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#I think a lot of people see it’s popularity and assume that there is comic evidence for it
circuitcircus · 3 hours
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in defense of kabumisu……..
addressing things I see people say about why kabru being shipped w mithrun is ‘bad’ or why their canon relationship ‘doesn’t mean anything’ while also clearing up misconceptions of the characters some fans have
listen it keeps popping up and I just gotta do this or my brain will melt (if you don’t see it around then god I wish that were me) feel free not to read lol there’s an age gap!- erm there’s also an age gap in farcille (ily), the most popular ship in the series...also chilchuck looks like a kid but a lot of fans recognize him as a dilf because of his relative age, so there should be no age gap discourse among adult characters because it feels so conditional tbh
kabru taking care of mithrun is racist!- marcille likes to take care of others as well. is that sexist, or just an aspect of her character?
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kabru isn’t treated like a servant, waiting on mithrun hand and foot…I mean he gives mithrun a foot massage but no one told him to do all that lmfao
he's also not the only one to care for mithrun. pattadol is shown to worry for him and milsril was the one to start taking care mithrun in the first place after he…...y’know. speaking of which-
they probably met when kabru was a kid!- neither of them showed signs of recognizing each other the entire time mithrun was introduced nor when they were together. and im pretty sure KABRU of all people would show some kind of recognition if they'd met before. it's kabru!!! the people person!!! mr. "i-noted-down-50+-characters-in-this-dude's-backstory-for-fun-and-actually-enjoy-social-gatherings"
you would think some kind of memory would come back to him especially after hearing mithrun’s backstory if milsril had even told kabru about him as a kid. but nope. it’s just fan speculation unless there's a side comic suggesting otherwise that i haven't seen
mithrun doesn't care about kabru, his shapeshift double looked like shit!- it's obviously because of mithrun's (then) lack of desires that it looked like that, but they really grow on each other
i think it's safe to assume it'd look more like kabru after they spent so much time together (also laios can barely even remember kabru's name, give this guy a hug)
mithrun is racist!- he’s actually the least likely character to be racist since he lost his desires and that includes a desire for superiority over others. he even calls his past self out on that part of himself. the other elves in that side comic were being just as racist to shorter lived races but just didn’t use ‘outdated slurs’
(unfortunately literally every main character in dunmeshi is at least a lil prejudiced, but I believe it’s worldbuilding and a sign of the times rather than a reason ryoko kui is giving to hate each character)
taking care of others is a pain in the ass!- saying this as a reason kabru and mithrun shouldn't be together is basically saying disabled people shouldn't be allowed to have romantic relationships because they're a "burden"...if someone is actually willing to put in the work, then let them be.
that's not even all of their relationship, mithrun is the fighter of their duo and kabru would've been killed by the shapeshifter or something if he'd fallen down the hole on his own since he sucks at fighting monsters. mithrun helps collect ingredients for cooking every time, too (barometz fruits and griffin egg). he pulls his weight and then some!! i feel like people forget that part of mithrun a lot somehow.
+senshi literally cooks for everyone all time. it's kind of an important aspect of the narrative.
+also, while it is a popular fan thing I see around that kabru handfeeds mithrun, he literally never does lol this is mithrun using his own hands to eat:
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also here we have him washing his own body
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just saying because people like to treat mithrun like a baby even though the narrative respects him as a capable adult who also has special needs because of an accident. he’s captain for a reason
kabru hates taking care of mithrun!- not exactly, he was initially surprised and put off but got used to it quickly. i’m sure he’s grateful for all the times mithrun saved him from a monster and teleported them out of danger as well
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he even starts doing “unnecessary” things for mithrun’s comfort and safety like when mithrun pushes himself too hard fighting, even after his mission to take care of him was complete when the canaries came back
here is even kabru resting while mithrun keeps watch (mithrun let him sleep for 5 hours before waking him up from the nightmare earlier, too):
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there's nothing more to their relationship!- they actually have had a very tight and consistent dynamic since they met and they incite the most change within each other by the end. kabru is the one who inspires mithrun to create new desires so he doesn't waste away, and mithrun is the first person we see kabru being genuine with and it leads him to be more honest with others by the end instead of tiptoeing around everyone all the time (that mask was also the reason some ppl initially disliked kabru…)
kabru’s relationship with mithrun is honestly so important for his character and vice versa, but it’s often disregarded because of one over exaggerated aspect of it (an aspect that isn’t even the first way they interact with each other) or because people want to just straight up ignore it for some reason 🥲🥲
kui dedicates many panels to them that don't particularly serve the narrative as a whole in order to demonstrate this and i think that's pretty significant
you're taking this too seriously!- as if i'm the first person in the world to be crazy about a ship or the characters 😭 i love analyzing text and it's upsetting to see them mischaracterized when kui lays out the characters so clearly and deliberately
also they end up touching each other like all the time and have the kind of canon validation most ppl can only dream of lol i feel so insane look at this:
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and this is just when they're first getting to know each other cuz there's a fuckload more
kinda hard to explain how i don't actually need them to get married or whatever but i'd die on this hill for them and i enjoy their dynamic immensely
haha you thought you were reading ship discourse but it was actually a character analysis 🤪🤪🤪
also don’t somehow take this to mean I think anyone has to ship them, I just need everyone to understand these accusations kind of don’t make sense especially when they can also apply to other pairs or characters
I find it fun that mithrun waited for kabru to wake up before moving on after they first fell through the hole. why indeed…idk but it’s cute either way
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bonus kabru looking at mithrun:
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agoddamnrayofsunshine · 9 months
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I have such qualms with the idea of pit madness that is super popular in most fics because like…obviously is completely veers away from anything even remotely canon from the comics, and it’s usually used only in reference to Jason as a way to quickly resolve the issue of his violent actions instead of actually addressing them.
But also I think that, if you’re going to use it as a plot device, it’s being severely under-utilised. Like, I think that taking the idea of pit madness to its logical extreme and applying it to all characters that have used a Lazarus pit would make for an incredibly interesting story. It has a lot of potential as a trope, considering that the general idea boils down to ‘imagine if mind control specifically targeted your strongest emotions (especially anger) and forced you to act on them’ and I think that more authors who are going to use it need to lean into it instead of using it as a throwaway explanation for Jason’s actions.
Utilising a highly popular fanon trope in your fic is fine, but I think that if you’re going to use it we need to stop ignoring what it could potentially offer for a story.
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weirdmageddon · 8 months
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i love these tags this person is so right
actually, can you imagine if dave was raised by B1 roxy?
i wanna get into this actually
(ok i had to spend a few hours rewriting this because IT DIDNT FUCKING SAVE AFTER FIVE HOURS OF WRITING WHEN MY COMPUTER UPDATED WHILE I WAS AFK so it would mean a lot to show this post some appreciation. i LOVEEE hearing what other people have to say)
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even though these things mom does are presented in an extravagant, kitsch, jokey way, her intentions always came from a place of sincerity. she is simply Funnie
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but rose reads too far into it and assumes things that aren't there, that her mother is passive-aggressively feigning interest in rose's interests simply because the things she does are so extra. "why do all of this if not to mock me"
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im telling you right now if dave lived in this household he wouldn't assume antagonism, he'd go,
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don’t forget who LITERALLY patented tangible jpeg artifacts as their post-scratch adult self and scattered shitty scummed up statue of liberties all over the planet. theres no way some of that overboard artful shit wasnt post-ironic / circling back around to genuine funny sincerity
dave's natural state is funny sincerity like roxy. he's had the natural capacity for this type of humor from the start and this is the direction he goes towards when he grows out of his brother's shadow by the end of the comic. dave and roxy share an earnest “so bad its good” type of humor
(lots more under the cut; the length of this meta analysis just got unwieldly with all the pictures and whatnot)
despite the alcoholism, roxy is a supportive mother. she's not the ideal guardian but hells of a lot more supportive of her kid than bro is. if she knew dave's interests she would totally indulge in them with some over the top silly goofy haha shit as a genuine gesture simply because she loves him
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rose isn't too keen on it though. but she is more similar to dirk in her natural state of thinking of overthinking shit and assuming the worst, like the tags said
and yes dave got the sweet cuddly yet sometimes backhanded ouppy gene from roxy, probably even moreso lol
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roxy's even said rose "sounds like girl dirk"
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side tangent here, but this is something i wanna talk about.
i dont think bro should ever be in custody of children ever but if theres anyone who would be up to the task it's rose probably. i know she'd be able to keep up with him. not only does she have a defined personality (dave is more malleable and absorbs his environment like a sponge), if anyone can pick apart B1 dirk's batshit brain and probably be right on the money it's her. lil cal has been pumping patriarchal nonsense into bro's head and rose would be able to bring the fucking facts to the table without losing her own and being a living example of a badass little girl. i also don't think bro would try to force masculine roles onto rose like he did with dave, seeing as she is a girl, so she would actually have more of a leg up and get some passes that dave was never afforded. and rose wouldn't stand idly and accept any bullshit; she is no doormat. and i think this would earn bro's respect
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but anyway, from this, couldn't we conclude roxy "sounds like girl dave"?
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yeah okay. we havent even gotten into their penchant for funny typos or misspeaks, deliberate or otherwise
so, dave's environment
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the sentiment "god you hope you can be as good as your bro at this some day" might have been genuine at the time when he idolized bro but of course he's not able to express that in any sort of sincere fashion because he's in dirk's fucking household. and this level 10 irony shit isnt doing dave any favors
his role models were the Internet and a vague idea of what Bro was like. So he built up his facade based on irony–not the literary definition of irony, as Rose might be quick to point out, but a popular concept of irony based on the idea that things that didn’t make sense actually made sense in some roundabout way. As a master of irony, Dave probably reasoned, he could see in a way other people couldn’t why a world that was scary and didn’t make sense really did make sense, and could therefore convince those people that he was superior to them. And he would wield his knowledge to maintain the appearance of superiority by calling everything ironic and pretending he didn’t care about things that didn’t make sense, and he would use walls of vaguely rhyming words to keep everyone at arm’s length so they wouldn’t discover his insecurities (source)
roxy's style is the embodiment of post-irony. being raised by mom lalonde would be like being raised by joel vinesauce ok
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what can i say ….. (getting meta about this actually, hussie got these jpeg wizard wallpapers from a spyware website. link takes some time to load because internet archive)
rose is quick to read post-irony as actually being a joke/insincere, which in bro's case would be true. but i believe dave's natural instinct, outside of the influence of bro, is to read post-irony as genuine, which is exactly how mom serves it. we see this as early as act 3 from him; he understands her motives better than rose does herself:
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and in act 6 intermission 2 i think it's pretty clear
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but the thing is, it's always genuine from her. dave wouldn't have to second guess it because he's not one to naturally second guess someone's sincerity; that was learned due to his bro being virtually unassailable
there two types of ironies at play here:
seems like a joke, is actually genuine (roxy)
doesnt seem like a joke, is actually a joke (dirk)
you can make the argument that the second is is more psychologically destructive because it makes you question the reality of what is genuine sentiment and what isn't. dave never knew what was genuine and what was irony so he just sort of existed in this sincerity-ironic limbo and always did the opposite of what he genuinely felt on principle even if it always did originate from a genuine place.
"it just a joke bro i was just being ironic i dont actually x" is so much more trust-breaking and psychologically damaging than "wait are you being serious" / "i am being so fucking fr rn davy gravy" / "ok thats actually pretty fucking awesome. giant ass wizard statue" / "RIGHT"
how much about dave would change do you think? his character arc would be completely different for one thing, i think he'd have it good aside from mom's alcohol issues. he'd be left with the sweet and funny parts of him that we see at the end of the comic. the fake coolguy stuff is out, but this remains. this is dave in his element and we see it as early as act 1
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he'd probably have no shades growing up in the lalonde residence* either cause those were given to him by bro straight out of the crater as an extension of his own cool image. and john gave dave ben stiller’s aviators for his 13th birthday to replace them so he could “spread his wings”
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dave said he was wearing them for the ironies but i kind of doubt it. maybe post-irony but there was some reacharound to it being genuine because dave never put those pointy anime shades on his face again.
*though... it’s kind of hard to imagine him without his shades at all? B2 dave still got stiller’s shades from stiller himself so maybe getting them is a universal constant. i can imagine mom getting him them as a birthday gift cause shes pretty wealthy and probably could buy it out in an auction. but also itd be cool if john still gave him it as a gift
dave is actually a lot more genuine and easy to read than he lets on even when grappling with his upbringing with B1 dirk (again, see this post). this can be seen all throughout he comic but a good example is the evolution of thoughts about his interest in the preserved dead things in his room:
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if B1 roxy was dave's guardian he probably WOULD have pursued paleontology because she wouldve indulged him in it and probably find it cool and worthwhile to pursue, instead of allowing dave to flounder under ironic detachment, being poisoned by irony to the point of gaslighting himself into believing he doesnt actually believe he thinks this shit is cool. even if it was indulged in this such a way; a superficially kitsch and ironic appearing presentation, it comes from a genuine place and inspires genuine interest. just read the comments.
basically, i think if B1 roxy raised dave, their relationship would have a surface level appearance of being bizarre or over-the-top but they’d have an unsaid mutual understanding that it’s completely in earnest and just build on each other's funny and absurd gestures of affection. rather than seeing it as one-upping each other, it'd more like collaboration of some silly bullshit that you take a step back and look at full and just say, "fucking incredible"
speaking of paleontology, mom had the proto-ectobiology lab. maybe they'd be able to use the equipment to appearify paradox ghost imprints of the dead shit to create paradox clones of things from the cambrian era??? sounds like a fun mother son bonding activity. and theyd actually put the sciencey shit in the household to use
oh god i know exactly the kinds of music shed listen too also growing up as a teen in the 80s. she on that (post)-punk/art rock/new wave/new romantic mtv stuff. XTC shit fr. this is a B-52S HOUSEHOLD. maybe the associates for the campy melodramatic flair. so he gets to keep the record on his shirt cause he is an enjoyer of the shit in her vinyl collection. dave would still gravitate towards musical expression and music itself but of more variety outside of just rap, with an 80s-90s, even 70s flavor due to mom’s influence. see this for perhaps a glimpse. ​she probably visited new york city a lot for business trips and because the music scene was cool as hell around that time, imports came straight from jfk airport, she probably got in on that a bit and have remnants in the form of vinyls and cassettes. in this way she could be distributing void to dave (influencing him with forgotten / presently irrelevant music). now he can REALLY rave about bands none of his friends have heard of. “hey davy grvay watcha listenin to” (he holds up vinyl cover) “omg snakefinger”
btw dave lalonde would look like this to me
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floralcavern · 3 months
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Look. I have been a Chalastor shipper for literal years. All the way back when the pilot came out. I adored them and actually thought there was a chance they’d become canon. I’ve always had so many concepts in my head for them. 
This chaotic neutral force there to fuck with the other character only to realize he actually wants to see her succeed. 
The idea of Charlie successfully saving a sinner and suddenly, Alastor sees her in a whole new light. He looks at her and she’s glowing. Just.. AHHH. It is so cute!
But, uh… things are a bit complicated now. So.. I guess let’s talk about it. 
But, obviously, I can’t talk about Chalastor without talking about their two most popular ships. 
I’ll start with Radiodust, since I have the least to say about it. 
I never got it. Alastor has always been very clearly a sex repulsed asexual, and Angel is a horny ass pornstar. Plus, I’ve always shipped Huskerdust. But I’ve always liked the dynamic idea of Alastor and Angel, but I cannot for the life of me think of them in a romantic light. 
Now Chaggie..
For the longest time, I didn’t even know they were dating. The pilot kept it very on the DL, so I never even realized until months after the pilot when someone told me they were canonically dating. 
And even after that, I couldn’t ship them. 
But now the show is out, and they have more scenes! Surely-
Oh, no, they’re still bland..
They are one of the most boring, vanilla ships.. ever. And I want to love the ship, I really do. And I’ve tried. But I cannot. They just.. aren’t my thing. But that doesn’t mean I hate the ship at all! I just.. don’t go out looking for fanart or comics of them. 
But Chalastor just scratches my brain in such a nice, satisfying way. It always has. 
But, now that the episode, Dad Beat Dad is out.. things are complicated. 
At first, I thought they were pulling the “Lucifer thinks Alastor is flirting with Charlie and was ready to go all ‘shotgun dad’ on him, but then is relieved to realize she is with Vaggie.” Especially because of the way Alastor touched Charlie’s shoulder and leaned in. But, no, that’s not what they did. When he met Vaggie, there didn’t seem to be relief, but awkwardness to meet the girl his daughter is dating. 
So that means he never considered the idea that Charlie and Alastor were together. So that means from the very beginning he saw Alastor as competition as the fatherly figure in Charlie’s life. Which.. says a lot for how they appear to others within universe. Because if I saw someone touch someone’s shoulder like that and lean in, I’d assume flirting. But that wasn’t an option that Lucifer even had in his mind. So, how do they appear to seem to the characters in this universe? They look like a father and daughter..
And that’s just.. woof. Not great. 
And don’t even get me started on Chalastor shippers making this into a daddy kink. 
The most I like is the memes that say “Your daughter calls me daddy too” because it’s funny, but anyone taking it seriously and making it into an actual thing is just.. I’m not a fan. Especially since Alastor is a sex repulsed asexual. 
Now, I know I’m going to get people saying “Oh, Alastor was just acting that way to fuck with Lucifer!” and I know that, but the fact that the very idea that they could have a father-daughter relationship and everyone in universe taking that idea seriously says a lot and makes shipping them.. complicated. 
So, what now? Well, I’m still going to ship it. Just.. tentatively. And as for everyone else.. do whatever you want, idc. 
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. 
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duhragonball · 2 months
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Akira Toriyama (1955-2024)
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I wouldn't say I'm feeling better today, but I'm feeling less bad than yesterday. So let's see if I can put some words together.
In case anyone still hasn't heard, Dragon Ball creator Akira Toriyama passed away on March 1, 2024. This news was made public on March 7 or 8. I woke up early on Friday morning and found out while I was checking Twitter. I had a long, busy day at work, and I kept getting on my phone to scroll through fan reactions and tributes.
I think that, more than anything, is what's gotten me so worked up about his death. My Twitter timeline and my tumblr dashboard were just chock full of touching message and images about how Akira Toriyama's work has changed their lives. I wanted to write my own tribute, but I'm not sure what else I can say that hasn't already been expressed by Archie Comics, professional wrestling trio The New Day, and the Republic of El Salvador.
There's this immense, global community of fans, and it's easy to lose sight of just how big it is. It's easy to get bogged down in the infighting and petty squabbles. I saw one tweet responding to the criticism of Dragon Ball not being like this "entry level" franchise compared to other, more high brow anime and manga. It's popular with so many people, that critics will assume it's designed to appeal to the lowest-common-denominator. But the opposite is true! Dragon Ball is accessible, which is how so many people from so many different places and walks of life can get into it. The guy telling the story was such a master storyteller that he could grab an audience's attention and make it look easy. So easy that the haters would start to think that it was a trick, and he must be overrated.
Let me talk about this panel for a minute.
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Last night I started going through the original manga, looking for panels to screencap. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but I thought maybe a selection of panels that really stood out for me might be worth posting. I'll probably still do that one of these days, but I got to this one, where Gohan tells Chi-Chi about Goku's death, and it hit me like a ton of bricks.
This was a powerful scene in the anime, of course, but in the comic it's even more profound. It's just one panel, no dialogue, because the reader already knows what's happening here. We know Gohan is telling his mother that Goku died in the Cell Games, and that he refuses to be wished back, because he thinks his presence on Earth will attract new enemies. It was hard enough to hear when Goku said it to Gohan and the others, and now Gohan has to relay that message to Goku's wife. All she can do is lie prostate on the floor and weep.
And look at the composition. She's surrounded by all that negative space. Gohan's there for her, but she still feels so alone, surrounded by her husband's absence. Pots of flour for food he'll never eat. An empty chair he might have sat in. Their son, who will have to grow up without him.
I saw this, as though for the first time, and it was so gut-wrenching that I had to post it by itself. I felt like it summed up my feelings better than any words could. We're all Chi-Chi in this panel, reacting to Akira Toriyama's death. And we're all Gohan too, each of us consoling one another with our own thoughts and tributes.
So what did Akira Toriyama mean to us all? Lots of people have answered this in a lot of different ways. Obviously his art, storytelling and cultural impact speak for themselves. I've seen people compare him to other luminaries like Jack Kirby and Osamu Tezuka. I'll try to add my own two cents with this:
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I wrote a post about "Dragon Ball Daima" back when it was first announced, and I led off with this image of a note from Akira Toriyama. I guess this was from some big fancy presentation about Daima at a convention. I forget which one. In particular, I was skeptical that the Daima rumors were even true, and if they were, the whole idea seemed half-baked to me. Turning Goku into a kid had been done before, and it wasn't exactly successful the first time.
But this note from Toriyama was very reassuring to me. More than the trailer clips and character designs, this was what got me interested in the show. That's because he took the time to not only hype up the show, but also to explain what's going on behind the premise. He took the time to tell everyone that he's working on this show, and what "Daima" means, and why all the characters get turned into kids. It's "due to a conspiracy", and the good guys will have to "fix things". In short, he established a plot, conflict, and resolution to the story. He didn't just slap this together to sell new merch. I'm sure that was part of the motivation to make Daima, but there's more to it than that.
I think that's the loss I feel with Toriyama's passing. It's not that there won't be new Dragon Ball stories in the future. I'm sure others will continue telling their own versions long after I'm gone. I'm not that worried about the fate of Daima. I'm sure they'll figure something out, whether it's delayed, rewritten, or canceled. But we'll never see another message from Toriyama to promote a new project, and that's what I'll miss. From here on, his credit will just be an acknowledgement of his past contributions.
There's this great credibility with Akira Toriyama's name. Fans will argue about how involved he was in a project as a way of establishing how good or bad it was. Dragon Ball GT has his name on the credits, and he provided some designs and artwork early on, and for some fans that proves the series has his endorsement. For others, the sole problem with the show is that he wasn't directly writing the script. There's similar debates over Dragon Ball Super, where he was involved, but only writing those mysterious "notes". So if a fan doesn't like something in DBS, who do they blame? Did Toriyama lose his touch, or did his co-creators fumble the ball? Dragon Ball Evolution basically ignored all of Toriyama's advice and bombed, while Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, Broly, and Super Hero all put Toriyama's writing credits up at the very beginning, and each film made plenty of money. I read his comments on the Daima confirmation, and immediately thought "Okay, this should be pretty good. Akira Toriyama knows what's up."
That's gone now. I mean, there's still a lot of talent out there, but we'll never again have the little gas mask-wearing robot telling us that this story will be good because he worked on making it good. I don't think I really appreciated how much I trusted that guy until now. I still can't believe he's really gone.
I'll probably have more to say about this in the coming days, but I'll stop here for now. Thanks for letting me ramble a bit on this.
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genericpuff · 1 month
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saw a post criticizing lore rekindled a while back, and one of the points made was "it's unfair to rachel that someone else can profit off and make money off her work"
do you profit off lore rekindled??? i don't remember if you ever said that you were monetizing lore rekindled, so i'm unsure where this piece of information came from
I literally do NOT profit off Rekindled in any way shape or form, it's a Tumblr comic that's free to read, zero subscriptions, paywalls, or ads.
I did just recently open a Patreon and apply my Twitch channel to become affiliate, but 1. my Patreon doesn't have any paid members yet , 2. my Patreon won't be offering rewards that limit the reading experience of Rekindled (it's gonna be like random doodles n junk), and 3. I haven't even streamed since I applied for Affiliate and people are watching the streams for art and lo-fi, not for any sort of exclusive reading experiences that wouldn't also be accessible on Tumblr (you just get to watch me slowly work on Rekindled while playing FF XIV LMAOO) All of these restrictions I have in place is to prevent exactly what folks assume or accuse me - profiting off Rachel's IP. At the end of the day I just wanna create an AU fanfic project, even if it's created out of disappointment for what could have been.
I *do* spend a few hundred a month though for my assistant. So I'm working on Rekindled completely at a loss, out of my own pocket. So in that regard, even if I were to monetize any part of Rekindled... it wouldn't be for my own profitable gain, I'd maybe be able to cover some of my assistant fees 🤣 (but that's just hypothetical food for thought, because as I said above, I don't want to monetize Rekindled because of the potentially legal and ethical issues in doing so. Making money is also just not why I'm making Rekindled because it's something I wanna just do for fun! Money complicates things, turns shit into a job :'0) And let's be real, in that hypothetical scenario, I don't think any money I could generate on my free to read Tumblr project would come anywhere close to threatening Rachel's bottom line 🤣
And this isn't to throw anyone under the bus but when people get suspicious of Rekindled profiting off LO, I can't help but think of the actual fans of LO selling handmade LO merch on Etsy and LO-style adoptables and other arts and crafts dedicated to their favorite comic. And I'm not gonna judge them for that, more power to 'em if people wanna buy their cool stuff (and some of it is really REALLY cool, like I wanna buy their stuff too LOL), I just think it's ironic that people separate the two because... I'm not a diehard fan? Or because Rekindled has gotten popular here. Beats me. All that "popularity" is still just a niche remake of a niche comic in a niche medium. It's not Spiderman Lotus levels of big 🤣 but I know it probably feels that big to people who are engaged with this fandom and spend a lot of time in it.
There's an opposite side of being a yes man that perpetuates similar behavior on the other side - when you come up with reasons to rag on someone just for the sake of it because you can't rationalize them NOT being the all 100% pulp of evil LMAO (and I see people do this even to Rachel and it's not fair imo, like people who use the Lolita thing as a way to accuse Rachel of being a legitimate pedophile? Like no, I don't think we should be normalizing serious accusations like that. I think she's just misinformed in a lot of ways at worst and suffering from dark romantasy porn brainrot at best LOL).
Like, as an example, I've also seen people claim stuff like I'm in the fan spaces telling people not to read LO and to read LR instead? Which like... why would I do that, LR isn't for the fans anyways and I don't gain anything by being a dick in their space 🤣 If my own readers are doing that, that's out of my hands (but respectfully don't do this please!!! there's a reason I don't use the standard LO hashtags and only stick to the anti ones!!!!) but again (and this is a big assumption so take with grains of salt) I think people just like to claim these things because they feel it's just naturally the right thing to do when someone who has opinions they don't like actually puts them into action. Because now they can't say shit like "well if you think you're so much smarter than Rachel why don't YOU write the story!" and "you don't know what it's like to manage a comic!" so they grapple onto whatever other argument they can even if it's misconstrued or entirely pulled out of thin air and not backed up with any legitimate evidence.
Their perspectives make sense to them. My perspective makes sense to me. I don't blame people for being suspicious when they see someone like me pour this much time and effort and money into a project like Rekindled, they assume it HAS to do with something they can rationalize from their own point of view, like wanting to "steal" Rachel's work or profit off it or take it for myself out of "jealousy".
Sorry to disappoint y'all with a boring answer, but I'm just someone who was once a huge fan of LO and couldn't let it go. I'm just someone who's way too hyperfixated, with a lot of passion for making comics and experience to match. I'd still be making it even if I didn't have an assistant. I'd still be making it even if I was stuck working with nothing but paper and pencil. Because I love making it and I love what it means to me, and I love that it makes other people feel the same way I do about it.
And that's really all I have to say on that.
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sylvan-librarian · 4 months
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In response to the (really good!) story for Murders at Karlov Manor, I've been seeing some (thankfully limited) discourse on the same old tired argument that Magic story has no stakes because characters can die and then come back to life as a ghost or get (seemingly permanently) turned into robot monsters and then get better eventually.
People can obviously feel what they feel and believe what they believe about Magic story, but personally, I'm just so tired of this argument. Magic story is largely a marriage of high fantasy and superhero comics. These two types of literature have much in common, but one similarity stands out in my mind: the impermanence of character death. Comic book superheroes famously won't stay dead, and while this fact has been controversial for decades, it is nonetheless a cornerstone of the genre. And hell, even in The Lord of Rings - the god-emperor and founding text of the entire fantasy genre (for better or worse) - Tolkien's wizard OC Gandalf dies and comes back to life STRONGER ... nigh invincibly powerful (if LotR was written today, people would call Gandalf [and probably Aragorn for that matter] a Mary Sue).
This not my attempt to shill for a corporation, mind you. In contrast, I'd rather see MORE people complaining about things worth complaining about:
The increasing price of the game gatekeeping so many from the hobby
Hasbro firing 1,000 employees right before Christmas
WotC sending hired thugs to someone's house over a mistake the company itself made
The focus on the collectability of cards over how they play
And I'm not even saying there aren't aspects of Magic story itself worth critiquing. To note:
The enjoyability of its prose is inconsistent at times (reread the Magic Origins stories, for example)
The messaging is sometimes off (i.e. - the worst bad guys in the entire universe are folks who use science to make their bodies more in line with their view of themselves)
The stories - especially the big epic ones - are rarely given time to breathe, and the authors are clearly asked to do a lot with very little
War of the Spark: Forsaken
Maybe asking people to have a more nuanced take on the storyline of a children's card game is too much, but I think that "story bad" is far too dismissive. I remember reading through the All Will Be One stories thinking: "Well, there is actually NO WAY WotC is going to kill off ALL of these characters that got phyrexianized." Jace and Ajani are literally two of the main characters of Magic; Nissa, Vraska, and Nahiri are maybe less popular and important to the overall setting, but they all nonetheless have their extremely devoted fans (me; I'm one of those fans; bet you can't guess of which 'walker). I find it a bit silly to assume that the mass permadeath of named characters would be how the Phyrexian arc would end. Modern Magic is just not the type of story where the creators will merc half of their cast just to appease certain sentiments about its literary value.
This post has turned into a lot of meandering nonsense, but here's what I'm largely trying to get across: I wish more people would accept Magic story for what it is, not for what they think it should be. I'm NOT saying people shouldn't have standards for their entertainment, but they also shouldn't expect Shakespeare* - or even Tolkien - from a story about wizard superheroes written to provide a backdrop for a children's card game.
*I also want to mention here: characters dying and then coming back is also present in Shakespeare.
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neonscandal · 3 months
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something I wanted to understand, the author said that satoru was quite a womanizer, but then he said that geto was much more popular among women than satoru I didn't understand
Technically, the author said that they didn't see Gojo being faithful to one or a certain woman not that he was a womanizer.
With what we know about Gojo (and Gege Akutami's trolling ways, for that matter), I think that's up for interpretation.
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FAN INTERPRETATION
Fans really took that sentiment and kind of ran with it because, to us, Gojo is high spec in every way. Canonically good looking, tall, competent at like.. everything according to Akutami, strong and presumably loaded. Of course someone like that would be a womanizer, right?
Except Gojo is an oversized child who still kinda refers to Digimon in conversation and primarily hangs out with 16 year olds. People project a lot of their BS onto him because they can't imagine ticking all those boxes and not being an asshole. But he’s a corny dork who is seemingly impervious to the outright disdain of most of the people around him. IT’S COMICAL. Personally, I think this interpretation is incorrect, demonstrably.
The other side of the fandom is naturally like... well of course he couldn't stay faithful to one woman. He's been faithful to Geto for ten years! I think we know what camp I've pitched my tent in *gestures vaguely to the rest of my blog* Especially when you bear in mind that Gege Akutami specifically designed Gojo and Geto to be intrinsic complements of one another.
CANON
I'm not so SatoSugu addled (once the brain rot sets in, it's terminal) that I am unable to disclose the secret third way we can interpret this. Canonically, when we look at Gojo as a character... it almost makes sense to assume he's simply not interested in dating at all.
Empirically finds it hard to relate to others
Even when he does care for others, he's still emotionally shallow and aware of it
Gojo clan leader with all associated unpleasantries and responsibilities from a young age
Single benefactor to two children; assumes direct responsibility over two more by staving off their execution
First line of defense for all of jujutsu society
Has a grand design of toppling said jujutsu society
Has experienced devastating loss which informs the grand design of his life's mission and he's always plotting, even when it comes to the seemingly altruistic act of "adopting" the Fushiguro kids or pressing Yuta and Yuji to learn under his care. When you consider that context, it furthers the idea that he's pretty divorced from emotion. Like, he wants them to have a childhood but its still at the pleasure of his convenience and ultimate purpose.
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LOOK at this gorgeous, gorgeous boy from pop layer art because I need it and, when I covet, you must also covet. Edit: I'd accidently copied the wrong link there! It's been fixed 💙
In universe, we've seen maybe two canonical couples: Yuta & Rika and Hakari & Kirara (to be animated). This supports the fact that Gege's not really concerned with injecting "romance" into the plot unnecessarily. Undeniably and supporting the SatoSugu agenda, however, is the fact that JJK 0 very much aligned Gojo & Geto with Yuta & Rika with the theme coming to a head in season 2 with Gojo's sealment. For clarity, I mean how love ultimately cursed Rika and Geto after death by Yuta's begging her not to leave and Gojo not properly disposing of Geto's body. Love turned Rika into a curse and allowed Kenjaku to swoop in on Geto.
GETO'S POPULARITY
Geto is, quite literally, popular with everyone in universe and that was before he became a cult leader... which also indicates a predilection for popularity, I guess? As a character, he is principled, thoughtful, gentle and strong. I think, collectively, we tend to toil over the fact that Gojo spent more time missing Geto than he actually knew him. But... that's the same for Shoko and Nanami. After Geto's defection, Nanami couldn't forsake him even if he morally couldn't approve of his actions. Over ten years later as the night parade of a hundred demons is set to take place, Yaga starts saying something along the lines of finally getting rid of the scourge that is Suguru Geto and Shoko makes it a point to leave. I think it's because, after everything, she still holds affection and pity for Geto and would rather not hear him being bad-mouthed for breaking under the pressure of things.
He was the best of them, after all.
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melodyfsoul1 · 7 months
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You know what? Let me rant about Comic Loki & MCU Loki for a bit, because I have been thinking about this for weeks now...
Loki's Character/ Story is so freaking tragic, both Comic & MCU Loki.
In the Comics Loki almost always plays the role of an antagonist or villain (usually for the sake of the story, but that makes Loki's story so difficult, there are many ups and downs.
In the Comics & the MCU Loki was always the mischief maker who brought the Avengers together (on multiple occasions actually) but besides that his story was a mix of his own path, mythology influences and writers going "hey we need a villain for our comic and Loki's popular"
So considering Loki's long life, a deal that has to do with reincarnation, and lots of life experience in playing both the villain and the hero, Loki KNOWS how he is perceived, how others mistrust & even fear him, and for a while he was fine with that.
But after a while he wanted to be more than just the God of Lies ("Evil" as many people wrongly assume)
Loki wants to Change. He actively tries to change, to be good for literally SEVERAL arcs, (Kid Loki, Agent of Asgard Loki and Loki God of Stories)
BUT everytime he either:
- Fails to Change because old habits die hard so he stays a villain
- Changes and gets bored of his, now nice but limited life, because he could be more and ends up reverting back to his old ways
- Or ( the in my opinion saddest option), he manages to change through hard work, to truly be good, but either gets betrayed by his loved ones, or no one even gives him the chance to proof that he can change, saying its not in his nature, that he will always be a villain.
So then he goes the route of "you will always see me as nothing but the villain I once was, no matter how hard I try change.... so why should I even try? You want a villain, fine, let me play the role of the villan"
Hell, in the comics Loki makes a deal with two Entities to literally "rewrite his fate" to that of a hero, knowing he would have to pay the price of a "heroes death" for the story. He literally chose to "die soon/ young, possibly sacrificing himself, but be finally perceived as good", over "staying alive but always be seen as the villain"
And what makes this even sadder, is that this is EXACTLY the Fate the MCU Loki got.
The main timeline Loki got the chance to go from "misunderstood Villain", to Antihero to Hero, and what did he get?
A HEROES DEATH
No second chance at life for redeeming himself? No, he was brutally murdered by his biggest tormentor and greatest fear, sacrificing himself to safe his brother and their people's lives, and I hate it.... he deserves a happy end too...
A character's story/ redemption doesnt need to end in death to be concluded, let them live, let them have this 2nd chance, living and dealing with what they have dome & changing to be better is hard enough as it is
So I hope at least MCU Variant Loki gets to have a happier end, have friends & family.
As you can tell, I still have a very complex hate / acceptance relationship with how main timeline MCU Loki was treated... I could go on for this for hours, but Im gonna make myself sad.... so, thats my little rant for now, Thank You for reading :D
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ihopesocomic · 2 months
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I think what a lot of people who have issues with you (aside from the youtube lion show stans) is that you dont baby people
People ask for obvious spoilers and you just say "we'll see!" (Unless its been asked several times in which case you explain that)
People try to push for bigotry to be in your comic which you wont stand for
People refuse to actually read the comic and want it explained and you have to put your foot down and tell them to read the comic
Ect ect ect ive never seen you guys get unreasonable with any messages, angry? Short? Sure some of the anons you get are like "why is hope have 3 legs?" Its completely understandable to be angry at messages like that
Yea that's pretty much the vibe we get too tbh. But we're not gonna apologize for having standards and we're not going to change how we present ourselves if it means putting in extra mental energy to be overly polite to bad faith actors or people who just simply ignore what we put out unless its addressing them personally.
You mentioning the spoilers incident is interesting because the person who brought that up would later state that spoilers weren't their issue at all, just us being "condescending" because they made the personal choice to read our neutral responses as such. Or us using 'lol' whenever we indicate we're being light hearted. Because not everybody who uses 'lol' is being snarky or rude.
Ultimately, being given the benefit of the doubt would go a long way instead of people automatically assuming we're being nasty or "unprofessional" because of things like 'they criticized something I enjoy" or "Well, I didn't like that they weren't bowled over by an ask I sent two years ago' or just anything that happened years ago LOL
Anyway. Some people may be fine with spoiling the whole story of their project, but not us. We're having a lot of fun keeping people guessing, especially if they guess correctly and their theory is proven in a future chapter. We do big high fives when that happens lol
The people who outright demand inclusion of bigotry are especially confusing because at best its people thinking our one little comic that's not-that-popular-actually constitutes as erasure of the queer/disabled struggle. And at worst it's people who somehow can't find value in entertainment unless it's misery porn. And both of these instances they claim the existence of IHS in its current form takes away from the countless already-existing content that covers both, or somehow shames people for including it in their own story when we've never said such a thing. Anything we've said either applies to us personally or we're criticizing mainstream media that takes our experiences and makes them palatable to a mainstream audience. (At it's funniest it's nerd fans who criticize our comic for being a knock-off of MP while in the same breath complain that it's not doing the same thing as MP)
And an insincere sorry in advance to people who want us to spoon-feed them information in the comic. I was under the impression that when you saw a web comic, you had intentions on reading it. Heck, we have a dub now, you don't even have to read anymore technically. But I value my time too much to explain every single detail that may go missed in a chapter. Some stuff we feel confident in our readers piecing together on their own because we respect their intelligence, and most times there's no incorrect conclusion to arrive to because leaving some things up to interpretation is better than over explaining it. But maybe I'm just a meanie. - Cat
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night-at-the-musian · 8 months
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the beginner’s guide to the natm fandom
hi i’m ian, local voice actor and sweet tea fanatic. i’ve been part of this fandom for about a year, and i’ve learned a lot. i’ve noticed some new and younger folks joining bc of the new movie (and the owen wilson fandom will never die) so i’ve made this lil guide for what the heck people are talking abt in the tags.
this comic by madguth. went viral in 2021. now part of the classic pride posts that make the rounds every june. (the other pride post, 2023 edition)
any weather. arguably the most popular natm fic series of the modern era, and possibly the most popular overall. spawned a lot of tropes that everyone assumes to be canon (aka fanon). examples: everyone’s got a backstory from their period of history, adding new dios at will, and other tropes i can’t think of but trust me you’ll know em when you see em.
the 2020 cast interview.
this jedtavius comp of the live-action era.
the natm search. i run this project, helps find stuff related to the franchise that’s been lost or made obscure.
all caught up? ok sick. welcome to history hell, hope you like cowboys.
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dykeseesgod · 5 months
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none of the dog sees god characters are popular theyre all weirdo loser freaks no one likes but the majority of them are too self centered to even realize this. my reasoning 👇 (ITS REALLY LONG AND THERE ARE MULTIPLE IMAGES. WARNING)
ok this has kinda like always been how i interpreted things and then i looked literally anywhere else where people are talking about dog sees god and all the summaries are like pigpen and charlie brown and peppermint patty and marcie are COOL and POPULAR and BULLY the UNDERLING that is SCHROEDER. and that just like. doesnt feel right? like narratively that feels incorrect so im going to explain this now.
first ok. so this is also like a completely separate pet peeve of mine but the text literally never says that cb and matt play football like literally every single fucking source everywhere says. like matts page on the villains wiki says one of his hobbies is playing football and like. no???? they never???? say that????? like ok. we know their school HAS a football team (beethoven mentions it in the vipers nest) and we know cb and matt play SOME sport (matt mentions that they "shower together after practice" in the hangover) but the connection is never explicitly drawn between the two. in FACT beethovens line about the football team (below)
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kind of like. goes against the idea that cb and matt are on the football team??? like hes talking to cb here i feel like if beethoven were to mention even sarcastically ogling a group that cb is apart of hed make some kind of comment about it. like this is before their whole thing gets resolved theyre still fighting when he says this line it would make complete sense for cb to say something about this. and like ok its peanuts right like just reminding everyone that its peanuts. you know what sport it would make more sense that charlie fucking brown plays like you know what sport it would seem logical for him to play oh i dont know fucking BASEBALL????? im realizing now that this is like a lot less relevant to my original idea than i thought but i still want to keep it here. i think its just kinda like. its not canon that theyre super popular stars of the football team for all we know they could be playing fucking tennis the fact that they play A Sport doesnt make them well liked. also it literally never says at any point that theyre even good even if they are on the football team they could be the worst players we dont fucking know!!! need i remind you of charlie browns only* experience with football
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*besides youre in the super bowl charlie brown but that specials bad so were ignoring it. and its not like he was good at football in that either
and if you buy into the idea that they play baseball (which you should baseball is such an integral part of peanuts it makes the most sense) charlie brown (and pigpen for what its worth. also like everyone else too) is DOGSHIT at baseball like its an entire decades long running joke how fucking awful they are at baseball. "maybe he practiced and got better" hes terrible to his bones practice does nothing. heart
ok onto more substantial points. so if you buy into the interpretation that their childhood was just literally normal peanuts (which you should because its very funny) then you can assume that these guys have all known eachother since elementary school (and even if you dont there are multiple lines that reference them being friends as kids so point still stands). but also by virtue of dsg being a peanuts parody and a lot of the comedy just coming from "haha that s like from the comic strip :)" (I WILL TALK ABOUT THE INHERENT TRAGEDY OF THIS LATER) besides like. one guy. every single character mentioned is an established peanuts character. and like idk about you but my highschool is a LOT bigger than my elementary school. like. there are substantially more people there. what im trying to say that while not impossible it is fucking WEIRD to have a decently sized friendgroup that has not changed the slightest bit in almost a decade. what im getting at is these bitches are INSULAR!!!!!!!! they are extremely hyperfocused on an only think about people from their childhoods. i will get back to this
LETS TALK ABOUT SALISBURY STEAK CAN WE TALK ABOUT SALISBURY STEAK PLEASE GOD MAC IVE BEEN DYING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT SALISBURY STEAK ALL DAY ok so this scene. woof. ok. this is where the majority of my reasoning for this comes from. first, i want to draw attention to the fact that frieda, the girl that tricia and marcy make fun of so frequently, is another goddamn peanuts character. and so another elementary school friend. it just doesnt end with these bitches do you think about anything else!!!!!!
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if tricia and marcy had any kind of actual social standing, them constantly gossiping and shittalking frieda would matter to her. being so constantly and relentlessly made fun of by popular people would have an impact (hi yes i know youre thinking of beethoven ignore him for now were gonna come back to him). but it doesnt! frieda doesnt care about what tricia and marcy think of her, why would she? theyre just those two girls from elementary school who are angry all the time. friedas on the outside, shes not apart of this. the only student mentioned thats not a peanuts character? thats her boyfriend. she is the only window into the world of normalcy
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THIS^^ THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE LINE THAT GAVE ME THIS WHOLE IDEA IN THE FIRST PLACE. im fairly certain the purpose of this line is to place doubt in our minds on whether or not what we assumed the entire play is actually true. which its not!!! of course this isnt the cool table, all these people do is argue an gossip an stew in their own misery!!!!
ummmm lighting round of things that support my point. if they really were these ultimate cool all powerful popular kids why the hell are they still friends with van. van is a burnout stoner with a sister in an psych ward. considering the things they pounce on to make fun of, this is MORE than enough to completely open fire. but theyre not gonnaaaaa because theyre in the same boat as him!!!!! van and them are on the same level of popularity!!!!!! ummalso THE PARTY the party. the only other guests mentioned to be at this party are franklin (another peanuts character, another childhood friend) and fucking RERUN ? in the comics rerun is established to be MUCH younger than the main cast, even younger than sally, who is mostly shown to be in kindergarten, meaning hed be in middle school at the MOST. and its not like this is a party at vans house and his brother just happens to be there NO!!! THIS IS MARCYS PARTY HE BROUGHT RERUN WITH HIM LITERALLY WHY IS RERUN THERE. THIS PARTY FUCKING SUCKS I KNOW IT IN MY SOUL.
were coming back to beethoven now the thing is that hes in the exact same boat as everyone else. while we do know that its not just the main cast that are outwardly homophobic ("i only got called a queer 3 times ^_^!") it is consistently shown that the main perpetrators are the main cast, much more so than anyone else. beethoven posits that the only reason cb only got called queer is because everyones scared hell beat them up, but i do think its worth considering that the main cast are the only ones who would ever enact actual violence. beethoven is in the same situation, but moreso by force than by choice. hes forced to relive reminders of traumatic childhood events and forced to cling to the past BECAUSE the people that target him used to be his friends. theres a reason they were the only people in peer counseling.
like i said, there is a certain tragedy that comes with dsg being a peanuts parody. its because of the referential comedy that bert royal created a cast of characters so self centered and so hung up on the past that theyre still extremely fixated on the kinds of people they were and the drama they had and their feelings about eachother from when they were literally fucking 8 years old. and isnt that jsut so much more thematically interesting than "oohh popular kid bully gay unpopular kid ooohhhh" theyre all unreliable narrators!!!!!!!! theyre all sick freaks and everyone knows it!!!!!!!! there is no possible justification for their actions, theyre hypocrites plain and simple.
or maybe im reading into everything too much idk its 1 am im talking about the fucking peanuts yaoi fag play. bye
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amarriageoftrueminds · 2 months
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thinking about how before catfa was released there was some scepticism about if Captain America would work for modern audiences.
a lot of people not really familiar with the comics thought his character was too old-fashioned and outdated and would not be relatable in the 21st century.
fast forward and after making several movies showing Steve does in fact belong in modern times they end his arc by sending him back to the 40s, proving those ppl right who thought he was too outdated for our times.
what was even the point of all his movies?? i know the answer it to make money.
but even from a business point of view it's mind boggling that Disney was so careless and put so little thought into how they ended the story of one of their most popular characters of the first 3 phases that now a good chunk of the audience believes Steve is some racist and sexist guy.
i'm sure they'll bring him back one day, either for some avengers multiverse nostalgia fest or when they reboot the MCU, and it won't have the same effect because Steve just isn't as beloved as he used to be. not that i care about the success of this soulless megacorp but i'm still baffled after all these years about how stupid his ending was.
The entire point of Steve is that he was a main out of time in his own time. He was ahead of his time. Which is why he does work, (and why he is needed!) in the future. Whenever that future may be.
I'll tell you what it is... the people in charge of Steve in the MCU are exactly as ignorant of the character as people who don't know anything about who Steve is in the comics. (I.E. the 'well he's wearing the stars and stripes so I assume he's some kind of jingoistic pro-imperialism figure and therefore I don't like him on sight' crowd, closely related to the 'well he's polite and neatly-dressed and not a dick for attention, so he must be a boring goody-two shoes boy scout type' crowd.) Wrong on every count!
Markus & McFeely think the way to 'do' Steve is to make sure we know he's straight, while love of Bucky, relationship with his other men, and his passion for fighting fascism, are all reduced to the status of footnotes in a story whose only question is 🙄 '...yeah yeah, fighting Nazis is fine or w/e but when is he gunna get a girlfriend??'
So they don't see anything amiss in an ending where Steve goes (back in time) to get a girlfriend. Because they think that was the only relatable or important thing about him. Making sure the handsome hero is just like them!
And why they also don't see anything amiss in him being a walk-on part in a Mary Sue/Captain Brexit story. Because it's just more of the 'Steve's only important trait is heterosexuality' narrative. 🤷‍♀️
(As far as they're concerned, stucky was an embarrassing and completely unintended side effect, something they want stifled by any means necessary, and when it comes to Steve being as full blown antifa as he is in the comics- oh, well, we musn't alienate the Republican shareholders/CEOs/customers. Walt Disney himself would be completely on board.)
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idkaguyorsomething · 5 months
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Is it weird that I am perfectly fine with Araki giving Jodio a severe mental illness but still wish he had given Jodio a different one?
sorry it took so long to answer this one, i was trying to figure out how exactly to answer it, and it turns out there's a lot of different ways:
from a perspective of representation: mental illness is an incredibly stigmatized subject, and in mediums like manga and comic books even more so, as it is incredibly common for a lot of popular plots in those mediums to go "well, x character went crazy, that's why they're evil", as well as stories in general to associate a lack of empathy with a lack of ability to act in traditionally heroic ways. jjba itself has shown that, as part of dio's initial villainous characterization involves him showing a lack of empathy towards various figures such as dario or george (although this isn't the only way his villainy is characterized, as we're also shown right off the bat that he's very deliberately cruel). with jodio being set up as more of an anti-hero, giving him more traits that could be considered unheroic as well as a commonly stigmatized mental disorder, it makes sense to not have that sit quite right. but taking the history of the series into mind, jojo's is no stranger to exploring more shades of gray in its protagonists in its past. johnny and gappy have certainly committed far greater acts of brutality in their parts, while giorno, who jodio is set up as a parallel to, outright aspires to be a head of organized crime. even josuke, who is portrayed as one of the kindest and most pure-of-heart jojos, basically condemns a guy to a fate worse than death in his first arc. this isn't necessarily anything new the series is giving us, and the fact that the jojolands is largely portrayed from the perspective of jodio himself is a massive plus, as it gives us insight into his thought processes and helps us sympathize with a character we might not have done so otherwise (telling a story from the perspective of someone doesn't necessarily ask us to sympathize with them, but things like the goofy jokes he makes with dragona, his own insight on his diagnosis, and his clear love for his family go a long way towards making jodio likeable). one could view this as the natural progression of jojos tending towards the anti-heroic while araki explores more marginalized communities he's interested in portraying, or a poorly thought out decision that furthers stigma towards said marginalized communities. personally, i think it's still too early in the story to make any real judgements, but the way i see it it's kind of similar to the situation with jolyne. she's the only female jojo, and the only one besides jonathan who ultimately fails in her quest at the end of her part. there are narrative and thematic reasons for doing so, but it doesn't sit right with a lot of people, and that's perfectly fine.
from a medical perspective: according to the dsm 5, a person must fit at least three of the criteria for antisocial personality disorder in order to be diagnosed as having it, most of which jodio does fit. failure to conform to social laws and norms (he's a teenage drug dealer), deceitfulness (when barbara ann asks him where he is and if he's hanging out with paco, he lies), impulsivity (he destroys one of the lava rocks to try and get rohan to cooperate), aggressiveness (he kicks that one fucking cop until he's a stain on the ground, twice, although he is justified in his actions and this kind of willingness to fight people is essentially a requirement to be a jojo), reckless disregard of safety (again, practically a requirement for most main characters), consistent irresponsibility (assuming what we've been shown of him is how he acts all the time, yes, although the story so far takes place over too small of a timeframe to determine that), and lack of remorse (dragona has to remind him not to get too violent in the opening chapter with the cop). so he does fit most of the criteria, but it is also a requirement that, to receive a diagnosis, a person must be eighteen or older, with evidence of having fit some of the criteria before the age of fifteen. so by real world standards, jodio would be on track to being diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, but actually receiving it from a high school psychologist is bullshit. then again, this is the universe where the president made a cowboy race battle royale where the contestants had to collect magic body parts, so it's entirely possible that psychiatric standards in that world are just different. but you would be entirely justified in not liking his diagnosis, and there are several other disorders that fit the behavior that jodio shows. there's adhd (the impulsivity and tendency to get lost in daydreams and beating the shit out of cops), depression (the sense of emptiness he describes upon being given his diagnosis), anxiety (irritability and angry outbursts), and that's just some of the more common disorders. we haven't even gotten into some other full-on personality disorders or common comorbidities with antisocial personality disorder! from this perspective, your assessment is totally fair.
from a thematic perspective: as mentioned earlier, jojo's is no stranger to making its heroes increasingly reflected in shades of gray, and parts seven and eight especially make a point of contrasting their protagonists with their respective foils from parts one and four. johnny is a paraplegic gringo jockey twink that murders people so hard his friend the executioner had to tell him to slow down, in contrast with the jacked and kindly gentleman jonathan who impressed a stranger so much with his dignity that he immediately joined him in his quest. gappy is a quirky lil amnesiac who beats people to death with shovels while josuke has one of the more normal personalities of all the jojos and possibly the lowest kill count. at first it might seem like giorno and jodio are the most similar duo, since they're both criminals that act a-okay with murder, but while giorno's goals and reasoning for joining the criminal underground are motivated by a sense of empathy towards the people of italy and a belief in a higher ideology that passione can aspire to, jodio is a very self-centered kid. he has a very inflated idea of his own reputation, can't spot obvious traps, and the very first thing we're told about him is that he wants to be stinking rich. he also believes in the ideology of mechanisms, but it's an ideology that is explicitly centered around gain and his own material wealth, in contrast to giorno's philosophy, which involves ideals of self-improvement and certain boundaries that should not be crossed in the pursuit of power. giorno's ruthlessness stems from a place of compassion, so having his counterpart being someone who lacks the ability to feel empathy is a really interesting choice that gives the story a lot of places to go. the fact that the other criteria he fills, like impulsiveness and irresponsibility, stand in direct contrast to giorno's ambition and planning ahead, also adds further potential for the jojolands to explore a completely different sort of crime story than golden wind. so from this perspective, i'd say that your assessment is rather harsh.
tl;dr there's a lot of different angles to approach this question from. it's 90% probably that i completely misunderstood what you were trying to ask, though, so please tell me what i got wrong :P
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positivelybeastly · 3 months
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Does the x-office hate beast?
Cynically: yes.
Less cynically: it's complicated?
Like, here's the thing, right - Beast fans are . . . kinda rare. Sure, there's tons of people who saw the 90s cartoon and really liked him, there are tons of people who saw X-Men 3 and liked him there, there's a whole (almost separate) community of people who are still writing X-Men: First Class fanfic about that version of Hank.
But I'm talking about, will go out and write fanfiction about the character; will draw fanart of him; will actively go out of their way to talk about him on social media. I feel like that's been on the decline for the last . . . fuck, 30 years, probably? Ever since he went from this
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to this.
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Like, the difference is jarring and immediate, right?
And that lack of a dedicated fanbase made him an easy character to contort to fit stories that certain writers wanted to tell. The X-office doesn't have a ton of people gagging to write Beast, he doesn't headline his own series, he doesn't have a rabid Twitter populace who will fight and scream and shout like Emma Frost or Cyclops.
What do most people think when they see Beast? Like, normal people who don't read comics, who just consume maybe a Marvel movie twice a year, or saw a cartoon when they were a kid.
"Oh, he's cool. SO ANYWAY, MORE OF THAT WOLVERINE."
Beast is not a character with a strong base.
So he's just.
Disposable.
Who cares, throw Beast to Bendis or Ben Percy, I don't care, is what it feels like.
As for WHY he doesn't have that dedicated fanbase, well, I have theories.
A lot of Hank stories are just, sad. They're just so fucking sad and tragic and dark and about finding light where you can.
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I often find them very cathartic, like, Hank leads such a troubled and harsh life, and he savours the pleasures where he can get them, and I really love that aspect of his character, that unyielding spirit, but that does not make for a popular character.
His feline era, from 2000 to 2012, is honestly my favourite for him because he is so nuanced and his themes of learning to love your body and control yourself, and his thoughtful, measured, deeply moralistic stories resonate with me and provide me with comfort, the idea that people can be tempted to do bad in the service of good but turn away is beautiful to me.
But that's not really an easily sell? People don't usually want to be sad when they read comic books. They want to be thrilled or horrified or made to laugh. Sad is . . . harder to sell.
Honestly, I also think there's a degree of assuming that he's a snobby asshole because he talks fancy. Like, I legit think that plays into it, and you sometimes see writers fall for the same preconception, they assume that Hank is a snob, and he really isn't, he's a lower-middle class kid from Illinois who grew up on a farm and whose dad was involved in a horrific radiation accident because of poor safety conditions, this is not a person who would be snobby.
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It's so funny to me because the guy is from a fictional place in Illinois? It's never specified, which means, if anything, he probably sounds like he's from Chicago! Now, there's probably a degree to which he does speak more formally and has changed his voice, because Hank is extremely protective and conscious of the image he projects, always has been, but snobby? Pfft, nooooo. So yeah, absolutely, you see people assuming that he's a snob because he's smart. Snobby only plays well if you're Emma Frost.
I also have to say, I think there's a degree to which there's an anti-intellectual bias going on. If you look at pretty much all of the major genius characters, they are pretty much ALL unpopular because they are nerds and they are not usually portrayed as being great fighters or tacticians, which is an easy way for a character to become popular - that's why Cyclops is so popular, because he's right all the time and he's a badass, and that's an easy pop. Science solutions are inherently less visceral, harder to write and thus rarer, and do not stick in people's minds.
Moreover, what do you think of when you think of genius superhero? The reputation is of privilege and the image is of boring white guys, they assume it's just - boring. It's only interesting if it's cloaked in sarcastic wit, like House or Sherlock (during The Dark Times), or used in a martial sense, which is why Black Panther is the exception to the 'all the nerds are boring.' Bruce Banner also escapes this trap because he's had his own solo comics for 60 years and he's had a million people write absolutely amazing stories for him.
I also think that his almost complete absence from the Claremont era stories hurts his fandom reputation, because if you're an X-Men fan, you read Claremont, and Hank is not in those stories almost at all. He pops up during the Mesmero arc, during Dark Phoenix, here and there, but he spends 1974 to 1991 in the Avengers, the Defenders, X-Factor, he is so very rarely being written by who most people would consider the definitive X-Men scribe. There's also an element of the stupid X-Men vs. Avengers tribalism working against him thanks to that.
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I think Claremont writes a pretty decent Hank when he does turn up, but there's a reason he picked Jean and Scott, and it's interesting that he chose to feature Hank more often than Warren and Bobby, and even then, Warren more than Bobby. I don't know if Hank was really heavily in demand so he just couldn't get him, or if he didn't know what stories to tell with him, but I actually kinda think it was the former, just because Hank always makes an appearance in his post-'91 work, especially his alternate timelines, and he was clearly interested in writing for him in X-Treme X-Men given he set up the Betsy romantic angle early, but then Morrison snatched him up.
Hank also got pushed into the role of the naysayer during the Fraction and Bendis era, which is an instant rock around the neck for your popularity. A lot of the arguments that Hank makes about why he doesn't like what Scott does and how he runs the X-Men and Utopia are not necessarily wrong?
Like, X-Force is just plain morally bad. It is.
You can make the argument that it's necessary, but these two things can exist at the exact same time, which appears to be a concept that people do not grasp! And especially, like . . . the X-Men are not an army. They are a voluntary paramilitary group that is, ostensibly, dedicated to mutant rescue, outreach, and general superheroics.
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You are not obliged to stay.
Hank was suffering from legitimate PTSD flashbacks, he was wracked with guilt over the Skrull bioweapon (which, notably, sticks to Hank but does NOT stick to Scott), he was very obviously depressed, recovering from torture - and when he reached out to Bobby to try and explain how he was feeling, draw some comfort, Bobby basically just told him to deal with it!
But this made him SO FUCKING UNPOPULAR. You can go to comics sites that have comments under this issue, under the issue where Hank is having PTSD flashbacks, and they'll be like, THIS IS WHERE IT ALL BEGAN, and I'm like???????? The fuck are you saying to me?????? WHY ARE YOU BOOING HIM HE'S RIGHT.
There's also a degree to which I think that, whether the writers have realised it or not, they do not usually put in the work to establish that the X-Men are doing their due diligence to make sure that Hank is okay. They rely a LOT on off-screen things happening to fill in the blanks. A short list of things that we have never seen!
The reaction from the O5 when Hank first turned furry.
The reaction from the Mansion X-Men when Hank turned into a cat.
Anyone going to visit Hank in the infirmary when he was recovering from his fur and claws falling out due to torture.
Anyone expressing concern over the fact that during the whole time travel debacle, Hank was dying and did not tell anyone.
You don't see these moments, and these are fucking important! These make you sympathetic to the character! These are the moments where people look at Beast in pain, suffering because of what's happened to him, going through his emotional arcs, showing strength as he perseveres, THAT is what builds a fanbase and keeps a fanbase engaged with a character - but they just stop happening for Hank. You don't see them. He loses his characterisation moments, they just happen off-panel.
But what do you see? You see a lot of people walk into Hank's lab, they receive words of wisdom and comfort, or a scientific solution for their problems, and then they walk out.
Like, Hank from Avengers vs. X-Men onwards reads as just - psychologically unstable. He does things on impulse, he reacts without talking to people, he does not have strong relationships with anyone, he appears to have broken up with his long time girlfriend (for no specified reason, we still don't know why 9 YEARS LATER), he often appears adrift and lost and unhappy.
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And we are TOLD during his intervention that people have talked to him about what's going on, and they were ignored, but, like, I'm sorry, FUCK OFF, SHOW YOUR GODDAMN WORK.
If you want your emotional moments to have any bite, then you need to ESTABLISH things!!! When Ororo says, oh, you're just ignoring everyone, I'm like, FUCKIN' SHOW ME WHEN YOU TALKED TO HIM. Because do you know what I DID see?
I saw Hank being the most comforting and lovely and soft individual in Storm's solo series, being there for her after Logan's death, BASICALLY BECOMING HER SECRETARY BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO FUCK OFF AND BE A THIEF, and then BOOM, suddenly, she's like, you're a fucking loose cannon.
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This was, like, a few months apart. Editors? Hello? Does Ororo fucking hate Hank or not? Because Bendis seems to be of the opinion that she does, but Greg Pak does not appear to have gotten the memo! HELLO? EDITORS? There's a big fucking GAP here where a story arc is meant to go???
There's so much of Hank's 2012-onward story that we just AREN'T shown. Like, he and Scott just - patch up their differences over the revolutionary thing OFF-PANEL during Hickman's Avengers. You don't even see the conversation. He agrees to try and work on the M-Pox cure, MOVES TO ATTILAN TO HELP THEM, all because Storm (WHOM, LAST WE SAW, WAS THREATENING TO PUT HIM IN PRISON FOR CRIMES AGAINST NATURE) convinced him to . . . and WE DO NOT SEE THIS CONVERSATION.
Every time someone pulls out the 'oh, this has been an expertly played baton pass of writers depicting Hank's moral downfall,' I just want to fucking pick up shit and fling it in their face, because they could not be more wrong.
Do you know who's read more Beast comics than these fuckers?
Me. It's me.
Believe me, if there was an actual DEPICTION of ANY of these MASSIVE emotional moments in Hank's life, I would LOVE to talk about them and agree. But they do not exist. It's a character being used as a narrative prop to justify writing decisions that otherwise wouldn't make sense (Inhumans vs. X-Men, All-New X-Men), and no-one cares because he was never that popular to begin with.
And it just - frustrates me, because, like, did you know that Hank formed a political advocacy group for mutant rights?
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Did you know he was present during sessions of Congress, giving his support to pro-mutant legislation and becoming long time friends with multiple politicians?
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But because it's in New Defenders, because it's in Secret Avengers, and no-one READ those issues, they don't care! It doesn't matter to them! Hank has, by and large, within the narrative, done SO MUCH for mutant rights, he has ACTIVELY worked for them within the system SO HARD, but because it isn't done with an optic blast or a big punchy fist in an X-Men book, it doesn't count.
And like, I just . . . the last few appearances before he starts being focused on in X-Force, before the heel turn, he is NOT acting like an asshole!
Laura literally calls him the nerd she can trust and he takes pictures of her and Gabby being cute during a party!
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He's helping Banshee recover from his Apocalypse corruption and teaching at Harvard, trying to actively retire from superhero work because he's exhausted!
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He's telling Captain Marvel, hey, you're wrong about your precognition bullshit in Civil War II, and he's helping Spider-Man with science problems, and he SAVES THE INHUMAN CIVILISATION SINGLEHANDEDLY!
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So many writers are trying to steer him back onto course. Not just Avengers books, either, X-Men books! There's, like, TWO, THREE writers who want to push evil, asshole Beast, and everyone else is just like, uhhh, nooo? But because the X-office do not care, they keep getting their chance. They don't care about protecting Beast's reputation, or his stories, or his legacy. He's just a character to be thrown wherever he'll fit.
So you get the narrative that he was always evil. He was decaying all along.
No, it's bullshit. It's literally the Scarlet Witch story again, where it just HAPPENS in fits and starts to kick off events and stories, regardless of whether or not it makes sense for past characterisation or continuity.
So, yeah. It's a combination of the X-office not really caring about protecting the image of the character, and certain writers just doing shoddy, shitty jobs of writing emotional checks that their asses weren't willing to cash.
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Text
taking classpect, flippin it turnways
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Hello. My name is Arcturus. I am here to talk about classpect. Why? Hard to say.
I've been percolating this for quite a while now, and I feel I have finally settled on a unified theory of classpect. But I feel I have to do a few disclaimers up front, so if you don't vibe with what I'm laying out, you can hit that back button and be free to go about your day.
Disclaimer One: I am an archive reader of Homestuck, and only consider "canon" to be the actual comic from page one up to the Act 7/Credits flashes. Nothing from friendsim, pesterquest, or any of the """Post Canon""" content will be taken into account here. This also includes the "official" quiz that WP finally put up, because I find it lacking in several metrics.
Disclaimer Two: I strongly consider everyone in HS to be an Unreliable Narrator, and I heavily doubt anything that is outright 'told' to the reader by specific characters. My profiles of each aspect and class come from observation of actions. More specifically: I think Calliope's infodumps in Act 6 are interesting theorycraft but nothing more. Meaning…
Disclaimer Three: I don't give much stock to inversion theory, to gendering the classes, to passive/active classes (and outright disagree with some of Calliope's assessments), and frankly to a lot of the sort of Assumed Truths of classpect. Going into this, you can expect to see some ideas that I think go against the popular fanon.
If any of these are dealbreakers for you, then smash that back button and have a lovely day!
Let's get started! How do you explore this project?
My preferred method of figuring out classpect is the self-doxxing method. I have written some pretty thorough (but hopefully not overlong) descriptions of the common traits of each class and aspect. I would recommend starting with the Classes and begin to navigate through and read them.
This project has been pretty thoroughly beta tested at this point, and the common refrain is someone finding something that feels like a person attack. That would be the correct selection for you, the one that makes you feel particularly seen and observed.
Now, personally, I think its extremely hard to test for classpect. I think Aspect is slightly more feasible but Class is impossible. This is because I believe Class should be understood as what role you play in the narrative. When the audience is handed a playbill with the Dramatis Personae, what is the little descriptor next to your name? That is your class.
As such, it's hard for someone else to tell you what it is; it's about your personal journey and how you interact with the world. In the end, the person who is best going to understand what class you are is you. not me.
Aspect is slightly easier to assign from the outside. For that, I am currently working on a quiz for the people who truly have no idea or who just like quizzes. But for the time being, I would suggest figuring out your Class first, then moving onto Aspect. There have been a handful of people who found it easier to work the other way around, though, so don't feel like you're not allowed to look at Aspect if you want.
That's enough from me! Get started!
CLASSES (tagged here)
MAID: "Burdened by the aspect"
SLYPH: "Heals their aspect in others"
WITCH: "Sponsored by their aspect"
PAGE: "Served by their aspect"
KNIGHT: "Guardian of their aspect"
ROGUE: "Distributing their aspect to others"
SEER: "Knowledge of their aspect to serve others"
THIEF: "Steals aspect for self"
MAGE: "Knowledge of their aspect to serve self"
PRINCE: "In service to their aspect"
HEIR: "Avatar of their aspect"
BARD: "The Facilitator of the narrative"
ASPECTS (tagged here)
BLOOD: the aspect of obligation
DOOM: the aspect of inevitability
LIGHT: the aspect of relevance
SPACE: the aspect of the concrete
HOPE: the aspect of imagination
VOID: the aspect of obsession
LIFE: the aspect of affluence
BREATH: the aspect of freedom
RAGE: the aspect of impulse
TIME: the aspect of opportunity
HEART: the aspect of identity
MIND: the aspect of skepticism
Hey, what about Prospit vs Derse?
Sure, that one's easy. I got a quiz for that here.
Where are Muse and Lord?
Nah. I don't think I can extrapolate the similarities of the class from a single example. The games of Sburb seems to only use Muse/Lord in the event of a two player game, as they don't appear naturally in any of the four other sessions we get to look at. So nope.
Hey this is a lot of information and I'm still struggling to decide my class/aspect.
I'll make a post outlining some similarities and delineations to help you out later.
Final Thoughts
This was a metric fuckton of work. I have struggled with a lot of other analyses of classpect, and every time I go to HS wiki and look at their page on in, I see red, because none of it makes sense! None of it has internal logic! This project has been me throwing out everything I've seen on the topic and trying to create something that makes sense.
If you enjoyed it and want to give me a tip, I have a ko-fi over here.
Thanks to everyone who tolerated me working on this project, especially my Whomstve server. If it were for all y'all going "GASP I'VE BEEN DOXXED" and "WHY IS THIS SO ACCURATE" I would've quit.
For the curious, the hardest class to nail down was Prince. Trying to fucking unify Dirk, Eridan, and Kurloz was a nightmare, but I actually am very happy with the final product. Though admitting that shit about myself wasn't fun.
The hardest class to write was, hilariously, Heart, for the same reason. Unifying the experiences of the characters was difficult.
I am a Prince of Heart, but my favorite class is Page. My favorite aspect is Blood.
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