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itsclydebitches · 3 years

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RWBY Recaps: Volume 8 “Ultimatum”

Welcome back, everyone! We had an unexpected break last week due to the horror going on in Texas. I'm glad we did. Not because of any salty "RWBY is bad right now yay free Saturday" feelings, but because keeping to a schedule for a fictional webseries should never take precedence over peoples' safety. I can't believe I need to type that sentence out, but it's true! Over the last seven days I've seen fans who are not merely disappointed by the mini hiatus (understandable) but outright hostile towards the crew because they... were ensuring everyone survived during an unprecedented emergency? Yeah. Given the highly critical nature of these recaps — including today's! — I want to be clear that my thoughts towards Rooster Teeth's creative choices are distinct from any thoughts about the crew itself, including the most basic forms of compassion like, “I sure hope everyone is okay over there.” In an age where it has become horrifically common to harass creators and even send them death threats over stories, it has likewise become necessary to remind people: Don't do that shit. Never do that shit. If I can teach anyone anything at all, let it be that!

Anyway, dark fandom reminders out of the way, let's dive straight into our delayed episode. It was certainly a doozy. Titled "Ultimatum," we open on a trigger warning for flashing lights. Good on Rooster Teeth for including that, though I do wonder if creators shouldn't be including time stamps as well? Or perhaps a note that you can find those time stamps in the credits, avoiding any (minor) spoilers for everyone else? I'm not photosensitive myself, so I certainly don't mean to speak for that group, but my first thought was, "So how would I watch this episode if I was? Hand on the pause button, hoping I stop fast enough as soon as the lights start?" Hard to do given the surprise nature of the scene. Really, my answer would be, "Wait for the fandom to post warnings of their own, likely including where it happens so I know when to skip" which is perhaps an indication that this information that should be included from the get-go.

But I am glad the warning exists, regardless. The episode itself begins with a shot of Ironwood looking down at the kingdom. He's used his windows as a vantage point since Volume 7, so that's nothing new, but something about this particular shot reminded me of Ozpin, looking down from his tower. I'm sure the response from many would be simply, "Ah yes, the two power hungry dictators watching over their victims," but I think there's a much more nuanced reading here about leaders being expected to fix the literally unfixable and what that responsibility does to an individual. Of course, it's a nuance that is absolutely obliterated by the episode’s end, but the implication existed for a hot second!

Two other soldiers are in the room with Ironwood, reporting that Cinder has helped Watts escape. They try to soften this with news that they still have Jacques in custody, but receive only a, "I don't give a damn about Jacques Schnee." Which, fair. He's pretty useless at this point. It's when Ironwood learns that both Qrow and Robin escaped too that he really gets mad, something his subordinates have been expecting given their scared expressions.

Now, I'm treading lightly here because I realize how this is going to sound given the end of our episode, but I still want to note that outside of that ending... this is a weird take? Just hear me out. Since Volume 7 the show has worked very hard to make Ironwood seem scary and unstable — bad setup for what we end with today — but the problem is that none of it works in context and it certainly doesn't work when compared to other characters' actions. They are literally in the midst of an unwinnable battle and thousands of his people are dying. If the audience wants a human being — who also just lost a limb and was betrayed by half his allies — o remain perfectly poised and polite during that, sorry, but that's not how human beings work. But even beyond this, what’s the message here? Ironwood raises his voice, so does Yang. Ironwood hits his desk, Qrow hits a child. If we're going to examine how Ironwood handles his stress and anger, he often handles it better than many of our heroes. Namely, by continually taking that anger out on inanimate objects. I kept waiting for him to attack his subordinates or attack Winter this episode, especially given where we end up, but it never came. Ironwood always has enough control to break the desk or punch the wall, not the person in front of him. Which, of course, would not be a good thing in the real world. I want to be clear given these sensitive subjects that if someone is breaking things in your presence that's a major problem to address. But this isn't the real world. This is a fantasy world in the middle of a war, populated by other characters who express their anger by punching people, slamming them into walls, or screaming at them until they run away. The story wants us to fear Ironwood long before he makes his objectively horrific choices and it tries to achieve that by showing us characters who are clearly terrified in his presence, by giving us a string of broken objects in his wake. But those details don't land well when we compare them to other instances of stress. In the same volume I have watched Ironwood take a deep breath to calm himself down when things have gone horribly wrong. I've also watched Weiss start a conversation by threatening her defenseless brother. So again, what’s the message here? It can’t be that acting violently towards someone = villainous behavior because, as established since Volume 6, that’s common for the heroes. Why are these subordinates terrified about Ironwood slamming his fist on a table, but Whitley has no problem hugging the woman who threatened him? Obviously there is a HUGE difference between our main group and Ironwood when it comes to other actions (cough-bomb threats-cough), but these day-to-day moments don't match up. The show wants to use violence as a way for us to easily identify the Bad Guy while ignoring all the times when our heroes do the same thing.

All of which isn't meant to be a defense of Ironwood. As we'll see in a bit, there is no defense for what he's done. Rather, it's a way of acknowledging just how badly he's been written. Why does a man who consistently reins in his anger and takes it out on objects suddenly shoot a councilman for literally no reason? Why does a man defined by wanting to save as many people as he can suddenly threaten to bomb his city? Ironwood's characterization is all over the place, in the sense that they keep writing him as the morally gray, sometimes harsh, but ultimately compassionate man he started out as... up until they need a villain. Salem isn't here yet, so Ironwood can shoot Oscar. Salem isn't attacking yet, so Ironwood can shoot the councilman. Salem is currently reforming, so Ironwood can threaten YJR and Mantle. He's the B-plot villain whenever Salem is out of commission, which is a problem for both their characterizations. This filler doesn't make sense for Ironwood and it severely undermines the threat of Salem. You finally introduce the Magical Big Bad and our heroes are facing more of a threat from a guy with a broken army and three loyal allies left? Hmmm.

The tl;dr is that Ironwood's arc is a disaster and, frankly, it's gotten old reading simplified takes of, "It's just a realistic look at what white U.S. men will do in power sweetie :) " RWBY does not have the context capable of conveying that sort of critical take because our world is not besieged by literal monsters and an immortal witch, to say nothing of how real life good guys do not get deus ex machina canes that fix the problem instantaneously. Ironwood is not an example of anti-U.S. imperialism, he's an example of writers who don't know how to write.

Anyway, I'm getting severely off topic. Obviously Ironwood is a major part of this episode, but the problems demonstrated here are two years in the making. This is the culmination of things I've been discussing for months across hundreds of posts... so I should probably stop trying to summarize it all in a few paragraphs lol. Perhaps when RWBY is over — or Ironwood has died — I'll do a single meta on his character, try to pull everything into one, unified argument.

For now though, we have an episode to analyze.

While Ironwood is receiving this news we get flashbacks to Qrow and Robyn. Qrow attacks a soldier in his bird form, which is hilarious. Someone GIF that please. It does raise some interesting questions about this magic though: does Qrow retain his aura and strength in this form (something I thought given his choice to transform during the explosion), or was that soldier just so shocked at being attacked by a crow that he went down easy? We'll never know, because that would require establishing concrete rules for this world. The point is Qrow is going feral in his freedom, throwing punches left and right — did he kill that guard? — while Robyn watches it all from under a rock. They're apparently still somewhere in the facility since all the exits are guarded, but that's not the good thing Ironwood seems to think it is. After all, Qrow is out to murder him. He wants to be there.

We all see where this is going, right? The show is going to ignore Qrow's crazy belief that Ironwood got Clover killed in favor of a "Qrow saved Mantle by murdering Ironwood"/“Qrow got revenge for Mantle by murdering Ironwood” ending. Who cares why Qrow wanted to kill him in the first place now that Ironwood has his finger on the trigger? If RWBY is good at anything, it's writing moments that encourage you to ignore everything that came before it. We'll be seeing more of that in just a bit.

"Damn it!" Ironwood yells, because the show is leaning into its cursing. He orders that the subordinates not return until "you have Qrow Branwen in custody." Here we have another great example of the show conflating what the audience knows with what other characters know. See, we know Qrow has a vendetta against Ironwood. We know their relationship is the important one to the story and that Robyn is incidental. Ironwood doesn't know that. There's no reason for him, as a character, to specify that they only bring Qrow back, but it makes sense for the audience who has the whole, thematic picture. Our understanding of the situation is influencing Ironwood's dialogue, which is... not great.

This entire scene we've had creepy music to hammer home just how evil Ironwood is. Except, as said, he takes a breath to calm down and the music fades. Instead of flying into a rage, hurting someone, or doing anything the music suggests he might, Ironwood calmly calls in for an update — which is when the explosion hits.

It's MASSIVE, seeming to originate from a lightning strike, which is weird, since it's coming from inside the whale, but whatever. The animation is very dramatic and pretty, as we've come to expect of RWBY, but the actual plot is lackluster at best. It's funny though because I thought for a hot second, when Winter and the Ace Ops were caught in the blast, that RWBY had actually done something exciting. I mean, holy shit! There are the deaths we expect from a battle like this. My god, what is everyone going to do when they realize that Oscar's needless attack took out five characters, including Weiss' sister —

No wait, never mind. They're fine.

Let's talk about that "needless" descriptor for a moment though. Do you all remember, two weeks ago, when I went, "Hey, why isn't anyone telling Oscar that that Ace Ops are approaching with a bomb? They're on a time limit! If someone would just mention that Very Important Information then Oscar wouldn't keep standing around to fight Salem." See, at the time I was frustrated because of how the plot was needlessly allowing Oscar to put himself in danger (especially when the whole point of this mission was to rescue him). Now, I'm frustrated because that same plot needlessly wasted the most powerful weapon the group had. There was no reason for Oscar to use literal lifetimes worth of stored energy when the heroes already had a bomb to do the same job! What was the point of that? I guess he took out the other grimm too, but without the whale that still would have been a challenge with a finite end, one Ironwood's army and the remaining huntsmen should have been able to handle. It doesn't feel justified to have Oscar use a weapon kept on the bench for lifetimes when there was another option literally minutes away.

There's so much wrong with this I need another list. So:

Ozpin's cane supposedly stores kinetic energy, which may contradict what we've seen from it before. Regardless, we’ve never heard about this. The all powerful weapon comes out of nowhere

It also begs the question of why Ozpin wouldn't use that power at Beacon and why he wouldn't insist that they try to get their cane back while captured. You had an out this whole time! But we’re going to ignore that because Oscar is a little hesitant?

Which makes YJR's presence even more useless than it originally was, which was already pretty useless. Oscar essentially rescued himself

This kinetic energy miraculously doesn't hurt any people or buildings, just grimm

So what is the point of Silver Eyes? That's been their MO since they were first introduced. Sure, Silver Eyes can be used far more often than Ozpin's cane, but it still feels like a let down to learn that the Big Secret behind this weapon is... the exact same thing Ruby has been doing for years

Like Ruby, Oscar likewise didn't need any practice or training. He just set off this massive attack perfectly and without issue

We have now eliminated the biggest threat to the cast instantaneously — the whale and the other grimm — with no effort from the rest of the heroes. Like the Hound, the stakes are obliterated with no satisfying work on the part of our protagonists

Instead, as said, the actual plan already in place never happened. The bomb just... goes back. Kind of like how Cinder attacked and then just went back to Salem. Penny woke up and then just got knocked out again. We continue to go in circles

This is because no one took two seconds to tell Oscar, "There's a bomb on the way"

Because this threat is gone the show needs a new one, hence Ironwood randomly threatening Mantle with said bomb

The one way we might have justified Oscar blowing up the whale instead of Winter is if he did it to save Hazel, but Hazel is implied to be dead

Maybe he's alive, but if he's not that happened off screen and we're not sure how. It couldn't have been because of the blast itself — everyone else is fine — so what, Salem somehow killed him before she was blasted to bits? While he was holding her?

And there's no body?

Salem was torn apart multiple times during that fight and reformed instantaneously, yet now, conveniently, she's taking her time

None of the characters mention the issues above. None of them admit that there was no reason for Oscar to waste LIFETIMES worth of power when they already had a solution in the works. Fantastic

I need to take a moment to acknowledge that so far this recap feels... bad. Disjointed. Bit all over the place. Which makes a certain amount of sense because that's where my thoughts are at. There's so much going on in this episode — so much wrong with it — that I don't know how to boil it all down into a few, neat claims. This episode is a mess! We're barely a few minutes in and the combined issues of Ironwood's characterization and Oscar's choice have left me reeling. So if you're still reading this, bless your patience, I think we'll both need it for the rest of this journey.

Let's snag a neater plot-point to discuss. Amidst all the chaos Neo literally skips away with the Lamp, clearly thrilled at how her own life is going. Later in the episode she'll text Cinder with the obvious: Salem is going to be pretty pissed when she realizes this is gone. “If you want her name you know what you owe me."

So wait... what is Neo leveraging here? Is she agreeing to give the Lamp back so Cinder doesn't get in trouble with Salem? Give Salem the password she's been looking for? Or give Cinder the password to use the Lamp for herself? What would Cinder even want the Lamp for when she's after the Maiden powers? I'm confused about what Cinder is being blackmailed with. Regardless, she needs the lamp for something and presumably what she "owes" Neo is Ruby. We get a cut to her just to hammer that home.

(Side note: both pictures of Neo are hilarious.)

Before that though, back at the whale, everyone is taking stock of the situation when Marrow cries, "Hey, they were still in there!" I feel like this is another scene meant to make him look like the one good guy in the group — he cares about YJOR while the others can’t be bothered — but as always, that reading doesn't fit well with the situation as a whole. The others have barely had time to realize they're alive. I don't think it's a moral failing that they didn't instinctually worry about four betrayers, one of whom attacked them, while they're still checking that they have all their limbs intact. Besides, why does Marrow assume they're dead? The Ace Ops were caught in the blast as well, yet miraculously came out unharmed. They clearly didn't set their own bomb off, so it's logical to assume that YJOR did something themselves. It feels weird to have a "Marrow mourns them and Winter is the only other character who cares" moment when everyone is recovering from bomb shock and no one even knows if the others are dead. But, of course, the show is out to portray only two of these characters as good people, so ignore the logic and run with the emotion of the scene.

All of which is bolstered by Elm pulling away when Vine puts a hand on her shoulder. Why is she acting cold towards him now? Because they're not friends, remember?

While we get more ridiculous relationship dynamics, Ironwood calls in and congratulates them on the bomb working, but tells them to get back because they have another problem in the works. That would be Qrow and Robyn. Winter decides to tell him about the bomb in person.

We cut to Watts and Cinder watching the remnants of the blast from a rooftop. Cinder has tried calling, but no one answered. Unsurprising, given that Salem doesn't have any other allies left. Cinder says that the plan hasn't changed, she's still going to take the Winter Maiden's power for herself, and Watts can help her by bringing Penny here. He explains that he doesn't have full control over her. Rather, he implemented a virus that is setting her on a single path: open the vault, then self-destruct. Cinder, as one might expect, is furious.

She snags Watts by her grimm arm and threatens to toss him over the side of the building. Thus begins the best part of the episode, hands down. Despite the danger he's in, Watts throws common sense out the window in favor of dragging Cinder in the most satisfying manner possible.

“You think you’re entitled to everything just because you suffered, but suffering isn’t enough. You can’t just be strong, you have to be smart. You can’t just be deserving, you have to be worthy! But all you have ever been is a bloody migraine!”

It's true! You know what else is true? This speech could apply to our heroes as well. Accusations of entitlement and reminders to be smart as opposed to just strong hit hard, considering those are the same flaws our protagonists are struggling with. The difference is that Cinder, miraculously, listens, pulling Watts back to safety and going to cry by herself. That moment is simultaneously more growth than Ruby has gotten and more sympathy than Ironwood has gotten. The woman who murdered Pyrrha is treated more kindly by the narrative than one of our initial heroes and our very first villain has taken more time to reconsider her choices than our title character. You know a show is falling apart when excellent choices are applied to the worst possible character.

So Cinder is crying while Watts looks guilty and we cut back to YJOR's group post-blast. Yang is finally able to answer a call from Blake who is obviously overjoyed to see her. Weiss gives them directions to the mansion and they ask what in the world they'll do with Emerald, currently on her knees, mourning Hazel.

Thus begins the third most frustrating part of this episode. See, on the way back the group continues the conversation about what to do with Emerald, with Yang and Jaune distrusting her vs. Ren and Oscar encouraging cooperation. I can't believe I'm saying this after's Ren's speech and Oscar's entire existence... but I'm team Jaune and Yang here. Look, what Oscar and Ren say — the literal words coming out of their mouth — is nonsense. Ren goes, “We can’t let all of our actions stem from fear," as if Yang and Jaune are being ridiculous for mistrusting Emerald, one of the established villains, after years worth of harm from her. It’s weird that Yang points to her arm as something Emerald is responsible for, rather than being framed or the deaths at Beacon, but the general sentiment of, “She’s done horrible things!” is true. Ren’s perspective is the same simplification that was applied to Ironwood last volume, wherein everyone acted as if he was crazy for fearing an attack on his kingdom... post an attack on another kingdom and pre an attack on his kingdom. Putting generic lines in Ren's mouth about not being afraid makes him sound willfully ignorant, as if choosing to believe that someone is good will magically make them so, to say nothing of thinking it will erase all the harm they've already done.

Oscar at least acknowledges the difficulty here, but then follows this up with, “You don’t have to forgive her… just give her a second chance."

Oscar, honey, that amounts to the same thing in this situation. Allowing Emerald a second chance means working with her, which means trust, which means emotionally reaching a point where these characters can put aside the harm she's done them in an effort to give her that chance in the first place. This actually ties into a post I saw last night, one I've come across before, that claims redemption arcs don't require any suffering on the part of the person who has done wrong. I agree in theory, that prolonged suffering doesn't help anyone, but the problem is that people tend to conflate suffering with consequences and someone who has done this level of harm should face consequences for their actions. The problem with redemption arcs is not that the bad people suffer too much — emotionally and physically beating on them as a form of revenge — but that the people they've harmed are put into situations like this one. If Yang and Jaune let Emerald go like she suggests, they are agreeing that she doesn't have to face any consequences for the damage she's done (which, keep in mind, involves multiple deaths, not including all the lost lives here in Atlas). If they agree to give her a second chance, they are forced to jump straight to some level of forgiveness. We might claim they don't have to forgive Emerald to work with her, but from a practical perspective how are they meant to function, especially during a warzone? Anything she provides them with — information, watching their back in a fight, undertaking missions, etc. — requires trusting her enough to allow those things to happen: working with that info, letting her protect them, allowing her that responsibility. It's all about trust, trust she has yet to earn. In order for a redemption arc to be successful, the power has to be in the hands of the victims. They need to be able to see some justice for what was done to them, be offered some proof that the person in question has truly changed, and have the ability to walk away if they decide no, I don't forgive you, glad to hear you've improved, but please stay out of my life. Jaune and Yang have none of that. There are currently no systems in place for Emerald to face consequences for her choices, she has offered them no proof of her remorse or true motivations, and the other half of the group is pressuring them to give her that second chance without closure or reassurance. None of that makes for a good redemption arc and reducing that to, "So you want to see poor Emerald suffer, huh?" ignores the suffering she has already caused. The group are her victims and they are under no obligation to give her a second chance, particularly under these circumstances, which makes the story's choice to have Ren and Oscar act like Yang and Jaune are being stubborn or inconsiderate a problem. The conversation boils down to, "Give the woman you know to be a liar, manipulator, murder accomplice, and servant of our enemy a second chance based entirely on unfounded faith. If you don't you're letting yourself be ruled by fear."

RWBY's touchy-feely themes really don't sit well within its realistic, morally gray premise. We cannot continually have these characters go through hell one moment and then have others accuse them of being paranoid the next. The fact that all of this is wrapped up in the group trusting Robyn, Emerald, and Hazel over their established allies remains beyond frustrating.

Because yeah, you know how Oscar finishes his speech? “I’ve already gotten a lot of help today from someone I don’t exactly trust right now." Meaning Ozpin.

The story is trying to compare Emerald and Hazel to Ozpin.

"Oh hey, I kept a secret from you after lifetimes of watching that secret lead to betrayal and death. I keep apologizing for my mistakes while ignoring that I had no reason to trust a bunch of kids with such world-shattering information and also that you tore it from me in the most traumatic way possible."

"Oh hey, I willingly joined our world's version of the devil and helped her destroy your school, leading to numerous deaths including your friend and headmaster. It was his death that put Oscar in this position in the first place! I then continued to attack your group, leading to another near death of a friend, and a kidnapping, and the destruction of Amity, until I became scared enough to make a run for it."

Which one of these characters is granted an instant second chance? You'll never guess who!

And I do think the word "instant" is important here because just like Jaune and Yang have the right to have distance and justice from Emerald, they had that right with Ozpin too. The difference is they got it. They had the power in the situation, as evidenced by their use of the Lamp and physically attacking him. Ozpin heard what they needed from him — leave us alone — and did that without complaint. They were given months to come to terms with the secrets he kept. They were offered apologies and acts of service to demonstrate intent: saving them in the airship and continually saving Oscar. I don't believe Ozpin ever needed a redemption arc, but even if we think he did, he had it. After three volumes of material Oscar's perspective is still "I don't exactly trust [him] right now" but Hazel and Emerald have earned at least the same amount of trust in a matter of hours? They're really having my boy look at the guy who has tried desperately to do right by him despite unimaginable circumstances, and the guy who tortured him to get information for Salem, and went, "That first guy. He's the one we need to watch out for."

To make things even worse, Oscar tells the others that Ozpin took on all the torture so he wouldn't have to. So he did that and they still don't trust him? If you had told me back in Volume 6 that two years later the group would still be hostile towards Ozpin, while simultaneously urging one another to trust Emerald, I would have said you were lying. RWBY has its problems, but it's not that bad. Yet here we are. I suppose the one silver lining here is that Ren smiles when he realizes Ozpin is back? So at least one of them isn't prepared to draw their weapon at the mere mention of his name.

Both these moments raise more questions though. How in the world did Ozpin take on that torture when we clearly saw Oscar getting pummeled for a good portion of the kidnapping? Is that a weird merge thing the story hasn't bothered to explain? I wouldn't be surprised, considering Oscar said last episode he didn't want to use magic because it hastened the merge, he uses the biggest explosion of magic we've ever seen, and nothing has changed. Ozpin is still in the back of his head, thanking him for the tinniest shreds of decency they get. Ren, meanwhile, seems to be back to mindreading. How in the world does he know that Ozpin is back? I assume it has something to do with his semblance, but we don't know what. They could have shown us Oscar from Ren's perspective, perhaps with two distinct emotions swilling around to imply that he sees two different people now, not a useless shot of Emerald with purple flower petals, whatever purple means.

Oh, but no, we shouldn't have gotten either of these scenes. Remember that Ren's aura broke a very, very short time ago? Is it back already? Can he use this part of his semblance without it? Considering it was near impossible to see Ironwood's aura breaking in the Watts fight and we were then mistakenly told he used his semblance in the office, I'm going to go with, "The writers forgot."

Oscar explains that the cane had "lifetime after lifetime" of power in it and though there's still some left, "we have to be careful with how we use the rest." He says that Ozpin trusted his judgement and of course he did! Ozpin also didn’t know that there was a bomb on the way. Yet funnily enough, no one else mentions that, whoops, your choice made in ignorance was a waste and that's due entirely to us prioritizing hugs over basic mission information.

Also, all these explanations take place in front of Emerald. Half the group doesn't trust her, but they'll freely discuss their powers and limitations here. Remember how the group once wanted to talk about magical relics in front of the old lady they'd just met? Yeah, they've learned nothing.

Combine all this insanity with the fact that Ozpin's magic saved the day before Ironwood's bomb could do the same... while Ruby sat in a mansion drinking tea. Who's our hero again?

So things are a hot mess, to put it lightly. Their conversation finally ends when they hear voices and round the corner to find all the Atlas citizens huddled in the subway. For once the show actually writes them in a sympathetic manner, emphasizing how terrified and helpless they are. This image doesn't lead the group to any revelations though, certainly not anything that would tie back to Ren's earlier speech in the snow. No, once again the justified criticisms here are ignored as we hear that “However this fight ends, we could really use someone like you, [Emerald.]” That's it then. Discussion over. We knew as soon as it started that blindly trusting her was being presented as the "right" thing to do and now here we are, deciding that conclusively, despite Jaune and Yang's complaints. By the time the group reaches the mansion, Oscar is defending Emerald from Ruby. We're supposed to just accept that she's a part of the group now, only minimal pushback allowed.

Before that though we return to Ironwood getting news that their bomb never went off. He briefly wonders who else could have done that, but puts the currently unanswerable question aside for what he does know. They still have the bomb and it could be "useful." See, this moment — like shooting Oscar and the councilman — is when Ironwood just randomly goes off the deep end. One minute he's talking about what they've lost and cradling his new arm,

the next he's saying that he should have tortured Qrow to get Penny to obey him! Which doesn't even make sense since I'm pretty sure Penny hasn't ever spoken to Qrow. She wouldn't want anyone to suffer, true, but it's not like Ironwood had a close friend like Ruby to use as leverage. Qrow is just Some Guy to her. Regardless, he thinks Yang, Jaune, and Ren are decent replacements, despite Penny also having no relationships with them. This is what happens when your characters only start breaking up their teams eight years into the story, the response to Ironwood wanting to torture Ren to hurt Penny is, “Does Penny know Ren exists?” But, you know, torture is torture, right? Maybe. Probably not. I mean, if they're going to turn Ironwood into a cartoon villain, they could at least keep him smart.

Because all of this is just the height of stupidity. Ironwood wants to torture people Penny barely knows to make her listen (so just grab some civilians? It would do the same job...). Ironwood wants to shoot down empty ships, even though no one, including us, knows where in the world those ships would have gone. Ironwood wants to destroy an entire city to try and save another city. He wants to use a bomb meant for a comparatively small whale and acts like that alone will take out the majority of a kingdom. None of it makes sense! And I know the easy comeback for that is, "Well yeah, Ironwood is crazy and evil" but he's not. I mean he is. Threatening torture and bombings is obviously evil, but he's never been insane, or stupid. As said before, his arc (or lack thereof) is an absolute disaster. The fandom assumes so many things about Ironwood given the opportunity — the whale is a suicide mission. He expects the Ace Ops to die on his order — and the writing hints at so many things that never happen — he's going to hurt his subordinates, attack Winter for disobeying him — and every time what we actually get is a far more compassionate, level-headed character... until he randomly does a 180 and goes, "Let's murder a whole city now!" I never wanted Ironwood to be the bad guy, but they could have at least given me a persuasive decent into this level of horror.

So... yeah. Ironwood has got to die by the end of the volume, yeah? Between Ruby warning the whole world about him and him going into full villain mode, there's no coming back from this.

Neo sends her text to Cinder and the group makes it back to the mansion. Remember Yang's criticisms of Ruby's leadership? The ones she conveniently forgot about when Ren started to agree with her? Yeah, those are entirely gone as the sisters hug it out and, presumably, forgive one another for... daring to admit that things are bad? Look, I'm not going to deny that Ironwood's scene with Winter was creepy as fuck,

but I'm not of the opinion that the heroes are any better when it comes to the theme of obedience. They've attacked one another, screamed at one another, and any dissent from Ruby's leadership results in the questioner being left behind in the snow. We'll accept you again when you fall back in line. I used to adore the relationships in this show, but watching them now is just discomforting. The show might be 100% more obvious with Ironwood, using creepy music, a smile, and that hand on Winter's shoulder, but the concept of, "Sorry I dared to question you before! We won't ever do it again :)" isn't healthy either. The fact that the show keeps erasing theses problems with hugs — Weiss hugs Whitley now, Yang hugs Ruby, someone will probably hug Emerald soon — doesn't make the circumstances any less uncomfortable.

None of this even gets into the Blake and Yang hug. First of all, why is Blake acting like they had a fight and Yang might not want to see her? She's hiding inside rather than rushing to greet them, ears down in a devastated expression until Yang touches her. Combine this with Yang's "Do you think she's mad at me?" and it feels like the writers cut a fight in the final script and then didn't bother to remove the fallout from that. Seriously, where did any of this come from? You can't just have characters act like they've been fighting when they haven’t.

Also, can't forget this.

At this point there's nothing more I can say in regards to RWBY's almost-queer baiting. Is touching foreheads more intimate than the hugs Yang gave the others? Absolutely. Is that an appropriate stand-in for overt representation? Absolutely not. This would have been a perfect time for them to kiss. Take out Blake's nonsensical fear and replace it with them both reuniting after their first separation since Volume 5, working under the knowledge that either one could have been killed, finally admitting their feelings. Hell, they don't actually have to kiss. Not all girlfriends are interested in kissing! But they could use the terminology that makes things unequivocally canon. Another forehead touch when we got that in Volume 6? It's not enough, especially not when our straight couples have all been allowed their rep.

Ren at least wants to know where Nora is. He's presumably told what happened off screen as Oscar tells Ruby that Emerald is their friend now.

Then an emergency call from May interrupts the reunion and the group learns that Ironwood is bombing the Schnee ships. “Those ships… they were going to save people” Weiss whispers. How? Tell me how they were going to save anyone. Where were you going to take these people where they would be safer than where they are now? RWBY continually asserts things without explaining them, meaning there is precisely zero emotional weight here. Again, Ironwood is far past the point of defense, but I'd be a whole lot more critical of this particular action if I had a better sense of why it's bad. He appears to be endangering the people given May's shout to run — falling debris? — but the further implication is that Ironwood has doomed the people of Mantle by denying them these ships. It's that part that makes no sense based on what we've been told.

Which finally comes to the ultimatum of our episode title: Penny opens the vault, or Ironwood bombs Mantle. Great! So glad this plan is wicked smart and works well for his characterization. It's definitely not a nonsensical, unfounded, overblown change that feels like it belongs in a child's cartoon, complete with dramatic spotlight. Nope. Excellent writing choices all around.

Our final line of the episode is, “I hope you live up to the title I gave you," referring to Penny's job as the Protector of Mantle, and you know what? That line could have been very cool if it was delivered by an Ironwood with a persuasive fall and a halfway decent plan in place. I love that we've twisted the concept of a protector and turned the title into a horrifying, rather than honorable responsibility... I just hate everything surrounding those details.

So, usual RWBY fare.

(At least we get to see that Nora is awake!)

Will things get better over the next four episodes? I doubt it. We're still expecting the rest of the Ace Ops + Winter to ditch Ironwood, someone getting the vault open, the fall of Atlas, now the potential destruction of Mantle, and none of that includes Salem who should reform at any moment. Frankly, I'm not looking forward to any of it. The final leg of a season should make its audience excited to see how everything turns out, not dreading it. I've heard from multiple people that this is the volume that finally got them to drop the show and honestly? I'm not surprised.

As a final (happier?) note: we've finally got a bingo! I completely forgot our board last time, which was a terrible oversight, but we can update it now.

Our army of grimm can't kill anyone now that it got KOed by Oscar (that is the third one hit defeat of a major enemy we've seen this volume. Yes, I'm including the Hound considering it was obviously on its last legs after Ruby's eyes.)

I'm likewise including "Ozpin apologizes for everything including his existence" because he's done nothing but apologize since he came back. The emotion is there even if the literal words are not. Oscar reminded everyone of how untrustworthy he is, but kept the group from jumping them again. And Ozpin thanked him for it.

Neo didn't literally backstab Cinder (shame), but the Relic still counts.

So a triple bingo! Is that how bingo works? Idk, I've never played. I feel like I should have thought up some sort of humorous prize, but sadly I've got nothing. If you think of anything, let me know lol

That’s all then, folks. Until next week! 💜

#rwby #rwby spoilers #rwby volume 8 #rwby ultimatum #rwby recaps #mymetas

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due-processs · 2 years

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me & rwby

So, you’ve stumbled across my blog. You might be asking yourself why this blog exists and what I’m doing here. This post is meant to give some answers, and a bit of my history with rwby and its fandom. (scroll to the bottom for a tl;dr)

I first started watching Rooster Teeth and the various channels within it when I was probably too young to be doing so. But, being the middle schooler I was, I thought the gaming stuff was cool and I liked Red vs Blue.

Inevitably, I ended up watching RWBY, which was nearing the end of its second volume (around late 2014). I would say that I was hooked immediately, but that’s not true. Even back then I had a hard time getting past the... interesting animation and voice acting. It took me two tries, but I did end up getting extremely invested in RWBY. I binged what was available, and once they were released, I asked for the dvds for Christmas. I even got a few of my irl friends into the show.

RWBY ended up becoming my first fandom. I had a now long-gone tumblr blog and a slew of various characters I shipped and even wrote a little fic for (never published, though). I wasn’t really invested in the adult characters or what they had going on, I just wanted to get back to the prom, y’know?

Then volume three came out, and it was really good! I enjoyed it a lot. It felt like RWBY could only get better from there! And then it just... didn’t? I will say I actually did enjoy volume four at the time, but not as I liked volume three. I still think it has some good moments, but it didn’t follow with the quality three had left us with.

When volume five was premiering in early 2017, though, my interest gradually started to decline. I was still watching RWBY and RT stuff, but it wasn’t holding my interest like it used to. By the time six was coming out, I had also become disillusioned with RT as a company after a series of scandals (think the crunch stuff, sketchy advertisements, etc). I slowly woke up from that parasocial nightmare over the course of a few months and stopped watching most of their stuff. I still held on to RWBY for volume six, but I would miss episodes and have to watch a bunch to catch up.

Once volume six was done, I didn’t continue watching RWBY. Honestly, if you had asked me then what volume six was about, I could not have told you.

But, due-processs, you may ask, how the fuck did you then end up creating an Ironwood blog literally years later, especially when you did not care at all about him the first time around? That’s a really good question. a few things happened in my time away from RWBY.

1) I grew up. I’m able to actually think critically about the media i consume now, lmao. Whether that means actually being critical, or just analyzing things on a deeper level.

2) i developed a very specific type when it comes to the characters i like and get low-key obsessed with. That type is as follows: kind of a hard-ass, stern, but also obviously with a heart of gold/soft side. Bonus points if they have awkward parental energy or just are kind of awkward in general. More bonus points if there’s an element of them being morally gray. So you can see where this is going..........

I don’t remember how I become curious as to what was going on in RWBY these days, honestly. I checked in on RT as a whole when the Ryan Haywood is a sexual predator situation came to light, but it wasn’t then. Maybe I just thought of it randomly, or perhaps I saw hbomberguy’s RWBY video in my recommended. Either way, I decided to check up on the fandom. And I quickly learned that it had split itself between critics/RWDE/HTDM and anti-critics. Always the sign of a healthy fandom to be sure lol.

I read through a lot of different posts and started to get far more interested in the RWDE side of things. RWDE posts tended to be a bit more deep (at least, in my opinion). Like, rwde posters and critics tend to really think about and analyze the show, and that’s what interests me. Thinking about where RWBY went wrong and what it could have been is extremely interesting. Generally, though not always, I agree with what a lot of rwde posters have to say (from what I know of the show).

One of the big complaints I saw was that Ironwood was really interesting and good in volume seven, but they ended up making him a mustache-twirling villain in volume eight and trashing his character. I remember thinking that I hadn’t really cared about Ironwood my first go-around, but I wanted to see what the fuss was about. So, I found clips of him in volume seven.

I was blown away by a few things. First, his model was vastly improved compared to volumes 4/5. His face looks nice in V4/5, but his torso is so bad in that. But in the later volumes? Not only is that fixed, but they gave him a really nice beard and outfit. Not to mention he’s so tall and quite large. He’s like... easily the sexiest male character - to me, at least. Second, and more importantly, his characterization in volume seven was directly on the nose for that type I mentioned earlier. He’s a hard-assed military leader, but he is also extremely soft. I also began to revisit and appreciate his scenes from V1-6 a lot more. This fictional cartoon man really is the perfect storm to gain my interest.

And then, of course, I turned to watch the volume eight clips with dismay. It was just as everyone had said. Not only had his character done practically a complete 180, but they ended up villainizing him in the most shitty, ableist ways they possibly could have managed.

(I will say, I think if they’d gone for just Antagonist Ironwood, that would have been good. He doesn’t have to be right all the time or perfect for me to like him. In fact, I really like the angle of him being morally gray but still trying his best ultimately. They could have done literally anything other than “Ironwood is 100% evil now for shitty reasons” and I would’ve been fine with that. A little annoyed, perhaps, but fine.)

So, I started dwelling on this character quite a bit, as I’m prone to with characters like him. I’ve decided that I think it would be fun to actually interact with other Ironwood fans and maybe do some fanworks. I also have the occasional rwde thought I’d like to toss in there, too. I will say I’m going to try to avoid the fandom at large. Interacting there just does not sound fun lmao.

And there it is. My history with RWBY and what this blog is for. I don’t know why I decided to write a long ass post, but there it is. Honestly, it’s more for me to get my thoughts out than for anyone to actually read. But thanks if you did read!!

TL;DR

I watched RWBY from about 2014 to 2017/18 (volume six). Initially, I didn’t care about the adult characters at all. I stopped watching RWBY and RT stuff as I became disillusioned with the company after some scandals (e.g. the crunch stuff) and as my tastes/interests changed. From 2018 to now, I developed a love of hard-ass characters that are also secretly soft. I got curious about RWBY again recently and learned about James Ironwood’s arc throughout V7. Not only does he perfectly fit the type of character I really like, but he’s also super hot. V8 ruined him in shitty ways, but I still like who he was in V2-7 and what he could have been. This blog is to interact with other Ironwood fans and maybe do some fanworks and rwde discussions. Thanks for reading!

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crimeronan · 4 years

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Can you explain the appeal of Julian Blackthorn? This is a genuine question because I read the books and came away utterly bored by him and unconvinced of his moral greyness as opposed to like, Adam Parrish’s. He seemed so one dimensional to me but I want to know if I’m Wrong TM considering I tend to be very very biased toward my favourite characters and bored by the rest, and my favourites were Mark and Kieran. So maybe I just didn’t pay him enough attention??

it’s been a while since i wrote any earnest tsc meta but cringe culture is dead and the chance to infodump about my julian thoughts has me vibrating where i’m sitting so. yes okay.

technical stuff

(aka: things pertaining to How The Story Is Constructed)

cassandra clare’s characterization has become much stronger just in general since she first began writing the series like twenty years ago

perhaps most importantly: the more recent stuff i’ve read from her has involved characters who actually grow, change, and learn from their past mistakes

rather than repeating the same stupid decisions over and over again

and over and over and over some more

seriously take a shot every time someone in tmi miscommunicates or self-destructs in ways They Have Learned Not To Do for no real reason. u will die of alcohol poisoning

in tda this shines ESPECIALLY with the evolution of mark, kieran, and cristina’s relationship, but that’s a separate post

clare’s trademark is also the angsty traumatized jerkass love interest with a secret heart of gold

the woman is almost singlehandedly responsible for draco in leather pants and the proliferation of this kind of character type in fandom and teen lit. this isn’t a criticism it’s me marveling at how if you commit hard enough to a single trope you truly can change the world. follow your dreams

sad jackass with a heart of gold isn’t an Inherently Problematic Character Type

but poorly done it can lead to relationship dynamics in which one partner is constantly being hurt by and then forgiving the other despite them making no real effort to change, because they are narratively absolved due to being sad

(there’s a lot of this with earlier jace content. in some ways i think will was later created specifically to be a same-archetype protagonist who actually does get called on his shit and grow. that’s also another post)

also if all of your sexy male love interests are tortured jackasses with a heart of gold then people start calling you a one-trick pony

enter julian blackthorn!

from the very start everything about him is designed to be the INVERSE of the heart of gold jackass. which immediately makes him interesting just from a meta perspective

(mark and kieran are also both alternate angles on this time-honored archetype. mark gets the heart of gold and kieran gets the jackass and then they’re both much more deeply messy than that. yet another post)

julian is kind, self-sacrificing, empathetic, artistic, emotionally supportive, responsible, and favored by old grannies everywhere

so a completely nonthreatening milquetoast guy, right

immediately forgettable if you’re only here for the dramatic conflicts and shithead antics of clare’s other protags

except that he is A Mess

and that he has structured his priorities very carefully, and they are as selfless as you expect from The Hero (TM) but they are also Not Heroic (TM) and they do not align with the moral framework The Hero (TM) is supposed to use

moral ambiguity in characters always exists in relation to their narratives imo. you mention adam parrish - trc’s narrative already mucks around in different ethical shades of gray, and adam falls on the canon scale about where julian does on his canon scale. both more willing than the average pov character to do the ruthless thing or make the fucked-up choice if the ends justify the means; both with an intensely strong sense of internal priorities that they adhere to at all costs, both so unbelievably fucking down for murder; etc

i do think there are ways julian’s choices could have been pushed even further, but considering the number of readers who hate his guts already, i can see why clare opted not to go for the most controversial possible conflicts

so we’re flipping the narrative

instead of seeing this angsty bad boy and peeling back the layers of his trauma to find his heart of gold, we’re seeing the put-together selfless family man and peeling back the layers of his Responsibility Mask to expose the rotting husk underneath

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

THAT IS FUN AS FUCK

then when julian DOES lash out in hurtful, uncontrolled ways, he has significantly more narrative justification for it than most of clare’s protagonists (will elaborate in characterization thoughts)

julian is also interesting as fuck because of how his struggles allow for a more in-depth look at the failings of shadowhunter society, something that’s also sorely lacking in clare’s earlier work

his apparent amorality is simply the result of him making pragmatic and impossible choices because he has been faced with fucked-up ethical dilemmas since age 12 Because Society Has Failed Him

which opens the door for narrative exploration of how and why he’s been failed so badly & what needs to change

i also love that he has such a coldly calculated way of analyzing situations and allowing harm to occur when need be, bc a lot of clare’s early protagonists have such a bad case of Rush In And Get Myself Killed Because I’ve Got Feelings About Impulsive Heroism syndrome that i wanna push them in front of a truck

probably there’s other meta narrative stuff i could say but i’m stopping myself and moving on to character analysis

characterization stuff

(aka: reasons why i’m also attached to him in a vacuum)

i don’t read him as one-dimensional at all tbh

u may feel the narrative pushes “ruthless julian blackthorn” too much without delivering enough actual ruthless julian But i don’t think that’s the same as having only one dimension

from the get-go, the big question centered on julian is always “how far are you willing to go?” and the narrative pushes the stakes slowly higher and higher to continuously test julian’s “the price is always justified” mindset

he has a far more layered and realistic response to trauma than clare’s early protagonists - trauma affects every single aspect of his personality and how he conducts himself, and the effects vary depending on the circumstances

his conviction that he has to be the perfect parent to his siblings because they will fall apart if they see him show weakness?? rooted in how he feels like he’s fallen apart since losing the stable adult support he once relied upon

his willingness to hurt semi-innocent people, commit coldblooded murder, manipulate people using political leverage, allow harm to befall any stranger if it protects his family?? rooted in how he has already had to ask himself how much he’s willing to sacrifice, and how his family is his only source of stability when the world has never done Shit for him

his conviction that he has a darker heart than anyone else because he killed his possessed father, even though intellectually he knows he was saving his brother’s life?? rooted in having no means of processing this trauma and being unable to voice his feelings for fear of backlash from a deeply non-understanding society

the way he represses every single negative emotion he ever has, to the point where emma - his actual literal magic soulmate who can feel his emotions - is startled to find him hurting or angry?? once again all about how he has to be the perfect father or he’s failed completely

the way his anger is so totally disproportionate to different situations and the way his negative emotions can only come out in completely uncontrolled breaks?? all that repression baybey. this kid has not processed a single bad feeling in five years. every single real grievance and petty annoyance has been festering indefinitely inside him like a slowly spreading infection

julian’s arc involves him needing to get thru being his worst self to actually start to heal

as in, he has to actually learn to acknowledge his feelings, take care of himself, lean on his family, and let other people take some responsibility

he also has to learn that in his quest to be the perfect emotionally controlled authority figure, he has not actually learned how to control or deal with his emotions. like. At Fucking All. good god

the narrative setup is also about asking “how far are you willing to go?” until the answer is finally “not this far. not this far”

and once he reaches that point, he has to reevaluate everything about how he weighs his priorities and morals and plans, etc

(i also like that emma has a perpendicular arc in which she’s always the one tempering julian and telling him “no we can’t go that far” until she’s willing to do something horrific that he absolutely won’t and HE has to stop HER. very sexy)

it’s also just really nice to have a character who’s learned to relate so well to literally every single member of his family while still having a very detached ruthless interior consciousness. i have similar feelings about how adam teaches himself to love people, but with julian it’s spelled out more explicitly in canon & it’s a more central character theme

i’m sure i’m also forgetting stuff here but this post is long enough so i’m gonna say good enough

and like i said in the tags on my other post, there are things i’d personally write differently if it were my story - plot points i’d shift, character contrasts i’d up, themes i’d explore differently, pacing i’d adjust, etc. i have plenty of ways i could be nitpicky and editorial about the effectiveness of julian’s arc. but i also don’t feel like writing them out at the moment & none of my critiques on effectiveness have an impact on the core appeal of his character 2 me. he’s so fucking good

#replies #tsc #tda #julian blackthorn #meta #long post #ungodly long post.#shadowhunters #Anonymous

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stellocchia · 3 years

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You know what? I just realised that the Red Egg is just another morally gray character who’s actually justified in it’s action if you look at them from it’s point of view...

(Just a disclaimer: this whole post will be sarcastic and made to point out some inconsistencies I’ve seen in various apologists arguments, I’ll try to make it clear troughout, but still, bear this in mind. It is also a critique of the FANDOM and NOT OF THE CHARACTERS)

Now you’ll ask: how can we justify the actions of a manipulative weird ass Egg/plant thing that feeds on human flesh and is Hell bent on world domination? Well, you’ll see that some arguments can be made in favour of it that are absolutely identical to some of the most popular ones that have been made about other well known characters (such as c!Dream or c!Techno, maybe others... I’ll see as I go).

Discussion under the cut... this will be a long one.

First argument: The Egg was always clear about it’s intentions. The Egg never hid from it’s followers (or allies if you may, after all power imbalance is rarely taken into account when analyzing relationships in this fandom...) that it’s objective was to expand, eat and unify the server under it’s guidance. This in and of itself, of course, already justifies somewhat the Eggs actions (after all, this argument is what “justified” Techno’s actions on november 16th and forward, why shouldn’t we apply it to other characters?). Honesty after all is always a good justifications for someone’s wrongdoings, no matter their impact on others.

Second argument: The Egg’s true objective is unity, which is ultimately good. How do we know that’s the Eggs true objective? Well, it’s the one that BBH, main interpreter of the Egg, insists most about. The Egg followers want to create unity under the Egg, easy as that. And unity being necessarily a good thing (as told to us by Ranboo with his “no sides” ideals and Dream with his “one big happy famaily” statement) means that the Egg at least got good intentions. Also wanting to unite people under your rule or system of belief is in no way tyrannical or wrong, and violence is always justified if your objective is ultimately positive (this is why, after all, neither Dream nor Techno or Phil were in the wrong when imposing their ideologies on others trough means of extreme violence and this is why Dream’s actions can not be defined as tyrannical while his ultimate objective was ultimate control)

You may wonder though, before we get to the next point, how can we just entirely trust the Eggs words with absolutly no critical analysis of it’s actions and without consulting any pov external from that of it’s followers? Well, that’s simply because we have absolutely no reason to believe the Egg is in any way an unreliable narrator, therefore we can take anything it says, either out loud or to it’s followers, as the absolute truth. Also we can assume without watching any external pov that anyone opposing the Egg is inherently biased, therefore it’s entirely useless to try and understand their point of view. (We have other examples of character like this in the story already, such as: Technoblade, Phil and Dream. Any statement they make can be taken as absolute fact regarding their motivation, actions or ideologies and any statement opposing what they say is to be discarded as biased or worthless)

Third argument: The Egg has given a lot to it’s followers, therefore is deserving of their absolute loyalty and it’s absolutely justified in harming them in retaliation if they shift sides (aka if they betray it). Now, I know what you’re thinking: “This sounds very manipulative and not okay, you can’t simply buy someone’s loyalty or friendship! They shouldn’t owe you if you give them something freely!”... well... you’re wrong. The Egg has given them so much! It gave them the power to achieve any of their desires and offers to do so for anyone who’d follow it. It even helped BBH when his best friend Skeppy got infected by healing him and giving BBH a cause to believe in and a group to belong to. It did so for Ant and Punz too, as well as trying to do so for many others. It just asked for their love in exchange! Can’t believe some people like Puffy would just stop loving it once she recognized that that relationship had changed her into someone she didn’t want to be! The Egg is fully justified in wanting her dead after her betrayal... (much like Techno and Phil were absolutely justified in Doomsday and in working with Dream as Tommy had betrayed them with no valid motivation whatsoever. If they’d killed him as he was on his last life they’d also be justified)

Some may wonder why is the Egg also justified in wanting to kill Tommy or in hurting Sam since they never technically betrayed it? Well, Tommy is annoying (God this actually hurts to write, it’s so damn stupid) and also a liability. For the Greater Good some sacrifices must be made and it’s fine for things to get destroyed or people to die as long as it is for a just cause. Also Sam getting hurt was just an unfortunate but necessary thing for him to learn his lesson not to oppose the Egg and be a hinderance for it. (Again: the abolishment of governaments was the ultimate and undoubtedly good objective of both Doomsday and the November 16th war which makes any and all casualties and propriety damage in both of this events excusable. Also it has been proven already that the only True and Right way to teach a “lesson” is trough violence by characters such as: Dream, Phil, Techno, Niki and Jack and confirmed by: Ranboo and Hbomb, we can therefore assume that this is true and also justified. If a character is considered an annoyance the justification points for using violence to teach them a lesson is doubled!)

Fourth argument: The Egg has often been used or talked about as a tool to get power, this is dehumanizing and it grants it free range to utterly detroy anyone who it percieves to have done so. While the precedent for this point is very muddled and hard to prove and The Egg has only gone after one of the people (Tommy) who wanted to use it for profit, it’s still worth pointing out and can be used as an excuse later on. Do we have no proofs of this happening? Do people start actually considering it a living breathing evil creature as soon as it shows to not be an inanimate plant and actually start immediately treating it as such? Has this never been pointed out by the Egg or it’s followers and has the Egg never expressed feeling uncomfortable with people’s views of it as well as ingoraging some of them itself? None of this matters! As long as The Egg starts expressing a belief that this happened way after with nothing to back it up it will still be to be taken at face value and it will be a valid reason to demonize any and all people who oppose it! (While an argument can actually be made for the Egg being dehumanized as it in no way, shape or form presents any similarities to an actual human, not from a moral, psychological or physical point of view, there are actually 0 proofs of this happening with our precedent for this point which is Techno, aside from his say so, this point is, however, just as valid for him. It doesn’t matter if something never happened as long as Techno perceives it as if it did).

The trauma that the dehumanization and betrayals may have caused could also be used as a further justification for all of the Eggs actions, though only if it is shown in the most mainstream and romanticized version of it and none of the ugly/debilitating aspects of ptsd are ever presented in any way (*cough* Ranboo, Techno and Phil to varying degrees *cough*), we don’t want such a sympathetic character lashing out, not being Sad all the time, shutting people off, being rude, being brash or talk too loudly, it would just ruin it all for everybody. Also the trauma should possibly not affect it in any significant ways and never actually be brought up if not in eloquent monologues to other characters for maximum effect (*cough* Techno again *cough*)

So, let’s recap: The Egg may be considered morally gray (no more or less then other characters though as only one shade of gray exists) as it did some things that may be perceived as excessive (mostly harming Sam as he is a conventionally likeable character who also has no amnesia or other mental health issues and, therefore, is the only type of character who’s feelings should be taken into account), but it’s mostly justified in it’s doings.

If none of this arguments seem to make sense and you think they don’t excuse the Egg’s actions (aka a demonic being with no sense of human morals) they should also be considered utterly worthless for any other character (all of them way more worthy of being held accountable for thir own actions) as well...

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ritzu · 4 years

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Why Ging isn’t as shitty as you think (META/ANALYSIS)

MAJOR HUNTER X HUNTER SPOILERS, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

These are not my full thoughts on the character, but I wanted to bring up a rebuttal for one specific point people use against Ging: the fact that he didn’t see Gon after the Chimera Ant arc.

My personal belief is that Ging already went to see Gon in the hospital, but didn’t tell anyone for Gon’s sake. Ging and Gon are almost identical, especially in their thinking. That’s why Gon isn’t mad at Ging for “leaving," because he understands him.

(MORE UNDER CUT)

We know that Gon has one goal throughout the show: to find Ging. Ging knew this too. Everyone knows this. Hell, it’s the reason for the whole show. However, we know Gon as a character, and he refuses to achieve victory in a half assed manner. The first example of this is when he refused to use his Hunter License until he punched Hisoka in the face.

Another instance is the Greed Island dodgeball game. If Ging didn’t know what transpired in the dodgeball game at Greed Island already (voodoo Game Master magic, I don’t know. Hell, we don’t even know what his Nen ability is yet.), he likely found out through Razor himself. It’s possible that after hearing that the game had been cleared, by his own son nonetheless, he would come pop in for a visit. We also see him with List and Dwun during the Chairmen Election arc, so they could’ve told him what happened there.

My last example, and the one I will primarily be focusing on, is at the beginning of the Chimera Ant arc, when he said “no” when Kite asks if he wanted to know where Ging was at the time.

Kite also told Gon about how he also had to complete the same task as Gon: finding Ging. This is another reason why Gon admires Kite, because he had accomplished the impossible feat. Kite is Gon’s hero, he is everything Gon wants to be. So naturally, Gon would want to do it in the the way Kite would. When Pitou’s corpse cuts off Gon’s arm, he states that he is happy, because now he is like Kite.

You would think that if Gon had the chance, he would want to find Ging, right? Jump at any opportunity? But Gon refused when offered the chance to know, because then it wouldn’t be done correctly. Kite knew this, too. He knew that Gon would never take him up on that offer, because he’s like his father.

So, Gon is in the hospital. If Ging went to see him, and someone saw him and told Gon, how do you think Gon would feel? His journey to find his father, the sole reason he became a Hunter, is so important throughout the series. And he wasn’t even able to be conscious for the thing he worked so hard happening to him.

To Gon, the world is black and white. Something is either good or bad, no gray area in-between. If Gon gains something from you (although not in a manipulative way), you are good. If you hurt him, you are bad. You could be a genuinely good person and Gon could still see you as bad (Komugi), or you could be a mass murderer and be considered good (Killua). His moral compass is skewed, because he is a child.

I just want to clarify that Gon is in no way a "monster." He is 14. The way he reacted is extremely realistic considering the circumstances. But I'll dive into that another time.

So if Gon only sees things as “right” or “wrong”, what way do you think he would see meeting his dad that way as? Knowing that the only reason why he was able to meet him was through the worst mistake of his life, knowing that his lifelong goal was finally achieved in the hospital, with Gon not even being aware of it? Knowing that the sole reason he got to meet Ging was because he was dying, with no say in the manner? He’d view that as wrong, right? This ties into Gon not willing to achieve anything in a half assed way, because any victory handed to him or from outside interference is viewed as cheating and “wrong.”

Ging understands that Gon wouldn’t be able to accept this victory, and so he didn’t go to visit him. Instead of him finding Gon, he let Gon find him. Personally, I believe that he did go to see Gon, but that’s up to your own interpretation. When confronted about it, he never outright denies that he didn’t visit Gon, but didn’t agree with it, either. Feel free to agree or disagree, my point still stands.

That’s why he said what he the things he did to Leorio during the QNA. “Did Gon himself say he wanted to see me?” is such an important line, and it’s almost universally misunderstood. Ging didn’t say that to be cruel, he said that because he cares about Gon’s feelings. He realized that Gon wouldn’t be able to accept it if that was their first meeting. It’s all about the wording, honestly. If Ging had said, “I don’t want to see Gon,” or something pertaining to how he himself feels about the situation, he would be [even more of] an asshole. However, he asks how Gon would feel. If Gon woke up from his Nen-induced coma and asked for Ging, he would’ve gone. In his own messed up way, this is him being a "good" father to Gon.

There’s also a good chance he said that to make Leorio angry. The only reason Ging was there in the first place was to have fun, and we know that he thought that Leorio was interesting. This is just speculation, but he could’ve said that to get him all riled up and do something “interesting” (like punching Ging).

I just want to say in no way am I saying that he is a good father. The whole point of Hunter x Hunter is there is no one character who is "good" or "bad," which is why it played out the way it did in the Chimera Ant arc. Yes, he's an asshole. But I think people should stop demonizing him, and try to look at his character from a different lens. Ging is a bad dad. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you dislike him, that is 100% valid and I completely understand why. People like to bring this scene up as damming evidence that he doesn't care about Gon, though, and I just wanted to share my piece on it.

If there’s something you’d be interested in me analyzing, feel free to send me an ask!

#ging freecss #gon freecss #hunter x hunter #hxh #meta #analysis

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simpforsolas · 3 years

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A Solas Apologist Post

I’m going to start off and say that I obviously think Solas’s plan to tear down the veil which will result in the destruction of the world is wrong. Mass genocide of the entire world is a no-no. That being said... let’s analyze why Solas is the best villain of all time.

Morally gray villains whose goals are perhaps understandable and noble, but who go about it in an awful way and without regard to the consequences, are somewhat popular. But I’ve never seen a character done as well as Solas, and I’m going to break down why.

Remember Thanos? Yeah, Solas is what Thanos was TRYING to be. Like Solas, Thanos had a goal that could perhaps be understandable. He’d seen the destruction that can be caused by overpopulation and lack of resources, and took it upon himself to make a decision that would result in mass death but would bring a brighter future. The FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE between the two though, and the reason why Solas works and Thanos doesn’t, is that Solas feels compassion and love. Thanos, on the other hand, loves no one. So when Thanos is supposedly making this huge sacrifice for the betterment of the world... literally WHY does he care if the world burns? He loves no one. Why does he care if people run out of resources and die? He’s never shown to express love or compassion in a normal healthy way, so it doesn’t work.

Solas, on the other hand, DOES care. He opposes slavery and any kind of affront on freedom. He opposes taking away people’s freedom to think or choose how they want to live. He believes in appreciating all living things, including things that are “different” who most people fear and don’t consider to be alive, such as spirits. When in the Hinterlands, Solas frequently approves of kind actions taken to help survivors in the aftermath of the Mage-Templar fighting, and comments how it saddens him to see people suffering. When I played the first time, I honestly thought Solas was the most empathetic person on the team—well, besides Cole, but he’s literally a spirit of compassion. Throughout the game, Solas shows himself capable of human connection and emotion. Even when he reveals himself as Fen’Harel and gives his whole speech, he shows regret with what he’s going to do.

Now you may be thinking, that’s all fine and good! But it doesn’t follow that just because he’s capable of love means he’s justified in destroying the world. To you I say, fair point. I don’t think he’s justified. But I do think he’s coming from a place of compassion and love.

Now, I’m rusty on my lore, but I know Fen’Harel was responsible for the veil being put up in the first place. He then woke up a year before the events of Inquisition. Can you imagine what that must have been like? He wakes up in a world where the veil has caused SO many problems. Spirits become demons and are killed. People fear spirits and magic. Mages are either demonized and locked up, or have too much power and use it for evil. There’s the Qun who control even the way people think, and constant wars—most traceable to people’s fear of magic, which became a problem because of the veil. Then there are the people at the bottom, innocent people who are just trying to survive but who live in a world designed to trample them. Perhaps worst of all to him, the elves have lost their glory. They’re either slaves, live in slums, or are like children playing pretend in the forests. Either way, elves are viewed as less by nearly everyone. The world was a disaster when he woke up. No one is happy.

So I think Solas not only wants to restore the glory of the old elves, but he wants to have a second chance to create a new world. He wants a world without oppression of mages, elves, or spirits, he wants a world where magic is beautiful and natural, not seen as evil. He wants a place where people can be free, and hopefully where people can prosper. And while he does care for the comfort of the people living now, he thinks that if we just tear down the veil and restore things to how they were before, the world will be better and there won’t be as much suffering. I think he personally feels responsible for the state of the world and wants to undo it. In his mind, the sacrifice is warranted. But unlike Thanos, Solas’s reasoning comes undoubtedly from a place of true compassion, along with the guilt that he has helped make the world become what it is today. He shows in his interactions with people that he cares for the unloved and downtrodden that no one else cares about. He’s not just some emotionless villain who seeks his own glory at the cost of everything else. He cares for people’s safety. He wants a better world, and he would be happy to sacrifice himself and be forever forgotten if that’s what was needed to achieve his goal.

And that is why Solas is such an amazing villain. Because even though I 100% disagree with his methods, I know why he wants to do what he wants to do, and I know that his reasoning for doing it comes because he truly cares about the world. He doesn’t have malice for anyone, doesn’t discriminate against any race, and doesn’t glory in evil or violence. In fact, his values are basically the same as mine. He believes in equality, kindness, and freedom, and in allowing people to live however they like as long as they don’t hurt anyone. He honestly doesn’t even FEEL evil. He’s a good person with noble goals, whose strange perspective guides him to making huge sacrifices for what he believes is the greater good.

Also, I swear to God BioWare, if you make him some evil creeper in the next game instead of allowing him to maintain his same personality I will END YOU (this is not actually a threat, btw, I realize now that it could sound like a threat but I would never harass developers. I just really hope they don’t mess up Solas and if they do I will just be sad and complain to my friends)

#solas #dragon age #dragon age 4 #da4 #DAI #dragon age inquisition #long post #fen’harel #the dread wolf

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mc-slowwalker · 3 years

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hahahahha that’s funny lol (saying that the author of the common enemy fics is c!dream) but yeah common enemy definitely won’t fix the issues cause it’s the cycle of violence that they have to break and that definitely will not be fixed easily

woooo syndicate supremacy (I’ve finally learned how to spell syndicate correctly through our conversation lol) they’re definitely doing better than other people on the server and I love that for them! oh yeah either or both c!tommy and c!dream definitely need to reflect on the fact that they’re both make eachother worse. I absolutely loved how that fic handled that aspect of it because closure and freedom is exactly what I want for c!dream and c!tommy more than anything. yeah exactly!! which is why I don’t like the idea of c!dream dying either cause it just leaves everything unresolved. I doubt that’ll happen in canon tho

yea!! can’t wait for the angst! cc!wilbur just posted on reddit about ghostbur so we’ve already got some more of it 😔✌️which also reminds me that I’m sooo interested to see how c!dream is like once he’s out of prison because so much of the fandom believes different thing and there’s no way that he’s gonna be better or changed cause he’s had no opportunity to plus he’s been through terrible torture for so long and I can’t wait to see the effect of that. which also reminds me that I’ve seen lately that a lot of the fandom seems to think that c!dream was put in the prison as a punishment when it was less about that and more about the fact that he could revive people and that his last canon life would have been taken if not for that fact. a lot of the fandom says he deserves the prison but not the torture as a punishment but that’s not why he was put in the prison and if that was the case literally every other character would deserve the same punishment as well as they’re all characters that have done bad things. I feel like my typing is just getting more and more rambly and less and less well punctuated lol sorry

oh yeah those fandom rules definitely make sense. especially as someone who has been in online fandom spaces for like a long time and has seen all the tumblr discourse lol. like yeah those rules were actually not bad and don’t send death threats or harass people shouldn’t have to be said as much as it is in mcyttwt. I really do wish that the young people in this fandom realise that they’re allowed to just have fun and do what they like in fandom

I think that taking into account the fact that a character is a minor is definitely important I just disagree with the way that a lot of people use it as such a final argument that doesn’t leave room for discussion. yeah I’m the same like when I was younger I used to think I was so grown up but like I’m 18 now and I realise that that’s still so young even though at 18 I’m an adult. basically like the “child” argument is not so black and white either like instead of a defence I think it’s more something that should be taken into account when discussing a characters actions and I definitely agree with the characters you’ve added as people who that can be extended to. and yeah like in real life the minors would face soo many more consequences it’s kind of funny like everyone would but with it being such a prominent topic of discussion it’s funnier applying real life rules to dsmp is often so funny. I agree c!tommy should 100% pay taxes that would be hilarious

ooh yeah the three life system interesting cause at first glance you’d think it makes them worth less but evidently not and I do wonder how the characters see it. like you said with c!foolish and c!puffy it was traumatic to take a first life but for some it just seems as chances and the last life is what actually matters. who it’s against and also circumstance I think matters. I also tend to brush off c!tommy taking two of c!dream’s lives but I also tend to brush off the canon lives lost during the first l’manburg war as it was war and c!dteam and co were just better. I suppose I’m an everything but l’manburg apologist because of its foundations ig although I can still understand and acknowledge it’s importance to the characters such as c!tommy. I’ve seen it said that c!dream deserves prison because he took two of c!tommy’s canon, amongst other reasons of course, but so many other characters have taken canon lives and how do you determine the consequence of that in the dsmp cause in irl it’s very different and in the dsmp so far there really is no consequence for murder. like for example c!punz took two of c!wilburs canon lives (I stan him for that I’m a punz simp what can I say) and other characters have taken canon lives too. hmm I wonder what determined the severity of crimes on the dsmp cause the one character that’s in prison wasn’t actually put in there for his crimes.

hahahaha yeah I just can’t wait till we finally don’t have to reach that much

ahaha fair enough I just sometimes type too fast and autocorrect never seems to know what I want to say and I do not have the brain power to proof read a single thing I write. also I type out the asks in notes and after I sent the last one I was like damn that was really long and pasted it into pages to check. and oh my god this one is over a thousand words that’s like longer than one of essays I wrote for my philosophy final exam😭😭 I am so sorry

I will say though that I am quite enjoying this discussion cause it’s the most in depth discussion I’ve been able to have about this

I saw the angst wilbur put on reddit that mother fucker (affectionate) I actually have a rewlly weird relationship with wilbur’s meta lore. Things I accept: sally is a salmon, fridge mom, all the characters being morally gray. Things I don’t accept: whatever he was trying to do with character ages, also saying revivebur was straight when c!tommy saw him and quackity making out like nice try king. One of my biggest issues with the sever is that I get so easily attached to mobs/npcs in dream smp and they die so easy so Im always sobbing,,,, if anything happens to shroud, yogurt, michael (notchill), or fran I’ll mcfucking lose it

For c!dream getting out of prison I see there being only two routes: 1. he’s worse by a lot more evil more fucked up or 2. He’ll be actually too fucked up/tired/traumatized to do shit. Either of which is gonna hurt the sever so I’m looking forward to it personally

Other real life things I think should be implemented into dream smp: jury duty, required 3 life insurance, dentsits, and OSHA

I do think the rebellion against c!dream (in the final control room) is really interrsting in that c!tommy/c!punz was about to organize a bunch of the server against dream? I know c!tommy has amazing puppy eyes tm but c!punz was able to organize a big group of people, half of them didn’t really have that much against dream (other than the l’manburg people) and were only there on more vague terms. Like c!hbomb and c!ponk really didn’t have shit against dream but still helped in getting him into prison

I feel like we’re always gonna have to reach a little bit and oh shit 1,000 words? Bruh half my classes require that and I have yet to actually right that much. it’s way easier with stuff you’re passionate about and with all the content dream smp has gives way more to analyze

#anon #ask #long post #would have typed more but I’m extremely distracted by tubbo getting upset by a video game my b

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mx-bright-sky · 4 years

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so for right now, it seems like everyone is in agreement that we’re getting into the endgame of bnha here in the manga

and! we still don’t know who the traitor is. huh. fancy that

so I’m going to do an exceedingly long look at each character of class a and give them each a rating on how likely they are to be the traitor based on a few criteria

First, the criteria:

Ability: Meaning, would they have been able to get information to the LOV about the Hero Classes and what they were doing. Also, there are some things where all or nearly all of the characters have the “ability” to do something in a certain situation (like the press break in- we didn’t really see anyone except for Izuku, Uraraka, and Iida, so anyone else could have been anywhere; or giving the location of the training camp, because it could have been anyone given the timing). In those situations, I’ll only point out outliers.

Behavior: I’m looking at behavior of the character rather than a specific “motive” because given that so much is “unknown” we can’t really assume someone is a traitor just because they could possibly have a good motive- after all, who knows, maybe All for One is blackmailing whoever the traitor is, and in that case, it could really be just about anyone. So, looking at behavior instead is analyzing “Would this character say these things and act this way if they had knowledge that they were giving information to the LOV?”

Story Impact: Of course dramatic tension isn’t the #1 reason to decide someone is a traitor, but the impact it has on the story is very important. If this were a real world scenario, it wouldn’t be, but given that this is a story meant to entertain, why would it bother with a traitor if said traitor wasn’t someone that would generate a reaction at the reveal? So while Story Impact alone can’t decide “yep this is the traitor” I do believe it should be included as a factor

Now, as for why I’m only looking at Class A, rather than expanding out to Class B and beyond; partially it has to do with the Story Impact point, because if it was someone from another class it would have much less of a dramatic weight, and also because Class A is usually the center of attention including in these villain attacks- basically, it would make more sense that it’s someone from Class A, because they’re able to give information on Class A specifically

I’ll be doing my best to give this an unbiased look, and no hard feelings if a character that happens to be your favorite gets a higher or lower score than you would have thought. This is still just my opinion, and I’m open to discussion on certain characters and topics if you have anything you’d like to add or anything you think is off.

For the most part with Ability to give info to the LOV, the last mention is the Kamino Raid Arc, because that’s the last time that it’s really been the LOV specifically versus Class A. The LOV did work with Overhaul, yes, but they weren’t really “buddy buddy” and I’m not sure how much information from the traitor would have helped. If there’s something I’m missing here, I would appreciate it if someone pointed it out to me so I could look into it further.

In addition, “This character was shown to be attacked during [x LOV attack]” won’t be included because that can be said for pretty much any character, and so we’ll operate under the idea that it’s POSSIBLE that for the first few attacks only All for One was aware of and working with the traitor, and therefor the LOV wouldn’t know not to attack them.

On to the analysis

Aoyama Yuuga

Ability: It is a bit suspicious that the story makes a point of not telling us where Aoyama was during the USJ attack, but that could just be a part of foreshadowing that plays into Aoyama’s development during the License Exam where he’s found hiding and is then talked into taking stand and helping his class. We know that during the Training Camp attack, he was hiding for a good majority of the time. It could be said that the fact that he was able to stay hidden suggests some kind of foresight or knowledge, but that’s a really shaky argument that I don’t find very convincing. Overall for Ability: 5 out of 10. You could look at the actions and twist them to your narrative, but it’s not really anything concrete.

Behavior: This section is really what helps contradict a lot of the points above, actually. In the USJ, why would Aoyama specifically go around asking “do you know where I was?” only to go “it’s a secret!” if he really is the traitor? It wouldn’t make sense for him to distinguish himself like that. Then in the Training Camp, Aoyama helped at the last second to knock the marbles away from Compress (which gave the others the chance to at least save Tokoyami from being captured). Why would he have done that if he were working with the LOV? Down the line, there are his interactions with Izuku where he acts strangely, but I really think it was more like Aoyama was trying to find common ground with him and just being awkward than anything overly suspicious. Overall for Behavior: 1 out of 10. If the stuff with his quirk really is a cover to make him less suspicious, then damn does it work, because I buy it. Unless if he WANTS to be caught, or WANTS to sabotage the LOV (pointing himself out in the USJ and helping during the Training Camp respectively). But otherwise, the behavior doesn’t match up.

Story Impact: (Unfortunately, because I like him,) Aoyama hasn’t been very present in the story; he’s clearly one of the more “”background”” characters, even if he’s a bit closer to the foreground than some others. However! Recently he has been getting closer to Izuku, and he does have a very loud personality even if he’s not always present in important plot related events. Overall for Story Impact: 7 out of 10. It wouldn’t be the most impactful of reveals, but I feel like it would get a reaction out of people.

Aoyama’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 13 out of 30. Pretty low, there’s a chance but I really don’t think it’d be him. There’s been too much bait and switch, and his character development helps to explain the things that have been happening with him, and I don’t think the story would throw in being a traitor on top.

Ashido Mina

Ability: Ashido was one of the people who avoided being teleported by Kurogiri in the initial USJ attack- perhaps foresight of what was coming helped her avoid being warped. During the Training Camp, Ashido was also safely indoors for the majority of the attack, with only Twice’s copies of Dabi to worry about (Aizawa dealt with that easily enough by himself). Overall for Ability: 7 out of 10. While obviously this by itself isn’t enough to say that she is, for sure, the traitor, it could be combined with other evidence to say that there is something there.

Behavior: Ashido is another loud personality of Class A, but we know little to nothing about her backstory- what we do know only comes from flashbacks of Kirishima’s past. She hasn’t had an arc focus on her, and we don’t know her internal thoughts or drives. So basically- we know very little about her personal life, and we haven’t seen her go through any development. Could this be hiding something? Or is there somehow a future plot point featuring her and her backstory that we haven’t come to yet? It should also be pointed out that Ashido was not part of the group that rescued Bakugou, even though she’s one of his friends and she doesn’t seem like the type to be overly concerned with the “we don’t have our hero licenses yet”. However, it would be wrong of me to not point out that during the USJ, Ashido did cry tears of joy when All Might showed up, seemingly relieved that he was there to save them, which would be strange if she were in fact the traitor. Overall for Behavior: 6 out of 10. Again, there’s nothing concrete, but the groundwork is there.

Story Impact: As I said, Ashido is another one of the loud personalities of Class A. She’s never had an arc dedicated to her, but everyone knows her, you know? While she’s never been the focus, she’s been present a lot. And she’s a likable character too. Overall for Story Impact: 7 out of 10. Again, like Aoyama, it wouldn’t be the most impactful, but it WOULD be a big deal.

Ashido’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 20 out of 30. A lot of it is circumstantial evidence, so it’s not the most concrete, but you have to admit that it’s a possibility. It could just be a case of the author neglecting to give her deeper characterization and in this case it just happens to look more suspicious, though. Overall I wouldn’t say I’m completely sold, but I wouldn’t write it off and say she’s for sure not the traitor.

Asui Tsuyu

Ability: Nothing really sticks out in the USJ, nor in the Training Camp attack. In the Kamino Raid Arc, she does directly disapprove of helping Bakugou, however if she were the traitor surely she would have told the LOV about the student’s plan. Overall for Ability 2 out of 10. Yeah I guess it’s still possible for her to be working with the LOV by rule of the factors where it could be any of Class A, but there’s nothing about her that makes her any more suspicious than anyone else.

Behavior: I did mention just above that she disapproved of helping Bakugou, but looking at her reasoning, that makes it unlikely for her to be the traitor. She didn’t want them to go because doing that kind of thing without a Hero License is against the law- and when Class A moves into the dorms afterwards, Asui is shown to feel bad about what she said to them about helping Bakugou. Would the traitor feel the need to go out of their way to apologize? I suppose it’s possible that there’s mixed feelings, a gray morality, and maybe Asui just didn’t want them to get hurt, but that’s an assumption based on the fact that we don’t have any real fact. Overall for Behavior: 3 out of 10. Again, I guess it’s possible and really it would depend on what the motive ends up being, and it depends on how willing the traitor actually is, but that’s really not enough to say it’s anything substantial.

Story Impact: Asui is one of Izuku’s friends who’s been there since almost the beginning, and she’s a very good friend of Uraraka. However, in recent arcs we haven’t really had anything that really emphasizes this friendship. Outside of story, we know that people do LOVE Asui though. Overall for Story Impact: 8 out of 10. It would be more impactful than some of the other Class A students who are less relevant, and it would certainly garner audience heartbreak, but the story would need to emphasize her friendship with Izuku (or Uraraka) more than it does currently when leading up to the reveal for it to be Peak(TM) heartwrenching drama.

Asui’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 13 out of 30. Another “I guess it’s possible”, but with her character as it currently stands, it doesn’t make the most sense.

Iida Tenya

Ability: Iida is literally one of the only characters that we KNOW couldn’t have done anything during the press break in. In the USJ, Iida is the one who ran for help and got All Might to show up and basically solved the situation in a way, which really makes it seem unlikely. He did have that “dark” turn in the Hero Killer Stain arc, but that makes it even less likely than more likely because even though Shigaraki didn’t like Stain, Stain was still working with them. In the Training Camp he was helping other students get to safety. In the Kamino Raid arc, he went with the group to save Bakugou and kept them from making reckless decisions that would have gotten them hurt. Overall for Ability: 1 out of 10. If I was doing negatives in this ranking scale, it would be negative. Iida is so unlikely. I am only here because the point is doing Every Character.

Behavior: He’s like a big brother that wants to keep everyone safe. He feels responsible for Class A because he’s their Class Rep. He disagreed with the saving Bakugou mission but only because he didn’t want them to make the same mistake he did, and eventually he agreed to go with them to keep them safe. Overall for Behavior: 1 out of 10. There’s no Iida is the traitor.

Story Impact: Would Izuku be heartbroken by this? Yes. Would a lot of fans be heartbroken? Yes. But looking at all the other things on the list, this is really one of those “it came out of nowhere and was bullshit” kind of twists if it did hypothetically happen, so really it would be a bad idea. Overall for Story Impact: 1 out of 10. It would ruin so much.

Iida’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 3 out of 30. This is literally the lowest score you could get. I think this is the one of the only characters that I can say, for 100% sure, is not the traitor. There’s just no way. By all accounts it doesn’t make sense.

Uraraka Ochako

Ability: We know she couldn’t have done anything during the press break in, like Iida. During the USJ, she was one of the people who avoided being warped away by Kurogiri, like Ashido; however this was because she was saved by Iida and not any kind of ahead-planning. During the training camp she aided in helping Izuku and a group of others go after Mr Compress to get Bakugou and Tokoyami back. She did directly disagree with the group that went to save Bakugou during the Kamino Raid arc, but again if she is the traitor it’s not something that she told the LOV about which is strange. Overall for Ability: 1 out of 10. Really doesn’t seem likely, looking at this.

Behavior: She is one of the Class A characters that we know isn’t a hero for the sake of being a hero or the “selflessness” of it. She wants to be a hero for money, specifically money to help her family that’s not very well off. Of course that doesn’t mean she has to be the traitor or that she’s selfish, but what it does mean is that she cares a lot about her family, and we know this. Could be blackmail? Not concrete but worth considering. Toga does make a comparison between herself and Uraraka, commenting that the two of them are alike. For the main female character, she really hasn’t had any kind of deep focus on her since the Sports Festival- most of it is just “uwu girl crush” stuff, which is disappointing, but like with Ashido- who knows! Maybe it’s hiding something. Overall for Behavior: 4 out of 10. You could make a case for it, but nothing concrete.

Story Impact: Maybe I’m biased because I used to really really like the Traitor Uraraka headcanon, but oh my god that would be so heartwrenchingly good. The Drama(TM) of it. If it was played right, I think it could be done well. And the reason it’s different with Uraraka from Iida is that you CAN make a case that it’s possible that she is the traitor but either isn’t willing or is morally gray to where she cares about people from Class A and tries to keep them safe. Iida, on the other hand, does more to actively destroy the LOV’s plans, and I can’t really buy the “unwilling traitor” because the only good blackmail would be threatening his family which is... made up of heroes. Even with Tensei after being attacked by Stain, that’s after the USJ so he couldn’t have been the traitor from the start. I don’t know. Again, maybe I’m biased, but I feel like if it were played right, traitor Uraraka just might be able to come through. Overall for Story Impact: 10 out of 10 if done well, but 1 out of 10 if done poorly. I think if the story is able to pull it off in a morally gray way and treats it like a complex situation it could work, but if the twist is a “well the traitor is just secretly evil and has been evil the whole time :)” then that’s just blegh and doesn’t make sense.

Uraraka’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 15 out of 30. I could see it going either way. Imagine it if she was the traitor? Wow, that would be something huh. But at the same time, yeah, I recognize that there are a few things that don’t make sense, and if those end up left unexplained then traitor Uraraka wouldn’t be that great. Maybe she really has just been bogged down to “love interest girl :)” and I’m just trying to cling to the idea that maybe just maybe she could have a complex narrative that treats her like a person.

Ojirou Mashirao

Ability: This really sucks to say but, there’s not really. Enough of him being around to make him particularly a standout either for or against in either the USJ or Training Camp attack. He was solo in the USJ, yeah, but does that tell us that he was able to be solo because he’s got more intel than we know, or is it a “no way he’s the traitor because it was so hard for him”? Really up to interpretation. Overall for Ability: 5 out of 10. It could go either way but we just don’t KNOW enough.

Behavior: Again, there’s not anything during a LOV attack to go off of, BUT. In the Sports Festival, Ojirou is the one who dropped out of the tournament round because he only passed the Cavalry Battle because Shinsou had brainwashed him and so he felt he hadn’t “earned” it. There was no prompt for him to do this, no one asked him to, he just did. Would a traitor have given up the spot so honorably? It could also be argued that maybe he did it to stay out of the spotlight and that he’s been staying on the down low this whole time, and he “honorable” thing was an act, but... mm I don’t know, again that’s just speculation. Overall for Behavior: 4 out of 10. Again yeah I guess it’s possible if you twist it right, but there are lots of “it’s possible if you twist it right” and we just don’t know enough about Ojirou.

Story Impact: Ojirou is someone who really doesn’t have much interaction with the story or plot. He’s kinda there, occasionally he’s in conversation, but I feel like about half of his lines are just student filler that could be replaced with anyone. I’m sorry, it sounds mean to say that because I know people like him, but the story just doesn’t give him any attention. Overall for Story Impact: 5 out of 10. Any Class A student would have at least somewhat of an impact on the fact that “but they were our CLASSMATE” but for Ojirou there’s no connection to the “main” main characters that would make it particularly dramatic.

Ojirou’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 14 out of 30. I feel like the one way it could work is if it really leans into the whole “I was staying on the down low this whole time, keeping myself from attracting attention, so that no one would notice it was me”, but even then I feel like there are other characters that could do it better and Ojirou just doesn’t seem very likely.

Kaminari Denki

Ability: In the USJ Aizawa asked Kaminari to see if he could use his quirk to get through the barrier or contact the school, and it was a bit of throwaway dialogue that was never brought back in. That could mean anything really- maybe it was a bit of throwaway dialogue, maybe the fact that Kaminari (clearly, because the school was never contacted directly, and Iida had to go) wasn’t able to do it is suspicious, maybe his quirk just incapable of that, who knows! Who knows. In the Training Camp attack, Kaminari was safely inside, like how I mentioned Ashido earlier. Overall for Ability: 6 out of 10. I don’t know, maybe there’s something there, but I gave him a bit of a lower score than Ashido because Kurogiri did warp him.

Behavior: I guess I’m just gonna keep bringing up Ashido, because Kaminari and Ashido have a lot in common and are a comedic pair on occasion. Anyway, with Ashido I mentioned that she’s got a loud personality but that we never get let in to see what’s going on with her personal life or inner circle. Kaminari is much the same way, because even though there was a brief something in the License Exam, he’s had no focus either. And considering that I just did Ojirou, I know it seems strange to bring up that he doesn’t have anything as something that’s more suspicious for him than it was for Ojirou, but the reason it is more suspicious is that he’s kept very present. It’s like, the story wants you to keep him in mind, but hasn’t properly utilized him or given him an arc yet. Also, when it comes to villain attacks, he acts cowardly (even if he does help eventually). Would he really be so afraid if he were the traitor, or is it an act to avoid suspicion? Overall for Behavior: 6 out of 10. It’s a lot of “perspective” stuff where maybe it COULD make sense, but it’s just speculative.

Story Impact: I’m probably gonna end up with the same score as Ashido here, for the same reasons. Kaminari has a big presence, so even though he hasn’t had much of a “focus” people like him. He’s a part of the Bakugou friend group, so we know that would be dramatic for them, looking at it from a purely in story drama view. Overall for Story Impact: 7 out of 10. It’d make waves, but more like “really windy day” waves, not TIDAL waves.

Kaminari’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 19 out of 30. His situation is, as I’ve said, a lot like Ashido’s, where people really know him and he’s a favorite, but (as far as I’m remembering, if I’m missing an entire arc in my brain then tell me) he hasn’t had a real FOCUS on him in any story arc. Ah yes, the age old question: is this character just not developed at all, or are they hiding something?

Kirishima Eijirou

Ability: Directly tried to attack Kurogiri at the USJ, alongside Bakugou. Even after clearing the villains that were in the area he was in, he (and Bakugou) went to help Aizawa who was fighting villains at the center of the USJ. In the Training Camp he’s safe inside just like Kaminari and Ashido, but in the Kamino Raid arc he seems to feel genuinely guilty that he wasn’t there to help Bakugou and is the one who gathers the rescue team to go help him. Overall for Ability: 1 out of 10. Not as unlikely as Iida, but pretty damn unlikely.

Behavior: We know from his backstory that his drive is to become a courageous hero, we know that he wants to grow and stop being afraid. Unless you REALLY somehow twist that there’s no way that’s traitor material. He’s a rowdy boy, but he’s a rowdy boy with a good heart. Overall for Behavior: 1 out of 10. As unlikely as Iida on this one.

Story Impact: On this one it feels like a crossroads between Traitor Iida and Traitor Uraraka. Like, maybe if it’s done right it could be really good and impactful, but mostly it feels like if it did happen it would be a twist that’s just for shock and it would harm more than help the story. Overall for Story Impact: 1 out of 10. I just don’t see it happening. With his backstory especially, it doesn’t make sense.

Kirishima’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 3 out of 30, another lowest score. If it happens, I’ll eat my left shoe. If it happens and is then used as “Bakugou character development” or whatever that somehow makes him be like “I’m good now!” but then he still doesn’t change his behavior just like every other time, I’ll throw up my left shoe and then eat it again.

Kouda Kouji

Ability: There is nothing for this in canon. We don’t even SEE him in the Training Camp attack, I think. Kouda deserves better. I guess you could say his quirk could help him gather info, but that’s about it. Overall for Ability: 6 out of 10. The 6 rating is mostly for his quirk but otherwise we don’t know anything about him so we can’t say whether it goes either way.

Behavior: Same ^ Overall for Ability: 5 out of 10.

Story Impact: I guess you could go with the same reasoning as Ojirou (”I stayed on the down low on purpose, ho ha ha”) but with Kouda I think it’s still less likely because at least Ojirou has lines, meanwhile Kouda is a very quiet character. That’s not to say that makes him less likable, just less noticeable, by the cast and by the audience. Overall for Story Impact: 4 out of 10. Like I said, no matter what Class A character it is there’s gonna be the whole “but you were our CLASSMATE” drama, but with Kouda it’s one of the least dramatic reveals because, sadly, there’s just nothing there. Character arc for Kouda WHEN?

Kouda’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 14 out of 30. Only that high because we literally just Don’t Know. Kouda I’m sorry.

Satou Rikidou

Ability: Another one with a huge lack of information. We know he was safe during the Training Camp attack, but it’s like... hardly anything to go on. Hey Horikoshi, give us more about the other characters except for a 193334th arc featuring Bakugou, please. Overall for Ability: 5.5 out of 10. I guess because of the safe during Training Camp thing, but in this case that’s really not much at all.

Overall for Behavior: 5 out of 10.

Overall for Story Impact: 5 out of 10.

Satou’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 15 out of 30. I didn’t really write anything because I didn’t want to be too repetitive, but man I just feel sorry for the characters that don’t get any spotlight, this is just sad.

Shouji Mezo

Ability: Shouji was one of the nonwarped students in the USJ, but he helped restrain Kurogiri so that Iida would be able to run for help. In the Training Camp attack, he helped rescue Tokoyami. These actions directly oppose the LOV. An argument could be made that his quirk would give him an advantage with spying and gathering information, but I feel like there’s more evidence against him being the traitor than for it. Overall for Ability: 1. He’s kind of “not around a lot adjacent” where he’s in between the characters who are loud and present but have nothing of substance, and the characters that are very much so just “background”. But from what there is, I feel like it’s unlikely.

Behavior: Again, he helped rescue Tokoyami during the Training Camp attack. Why would he do that if he were the traitor? I suppose an argument could be made that maybe it was just because there were other students around watching who could be judging, but that’s not solid. Overall for Behavior: 2. Because I considered the counter argument just a little, but don’t find it very convincing.

Story Impact: I guess it could go for the angle where it’s like “he’s like the LOV because he has a mutation quirk, and there are members of the villains like Spinner who were othered for having mutation quirks!” But mmmm nah. I really think Shouji is just kind of stoic but on the inside is good and helpful (shown by pretty much every scene he’s in if you actually pay attention). Overall for Story Impact: 4 out of 10. Again, any Class A person will have SOME impact, but with Shouji I feel like it would just feel meh because it’s like, of course you made the scary looking guy the traitor, right?

Shouji’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 7 out of 30. I mean, I wouldn’t say he’s less likely than others like Kouda or Ojirou, but with Kouda and Ojirou there’s just so much uncertaintly, meanwhile Shouji’s character traits that are there all point to “Nah.”

Jirou Kyouka

Ability: Nothing strikes out as anything specific during the USJ, but it is worth pointing out that she was one of the only two Class A students to be hit with Mustard’s poisonous gas and therefor was missing from the discussion about going after Bakugou, which would explain why the LOV didn’t know it was going to happen if we were to believe that she’s the traitor. In addition, her quirk would help her gather information by letting her listen in on things that perhaps she’s not meant to hear. Overall for Ability: 7.5 out of 10. Nothing overly suspicious, but you this stuff is worth taking into account.

Behavior: During the USJ attack, she DID try to talk down a villain that was threatening Kaminari’s life. She’s also one of the few characters who we have insight into their backstory, and we see that same pure “just yearning to be a hero” from her. Overall for Behavior: 1 out of 10. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible for her to be the traitor, but the way she acts doesn’t really match up.

Story Impact: She’s not really one of the characters considered a “main” main character, but she’s certainly one of the ones that gets more focus. People are attached to her as a character. That being said, again, with the way her character stuff has been set up unless there’s some key info we’re missing out on, it would probably be one of the “this just comes out of nowhere” twist. Overall for Story Impact: 5 out of 10. I don’t think it would be nearly as bad as some others, like Iida or Kirishima, but it still feels like the twist would be a bit lacking.

Jirou’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 13.5 out of 30. You could argue she has the ability to be the traitor, but for the most part what we’ve seen of her character so far doesn’t match up with the idea that she IS the traitor.

Sero Hanta

Ability: During the USJ, he was one of the people to not be warped away, but he also directly helped restrain Kurogiri so that Iida could run for help. In the Training Camp attack he was one of the people in the main building. Overall for Ability: 4 out of 10. I wouldn’t rule it out but it seems unlikely.

Behavior: I don’t know. Nothing really sticks out? He’s a lot like Kaminari and Ashido where he’s got a loud personality but hasn’t had any deep dive into his character, but at the same time he feels like... just a level under Kaminari and Ashido, if you know what I mean. Like, yes he is loud and gathers attention, but to a relatively less degree than them. One thing that could be worth pointing out is that he’s frequently looked down upon- in the Sports Festival even before his “fight” with Todoroki, when Present Mic was introducing him if I remember correctly he made some kind of comment about Sero being “unremarkable” (I could have remembered that wrong). And then Todoroki did beat him rather quickly. There’s the first training after everyone comes back from internships, and even though Sero “won” he was still somewhat overshadowed by Izuku and his learning to use Full Cowl. In the exams arc, he didn’t pass even though his partner did. I’m not saying that all this about him being looked down upon means that he HAS to have some kind of a grudge, but it is a possibility worth noting down. Overall for Behavior: 7 out of 10. Mostly for the same reasons I gave for Kaminari and Ashido being likely; the whole “there, but not really”. I wouldn’t put stake on the “inferiority” idea towards either proving or disproving it.

Story Impact: I feel like if it went for the “everyone looked down on me” angle it might be cool, but I’m not entirely sold. That’d have to be a “surprise! [The traitor] was really evil all along and was faking” kind of traitor twist, and I’m not really a fan of that idea because I just DON’T believe that anyone in Class A could be “evil” even if they end up being the traitor. Overall for Story Impact: 6 out of 10. He’s a loud personality but he’s not as included in the story as some others, and so it wouldn’t be as dramatic as someone we know better. It would still be dramatic, sure, but it wouldn’t be Peak Drama(TM).

Sero’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 17 out of 30. More likely than some others, I suppose, but I wouldn’t say he’s the most likely.

Tokoyami Fumikage

Ability: During the USJ, the area he was warped to was some kind of storm simulation. That could go either way as a piece of evidence, depending on how you twist it, either “for” because it would make Dark Shadow stronger or “against” because it would make Dark Shadow harder to control. During the Training Camp attack, Dark Shadow lost control and had to be weakened by Bakugou and Todoroki. Tokoyami was also the person who was nearly captured by the LOV alongside Bakugou. That’s another piece of evidence that could go either way depending on how you interpret it; you could say that “the fact that they bothered capturing him makes him disqualified as the traitor because if he WAS they wouldn’t bother taking him” (though I did acknowledge at the start that it’s possible the LOV didn’t know who the traitor was or that there even was one, and that the traitor was attached to just All for One) or you could say “interesting that Tokoyami was singled out here”. Overall for Ability: 5 out of 10. It’s very back and forth; you could interpret it either way to make whatever case you want.

Behavior: He does act dark and brooding a lot. But that’s just like, how “stereotypical” is the story gonna go with the whole traitor situation? Is it gonna go for one of the more obvious people who seem “darker”? Or would it go for someone that would be cheery specifically to catch readers off guard? Seemingly, more flip flopping. Is Tokoyami’s learning to control Dark Shadow a metaphor for how there is a darker side of him he’s trying not to let out (like say, being the traitor), or is it just a showcase of how he’s truly a good person despite his quirk? Overall for Behavior: 5 out of 10. There are lots of characters who have been getting fives because it could go either way, but Tokoyami is the first one where it doesn’t feel like it’s because of a lack of information. I mean, don’t get me wrong, there still IS a lack of information; we don’t know anything about Tokoyami’s background. Which does leave things open. But it still feels like it really could be nothing.

Story Impact: I’d say that in terms of relevance he’s about at the same level as Sero. Definitely not one of the more left out background characters, but he doesn’t have a “loud” personality that makes him stick out, and he’s not always made important in the big group arc showcases. Overall for Story Impact: 6.5 out of 10. A bit higher than Sero because there is the connection to Izuku that was made during the Sports Festival. That being said, similar to how I feel like Sero would be a cheap traitor if the story went for the “they looked down on me” angle, I feel like Tokoyami would be a bit cheap as a traitor because he’s already brooding and dark, you know?

Tokoyami’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 16.5 out of 30. It’s certainly possible, but much like everything else, I could see it going either way. Personally, I really like the idea that he’s got a “dark” power but still wants to do good and is striving to be a hero and to gain control over Dark Shadow so that he can help people.

Todoroki Shouto

Ability: During the USJ he froze the entire section of villains he was warped to, threatened them for information about their plans, and then as soon as he gathered enough his first move was heading to the center and freezing the Nomu. These actions directly go against the LOV. In the Training Camp attack, he directly helped rescue Tokoyami and NEARLY rescued Bakugou before Dabi got to the marble first. In the Kamino Raid arc, he was one of the people who helped PLAN to go save Bakugou. Overall for Ability: 1 out of 10. Lmao no. Literally as unlikely as Iida, if not more unlikely.

Behavior: Like, maybe you could argue that Pre-Sports-Festival-Todoroki could possibly be roped into working for the LOV with the promise that they’re taking out hero society, but like, that LOV motive didn’t really become “a thing” until after Stain, and after Stain was after Todoroki already went through his character arc and started living for himself rather than living for spiting Endeavor. Overall for Behavior: 1 out of 10. There’s just no way. Not happening.

Story Impact: He’s TOO close to the center, if you know what I mean. We know far too much about him, if he was somehow the traitor, we would KNOW by now because of how present is and how much of his background we already know. Like, yeah I guess it would be devastating to the characters around, but that’s another “subverting expectations for the sake of doing it rather than actual story quality” twist. Overall for Story Impact: 1 out of 10. It would be so bad.

Todoroki’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 3 out of 30. Another “no way in hell”. We already have Dabi (if the Dabi is Touya theory is correct). Todoroki as the traitor just makes zero sense.

Hagakure Toru

Ability: She claims that she was warped to the same zone as Todoroki in the USJ, but did not make any attempt to make him aware of this until after the fact; when she says she was in his area, Todoroki has a “Wow she should have told me what if I accidentally froze her” moment. Seems very ambiguous for whether or not she was actually there, because she’s invisible. People have pointed out before that she’s missing in a panel during the Training Camp before the attack, where the view is just showing where all of Class A is, but I don’t really think that’s too “big”; it doesn’t mean she had to have been getting information to the LOV because TEXTING exists and literally all the character’s have phones, and they clearly weren’t banned because Izuku had his on him (it was broken when he went to save Kouta from Muscular). Like Jirou, she was the only other member of Class A who was in the hospital because of Mustard’s gas, and therefore was not present to hear of the plan to rescue Bakugou. Her quirk could potential be beneficial to collecting information, as she might be able to sneak into places undetected. Overall for Ability: 8 out of 10. She is a bit suspicious, but I don’t think this is anything that completely confirms that she 100% has to be the traitor. It’s a bunch of various things added up, and that makes it seem bigger, but it’s possible that all of these individual things mean nothing.

Behavior: If she were the traitor, it would be good for her to be as unnoticeable as possible, which fits well considering her quirk; however, in panels where characters are just chatting, she’s repeatedly talked about wishing she could stand out more and trying to stand out more. Maybe it’s just a cover to blend in more, because despite saying this she doesn’t “stand out” stand out much, but it’s still a bit odd. There’s only so much reverse psychology-ing you can do on this. It has also been pointed out that she was the one who suggested the class outing to the mall, where Shigaraki confronted Izuku before the Training Camp arc, but I don’t feel like that argument holds much water; we saw Shigaraki leave the LOV bar because he was upset, and he never said where he was going to, so it’s not like this could have been pre-planned. Overall for Behavior: 3 out of 10. I don’t know, maybe you could twist it to suspicious if you tried, but I really don’t think it fits.

Story Impact: Really, it depends on how the story tells it. Perhaps it could really explain the reasoning behind all her decisions. But I feel like we don’t see enough of Hagakure for it to be as impactful as it could be. Also, it would be a “you see this sunshine who you thought was really nice? Well, she’s the traitor, lol” which, if not handled in a good way, could come across as bland. Overall for Story Impact: 6 out of 10. Even if the story does her motives well, and doesn’t have it as a “shocking just to be shocking” she’s just Not That Present in the story. The impact would probably be a bit lacking.

Hagakure’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 17 out of 30. I know there are some people who are really a fan of this theory, and I can understand that because if you look at her ability to be the traitor and the chances she has and all of the individual moments, you could twist it that way, and it does seem a bit suspicious. But otherwise, I don’t think the twist would hold much weight. It almost seems like a “safe” option? It does seem possible though.

Bakugou Katsuki

The. The league literally captured him and said “quit your school and join our emo band” and he was like “lol no villains are losers”. I won’t say he has the best reasons for being a hero (given that he just wants to “win” like All Might and be strong), but he’s not the traitor or a villain. We know too much of his backstory too. He does too much to stop the LOV too.

I’m just gonna go ahead and give this a 3 out of 30 we already know it ain’t him, I’m not wasting time thinking about it. Yes I know I did for Iida and Todoroki and Kirishima but the difference is I like them and that I couldn’t care less about Bakuogu.

Midoriya Izuku

God can you imagine. The story has been lying to us this whole time.

Mineta Minoru

Ugh I’m tired of this section already let’s get it over with

Ability: Nothing in the USJ, in the exams he was the only half of his team to pass so we know he didn’t purposely sabotage himself so he’d be safe in the Training Camp attack. Overall for Ability: 3 out of 10. Unfortunately.

Behavior: He’s gross and abhorrent, but not in the kind of “suspiciously villainous” kind of way. Overall for Behavior: 2 out of 10. We know what’s going on with him and we wish we didn’t.

Story Impact: Well it would certainly make some people happy because they could hate him and see him get beat, and he’s definitely been one of the just to the left of front and center character who’s been very annoyingly present at all times, but it feels cheap because we should be able to hate him and expel him for the horrible thing’s he’s already got going on. Overall for Story Impact: 4 out of 10. I hate this ugly grape boy. He gives “grape” a bad name.

Mineta’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 0 out of 10. Horikoshi’s not gonna make his pervy self insert be the traitor.

Yaoyorozu Momo

Ability: Helped fight during the USJ like everyone else, so there’s nothing special there. In the Training Camp attack she’s the one who attached a tracker to the Nomu to lead the heroes to the LOV’s base, and she also helped lead the Bakugou Rescue Squad (to keep them out of trouble, like Iida), and clearly didn’t land them into a trap. Overall for Ability: 1 out of 10. She’s the real lawful good.

Behavior: Looking at the above, she’s been doing so much to help her fellow hero students. It really doesn’t feel like she has any ulterior motives. Overall for Behavior: 1 out of 10. She just wants to help people. She is a good and powerful girl.

Story Impact: It would be a surprise, but it wouldn’t feel at all earned. Overall for Story Impact: 3 out of 10. She’s liked enough it would matter, but again it wouldn’t feel earned. But at the same time she’s not present enough that it would be COMPLETELY awful. Only mostly awful.

Yaoyorozu’s Chances of Being the Traitor: 5 out of 30. Really doesn’t seem like she would be the traitor. I severely doubt it.

FINAL SCORES AND RANKINGS

So, going from most to least likely,

Ashido Mina at 20

Kaminari Denki at 19

Hagakure Toru and Sero Hanta at 17

Tokoyami Fumikage at 16.5

Uraraka Ochako and Satou Rikidou at 15

Ojirou Mashirao and Kouda Kouji at 14

Jirou Kyouka at 13.5

Asui Tsuyu and Aoyama Yuuga at 13

Shouji Mezo at 7

Yaoyorozu Momo at 5

“No Way In Hell Club” Todoroki Shouto, Izuku Midoriya, Iida Tenya, Kirishima Eijirou, Bakugou Katsuki, and unfortunately Mineta Minoru, all at 3

Note that being higher ranked doesn’t necessarily mean that I say they HAVE to be the traitor, just that I would find it more believable.

Again, please note that if you feel I’ve left something out, I in fact welcome people to point out things I’m missing!

But for now these are my Traitor Thoughts(TM). They might change if we hear more about a concrete motive, but as we don’t have one, this is all I got.

If there’s anyone still reading (which I doubt ahsjdkfljaskd this post is so long) thanks for sticking around for so long! This took a while to write, so I would really appreciate a reblog

#my posts #my metas #This Post Does Include EVERY Canon Class A Character #Which Unfortunately Means That Yes. M-Slur (grape bitch) Is Here

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king-paimon · 4 years

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HNK Chapter 86 thoughts: Complicated characters being complicated (Thoughts on Diamond)

I’ve been so anxious about this chapter after the last one. I’m happy to say that it isn’t as heart wrenching as I thought it would be, which was great, but it’s clear now we are approaching end-game and there will no doubt be some sadness coming soon.

The art in this chapter was gorgeous! I want that two page spread as a poster! Phos looks awesomely horrifying and Ms. Ichikawa never fails to make me laugh at the most weirdest of times. Seriously, the whole buildup with Alex for it to end up with him passing out was hilarious! It was also nice to see most of the gems in the same chapter, and while I’m still sad we’re going to have some major losses, I’m really looking forward to what’ll happen next.

But I want to give my thoughts on the true star of this chapter: Diamond.

This is another really long post so be warned. I again apologize for the messy writing; it is still not my strongest trait, but I’ll do my best to put my thoughts into words and I will make any necessary edits if I need to. These are my thoughts and if you want to share yours, I’m all for it. Please no attacks, though. Everyone has their own opinion when it comes to the characters and while we may not agree, these opinions will be respected. Thank you and please enjoy my probably poorly written analysis!

Diamond... is such an interesting, complicated character. Like with Phos, it’s fascinating how they ended up this way.

After chapter 84, I was curious to see how Dia was going to react to Bort and it turned out better than I thought. After years of not properly dealing with this toxic relationship between Dia and Bort, of course it would end up with an emotional driven fight. But what has me most interested is how it’s Dia who’s going feral while Bort is being calm. It’s like their personalities flipped, but after looking back, it makes sense.

Diamond is tightly bound to their inferiority complex and their so-called rivalry with Bort. I betcha that if Bort was the same as he was at the beginning of this story, I’m sure Diamond wouldn’t be flipping out like they did in the chapter. I’m sure that was exactly what they were expecting to see, but that’s not what they got: not only had Bort changed physically, but he had changed mentally. He’s no longer the battle hunger fighter Dia knew; he’d rather care for the jellyfish and not fight at all. Bort has changed through and through. And maybe I’m seeing this all wrong, but I think this is one of the facts that made Dia livid.

In Dia’s insecure mind, they believe they must be equal to or better than Bort. They must prove to themselves that they are a true diamond by beating the stronger, battle loving Bort at his own game, so they can be truly free of fear and feeling inferior. Dia now finally has the chance to do this… but that Bort isn’t there anymore. And because of that, Dia feels cheated and angry. Also, I think it’s funny that Dia claims that Bort got to live freely because of them, though really, it’s Phos to thank but of course neither gem will acknowledge that. (Continuing to show how much the gems care about Phos, I see *sarcasm*)

It’s interesting though: Diamond was the one who left and got a new life, but didn’t truly mature or change, while Bort was the one who stayed behind but had changed and matured (sort of.) You’d think it would’ve been the other way around but the fact that this is what happened just makes the characters more interesting to analyze. Speaking of which...

Diamond and the blame game

I can understand Dia’s inferiority complex and how it’s tied to their obsession with Bort. I can definitely sympathize with them and understand why they made their decisions. But at the same time, I recognize that these feeling are not Bort’s fault but rather Dia’s. This ‘rivalry’ of Dia’s is entirely one sided and the negative thoughts Dia has about themselves are all self-imposed. For this reason, my sympathy for Dia can only go so far.

If Bort was the type to over-gloat and constantly and intentionally belittling Dia and putting these terrible thoughts in Dia’s head, then I would definitely be more sympathetic towards Dia and would hate Bort... But as far as I can remember, Bort never said anything like this to Dia (yeah, he said very mean stuff to Phos but that’s entirely another thing.)

While he had scolded Dia harshly for doing anything risky, like that time after he saved Dia and Phos all the way back in the first chapters (Chapter 3 specifically,) I pretty sure Bort never went out of his way to intentionally make Dia feel inferior, especially for some sort of personal gain. As far as I see, Bort’s only crimes against Dia was being overly protective, overly strict, and simply existing. I’m not saying that Bort is completely guiltless, because Bort is guilty of a lot of things and does deserve some form of punishment. But intentionally making Dia feel sorry for themselves isn’t one of them. That is all Dia; Dia is the one who put themselves in this negative head-space and chose to run away than properly deal with them. They shouldn’t keep blaming Bort for their self-inflicted misery, but they chose to.

Should Bort have treated Dia differently/better? Oh yeah, most definitely. Bort, throughout most of the story, had a problem when it came to how he treated the other gems, especially Dia and Phos, and could have done things differently. But regardless, I still understand why he acted the way that he did, partially due to my own experiences in life, and I can’t hate him for it. And despite what I said before, the same goes for Dia; I may not agree with how they’re handling things, but I can understand why it came to this. But in the end, the truth is this: Diamond’s inferiority complex

What’ll happen next?

I keep on telling myself to not make predictions for this series because Ms. Ichikawa is great at throwing curve balls, but I can’t help but think of the possible scenarios of what’ll happen next between Diamond and Bortz.

The first one is that they end with a draw. Both end up beaten to the point of exhaustion and maybe they both realize the errors of their ways without further destruction to one another. As nice as this scenario sounds, I don’t think it’ll happen, at least not this way. Maybe they both end up destroying each other without a proper resolution… I wouldn’t put it passed Ms. Ichikawa, honestly. So, this scenario, if it were to happen, can either end satisfyingly or unsatisfyingly.

The second possibility is that Dia wins. I find this more likely to happen because Dia has the advantage of the moon people and Bort having a messed-up arm. Anyways, I picture that Dia would win over Bort, finally ‘proving’ to themselves that they are better than Bort and is a ‘true diamond’ afterall... they finally ‘won’...to only realize they aren’t happy. They still felt empty. Wouldn’t that be both satisfying and unsatisfying? This whole build with Dia and Bort, after years of self-inflicted feelings of worthlessness, for Dia to win…to only realize that it was pointless. I kind of hope that we get a scenario like this because it’ll force Dia to acknowledge that Bort, as much as they may hate/love him, isn’t the one who’s holding them back. They’re in charge of their own happiness and blaming Bort for their misery was nonsensical and dumb.

The third possibility is that Bort would win but I definitely don’t think Ms. Ichikawa will have this happen. Regardless of how I’d feel, I think its safe to say that Bort is most likely not going to survive this fight. If he did, then it would honestly be quite pointless for both his and Dia’s character development. Who knows, though? Maybe something like this will happen but with more twists? Anything can happen with this series…

Either way, I don’t think Bort or Dia are going to get out of this fight unscathed. It’ll end up with both becoming completely broken physically and/ or mentally. (And to a degree, they both kinda deserve it. A lot. For various reasons.)

Final thoughts:

I’m glad to see I’m not alone when it comes to this character. Dia is anything but perfect or even morally good. Their character is more than the cute, soft, nice girly archetype; they have layers with many negative traits, including pettiness and selfishness, and these traits are shared by many of the other characters in this series. I know I say this a lot, but I can’t think of many characters in this series that are truly good or bad, black or white; everyone are various shades of gray and I think that makes for a fascinating story. And while Dia isn’t one of my favorite characters in this series, seeing them shed become unhinged after everything that happened is really fascinating and I can’t wait to see what’ll happen next.

Sigh, these dang gems…if only they knew how to communicate with each other! So many conflicts would’ve been resolved! But nope: they’d rather ignore the problem and let it fester or they let their emotions take over and go straight to violence without properly trying to resolve anything. Man, I love all of these characters, but they can give me such a headache…

And though a happy ending for all is out of reach, I still have hope that all of them. The moon and earth gems, the Admirabilis, the moon people (minus Aechmea) and most of all, Phos, deserve happiness. How will this happen? I don’t know… we’ll see.

#houseki no kuni #land of the lustrous #hnk spoilers #hnk spoiler #hnk chapter 86 #hnk thoughts #hnk diamond #hnk bortz #HNK theory #character analysis #i stan happiness #for everyone #except aechmea

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hudscnwilliams · 4 years

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ooc: alright, so hudson does want macbeth, although who knows if he actually mentally would be right for that right now considering the whole murder bit. i think truthfully, he just wants one opportunity to shine, considering he thinks he probably won’t have much of a career after this. this is his big chance to show how talented he is. he’s also, of course, grappling with covering up orson’s murder and so that’s left him in a rough spot right now. so, he honestly has more he should be worrying about than macbeth. given the fact that he knows he was going to be the lead, though, it would probably make him sad and maybe a little bit bitter towards whoever does get macbeth if he doesn’t.

i think he’s been able to shut off some of his emotions this week and compartmentalize it all. he will have to confront his feelings at some point, but right now, he can focus on this audition. that’s why he goes in so well prepared and performs well. he’s ignoring how stressed, scared, and upset he is in favor of focusing on iago’s maliciousness. love that for him.

in terms of roles, i think he would prefer macbeth first, and then malcolm, then macduff or maybe even lady macbeth if that’s a thing that could be possible. then banquo or the witches or one of the other thanes. but also, casting could completely not go his way! who knows!

the lights in the theatre felt too bright, and the stage too warm. maybe that was just hudson’s nerves talking, though. auditions always took a lot out of him. he spent the week leading up to them pouring over his monologue, working on analyzing it from beginning to end, and making sure all of his character choices made sense. and in the past, it had always been for nothing. he had spent so long stressing himself out, hoping that perhaps this would be the audition that made orson give him a lead, but he was always left playing the understudy.

heidi had said that wouldn’t necessarily be the case this time, but hudson had his doubts. what was the point in getting his hopes up if she just went with the obvious casting choices orson would make?

and yet, well...his hopes were up, a bit. more than hudson would like to admit. maybe this time would be different. maybe this time, someone would see that he was talented and hard working and deserved to be the lead role. maybe, just maybe, he would be macbeth.

he wanted it badly. the chance to take center stage, and pour his heart out completely, to open himself up and be raw and vulnerable in ways he’d never been able to before. but did he deserve it? after all, what sort of future did he have after this, anyway? he couldn’t afford to move to new york or london, and unless he impressed some sort of casting agent who came to see their last show, he doubted anyone would be itching to cast him in anything once he left school considering the roles he’d played here at alderidge. maybe it would be better if mathias, jonah or teddy were able to add it to their resume.

but...but was that really fair? all three of them had had moments to shine over the last three semesters. whether it be as the dashing hero, the handsome young lover, or the wicked villain, they had made an impression. they had been center stage. they had been memorable.

maybe someone else should get a turn, just this once. and why shouldn’t it be hudson? after all, he had learned his lines and their’s for three semesters. he had learned all of their blocking, all of their motivations, all of their research. he’d dived deep into so many character, only to never get to show his work to an audience. maybe, he deserved the chance to prove that orson had been right in finally casting him as the lead.

orson...he couldn’t think about that right now. no, if he let orson get in his head - or if he let himself think too much about that night, and the things he had done to protect teddy - he would never be able to do this. and hudson deserved to be able to get through this. he had done bad things, and he didn’t really believe he was a good person anymore, but he did deserve to have one last good audition.

he deserved the chance to show heidi that he was better than a small part with a handful of lines.

waiting was agony, more so than it had been in the past. the stakes were high now, higher than they ever had been before. hudson was ready to rise to the challenge, though.

finally, from heidi, “hudson williams.”

he squared his shoulders, taking a moment to breathe before standing and walking towards the stage. he wasn’t confident or cocky as much as he was poised; he was self-assured. he could do this. hudson could show heidi that he could play someone as complex as macbeth, he just needed to focus.

standing center stage, hudson stared out into the house, his eyes well-above the blurred face of his new director. she waited patiently, allowing hudson a moment to center himself.

“i’m hudson williams, and i’m auditioning for the role of macbeth. i’ll be performing iago’s soliloquy from othello. act two, scene three.” he announced with a smile, giving heidi a moment to write that down. then, he got into character, and hudson disappeared. in his place was the confident iago.

“and what’s he then that says i play the villain?” he asked curiously, an eyebrow raised in challenge. he knew the answer already. “when this advice is free i give and honest, probal to thinking and indeed the course to win the moor again?”

the key to playing iago was in grounding him, hudson knew. he had never played the role himself, but he had seen enough productions to know how easy it was to turn him into some sort of fantastical, animated villain. rather than leaning into the mustache twirling, or maniacal laughter, hudson instead chose to make him feel real. he walked calmly downstage right, allowing this moment to be just between himself and the audience.

“for ’tis most easy th' inclining desdemona to subdue in any honest suit. she’s framed as fruitful as the free elements.” desdemona was sweet; she had a good heart. iago didn’t necessarily see this as a fault, but he did see it as a ways of manipulating her and others. desdemona meant nothing to him - she was a means to an end. so why should he care about her feelings?

“and then for her to win the moor, were to renounce his baptism, all seals and symbols of redeemèd sin, his soul is so enfettered to her love that she may make, unmake, do what she list, even as her appetite shall play the god with his weak function.” hudson as iago didn’t allow judgement to enter his tone until he spoke of othello. desdemona was innocent, and that made it easy to bend her to his will. that was the trick to getting rid of othello, who had cost iago so much. othello deserved what was coming to him. hudson smirked slightly, unable to stop himself.

iago did not consider himself the villain of this story. he was a man who was over looked and cast aside in the past, and now it was his time to take what he wanted by whatever means necessary. macbeth would surely approve of his ambition and passion, for he himself had those qualities. hudson did not, although he didn’t allow his own thoughts to shine through. iago wasn’t conflicted; he didn’t need hudson’s own morality to make an appearance today.

“how am i then a villain to counsel cassio to this parallel course, directly to his good?” the advice he had given cassio in the scene before this soliloquy wasn’t wrong or bad; it would actually help him. appealing to desdemona in order to regain favor with othello was a good plan. it just wouldn’t end well for cassio or desdemona, if iago had his say. iago, ever the intellect, used the fact that the advice was sound in order to prove to the audience that he wasn’t a villain. he was a character saturated in grays, full of moral ambiguity.

“divinity of hell.” hudson scoffed, his emotions bubbling under the surface. he wouldn’t give himself away, though; he could control himself.

“when devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest at first with heavenly shows as i do now.” he was aware that his plan would hurt people. however, iago didn’t really care. it wouldn’t hurt him - and othello deserved to be hurt, in his mind. in order to make things right for himself, he had to go through with his plan.

did the ends justify the means? to iago, they did. hudson didn’t have a good answer for that. if you had asked him a year ago, he would have told you no. but now, after the things that he had done? well...maybe he did agree with iago on that. a little bit. he pushed forward, crossing to downstage center.

“for whiles this honest fool plies desdemona to repair his fortune and she for him pleads strongly to the moor, i’ll pour this pestilence into his ear: that she repeals him for her body’s lust.” he would convince othello, who trusted him and believed in him, that desdamona was unfaithful to him. that she loved cassio, and was repulsed by othello. it didn’t matter that it was a lie. “and by how much she strives to do him good, she shall undo her credit with the moor. so will i turn her virtue into pitch and out of her own goodness make the net that shall enmesh them all.”

ruining othello would be easy. casting doubt upon those he loved would make him insecure, and that would bring about his downfall.

yes, iago was the villain. he was evil and cruel and greedy, but hudson refused to let him see that in himself. he was justified. iago was only taking back what was owed to him; if he hadn’t been mistreated in the past, then this wouldn’t be happening.

it was a dark thought, and hudson wasn’t sure he liked going to that place in his own mind. he had been able to separate the character from his own life this week by refusing to think too much about his own experiences. and, truly, he himself wasn’t an iago. maybe there were things that he deserved that weren’t his, but he wouldn’t manipulate someone into ruining themselves for a role.

that wasn’t him.

perhaps that had helped with compartmentalizing all of this. iago was a character. a rich, layered character, but a character all the same. iago was not hudson; hudson was not iago.

hudson wasn’t macbeth, either, though he could certainly play him.

macbeth was a man who let his ambitions run wild. that was his downfall. hudson? he had ambitions too, although he would never let them hurt those he cared about in the way that macbeth did. he would never hurt teddy the way macbeth killed banquo in order to remain king. nonetheless, his ambitions were real. he wanted more than this - more than bit parts, more than a handful of lines, more than always being the second, third, fourth choice for roles. he craved more.

maybe that would be his downfall one day too.

dropping out of character and returning to himself, hudson glanced back into the audience and gave heidi a small, almost shy smile. he hoped he had done enough to impress her. his performance had certainly contained more passion than usual. hudson had breathed life into iago, giving the role his all in a way he hadn’t always been able to achieve in the past.

“thank you, hudson.” heidi offered him an unreadable smile. he nodded, turning to leave the theatre.

he had done his best. that was all he could do.

#ensembletask #{ task | 001 }#{ i've been silent for too long | self paras }#murder tw #i will STOP EDITING and finally post it #final word count is 1802 so i'm so sorry everyone #settle in for more hudson rambles

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ordinaryfander · 5 years

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The new video sure was something, uh

So, as usual I'm here to brag about the newest video. This time, I'm going to analyze "Dealing with INTRUSIVE THOUGHTS", and it's a long analysis/theory, so be patient with me.

This will majorly center around Remus and "the Others", so beware! (I'm so happy I don't have to call them Dark Sides anymore, it was never fair)

I wrote many points to consider, and each one will take quite a bit. With that, let's begin!

1) So:

[ 1) Remus: Who he is, what he does, why he's there ]

I think we can all agree that his debut was a surprise, especially because most of us were expecting the "Green Side" to be associated with something like Envy, or Greed, since dark green is sometimes associated with money.

However, we got Remus, aka Intrusive Thoughts, which I think is, in my opinion, the best option they could face.

So: he is Thomas' nasty thoughts, the evil, twisted fantasies, and he keeps Thomas' awake at night with dark ideas, he gives him the worst thoughts to deal with, things Thomas is deeply troubled to think of, because as Logan said, his catholic beliefs instilled in him that thought is the precursor of action.

Remus is there, and why is he there?

The fun thing is: I don't think he's there to be "useful". Later I'll explain where I think his Character Arc is going to go, but Remus really doesn't have any reason to be there except that intrusive thoughts are something absolutely everyone deals with. You all have to consider that, even if those are Thomas' Sides, they're also everyone's Sides. We all have Logic, Creativity, Morality, Anxiety, and we all lie (I'll return to that).

And this traits help us live with eveyday life?

But intrusive thoughts? They just majorly upset us, and worsen our view of ourselves, but we all still have them.

However, I'm really happy with this choice, because Thomas is starting to really show what I've been screaming since Deceit's debut: things are not black and white, and he is NOT a completely good person, because NO ONE is, not 100%. We can act like good people and sincerely mean to do good, but we're still gonna have dark, horrible thoughts. And, as Thomas' said, that's ok. Those thoughts don't make you a bad person if you don't act on them, but you should consider a therapist/psychiatrist if they bother you too much. There's no shame in that, too: please, reach out for help, if needed.

[ 2) Remus' relationships with: Roman, Deceit, and Virgil ]

- Remus' relationship with Roman

At 35:50, it's officially and definitely confirmed that Remus and Roman are brothers, probably even twins.

A moment after the Duke disappears, Roman says "I don't like him".

Thomas goes, at Roman: "So, you have a brother?"

And Roman clearly is uncomfortable with it: "Yeah... It's a little like looking into a fun-house mirror. But instead of a giant head, or, like, long legs or a tiny torso... It shows you everything you don't want to be."

Thomas answers: "That doesn't sound like a very funny house"

And Roman: "Yeah... Uhh, whatever, y'know-? (...)"

Roman and Remus obviously don't get along, but we understood that the moment Remus knocked out Roman with that weapon I don't know the name of (sorry rip, don't focus on this :'))

Roman considers himself a dashing Disney Prince, a knight in shining armor, an example of bravery and justice, while Remus is pure chaotic evil. He doesn't care what other people think and his idea of fun and fantasy is twisted, and he isn't afraid of Roman and his sword in the slightest. They're opposites.

Unluckily we didn't get much brotherly interactions or interactions at all, so there's no much to say, but those two have a whole damn lot to work through.

The question that many have been asking is: do Roman and Remus share a room?

The answer is: I honestly don't know. It would be a complete and utter mess that Roman would hate to have to share. Time will tell.

- Remus' relationship with Deceit

We haven't even seen them interacting on screen, but we already know so damn much about it.

WAY BACK in "Can LYING Be Good?", this was said about Deceit:

Roman: "If you really don't want to know something, he (Deceit) can keep our moutjs shut."

And Logan immediately goes "You don't want to believe it. That's where his (Deceit's) power comes from. Things that you want to believe. Things that you wish were true. And things that you wish weren't."

And later:

Deceit is able to shut up the Sides, but he's also able to hide them. That's what he did with Remus, he kept him locked away.

I've always been rooting for morally gray/sympathetic Deceit, but I'll try to stay neutral on this: though, I really believe that Deceit was trying to protect Thomas.

Remus is... A lot, to say the least. He's pure chaos, and isn't useful or helpful (for now) and doesn't even care to be. Deceit, on the other side, really cares about Thomas, and he showed that in many ways: he just cares about Thomas in his own way. Missing the callback of SVS still hurts Thomas after all this time, and I already explained why Deceit tried his best to do what was good for Thomas in court (https://ordinaryfander.tumblr.com/post/183871155711/thomas-shouldve-gone-to-do-the-callback-he).

I also said, tho, that in SVS Deceit was frustrated to no end because the other Sides weren't listening to him.

Look how confused he is at Patton's words.

You know why? Because Thomas thinks what he says. Thomas lies, and Deceit is there to prove it.

But they didn't listen to Deceit, but Deceit isn't like Virgil: Virgil waited lots of episodes to be listened to until he finally ducked out.

Deceit straight up released Thomas' worst thoughts because Thomas had to face in the most hard way that he is n o t a completely honest person. Deceit just got really pissed and went: "You know what? I'm useful, you need me and I'll prove it."

And he just did that. He straight up released Remus, Thomas' worst thoughts, on them. Deceit is the only one who could do that, and you know why he did?

Remus: "Thomas, speaking of knowledge; recently a snake offered me a morsel from the tree of knowledge. He said you're wanting to be more honest and be direct dealing with your issues, no longer will you deceive yourself about the ugliness within you, me!"

Deceit smacked in the face Thomas with Remus, so Thomas could get the point. I think he did. "If you don't want to lie to yourself, at least face who you really are"

About Remus and Deceit alone...

I don't think Deceit really likes Remus. Deceit is kinda goofy, but he's also sophisticated, charming, a silver-tongue. Remus is a stinky garbage man.

Deceit wants to protect Thomas' reputation, Remus would destroy it. Probably Remus likes Deceit (I think he likes everyone, he doesn't care), but Deceit doesn't really reciprocate the feeling. I could surely be proven wrong, those are just my points.

- Remus' relationship with Virgil

Boy oh boy.

Well, the video already said what I could'be said: Virgil dislikes Remus, he doesn't trust him, but he's also not as scared of him anymore like he used to be.

Virgil, at Remus (32:27): "I thought you were some... Horrible illness. Now I can see that you're just a common cold, a mild inconvenience that's gone before you know it."

And Remus looks at him like this:

That's not a evil look. He's soft, almost proud.

He isn't even offended. He just goes "Eheh, you tickle me, emo."

And Virgil has one blink-and-you-miss-it-moment when he genuinely smiles.

I think he did somehow used to like (platonically y'all) Remus, even if he was scared of him. They were still... Friends, maybe, at some point. Deceit and Virgil never had such a kind-of-sweet moment, even if just a few seconds long, and even if the Duke and Virgil still are not likely to get along in general and for the time being. The Duke's phrase about Old Times wasn't a welcomed one by Virgil.

I don't wanna dig in too much else, we already know that Virgil doesn't still trust the Duke. That was just some looks I noticed that stuck with me.

Also, I won't ignore the fragment revelead his name and said: "Of course (I told you, Thomas), I would never hide anything to you." And it cuts right off to Virgil. Eh. Busted.

- How Will His Character Arc Go?

That one is the most important question.

Everyone is gonna believe what they will, but I don't think he'll get... Sympathetic, even? He's just pure chaos.

Maybe his Arc will entangle with a Roman new one, maybe his Arc will entangle with Deceit's. I do hope that Thomas and co. will now value Deceit better, he really isn't that bad... At least, not compared to Remus.

Deceit shut up Logan guys, but Remus straight up murdered him. Even if they can't literally die, y'all really can't close a whole eye on that.

So I just think he's gonna stay around and do mischief, but will surely get some sort of development related to other characters. I'm almost sure he won't get a Solo Arc, surely not for now. However, I'm pretty sure they'll get back to talk how to manage him, and how he can become more useful.

- Conclusions and predictions for the next video

Honestly, sorry this was messier than my normal analysis/theory posts, but I don't fully know how to take Remus yet.

Y'all see, the moment I knew Deceit I made my mind up: he's morally gray, he has a purpose, he has to get credit for it.

Remus confused me in every possible way. He's chaos. I'm sure we won't see him in the next video, but I predict maybe Deceit will be in it, just to look how good of a job he's done.

And that's pretty much it. I hope you all have a good time :>

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sometimesrosy · 5 years

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b/e still together at this point is laughable, we have just 1 season left, how can bellarke be together when b/e is still a thing, if jason make them endgame, is gonna be the biggest mistake ever after game of thrones ending,tell me what's the point? we know where bellamy heart is, so why keep draging this, make bellarke a thing already man, is gonna be the last season, people been waiting for that to happen years, and now we are just gonna have a couple of episodes of them as couple.

Okay, so this is an old ask and i’ve been holding it FOREVER. Today I have the brain power to tackle it, and there’s a reason why I kept it, instead of deleting it as a pointless anti, myopic view point. It was now asked so long ago that I’m hoping the anon doesn’t get pissed off when I rip it apart and break it down to its pieces. So let’s go.

These kind of questions frustrate me, because they are ALMOST there. The question here is, “We know where Bellamy’s heart is, so why keep dragging this?”

That is a valid question. And by “valid” I mean that by answering the question, you can gain a better understanding of the story.

But instead of attempting to answer it, or asking more questions related to it to help you think more, the anon jumps to an unsubstantiated conclusion and then goes on a tirade. The conclusions she makes, that it is laughable, b/e is endgame and/or there will only be a couple of episodes of bellarke, None of those conclusions follow in answer to the question or the canon. What they follow is the fear that the anon won’t get what they want.

So instead of answering the fear, I’m answering the question.

WHY when we know where Bellamy’s heart is, does the story keep dragging this?

First off, it’s not a joke. It’s a story. Delaying the resolution is a sign that Bellamy achieving his hearts desire (Clarke) is actually The Story. A story is about the main character (aka hero aka protagonist,) overcoming their obstacles, learning and growing, and then, achieving their goals. Not only is it The Story, but it’s also a romantic story. In a romance, the goal is to get the heroes together, if that happens too soon, something needs to happen to break them apart, so they can find each other again. But once a couple reaches their goal of getting together, then the story is over. WHY haven’t Bellarke gotten together? Because when they do, the heart of the story is done. When JR said, “The 100 is ending in s7″ I said HURRAH because that is a sign that they are ready to tell the end of the story. Which is... what now? Say it with me, BELLARKE, THE EPIC LOVE STORY.

This isn’t fanfiction, that can ignore storytelling or narrative rules, or all the other narrative threads, or the focus on character development, in order to fulfill the readers’ narrative desires. In order to make a good story, they have to keep telling ALL the stories that they’ve laid out before us. And that includes b/e (which is still working,) echo’s character arc (still working,) Octavia (a story which is near done,) the Blakes reunion (which we did,) and the strange interweaving of the head, the heart and the soul that is Clarke, Bellamy and Octavia (which may not be over until the end.) We also have to work through Bellamy’s self loathing (which we did,) Bellamy’s hero’s journey, (which we did,) Bellamy’s anger at Clarke leaving him to die (which we did,) ALSO Clarke’s suicidal tendencies (which we did,) Clarke’s feeling that love was a weakness (which we did,) Clarke’s isolation (which we did,) Clarke’s feelings of betrayal that Bellamy moved on (which we did,) Clarke’s separation from her people (which we did.) ALSO, and this one might be the most important one and the answer to the original question.

The story kept dragging out because season 6 was the season that BELLAMY realized where his heart was. Maybe WE knew all along, but this was something he was resisting. He said he didn’t NEED her, but he realized over the course of Season 6 that he needed her more than ANYTHING. You see?

Clarke is his weakness and his strength. She’s his vulnerability. And he had his walls up against that because he lost her for six years and the whole time, she was still with him and still his weakness and his vulnerability and when she came back, she pushed him away, and away, and when he thought he was getting her back, she left him to die. At the end of season 5, he found out she DID care for him, and that changed things for him, but then...she called him family and went with Cillian. She has now told him she needed/wanted him THREE times and THREE times immediately turned to someone else. Lxa, Niylah, Cillian. Granted, he turned her down twice and had a girlfriend the third. But Bellamy thinks she doesn’t love him, ever since she said she couldn’t lose him and then sent him to die because it was worth the risk. Because he didn’t understand that it meant she loved him and love was a weakness.

And I’ll tell you. THAT story hasn’t been finished yet. We had mutual pining in s4-5-6. But neither of them have told their feelings to each other. No I take that back. Clarke has told him, but he has misunderstood every time, I think because he doesn’t believe her and think it means something else, especially since she hooks up with someone else after she says it. And she takes all those misunderstandings of Bellamy’s as a rejection, and is sure he doesn’t feel the same about her. Season 2. Season 3. Season 4. Season 5. Season 6. We’ve seen this story happening. She thinks of love as a weakness and so puts up walls to him and turns to other people. HE thinks that means she doesn’t love him. We’re finally getting to the point that they’re ready to admit their feelings. He said he needed her. I NEED YOU.

So. Like. The reason why they’re dragging the Bellarke story out is because there is so much to TELL. There are all these supporting storylines that are building Clarke and Bellamy individually, making them stronger and more whole, healing them, making them HEROES. These individual stories are making them worthy of each other. And proving to us that their love is so strong, so epic, so central to the characters and the story, that it not only persists in the face of time, death and space, but also in the face of rival ships. No love on this show surpasses the love of Clarke and Bellamy, not even the parent/child or sibling love. HOWEVER, the Bellarke love actually makes Clarke and Bellamy stronger, and ALSO saves Madi, comforts Clarke when she loses her mother, and allows Bellamy to reconnect with Octavia.

I’m not gonna lie. I wanted to see Bellarke as an established couple, a battle couple, even domestic. That is not the story being told. That is a different story with different tropes and conventions and rules. I thought maybe book two could be that story, but nope. Still an epic romance in the apocalypse as we watch our heroes find out what is worth living for and it turns out it’s each other.

The story being told is an epic love story in the apocalypse. A mythic love. A morally gray story of heroes who both save and redeem humanity. A tragedy about trauma and healing. That’s my take on it. If you view the entire story through this lens, a lot of the things that confused the audience while they were happening make a lot more sense.

If a theory can explain a story, and not leave out any of the narrative threads, and keeps working to explain the story that happens AFTER the theory was made, then that’s a sign that this is a theory that is on the right track in understanding the story.

If a theory is jossed by canon, that means the theory didn’t work. It doesn’t mean the canon did it wrong or is a joke. It means the theorist was wrong, because the author gets to tell the story they want, and speculation is not their story. If you speculate the story to go in the direction YOU want, that’s your story not theirs. If you’re trying to predict the story the creator tells, you have to know what story the creator is telling. That means you have to understand it.

If a theory leaves large parts of the story without an explanation or writes them off as “bad writing” or “plot holes” when they can be explain through another theory, then the theorist has failed. If a theorist calls the canon that goes off their theory a joke, or laughable, without trying to answer their unanswered questions by looking at the canon and trying to figure it out... then the theorist has failed. If a theorist assumes that the writer and story is a joke because the theorist is predicting that the writer is bad and will “ruin” the story though they have no evidence that is happening, then the theorist is a bad theorist with unexamined biases who is jumping to conclusions that are not supported and attacking creators for doing something that they have not done. Very disrespectful. Very illogical. Very non canon. Very bad meta. Sorry.

You can have strong feelings about canon, but if you don’t understand canon and your feelings are based on your inaccurate understanding, then your opinion is kinda crap. You’re blaming the show for being something that it is not, and it’s all because you’re not interested in what it IS, only in your fantasy... when your analysis should be of JR’S fantasy. That’s what fiction is, a deliberate, constructed fantasy. The better they are at it, the more the pieces will all fit together. This story is novelistic in it’s structure and narrative and development. There’s a lot to deconstruct and analyze, and all the pieces fit together. Despite a few things that are unsatisfactory, the main relationship story (bellarke) is not.

When I have theories that turn out to be wrong, I don’t say the story is wrong. I say I was wrong. Then I backtrack to where my theory started, figure out what I read wrong, and reframe my theories based on the new direction of the story. The point of analysis is not to be right. It’s to understand the story that someone else is telling.

Let me tell you which theory of mine has NEVER been wrong.

That Bellarke is endgame, that they MUST be together.

It has not always been expressed in romantic terms, but each season it has gotten MORE romantic, which is what we call DEVELOPMENT. Side ships have NOT stopped this. Fandom tends to think CL and B/E are more of an obstacle than actual space, actual time, and actual death. LOL. Nope. CL was passionate and burnt out in a conflagration. B/E is comforting and currently in a slow fizzle as it burns out. On screen. In canon fights and bickering, physical and emotional distance, parallel letting go, Echo’s story of independence, finding herself and ultimate (my theory) breaking free from her king. Who is, in canon, Bellamy.

it’s not laughable. It is a well developed story.

Now someone tell me why people would rather have a short break up with no meaning behind it and a hookup into smooshing faces finally, instead of what we’re getting, which is an indepth story of growth, understanding, love, passion, need, self identity, self worth, redemption, longing, and reunion.

HE BROUGHT HER BACK FROM DEATH WITH ONLY THE POWER OF HIS LOVE FOR GODSAKE.

I suspect that people are the most frustrated with the story being told because all they want is boning. Because this romance is FANTASTIC, but boning we have not gotten.

Or they’ve been gaslighted by a fandom who’s been telling us we’re delusional all these years. We’re not delusional. This story is real. If I were delusional, my theory that I came up with after Hakeldama-- endgame Bellarke, the head and the heart, together-- would have been jossed a long time ago. But it hasn’t been. It’s not only still going, it’s MORE important now than it was before. :)

Bellarke are the head and the heart. They’re not only still alive (remember how every season we had a panic that clarke and/or bellamy would die? nope,) but soulmates, who have found each other again, and need each other, and can’t lose each other. Bellarke are the center of the story. And if it were platonic, then we would have more story with B/E being a ship that fulfills Bellamy, because as the heart to clarke’s head, his HEART needs that connection, instead when he’s being torn apart emotionally, whether over octavia or clarke, Echo CAN NOT offer him comfort. I’d also like to say, that if CL were the center of the story, then, it would actually be a story, instead of just a mention here and there. It’s important, but not the center of the story. That’s Bellarke. That’s why all the stories revolved around them. Why season 5 was about the Bellarke reunion (and blakes) and why season 6 was about Bellamy saving Clarke with his love, and then Clarke saving everyone with what she learned about love from Bellamy.

I was entirely wrong about the speed with which we would reach romantic Bellarke. My bad.I don’t particularly CHOOSE such slow burns. I read that wrong. But I never backed down from romantic soulmates because it was never taken off the table. The longing was always there even when they were separated, were in love with other people, or were furious at each other. And because of that, it could NEVER be platonic. Other fans thought the arrival of canon b/e was the death of bellarke, but what I saw was them framing B/E as a ROMANTIC OBSTACLE to Bellarke. And that was confirmation to me that Bellarke was a romantic story and they were going in that direction with the soulmate connection. And EVERYTHING that happened, from 2199 calls, was a romance story. Not platonic. PINING. LOVE TRIANGLE. SLOW BURN TRUE LOVE. HE NEEDS HER AND BROUGHT HER BACK FROM DEATH WITH A KISS.

IT IS GLORIOUS. I am so sorry that you’re missing it. But y’all need to shut up with your whining. It’s annoying.

#the 100 #bellarke #epic love story #i don't have a lot of asks now so i can really dig in when i want to #long post #ha ha

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