#then tim takes that to mean: the thing that is wrong is just fundamentally tim himself | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

cleromancy · 8 months

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Something has been bugging me recently. Do you ever notice how people (particularly Jason stans) go on about how Tim victim blame's Jason for his own death, but fail to mention how Alfred and Bruce are guilty of doing the same thing in the past? Why do these two (especially Alfred) get a pass?

LMAO LIKE... EVERYONES DONE IT. BRUCE ALFRED DICK BABS *SELINA* OF ALL PEOPLE ONE TIME... actually id have to double check that one idr exactly what she said about jason it might have just been that hes unhinged (<- also a thing everyones said at some point) but like. everyones freakin done it. or at least *implied* it.

tim is a special case for a reason though--and ill come back to bruce and alfred later--and its not just bc fandom wants a scapegoat to pin All The Victim-Blaming on. on a meta level tim was specifically created to be jasons opposite, and to ~rehabilitate the robin role and make robin palatable again to modern readers. (and to be clear this wasnt bc readers didn't like jason specifically--it was the idea of robin at all, and to a lesser extent just replacing the orig. jason just took on the mantle at a really unfortunate period in comics culture.) so the comparisons to jason are baked in right off the bat. and tim has to be "better". tim had to prove that a robin was necessary so that dc could keep having one, he had to justify it so that the blame didnt fall on bruce for getting a child killed (or yk even just out there fighting crime at all). theres also an element of class dynamics thats. i mean. jason was a homeless street kid and tims this fancy little distinctly upper middle class kid who replaces him, without derailing to get too deep into that the optics already arent fucking great.

but tims creation aside, just as far as how often it comes up... tim also takes the role of robin really seriously, and its everything to him, so he spends a lot of time thinking about it, what it means to wear the uniform & fulfil the role. so hes the one whos most frequently in the position to be thinking about jason, after bruce. so tim winds up being the one pushing the bulk of the bad/angry/impulsive robin narrative retcon dc wanted to push bc... its the most directly relevant to him. bruce doesnt have much narrative need to think about jason "failing" or not being good enough until under the red hood... except to be like "i dont have to worry about tim bc hes not like jason." lmao. and then you have tim who does not want to get killed, like jason did, so he spends time thinking about how to not end up like jason. which is a fundamental misunderstanding of how being a victim of murder works but i think understandable thing for a child replacement of another dead child to latch onto (particularly one as prone to arrogance & god-complex-itude as Our Timmy, lol). and both on a meta level and in-universe this is about shifting the blame off of bruce and onto the victim because tim needs to keep filling the role hes filling without it being bruces fault that jason died in the first place, bc reckoning with batman and child endangerment is not smth the comics had ever really planned on doing in a serious way.

but as for why singling tim out over bruce and alfred-- the kind of ppl who do this already generally think bruce sucks past the point of being interested in ~holding him accountable~ for absolutely anything... like "bruce sucks, everyone knows he sucks, enough said." i think the logic is generally like "if tims not a total shithead like bruce, then why is he doing shithead stuff like bruce does :/" and then pinning it all on tim as opposed to considering like "hey uhhh do you think maybe hearing stories about jason from bruce influences how tim thinks of jason over the years." if that makes sense

as for alfred. people do not want alfred to have any interiority or to ever have been mean or wrong bc then theyd have to actually think about the fact that bruce has a 24/7 domestic servant in his employ, which is just the. tip of the iceberg when you start thinking about alfred as a full character and not a convenient cardboard cutout to prop up whoever the narrative needs him to. also alfreds role in almost every batman narrative is strictly as support, almost no agency within the story to have a meaningful impact, and people generally respond to the character in kind.

finally i think tim mmmmight be the only character at least as of the reboot who ever talked *to jason* outloud style about certain things relating to jasons death... this answer is already getting too long so i dont want to get into depth about titans tower. but tt 2003 #29 is a great example of the comics pitting tim and jason against each other to make Jason look worse by comparison--for all that tim doesn't actually *say* anything victim blaming jason for his death, *and* for all that jason totally kicks tims ass in the fight and its not even close, on a meta level the story is 100% presenting jason as the bad robin, the robin who failed, Unlike Tim Drake, A *Good* Robin. (i accidentally reread the issue ... im going to make a post about it later probably. god i wish this fucking issue had been good)

but yeah i could probably go on and on even further but yeah, i think thats where people are coming from when they single timmy out. tim only exists at all bc of jason n would be fundamentally unrecognizable without having been crafted to be the anti-jason. and on top of that he has repeatedly been used by dc to make jason look worse (or rather jason was used to make tim look better), and a lot of my fellow jason stans understandably resent tim for it. i however am built different, and want them to kiss.

#dc #jaytim #i hope this is coherent im sleep deprived atm.#like moreso than usual #rambles #meta #jaytim text #jason text

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pluckyredhead · 5 months

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Sorry if you’ve already mentioned this/been asked this before, but which version of Dick quitting being Robin (or Bruce firing Dick) do you think works best for their characters? And is that different from your personal preferred version of how Dick ends his time in the Robin role?

Honestly, I am not super well up on the differences between the versions, so I don't have a strong opinion on the actual canon!

In terms of how I think it would be most interesting for it to play out (and this may be supported by canon, I'm not sure): I think something messy and full of miscommunication provides the most story potential. Like, Dick angrily quits after a fight with Bruce and/or he does his dramatic "I'm not Robin anymore" striptease from NTT, and Bruce, somewhat reasonably (and somewhat pettily) is like "Okay, I'll make Jason my new Robin," and Dick is like "ExCUSE me?"

I just think it's more fun (for me, not any of the characters) if Dick is ready to leave, longing to leave, shouting angrily about how he's leaving, and when Bruce is like "Okay, so leave already," Dick starts clutching his pearls. Maybe Dick says he quits but he means working with Bruce, not giving up Robin. Maybe he doesn't want to be Robin anymore, but that doesn't mean Robin is no longer his.

Dick isn't wrong to want to grow up. And Bruce, who is great with kids but fundamentally incapable of communicating with a teenager or young adult, is not necessarily wrong to assume that Dick's done with the thing he, you know, said he was done with. But they're also both handling it all really poorly and leaving poor Jason, who would very much like to be excluded from this narrative, awkwardly stuck in the middle.

(This also gives us a Dick who resents Jason but is self-aware enough to know that he shouldn't take his Bruce issues out on a literal child, which explains why he was canonically basically totally absent from Gotham during Jason's tenure as Robin. And smart, sensitive Jason picks up on the fact that Dick is avoiding him but not the complicated nuances behind it, and assumes that Dick just doesn't like him. And then Jason DIES, and Dick is drowning in guilt for not having been around, and then overcompensates by being the most over the top big brother imaginable to Tim, and lonely touch-starved self-parenting Tim absolutely BLOSSOMS under all of Dick's noogies and brotherly advice and whatever, and then Damian comes along and Dick is forced into a parental role and that's his baby now and TIm's like "But...I thought I was your baby..." and fully loses his mind. Like. There's just a whole domino effect of drama to play with here.)

#batfamily

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khionefr0st · 2 years

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im gonna put this here bc at this point this acc is just me screaming into the void and sometimes the void screams back

I’m gonna preface this with the fact that what anon did here is wrong even if what they say isn’t. Just stop barging into other people’s spaces, or going into their askbox/interacting with them when you know they disagree with you and trying to convince them of a different viewpoint in fandom.

Anyway, to the point - if the nature of two characters’ relationship hinges on technicalities like whether they call each other brother/sister in canon, or the batfam wiki, or their adoption papers by the same dude instead of the actual nature of their relationship, which for some of them, does not fit siblings at all, then you could hardly call them siblings, even by the standards of canon itself.

Like someone could just as easily make the argument that since Jason died, his adoption papers under Bruce are no longer valid. He isn’t any longer adopted by the same dude because those papers were never renewed – and they never had to be, because Jason was already pretty much an adult by the time he decided to show up in Gotham again. In the same comic where Bruce adopts Tim as his son, he admits that he didn’t adopt Dick as a son, but a ward. Does this make Jason and Dick any less of brothers? Does it make Dick any less of a son to Batman?

And some would respond to this with “well, technically-“ and it would be an argument about technicalities all over again, and it would still be the wrong damn basis for judging the nature of any character’s actual relationship.

Take Jason and Tim. They did not grow up together. On the contrary, Jason has done things to Tim that would drive any two people apart – and at that time, they barely had any connections to each other besides Jason’s resentment towards Tim, and Tim knowing Jason as Robin but never really knowing him. And then the reboot happened, and none of it was ever addressed properly. We didn’t get an arc where Jason apologized to Tim. Just a throwaway line in a N52 comic where Jason acknowledges that Tim is kind of similar to him, and he realized he wasn’t his enemy. They bond more in the N52 RHATO run, but none of it is especially in a familial way. At best, in canon, they’re amicable coworkers for the same dude, no matter how many times they call each other brother or how you argue that Bruce still has their adoption papers.

Same can be said about Tim and Damian – sure, they have the same dad. Does it make them siblings? Not by a long shot, because the nature of their relationship needs more development than mere technicalities for it to happen. And for the love of god please realize that having the same father figure does not make people tantamount to siblings.

Because that’s the problem with some of you – it’s that you force them into these boxes of typical nuclear family dynamics, like since this is the dad, all his kids are siblings, and because some of them share the same siblings, that means they all see each other as siblings! When the batfamily is a found family and fundamentally does not fit into conventional family relationships.

At best, the “batfamily is a traditionally nice, good, loving family” is a headcanon with surface-level canon content to support it (like WFA, or some moments in Nightwing). But looking at their actual, genuine interactions with each other in the past? The actual moments that relationships should be based on?

Some of them are hardly siblings, no matter how hard you try and force them to be.

Plus, Babs can definitely see Bruce as a father figure. She can definitely be a mother figure and/or a sister figure to Steph and Cass. This doesn’t mean she can’t date their sibling, Dick. Stephanie doesn’t have to be adopted by Bruce to see him as a father figure, and you can definitely think she does see a dad in Batman. Steph isn’t any less of a sister to Cass or Duke. Doesn’t mean she can’t be shipped with their brother, Tim. Doesn’t mean someone can’t reinterpret Steph and Cass’ relationship as a romantic one, either. Because, again, they do not fit conventional nuclear family dynamics.

The reason Tim doesn't have to accept Damian or Jason as his brother is because the fundamental difference that separates found families from nuclear families is that they are not born into the relationship - the relationship happens because they make it work. Their bonds are not forged by a link in blood - they are forged by choice, and with effort. Without those things there is no relationship, no matter how many parental figures or siblings you share.

So yes, Jason is still Bruce’s son, not because of any damn adoption papers or because he called his other kids bro/sis, but because Bruce loved him like a son and Jason loved him like a father, and they've both put in the time and commitment in the past to prove that to each other.

I’m not doing this to justify shipping, because the justification for that is do whatever the hell you want in fiction. I don’t care if you still see them as siblings and neither should anyone. Fiction is held to different standards than reality, and fanworks are held to different standards than canon. It is a waste of time to make it your business to form an opinion on what everyone personally ships and doesn’t ship in a spin-off of a universe that doesn’t exist.

I’m saying this because I need people to understand that happy, conventional batfamily is hardly canon. They are complex, and yes there is love and family to be found there, but their familial connections don't limit them. I think it’s a disservice to the narrative and the inherent versatility of their relationships to pretend like the batfamily is founded on traditional family dynamics. And yeah, also because “Actually, in canon-” has been used again and again to attack people who choose to make them have romantic connections instead of familial ones (including DickBabs and TimSteph shippers somehow), and half the time, like in the post above, they’re not even right because they ignore nuance and actual canon history for the sake of trivial and arbitrary criteria.

And even if it was canon, it’s not something you can weaponize against people who choose to see their relationships in a different way from you. Nothing is stopping anyone from rewriting canon either and choosing to say “Well in my headcanons and works they’re not related.” Canon or not, nobody has the authority to barge into that space and yell “Actually they’re siblings!” (And nobody has the authority either to barge into someone else’s askbox and say “No they aren’t!”) I promise you, it does not matter. If SPN, GoT and Greek Mythology didn't normalize incest some batfam slashfic between two members of a found family certainly isn't going to do it. Stay in spaces you’re comfortable with and do away with those you aren’t.

Last P.S. if you really want to read healthy and good canon family dynamics, read Flashfam.

#batfam #batcest #jaytim #jaydick #fandom discourse #KhioRants #that will be the tag from now on when I do this kind of thing #tagged for your blocking pleasure #long post

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olivia-anderson-fanfic · 9 months

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Into the Unknown

If you're happy and you know it

(The sequel story that I will never do)

~~~~~

After a lot of debating over the ethics of leaving baby!Damian as a baby vs aging him up (and a rogue suggestion that they yank an alternate-universe Damian over right before he dies so they can all have their way), they decide to let him grow up naturally. In the end, baby!Damian is still a child and in the process of aging him up magically Damian would reexperience all of his traumas in basically a split second, which is just a lot of mental strain to put someone through. Beyond that, even after aging him up they still wouldn’t get the original Damian back, as the base person is so fundamentally different.

So, Damian basically gets to have a happy childhood with his parents and new extended family! Yay him!

I mean, sure, Damian has never truly known a world outside of the one he had been in, and his aunt and uncles are acting weird around him for reasons he can’t really comprehend, and his dreams are getting increasingly concerning and confusing, and his parents seem more quiet than usual even though they’re around more to hang out with him…

Did he do something wrong?

Meanwhile, Adrien comes from France to check on her and also chuck the Miraculous Box back at her in revenge. Marinette explains that she no longer wishes to do superheroing, but would be happy to help support him from the sidelines. Adrien is surprised, because she had been so interested like a year ago, but before he can be like “oh, good for you”, Gotham experiences its Giant Rogue Attack Of The Week and Adrien looks at the bats like Damn bitch you live like this? Gotham vigilante crew has now been adopted by a French demigod, congrats to them.

But, since Adrien is staying in Gotham, he and Marinette have to navigate this new dynamic between themselves where Adrien actually takes charge while Marinette is more of a healer character, staying out of sight during battles and only really cropping up at the end of fights to help victims and make sure her favorite Kitty doesn’t die. She has the condition that she will not enter a fight at all, as she refuses to leave Damian without a parent, and she will keep to it. So, Adrien is a little bit more careful, not wanting to risk it.

In that same vein, this old universe is still a cesspool of villains that didn’t exist in the original one. Joker, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze. And, as a Wayne, and a young one at that, Damian keeps getting targeted.

Until villains start dropping off the map. Under mysterious circumstances. And none of the bats can bring themselves to look into it. Because it’s much harder to brush off all of the deaths they have been indirectly causing by letting Rogues live when you know the person who has almost died personally. Even more so when that person that almost died is your little brother that closely resembles the little brother that you just found out ‘died’. When the person that almost died is the little brother that named that stuffed turtle you bought him Turtle because he’s too young to be good at naming things (and will never get better, because they had seen what he had named Alfred the Cat, and maybe the reminder just makes it more difficult).

In the meantime, Tim goes back to work as CEO and starts training to be a vigilante again. People at his job who hardly respected him before because of his age and the nepotism surrounding his hiring now don’t respect him at all after his sudden 6-month break. But that's just his day job, his cover. He's rich. He could quit at any time with very little repercussions.

When it comes to his vigilantism, if he works hard, he could get back into it in a few months, but he keeps watching his family members walk back home with bruises and cuts and more and he had forgotten just how bad it had gotten. Or, maybe he hadn’t forgotten, maybe he had just never realized, and his time as a civilian has altered his perspective.

But he has always been one to commit, and he can’t bring himself to sit by idly without helping, and it isn’t quite so dangerous when most of the major players have been forcibly removed from the equation, so he does it.

Until he comes back, bleeding all over the floor, yelling for Marinette, and Damian sees him. The kid stares at him with horrified, wide eyes. And it would be one thing if Damian didn’t understand, if it was something he would later realize was a close call, but Damian rushes forward to press his hands against the wound.

He realizes he can’t bring himself to do this to the kid.

But he can’t sit idly by while his family risks their lives, either.

So, he becomes a mechanic in this world, too.

And, with both Tim and Marinette off the streets, and Damian more or less safe, and a little bit of time where they get used to their 'new' lives…

Tim proposes. Properly.

They have a wedding. Damian is the little ring bearer. Adrien is a bridesmaid. After all of this time, after all that struggling, they finally get their happy ending.

#into the unknown #timari #timinette #maribat #shutterbug #timmari #tim drake #marinette dupain cheng #ladybug #red robin #i cannot stress enough how much i will not be doing this btw #dont ask i will ignore u #i want to move on pls let me

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lucihens · 2 months

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this a very unnecessarily philosophical, potentially verbose, written by a barely 20 odd year old with the mental age of a 10 year old whose innate logic comes directly from the autism gremlin in her mind take on tim bradford. you have been warned.

it's interesting that tim thinks he's been lying to himself and is mad at himself for seemingly actually being what he thinks he fundamentally isn't, rather than what he thinks or thought he was. but he doesn't understand that he can't be fundamentally anything in respect to action and nature. he can't define who he is as a whole as one clear cut, unchanging thing that he lives by for the rest of his life. because that's the complete opposite of what human nature is in my opinion. his personality may be consistent. but his nature never will be. because it changes. ALL THE TIME. pretty much everyday your processes change even a little bit with new information you gain. who you are now is not who you were last week. and while you may have a strict and specfic moral law in which determines the way you act in the long run, the decisions you make and the way you act (short term) depend on the moment. so tim is saying that what he did in the moment back in the army, and what he did in the moment dealing with ray, and what he did in the moment lying to IA, was him going against his code and who he thought he was, and that must therefore mean that who he has been consistently in the past was actually all a lie, was him pretending to be something he wasn't just because he did somethings 'out of character'. i don't think he can understand that being as strict and by the book as he is is not actually a sustainable human trait. because many instances call for many different reactions. but him setting such rigid guidelines he must follow so he can actually consider himself a good man, has set him up to fail again and again in respect to his feelings of self worth. setting such high standards for himself that he'll never be able to live up to has made it so easy for his self-belief to falter, teeter, and completely fall off the edge. confusing his personality with his nature has made it practically impossible to realise that his actions, if flawed, reckless and bringing negative consequences, don't make him fundamentally flawed. fundamentally wrong and screwed up. he doesn't realise that actions merely add to the portfolio of a person's life, good or bad, and despite the contents of his biography, he is still worthy of love. because he is not fundamentally flawed, or a fraud, but a man who regularly shows empathy, and loves anyway, despite being told (by others, but mainly himself) he won't experience the same in return.

#i have always been bewildered by tim and the way he thinks since he's very black and white #but doesn't realise that all the colours of the rainbow are inside of him #i have an egotistical logic man in my brain who always thinks he's right #so if this is illogical to you blame him #but this is my inexperienced philosophy on the difference between fundamental personality vs enviroment influenced nature #i like to speak the things that flow out of my brain #so feel free to disagree #i am not always correct #but i love tim and i need him to realise he's a little dumb and unwilling to realise the true attributes of what makes a human #and that he's not wrong for doing what humans do #which is make mistakes and learn from them #and he's still allowed to be loved #because humans love each other despite what they do because it's fundamental to humans to be like this #you are not special baby #it's okay #you'll be fine #just like i am fundamentally tautologous #yet you like my posts anyway #i'm very sorry #especially if you loathe my lack of capital letter usage #goodnight #the rookie #chenford #tim bradford

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michellethestan · 2 years

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Our Flag Means Jesus Christ Superstar

At C2E2 on Sunday, Con O'Neill shared that he and Taika both thought of Jesus Christ Superstar and the famously-charged relationship between Jesus and Judas in that show when thinking about the relationship between Ed and Izzy in Our Flag Means Death. (He also said they scream-sang to the soundtrack together on their first day in the makeup trailer and I would give my non-existent left nut for any footage of this event.)

Here's the video:

This set my brain on fire because I am an extreme and obnoxious lifelong Jesus Christ Superstar fan and one of the first goofy things I did in OFMD fandom was casting a JCS AU. As my brain burned, I started thinking about all of the parallels between JCS and OFMD.

So, presenting Way Too Much Thought about Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice's Rock Opera about the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and David Jenkins' There's No Heterosexual Explanation for this Story of Blackbeard and Stede Bonnet! I am not at all religious, so if you're looking for any takes on whether or not Edward Teach is actually God, you've come to the wrong place. I am merely a woman with an English degree and too much time on my hands.

Since we all know the plot points of OFMD, I am going to do this by JCS song. If you're unfamiliar with JCS, the wiki is below. Basically, though, it is a rock opera about the days leading up to Jesus' crucifixion, released as a concept album in 1970. Eventually it was staged, there are two movies (ignore the awful 2000 version), John Legend was Jesus on the live TV version, it tours all over, and it is Incredibly Campy. The relationship between Jesus and Judas is famously charged, and different productions choose to take that to different levels.

I'm going to use the album songs (with one notable exception) and visuals from the 1973 movie.

At its core, I see JCS as being about the conflict between Judas and Mary Magdalene and their versions of an ideal Jesus. Sound familiar? It's telling Jesus' story, but it does so via the interpersonal and internal conflicts these two people had during the last days of his life.

Ed is Jesus - For years, he has been leading a movement. He has reached a moment where the masses are seeing him as a mythical figure, King of the Jews/Blackbeard, but he's not sure that is what he wants.

Izzy is Judas - Our guy's right hand man. He has been there since the start and sees himself as a protector as well as someone with an outside perspective on the hero. Izzy wants Ed to continue being the myth of Blackbeard because it is the way they will survive. Judas, conversely, wants Jesus to take it down a notch because he is becoming too much of a myth and that will get him killed.

Stede is Mary Magdalene - (I'm not a prostitute, mate!) The new person to the group, offering our hero a way forward that does not have the weight of the world on his shoulders. Stede offers Ed retirement and a soft life. Mary offers Jesus a soft and comfortable life as well, but it is one where he does take up the mantle as the Son of God.

(A Note before we get going. Both Our Flag Means Death and the 1973 Jesus Christ Superstar film star BIPOC actors: Taika Waititi as Blackbeard, Ben Vereen as Judas, and Yvonne Elliman as Mary Magdalene. This is fundamentally part of the stories the productions tell. People far more qualified than I have written about Edward Teach as a Maori man, the diverse OFMD cast, and about the diverse casting traditions in Jesus Christ Superstar. There is a deep dive to be written about the race of these six principle actors (and their supporting casts) and how that impacts these stories when JCS is read as an influence on OFMD. Without the qualifications to take that on, I am sticking essentially to song lyrics and script. I realize this is a huge gap in this analysis, and I would love for someone to help me fill it!)

We're skipping the Overture because it's just an overture and it is very good but still. You can listen to it if you want.

Heaven on their Minds

The show opens with Judas. Jesus, the apostles, Mary, and co. are together outside of Jerusalem, and Judas is concerned about the level of fame they are reaching and the danger Jesus is in from authorities.

Listen Jesus I don't like what I see.

All I ask is that you listen to me.

And remember, I've been your right hand man all along.

You have set them all on fire.

They think they've found the new Messiah.

And they'll hurt you when they find they're wrong.

Of course, the big difference here is that Judas wants Jesus to tone it down so he doesn't get hurt, whereas Izzy is trying to keep Ed as Blackbeard going so he doesn't get hurt.

What's the Buzz/Strange Thing Mystifying

The Apostles want to know what's happening. When are we leaving, who are we fighting, etc. While they bother Jesus, Mary is trying to comfort him.

Mary that is good,

While you prattle through your supper,

Where and when and who and how.

She alone has tried to give me

What I need right here and now.

Here we introduce the foil to Izzy/Judas. Almost immediately, with his finery and his lunacy, Stede offers Ed a different way of life.

You're a fucking lunatic and I like it.

We also get the first conflict between Mary and Judas, when Judas attacks Jesus for allowing Mary to comfort him.

It seems to me a strange thing, mystifying

That a man like you can waste his time on women of her kind.

Yes, I can understand that she amuses,

But to let her kiss you, stroke your hair, that's hardly in your line.

It's not that I object to her profession,

But she doesn't fit in well with what you teach and say.

It doesn't help us if you're inconsistent.

They only need a small excuse to put us all away.

Izzy, of course, immediately wants Stede out of the picture. He wants Stede out of the picture so badly he tries to sabotage them from the start. He doesn't respect Stede as a man or as a pirate, and is worried about what associating with Stede will do to Blackbeard's reputation.

Jesus stands up for Mary's presence, just like Ed decides they're staying on Stede's ship for now.

Who are you to criticize her?

Who are you to despise her?

Leave her, leave her, let her be now.

Leave her, leave her, she's with me now.

If your slate is clean, then you can throw stones.

If your slate is not, then leave her alone.

"Sorry not sorry." - Jesus/Ed.

Everything's Alright

Mary's first big number! She is soothing a stressed Jesus, offering him myrrh ointment (fine things!) and the idea that he deserves to be taken care of.

Sleep and I shall soothe you, calm you, and anoint you.

Myrrh for your hot forehead, oh.

Then you'll feel

Everything's alright, yes, everything's fine.

And it's cool, and the ointment's sweet

For the fire in your head and feet.

Close your eyes, close your eyes

And relax, think of nothing tonight.

Of course, Judas doesn't want this version of Jesus. He wants to get back to their roots, sees the use of the ointment on Jesus as a waste, and doesn't like a version of Jesus that is the pampered son of God.

Woman your fine ointment, brand new and expensive

Should have been saved for the poor.

Why has it been wasted? We could have raised maybe

Three hundred silver pieces or more.

People who are hungry, people who are starving

They matter more than your feet and hair!

We see this most/first in the clothes-swap scene, where Izzy is just so disgusted by the idea of Ed being anything other than Blackbeard that he literally leaves. Jesus stands up for Mary against Judas and says she's staying and Judas has to deal with it. Ed stands up for Stede and says they're staying on the Revenge and Izzy just has to deal with it.

The clothes swap scene is not the only sequence where Stede comforts Ed, of course. Just as Mary takes it upon herself to comfort Jesus at pretty much every opportunity, Stede becomes that comfort for Ed. The panic attack after the Fuckery is Stede reassuring Ed that the weight of being Blackbeard does not have to be on his shoulders. He can relax and sleep well, because Stede sees the real him. He's willing to forget a whole entire murder plot for Ed.

And more! We have two concrete "fine things" being used for pleasure here - myrrh ointment and marmalade. Both Judas and Izzy see waste and carelessness where Mary and Stede see the value in indulgence. And both Judas and Izzy want the fine things gone for more practical things. Judas wants to sell the ointment to give the money to the poor, what he argues is Jesus' whole original message. The marmalade, of course, is taking the place of literal gunpowder that pirates need to, you know, survive.

I will also just point out that "marmalade" and "myrrh ointment" sound... not really very similar but at least both start with M.

This Jesus Must Die

The authorities in Jerusalem want this rabble-rouser Jesus out of the picture. They're very moody and discussing what to do with him, deciding that he needs to die to send a message. We don't really see this happening about Blackbeard until the very end of the show, but we can assume based on the whole Being A Notorious Pirate Thing that the English authorities would do anything to take him down.

The important thing here is that Ed and Jesus are both wanted men. Izzy/Judas and Stede/Mary are offering conflicting ways to stay alive. Both think they have the solution and are trying to woo their guys to their sides.

Hosanna and Simon Zealotes/Poor Jerusalem

First of all, these are bops. Just getting that out of the way. Hosanna is Jesus entering Jerusalem and Simon Zealotes/Poor Jerusalem is the masses worshipping him, basically. Our OFMD parallel is Blackbeard with his Nine Guns - The myth of the hero far outstrips the man at this point. But what is he going to do about it?

Jesus warns the worshippers that things are about to get bad. Blackbeard starts thinking maybe he'll steal Stede's identity and sail off into the sunset.

If you knew all that I knew, my poor Jerusalem,

You'd see the truth, but you close your eyes.

But you close your eyes.

While you live, your troubles are many, poor Jerusalem.

To conquer death, you only have to die.

You only have to die.

Hmmm what's that, Jesus? We have to die to get out of this? You don't say.

Pilate's Dream

Pilate has a premonition that he's about to go down in history as The Bad Guy who Killed Jesus. (Yup.)

Then I saw thousands of millions

Crying for this man.

And then I heard them mentioning my name,

And leaving me the blame.

Badminton declares he's going to get vengeance on some Cat Bandits.

On my honor, I’ll ride these “Cat Bandits” straight into hell.

There are people hunting down our hero, in other words.

The Temple

In this scene, Jesus finds that a temple is being used for basically everything other than worship and he flips his lid and clears all of the sinners out. It is Very Dramatic.

What happens next is what parallels to OFMD, though. After the heathens are cleared from the temple, Jesus is surrounded by people with leprosy begging him to heal them. It's eerie and A Lot.

See my eyes, I can hardly see.

See me stand, I can hardly walk.

I believe you can make me whole.

See my tongue, I can hardly talk.

See my skin, I'm a mass of blood.

See my legs, I can hardly stand.

I believe you can make me well.

See my purse, I'm a poor, poor man.

Will you touch, will you mend me Christ?

Won't you touch, will you heal me Christ?

Will you kiss, you can cure me Christ?

Won't you kiss, won't you pay me Christ?

Jesus tries his best to heal them, but ultimately panics.

There's too many of you...Don't push me.

There's too little of me...Don't crowd me.

Heal yourselves!

What does this have to do with Ed? I hope you're asking that since you've read this far. The beggars are... Calico Jack! And not because he is a walking embodiment of disease. This sequence represents Jesus making his choice - is he going to be Judas' version of Jesus or Mary's? Is he taking on the mantle of Son of God or is he going relax it a bit? Calico Jack is a similar turning point for Ed. Is he going to be the old Blackbeard, or is he going to stick with Stede? Jesus hasn't really made his choice here - he tries to fix the temple and heal everyone but he is still overwhelmed. Of course, we know what Ed chose.

Everything's Alright (Reprise)

A bop. A reminder that Stede and Mary are going to take care of their men. Thanks, Mary. Thanks, Stede.

I Don't Know How to Love Him

Just imagine Stede singing this about Ed. That's it, that's the comparison.

I don't know how to love him.

What to do, how to move him.

I've been changed, yes really changed.

In these past few days, when I've seen myself,

I seem like someone else.

I don't know how to take this.

I don't see why he moves me.

...

Yet, if he said he loved me,

I'd be lost. I'd be frightened.

I couldn't cope, just couldn't cope.

I'd turn my head. I'd back away.

I wouldn't want to know.

He scares me so.

I want him so.

I love him so.

To elaborate a little, what's key here is Mary realizing that she is also being changed by loving Jesus and that they are on a path together now. She realizes that she is in awe of the myth of Jesus but in love with the man.

Damned for All Time/Blood Money

Judas turning in Jesus to the authorities. He's panicking. The only way to save Jesus is to give him up and hope that he is able to survive. He has even deluded himself into thinking that Jesus will actually be glad that he's made this decision.

Now if I help you, it matters that you see

These sordid kinda things are coming hard to me.

It's taken me some time to work out what to do.

I weighed the whole thing out before I came to you.

I have no thought at all about my own reward.

I really didn't come here of my own accord.

Just don't say I'm ... damned for all time.

I came because I had to; I'm the one who saw.

Jesus can't control it like he did before.

And furthermore I know that Jesus thinks so too.

Jesus wouldn't mind that I was here with you.

I have no thought at all about my own reward.

I really didn't come here of my own accord.

Just don't say I'm ... damned for all time.

Annas, you're a friend, a worldly man and wise.

Caiaphas, my friend, I know you sympathize.

Why are we the prophets? Why are we the ones

Who see the sad solution - know what must be done?

I have no thought at all about my own reward.

I really didn't come here of my own accord.

Just don't say I'm damned for all time.

Sound like someone we know?

The Last Supper

Oh here we go, things are heating up. Of course, The Last Supper is The Last Supper. The apostles have a lovely song about how they want to write everything down so people will talk about them when they die. That's a normal way to talk about your friend, right?

Fanfiction and the start of the Eucharist aside, The Last Supper is when Jesus announces to the team that he knows what they've been up to. He says that soon Peter will deny him and that he knows Judas has betrayed him.

Of course, when Izzy goes off to sell Ed out, Ed doesn't know it's happening because he is not a prophet. But I made this anyway because it works.

JESUS: Peter will deny me in just a few hours.

Three times will deny me,

And that's not all I see.

One of you here dining,

One of my twelve chosen

Will leave to betray me.

JUDAS: Cut out the dramatics!

You know very well who.

JUDAS: To think I admired you.

Well now I despise you.

This song also reinforces Judas' conviction that Jesus wants him to do this. Judas believes he is acting in both of their best interests and that turning Jesus in will stop the train and everything will be fine. Izzy truly believes that he is only selling out Stede. Stede has done something to his boss' brain, and once he's out of the picture Ed will go back to normal.

Gethsemane (I Only Want to Say)

Jesus leaves his sleeping apostles and goes off to, basically, freak out and yell at his dad who is God.

I only want to say,

If there is a way,

Take this cup away from me

For I don't want to taste its poison.

Feel it burn me,

I have changed.

I'm not as sure, as when we started.

After walking around yelling at Dad a bit, he gets it out of his system and gets back on track. This is where he chooses to be a martyr.

By accepting his martyrdom, he might be accepting Judas' betrayal on the surface, but he's actually accepting Mary's version of himself. The authorities aren't going to slap him on the wrist and let him go. They are going to kill him, as we all know. That is what Mary was actually pulling for, even though she didn't realize it at the time.

This is akin to when Ed calls for the Act of Grace. In that moment, Izzy's plan falls apart - calling the British isn't going to save Blackbeard, it's going to destroy him. And this is what Stede was actually pulling for, even though he didn't realize it at the time.

Alright, I'll die!

Just watch me die!

See how I die!

...

God, thy will is hard,

But you hold every card.

I will drink your cup of poison.

Nail me to your cross and break me,

Bleed me, beat me,

Kill me.

Take me, now!

Before I change my mind.

The Arrest

Judas, must you betray me with a kiss?

Judas famously kisses Jesus to identify him to the Roman soldiers. If you are Going For It in your production of Jesus Christ Superstar, this can be very lustful. This is a man who loves his hero giving him up to the people that have been chasing him, probably realizing as he does it that things are about to go Very Wrong but having no way to stop it.

Peter's Denial

People who saw Jesus being led away see Peter and Mary, and accuse Peter of being an accomplice of that rabble-rouser Jesus. He denies knowing him three times.

Welp.

Pilate and Christ

Oh, Pilate, if only you remembered your little premonition. This is basically a song just to explain why Pilate doesn't have jurisdiction over Jesus and is sending him to...

King Herod's Song (Try it and See)

This song is, in a word, chaotic. King Herod tells Jesus he'll spare his life if Jesus admits to calling himself King of the Jews. It's very campy. It's amazing.

Herod demands Jesus perform miracles, Jesus won't do it, and Herod sends him back to Pilate to deal with because he decides Jesus is a fraud. This one really doesn't match up in OFMD. Oh well!

Could We Start Again Please

Meanwhile, in the movie and on the stage, Peter and Mary lead a song freaking out about what's happening. They've realized this whole thing went too far and Jesus is about to be killed, and are asking to start over.

This is Stede realizing slowly at the Privateering Academy that he has ruined Blackbeard. This comes out of order in the shows, but I'm going by JCS order. So I'm also doing the gifs in JCS order instead of OFMD order.

I've been living to see you

Dying to see you but it shouldn't be like this

This was unexpected, what do I do now?

Oh, could we start again, please?

Could we start again, please?

I've been very hopeful so far

Now for the first time I think we're going wrong

Hurry up and tell me, this is all a dream

Or could we start again, please?

Could we start again, please?

I think you've made your point now

You've even gone a bit too far to get your message home

Before it gets too frightening, we ought to call a halt

So could we start again please?

Could we start again please?

Judas' Death

Of course, Izzy doesn't die, and Judas does. Dramatically, after first running back to the authorities and trying to undo what he did.

I don't believe he knows I acted for our good

I'd save him all this suffering if I could!

Don't believe ... our good ... save him ... if I could

Izzy may not die, but he certainly has a moment where he realizes Ed is giving everything up and his plan has failed. Izzy is forced to watch Ed sign away ten human years to the British, and it is because of what Izzy did.

Christ! I know you can't hear me

But I only did what you wanted me to

Christ! I'd sell out the nation

For I have been saddled with the murder of you

Even more tragically, Judas reprises Mary's "I Don't Know How to Love Him." Imagine Izzy singing this in a deleted scene where he watches Ed and Stede be rowed away from the Revenge.

I don't know how to love him

I don't know why he moves me

He's a man - he's just a man

He's not a king - he's just the same

As anyone I know

He scares me so

When he's cold and dead, will he let me be?

Does he love me too? Does he care for me?

Ow. Sorry Iz.

Trial Before Pilate

It's a trial. Before Pilate. Some other guys go on trial, maybe you've heard of them.

Jesus stoically accepts his punishments, first the 39 lashes and then the crucifixion. Ed is also stoic when he thinks he's the only one in trouble, and of course after Stede is in danger he's not so stoic. Mary isn't crucified, so that doesn't really line up, but it's still two trials. Not much else to say here, really.

Superstar

The Big Number!

This is our climax, Judas in heaven appearing to Jesus and asking him, was it worth it? Shouldn't you have listened to me and ditched that Mary lady? (And why did you decide to come down to earth when you did instead of in 1971 when we have mass media? And also, is Buddha all he's cracked up to be? (It was the 70s, what do you want.))

Episode 10, of course, has the confrontation between Izzy and Ed. Is it worth it, being Stede's version of you? Can you survive like this? Where is the real Blackbeard?

And, who is Blackbeard, anyway?

Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ,

Who are you? What have you sacrificed?

Jesus Christ Superstar,

Do you think you're what they say you are?

The Crucifixion

Also known as:

Obviously, Ed doesn't die, and Jesus, you know, famously does.

But Ed does bury the soft part of himself, Stede's part, in an effort to continue on as Blackbeard.

And, let's not forget, Jesus does also famously un-die.

Let's hope that bodes well for Ed in Season 2.

Final Thoughts

As I got to the end, I started thinking about the "winners" and "losers" in the Judas/Mary and Izzy/Stede conflicts, such as anyone can really be declared a winner when the end result is the willing self-destruction of the person they love.

Jesus is silent before Pilate and Herod, knowing that God's plan is playing out as was intended. Could he have changed it, had he listened to Judas? Could he have prevented Judas' fate had he filled his closest confidante in? But if he had done that, would Judas still have played the role he had to play? (I'm not a religious scholar so I don't have the slightest idea. I'm just a woman with an English degree and too much time to think about OFMD and Jesus Christ Superstar.) In turning away from Judas' warnings and accepting Mary's version of himself - the one that is allowed comfort and rest and to be "just a man" albeit briefly - Jesus accepts that he'll die. Then, after everything and not portrayed in this show, he comes back to life as Mary's version. Judas goes down in history as, well, Judas. (Not even going into what's happened to Mary's reputation because do I look like Dan Brown to you? She doesn't win, either, is all I'm saying.)

Then we have Ed, who quite literally sheds Izzy's version. He signs his pirate life away for ten human years in order to be allowed comfort, rest, and to be "Just Ed." Shaves his beard, kisses his man, makes a plan to run away. That's the "death" he accepted. It's even the "death" he tries to continue when he returns to the Revenge, only to be shaken back to "life" as Blackbeard by Izzy. Stede won briefly, but then Izzy gets a second shot. And we end with Ed reembodying the myth. I don't subscribe to the framing that Ed, Blackbeard, and The Kraken are different people - they're all facets of Edward Teach. Will his ultimate "resurrection" be an acceptance that the real Edward is some mix of all of these versions? With neither Stede nor Izzy the "winner" of that battle?

That's it!! "It."

If you read this far:

Thank you I love you

I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did

Find me on twitter @ michellethestan

Let me know your thoughts about how this 1970s rock opera about Jesus is actually about gay pirates

If you have footage of Con and Taika singing Jesus Christ Superstar in a makeup trailer you have to give it to me as payment for this

#ofmd #ofmd meta #ofmd and jesus christ superstar #our flag means death #jesus christ superstar #con oneill done something to my brain #if anyone has footage of con and taika singing jesus christ superstar get at me #seriously #ofmd meets jcs #extremely long post #blackbeard #stede bonnet #ed teach #gentlebeard #izzy hands #con oneill #c2e2 #taika waititi

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doublel27 · 1 year

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Anon is right tho. I mean it's lovely how much carlos loves TK and how he's not afraid to show it but we need to see the same effort from tk too. Now, don't get me wrong I'm not trying to hate on TK or tarlos I know they love each other equally but unfortunately they're not showing that. Like I was really hoping for tk to call carlos his soulmate but I guess we can't have everything.

Sorry for the rant but this episode is kind of let down for me and I'm sad because I was so excited for this episode and now it's 5am and I can't sleep 😅

Firstly, I want to start by saying that it sucks to be disappointed by something you were looking forward to. Especially something like a television show that is usually a comfort and is very much controlled by real people.

Second, dear nonny, I would like to say as much as I enjoyed this episode my feelings are not without some critique. I have sucked my spouse into Lone Star with me and our major critique is one that has been a problem with this show for a long time.

Tim Minear and the writers room over-write for their episodes and then film all of they and sometimes in editing/post production they’re so intent on fitting everything in that things feel very surface or not fully fleshed out. I felt that way about all of tonight’s storylines. There was more to mine, but it all got left very shallow.

That being said, I do fundamentally disagree about TK not showing love back to Carlos in this episode.

First, I’m going to start with context. TK was just told by his father that he has a 1 in 4 chance of having a genetic neurodegenative disease that could take him (if they have the gene) anytime in the next 5-20 years.

And Huntington’s is no joke. It’s like taking Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and ALS and sticking them in a blender with steroids. It’s devastating and relentless and there’s a reason Robert is asking Owen to help him live out the end of his life instead of his wife and children. And TK is a medical professional who understands exactly what the progress might be.

And so he doesn’t lie and he doesn’t hide it, but he stays up until Carlos is off shift to have the conversation because TK loves Carlos too much to want to burden him with the reality of this disease.

But this is one of the first times all season that TK has been the one who needed comforting. So I’m not surprised that Carlos is the one that said the soulmates line. Because TK needs reassurance that this isn’t a line too far for Carlos.

TK has been doing that for Carlos all season.

TK looked Carlos straight in the face when Carlos explained the Iris situation and just said “alright, what do we have to do.” Many members of the fandom wanted him to be mad or petty or jealous or have feelings and while there were feelings, TK put Carlos first and helped to take care of the barriers in their way.

When Carlos was kidnapped and didn’t come home, TK was the one who tirelessly advocated that something was wrong. He figured out the pharmacy connection and then he literally saved Carlos’s life and had very romantic conversation as they loaded into the ambulance.

TK then, a man who has been having conversations about having kids since season one, faced with the fact that Carlos didn’t want kids gave up his dream and plans for fatherhood because Carlos is more important. Like…he cooked fucking dinner (how many phone calls with Tommy and Paul were there to get that together) and told Carlos it didn’t matter if Carlos was ever ready for kids because Carlos is all the family he needs. That’s a level of conflict that often leads to broken engagements and divorce.

This is all THIS season. Seasons two and three TK gave every romantic speech this couple had. Carlos is just getting here with words this season. And it’s beautiful growth for both of them.

#911 lone star #tk strand #carlos reyes #tarlos #911 lone star spoilers #doublel27 talks #anon reply #anon ask #i’m sorry but i’m also not #tk strand loves carlos reyes with his whole being #enough to sacrifice his dreams for carlos #like idk what you’re watching #be disappointed sure #but it’s just not even textually based

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dairy-farmer · 2 years

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Everyone thinks that Tim is this angel, sweet golden child who does no wrong. He doesn't break rules, doesn't lie, never had a thought about killing (minus once) and Bruce favors him for it.

Meanwhile Tim is slightly laughing at them because he's killed more, he's the only one who's lied and got away with it, he breaks more rules but he's never caught. He's wearing a mask and nobody can tell

...until Damian confronts him, telling him he knows and...he wants to do the same thing

i love the concept because tim, in so many universes when he loses too many people and too many bad things happen to him- he goes off the deep end. he's so desperate to not be that but the reality is that he's more likely to go "bad" than to stay good. so a tim who's "bad" from the beginning. who lies his way through the family from the beginning, who plays the part of the perfect child that bruce desperately wants because it's what he needs to feel like he's succeeded.

tim isn't like other rogues. like slade who needs people to know that 'deathstroke the terminator' did this. not like selina who despite stealing and having to remain low key to commit her crimes also can't help but have an MO or leave behind a calling card because she can't resist the thrill of being pursued or chased. he doesn't do it for the thrill like zsaz or for some bullshit commentary on society and made-up arch-enemy bullshit like joker.

tim isn't a rogue and he doesn't consider himself one neither does he think he's an antihero who think hero society is fundamentally fucked up. he's just doing his job and making sure all loose ends are tied up. he doesn't go for big scores like mob bosses or people of interest for cases they can't gather evidence for. no.

he goes for people who supply false testimony on stands, who lie about having seen some guy at a bar when he was really chopping someone up at a warehouse. the ones who throw off tim's shoo-in cases. rapists, criminals that slipped through and played jump rope with the law? that's red hood's domain. that's his score.

he goes for the bears and mountain lions moving into residential areas and trying to eat the babies people left playing in teh front yard.

tim goes for the smaller...less noticed pests. the rats, the cockroaches. the college professor making people uncomfortable during office hours. that creepshow cop that pats people down under their clothing. the highschooler that drove three kids to nearly kill themselves because they just wouldn't leave them alone.

they're not criminals. they're not mass murderers. they haven't and likely won't grow to be threats like black mask or bane- but no one was sad to see them disappear.

no one reported them missing, no one went looking for them. one day they were there and the next day they weren't. and they'd made people around them so miserable that the only feeling people felt when they were gone was relief.

that's the first thing tim teaches damian. if even one person is sad or disappointed they're gone then you've already messed up because all it takes is one person to set off a chain of events that will have batman after you. tim is careful. he doesn't do it for fun, there's no "art" in killing like shiva or talia would try to convince you off. if you do that then you want to get good at it, you want to practice and practice means sloppiness. if you treat it like a vice it could get addicting, and you start messing up to get your next fill.

so it's just work. that's what you have to think of it as tim tells damian. work that needs to get done like getting your hair cut or doing your taxes. he lies through his teeth about it because it's ugly and bruce doesn't like ugly things. he likes pretty and clean and obedient. and for his sake, tim needs to be that. and all the other stuff needs to be hidden away.

so he needs to teach damian how to keep the mask in place because that's the most important part. never being someone anyone would suspect about being capable of such things if those natural deaths were to ever arouse suspicion among people.

which they haven't. anyone smart enough to notice something didn't care enough to do anything about it. tim made sure of that.

#anonymous #asks #answered asks

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batstorm93672 · 2 years

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"Let me go ahead, it'll be easier to catch him Batman"

"I said no Jason"

Damian stopped and looked at his father who didn't seem to even get what he said as he kept talking into his comm. Damian looked back down, at his gloved palm. What did it mean being called someone else? It's not the first time. It is never the first time, he was called Steph, Dick, Tim and Jason before. He was always shocked at that moment.

Does his father ever consider the fact that he is Damian? That his name is Damian, that he is his own being in comparison to his other family members? Does Bruce ever take that into account? Or will he always be someone else? His urge and struggle to be worth lest he fails and is no longer wanted, Dick called it abuse, Damian called it normal upbringing.

"Tim you have to wait, sometimes things aren't that clear, bad guys have ways of setting traps and even if it feels safe sometimes it's not"

Another name. Not his. Just another name. Damian looked at his feet, kicking some dust about. Batman didn't really notice when he called him different names and even if he did, Damian couldn't tell because Batman got silent after doing so. Never bringing it up and Damian is horrible at trying to bring it up as well so it's never addressed.

Damian kept petting Titus as he read his book, Stephanie was on her phone scrolling through whatever, Jason was also reading and Tim was on his laptop. It was a comforting silence until Dick's footsteps drew close. "Hey Timmy what are you reading?" Damian kept quiet "Oh my bad Dames. Thought you were Tim" "Tt. Apparently so does father, might as well be one of you instead of myself" Dick frowned a bit as everyone looked up at Damian "He's doing it again?" "I was called Jason and Tim recently, you two as well on different occasions" Jason put a bookmark on his page as he looked at Damian "How bad is it?" "I... I've been compared enough times, I need to speak with him, I tire of twiddling my thumbs and waiting for him to make the first move" "Are you sure? He's not the best at social conversations with us" "I know, but... Richard-" Damian looked at Dick who kept standing in the doorway "-you have said that communicating with one another is a fundamental part of relationship" "Yeah I did" "So I shall go to father" "I believe in you" Damian got a little brighter with that confidence, walking out towards Bruce's study.

Knocking, Damian felt his hands become sweaty as time seemed to slow down.

Cease at once, I am Damian Wayne, son of the Bat and Demon. I must speak to father as one

"Come in"

Damian opened the door, Bruce was going through papers "Damian. Is there something I can help you with? Do you want to hang out?" Bruce always leaped at the idea of his children bonding with him. Most likely his sorta crappy childcare and wanting to redeem himself (Damian thought he was bad at times, but he means well and everyone knows this no matter how much they all make fun of him) "I wished to ask on our outings, you have called me by my siblings names more so the ones who have deemed the name Robin before... if I have done something wrong I wish to know how you want me to improve" Bruce looked surprised "What? No, you didn't do anything wrong. Why would it mean you did something wrong,"

"What else could it be? Obviously I've messed up as the others have before, I just have to do better and prove that I'm Damian the blood son who won't make mistakes and prove my worth lest I become irrelevant"

Bruce looked hurt and he moved the papers in front of him away "Damian, do you feel like that all the time?"

Damian felt his cheeks burn a bit, did he say something wrong? Is this not how he was supposed to feel on the matter? "Is this... wrong of me? I am supposed to be Robin, a perfect warrior for you" "Damian you are my child-" "Why can't I be what everyone wants?!"

Damian wanted to bite his tongue, he didn't mean to shout "I'm sorry--" "Damian, who I need is you. You are my son and I love you. Calling you a different name during patrol isn't my intention, I love every one of you and sometimes I get caught in a moment. I think on something else and I get confused, but that doesn't mean I love you any less Damian"

"I am still useful... right? Why else would you keep me for this long?"

"Because I love you, not just as Robin. But as Damian Wayne, my son whom I love and cherish with all my heart just like everyone else. You don't need to compare yourself with them. I love you as you are son"

Damian smiled a bit and went around the desk to hug his father as much as he could "I love you too father"

#damian wayne #damian wayne has feelings and he wont admit it #jason todd #dick grayson #tim drake #robin #bruce wayne #batman #stephanie brown

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batmanego · 1 year

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okay so Maximum Canon (always written with the capitals) is a term i stole from someone talking about doctor who and i generally use it in a few (contradictory) ways.

the first refers to any information that is so canon that it cannot be erased from canon without fundamentally changing the story/character it is canon to. see: bruce wayne's dead parents, clark kent is an alien, etc etc

the second way is more sarcastic/poking fun in nature and that refers to the current canon of a character, usually canon that has rewritten part of a character or story's history. Maximum Canon in this instance can be understood to be tim drake's bisexuality (yay!) or dick grayson getting... "fired" from being robin (What?).

Maximum Canon could also, i guess, be a way to refer to "word of god" canon things, ie anything that isn't canon in the text but is declared canon by the author. blanking on examples here but you get the point.

alternatively, maybe Maximum Canon refers to a sort of culmination of everything that has ever been canon about a character or story, which puts it in direct opposition to the way i use it most often (see use 2). this use is particularly interesting to me as it is the reason why you can, theoretically, portray batman as a hyperviolent uber-rich authoritarian vigilante and not be wrong. (i still think your analysis of him is shallow in this sense, but yes, some versions of him have been this. but also if youre operating in this version of Maximum Canon, all the versions of him that ARENT this are EQUALLY canon, so TAKE THAT)

points 2 and 4, despite being diametrically opposed, have a lot of similarities in this vein because their usages of Maximum Canon essentially mean that as long as you are playing by the "rules" the Maximum Canon has set out, it doesn't matter if you are going against what Used To Be True or not. in usage 2, out with the old in with the new. in usage 4, all facts coexist regardless of how contradictory they are, so you can ascribe to any interpretation you wish to.

i'm more personally fond of the "current canon that supercedes retcons" definition of Maximum Canon, as it both allows and forces me to get creative with what "canon" means to me (is it canon if it hasn't been mentioned since a soft retcon? WHO KNOWS!) AND means that i don't have to live in a world where all star batman and robin is real. "everything is canon no gods no masters", similarly, gives me the opportunity to create Maximum Fanon (a term i use hesitantly to simply mean "my own reconciliation of past MC and current MC", not "lets go wild with character misinterpretation!"). i think i approach Maximum Canon somewhere in the middle of these two. anyways these are just some thoughts on comic book retcons/canonicity

#comics meta #Maximum Canon #long post

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danny-chase · 2 years

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Reasons I know the Batgirls writers didn't do research warnings for salt I'm freaking annoyed as hell

Cass throwing a fight because Babs asked her to keep a low profile is absolutely laughable. In Batgirls (2000) - which mind you, isn't a hard read, it's less than 100 issues and all available on DC's own app, she gives 0 fucks about her secret identity and it takes her realizing she wouldn't be able to live with Babs to actually care about it being a secret (she literally broke into the CIA without her mask on). That she went back for her stuff makes sense, but she would have just clocked the guys in the first place.

Cass being "the gloomy one" - they literally looked at her aesthetic and assigned her one personality trait. Like oh come on. Read 3 comics with her character and you'd know that's not what she's like. She's stilted and awkward in this, whereas in her solo she's fluid and does what she thinks makes sense in the moment.

Similarly Steph being the "happy" one. Look, Dixon be damned, at least he gave her some amount of depth in Robin. Steph is not just cheery all the time, she's had legitimately traumatic things happen to her. She had to give up a child for adoption. Her father abused her. She had a close call with being sexually assaulted by her piano teacher as a child. She has a temper. This Steph has no mode other than happy. Even in her Batgirl series where she was noticeably more cheery, she still had moments of disappointment, worried about things, and felt more human than this

"We barely slept" skejendb in what world is Cass waking up early like come on.

Steph just being there to be Cass's hype man and constantly being cheery feels so wrong. Like yes is the old stuff she was always impressed by Cass's abilities, but there was always the underlying comparison of skill level between the two. It wasn't just "Oh wowwie cass, you're so cool!!!" It was "Cass can do this. And I can't" because Cass was testing her, making her try too, and it genuinely came from a place of her loving Steph and not wanting to see her getting hurt (once the two got to know each other).

Fundamental misunderstanding that the Batgirl mantle means "girl", as in "not an adult". Like... really? Barbara in Batgirl: Year One had graduated college, and iirc was serving in Congress when she was Batgirl before. It says in the first issue of Cass run that she's 17. Steph is in college when she's Batgirl. I would let the 13-14 comment slide because it's not actually a part of the comic but it's so blatantly obvious they're supposed to be children in this run. And Cass and Steph are not children. In fact even in Rebirth Detective Comics, Steph at the end along with Tim went on a roadtrip where they had implied (lied) to Bruce they were going to go start their freshman year. Iirc they slept together. And now Tim's like 20 and Steph is 14? Holy age gap Batman editorial!

Steph worrying so much about Babs approval. Like since when? The girl who got stone walled and cut off from the Batfamily because she didn't meet Bruce's ridiculous standards, and started patrolling during the day without backup because she wanted to be a hero cares about doing things Barbara's way? Someone who they haven't even established a relationship with? Like no offense DC, but Steph's interacted with Babs not all that frequently, I for a second don't think she's going to give too many shits about Babs approval

Steph comes off as a complete amateur who's never done any of this stuff before. Way to erase character development DC and repeat her shitty writing that was eventually used as an excuse to kill her off! Can you hear me clapping! Wonderful job! And while I'm here this is about batgirls, but fuck you seeley for calling Steph the failure as robin, because if you'd actually read those comics you'd notice how BRUCE NEVER GAVE HER A REAL SHOT. Because you're pretty much hit over the head with the "he's only using her to get Tim back subtext"

Going to Babs instead of doing something themselves is very ooc for both Steph and Cass as established in prev points. In what case would Barbara workaholic Gordon dismiss them like that either. "Go to bed you're delirious?" From the character that used to have surveillance cameras on the joker she constantly used to watch? Yeah laughable.

Barbara used a cane on (1) page and they put her bed atop a flight of stairs and the apartment is four stories up (implied in the beginning they had to walk up them sooo no elevator). It doesn't feel like they put much thought into how that would work out, or care about returning her to a wheel chair anytime soon with all those stairs everywhere. She treats Steph and Cass like her children when we've had 0 build up for a relationship with either of them. She fell asleep at her desk (Barbara sleeping is laughable).

I've seen comics treat Babs worse but I've never seen Cass or Steph this infantized. Congrats Batgirls writers, I hope selling out to fandom 1-D characters gets you good sales, and you had to do no work researching the characters so it's a double win! Thanks for ruining characters I like. It's literally not even hard to read either of there Batgirl series, congrats on tripping over the bar that was below the ground.

Edit: @fancyfade pointed out it was one of Steph's dad friends that assaulted her, which then led into being upset with her piano teacher latter (if i was writing batgirls, you better bet I'd have reread that issue)

Edit 2: I know invisible disabilities exist. This is better rep than none at all. But imo, she's not Oracle again until she's paraplegic again.

#negativity #salty rant #genuinely loathe when female characters are sacrificed towards making the book appeal to the generic female or whatever #i wouldn't have liked this as a kid pfftt i would have taken one look at the boys comic and been like i want this one instead #stuff like this is why i had my I'm not like the other girls phase and hated pink and whatever #fuck dc #all my homies hate dc #the rage #i feel after reading that #it makes me want to scream and quit dc all together

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consumeconstantly · 4 years

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Bring Me To The Precipice of Victory

1| 2 | 3(you are here) | 4 | next

Summary: When Batman departs— just for a short time, just to patch things up in Gotham— things go horribly, horribly wrong in Paris.

He doesn’t know if he can come back from realizing that Marinette and Ladybug are one and the same (and that his daughter has died more times than he can count.) (all biodad bruce are posted in chronological order but can be read as stand alones)

______________________________________________

The moment of peace, of solidarity, that Batman shares with Ladybug up on that rooftop at night means the world.

After a minute or two, Ladybug pulls back, tear tracks down the sides of her face, eye and nose red. She takes another minute of silence,hugging herself in the muggy Parisian air. When she next opens her eyes, Batman can almost imagine that Ladybug never cried at all.

But he knows that's not true. Ladybug seemed so fragile in his arms. He can imagine— he can imagine Dick in her place, broken over Jason’s death. Tim losing his parents. All of his children facing insurmountable odds with no team by their side. Alone.

Ladybug is not alone, but functionally, she may as well be. He’s watched the fights. He’s analyzed them. Ladybug is always, always the leader. She strategizes with Ryuko and Viperion, but Ladybug is who everybody looks to for an answer when things don’t work out the way they want them to. She’s the one with the plan, the backup plan, the out. She’s the one who swoops in to save the day.

She’s also the one who has racked up the most hours on the battlefield. Even Chat Noir, her partner, only has three quarters of the hours that she’s put in. For most of the other members of her team, she puts in double, sometimes even triple of what they do. Over the course of six years, there have been a little under two thousand battles, lasting from under an hour to over five hours. Ladybug has shown up for every single one, without fail. That’s not even counting the patrols that they do; although Ladybug is given a lot of flack for not patrolling as often as Chat Noir, there’s a fundamental difference in how they patrol. Ladybug is methodical, Chat Noir is volatile.

He’s not a bad superhero when it comes down to battle, but the two of them are fundamentally different. Ladybug sees her time as a superhero as a duty. Chat Noir seems to view it as a time to unwind— and while that’s worrying, considering the information he’s gathered on the Miraculous Team so far points to the majority of them beings teens or young adults— it’s not what is needed to deal with the Paris situation.

Perhaps one of the easiest ways to see these differences is during patrol. Chat Noir uses patrol time almost seems to be an outlet for stress. He entices whoever he’s on patrol with to race to random places in Paris with no rhyme or reason. Whenever he comes across crime, he stops it, but Ladybug— Ladybug searches for crime.

Ladybug has a team and she trusts them with her life, but she cannot trust them to be responsible. That is perhaps the worst possible thing that can happen. And through the videos that he’s watched, it’s clear that the hours she puts in do affect her, and fairly heavily.

Whoever she is, she’s young. Too young to be in battle untrained, because they are untrained— despite being in the field for years, all of their basic form lacks and tells anybody with an experienced eye that they’ve never had formal training in martial arts.

When Batman and Ladybug leave the roof, they leave on a better note than where they started. Batman is still upset that Tom and Sabine are dead, but he cannot attribute it solely to Ladybug’s negligence. He admires the young heroine for rising to the occasion when there was nobody else to help. He has no doubt that with the resources and training that he can provide him and his operatives already on the case, Hawkmoth will be revealed in no time at all.

He’s right, but in the worst possible way.

It’s largely a mistake on hiss part-- he gets a notification that the Joker broke out of Arkham again, and Hawkmoth and Pavona are missing for the time being. Though Ladybug has made a mistake in not taking Pavona out immediately, she and her team have won every akuma and sentimonster battle. The logical course of action is to go where the most danger is.

Bruce does not have any predictive powers. There is no way for him to know what’s going to happen. But when he and his team finally catch the Joker and put him away again-- a feat that takes just a little under twenty four hours, extreme concentration, and a good number of injuries-- Batman finally gets a chance to breathe. The adrenaline from facing off against the Joker’s latest scheme fades. Batman reclines in a chair as Alfred binds his wounds and passes him pain relieving pills while he gets stitches in his abdomen.

He checks the news in Paris.

He almost drops the device that he’s using to view the news.

Marinette’s existence has been hidden from his family. With Dick, he was more concerned about his existence as Robin, rather than informing him that he had a sister. As soon as he started contemplating bringing up Marinette, Batman and Robin had a bad break. Then Jason came along, troubled and angry. Bruce didn’t want to introduce Marinette into the mix then because he was volatile.

Jason died due to Batman’s incompetence. Bruce grieved the loss of his ward; Batman was never allowed to mourn the loss of his second Robin.

Tim felt unworthy as the only child Bruce didn’t pick up off the streets, and Damian-- well, Damian was Damian. First he had a superiority complex the size of the Grand Canyon, and once he got accustomed to how they handled things in the Wayne Manor-- though Tim would argue that Damian is still not used to this kind of lifestyle-- he overcompensated every single mission and needed a remedial course on How to Interact With Other Humans 101. Add the overarching concern of Marinette being exposed to his vigilante life style and being unprepared for it, and he was never able to tell his children that he had another biological kid. A daughter.

When the news that Sabine and Tom died reached his ears, he told everybody he had business in Paris without elaborating what. With Wayne Enterprises opening a Paris branch of their R&D specialising in European artifacts, it was easy to draw connections that weren’t there.

“Bruce, you need to relax. Business in Paris can be dealt with later, you need to take the time to heal,” Tim says.

A clip in his shoulder from a bullet, knife wounds on his torso and legs, a sprained wrist. Whatever chemical experiment the Joker got his hands out still pumping through his veins. “I need to go-- it’s important--”

The pain relievers Alfred gave him earlier were also a sedative.

Tim catches him before he passes out.

He wakes up three hours late through sheer force of will.

“Paris!” Bruce jolts upright, still in costume, lying prone on a medical cot in the Batcave.

The first thing that catches his eyes is the red and black flying across the screens.

Ladybug.

His kids are all watching the screens with abject horror.

“Is this,” Tim wets his lips. “The business trip that you were on?”

Bruce drags himself out of bed, adrenaline washing out any residual pain. He doesn’t have the capacity to respond, he needs to get to the zeta tube, he needs to get to Paris, Ladybug is bleeding, the city is in shambles, and Marinette--

One of the news sites up on the screen declares the arrondissements that are obliterated. The one that houses Tom & Sabine’s Boulangerie is amongst their number. An approximate death toll fills the static.

-- Marinette is likely among those lost. He has lost another child due to his inaction. Due to his inability to push through, to look forwards and predict the future and the consequences of his actions. Marinette is another Jason, but if Ladybug doesn’t get it together, she’ll be gone permanently. And Ladybug is little more than a child. She can’t handle it, not by herself, not with her team. She needs an experienced hero, and Batman will be there for her, be the one leading the charge against Hawkmoth as the civilians hide in their homes and pray for her Miracle Cure to reverse the damage.

Dick places a hand on his shoulder. Bruce tries to shrug it off, but his fingers dig into the place where the bullet clipped his flesh. The pain is just a reminder that if he does not get to Paris now, there will be thousands-- no, millions-- more who feel this pain. How did Marinette die? Was it an akuma? Did the rubble of one of the destroyed buildings fall on her? Did Ladybug even try to protect her?

“I need to go,” Bruce growls.

“You can’t. While you were out, the majority of the Justice League prohibited all travel via zeta tubes. Nobody can get into Paris right now.”

Bruce knocks Dick’s hand off his shoulder and turns to his eldest. At the very least, Dick and the rest of his children look solemn. Damian’s gaze is fixed to one of the screens that shows Ladybug. “A city is in danger, millions of lives are at risk, Marinette--”

His daughter is dead. He can’t bring himself to say it out loud.

Standing by idly is the last thing he’ll let himself do.“Who put out the order? I’ll get them to reverse it.”

Dick moves so he’s between the zeta tube and Bruce. “B, you don’t understand. If you go to Paris right now, you’ll get akumatized.”

“I can handle my emotions.”

Jason points at the upper right section of screens that’s replaying past footage. “I wouldn’t bet Paris’ survival on it. Not when more level headed superheroes got on the scene first and failed. They really don’t need any heavy hitters getting akumatized. Not when Superman put three members of their team out of commission.”

Superman arrived on the scene first; it took a matter of seconds for him to get akumatized. He was responsible for razing down three arrondissements in no time flat. Ladybug had to call for a Lucky Charm in order to get her hands on some kryptonite, which forced her to recoup after her time ran out.

Black Canary arrived next. Then Red Tornado.

Both were akumatized in mere minutes.

“After Red Tornado got akumatized, Wonder Woman led the charge to put the rest of the zeta tubes on lockdown,” Duke says, grim. “All we can do now is hope that these Parisian superheroes can pull off a win.”

Bruce stumbles over to get a better view. He remembers Ladybug, small and slight in his arms. A child, crying over the loss of her pseudo parents.

A warrior, bloody and bruised and broken.

She is one of the last ones standing.

King Monkey and an ox themed hero both died at Superman’s hands. The former got in the way of his laser beams, the latter a victim of super strength and getting thrown through two buildings and having their necks snap at an unsightly angle. Chat Noir was also sent hurtling through the air, and the only reason he was still alive was because Ladybug alighted from the sky and grabbed him before he got sent through a building in his unconscious state. Black Canary came shortly after, apparently informed of the Superman situation and carrying kryptonite.

She didn’t last for long either. Almost immediately after helping Ladybug and Ryuko bind Superman in such a way that he couldn’t escape,

Pegasus got hit by Black Canary’s sound waves and Chat Noir’s residual injuries from his fight with Superman forced him into a state of unconsciousness. Queen Bee and Carapace were able to pull off a win against Black Canary, but not without serious injuries. Ryuko faced off against Red Tornado alone, which normally would have been a thing of awe, but in the grander scheme of things, was a huge issue, as without her, the Miraculous Team functionally lost all of their heavy hitters. Rena Rouge and several Miraculous users that clearly had never been in battle before were the ones left to hold their own against the scores of akumatized Parisians.

The only ones left to hunt down Hawkmoth and Pavona were Ladybug and Viperion, and the former was already on her third use of Lucky Charm.

Ladybug pulls out her communicator, dodging an attack.

“Can we get sound on this?” Jason grips the closest table.

Dick shakes his head. “Zatara says there’s already enough interference just trying to get these images. And for some reason, Dr. Fate refuses to get involved with any of this.”

Bruce’s phone rings. He doesn’t pick it up on the first ring, too focused on the ongoing battles. He does take his phone out of his pocket to silence it the next time, but when he presses the sound off, an image comes through.

“Bruce.” Ladybug’s image comes through crystal clear, and it doesn’t make him feel any better. Ladybug, blood dripping from her mouth, costume torn open, hair burnt, wild eyed.

He opens his mouth to speak, but the image goes blurry as she moves to avoid several attacks pointed towards her.

“Before I go, I--”

“Watch out, LB!” Bruce lifts his eyes to the screen that displays Ladybug and Viperion in battle. The spotted heroine gets pushed out of the way of a laser, but the snake themed hero takes the hit.

The ambient noise coming from his phone is strong; he can hear blades clashing in the background as Chat Noir, already on his last legs attempts to hold off Darkblade. Screaming from civilians, a strangled sob from Ladybug. “Viperion.”

Ladybug comes back into view. Blue eyes filled with rage.

“If this doesn’t end in our favor, you need to make sure that Hawkmoth and Pavona do not acquire both the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculous. Do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening.” She blinks, retreats into herself, and Bruce wonders if he’s seeing the girl behind the mask.

“And If I don’t get to see you again--” If I’m dead, the words go unspoken, “I really did want the chance -- I-- you’re a good man. A good father. Your daughter-- she loves you. She really, really does. Stay safe.”

The transmission cuts off. On the screen in front of him, Ladybug closes her communicator, closes Viperion’s open eyes, and strides to the epicenter of the akumas. Blue fire flashes in her irises, and for a moment, she’s staring directly at the screen. And Bruce knows those eyes. He knows them.

The next second, all of the computers simultaneously die.

Bruce is numb. No-- no.

He is nothing.

All his children-- no, not all his children, Marinette is missing, Marinette is Ladybug, and she’s out on a field that he can’t see grappling with magic forces strong enough to incapacitate Justice League members like their powers and abilities are inconsequential-- stare at him.

“That was… Ladybug?” Tim’s brow furrows. It’s clear that he’s thinking up a hundred different reasons why Ladybug and Batman are connected, why he’s the last person she calls before going into a battle that could very well cost her her life.

“My daughter.” The words are ash on his lips. An existence he’s never acknowledged. Not out loud. Saying it brings a sense of finality to the room. An impending death. “My daughter.”

Nobody asks how long he’s known or when he met her or why he’s never brought it up before. Everything is fuzzy. Floating.

For a while, there’s silence.

“Zatara says there’s too much interference to get the picture back up,” Dick opens his messages, frowning.

Damian still stares at the screen Ladybug looked at directly, frozen.

Bruce picks himself up and moves. He may not be able to use the zeta tubes, but he has a private jet and a license, and he’ll be damned if he doesn’t do something.

It takes two hours too long to get to Paris. He shaved five hours off the flight length due to superior technology, and another hour and a half off due to sheer force of will.

The landing is not a pretty thing, but Paris is already in shambles, and there’s no way that the ATC will approve his landing, so Bruce picks out the flattest looking spot of rubble before his jet meets the ground.

According to Tim and Duke, who stayed behind in case this turned out to be an attack spanning multiple cities, the battle ended mere minutes before they landed. Dick manages to get Zatara to broadcast the image in the cockpit of the jet, and on the screen lay three prone bodies. Gabriel Agreste, whose body type fits that of Hawkmoth, Lila, and a third that Bruce does not recognize.

A bone sticks out of Marinette’s arm, the connected hand crushed and hanging limp. The opposing ankle is twisted almost fully backwards. She is covered in blood and ash and filth. There is no victory in her eyes. Only weariness.

In her good hand, she holds her yoyo.

She raises her eyes skywards-- the roof of the Agreste mansion is blown clean off-- blinks slowly, and throws the yoyo into the air.

“Miraculous Cure,” her lips read.

The corpses in Paris rise from the dead. Rubble reforms into buildings. The ashy haze that covered the city disappears.

Ladybug looks like she wants to disappear, too.

She collapses, instead.

Nobody is there to catch her when she drops to the floor.

@biodad-bruce-month

Maribat tag list(to be added onto this pls send me an ask/dm): @our-precipreciousss @my-dear-friend-anxiety

Who Are You (and what will you become) tag list (to be added here just comment): @anjuschiffer @theunquiet-dead @certainmuffinbagelcalzone @cresentmo0n @allulily @myazael @zalladane @rebecarojas07 @keepingupwiththemalfoys @frieddonutsweets @all-mights-asscheeks @thornalchemist23 @trippingovermyfeet @jiso-lee @redscarlet95 @ira-sairain @screechingflapbiscuitpeach @ramos123 @cutechip @theunquiet-dead @sleep-deprived-aroace @enternalempires @lilkymilky @woe-is-me0 @officiallydarkgeek @miyla-lokidottir @queencommonsense @demonicbusiness

mb for not doing tag list right away i forgot i had these cued up already

#bio!dad bruce wayne month 2020 #maribat #what are dates #what's going in order #time? i don't know her #i'm always late #marinette dupain cheng #bruce wayne #bio!dad bruce #angst

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