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chirpsythismorning · 2 years

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Something we should definitely not overlook, because it feels relevant to birthdaygate, is the individual character posters for season 4.

There's actually even an interview with the Duffer Brothers, where they were asked about this theory:

Though, I should clarify, this interviewer got a few details wrong, as it appears Max was actually looking away from the camera, not directly at it. Not only that, but she also wasn’t the only one to do so. She was one out of four total...

Looking directly at the camera: El, Hopper, Murray, Will, Argyle, Steve, Dustin, Robin, (not shown above: Karen, Lucas, Erica, Nancy, Eddie)

Looking away from the camera, to their left: Joyce, Mike, Jonathon, Max

We could deduce that this visual choice was foreshadowing Max getting cursed by Vecna in season 4, and Matt did sort of elude to this in his response to the question, seeing as it was focused only on her. But what could this possibly mean for the other three then?

Initially, it didn’t seem like we got anything substantial enough in s4 that could have possibly paralleled Joyce, Mike and Jonathon to Max's situation, or even being cursed by Vecna like she did for that matter. Well, except—

I do find it interesting that the same episode we see Max slowly discover she has been cursed, in an episode literally titled 'Vecna's Curse', it's March 22nd, Will's birthday, and in real time we are seeing the three people who would definitely never forget Will's birthday, presumably forget.

Because undeniably, the first thing that crosses my mind when it comes to what could possibly connect these three characters with each other, is Will. He's what connects them all. But even more specifically, THIS scene below is what connects them all, a scene which, might I remind you, has a major emphasis on the word 'remember':

Joyce: Do you know what March 22nd is? It’s your birthday. YOUR birthday. When you turned 8, I gave you that huge box of crayons, do you remember that?

Jonathon: Do you remember the day dad left?

Mike: Do you remember the first day that we met?

Vecna:

Not only do I think this means that Vecna most likely took away these three's memory of Will’s birthday, I also think it means he took away this specific memory and all the memories mentioned within it.

If it's all coming full circle and everything leads back to Will, it would make sense that Vecna 'took notes' during this whole incident in 2x08. These memories and these specific people in Will's life played a role in thwarting Vecna's plans last time, so obviously, he's not going to give them the chance to do that again.

This also brings up some interesting questions:

Were those weird POV shots of the Cali gang, that looked oddly stalker-ish, meant to represent Vecna keeping a close eye on them, to make sure his plan was still in motion?

How long will this manipulation (curse) Vecna has on these three last? And to what extent? Will it all just come to a head right away in early season 5, at a moment when they're trying to save Will, but they inevitably fail because all of the relevant things that saved him last time, are now missing from their memories?

And last, but definitely not least, is it possible Mike wouldn’t have gone through with professing his love to El, the way that he did, even going as far as to say his life started the day he found her in the woods (the day Will went missing), if he had remembered already doing the exact same thing with Will…? If he had remembered the best thing he'd ever done was ask Will to be his friend? Because if this theory is correct y’all... MIKE DOESN'T REMEMBER!!!???

Well, that's all (for now)

Please be sure to check out this post if you haven't already, but even more importantly, scroll down to the bottom of that post, because there I have linked all the most incriminating evidence thus far.

And trust me, once you read all of it, it's pretty much undeniable.

I also hope this gives some validation to those of you out there who denied vehemently that Joyce, Mike or Jonathon could EVER possibly forget Will's birthday. Because you were right. Technically, they didn't. Technically it required an inter-dimensional monster for this to be possible at all. So props to ya'll and your faith in these characters! YOU WERE RIGHT!

#stranger things #will byers #stranger things meta #stranger things theory #birthdaygate #stranger things 5 #st5 headcanon #also hate to be the bitch to bring this up...#but you know how we always joked about how jonathon would be the only one to save will bc he knows his favorite song...#well.. in that scene in the shed back in s2... jonathon mentions that memory...#which means he doesn't remember #WHICH MEANS WILL IS FUCKED BASICALLY #yeah it might be good to go back and see everything they mentioned #because it's basically a free for all in terms of vecna swiping those memories right out of their brains #will byers im praying for you #that whole thing about s5 going back to s1 vibes has me scared...#but also there's a lot of foreshadowing that mike is in danger.?#so im not totally convinced he doesn't somehow mess up vecna's plan yet again...#maybe that's how him and will both end up stuck in the upside down together...#yes I will turn this around so it benefits me #what about it?

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beep-beep-robin · 1 year

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i‘ve been watching cm: evolution and now i can‘t stop thinking about eddie having to listen to steve talk about all the hook ups and dates he‘s having, having to act like he‘s happy for him and jokingly telling him to shut up about the details.

he thinks he has to act like a great friend, encourages steve to do what makes him happy and listens to all his stories while internally he can feel his heart breaking more with every single one of them.

because he doesn‘t want to be the one listening to these stories, he wants to be the one he talks about. wants steve‘s face to light up the way it does because he‘s thinking about something eddie did.

but he thinks as long as he can be close to steve in any way, he‘ll happily take this version of their relationship over not having him in his life at all.

what eddie doesn‘t know though, is that steve‘s doing the same thing. he can‘t stop thinking about eddie, no matter who he hooks up with or dates. all he thinks about is seeing eddie again and telling him about everything, enjoying the banter that ensues when steve goes into too much detail.

he can‘t stop looking for even a twinge of jealousy in eddie‘s face, but he never finds it. nonetheless, he loves talking to him. loves hearing all of eddie‘s digs at his „king steve“ moves, the way he slightly judges every girl steve tells him about. (steve thinks it‘s because eddie genuinely believes the girls are ridiculous to even consider dating steve. eddie knows it‘s because he has to let his jealousy out somehow, he can‘t blame the girls.)

robin has to listen to steve complain about how he never gets the reaction he wants out of eddie. simultaneously he‘s also so giddy about certain things the other says. like when he compliments his looks in a joking (?) way or defends him when he told him about how on one date the girl called steve „stupid“ because he talked about his own interests for a change.

and robin‘s just dying internally. because on the other side of all that is eddie, who talks her ear of about steve never finding the right person and how selfish he feels for wishing it‘d be him. but she‘s not going to betray either of her friends, so she patiently watches everything unfold.

until one day, steve shows up at her doorstep, cheeks red and hair disheveled, and tells her about how he got stood up on a date and eddie couldn‘t hold himself back any longer.

how he went on a rant about how none of those girls treat him well enough and that he let slip how much he would love to show him what he deserves in a relationship, before stopping short with the biggest eyes steve‘d ever seen on him. about how he just pulled eddie into a kiss then and there.

#steddie #steveddie #steve x eddie #steddie ficlet #eddie x steve #steddie headcanon #steve harrington #eddie munson #robin buckley #original post #stranger things ficlet #stranger things #vanessas headcanons #vanessas writing #garvez made me think #how about we steddify this #lol #also cue me projecting AGAIN bc this was literally me with one of my friends (eddie‘s side)#without the happy ending and reciprocated feelings though lmao

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snowangeldotmp3 · 1 year

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kas!max mayfield

okay, this is a thought i've been rotating in my mind for a while (since vol2 dropped) and maddie (@verymuchablog42) and i were talking about the ever popular kas!eddie (which, while fun to explore, likely is not going to happen)

do you know who is the perfect candidate for a kas figure?

max mayfield.

i don't think max is out of the woods, and while it might not be an exact kas the bloody handed scenario,(i don't think the duffers would add vampires this late into the show, lol) i think we can all agree that vecna isn't done with max. yes, technically el is the one who brought her back, not vecna. but i think max is still the perfect candidate.

reason number one: she's in a coma, meaning she's basically defenseless against vecna if he were to strike again. (unless el is consistently monitoring her, which, from the looks of episode 9, she is, but still!) we know vecna/the mind flayer can possess people, and that vecna possession is way more powerful. we've seen vecna/the mind flayer possess people before, and though he's been knocked down a few pegs, he's not completely powerless. though el is the one who brought her back, vecna could be the one to give max her life back, meaning no more coma.

reason number two: the whole puppet master thing. the master of puppets is vecna, and who's the perfect puppet right now? a semi-dead girl who has a connection to el and will and the rest of the party. vecna could tear the party apart from the inside with max. (and a girl who vecna is now seemingly attached too, both with billy's possession and subsequent death, and then with max's death.)

reason number three: if we assume that max will tear the group apart from the inside, we also have to assume that she will be the one who rails against vecna with them in the end, too. because we all know max, there is no way that she wouldn't be fighting off vecna with everything she has, even while he's the only thing keeping her alive. she's going to make him pay.

reason number four: the emotional potential. god, could you imagine? not only would it break lucas and el (and the rest of the party + steve, robin, and nancy) that their best friend and girlfriend is now a puppet for the enemy, but they can't do much about it. it won't be as simple as 'play kate bush' and it saves the day.

not only that, but from max's pov, it would be emotionally devastating. 'do you accept the risk?' and this is the consequence of that risk. that tiny, seemingly insignificant acceptance, has led her to this. she didn't want to end up like billy, spent her years with him defying him the best she knew how, and yet, at the end of the day, she would have the exact same fate as him. her fate is no longer her own (has it ever been?) and she becomes the puppet for vecna's ultimate plan.

anyways, this is half me theorizing about max's s5 fate, and the other half trying to reconcile the fact that max could very well just, die. and i don't want that to happen, i want her (if she does have to go out) to go out with a bang. a 'fuck you!' to vecna, if you will. but i think if max does wake up in season 5, this is one of the routes that they could very well explore.

#max mayfield #stranger things #kas!max mayfield #again: i don't think they'd make her an exact kas figure but i think it would be very similar.#like a moment where dustin goes '...like kas! she's like kas! we could still save her! we could still win!' or some shit #of course will and el would know something's Wrong with her. and lucas too. he would know there's something distinctly Not Max about her #also sorry maddie for tagging u but now u got me thinking </3 #stranger things theory #st5 speculation #stranger things 5 #not sure what else to tag this with tbh. uh.#first flayed!robin now kas max mayfield what's next! who knows.#not i. that's for sure.#uhhhh adding some extra tags bc i don’t know how else to sort this #elmax #lumax #elumax

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aemiron-main · 2 years

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this show makes me insane the gay Mike analysis makes me insane the way that el’s character form the very beginning aligns perfectly with an arc about Mike being gay/having never loved El romantically is INSANE because it would never work with any other character/girl that isn’t El especially not without ruining their friendship in the end.

But long story short (gonna talk about this at length in the analysis) because El is who she is and is the character that she is, raised in a lab but still loving but also knows how to hold her own etc, she’s been raised outside of the typical heteronormative homophobic society, narratively she’s PERFECT for gay Mike in a show where you’re not supposed to hate people for being gay. Because in the end, when El and the audience find out that Mike never loved El romantically because he’s gay (which imo is very much already demonstrated regardless of s5), El isn’t going to hate him for being gay or be upset that he’s gay the way that somebody who was raised in a heteronormative/homophobic society and then had their heart broken by a gay man likely would. El isn’t going to hate him for anything imo but she’s going to be upset with him but NOT not going to be upset with him because he’s gay/never loved her: she’s going to be upset with him because he lied to her and his from her.

I’m sure she was upset about him not loving her at first, esp before she starts to get an inkling that’s he’s gay, as we see with the bedroom fight in s4, but even in that scene, she’s more upset about the fact that he’s lying to her, that he denies that he never says it. She’s upset that he doesn’t say it/write it, sure, but the main upset imo comes from him lying about it. Especially since even in s3, El was upset, sure, that Mike couldn’t come over to make out the day after Hopper threatened Mike. She was upset about that lack of love/affection! But she was more upset about the lying. She broke up with over the lying, not over him not coming to see her/display affection. Especially since when Mike explains why he couldn’t come over, because of hopper’s threats, if El was still solely focused on Mike loving her/that affection, she would have blamed hopper, as she’s done in the past, and let Mike off the hook. But she doesn’t. Because that’s not what she’s upset about- the lying is.

And I think that especially once El realizes that Mike not loving her had nothing to do with her, and everything to do with him and being gay, and that it’s not that he just loves Will more than her as a person, it’s that he could never love her at all, by NO fault of her own, she’s going to be more understanding.

Again I love bi and unlabelled Mike truthers but NARRATIVELY ALONE bc even tho messy situations like that DO happen irl, I feel like explicitly gay Mike works better because that way, El isn’t pitted against Will. It’s not a matter of actual choice between them, or who Mike loves more. It’s about never having loved El at all, by no fault of her own, because he was unable to. Somebody like El, who feels unloveable, getting an ending where Mike reveals that he just loves Will more? Even if he did ever love her? And even if he never loved her but is still bin, that still shows that there’s something about El as a person that Mike does not love. But if Mike is gay, then it’s not about El at all. It’s not about her being unloveable or loved less compared to Will- it’s about Mike and who he is able to love and his lack of attraction to women.

That’s one of the big things for me about gay Mike from a narrative standpoint and why I believe it’s been set up from the beginning ESPECIALLY in regards to his relationship with El and why El is written the way that she is- it immediately recontextualizes Mike and el’s relationship both for the audience and for El. It shows that El, who has felt unloveable, felt like a monster, felt that she can only be loved as a superhero, and never loved for herself, is not unloveable. It’s that Mike is incapable of loving her. She is not incapable of BEING loved, Mike is incapable of loving her.

If Mike was portrayed as attracted to women and genuinely romantically in love with El at one point, then when Byler becomes canon, it’s about a choice of El over will, which again happens irl for sure, and Mike would not be wrong or bad for making that choice, but NARRATIVELY because these are characters who have themes and arcs and allegories, Mike being anything but gay imply that there is something about El as a person that he doesn’t love, that he won’t love, that there is something about El that is unloveable, which feels like a poor way to address the arc of a character who has canonically felt unloved for the majority of her life and feels unloveable.

But once Mike is confirmed to be gay, it’s not about El at all. It’s about Mike. It’s not that she can’t be loved, it’s that HE can’t love her. He is not physically capable of it. And absolutely, Bi people are MORE than capable of not loving certain people, that they can’t love them because they don’t like who they are as a person, or aren’t attracted to them as a person physically and personality wise, but if Mike is gay, he also literally CANT love her but not because of who she is or what she looks like or anything to do with El- it’s because of who MIKE is. Millie even said herself that Mike Can’t love El in the way that she wants him to. It’s not that he won’t or doesn’t want to, it’s that he can’t.

Like I said, I know that messy situations about falling out of love with someone happen irl, and Mike wouldn’t be wrong or bad for that, not at all. (he’d be wrong for lying about it though just like how he’s wrong for lying about not loving El int he context of being gay). But narratively, if Mike is anything but gay, then there is SOMETHING about El as a person, physically or personality wise or both that he does not like. Which again is valid and happens irl- but when it comes to el’s narrative as a character, as someone who’s centered around feeling unloved for who she is as a person, it’s not the best way to handle that narrative imo, especially if we still want Mike and El to be close/friends the end, which I think is what the duffers are going for, esp since like I said, due to her upbringing and unique character, El wouldn’t hate Mike for being gay/be upset with him because of that. But she IS upset about the idea that there’s something about HER that is unloveable (see: the way she tries to change herself and act like someone she’s not at the airport and rink o mania) and she IS upset about Mike lying to her. So if Mike just doesn’t love HER/loves will more, which, if he’s anything but gay, is the case, then it’s hard to resolve things between Mike and El in a positive way because they get hit but a.) El’s upset about Mike not loving her for who she is/feeling unlovable and b.) Mike lying to her. But if Mike is gay, then a.) is removed, and it’s just upset about Mike lying to her, which, him lying to her about being gay, like I said, is something that I think that El could understand without hating him for it, without being homophobic towards him because of her unique character and upbringing.

And I think that’s the big thing about Mike and his inability to say “I love you” to El. It’s not that he won’t say it or that he doesn’t want to, because then why not just frame it around Mike not being ready to grow up and say it? It’s that he can’t, it’s framed that he can’t say it, he physically cannot get the words out during the aisle scene in season 3 or during the bedroom fight scene. He only manages to say it when El is dying- the only reason why he CAN say it then is because he’s not saying it to El when she’s conscious, and because of something I’m going to explain here but also more in depth during the analysis:

If Mike not being able to say I love you = Mike being gay, and, as I’m going to talk in my analysis, Mike throughout s4 likely knows he is gay/is figuring it out for sure throughout s4 but is trying to decide whether to be in or out of the closet. So, the monologue is his ripping off the bandaid, his “I’m not going to come out as gay I’m going to hide this forever, as far as anyone knows I’m not gay” moment. And that’s why he can say “I love you” (in addition to the fact that he doesn’t even know if El can hear it), because in that moment, for the rest of his life, he thinks he is going to be not gay (gay = not able to say ily, not gay = can’t say ily). But just like other parts of the monologue, which are verifiably untrue, it’s not true. Mike is gay and isn’t going to be in the closet for the rest of his life, regardless of what he thinks. His monologue/attempt to make that choice FAILED, it was full of lies. Mike is lying to himself and to El in that scene. He’s not going to stay in the closet forever. He doesn’t love her.

Again, like I said, Mike is framed in a way where it’s about the idea that he CANNOT say he loves her, like PHYSICALLY CANNOT rather than the idea that he’s not ready, or doesn’t want to. Because he does. That’s the thing. Mike, part of him WANTS to love El, wants to be “normal,” wants to love her in the way she deserves and feels guilty for not being able to do so. We see this in his character. Part of him WANTS to love her, part of him he WANTS to say it but he CANT. They’ve framed it not as personal choice, not as him not liking El/hating her, because he DOES care for her as a person, he DOES idolize her even and DOES care about her, genuinely. But he CANT love her romantically. It’s not that he won’t, or doesn’t want to because there’s something he doesn’t like about El as a person- it’s because he CANT, because he’s gay. It’s not about El at all.

He CANT say it until the monologue. And when he does, like I said, it’s tied to lies about himself and about trying to ‘choose not to be gay/come out of the closet’. He CAN say it in that moment because in a weird way, in his mind, he’s “not gay anymore” because he’s choosing to stay in the closet forever (which is NOT how it works you can’t choose it of course but MIKE needs to realize this, realize that being in the closet forever and acting as if he’s not gay doesn’t make him able to love El, doesn’t make him not gay, even if it makes him able to say it, and even then, he can’t say it to be conscious face and again it’s tied to other lies.)

Narratively, if Mike wheeler is explicitly gay, then it’s not a choice- what isn’t a choice? Not loving El is not a choice. The love triangle is not a choice. The ‘choice’ between Will and El isn’t actually a choice. There IS NO LOVE TRIANGLE. THATS THE THING THE LOVE TRIANGLE DOES NOT EXIST!! BECAUSE EL IS NOT A VIABLE OPTION FOR MIKE!! WILL AND ELL ARENT PITTED AGAINST EACHOTHER BECAUSE THERE IS NO CHOICE RHERE IS NO LOVE TRIANGLE!! Just like how being gay isn’t a choice. And even though el’s an “option” in the sense that Mike could choose to stay in the closet, choose to try and act like he loves her, choose to be her boyfriend, it’s called a LOVE TRIANGLE, not a RELATIONSHIP triangle.

It’s about LOVE, it’s about Mike’s feelings, even if Mike and El stayed as boyfriend and girlfriend until they died and in this exact “love triangle” scenario they’re in now where Mike so with El but had feelings for will, there would still BE NO LOVE TRIANGLE because Mike CANNOT LOVE EL. ITS NOT A RELATIONSHIP TRIANGLE ITS NOT ABOUT WHO HES IN A RELATIONSHIP/CHOOSING TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH!! THE RELATIONSHIP TRIANGLE COULD EXIST!!! SURE!! BUT ITS CALLED A LOVE TRIANGLE BECAUSE ITS ABOUT HOW YOU FEEL AND WHO YOU LOVE AND MIKE CANNOT LOVE EL BECAUSE HES GAY!! EVEN THOUGH HE HAS TO CHOOSE WHAT RELATIONSHIP TO BE IN, HES NOT CHOOSING LOVE. RELATIONSHIP DOES NOT EQUAL LOVE!! MIKES CHOICE IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS NOT LOVE!! HIS LOVE IS NOT THE CHOICE!! Because if it was, if mike was anything other than gay and his love was a choice between Will and El, choosing betwene his love for both of them, like I said, it’s way more difficult narratively and more importantly, difficulty aside, because ST does not shy away from difficulty, does not align with the narrative as a whole, nor the arcs and underlying themes of each individual character, such as things like El’s arc regarding feeling unloveable.

The love triangle does not exist! There is no choice! I’ve seen people frame it as “the GA needs to realize that Will is a viable love triangle choice for Mike,” but I think that people may want to try looking at it with the lens that it isn’t true that Will is a viable love triangle choice for Mike, the GA are right in that weird regard, although not in the way they think they are. Because the love triangle does not exist because El is not a viable choice for Mike either. Will is not a viable choice for Mike!! Because there’s no choice!! If the love triangle was between Mike and two other men, then Will would be a viable choice. But it’s not. Will is not a viable choice because there’s no choice at all. Even if Mike didn’t love Will as a person in this current in-show love triangle scenario, which he does, there still would be no choice between them because the only option would be Will. So he’s technically not a viable choice in the love triangle because THERE IS NO CHOICE!! He’s a viable choice for mike’s love, sure, in the context of Will versus other men. But not a viable choice in the love triangle because THERE IS NO CHOICE THERE IS NOBODY EXCEPT WILL TO CHOOSE FROM WITHJN THE WILL EL MIKE LOVE TRIANGLE!! Will is not a viable choice and El is also not a viable choice because again, there’s no choice at all because Mike is gay.

Like cmon! The duffers LOVE flipping things on their head, and how would a love triangle be any different? The flip is that IT DOESNT EXIST!! The “choice” that’s inherent to a love triangle is not a choice at all! And I think that’s part of why they showed us the stancy jancy love triangle in s4, to show that Nancy DOES have to make a choice, unlike Mike, who is not making a choice because there is no choice to be made.

Anyway this is a ramble and I’m still refining my thoughts, but I’m gonna address it fully in the analysis.

#stranger things #byler #mike wheeler #gay Mike wheeler #I’m so excited to finish thsi analysis #i know it seems like it’s taking a stupidly long time b it THATS bc #i want it to be perfect and I have SO much to say like this is gonna be my biggest analysis I’m proud of it ok #again bi Mike and unlabelled Mike truthers ily and you’re valid this is just #my (pretty firm) opinion and analysis on the subject just like how you guys are totally entitled to yours!!!!!#our analysis and thoughts can coexist even if we disagree!!!

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