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mischief-lies-and-stories · 9 months

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Loki Ships

All right, I think it’s time to jump into the inevitable, since ships can make or break whether or not some people care what I have to say, and I get it. I considered including them in my pinned post, but that was already way too long.

I ship Loki with a lot of people. The first time I heard the term fandom bicycle, a friend was using it to refer to Loki, and I took it to heart (and probably also a challenge). As I said in my pinned post, though, I mostly ship Loki with guys, since his canon women love interests are often kind of shitty to him. This doesn’t deter me from the potential of shipping him with women (I acknowledge and celebrate that he’s bi/pan, after all) but the women that he’s around tend to be assholes to him, so the men kind of have to pick up the slack. (Is the assholery deserved? Yeah, sometimes. But I also like the idea of people being soft with him. And I think he deserves that sometimes, too.)

So I’m going to explain a little bit about the ship in general, why I ship it personally, and the canon likelihood of it, whether or not it’s likely to become canon in comics or the MCU or both or neither. Also spoilers for Where Mischief Lies, The Defenders (1983), The Defenders (2021), and Defenders: Beyond.

Thorki: Might as well start with my most divisive ship, though if you read my Loki playlist post, you’ll already know I ship this. I believe this is the first person I came to ship with Loki. This is obviously Thor and Loki, and I get it. I do. I am not here to defend my questionable taste at all. I am not here to make the flimsy arguments people sometimes make for this ship, like that he’s adopted so “they aren’t really siblings, so it’s not really incest.” I think that’s damn rude to people who are adopted and have adoptive siblings. Frankly, these are fictional characters who are fictionally siblings and I know the difference between fiction and reality. Am I supportive of IRL incest? Not particularly, no. But Loki and Thor are not real (and thank God for that; Loki would annoy the hell out of me). So I’m not here to defend it. I just think that they have a lot of chemistry, and a lot of romantic and sexual tension. Especially in Thor: Ragnarok. Like towards the end, they have this whole conversation about how Loki belongs on Sakaar, how he can flourish there and rule over Sakaar and it would be the ideal place for him. And both of them (at least verbally) agree that this is the case. And then Thor leaves him basically seizing from electric shock on the floor of a hangar. And then the next time we see Loki, he has come back to Asgard anyway, to help Thor save the people. And if that’s not love (familial, romantic, whatever), I don’t know what is.

Canon Likelihood…….Unlikely.

Not even possible, it’s never going to happen. In the comics, not a chance. In the MCU, not a chance. Marvel’s never going to make incest happen, especially not with Disney as their parent company. And frankly, I don’t want them to. I don’t trust them to do this right or be sensitive about it. They will never not be able to spin it as some shocking joke no matter how serious they pretend to be about it, if they ever were to do it. And with the level of backlash that would happen because of it, it wouldn’t be worth it. So I’m just content to read and write fanfic and look at fanart. I don’t need it to be canon and it’s never going to be canon and that’s okay. Sometimes that’s okay.

Theoki: Theo Bell (from Loki: Where Mischief Lies) and Loki. Theo Bell (as I’ve said previously) is gay, very snarky and is a good match personality-wise for Loki in the novel, he walks with a cane as a result of becoming disabled due to a homophobic attack, and he works essentially for Odin on Midgard (but Odin really only calls on him and his coworkers when he really needs something, like when he needs something for his younger son to do when he exiles him to Earth). This is speed-run Enemies-to-Lovers. They don’t like each other at first, mostly because Loki does not want to be there. And Theo’s basically like ‘You don’t want to be here, got it. You’re here, though, so let’s deal with this.’ And then pretty quickly Loki’s like, ‘Oh shit. He’s hot…Oh shit. He’s smart… Oh shit. Do I like him?….Oh shit. His freckles are like stars.’ (He thinks the last sentence almost exactly, it’s wild.) So I think it’s very cute and I don’t think they got enough time together.

Canon likelihood…….Depends on your definition of canon.

Did they kiss? Spoiler alert: Yes. Are they together? Well, uh, about that… So this book is supposed to serve as a prequel to the events in the MCU. Do you see Theo anywhere in the MCU? There’s your answer. (Which sounds like I’m implying something different, so you should still read this book, because you don’t know what’s going to happen.) So at this point, at this time, is it likely that this relationship is going to come back and be 100% canon? No. Not likely. But in my opinion, how I define canon, has this ship been canonized? I generally define canon as requited affection that’s acted upon, so Yes, this was a canon ship to me. (Still hoping my unlikely Loki theories are true, though, so this ship can come back and be present tense canon.) I wish this could be an established relationship right now, but given the circumstances of the events of the story and the purpose the story is supposed to serve in the MCU, it’s not possible.

Lokius: Loki and Mobius, from the tv series. I was resistant to this for a little while. Mostly I was finding Owen Wilson in the MCU in general and interacting with Loki hard to believe. It was weird to me and I could not unsee Owen Wilson for a chunk of the show, and that’s partially what was preventing me from shipping it. But the tie fixing scene, while it wasn’t what got me to ship it, it did make me go Oh, fuck. This is going to end with me shipping this. And then I continued to resist it for a few episodes, and then it hit me, and now I’ve been bitten by the Lokius bug. I don’t remember precisely what was the turning point for me, but it was late. I think it was probably “You could be whoever, whatever you want to be. Even someone good.” I think they’re perfect together. I think it’s an interesting dynamic, because Mobius knows him so well. But at the beginning, he knows Loki from this clinical standpoint. He knows how Loki’s story is supposed to go and his personality, from studying versions of him, but he doesn’t know him. And then spending the show getting to know Loki himself. I think they neglected somewhat to show this on a nuanced level in the show itself, but the working relationship and budding friendship between Loki and Mobius is what ultimately gets Mobius to realize that the TVA is kind of crap and needs to be shut down because the TVA doesn’t know everything. Because he gets to know Loki as a person, that he’s not just a story or the predetermined events that have been laid out in the timeline by some higher power, just because that’s how Kang has decided that’s how he wants Loki’s life to go (or something to that effect). I think there’s something inherently interesting about taking how you understand someone from a general, macro level and thinking you know everything about that person, and then getting to know someone on a more personal and intimate basis. At the risk of perpetuating a sort of racist rewrite of historical events, it’s kind of reminiscent of Disney’s Pocahontas in a way. Where you have these assumptions about a person or group of people based on what you’ve been told by your superiors, but by getting to know a particular individual in that group, you change your preconceived notions about that person. And then taking it a step further into a romantic level.

Canon likelihood…….Likely

I think they fucked up in season one. And I think they know they fucked up. I’m sorry if people ship the other thing (I’m trying not to type the ship name so it doesn’t come up in searches and people think I tagged my hate.), this is not the place for you. I think they fucked up where they were like “Look, we’re so progressive! Here’s two bisexual characters.” And then they were like “No homo. Here’s some selfcest instead.” And obviously Loki can have a girlfriend and I’d be fine with that, but making that woman love interest a variant, essentially just an alternate version of him? That feels like they only let Loki say “A bit of both,” so they could pat themselves on the back. They didn’t want to act on that. But the only woman who makes any sense to pair him with, with whom he has the most interaction with in the series…is himself. But they went with that anyway.

So the level of likelihood is either one, they realized they fucked up and now they’re going to fix it. Or two, (and I don’t think they have enough foresight for this) they knew they fucked up before they even aired it, and are like “This is the journey that Loki is on. He will eventually break away from himself, and fall in love with somebody who is not himself.” Or three, not understand what bisexuality is and be like “We need equal! He kissed a girl and now he’s gotta kiss a guy!” [Which implies there are only two genders, but they don’t even know what genderfluidity is, so I’m not confident they have any understanding of the diversity of gender identity either.] So I think it’s likely (especially the last option, unfortunately, given their track record with representation). I’m not sure they’re going to do it well, but I think it’s possible. I think they’ve set it up well for this to be canon. I think there’s some romcom story beats that are already present in season one, despite their decision to go with a different ship. It’s just a matter of how much they’re willing to break out of this mold of heteronormativity.

Frostiron: Tony Stark and Loki. I like this because I am partial to Enemies to Lovers tropes. I think the fandom has done a really good job of taking like two minutes of onscreen interaction and making an entire ship out of it. I think they have a lot of things in common, which can help them bond. They both have daddy issues, they’re both kind of spoiled, and a little self-centered, which can cause some conflict that will eventually be resolved. And they both have quite a bit of trauma that’s ultimately caused by the same big purple asshole, so that can also bring them closer together. I have a lot of feelings about them, which has caused me to write a six-part series about them and their relationship and how they can relate to each other. (I’ve attempted a few times to write a seventh part, so we’ll see if that ever sees the light of day, but they have certainly not relinquished their hold on me.)

Canon Likelihood…….Not likely.

Absolutely not likely, not a chance. Comics, no. MCU, no. In the MCU they had like a two-minute interaction and that was it. It was cute, they were snarking at each other, Tony offered him a drink, but that was about it. In the comics, they have a little bit more interactions but it’s still very limited. The most I know about their interactions in the comics that are not antagonistic comes from (I believe) The God Who Fell to Earth, and there’s still not a whole lot. There is some explicit dialogue of Tony respecting Loki’s pronouns, so that’s chill. Tony knows that Loki’s genderfluid, so I like that. But again, that’s about it. Ultimately, the places were Tony and Loki have the most interaction are in Avengers Academy, the mobile game, and I don’t believe there are romance options for anybody in that game (I didn’t play that game for very long, so I don’t remember much; there was too much multitasking and it was stressing me out). And in the animated tv show Avengers Assemble, and even there it was only like an episode or two. (And in later seasons, Tony isn’t even in much of the show, let alone Loki.) So I don’t think it’s likely we’ll ever see a canon frostiron, unless we get like an episode (or issue) of What If that’s like, “What If…Tony Stark was gay” or something, but that’s both unlikely and I can think of several characters more likely to be Tony’s What If boyfriend before Loki.

Cloudki: This is a ship name I made up on the spot, because no one else knows who this character is. (And that hurts me, deeply.) Cloud has a fraught history in the comics, and ultimately, it’s not much of a history at all, they’re in maybe three stories since their debut in 1983. Cloud is basically the personification of a cloud nebula (hence why they’re called Cloud), and they’re genderfluid! Primarily because, when they made their debut in the eighties, they crash landed to earth and then their essence combined with the dying souls of this straight couple whose car they crashed into. And the essence of the star lost their memory and decided to take on the couple’s likeness and sort of absorb their souls so they could survive on earth. And the comic, while weirdly progressive for the time, was still published in the eighties. So you have to get past the Comics Code Authority or whatever it’s called (which is basically censoring anything it considers remotely queer), and also it’s the eighties and the author was cis and (I’m pretty sure) straight. And I’ve read articles that said he had a friend who was a transwoman, so he was able to get some help maybe (if he asked her). But at the same time, if she’s a transwoman she’s not genderfluid, so it’s not exactly the same thing. So while it’s done surprisingly more sensitively than expected, there is still a lot of transphobia directed at this sweet summer child. And they don’t know any better so they kind of adjust to this shit, so it’s rough.

So that’s Cloud’s debut. It sucks, and we don’t talk about it. But Cloud comes back a few decades later in The Defenders (this is a new run; they also debuted in The Defenders). When last we left them, Cloud had figured out they were a nebula, and people were being kinda shitty to them on earth, so they were like Fuck this, I’m supposed to be a star, good-bye. And so for the last few decades they’ve been in space as their true self. So they get summoned by Dr. Strange to help the Defenders solve a mystery through the cosmos. (Cosmos as in I don’t get this part. So in the comics, the cosmos are like eras of existence in the universe. I think most events take place in like the twelfth or thirteenth cosmos. The Defenders travel backwards through the cosmos through this story.) In the middle of one of the battles, they’re like “Hey, by the way, I would like to go by they/them pronouns.” (Because up until this point they’ve been going by she/her pronouns.) And everyone else is like “Yeah, sure.” And then no one messes up for the rest of the book. Because Al Ewing is the best. And then like halfway through the book, they get to one of the cosmos where the emphasis is like beauty and imagination and color or something. And Cloud is like “I’m going to stay here. This is a good place for me.” And they transform their body into one that they choose, one that is no longer resembling the guy or the girl whose souls they absorbed. And Cloud’s living their best life in this cosmos. And that’s the last we see of Cloud in this book. (And I almost stopped reading the book at this point, because I read Defenders: Beyond first because Loki’s in it, met Cloud, and then read The Defenders, which comes first, just for Cloud because Loki isn’t in this one.)

Then in Defenders: Beyond, Dr. Strange has to call the Defenders together again. But he only calls a few of the original Defenders and the rest are new people. And one of the people he calls is Loki. And this is right where Loki: Agent of Asgard ended. (And thank God for that, because whoever took over for Loki between AoA and DB fucked him up. I don’t know who that was or what that run was or if it was just Thor, because I never read it, but I’m upset by that author and the new Loki that trashed all of his character development. Because Al Ewing did some great things. Okay moving on.) Frankly, I don’t know what the fuck is going on in this book. We’re still traveling through the cosmos, but I’m very confused. I only read this for Loki and then I met Cloud and read Defenders. So they’re going through the cosmos and they get rescued (Loki especially) by the members of the imagination cosmos, and one of the members of the imagination cosmos is still Cloud. This is similar to MCU Frostiron, because Cloud and Loki have a very important conversation towards the end, but that’s about the extent of their interaction.

My reason for shipping these two (since this post is long as fuck, as usual), because I know nothing about Cloud and Cloud is known by nobody but I would die for Cloud I love them so much, is that they’re both genderfluid. And I think gf4gf is a great pairing honestly (I’m not super interested in a relationship myself anymore, but I think the only partner I’d want at this point would also be genderfluid, so I’m projecting a tad). And I think they would be great for each other and I love it. I think Cloud could really help the present Loki come back to himself and deal with these memories that AoA Loki wiped from him so that he could be this stupid Loki that doesn’t have any of the character development, that at the eleventh hour of this book (I think) regained all his memories and now has to deal with it all and defend the cosmos. And also, where the hell is Verity? Ya know? Like, does he remember Verity? How much did he forget? So I think Cloud would be a good help to rehabilitate him and then they fall in love.

Canon likelihood…….Not completely unlikely, things have to happen.

I’m not gonna straight up say unlikely, because things happen in comics all the time. And comics go back and fold in on themselves and change things all the time. So I’m gonna say probably not likely, but maybe. Here are the things that are gonna have to happen in order for this to take place: One, Cloud needs to come back. I think the last time they showed up was in Defenders: Beyond, and that came out last year. Preferably, Al Ewing needs to write Cloud, because Al Ewing is the best and I love him. Two, Loki from Agent of Asgard needs to come back. Loki as it is needs to regain his memories and become the perfect version of himself again. Preferably written by Al Ewing, because Al Ewing is the best and I love him. Three, Cloud and Loki need to be in the same comic at some point. They’re two completely different characters, drawn together by the ties of fate and tarot cards that, for some reason, Dr. Strange has. And also the cosmos (because he didn’t draw Cloud’s tarot in Defenders: Beyond). Therefore, it’s difficult to get them back together, because Cloud isn’t even in this cosmos right now, let alone on the planet, and Loki doesn’t even remember meeting them. Four, Cloud has to have some romantic capabilities. I don’t know what their romantic capabilities are. In their original run, they tried to fall in love with Moondragon, and then also with some other guy (I don’t remember his name). That dude was transphobic as fuck. Moondragon, the second she found out Cloud was genderfluid, became transphobic as fuck, because it was the eighties, and neither of these characters were gay yet. So did that turn Cloud off to romance forever? That was also before Cloud realized they were a cloud nebula; did Cloud realizing that they are technically supposed to be an insentient celestial being turn Cloud off to romance forever? I don’t know. Five, even if Cloud has some capacity of romantic inclination, Cloud and Loki have to be attracted to each other. They have the tiniest of interactions ever, so who’s to say? Certainly not me, except in my fanfictions, which I haven’t written yet, because I don’t know enough about Cloud. So possibly, but unlikely. And that makes me sad.

This is the only ship, besides Lokius, where if it doesn’t become canon, I’m going to be a Victorian heroine wasting away on my fainting couch, because I’m very disappointed.

#loki #loki where mischief lies spoilers #the defenders spoilers #defenders: beyond spoilers #al ewing #thorki #lokius #theoki #theo/loki #thor/loki #cloud/loki #mobius/loki #frostiron #tony/loki

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