#especially pre-Robin Bruce

[enobariasteeth]

I love that Batman is so popular with macho toxically masculine men because Bruce Wayne is arguably the saddest, most pathetic, wet cat, weirdo little freak to ever be written

#and all his kids are ALSO sad weird little freaks #'Oh Batman isn't for girls. he's such a badass. stone cold. no emotions.' #baby girl are we comprehending the same character? #he has so many emotions and they're all BAD #this is the same man who collects every sad looking child he sees #who. instead of being a normal 21 yr old. decided to dress up as a bat and fight criminals #for arguably no reason?? like yeah Gotham was really bad but there wasn't a joker or riddler or poison ivy #he just... did that... for some reason #he also let a 9 yr old bully him into allowing said child to ALSO fight crime #Robert Pattinson's interpretation was SO accurate #and they were MAD ABOUT IT #baby. Bruce Wayne sobbing and smearing black eyeliner on his face is SO BRUCE WAYNE #that's the EPITOME of Bruce Wayne #especially pre-Robin Bruce #any Batman that doesn't have a Robin should NEVER be portrayed as someone cool and badass #he's a weird little freak #with crippling depression #and mommy issues #batman #dc #dcu #batfam #bruce wayne #and all his girlfriends are 10x cooler than him #he doesn't charm women because he's cool and suave #he charms women because they see this sad little freak and go #'I need him carnally'

[covertblizzard]

I'm ignoring the slander and bullshit since it's retconned out of existence now anyway, but just focused on how Leslie's reaction after Steph's death where she "wasn't herself" and became "depressed" and "moody" made so much sense because this is the second Robin that died under her watch in a sense. A second death of a child, and this time one right under her watch and not halfway across the world.

#mypost #dc thoughts #leslie thompkins #leslie relationships with the robin is so special to me but especially steph for obvious reasons #especially since she was pre-med i believe #shown to have an interest in med at least bruce was showing her around when he was doing unsanctioned operations or whatever on ollie

[unfortunately-obsessed]

In this silly little head of mine, Jason never saw Bruce and Dick fight. When he came into the manor and Dick felt like he has been replaced, he had the conscience to not scream at Bruce in front of the kid that has no fault on the matter. So screamed and cried because Robin, his mantle and his parents' legacy, was robbed and given to another person without his consent, he threw hands at Bruce for that. But never in front of Jason. Because Jason can't be blamed by Bruce's actions.

And as general rule, Bruce doesn't raise his voice when he's close to kids. Especially his kids, and especially kids that are traumatized, that are still raw from leaving a particularly difficult situation. He took this from Batman, from the very first year, and carried the habit to his sons

But after Jason dies? They're both drowning in blind grief

So when they fight, and they do fight, viciously, Tim is the one that is there to see it. He's the one the see all the ugly bits, the imperfections behind the mask– not only that, I don't think Jason as a kid ever saw his father cry. Bruce knew neither of his sons should ever carry his emotional baggage.

But Tim? Oh, Bruce's grief is a weight that presses upon his chest until he chokes, and the manor is so haunted by Jason's absence, emerged in such deafening silence, that Tim inevitably heard Bruce cry more than once. Until his own chest became so tight he needed to go and comfort Bruce too. This or he was going to go insane. He needed to fix it all, somehow

While Dick and Jason got to make play and silly tricks while in patrol, Tim, Cass, Steph and Damian got a Batman extremely paranoid with protocols, rules and safety measurements. Dealing with Gotham is a serious commitment and is not to be joked about.

So there's that. I'm not saying either Dick or Jason got a perfect version of Bruce. And I'm not saying that, in either case, Bruce is/was a bad father. On the contrary, Batman must always be a good father because of what he represent– what he is as a character

But, yes, being raised by Bruce pre and post Jason's death is a completely different experience

And it got me thinking about how Jason reacts to this after he comes back

#jason todd #tim drake #dick grayson #bruce wayne #stephanie brown #cass cain #damian wayne #me!rambled #me!batfam

[bitterrobin]

the thing about Damian, especially pre-Robin, is that you have to straddle a line between child and cult assassin. He’s a nuanced character, you can’t dumb him down or simplify him. (On that note: PLEASE stop calling him feral! It’s pretty racist!)

You cannot make other characters be nice and understanding to him from the start like Dick or Tim or Jason. You cannot make them treat him like a toddler below his actual age.

You also cannot make him a irredeemable psychopath who exists only to hurt Tim and sow conflict. Because that’s just straight up not true. Fanon.

Writing Damian needs to be a balance between these, and he needs this nuance to be interesting.

If everyone treats him softly, then there’s no point for Damian’s personality as it is. He is rude and arrogant and abrasive for a reason. You could argue that he’s spoiled, but he’s also a child who was ripped from a culture he knew and thrust into the arms of a white family who don’t understand him and don’t make the effort to actually teach him their views. He’s rude and angry because there is no place for him there, not until Robin, and even then he is still subject to their judgements. If everyone treats him with kid gloves, then his attitude comes without justification and doesn’t make sense.

Please remember that when Damian first appeared in comics, everyone except Talia disliked him. Bruce wasn’t sure what to do with him, but he also was quick to scream obedience. From Dick’s inner monologue in Resurrection of Ras al Ghul and his very early interactions in Batman and Robin, he didn’t like the kid and thought him a burden to bear in the place of Bruce. Tim never once gave him mercy after the first meeting. His inner monologue and actions all speak of hate and teenage angst - some justified, some way out of line.

Damian’s anger is then reasonably apparent. He doesn’t fit in. He can’t. But he doesn’t seek violence. He doesn’t try to murder everyone in their sleep like some people think. It’s shocking that fanon’s interpretation of him is a boy who goes for the throat in every interaction. He’s snippy, but in every single comic I’ve read he’s never tried to fight someone without a justification. If he was an X-Men level telepath, then I’d argue that his actions would become worse if he really knew what people thought of him at first glance.

If you’re a child that knows he is hated, then you lash out. You test boundaries. You see what will make them exile you, hurt you. You are a brown boy surrounded by a white city in a culture that you don’t understand. You cannot see your mother again. They hate her. You cannot express yourself in a world that expects the worst. You are shackled by expectation and judgement. They won’t let you be, but they won’t let you go.

You are stuck.

And in this, you will always be.

#damian wayne #dc #robin #erm #anyway if you demonize him then I WILL call you out #reconsider your biases if you’re calling for the punishment of an Arab child #waspdoesathought #a painted bird named tamer

[i-cant-sing]

Okay so what about Brucie finding out he's got a daughter somewhere in Gotham, now this bby is smart (maybe a teen or pre teen or whatever) they never bothered to learn about their dad.

So I have this funny idea that if it's a fem yn she makes sure to strip and stay in a towel. Come on what is Gotham gonna think if the batfam chases a kid in a towel.

" dont you dare"

-cue yn getting ready to strip-

no cause that would be smart. Like eventually, some news channel is gonna be covering batman and his prey criminal of the week, and even if not the news, then theres always gonna be people ready to whip out their phone to record Batman beating up someone to pulp and upload it online. Only this time, its some teen- wearing a towel, running away from Bats.

Reader reaches a dead end, shes ready to strip to create controversy and escape, or at the very least, SCANDALISE Batman. Youre smart, like your father, but Bruce is smarter. Because he gets the batfam, the robins and literally every ally to shoot the cameras, or hack into the systems and shut down the lights around the areas, maybe even hack into each individual mobile and destroy all and any footage of you in a towel, because aint no daughter of Bruce Wayne will be photographed when shes indecent, especially not when he knows the type of creeps that Gotham is teeming with.

Ofc, youre caught after that, and Bruce wraps you up in his cape (more like a makeshift straitjacket) and then picks you up like a kitten as he puts you in his car and lectures you all the way home.

In all honesty, Jason thought it was funny. He laughed, gave you a highfive, got whacked on the head by Dick.

#yandere batman #yandere bruce wayne #yandere batfam #yandere #male yandere #yandere x darling #yandere male

[aalghul]

Thinking about Jason's outward expression of emotions. He tends to only get angry as a response to perceived injustice (the same way Bruce, Dick and most of the others do). But unlike some other characters, Jason rarely every gets wound up in it, nor does he get angry even when he sees injustice if the situation doesn't call for it. Some characters get angry first and then manage their response to whatever's more appropriate, but my interpretation has always been than Jason doesn't need to because he doesn't often begin with the rage. It's not a default, instinctual response for him in most situations. It seems to be that he becomes angry when there is a perpetrator (and specifically, of a crime that hurt people with less power than the perpetrator has, in some way) towards whom he can direct that righteous anger (righteous as in the cause is his drive for justice. I'm not discussing the rightfulness right now). Can he hurt the man who was about to hurt a woman enough that he doesn't dare to try imposing his power over another woman again? Can he do something, anything to stop a serial rapist who has already caused the suicide of at least one woman? But he doesn't possess the sort of blinding anger that could become a driving motivator for his actions outside of someone in front of him to punish. He doesn't need the anger (mostly because he will instead fixate on the crime without rage to fuel him).

The notable exception to this being his behaviour preceding his death (which is explicitly referred to as atypical for Jason by both Bruce and Alfred. The whole reason he's forced to take a break from Robin is because that anger is so unusual for Jason that Bruce and Alfred are worried about Jason's mental wellbeing).

We see in Lost Days that Jason’s default state has become (to the concern of Talia and Ra’s) seemingly unfeeling, and he shows signs of a persistent flat affect throughout Lost Days, with exceptions for when he sees injustice (which is responsive, as compared to the aloofness he uses as a constant state of defence -> see: his and Talia’s conversation after he killed for the first time, Talia being glad that his sense of empathy and justice were able to overcome his general coldness). Jason's aloofness was entirely a conscious defence, but at times he was consciously exercising it (his reaction to Tim in front of Talia vs alone).

We see him cry for himself a few times, which tends to be how Jason first reacts to what hurts him deeply. Then there's his cold hatred for Bruce, which can be taken as anger in the face of heartbreak and perceived betrayal. But that anger never goes very far: Jason couldn't even make himself blow up the batmobile. In the end, it's Jason's belief that he hates Bruce and must make demands of Bruce to force him to redeem himself in Jason's esteem that fuels him. Because Jason wants Bruce to redeem himself, even if it's unlikely that he will.

All throughout Lost Days and UTRH, Jason uses teasing/biting humour in a very Robin manner to direct attention to whatever he pleases, whether that be pulling attention away from vulnerabilities or drawing attention to distortions of the truth. This habit returns to Jason strongly around times when he breaks out of his apathetic state (when he’s killing people who hurt others, pretty much), but the undertones of coldness and derision even with that humour don’t leave. We can see in this habit especially how Jason's become a distortion of who he was as Robin. He's still witty and he still teases people and you can hear the humour in his voice. But now he's using that wit to say cruel things to Batman, deceiving him constantly, and his voice no longer has a youthful kindness to it.

One of the most Helena-esque character traits that Jason’s picked up (in fanon and reboot canon) is anger as an initial defence and reaction, actually. It’s nearly the opposite of Jason’s pre-flashpoint defensive state but is essential to Helena’s. It’s actually not surprising that this happened (even ignoring reboot kicking Jason’s character into a closet and superimposing much of Helena onto him) because of how DC pushed “angry” as Jason’s defining trait, and how fans have believed it for so long. It seems almost natural for a misconception this severe to happen, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because every action of Jason’s is misconstrued as proof for an angry temperament.

#if i'm using a very simplified version of various emotions it's because so does fanon and current canon. i've gotta match that i guess #sometimes i feel like i get too annoying about how different jason's anger is from fanon and newer canon bc there's nothing wrong with that #type of anger in a character but that's irrelevant. because jason's not the firey explosive seething 24/7 sort. he's much colder and far #more pathetic actually because he's lamenting not seething. this is essential. he wouldnt have been able to do any of lost days or utrh if #not for this. literally everything would have gone down a lot differently if jason had that kind of anger in him #jason todd

[punkeropercyjackson]

It's finally here!!!

Graphic design is my passion LMFAO but as i said i would do a while back,i've created a masterpost of all the Jason Todd content that's worth your time!This is rather long but he's existed since 1983 so!!

Base edit is my little sister @mayameanderings and tagging @coffeemilkcatz and @nanaonmars since they said yes when i asked if they wanted me to!Let's dive in then!

Batman 408-426,Detective comics 568-582,Superman annual 11,New Teen Titans 18-31,Blue Devil 19,Action comics 556 and 594,Batman Annuals 10-12 and Batman(The cult)for pre-reboot Robin!Jason my beloved

Nightwing Year One 101-106,New Teen Titans 55,Nightwing 10(1997)and Legends of the Dark Knight 100 for Dick and Jason siblinghood,Gotham Knights 34 for the short story of him and Alfred and Detective comics 790 for Bruce telling Cass about him as it takes place on Jason's birthday

Lost Days aka the Red Hood prologue

Under The Red Hood(2010)-The original comic is good in it's own right but the movie is leagues better written(Rare comic book adaption exception lmao)

Robin 177 and 182-183 for tha actual Tim and Jason beef instead of 'replacement' and 'enemy to caretaker' bs

Azreal:Death's Dark Knight 3(Can't give commentary on this one since i don't know Azreal like that,sorry)

Red Hood and The Outlaws(2016).Unlike the Utrh comic vs the Utrh movie,the original Rhato has nothing positive like the reboot

Not TECHNICALLY Jason BUT Duke is his favorite brother and Stephanie's the only Batfam girl he's truly close to so you should also stan them since he'd want you to /lh

Red Hood:Outlaw for the confirmation that Red Hood loves black women from infinity to infinityyyyy(meaning his love interest Dana Harlowe is introduced and featured as an mc in this run)

Urban Legends 1-6 for his return to the Batfam-Messy tbh but i do enjoy parts of it!

Task Force Z for him and Stephanie being a vigilante team and it has a prelude,that being Detective comics 1041-1043

Unkillables and Joker:The Man Who Stopped Laughing for Jayrose goodies and more of the above

Gotham War if you feel like turning off your brain to look at good art and laugh at dogshit writing

Red Hood:The Hill is his current run and when our queen Dana comes home from comics limbo!!!

The following is a misc list that's not required to include in your Jason knowledge but HIGHLY recommended you do just for fun!

Tiny Titans 23,29,33,39,45 and 47,Bombshells 46,60 and 62,Bombshells United 18-24,Lego Batman:Family Matters,A Death In The Family 2020,Batman:The Adventures Continue,Batman/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 5-6,The Doom That Came to Gotham 2023 and The Teen Titans Go episode 'The Best Robin'(Pre-Reboot Robin Jason rights!!!).Also look up 'Nobody cares about Tim Drake' if you don't know what that is,you'll love it

Jason also appears in the Lego DC Super Villains games that i highly recommend as well especially because my girlfriend is a mega fan of it and i don't know much about Lego Batman 3:Beyond Gotham but please avoid the aformentioned original Rhato,Red Hood:Outlaws and the Gotham Knights game as they feature extremely problematic writing not limited to but including racialized misogyny and ableism and do disservice to Jason himself anyway so you wouldn't want to consume them to begin with if you want to like him.I have mixed feelings on the Arkham Knight and Injustice games series' but they are objectively fairly good so i wouldn't say no to giving them a shot to see if you like them

And for the finale we have Wayne Family Adventures-Definitely a good read but to be totally honest it does Duke DIRTY and it sucks so much of DC to have marketed as his series to not only not follow through at all and make it an ensemble cast instead but ALSO deprive him of his actual characterization and story to make him a demure weak black boy stereotype.I won't judge you at all for liking it if you decided to read it or have already but kindly keep this in mind and consider joining me and my mutuals in our rewrite of it to give our Signal of Hope and Chaos the writing he deserves or at least support us through likes and reblogs!Happy Jason readings and have a good day💕

#jason todd #black jason todd #latino jason todd #afrolatino jason supremacy #trans jason todd #autistic jason todd #bipan jason todd #aroaceflux jason todd #robin #red hood #jaydana #jaytemis #jayrose #jayeddie #batfam #anti rhato #jason todd deserves better #antijayroy #antijoyfire #anti batcest #ditf #lost days #utrh #rhato #the outlaws #dead sidekicks force #the anomalies #jaysumm #💌 #summerposting

[vinelark]

Hi! Just curious, what are your favorite comic runs? I've finished the comics on my current to-read list so I love hearing what other people like!

hello! as always i’m sure i’m forgetting plenty of stuff but these are some of my favs, both completed and ongoing series.

completed:

batman: the knight (2022)

miniseries, 10 issues total, so it’s extremely readable and really satisfying in a short amount of time! i like zdarsky’s bruce a lot (i’ve also enjoyed his work on the current batman run) and carmine di giandomenico’s art is fantastic. also, it’s the ghost-maker origin story and bruce & khoa somehow get divorced at least twice before the story’s over. love that for them.

superman: american alien (2015)

anthology collection about clark kent through the years, a really great read for superman—digging into clark’s character rather than focusing on external plot!—with some great cameos too (like young adult clark getting mistaken for some rich guy named bruce wayne at a yacht party, or reporter clark running into pre-robin dick grayson).

future state (2021) batman: dark detective

i am not immune to dan mora’s bruce wayne, especially when he is skrunkly and beat up the whole time.

batman: urban legends (2021)

an anthology so you can kind of pick up/put down as you like! these are a good read if you don’t want to be tracking huge overarching plotlines for a bit. the first few issues have a great jason series too.

ongoing series aka my current pulls at the comic shop:

spirit world (2023)

this one is new and is SO fun and compelling; i love xanthe already, and the assorted cast (including constantine and cass!) and new side characters (bowen my beloved, i’d die for you if you weren’t already dead) are delightful. one of those comics where i’m genuinely interested in the plot too and not just reading for my favs. alyssa wong is doing some really cool things with this concept/cast and i hope they have a chance to do way more in this world.

batman/superman world’s finest (2022)

again, i am not immune to dan mora, or the delightful superbat of it all. (and robin!dick! i love him.) i also started reading waid’s teen titans spin-off that takes place in this same era and there are only a few issues out so far but i’m having a great time.

city boy (2023)

i am OBSESSED with this concept (sentient cities! sharp-edged/lonely character figuring out his connection to them!) and the writing is super fun so far. also the intro comic (free on kindle/elsewhere; also has a free spirit world issue) has a great nightwing run-in.

i’m also subscribed to nightwing, superboy: the man of tomorrow, action comics (anything with kon crumbs…), and dark knights of steel (listen…i am still holding out hope for more royal court spy!tim crumbs), and i don’t know much about shazam yet but i’m giving the new series a try too.

#hope there’s something here for your reading list! #asks #comics #batman #superman #spirit world #city boy

[shamelessexplosions]

What I've learnt about the Batfamily from Tumblr

I know nothing about Batman - I have never read a comic, I have never watched a Batman series or cartoon or movie with him in it (except from that one scene at the end of wonder woman). This is what I have learnt about the members of the Batfamily entirely from tumblr and other social media.

1. Bruce Wayne

Bruce Wayne is Batman, and his superpower is being richer than God.

He lives in a mansion in Gotham, which is basically a city entirely made up of psychos

He cannot stop adopting children

Like I'm pretty sure he sees a child on their own with a vaguely traumatic backstory and has to adopt them.

Probably carries adoption papers in his utility belt for that very purpose

I'm not entirely sure how many children he has but that's okay because I don't think he knows either.

When he's in the mask his voice is really deep and he keeps saying "I'm Batman"

When he's not he acts like a complete idiot but probably tips a waitress by paying for their collage tuition

His parents are dead and this is very important - in a world of orphans, he is THE orphan

2. Dick Grayson

Bruce Wayne's oldest adopted son

He was in the circus as an acrobat until his parents died in front of him

I think they were murdered

He was the original Robin

Then he got bored or something and moved to somewhere called bludhaven which honestly sounds Norwegian, and renamed himself Nightwing.

Has extreme big brother energy

3. Jason Todd

Robin #2 because apparently there's a second one

I think he met Bruce after stealing the tires off Batman's car (the batmobile?) and then hitting him with a tire iron which is such a power move, especially for some random kid

He died but it's ok because he fell in a pit and got better

He renamed himself red hood and became a mass murderer for a bit

I think it was just a phase?

He was trained in the way of murder by someone called Talia. He either slept with her or was adopted by her.

I hope it's the second one because I know Bruce slept with her

Likes guns

4. Tim Drake

I think he stalked batman until he found out he was Bruce Wayne

In other words this random kid did what no megalomaniac with a grudge against the furry that routinely beats them up could

But then I think he was Bruce's neighbour pre-adoption so maybe he just noticed batman flying out from under the mansion each night, which says something problematic about his secret identity

He became robin too like how many robins does one city need?

Jason refers to him as 'replacement' which seems cold given 1. He himself was a replacement and 2. tim got replaced as well

I think he's Red Robin now, so clearly not too interested in change.

5. Damien Wayne

Bruce's biological son with the aforementioned assassin/murder trainer Talia.

Was in something called the League of Assassins but left to find his father, which given the name is the League of Assassins sounds like a smart life choice

Talia may have sent Damien to Bruce so she didn't have to deal with a teenager, but it also sounds like he left after an argument with his grandfather and League head-honcho Ra's so not sure whats going on there

Also Robin but I think at this point someone is taking the piss - possibly Batman

Feral Child(tm)

Likes swords

6. Cassandra (Cassie/Cass) Cain?

Maybe her surname is cain? Or maybe it's not?

I'm really confused because I'm pretty sure there is both a Cass and a Cassie in the Child-soldier Justice League and I think one of them is a bat-family member and one of them has something to do with Wonder Woman and they may or may not be the same person

Was an assassin involved in the same organisation as Jason and Damien

Is this where Bruce Wayne is finding his kids?

Was a Robin too (yay for feminism, boo for originality? Get some other names for your feral murder children Bruce)

Now called Spoiler and likes purple

May have at one point been batgirl?

7. Duke ???

Honestly I have no idea, I've just seen his name a couple of times

He was probably Robin at some point - they all appear to have been Robin at some point

I think he likes the colour yellow

8. Stephanie Brown

Another person that I have only vaguely seen the name of

She might have dated one of the batkids, Tim maybe?

May or may not be a batkid herself

May be batgirl, or maybe that was Cassandra, or maybe both. There have been so many robins nothing would surprise me

9. Barbara (Babs) Gordon

Daughter of a police commissioner

hacker

Her father may or may not be aware of her extracurriculars, but Commissioner Gordon has a massive flashlight for summoning batman when he needs help with a case so I don't think he has any room to talk

Goes by Oracle

Not a proper batkid but I doubt that stops her being on the family Christmas card

May have at one point been a Batgirl?

But at this point I'm just guessing everyone was batgirl

Maybe Duke was batgirl!

May use a wheelchair but I'm not certain

10. Alfred Pennyworth

Indeterminate age, may be immortal

Bruce's bulter

Raised Bruce Wayne, but still calls him 'Master Bruce'

Also refers to the batkids as 'master xx'

May or may not be sarcasm

English, ex-army and all-round exceedingly polite badass

Correction, he's English, I can say with confidence it is sarcasm

That is all the people I can think of, sorry if I missed anyone

#batman #batfam #batfamily #i know nothing #maybe this amuses someone #sorry if I got anything wrong #bruce wayne #dc robin #robin #dcu #dc universe #dc comics #red robin #red hood #jason todd #dick grayson #damien wayne #alfred pennyworth #stephanie brown #cassandra cain #barbara gordon #text post

[starrycomics]

Reading Batman #138 has just confirmed for me that one of the main themes of Zdarksy's run is the line Bruce's loved ones (particularly the Robins) walk between Family and Soldier, and his struggle to separate the two

It's shown pretty plainly from Zdarksy's first Batman comic where Tim gets shot in the throat. In the heat of the moment, Bruce cradles Tim in his arms and calls him 'son', prioritising Tim's safety over evacuating civilians

But then in the car a couple of pages later, you get these amazingly horrific panels showing Bruce de-costuming Jason and Tim's bodies, referring to them as 'soldiers’

At this point I read his soldier description as almost sarcastically bitter - he clearly hates that ‘the mission' drives him to treat his sons like impersonal soldiers, but he does it anyway

And this is something Tim completely goes along with - Bruce doesn't even visit him in hospital, but he's back out soon after with a bandage still on his neck. When he's back in the field he has an argument with Batman that with hindsight feels like an obvious set up for Gotham War

Bruce questions Tim's judgement and berates him for something he did in the field, while Tim says that Batman can't control him

Bruce is, at this point in the story, pre-Zur, and obviously doing this from a place of concern for his son rather than as something more coldly militaristic, but it's still the same type of justification Zur will later use during his fight with the rest of the Bats

Batman #138 is when this turns on his head, when he becomes more drill sergeant than concerned father, where having a son in place of a soldier is a hindrance rather than a gift

And that’s the whole point of Gotham War - a lot of people have been bogged down debating the logic of Selina’s plan, when it was really no more than a MacGuffin to put the Bats’ fault lines on show and illustrate the strain of being a father to your soldiers

And if you’re viewing this with a completely cold, mission-first mentality, then Bruce-as-Zur is kind of right - he’s allowing the rest of the Bats, his soldiers, to essentially mutiny against him because he’s tied to them by his love. Obviously that’s a good thing, he absolutely should care about his children like that, but it objectively makes him weaker

Tying back to Tim getting shot - the most fatherly thing to do in that situation would be to damn their identities, prioritise Tim��s well-being and take him straight into hospital without wasting time with his uniform. That would ruin him as Batman, but it’s still something he considers out of love for his son. Throughout his run and especially in Gotham War, Zdarsky is putting that love to the test and exploring what’s more important to Bruce, justice or family

I could say a lot more about Bruce’s role as a parent (personally, while I do think he can be fatherly, there is something inherently unethical about sending your children to war - him and Batwoman’s dad have a lot in common in that regard imo)

Mostly I just love the fact that Zdarksy’s exploring the complex dynamics between Bruce and his Robins, and I can’t wait to see where he takes it

#Batman #Gotham war #Bruce Wayne #Tim drake #Robin #red Robin #chip zdarsky #look at me writing a PEEL essay about a Batman comic #this is my at my strongest and most unhinged #already formulating my ‘Batman may be a good man but that doesn’t make him a good parent’ essay #while he is responsible for those children he is not responsible with them #but that’s a story for another day

[lygma-nygma]

Knowing the original reason(s) that Dick became Nightwing and then reading comics like Nightwing: Year One is just so annoying. Like what is the deal with more modern rewrites making everything surrounding Dick and Bruce super edgy and angsty when the original version of the story was perfectly fine?? It’s like DC Comics is on a mission to assassinate both of their characters to make Dick into a ‘sad boy’, it’s infuriating.

Original Pre-Crisis Nightwing Lore: Yeah I'm just kind of getting too old to be Robin. Like it or not Robin is forever and always going to be known as Batman's sidekick and I just don't feel like that fits me anymore. I'm the leader of the Teen Titans and I spend most of my time doing that and solo missions now anyway. I think I'm going to drop the mantle, take a step back, and find a new identity. Original Post-Crisis Nightwing Lore: I got shot and fell off a building during a mission and almost died right in front of Bruce. It shook him up and made him super afraid of me dying so he told me he wasn't going to run with a Robin anymore because he didn't want my death to be his fault. I was annoyed about him treating me like a kid and that he was throwing all the years we worked together away over one incident but he said it wasn't like that, he just hoped I was old enough to understand where he was coming from. I told him that there was no way I wasn't going to continue being a hero and he fully supported me saying that he would always be there to help if I needed it. I was still hurt by it all, especially when Jason showed up, but ultimately I came to understand why it happened and got over it. Edgy Retcon Nightwing Lore: I went out of my way to SAVE him and then I got PUNISHED because I didn't do it right and wasn't prioritizing Gotham enough despite my THIRTEEN THOUSAND JOBS but I'm not surprised because he's always been unreasonable and HATES ME so now I'm not Robin anymore because Batman is an awful person and emotionally abuses me. And just to be clear it's not like Dick and Bruce didn't fight before the retcon, frequently being at each other's throats is literally a core aspect of their relationship, but I'm just so tired of them retconning every interaction they have into some overdramatic spat. Way to completely strip Dick of all his agency as a character and turn Bruce into an empty cardboard cut out of himself. Hope the angst points are worth it.

EDIT: I also want to add that fights between Bruce and Dick used to have a lot more nuance than they do now. The B&D fights used to be caused by a breakdown in communication on BOTH sides, not just Bruce's. The 'Jason becoming Robin' fight comes to mind. In Batman #416 neither Dick's complaints nor Bruce's excuses made complete sense but that was the point. Bruce should have been better at reaching out but Dick was also expecting Bruce to be a mind reader and know how he was feeling without telling him. Dick left home without saying goodbye well Bruce was on a mission, Bruce assumed that meant Dick didn't want to see him and so avoided reaching out leading to the two of them not talking for a long time. Dick accepts that Bruce doesn't want him as Robin anymore in stride (he even smiles and shit about it) so Bruce doesn't realize that losing Robin actually hurt him, ex. It's that kind of fighting, the "I want to slam both your heads together" fighting, that I miss so much.

#dick grayson #bruce wayne #batman #nightwing #just me complaining about things again #I blame frank miller for this #Frank miller and Tom king when I GET YOU #For those of you wondering the comics referenced here are #The New Teen Titans (39) #Batman (408) #Nightwing (101) #I can't put number signs in the tags so those are all issue numbers lol

[zahri-melitor]

What was the purpose of the New 52? Was it really a failure?

There’s a loaded essay topic!

The purpose of the New 52, to my best understanding, was stated to be the opportunity to tell stories that were less weighed down with continuity and allow a clear starting point for new fans to hop on board and start reading comics.

Basically, COIE and Post-Crisis is a successful version of what they wanted! COIE did in fact reset the universe and make a nice clear boundary for fans, and while if you dig in, particularly to 1980s comics, it wasn’t always as clean or tidy as people think of it being, and it created some weird discontinuities requiring additional retcons (Donna’s everything being the most famous, particularly to tumblr), it created a 25 year long largely coherent story where characters grew and changed over about 5 in-universe years of narrative.

Let’s look at Wally, because he’s emblematic of it. Wally in 1986 was a young adult who just lost his father figure, was expected to step up and take on a role he had never expected to need to take, especially that young, and was a kid from a fairly conservative background who had never examined his views.

Wally by 2011 was a fully grown adult who had a wife, kids, extended family, a career, was fully respected in his role as the Flash, and had found his views becoming significantly more progressive over time as he was exposed to more of the world.

This is fantastic long form story telling. The problem is to tell long range generational storytelling is that you have to be willing to allow those legacies to occur and the character focus to shift. And that makes fans of older characters, particularly the ones giving up their legacies, mad and long for their faves to be back in their prime.

Enter the New 52.

New 52 was an attempt to cut this Gordian knot. If they created a new timeline where superheroes only had 5 years of history, then that meant that the classic Silver Age headline characters couldn’t be ‘too old’ to still be realistically running around doing what they do. They had to be in their late 20s-early 30s! Young! Hot! Spritely! Relatable to a new generation!

While some of these characters did have 70+ years of history, the thing is that nearly 50 years of it (1938-1986) had already been compressed and glossed down to basics. Nobody can actually tell you what happened the year Dick Grayson was 14 years old. You can build one from old storylines if you wanted to have it! But it's not as easy as pointing to a run of comics and saying "during this Dick was 14".

This left two significant problems in tension with each other:

The intention to make Bruce, Clark, Hal, Barry, Ollie, Arthur, Diana etc about 30ish years old and the key adult members of the DCU to revolve stories around.

Everyone from the Titans on down therefore had to get significantly younger to fit into a 5 year history, but a lot of these characters ALSO had active fans and writers wanted to use them.

And then, on top of that? Because the intention for resetting to a new universe was to remove the burden of backstory from storytelling, the editors and various offices...never sat down and worked out together what the new history contained.

This led to the wild situation where The Flash, for instance, was reset to a pre-1986 state where there wasn't even a KID FLASH, and basically every member of the Garrick-Allen-West-Chambers-Mercury Flash Family not named Barry Allen or Iris West had ceased to exist (and uh, given it's the Flashes, only ONE character with each of those names existed). While over in Batman, the writers tried to hang onto everything and they cut ten years out of the timeline mostly from discarding Dick's history, so that Bruce had 4 Robins in 5 years.

This obviously created a lot of the issues. Because there was no structure as to what was in or out in the new universe, writers just...did whatever. And contradicted each other. And when they realised the contradictions, tried to write retcons to excuse it. (Was Tim Drake Robin or not? Depends on which writer you ask!)

Was it successful?

In the short term, in terms of sales? Yes, absolutely. DC managed to get a bunch of new readers in, as was the financial intention. It also did allow for a shift in focus on some characters: it's where basically all of Damian Wayne's stories that people like as stories (and not as concepts) exists; it's where Jason Todd's modern characterisation as an antihero and dynamic with the other Bats was established; it brought back a bunch of older properties that hadn't been seriously used in years back into the spotlight; due to the fixation on having 52 titles running at all times it gave a lot of characters opportunities to headline titles that hadn't got that in a long while, and the opportunity to try out different styles of storytelling; it provided the opportunity for modern rewrites of origins for some characters that needed some retcons applied - Morrison's Superman is well regarded and both Aquaman and Green Arrow's origin rewrites for instance put things together more coherently and discarded some outdated elements. Blue Beetle's rework of Jaime's history to keep the main elements but excise the fact it was so reliant on Infinite Crisis was actually better considered than people give it credit for.

The bigger issue was the lack of planning meant that the timeline became a burden on the whole initiative, particularly given how many fans were asking for the return of beloved characters and dynamics that had been wiped away or rendered unrecognisable in the reset. On top of that, there was the conception that they could just abandon the whole timeline again at the end of 5 years and start over, so large radical changes were fine and wouldn't have ongoing effects.

Also, the initial boost of sales from being able to announce brand new titles, like every time an #1 is announced, trickled away. Yes, it was the entry point for a generation of new fans. But also it wasn't any more turnover in terms of new fans than in any other period, on the long term view. There were still more people who were comics fans of DC who were long term fans than there were new fans, buying comics 2-3 years in, and those are the sort of fans who DO want the continuity back. They've got decades of favourite stories that they were told no longer mattered, and they wanted them to matter. And they lost a whole chunk of fans who reacted to New 52 like it was a contact poison and...stopped buying DC comics.

And so, like a pyramid scheme or a shell game or a company expanding too fast, it started to fold in like a pack of cards. DC found itself frantically relaunching more and more titles in 2014 and 2015 as they tried to regain the new feeling momentum of 2011. Their timelines needed people who cared deeply about the characters to go over things and reinterpret them to make things flow, and most of the people interested in doing that were trying to reinstate pre-Flashpoint continuity elements.

And that's why eventually, in 2016, we got Rebirth.

I don't think it was an outright failure. There are salvageable elements. But I think the damage it did to the company reputation and to their ability to exploit what makes cape comics distinct and unique as a storytelling form far outweighed the benefits gained.

And the recovery process from trying to turn the situation around has been long, drawn out, and is still ongoing for some characters.

[damianbugs]

What you mean by" willis todds love for jason is the reason bruce failed him" ?

Sorry ive seen your post and I agree with everything but this just kinda suprise me, not hating, just curiuos

HELLO! so this is a take that is based on pre-new 52 todds, before they were simplified to the one dimensional (and classist) personalities they're known for now. neither of them were shown to be abusive or willfully negligent, but rather found themselves in bad situations out of their control and died, leaving jason to fend for himself.

in the most simplest way what i mean is willis todds self sacrificing actions of turning to crime in order to provide for jason and catherine is the key defining part of jasons life and why he views bruce's love for him as 'not enough'.

(of course, the actual proof of this is like. one single panel and its not even said by jason. however i think it is something that can be found in jasons character through other, less obvious situations.)

in jasons initial (public) return to gotham and that long and convoluted plan to mess around with batman psychology to get the two of them and the joker in the same place, it all seems like a well planned out revenge story until the final conversation:

Batman: Under the Red Hood

it always stood out to me, not just because of how absolutely heart wrenching the entire moment is (definitely read utrh if you haven't, at least once), but because it really gives you an insight into what love and loving someone means to jason.

to him it's an all encompassing responsibility. this idea that love is something that you need to be able to prove by the quantitive value of what you'll sacrifice for it. in this case, jason is saying i love you" in the way he truly believes gets across how much he means it; i would kill the person who hurt you.

whenever i read this part of utrh, another situation immediately pops into my mind. and that's when jason found out two-face had killed willis todd.

Batman #411

upon finding out two-face had killed willis, jason goes on a brief grief filled rampage, swearing he'll kill him for what he did. it's important to note that up until now, jason had assumed willis was still in prison, only to find out he was actually murdered.

again, it's this idea that love is the extremes you'll go to for family. jason was well aware of willis' less than legal means to make money, and even bruce makes a mention of it in.

Batman: A death in the family

i imagine, like a lot of what fuels jason to fight crime now, guilt is a major deciding factor in a lot of his choices. it's this guilt that he feels upon hearing about willis' death that makes him take it out on two-face. it's even guilt that plays a huge factor even in new 52 stories (such as Cheer).

so when he returns to gotham, or even before that, just hearing about what bruce had done following his death (locking the joker up instead of killing him, taking in tim as his robin) were, to him, clear evidence that he did not love jason in any way that mattered. that bruce did not love jason as much as jason loved him.

because loving him means giving up your morals. loving him means sacrificing your health and your time and your safety.

but bruce didn't do any of that in a way jason could see.

i imagine to someone like jason, who lost every parental figure in some capacity, whether it be to illness or crime or something else entirely, the evident disregard for him was as painful as any rejection could have been.

a lot of how jason feels and acts can be seen in much more interesting ways if we all look at him for he is; an unreliable narrator. he is missing huge chunks of story, especially when it comes to bruce, and has no choice but to act irrationally on the little truth he does know.

of course we the readers, and some other characters, know just how hard jasons death was for bruce. how destructively he mourned for his son.

but again, the surface level proof of it is not enough for jason, who's entire life has been love through sacrifice. but now, it's a sacrifice bruce can not ever give him.

Batman: Under the Red Hood

#<- he who is not normal about pre new 52 willis todd #its the first time im getting this thought written out properly so i hope it makes sense #jason is just such an emotionally complicated character #but he was also a child #which is the one thing everyone seems to forget #bruce wayne #jason todd #willis todd #dc meta #character study #saki anons

[mysterycitrus]

i know you've been talking about jason lately so i'll ask about smth different... robin jason (sorry)

idk idk lately i've been wanting to take a peek at his robin comics for the sake of writing fic (ofc...) but i'd like to hear what u think before that, a summary of sorts if u may (i also wanna contrast what u say with what i get out of it so yeah)

i feel like his robin days are so muddled by his identity as red hood later on, and even before that it was his death. u had people constantly blaming jason for dying in text (or else they'd have to admit bruce can make mistakes and everyone in dc is allergic to doing that) and painting him like someone reckless and violent (classist editorial u need to DIE), and then people in fanon painting him like a sweet fella who would do nothing wrong and as well as being bruce's Only Actual Son etc etc for the sake of making the situation around him all the more sadder (yeah yeah pathetic meow meow we've all seen it)

and i'm just curious bc i rlly wonder what the actual comics say about him, most likely something in the middle of this? exams are killing me but my god i'll come back to life after im done just to read jason robin's days... have a good day !!!

the difficulty with reading about jason as robin is that there are three primary periods that all differ fairly dramatically from each other — pre-crisis jason todd is a strawberry blond acrobat who’s almost adopted by dick grayson before becoming robin; post-crisis jason todd is a kid from crime alley who steals the wheels off the batmobile before becoming robin; and post-crisis, post-utrh jason todd is a very angry, very violent kid who becomes a cautionary tale after he gets himself killed (something he is often blamed for).

we can walk the line here. pre-crisis jason isn’t particularly relevant because so much of robin!jason’s stories depend on his reinvention after the reboot. all the crucial factors leading up to death in the family — growing up in the alley, both his mothers, his relationship with the robin mantle, his developing relationship with dick grayson, his slow schism from bruce, his relative isolation from other superheroes — are all crucial to who he is, especially after his death.

fanon about jason is annoying because there are valid criticisms that can be made about how he’s written with regressive, classist stereotypes, but as always it pivots way too far in one direction. jason wasn’t the “happy” or “angry” robin in the same way that dick wasn’t the happy or angry robin — they’re both characters that possess more than a single emotion. it’s true that jason was later written to be more explicitly violent (to contrast him with dick) but also like… they’re both pretty similar characters that differ in interesting ways. dick created robin to be a symbol of hope and joy. jason carried that on when he took up the mantle. they can both be angry at stuff without the world falling apart. it’s not that serious.

the dialogue about dick being a child soldier but jason being the true son makes me want to tear my hair out. jason became robin because bruce missed dick and was afraid of being alone. they’re both his gd kids. acting as though bruce wayne doesn’t love dick grayson so much that extra-dimensional beings can clock it is so fucking stupid. it once again ties into fanon’s obsession with each character only getting to be “one” thing. tim is smart, which means he’s the smartest. jason said robin made him magic, which means he’s happy all the time. dick chased after zucco in a grief spiral, which means he’s the violently angry one, with no other character traits. dick can’t have been nice to jason because he’s nice to tim, etc. seems a little silly, no?

i think i’ve only read jason’s brief run as robin once, though ive gone through a death in the family + a lonely place of dying a bunch of times, so ig my advice for reading him is to keep in mind the context in which he was created. dc comics was reeling from losing dick grayson as robin, and were really throwing anything at the wall to get something to stick. many, many negative tropes are baked into his introduction, and thanks to writers like jeph loeb and scott lobdell they have compounded over time. jason’s updated backstory is, with actual critical intent by the writer, a really good examination of how poverty and class will affect how someone views the world. his death was not his fault — and removing sheila haywood from that warehouse purposely makes his story less tragic. he was a good kid! and he was angry for a good reason. if jason had lived, i believe he would’ve carried on the robin tradition and left bruce behind once their differences became insurmountable.

#jason as robin: baby. jason as red hood: really really annoying #jason todd #red hood #batman #bruce wayne #dc comics #the ask and the answer

[geekishfangirl]

Seen so many Peter Parker in Gotham fics, and while I love them, I would love to see a Batfam in Marvel fics. Especially with the Richard Grayson is Richard Parker idea!

I like to imagine they somehow end up in Peter’s New York (idk how, haven’t thought about it that much) and in their attempts to find a way back to their home universe end up catching the attention of either SHIELD, the Avengers, or just Tony. They are confronted by whoever catches them and, maybe under duress or the idea that they don’t have the resources to get home alone, explain their situation. It all leads to them staying with Tony while they’re there and it all comes to a head when they meet Peter. Because that looks just like Dick! They start trying to spend more time with him to figure out if it’s just a crazy coincidence or not, and eventually realize this is the alternate universe version of Dick’s son!

I love this idea because it makes me wonder about so many things and I feel like it has a lot of possibilities. Like, the batfam is extremely cagey about who they trust, why and how do they end up telling the truth about what happened to them? If we’re talking the MCU (I honestly just like to pick things I like from each universe and make my own but whatever works lmao) Do they end up meeting the Avenger’s pre-Civil War or after? And if after, what would their thoughts on the Accords be?

How would they react to Peter’s story? He barely remembers his father, if he does at all. How would Dick react to the idea of his son growing up without him? To never meeting Bruce and his siblings (if they even exist in Peter’s world) and instead getting adopted by another family? There was never any Robin or Nightwing. He is DEAD in this universe and is watching his adult or near adult orphaned son look to a billionaire superhero as his father figure, just like he had! it would be interesting to highlight both the similarities and differences in the relationship of Tony and Peter to that of Dick and Bruce.

How would they react to Spider-Man and the snap?!

I need someone to write this honestly, there’s so much potential here, I can feel it in my bones.

#ao3 #archive of our own #fanfic #fanfiction #ao3 fanfic #peter parker #spiderman #spider man #peter parker in gotham #dick grayson #richard grayson #richard parker #dcu #dc comics #batman #tony stark #iron man #batfamily #batfam #nightwing #mcu x dc #Richard Grayson is Richard Parker #batfam in the mcu #avengers #the avengers #crossover #crossover fanfiction #please someone do it in desperate

[brucewaynehater101]

Inspired by "Jason adopts Tim" fics on AO3, prompts by puppetmaster13u & others on here and that one AO3 fic where because Bruce told Jason pre-death he can take whatever is his and Robin is his it's fair game to nab Tim and the AO3 News Article fic where Red Hood decides the best revenge is tricking the world into thinking he's the Third Robin's dad, some of your posts—

—and my love for inhuman folks

Jason resurrects and he isn't human anymore. Dealer's pick on what he is precisely but he has become much more wary of just how fragile the lives of humans are

How fragile his own life may still be

+ he's got trauma piled on top of his fresh instincts and confusion on what happened after his death

Thus when carving his place as Red Hood, he is more vigilant in making Crime Alley a place where people don't just survive, but live and maybe even thrive.

Putting down threats like predators for good in death. But doing so too much will get Batman breathing down his neck

So he takes some inspiration from Batman after his death and before Tim to inflict some fates worse than death, and rubs it in the Bat's face whenever they face of against each other. "It's not killing B"

He tries—and due to trauma—fails to bring himself to kill Joker. Which crushes him with every crime the Joker (that he in a fucked up sense allowed) commits onwards

Onto the next best thing, acquiring wealth and asking for public donations all over Gotham to build up a sufficient bounty on Joker's head to draw in the most competent killers of them all

Whoever can kill and bring the Joker's remains as evidence gets the money, and the bounty price builds up over time

He'll even add more to the bounty time to time

Jason overworks himself on his Crime Alley to the point his own men compare him to a more benevolent Batman, one who doesn't need an emotional support child

"Could you elaborate on that? I had to spend time out of Gotham for a time and don't know what happened during that span of time"

Batman gave Robin to another

But he didn't revoke Jason's ownership, did he?

Humans are oh so fragile

He knows from experience

In classic not-human logic, that makes the new Baby Bird his now, no? Especially with Batman so incompetent as to depend on him

Titans Tower is not found with Tim bloody and broken

Titans Tower is found without Timothy Drake, and countless leads implicating several yet all seemingly frame job dead-ends

Penguins and Red Hood and Luthor. Joker and Two-Face and beyond

Red Hood is found in a meeting room by his men with a Third Robin—the Robin the city owes guilt and more to—in the Crimelords arms

"B always said that I could take what's mine whenever I want, and he never said it never extended to his . . . My kid. He's mine now . . . "

Words spreads in Gotham City. It spreads indeed

It's fitting, it's fitting. Inheritor of another's name, this Robin, this Red Hood is

Joker Junior and every other tragedy only solidifies Jason's resolve to keep and care for the kid

It's funny. Jason has barely felt human since he woke up from death, since he started overworking himself for his people

Now, with a baby brother in his life? With somebody to care for under his roof? Those domestic times he swore were killed alongside the Second Robin?

This is bliss

Jason feels a weight off his chest when his Merry Men sends a message that the Joker is dead, and the bounty has been sent to the killer

When Jason discovers the Fourth Robin, too dead and revived? when he finds her alive at all? Girl is getting snatched and doted on, especially if he finds her after she's had her baby

And I wouldn't be surprised if he tracked down her kid so she could have raise her baby herself and provided all the resources and support nessecery for it

[Daughter and grandchild acquired!]

When Damian comes and the Robin mantle is passed down onto him— yoinked by Jason again!

Damian is fuming because he wasn't told that this was part of being Robin!

=======

"If you're right that Batman is trapped in the timestream, that everyone is wrong about him being dead, before presenting this to the Justice League I think this should be a family discussion.

"Because I know otherwise I'd do everything in my power to let him die for real. Ensure nobody is the wiser that Bat could've been saved.

"And at least one of the Bats will disagree with me. And this is a scenario where everybody needs to have their input accounted for."

Oooh! All of this is fantastic, but I especially love the end.

The end combines a healthier approach to the BruceQuest with a trope I love: leaving Bruce in the timestream because fuck that guy. Regardless of what they decide, I'm glad Jason at least indicated it was an option.

I wonder where Dick and Cass are in all of this. I'm also curious about how Jason would react to the We Are Robins movement. Does he adopt every Robin or just those acknowledged by Batman?

#dc comics #dc universe #thank you for the ask!!!! #jason todd #dc au