#not quite canon aspec representation

[jaynaneeya]

Feeling so many feelings about the lack of romance in Headless: A Sleepy Hollow Story (spoilers ahead so please watch it before reading this. Actually watch it regardless of whether you read this.)

I feel like the general perception of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow is that it's about Ichabod and Brom fighting because they're in love with Katrina. But if you actually read the story, them wooing her feels like more of a status thing than an actual romantic thing, and Katrina is so underdeveloped that we have no idea how she feels about any of this. Naturally, with Sean Persaud playing Ichabod and Mary Kate Wiles playing Kat, my expectation going into Shipwrecked's version was that they were absolutely going to be in love with each other and their romance was going to drive the story, much as Poe and Annabel's had driven their previous series. Ichabod and Katrina don't end up together in the original story, so if I'd thought about it I might have anticipated some tragedy would pull them apart, but regardless, I thought this was definitely going to be another MK/Sean love story.

And then...it wasn't? Ichabod definitely had a crush on Kat, but she was responding very confusingly, and the story was way more about hijinks with the horseman's heads and the history of Sleepy Hollow and the quirky townspeople than about their relationship. Which was great and kind of what I was hoping for, so perfect, yay, another fabulous Shipwrecked ensemble piece.

And THEN. Out of NOWHERE. We got a wedding plot twist. And here's where others might disagree with me about the lack of romance thing, because I feel like a lot of people definitely interpret the fact that they stayed married to mean that Brom and Matilda fell in love with each other romantically. But from my perspective it absolutely looks like a queerplatonic relationship. They don't even want to kiss at their wedding. Also the fact that Brom was SO OBSESSED with Kat for a full DECADE but then just completely forgets about her when he accidentally marries someone else? That screams aroace pretending/convincing themself to have a crush. Brom even says that "there's always been Tassels and Brunts, forever, getting married and stuff." Brom decided he was supposed to end up with Kat, and he had no alternate plans for if that didn't work out, so he was just waiting for her to come back around to that idea. But then when he marries Matilda instead, he's just like, "Okay, cool, this works." Matilda seems pretty annoyed by Brom early in the series, but she's also mildly amused by him, and definitely recognizes that he's trying to overcome his own toxicity. They've known each other so long that even though they probably don't realize it, they already deeply care about each other as friends. And she's clearly lonely and terrified of losing the few people she loves, so having one of them closer to her probably seems appealing. So they stay married. But I don't believe it's romantic or sexual attraction that brought or kept them together. Which of course is just my personal headcanon, others could reasonably disagree, but I'm just saying, the series at no point disproves this theory.

And then, after the friend group continues to get closer, both to each other and to solving the mystery of the head, we get the immensely satisfying explanation for why Kat's behavior has been so confusing. She never cared about him, she was manipulating him. And what is so. fricking. cool. about what happens next is, Ichabod, instead of dwelling on this heartbreak, turns to his friends, and they all work together to save the day. And in the end, he doesn't have a romantic partner, but he has a community, and he seems to be perfectly satisfied with that, and I think that's so incredibly beautiful.

Poe Party is also about friendship, but the catalyst for the events of the story is Poe's desire to win Annabel away from Eddie. But in Headless, the story is driven by a combination of Ichabod redeeming his family and Matilda trying to save her friend (I realize people are probably going to ship Matilda and Kat, too, but there's no canonical indication that their relationship isn't platonic). I already appreciated Shipwrecked for telling stories that place a lot of emphasis on deep and complex but not romantic relationships, but Headless really takes this several levels beyond what they've previously done. Of course, this is far from the only way Shipwrecked has leveled up with Headless, and it's probably one of the less intentional or noticeable ways. But as an aroace person who has only recently started unpacking the ways that amatonormativity has impacted how I see myself and the world, it means a lot that my favorite creators keep telling stories about people who are very easy to headcanon as aspec.

TL;DR Matilda and Brom are in a qpr, and Ichabod is happy being single with friends, and this means a lot more to me than it probably should

#headless series #shipwrecked comedy #headless spoilers #not quite canon aspec representation #but DARN close #unnecessarily long post is unnecessarily long #was this partly prompted by a youtube comment complaining that ichabod doesn't end up with a romantic love interest? maybe so #i'm not here to invalidate anyone's ships #this is my personal interpretation #but just the fact that it's so easy to interpret the story and relationships this way makes me happy

[a-bit-of-a-queer-one]

I loved Wild Blue Yonder, I thought it was a great episode. But if I see one more person proclaiming that the Doctor saying Isaac Newton was "hot" made the character "finally queer", I'm gonna set fire to sth.

For one thing, since they changed into a woman, the Doctor has, depending on one's definition, been canonically genderfluid/trans/nonbinary/genderqueer. That was made even more explicit last week in Star Beast. So saying that the Doctor as played by a man and using he/him pronouns calling a man "hot" somehow made the character queer is stupid in and of itself.

And secondly, the Doctor has long been regarded as aro and ace-coded by people of those communities and guess what? Aro and ace people really do exist and we are queer. And it would be lovely if other queer people could stop excluding us by saying that characters who provide what little, mostly accidental and incidental representation we get "become queer" by expressing same-sex attraction. It happened with Good Omens and it seems to be happening again with Doctor Who and I am so fucking tired of it

Edit (6th Dec 2023): Several people have pointed out in the notes that there have been quite a few instances of the Doctor ambiguously or indeed unambiguously expressing 'same-sex' attraction and exploring their gender identity/identities in the past, both in the show and in extended media. I just wanted to be absolutely clear on the fact that I was in way trying to diminish the importance of those moments by emphasing the aspect of asexuality and aromanticism in my post. That is not to say that I think anyone was implying that I was doing that, in fact everyone's been lovely (which is why I also wanted to thank everyone for their input, I learnt a lot, especially about the novels!!)

Of course, as an asexual, aromantic and agender/nonbinary person, that is the lens through which I watch the show and relate to the character of the Doctor. This does not make my reading of them any more or less valid than anyone else's. In fact, I absolutely love the fact that the Doctor is a character who speaks to people of so many different queer identities and I am so happy that RTD is exploring their queerness more explicitly, building on what he and so many other writers and also the actors have already established. I just hope that the fandom will respect the aro and ace aspects of the Doctor's queerness the same way they do their gender identities and other sexual and romantic orientations. Part of the reason I was initially quite worried about this was because of my experiences in the Good Omens fandom, particularly post series 2, as indicated in my original post. The other is that I doubt the show will explore the aro and ace aspects of the character as much as they may other queer identities - unfortunately aspecs have a history of being left behind in this regard...

But we will see, maybe I'll be proved wrong! For the time being, I just hope the queer community can celebrate all the different facets of the Doctor's undeniable queerness, including the aspec ones. And as the reactions to this post have been overwhelmingly supportive (I don't think I've seen a single outright negative response), I think this hope is far from unfounded.

(Sorry, this edit turned out to be longer than the original post...)

#doctor who #dw spoilers #doctor who spoilers #wild blue yonder #asexuality #aromanticism #asexual #aromantic #acespec #arospec

[damnfandomproblems]

Fandom Problem #4680:

Outrage over shipping (or lewding) canonically aromantic and / or asexual characters.

I definitely understand the frustration of people just refusing to recognize or acknowledge their identity, since there's so few of them already. But i also see a lot of inflexibility in NOW aro / ace people are viewed or expected to behave. (Mostly either naiive and childishly innocent, awkward quirky teens, or cold robotic and unfeeling). And being aroace myself I rarely see any that actually resonate or feel compelling. Not to say those can't exist ever or that aspec people who ARE happy with them are "wrong" in any way, but I wish the perception what or how an aro / ace person can be wasn't so limited (and honestly---boring).

More of my characters than not are SOME flavor of aspec and all of them have very, very different ways of experiencing it. (And it's not all just "for the representation!!" they just feel natural to the characters and a lot of them are experiences I personally relate to) This includes:

a clout-obsessed social climber who uses relationships as a way of getting what she wants and to boost her ego, and nothing more

someone who's obsessed with the IDEA of romance and really really WANTS to fall in love with someone but it just never happens

someone completely repulsed with sex and romance althogether

an asexual person who wants to try it just to know what it's like but that's all

a sex worker for whom sex is quite literally just "showing up to work" for her, not awful or traumatic or anything, mostly just kinda boring

an aroace person who is so codependant with someone (who's allo) that they basically just form a relationship (along with all the things that usually go with it that the ace person doesn't mind going along with for their sake) I guess what people may call a QPR but that's not a term I personally like to use or find any use for it's okay for others though

someone who's still figuring themself out who hasn't really landed on any specific labels but also isn't really stressing on it that much

someone who takes longer to realize they're aro because for so long what they assumed were romantic feelings was really just feeling flattered, so thought they were "in love with" anyone who was nice to them

aliens whose anatomy includes no sex organs

And sometimes, characters are hot. And characters that are hot get shipped with other hot characters, often with no rhyme or reason other than "hot". Regardless of their canon sexualities. It kinda just comes with the territory of fandom.

(And again I'm really really tired of people using us a a shield to hide their ship hate and sex negativity. Seriously, don't.)

#ask box submission #fandom problem 4680

[styrofauxm]

This isn't my first post on this, and it probably won't be my last. But whatever. I have things I want to say.

Before we start, I want to be clear that this isn't meant to make anyone feel bad for shipping aspec characters. It's to provide another perspective for people (especially non-aspec people) to consider when engaging with aspec characters. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with shipping any characters, but I also think there's sometimes more to it than "it's fiction and I want to."

It's Just Fiction

And actually, that's the first thing I want to address. The idea that because it's just fiction, it is harmless. That simply isn't true. We know that implicit biases can be formed and supported by fiction. We also know that fiction can reveal a writer's implicit and explicit biases. Fanfiction isn't any exception.

If an allo person writes an aspec character in a romantic relationship, without properly understanding and/or conveying that character's identity, that inaccurate portrayal of our real-life experiences is what many readers will come away believing to some extent. If the writer shows any disdain towards aspec people, even entirely unintentionally, there will be readers who walk away with bias towards aspec people. That's simply the reality of the situation.

If you don't understand aspec experiences, you bear responsibility for people who read your work coming away with the wrong idea.

Mainstream writers are rightfully criticized for bias. You may only write fanfiction, but you are not free from criticism when that fanfiction has the potential to build up harmful mindsets.

"Aro people can still date" and "ace people can still have sex" are both true. So is "aromanticism/asexuality is a spectrum." But do you understand how being aromantic and/or asexual affects how we do those things? Do you understand the identity on the ace/aro spectrum that you claim to be writing the character as? Or are you just saying those things, then portraying the aspec experience inaccurately?

I guarantee there are plenty of aspec people who would be so happy if you asked them for their insight about their experiences. Who would be delighted to double-check your fan art or beta read your fanfic. Ask us. Please. (And if you are aspec, and trying to portray an aspec character with an experience/identity you don't have, also ask!)

Of course, that only goes for fanworks that, even poorly, incorporate an aspec character's identity. What about fanworks that completely, and deliberately erase it?

To that, I ask the most obvious question: "How would you feel if someone wrote this about a gay character or a lesbian character?" Because some people's answer is "that's fine," but many people's answer is "that's homophobia." It's a double standard. It's homophobia when it's gay and lesbian identities. But it's not aphobia when it's aspec identities.

Now, I don't fully agree with either of those. I don't think that the people doing that are certainly homophobes or aphobes. But I do think that it can be an indicator of homophobia or aphobia. Obviously, not everyone who ignores the identity of a fictional character is a bigot. But it's inaccurate to claim none of them are.

Representation

Running along those same lines, let's get into representation. Here's the wikipedia list of canon aromantic characters. There are 18 characters on it. That's right, in all media mainstream enough to have a wikipedia page (which is quite a lot of media), there are an entire 18 canon aromantic characters. The list of asexual characters is a bit longer, with 72 characters. But again, there is a crap ton of media big enough to be on wikipedia. 72 characters is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction.

What I'm getting at is that there is next to no aspec representation. And yet the first reaction to the confirmation of a character being aspec is one of hostility. It's justifications for shipping. It's saying that word-of-god isn't enough, or isn't clear enough, or is a lie. It's saying that only explicit confirmations count (even if it makes no sense within the setting).

Instead of what every other queer confirmation gets. Near-universal celebration of representation.

That aspec people aren't even afforded an minute to celebrate representation is awful. That the rest of the queer community would rather discourse than celebrate with us is awful.

And it begs the question: why do you find your ship more important than representation? And why is that only the case with aspec representation?

Aspec Experiences

Part of growing up aspec for many people is not even knowing that our experience is real. It's believing that there is something wrong with us and if we just do the right things then we can be normal.

The message that everyone wants to have sex and fall in love is pushed by everyone in our lives, and is supported by almost every piece of media we see.

Outside of the aspec community, our experiences are depicted as wrong.

In media, our experiences don't get shown. Or if they are shown, they are something that gets fixed by the end.

That is why we cling so hard to the slivers of representation we get. It shows our experiences as normal, as valid, as okay.

So when we see ships of those few characters, we see the invalidation of and derision towards our experiences. So yeah, a lot of us get uncomfortable.

And we shouldn't have to push that down or not talk about it simply because it might ruin some people's fun.

Aphobia in Fandom

It's not just discourse. It's dogpiling aspec people who talk about our representation. It's harassing and sending death threats to aspec people who share their opinions on shipping aspec characters. It's all of that, and more, without anyone else from the queer community stepping in and defending us.

The same happens when we rightfully point out and criticize amatonormativity and aphobia in media and fandom spaces.

The same happens when we just post a headcanon.

Aspec people can only participate in fandom on the terms of alloromantic and allosexual people. The moment we start bringing our experiences into how we interact with media is the moment we get pushed out.

Beyond the more overt stuff, there's also a ton of subtle stuff. Ranging from "friends don't do stuff like that" all the way to insisting that a character is evil because they don't feel love (whether or not that's canon).

And if a character is confirmed to be aspec? Everything gets turned onto the max setting. Ironically, canon representation has the effect of making us less safe in fandom spaces.

Conclusion

I will not ask you to put down the ship. If you want to ship aspec characters, so be it. But do so with awareness of it's actual impact.

Understand that the fanart/fanfic you make for a character can have a real impact on aspec people. Understand that you may be counteracting the positive effects that representation has on aspec people. Understand that you are making fandom spaces more uncomfortable, and even hostile for aspec people.

Final note: I will not engage with anyone who acts like a jerk. I will just block, and if necessary, report them. I will also assume that anyone posting vitriolic responses didn't read the whole post, or they would have seen this part.

#asexual #aromantic #lgbtq+ #aspec #hazbin hotel #i may regret that tag. we'll see #it's not the ONLY fandom I had in mind while writing but it is the one currently discussing this #aphobia #neon's void

[rose-morose]

okay FINE, I'll comment on the Alastor aroace discourse, not that anyone asked

and I'm aware of the discourse around whether or not he's canon aromantic, but that's not really relevant to what I want to say so we'll stay away from that and go with aroace for now

look, I'm aroace, and just like the rest of us I've been starved for representation in media, and Hazbin Hotel gave us Alastor and many of us, myself included, were thrilled with the representation of an identity that spends most of the time in the dark

I find Alastor to be an incredibly interesting character, and though some complain about the only aroace character being a serial killer, I think he represents the aspec community quite well

what's important to me is that his serial killer quality is unrelated to his sexuality, the show never tries to convey that he is asexual because he's insane or vice versa, it's just a part of his identity because despite the fact that he is a serial killer he's also a person, and sometimes people are ace

as for the community, I firmly believe that as long as you're not proshipping, shipping fictional characters regardless of gender and sexuality is fine, it's ok that some people are sexually attracted to Alastor, it doesn't make him any less asexual

in my opinion it is important to remember that just because Alastor represents us, that doesn't make him ours, we don't own him, he's here for the entire fandom, and although it's nice to finally find a character you can relate to, that character is far more than just their sexual identity

I get it, we're frustrated and tired of media ignoring our existence, or worse yet misrepresenting it

it sucks

but I think that portraying the Hazbin Hotel fandom as a whole as being in denial about asexuality is not entirely fair

though these people certainly exist, I think we can all enjoy the show, and share our thoughts freely

I personally stay away from fan made content that involves romantically or sexually shipping Alastor, but I don't believe it is a problem that content exists

regardless, I'll just perform the cliche and ask that everyone remain civil and respectful

I appreciate your time

#hazbin hotel #rose rambles #asexual #aromantic #aroace #hazbin hotel alastor #a bit late #but it doesn't really matter #queer #lgbtq

[idrellegames]

Not an ask. But thank you so much for the aspec representation in Wayfarer. It's so refreshing to see an alloaro character like Veyer that is canonically alloaro and isn't the character archetype that sleeps around a lot and you just hope that they are around but then they eventually gets "fixed" by love. Anyways thanks for being awesome.

I so very rarely see alloaro characters handled with respect in fiction since it's so easy to boil their traits down to "noncomittal person who sleeps around until the right person comes around and fixes them". It's the flip same of the same coin as romantic asexuals, where the character gets boiled down to "inexperienced person who has never had sex until the right person comes around and fixes them."

Sexual attraction and romantic attraction are so often tied together as a single experience. And it is this way for many people, but not for everyone. Just speaking generally as an ace person, my experience is that aromanticism and asexuality are more palatable for non-acespec folks when they're treated as something that goes hand in hand. But being aroace isn't the only way to be aromantic or asexual - there's a huge variety of way people experience attraction and calling treating romantic and sexual attraction as the same thing is a disservice to everyone (even for allosexuals whose sexual orientation may not match up with their romantic one!).

Within the context of storytelling - at least in western writing - there's a narrative demand to meet certain expectations otherwise the trajectory may fall flat and be seen as unfulfilling. A committed relationship that includes both romance and sex is typically the desired end goal with fictional relationships (look at any romantic comedy, even going back to Shakespeare - Shakespearen comedies always end with a wedding). You can also look to the prevalence of the OTP in fandom - there's a desire to see your favourite characters get together in a specific way and to have that relationship come to fruition. And it is quite fun! I don't mean this as a knock against it - I enjoy OTPs myself, I love romance in fiction so much. I love a satisfying romance arc. Most of my OCs for video games have relationships and its a focal part of their character development.

But this does mean that aromantic and asexual people often sit on the sidelines because they don't fit perfectly into that type of story structure. So it can be very difficult to include them. They blur the lines of the format. They make it a little messy. They don't match the expectation.

I think with aromantic characters, too, both writers and audiences don't know what to do with them. There's always this lingering sense of disappointment that romance is off the table, that their arc isn't going to culminate in a committed relationship. Even in the world of IF and gaming, we don't have terminology to classify aromantic characters who can have some kind of relationship with the player character because the terminology is Romance Option (RO) or Love Interest (LI). Wayfarer's character roster is evidence of how much of a stumbling block this is - Aeran and Veyer are included on it as "romances", even though they aren't in the traditional sense (Aeran falls into the "conditional" label, Veyer is in the "tryst" one, but neither of them are technically "romances" in the traditional sense).

As for Veyer themself, they aren't interested in romance. They are in their 60s, they've been around the block a few times, they know what they do and do not want. They know what their life is like and what they can and cannot commit to due to outside factors. They may be smitten with people they find interesting or intriguing, but romance or long-term commitment isn't a part of that.

This doesn't mean that they can't be compassionate or genuinely care about their partners or enjoy their company, they're just going about it in a different way.

#wayfarer #wayfarer if #wayfarer characters #veyer krellion #aromantic #asexuality #romances #answered

[total-drama-takes-takes-2]

lgbt thoughts

like the ethnicity post i really only have ideas about certain characters and the rest are up to whatever people think they are ^_^ i mean these are too, speculate whatever you want, but heres my interpretation of a few characters

joner: aroace. romance-neutral. this is all self projection on my part, i think joner as a character just prefers friendships to relationships and romance would make him uncomfortable but hes very supportive of others. he/him (impartial to she/her though)

scary: aromantic and unlabeled otherwise. romance-repulsed AND she's a hater about it. she/he/they

kelly: always been transfem somehow to me. transhet. they/them and VERY occasionally they/she, really depends on the mood

michela: bigender boygirl but doesn't really talk about it, especially in those words. would date whoever but high preference for dudes. would label her preference for guys as either straight or gay depending on the context. she/her

courtney: calls themselves non-binary for binary people but it's more complicated than that. sapphic with an itty bitty tiny like for guys they they're still sorting out (is it platonic? romantic? they don't know) . they/them

ass: doesn't care. doesn't know. definitely not cis but a part of it is just not wanting to be like other girls. has a lot of self-doubt over their identity and actually tends to move through labels quite quickly, so they use they/them as a catch-all neutral

max: i had a hard time with this one in terms of good rep and stuff like that, but i think it's safe for me to say max is a pretty binary trans guy. more or less transhet but hes more flexible when it comes to michela's identity. he/him

scruffy: transmasc lesbian and that was always the intention tee bee ach ^_^ they/them but sometimes they/he if they feel like it

fren: gay and definitely not cis but he's very mysterious about it. he/him

bonnie: like courtney also tells binary people that they're non-binary out of convenience, but they definitely don't feel like the term really fits them. not fem not masc not androgynous but something new entirely (goth). on a more serious note i do think the gender fuckery in the goth subculture made them realize a lot of things about themself when they first got into it. also a frequent label-changer when it comes to sexuality. they/them

patrick: unironically too obsessed with himself to be into anyone else in a romantic way /j. hes bad aro representation. hed slay in a QPR tho. he/him

julia: lesbian but she hasnt come to terms with it yet lol. i agree w the headcanons that shes aspec in some regard but havent put much thought into it. she/her

kitty: pan but adverse to romantic relationships. some kind of gender. also a furry i dont think ive mentioned it yet but they have a fursona and made patrick make one too. therres a canon patrick fursona in my notes. no set pronouns, tells people to use whatever

peter: bi and trans guy. tends to prefer girls and feminine presenting people for the most part! he/him

I don't know what sha-mod and mclovin are but they're definitely something. same with caesar, idk what's going on there but he's definitely not cishet.

I definitely need to write albert, phillip, and noco more to get a good feel for them. and everyone else i dont have any strong feelings on

[acilykos]

To everyone who says Senku is unconfirmed as AroAce.

I get it. Stuff like that can be annoying to read over and over again (especially if you're not invested in sexualities or their representation in media). I know so because I'm fucking annoyed that I have to write it over and over again because people don't get it. So bear with me so we can once and for all fucking agree that Senku is canonically a loveless AroAce.

Imagine Ryusui, right ?

Average bisexual, respects women, desires everything and everyone, etc.

By the logic of those who say Senku isn't AroAce, Ryusui isn't bisexual (or bi+).

Why?

Because neither Inagaki nor Boichi said "Ryusui is bisexual/falls under the bisexual umbrella".

Hell, by this logic Francois isn't non-binary. They never said that either. But I digress, let's focus on Ryusui again.

Still he's canon and why is that? Because he said "I love all women you see! Men too! I desire them all!"

This is what an implied confirmation is all about. The character says something that confirms their sexuality. The AUTHORS wrote that line. The authors made the decision to have Ryusui say that.

Ryusui himself never said he's bi+, but he said something that confirms that he's attracted to more than one gender, ergo he's canonically bisexual (or pansexual, or omni, that's not really the point here and not why I made this post, fact is that he is canonically attracted to more than one gender).

Senku responds to Kohaku's "I've fallen for you quite hard" with "Sheesh, annoying crap like that makes me wanna curl up and die."

Senku says "A brain clouded by love is the most irrational kind. It leads to nothing but trouble."

Senku says in response to Homura's "Watch where you're touching me!" with "These kind of tricks won't work on me"

Senku tell Nikki in response to her saying "I could see myself falling for you" with "Let's nip that in the bud, 'kay?".

How he HATES being touched by other people. How he doesn't hug people back because he doesn't want that (also is part of him being autistic, but I digress). He's inconsiderate of others' feelings (Inagaki himself said this one. A comment from the author himself in an interview a few years back. Google it).

OTHER CHARACTERS say Senku "10 billion percent doesn't give a crap about dating" and that he "just says whatever they want to hear just to accomplish his goals" and ALL AGREE TO THAT STATEMENT.

That those who think Senku is romantically/sexually interested in anyone "don't know Senku at all"

He remained SINGLE even AFTER THE END of Dr. Stone. Years of Senku not having romantic interests in people ONCE.

But for some fucking reason people will go OUT OF THEIR WAY, bending over backwards and grasping at straws to say that Senku is unconfirmed, that he will never be AroAce, especially not a loveless AroAce, and send disgusting aphobic comments to Aspec people who just want to be represented in media FOR ONCE and not be the side character of some B plot people will forget.

This reasoning just reeks of pure Aphobia.

Double fucking Standards.

#senku ishigami #ryusui nanami #aromantic #asexual #aroace #ishigami senkū #nanami ryūsui #dr stone #dr. stone #kohaku #dcst #drst #bisexuality #aroace representation #aromantic representation #asexual representation

[that-ghosts-art]

“Come on buddy, don’t ya wanna make a lil deal with lil ol’ me?”

I’ve been on a bit of an equivalence high recently as anyone following me may have guessed haha ^-^

For anyone who’s interested I’ve written some of my thoughts on demon!Mabel below the cut :3

First things first let's talk about her style and general appearance, cause I feel like I’ve deviated a fair bit from the previously established fancy suit she’d been portrayed as having like Dipper.

My logic for the change (outside of wanting to try drawing something that isn’t a suit haha) is that I feel she would have more varietyin the outfits she wears compared to Dipper. Looking at the show Dipper was out there wearing the exact same outfit for an entire summer while Mabel (admittedly wearing the same type of clothes) had significantly more variety, wearing a different sweater every episode, some episodes even having more than one, and I feel this would continue to reflect here.

Dipper has his suit and doesn't venture much further then that if he can help it (obviously not to say he doesn't but you know what I mean). Mabel mean while would have a new outfit every day, multiple per day sometimes!

Most of the time I think she would default to a more punk, diy aesthetic because of the inherent creativity of it (which for a typically detail averse artist such as myself was certainly a decision haha), not to mention I can imagine Mabel being like “I’m a literal demon Dipper I gotta go for the outfits with the spikes and chains!”

At the same time she would definitely enjoy trying out a whole host of different styles (to a point though. Some just aren't comfortable, not any more at least, a part of her stolen away with the Transcendence).

I'd need to do some research into clothing styles to say specifically what else she would enjoy, but I can say it's a lot of black with small splashes and highlights of colour. She's also, regardless of style wear lots and lots of jewellery and piercings cause I think she’d like them :3

Switching things up a bit I wanna quickly go over her pins (ie, her queer identities). My hc for demon!Mabel is the same for normal Mabel, being bisexual with a masc preference, and a demigirl (she/her/they/them exploring and trying out various neo pronouns as she encounters them, rotating through them depending on her mood).

Slightly serious tangent, but I know the previously established lore for EAU was that she would be aroace, but in all honesty that never quite sat right with me. Like the only reason she, or subsequently Dipper in the main TAU canon, are aspec is because of the demon-ness, and while I love demons and the demonic as much as the next aroace person, and I adore representation of my identity, the implications aren’t my favourite in the world. Obviously no disrespect to the people behind that decision, (in fact I applaud them on exploring how a character like Mabel might react to people assuming she wants that in this lil fic here :3). Only the maddest of respect to the people who make characters the identities they want them to be :) I just wanted to address it for anyone who like me has read every bit of eau content they can get their grubby lil hands on and noticed that particular difference :p

Besides, this way we get to explore the logistical and moral implications of a character being allosexual while also being an incredibly powerful and immortal being, especially when you get into questions of how she ages herself compared regular humans :3c (I think I'll leave that for another post though haha)

On a different note, another design idea I had was that it'd be really cool if she had a dynamic and moving tattoo that would constantly change and show new (typically pig and star related) designs :) this definitely wasn't inspired by my own inability to come up with and stick to a particular singer design, definitely not.

I also thought it would be neat to differentiate the demonic aspects of her and Alcor's design by giving her feathered wings, rather than the typical bat wings. I mostly just thought it could be nice to try drawing something different, and while Dipper and Mabel are very close and have a fair amount in common they are still very different characters, so it would make sense for their demonic features to differ, even is only slightly. On that note I also gave her a pink outline to her pupils as inspired by this art cause I thought it was neat :3

Anyway I accidentally posted this before I was finished so Imma just take that as a sign to stop and put my other thoughts in a different post haha 😅

#art #my art #equivalence au #ghost chatters #tau #demon!mabel #mizar #I had perhaps too much fun with this pose and colouring haha #if you saw this in the seconds before I realised I has posted this before I was finished #no you didn't

[desertflowerbowling]

I want to preface this by saying I love that Jon is canonically ace, I was thrilled when it was hinted at and then confirmed, and as an asexual person myself, he means a lot to me.

however.

I am tired of Jonathan Sims being seen as a pinnacle of ace representation, because quite frankly, he is not. I will grant that the show handles Jon as a character very well, and avoids falling into several bad tropes with ace/ace-coded characters. but how his asexuality itself was handled leaves some things to be desired.

the actual words “asexual” or “ace” are never used during the actual episodes. the only time it is ever touched upon is Melanie and Basira gossiping in episode 106, and it’s Melanie repeating information from Georgie that Jon “doesn’t [have sex]”. so not only do we not hear this from Jon himself, the person who brings it up doesn’t actually have any real knowledge about this.

I get that it can be awkward to have a character outright state their sexuality, especially in a conversation, so I can understand why the actual word may not have been used. but we get no other hints that Jon is asexual. no black ring. no finding the idea of sexual attraction confusing- the closest is probably when Tim assumes Basira and Jon are hooking up, but Jon’s insistence that this isn’t the case could easily be read as him just not being attracted to Basira specifically. there are moments that do read differently once we know Jon is ace, but actual coding of him as asexual is next to nonexistent.

there is no mention of Jon’s asexuality once he and Martin are officially together, which I find odd. does Martin even know Jon is asexual? possibly not.

so, to recap: Jon’s asexuality is addressed a grand total of once, by someone else repeating vague secondhand information, and then never touched on again, not even once Jon is in a romantic relationship.

the fact that an ace character exists at all in this show is amazing, I won’t deny that. but at the same time, asexuals, and the aspec community as a whole, deserve better than that. TMA is a good starting point, but it is certainly not the peak of this kind of representation.

we can, and should, enjoy having an asexual protagonist in Jonathan Sims. but we can, and should, acknowledge the room for improvement that exists.

#Arin rambles #tma #do not archive #jonathan sims #asexual #long post

[mirrorofliterature]

What also rather galls, as an aroace person, about the Peter headcanon is that a certain character is right there, who is canonically shown to ignore the interest of women in favor of giving a thumbs up to his best friend and who is completely defined by his platonic relationships, never showing any interest in anyone romantically in canon, but because he’s hot and well liked, by the fandom that headcanon is almost non-existent for him.

bold question to ask a wolfstar shipper.

okay, but in all seriousness, your anger and frustration are completely valid. before I started shipping wolfstar (which was like, a year ago) and latched onto it [remus lupin is one of my favourite characters & the sheer tragedy, also prefer friends to lovers], I firmly headcanoned sirius as aroace in my head. I really enjoy fic where he is written as ace or aro spec, as I think it really does fit with his character. Outside of wolfstar, I prefer him to be written as aroace than anything else: hence my legendary 'my imagination does not extend to a world where sirius black is straight', even though widely tagged with wolfstar [which, valid], also wholeheartedly and equally applies to aroace sirius. also, fandom peeps, being m|m and a-spec are far from mutually exclusive, which about 90% of you tend to forget.

fandom as a whole has an issue of prioritising romantic love over anything else and treating m|m or w|w as the top tier queer dynamic and completely ignoring a-spec identities and treating them like queer lite, which is completely problematic. made a rant post about that a few months ago.

being mad about inadequate aspec representation is a running theme for me. join the club!

I think, just like I am a multi-shipper, I also fully support and enjoy differing interpretations of characters' sexual and gender identities. say, for example, izzy lightwood, who I've written as aro pansexual and as sapphic. both equally valid!

also, aroace men and gay men and aroace women and lesbians share quite a bit in common, often defined by their absence of attraction. people tend to forget that. aroace headcanons do not take away from that representation, ffs. it's necessary and complementary. see: elsa from frozen, who is widely headcanoned as a lesbian and aroace, or artemis, etc.

people have trouble seeing conventionally attractive people and, consequently, characters, as aromantic and asexual and have incredible difficulty respecting their identities and self-determination: the backlash yasmin benoit has experienced is a prime example.

so, in short, marauders fandom, you know what to do! you're such virulent multishippers; try exploring a-spec identities once in a while. maybe even throw in an aroace sirius in there! not everyone needs to be partnered off, either, and it's not a 'tragedy' if it doesn't happen, you amatonormative fucks.

anyway, stop using widely loathed peter pettigrew as your token representation, thank you and good night.

.

Mini Rec List of some a-spec Sirius Black, because we deserve it:

the unrequited and the loveless (aroace sirius)

Everything is right (ace sirius, chef's kiss)

That's about all I've read, as you've rightly identified, it's not a widespread headcanon. But yeah. Not everything is romantic. Sometimes it's just platonic.

And people need to learn to accept that.

#sirius black #hp #peter pettigrew #aromantic #asexual #representation #lack thereof #marauders #*pokes the hornet's nest* stop being aphobic #I ship wolfstar and I also wholeheartedly support aroace sirius black rights I see no contradiction

[kitkatt0430]

B, N, U and Z for the fandom ask game please 👀

B - A pairing you initially didn’t consider but someone changed your mind

Harrisco actually. Its so obvious to me now, but it was seeing the fandom edits and the like here on tumblr that made me go 'huh, I should check this ship out' and then I went and devoured basically everything for the ship on Ao3 at the time. And then started writing for the ship myself.

N - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice)

Well, in general terms, I wish I saw more aro headcanons from non-aspec people. I'm starting to see more of that to some degree but when I'm in the mood for aro characters the pickings are slim in fandom even when there's a canonically aro character. Or possibly especially when there's a canonically aro character? It's kinda gotten to where every time we get a canonically aro character in a show I wind up avoiding that fandom for a while because there's an uptick of allos going 'well actually what if i ship them romantically and ignore their queer identity anyway because fandom is boring without shipping' and well how dare I want representation that isn't erased by the fandom huh? (*insert big sigh here*) And that's not even touching what happens if you happen to mention headcanoning as aro a character who is popularly headcanoned as gay/lesbian but doesn't actually have a canonical sexuality mentioned. (Looking straight at Luke Skywalker and Queen Elsa.)

I think another thing I wish I saw more of in fandom was acknowledging character faults without it turning into character bashing. It's something I try to balance out in my fics, making space for character flaws to be called out while still showing them learning and growing from that. But I see a lot of fics out there where a single mistake in canon is the basis for damning that character forever and clearly they're secretly an evil monster. Its a phenomenon that happens more in some fandoms than others, but it does pop up everywhere and can be exhausting to run into. Cobra Kai seems to suffer from character bashing a lot in particular, which made my foray into that fandom rather short lived.

In the Flash fandom in particular, I wish there were more Gideon fights back against Eobard fics. It's a fun premise to write and Gideon deserves more love than canon gives her. So I'm always excited when I find that someone else has written her as more than a passive background character. (And then maybe Ao3 would finally stop conflating tags for Gideon on the Flash and Gideon on Legends as being the same character when they aren't...)

U - 5 favorite characters from 5 different fandoms

Yuri Lowell from Tales of Vesperia - He's a vigilante trouble maker who encourages delinquency in his friend Estelle (the Princess) and helps save the world because he's a good person who just wants to protect the people he loves and the world they live in. He's snarky and probably has a jail cell in Zaphias reserved specifically for him and has canonically shoved knights into the fountain for various reasons that had Karol going O_O why??? upon hearing it recounted later. (Yuri - I forgot about that. Still hilarious. *snicker*)

Cisco Ramon from The Flash - Genius mechanical engineer whose greatest power is his imagination because what else would let him create so many amazing inventions? He's steadfast and loyal, probably the kindest person on the show. His hair is amazing - which he knows quite well - and he gets flustered when complimented on it by cute guys. (Leo - Love the hair. Cisco - *blushes*). It's amazing when oblivious show writers think they've written a straight guy, but it's actually a character who is intensely bisexual.

Atton Rand from Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords - Snarky former Sith accidentally finds atonement and joins the rebooting of the Jedi. Or rejoins the Sith depending on the path you take in the game. Are you good or evil? Atton Rand is ride or die for you either way. Also there's a chance that he'll make fun of the 'are you an angel' line from The Phantom Menace and that cracks me up.

Bastila Shan from Knights of the Old Republic - She's very much the stereotypical uptight Jedi and it's actually no real surprise when she falls to the Dark Side (briefly or not depending on your actions in the game) but she's a lot of fun when she actually lets loose. It's interesting to see her learn to relax and make friends and drop the holier than though attitude the Jedi hammered into her. She just very much wants to be a good person and protect others. And if you play with her as the love interest (default love interest for guys, mods to unlock her for the ladies) then it is absolutely hilarious to hear her say 'shut up and kiss me, you fool'.

Zelos Wilder from Tales of Symphonia - Tragic backstory? Check. Covering his crippling depression with jokes and innuendoes? Check. Struggles to open up to his friends and be honest about his feelings? Check. Triple agent causing headaches for everyone? Triple check. But if you get him the highest relationship values he demonstrates he may actually be gay or bi as he hits on Lloyd ("put on a show that'll make me fall in love" is not a straight thing for him to say to Lloyd... at all) and there a scene that will only change if he has the highest values at that point in the game - the rest of the scenes are different depending on every character, not just him.

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go (prompts optional but encouraged)

Tales of Symphonia was the first game I played where player choices affected the game itself. While the game's ending doesn't really change, there are scenes in the game itself that are different based on the hidden relationship values system. I had no idea about this first time through and got Colette every time, but I learned about the hidden system as I started branching into fandom spaces and did replays with Raine, Genis, Presea, Kratos... and Zelos (sorry, Regal, I was just... uh, not super interested in you, my dude) and it was really Zelos who captivated me the most. And he's queer coded, heavily so, so I suppose it's really no surprise I adore the redheaded, gender non-conforming menace.

It was really my first real venture into fandom spaces beyond just fanfic too, so Tales of Symphonia is very near and dear to my heart for all sorts of reasons. I read a lot of fan theories about the game, but was still at a point where I was way too timid to really contribute my own too much. High school me was definitely struggling with self confidence at the time.

I've got a lot of headcanons for the game which have changed to some degree or other over time, so with the game's HD re-release happening in, like, three days, I've decided the time has come for a replay and I'm really hoping to see a bit of a fandom boom happening as new players discover this game and people who haven't played in a while rediscovering their love for it. Might be time to dust off my old fics, go on an editing spree, and start posting them on Ao3.

(So if you're reading this and considering picking up a new game to play... Tales of Symphonia. You know you wanna.)

#kitkatt0430 answers #fandom meme #ask meme

[soulless-bex]

Hello! This may seem very out of the blue, but I was looking up posts about aroace rep in media and saw one that you had written so wanted to ask your opinion on something if you don't mind! (There's no pressure to answer this by any means.)

I'm in the very early days of planning a thriller/detective kind of graphic novel and I've got two main characters who are fleshing out at the moment. One of whom is an aroace guy! I'm yet to decide whether I want there to be any direct address to his identity but I do know that I want it to be evident from the start, and I'm gonna have him wear an aroace flag badge because he's very comfortable and proud of it. As for his character, he's quite grumpy and sarcastic and enjoys telling people where they can stick it. (There's more to him, don't worry, but that's an overview.)

The other character I have is his best friend. More characters are going to be introduced pretty early on and will become just as central but these are the two we begin with. The rest of the crew will have various romances mixed in here and there, including one with aroace guy's best friend.

Now here comes the bombshell. I'm planning on killing aroace guy. IS THIS A BAD DESCISION? IS IT TOO MEAN TO KILL HIM OFF? The thing is, I know somebody needs to die and from the start I've known it would work well with his character for him to die after some time in an escape with the rest of the group. But I'm worried that it's a cruel blow to the aspec community to give them a canonically aroace character only for him to die. I don't want to push the idea that aro and/or ace characters can't have happy endings because they won't necessarily have a Somebody to end up with. However, I do want to explore the intense grief that the rest of the characters experience because of this person's death, especially his best friend. I think it could be important to show the amount of love in and around his life despite him being aroace. He won't just be forgotten about - in fact I intend for his death to heavily contribute to his best friend's character arc after it happens and he'll be directly referenced a lot afterwards.

Still, I'm concerned if this is still a bad choice, and one that people might be upset about if they read it. Am I pulling a Netflix writer move by doing this? You know like when they always kill off the lesbians? If you have any opinions on this it would be amazing if you could let me know from an aroace person's point of view! Tysm x

honestly, as long as it is important to the plot and the continuation of the story then it should be fine. i dont have your draft or anything so i don’t know what you’re planning on doing for sure, but as long as it doesn’t read as you getting rid of the character/killing the character for fun then you should go with it

some people might have a different opinion, but i firmly believe that if the only representation a minority gets ends up being the good guy that lives happily ever after, then it defeats the whole purpose. those characters, even if they’re apart of a minority group, are still, most of the time anyway, human. they will make mistakes, they will be mean, they will walk down a dark path, and yeah, they will die

i think it only really becomes problematic if the characters that represent said minority are continuously killed for seemingly no reason. to add representation only to say your stories are diverse and then kill them off is when it becomes an issue

but if, as you said, it makes sense for that character to die and then helps further the character development of other characters, then you shouldn’t let their identity stop you from writing what you want

and honestly, i’d rather have dead representation than no representation at all

#i dont know if this was of any use lmao #i feel like i only repeated myself #but yeah go ahead and write what you feel is right #sure it might be a bit touchy and scary but i wouldn’t worry about that too much #as long as you write it properly (sorry if that feels like i’m giving you an impossible task lmao) it should go well #aroace representation #aro #aroace #aromantism #aromantic #ace #asexuality #asexual representation #aromantic representation #actually aromantic #actually asexual #writerscommunity #writing advice #and a piece of advice. i would make it obvious that they’re aroace. our characters are often ’stolen’ by others #otherwise your character sounds incredibly great so far #do keep me updated #i’m invested

[arodabi]

okay, i’m finally getting around to writing this, and uhh ill say its for aro week too. this is written as an aro person directed at alloromantic people. when i refer to writing, i’m kind of using it as a general term for creative works. Here’s me throwing my hat in on the question:

Can you ship aromantic characters?

and my answer is,,,,, actually a question. Why do you want to ship aromantic characters? 

I want alloros to realize that for a lot of aros, we do not get to see ourselves represented often. I can actually count on like one hand how many popular canon aro characters there are, and on the whole, none of their identities are respected. people constantly try to weasel their way out of actually writing aro characters, or they just ignore or deny their identity outright. fandom spaces (hell creative spaces in general) are at best not welcoming to aros, and at worst actively hostile towards us. So when the first question brought up when a character gets canonically confirmed as aro is “okay cool but can i ship them???” or “that’s nice but how can i still write about my fave ship that involves them??” i want to fucking scream. its a slap to the face and it shows that people really do not give a shit about aros. you say stuff like that and all i hear is “my fictional ship is so much more important than representing your marginalized minority identity” so instead of me just sitting here and saying “yes you can totally ship aro characters, as long as you’re respectful!!!” i’m saying “can you stop and think why you want to shove an aro character into a romantic relationship at the first chance you get?? maybe you have some arophobia you haven’t worked on?? maybe since we live in an amatonormative world, you’re letting that influence your views??” because that question being the first thing out of your mouth when you see a character you like confirmed as aro? that’s already disrespectful towards aros in my book.

So back to my question, Why do you want to ship aromantic characters? is it because you can’t write characters without them being in romantic relationships? or because you think a character without a romantic relationship is boring? Because if so, that’s a bad reason and it sounds like amatonormativity is rotting your brain. 

Is it because you just really like a ship with the aro character? Because you can write two characters with a strong relationship without writing them as a couple. A strong friendship can hold just as much power as a romantic relationship.

Is it because fuck aros, i will write what I wanna write and I don't wanna write this character with their canon identity? because then you’re just an arophobic asshole that needs to work on your shitty opinions. aro representation is just as important as any other lgbtqia+ representation.

Now if you’re reading this and thinking “well i heard aros can be in queerplatonic relationships!” I want you to think for a second. Are you writing a qpr or are you writing a romantic relationship with the serial numbers filed off? Have you talked to aro people or read stuff actually written by us? because, yes, some qprs can look a lot like a romantic relationship from the outside, but that’s just it, you’re looking at it from the outside. qprs are more than just “romantic relationship with extra steps”, and i think it’s really telling how many times i see alloromantic people saying they’re depicting an aro character in a qpr, not a romantic relationship, but then they never ever make any effort to distinguish the qpr from any other romantic relationship they write or draw. It just feels like qprs are getting used by alloros as a gatcha any time an aro person objects to how they depict (or don’t depict) aromanticism. if you want to write a character in a qpr then go for it! but you need to actually do research, talk to aros, get multiple opinions and not just take the first opinion that agrees with you and run with it.

“But what about headcanoning a character as arospec?” now i will say before i go into this, i am aro, not arospec, so if an arospec person wants to come in and correct me at any part here im happy to listen. but my problem when alloros bring up arospec identities is a very similar problem to how qprs are often depicted. I remember when Peridot Stevenuniverse got confirmed aro (she did, do not argue this with me) people were jumping over themselves to assure everyone that “a character getting confirmed as aro just means they are any arospec identity” which,, uhh,, not true? i mean if an arospec person wants to see a canon aro character as, say, aroflux, i’ve got no problem, aro and arospec people can do what they want really. but, i do have a problem with all the alloro fans who were spreading this. because, do you really see the character as demiromantic? or are you using that identity to deflect criticism from erasing aro identities? are you actually trying to write a good depiction of a demiro person? or are you just writing normal ship stuff and slapping a “uwu ive never felt romantic attraction until i met you! and now i will act exactly like any alloromantic person!” at the beginning? being in fandom spaces, i do see the occasional fic actually depicting an aspec identity (i say aspec her because aro is so rare that most of these examples i’ve seen have been acespec identities rather than arospec) but like 99% of the time, that’s written by someone who actually shares the identity. before you use our terms and identities to cover your ass when you erase us, consider not fucking doing that. consider listening to all aros and getting our thoughts and input. 

And last here is “but what about romance positive aros?” now i think most of what i’ve said previously can be applied here. the only thing i wanna add is, i think its very interesting that almost every time i see non aros depict aros, they always write them as very into romance, very open to be in romantic relationships, and very quiet about their aro identity. despite the character in canon not showing any of these traits. romance positive aros are good and important, but not every aro is romance positive. there’s quite a few of us that are romance repulsed, and alloros only depicting aros as super romance positive no matter what is suspicious to say the least. if an aro character is shown to be open to participating in romantic activities in canon then of course write them that way. but if an aro character is shown to be uninterested in, or even actively against romantic activities then respect that too.

so, to wrap up my thoughts in this ramble: please ask yourself why you want to ship aro characters so bad, because if the only reason is that amatonormativity has brainwashed you into not being able to write, or draw, or do anything with a character without them being in a romantic relationship, then you uhhh need to work on that, that’s honestly a writing/creative flaw imo. if you like the relationship dynamic between an aro character and another character, consider making them friends. friendship is not less powerful than romantic relationships. nobody is ever too old for the power of friendship trope. If you’re erasing an aro character’s identity because fuck aros, then fuck off somewhere far away from me and work on your bullshit. qprs, arospec identities, and romance positive aros are all very real, very important parts of the aro community, but please talk to other aros about them and actually make an effort to understand how these things work, dont just assume. And also don’t use these things as a way to erase aro identities and cover your ass if get called out. its disrespectful towards all aros.

The most important thing to do before writing or creating work with aro characters is to talk to aros, and not just the aros that agree with you. look up what a qpr actually is, learn how aros experience their arospec identities, talk to aros with multiple outlooks on romance. and if you can’t bring yourself to reach out, at least read through our own writings, whether that’s fiction, or informational posts, fuck, look through our memes if u wanna. Just please actually make an effort.

So, Can you ship aro characters? its complicated. look at trends in your fandom, question why you want to, and do research. Be an aro ally, listen to us. That’s really the most important thing.

#oh wow this got long #hope this helps #aromantic #aro #writing #shipping #now to tag fandoms unfortunatly #critical role #caduceus clay #steven universe #peridot #su peridot #hazbin hotel #alastor #thats honestly all the popular characters i can thing of that are canon aro #ofc this goes for nonpopular characters too but i dont wanna hunt all of those down #so im just getting the big names #hope this doesnt get blacklisted for being tagged w hazbin and su lol rip #fandom #fanfiction #fanfic #long post

[solreefs]

The Beauty of Unlabeled Things: Your Local Nonbinary Aro-Spec’s Take on Aziraphale and Crowley

or alternatively, Oh My Fucking God Stop With the Good Omens Queerbaiting Discourse Already

*disclaimer: shipping these two is not inherently aphobic or transphobic. that being said, if you romantically ship them purely because you think of them as not queer enough in canon, or don’t consider nb or aspec people queer, with all due disrespect, fuck you.*

Let’s start with the obvious: Good Omens is a comedy about an angel and a demon trying to stop the apocalypse, not a romance novel. It has never been sold or summarized as a romance novel. You were never promised a romantic relationship. Remember that.

Crowley and Aziraphale are presented to us as, quote, “men, or at least men-shaped creatures, of the world”. The implication being, they’re supernatural divine beings, so while they might like to look like men, but do they really have time for our human concepts of gender? Probably not. They have bigger things to worry about anyway. So right off the bat, we’re told we can’t put human labels on these two, because they’re not human. It just doesn’t work. It’s like trying to classify humans as dog breeds. Yes, you can match up some traits, but fundamentally, such labels are incorrect, and always will be.

And that ambiguity carries over to their relationship with each other. The best part of their relationship is that it has no definitive labels other than “an Arrangement”. They care for each other, and see no need to define what they have beyond that. Why do they need to explain it to other people? Isn’t the fact that this relationship works for them the most important part? They don’t need to care what other people think. And therein lies the beauty of this relationship, and in a way, of this book as a whole.

Good Omens was not written to be the beloved cultural phenomenon it has become. If you read the forward of the book, it was just a fun summer project. As such, it wasn’t written with other people’s opinions in mind. It is a weird, funny, and at times strangely thought-provoking book that simply does what it does, without much care for explaining itself any more than is necessary to tell a good story. Things don’t always need labels, or lengthy explanations, or to fit into neat little socially acceptable boxes of conventionality, and Good Omens is a book that celebrates that.

How quickly so many people forget the inherent queerness of unlabeled relationships, people and beings of ambiguous genders, and love that doesn’t quite fit into a neat, acceptable, nicely defined category. When you say “is Good Omens gay?”, what it sounds like to me is “this is a romance between two cisgender men, right?” It sounds like nonbinary and aromantic erasure. It sounds like ignoring the beauty of queer as an ambiguous, unifying label of all that falls outside the heterosexual, heteromantic, cisgender norm of today’s society. Quite fucking frankly, it sounds like entitlement and ignorance.

Unlabeled queer people are queer. Aro people are queer. Nonbinary people are queer. Not every queer relationship has to be romantic in nature. There are other kinds of queer representation besides kissing and romance that are just as important. Good Omens was not sold as a gay romance novel, stop treating it like one. And as a nonbinary aro-spec person, I am so tired of the way the internet treats people like me in fiction.

I also want to close with this Twitter thread, which encapsulates my thoughts on the ship itself quite nicely:

[ID: A Twitter thread that reads as follows:

Beans Turnip (@Hatpire): So, @neilhimself, they’re gay, right? :D

Neil Gaiman (@neilhimself): They’re an angel and a demon, not male humans.

🖤Rhiannon🖤 (@GoodnightSkye): Okay, but they love each other, right? :D

Neil Gaiman (@neilhimself): Absolutely.

End ID]

#this is the promised arophobia rant #no i don’t know why the screenshot has the language set to german #i didn’t take it i found it in an article #good omens #good omens discourse #discourse #ceres reads good omens #*swings bat at hornets nest* #come and get me fools #Ceres rants

[arotechno]

Jughead (2015), Issues 7-8: Discussion and Commentary

Boy oh boy am I excited to talk about this arc!! These two issues hold a very special place in my cold little aro heart.

(By the way, do you see that? I managed to get a digital copy from my library via Hoopla, which means you are spared from my shitty phone grabs. I’ll fix the previous post, don’t worry. Try clicking on the screenshots if tumblr blurs them. And try Hoopla, if you’ve got a library card and have been looking to read these.)

Fed up with him sitting around the house playing video games all summer, Mr. Jones forces Jughead to get out of the house and do something outside. Jughead finds Archie at the pool where he’s working as a lifeguard, and convinces him to take time off to go camping in the woods with him at their friend Dilton’s cottage.

They take Archie’s car out to the woods, only to find that the lake is overrun with Reggie’s over-the-top relatives at the Mantle family reunion. Horrified, Jughead and Archie go out on a hike to get away. This is where things go downhill—literally.

Jughead calls Archie out for his growing fixation with Veronica Lodge, whose father is the one trying to clear out Fox Forest. Archie immediately goes on the defensive, but Jughead, understandably, really doesn’t get it. And here’s where we see that this is a divide that has been brewing between them for quite some time, even if Archie seemingly had no idea it was happening.

The boys end up getting lost, which only serves to fuel their frustrations. It occurs to Jughead, some time later, that the lake they’re camping at is not that far from Camp Lucey, an all-girls summer camp. Shocked and hurt, he accuses Archie of only agreeing to go on the trip to pick up girls, and not to hang out with him. He tackles Archie and they tumble down a hill into the woods below.

This is a really interesting story, from an aro’s perspective. Jughead can’t relate to Archie’s teenage obsession with girls, and it isn’t something they can bond over like other friends may have been able to do. On a simple level, all Jughead really wants to do is hang out with his best friend, just the two of them, just like old times—back when they were younger, before Archie’s interest in girls seemed to take over his every waking moment. Importantly, Jughead never objects to Archie’s romantic pursuits on principle (he does have an issue with Veronica, but that has to do more with her father’s actions than her). It isn’t that he wants to stand in the way of Archie’s happiness—he just feels left behind, and that’s something I think a lot of aromantic people, teenagers especially, can resonate with.

Eventually, Archie and Jughead run into Mr. Weatherbee of all people, who begrudgingly offers to help lead them back to camp. It’s at this point that we get one of my favorite moments in the entire series, one that I have waxed poetic about on this blog before and probably will again.

Archie insists that he is in fact here to hang out with Jughead, and that he’s just being dramatic. Jughead, on the other hand, insists that Archie’s the one being dramatic with his love triangle problems, to which Archie replies:

“Look, I’m not going to apologize for being a normal guy, I—”

And Jughead’s reaction to those words has stuck with me since the first time I read this. He’s shocked, hurt, and clearly a little angry that Archie would say something like that. And it’s a subtle moment, one that you might not even feel the gravity of if you didn’t know that Jughead was aro. What’s most important here, though, isn’t Jughead’s reaction, but the fact that Archie is clearly in the wrong, and he knows it. He tries to backtrack immediately (“Jughead! I didn’t mean it like that! Wait!”), but Jughead ignores him, as Mr. Bee has already gotten them lost again.

This singular page is, to me, a deeper and more nuanced portrayal than many works with “on-the-page” canon aromantic characters. This arc isn’t about Jughead being aro (in fact, none of the comics particularly are). But this is a meaningful incorporation of Jughead’s orientation into his daily life and his relationships with other people—namely, with his best friend. Although Jughead is being somewhat harsh with Archie, never does the narrative place him in the wrong for feeling abandoned, hurt, or angry because of Archie’s words and actions. Even Archie, his best friend, is capable of saying things that hurt him, and his words in this scene are never excused or justified by the narrative.

It also means a lot to me that Archie apologizes the second he gets the chance to, and that Jughead is quick to forgive him and explain that he just misses the time before Archie was so obsessed with girls. I wouldn’t want the story to just turn into a feud between them. You know when you’re on a trip with your friends and you get lost and you’re tired and frustrated you just end up airing your grievances and coming out of it with a new understanding of your friendship while trying to solve the mess you’re in? That’s what this arc is.

Anyway, after a run-in with Reggie’s relative and Mr. Weatherbee’s old high school bully Ted Mantle, the trio manage to make it out of the woods—after several hours of walking until the sun has come up. There, they find that Camp Lucey has actually been renamed, and is now a camp for elementary school girls, where Betty happens to be working. So after all of that, Archie just ends up making a fool of himself, like usual. Mr. Bee’s wife drives over to rescue them and brings the boys back to Dilton’s cottage, where she remarks that she’s heard a lot about Archie and Jughead, and that they’re inseparable.

At its core, this is a story about friendship. It’s about the difficulties that come with realizing you can’t always relate to each other, and you can’t always read each other’s minds, and you sometimes say the wrong thing without meaning to. It’s a story about growing up, but not necessarily growing apart, and being able to reconcile your differences.

Archie assumes that after all of their bickering, Jughead would just want to go home and not hang out with him anymore. But turning back now would be contrary to what Jughead wanted in the first place, which was just to hang out with his best friend.

All’s well that end’s well, and Jughead and Archie patch things over and vow that they will always be best friends. It’s a wholesome moment, and reflects a common struggle for aspec teens that I rarely see addressed in media, if at all. Sometimes, it feels like your friends are all moving on without you, and sometimes they don’t even realize it when they’ve been neglecting your friendship. It takes communication to work these things out, and I’m happy to see that illustrated here.

This arc is my favorite, I think, and there’s reasons for that even outside of the aspects I’ve already detailed here. The kids getting lost in the woods on summer vacation is a fun way of framing the deeper story, and there are a lot of funny and endearing moments in these two issues. (Archie falls on his face, a lot, and Mr. Weatherbee is stoically exasperated with both of their antics.)

These are the last issues written by Chip Zdarsky. So shoutout to him for some of the most nuanced representations of aromanticism in fiction to date, even if he never wrote the word down on the page (I’ll get to that, don’t worry). But these are the first issues illustrated by Derek Charm, whose art style I love (no offense Erica Henderson), and the rest of the volume has a lot of other good aro moments in store. Until then, here’s himbo Archie:

See? Pure of heart, dumb of ass. You can’t be mad at him for long. (He falls into a hole later on the same page.)

Yeah, me too.

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