calling himself a dad. That's a pretty big leap, and while I agree Buck can get pretty enthusiastic or go overboard as part of his personality, he's not fucking naïve!! He knew then, and if he didn't, as you pointed out once, the mountain of paperwork he would have to sign to be a donor, that makes clear he's giving up all rights to that, sure as hell would!! So what changed, why is Buck suddenly convinced he's going to be playing a role in this kids life? More importantly, Eddie's snarky comment aside, why aren't his friends calling him out on this?? Again, this seems so contrived as a way to put Buck through the wringer at the expense of making him ignorant (what's that?? Oh, its the echoes of Michael Guerin's s4 plot). Anyway that wraps up both lunch and my bitching on this particular aspect of this dumb arc, next up we can talk about how there is no good way to wrap up this storyline or accomplish what KR supposedly wants (Buck's growth). Till later!!

Okay so first of all, I could have saved both of us some panic if I actually READ your ask thread instead of just the heading that comes across my notification because you clearly ended your last part saying it was the last part! 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ My B!

I’m glad we’re going to have another ask thread to talk about where this arc goes from here because the more I think about it and the more I read other people’s comments about it, more I become incandescently furious about the whole thing, especially in regards to what Buck is supposed to be getting out of this arc now that there is a baby. So it’s probably better that we haven’t gotten that far yet because right now my response would just be 

ANYWAY, at least on this point I have somewhat of an answer I think! It seems like KR misinterpreted the line in her interview because what I and may others heard (and I believe saw on their captions as well) was “I guess it’s easier when you can just say “I’m going to be a father”.” Meaning, Buck’s trying to figure out how to say “I got this lady pregnant” without implying he did anything with her or is actually the father.

Here’s the thing though. That....kinda makes it worse? If he’s already moved past his concerns and is accepting the “donor not dad” thing then....why is the arc not closed? If he’s already gotten to the acceptance part, why didn’t we see any of that happening? (Again, I have...MANY THOUGHTS about that possibly being the closure of the arc but that’s not the point right now.) More importantly, since this clearly ISN’T the closure of the arc, WHEN is Buck going to start questioning things? Because up until now, he’s been super chill about the whole thing and quite frankly, now that there is a baby it is TOO FUCKING LATE to say “actually, I don’t think I can do this”. So where can this even go? I’m interested to hear your thoughts and if they’ll help make mine any more coherent but I’m just baffled at what they think they are doing here. This arc has had ZERO tension once he said yes. No on has pulled him aside to have A Talk and tell him they have concerns, which would allow him to get defensive and maybe give us a peek at what’s going on in his head (a mystery for quite some time now), the couple came to yell at him at work, but we saw he wasn’t trying to back out or even having concerns so it wasn’t anything, we haven’t seen him struggling or having second thoughts, just totally on board with the whole thing. So....what? The baby dies? Hard pass. The couple ghosts him? Buck gets left behind again. Shocker. He suddenly realizes he can’t have a baby and not be involved? Tough fucking luck, it’s happening and you can’t back out now. What is he gonna do, sue for custody/visitation rights? 

I know I said we were gonna talk about it later and we WILL, but just a thought to percolate on here, what is Buck supposed to learn from this storyline? Because the options are...limited.

a) It’s okay for people to use you for parts and you need to be more accepting of that and just be happy you were able to help them. Yeah, that’s the OPPOSITE of the less Buck as a character needs to learn.

b) That he’s just better off as “fun Uncle” and is totally cool knowing there’s a kid out there that’s his and he doesn’t need to be involved/is okay just getting cards and maybe sending a few gifts over the years/maybe kids aren’t for him? Again, NOTHING that fits with the character OR what the character needs to grow. His whole story has been about finding love and building a family and having people who will stay. Does he HAVE to have a biological child to make that happen? No, but HAVING a biological child and walking away because he’s “learned” he doesn’t need one to be happy doesn’t fit for him either. If he struggled and walked away BEFORE donating, they could go that route, but even still, for what we know of his character, I think having a child that’s his could be something important for him (one of the reasons I love a “Buck is asked if he wants to formally adopt Chris” arc in fics, because Buck really needs to know that he is tied to people), and brushing it off AFTER a baby is already on the way doesn’t really work.

c) That he isn’t ready to be a dad yet, and needs tp practice being on the sidelines of a child’s life? Not only does he have a niece for that, we have literally seen him “practicing” with Chris since season 2! 

Please, tell me where else this story could go? Because you know those two random side character completely divorced from the first responder world aren’t going to just be major fixtures in Buck’s life, hanging around. We didn’t even get to hear about Bobby’s sponsor who has been instrumental in his recovery and is besties with the whole Grant-Nash family, until two minutes before he was killed off. 

Anyway, gotta stop now and go watch some other show for a bit before I start eating drywall about this. Can’t wait to hear more of your thoughts my friend! This hiatus is going to be rough I think....

#my sweet nonnie friends #sleeping at last anon #911 #911 spoilers #evan buckley #y'all i TRIED to give this arc a chance but i am fucking OUT #i can't anymore #i just....*screams* #WHAT is buck supposed to learn?! #GOD I'M JUST SO FRUSTRATED WITH THIS!!! #and in the spirit of spreading blame where it belongs #here's a reminder (for me as well) that tim clearly didn't see an issue with this storyline just like he allowed the L thing #until the audience backlash was too great and then it was cut as much as possible #on the bright side since this happened right before hiatus the audience has lots of time to make their dissatisfaction known #and they HAVE been literally everywhere i look #so maybe they will take some fucking notes and change things up a bit #and we'll luck out with a false positive (seriously HOW would they even know this soon? especially since it can take a few tries to work?) #or with the news that they each picked a person to ask to donate and it's someone elses or maybe cameron had a few good swimmers after all #but with the information we have RIGHT NOW there isn't a satisfactory end to this #or a 'lesson' for buck to learn that makes sense for his character #brb gotta go scream into the woods for an hour