#if you don't like being fakeclaimed then don't do it to others

[thistledown-moved]

So funny when people make posts like "if you REALLY had [disability here] you wouldn't be ABLE to have a social media account" like god forbid disabled people do anything that isn't lament in total isolation until they are Fixed or until they die.

#thistle--down #disability #tw fakeclaiming #i shan't address the post that originally baited me into posting this because- #30 seconds on their blog was enough to see it was All about the attention for them and i refuse to give it to them. #disabilities do make social media difficult. be it pain or fatigue issues. motor issues. intellectual issues. ptsd and trauma issues. #others that are no doubt slipping my mind right now. #like you aren't going to see the people who aren't able to uae social media on the internet. #you aren't going to know when aomeone takes a step back from social media unless they tell you. #otherwise - all you see is a dead blog. a gap of a few weeks or months perhaps (if they return) #you dont see the systems people have in place to Use social media unless they show you (and you are not entitled to being shown) #social media is a huge part of modern life. diaabled people don't need to avoid it to prove to some fucking creature on the internet #that they are Disabled Enough. #get the Fuck out.

[normal-with-adhd-is-a-joke]

Filming people without their consent is a massive issue of not only privacy but ableism that's been going on for many years.

It started out with filming more visibly disabled people, like high support needs autistic people having meltdowns in public and (especially fat) disabled people literally just using mobility aids, but once that was deemed less acceptable it moved to other things. Filming people acting "weird" in public. Eating weird foods. Falling asleep in weird places. Wearing weird things. Stimming. You get the idea. It's no longer safe to be visibly weird in public and that's an issue for a lot of disabled people. I recently had to lay down on the floor of a department store because I had an ME crash while out shopping. Not only did I have to worry about the normal things like people coming up to ask me if I'm ok, I also had to worry about some video of me at my lowest point, when I'm suffering immensely, being shared around as "haha look at this weird bitch on the floor". It's upsetting. It's scary.

And then there's fakeclaiming. A fun trend where people will film us in public to "prove" there's some kind of huge epidemic of people faking disability. Spoiler alert: there is not. Most of the time the people they film are real disabled people who don't fit into the expected mold for disability, usually service dog teams or people who use mobility aids who don't "look sick". And you would think this trend would be some kind of abled nonsense, but it's not. It's often other disabled people doing the fakeclaiming. Yes, there are some times when it's obvious a service dog isn't trained properly, but other than that, it's damn near impossible to tell if someone is faking a disability, and you're much more likely to target a disabled person than a faker. I'd love to say this trend was new, but it's been going on since the days of "the people of walmart" where many of the people posted were fat mobility aid users, always with the assumption that they used it because they were too fat or lazy to move on their own. In fact, the image of a fat person in a mobility cart has become almost synonymous with "lazy". It's one of the things that drove me to get my own expensive power wheelchair, to avoid the judgmental stares in the grocery store when I was just trying to exist, to avoid the fear of public shame. Even now when I stand up from my chair to walk to the bathroom stall or reach something on a high shelf, I watch the corners of my vision for that telltale phone in the air. I feel like I'm never safe from the judgemental eye of the internet, even when I'm logged off, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels that way.

Tik Tok, YouTube, Instagram, these places are all great for disabled people, especially those of us without access to the outside world. But it's also become a source of great anxiety for anyone who's uncontrollably "weird", mostly disabled people. Leave us alone, I'm begging you, we just want to go to the fucking grocery store in peace and safety.

Tl;dr

Stop filming people for "acting weird" or "faking a disability" in public. It's ableist, it's invasive, it's creepy, and it's humiliating. People don't exist in public for your amusement and especially not disabled people. You don't know who is disabled and who isn't no matter how many disabled people you've known or how sure you are that the person is faking.

#actually disabled #madpunk #cripplepunk #spoonie #chronically ill #ableism tw #been meaning to write this up and the last post I rbed reminded me

[space-station-collective]

friendly reminder to those who need it, because i sure do sometimes:

it's okay for your headmates to be similar! y'all literally share a brain, it would be more surprising if you WEREN'T similar. i have heard a lot of people, including myself, try to fakeclaim themselves (or others, but i'm not gonna get into that here) because "we're too similar, maybe i'm just pretending". you guys share a brain! amnesia barriers or not, you still have the same life under your belt and the same set of experiences more or less (not including exomemories, usually)

i promise you, that isn't a reason to think that you're faking. people who spend a lot of time together, like, i don't know, sharing a brain, often end up being very similar!

just remember, you are valid in your experiences, whatever they may be. you're not alone in this

-the host (he/they)

#plurality #system #spacestationcollective #sysblr #plural #plural system #osddid #plural community #dissociative system #system positivity #host.html

[sophieinwonderland]

An Endogenic Response to a Message Towards Endogenic Systems

Trigger Warning: Death Threats, Harassment, Cyberbullying, Ableism, Slurs, Hate Groups

@loafofcatbread

Aren't you one of the moderators of Aspen's server? You are, right?

You all specifically came onto this website to spread hate. Aspen said she wants to normalize cyberbullying endogenic systems. And you're using our tags to post hateful messages to our community because you want to hurt us. That's your intent in being here. Causing pain and suffering to other people for existing.

Why deny it and try to play victim?

Amazing how you accuse us of sending slurs and death threats while Aspen is calling us "Schizo." Specifically while bragging about using it as a slur.

And... you know we can see your reblogs, right Loaf???

And for death threats... we can also see YOUR LIKES!

Yes! We see you, Loaf! Just like we see Aspen!

We see your hypocrisy. We see your bullying. And we aren't going to tolerate it.

I don't know if any endogenic systems have been sending death threats or slurs in response to you all invading our spaces with the intent of hurting and bullying us. I haven't seen this happening, and I would strongly discourage anyone from stooping to your level.

But I DO know what you all have been doing.

You and your disgusting pals aren't allowed to play victim here! Sorry.

And for your talk of misinformation, I've yet to see anything even resembling a source for the claims your side have made. Anti-endos love to assert thing. They like to say whatever nonsense they can come up with as if it's a fact and then expect people just accept it.

But they can't cite in professionals who can back them up because none exist.

And when pro-endos respond with sources, the modus operandi of you all have been to throw slurs and ad hominems as Aspen did when she was sent a link to my post debunking her video.

Maybe you think you're educated because you got all your information of plurality from a popular Tiktoker with an inflated ego and no actual background in psychology or any sources to support her claims, but that's not education. That's indoctrination.

You and your hive have been indoctrinated.

Finally, over the years, I've seen countless traumagenic systems be attacked, bullied and fakeclaimed for being pro-endo, mixed origin or presenting in ways anti-endos deem unusual. And anti-endos, by their nature, encourage fakeclaiming. They encourage invalidating systems. And this has increased stigma of traumagenic systems, normalizing hate against systems of all types.

You are NOT an ally to traumagenic systems.

You're an ally to a hate group.

And it's so sad that you can't even see it...

#syscourse #pro endogenic #pro endo #sysblr #multiplicity #did system #osdd system #singlet #actuallyplural #plural system #traumagenic system #endogenic system #anti endogenic #anti endo #aspenfrosten #bullying #ableism #hate groups #hate group #(Posting the rebuttal in all the tags Loaf posted in.)

[xxlovelynovaxx]

Listening to Epic the Musical and went to join the discord server, only to find this:

I'd like to preface this by saying I am a member of a DID system that experienced intense childhood trauma. We identify as "mixed origin", meaning in our case we do not believe trauma was the ONLY cause of our system, but we do believe it likely played a part in the formation of our multiplicity. Now, onto talking about this screenshot.

1. Pluralkit's creators are inclusive of nondisordered systems. It's one thing to say "no OCs" (which pluralkit is fine with, but some servers simply aren't for purposes of ACTUAL roleplay and that's fine), but to say "only OSDD/DID systems are allowed to use this" and imply that all other systems are "roleplaying" is just bog-standard anti-endo bigotry. Also, UDD and other lesser-known disordered systems are of course excluded.

A reminder that the creators of the Theory of Structural Dissociation, the DSM-V-TR, the ICD-11, and the APA all recognize the existence of nondisordered systems, and that they haven't met a high enough standard of proof to claim explicit causation via trauma of dissociative disorders. At this juncture, every actual scientist abides by the cardinal rule of statistics - correlation is not causation - and another important basic rule of logic - that "x causes y" does not prove "ONLY x causes y". Or in other words, neither the converse nor inverse of a true statement are automatically true. In mathematics, these logical fallacies are referred to "affirming the consequent" and "fallacy of the inverse".

2. Short of someone actively telling you "I am faking a mental illness", you CANNOT tell if they are. It's not possible even for psychiatric professionals to determine this, let alone random laypeople. Even screenshots "admitting" faking could be photoshopped, but more than that - that rule makes the server unsafe for every SINGLE system, even those with OSDD or DID. On what grounds do they claim a system is faking? Having the audacity to claim that our narrative of our own experiences is most reliable and that we are capable of determining our own origins? Having too many or too few alters? Enjoying aspects of even disordered systemhood? Achieving functional multiplicity?

Fakeclaiming when done to any kind of system, but ESPECIALLY disordered systems, will often severely worsen dissociation and internal communication and can even make amnesia more severe. Even most professionally diagnosed disordered traumagenic systems struggle a lot with doubt, in part due to the very nature of the disorder, which often is a response formed as coping skill for severe trauma which masks itself from both external and internal scrutiny for safety.

It is not worth risking this harm to "protect" systems this doesn't even help, much like it's not worth say, denying SSI to 90 percent of people who need it just to keep the extremely small fraction of a percentage of fraudsters (who are willing to try to live in conditions of extreme poverty without ever being able to marry or save money) from getting it.

(It also seems to stem in part from a pluralmisic society which obscures and erases the very experience of plurality, so that many of us don't discover the labels for our experiences until late enough in life that it shatters a long-held view of ourselves that we then have to contend with as a fundamental shift in our understanding of ourselves. A similar thing occurs with trans people in transphobic societies doubting our transness due to spending our whole lives thinking we were cis, but just in the wrong way, and that everyone is miserable trying to be their assigned gender at birth.)

3. "Alters under age 13 are not permitted to speak in this server as per Discord TOS." Discord's TOS is entirely dependent on legal age and therefore bodily age. Littles and middles are childlike entities in an adult brain and body, and it is therefore up to each system to determine what is safe for their own non-adult members to handle. While some littles and middles may be very like actual children and therefore their systems restrict their activity, some systems have littles and middles that are perfectly capable of using the adult brains' faculties to safely navigate normal interactions. Note that this isn't a restriction on nsfw interaction, which is strictly prohibited in the server iwrc, which while offensive when done "for littles' safety" is at least something reasonable to refuse consent to interact in that capacity with a little for your own personal comfort.

4. "Factive alters sourced from EPIC collaborators are required to speak through an anonymous proxy or base profile when interacting with the server". So, essentially, the comfort of singlets is more important than the health, functionality, and safety of systems. It can be destabilizing to have to mask or pretend to front as someone else.

It is also saying "it's not okay to be openly an entirely separate individual with your own life, consciousness, and experiences, simply because you were unintentionally created by someone's brain based on a different living individual". In this case, the people saying this also believe the only possible reason for this unintentional influence on an alter's existence is due to a severe mental disorder - that they likely believe is only caused by trauma. (They likely consequently believe alters can only be SPLIT through trauma!)

So what they are in effect saying is "if trauma caused a person to exist inside your brain whose formation was influenced by one of us and who therefore shares a name and maybe mannerisms with one of us, they are not allowed to be openly themselves around us". Imagine if an autistic person who often mirrored mannerisms shared a name with them!

5. Re: the last point. They claim that people using pluralkit are people, but notably, they only recognize them as individuals. They do not recognize the personhood of non-parts based systems. "When speaking with someONE who uses pluralkit, remember you are speaking with A real PERSON". Now, they could be referring to the individual alter fronting at the time (and just not acknowledging cofronting out of ignorance or forgetfulness). Except for the damning line:

6. "Please note that Pluralkit is a bot used by INDIVIDUALS with DID/OSDD to facilitate communication". Now, I wanted to touch on, once again, that pluralkit's creators are open to and even intend for the bot to be used by nondisordered systems and even roleplayers. Once again, I have no issue with servers not allowing its use for roleplay purposes, since that doesn't dehumanize any actual systems nor refuse to recognize the personhood of individuals within any systems. But also... they literally are refusing to recognize the existence of actual DID and OSDD systems who identify as multiple people, not individuals!

While it is possible that the creators of Epic the Musical were simply trying to create a safe space for systems and are simply ignorant to the harm that sysmedicalism and creating a culture where fakeclaiming is allowed and even encouraged DOES, I find it more likely that a moderator, creator, or system that is close to one of the above is a sysmedicalist.

Below the cut for brevity of this post is a primer on system discourse (syscourse) and sysmedicalism for those that may not be immersed in the plural community.

Tl;dr of the part above the cut: This server is unsafe for even DID/OSDD systems, discriminates against and violates the autonomy of littles and factives (misunderstanding what littles and factives actually ARE in the process), and does not recognize the actual personhood of alters and headmates and multiplicity of disordered systems. This is just ableism, and extremely disappointing as a DID system that is a fan of the musical.

For those that don't know, sysmedicalists are plurality's version of transmedicalists. They believe that the only way to be many people or parts in one body (which is what plurality is) is to have a severe mental disorder that causes extreme distress and dysfunction, as a result of severe long-term childhood trauma, usually between the arbitrarily named ages of 9 and 12. Like transmedicalists, they believe that multiplicity is inherently a mental illness, and that you can't be plural if you don't experience extreme distress around it.

To be a [identity]medicalist is to pathologize and medicalize an experience that is not inherently either to the point of claiming all nonpathological and nonmedical forms of the experience don't exist, and usually also involves defining an identity primarily by the severe distress it CAN cause in some individuals, staging an arbitrary standard of suffering as a prerequisite that if not met is grounds for fakeclaiming anyone who derives any happiness or positivity of any kind from said identity.

They claim that a term coined and primarily used by trans systems is transphobic, because "transness isn't a mental disorder and systemhood is!" They fail to recognize that like transmedicalists truly believing transness is only a mental disorder incorrectly, they are also clinging to a claim that only the disordered form of a wider experience of being "many in one" is valid or real, and that everyone else are just "fakers" "stealing resources from real trans people/systems".

See iirc @livseses wonderful post for further similarities on transmed and sysmed arguments, which I will link later if I can find.

On the other hand, even psychiatric professionals, in an industry known for disregarding the experiences of neurodivergent and mentally ill people in favor of the narratives that neurotypicals with degrees in the subjects of our lives make up based on their external experiences of us, agree that nondisordered systems can exist. Most now also believe that trauma is not a prerequisite for plurality.

The DSM acknowledges cultural experiences such as mediumship (not all of which are from closed practices), and the ICD goes further to state that the same experience of "two or more distinct personality states" they describe as one of the requirements for DID does not "indicate the presence of a mental disorder". They also use cultural multiplicity as one example, clearly stating that the same experience of multiplicity present in DID can be present in the absence of a disorder.

These disorders are also very purposely not categorized in the "trauma disorder" section of diagnostic manuals, but rather in a section for "dissociative disorders". Even personality disorders, which are well-recognized as being mostly traumagenic in origin, are also not categorized as trauma disorders, for the same reasons of both lacking a high enough standard of proof that trauma is the only possible cause, as well as for the simple reason that dissociative and personality disorders are much more highly self-similar than they are to trauma disorders. Anyone claiming that "DID/OSDD are trauma disorders" and that to claim to the contrary is misinformation is themselves spreading anti-scientific misinformation.

It is also worth noting that by all modern definitions of disorderedness, a mental disorder requires either distress or dysfunction (and in some cases, both). Therefore, a DID or OSDD system that achieved functional multiplicity would not longer be considered functionally disordered.

Traumagenic is the term used to describe systems formed due to trauma. There is zero proof whatsoever that the trauma that forms a system is required to occur in childhood, and in fact seemingly previously healthy war veterans have been acknowledged in medical literature as displaying symptoms of complex dissociative disorders. While there is not a high enough burden of proof to discount the possibility that every single case was just a covert system's presentation made overt by the recurrence of trauma or development of PTSD, there is likewise not proof that trauma that occurs later in life (particularly for neurodivergent individuals with developmental disorders, as the parts of our brain involved in multiplicity often develop in different orders or at different rates.

Endogenic is the term used to describe systems formed for reasons other than trauma (and by most members of the community, for mixed origin systems that were not FULLY formed from trauma. The coiner maintains that full lack of trauma is required for "correct" use of the label; see my previous posts about the harm of prescriptivism and the ludicrousness of defining a term for an identity you don't claim and a community you are not in).

Endogenic does not necessarily mean nondisordered, as anything from trauma occurring after initial system formation to simply the brain's "wires" getting crossed, so to speak, may be able to cause a dissociative disorder even in the absence of the usual stimuli of trauma. Basically, if your brain has a "push in case of emergency" button, there's always a possibility however many failsafes are built to prevent this happening that it will accidentally be set off in the absence of an emergency. Likewise, traumagenic does not inherently mean disordered, as in the case of previously disordered systems who achieved functional multiplicity, or again, weirdness in an extremely complex organ we barely understand causing the brain to push the emergency button but only part of the stuff that is supposed to be caused by the button happening.

Plurality is simply a form of neurodivergence. People can be multiple consciousnesses or "people" (the defining of which falls more under the purview of philosophy than psychiatry) in one body without there needing to be a reason. Assuming singlecy (being a singlet, a nonsystem) is the default is as based in pluralmisia as assuming being straight is the default is based in homophobia.

It's also worth noting that the majority of psychiatry and psychology, as soft sciences, are based entirely in self-reporting. While yes, dissociative disorders can obscure knowledge of trauma until a system is ready to process said trauma, in the absence of any other notable amnesia or other disordered symptoms, it's actually more likely just from a logical standpoint alone that a person is simply right about saying "there are multiple people in this body" than they are unaware of trauma, let alone just "roleplaying" or "faking". There are simply too many endogenic systems for that to be the case.

Why would total amnesia around exactly the chronological bounds of the trauma, despite a system not having any periods of time missing from their memory, be the ONLY symptom experienced? In a society where even if you HAVE a disorder treatment is often inaccesibly expensive and the majority of people regard anyone who identifies as multiple as "insane" at best and "dangerous and needing to be locked up" at worst, what is to be gained from identifying as plural if that's not truly who you feel you are? It's the same tired arguments of nonbinary and nondysphoric/nontransitioning trans people in general just "pretending to be trans for fun". No one does that!

Also, traumatized people are not helpless crazy people that need "help" being paternalistically told what our "actual" experiences are because we're too ill to ever be right about our own lives and ESPECIALLY our subjective internal thoughts, emotions, and ways of experiencing the world and our selves. That's just extremely basic foundational sanism.

Some will claim it's not "for fun" but as a result of delusions or other mental illness that endogenic systems "claim to exist". They claim that delusional and mentally ill people need to be forced into treatment "for our own good", even if the alleged delusions are neither causing distress for us, dysfunction in our lives, or influencing us to act in ways which cause any material or quantifiable harm to others. And no, being offended by the existence of a subgroup of people within a marginalized group is not harm. That's just bog-standard bigotry.

This is also just basic sanism. It's the idea that if someone holds uncommon beliefs or is in any way abnormal, that those beliefs and abnormalities need to be suppressed and stamped out for "our" own good and for the good of society. It's the same (fascist) rhetoric that causes everything from autism [Coolsville sucks] spe/aks seeking a eugenicist "cure" for autism to white supremacy. Note: neither autistic people nor nonwhite people nor any other marginalized group are inherently "abnormal". They are simply minorities LABELED as such by those in power.

I know someone might try to take that line out of context to claim that I AGREE that marginalized peoples are abnormal, coolsville-sucks-style, hence my clarification and inclusion of that in brackets to make any bad faith actors have to at least black it out if they want to screenshot that out of context. That way, anyone bothering to actually fact-check will see immediately that they are twisting my words and acting in bad faith. I've been around the syscourse block long enough to know people WILL do this.

There's further arguments to be made that "normality" is simply a descriptor for things that do not significantly deviate from arbitrary averages and that abnormality itself is therefore morally neutral, but I digress.

I do however, want to encourage people to look into the subject of "mad liberation" for more on questioning and challenging the assumptions that anyone with any mental disorders or trauma is incapable of being a reliable source on their own experiences and existence.

Anyway, plurality has existed for as long as humans have been recognizably human. Many past and present peoples acknowledge forms of it, both in open and closed cultures. Most reputable psychiatrists and psychologists acknowledge the existence of nondisordered and endogenic systems, and further studies are being done into this form of neurodivergence already. The few professionals that don't are typically those like the ones present in the video released by McLean Hospital which fakeclaimed actual professionally-diagnosed disordered systems (which also goes to show just how fakeclaiming only ever ends up harming the people it's claiming to be used to try to protect).

Finally, "plural" is a term coined specifically to be inclusive of all systems, regardless of origin or disordered status. Plural was never a term that belonged only to disordered traumagenic systems, and to claim so is to actively speak over the inclusive systems responsible for coining the term and spread misinformation.

Tl;dr Endogenic and nondisordered systems exist, are valid, and should be believed about the ways they experience their own consciousnesses and brain. This is backed even by doctors in the field of "dismiss people who have abnormal experience of consciousness and supplant their narratives with what neurotypicals THINK is going on based on how we experience the actions of neurodivergent people. Trauma is not the only way to form a system, and intensely distressing mental illness is not the only way to BE a system.

The Epic the Musical server is unsafe for any systems, which as a DID system, makes us feel sad and angry and hurt.

Anti-en/dos, just block us. Even if you can come up with a new argument instead of the same repetitive and inane misinterpretations of scientific literature (or those actively disproven by scientific literature, no less) and pseudoreligious baseless beliefs about plurality, all I would do is tear apart the foundation of the new "argument" for bigoted exclusionism. I've already weighed more evidence than you've ever read, and I won't be convinced that this time the group just trying to live their lives and be accepted as they are is ACTUALLY harmful evil invaders faking and stealing resources because trust you bro. We also know more about our own mixed origins than you as a stranger are capable of ever discerning.

We've been harmed enough by fakeclaiming as a multiply physically disabled and neurodivergent queer traumaendo DID system to ALWAYS side with the people against fakeclaiming anyway, we BELIEVE minorities and especially neurodivergent people about what's going on inside their heads, and quite frankly, we just don't like exclusionist bigots (like you) and don't want exclusionist bigots (like you) interacting with our posts.

#epic the musical #ableism #traumagenic #endogenic #ant//i end//os DNFI #discourse cw #sanism #mad liberation #madpunk #pluralpunk #plural

[voidmire-system]

you may be system n be happy. you may feel good emotions abt your systemhood. you may love your alters. you may be grateful to them. you can feel comfort n support from them being there. you may be system n don't want final fusion. you may consider systemhood as the best way of existing for you. you may be proud of your system. you may love your life as a system. you may recover as a system. being system may be really positive thing for you.

you may be system n dislike it. you may hate it. you may feel bad abt it. you may hate every aspect of systemhood. you may hate that you have alters, dissociation, amnesia, cptsd symptoms, and anything else. you may feel sadness, anger, disappointment from being system. you may desire being singlet. you may want final fusion. you may consider systemhood as the worst way of existing for you. you may be sad, outraged, or frustrated because of your system. you may dislike your life as system. you may recover trying to reach final fusion. being system may be really negative thing for you.

n you may be everywhere in between or outside these positions. you may feel nothing about your system. you may sometimes like n sometimes dislike it. you may like some aspects of being a system n dislike some other aspects. your opinion may change in time (day to day, hour to hour, year to year, n so on). your feelings may be mixed or contradictory. your feelings may vary depending on alters. your feelings may be any.

and it's okay.

it's okay to make jokes abt your systemhood. it's okay to cry n scream because of your systemhood. it's okay to do both. it's okay to feel n think everything abt your own systemhood.

it's okay to share positive things. n it's okay to share negative things. n it's okay to share contradictory things. n it's okay to share neutral things.

your feelings are valid. your desires are valid. your opinion deserves respect.

it's not okay to attribute your emotions n thoughts to others, fakeclaim or spread misinfo.

but abt your system you can think n feel whatever you think n feel.

#did #osdd #did osdd #osddid #actually did #endos dni #anti endo #did system #osdd system #osddid system

[livseses]

Idk, there's something that always bugs us about the statement "endos claiming to have DID/OSDD-1" instead of something like "DID/OSDD-1 systems who are endogenic" or "endogenic systems with DID/OSDD-1".

Okay I lied, I do know. It's the "claim" part. It's always that the hypothetical system is endogenic first and foremost. It's always a given. That goes without question (okay it's definitely questioned but I'll get back to that).

But they only claim to have DID/OSDD-1. When this phrasing is trotted out its never a given that the system has DID/OSDD-1. It's never believed that a system can exist prior to developing a dissociative disorder. Or that a system with a dissociative disorder can discover or recognize how they came to be and not ascribe that to trauma. It implies that the system doesn't have the disorder that they have.

And that framing is really unfair.

Wouldn't it be shitty if we did the same thing elsewhere? If someone said "this adult who claims to be autistic"? Or "this woman who claims to be a lesbian"? Or "this non-binary person who claims to be trans"? Or "this traumagenic system that claims to have DID/OSDD-1"?

We've seen all of those tossed around for the same reason. That last one is said (not in those words of course) by folks I think most of us would generally agree are being shitty. It's said by people who will fakeclaim any system for any reason. It's said by those that will fakeclaim a system for being queer or online. That's really bad company to have.

The usual response we see in defense of endogenic systems is "Most endogenic systems don't claim to have DID/OOSDD-1." Which is true, yes! We can't help but feel like that's talking about this on the fakeclaimer's terms though. We aren't asking folks to change how they respond of course, because we don't really know a better way to reject the accusation.

But those endogenic systems with DID/OSDD-1 aren't simply "claiming" to have DID/OSDD-1 any more than traumagenic systems are "claiming" to. They just have those disorders and are sharing that information about themselves.

While "endos are claiming to have DID/OSDD-1" puts the endogenic part first, implicitly leaving the diagnosis up for questioning, there is a flip side (see, I'm getting back to it).

To compliment the above, fakeclaimers will say that disordered endogenic systems just really don't know about their trauma; essentially that these DID/OSDD-1 systems are just claiming to be endogenic. Of course, we don't see it phrased that way. It's usually trying to be nicer. These poor misguided systems were tricked into thinking that they're endogenic. Or these foolish systems don't really know their origin. Or these crazy systems can't be trusted with their own experiences, cause that's what DID/OSDD-1 does to you.

It's patronizing. It's invalidating. It's disrespectful. It's sanism. It is opposed to disability rights and mad liberation. It speaks over DID/OSDD-1 systems.

These two claims compliment each other. They both feed into the idea that plurality (or at least DID/OSDD-1) can only exist for traumagenic systems. Anyone who disputes that with their lived experiences are either malicious fakers doing some stolen valor shit and invading spaces, or poor "real" systems that are just manipulated/ignorant/crazy.

Huh? That sounds familiar. Reminds me of attacks on trans folk that paint us as dangerous predatory invaders or poor deluded children falling for peer pressure... I would say it's strange or surprising, but we've gotten pretty used to attacks on systems having analogues in transphobia.

Anyways, endogenic systems aren't "claiming" to have DID/OSDD-1. Most endogenic systems don't have DID/OSDD-1, and they never said they do. Some endogenic systems do have DID/OSDD-1, and they share that part of their lives. Some DID/OSDD-1 systems are endogenic, and they have just as much right and ability to determine what caused their system to form and talk about it as any other system.

-Faye

#faye rambles #syscourse #anti endos dni

[anti-endo-haven]

okay maybe it's weird take or this blog is wrong place to put this take but we just wanna give some support & reassurance for some systems.

some system things can & probably would be gross, disturbing, problematic, & so on.

some alters can do harmful things. some alters can look gross. some alters can be scary. some alters can think or do unhealthy things. some alters can hold unhealthy urges, ideas, patterns.

headspaces as a whole or specific places in it can be scary, dangerous, unfriendly.

relationships in system (not necessarily romantic ones, every relationship between alters included) may look weird for strangers but make sense for system. relationships in system may look weird for system members. relationships in system may be unhealthy. relationships in system may look unhealthy for strangers but make sense for system (like it's actually necessary/optimal for this system, but strangers can't understand it because they don't see a whole picture).

trauma is hard & trauma hits hard. it's okay if aftermaths look not so nice & cool.

we think trauma & traumatic disorders are awfully glorified in mass media. trauma survivors are pushed to be innocent, to look like "good victims," to not have any single problematic (actually problematic or problematic-look) thing ever. our trauma aftermaths have to look pretty, or we will be victimblamed, fakeclaimed, demonized. (we still can be victimblamed, fakeclaimed, & demonized if we fit in "good victim" stereotype, but everything that not fit in stereotype will be added or used as excuse to be awful to us).

so we wanna say systems who feel bad because their trauma responses don't look nice: you are valid. trauma isn't supposed to look nice. it's okay if some things look or are actually scary, awful, or unhealthy. you don't have to be ashamed of it. yeah, we all have to try not to harm others & ourselves, but until we make actual harm by actions, we're doing nothing wrong. we don't have to hide our unpleasant sides just because they don't look nice for someone. we don't have to be ashamed by it.

- vm

Also adding onto this…

No matter how badly you’ve hurt people in the past, remind yourself that you were a child (especially if was something forced when you were a child) or even older and just unknowingly doing that same thing.

A lot of people will always think that you need to redeem yourself because you’ve done bad things (such as forced into violence towards other children). And this is also something we struggle with. It’s not for others to tell you to be redeemed or not as you were a child trying to survive.

Redemption means nothing as you were forced into it, redemption is for peace of mind but if someone is trying to force you to “repent,” don’t do it for them. (This is also a huge reason why we just don’t care for redemption, people that know and comment on it just seem to want us to be redeemed so they can feel better rather than us, just because we had to do things as a child doesn’t mean we do that now)

It’s good to heal from being ashamed for things that can cause unpleasantness, but being ashamed forever will never make it better.

#-vm #anti endo #endos dni #did system #system #actually did #osddid #traumagenic system #endos not for you #did plural #actually traumagenic #did plurality #osdd plural #osdd plurality

[fictionkinfessions]

I already said my piece in my reblog of the one gatekeeper anon's ask, and I don't have much to say about documentary anon/Sherlock Holmes' ask either.

We (I and the rest of my system) just don't understand people who did this shit.

What in Hell's name do you get out of it? /rhetorical question

It's confusing, and fucking exhausting. It's already depressing and distressing to see discourse like this about kins and systems (and it really pisses us off to see the two being conflated), and just...

- Vox, fictive (Hazbin Hotel)

~~~~~~ (switched mid-ask, oop)

In-fighting like this only destroys communities. It doesn't build them up. I'm sick of seeing people who are supposed to care about each other, and comfort and protect each other instead tear each other apart over what?! Amusement!? Inability and/or unwillingness to understand mental health?!! How does this gatekeeping and bashing and fakeclaiming help anyone?! I don't understand it!!

- Morningstar (Charlie Morningstar fictive, Hazbin Hotel)

x

#fictionkinfessions #ask response #mod party cat #hazbinhotelfictive #ableism cw #gatekeeping cw

[interstellarsystem]

The whole McLean Hospital situation has made us very upset and angry, and we weren't even any of the ones included in the videos.

For those who don't know, the McLean Hospital posted a video (that has now been taken down due to backlash presumably) titled "Social Media and the Rise of Self Diagnosing Dissociative Identity Disorder" that claimed certain systems on tiktok as examples of fake systems, without contacting them at all or asking permission to use their videos. The systems in question allegedly didn't have their usernames censored in the video either, to make matters worse. We haven't actually seen the video as we were late to getting to it, so we can't go into more detail than that.

But anyway.

Fakeclaiming systems over the internet when you can't possibly know if someone has DID or not is already bad enough, but now medical professionals are doing it? People who should know that you can't just know personal information like that without speaking to a person about their experiences. People who should know that people's diagnostic history is private information and you can't possibly guess what disorders a person has just by watching a few tiktoks they posted.

So I'm going to take this opportunity to say a few things.

Systems living their lives and being public about being a system does not make them a fake system. Systems being happy despite the difficulties their system may or may not cause does not make them a fake system. Systems being on tiktok does not make them a fake system. Systems advocating for themselves does not make them a fake system.

You can't tell who is or isn't a fake system just by what they post online, unless they outright say they're faking. You can't tell if a system is faking in general unless they say so. System experiences are so varied and different from each other that a lot of the time, no two systems are the same or function similarly. A lot of systems also don't always fit into clean-cut boxes and that does not make them fake.

Fakeclaiming sucks and hurts real systems more than it'd ever hurt the fakers.

#plural #actuallyplural #plural system #plurality #alterhuman #syscourse #op #draco (he/him) #fakeclaiming #fakeclaiming cw #everything althu #everything plural #althu info #plural info #ask to tag #medical

[orange-orchard-system]

I cannot take the reasons behind fakeclaiming and being assholes to anyone accused of being a faker seriously. "But what if someone is faking DID?!" If someone is so desperate for connection and attention (and friendly reminder that because we are social creatures, these are basic needs) that they think an inauthentic position in a community they're going to have to repeatedly lie to is going to give them that... I'd rather they seek out those needs they have here, in an "average person probably has some idea on how to handle the trauma and other problems a lack of proper connection and attention can give a person" community, than any "let's go make fun of people to make us feel better about ourselves" community. I do not think this is a big problem. Any misinformation or misconception a faker could perpetuate by faking is no worse than the shit I've seen doctors and actual people with DID perpetuate.

Besides, most of the fakers I've seen (which is like. Two out of the hundreds, maybe thousands of systems I've met in passing online) haven't actually done anything. They just post shit about their fake system until they decide to quit and admit to their lies. A lot of fearmongering about "what fake systems will do to the community" doesn't actually happen nearly as often as people think it does. And I'm not sure I trust a lot of this "they'll spread misinfo" worry, considering some people think it's "misinfo" to say you can get DID from trauma other than physical and sexual abuse.

"But what if you support a faker?!" Fakers probably need that support. They probably need someone to acknowledge they're not wrong for needing attention, even if I would prefer an ideal world where they don't have to resort to lying to get it. It's really not a big deal at the end of the day. I have other problems than worrying about than if someone is faking DID. Like how best to manage my own DID. May all those faking DID or anything else find the community and attention they need without having to lie and hide their true selves.

#front soup.txt #did #fakeclaiming mention

[impunkster-syndrome]

I keep seeing this from people exiting the radqueer community, so I want to address it:

Some of the things that the radqueer community supports are not harmful in of themself or inherently radqueer beliefs or stances. It's easy to go from one extreme to the other in an attempt to course correct, which is something I am seeing happen very often.

Things that are not inherently radqueer:

- Support of endogenic systems (There's actually a very long history of endogenic systems being included in the plural community, even before the DID diagnosis was recognized. The earliest online plural communities included soulbonders, spiritual systems, and more, then disordered systems broke off into their own communities and infighting started.)

- Destigmatization of paraphilias and encouragement of recovery for those who need/want it (Pro paraphilia is not the same as being pro-contact). This includes kinks and fetishes that may make you uncomfortable like ABDL, CGL/MDLB/DDLG, etc.

- Having a complicated relationship with fiction due to trauma or other life experiences

- Transspecies and other alterhuman identities

- Having a complicated relationship with age due to trauma, disability, or being alterhuman in some way

- Educated self-diagnosis, recognizing flaws in the medical system and having to fight for a professional diagnosis of a condition

- Acknowledging that minors have sexualities that develop and that minors do need proper sex education to stay safe.

- BIID

Things that are inherently radqueer:

- Transplural, transDID, and other ways to "transition" to be plural that treat plurality with less weight than needed due to things like system responsibility, how seriously creating a thoughtform should be taken, etc

- Treating everything as if it is as fluid as queerness, or applying queer stances to non-queer parts of identity such as race, disability, paraphilias, species, etc that are not as fluid (Transid in general)

- Lack of respect for closed or semi-open cultures, practices, and communities based on the idea of being a part of that in a past life or some other reason. I put transrace/trace under this category

- Being pro-contact, radpara, or pro-complex/consensual contact for paraphilias that can cause harm to others or oneself if unsafely interacted with

- Believing children can consent and deserve to have sexual spaces that can be open to adults. This includes anything like "minors in kink," saying that minors should make and profit off of sexual content of themselves, or encouraging children to interact with adults or each other in a sexual way

- Romanticising disabilities and seeing them a desirable to have, and not the reality of ableism that people with those conditions experience. Attempting to gain disabilities out of envy of those who have them, or trying to gain a disability that you do not have and relying on stereotypes to "pass." Not listening to people who do have the conditions about the ableism they contribute to

If you're getting out of the radqueer space, you need to make sure to keep out of discourse that does not involve you (i.e. being anti/pro endo as a singlet, since there is already a massive problem with fakeclaiming and singlets using professionally diagnosed systems as a shield to allow themselves to have a space in our community and fakeclaim systems). Trying to course correct from one stance by going to the opposite stance without actually looking into it or if you can/should even get involved in the first place is harmful.

The best thing to do would be to take your time, since radqueer is one extreme and the other extreme is reactionary and based around a need to police others based on personal discomfort. Don't try to deconstruct it all immediately, but when you feel ready you can. The radqueer stance hijacks other movements to try to legitimize itself, since those other movements are more accepted than its own.

#anti radqueer

[space-station-collective]

Befriending A System - Info

What will this post be about? - This post is going to contain basics on common courtesy when interacting with a system. The information and text in this post will primarily be directed at singlets, but if you are a system looking for information feel free to use this as well!

Warnings - This post briefly discusses how traumagenic systems form and instances of ableism. Please be mindful

My friend just told me they're a system. What does that mean?

If this question applies to you, there may be a lot of emotions you're feeling, including fear, curiosity, frustration, and many others. All of these emotions are valid, learning something this big about someone can be very emotion-heavy! At the very basics, what it means to "be a system" is there are multiple people sharing one brain and body. You may have interacted with several of them without knowing, or only the host, or another option entirely. Either way, you now have information that you need to be mindful of.

Why it can be so scary to tell someone you're a system

If you don't already know what it means to be a system, you may not understand why it's such a difficult thing to bring up. Why can't these people just be open about who they are? One of the most common types of system is "traumagenic", meaning they have likely undergone severe and/or repetitive trauma to create the system they now exist as. This is a very, very sensitive topic for many people, and telling someone that you have trauma can be terrifying. Many systems also experience ableism, from things like fakeclaiming (implying or saying you believe someone is faking being a system) to outright violence. It becomes necessary at a point to be good at hiding your system, and letting down that mask is a big deal for many systems.

Common questions and what to do about them

Questions about people's trauma: Don't. Just don't ask. You may be curious, but it isn't within your right to know the details of what someone has gone through, no matter how close a friend they may be. If you learn someone's trauma, be gentle, and let them share at their own pace. Don't force them to open up any more than they want to.

Questions about headmates: This one depends on the system. Many systems are completely comfortable talking about their headmates, but many are not. The best course of action with questions about headmates is to simply ask the person how they feel about these kind of questions, and act accordingly.

Questions about triggers: Knowing triggers that you should be mindful of can be very helpful information to have, but keep in mind not everyone will feel comfortable sharing those. If you ask and your friend says no, do not press the matter. It should go without saying that if you do learn someone's triggers, never use them against the person, be respectful.

Questions about the system or person's experience: This is another question that depends on the individual. Your best bet is to simply ask your friend what kind of questions they're comfortable with, and move forward according to what they say.

How relationships may work with headmates

This experience can vary greatly between systems, so it is almost impossible to find an info post that is 100% accurate unless it is made by the person in question. You may have questions, and it may feel awkward or uncomfortable when you meet a new headmate for the first time, but please remember they likely are feeling the same way. Don't treat them like they're unusual or something to be scared of, just be a normal person about it. Treat them with the same respect you'd treat anyone. Relationships (platonic, romantic, queerplatonic and otherwise) can vary greatly between you and individual headmates, and it's important to remember different boundaries that people may have. It's possible to become romantically involved with one or several headmates in a system, but not everyone, and in this situation boundaries are incredibly important. Overall, it's best to go in with an open mind, and just ask questions. The worst you can be told is "no".

What is a "trigger" in a system context?

Beyond the traditional meaning of a trigger that you may know, there are some additional meanings or types of triggers you should be aware of when it comes to systems.

Front Triggers: Front triggers can be either positive or negative. Essentially, this just refers to something (a song, a person, a word, a topic, etc.) that is more likely to pull specific headmates towards the front. Some individuals may educate you on certain members' front triggers, but this is not a go-ahead to use them whenever. Speak to the individual about when it may be appropriate to do so, but generally it is considered in poor taste to attempt to use this information without explicit permission.

How to approach boundaries

Boundaries are very much a case-by-case basis. The most important thing is to maintain healthy and open communication. Remember, you're allowed to set boundaries too. It can be stressful, learning these things, and if you need to take it slow or step back at any point for your own well-being you aren't in the wrong for doing so. It's incredibly important to make sure you're taking care of your own wellbeing first, because even if you want to be the best support you can, you won't be supporting anyone if you can't support yourself. The best thing to do is just ask. Open a conversation about boundaries, what are things both of you can do to make each other more comfortable with the relationship? Communication can be hard, but so so worth it.

I think someone I know is a system: What do I do?

A good rule of thumb: Don't say anything. Usually, if someone hasn't said anything, they either aren't ready to share the information with you or they don't know themselves. For both of these cases, there's reasons why it's usually bad to bring it up as an outside point of view. If the person hasn't told you yet, they likely have a good reason. This isn't to say you're a bad person, or that you've made them uncomfortable, sometimes people just aren't ready to share something like that. If you ask them and this is the case, it puts them in a very, very awkward situation, where they have to choose between telling the truth and opening up about something they've likely had no time to prepare to do, or outright lying to you.

For the other case, in which the person doesn't know, it can be very harmful to call attention to it if you aren't a part of their medical or mental health care team. Systems are frequently covert for a reason, in many cases it is not safe for them to be aware of it if they aren't already, and if they become aware of the system earlier than they're "supposed" to, it can create more difficulties.

There are exceptions to these, however. If this individual is displaying actions, signs, or symptoms that are directly harmful to you, the individual, or others, it may become necessary to make them aware of it. If this happens, please do so gently. If the person is unintentionally harming others, they don't realize it and likely don't mean to be doing so. Be gentle when you make them aware of it, don't go in slinging accusations or assumptions. Talk to them like a human.

End of post thoughts:

The best thing to do in this situation is just be kind and respectful. Don't "other" your friend for this, and just be a normal human about it. Most people will not get upset with you for asking questions out of genuine curiosity, as long as you're respectful about it. As always, this information can be a good starting point but is, by no means, a rulebook. Situations change and are different for everyone, so just ask questions and use this information as you see fit. Thank you for reading!

#stationcoll info #osdd #did system #dissociative system #sysblr #osddid #plurality #plural system #plural community #system info #long post #system #traumagenic #osdd system #did osdd #dissociative identity disorder

[sophieinwonderland]

Decided to do a little vent.

Honestly i hate how big of a deal fakers are for sysmeds, like i don't think they really exist?..

Like... No? Like, they're litterally not??

It's like fakeclaiming depression, autism, adhd, etc. Esp for young people and minors. and generally, pretty "childlike" escapists who are into cartoons and etc and not oversharing photos and irl life. People really assume that people who spend a lot of time on fiction really can't ever dissociate and don't want to escape reality... Somehow. Idk ableism aimed at young people is so unreal i hate it, because they're actually MOST vulnerable to all abuse, but get dismissed SO MUCH by everyone just because they don't share all shit happening to them.

I saw this soooo much for depression like "oh these kids are just faking and romanticize it blah blah" when they're litterally coping and express feelings through art... In a healthy way? Never understood it.

Ocdd isn't really so funny and normal, even accomodations aren't so great, to fake it, being system isn't instant +1000 followers as they think. If person wanted to roleplay - they may just make roleplay account. And like?.. Like fictives can't be into various roleplays and interacting more as original, because it's familiar for them, and safe in a way? We litterally have singlets in roleplaying community who are like "i actually always play characters that are litterally me because i can't really play as very different person", why fictives can't be like that too, and enjoy it? Just because some fictives don't, and now this is a standart for all?.. Roleplaying is quite badass healthy coping mechanism that helps to improve empathy and understanding of others.

Communications only become harder for singlet if they try to pass as disordered system, and it... Doesn't pay off??? At all??? Like????? The fakeclaimer's paranoia litterally doesn't do any good for any system, only make systems feel worse and ruminating about how their trauma must not be enough, imagined, and alters are just imaginery... They're formed to help, and you litterally may hurt systems by saying shit about them being imaginary, just as you may hurt adhd/depressive person by saying that they're just lazy and need to get over them, without any help, and medication are just placebo.

And faking real, horrifying disorder symptoms, actually takes A LOT of research and acting talant and skill, i would actually APPLAUSE to person who would play disordered system good and dedicate hard work to it. I would love to see actors and authors who are interested in research and can play various system characters, and conciously remember how memory in systems works, and don't get lost in it, and use meta-knowlegde for alters who don't have it. It may be easier to lose track when system live in one body, esp masking as singlet.

Solid take.

Really, the whole hysteria around fakers is largely overblown. The idea of mass amounts of fakers have always been a scapegoat used by ableist doctors to dismiss people with DID, but numbers have never supported this, and much of what people claim are signs of faking are just normal human variation.

#syscourse #vent #pro endo #pro endogenic #multiplicity #systems #sysblr

[antiendovents]

being a system is so fucking hard.

last night the main host discovered the subsystem I'm apart of. it took him awhile for him to even realize and xe is trying to come to terms with it. (We present like one alter, in a headspace of that alter, Wren, who all consider ourselves as Wren. that's why it took him so long)

endos and transplurals will never know what it's like to think you know everything till you find a whole ass subsystem. they'll never know what it's like to actually have a dissociative disorder so they have to keep faking it.

tired of it. tired of the endo fakeclaimers because if there was someone who was like "I have Couchgenic CPTSD, it comes from the warmth of couches UwU ✨️🌺🌸🥺🥺" no one would take that shit seriously but when it's OSDD/DID its suddenly considered okay even though the example is about the same exact fuckin thing.

and to top it all off the body feels like shit. gotta make sure no one does dumb shit because of this.

-wren (citrus + wren/host front) and kyan

sorry for the whole ass English essay 😭

yeah. Endos will never know what having DID/OSDD is actually like. They won't know the suffering, nor the pain. They won't know the good or the bad because they don't have the disorder. ((Not talking about endos who are just in denial of their trauma. Talking about the ones that actually do not have DID/OSDD and are just claiming to have it))

There's a lot of hypocrisy too, where if it was any other trauma disorder then everyone would hate endos, but when it comes to DID/OSDD they just don't care. It's fucking stupid and I hate it.

Endos are the same as trans-ID people, you cannot change my mind.

((And don't worry about sending a long ask, I like it))

#anti endo #actually did #did #did system #plural #endos dni #alters #system #endos fuck off #did osdd

[anonymousfield]

i think fakeclaimers forget that one reason plurals are so open about their plurality is because they actually can be. When others are accepting of being plural its a big relief! We are aware many people think being plural means "you are crazy." I have to make sure our parents don't find out we are plural for the fear of them thinking we "have lost our mind." Sadly a lot of people just aren't educated on plurality and do still just know it from horror movies. So when we encounter safe spaces where we can be ourself, fuck yeah we are going to talk about it! "They make it their whole personality" they say. Well first of all if you had other people in your brain you'd realize it's kinda hard NOT to talk about it. Also, like i said before, a lot of us can't talk about it outside our safe spaces because of fear of unsafety.

its almost like you need to express yourself sometimes after hiding for so long

#actually plural #plural #plurality