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babybells123 · 1 day

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Game of Thrones S3 EP 7 - Jonsa hints; it's all in the subtext...

Alright so I've been rewatching GOT with my brother, who has never seen it before, and we just recently watched this episode and I noticed a few things upon that watch...

We skipped the episode intro, so I wasn't sure who wrote the episode, but as we know - the good episodes tend to be written by GRRM. You can tell by the dialogue quality, characterisation etc. Up until this point, I thought he'd only written 'The Pointy End' (1X08) 'Blackwater' (2X09), and 'The Lion and the Rose' (4X02). I wasn't aware he'd also written "The Bear and the Maiden Fair' (3X07) until just recently and guys!! The.Jonsa.Hints.

Okay so Jon is present in a couple of scenes: The wildlings open the episode as they are trekking on the south side of the Wall (the previous episode is when they climb the Wall). Jon and Ygritte talk of armies carrying banners and marching drums. There's Jon mentioning the Wildlings will light the biggest fire the North has ever seen to which Ygritte replies "You know nothing Jon Snow." He ponders over that (and we see how those words will later haunt him, even as he is dying *though he associates it with Sansa.*) So GRRM is once again cementing this phrase as significant to Jon. The audience already knows this though, so I'll move on from that.

Jon is then interrupted by Orell the skinchanger (who later claws his eye out). It happens a lot later in the show than it does in the books, and Orell is already dead at this point (killed in ACOK by Jon). But he's presented in this episode as a thorn in Jon's side *because he himself is infatuated with Ygritte.* So there's this idea of a Orell/Jon/Ygritte love triangle, and I'm sure we are aware of GRRM and his affiliation with love triangles and unrequited love by extension ! (If the original outline can be taken into account, and I think it can - since there is a certain love triangle involving Jon + a Stark girl + a vengeful Tyrion) and the show conveys a 'love triangle' between Jon + a red-headed girl blue eyed girl + a vengeful Orell which eventually culminates into a bloody fight b/n Jon and Orell but ahh I digress (and I really don't want/think there will be a love triangle like this in the books since I have no interest in them)...I'm probably reading too much into it anyway since I was planning on only talking about two major pick-ups from this episode. In any case, it is certainly eyebrow raising that GRRM decided to add onto this plot point in not one, but two scenes. (Or maybe it just makes for good TV I don't know.)

ORELL: "People work together when it suits them. They're loyal when it suits them. They love each other when it suits them. And they'll kill each other when it suits them. She knows it, you don't. Which is why you'll never hold onto her."

I though this was an interesting line that reminds me of Maester Aemon's lecture on love and duty. It certainly speaks to Jon's precarious position and his inner conflict regarding Ygritte VS his duty to the Night's Watch.

But Jon doesn't just receive a 'lecture' if you will on love and its dangers (which mirrors that "love is poison" monologue Via Cersei to Sansa). He also receives a lecture on sex.

So on its own, I'm sure this is just a scene added in for comedic reasons, but when you couple it with a scene that occurs *right* after - the parallel conversations jump right out to you.

Tormund gives Jon a sex-ed lesson essentially. And If I remember correctly, this isn't in the books? Though someone can fact check me on this.

TORMUND: "No grace, no skill. A few dozen thrusts and done. You need to be patient, give her time..."

And all the while Jon is listening fairly intently (and good on you Jonny-boy!).

The scene cuts away to Sansa and Margaery talking. Sansa vents to Margaery about being a "stupid little girl with stupid dreams who never learns," and Margaery consoles her. This scene doesn't actually happen in the books; as we know, Sansa learn she is to marry Tyrion on her wedding day and has to be forcefully dragged to the altar. The show is somewhat kinder to her, giving her about two episodes to mull it over. So GRRM certainly jumped on with this opportunity!

A little detail I love is that Margaery plucks a rose and gives it to Sansa:

So for the people who deny Sansa's inherent connection to flowers/roses (and believe me, people do) well uhh... GRRM seems to be very adamant about this detail being so significant it is added in.

It also reminds me of...

"If I could show her Winterfell . . . give her a flower from the glass gardens." (which would involve *plucking* per say) okay I'm running off on a tangent here but Sansa/flower imagery is my favourite genre.

What's most telling to me though, is that Margaery gives Sansa 'advice' for her future wedding to Tyrion. And not just general advice - intimate advice:

SANSA: "My son...with him. I'll have to...we'll have to...."

MARGAERY: "If it's the pain you're worried about.."

SANSA: "I'm not afraid of the pain. Not after what Joffrey's done to me."

.....

MARGAERY: "Some women like tall men. Some like short men. Some like hairy men, some like bald men. Gentle men, rough men, pretty men, pretty girls. Most women don't know what they like until they've tried it. And sadly so many of us get to try so little before we're old and grey. Tyrion may surprise you, from what I've heard he's quite experienced."

SANSA: "And that's a good thing?"

MARGAERY: "It can be. We're very complicated you know pleasing us takes practice."

What does this last line remind you of?

TORMUND: "You need to be patient, give her time..."

So, both Jon and Sansa receive some enlightening lessons about intimacy (and love by extension) from more knowledgeable mentor-like figures in back-to-back scenes? Something that doesn't even happen in the books and has been inserted by GRRM himself?? hmmmmm.

We know GRRM does not write his chapters chronologically, but that he does order them in the way he believes best tells the story. screenwriting is different though, and it certainly seems as if he was intent on highlighting a clear back-to-back parallel with Jon and Sansa in this episode.

Another scene I want to draw your attention to occurs towards the back half of the episode: It's another Jon and Ygritte scene, but the dialogue here reminds me A LOT of that willowy princess line from ADWD.

"A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her." (ADWD Jon XI).

Better people than me have written analysis on that particular excerpt. For one, it's quite a long thought and evokes the very specific image of Sansa. There is also the notion of Jon "deciding" since his wants/desires are all very complicated due to his inadequacy issues and his social position. Essentially, he doesn't believe he deserves this very specific type of woman, so he's completely cancelling them out as a possibility because 'how could a bastard ever attain that?" - wishful thinking essentially. It makes a lot of sense for him to do this, especially when he has previously stated:

"He wanted to ride with Benjen Stark on his rangings, deep into the mysteries of the haunted forest, wanted to fight Mance Rayder's wildlings and ward the realm against the Others, but it was better not to speak of the things you wanted." (AGOT Jon III).

I mean, he feels immense guilt for even fantasising about a domestic life with a lady wife and children. We know through his actions and various quotes that Jon is fond of this type of woman/ attracted to gentler women (he dreams of Ygritte attending him with gentle hands, he's attracted to her smile and singing, but abhorred by her violent tendencies, he idealises his mother as highborn, kind and beautiful etc) and likes to play the protector for people like Sam and Satin. Jon is secretly a soft romantic, he just buries it deep deep inside so that it may never see light. He craves validation and love from this type of woman to the point where he becomes angry when someone insinuates his mother is a commoner. That repression of true desires is similar to how Ned represses Lyanna's secret in his own chapters.

But as Jon states: "I have always wanted it."

I just don't think we should be taking the willowy princess line at face value. If he can supposedly fall in love with dny, even though he has an aversion to the burning of people - how is Sansa so impossible??

Anyway: The scene with Ygritte in question:

What's immediately interesting about this scene is that it involves Ygritte marvelling at the sight of a windmill, and Jon talking about her seeing Winterfell. Which immediately reminded me of this from ASOS:

"In legend, Brandon the Builder had used giants to help raise Winterfell, but Jon did not want to confuse the issue. "Men can build a lot higher than this. In Oldtown there's a tower taller than the Wall."

He could tell she did not believe him. If I could show her Winterfell . . . give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us." (ASOS Jon V).

So this whole scene is clearly an adaption of the above excerpt. We aren't privy to Jon's thoughts in the show, but in the book it is quite literally spelled out for us, and we see how much of a romantic our boy is.

But WAIT. Hang on a minute... did Sansa not just receive a rose from a garden earlier in the episode?

"Give her a flower from the glass gardens..."

Something that does not happen in the books but was added in by GRRM?? And since this Ygritte scene is an adaptation of Jon's Winterfell fantasy.... excuse me whilst I scream into my pillow.

Moving on!

YGRITTE: "Or do you like girls that swoon Jon Snow?"

He doesn't answer her, but looks away smiling a little. He knows she is teasing him (but is there truth to her statement?)

YGRITTE: "Oh a spider! Save me Jon Snow!"

*falls into his arms.*

YGRITTE: "My dress is made from the purest silk from tralalalaleeday."

JON: "I'd like to see you in a silk dress."

YGRITTE: "Would you?"

JON: "So I could tear it off you."

I know this a teasing/flirty sort of scene, but I find it interesting that Jon actually never denies Ygritte. In fact, he says he wants to see her in a silk dress. They're all light and happy in this scene and Jon is clearly basking in this first romance of his though as soon as Ygritte turns the conversation to the approaching invasion he goes back to serious. They argue a little bit then have a passionately angry kiss. This whole exchange is clearly meant to convey the internal conflict Jon experiences with Ygritte. He enjoys the lightness of their romance, but as soon as he is reminded of the danger she brings to the Night's Watch, and his home - Winterfell he realises how grave of a situation this all is with the duty vs love dichotomy.

That consistent struggle is supported by this quote where Jon goes back and forth in his mind about Ygritte:

"Ygritte was much in his thoughts as well. He remembered the smell of her hair, the warmth of her body . . . and the look on her face as she slit the old man's throat. You were wrong to love her, a voice whispered. You were wrong to leave her, a different voice insisted. He wondered if his father had been torn the same way, when he'd left Jon's mother to return to Lady Catelyn. He was pledged to Lady Stark, and I am pledged to the Night's Watch." (ASOS Jon VI)

"How could he explain Ygritte to them? She's warm and smart and funny and she can kiss a man or slit his throat. "She's with Styr, but she's not . . . she's young, only a girl, in truth, wild, but she . . ." She killed an old man for building a fire. His tongue felt thick and clumsy." (ASOS Jon VI).

I certainly believe that is what GRRM was insinuating with that scene!

Has this all been talked about before? Well I'm not actually sure, since I was too young to watch the show when it was airing, and didn't properly join this fandom until recently last year - so if it's been a discussion point in the past, I'm unaware.

Anyway, this was a very disjointed post - but I felt very compelled to write about how GRRM chose to portray Jon and Sansa in this episode - it just screams intention.

#jonsa #jon x sansa #meta #jonsa meta #game of thrones #episode analysis

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ryawinters · 24 hours

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An AU Idea I had

So I have heard from some people that if friendships last more than 7 (or 10 - I forget which), it lasts a lifetime.

The Marauders met on the 1st of September, 1971. While it is difficult to say whether they became friends instantly (like James and Sirius did, but I am not sure about the other two) or not. But it is safe to say that they did cross the 7 year mark right after they left for Hogwarts. (And assuming they became friends instantly, September of 1981 would have been their 10 year anniversary.)

So let's take the wizarding world. The whole friendship for a lifetime thing. Love and friendship are important themes in the Harry Potter saga, so let's take it a bit further. If you have been friends with someone for a certain period of time, you are bound to be their friend for a lifetime. You can choose the number - either 7 (the number with the most magical significance in the series) or 10 (a special number, which feels more significant when specifying the length of time spend together)

With 10:

For the 10 year friendship thing, I figured that they'd have to be friends instantly for their 10 year anniversary to fall before James dies. Now this gives us a period of 2 months - all of September + most of October (or even all). Let us consider 31st October to be the actual date their friendship started (like Harry, Ron and Hermione)

For the 10 year thing, idk I just figured Peter is really content with being friends with them. He still does spy, but he tries not to let his friends be the ones in danger. (The list eventually also includes Lily and Harry.)

Until the prophecy.

Until Harry Potter is Voldemort's newest target, and there is no way Peter can convince James to just hand over Harry. Peter knows, that James would die for Harry, if it came down to it. But it's okay, he figures. They'll go into hiding. He just doesn't have to know where, so Voldemort wouldn't find out either.

Enter Sirius and the brilliant plan.

Exit James and Lily.

Wait, wait, a whole bunch of stuff happens in between.

Peter doesn't want to betray his friends, not really. He doesn't want James, Lily and Harry to be in danger, because he does love them. But he loves living more.

So, when he becomes the Secret Keeper, and Voldemort asks him for the Potters' location, he gives it. Belatedly, he remembers, that their 10 year anniversary is coming up. That it is tomorrow - Halloween. If James dies on Halloween, the 10 year pact wouldn't really have kicked in, per say. Peter would be fine. He hopes.

He prays that James and Lily just let Harry die - atleast they'd survive. But he doesn't dare ask Voldemort that.

Now we're back to the 'Exit James and Lily' part.

But of course, the bond doesn't kick in - not really, not until the 31st of October is over. Somehow, Peter ends up cursed anyway.

Sirius Black confronts Peter on the 1st of November, 1981. Hours after the 10 year anniversary of their friendship. Peter betrays Sirius. Peter blows up the street. Sirius goes to Azkaban. Peter ends up cursed.

James seems to haunt Peter - a ghost only he can see. Keeps haunting him, keeps guilt tripping him, keeps blaming him, and most of all, keeps wanting to be with his son. It drives Peter crazy. He is unable to do anything about it because as far as anyone else is concerned, he is dead. So if he makes a reappearance to get help, he is dead. And he is worried that if he stays like this, he will kill himself.

(Ofc James is not really there. James cannot be forced to spend the rest of his existence haunting Peter. James is wherever dead people are - not with the living. Peter's magic, having bonded with the other 3, seems to be going against him for what he did to them. James is just the only one who could reasonably haunt Peter, so his magic (or head) conjures up images of James.)

(Or it could go a different way. Maybe they become friends on Sirius' birthday. Maybe Peter had James killed and framed Sirius right before their 10 year anniversary so he wouldn't be bound by the promise of a friendship lasting a lifetime (it did last a lifetime for James). Maybe Peter planned out the day. Maybe.)

With 7:

The same story really. Except, in this case Sirius is also haunted by 'James'. Yes, yes, I know Sirius did not betray James. But Sirius thinks he was (atleast partially) responsible for James' death. That guilt is enough to convince his magic that he broke the friendship pact.

The dementors ........................... do not help.

I admit, I got this idea from a Coco fanfiction called The Bedside Ghost by the amazing PengyChan. It is an amazing story and I 100% recommend everyone to check it out.

Anyway idk where I am going with this.

Ugh maybe I will write something like this one day when I have the time.

#harry potter #marauders era #halloween 1981 #peter pettigrew #sirius black #james potter #remus lupin #moony wormtail padfoot and prongs #lily evans potter #voldemort #marauders friendship #au #halloween 1981 marauders au #an idea I had

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jasongraceenthusiast · 20 hours

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hey yall im back on my valgrace shit

this is a music analysis for guilty as sin (ts) because it’s literally them change my mind

“drowning in the blue nile” because everything about jason screams “blue”. he is made of blue skies, and leo is drowning in them.

“this cage was once just fine” leo is trapped in his own emotions. he created a cage so he couldnt get hurt, but now he’s being tortured and there’s no key.

“am i allowed to cry?” leo always pushes his emotions aside. is he allowed to cry over his best friend dying?

“i dream of cracking locks” he is a mechanic, always has been, always will be. maybe his brain works as good as his machines in his dreams.

“throwing my life to the wolves” jason was raised by wolves, and in essence, he is one. leo would sacrifice himself for jason in every lifetime.

“he’s a paradox” because leo will always love him, but doesn’t think jason could ever love him the way leo does. leo doesn’t even know it, but he’s in love. the fact is, jason does love him like that.

“i’m seeing visions, am i bad?” do you think a part of leo saw it coming, jason dying instead of him?

“or mad? or wise?” leo reaches madness one day, jason dying drove him to losing it all.

“what if he’s written ‘mine’ on my upper thigh, only in my mind?” if leo thinks about it, was he imagining it all? the way jason felt about him? leo cared about the guy SO MUCH, but in what way?

“one slip and falling back into the hedge maze” again, leo is starting to lose himself. just as jason did after leo “died”.

“oh what a way to die” but it wasn’t leo’s “death”. no, it was jason dying that killed him.

“i keep recalling things we never did” did leo make it all up? all those nights he spent alone wishing jason was there, would jason still loved him if leo kissed him?

“messy top lip kiss” calypso will kiss him, but leo will thinking about the dead.

“how i long for our trysts” leo does nothing but long to get something back he never had.

“without ever touching his skin, how can i be guilty as sin?” leo never kissed him, he isn’t gay right? he isn’t a sinner?

“i keep these longings locked in lowercase inside a vault” leo has always pushed away everything that was too much. and that’s exactly what he did with jason.

“someone told me there’s no such thing as bad thoughts” but is there? is leo bad for liking jason like this?

“only your actions talk” leo would always say things, but he never acted on them. is he still bad?

“we’ve already done it in my head” leo imagined jason with him, but then would just push it aside. he pushed jason aside, and then jason died.

“if it’s make believe, why does it feel like a vow, we’ll both uphold somehow?” did jason love him? leo will never know, not now that jason’s gone.

“building up like waves, crashing over my grave” leo died, but his feelings didn’t. now that he’s back, and he doesn’t have anyone to talk to, they’re more intense than they have ever been.

“what if i roll the stone away, they’re gonna crucify me anyway” it doesn’t matter what leo does, it matters how he feels. that being, guilty.

“what if the way you hold me, is actually what’s holy?” leo can’t help but be in love. he would stop it if he could.

“if long suffering propriety is what they want from me” leo will suffer for eternity, now that jason’s gone. now that jason is never coming back.

“they don’t know how you’ve haunted me, so stunningly” no one knows how leo feels, how intensely leo pines for something he never had. something he can’t have, especially not now.

“i choose you and me, religiously” leo will always choose jason, even if he doesn’t know it.

#leo valdez #jason grace #valgrace #pjo hoo toa #heroes of olympus #trials of apollo #tbm spoilers #riordanverse #music analysis

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