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jinwoosungs · 24 days

Text

{ 137 }

like you do.

jinwoo sung x fem.reader

notes: this story is going to get so meta, so my apologies in advance. also, despite my status of requests being technically closed, this one was too good to ignore. full request description and story under the cut ♡

p.s. - listen to joji’s like you do.

{ and everyone else… they don't matter now | you're the one i can't lose | no one loves me like you do… }

anonymous said: Thank you for answeringgggg. This gonna be long. Be ready to get bored✨🫶 I keep thinking about your Jinwoo post. The divergent one to be exactly. What I've been thinking is kinda similar theme. What about, a reader who's always there for Jinwoo but not visible? Like she's a system or a quiet constellation that supports him from behind but under shadow. In the early chapter when Jinwoo is running out of coffee. Suddenly he found a thermos inside his bag with a warm coffee. He didn't remember to prepare it, but since it was already inside his bag maybe Jin-ah put it in or he forgot, but it was the readers! Another chance, readers always help him in silence like, sometimes heal him a little by little, didn't want make a big question mark if he suddenly fully healed in a sec right? Helping to take care of Jin-ah and his mom whenever he's not there for them, healing the resident when war so there's no much loss happen and many little things that she do to help him. She gets jealous seeing him asking Hae-in to the amusement park, but what she can do though, she just loves him too much to be happy for him to find love. In the end, when he reaches his happy ending, the reader finds the courage to say goodbye. Whispering to Jinwoo's ear softly, saying goodbye and hoping he'll be happy. Then it felt like a snap for Jinwoo. It's... Warm, it's felt like it's always there, the reasons able to fight every problem and challenge, then it's gone, he doesn't feel complete anymore. This time for Jinwoo for searching readers! 📸📸 Sorry if my English is not good, it's not my first language 😔😔. Just want to drop this idea instead let it run around my mind and make me crazy to thinking Jinwoo and his readers who are always there🫶🫶🫶 Love you, my top list favorite person❤️❤️😼

{ ... }

it was pathetic, really.

sung jinwoo wasn't even someone that existed-

so why was it that your heart raced each time you would see his achingly handsome features against your phone's screen?

why does your heart continue to pound and fill your chest with butterflies with each new volume of solo leveling that came out?

and why did you have to get so jealous, witnessing the pure love jinwoo had in his eyes for cha hae-in?

it was so obvious that you were in love with him; genuinely in love with him despite how he would never be real.

in reality, you were bit of an introverted person, attending university with your head bowed down in a manner that let your peers know that you were closed off and shy. that you never could find the confidence to be your true self while in front of those who didn't know you.

perhaps that was why your heart was so drawn to a character like sung jinwoo. after all, he started out as being known as the weakest in the world; a meek and timid man who hid his anxieties behind a kind smile.

but you loved him all the same.

even when knowing he would never be able to see you-

or how you would never get to feel the safety of his arms around you-

or see the passion in his glowing eyes each time he would protect you from danger.

it would never be a reality for you-

yet still, you cherished jinwoo deeply,

like a lover would.

so, you spend your days reading stories pertaining to him, inserting yourself within these various daydreams as you tricked your heart into believing that he loved you, too.

after all, it was the one thing you could do to assuage the heartache you constantly felt whenever you saw jinwoo chasing after hae-in, even after he reset everything in order to protect the world.

even if you could never be his true lover, no matter how hard you tried to shift into his reality and be with him.

with a heavy heart while being surrounded by the various volumes of solo leveling, you lay still in your bed and put your phone down. you had finished re-reading the side stories that pertained to jinwoo's life after the reset and how his shadow soldiers were so happy that he found hae-in again-

and you had to stop because you felt your throat closing up due to the heartache and jealousy of it all.

feeling the warm tears streaming down your face, you close your eyes and fall into what you hoped would be a dreamless slumber-

only to be proven wrong the moment you lost your consciousness.

{ ... }

[ ... resetting ... ]

[ ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ]

[ now loading ]

[ SUNG JINWOO'S GUARDIAN ]

a strange sensation was felt coursing through your veins, and you awaken with a gasp, feeling your heart pounding as your eyes take in the scenery that surrounds you.

it takes you a minute to reorient yourself, with you standing shakily on your two feet, wiping the sleep from your eyes. you were dimly aware of the translucent screens that block your periphery. but... you weren't paying attention to that.

you allow your eyes to look around, widening upon feeling the sudden nostalgia that fills you. somehow... you knew that you recognized this city. but something felt... off.

for starters, the colors were so much brighter than what you were used to. it was as though the city were made by an artist who was passionate about their drawings coming to life. as you were left feeling awed, all while wondering why this all looked familiar to you was when you finally realized-

you were in seoul, south korea-

specifically, the seoul that was the main setting for solo leveling.

you felt the air rushing out of your lungs in labored puffs, your heart seeming to palpitate out of your chest when you allow your eyes to look in front of you, finally seeing the translucent screen and its message:

[ the system welcomes you... ]

"i... can you understand me?" you were speaking to the screen, feeling your heart jump against your chest when another message appears.

[ yes. i have chosen you to help with the development of the future shadow monarch. ]

you recognize jinwoo's title, ready to say something had it not been for the fact that you saw sung jinwoo himself running past you. your heart was caught in the confines of your throat, seeing jinwoo who had yet been awakened.

even with his frumpy appearance and lackluster clothes, your heart still managed to race for him. his grey eyes was much softer now, not attaining the edge of his post-awakened self quite yet. he was uncertain and shy, but you knew that deep down he had a heart of gold that wanted nothing more than to care for and protect his mother and little sister.

that was the sole trait that never changed-

and you loved him for it.

filled with a longing to be with him, to reach out and touch him, you didn't even think twice when you extended your hands out to him. you wanted so badly to touch his shoulder and tell him how everything was going to be okay-

that all of his dreams (and more) would come true as long as he remained vigilant and brave throughout each trial and tribulations he had to face-

yet the moment your hand was place on his shoulder, you felt it pass through him…

your eyes became wide once more, looking down at your hands as you saw that they were also translucent. that your appearance seemed to mimic that of static itself, not quite taking a physical form despite how much you knew that you existed in this realm.

[ i am sorry, but i cannot have your existence meddle with the monarch's story. ]

you turn your gaze back to the screens-

back to the system's way of communicating with you.

[ however, i do know that your heart and soul are pure, and that your feelings for sung jinwoo remain true. ]

[ so i will grant you your desire of helping him. the system i have made for you is deeply tied to sung jinwoo. whatever item you wish to give him shall appear as the young man continues to level up. ]

[ do you agree to remain as SUNG JINWOO'S GUARDIAN? ]

"...yes."

your voice suddenly became much stronger now, being filled with a determination that you didn't believe was even possible. just the thought that you were given this chance to be close to jinwoo was enough to bring you an immense amount of joy.

"i accept being his guardian... and helping him whenever he is in need."

[ ... very well. go on and carry out your first mission. ]

with one last nod, you await the system's next message as it read.

[ MISSION 1: FOLLOW SUNG JINWOO TO THE FIRST GATE; CONSTRUCTION SITE ]

already knowing the scene that was meant to play out, you keep your gaze honed in on jinwoo as he quickly crossed the street, with you chasing after him.

your movements were fluid, and you were so happy that the system gave you the ability to fly, allowing you to keep track of jinwoo and where he currently was at all times. you bask in such freedom of flight and stopped when you reached the construction sight.

as if flight came as natural as breathing to you, you gently land next to jinwoo, seeing his forlorn gaze each time the older hunters insulted him, referring him to the weakest in the world. all you wanted to do was comfort him, and despite how you knew he would never feel you-

you couldn't stop yourself from wrapping your arms around him.

"it's okay, you will become stronger. and... i will be with you every step of the way." you say while keeping your arms hovered over his shoulders, your lips press against his skin in a phantom kiss while whispering lovingly within his ear.

suddenly, you take notice when he perks up, grey eyes filled with a newfound determination. you weren't sure what happened, but jinwoo seemed to find a bit of confidence as he steps closer to the coffee stand and speaks to the worker.

"hi, may i have a cup of coffee?"

the worker gives him a nervous smile while giving jinwoo a gentle shake of his head.

"ah, hunter sung jinwoo... i'm sorry, all the coffee ran out just now."

you watch as a look of disappointment appears on jinwoo's face, hearing him let out a sigh as you quickly called out to the system.

"please, give me a thermos filled with warm coffee, made the way jinwoo likes it."

the system then flashes you a screen, showing you your inventory as a green thermos was seen with the words FRESH COFFEE printed below it. you reach your hand and touch at the screen, allowing the thermos to appear at the palm of your hand before disappearing completely from your inventory.

with gentle movements, you manage to move the thermos filled with hot coffee towards one of the pockets seen on jinwoo's backpack, the sudden weight and appearance of the thermos making jinwoo take a step backwards.

"what the...?!"

you stand off to the side, feeling your heart beginning to race with happiness the moment jinwoo reaches into his backpack and pulls out the warm thermos, his eyes going wide. you couldn't help but gently laugh at his bewildered expression.

he was just so cute to you.

with a smile on your face, you watch as he opens the thermos, taking a swig out of the coffee while letting out a happy sigh. "wow, just how i like it, too. maybe jinah made this for me?"

"i'm really sorry about this, hunter sung jinwoo!" the worker calls out to him, but jinwoo simply smiles back at him.

"no worries! i think my sister packed some coffee for me before she left, so it's fine!"

before you could watch jinwoo enter the gate, you were suddenly pulled back by a force, preventing you from moving forward.

[ MISSION 1, COMPLETED ]

with a look of absolute yearning, you call out to jinwoo,

"STAY STRONG AND BE BRAVE! I BELIEVE IN YOU!"

and for a brief second, before you were ripped away from this tiny portion of his life, you could have sworn that jinwoo turn around to look in your direction-

{ ... }

despite how this all felt unreal to you, you couldn't deny the sheer amount of happiness you felt, being labeled as jinwoo's guardian by the system.

in fact, you had felt so blessed, being a part of jinwoo's most prominent moments in his life.

from his second awakening, being resurrected due to the system's choosing while giving him several side quests and missions-

to helping him heal even the most grievous of injuries when he had to go against kang taeshik-

you were just so elated by it all.

never once did you leave his side, using your own system in hopes of making jinwoo's life easier.

[ COMPLETE ]

it was strange, but each mission that was given to you was tied deeply to your desire to help and protect jinwoo. whenever jinwoo had a need for a certain potion or elixir to help with replenishing his stamina or mana (especially during his earlier stages of leveling up), it would always mysteriously appear in front of him.

and during the moments where jinwoo showed his concerns for his mother and the well-being of his little sister, you would always stay behind and make sure that they were doing well. you knew that someday soon, jinwoo would make the holy water of life for his mother, but still kept watch over her to make sure that she remained undisturbed.

you kept going through the motions of his life, and once jinwoo was able to safely awaken his mother, you left jinwoo's side to give him a moment of privacy between him and her. even though you knew what would happen (burning the image of his crying face filled with relief and joy into your memories), it didn’t feel right to intrude on such an intimate moment.

yet you leaving the scene in the hospital suddenly brought you to a different part in jinwoo's life.

it had to be sometime after his mother's awakening, as jinwoo was seen dressed in all black. his hair was blowing gently with the wind as he remained seated on top of a building. his eyes were glowing, and it seemed as though he was waiting for something. you trail your gaze up towards the skies, seeing it being painted in an ominous, glowing violet hue.

you suddenly felt a strange pang against your chest, recognizing this scene as being the one that made you so jealous that it hurt.

it was the scene where jinwoo ask hae-in out to the amusement park before showing her the starry skies.

you watch with your heart clenching so painfully when he chooses cha hae-in's number and gives her a call, his voice filled with a gentle fondness as he asks if she was free. knowing what would happen in the chapter, it was clear that she would drop her training, just to be with him.

despite how you felt your throat clenching in response, you were given little time to react as the scene suddenly shifts once more, leaving your form cast to the side as you landed haphazardly against the street of the amusement park.

you could feel the heat dyed against your cheeks, finally grateful that no one could see you. you look to your front to see jinwoo and hae-in walking together, feeling your heartache reach even new levels. surrounding you were people who looked at the two hunters with awe, clearly admiring them as they stepped aside and made room for them, allowing them to walk freely around the amusement park.

if you thought reading this chapter was difficult, then your past self was dead wrong-

for witnessing this in action hurt far worse than this.

you shake your head just then, fighting back your tears as you stood back to your full height. with a determined nod, you take to the skies once more, following the future couple as they continued their endeavors within the amusement park.

you kept your focus on jinwoo, ignoring the pain in your heart each time hae-in was beside him.

like a movie playing out on the big screen, you watch as they rode every ride the amusement park had to offer. their expressions were left blank and filled with a boredom, not feeling the thrills like normal people would.

in fact, the scene was so funny and cute that you couldn't help but laugh.

after spending a few hours tailing from close behind them, you follow jinwoo and hae-in as they had lunch together.

"are you getting bored?"

"hey, no. i'm having fun."

hae-in admits to jinwoo while taking sips of her soda.

you could hear the amusement in jinwoo's voice when he asks, "then how come you haven't cried or screamed at least once?"

he sighs while playing with the straw of his own drink, resting his cheek against the palm of his hand while stating, "the games are a bit 'slow', aren't they?"

"hm, ah... yes..." there seemed to be a bit of an awkward silence when hae-in trails off.

suddenly, your heart was felt clenching once more when jinwoo gives hae-in a charming smile.

"so should we get on to something more exciting?"

her blush was evident, and you could barely breathe when the scene shifts once more.

you were back to the skies now, with jinwoo and hae-in riding on one of his shadow soldiers, a large dragon that flew across the heavens while seeming to cut through the setting sun with its shadowy wings. even as the tears were felt streaming down your face, you couldn't deny that such a scene was utterly beautiful to you.

you could not hear a single word that was being said between them, but you recall their words clearly from reading it so many times, back when your pain felt so fresh- just like an open wound against your heart.

you continue to hover above jinwoo and hae-in, allowing your tears to fall down against his cheek as his eyes seemed to widen in response.

"what... is it raining?" jinwoo trails his eyes up at the sky, and you had to move away from them as hae-in gave jinwoo a questioning glance.

"no, there are no clouds... it's not raining at all."

forcing your heart to calm down its rapid beats, you let out a shaky breath, wondering if somehow...

he could feel you after all...?

you shake your head at the thought and continue to follow them, knowing exactly where jinwoo planned to take her as the scene shifts for you once more. you watch as they arrived at a gorgeous meadow surrounded by the gentle forest, remaining up high in the sky as they admired the stars together.

"system... could you do something for me?"

[ of course. ]

you close your eyes and allow the tears to freely fall now. "summon a meteor shower... a show of the stars and heavens themselves for the lovers to enjoy."

[ as you wish. ]

you allow the system to summon a gorgeous meteor shower, hearing hae-in's gentle gasp while looking up at the stars. streaks of light trailed behind each meteor as the starry skies seemed to glow in response to the strange and ephemeral phenomena.

"it's so... beautiful."

your smile was filled with a hidden sadness, yet you couldn’t deny just how happy you felt being able to do this for him. and as you look over to see jinwoo's own reaction, you felt your heart stop in response.

for he was not looking at the skies or the falling stars-

he was looking directly at you.

"yes... beautiful."

yet before you could even speak, you saw the system's message as you were pulled away from the moment once more.

[ COMMENCING FINAL MISSION: FAREWELL ]

your heart was pounding as the tears fell freely down your face, suddenly taken to what looked like a more peaceful time.

your feet were staggering, trying to maintain your balance when you take shaky steps against the sidewalk. the sun was setting, and you saw what looked like jinwoo in his university years, standing with hae-in as he spoke to her while admiring the setting sun.

you knew what you had to do. now that you had done what your heart had always desired to do, you step closer to jinwoo to whisper in his ear.

"jinwoo, even though i am certain that you never saw me, i thank you for giving me this chance to be with you... to help with making your life even the tiniest bit better."

you let out a sniffle before shakily continuing,

"you have always been a sole source of comfort for me, and i know i need to take this chance and let you go so you can find the happiness that you deserve."

as jinwoo continues to smile down at hae-in, hanging on to her every word, that was when you let your tears fall once more before telling him one last time.

"i love you, and i'll always wish for your happiness."

with those finally words set free from the depths of your heart and soul, you felt a warmth filling you, with your form disintegrating into thin air as you felt your consciousness slowly return back to your world. yet even though you knew you would never see him again, you felt... content-

at peace, even.

[ well done, it is time for you to awaken... ]

the last thing you recall was seeing a blinding light… allowing your body to bask in its brilliance one last time…

{ ... }

there was a sudden emptiness felt within the depths of sung jinwoo's heart-

and he wasn't sure what was wrong with him.

jinwoo was never the same after he lost... something; even after he had used the cup of reincarnation while proceeding to live his life as a normal human being, there was a gaping hole left within his chest.

he remembers the feeling of a warmth surrounding him; of the sounds of a gentle voice calling out to him while encouraging him. it may have been silly, but...

jinwoo developed a great courage and strength thanks to that gentle voice alone.

yet now, he felt as though he had suddenly lost it.

no longer did he feel such warmth coursing through his veins. no longer could he feel that comforting presence that made his courage soar to new heights-

heights that he never could believe he could even reach.

such feelings of emptiness was what ultimately made his heart feel closed off from those that he loved...

from his parents and sister...

from cha hae-in.

he spent the following days being lost in a trance, and he didn't know what to do to feel whole again.

"my, i did not believe that the loss of her presence would affect you so deeply."

jinwoo lets out a gasp, suddenly finding himself within the same meadows ashborn had confronted him in; the moment he had died and was fully reborn as ashborn's successor- the shadow monarch.

the wind was felt coursing through his hair, and he could not bring himself to speak to ashborn, eyes losing what little light it once had.

had he fallen asleep? was that why he was back in the land of repose?

"you are unhappy." ashborn's voice echoes throughout the realm, and jinwoo could no longer ignore him.

"am i unhappy?"

jinwoo was dimly aware of the bitter laugh that escapes from ashborn's parted lips before suddenly changing into someone-

an unfamiliar young woman as his voice takes on her tone.

"have you forgotten? i am you and you are me."

jinwoo recognizes that voice, eyes going wide as he reaches out to the unfamiliar figure-

he was certain he had never seen such a young woman before in his life-

yet that voice-

that resounding voice who always always always seemed to comfort him when his fears had taken over him-

the strange image of the young woman and that comforting voice-

it had to be one and the same.

"who is she?! and... how come i can't seem to find her, or even know her... yet- i-i know her voice! she-"

"the woman hails from another universe, one that is like the world you currently reside it, yet different."

jinwoo could feel his head begin to spin upon hearing such a revelation. "she... she is-"

"she is not from your world. your lives would have never collided had it not been for my intervention."

the young hunter's throat began to turn dry, unable to form a coherent thought when ashborn continues to speak.

"the world she lives in is a safe one; one where the only monsters that exists are simply those selfish humans and their own dark desires. gates and the presence of rulers and monarchs have never touched her world..."

he watches with a fascination, seeing the alluring girl flash him a smile.

"in fact, your whole life may be nothing but a mere story within her world."

jinwoo finally snaps out of it, hands clenched into fists when he asks, "how can i reach her? is there a way for me to be with her with the way i am now? can i use my powers as a monarch to find her?"

"... don't you think it's foolish to give up all that you've known for her?"

ashborn's words were enough to make jinwoo freeze in his tracks.

"think carefully about my words, i told you she comes from a world where powers like monarchs and rulers do not exist.

if you decide to find her; to join her in such a world that is so vastly different from your own, then you will lose your powers as a monarch. you will be reverted back to a normal man.

will you truly give up your peaceful life here? your family, your friends- every battle you have faced will be all for naught if you decide to reach her."

jinwoo allows his hair to fall across his eyes, covering them from ashborn when he steadily asks, "why did you allow her to come here, then?”

a silence was felt permeating at the air, becoming thick with tension as ashborn decided on whether to tell him the truth or not.

"i sent her here, allowing her to live certain moments of your life together solely because of the strength of love she held for you."

that was all the answer jinwoo needed as he met with ashborn's gaze, telling him his answer with a determination seen within his glowing, purple eyes.

{ ... }

you wake up with a start, your breathing coming out in shaky breath as the tears couldn't seem to stop. with a sigh, you cover your swollen eyes with both of your hands, struggling to catch your breath as you sorted through your every emotion.

you felt happy-

you felt love and adoration-

and the pinpricks of heartbreak coming into full fruition at the memory of jinwoo and hae-in together.

yet perhaps more so than that was the feeling of utter peace you felt after waking up from your dream.

feeling your smile going wide, you decide to wake up and begin your day.

you collect the volumes of solo leveling that you owned, making a note to yourself to buy the next volume when it came out. as you placed the solo leveling manhwa on your bookshelf, you begin to tidy up your room (making your bed and charging your phone in the process.)

it was strange; despite how you were 100% certain that you had been dreaming about being close to jinwoo as his guardian, you couldn't deny how much happier you felt once you woke up. it was true, the heartache was still there, yet you knew that as long as jinwoo was happy-

then you would be happy, too.

letting out a content sigh, you decide that it was high time that you changed your life for the better-

all while using the courage jinwoo had given you to become stronger.

{ ... }

there were rumors going around about a cute new freshman who transferred to your university, and despite how you held zero interest for any new students (because truly, new students came in troves each semester), you couldn't deny that you felt intrigued.

apparently, he was korean, with a face that could match with any current idol. according to the rumors, he had messy locks of black hair and dreamy, grey eyes. several girls had already tried speaking to him, practically throwing themselves at him-

yet he would always turn them down and tell them that he already had someone he liked.

but that didn't seem to discourage the girls (and some of the boys, too) from crushing on this handsome freshman. and admittedly, their antics seemed to greatly amuse you.

after completing your study sessions with your friends, you tell them that you had to go back to your dorm and make some dinner while working on your paper that was due soon. despite how they didn't want to see you go, you admitted to them how you would be too distracted at wanting to talk to them to get much work done.

in the end, they relented and allowed you to leave. you were simply walking back to your dorm, finding safety and comfort from within the street lamps that lit up the sidewalks. as you continued your trek, you look up to see an extremely tall young man walking down in the opposite direction.

the sight of him dressed in a hoodie and jeans makes you stop dead in your tracks, unable to look away from him. he also takes notice of your stance, yet instead of ignoring you and walking away-

he takes several steps towards you.

you were frozen on the spot, left staring up at him as the young man pulls down his hood, revealing unruly locks of ebony hair and a kind smile to you.

"hey, i've been looking everywhere for you."

his tone had a hint of an accent on it, but you couldn't deny that his english was impeccable. his presence made you feel butterflies all across your abdomen, and you weren't sure why that was.

"d-do i know you?"

you hear his rich chuckle echoing throughout the campus as he steps closer to you, allowing his large hand to gently touch at your cheek in an almost tender manner.

he whispers your name all while tracing at your bottom lip with his thumb.

"you do know me... i think you know me better than anyone else in the entire universe."

you then trail your gaze up to his eyes, only to see the perfect grey quality of them.

"sung jinwoo?!" his name comes out as a shock to you, yet before you could even fully process it, he takes you in his arms, allowing you to bury your face within his chest as a sense of relief courses through him.

"you have no idea how utterly lost i felt without you... how much my life had gone stale the moment you had said your goodbyes to me."

words were unable to come from your parted lips, your breathing coming out in ragged gasps as you suddenly felt the tears dot your vision. unable to deny the love you still held for him, you allow your arms to wrap around his back-

almost greedily.

"y-you know who i am?"

jinwoo's chuckle was a light one, and you felt something soft touching at the top of your hair when he admits to you.

"ashborn showed me your actions through the system... and once i realized how you were always there for me, i knew that i could not let you go."

he gently pulls you away from his chest, his eyes filled with emotion as tears streamed down his cheek, "i know that it was selfish of me, giving up everything that i have known just to be with you-

b-but in the end, it was worth it because i know that no one loves me like you do."

unable to hide back your happiness, you lean up to meet with his parted lips in a searing kiss. you could taste the saltiness of his tears as he held on to you, not daring to let you go as you basked in the arms of the man who loved you enough to give up everything he had ever known-

a man who would choose to cross universes, just to be with you.

a.n. - damn, this story was 5k words 🥹 but i hope that this was a story that you dreamt of, sweet reader of mine; one that would help put your daydreams to rest as i tried to bring each word to life. this is unedited, but i promise i'll make any edits after i post this absolute masterpiece of a request

all stories are written by rei; reposts, translations, and plagiarism are not allowed.

#sung jinwoo x reader #jinwoo sung x reader #sung jinwoo x you #jinwoo sung x you #solo leveling x reader #sung jinwoo #jinwoo sung #.stories

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actual-changeling · 3 months

Text

Aziraphale Does NOT Have Depression

or: Please Have a Look at the ICD

or: This Word Does Not Mean What You Think It Does

I cannot believe I even have to make this post, but here we are. Hi. Hello guys. Maybe I should start a series called "Alex fact-checks meta posts" because I have seen things that should have never been written.

A small excursion before we start: The way things usually work in academic circles is that the person making the claim needs to provide proof for said claim, which is then peer-reviewed by unrelated academic parties. That involves not only making sure that the results they are basing their claim on are replicable—meaning that if someone else were to do the same work, they would receive the same result—but also that their methods were ethical and functional.

If it turns out that their methods or any other part of the process are not replicable, functional, or otherwise waterproof, then the paper is marked as not being correct and that it should be disregarded.

While this is far from academic circles, these rules still apply to any kind of conversation or discussion, especially that last part:

If you make a claim, back it up, or it should be disregarded.

With that, welcome to the peer-review of "Aziraphale has depression" claims. Obligatory note that this is not about fanfiction or headcanons but people claiming that Aziraphale canonically has depression.

You may sit in front of your screen and think Alex, why do you think you can write this post? To which I happily respond that not only am I professionally diagnosed with both Dysthymia and Recurrent Depressive Disorder, I have also a) done my research offline with psychiatrists and psychologists and b) know how to read academic literature because my degree very much requires me to be able to do so.

If you want to go and fact-check what I am about to present—which you are explicitly invited to do in case you want to publicly disagree with me—you can find the entirety of the ICD 11 right here.

No paywall, completely free access.

For those who have never heard of it, ICD stands for "International Classification of Diseases", which is by now on its 11th version and written and maintained by the WHO/World Health Organization. It contains all kinds of relevant information, like diagnostic criteria, about all diseases. As you can see, this includes mental disorders and illnesses:

Let's get into it!

First things first, there is no such thing as "depression", that term is a colloquial reduction of a number of different disorders categorized under Mood Disorders -> Depressive Disorders. Said category also contains any and all diagnoses related to Bipolar Disorders.

"Depression" is nondescript, loose, and can mean a long list of things, and social media has diluted and romanticized its meaning. For the purpose of this post, we will have a look at the criteria for three diagnoses:

Dysthymic disorder (shortened here to dysthymia)

Single episode depressive disorder, mild ( // to single episode)

Recurrent depressive disorder, current episode mild ( // recurrent)

I assume people mean a crude mix of these when they say "depression". Both recurrent and single episode can be diagnosed with dysthymia, but they cannot be diagnosed with each other. Recurrent automatically excludes single episode as a diagnosis, which I think is obvious if you think about it.

Before we look at the symptoms themselves, here is something very important to keep in mind about diagnoses: There are two requirements that pretty much every listed disorder and illness in the ICD has.

The first is that the symptoms are not related to something else—whether that's another mental disorder, a physical illness, or simply a cultural influence. It needs to be clear that they are due to something outside of what is already known and not circumstantial.

The second one is that the present symptoms are causing significant distress and impair a person's functioning in at least two different areas of life.

Or, to put it bluntly, a disorder needs to be disordering or it isn't one.

Additionally, the severity of the displayed symptoms needs to be taken into account. If several of them are not causing any negative impact on someone's life, they are not symptoms and cannot be counted.

Now, I will very much reduce the information the ICD provides us with or we will be here forever, but it is all correct and not partial in its meaning. To keep everything neat and tidy, I created a nice, colour-coded table:

If you disagree with what I marked for Aziraphale, great, please provide me with textual evidence of where exactly he exhibits each criteria, that it is not related to periodical stress or something else, and cannot be attributed to exceptional circumstances (like the end of the world).

The ONLY symptom we ever see Aziraphale consistently show throughout all six thousand thousand years is the one marked in yellow: low self-worth or excessive or inappropriate guilt.

However, if you paid attention to what I explained above, you will notice why this is in no way indicative of a depressive disorder.

Not only is it one symptom out of several required ones, it can also be explained by something else, which is the emotional neglect and abuse heaven subjected and subjects every (former) angel to. The same can be said for any anxious symptoms he exhibits sometimes, emphasis on sometimes.

In conclusion, Aziraphale does not have depression, and I think making a case that he does will be almost entirely built on assumptions and subjective interpretations, not anything that is in any shape or form supported by text or subtext.

Does that mean all of his struggles are somehow invalid? No, of course not. They are simply not due to a disorder but something else, that's literally all this post proves. It makes no moral judgement.

#alex talks good omens #good omens meta #good omens season 2 #aziraphale meta #go2 #aziraphale #aziracrow #crowley x aziraphale #ineffable husbands #good omens #ineffable wives #ineffable spouses #crowley

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imakemywings · 6 months

Note

I am on the feanorians side of the silmaril debate and do see Dior and elwing as thieves. And I hope you dont see this as an attack i just want to explain my reasoning for the way i see it. But to me at least the stealing of the ships is an entirely seperate thing that happened, I know it happened because the silmarils got stolen in the first place. But it has nothing to do with the Dior and elwing part of the silmaril story. And thats why I dont bring up the stealing of the ships when talking about this

And I feel like Dior and elwing are thieves because they have the feanorians most treasured family heirloom and are refusing to give it back to them. And I think calling them thieves isnt exactly right because they didnt steal it from the feanorians and luthien and beren didnt either but it is wrong of them to not give it back. And the feanorians did first write letters asking to be given the silmaril back. The feanorians were wrong in kinslaying to try and get it back, but I do understand how they got to the conclusion to do so. They swore an oath to get it back and if they dont they will be in purgatory forever, so they really do have this need of getting it back even without considering the fact that its rightfully theirs to begin with.

As for for Dior and elwings part in this, I have more understanding for Dior than elwing. Dior is a new king and not well known to his people. And the silmaril to him represent a great deed done by his parents and their love for each other and I wouldnt be suprised if the silmaril was starting to become as important to Dior and his people as it was to the feanorians. So him not giving it away makes sense it has personal importance to him and giving it away could mark him as a weak king which is not something he needs. And it is also the fact that we dont know how much he knows about the feanorians oath and what it means he may know nothing at all about it.

Elwing on the other hand is completely different, I do not understand why she does the things she does at all. I will just be discussing the lead up to the kinslaying and not what happens during it, because I have read posts saying that her mental health may have crumbled during it and I do concede they have a point. But that doesnt explain any of the lead up to it. The feanorians ask for the silmaril and she tells them no and its like doesnt she realize that just like last time this can lead to a kinslaying, like does the thought even enter her mind and I dont understand how she could not see it as the likely outcome bu then she doesnt prepare for the eventuality at all. Its so puzzling to me, shes the leader and responible for the safety of everyone there but she doesnt seem to care about it. She doesnt even send her sons to cirdan were they would be safe from the feanorians. For elwing this has all happened before and she does nothing to change what will happen and it doesnt make sense.

So yea im on the feanorians side in this because the silmaril is rightfully theirs and while they did bad bad things to get them back i understand where they are coming from. Something i dont understand with elwing.

Hey anon, I definitely don't see this as an attack; I do appreciate your reasonable tone here.

If you're interested in other more detailed explorations of Elwing and her motivations, definitely check out my Elwing meta tag, because others on on tumblr have done some great work there.

The point I think the other anon was making about the swan ships is that fans can be very quick to condemn Luthien and her descendants as "thieves" of the Silmarils, but say nothing about the Feanorians' theft of the swan ships. No, the events aren't related, but one is a much clearer-cut case of theft than the other, yet it's the one that's swept under the rug to attack those who stand in opposition to the sons of Feanor (SoF). But you're right, it's not relevant to discussing Dior and Elwing in relation to the SoF.

Luthien and Beren, at great personal risk, obtained a Silmaril from Morgoth. I think it's relevant to note that at this point, the SoF appeared to have no problem with Luthien having possession of the Silmaril. In fact, Maedhros takes heart from their success and by it is inspired to begin his efforts which culminate in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.

First, let's recall Luthien's history with the Feanorians at the point that she and Beren depart Doriath after Beren is restored to life:

Luthien is aware of the Kinslaying at Alqualonde and the theft of the swan ships, actions of shocking violence by Elves against Elves, and the Noldor's part in trying to conceal it from her parents.

Celegorm and Curufin feign friendship with her when she encounters them on her quest to rescue Beren, only to then trap her in Nargothrond. Celegorm plans to wed her against her will, which strongly implies he also means to rape her, in order to force Thingol to open the Girdle to the Feanorians.

Celegorm and Curufin overthrew Finrod's chosen successor, Orodreth, and the Arafinweans had been friends of Doriath. She may or may not be aware that Celegorm used the oath to threaten the residents of Nargothrond, implicitly threatening violence against them.

After Luthien has escaped and rescued Beren from Sauron, she encounters Celegorm and Curufin again. Curufin attempts to kidnap her, and Celegorm then attempts to kill Beren when he leaps to her defense.

Celegorm openly makes threats against Thingol and Doriath.

So at this point, you can perhaps see why Luthien does not feel a lot of need to play nice with the SoF. From her perspective, they're pretty scummy people who are more than willing to commit violent acts against other Elves. At no point does Maedhros reprimand or punish Celegorm or Curufin for their actions, which as the leader of the Feanorians, suggests he doesn't think what they did was wrong. Why should she cooperate with them? They didn't risk their lives to obtain one of their Silmarils. If the Silmarils were as important to them as they claim, why haven't they tried harder? She and Beren, with far fewer resources, managed to do it.

Additionally, the Feanorians do not make any effort to reclaim the Silmaril from Luthien during her life. Possibly because she took down Morgoth (briefly).

"For while Luthien wore the Necklace of the Dwarves no Elf would dare to assail her..." (Of the Ruin of Doriath)

So she dies and the Silmaril goes to Dior, her son.

To Dior, the Feanorians are the unquestioned villains of his parents' story. These are people who openly threatened his grandfather's kingdom, who tried to force his mother into marriage and imprisoned her, who tried to kill his father. Sure, you can argue that they have an ancestral claim on the Silmaril--but cannot Dior also make that argument at this point? And what motivation does he have to cooperate with them? They do nothing to win his friendship, as they have done nothing to win the friendship of Doriath throughout their time in Beleriand. If Maedhros is such a formidable diplomat, why can he not come to terms with Dior?

"They [the Feanorians] came at unawares in the middle of winter, and fought with Dior in the Thousand Caves..." (Of the Ruin of Doriath, emphasis added)

Furthermore, to your point, Dior is a young king--and a mortal among Elves. Doriath is also recovering from the war with Nogrod; they are already in a vulnerable position, and with Melian gone, the Girdle is down, so they are far more exposed than they are accustomed to being and having to adjust to that.

So Dior does not relinquish the Silmaril, and rather than pursue the two held by Morgoth, the Feanorians assault Doriath, kill many Elves, throw at least two children out into the woods to die of exposure, and still fail to capture the Silmaril.

So Dior dies and the Silmaril goes to Elwing, his daughter.

Consider what the Feanorians represent to Elwing at this point.

These are Elves who have shown themselves to be unrepentant killers. We as the fans love to focus on the tormented regret of the Feanorians, but to their victims, they are simply killers. They committed slaughter in the Blessed Realm, for which they were exiled by the Valar, and for which they have expressed such regrets--except that they've gone and done the same thing here in Beleriand. They have threatened forced marriage, they have killed children, they have driven the Iathrim from their home and made them refugees. To Elwing personally, they are the murderers of her parents and the ones who dragged her brothers into the woods as children and left them to die.

What, precisely, might motivate Elwing to cooperate with them? So the Silmaril "belongs" to them--so what? They have tormented Luthien's line for generations now--the Feanorians ARE the Morgoth of Elwing's story. And she should give into them why? The Ring belongs to Sauron--should Frodo hand it over because it's his property?

Maedhros, who has apparently lost all diplomatic veneer, does nothing to show good faith or a desire to cooperate with Elwing. Instead, he writes with his demands, as he did with Dior.

The one thing--the ONE thing--that might make Elwing cooperate is, to me, solely to avoid another slaughter as happened in Doriath, as you mentioned. So in this vein, why doesn't Elwing surrender the Silmaril just to avoid trouble, even if she hates and distrusts the Feanorians? There are two things which are absolutely key to understanding this decision.

1.Elwing does not make the decision alone. Critics of Elwing often act as though she made a unilateral decision to withhold the Silmaril from the Feanorians--which is not the case. In fact, Tolkien writes that "Elwing and the people of Sirion" refused to yield the jewel under threat.

This is not an unusual response. Most people do not respond well to being threatened, and may refuse out of spite. Furthermore, these are people who were made refugees by the same people now making demands of them.

But more importantly, Elwing did not alone choose to keep the Silmaril. She and whatever Sirionites aided her in governing decided together that they would not give in to the Feanorians.

2. The second is that the Sirionites believed the Silmaril was protecting Earendil and the Havens. Remember that at this time, Earendil is seeking for Aman, to obtain the help of the Valar in defeating Morgoth. So not only is he the lord of the Havens at Sirion, but he is on a quest which is, to them, of critical importance. They need him to stay safe so that he can complete his mission and hopefully win Beleriand's rescue.

And to your point about Dior above--this Silmaril is effectively a family heirloom to Elwing as well.

The Sirionites are particularly loath to part with the Silmaril while Earendil is at sea--which makes sense, as he is a ruling lord of this city, and they believe his protection is somewhat dependent on their possession of the Silmaril.

But the Feanorians don't wait for Earendil to return to negotiate--they lay siege to the Havens at Sirion while Earendil is still away ("For the sons of Feanor that yet lived came down suddenly upon the exiles of Gondolin, and the remnant of Doriath" Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath, emphasis added) and render the Iathrim virtually extinct as a people. Once again, they come down "suddenly" on another group of Elves and destroy them.

What the Feanorians do in the Havens at Sirion is so awful ("the cruelest of the slayings of Elf by Elf") that their own troops stand aside or even turn against them during the fight in an effort to defend the Sirionites; the Feanorians kill them too.

This, to me, tells us how far the Feanorians are from attempting any real diplomatic work here. They are not even considering the Silmarils that Morgoth still has; they have utterly failed to reach Elwing in a diplomatic or cooperative manner; they refuse to even wait until Earendil has returned so that he and Elwing can make a decision together, as joint rulers of this city.

Why doesn't Elwing fortify the Havens? We have no evidence that she doesn't. Only that it wasn't enough to stop the Feanorians. Why doesn't she send Elrond and Elros away? That poses its own risks--and she may believe they are safest there, as the Sirionites believe the Silmaril is protecting the Havens. It may be incorrect, but it is something they believe and they operate under that belief.

But even if you think she didn't do things she should have--does that justify the actions of the Feanorians? It's fine for them to murder because their victims didn't do enough to prevent them from murdering? You took our object so we can kill you for it now?

Putting all that aside for now, I want to jump over to the oath, because you mentioned something interesting about it:

They swore an oath to get it back and if they dont they will be in purgatory forever

Purgatory and hell do not exist in Ea. What exactly the Feanorians think their "punishment" for breaking the oath will be is unclear, whether it's just death without the chance for rebirth (as is the case with Feanor, and seems to be the most extreme punishment the Valar can or will enact), or something more. Clearly they put a lot of stock in it--but they also are not totally beyond the notion of breaking it. Maglor himself suggests after the Third Kinslaying that they should abandon the quest and plead their repentance to the Valar, but Maedhros refuses.

Maedhros seems to still believe they may suffer some punishment for breaking it--that Eru might actually hold them to the oath they swore. But Maglor counters with the notion the oath can be voided:

"Yet Maglor held back, saying: 'If Manwe and Varda themselves deny the fulfillment of an oath to which we named them in witness, is it not made void?'" (Of the Voyage of Earendil)

And of course, why would Manwe and Varda hold them to an oath which has caused so much strife, and which promises to cause more? Why should they desire the Feanorians to be held to an oath which causes them to murder and destroy other Elves? Maedhros refuses, still believing, or at least asserting, that some punishment by Eru awaits if they break the oath. Maglor somewhat grimly points out that given what they've done, punishment is their due one way or other other:

"'If none can release us,' said Maglor, 'then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep the oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking.'" (Of the Voyage of Earendil)

Maglor acknowledges that they have done evil in pursuit of the oath and that they will continue to do evil if they do not choose to set it aside. Furthermore, that if they cannot be excused from the oath, they're likely to experience punishment either for breaking it or for the things they do in pursuit of it, so it's all the same in the end anyway. Yet Maedhros and Maglor instead make a free and conscious decision to continue their pursuit of the Silmarils.

They are a) well aware that they have done horrible, awful things trying to fulfill this oath; and b) aware that breaking it is an option. They choose not to. They have chosen not to this entire story.

And truthfully, even if they would be condemned to purgatory or whatever, it doesn't justify what they do. They chose to swear this oath, they have chosen to pursue it, and if they are willing to slaughter whomever they need to to protect themselves from the consequences of their own oaths, that still makes them selfish, wretched people who are willing to sacrifice anyone else to make sure they themselves stay safe.

Even if they were able to obtain the one Silmaril from Elwing, the oath is not fulfilled. Morgoth still has two. Everything they did to Doriath and the Havens at Sirion is worthless without the other two Silmarils, but they did it anyway; and even after the chaos wrought by their actions there, go ahead and slay Eonwe's guard after the War of Wrath to steal the Silmarils everyone else had rescued from Morgoth.

The Feanorians have done so much wrong that the Silmarils themselves reject them by the end. I don't know how else the narrative could make it clearer they are in the wrong. Tolkien implies that the oath was wicked from the very start, and always bound to lead the Feanorians into wrongful acts.

Lastly, I will point over at this meta I wrote a few months back about how if the Feanorians had obtained the Silmaril from Elwing, it would likely have doomed Middle-earth to Morgoth's rule.

In any case, I don't think anyone who escalates a situation to murder is ever in the right, and certainly not over something like property rights. If you can sympathize with the Feanorians about their perspective, you should be able to consider what the Feanorians are to the perspective of Luthien's line--and why they are not keen to work together with the Feanorians or give them what they want.

Not sure if you found any of this convincing, but I hope it's something to consider at least!

#asks #anonymous #elwing defense

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trutrustories · 6 months

Text

STUDY IN LOKI ROMANCE

Part 4: Heart of the TVA

Since we're only a few days away from the last episode, I decided to COUNT DOWN everything we´ve got so far ( that can be interpreted very easily as romantic ) and discuss what the actual fuck is going on with second season. Because even though I shipped lokius practically from S1E2, I absolutely did NOT expect this kind of development. (Not that I´m complaining)

Warning: This is gonna be LONG post, lots of screenshots, lots of SPOILERS, lot of "oh-my-god-they-so-cute" language, and little bit of meta.

I originally thought that this post would be everything at once, but since I have just too many screenshots this time around, I´ll have to split it. so every post will be one episode. Color coding means:

IIIIIIIIII = anything, that coud potentialy be just acting choice.

IIIIIIIIII = everything else (tzn.: whatever was written, and/or carefully prepared by filmmakers. )

side note: I already wrote, about how amazing it is, that Mobius is unable to fight but fights anyway and how beautifuly, and ridiculously brave he is HERE. But this is about Loki/Mobius interactions, so I´ll try my best not to talk about THAT. (Even when I´m really happy, that s2 continues with this formula and Mobius is still his completely defenseless while aggressively brave self. I love him, btw.)

EPISODE 1 HERE

EPISODE 2 HERE

EPISODE 3 HERE

check-list, episode 4 (my beloved): 33) changing clothes together not to be that person, but like... they always went through the door from TVA on timeline in their "camouflage disguises". So Loki couldn't use his magic to change their clothes. I mean... they even make turning off system that prevents magic plot point in this episode So unless they have some special device in TVA (which was never established) It is implied, that these two just spend some time changing clothes together, before going out. And that brings me to this specific moment: At the end of the previous episode we see them going through the time door (fairly soon after Victor Timely, in 1893 clothing) And this episodes starts with Victor ariving at TVA and wondering around the empty hallways. Alone. So let me get this straight: After we see them both walk through the time door, they end in that war room (were they met in ep1), just the two of them. Victor is.... somewhere. who knows where, who even cares? And they though: it is actualy priority number one to change our clothes. Yes, right now. Never mind, we have He Who Remains variant wondering around the TVA and everything is going to explode soon. We have to take our clothes off. RIGHT THE FUCK NOW. I´m sorry, film makers, but what the acual f-

34) Bickering like married couple (part 4) (but this time with EVERYONE else watching them with question marks above their heads. And these two idiots husbands probably didn´t even noticed xDD )

Also.... "It´s got your shape" 😳 really? really Mobius? And how would you- oh sorry, my bad, never mind. I almost forget you were changing clothes togheter MULTIPLE TIMES, so of course you would know that. ... right? 35) The "misunderstanding trope"

This whole scene is just... jeeez! Sylvie screeming at Mobius for wanting cake (while Loki already knows, that Mobius wants it, because he is in a stress.) He tries to stop Sylvie, but she continues. Loki circles around her and ends up right between them (cough...smybolism...cough) And Sylvie starts attacking Mobius because he doesn´t want to know his life on a timeline. While Loki is RIGHT THERE, knowing perfectly well Mobiuses reason´s and how bad she is hurting him, because episode 2 happened. Loki knows. And then she leaves, and Loki follows her. But Mobius doesn´t know, what we know: and that he went to her to DEFEND HIM. Jeeeeeeez writers.... thanks, for this perfect example of romantic complication. Dramatic irony 100%. I´m living for this relationship drama while everything around them collapses and explodes. 10/10 television!

Also... poor man needed pick-me-up cocoa drink immediately after 😭

36) Pie scene number two I have to say, I LOVED this scene. EVERY FUCKING WORD. philosophical conflicts? yes please. moral dilemas? give me more! but let´s focus on Loki defending Mobius. Him bringing up Thor into the coversation, and comparing his change on Earth (that he didn´t understand before) to his own change that came from spending time at TVA. spending time with Mobius. And he is standing infront of pies this whole time! basicly him low key comparing Thor´s love for Jane to his love for Mobius

And let´s not forget how obvious the difference between two pie scenes is! Because the first one is full of relaxed gestures, kindness and understanding. Just Loki and Mobius being intimite and open with each other 🥹 In glaring contrast with that, THIS scene, with Sylvie is full of conflict, tention and disagreements. The are standind, far from each other, and whole room has completely different (horror like) vibe.

37) THIS SHOT. just the two of them, right before the end.

God I love this episode so much! 💛💛💛

#lokius #loki #loki spoiler #loki spoilers #loki season 2 #mobius #mobius m mobius #loki and mobius

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vidavalor · 5 months

Note

hi again! rewatched the 1st season now. so first off thanks again for the excuse i appreciate it lol. but secondly hoping you wouldn't mind explaining the satan's obssession with crowley thing? cos he's obvs creepy as all hell pun not intended in the 11 years ago scene but i haven't found the bit that confirms it's a fixation on crowley and not just satan being satan. tysm!

Hi! Thanks for the ask. I can try and we can see what you think after, yeah? :) Christmas cookie? *passes plate and pours some tea*

TWs: discussion of PTSD, sexual assault, including rape, intimate partner abuse, anxiety, depression. We're looking at Crowley as an assault survivor here so it's a bit dark. Lindsay's abuse of Nina is also mentioned here. This will wind up having a companion meta at some point soon as I was also asked in comments on another post to talk about Crowley and intimacy issues which is then really also talking about Aziraphale as a trauma-informed partner so a less intense Part 2 at some point soon...

If you're the anon who asked me this (or anybody else) and you can't read something with these warnings but you'd like to see what I'm saying, PM me or throw something in my Asks and I'll see if I can do a version of this that gets the points across while omitting the darker aspects.

Meta on Lucifer and Crowley under the cut.

The Ask here was about why I see Lucifer as fixating on Crowley, in particular, and not just being generally evil as, ya know, he's Satan. It's a fair question since Satan's evil isn't exactly something that anyone would consider restrained as he's the devil. Some of this is inference here when it comes to Lucifer, since the show intentionally holds the character back a bit... but I also think that holding Lucifer back is by design to help illustrate some things that we'll look at here.

The first clue to me that Lucifer has a bit of a fixation on Crowley comes from Crowley's gigs in Hell. Before the end of S1, Crowley was high-ranked in Hell. He seems to go by quite a few names in his demonic world. By making himself Nanny Astoreth when he's looking after Warlock, it alludes the idea that Crowley is also the demon of that name, who is considered part of the "evil trinity" of Hell, along with Lucifer and Beezlebub, with whom Crowley used to spend time with pre-Fall and with whom he has history.

Astoreth is a genderbent serpent goddess in lore with an abundance of other Crowley traits so safe to say that Crowley is meant to be Astoreth as well. Aziraphale proposed in 33 AD that Crowley is also Mephistopheles and Asmodeus, which Crowley didn't exactly deny. Mephistopheles is one of the most famous demons to ever exist-- he of the Faustian bargain-- and Asmodeus is the demonic prince of lust. Crowley's already been shown to be a Bible figure in disguise-- Bildad the Shuite being a Biblical character-- so the idea that we are at the 2/3rds mark of the show and we've met all the high-ranking demons in Hell but several famous ones appear to not exist in Good Omens, despite more minor ones (Shax, Furfur) making appearances, implies that we probably actually have met demons like Mephistopheles and Asmodeus because they're all really Crowley.

Crowley retained power in Hell because it allows him what little freedom he can have in damnation. It means he likely won't be removed from Earth if he proves he's "good" at being a demon and that means he won't get stuffed in some cluttered, dark, cubicle in Hell for millennia. (Or destroyed.) More importantly, it means he'll be able to be on Earth with Aziraphale. That's easily worth taking credit for a bunch of human wars to fool Hell into thinking he's evil.

While we see that Crowley, when forced to come up with a demonic plot of his own, picks more annoying things than evil things and sells them as evil-- the M-25 design, taking down mobile phone networks, he's sometimes forced into doing things he doesn't want to do in order to not be outed as a demon who isn't super jazzed about being a demon and is really, secretly, a free-flying crow. He doesn't live to serve their Master Satan like some of the other demons do. He's going along with Hell as best he can and sometimes, he finds himself in a situation where he has to get creative because he's been tasked with something he disagrees with-- like we saw in the Job minisode. Other times, he might be forced into something he can't find a way out of, which is implied a little to be at the root of his terrible mood when he and Aziraphale meet up in Ancient Rome. He's wearing military garb that implies the temptations he's saying he's in Rome to accomplish are tied to Caligula, who wasn't exactly a swell guy.

What's interesting, though, is that Crowley is in this position of power in the first place. Other demons are shown in both seasons so far to be jealous of Crowley. He gets all the good gigs. Satan makes a bet with God that has both Upstairs and Downstairs in a tizzy for weeks and who is sent to whack the kids? Crowley. Who was sent on the first ever really Earth mission-- to get up into the Garden of Eden and "make some trouble"? Crowley, long before he'd cemented his big reputation. Who gets to deliver the antichrist baby and so kick off Armageddon, the thing that angels and demons basically "live" for? Crowley...

Across both seasons so far, Hastur, Ligur and Furfur are all given scenes of showing that they're jealous of Crowley being a favorite of Satan's and given the best assignments while they slum it in middle-management at best. What Crowley never says or admits to with other demons is that they actually don't want to be the favorite of Lucifer over here because he's the actual fucking devil and it's an absolute horror show. Crowley isn't about to admit that to them because he's supposed to want nothing more than to be Satan's slave and to express anything else is not demonic.

The other demons who are antagonistic towards Crowley are invasive and creepy but they stop short long before what we've seen Lucifer do. Hastur and Ligur pop up unannounced in Crowley's electronics-- the tv in his flat, on the screen at the movies-- and that's already disturbing. Imagine having your evil coworkers able to interrupt your r&r tv time in your own apartment... let alone the fact that Shax and even Beezlebub both pop up into The Bentley unannounced in S2. There's no evidence so far that Satan is out here "delivering instructions" like this to others in Hell the way he does to Crowley in 1.01 (and there's actually a scene in S2 that we'll talk about that suggests that he's not or, at least, that it's uncommon, which we'll get to in a second.)

He might well be but when you combine assaulting Crowley with giving him all the prime gigs in Hell and the other demons' jealousy of their Master's attention towards Crowley, you wind up with the impression that Satan is a bit fixated on Crowley.

The Bentley scene with Lucifer in 1.01 is analogous to rape. Crowley's sense of personal autonomy is violated. He doesn't consent to Lucifer forcibly entering his body. Lucifer does so by first penetrating through Crowley's two foremost metaphorical defenses-- The Bentley (enters through the radio and uses it to invade Crowley) and his sunglasses, which cannot shield his eyes/himself from Lucifer. Crowley already has these signature defenses mechanisms on in the attack scene and the horror in the scene is actually watching neither of them protect him. The scene is so early in the show that it's only the second scene we've ever seen Crowley wearing his glasses (and it's pitch black dark out, to add to it) so the glasses are basically introduced to us by showing us a situation that motivates Crowley's desire to hide his eyes from people he doesn't trust, even if they aren't human and know what his eyes look like. This is Crowley's third scene in the series itself and it's really arguably the second half of his second scene (the Hastur & Ligur in the graveyard one.) It's part of our introduction to Crowley in the modern era, with only Eden preceding it. Armageddon is new but the rest of this hell-- faking being evil, suffering violating attacks-- is thousands of years old for him at this point.

Crowley is driving when this happens.

Driving is the ultimate symbol of self-control because you're literally behind the wheel, navigating yourself through the world, in control of where you are going and the decisions you need to make to get you there, trusting yourself to make decisions that protect others on the road around you. Lucifer rips that from him by rendering him unable to drive while "delivering instructions" to his mind. Crowley-- a very powerful, magical being-- is unable to fight him off. When Lucifer leaves his body, Crowley had to grab the wheel and steer The Bentley away from hitting an oncoming truck with about three seconds to spare from a head-on collision. Crowley, The Bentley and the antichrist baby all would have likely survived that crash without issue because of their magic-- but the human driving the truck likely would not have. Obviously, Crowley would prefer not to kill anybody but Satan nearly made him against his will and rendered him unable to fight him, the powerlessness of which is then interesting when tied into things like Crowley essentially drugging himself to save Elspeth, trusting the present Aziraphale to help protect him while he did, etc..

As the attack happens, parts of "Bohemian Rhapsody" are underscoring it, picking up on a musical cue from when Crowley rolled up in The Bentley to see Hastur and Ligur in the graveyard. The graveyard scene sees Crowley arrive at the big crescendo of the song and what is it but the lyrics Beezlebub, has the devil put aside for me? and, prior to that, the eerie lyrics, especially on rewatch when you know what happens as a result of this scene: we will not let you go (let him go) x a million, not to mention the no no no no no no... bit.

By the time we're back in The Bentley and Lucifer has shown up, parts of the song play through it. I see a little silhouetto of a man plays as Crowley is literally seeing the driver of the oncoming truck in front of him, just as he loses the ability to control The Bentley. When Lucifer leaves him and Crowley grabs the wheel, we hear thunderbolts and lightning/very, very frightening/me and the Galileo segment of the song. Thunderbolts and lightning is interesting since God makes it a point to point out that this night is not dark and stormy but then that type of weather is what Crowley does in S2 that causes the power to go out and his parallel, Nina, to be trapped. It's also what demons in general can do so you could say sending a storm-- like in the Job minisode-- to be demonic and of Satan. (If it's not Crowley doing it to play Cupid, anyway.) The thunderbolts and lightning of Satan/Hell is very, very frightening to Crowley...

...Me/Galileo/Galileo/Galileo/Figaro... Galileo is arguably the most famous astronomer to ever live. He was a polymath, really, like Crowley was. Crowley, as an angel, made the stars and invented gravity. The scene with Hastur and Ligur that precedes this and ties into it has Hastur mistranslate the Italian Crowley spoke during it. Crowley said "ciao", meaning "goodbye", which Hastur correctly said was Italian but he claimed it meant "food" (mistaking it for "chow" because he's an idiot.) So a scene that ends with Crowley speaking Italian then connects directly into the scene of this attack, where Italian is spoken in the song scoring it, as Galileo was Italian and figaro in Italian is "fig tree".

While Eve does eat an apple in Good Omens, the Biblical 'fruits of knowledge' that tie to the Serpent tempting Eve in Eden are interpreted in different ways throughout different religions and at different periods in history. In Good Omens, Crowley got Eve to eat an apple and the pleasure of food opened a door to sexual pleasure. Eve shared the apple with Adam and they were *Aziraphale's hilariously judgemental voice* "expecting already" with Eve about 8 months pregnant later a day later because Eve's biology is atypical of other humans and all that. It's debated as an apple, with other different fruits and sometimes even wheat mentioned as possible things Eve ate-- if she ate food at all, as some people take the entire thing as a sexual metaphor. Figs are one fruit that some people believe it was instead of an apple, so this is a reference to Crowley as the Serpent of Eden.

Me/Galileo/Galileo/Galileo/Figaro... Crowley holding onto himself while under attack and just after it, which speaks to activation of a plan, which speaks to this not being the first time he's endured something like this. Galileo and Figaro = The Starmaker and the Serpent of Eden. The things he's done that he is proud of, that make him not evil, in his mind, and not deserving of this. Things he likes about himself. Things Aziraphale loves about him.

The song is narrating for us Crowley through the attack as he's basically frozen there enduring it, seeing the driver of the truck coming at him and Scaramouche/Scaramouche/Will you do The Fandango?

A scaramouche is a kind of mischievous scamp-- so, Crowley; The Fandango is a Spanish couple dance. Historically, one version of it is done between a pair of men who try to outdo one another with skill, in a kind of homoerotic competition. It's also slang for fucking during a concert and I have the feeling that Crowley would probably enjoying doing that Fandango a lot more as that would be consenting with a partner of his choice at a live concert rather than being mind-raped to Queen by the devil in his car. Regardless, it's another allusion to sex in the scene, adding to the rape overtones.

There's also something that is pretty horrifying about the fact that these scenes of Crowley and Aziraphale being separately reintroduced to us in 2008 after we first met them both together in Eden are intercut so that Lucifer's attack on Crowley scored by "Bohemian Rhapsody" ends with the Italian sung and cuts directly into Aziraphale speaking Japanese to the chef at the sushi restaurant.

He'll try to explain to Gabriel that eating sushi is "what humans do", which is the same phrase he'll use to try to explain to Michael and Uriel in S2 what falling in love is. During the bookshop attack, Shax will bully Aziraphale about his humanity-- about the same two things (food and love) in the two previous, connected scenes. (Gabriel, initially the one repulsed by tea in 1.01, leaves the scene after Aziraphale tells him to hide by asking if anyone wants a hot chocolate, in a pretty hilarious turnabout.) Shax calls back to the food-related and the love-related "it's what humans do" moments for Aziraphale by asking if she should "send up the sushi" and by mocking his relationship with Crowley ("What are you? Crowley's emotional support angel?"). Crowley and Aziraphale are the ones in love and it's tied together throughout multiple scenes in both seasons to sushi, in reference to the night Armageddon began in 2008.

The point then is that, making this all even worse, Crowley is actually supposed to be at a back corner table in a dark sushi restaurant sneaking a date with Aziraphale when he's attacked by Lucifer in The Bentley-- and then forced into helping start Armageddon, which could bring about the end of his and Aziraphale's relationship... and that's our grim introduction to his world in the modern part of the story.

As we go learn what Aziraphale is like in the modern era and contrast him with his head office's mentality via Gabriel's arrival, we also are given clues in the scene that suggest that Aziraphale was actually expecting Crowley, as he looks to the side Crowley comes up on when he hears the miracle sound that actually signals Gabriel's arrival instead. Aziraphale will then explain that he's there, doing "what humans do" and enjoying it, to Gabriel, and it will be only eating sushi in this moment, just as Crowley will not be present when Aziraphale explains that falling in love is "what humans do" while objectively talking about Maggie & Nina but, ultimately, talking about himself and Crowley beneath it-- his real motivation for keeping Heaven off their backs is Crowley. The writers then have Shax combine the two "it's what humans do" scenes around love and sushi and throw them back at Aziraphale while Crowley is once again not with him because of Heaven/Hell but is present in his absence in the moment.

All of this happens in the first scenes of Crowley in the modern era, all the way back in the first episode, and it's done to give us an understanding that he is a survivor of attacks like this and how that impacts his behavior, his choices, his relationship with Aziraphale. It's to give us a finer appreciation for his strength and his humor and his capacity to love in the face of it. It's to show that while some of the demons are just kind of amusing idiots, if dangerous, and that there's a lot of humor to mine there, some aspects of being a demon are not at all amusing. Crowley is really just doing the best he can to survive the absolute horror show that is an eternity of damnation as Satan's favorite over here because there are very dark, very violent aspects of it that he cannot permanently avoid.

While the attack we are shown is a mercifully short, if horrifying, scene, the implications of it are even worse. The assault we are shown had a plot purpose in that moment-- Satan giving instructions on delivering the antichrist baby to the satanic nunnery-- and since everything was in motion, that was the extent of it. Armageddon took precedence. What we are left with, though, is the impression that this type of demonic assault with its massive rape overtones is something that Crowley's experienced before and that the implication is that Lucifer attacking him is not always just to deliver a message related to an assignment but to deliver one of forcible control over him and that this is something that Crowley has been dealing with periodically for the 6,000 years he's been on Earth. It's akin to a kind of rape in 1.01 and that is already way more than enough to see how that would affect Crowley in the story... but then S2 takes this scene and both alludes to it in a key moment and gives it a whole paralleling subplot, highlighting its importance and continuing to expand upon the meaning of it. Both things together then suggest that while we saw a rape-coded assault in 1.01, the feeling that the scene was alluding to other instances where it was rape itself was definitely the implication of it.

In S2, in the group scene at the end, Crowley is out of the bookshop taking Maggie and Nina away from the angels for their safety when the subject of Satan comes up for the only direct time that season. Shax demands that Gabriel and Beezlebub be taken to Hell to be given "as gifts for Satan, our Master" and Head of the Dark Council Dagon replies that "he wouldn't want them-- maybe as hors d'ouerves." On the show obsessed with food symbolism and that codes different types of food with relation to sex-- in particular, because of Serpent of Eden Crowley-- and with the brothel owner named "Mrs. Sandwich", to say someone would want a being as a "hors d'ouerves" implies sex and if we're talking about Lucifer, then we've already established that consent isn't exactly a priority. Rape isn't about sex-- it's about power-- but the show is coding Lucifer's behavior in line with its coding of sex to highlight that his violation of Crowley isn't just of the heavily rape-coded variety that we saw in 1.01 but has actually, at other times, been rape.

Dagon's most significant line in S2 is essentially to point out that Satan's a rapist-- but it's also to point out that not everyone in Hell has been through that horror. Satan's choosy. Satan's a bit fixated. Dagon's comment is actually surprising. Your first thought when Shax suggests giving Gabriel and Beez to Lucifer is that he's the devil so they'd be in danger and what you've seen of what he's done to Crowley was skin-crawling and you don't want that to happen to Gabriel and Beezlebub. You assume that it might because we're talking about Satan but then Dagon puts a check on that and says-- to not a single bit of even implied disagreement in the room-- that Satan wouldn't really care that much about getting Gabriel and Beez.

Think about how truly kind of crazy that is.

Satan would not be that interested in being handed over his old friend and the Grand Duke of Hell who betrayed him and the Supreme Archangel of Heaven? He'd maybe rape 'em, sure, possibly, casually posits Dagon, but they aren't what he's really after. They'd just be hors d'ouerves.

Not a single being in the room even so much as signals disagreement with that assessment that the not terribly subtle Dagon chose to voice aloud, which means they all agree with her. They all know who Lucifer's fixated on.

*Gabriel* and *Beezlebub* would only be fucking *appetizers* to Satan.

That implies the existence of *a main course*, does it not?

Who else but Crowley (and Aziraphale) could be on that menu? No one.

We also have that Crowley is conveniently out of the bookshop for the moment that Shax and Dagon have this exchange about Lucifer. He comes back in on Dagon saying "hors d'ouerves" but was outside when Shax was referencing Satan so he didn't hear any of it. This seems very deliberate on the part of the writers, as if Crowley had been in the room, it would have prompted some kind of response and changed what happened in the scene afterwards. Instead, the only reference to Lucifer is specifically when Crowley isn't in the room, probably because this conflict is on-going and going to continue into S3.

Prior to Dagon's line, the show also paralleled Lucifer assaulting Crowley in The Bentley in 1.01 with Lindsay abusing Nina, which adds another layer into this. You could even make an argument that one of the reasons why we never see Lindsay and we just see their abuse of Nina via the text messages they send Nina is to draw an intentional parallel to how little we've seen to date of Lucifer/Satan in the series.

It directly ties to the 1.01 scene in The Bentley because, prior to Lucifer coming through the radio and assaulting Crowley, Crowley was trying to call Aziraphale (the Maggie to his Nina in this parallel, though obviously much further along in that relationship) to tell him about Armageddon but he'd taken out the mobile phone networks earlier in the night to have something demonic to share with Hastur and Ligur. This parallels Crowley knocking out the power in S2 accidentally and Nina getting locked in the coffee shop with Maggie. Lucifer and Lindsay both attack through electronic communication devices-- The Bentley's radio and Nina's phone-- and unleash a torrent of abuse. The difference is that Nina might be more easily able to escape Lindsay and live a more peaceful life after S2 while Crowley has yet to be truly able to evade Lucifer.

While Lindsay's abuse of Nina is at least psychological and emotional in what we are shown and Lucifer's abuse of Crowley is that with physical and sexual aspects that may or may not be present in Nina's relationship with Lindsay, the type of abuse doesn't matter to the parallel as it's all terrible and that's the point. Lucifer's abuse of Crowley is paralleled with the intimate partner abuse Nina is suffering in her relationship. This is objectively pretty interesting since it sort of suggests that Lucifer is Crowley's Lindsay, in the sense that they might have once been involved pre-Fall, which might add another element to why Lucifer is fixated on Crowley.

So, while Crowley can encourage his parallel Nina all he wants to take a risk and trust more and to trust him when he promises that it will be worth it, Crowley himself can't really extract himself from his own Lindsay-ish situation yet. He does know how to survive it, though, and it's not all about the defenses he and Nina put up-- it's about learning to shed some of those defenses enough to have a sense of intimacy with a kind person you can trust to love you and help you feel safe.

#ineffable husbands #good omens #crowley #aziraphale #good omens 2 #good omens meta #aziracrow

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villainsandvictimsalliance · 1 month

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A quick analysis of AFO's origin, the world frame of bnha and the core themes of the story :

From reading other people's metas and reading the leaks when they came out, my only solid take about it is that you cannot talk about bnha and the core theme of the perpetuation of violence without understanding how the Hero Society and the hero vs villain culture came to be.

That's what AFO origin is for.

Let's see if I can explain it:

In stories where a group of people suddenly gains powers, you'll always see that authors worry to portray how a change like that would affect the world at the moment. What does it mean that part of the global population now has access to something that others don't? Does that make them "better humans"? Are they superior to the rest and therefore should control them? Are they a danger to society? Should they be repressed or eliminated?

The thing is that powers can be viewed as a metaphor to real life situations we face. People with disabilities deal with the whole stupid idea that they are less than the rest of humanity all the time. You have sexism and racism and a bunch of other problems that at heart are about how to deal with different existences. Should people with certain privileges rule the world? Etc etc etc.

For a second, think of having superpowers as having a ton of money. Those with more money can help others or totally ruin their lives, right? In our world, people with money are directly involved in how justice works. They can corrupt the system or make it work, you know how it is. Yet, people with money are only people. We are all just that. Humans. No matter the amount of privileges, you can't escape your own humanity.

The way a person looks, the amount of money they own, where they are from, how they identify as, none of that makes a person more or less human. Similarly, having powers or the nature of said powers... It doesn't make a person less of a person, you know?

When you apply that logic to superpowers, you get what MHA is trying to say.

AFO lived in these specific conditions that were a result of the violence of his time. He would have ended up bitter anyway, because since he was born he was marked as a threat. When you reject someone like that, when you reject their humanity and you make an enemy out of there, you're not asking for a nice ending. If you teach them that they have to fight for the right to exist, you are asking for a war. It's like that in our world, it's like that in bnha.

What I'm trying to say is that superpowers are just an added variable in the complex equation of human coexistence.

The moment superpowers start to appear, society has to adapt fast. People that are also weapons don't mix well with the world's problems, after all. If you want to prevent mass killings, you need to set a system that rules the allowed behaviors and balances out the board. It's a relief that humanity is both capable of great horrors and wonders, so to every criminal that's set to use their powers for evil, you'll get an individual that wants to use their powers to stop them.

That's how vigilantes were born.

Then comes the legalization of powers and the individuals who use it to protect the system. That is how you get villains (people outside the law) and heroes (people following the law).

Violà. You have the same set of problems with a new feature: quirks.

How does this connect to AFO, you ask?

AFO's origin explains the complexity of the bnha universe, comparing it to our own. It also shows that there is always a context, as in situational factors that contribute to a person being the way that person is.

That doesn't excuse who AFO became, tho. The general rule dictates that we are responsible for our choices and actions in the face of the reality we were presented with. Maybe not while we are kids, because we don't have the maturity to make those choices. However, the moment we become adults, we cannot blame our choices anymore in the world around us. If you have the frame of mind to stop hurting people and you don't, that is on you. You chose to perpetuate the violence.

Of course, simplifications don't do any good and bnha makes that clear too.

A tale of heroes that are always good and villains that are always bad is just that, fiction. When the bnha society started believing that said fiction was their reality, that's when the real struggle of bnha started. Villains and heroes stopped being perceived as such. The dehumanization went both ways. The heroes became untouchable gods and the villains unforgivable demons. The civilians all excused their apathy and lack of action by saying they couldn't do anything in such a world.

People ran away from their responsibility by putting all the weight on the heroes shoulders and ignoring whatever felt uncomfortable or mildly disturbing.

See how quickly we were able to analyze bnha?

That's what I meant when I said at the start that AFO's backstory is crucial to the story frame of the manga. If AFO had been a villain just because, then you'd have a story of evil without reason that would validate the idea of extreme moralities of black and white. Since that's not the case, we got more depth in general.

It all connects to the message Horikoshi is trying to communicate. If you compare bnha to other shonens, you'll get the feeling that they all have something to say about that violence, about the way the world is structured and how people move around it.

It's a basic of storytelling, sure. It's just that now you have the knowledge to properly study bnha, or something like that.

At some point I'll have to reread the manga and pay attention to AFO's origin... That's everything for now, tho. Hope you enjoyed it whdhjsbdjd

#bnha #mha #my hero academia #boku no hero academia #shan's bnha opinions #shan's mha opinions #bnha spoilers #mha spoilers #afo #all for one

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roseclaw · 1 month

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ALLSANG BINGO

Who: Nie Huaisang What: AllSang Bingo! When: the entire month of May Where: AO3, tumblr, bluesky, twitter, dw How: any type of media

Download a copy of this bingo card to play!

Rules and FAQ under the cut!

Rules:

1. All prompts are open to interpretation as long as they focus on Nie Huaisang. He can be alone, in a romantic ship, or in a platonic ship. Poly is also okay.

2. The goal is to make a bingo on your card. (Or more than one bingo if you're ambitious.) There are multiple ways of earning a bingo: horizontal, vertical, blackout, four corners, etc.

3. Squares are marked off toward a bingo by filling the prompt within the square. Multiple squares can be combined in one work.

4. You can submit fics, song mixes, art, vids, podfics, picspams, rec lists, icons, and meta. Make sure all items posted to the collection are in line with AO3's ToS.

5. Bingos can be made up of any combination of media. You do not have to do all fic, all art fills, etc. to make bingo - ex: you could submit 2 pieces of art, 1 mix and 2 fics to make a line bingo. Additionally, a bingo does not have to be all in one pairing.

6. Any rating or pairing is allowed as long as it is properly tagged. This includes incest and dark pairings. No character bashing will be allowed.

7. Anything publicly posted previously may not be used to fill a square. Each fill for your bingo must be newly-created media.

8. You can reuse any square on your card as many times as you want.

9. Fills can be posted where you see fit (tumblr, bluesky, twitter (x), dw, AO3, etc.).

10. Posting will be for the entire month of May. The collection on AO3 is open now and will be revealed on May 1 and close June 1.

FAQ

What is accepted? - Anything including Nie Huaisang as the main character - Any rating - Any genre - Crossovers and fusions

What is not allowed? - AI generated media - Character bashing - Previously posted stories

Is a fill limited to fic only? No. While fic is used as a shorthand you are not limited to fic. Bingo squares can be filled with fic, art, icons, recs, picspams, vids, podfic, mixes, or meta. However, only media that does not violate AO3's ToS is allowed in the collection.

Is there a collection on AO3? Yes! It is here! The collection will be revealed on May 1 and close on June 1. Your creations do not need to be posted to this collection.

How should I tag my bingo fills? Tag with #AllSangBingo and any other appropriate tags

Can I write a series? Yes.

Can I write, vid, etc. as part of a team? Yes.

Can I use a story I have co-written as a bingo fill for my own bingo card? If your co-writer doesn’t mind, yes.

I have a story posted previously that fits one of my prompts, can I use it? No, everything for the bingo should be newly written and tagged as written for this event since the goal of the challenge is to create more Nie Huaisang works.

Can I combine my fill with a fill from another challenge? Yes, as long as it has not been posted previously, is clearly labeled as being for AllSang Bingo as well as the other challenge, AND that the mods of the other challenge are okay with it.

#nie huaisang #allsang #sangcheng #xisang #wangsang #sangyao #niecest #sangxian #gusu trio #all the rarepairs #and ships i do not recall the namesmush for #allsangbingo

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ananke-xiii · 3 months

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My ranking of SPN seasons (based only on their PLOT) pt. 1

Okay so I've finally watched all 15 seasons of Supernatural and, I must say, what a journey!

The show has releaved itself to be a pleasant surprise, I've learned a lot thanks to it. I must confess that I had strong prejudices against it and had been avoiding it all these years because I thought it was... well, tbh not worthy.

Of course, since now I am here writing about it, it's useless to say that I was wrong. It's not the perfect show, sometimes it's not even a good show, but for sure it's an enjoyable, interesting and exciting show.

The following ranking is based solely on the plot (and subplot) of each seasons and my personal opinion about it.

15. Season 14: Frankly, I don't know what to say about this season, LOL. There is no real plot. We are led to believe that the story will revolve around Dean being possessed by Michael, okay. Basically Michael!Dean from the AU goes to Earth 1 to create an army of monsters (?) but then says bye bye to Dean and leaves (??), but oh wait, no, he re-possesses him (???), and then the army disappears (???) and then he gets trapped in Dean's mind and then he posseses Rowena (???????????). In the mean time, Jack is sick, dies, gets rescued by Castiel who makes a crazy deal with The Empty, then kinda goes crazy and starts killing angels (?????) and then gets killed by God. He also accidentally kills Mary Winchester (???????) in the process. I dont' get it, okay? Maybe it's just me! At any rate, we discover that Michael can possess whoever he wants since he easily changes his vessel without consent multiple times. This fact alone contradicts the whole of season 5 (Dean is the chosen one, the one and only Michael's vessel, hello writers?). Finally, the whole Nick/Lucifer thing. I get it, Mark Pellegrino was GREAT as Lucifer, I loved him, I wanted to see more of him. But his subplot was nonsense and meh. So, yes, the plot was bad. Reeeeeal bad.

14. Season 15: One of the the fun things about Supernatural is, for me, the fact that it doesn't take itself too seriously. Throughout the whole series we have continuous meta incursions and I find that extremely interesting. However, I think that with the final season they went too far. The plot (kiling the manipulative and frankly insufferable God) is stimulating enough until the episode named "The Trap". After that, I felt like the writers didn't know how to fill the remaining episodes until the end and just wasted half of the show on basically nothing really noteworthy. Also, one could totally see that the main worry was not the plot but trying to tie all loose ends off. It was unsuccessful. I would have preferred a well-executed plot rather than a plot that aimed at"filling in" all the gaps of a 15-year-old TV show (read: it's almost impossible, also unnecessary). The final episode was just bad, like really really bad. The plot was resolved by episode 19, so the last episode really felt like something made to end the show forever, kill everyone off and never talk about them anymore. It didn't make any sense at all.

13. Season 7: I didn't hate season 7 per se, but the plot was not great. Like season 15, the season starts off strong with the main event but then it drags itself out until the end. There's no meat in between. The gist is to kill the Leviathans, the subplot is Sam's confronting Lucifer's mental abuse. The most interesting stuff (aka the introduction of the Word of God) happens around the last 3 episodes. This is one of those seasons that are needed to "connect" different points in the myth-arc, however it was not done brilliantly. I felt like Bobby's death was not necessary to the events, it was poorly done for emotional sake. The"Dick jokes" are funny at first, then they are tiresome. After a while I couldn't take the characters seriously, it was all one big dick joke after another, please stop. At the end, we find out that the whole subplot was utterly useless: Castiel shifts the Sam's mental problem from Sam's mind to his, goes crazy in exchange, ultimately to be cured once he's in Purgatory. I'm sorry, what? Also: the Leviathans (the close-to unkillable monsters the heroes have been fighting for the whole series) become just "regular monsters" and that's it. I'm sorry, WHAT?!

12. Season 3: This season contains arguably some of the best episodes of the whole show. The 2007-2008 Writers Guild of America Strike affected the way the plot was planned (I presume) but I think it was for good. As a result, the plot is clean, simple, easy: the heroes need to rescue Deam from the demonic deal he has made. I like when there's a sort of "deadline" in the plot, it keeps things interesing for me. That's it, that's the plot. There's no subplot either. So why this low in the ranking? WELL. The first half of the show made me very uncomfortable. The jokes sounded very, very problematic and I had a very hard time finishing the episodes. Now I know this has nothing to do with the plot, but hey. It made me feel uneasy and the ranking is mine so ranking n. 12 it is!

11. Season 6: I appreciated the writers' attempt with this season. Basically, both the plot and the two main subplots make zero to no sense until the end, when we discover "the truth". As a matter of fact, until episode 19 we don't really understand what's going on. The plot seems to be the hunting of the Alphas and, eventually, of the Mother of them all: Eve. One subplot seems to be a civil war in Heaven, although we are only told about it and never see anything. The other subplots is Sam being soulless + the fact that now he's been hunting with his resurrected grandfather who, in turn, was resurrected by Crowley and now works under him (LOL). For the plot and the first subplot to make sense the missing link is this: Castiel and Crowley have been pulling the strings all along without the heroes' knowing. For the subplot... well, for the subplot (Sam being soulless), too LOL. Cas and Crowley are having an "affair of sorts" and plan to open the door to Purgatory to take souls from there and use them as... energy? Yeaaah. I liked the "whoaa I didn't see it coming" factor. HOWEVER, for it to REALLY make sense one needs to acknowledge Cas and Crowley relationship. Like, seriously, the reason why everything starts to go wrong (and interesting) is because Dean feels "betrayed" by Cas. Which makes zero sense. But I digress. What I want to say is that the turning point of the plot is understated unless you get the "romantic" implications. It's left to the audience to get it but, honestly, I didn't get it at first so I didn't get why the characters were so angry at Cas and why Cas didn't tell Dean about his affair with Crowley. Then when you get it, you get it but anyway the plot is not the best the show has to offer.

#supernatural meta #supernatural #spn #spn meta #spn analysis #dean winchester #destiel #crowley #drowley #bobby singer #sam winchester #castiel #spnfandom #spn season 14 #spn season 6 #spn seaon 7 #spn season 15 #spn season 3

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raven-at-the-writing-desk · 1 year

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How are dorms different? Pupils take the same lessons, so why is it so important? Maybe it was stated in the beginning but…

Oooh, thank you for the super interesting topic of discussion! 👀

To begin with, there are superficial differences such as valuing a certain trait or looking up to a specific figure in the Great Seven over the others. (For example, students of Scarabia revere the Sorcerer of the Sands, who was known for his mindfulness it seems that the students try to uphold that mindful spirit.) Let's also keep in mind that each dorm itself is a unique setting with its own vibes and history! Additionally, we know of a few traits that dorm members generally share or talents that students of a particular dorm have:

Heartslabyul has nothing of note that I can recall 😅

Savanaclaw tends to have athletic students. Because of this, they dominate in sporting events and competitions.

Octavinelle and Scarabia are said to have very intelligent students; they are often competing with each other for the top marks. Scarabia's students tend to excel in astrology.

Pomefiore produces students that are skilled in curses and potion-making; one of the requirements to become Pomefiore's dorm leader is brewing a potent poison. Generally, Pomefiore students put forth considerable effort to maintain their looks and their manners.

Ignihyde's students tend to be introverted and geeky; they also work well with technology.

Diasomnia usually receives the magical all-rounders or those particularly gifted with magic. However, their students also tend to be extremely arrogant and think of themselves as better than students of the other dorms.

Beyond the details I just listed, I don't think the dorms are honestly that different (based on the information we have right now). The short and simple (and meta) answer to your question would be that the dorms exist because "it makes the game easier to market". Breaking a large cast into smaller groups with easily identifiable traits and color coding makes the characters stick in the mind better. (The almost immediate cultural association with a certain popular magic school with dorms that are heavily centered around certain traits is also sure to draw comparisons, and thus make TWST blow up by that association and word of mouth.)

Buuut that’s not a very exciting response, now is it? 🤔 Well, here’s my take (I’m basing this on my understanding of how public and private high schools, as well as some colleges/institutions of higher learning operate):

It’s not unusual for a boarding school like Night Raven College to have several different dormitories to house their students. Dorms are usually overseen by an RA (Resident Assistants), someone who also lives in said dorm and manages issues contained within it. The purpose of a dormitory is just to house students while they study, so technically it’s just... a glorified living space. Dorms in real life often aren’t often as segmented and defined by traits as NRC’s are; they’re usually named after some rich person that offered a sizable donation to the school or some important alumnus (though there ARE some dorms specifically for students of a similar major or broad organization to live together). In NRC’s case, the dorms are based on important figures: the Great Seven. It just so happens that the Great Seven are associated with certain traits, and so those trickled down into each dorm, as each was modelled after one member of the Seven. And, of course, the RA equivalent at NRC is the title of dorm leader.

From what I understand of NRC’s history, Pomefiore is considered the oldest dorm; this would imply that NRC did not start with seven dorms, because otherwise they would all be roughly the same in age. The logical sequence of events (to me) is that NRC was originally just a single dorm (Pomefiore), but as it grew over the years and gained prestige for itself, it had to expand to new dorms just to deal with the growing student population--and since Pomefiore honored the Beautiful Queen, why not look to the other six of the Seven for the other dorms? ... Then NRC probably capped off its enrollment so it could focus on educating the students their staff could handle.

Then we need to consider that the dorms may have formed over time just because... well, have you SEEN how NRC students behave? They’ll throw fists at a moment’s notice. Grouping them up by similar traits may help to alleviate the fights that break out on campus; when you’re part of a group and living with like-minded individuals, it can minimize conflicts (but unfortunately, it has the potential side effect of isolating students from those with different views than them, which is probably why they continue to have mixed classes to up the exposure).

With the practicality of dorms sorted out, let’s now look to how the dorms may impact the students’ academic and professional lives.

I noticed that the Anon mentioned, “Pupils take the same lessons, so why [are dorms] so important?” That’s an interesting question to pose because we actually don’t know a ton about NRC’s curriculum or their tracks of study 🤔 I’m guessing that this conclusion was reached because the gameplay of TWST (Alchemy, Flying, Magic History) has mixed classes, but I believe that the gameplay is not reflective of the classes the characters actually take because it would contradict the lore given to us elsewhere. For example, in the ongoing Glorious Masquerade event, it is said that second years taking Magic History learn about the Just Judge (which explains why the first years are not familiar with him yet). It is also said (this time in the main story) that first year classes focus on theory rather than doing actual magic, which is reserved for later years. I’m sure there are a lot more examples I could think of, but these two alone effectively illustrate why it wouldn’t make sense to toss students of different grade levels into most of the same classes.

It hasn’t been confirmed whether all pupils take the exact same coursework; in fact, I’d actually argue the opposite is true. I believe that there is a set of “base” or foundational coursework (like Magic History, Alchemy, and Flying) that every student is required to take to graduate; these subjects would be like the equivalent of math, English, history, and science in the real world. These would be “on level” (ie everyone in the same year takes the same class). However, just like in the real world, I think that every student has the opportunity to customize their track via electives so they can pursue their specific interests after high school. These are the classes that would be mixed, as there are instances (irl) of accelerated younger students having already met the prerequisites for more advanced classes. A notable example of a NRC elective is Poison Making, which appears to be an upper level Potionology course; in Cater’s Lab Wear vignettes, it is revealed that Cater, Vil, and Lilia are enrolled in it. Master Chef/Culinary Crucibles is another major example, as it seems to be an elective that students can take to prepare them for making their own meals and taking care of their nutritional needs after graduation.

Typically, the way you choose electives is broken down into different priorities. Older students and students in honors programs tend to get first pick over younger students (who still need to complete prerequisite courses) and non-honors students (who usually have less rigorous coursework). Additionally (in the case of colleges and universities), priority for certain classes may be given to students of a particular major. As an example, life science courses like biology and anatomy and physiology may have more slots for premed majors and other majors directly related to the life sciences before like... a journalism major may have a chance for the same courses. This is because it’s more important for students of certain majors to get their requires coursework done other students interested in taking a course due to individual interest.

“... Okay, that’s all fine and dandy, but what does this have to do with the importance of the dorms?”

Weeell... If we consider all of the previously discussed information as a whole, isn’t it possible that the dorms could actually factor into the students’ future prospects??

Like... think about it.

Each dorm is already designed from the get-go to focus on specific traits and skills, such that is it easy to immediately identify what the strengths of a person may be based SOLELY on glancing at the armband color they have. Then add in how electives are chosen. If you’re already sorting the students into dorms that define what their strengths may be, wouldn’t it make sense to give those students... priority for classes which will further improve those strengths (ie give a Pomefiore student, already presumed to be skilled in potions-making, priority for the Poisons Making elective course)?

And what about their mandatory fourth year internships? I’m assuming the hiring companies will want the best people for the jobs, but it may be difficult for them to parse through so many resumes. They could very well use dorms to help filter through applications, as some dorms are more well-versed in some subjects over others. (I realize that this disregards individual differences and sounds unfair on paper, but this is, unfortunately, sometimes the reality of the job hunt process.) Alternatively, NRC could use the specific traits each dorm boasts to help “sell” their students to employers for internship opportunities (ie NRC to a potion making company: “Pomefiore’s students are skilled at making potions, just like the Beautiful Queen!”).

Finally, let’s talk connections. If dormitories really do play a role in future prospects as I just described, then it means each dorm has a whole network of alumni in fields of specialization which can perpetuate the cycle. Picture a Pomefiore NRC graduate that goes on to start their own Magic Pharmaceuticals company, then their alma mater contacts them to ask about sending some interns their way. The graduate is more likely to say yes, and even more so to students of their same old dorm because the Pomefiore graduate already has established loyalty to said dorm.

Anyway...! I know that was a lot to take in, but I hope I was able to explain my thoughts well enough 😅 I kind of got excited when I saw this ask, so my fingers were struggling to properly type out all the speculation and ideas I had running around in my brain.

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possibleplatypus · 2 years

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I just saw this article and I'm somehow even more disappointed.

But it turns out no one warned Captain America himself that a very personal piece of his history was about to be broadcast to the world. "I laughed my ass off," Ruffalo tells EW. "I'm like, 'Does someone need to talk to Captain America about this?' I haven't. I was afraid he was going to have it cut. Too late now, buddy. The cat's out of the bag."

Like... yes? He would have it cut because it's such bullshit? The fact that Chris who genuinely cares about Steve and who played that character for ten years wouldn't approve should've been an indicator.

Reducing Steve to jokes about his virginity is such a cheap shot. Avoiding that Sam is Captain America is too. I don't even know anymore.

My friend.... this is really funny, because I also just read this article today, and I was all geared up to write a rant about it when you popped into my inbox 😂

This is one of the most asinine articles I've ever read 🤣🤣🤣 and I've read quite a few in regards to certain characters in the MCU.

First to address your point about Chris Evans-- I do feel pretty bad for him. I think he genuinely connected to and cared about Steve Rogers as a character. From the interviews in which he talks about Steve, and particularly Steve's relationship with Bucky, I can tell he really put a lot of thought into Steve's heart and frame of mind, and I think he really made MCU Steve Rogers his. Certainly any new film incarnations of Steve will be measured up against Chris' interpretation, haha.

It's just... I don't think Chris would have wanted Steve to be disrespected like this. Ruffalo himself said he thought Chris would have put a stop to it. So it's distasteful that everyone would just go ahead and make obsessing over Steve's virginity a big part of Jennifer's character while laughing at it all the while. (I can't read Chris Evans' mind-- maybe he doesn't care, though I like to think he does.) As a big fan of Steve, Disney has not failed to disappoint me time after time, and this is just the icing on the cake.

And Sam, our new Captain America! Why does the MCU seem to forget that they have a new Captain America? Is it because they're spending all their energy marketing another Captain? 🤔 You'd think he would be of more note to a Manhattan lawyer's mind since he stopped freedom fighters antifa terrorists from killing the GRC members? Hell the Hollywood Reporter forgot and Chris had to remind them. I do feel bad for Anthony Mackie. 🤦 Silver lining-- at least She Hulk isn't obsessing over Sam's virginity??

And yes, I do agree that reducing Steve to jokes about his ass and virginity are a cheap shot. And it shows how puerile and insipid the MCU has become. They have nothing of note to say and they grab for anything that they think is funny, to the point of making jokes of their most beloved characters. I know they're aiming for the widest audience imaginable, including kids, but that doesn't mean they need to write like high schoolers (though tbh I know fanficcers in high school that write better than these guys). What mature adult honestly gives a such a huge crap about whether or not a (thought to be) deceased public figure and national hero had sex?

The first paragraph had me rolling my eyes already:

Jennifer Walters is the hero we all deserve, because in the very first episode of She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, she finally gets to the bottom of one of Marvel's biggest mysteries: Did Captain America die a virgin?

And it just gets worse.

As She-Hulk continues, viewers can expect to see more hilarious, meta, and, yes, horny moments like this. "The horniness! That stuff is my favorite," Maslany says with a laugh. She loved how Jen is obsessed with Captain America's virginity because "it's the human side of him, the real side, the thing that she would [relate to]."

You're telling me that Jennifer Walters, a lawyer whose opening scene showed her practicing her closing argument for a case against powerful business interests that caused the deaths of innocent people-- that Jennifer Walters, who was standing up for the little guy-- that this strong, compassionate woman, is "obsessed" with Captain America's virginity of all things because it's the "human, real" side of him that she would relate to?? Not the side of him that stood up against bullies at great detriment to his own well-being, even before he had the serum? Not the side of him that curled over a grenade to protect his fellow soldiers? The side that went into a Nazi death camp solo to rescue his best friend (and hundreds of other POWs) when the army left them for dead? The side of him that leveled a Nazi-infested US intelligence agency? The side of him that did exactly what she was shown to be doing right at the beginning of her own show??

I think @luna-rainbow said it best-- "to reduce “the human side of Steve” (or anyone, for that matter) to whether or not they fucked…is seriously superficial, intrusive and just pathetic."

But the actress admits she had no idea this was something Marvel fans have been wondering for years, adding, "I love that that's how everybody's thinking. In that vein of that question, there's a lot more Easter eggs like that throughout the season. There's something later that's a really great moment with a cameo that I won't say what happens, but it's basically like a walk of shame that's really funny."

I shudder to imagine what horrors await us.

And if any fans are wondering how credible Bruce's intel is, the debate can be put to rest: This is officially the true story of how Captain America lost his virginity. "We didn't set out thinking that we were going to be able to answer it," Gao tells EW. "It used to just be a running joke, that it's going to be a lifelong obsession for Jen, that this is the one thing that keeps her awake at night. It actually used to be in the show a lot more, where in every episode there would be some little reminder, like you'd see that her search history was this, and she was always in asides talking to other characters where everybody's reaction was like, 'She's talking about this again.'"

You're kidding me right? Does nobody on this team see how creepy it is for a grown woman to be obsessed lifelong with a dead man's sex life? Compare it to a random male character obsessing every night over whether or not Natasha had been a virgin when she died. And for this to be the thing that keeps her awake at night? Out of all the things she's experienced??

But then Gao got the definitive answer — and permission to use it — from Marvel's mastermind. "It was actually Kevin Feige who said, 'I know the answer. I can tell you. We can do the answer,'" Gao recalls. "And I was like, 'You have the answer, and we can tell everyone?' And he was like, 'Yeah.' So this is Marvel canon. This is straight from Kevin Feige."

SO IT WAS YOU, KEVIN FEIGE!!! Honestly when I read this I almost felt relieved. If it's Feige's own fatuous headcanon, I can ignore it. Why does the status of Steve Rogers' virginity take up so much of his headspace that he feels the need to insert it into a show that has nothing to do with him? And they were going to have it in every episode? Why?! PLEASE tell me they aren't doing that anymore. I don't want anyone in the MCU to ever utter Steve's name again.

#asks answered #she hulk #she hulk critical #steve rogers #kevin feige is such a creep #marvel meta #chris evans #disney keep steve rogers' name out of your mouth 2022 #long post #kevin feige stop creeping on steve 2022 #kevin feige goes to bed at night rubbing his hands and cackling about how he can ruin more beloved characters #mcu

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ninjakk · 1 year

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Hi.Your meta make me so happy because your meta wrote to the point of how wangxian love is mutual and wei ying had feelings and loved lan zhan back in his past life also.

I would like to ask you something from the novel that I didn't catch the meaning and have been in my mind for a while. It is the scene I didn't remember the exact dialogue but before wei ying jump from the coffin, he touch lan zhan face with his hands which had his(wei ying) blood when drawing the array and the way dialogue said is wanted to point out something?

Thank you for your metas. Hope you have a nice day.

Hi Anon,

Thank you for your lovely comments about my meta 🥰 I'm glad you enjoy it.

Yes! WX were obsessed with each other and whoever says otherwise simply didn't read the novel very well 🤷🏼‍♀️

So I'm assuming the part you are referring to is this scene in Guanyin Temple:

He was much taller standing on the coffin. Lan WangJi put his guqin away and looked up at him with the pair of light eyes.

Wei WuXian looked down and couldn’t help but touch the fair face with his right hand, adding a few blood-red marks, by accident or on purpose. Lan WangJi didn’t worry too much about it, “Come down.”

Wei WuXian hopped down with a grin before he was caught right inside those arms.

Chapter 108 - ExR

It's funny, because I actually love this scene and it's one I want to write about at some point. I think it's just so cute how natural their rhythm is when working together. WX have had a natural synchronicity with each other for a long time, as we've seen when they work so seamlessly together many times now - even in WWXs first life. But because they are finally completely in tune with each other, body and soul - it's just even more beautiful.

I think the main point of this tiny scene is just to show how comfortable they are with each other now, especially WWX with LWJ. If you look back throughout some of their earlier interactions, WWX is very conscious about getting LWJ dirty, especially with his blood.

Wei WuXian could barely manage to stand, holding onto Lan WangJi’s arm. Seeing that the white clothes that Lan WangJi had just changed into were dyed red by his blood again, he couldn’t help but reached out to wipe them, worried in an ill-timed way, I made his clothes dirty again.

Chapter 88

WWX is about to lose consciousness, but he's still making a fuss over LWJ, which is adorable. He knows that LWJ always looks pristine and probably prefers to stay clean, so he's concerned about marking his clothes with blood.

A heavy scent of blood also felt stuffed in his chest. It was more than uncomfortable. He was worried that he might cough blood onto the clean-loving Lan WangJi again.

Chapter 90

Again, WWX has just regained consciousness and he's trying hard not to cover LWJ in his blood again.

So back to your question, about WWX possibly 'inadvertently' wiping blood on LWJ's cheek. I personally always felt this was a really sweet gesture in a way. Now he knows LWJ loves him unconditionally, that he will accept anything and everything he gives him, WWX is comfortable enough not to worry about getting him dirty anymore.

It could also be a way for WWX to tease LWJ a little, smearing him with a bit of his bodily fluid, making the usually pristine HanGuang-Jun less than presentable... Marking him with his blood. And we all know WWX loves to rile him up.

But overall, I think it's probably up to the reader's own interpretation 😊

Thanks again Anon! Hope you u have a lovely day as well 😘

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wangxian #mdzs novel #anon ask #answered ask

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esther-dot · 5 months

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why do ppl keep saying sandor was sansa’s sexual awakening? it’s so weirrrrrd

This is something I'm aware of, but I hadn't read the theories, so I found a couple, and I'm gonna share some quotes and links so you can read the full metas if you want, but with the understanding that y'all are gonna come and bitch in my inbox, and not try to argue with any shippers about this, ok? ok!

Decide if this is something you actually want to expose yourself to or not, anon. 🙃

So, here's one of the earliest places I see that statement (2014) in a reblog to a post:

My point is, Sandor is intricately tied with her sexual awakening (for lack of a better word) in a way that Petyr is not. Petyr is actively trying to be a part of that, which can qualify as sexual abuse, whereas Sansa herself is associating, at least on a subconscious level, Sandor with these various instances I mentioned above. (link)

And I'm guessing it's an evolution of this post/others like it from 2013:

That said, Milady has to declare that, speaking as a clinician with knowledge of real life mismemory cases, GRRM’s depiction is messy and makes bloody little sense! Sansa’s mismemory doesn’t resemble a mismemory as much as it resembles a sexual fantasy. And Milady would go even further and contend that GRRM has taken an utterly typical and comprehensible teenage first sexual fantasising and passed it off as mismemory for narrative purposes. [...] There are dozens of distinct variations of this experiment, and all of them show the extent of human memory’s fallibility and unreliability, nothing else. But bear in mind that for a mismemory to be considered as such, it has to come out of the mental realm into the realm of reality, otherwise it’s fantasising, pure and simple. Thus, as far as Sansa’s imaginary kiss remains in her thoughts, it’s only her imagination at work. We cannot say yet if GRRM will decide that it will develop into a permanent mismemory or will be dispelled either by herself or Clegane, but we do know that the developing of her sexuality that started with it hasn’t finished yet, and her fantasy has already started to disconnect from the Blackwater, moving on to another stage where sexual dreams take place, dreams that have the purpose of rehearsing attachment-related scenarios during sleep, to process affective and mental content from daytime life, and that, were this not fictional, should be already explicit at this point. (This post is simply too long and technical for me to relay it all so I will share the link if you are morbidly curious--but again, I'm trusting y'all. Let's keep our feelings in-house!)

Here is another long meta from 2016:

I do not in any way negate Sansa being attracted to men and boys in aGoT before this erotic fantasy of aSoS. Infatuations, puppy love, a crush, admiration, limerence and love can befall elementary school aged children. Children can experience chemistry and attraction. I do not deny that Sansa is subconsciously sexually drawn to a man, such as Sandor, before this Loras daydream. What I do point out is that there is a marked alteration from the (prepubescent) romantic fantasies of Sansa in aGoT to those of an explicit erotic nature in aSoS. Her menarche at the end of aCoK was the physical evidence of adolescence, while the Loras fantasy is the mental evidence of it. And it is very peculiar that it happens for the first time, right in the middle of that particular song, on which GRRM puts that much emphasis by writing it in capital letters. It suggests a link between Sansa hearing the song to the sexual maturation of Sansa to a new level, literary or effectively. Definitely most interesting though is that lo and behold, in Sansa II, just one chapter later, we first learn of Sansa’s invented unkiss about Sandor, exactly like we learn a chapter after Dany being kissed by a bear to have re-awakened sexual desires. [...] Fundamentally, both Loras’ kiss and Sandor’s Unkiss are fantastical in nature here. The maiden Sansa is not exposed to an actual kiss from either a knight or a bear yet (unlike Dany). It is one of song only. The immense difference is that with Loras she is conscious of it being imagined, while Sandor’s kiss is a false memory she believes has actually occurred. [...] The bear-maiden song’s appearance heralds Sansa’s sexual maturation into that of the erotic fantasy, which is set not long after her menarche, most likely around her ovulation time, and therefore is reminiscint of the masculine maturation where the first ejaculation archetypically coincides with an erotic wet dream. (link)

I'm not sure the year for this, but it's from the "Pawn to Player" (fandom famous) essays:

Sex: Sandor is in between a menstrual pain and her first period. I have a hard time thinking this is a coincidence. With the events and dreams that come later, this is symbolic of Sandor’s part in Sansa’s sexual awakening. In this case, he is literally in the middle of it. [...] Sex: Where do I even begin? Well, let’s start by location. It takes place not only in Sansa’s room, but on her bed. The bloody cloak is another obvious symbol. A bloody sheet is often a sign of girl losing her virginity. A cloak works just as well. In a slightly disturbing example, after the song, Sandor’s tears are described as wetness that was not blood. I’ll just walk away from that double entendre. [...] But more importantly, she doesn’t seem to feel like a victim. She adds in the unkiss and later has erotic dreams about him. (link)

So, you get the idea. I believe it was sansxn shippers who originated/popularized a more sympathetic reading of Sansa and the idea that she would learn from LF and become a political player—something people still won’t accept—hence that “pawn to player” thing, so I appreciate that, although the direction they went with that is just, not one I can agree with. They also have very sympathetic readings of the Hound which means we get a twisted version of “the unkiss” and that made some reinterpret the assault? And then all of Sansa memories of it? I find it an easier thing to conclude that Sansa can’t quite accept that the man who at point saved her intended to rape her, so she remembers something far more manageable, (the unkiss), but they, sometimes in an effort to give her agency, say imagining she was kissed is a sign that Sansa wanted the Hound to kiss her. The problem with that is that this quickly becomes victim blaming, and I’ve had Sansxns in my inbox in the past arguing the Hound didn’t intend to rape Sansa and didn’t assault her—so apparently, it also leads to full fledged denial of what was happening in that scene.

If you imagine the Hound as a misunderstood hero, rather than a violent man who brags about killing women and children, their interpretation is easier to understand. But that ignores that there is a reason Sansa is frightened by him, and it isn’t merely his appearance, it’s because he is dangerous. Back in AGOT he rode down a little boy and murdered him, remorselessly. I actually argue that the Sansa under the Hound's cloak is a callback to that, it is a damning indictment of him, not romantic, so again, we just interpret the ideas behind their interactions very differently (link). In that post, I also point out, she thinks positively of Tyrion and LF too, not because she's in love with them, because this poor girl has been surrounded by enemies for so long that their moments of intervening on her behalf are all she has to cling to. Anyway, what seemed to be the refrain was the significance of “the unkiss” and that it means actually, Sansa is attracted to the Hound instead of him just being a perv who traumatized her/threatened her life repeatedly. So, apparently, that’s what they mean by calling him her “sexual awakening.”

#dot chat #anti sansan #anti the hound

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shadowedvales · 1 month

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jane’s appearance vastly changes after season one. her face, features and overall mannerisms begin majorly altering from what we see in canon, versus my own interpretation of her.

hair. we love the curls. <3 but when her hair first starts growing in, the sensation is so foreign to her, and it resembles something akin to phantom pain. she hates it. the feeling that something is there when it shouldn’t be. her scalp is incredibly sensitive, and in the beginning, she does not take care of it in the way that she should. after the first three months, hopper has to cut a relatively large chunk out of the left side, because she hasn’t been brushing it, or tending to it, and it becomes a matted, strangled mess. then it becomes uneven, which she hates even more, so she asks him to cut the rest off and she basically starts from square one again. overtime she does properly tend to it, but it’s only about five months after the cut from hopper, does she get used to the feeling, and come to appreciate her curls. jane always has curly hair. when it starts growing out more, it becomes wavy rather than ringlets. never once in her life does she pick up a hair straightener. not to even test it out. her hair becomes so important to her, that the thought of something happening to it (ie a hot device burning it all off) really worries her.

scarring. it’s already pretty established on this blog that closing the gate affected jane physically and mentally more than the series portrayed. (meta found here!) those veins that appear on her face whilst closing the gate, also form patterns across her entire body; hands, feet, legs, stomach. although they all do fade overtime, the markings on her left hand, and around her neck never disappear. while she hates them, hates that the upside down has physically scarred her, she never attempts to cover them up.

teeth. between seasons three and four, jane gets braces. like her hair, it takes a long time for her to properly tend to her teeth, brush them regularly and understand they need constant upkeep. in the lab, these things were all done for her, and she became very accustomed to not having to do it herself. her overall hygiene is relatively bad during her time in the cabin. i love millie’s vampire teeth, and keep them canon, but i also imagine her bottom centre teeth to be rather crooked. after her first trip to the dentist, she needs to have three teeth extracted due to them rotting. they’re all in the back though, so the gaps are not very noticeable.

posture. her back is always ridiculously straight, having near perfect posture, especially for a child her age. stemming from the fact that she was given no opportunity to slouch or fully relax while in the lab.

skin. jane is extremely pale. she has a vitamin d deficiency due to her lack of exposure to sunlight, and if she’s in the sun too long without proper protection, she burns incredibly fast. jane also hates make-up. she hates the way it makes her face feel. sometimes she will wear lip gloss; on very special occasions she may wear mascara, but that's the extent of it. the most make-up she ever wore in her life was when she was part of kali's gang. skincare falls under the same category of her hair and teeth: it was done for her in the lab, so she's not used to doing it herself. things like shaving, moisturising and plucking her eyebrows etc do not become of interest to her until her early twenties.

strength / muscle. jane has poor motor function and development as a result of growing up so sheltered to physical activity. her muscle development is very minimal and she has little coordination between her mind and physical movement. ie, hand-ball requires use of both mind and action: when to bounce the ball and an intended destination. she struggles with hand - eye coordination, and it would take her much longer to succeed in any sort of activity such as this given the lack of experience. in terms of fitness, she would be very behind in her age range, and would not be able to run very far before getting tired. she is only successful in this sort of area when she’s running on adrenaline.

eyes. jane experiences temporary blindness when she returns from the void. this gets better overtime as she comes into the strength of her powers and no longer needs the bath / blindfold / picture of somebody to find them, but sometimes it does still happen. when this does occur, her eyes turn a bright white, losing their pigmentation. her sight always returns within a half hour, but sometimes that sheer white lingers for days. she can see, but her actual hues can take a while to fade back in.

hands. the middle and thumb nail on her right hand became completely rotten from frostbite during her month living in the snow, and they no longer grow. her hand was immobile for a good few weeks, but it did end up healing for the most part, aside from the two nails. and those fingers do cramp up sometimes. she likes to wear nail polish frequently to hide the black rot, but the skin and cuticle always has a blue/black tinge.

jewellery. jane actually wears a decent amount of jewellery! she loves wearing fancy clips and bows in her hair, alongside colourful scrunchies. she always wears a simple silver chain around her neck, with an opal pendant which belonged to terry, gifted to her by andrew. she never takes it off except for when she’s sleeping (as one night she woke up with it all tangled tightly around her neck). she loves wearing multiple bracelets and rings at one time, and has a fancy jewellery box that she thrifted from downtown hawkins which stores her growing collection of accessories. jane does have her ears pierced! it was one of the first things she did when starcourt mall opened— nancy took her to get them done. it’s very rare you’ll find jane without at least three rings on, and a pair of fancy earrings in her ears. even if the situation doesn’t call for fancy jewellery, you can bet she’ll show up in it.

#STUDY.#i will never not be annoyed that the d*ffers had jane close the gate.#and then had no repercussions afterwards.#like. when i first watched that scene the night it aired. i fully thought she was gonna die.#but then a month later?? all was good?? nah bruv.#her clothes are very s3 based though! that style was so so perfect for jane.#loud vibrant colours mixing with her jewellery.#we do not talk abt her s4 fashion in this household!#i will probably add more onto this later as my jane muse is starting to get real high again.#but yeah. i can picture her SO CLEARLY in my head.#i need an actress who LOOKS LIKE THIS.

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