#also interesting in this context is the fact that the journey to the west | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

the-monkey-ruler · 5 months

Note

I recently got my friend to start watch Lego Monkie Kid and as we’ve been watching it I’ve been explain Journey To The West to him so he has more info and context for what’s happening in the show (even if everything is not jttw accurate) I’ve been trying to figure out how to explain Erlang to him but I don’t know enough about the guy to really do that could you share some info and cool facts about him?

I would not being doing the man justice even if I were to write him a 50-page essay going into his lore, history, impact, and overall importance to the Chinese mythos. But I shall try to sum it up in a tumble post.

Erlang Shen is one of, if not THE, greatest hero of Heaven and arguably the strongest god in the pantheon. His power and skill are only matched by his intelligence and merit. As such he is the perfect rival and sworn brother of Sun Wukong. An amazing foil to the character (I have talked about their foils here and here and here would even recommend looking at these posts if you want more information about him!)

He is a god with a wide range of responsibilities, including the god of water, the god of hunting, the god of national protection, the god of Cuju, the god of drama, the god of children's protection, the god of farming, etc. He has MANY legends that cover his origins (one being that he is the son of an engineer and helped create waterways) but his most popular legend is without a doubt the one highlighted in Lotus Lantern where he is the son of an unsanctioned marriage between a human Yang Tianyou and a goddess Yunhua Tiannu. This was the most popular version of his mythos, always spread in popularity because of FSYY and Xiyouji, thus further solidifying this as a most well-known and widely accepted background.

Sadly, when Heaven found out about the marriage they attacked in arrested his mother leading to his elder brother Yang Jiao and father being killed. Erlang and his younger sister Yang Chan were able to escape death or capture but his mother Yunhua was put under a mountain for her crimes of abandoning her post and hiding a family. His sister Chan and himself escaped and trained under an immortal master and in a short amount of time, while he was still in his youth as a young man, he became powerful enough to fight his Uncle the Jade Emporer (please keep this in mind that in a few years he fought WITH THE JADE EMPORER to save his mother). Details get fuzzy here as some legends have it that she was saved and others say she died in the crossfire but personally, I think that he freed his mother from her imprisonment.

It is because of this attack that he is known a bit as a rebel and follows his own sense of justice. He never involves himself in conflicts unless he is personally asked or he personally believes that the offender is in the wrong. He understands when Heaven must be questioned but also personally has experienced what it means to break Heaven's laws, seeing how his own mother broke Heaven's rules and this crime led to the death of his father and brother. He is always considered to be one of the most loyal and trustworthy heroes in myth as people worship him for such reasons.

It’s only really when the Lotus Lantern myth that was created far later in his mythos does he get to play the antagonist where his own sister Yang Chan commits the same crime as their mother by marrying a human, abandoning her post, having a child and hiding it. And Erlang has to be in the same role that his uncle was and face the issue of punishing his sister for the crime their mother committed. He leaves her husband and son alive while putting his sister under a mountain and guarding her and this really could show a greater depth of his character how he never really processed his father and brother's death and rather continues the cycle of abuse, which I think could be a very interesting conversation. It makes him really multifaceted in how he responds to seeing his sister repeating their mother's crimes and him resenting his own godhood and what trauma it has caused him. That is getting into my own personal interpretation of the character but in either case, he gets defeated by his nephew Liu Chenxiang (also known to be Wukong's disciple in later interpretations) and his sister freed.

But in regards to Erlang's connection in Xiyouji we see that Wukong is supposed to be in the wrong at the start of the novel. While yes he was being given a lower rank and not invited to the peach party he still trashed the party, ate all the peaches, ate all the immortal pills, drank most of the immortal wine, and waged war on heaven. You can have your own take on right or wrong in this case but Wukong was trying to do all this for his own needs, he wasn't trying to change an oppressive system, rather he was trying to be IN CHARGE of that oppressive system, claiming he wanted to be the new Jade Emporer. This was not a rebellion to put a new order in place, but Wukong forcefully tried to be the head of the same order that was 'oppressing' (I say that loosely) him. (please note that this has changed with modern media to show Wukong as a freedom fighter but this is a newer interpretation). Erlang was never put in charge of the fight against Wukong but rather it was a Hail Mary hope because Erlang Shen could have chosen to deny the order if he didn’t see that it was fair.

Erlang was not going to get involved until Guanyin herself had to convince the Jade Emporer to swallow his pride and ask his nephew. Erlang doesn't get involved in heaven's conflicts easily and must be addressed personally if he were to get involved, and even THEN he has the power to deny the Jade Emporer if he sees fit. But Erlang agrees to fight Wukong, not because he was paid to do so, but because it is believed that he does it out of his own sense of justice and believes Wukong is genuinely in the wrong in this war. They have a battle of equal strength, both pushing their 72 transformation abilities to the limits, the only two in all of heaven with such powers and such the only two in heaven that could fight each other. And while it is hard to say who would win, Laozi used the diamond snare in the middle of the battle to capture Wukong and Erlang and Wukong's battle came to an inconclusive draw.

It is the next time that Wukong and Erlang meet in Xiyouji during the Nine Heads Demons fight and Wukong calls Erlang his sworn brother, saying that he has a huge debt to him. It is believed that Wukong is thanking Erlang to sparing his family on Flower Fruit Mountain instead of following the Nine Generations Rule. This rule has it that any criminal's family was to be executed with the criminal as well and Wukong adopting all his subjects as his family would understand that all 47,000 of his monkeys would also sadly be killed when he was to be executed. The punishment for heavier crimes would not only kill your family, but also to destroy your home and salt the earth, your immediate neighbors would be punished, and even the ministers responsible for the region would be punished and demoted.

However, while Erlang Shen did burn Flower Fruit Mountain we saw that not all of Wukong's family died, meaning that Erlang went against Heaven's law and instead spared what family he could. While you can make your own judgments about the burning, Wukong seems to understand that his family was meant for complete annihilation but saw that rather many of his monkeys were spared and he still had a home to come back to. Whether this is because Erlang Shen knew what it was like to lose a family or that he thought that the Nine Generation Rule was too harsh is hard to say. But in any case, Wukong shows great thanks to Erlang to going against the order and calls him brother in their latest interaction. We rarely get to see gods being in an antagonist role and seeing how both Sun Wukong and Erlang Shen can play both hero and villain depending on what kind of story they are shows not only the complexity and depth of the characters but also shows that these are the most humane gods that are in the heavens, and also why I think they are some of the most iconic, and still beloved figures in media.

In short, Erlang Shen is to be seen as a great and just hero but also is allowed his own human flaws and is just as complex as Wukong if I can so say. He has gone through many changes but his most popular interpretations of him have him show his human side again and again, a god that is to be the most powerful but can never escape that he is a creation of an illegal union. That not matter how high he is in the heavens he never stops being one of the most human gods.

#ask #erlang shen #yang jian #yang chan #lotus lantern #xiyouji #jttw #journey to the west #sun wukong #liu chenxiang

37 notes · View notes

josefavomjaaga · 1 year

Text

Eugène on the capture of Malta

Somebody committed the grave error to show interest in Eugène’s memoirs … so I thought maybe there is some more interest somewhere out there. Most of what Eugène writes is very brief, it’s possible that this was only a first draft, outlining the events, to be elaborated on later. Which never happened, due to Eugène’s death.

I’ll start with the departure of the French army for Egypt. For context: Eugène (16), had just returned from another journey that had taken him on Napoleon’s orders to Corfou, Naples and Rome (where Napoleon’s brother Joseph held the post of French ambassador and where he had witnessed anti-French riots and the death of a general who should have married Napoleon’s ex Desirée Clary).

I accompanied the ambassador [Joseph Bonaparte] to Paris, where I stayed for some time; since, in the first days of April, I received the order to leave, with several of my comrades, for Toulon. General Bonaparte arrived there on 9 May; eight days later, we were embarked on board the one hundred and twenty-gun ship Orient, and on 20 May, all the ships of the fleet set sail. It was a magnificent sight to see more than four hundred sails, protected by thirty ships of the line or frigates, sailing away from the shores of France to chase the glory and hazards of a distant expedition, the aim of which was still unknown to most of us.

At the end of twenty days, we arrived at the sight of Malta, and, the next day, after some talks with the city of Valletta, we disembarked at two different points, to the east and west of this place, at the same time as another column was also making a landing on the island of Gozo. I was sent, on the morning of 11 June, to General Desaix, and, in the evening, to the chief of brigade Marmont. I was with the latter at the moment when the garrison made a fairly large sortie; it was repulsed with some casualties; five flags were taken from the enemy, and I had the good fortune to capture one. After the affair, I was charged by the chief of brigade Marmont to carry the five flags to General Bonaparte, who was on board the Orient. The following day negotiations with the place were started, and we entered it on the 13th.

The general-in-chief visited the fortifications, and I remember very well hearing General Dufalgua, commander of the army's engineers, jokingly complimenting him on the fact that someone had been found in the fortress to open the doors.

And I can just see one 16-year-old sous-lieutenant being all shocked by this. Treason? When he had just been so proud of the French army gloriously defeating the enemy?

Also interesting to note: There was a time when Marmont and Eugène got along just fine.

#napoleon's family #eugène de beauharnais #Auguste Marmont #Egyptian campaign #Malta 1798

25 notes · View notes

sketching-shark · 1 year

Note

What do you think of the show's portrayal of Wukong and Macaque's relationship now? I know before you've brought up the possibility that Wukong simply doesn't care about Macaque. But now we know that isn't true. Those two were basically living on FFM as one big happy monkey family. And now we know that abandoning Macaque is one Wukong's regrets. Not to mention all that stuff about Wukong promising to live forever on FFM together with Macaque, and Wukong imprisoning his brothers in the memory scroll. With this new context, I wanted to know what your viewpoint is on all this.

Spoilers for Monkie Kid & general kvetching below sdfewaf

I have to be honest anon their relationship as it currently stands is somewhat giving me whiplash on account of the fact that we've got Sun Wukong not caring like at all about Macaque exploding in season 1 (and not seeming to realize that him literally killing his past BFF would have influenced Macaque's hostility in any of their previous encounters) to him betraying the shadow simian apparently being one of the great regrets of his life, but I guess Macaque has with this new context been proven to be a little more consistent in that him being BFFs with the Monkey King before Sun Wukong betrayed him does explain his desire to tell anyone who will listen what a terrible person Sun Wukong is, and I guess it does provide a slight explanation for Macaque going out of his way to repeatedly beat the tar out of Qi Xiaotian for the crime of Associated With Sun Wukong. And this does confirm that the lego show decided that their versions of Sun Wukong and the Six-Eared Macaque would deviate completely from the og classic in favor of the currently popular trope of "wah we were besties but then we weren't because it turns out the 'hero' suuuuuuucks & also the 'villain' ends up warping his/her entire life around hating/getting back at the 'hero' but for some reason this is considered a good foundation for rekindling a relationship." Fully aware I'm an outlier here, but needless to say I'm not a fan aweageraw.

I guess at the end of the day I'm not really liking this change not simply because of my love for the og classic (and the really interesting implications about morality and identity that underlay the True & False Monkey King arc) but because I feel like this turn to a currently popular story type is really limiting these characters' potentials. It's like now their relationship is just another example of how Sun Wukong hurts literally everyone around him, while Macaque is once again confirmed to have basically nothing going for him outside of Sun Wukong's influence.

And yes, OF COURSE any retelling of an old story is going to deviate sometimes significantly from the work it's based on, even if and sometimes especially if it's a sequel, as with Monkie Kid. And when you're working with something like Journey to the West, while I still think some of the best adaptations are those that stick closer to the source material, such changes can be a good thing. I mean, I've joked enough how what with this being a children's show you wouldn't want to stick to a Sun Wukong who smashes people into meat patties! But at this point it almost feels like with fanon & increasingly canon insisting on these two being the Most Important Person to each other & also for Macaque to be the completely wronged party that their conflict just makes for one monkey that has 0 identity outside of the other while the other is little more than a selfish ass. I mean hell, it's even got to the point where the current writer of Monkie Kid felt compelled to go on twitter to drop the big spoiler that Sun Wukong is NOT Qi Xiaotian's bio dad, and while we can speculate why he did this it seems at least part of the reason was because a not insignificant amount of people were saying that on top of all his other screw-ups Sun Wukong is a deadbeat dad. But then again, why wouldn't they? Monkie Kid has been hammering it in time after time again that basically there isn't a single person, least of all the Six-Eared Macaque (the definite show/fandom meow-meow), that Sun Wukong hasn't hurt horribly from being impulsive and thoughtless and selfish, so why would anyone think differently in regard to his relationship to Qi Xiaotian? Add all of that to the uber-violent betrayal of all his brothers that he apparently didn't do anything about even millennia after the fact, and you can see why parts of this fandom have been primed to believe the worst about Sun Wukong. Really does make the popularity of scenarios of him rekindling his apparently deep past relationship with Macaque kind of baffling.

Of course, it does need to be acknowledged that even now we don't have the full story, and that Sun Wukong's failure to defeat the Jade Emperor (despite the Azure Lion K.O.ing him in one hit) was compounded by him being literally tortured into becoming heaven's lapdog and betraying his brothers. And who knows! The Monkey King's eyes glowing gold in all of the past scenes after he gets the headband could be a hint that it wasn't just torture through a massive headache but also some version of mind control, kind of like how his eyes glowed blue when he was being possessed by the Lady Bone Demon. But either way we still have no idea what Sun Wukong's perspective is about any of this. We only know that his brothers saw him surrendering to heaven and AGREEING to serve the Jade Emperor to save his own hide, and that even after the headband was taken off he did nothing to try to save them from the scroll. This isn't the full story, but that's what we have to work with.

ANYWAY, even with this context I still think that the best thing that could happen with lego Sun Wukong & Six-Eared Macaque is for Sun Wukong to find a way to fully embrace the fact that *lego Batman voice* just because you lose people doesn't mean you stop letting them in even though a lot of people won't ever forgive you and that's okay, and for the Six-Eared Macaque to find a way to start carving his own identity outside from being the guy violently obsessed with Sun Wukong.

#monkie kid #monkie kid spoilers #anon answered

12 notes · View notes

alatismeni-theitsa · 2 years

Note

Hi, I just read the ask about LO Leuce and how RS mixes Greek and Roman myths with no context. Personally, I don’t really find it wrong to mix different myths together in fiction and it may be because in Chinese literature, elements of Taoism and Buddhism are often mixed together (think Journey to the West). I was wondering why some readers of LO find it wrong for RS to mix elements of different pantheons together.

Hi! 😁 The case of ancient Greek and Italian religion is not the same as Taoism and Buddhism for us. They are centuries apart with differences in stories and cultural approaches. I am not saying that they are day and night and I don't deny any similarities, but just because two things are similar it doesn't mean that they are the same thing.

Oh! Edit cause I forgot to add a similar ask I got, and I wanted to combine them! @hotpocket-fucker here’s your combined answer, too!

The Italians* added the Greek gods to their pantheon nearly a thousand years later. But not only did they approach the gods differently (and with some good amount of imperialism :P ) but also made it their own separate religion, while Greeks had their own set of stories. I mean, many Greek stories bled into the Italian religion, but the Italian religion recorded new stories and also ignored many Greek ones. That means that centuries of Greek tradition and stories didn't make it into the Italian equivalent. The Italians at the time took gods from many pantheons to establish them as their own and show dominance over the peoples conquered by Rome.

Sure, it's not the worst thing in the world if a character who is a god has adventures inspired by different incidents, and I am not saying that one can't do it. But this lumping of Greek and Italian cultures is not very... intersectional. Our history, culture, and religions have been similar at times, yes but because we are neighbors. Being neighbors makes us similar but two distinct people. Greeks don't say "this is the temple of Zeus or Jupiter", it's just "Zeus" because Jupiter and his stories (even if some are similar), are of no canonical interest to the local religion. We are always careful when we pull sources, and mention it when a later addition to the Italian religion was made by another Roman, because we give importance to the fact that it was 1.000 years later than the beginning of the Hellenic religion.

One should at least recognize that just because the Italians said that Hades did one thing, it doesn't mean that the Greeks believe the same story is true, and that these stories were recorded by different nations with different cultures and in very different times. The differences are notable so the Roman gods are more like equivalents, not the exact same gods going through different "adventures" because different ethnicities wrote that they did different things.

An example would be Durga and Kali within India, and they even have many similar stories and many similar festivals. But their nature and presentation is different. Hindus don't like it when others confuse Durga and Kali. Similarly, the Aphrodite of ancient Cyprus is not the Aphrodite of ancient Greece. And in Buddhism, I am not sure if people would like to hear "Mahākāla is basically Shiva, so we can write that Mahākāla cursed his wife to be born a fisherwoman because he was annoyed she didn't pay attention to his teachings." (Derived of a story of Shiva and Parvati). Many more equivalents of Indian deities are included in Buddhism but I do get the impression that, although they reside over the same domains, they are not considered interchangeable.

Additionally, you are probably familiar with the god of Death, Yama and how he is presented differently in different cultures. The "Yama" in each depiction has a different presentation, different duties, and different powers. If you ask people of these regions and countries to tell you who is Yama to them, you might take a different answer. For context:

Yama, mid-17th century, Tibet:

Japan. Statue of Yama (Enma) at Nariai-ji

Hindu Yama:

Of course, not one interaction between two and three cultures can be exactly compared to another similar interaction, but I hope I gave a general impression of the situation.

*I don't say "Romans" bc all their subjects were Romans, including the Greeks and I think it's a proper term since the region is the Italian peninsula - but Italians correct me if I am wrong.h

#hellenic pantheon #roman pantheon #italian pantheon #greek mythology #roman mythology #answered

30 notes · View notes

loosesodamarble · 3 years

Text

Thoughts on a "Japanese" Man

To celebrate Yami Sukehiro's birthday, I'd like to share some of my thoughts about him as a Japanese stand-in for in the world of Black Clover.

Let's start with Yami's name. It's homophonous with the Japanese word for "dark" or "darkness," 闇. That much is obvious but it also is used in lots of words with negative connotations. There are words such as 闇打 (yamiuchi) meaning "sneak attack," 闇弱 (anjaku) meaning "weak-mindedness," and 闇雲に (yamikumoni) which means "reckless, haphazardly." All of them use the same kanji where Yami's name comes from. My favorite though is 闇夜 (yamiya/an'ya) which can mean "a dark/moonless night," "crapshot," or "a depressing outlook," depending on the context." The word combines kanji meaning "darkness" and "night." And what does that remind you of? Yami and Nacht. Each one has a magic which contrasts light, live high risk lives, and have been or currently are facing grim outlooks. The fact that they are similar is intended in the story but to see the parallels on a meta level is super interesting.

Next I want to address Yami's magic. It's Dark Magic. It's an interesting choice considering his homeland is meant to be Japan, down to the name "Land of the Sun." It's widely known that sun iconography is a big thing in Japan (for better or worse) with their most prominent Shinto deity being the goddess of the sun. Perhaps the choice of his magic is symbolic of how far away he is from home? It's unclear whether he can make the journey home and simply chooses not to or if he can't return (mostly due to not knowing the direction and distance in relation to Clover Kingdom). Either way, he is no longer in the presence of his homeland, in the light. He is cut off and thus in darkness. Also, it uses the "Dark is not Evil" trope and fits thematically with the Black Bulls, the leader would of course have a magic that would manifest as black energy.

Finally, I want to take a look at Yami's ideology, the "surpass your limits" thing and besides that. Now, I am a Japanese-American but my experience with Japanese culture is limited. However, one thing I, and likely many others, have heard about Japan's social culture is that there exists a phrase which often is translated as "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down." It's somewhat similar to Tall Poppy Syndrome in the West but where TPS aims to put down overachievers, Japanese society insists upon conformity. The way I see it, Yami stands in opposition to both types of thinking. He tells his squad to surpass their limits, not just in regards to what they think they can do but also what society expects of them. He sees peasants like Magna and Asta as capable Magic Knights while most wouldn't consider them. He takes Noelle in and, with the rest of the squad, helps her unleash her true strength. Then there's the fact that he gathers together social outcasts and allows them to live as they choose to, even if the rest of the kingdom looks down on them. The Black Bulls is all about unlocking one's full potential and being true to themselves.

The freedom to be oneself and achieve is something that many people need to hear. I think it's more important that Japanese citizens, youth especially, learn about that mindset because of how much pressure there is to be successful while also conforming in Japanese society. Having Yami, as a Japanese stand-in, and his squad be embodiment of that idea is important and a powerful message.

I know this post wasn't all that focused and got a little sentimental in the end but they're my thoughts. I don't make it clear that often but I genuinely think that Yami is one of the coolest guys in Black Clover! Being able to put my thoughts into words and share them have further increased my appreciation for his character.

Anyways, お誕生日おめでとう (happy birthday) Yami Sukehiro! And remember to surpass your limits folks!

#happy birthday yami #yami sukehiro #black clover #black clover meta #soda asides

60 notes · View notes

unpopularwiththepopulace · 3 years

Text

A retrospective on some of Broadway’s most important female costume designers across the last century

How much is our memory or perception of a production influenced by the manner in which we visually comprehend the characters for their physical appearance and attire? A lot.

How much attention in memory is often dedicated to celebrating the costume designers who create the visual forms we remember? Comparatively, not much.

Delving through the New York Public Library archives of late, I found I was able to zoom into pictures of productions like Sunday in the Park with George at a magnitude greater than before.

In doing so, I noticed myself marvelling at finer details on the costumes that simply aren’t visible from grainy 1985 proshots, or other lower resolution images.

And marvel I did.

At first, I began to set out to address the contributions made to the show by designer Patricia Zipprodt in collaboration with Ann Hould-Ward. Quickly I fell into a (rather substantial) tangent rabbit hole – concerning over a century’s worth of interconnected designers who are responsible for hundreds of some of the most memorable Broadway shows between them.

It is impossible to look at the work of just one or two of these women without also discussing the others that came before them or were inspired by them.

Journey with me then if you will on this retrospective endeavour to explore the work and legacy that some of these designers have created, and some of the contexts in which they did so.

A set of podcasts featuring Ann Hould-Ward, including Behind the Curtain (Ep. 229) and Broadway Nation (Eps. 17 and 18), invaluably introduce some of the information discussed here and, most crucially, provide a first-hand, verbal link back to this history. The latter show sets out the case for a “succession of dynamic women that goes back to the earliest days of the Broadway musical and continues right up to today”, all of whom “were mentored by one or more of the great [designers] before them, [all] became Tony award-winning [stars] in their own right, and [all] have passed on the [craft] to the next generation.”

A chronological, linear descendancy links these designers across multiple centuries, starting in 1880 with Aline Bernstein, then moving to Irene Sharaff, then to Patricia Zipprodt, then to the present day with Ann Hould-Ward. Other designers branch from or interact with this linear chronology in different ways, such as Florence Klotz and Ann Roth – who, like Patricia Zipprodt, were also mentored by Aline Bernstein – or Theoni V. Aldredge, who stands apart from this connected tree, but whose career closely parallels the chronology of its central portion. There were, of course, many other designers and women also working within this era that provided even further momentous contributions to the world of costume design, but in this piece, the focus will remain primarily on these seven figures.

As the main creditor of the designs for Sunday in the Park with George, let’s start with Patricia (Pat) Zipprodt.

Born in 1925, Pat studied at the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT) in New York after winning a scholarship there in 1951. Through teaching herself “all of costume history by studying materials at the New York Public Library”, she passed her entrance exam to the United Scenic Artists Union in 1954. This itself was a feat only possible through Aline Bernstein’s pioneering steps in demanding and starting female acceptance into this same union for the first time just under 30 years previously.

Pat made her individual costume design debut a year after assisting Irene Sharaff on Happy Hunting in 1956 – Ethel Merman’s last new Broadway credit. Of the more than 50 shows she subsequently designed, some of Pat’s most significant musicals include: She Loves Me (1963) Fiddler on the Roof (1964) Cabaret (1966) Zorba (1968) 1776 (1969) Pippin (1972) Mack & Mabel (1974) Chicago (1975) Alice in Wonderland (1983) Sunday in the Park with George (1984) Sweet Charity (1986) Into the Woods (1987) - preliminary work

Other notable play credits included: The Little Foxes (1967) The Glass Menagerie (1983) Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (1990)

Yes. One person designed all of those shows. Many of the most beloved pieces in modern musical theatre history. Somewhat baffling.

Her work notably earned her 11 Tony nominations, 3 wins, an induction into the Theatre Hall of Fame in 1992, and the Irene Sharaff award for lifetime achievement in costume design in 1997.

By 1983, Pat was one of the most well-respected designers of her era. When the offer for Sunday in the Park with George came in, she was less than enamoured by being confined to the ill-suited basements at Playwright’s Horizons all day, designing full costumes for a story not even yet in existence. From-the-ground-up workshops are common now, but at the time, Sunday was one of the first of its kind.

Rather than flatly declining, she asked Ann Hould-Ward, previously her assistant and intern who had now been designing for 2-3 years on her own, if she was interested in collaborating. She was. The two divided the designing between them, like Pat creating Bernadette’s opening pink and white dress, and Ann her final red and purple dress.

Which indeed leads to the question of the infamous creation worn in the opening number. No attemptedly comprehensive look at the costumes in Sunday would be complete without addressing it or its masterful mechanics.

To enable Bernadette to spring miraculously and seemingly effortlessly from her outer confines, Ann and Pat enlisted the help of a man with a “Theatre Magics” company in Ohio. Dubbed ‘The Iron Dress’, the gasp-inducing motion required a wire frame embedded into the material, entities called ‘moonwalker legs and feet’, and two garage door openers coming up through the stage to lever the two halves apart. The mechanism – highly impressive in its periods of functionality – wasn’t without its flaws. Ann recalls “there were nights during previews where [Bernadette] couldn’t get out of the dress”. Or worse, a night where “the dress closed up completely. And it wouldn’t open up again!”. As Bernadette finished her number, there was nothing else within her power she could do, so she simply “grabbed it under her arm and carried it off stage.”

What visuals. Evidently, the course of costume design is not always plain sailing.

This sentiment is exhibited in the fact design work is a physical materialisation of other creators’ visions, thus foregrounding the tricky need for collaboration and compromise. This is at once a skill, very much part of the job description, and not always pleasant – in navigating any divides between one’s own ideas and those of other people.

Sunday in the Park with George was no exception in requiring such a moment of compromise and revision. With the show already on Broadway in previews, Stephen Sondheim decreed the little girl Louise’s dress “needs to be white” – not the “turquoisey blue” undertone Pat and Ann had already created it with. White, to better spotlight the painting’s centre.

Requests for alterations are easier to comprehend when they are done with equanimity and have justification. Sondheim said he would pay for the new dress himself, and in Seurat’s original painting, the little girl is very brightly the focal centre point of the piece. On this occasion, all agreed that Sondheim was “absolutely right”. A new dress was made.

Other artistic differences aren’t always as amicable.

In Pat Zipprodt’s first show, Happy Hunting with Ethel Merman in 1956, some creatives and directors were getting in vociferous, progress-stopping arguments over a dress and a scene in which Ethel was to jump over a fence. Then magically, the dress went missing. Pat was working at the time as an assistant to the senior Irene Sharaff, and Pat herself was the one to find the dress the next morning. It was in the basement. Covered in black and wholly unwearable. Sharaff had spray painted the dress black in protest against the “bickering”. Indeed, Sharaff disappeared, not to be seen again until the show arrived on Broadway.

Those that worked with her soon found that Sharaff was one to be listened to and respected – as Hal Prince did during West Side Story. After the show opened in 1957, Hal replaced her 40 pairs of meticulously created and individually dyed, battered, and re-dyed jeans with off-the-rack copies. His reasoning was this: “How foolish to be wasting money when we can make a promotional arrangement with Levi Strauss to supply blue jeans free for program credit?” A year later, he looked at their show, and wondered “What’s happened?”

What had happened was that the production had lost its spark and noticeable portions of its beauty, vibrancy, and subtle individuality. Sharaff’s unique creations quickly returned, and Hal had learned his lesson. By the time Sharaff’s mentee, Pat, had “designed the most expensive rags for the company to wear” with this same idiosyncratic dyeing process for Fiddler on the Roof in 1964, Hal recognised the value of this particularity and the disproportionately large payoff even ostensibly simple garments can bring.

Irene Sharaff is remembered as one of the greatest designers ever. Born in 1910, she was mentored by Aline Bernstein, first assisting her on 1928’s original staging of Hedda Gabler.

Throughout her 56 year career, she designed more than 52 Broadway musicals. Some particularly memorable entities include: The Boys from Syracuse (1938) Lady in the Dark (1943) Candide (1956) Happy Hunting (1956) Sweet Charity (1966) The King and I (1951, 1956) West Side Story (1957, 1961) Funny Girl (1964, 1968)

For the last three productions, she would reprise her work on Broadway in the subsequent and indelibly enduring film adaptations of the same shows.

Her work in the theatre earned her 6 Tony nominations and 1 win, though her work in Hollywood was perhaps even more well rewarded – earning 5 Academy Awards from a total of 15 nominations.

Some of Sharaff’s additional film credits included: Meet Me in St. Louis (1944) Ziegfeld Follies (1946) An American in Paris (1951) Call Me Madam (1953) A Star is Born (1954) – partial Guys and Dolls (1955) Cleopatra (1963) Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (1966) Hello Dolly! (1969) Mommie Dearest (1981)

It’s a remarkable list. But it is too more than just a list.

Famously, Judy’s red scarlet ballgown in Meet Me in St. Louis was termed the “most sophisticated costume [she’d] yet worn on the screen.”

It has been written that Sharaff’s “last film was probably the only bad one on which she worked,” – the infamous pillar of camp culture, Mommie Dearest, in 1981 – “but its perpetrators knew that to recreate the Hollywood of Joan Crawford, it required an artist who understood the particular glamour of the Crawford era.” And at the time, there were very few – if any – who could fill that requirement better than Irene Sharaff.

The 1963 production of Cleopatra is perhaps an even more infamous endeavour. Notoriously fraught with problems, the film was at that point the most expensive ever made. It nearly bankrupted 20th Century Fox, in light of varying issues like long production delays, a revolving carousel of directors, the beginning of the infamous Burton/Taylor affair and resulting media storm, and bouts of Elizabeth’s ill-health that “nearly killed her”. In that turbulent environment, Sharaff is highlighted as one of the figures instrumental in the film’s eventual completion – “adjusting Elizabeth Taylor’s costumes when her weight fluctuated overnight” so the world finally received the visual spectacle they were all ardently anticipating.

But even beyond that, Sharaff’s work had impacts more significantly and extensively than the immediate products of the shows or films themselves. Within a few years of her “vibrant Thai silk costumes for ‘The King and I’ in 1951, …silk became Thailand’s best-known export.” Her designs changed the entire economic landscape of the country.

It’s little wonder that in that era, Sharaff was known as “one of the most sought-after and highest-paid people in her profession.” With discussions and favourable comparisions alongside none other than Old Hollywood’s most beloved designer, Edith Head, Irene deserves her place in history to be recognised as one of the foremost significant pillars of the design world.

In this respected position, Irene Sharaff was able to pass on her knowledge by mentoring others too as well as Patricia Zipprodt, like Ann Roth and Florence Klotz, who have in turn gone on to further have their own highly commendable successes in the industry.

Florence “Flossie” Klotz, born in 1920, is the only Broadway costume designer to have won six Tony awards. She did so, all of them for musicals, and all of them directed by Hal Prince, in a marker of their long and meaningful collaboration.

Indeed, Flossie’s life partner was Ruth Mitchell – Hal’s long-time assistant, and herself legendary stage manager, associate director and producer of over 43 shows. Together, Flossie and Ruth were dubbed a “power couple of Broadway”.

Flossie’s shows with Hal included: Follies (1971) A Little Night Music (1973) Pacific Overtures (1976) Grind (1985) Kiss of the Spiderwoman (1993) Show Boat (1995)

And additional shows amongst her credits extend to: Side by Side by Sondheim (1977) On the Twentieth Century (1978) The Little Foxes (1981) A Doll’s Life (1982) Jerry’s Girls (1985)

Earlier in her career, she would first find her footing as an assistant designer on some of the Golden Age’s most pivotal shows like: The King and I (1951) Pal Joey (1952) Silk Stockings (1955) Carousel (1957) The Sound of Music (1959)

The original production of Follies marked the first time Florence was seriously recognised for her work. Before this point, she was not yet anywhere close to being considered as having broken into the ranks of Broadway’s “reigning designers” of that era. Follies changed matters, providing both an indication of the talent of her work to come, and creating history in being commended for producing some of the “best costumes to be seen on Broadway” in recent memory – as Clive Barnes wrote in The New York Times. Fuller discussion is merited given that the costumes of Follies are always one of the show’s central points of debate and have been crucial to the reception of the original production as well as every single revival that has followed in the 50 years since.

In this instance, Ted Chapin would record from his book ‘Everything Was Possible: The Birth of the Musical ‘Follies’ how “the costumes were so opulent, they put the show over-budget.” Moreover, that “talking about the show years later, [Florence] said the costumes could not be made today. ‘Not only would they cost upwards of $2 million, but we used fabrics from England that aren’t even made anymore.’” Broadway then does indeed no longer look like Broadway now.

This “surreal tableau” Flossie created, including “three-foot-high ostrich feather headdresses, Marie Antoinette wigs adorned with musical instruments and birdcages, and gowns embellished with translucent butterfly wings”, remains arguably one of the most impressive and jaw-dropping spectacles to have ever graced a Broadway stage even to this day.

As for Ann Roth, born in 1931, she is still to this day making her own history – recently becoming the joint eldest nominee at 89 for an Oscar (her 5th), for her work on 2020′s Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom. Now as of April 26th, Ann has just made history even further by becoming the oldest woman to win a competitive Academy Award ever. She has an impressive array of Hollywood credits to her name in addition to a roster of Broadway design projects, which have earned her 12 Tony nominations.

Some of her work in the theatre includes: The Women (1973) The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas (1978) They're Playing Our Song (1979) Singin' in the Rain (1985) Present Laughter (1996) Hedda Gabler (2009) A Raisin in the Sun (2014) Shuffle Along (2016) The Prom (2018)

Making her way over to Hollywood in the ‘70s, she has left an indelible and lasting visual impact on the arts through films like: Klute (1971) The Goodbye Girl (1977) Hair (1979) 9 to 5 (1980) Silkwood (1983) Postcards from the Edge (1990) The Birdcage (1996) The Hours (2002) Mamma Mia! (2008) Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom (2020)

It’s clear from this branching 'tree' to see how far the impact of just one woman passing on her time and knowledge to others who are starting out can spread.

This art of acting as a conduit for valuable insights was something Irene Sharaff had learned from her own mentor and predecessor, Aline Bernstein. Aline was viewed as “the first woman in the [US] to gain prominence in the male-dominated field of set and costume design,” and was too a strong proponent of passing on the unique knowledge she had acquired as a pioneer and forerunner in the field.

Born in 1880, Bernstein is recognised as “one of the first theatrical designers in New York to make sets and costumes entirely from scratch and craft moving sets” while Broadway was still very much in its infancy of taking shape as the world we know today. This she did for more than one hundred shows over decades of her work in the theatre. These shows included the spectacular Grand Street Follies (1924-27), and original premier productions of plays like some of the following: Ibsen’s Hedda Gabler (1928) J.M Barrie’s Peter Pan (1928) Grand Hotel (1930) Phillip Barry’s Animal Kingdom (1932) Chekov’s The Seagull (1937) Both Lillian Hellman’s The Children’s Hour (1934) and The Little Foxes (1939)

Beyond direct design work, Bernstein founded what was to become the Neighbourhood Playhouse (the notable New York acting school) and was influential in the “Little Theatre movement that sprung up across America in 1910”. These were the “forerunners of the non-profit theatres we see today” and she continued to work in this realm even after moving into commercial theatre.

Bernstein also established the Museum of Costume Art, which later became the Costume Institute of the Met Museum of Art, where she served as president from 1944 to her death in 1955. This is what the Met Gala raises money for every year. So for long as you have the world’s biggest celebrities parading up and down red carpets in high fashion pieces, you have Aline Bernstein to remember – as none of that would be happening without her.

During the last fifteen years of her life, Bernstein taught and served as a consultant in theatre programs at academic institutions including Yale, Harvard, and Vassar – keen to connect the community and facilitate an exchange of wisdom and information to new descendants and the next generation.

Many designers came somewhere out of this linear descendancy. One notable exception, with no American mentor, was Theoni V. Aldredge. Born in 1922 and trained in Greece, Theoni emigrated to the US, met her husband, Tom Aldredge – himself of Into the Woods and theatre notoriety – and went on to design more than 100 Broadway shows. For her work, she earned 3 Tony wins from 11 nominations from projects such as: Anyone Can Whistle (1964) A Chorus Line (1975) Annie (1977) Barnum (1980) 42nd Street (1980) Woman of the Year (1981) Dreamgirls (1981) La Cage aux Folles (1983) The Rink (1984)

One of the main features that typify Theoni’s design style and could be attributed to a certain unique and distinctive “European flair” is her strong use of vibrant colour. This is a sentiment instantly apparent in looking longitudinally at some of her work.

In Ann Hould-Ward’s words, Theoni speaks to the “great generosity” of this profession. Theoni went out of her way to call Ann apropos of nothing early in the morning at some unknown hotel just after Ann won her first Tony for Beauty and the Beast in 1994, purring “Dahhling, I told you so!” These were women that had their disagreements, yes, but ultimately shared their knowledge and congratulated each other for their successes.

Similar anecdotal goodwill can be found in Pat Zipprodt’s call to Ann on the night of the 1987 Tony’s – where Ann was nominated for Into the Woods – with Pat singing “Have wonderful night! You’re not gonna win! …[laugh] but I love you anyway!”

This well-wishing phone call is all the more poignant considering Pat was originally involved with doing the costumes for Into the Woods, in reprise of their previous collaboration on Sunday in the Park with George.

If, for example, Theoni instinctively is remembered for bright colour, one of the features that Pat is first remembered for is her dedicated approach to research for her designs. Indeed, the New York Public Library archives document how the remaining physical evidence of this research she conducted is “particularly thorough” in the section on Into the Woods. Before the show finally hit Broadway in 1987 with Ann Hould-Ward’s designs, records show Pat had done extensive investigation herself into materials, ideas and prospective creations all through 1986.

Both Ann and Pat worked on the show out of town in try-outs at the Old Globe theatre in San Diego. But when it came to negotiating Broadway contracts, the situation became “tricky” and later “untenable” with Pat and the producers. Ann was “allowed to step in and design” the show alone instead.

The lack of harboured resentment on Patricia’s behalf speaks to her character and the pair’s relationship, such that Ann still considered her “my dear and beloved friend” for over 25 years, and was “at [Pat’s] bed when she died”.

Though they parted ways ultimately for Into the Woods, you can very much feel a continuation between their work on Sunday in the Park with George a few years previously, especially considering how tactile the designs appear in both shows. This tactility is something the shows’ book writer and director, James Lapine, was specific about. Lapine would remark in his initial ideas and inspirations that he wanted a graphic quality to the costumes on this occasion, like “so many sketches of the fairy-tales do”.

Ann fed that sentiment through her final creations, with a wide variety of materials and textures being used across the whole show – like “ribbons with ribbons seamed through them”, “all sorts of applique”, “frothy organzas and rembriodered organzas”. A specific example documents how Joanna Gleason’s shawl as the Baker’s Wife was pieced together, cut apart, and put back together again before resembling its final form.

This highly involved principle demonstrates another manner of inventive design that uses a different method but maintains the aim of particularity as discussed previously with Patricia and Irene’s complex dyeing and re-dyeing process. Pushing the confines of what is possible with the materials at hand to create a variety of colours, shades, and textures ultimately produces visual entities that are complex to look at. Confusing the eye like this “holds attention longer”, Ann maintains, which makes viewers look more intricately at individual segments of the production, and enables the costume design to guide specific focus by not immediately ceding attention elsewhere.

Understanding the methods behind the resultant impacts of a show can be as, if not more, important and interesting than the final product of the show itself sometimes. A phone call Ann had last August with James Lapine reminds us this is a notion we may be treated more to in the imminent future, when he called to enquire as to the location of some design sketches for the book he is working on (Putting It Together: How Stephen Sondheim and I Created 'Sunday in the Park with George') to document more thoroughly the genesis of the pair’s landmark and beloved musical.

In continuation of the notion that origin stories contain their own intrinsic value beyond any final product, Ann first became Pat’s intern through a heart-warming and tenacious tale. Ann sent letters to three notable designers when finishing graduate school. Only Patricia Zipprodt replied, with a message to say she “didn’t have anything now but let me think about it and maybe in the future.” It got to the future, and Ann took the encouragement of her previous response to try and contact Pat again. Upon being told she was out of town with a show, Ann proceeded to chase Pat through various phone books and telephone wires across different states and theatres until she finally found her. She was bolstered by the specifics of their call and ran off the phone to write an imploring note – hinging on the premise of a shared connection to Montana. She took an arrow, stabbed it through a cowboy hat, put it in a box with the note that was written on raw hide, and mailed it to New York with bated breath and all of her hopes and wishes.

Pat was knife-edgingly close to missing the box, through a matter of circumstance and timing. Importantly, she didn’t. Ann got a response, and it boded well: “Alright alright alright! You can come to New York!”

Subsequently, Ann’s long career in the design world of the theatre has included notable credits such as: Sunday in the Park with George (1984) Into the Woods (1987, 1997) Falsettos (1992) Beauty and the Beast (1994, 1997) Little Me (1998) Company (2006) Road Show (2008) The People in the Picture (2011) Merrily We Roll Along (1985, 1990, 2012, segment in Six by Sondheim 2013) Passion (2013) The Visit (2015) The Color Purple (2015) The Prince of Egypt (2021)

From early days in the city sleeping on a piece of foam on a friend’s floor, to working collaboratively alongside Pat, to using what she’d learnt from her mentor in designing whole shows herself, and going on to win prestigious awards for her work – the cycle of the theatre and the importance of handing down wisdom from those who possess it is never more evident.

As Ann summarises it meaningfully, “the theatre is a continuing, changing, evolving, emotional ball”. It’s raw, it’s alive, it needs people, it needs stories, it needs documentation of history to remember all that came before.

In periods where there can physically be no new theatre, it’s made ever the more clear for the need not to forget what value there is in the tales to be told from the past.

Through this retrospective, we’ve seen the tour de force influence of a relatively small handful of women shaping a relatively large portion of the visual scape of some of Broadway’s brightest moments.

But it’s significant to consider how disproportionate this female impact was, in contrast with how massively male dominated the rest of the creative theatre industry has been across the last century.

Assessing variations in attitudes and approaches to relationships and families in these women in the context of their professional careers over this time period presents interesting observations. And indeed, manners in which things have changed over the past hundred years.

As Ann Hould-Ward speaks of her experiences, one of her reflections is how much this was a “very male dominated world”. And one that didn’t accommodate for women with families who also wanted careers. As an intern, she didn’t even feel she could tell Patricia Zipprodt about the existence of her own young child until after 6 months of working with her. With all of these male figures around them, it would be often questioned “How are you going to do the work? How are you going to manage [with a family]?”, and that it was “harder to convince people that you were going to be able to do out-of-towns, to be able to go places.” Simply put, the industry “didn't have many designers who were married with children.”

Patricia herself in the previous generation demonstrates this restricting ethos. “In 1993, Zipprodt married a man whose proposal she had refused some 43 years earlier.” She had just newly graduated college and “she declined [his proposal] and instead moved to New York.” Faced with the family or career conundrum, she chose the latter. By the 1950s, it then wasn’t seen as uncommon to have both, it was seen as impossible.

Her husband died just five years after the pair were married in 1998, as did Patricia herself the following year. One has to wonder if alternative decisions would’ve been made and lives lived differently if she’d experienced a different context for working women in her younger life.

But occupying any space in the theatre at all was only possible because of the efforts of and strides made by women in previous generations.

When Aline Bernstein first started designing for Broadway theatre in 1916, women couldn’t even vote. She became the first female member of the United Scenic Artists of America union in 1926, but only because she was sworn in under the false and male moniker of brother Bernstein. In fact, biographies often centralise on her involvement in a “passionate” extramarital love affair with novelist Thomas Wolfe – disproportionately so for all of her remarkable contributions to the theatrical, charitable and academic worlds, and instead having her life defined through her interactions with men.

As such, it is apparent how any significant interactions with men often had direct implications over a woman’s career, especially in this earlier half of the century. Only in their absence was there comparative capacity to flourish professionally.

Irene Sharaff had no notable relationships with men. She did however have a significant partnership with Chinese-American painter and writer Mai-mai Sze from “the mid-1930s until her death”. Though this was not (nor could not be) publicly recognised or documented at the time, later by close acquaintances the pair would be described as a “devoted couple”, “inseparable”, and as holding “love and admiration for one another [that] was apparent to everyone who knew them.” This manner of relationship for Irene in the context of her career can be theorised as having allowed her the capacity to “reach a level of professional success that would have been unthinkable for most straight women of [her] generation”.

Moving forwards in time, Irene and Mai-mai presently rest where their ashes are buried under “two halves of the same rock” at the entrance to the Music and Meditation Pavilion at Lucy Cavendish College in Cambridge, which was “built following a donation by Sharaff and Sze”. I postulate that this site would make for an interesting slice of history and a perhaps more thought-provoking deviation for tourists away from being shepherded up and down past King’s College on King’s Parade as more usually upon a visit to Cambridge.

In this more modern society at the other end of this linear tree of remarkable designers, options for women to be more open and in control of their personal and professional lives have increased somewhat.

Ann Hould-Ward later in her career would no longer “hide that [she] was a mother”, in fear of not being taken seriously. Rather, she “made a concerted effort to talk about [her] child”, saying “because at that point I had a modicum of success. And I thought it was supportive for other women that I could do this.”

If one aspect passed down between these women in history are details of the craft and knowledge accrued along the way, this statement by Ann represents an alternative facet and direction that teaching of the future can take. Namely, that by showing through example, newer generations will be able to comprehend the feasibility of occupying different options and spaces as professional women. Existing not just as designers, or wives, or mothers, or all, or one – but as people, who possess an immense talent and skill. And that it is now not just possible, but common, to be multifaceted and live the way you want to live while working.

This is not to say all of the restrictions and barriers faced by women in previous generations have been removed, but rather that as we build a larger wealth of history of women acting with autonomy and control to refer back to, things can only get easier to build upon for the future.

Who knows what Broadway and theatre in general will look like when it returns – both on the surface with respect to this facet of costume design, and also more deeply as to the inner machinations of how shows are put together and presented. The largely male environment and the need to tick corporate and commercial boxes will not have vanished. One can only hope that this long period of stasis will have foregrounded the need and, most importantly, provided the time to revaluate the ethos in which shows are often staged, and the ways in which minority groups – like women – are able to work and be successful within the theatre in all of the many shows to come.

Notable sources:

Photographs – predominantly from the New York Public Library digital archives. IBDB – the Internet Broadway Database. Broadway Nation Podcast (Eps. #17 and #18), David Armstrong, featuring Ann Hould-Ward, 2020. Behind the Curtain: Broadway’s Living Legends Podcast (Ep. #229), Robert W Schneider and Kevin David Thomas, featuring Ann Hould-Ward, 2020. Sense of Occasion, Harold Prince, 2017. Everything Was Possible: The Birth of the Musical ‘Follies’, Ted Chapin, 2003. Finishing the Hat: Collected Lyrics (1954–1981) with Attendant Comments, Principles, Heresies, Grudges, Whines and Anecdotes, Stephen Sondheim, 2010. The Complete Book of 1970s Broadway Musicals, Dan Deitz, 2015. The Complete Book of 1980s Broadway Musicals, Dan Dietz, 2016. Inventory of the Patricia Zipprodt Papers and Designs at the New York Public Library, 2004 – https://www.nypl.org/sites/default/files/archivalcollections/pdf/thezippr.pdf Extravagant Crowd’s Carl Van Vecten’s Portraits of Women, Aline Bernstein – http://brbl-archive.library.yale.edu/exhibitions/cvvpw/gallery/bernstein.html Jewish Heroes & Heroines of America: 150 True Stories of American Jewish Heroism – Aline Bernstein, Seymour Brody, 1996 – https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/aline-bernstein Ann Hould-Ward Talks Original “Into the Woods” Costume Designs, 2016 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EPe77c6xzo&ab_channel=Playbill American Theatre Wing’s Working in the Theatre series, The Design Panel, 1993 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sp-aMQHf-U&t=2167s&ab_channel=AmericanTheatreWing Journal of the History of Ideas Blog, Mai-mai Sze and Irene Sharaff in Public and in Private, Erin McGuirl, 2016 – https://jhiblog.org/2016/05/16/mai-mai-sze-and-irene-sharaff-in-public-and-in-private/ Irene Sharaff’s obituary, The New York Times, Marvine Howe, 1993 – https://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/17/obituaries/irene-sharaff-designer-83-dies-costumes-won-tony-and-oscars.html Obituary: Irene Sharaff, The Independent, David Shipman, 2011 – https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-irene-sharaff-1463219.html Broadway Design Exchange – Florence Klotz – https://www.broadwaydesignexchange.com/collections/florence-klotz Obituary: Florence Klotz, The New York Times, 2006 – https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/obituaries/03klotz.html

162 notes · View notes

kuekyuuq · 3 years

Text

Gloria, Jet-lags and Imps [6x11]

Let’s jump right in:

Kinda love how Kara lamp-shaded addressed the fact she didn't tell the gang about her adventures in the PZ. She’s not wrong, tho.

...what do I want to say about Mxy using what's basically a well-known gay-anthem to tell his tale? I mean, it didn’t lead anywhere. The original song is about freeing oneself, liberation, stepping out of a (gone bad) relationship and moving on, stronger for it - empowerment. The only connection I could make, is that originally it was Nyxly’s aim to just do that (freeing herself and her kind from an oppressor), but in the way Mxy performed it, that part of the parallel was long over before he even reached the chorus. It’s also a popular Karaoke song, tho, so... he chose it because it’s catchy? I’ll try not to overthink it for now. At least, the Superfriend’s reactions were fun.

Nia exiting the elevator, "And what's this Old Stone?" I love it when ppl enter a room / situation and pick up on words that they couldn't have possibly heard. I think cinema sins ding such... Are we to assume, she dreamed Mxy's rendition of ‘I will survive’? Or is the elevator not sound-proof at all? (If it’s the latter, Nia later apparently telling Brainy “in private” between scenes / during the elevator ride about her Nyxly adventures, was a silly thing to do.)

So, "Jared" created the ring Old Stone to rule them all, it got shattered into the Paragons totems? Nyxly needs the totems and to get them she needs a crystal which also belonged to "Jared" - who happens to be Mxy's ancestor, which is why she needs Mxy / his blood, too.

I have one important and incredibly relevant question here, tho...

With the introduced imps and their names... Why’s dude named Jared of all things?!

Really, did I mishear that? If so, I’ll leave it as is and never edit, bc that would be hilarious in its own right 😋

...

Not sure what to make about Supergirl paraphrasing a Dirty Dancing quote. "Nobody puts Mxy into a power crystal on my watch." ...is he Baby now? (Seriously, though: Which of the writers thought that was a fitting quote to use in that particular context?)

...now, is the exposition section of the episode over yet?

Sensitive Brainy sensed something was up with Nia. He can relate... Nia doubting Kara would understand, too, is ridiculous. But I get it... insecurities and all. But, I mean, just 5 minutes later Kara announces she wants to save Nyxly despite her wrongdoings. And yet Nia still remains convinced, Kara wouldn’t forgive her own personal mini-me... After having witnessed Kara forgiving Lena for a whole season of the writers being stupid messing up to the nth degree. But I digress, Lena’s Lena.

...how old is Nia meant to be again? Just asking out of completely unrelated curiosity.

F*ck. They really went with NewFoundland...

Imma assume it was an executive choice after realizing they couldn’t find enough actors and actresses with a convincing Irish accent... maybe. Again, no offense to Newfoundland! Just... we got the insinuations of Ireland, not Newfoundland... And truthfully, when I think of magic, Ireland is an easy association. Whereas I only due to this whole debacle learned Newfoundland has Irish ancestry. So, okay, the show forced me to learn something new... I give ‘em that.

An easy journey, she said.

Lena's been off-screen for two whole episodes, Kara announcing at the beginning of ‘Dreamweaver’ [6x09] Lena being “back east” (at least insinuating Lena’s left the west-coast already), which span over at least one full day (feat. a scene at night), and ‘I still rise’ [6x10] at least another a whole day (the whole Nia’s mom back for a day deal). And, now, after at least 48 hours she barely just arrived.

Lemme check how long a regular plane would need to fly from California to NFL......... ... .. .. So... approx. 10 hours with at least one layover.

Yeah, using a private jet made it easier, but apparently also much, much slower...

Or, Lena randomly went some other places / did some sight-seeing in NFL before she decided to finally visit her mother’s hometown... [Either that or the timelines don’t match up and Lena’s scenes are flashbacks of sorts.]

Optimistic and relaxed Lena is a sight to behold. I rewound 3 times, just to enjoy it for as long as possible. We all knew it was going to be short-lived...

Let’s check off a few more items...

OMG, Kara hiding behind Alex at the mere sight of the PZ-projector broke my heart! 😢

"Elisabeth Walsh" is the new 'the one you shall not name'. ...poor Lena. 😭

Oh, so Mxy wants to be Patrick Swayze instead of Baby... gotcha.

...is this going anywhere?

KITTY!!! Okay, this must be the best opponent in the history of CWSG.

Despite the horrible CGI, SG using her heat-vision to project a laser-beam to distract the cat had me in (happy-) tears! 🤣

Gotta love the civilians of National City quickly returning to business as usual once the giant cat is gone. Even the police officers looked rather chill...

Nyxly did look fabulous this episode ^^

Andrea being Lena's rock is both great and annoying. I can't fault Andrea. It's just, that we still have to see an on-screen interaction between Lena and Kara and that bugs the heck out of me. I can’t help it. I’m sorry, Andrea.

Nia: "...is my fault." Kara: "Nu, is MY fault!" J'onn: "Stop fighting, kids!" Space-dad has spoken.

Mxy used an LuthorCorp copy machine... and of cos it's faulty. It's not an L-Corp product.

Kara forgiving Nia came as a surprise to her... Oooookay. I mean, the show has been writing Kara a bit inconsistently the past two seasons... so, yeah, maybe being unsure which of her traits apply this week was not such a far stretch...

Maybe it's the hair, but I wished, Florence was played by Alex Kingston.

So, not-Alex-Kingston shows Lena herself with a funny wig and tells her how her mother was still watching her...

If it wasn't for Katie's acting skills (I love her.) I would have already hit my head against the wall repeatedly. Something about these scenes had me constantly cringe and I made it through 5.5 seasons of this show already... Can’t quite put my finger on it, but it was highly distracting from the story that explained Lena’s mom was special even to another witch, where there was domestic abuse, and an accidental murder. Y’know, important stuff, deep-cutting stuff!

At least, poor widddle Lena got some closure there. Elisabeth was a good cookie. And filled with magic. And Lena’s gotta have that ‘spark’, too...

....so... Lena’s gonna stay in NFL for how much longer, to train becoming a witch? Please, just hand her a how-to manual and send her back home, to figure it out on her own, please... (Yes, that would be horrible decision-making, but I need her back with the team!)

On to the finish line:

So... Mxy IS Nyxly's brother? Wait, that doesn’t sound right... then Nyxly would have the same blood... Did I miss something? Can someone explain, please? Or is he her ex, and that’s where his rendition of “I will survive” makes sense?

Hnn... I can't help, but think Kara's speech for Nyxly was 85% based on her experiences with Lena in s05.

Awww... he said "stronger together"... Mxy... I hope, you'll be okay!

Lena believes in magic now. And I absolutely love how Lena wants to science magic XD

...but apparently magic isn’t science that hasn’t been explained yet, but parallel... powers? concepts? ether strings?

Nyxly has a loyal henchman now. Which was a bit heavy-handed. Took way too much of screen-time, so it better leads to something interesting.

And Kara is on a warpath now. Wooooot! Girl’s got enough.

...what else?

Did I miss a third Patrick Swayze hint / quote / mention? I learned, these things come in threes... Y’know, basic writing rules...

I guess, for once the episode title was meant to be taken literally, Mxy popping up between characters, to try and help. (I need in-show footage, of Mxy sneaking up on ppl, without his powers, on all fours / crouched, just to get the desired effect.) I mean, I’ve never really watched Malcom, but wasn’t he like what Mxy usually is? A bit of a trouble-maker, prankster, chaos-ensuing wherever he goes? ...well, in that case, the episode title didn’t hold up, as Mxy’s scenes were not fun or really goofy. Yes, there was some superficial humor, but just to serve Mxy dealing with not being able to use his powers, which in turn was only barely scratched at (although it turned out to be his final character development crisis, appreciating not having powers and - in turn - facing consequences for once). Again, a whole lot going on in the episode, so a lot of that may have ended up on the cutting-room floor.

...where’s Kelly? Secretly adopting a kid, maybe?

...Kara’s still a reporter, right? I mean, whenever it serves the immediate plot, yes? ...Not even a throw-away line, that she has to pop up at CatCo for appearances sake? Since Andrea is already upset with her AND looking into her friends’ identities? At least, Kara should take a peek to make sure Andrea hasn’t uncovered anything yet... No?

Well, that’s all I’ve got for now. Kue out.

#Supergirl #supercorp #Mxy in the middle #6x11 #mxy #nyxly #lena luthor #magic #lena's mom #fiction dissected #fandom #episode #Nia nal #dreamer #brainy #brainia

28 notes · View notes

hamliet · 3 years

Note

when does a relationship become queerbaiting? theres a book that i really like and the 2 male leads characters have a lot of storylines and arcs where they get closer and i think some of the tropes used can be similar to the typical romantic tropes, neither of them end up with anyone at the end of the story since its more about found family and the long journey the whole cast goes through. they even get shipped by another character as a running gag. personally i always saw it as being open to interpretation but recently the revised edition of the original novel came out and there were several lines those 2 characters had about each other that were kinda toned down, i didnt think much of it but i saw a post about how it was clearly baiting and the author was being homophobic for toning it down. i didnt think it counted as baiting since as far as i know, the novel was never advertised as anything with romance and the author never pretended they were gonna end up together. i am definitely a little weirded out by the decision to change those specific lines but a lot of the story stayed the same, including a lot about their relationship so idk what to think.

i guess im more confused on if it counts as baiting, or even substext??

Sooooo I am not the best person to ask about this, because I’m a cis woman who has thus far in life only been attracted in a romantic sense to cis men. I can talk a bit about baiting as a general concept in fiction, but you should definitely take it with some grains of salt.

Baiting, for me, is like deliberately playing up an aspect writers have no intention on delivering on. Usually this is done for ratings, to tease fans, fanservice, etc, but without payoff, it is just bad writing. Red herrings are good in writing, but only can be successfully used if the actual result is more satisfying than the herring. This applies to writing in general, not just to romantic ships. However, when the baiting involves historically underrepresented groups for no reason other than to get fans to spend money consuming the story, I think we can all agree that becomes something more grotesque than just bad writing: it’s insensitive, socially irresponsible, frankly hurtful.

Some common examples are Bridgerton which has a gay character, who is extremely minor, yet they played up this character in advertising. Also, Rizzoli and Isles I think actually had its producers mention deliberately playing up the lesbian subtext to hook the audience without ever intending on following through.

That said, context also matters. Like, there are aspects of the culture of the work’s author, the target audience, and such that come into play here also (so like, romantic tropes differ by culture. For example, enemies to lovers is common in Asian stories but less in the west, and the “girl who pursues a guy” is extremely common in Japanese shonen in particular, while it is very much a cringe trope that almost never results in romance in American fiction. So if a writer reads, say, tropes that are common in America into a Japanese work and says it’s baiting, that’s quite possibly not the intent even if it may have been the experience of the reader. So even if there was no intent, there can still be hurt, and that hurt can be real, if that makes sense.

The definition of what constitutes ‘baiting’ varies. I do think that, in true Tumblr fashion, the term gets thrown around a lot and loses its intended meaning, or is so rigidly defined that creators can meet the letter of the “not a bait” requirement while ignoring the spirit of it.

To start with the latter: regarding something hitting the letter of what most wouldn’t consider baiting yet not really the spirit, let’s look at The Rise of Skywalker. This movie had a genuine lesbian kiss in it... between two characters we’d never seen more than a glimpse of while others are celebrating around them. Since it has a kiss, it’s not baiting, right? Well... the director deliberately said in the lead-up to the film that he included it because he “wanted LGBT people to see themselves in the film.” If “see yourselves in the film” is like a nanosecond of background, then, like... idk. Baiting or not, it feels icky, and I know some people consider it baiting and some don’t even if they don’t like, love that representation. But I think this is more queerbaiting than like, Nobara and Maki, who don’t have explicit romantic coding.

Going back to the former, in terms of ‘queerbaiting’ losing its intended meaning... I think there are a lot of really poorly written romantic ships out there, often het, while a lot of same-gender relationships are really well written regardless of whether there’s romantic coding within the text. The main emotional energy in stories with 90% male characters (as frankly many if not most stories are, great job world) is probably between two men. There’s just so much more potential with well-written characters who share a lot of screen time, so of course people are going to ship them. In my opinion, this does not inherently make it baiting, but it certainly creates an environment that lends itself to baiting even if the writers aren’t intending to do this.

Like, you could say the main emotional energy in BNHA is Bakugou and Deku. However, Bakudeku is 100% not queerbaiting. It’ll never be canon romantically (I don’t even ship it lol). There has been nothing to imply romance between them even if the main emotional message can be seen in their development. Deku/Ochaco is likely to be canon, but there is a significant lack of genuine emotional energy between them (the story’s plots and themes don’t coalesce around their relationship), so it’s probably going to feel forced. In contrast, Naruto/Sasuke had an actual kiss in canon, which while played for laughs is a lot more direct romantic coding than anything between Bakugou/Deku. I actually don’t think the majority of Narusasu is baiting, but I definitely think that one moment in chapter like 3 was really poor fanservice for yaoi fans, and has not aged well at all.

It is also the case that fans can confuse headcanons with what is actually in the text, and that just never ends well. For example, Clover and Qrow’s ship in RWBY: a lot of people read Clover as gay, which led to “bury your gays” outrage when he died. A member of the crew stated explicitly they had never intended for Clover to be a love interest for Qrow, and truthfully here was nothing strictly romantic in their relationship--nothing like a kiss or a declaration of love or a parallel to another romantic couple. Hence, I don’t personally consider it queerbaiting or bury your gays, but a lot of fans felt that it was and their pain is legitimate even if I think textually the argument isn’t there. The one thing I do think is true about this in particular is that there was also no strict platonic coding, which encourages headcanons. Clear writing, yo. It can help.

Note the word “can” not “will,” because strict platonic coding doesn’t always fix things, either. In what was probably a reaction to the outrage over Clover’s death, you had extremely blatant platonic coding of Ruby and Penny’s relationship this season leading up to Penny’s death. Ruby refers to Penny as “our friend” three different times, wherein “friend” sends a platonic message and “our” sends an even stronger message that it’s not about the two of them despite the fact that their friendship is one of the sweetest and most interesting in the show. A lingering Ruby-Penny hug then is followed by a lingering Penny-Weiss hug, then Yang, then Blake, etc. The writers went out of their way to hit people over the head with “platonic” and yet they have still gotten accusations of bury your gays and queerbaiting because people will see what they want to see in a story.

Seeing what you want to see in a story also isn’t inherently bad. People who are underrepresented are going to have to read themselves into stories because Lord knows writers ain’t incorporating them well enough if at all. It’s why “Mary Sues” are common in fanfiction, which is primarily written by people who are not straight white men: because where the hell else are we to see ourselves in fiction? So essentially the macrocosm of culture creates this problem, both in terms of baiting and the misuse of the term, and the only fix is a shit ton more good representation.

#ask hamliet #writing stuff #Anonymous

24 notes · View notes

lenskij · 3 years

Text

The StoryGraph's Translation Challenge 2021 - a reflection

Today I just finished this 10 prompt reading challenge! I had so much fun doing it, especially since I’ve for years wanted to expand my reading beyond the same old and familiar I’ve been reading until now, but I didn’t come around to actually do it until I came across The StoryGraph's Translation Challenge 2021.

The rules are: pick a book for each prompt that has been translated from a language that isn’t English. For myself, I added another rule - it can’t be translated from any language I speak, either. I also wanted to find an individual book for each prompt - if there was a book that would fit in two prompts, I counted it for only one of them and chose another for the other.

I wanted to share my little translation journey with everyone here, hence this post. The prompts, what book I chose for each, and my thoughts on them are below the cut!

Also: I’m always on the lookout for non-English books! Bonus points if they’re from outside of Europe ^w^ Hit me up with your recommendations!

1. A translated fantasy or sci-fi novel

Stanisław Lem: Солярис (Solaris) Translated from Polish to Russian by Д. Брускин

This book has been living on my sister’s bookshelf for years, and while I was visiting her I read it. It didn’t impress me in any way, it felt like any regular old sci-fi, although a bit creepy (and just a lil dash of sexism).

2. A book written by a Black woman in translation

Marie NDiaye: La Cheffe (La Cheffe) Translated from French to Swedish by Maria Björkman

This is a lovely novel, even if it focused on French food - and the detailed descriptions reminded me that French food is overrated. I loved the character la Cheffe, it was highly enjoyable to read about her relationship to people and her profession, and the narrator had sweet heart eyes that shined through the text.

3. A translated book originally published before 1950

Choderlos de Laclos: Farliga förbindelser (Les Liaisons dangereuses) Translated from French to Swedish by Arvid Enckell.

This prompt was the easiest to fulfill, and I had several choices for it. I've spoken about this book elsewhere on this here blog - it's morbidly fascinating to read about terrible, terrible people.

4. A translated non-fiction book

Romaric Godin: Klasskriget i Frankrike (La guerre sociale en France) Translated from French to Swedish by Johan Wollin

For this prompt, I went to a local bookstore and asked the seller for help. She had to dig around for a while before she found something that wasn't originally written in English - like she pointed out, most academics choose to write in English, even if they're not native speakers.

I picked this one because I've seen snapshots of the yellow wests in the news, but I know barely any of the context. Although the book is short, it's a pretty detailed overview of recent French economic history, with an emphasis on explaining why and how French neo-liberalism ended up looking like it is today (and why French neo-liberalism is different from the neo-liberalism in the rest od Europe). This tickled my inner economics nerd.

5. A translated novel 500 pages or longer

Isabel Allende: Andarnas hus (La Casa de los Espíritus) Translated from Spanish to Swedish by Lena Anér Melin

Another book that has been sitting on my sister's shelf! I absolutely loved it - a family saga, in a time of social change. Look, my favourite part about any book is when the characters feel like humans, even if they're not relatable, I can still understand them.

6. A book translated from Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish or Icelandic

Vigdis Hjorth: Arv och miljö (Arv og miljø) Translated from Norwegian to Swedish by Ninni Holmqvist

In my case, it meant a book translated from either Danish, Norwegian or Icelandic (I do have to pepper in the fact that I'm a polyglot, after all). It's my sister who recommended it to me, and she was right when she said this was good! I loved the three separate timelines, the prose, and the family drama.

7. A translated book by a South American author

María Sonia Cristoff: Håll mig utanför (Inclúyanme afuera) Mariana Enríquez: Det vi förlorade i elden (Las cosas que perdimos en el fuego)Translated from Spanish to Swedish by Hanna Axén

What? Two books?? Yes, when I searched the library catalogue it spit out these two - because they have the same translator - and since they both seemed interesting I checked both of them out.

Unfortunately, these are the two books of this challenge that I liked the least. The first one didn't have a premise that worked with me - the main character chose to listen more than she spoke for a year as an experiment, and as an introvert, to whom this is how I've always lived my life, it was hard for me to understand what the big deal was.

The second was just my personal taste - these short stories had bloody ghosts, and ended abruptly without quite resolving the story - that creepiness just doesn't vibe with me.

8. A translated book by a Chinese author

Eileen Chang: Ett halvt liv av kärlek (Banshengyuan) Translated from Chinese to Swedish by Anna Gustafsson Chen

After quite a slow start I suddenly was drawn into this book. It's such a lovely read on when life doesn't always work out the way you want, and you still do your best to be happy. It felt very real, without being a 'happily ever after', or it's opposite of endless tears - that sweet middle ground spot.

9. A book translated from Arabic

Rajaa Alsanea: Flickorna från Riyadh (Banāt al-Riyāḍ) Translated from Arabic to Swedish by Tetz Rooke

I found this when messing around with the "similar books"-algorithm on Storygraph (I've just finished Unmarriageable, and liked it a so much I wanted to find something similar). When this one popped out I noticed the Arabic author name, and checked it out from the library. I've actually never read any book set in the Middle East, and I loved seeing a glimpse of life there (naturally, this isn't a comprehensive illustration - the main characters were all from well-off families). The most interesting thing was how the characters adjusted their behaviour as they travelled between Europe and Saudi Arabia - the social rules are different depending on where you are (and if you meet a fellow Saudi in London, your day is ruined - because suddenly you have to behave in accordance to Saudi rules).

10. A book translated from a language spoken in India

Vivek Shanbhag: Ghachar ghochar (Ghāchar ghōchar) Translated from Kannada to English by Srinath Perur; translated to Swedish by Peter Samuelsson

At first I was cranky about that this is a translation of a translation - but in the acknowledgements I read that it was the author's request that the book is to be translated from English. I assume it's because the English translator already has made the inevitable tradeoffs between language and form, which the author approved, and so the Swedish translator wouldn't have to make the decisions all over again.

This was a short book, just over a hundred pages. It barely had any plot, but it didn't need any - the description of the family members' relationship to each other was juicy enough.

In conclusion

This challenge was a great opportunity for me to also try genres I never would have tried otherwise - I was limited to what my library had, and especially for the smaller languages, it's a limited choice. I've been talking about this translation challenge to everyone I know because I've had so much fun! And the best part is - it's only ten prompts. That means I wouldn't need to scram to finish it in time, even while also reading the regular same old books I do still want to read. While I'm waiting for the 2022 challenge, I'll be doing another round for these prompts - I've already checked out a short story collection originally written in Tamil, and a nonfiction about Syrian resistance originally written in Arabic :)

#liz talks #books #i had so much fun guys!#do give me translation recs :D #look the only thing that brings me joy nowadays are books and talking about books #but i also feel inspired to write an evil onegin essay so maybe im slowly turning back into my old self #for better or worse lol #thank you to everyone who actually read the entire post i do really appreciate it

13 notes · View notes

botwstoriesandsuch · 3 years

Text

Back here with another episode of:

Read Part 1 here!

If you’re on mobile, and tumblr hates this post, follow along on this google doc!

Rules/overview this rewrite in the beginning of Part 1

Alrighty then, so let’s just jump into it!

- - - - - - - - - -

Recap! So when we last left off, we had just finished off Act 1 of the story. We’ve used the character introduction segments and the gambit feature as a means to give more life to everyone, without sacrificing too much cutscene time. Allowing us to save and focus the major story details and set up on the more cinematic cutscenes.

I had forgotten, but after Part 1 came out, an anon pointed out that Impa’s character introduction could use some work, and while you don’t need to read it right now to understand the rest of this post, I encourage you to look at it eventually to see the strengths and flaws in the original Impa introduction, and the reasons for my rewrite changes! All you need to know is that eggbot was lying around, deactivated, but when in proximity to the Sheikah Slate, was turned on like other Guardians. Eggbot being activated by the Sheikah Slate is kinda brushed over in the original game? But in my rewrite it’s gonna have some later significance. Also during the Royal Lab cutscene, I want Robbie or Purah to mention how Zelda’s control of the Sheikah Slate is quite exceptional or something. It’s a bit obvious already in Hwaoc, but I need it to be verbally said in a story scene for, again, later significance. Alright that’s it for my added details, moving on now.

After Chapter 1, we moved into the characters accepting the Call to Adventure, whether by the general external reasons of wanting to save the world, and developed a little bit further with more internal related reasons to give nuances and identities to different characters. Revali wishes to prove that his hard work earns him better merit than a sidekick, Urbosa wishes to protect and help Zelda on an emotional level, Mipha wishes to get closer to Link and come back to her family proud, etc etc.

Then, the climax of Act 1 ends with the Yiga ambush, and the characters get a first taste of leaving their areas of comfort, and journeying into the unknown world. Although the gameplay and the successful defeat of the Yiga establishes the Champion team’s strength, our interaction with Rhoam shows us that they still have a ways to go. The momentum into the full story now has a bit of tension and conflict.

So now we crash into the beginning of Act 2, the longest Act in a story, as it’s the part where the....story, happens. Let’s take a look at changes to the Hollows, eggbot mysteries, Zelda character growth, and our first real dip into the character of our antagonist, the Prophet of Doom himself, Astor…

So in the game, Chapter 3 opens on the flank of Death Mountain, our heroes overlooking the view of Korok Forest.

There are a few problems I have with this scene. It’s really stale, there’s no movement, nothing dynamic about it other than the opening shot. They just kinda stand there and say words until Revali’s done ranting and summons Medoh. Also Revali’s dialogue is a bit “much” to say the least, and uh, spoiler alert, he’s gonna be reworked a bit more than the other Champions. Finally, this scene doesn’t have a lot of purpose or substance. Sure, it has some character conflict with Revali and Link and the team, but that’s kinda established already, plus it’s something that I’ve already fleshed out in the last scene with King Rhoam, so it’s a bit redundant. So that leaves this scene serving only as a boring current draw to the Medoh fight and nothing else. This is the opening set up for the Chapter where important story stuff goes down! Needs a lot more substance. So! Here’s my rework.

We open on the sound of running. Link, along with Zelda, Urbosa, Daruk, and Mipha are running upwards on a path by Edlin. They’re chasing a small group of bokoblins and it looks like it’s the end of the fight. Urbosa is more near the back, with Zelda, but Daruk and Mipha both kill a bokoblin, their bodies of the monsters exploding in a cloud of malice upon their demise. When the camera shows each of their kills, the shots are quick, but I want the angle of the camera to be in such a way that the malice evaporates center frame, with Daruk and Mipha being behind the malice. This is because for a split second, it looks like the malice lingers around them like smoke. Huh, I wonder if that’s foreshadowing or something.

Anyhow, Link chases the final red bokoblin uphill, boots pattering against rock. However, we’re now seeing this from a moving, flying, bird’s eye view [quite literally wink wink]

Cut back close to Link, he kills the bokoblins. Stands there for a sec as he sheathes his sword. And then...

“Well I’ll be plucked. You defeated it, eh?”

Reveal Revali flying from above, and he lands in front of Link, but faces away from him. “Who would have thought that some little knight, amongst a group of chosen heroes, would get some action. You must be pretty proud of yourself, hm?” Cue that classic Revali head turn with a glare. Also when Revali says “heroes” I want him to flick his scarf dramatically, while staring at Link’s armour, as if internally he were judging Link on a runway.

Zelda runs up and starts speaking. “Oh Revali, I apologize our meet up with Medoh got a bit delayed. I assume that you’ve already positioned them by now for the attack?”

Revali hums a yes, but doesn’t bother to entertain a more fleshed out answer. Instead, he flicks his wing (as if to say, “come on”) and turns his back to walk up the trail. The others follow.

“I was informed that only the Champions and yourself would be present. What are…” Revali flicks a wing in the direction of Link and eggbot, like a Karen shooing a waiter. “...they, exactly contributing?”

Zelda says some stuff about Link being her bodyguard like: “Well, my father was impressed enough with Link’s actions from the other week that he’s assigned to give me further protection.’ She can say this a bit grumpily, to Link’s ignorance. Daruk can pipe in like “And a good thing too! Always great to have little guy at our backs.” and Mipha can nod sheepishly or something. But their dialogue is cut off by another rude interjection (because hell if Revali wants to listen to more rambling about Link)

“Right, right. And this thing is still around?” Revali gestures to eggbot.

Zelda: “Well, This little one's technological prowess has been quite useful in battle, allowing us to access the rune functions and all. So I figured it’d be a big help should something unexpected happen. Plus...” cute shot of Zelda staring at eggbot, “it just...feels right.” Then the little eggshit can like, chirp happily or make some cute whistle or whatever. Just shove in a bit of that egg fanservice, might as well since I need to better establish its presence for later.

Revali mutters something about “big help,” before gesticulating with his wings as he continues walking up the trial. “Mooore like a big liability should anything happen to your little pet, and one of us be forced to risk our lives just to save it from becoming scrap. Honestly, when it comes to you, and you.” Revali points to both eggbot and Link, “Your presence is an entire waste of time. ‘Backup?’ Help?’ Tsk. Humouring.” Eggbot can make a noise or something while Link just tilts his head. Revali continues: “You’re only here because of a non-existent, fantastical, imaginary hypothetical in which I somehow fail, and I don’t, fail.” When he articulates that last part, he stops walking and does another little head turn/glare, but he still doesn’t bother to fully face him. “I’m sure that your duty will no longer be of importance once your reputation...is nothing but a memory overshadowed by today’s great feats. A forgettable knight, heh heh!”

“Revali,” Urbosa sighs, “How long do you expect us to put up with your showboating and prattle?”

That when Revali finally turns fully to face the group, with a more grim glare. They’ve reached the top of the ledge anyhow, so they’ve stopped walking. This is where the camera can view the Lost Woods in its fullest as it zooms on Revali. Then, that ending is the same as the game with the pan up to Medoh’s presence.

“Fine. I’ve said enough. The time has come to show you what I’m made of. Now witness...Vah Medoh’s divine power!”

So that’s that. Revali is toned down a bit, and his rude remarks have more of a precision as to their point. It’s a bit hard to explain over words alone, but the fact that this scene takes place as the Champions are walking up the trail, means it’s a lot more interesting to look at. (Kinda like the walk and talk premise that you see in The West Wing) Plus, the trail being uphill establishes that hint of power dynamic as Revali is above everyone else. Also there’s just a bit of some botw dialogue connection, not only in just the opening, [Hwaoc Revali vs Botw Revali “Who would have thought” is put in different context based on their development, so it’s a good establishing point to show where this Revali is at in dynamics with Link in comparison to botw, all in just one line rather than in a more longer explanation] but I also scattered a few dramatic irony pieces in there heheh. There’s a lot more reasons why this scene is an improvement [and hopefully to you, it already *feels* better] but I’m not going to explain them until near the end, as its importance is connected to the later scenes of this Chapter.

In fact, that's the overarching change that I’ve made to these cutscenes, I’ve actually connected them and related them to the other scenes. This is the very first introduction to Chapter 3, after all, so it’s important that this introduction serves to be of more significance than “ok here’s the champions, here’s revali, there's medoh. Now go wreck stuff.”

Medoh’s fight is the same, the cutscenes after are mostly the same. Except here, when everyone runs into Korok forest and you see Astor, I want this scene to end not on Astor’s face (because it’s not as significant anymore since we’ve already see Astor in full in Chapter 2 with Urbosa’s stage) but it should end with Astor reaching out a hand towards the camera. The camera angle would be just a bit below Astor. This is because I want the implication to be slightly more clear that he killed those two Yiga underlings to craft the Hollows. It’s a nice little “watch it for the first time it doesn’t mean anything” but watching again it’s like “ohh how did I not notice that” kind of thing.

Then, Hestu’s introduction is roughly the same. I don’t think I really need to rework it too much, since Hestu as a character doesn’t serve anything major to the plot, so it’s fine for it to just be fun and cute. I will however, change just a few pieces of dialogue.

Revali: “Are we even making progress? We could just be going in circles.”

Daruk: “Good point. If only someone could fly above and scout the way.”

Revali: “As though I could see anything through this muck. Honestly, do you even think before you speak?”

Revali!!! Don’t be so rude to Daruk. Like yes it’s a bit funny, but that last part with “do you even think before you speak” is a bit much, because honestly Revali doesn’t really have a reason to hate Daruk. He’s characterized as being rude to Link and those he deems unworthy of respect, but Revali respects Daruk, Mipha, and Urbosa fairly well, considering they were chosen alongside him. So personally, I’d just tweak this to

Daruk: “Good point. If only someone could fly above and scout the way...”

Mipha snickers at this. And Revali mutters more quietly to himself, “As though I could see anything through this muck.” and gives little “hmph!” at Daruk, moving away.

There we go! It still serves it purpose of showing how the Champions are still not completely in sync (which is what I can assume was the original purpose of Revali’s rude comment line) but it’s played a bit more comedic (which makes sense considering this is in the context of Hestu’s introduction) and we get to poke fun at Revali, since just early we had spent so long boosting up his ego. Also Mipha laughing a bit with Daruk while Revali broods adds to that point of them being too busy to see Hestu right behind them.

Another small change, I don’t want Zelda to discover Hestu first. I want eggbot to discover Hestu, maybe they shake their maraca and eggbot notices and gives a little curious whistle. When Zelda notices eggbot not walking with her, she looks right, and that’s when she notices Hestu. It’s almost insignificant, but I really want to establish the eggbot’s presence for this chapter. Especially since this game writes him out of cutscenes a lot.

Final small change. That Hestu scene ends, not with Revali wordlessly shaking his head and following the group after hanging back. But with Mipha actively turning back, saying something like “Come, Revali. We should all stick together. It wouldn’t do for us to get lost.” and then a reply like “As far as I’m concerned, when it comes to mystic swords, magic trees, lucky knights, and walking eggs...I already am.” I’m just trying to keep intact that Nintendo “vibe” of flicking the character stances right in your face, especially since this game's only forms of telling the story are through these less than a minute cutscenes.

OKAY! Gameplay stuff. There are no real mechanic or level design changes to the Battle of Korok Forest, BUT there is one important change that I want to make here.

When the party splits up to take on the bosses in order to get rid of the malice. I think that the Hollows should speak.

Not like full on sentences and stuff (yet) but I think they should mumble and groan and be able to speak a few simple words. Now why do I say this? Well, let’s take a look at how I think we should introduce them.

First off, I think it should be a cutscene. Not just some 2 second animation where the Hollows spawn in. Nonononononono, this needs to be a cutscene, because it needs to be acted, because we need to see the character reactions. Like, if you’re gonna have that cliche “dark evil clone of the protagonists” thing, then you might as well go all out with the angst. In fact, personally, I would have rewritten is as the hollows actually *being* the champions and astor can temporarily control them but then when he sees that fail later in the game that can be his motivator for making the blights to kill them off since they’re no longer of use to him alive or whatever but we’re scrapping that idea because like I've said I want to try to keep the integrity of the original story.

Ok, so you have a character come up to one of the map points, and when they get there it fades into a cutscene. It’s not gonna be super long, but here’s the vision.

Character is in the lost woods, they killed a stalbokoblin or whatever. Just some low tier enemy, and then it dies and becomes that whisp of malice. Great. Character turns to leave, but then they hear something. Like a snicker, or laughter. Cut to this angle from behind the trees, but instead of astor it’s the character you’re playing as.

They go over to investigate, creeping closer with caution, until they see a shadow. The shadow of a small figure, about no higher than Link, with a long, trident weapon.

FWOOSH! An explosion of malice, almost like a fountain behind the character. They turn just in time to block the attack, the Lightscale Trident, but yet...it’s not the Lightscale Trident, because it’s covered in malice. Hollow Mipha is striking from the air, because this is basically her fountain teleportation thing, but malice. Once the character blocks the attack, time slows just a bit so you can see Hollow Mipha’s face, and then cut to the other characters face to give them a reaction. And that’s it.

Then you can pop back into gameplay, but there should be textboxes on the bottom where you can see the character’s surprised reaction like

[Unimportant detail, but if Daruk fights his Hollow self I want his reaction to be like “Woah! I sure look grumpy. I look like I skipped breakfast.” and then his gambit attack is like “eat THIS!” Also Revali can say something about how imitation is a form of flattery]

Through that fight, the Hollows also have like one textbox and a line of Evil™ mumbling and/or laughing once they’re defeated. The laughing is kinda used in a later scene, but it’s never really seen again so I just want that to be more prevalent. You all could probably think of more angsty “evil version of you” lines that are specific to each character, but I’m just thinking stuff like “You...won’t...last” or even just *muttering*. In fact, this is another thing that I want to flesh out with my gambit feature. It not only serves as interaction between whatever two characters you’re playing as, but also as interaction between your antagonists. So if you use a gambit on Kohga, he’ll say something specific about the characters he’s fighting. Same idea with Sooga, or Astor, and now here, the Hollows can say stuff to you.

There’s gonna be someone out there more creative than me out there that can think up some cool dialogue for them, but basically what I want to establish is that we know that these Hollows are made from people’s like, souls? Or life force or whatever you wanna call it. So it wouldn’t be farfetched to give them the ability to speak. Over the course of the game, I want their textboxes/dialogue to be more and more lifelike, like without the pauses or muttering. This is because the entire point of the dialogue is not only to serve that trope of “I’m the evil you I’m gonna say stuff that emotionally impacts you mwahaha” but it also makes them just a bit more menacing in my opinion. Also overall gameplay wise, I think they need to become stronger with the Champions because idk if it was just me, but they were so easy that I just forgot about them.

So! Korok Forest Battle introduces these creepy mumbling Champions, people react and are a bit freaked out, but they eventually clear the malice and we hit the next cutscene.

This is where the shit goes down.

You all probably remember how this scene goes down so I’ll try not to spend too much time explaining it. But here’s my two cents as to why I’m gonna rewrite it a bunch. I think it’s not a good villain reveal.

Like first off, it doesn’t establish Astor as a threat. His memorable action here is the summoning of the Hollows, and while yes, they do beat up Link and that’s very good, it also let’s Link easily beat them and Astor as soon as he gets the Master Sword IN THAT SAME SCENE. There was no time to let the threat of Astor linger, and when we see Link instantly beat him once he gets his Mcguffin, it really hinders the effect of this reveal.

Secondly, everyone is just silent during this??? Like, obviously Link doesn’t say anything, but Zelda doesn’t do stuff? Astor just kinda says “kill her!” and thats about it. Zelda never says “who are you?” or “what do you want?” or anything because as far as she’s concerned this is just some random dude, he’s not Yiga or anything. Also Astor never even introduces himself?? Throughout the entire game??? So while we the player know who he is because of his fancy title card, as far as all the characters are concerned he’s just a Mystery Clown.

It’s just super weird how no one asks any questions during this scene like no one acts like a human being with common sense. In fact, one could say that no one asks any questions for this entire game. Things just happen, and happen, and happen, and everyones just kinda chill. And then Zelda just kinda receives 17 flashbacks over the course of two minutes at the end of the game like she’s speedrunning botw memory%. Obviously having an aura of mystery over the course of your game is fine, it’s good to keep questions lingering over the audience’s head. Just so long as you answer them in a satisfactory way later on. Like, that’s not something I need to spell out for you right? If you set up a question, give the audience a good answer. If you set up a mystery, give a cool explanation. If you set up an interesting character you have to give the people a pay off that was worth their investment into them, right? Right? Right? You understand right? Cause as the writer for a story, it’s you’re to explain the significance and importance of why things happen in a creative way. It’s almost as if that’s the entire purpose of storytelling, you know, an explanation of events in a compelling manner. Like please, this is a concept that you are able to grasp right? This isn’t just me right? See that’s how writing works when setting up anything ever, you gotta give an explanation to the choices you make in the plot. You gotta explain why. You gotta explain why. Explain why. Explain why. Explain, why? Explain, why? Why? Why? WHy? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? WH

Sorry I got carried away. Anyhow, here’s the rewrite.

Link and Zelda don’t enter the forest at the same time. They run through the wooden tunnel thing, and Link makes a gesture like “go!” while he stays back a bit to hold off some monsters like stal-lizalfos or something. So Zelda runs into the center of Korok Forest.

As far as any of the characters know, this is a safe haven now, this was their destination, so there’s no monsters here, so they’re good. The princess is safe, the Champions are just cleaning up in their respective corners of the forest with the Hollows, and Link is fighting off the monsters by the entrance. So while there is still tension from the battle, Zelda lets out a sigh of relief once she sees the Master Sword.

She approaches it, cautiously, but doesn’t step onto the stone pedestal, still staying a ways back in the grass. “We’re finally here,” she says to herself. “Now we just have to protect the sword, await for the hero to retrieve it, and await for destiny to arrive.” She looks down at the ground, and then at the back of her hand (fuck what hand was the one with the triforce, her left hand? I’m gonna say left hand). So she looks down at the back of her left hand, before letting it fall. She turns away from the Master Sword and to herself she just mutters, “I only wish that I could make as much progress in fulfilling my own role...in making myself to be of actual use, like the others.”

There’s a moment of silence as Zelda wraps her elbows and closes her eyes. Then,

“If that is what you wish,” a sudden voice echos, and Zelda spins around to face it, “Then perhaps I can be of some assistance.”

Cut to Astor, standing in front of the Master Sword, facing Zelda. Roughly where he is shown here, but Zelda is a couple feet away from him, standing on one of those rocks.

Zelda steps back in shock for a moment. “W-Who? Who are you?”

“Me?” He takes one step down the stairs. “Oh, I am just someone, same as you, who wishes to see destiny fulfilled.” Zelda takes another step back, and seeing this, he stops approaching. “Ease your mind, Your Highness. There is no need to be frightened. You may call me, Astor”

Cut to title card on his face, it can be like this, BUT, no malice or glowing magic around him, it’s all still lush green forest, and I don’t want as much focus on his astrolabe. It’s just his face, and he’s giving a warm, yet chilling smile.

Zelda is still stammering. “Y-You...do I……. how did you—”

“It doesn’t matter. What matters now is taking every step towards stopping the Calamity, correct?” Astor starts to take a step towards her again, and this time Zelda doesn’t flinch.

“Y-Yes. Yes of course. But I’m afraid I’m still a bit confused. ...What exactly do you...want?”

Astor doesn’t immediately answer. He steps off the pedestal and starts to circle around Zelda, eyeing her, but still with that creepy smile. “Tell me, Princess, how fares your recent training? Adequate progress, I presume?”

He continues circling around her, still a few feet away. Zelda looks to the ground, defeated. “I’m afraid not. I’ve been trying to aid the researchers with the Guardians and Divine Beasts. But when it comes to this power…” she looks down at her hand again. “...it seems despite my great efforts and restless hours of prayers, they have yet to awaken.”

Using his free hand, Astor places a hand on his chest, tilting his head in a sorry pout. The gesture seems exaggerated. “My...you poor thing. How harrowing this must be for you.” He continues walking, eyeing her as he circles behind. “But, I am certain it is not your fault. You are but a child, after all.”

“I…” Zelda is still staring at the ground in front of her. Astor continues.

“I mean really, have you ever stopped to think about how absurd this all is? A collection of mis-match warriors, demanded to pilot gods. A sword for an unseen hero. The lives of us all, in the hands of one girl. Expected to lead us all, awaken a divine power, and save the world, all before her 17th birthday…”

After a beat, Zelda finally looks up at him, confusion and suspicion back in her eyes. “What did you say?”

Astor stops walking, he’s back directly in front of the pedestal. The camera is on him center frame, so that when he turns to face Zelda, his figure blocks the sword.

“Now Princess, is that truly what you want? Do you really believe yourself prepared to live up to such a monumental task?” He’s walking directly towards her now, arm outstretched.

“I—” Zelda pauses, before shaking her head. “Of course not, but that doesn’t mean—”

“Yeesss. Precisely! You needn’t not let yourself live like this, like some beggar to the gods, like a failure.” Astor is walking more quickly towards her, and Zelda is stepping back.

Zelda lets out a gasp of fear now, as Astor approaches, there’s a swirl starting to form around the astrolabe in his hand. “I don’t understand! What’s your point, what do you want? Who are you!?”

He stops walking, he’s so much closer now, just a foot or two away from her. “It’s quite simple my dear.” He gives another smile. “I’m a man who wants to live.”

Fwoosh! The air around them is now tinted purple, the astrolabe’s power surrounding them both. Zelda gasps again.

“If we truly wish to see this realm prosper, we must accept the indisputable truth.” Astor reaches out his hand. “You are not worthy of saving this Kingdom. You do not have the power to oppose such an unimaginable enemy! Therefore I shall relieve you of your burden, for the sake of us all. I will steal, your, destiny!”

Astor is seconds away from touching her, before suddenly...the sound of a sword unsheathing.

Astor flies back, crumpling on the steps of the pedestal, he looks up to see Link, sword at the ready. Link had pushed astor back with the pommel of his sword [because no stabbing or blood for our PG Nintendo game] and the motion has cause him to drop his astrolabe, which now lies a few feet in front of him in the grass.

“Link!” Zelda says, relieved. From behind, eggbot also appears. It walks infront of Link and gives a little whistle and does that sassy pointing thing in the direction of Astor, as if telling him off.

Astor frowns when he sees Link, but when he sees eggbot his face morphs into confusion. “You…? But I…” he glances at his astrolabe. Astor gets up to retrieve it and stands.

“It doesn’t matter how you’re here again. You can’t stop this.” Astor summons the Hollows, and they appear in front of him. It was harder to see in the lost woods, but here in the lush grass, its undeniable that the Hollows are draining the plant life around them.

“Kill whoever he is. Fight the Guardian if you must, though I’d prefer it intact. But don’t touch the girl.” He narrows his eyes. “Her thread shall be cut by my hand alone.”

Then it goes into that action sequence. Link is desperately fighting off the Hollows, while also trying to keep eggbot close to protect it. The hollows are laughing, even taunting him, as Astor is just walking calmly forwards towards Zelda, and Link can’t do anything to stop it.

Then it’s roughly the same, Link flies back as his sword breaks. Zelda is kinda helpless. And then just as Astor is about to reach Zelda again, Link cries out, the Master Sword glows. Everyone looks back, confused. Link pulls the sword. Boss fight.

After the fight and after Link defeats Astor, he’ll say something like. “That sword...is too powerful.” and blah blah blah. He looks up at Zelda. “Should you come to your senses, Your Highness,” he hisses the words, “I will delightfully accept an invitation with your company again.” He glares at Link. “Perhaps one day, when we have more time, you will fully come to understand where your arrogance is leading you.” He stands, though clutching his side in pain. “Until then, I shall make certain we meet again.” Link charges him, but he disappears in smoke and malice. End the Korok Forest arc.

Okay so! Why is this scene better? Uhhhhhhhh because it fucking is that’s why. We got 1) A villain introduction that’s more menacing 2) an establishment of character goals, but a mystery of character motivation to keep suspense 3) a more insightful look at different character’s feelings and thoughts 4) a much more interesting interaction with dialogue that raises tension and properly climaxes to the action and 5) the story’s momentum moves forward with ascending action, and new story details that set up later scenes.

I find it absolutely absurd that in the original game, these scenes are not written with more impact. This is the first look into the real mystery and substance that the story has to offer, and the first real look into the prime antagonist’s head. The actions and stakes throughout Act 2 have to properly ascend and rise in order to truly keep the audience engaged. You can’t just rely on mystery alone, you have to make use of character goals.

Reiterating Zelda’s internal struggles means that this can more easily connect and flow into the later segments where she doubts her ability and sees Link and the others grow stronger. In addition, Astor’s presence is a direct foil to Zelda’s arc. You can already see it a bit based on his dialogue, but I will more fully explain the true depths of how his is a direct foil to Zelda further down the line when all the aspects of his character are revealed. It’s almost as pacing the amount of information you give about a character can properly incite your audience to be more invested in the story, hmm. Anyhow, all you need to know for now is that good antagonists have similarities and aligning viewpoints as the protagonist in the beginning of the journey, much more, than you might think.

= = = = =

That is it for now! I can’t believe I had to dedicate an entire section to just one battle. But! That is how the story must go, as I need to flesh out as much as possible in only a few cutscenes without ruining the pacing. Tune in next time for flashbacks, backstory, Yiga husbands, token Zelink hours, aaand perhaps just a bit of Impa simping.

#Hwaoc: The Kip Cut #Part 2 #hwaoc spoilers #long post #hwaoc #age of calamity #hw age of calamity #hyrule warriors age of calamity

52 notes · View notes

the-monkey-ruler · 1 year

Note

Oh neat, so there are shows that don’t follow the book all too much. Twitter gave me the impression that’s a no-no in china. Glad to see it’s just fans being oddly protective of canon.

Listen... I LOVE JTTW media... hence that's why I am collecting it and listing it.

I mean there are HUNDREDS of interpretations of Journey to the West and while I am not an expert in media I do know that in most cases a lot of projects in Chine are either big-budget movies, passion projects, or even cash-grabs but either way, the range is long and wide. I personally know that when it comes to categorizing so many interpretations there are bound to be…. some more disappointing material than others but that just means highlighting other media even more!! If there is something one media a person doesn’t enjoy the good news!! There are HUNDREDS of other media out there for you! There is a journey to the west story out there for everyone and I think anyone can enjoy it!

However, the thing to keep in mind is that... JTTW is a culturally important piece of literature in China and while interpretations can range from silly to serious, romance to action, modern to historical, there is always a nod to the original source material to show an understanding of people who grew up with this story their whole lives and already are generally aware of the cultural significance the story has had with literature, history, or even modern culture. Just the causal saturation of JTTW in everyday lives for people that grew up with this story. These interpretations are a kind of consistent continuation of the story, that no matter what generation there is always going to be a new movie or a new television that gets another generation of people to know and love the original source material.

Of course, this kinda material, at least personally, can be very meaningful to those that grew up with it because it's not only culturally important but also it's nostalgic in a way that non-natives can find hard to understand. I like to think that sharing JTTW is always great in that others can be introduced to the literature and become interested! However, people who aren't familiar with JTTW and haven't been surrounded by mass amounts of media their whole lives. Non-natives aren't familiar with the religious or historical context within the story and easily glossed over these aspects if they only consume movie or television media of this literature. Usually,

Westerners that are familiar with the material are only subjected to one of the many interpretations that are inspired by JTTW but not the actual material itself. Westerners haven't been saturated in the causal references of seeing these stories and understanding when media is being satirical or sincere when it comes to the OG story. The OG story has been told again and again many times but that's because people who have grown up with the story have a general understanding of what it means to be just another adaptation versus something that is supposed to represent a true retelling of the story for those that are no familiar to the OG story and is meant to be an introduction to the story.

People who have grown up with these stories are never going to take most of these adaptions as anything more but an enjoyable interpretation of the beloved cultural piece they are familiar with and are able to separate the interpretation from the OG. I think the real issue when it comes to people not familiar with this tale, consume media is that is often taken as 'fact' and anything that lay outside this first impression can lead to misunderstandings and arguments, especially when people disregard the original tale if it doesn't fit their first interpretation. While this may be a very great piece of media or very enjoyable there is a general understanding that is it only one of the many that there are, and many there will ever be.

There are a lot of layers to JTTW and it's understandable that people who have not been saturated in this culture are not away of it, so when natives try to correct or even protect their culture from non-natives' interpretations or misinformation there is a mind to please be culturally sensitive to learning new things. JTTW has historical and religious importance represented within it the tale and non-natives can make the mistake of invalidating these beliefs or figures by only consuming surface-level media.

I love JTTW media, good or bad, I want to count all mediums to how this story has been told and re-told over and over again throughout the decades not to show 'hey this can be taken in any context with no repercussions' but rather to show people that 'hey there are a lot of ways that this story has been interpreted so if you do not like one then you can see another, perhaps even be inspired to learn more of the material.' I love spreading information but there needs to be a general acknowledgment as great as JTTW is just a piece of media it all started from being such a culturally important and impactful piece of literature able to masterly combine Buddhism, Daoism, and Chinese folklore.

There has been a history of Western media... being insensitive to Eastern cultures and as such, I understand why there is a protectiveness over something like JTTW when it comes to non-natives perhaps misunderstanding or being unaware of the more important aspects of the media. Most, if not all JTTW media, is not made for people who KNOW about JTTW. JTTW media is created for people that already know the OG and already enjoy it, usually looking to find an easily consumable way to enjoy this literature through a different medium without having to read 100 chapters. Watching a piece of JTTW media doesn't make someone an expert in JTTW nor does it make them more familiar with Chinese culture. An individual has to take it upon themself to find out more about the OG JTTW, and again in my personal opinion, I believe that it makes JTTW media even more enjoyable as you have a deeper understanding of how these interpretations were created.

#jttw #anon ask #anonymous #anon #answer #Im sorry for making this so long I just had a lot of thoughts about the subject #Like its all fun and games to a certain point but please know that there is more to this literature.#I hope people can come to enjoy jttw more and more everyday but not at the cost of loosing it's cultural #religious or historical significance #ask

35 notes · View notes

sketching-shark · 3 years

Note

I think we should start a protection squad (although they don’t need it because they can protect themselves) for Sun Wukong and Guanyin

“Begone monkie kid fandom trying to down grade these really interesting characters with interesting personality’s and backstory ( the both of them like seriously Guanyin backstory is so cool) to a villain wile trying to justify your angsty backstory (that are no where near as cool as monkey who fights gods and Person who has 1000 arms and heads to help people in need) for the actual villain”

So who wants to join

Me:*raises my hand*

Ps: sorry if I got Guanyin backstory wrong am not an expert on it.

Haha okay so some critiques on the jttw & associated media western fandom & fandom in general coming up, so please skip this upcoming text wall if you don't want to encounter my undoubtedly ~devastating~ words (i.e. don't like don't read as people love to say, & if I have to be inundated with images of my notp every time I go into the sun wukong tag then I imagine people can be chill with me expressing my opinions & giving people fair warning that I WILL be critiquing common fandom trends, but no need for you to see that if you don’t want to. Cool? Cool.)

-----

PFFFFFTTT oh man there are many times when I feel like signing up for such a protection squad...when it comes to the current western jttw & Sun Wukong fandom I do feel like I'm often swinging at a rapid pace between "well it's fandom & people are allowed to make the stories they want" & "I am once again begging my fellow monkie kid enthusiasts (& sometimes creators) to do more research into the og classic/show it more respect so you can avoid any potentially offensive/off-the-mark misunderstandings of the status & cultural context of the characters in their country of origin (I promise it's super interesting & I can provide you with links to free pdf copies of the entire Yu translation, i.e. the best one ever created, so feel free to ask!) & maybe also stop constantly stripping away all the nuance of Sun Wukong's character for the sake of either making him an entire asshole so your little meow meow can look completely innocent in comparison and/or making the monkey king's entire life & character revolve around said meow meow."

Like I get that fandom's supposed to be a kind of anything-goes environment, but one thing that honestly seems to be true of a lot of fandoms--and the western one for Sun Wukong & co. is certainly not immune from this--is that there often seems to be a kind of monoculturalization at work in what stories are created & what character interpretations are made popular. Across a multitude of fandoms, you frequently see basically nothing but the exact same tropes being made popular & even being insisted on for the canonical work (especially hasty redemption arcs & enemies to lovers these days), the exact same one-dimensional character types that characters from an original work keep getting shoved into, the exact same story beats, etc. And I get it to an extent, as fandom is generally a space where people just make art and fic for fun & without thinking too hard about it & without any pressure.

This seems to, however, often unfortunately lead to the mentality that it’s your god-given right to do literally whatever you want with literally any cultural figure without even the slightest bit of thought put into their cultural, historical, and even religious context, even (and sometimes especially) when it comes to figures that are really important in a culture outside your own. For such figures--even if you first encounter them in a children’s cartoon--you should be a little more careful with what you do with them than you would with your usual Saturday morning line-up. It of course has to be acknowledged that there exists a whole pile of absolutely ridiculous & cursed pieces of media that are based on Journey to the West & that were produced in mainland China, but for your own education if nothing else I consider it good practice for those of us (myself certainly included) who aren’t part of the culture that produced JTTW to put more thought into how we might want to portray these characters so that at the very least (to pull some things I’ve seen from the jttw western fandom) we’re not turning a goddess of mercy into an evil figure for the sake of Angst(TM), or relegating other important literary figures into the positions of offensive stereotypes, or making broad claims about the source text & original characterizations of various figures that are blatantly untrue, or mocking heavenly deities because of what’s actually your misunderstanding of how immortality works according to Daoist beliefs. Yet while a lot of this is often due to people not even trying to understand the context these figures are coming from, I do want to acknowledge that the journey (lol reference) to understand even a fraction of the original cultural context can be a daunting one, especially since, as I’ve mentioned before, it can be really hard & even next to impossible to find good, accessible, & legitimate explanations in English of how, for example, the relationship between Sun Wukong and the Six-Eared Macaque is commonly interpreted in China & according to the Buddhist beliefs that define the original work.

That is to say, I do think it’s an unfortunate, if unavoidable, part of any introduction of an original text into a culture foreign to its own for there to be sometimes a significant amount of misinterpretation, mistranslations, and false assumptions. There is, however, a big difference between learning from your honest mistakes, & doubling down on them while dismissing all criticism of your misinterpretation into that abstract category of “fandom drama.” The latter attitude is kind of shitty at best and horrifically entitled at worst.

Plus, as I’ve discovered, there is a great deal of interest and joy to be drawn from keeping yourself open to learning aspects of these texts & figures that you weren’t aware of! I can say from my own experience that I’ve always really enjoyed & appreciated it when individuals on this site who come from a Chinese background--and who know much more about the cultural context of JTTW than me--have taken the time to explain its various aspects. It often leaves me feeling like woooooaaaahhhhhHHH!!!! as to how amazingly full of nuanced meaning JTTW is like dang no wonder it’s one of China’s Four Great Classical Novels.

And I guess that right there is the heart of a lot of my own personal frustration and disappointment with the ways that fandoms often approach a literary work or other piece of media...like don’t get me wrong, a lot of the original works a fandom may grow around are just straight-up goofy & everyone’s aware of it & has fun with it, yet the trend of approaching what are often nuanced and multi-layered works in terms of how well they fit and/or can be shoved into pretty cliche ideas of Redemption Arc or Enemies to Lovers or Hero Actually Bad, Villain Actually Good etc...well, it just seems to cheapen and even erase even the possibility of understanding the wonderful complexity or even endearing simplicity that made these works so beloved in the first place. Again, I feel like I need to make it clear that I’m not saying fandom should be a space where people are constantly trying to one-up each other with their hot takes in literary analysis, but it would be nice and even beneficial to allow room for commentary that strives to approach these works in a multi-faceted way, analysis & interpretations that go against the popular fandom beliefs, & criticism of the work or even of fandom trends (yes it is in fact possible to legitimately love something but still be critical of its aspects) instead of immediately attacking people who try to engage in such as just being haters who don’t want anyone to have fun ever (X_X).

----

Anyway, I know I didn’t cover even half of the stuff you brought up in the first place anon, but I don’t want any interested parties to this post to suffer too long through my text wall lol. I was asked to try my hand at illustrating Guanyin, but as with you I’m nowhere near as informed as I should be about her, so I want to do more research on her history and religious importance before I attempt a portrait. I’ll try my best, and do plan to pair that illustration with my own outsider’s attempt to summarize her character. From what little I do know I am in full agreement that her backstory is so incredibly amazing...just the fact that she literally eschewed the bliss of Nirvana to help all beings reach it, and even split herself into pieces in the attempt to do so (with Buddha granting her eleven heads and a thousand arms as a result)...man, I can see why she’s such a beloved & respected deity.

----

As for what western fandom commonly does with everyone’s favorite god-fighting primate...I can talk about this at length if there’s interest, but for this post I’ll just say that I guess one lesson from all of this is that for all the centuries that have passed since Journey to the West was first completed, literally no one drawing inspiration from the original tale in the west (lol) has come even slightly close to being able to equal or even capture half the extent of the nuance, complexity, religious, historical, and cultural aspects, and humor that define Wu Cheng'en's story of an overpowered monkey who defied even Buddha.

So thank the heavens we'll always have the original.

#journey to the west #jttw #guanyin #sun wukong #monkey king #monkie kid #fandom #fandom critical

36 notes · View notes

lifeisadoozy · 3 years

Text

sharing a short dousy video edit i made.

i don't know why but i really like this and thought i'd share it on here too.

should i rant about what goes in my head while making this video? no. will i? yes.

basically the song is beginning middle end by leah nobel from to all the boys i've loved before part 3. this song is basically about two people falling in love from the early years of their lives. since lara jean and peter met when they were kids. but then started (fake) dating in high school and their adventure together started right then and there. anyway, watch the movies if you haven't already. this song fits lara jean and peter so well (i don't know if it was written specifically for them or not).

but daisy and sousa didnt meet when they were kids because of one obvious reason: when daisy was a kid, sousa's dead; and when sousa was a kid, daisy hadn't been born yet. they weren't supposed to meet. so their journey started off separately.

daisy's beginning in shield was rocky, to say the least. but she found a home there with coulson, fitzsimmons and may (i'll get to ward) in season 1. they bonded quite quickly, mainly daisy skye and coulson. i think it shifts when she got shot by ian quinn. everyone in the team, especially ward was terrified and angry at the situation. now. she had a relationship with miles early on in the season, which was broken off. but within the context of the song, her beginning was ward. he was her s.o. she was falling for him when she uncovered that he's hydra. add that trauma to the ones she already had prior to shield. no wonder she has trust issues.

her middle was her powers. even though the story started early in the series, it's still the middle. because she struggled with her powers throughout seasons 2 - 5. the middle would always be the bulk of it all. it's where everything happens. it's the crux of a character, of a person. it's where daisy became daisy. now, in the middle of her middle (pun very much intended), was lincoln. the first inhuman who helped her and understood her. i'm sure they've got their own problems and everything, but it doesn't change the fact that he was someone who knew what she's going through. none of her found family could help her the way he could. this is where i think it gets interesting. seasons 2 - 5, where i said was her middle, and basically the peak/climax of daisy as a character, she was falling for and fell for lincoln. it was known that daisy was still in love with lincoln in season 5. possibly around 2 years after he died. but then we found out that she had moved on from lincoln in the beginning of season 6.

season 6 and 7 is the end of her journey with the team. they're still a family. just a family who occassionally see each other. now in season 6, like i mentioned previously, it was acknowledged that daisy had moved on. the past will always be with her, no doubt. the trauma would stick. hopefully just bits and pieces. but it would still be there until she either had alzheimer's, dementia, any other retrograde amnesia injuries or diseases, or the day she died. she would never forget lincoln or ward, heck even miles. she won't forget her past. unless it was taken away from her. so, back to the topic at hand, she wanted her own fitz. she had grown from the woman she was in the beginning, she had grown from the woman and superhero that she was in the middle. she knows who she is now. with the people she worked with. and the people she calls her family. and also with anyone. daisy's ending was perfect (to me at least). she wasn't looking for love right then and there. she was burnt one too many times. but she wanted that kind of love and support. the love and support that fitz and simmons have for each other. something that daisy lacked all her life. she ended up with someone who gave her what she wanted. and what she needed.

with sousa, it's a little different. because we didn't get to see much of his background and family life. we didn't get to know what his life was like during the war and before the war. we begin to see him in the ssr. we all knew, literally everyone knew, even the characters knew that sousa's practically in love with peggy. except for maybe peggy herself. but i'm sure she had an inkling. she definitely had an inkling. but then things go on and he became chief of the west coast office and he was in los angeles while peggy was in new york. he moved on (or so we thought). he started dating violet and was ready to marry her. he told her he loved her. and he did. it's just that he was also in love with peggy. still. and violet saw that. it's as clear as day. and they broke it off.

we didn't get to see much of sousa's middle. mainly because ac wasn't renewed for a third season. which was such a waste because it ended with so many things left unanswered. but we know that between 1947 - 1955, peggy and sousa broke up. we have no idea why. we don't know if steve was back. nada. all we know is that they broke up. when did they break up? again. no idea. but we know that peggy means a lot to sousa. she's like (sorta; i don't like making comparisons but anyway) sousa's lincoln in a way (i'm not saying that they're the exact replica. daisy/lincoln and peggy/sousa are quite different. but they do have similarities. those pairings are the kind where they want to be together forever but knew that it wouldn't work; my interpretation). she didn't die, we know that. but she's sort of the one that got away. my guess is that it's because shield and the world was more important than each other. which wasn't dissimilar to daisy and lincoln's situation. so, yes. peggy's sousa's middle. she influenced him a lot. and he found himself amidst ssr and shield (just like daisy did).

sousa's end was again, perfect. he went to the future. got to see what the organisation he helped build came to be. he went on an adventure to explore space. which he would geek out over. instead of dying, he got to live. with the love of his (new) life. he may be a man out of time, but with daisy and their ragtag family, he is right where he belongs.

daisy and sousa began with "who the hell are you" and ended with "it's beautiful" (just putting this here because i love that fact).

so. they started pretty quickly, didn't they? 4 episodes in and sousa fell in love with daisy. 7 episodes in and daisy fell in love with sousa. though i doubt that they thought they're in love. but they're falling. or walking towards it. 7x03 was when they met. it's where it all began. in area 51 of all places (foreshadow much?). but what's even more interesting is that technically, they began twice. from daisy's perspective, they met in 6x13 (which plenty of people had pointed out; but @agents-of-fangirling was the most recent). even though they didn't actually meet because sousa was wearing that blue (seriously his colour really is blue) hazmat suit and daisy was disoriented (may dying and all that jazz). but from sousa's perspective, they met in 7x03. where they actually made eye contact and conversed. how many couples can say that the when of their first encounter was debatable?

now. their middle, in the video edit, i used the scene from 7x10. because i think that's a pretty good middle. they had their first first kiss. sousa had no idea that happened. yet, there he was, wanting to help. just like his time-loop self. he extended a hand and she accepted. she accepted help. do you know how much of a development that was??? because i think that it's a huge character development (i still haven't rewatched so don't take my word for it). i think that's a good depiction of their middle. oh yeah. before i forgot. they also had two first kisses. and again, i say, how many couples can say that they had two first kiss? figured i'd choose the scene in the middle of those first kisses (pun intended lmao).

sidenote: did y'all see the devastation in her eyes when sousa volunteered to stay in the 80s? or how her eyes went wide and she started to panic when he was injected in the time loops? sousa's a man of action. and when he says something, he means it. so, his constant concern over daisy and him wanting to help in any way he can, it's his love language.

and then we have their ending. the perfect end to an imperfect couple (because nobody's perfect *cue hannah montana*). daisy got sousa a typewriter. because he's from the 50s. since when did daisy buy gifts for her boyfriends/partners/lovers? and they watched e.t. together? that's normal couple things. even though they are far from normal. but they get to experience it all together. daisy didn't get to in the past. none that we know of anyway. and now she does. also, that smile when she talks about him. that fond smile that grazed her lips at the thought of him. i've never seen her smile like that before (none that i remember; and if she did, well then i'm so so happy for her). she looks happy. serene. and her saying "he's a dork" twice in the season just makes my heart burst with happiness for them.

sidenote: my headcannon is that "he's a dork" is code for "i love him too much to explain it in words."

i'd like to believe that even though it has ended, their story has just begun. they're going through their middle right now. and i hope that they won't end. in other words, their end was not an ending. it was a beginning of a new life.

as daisy said, "we're loving the journey together." keyword: journey. it's a long road up ahead. with countless of challenges and obstacles in the way. but in the end, all that matters is that they face it together.

that's it. thanks for coming to my ted talk (for those who actually read it all the way through, i love you).

#watch the video til the very end😉#dousy #i know nobody's gonna read this #but i needed to hash it out #😬😬#character analysis #sort of #relationship analysis #🥺👉👈#sorry for the long ass post #like seriously long #i set out to write a quick lil paragraph and ended up writing an essay

23 notes · View notes

dariamalek · 3 years

Text

Empathizing With The Enemy: How Toronto Artist BØNES Highlights My Newest Theory

I have never experienced confidence in hip hop music until I began listening to Toronto artist, BØNES.

I had mentioned before on my Twitter that I am taking a different turn on this blog for the next few posts. Given the restrictions of COVID settling slightly since the end of summer, (please don’t jinx it, I live in Ontario people) I have had the chance to finally go out and explore the music scene of my city physically again and I’ve realized that I have taken a lot of these artists for granted.

In all honesty, I hadn’t experienced hip hop music in the modern scene. In fact, music that is labelled as “hip hop” in the modern century turned me away because of it’s egotistical and materialistic themes; especially when it came to new artists trying to “make it big” in the hip hop industry.

My only experience and/or knowledge of hip hop comes from my dad’s old Biggie and N.W.A records as well as the really old Kanye songs I had downloaded on my iPod when I was in high school. However, there’s something so enlightening about BØNES’s music that is different to what the new up and coming artists are putting out.

BØNES, also known as Joe to the peasants that have the honour of interacting with him on a normal basis everyday (myself included), is a hip hop artist from Toronto, Ontario - which is something you don’t hear everyday (subtle Ontario satire for you there, I’ll wait for the applause to end). I actually have the honour of knowing Joe outside of his music career and I think it is his positive, down to earth personality that gets portrayed so vividly in his music, that makes him such an interesting artist. However, I will be referring to him for the rest of this post as Joe - not just because I want to be a little less formal but also it is extremely difficult to continue to press and hold the O key and click 6 consistently. I may or may not have arthritis by the end of his post which would totally be worth it if it meant the last thing I ever typed was BØNES in all caps.

Though it’s different to determine what exactly makes BØNES music so unique, I seem to catch myself finding similarities between him and an artist from Detroit, Michigan who calls himself JMSN. Though their music is completely different - the concepts are quite similar. Take a genre, modernize it and make it, well BØNES. For example, I very vaguely classified Joe’s (arthritis is kicking in) genre as hip hop however, I really don’t think “hip hop” is what it is. Let me explain.

According to writer and essayist Greg Tate, who had also written a fabulous essay called Everything But the Burden: What White People Are Taking from Black Culture, hip hop is a “complex culture comprising four elements: deejaying, or “turntabling”; rapping, also known as “MCing” or “rhyming”; graffiti painting, also known as “graf” or “writing”; and “B-boying,” which encompasses hip-hop dance, style, and attitude, along with the sort of virile body language that philosopher Cornel West described as “postural semantics Tate, 2021).” Interestingly enough, other than “rhyming,” Joe’s music doesn’t necessarily embody all aspects of hip hop; it evolves them the way we wish modern day hip hop does.

However, one part of his music that embodies the ideologies of hip hop is something called the “knowledge of self/consciousness (Tate, 2021).” I personally believe that this aspect should be at the top of a genre so popular such as hip hop. None of these newer artists embody this aspect which is disappointing to say the least because, as a genre predominantly African American occupied and originated, this genre should scream confidence and self strength. This was done by older hip hop artist who would use their music and platform to talk about their struggles as a community, eg. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, "The Message" (1982).

And the beauty of hip hop is portrayed through language. See, modern day hip hop (please don’t ask me to name any of these artists, I will butcher anything that doesn’t start with “Lil”) seems to be riddled with very forward, egotistical remarks about how much wealthier they are than everyone else, how many “chains” they have or my personal favourite: how many “bitches” they have. Please, this USED to be a PG blog but look how far we come. We’re saying “bitches” on this blog.

There’s a difference between saying that and “now I’ve been stuck in this place and I’m aiming to grow (Thankful, 2019)” or “came a long way and I’m so damn proud (I Ain’t Miss A Damn Thing, 2020).” This switch in language embodies confidence in a way that is personal to the listener themselves rather than make them feel discouraged about now being at the same social class as the artist.

Joe’s (arthritis is back again) music is so empowering and cleverly phrased, as well as the context is all based around growth as he shares his experiences through his journey of self growth; by using a theory I like to call “empathizing with the enemy-” ahhh yes, we’re getting psychological in this one. You thought we were done with all the psychology. WRONG.

This theory is based around how individuals gain personal profit by “empathizing with the enemy.” This theory is embodied in this one BØNES lyric, and dare I say invented it: “I can’t really blame [him] if he’s nervous.” After listening to BØNES’s music, I began looking into the difference between gaining confidence and growing confidence. Gaining confidence is filled, or I guess ironically, is an empty confidence that is filled through materialistic things or bullying in order to fill a void in their character; a doubt that if they’re not on top, they will never amount to anything. This is so popular in modern day hip hop, when artists give value to sex, drugs and other controversial things in order to stay relevant or seem like they are “above” something. This does nothing for the listener; in fact, it does the opposite. I originally began researching this theory through literature; the effect words have when put together, the difference between “I can’t really blame [him] if he’s nervous” and “he should be nervous.” Notice how the words are similar, but the first one seems less demanding and forceful, where as the other one seems much more confident and self preserved; the concept of “you don’t have to like me, I like myself,” as corny as it sounds.

BØNES idolizes self growth, which is a constant theme in his music, and self consciousness. My theory is because of how far he has come as a person, and I am sure that the reason he is as charming and kind to everyone as he is, is simply because he is happy and kind to himself. And that means a lot when it comes to being an artist.

Many artists chose to fill a void with their art while others use it to spread the love and passion they have when they practice their art with others. This is so evident in BØNES’ music and it’s what differentiates him from newer artists trying to make it today. Rather than give in to the normal, consistent and boring themes of hip hop, his bubbly personality has changed the lyric game for the better.

Why is this important? Music is such a huge effect on the listener, the language more than anything, and it’s important that we understand the effect language has on people, especially in music. I am biased, as an English major, but if you’ve read my essay “Making Love vs. @&!$ing: How Music Has Watered Down The Value of Romance,” you probably already know my views on how important language is when it comes to music, mostly because lyricism evolves from poetry...I say as I look at the gigantic portrait of Shakespeare hanging from my wall. Or even compare different ways heartbreak is portrayed through music - that new Olivia Rodrigo song on Tik Tok versus “I Would Rather Go Blind.”

LANGUAGE IN MUSIC IS IMPORTANT. And BØNES understood the assignment. Let’s just say, I have a gym playlist especially made with Thankful and I Know on them because I feel just a little bit more confident when I look in the mirror afterwards.

As I begin this new series with pride in my little province (another little satirical joke for my Ontario people) and the artists within it, I want to urge you all to go listen and support your local artists and talents.

Oh and also go vote. Thanks. #OCanada

#canadian writer #canada #canadian critic #music #hip hop #poetry #lyrics #new artist #rapper #singer #musician #psychology #language #literature #canadian author #writer #author #blogger #novelist

3 notes · View notes