#at least its not sylkie | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

percheduphere · 4 months

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honestly I'm more at a loss when people say sylki is canon. I am...very confused by what people mean by that. they were never anything romantic together? I honestly feel like I've missed a whole season of the show when that gets said. that's not from a shipping standpoint; that's from nothing happening that'd make them "canon"

like, to ship sylki is still to ship something that isn't and didn't become "canon". it's still wanting something that didn't happen between them

like, even if sylvie was an intended "love interest" (was she? even? on the basis of her being a woman that loki connects with?), I don't call that alone a romantic relationship between them being "canon". Like, if elizabeth bennet and mr darcy never became anything, they're not "canon". that's just something that could have been but wasn't.

they were never actually anything?

LET'S TALK ABOUT "CANON" & BISEXUAL REPRESENTATION, THE SERIES' MIDPOINT & THE THEME OF BETRAYAL, AND THE SUBJECTIVITY OF ROMANCE

I've been sitting on this inbox comment/ask for a long time because I wanted to make sure I respond in a way that feels productive, kind, and doesn't step on other fans' joy. Having said that, as a Lokius shipper, I think it's really important for Lokius shippers and Sylki shippers to unite on at least one subject and that's positive bisexual representation. This isn't meant to be a harsh reply--I understand what the anon is saying from their point of view--but I also want to delineate between canon and personal interpretation/taste.

I also want to note that it's unfair to disavow Mobius and Sylvie's impact on Loki, Loki's impact on each of them as a result of his individual relationships with them, and thus the impact Mobius and Sylvie have on one another separate from Loki. Doing so really halves the overall richness of the story, and taking this into account is why my metas are so annoyingly long. This one, in particular, is a mess but hopefully I've managed to wrangle it into some kind of coherence that addresses the anon ask that is respectful to Sylki. Fear not, Lokius shippers, I discuss Lokius in this post, too. But first, let's talk about canon and bisexual representation ...

CANON AND BISEXUAL REPRESENTATION

Canon is often defined as: 1.) what is actually written in text (as opposed to subtext), AND 2.) what the creator(s) verbally confirm.

I've said before and I'll keep repeating: the most important aspect of art is art's relationship with the reader/viewer. Individual interpretation is what escalates a medium to a deeply personal and, at times, spiritual level. Art is supposed to make us think and feel. We're supposed to interact with it and do with it what we will. This is particularly important when we consider that much of consumable art is hampered by the demands of capitalism. Fan-interpretation democratizes what people without power want to see and hear, whereas canon (especially mass media canon) often self-censures to sell to the widest audience.

From the creators' standpoint, Sylvie has always been intended to be Loki's romantic interest, and Loki was always intended to have romantic feelings for her. This is what the creators tell us. Whether or not one likes Sylvie and Loki together is subjective.

As for the text, the plot between Loki and Sylvie has the markers of a romance, albeit one that doesn't come into full fruition. By full fruition, I mean a happy ending with each character affirming one's love for the other and committing to being together. Now, a relationship doesn't have to be successful or reciprocal to be considered romantic. Heck, it can be absolutely toxic and still be romantic. Whether or not the plot is convincing in its execution of romance, however, is also subjective.

What romance requires is: 1.) at least one of the characters desiring the other, and 2.) at least one of the characters willing to sacrifice for the other. Sacrifices don't have to be big, either. They can be small and cumulative.

Canonically, Loki fulfills both of these romantic requirements for Sylvie. (More on Sylvie below).

Subtextually (that is, not canon as defined above), Loki and Mobius fulfill both of these requirements for one another.

I'm gonna soap box for the next two paragraphs, so you can skip over this if that's not your jam. Both romances, canonical and subtextual, can exist concurrently without erasing the existence of the other. Even if Loki and Mobius had miraculously become canon in S2 (it's Disney, this never would have happened but let's explore the hypothetical), that doesn't erase Loki's former romance with Sylvie in S1. To erase that history is bisexual erasure, which isn't okay. Likewise, quashing the importance of queer subtext in order to "kill the other ship" isn't okay either, as it reinforces optical heteronormative romance in mass media and is also a form of bisexual erasure.

What's more important than either ship "winning" is the positive portrayal of a bisexual character. This means a character who demonstrates genuine love and devotion to people of more than one gender. If we accept the canon AND the subtext (we don't have to like it; Sylki's not my cup of tea personally, but I accept it as real), Loki fulfills positive bisexual representation, however restrained that representation may be. The social goal is to get to the point where a media juggernaut like Disney allows its franchise characters to experience relationships with more than one gender canonically and positively. We're not there yet and I'll probably be dead before Disney ever gets there, but Loki can be seen as a historical stepping stone distinct from Aziraphale and Crowley (Good Omens) and Steve Bonnet and Edward Teach (Our Flag Means Death).

(NOTE: Polyamory is a whole separate subject matter, which I'm won't get into here.)

ON SYLVIE

There's fan dispute over Sylvie's interest in Loki. I've previously written meta on Sylvie's sexuality and how she responds to Loki's romantic advances here. In S1, while she starts off frustrated, I think Sylvie slowly develops interest and was cautiously hopeful that she and Loki could figure out their futures together. Loki has been consistent about wanting to be with Sylvie and supporting her up until the necessary plot conflict of the series midpoint (S1E6; the S1 finale). This midpoint is the root cause for why Loki and Sylvie's relationship becomes strained. Again, this doesn't mean that the romance never existed--the plotpoints are there--but it does mean Loki's character development got in the way.

So let's talk about the series' midpoint and the interplay of Mobius, Loki, and Sylvie's mutual impact. The three are so deeply entangled that it's worth untangling their cause and effect on one another.

THE SERIES' MIDPOINT & THE THEME OF BETRAYAL

I keep stressing in my other metas that the series' midpoint (S1E6) is the most critical. Structurally, midpoints are where the story turns. Midpoints occur on multiple scales: at the episode level (typically in acts 3 or 5, depending on how the screenwriter divides their screenplay), at the season level, and at the series level. Midpoints are what provide the overall narrative and character arcs with movement.

As a whole, there are 3 key midpoints in the entire series:

1.) S1E2/E3 - When Loki betrays Mobius for Sylvie (midpoint of S1)

2.) S1E6 - When Loki betrays Sylvie for the "bigger picture" (midpoint of the whole series)

3.) S2E3/E4 - When it's revealed HWR betrayed Renslayer; Victory Timely is brought into the mix, and Sylvie reluctantly joins the TVA (midpoint of S2)

There is another betrayal that runs near-concurrently with #2, which is Mobius's betrayal of Renslayer (it begins in S1E4 and continues into the S1 finale). Thematically, we can take Loki's betrayal of Sylvie and Mobius's betrayal of Renslayer as mirrors of one another because these are the only betrayals that are motivated by good rather than selfishness. The selfish betrayals of #1 and #3 bookend betrayal #2 to highlight the beginning Loki's readiness to become a hero in S1E6. Where S1 focuses on Loki exploring who he is, S2 focuses on the hero Loki will become. S1E6 therefore serves as Loki's turn, his launching point to get to where he lands in S2E6. The story is really well-structured!

The poetic irony is that Loki's S1E6 betrayal was not an act of villainy, but an act of character growth.

There is plot set-up for Loki's betrayal of Sylvie, and that set-up is 2-pronged: 1.) from Sylvie's end, her misinterpretation of Loki's intentions, and 2.) from Mobius's end, the provision of unconditional friendship. Building up to these prongs are S1E1 - S1E3, in which Loki's self-interest and impulsivity are emphasized. S1E4 pivots Loki from self-interest and impulsivity to consideration for others and caution. Sylvie did not bear witness to Loki and Mobius's interactions in S1E1-S1E2 and S1E4 in the time loop chamber. She has no context for why Loki would hesitate killing HWR. I'll discuss this more under "Prong 2".

PRONG 1: SYLVIE'S MISINTERPRETATION

In the scene below (S1E5), Sylvie makes an assumption about what Loki wants and Loki admits via subtext that ruling a timeline actually won't make him happy.

Sylvie smiles in response, implying she understands what Loki means, however Loki often speaks in double-meanings (he cannot be trusted) and Sylvie has doubts (she cannot trust). From Sylvie's point-of-view, Loki has discussed the desire to rule with her 3 times (writers' magic 3s again). Above is the third. The previous 2 are:

1.) In their first confrontation in S1E2, when Loki offers Sylvie the opportunity to be his lieutenant. (Can't find the gif of this. Grr ...)

2.) On Lamentis (S1E3) in the scene below:

By S1E6, Loki has no interest in rule.

He's honest when he says he's worried about the greater ramifications of killing HWR. Sylvie doesn't believe him. The question is how did Loki arrive at this point in his character arc? Why slow down now? Why worry about the consequences now?

The answer is in S1E4.

PRONG 2: MOBIUS'S UNCONDITIONAL FRIENDSHIP

It's established in S1E1 that Mobius knows Loki better than Loki knows himself and consequently better than Sylvie knows Loki. A lot of Mobius-haters despise Mobius's cold confrontational tactics but it is those same tactics that force Loki to self-reflect. And to be clear, Mobius uses cruelty in S1E1 because 2012 Loki would not believe in, let alone listen to, softness and compassion. Cruelty is a language 2012 Loki understands, therefore Mobius communicates with him on that level to get him to listen and start thinking about the answers to the hard questions.

Not exactly the gif I wanted, but close enough. In this scene, Mobius wonders why Loki, who "has so much range", wants a throne. He then asks Loki, what's next? The implication of these questions is that Mobius knows Loki will never be satisfied. He knows, deep down, a throne is a poor substitute for what Loki really wants: love, acceptance, and companionship.

Mobius's tone is mocking, his note that Loki has a wide range is complimentary, and the question is serious. Further, and this important, Mobius gives Loki respect in conjunction with his cruelty, his compliments, and his seriousness by acknowledging Loki's intelligence ("I am smart"; "I know") and his potential to be more than a villain ("That's not how I see it"). Understandably, this strange, dizzying mix of seemingly contradictory truths puts Loki off-balance.

Their tenuous allyship becomes a friendship in Mobius's eyes near the end of S1E2. Mobius is practically squeeing about Loki's multiple breakthroughs and how well they work together to Renslayer:

And Loki genuinely looks excited to help Mobius. Look at that fist-pump. Mobius doesn't see it, he's ahead of Loki, so his enthusiasm isn't an act. The seeds of mutual trust (rather than doubt) have been planted.

Unfortunately, Loki's poor impulse control and need to hedge his bets out of self-interest lead him to betraying Mobius. Both Sylvie and Mobius take Loki's betrayals poorly.

The key difference is that Mobius cannot resist the desire to trust Loki, to want to be his friend. This desire creates Mobius's doubt in Renslayer, which in turn leads to his betrayal of her.

Forgiveness isn't easy. It requires the ability to accept disagreements and another person's shortcomings. It requires good will, faith, and a willingness to move on. It requires compromise and, at times, letting go entirely.

Mobius torturing Loki with the Sif memory loop was awful. His personal hurt is directly tied to the below admission, which informs Loki what Mobius thought of their relationship:

And that revelation startles him. It forces him to evaluate his actions that led to Mobius saying such a thing (impulsivity; self-interest). Loki, who doesn't want to be alone, desires Mobius's friendship.

So when Mobius returns to Loki with an olive branch ...

Loki offers Mobius an olive branch of his own by affirming the friendship Mobius believed in but felt betrayed by.

Thus, Loki and Mobius accept each other's olive branches. They forgive each other and repair their relationship from there. This is critical thematically because Loki and Mobius each extend olive branches to Sylvie and Renslayer respectively, both of whom reject those olive branches more than once. Sylvie and Renslayer represent opposite ends of the chaos versus order ideology, for which neither is willing to compromise. Loki and Mobius also start out at opposite ends before meeting in the middle.

Sylvie unfortunately does not know anything about Loki's interactions with Mobius and how those interactions have impacted Loki's motivations. She doesn't know that Loki wants to "slow down and think about this" because the last time he acted on impulse, it turned out he almost threw Mobius's friendship out the window without realizing he had his friendship in the first place.

For her, the seeds of doubt have already been planted: Loki betrayed the TVA to pursue her, Loki expressed shock at Sylvie's desire to "walk away" rather than taking advantage of the "ultimate power vacuum" once the TVA is destroyed, he expresses the desire to rule 3 times. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for Sylvie to assume Loki would betray her for power even though she had hopes to the contrary. Romantic tragedy? Absolutely. Believable? Depends on who you ask and what your personal taste is.

There must be some kind of sentiment on Sylvie's part, however, because she chooses not to kill Loki. Instead, she kisses him goodbye and throws him through a time door.

Mobius's friendship is therefore the catalyst for everything that unravels between Loki and Sylvie in S1E6 (the series' midpoint). I think it's safe to interpret Sylvie's tearing into Mobius in S2E4 as not only due to being in the TVA and having all her traumas brought to the surface, but also due to experiencing jealousy. This level of anger matches Mobius's outrage about Sylvie in S1E4! Note, however, that this interpretation of Sylvie's interaction with Mobius is subtext. Subtext goes many ways!

THE SUBJECTIVITY OF ROMANCE

Are Loki and Sylvie a believable romance? It depends on your taste.

A fictional couple's overall successful reception by the audience (which is rarely if ever 100%) is contingent on a few things:

1.) Character development

2.) Story execution

3.) Chemistry between the actors

Reception and interpretation of the above are all subjective. In addition to these elements, another important factor is couple trope. Depending on your preference, some tropes might be nope while others are yum. You might even like most tropes but the actor chemistry, character development, and/or plot are just not doing it for you.

Loki and Mobius follow the tropes of:

Opposites attract/Complementary set

Sunshine and cynic

Enemies to allies to friends to lovers

Sherlock and Watson

Slow burn

Ride or Die

Loki and Sylvie, on the other hand, follow the tropes of:

Exceptionally similar but with key differences/Matching Set

BAMF duo

Enemies to allies to lovers

Bonnie and Clyde

Fast and passionate

Ride or Die

Loki and Sylvie's romantic dynamic may be compared to the following couples in other media:

Batman and Catwoman

Jack Sparrow and Angelica Teach

Benedict and Beatrice

If you notice, they all have very similar personality traits. They also fight and fight a LOT. It's part of their charm and can add to their chemistry.

Personally, I didn't feel any chemistry between Loki and Sylvie, I didn't feel like there was enough warmth between them, and I really wanted Loki to be loved by someone who makes an effort to understand him rather understanding his core traits off the bat by being the same entity. Loki and Mobius hit all the right story beats for me. Tom and Owen's chemistry as actors is remarkable. I'm also a sucker for ball of sunshine and cynic dynamics.

But that's just me. That doesn't mean I don't see what the creators tried to do with Loki and Sylvie in terms of plot, character development, and couple tropes. Some people felt chemistry between Tom and Sophia, others (like me) didn't. Whatever the case, the canon exists and the romantic tropes are there. I just feel the subtextual romance between Loki and Mobius is stronger and that, again, is my subjective judgment.

#loki #lokius #mobius #loki series #loki season 2 #loki meta #my meta #asks #sylvie #loki analysis #my analysis

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eexhausted · 7 months

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hi sorry im talking again

my mistake gang

BUT

even as somebody who genuinely doesn’t like the romance between thor and jane, at any point - it’s not that bad i just never liked their dynamic that much, more of a thorbruce person myself but i don’t see any issues necessarily with shipping it (?)

THE FACT THAT LOKIUS ARE CANONICALLY. TRULY REALLY IN FRONT OF MY EYES. BEING PARALLELED WITH THORJANE IS DRIGING ME CRAZY

loki did something silly, got punished and sent to an unfamiliar place where he met somebody mortal (or at least appearing so) and immediately fell in love with him , and then thought “oh shit im literally doing a thor rn”

like thor and jane are EXPLICITLY ROMANTIC until the off screen breakup in ragnarok and then again in tlat (even if i don’t like that movie all too much, it’s still just the truth.) not even really any slowburn, and even if i believe their relationship was symbolism anyway, ITS ROMANTIC. so….,,,

if they were reallyyyy trying to imply sylki canon they would’ve twisted it to be sylki - thorjane but it’s NOT like that at alllll.

#loki show #loki series #loki season 2 #lokius #loki #loki laufeyson #mobius #anti sylki

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kepkepkepkep · 6 months

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my theory of lokius vs sylki is it was mobius was far gone for loki (because he spent so much time studying him so naturally he would love him?) but loki is obsessed—not in love—with sylvie (because for the first time he fit somewhere and someone gets him, but he mistakes it for romance cause attachment issues) and sylvie doesn't love loki, not romantically at least (because he gets her too but you don't kiss someone and push them through a time door to fulfill your ultimate goal in life then ghost them if you're in love with them). Also marvel is infamous for being cowards so its unlikely lokius is endgame but I feel like sylki won't be endgame either I actually have no idea but its impossible to dispute mobius' love for loki, romantic or otherwise

#lokius #sylki #mobius is down horribly #hes real for that tbh #loki be obsessed with me next🤩🤩#lokius🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏#🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯#manifesting #mcu #loki #loki laufeyson #mobius m mobius #mobius #sylvie laufeydottir #sylvie #erm erm erm please make owen wilson kiss a man at least once

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thefaultinourforcebond · 7 months

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Idk its not just shipping goggles that are the problem to me. The end was cool and all but over and over again the show said loki didn't want to/deserve to be alone. So much was set up (including sylvie's backstory, which was never fully explored/explained) just for none of it to get properly developed, and now loki is alone forever :/

Sylkis backstory

The nexus event thing

Pie room (Why everyone ends up in there suddenly)

Whatever happened to Renslayer and Brad

The rule of two thing set up by HWR in season 1

The “Burden are both (loki & sylvie) to bear” adverts

Loki not wanting to be alone

All those build up and??? We’re left with all these plotholes and there wont be a season 3. I understand that there will be more after in coming shows or movies but the least you could do is finish up the other characters backstory/growth. Yeah, we’ll get more of them later but putting your main back in purgatory as the end does not. look good. at all. storytelling wise. Felt like ive been tricked to consume media only for it to disappoint me. It’s like an “Ahaha” moment. Very Disney.

05 & 06 felt like a sprint towards the end.

Also it makes me a little nauseous that they played the “grand” loki theme at the end like it’s something to be proud of. The reveal is cool — Really it was so cool! — but i cant help but feeling empty at the end there.

ANOTHER THING: get a woman in the writing room next time

#loki #sylki #loki series #loki season 2 #loki x sylvie #im still in the anger phase #still processing #loki spoilers #hey nonny nonny

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professional-termite · 7 months

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I kept wanting Mobius to watch his variant self find a partner that looks hella like Loki

Mobius when he grabbed Loki's lapels to just snog the hell out of Loki and Loki to absolutely kiss back just as much and they live happily ever after

i wanted that tooooo but nooooooo lokis gonna sit on a throne he never wanted. forever...my heart....my HEART........i know its good like selfless sacrifice and all that and character development and at least sylki isnt canon but like MY HEART.....ITS DEAD

#ask #asks #❓️#lokius #loki #loki season 2 #loki s2 #loki spoilers #loki s2 spoilers #mobius #mobius m mobius

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disaster-bay-leaf · 7 months

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late night thoughts about sylvie

- its even more clear this season that she is loki’s foil in every single possible way and its highlighted so many times

- i hate the idea of sylki selfcest as much as any other person, but you gotta admit that when disregarding all the outside-of-plot bullshit (disney being homophobic or just not caring about the characters) it is sort of an interesting dynamic (mostly during this season) because i think that trying to figure out how to act with a version of yourself, someone who you know to their core because you have the same one, someone you could have been but aren’t and desperately want to stop them from heading down a road you could have gone or have gone, is a sort of difficult experience

- so yeah ill be disappointed if sylki happens again because i think that it makes much more sense that they exist as the same person with the same thinking processes and mentalities but aimed at different goals - simpler put sort of the same plane but different direction, or same root different philosophy

- so i think its compelling and frustrating to have someone that you know has the potential of seeing your point of view perfectly and understanding you deeply but still taking the same base data (lets say) and interpreting them in a very different way

- i think the most clear example of that is the pie room conversation - they know perfectly well how and why the other is choosing the sides and interpretations and actions that they do, but in the end they reach vastly different conclusions

- and in that moment i think loki’s connection to sylvie is very clearly shown: not only he sees his past lost lonely self in her, he also understands her like he understands himself and wants to show her that his way might be better for them

- also of course in the “its time to write your own story” “i can rewrite the story” parallels

- and i think it would be fitting if both of their perspectives affected what will happen in the finale (although my own opinion is that loki is the one more in the right and given that he is the main character and had the greatest development he should have most of the impact on how the season is resolved)

- but i also think that ultimately the writers can take a different approach and make them unfoil lets say and find common ground which can of course unfortunately end with yet another moment of selfcest

- bonus thought is that the show has to somehow connect after this to the rest of the mcu so i dont think that any connection to sylvie will be very permanent i think shes going to be more like a stray cat that stumbles into the plot when it wants or is dragged in kicking and scratching when needed

but then again this is just a pile of semicoherent thoughts so take from that what you will

- bonus thought #2 once again when we disregard the outside of the plot, i think sylvie isnt meant to be exactly likeable (or at the very least, that isnt the purpose of the character) - she is meant to do precisely what she is doing, foiling loki (a character we obviously root for) and showing us his emotional and mental and philosophical insides through her reflection as well as being a sympathetic and understandable character because she shows us that alternative mindset that we might not necessarily agree with (or do agree with! it just gives us something to compare loki’s own decidions and perspectives to)

#it was very hard to focus that post only on sylvie and not mention mobius fjdjdjjdjd #loki tv #loki show #loki #sylvie #loki s2 spoilers #loki season 2 spoilers #loki spoilers #loki s2 #loki season 2 #mcu #marvel #bay rambles

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alwida10 · 5 months

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Let’s talk about Erik Martin’s approach to season 2 and why I think it was lacking.

Based on Martin’s likes on Twitter it seems he loves Sylvie, and I truly think he does. I still think he might be the reason for her getting pushed to the background and her lackluster arc in season 2.

Martin has been quite active on Twitter, and interacted often with fans, at the beginning even those who are critical. (Kudos to him for being unafraid of conflict without getting insulting, as taika did.)

And when you take a closer look at all the points criticized on Twitter (Loki being not the focus of the show, lack of magic, lack of new outfits, the romance being icky, etc..) it looks like Martin did something with every single one of those criticisms.

Just, not in a way that would make the show better. More in a way of “look, I fixed it. Are you happy now?” while being mostly focused on getting the work over with.

Hence, I think he’s a people pleaser (in contrast to someone who actually has a creative vision and deeper understanding of the main characters).

Yeah. Also, all the fixes are just like painting over a really ugly piece of furniture. Sure, it might be slightly less offensive, but that doesn’t make it beautiful or meaningful. It’s just enough to make it possible to counter all major criticisms with “but they changed that!!” But in the end the initial basis for the problem is still there. Just … less visible.

Loki got a new outfit, but a) it’s ugly as fuck, and b) it lacks meaning.

Loki is now the center of the show and a driving force but he’s still out of character, since they didn’t address the delusion he ever wanted to rule or willingly helped Thanos.

Loki is using his magic more, but what he can and can’t do still changes from scene to scene and his magic use stays quite pointless for the overall development. Captain America could have found the same solution for the problem, meaning it’s not a story tailored for Loki.

Yeah, they didn’t non-con strip Loki for lulz a second time, but the “he’s Loki, so he’ll fuck up sooner or later” mindset is still there beneath the paint of new outfits and new magic.

And yeah, last but not least - Martin got rid of the romance, assassinating the obviously planned arc for the series that would have Loki accept his own “shortcomings” (which were based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the character, but -alas- the basis for the planned arc of the series) by guiding and helping Sylvie to overcome her version of the same shortcomings. I guess they wanted to parallel her conviction that she knew better in the S1 finale with his conviction to rule, and let both of them learn that being wrong is ok, and friendship/love is more important. So, by cutting her short in s2, they had to find a new end to Loki’s arc in s1, and we all saw how that turned out.

Imo, Martin still doesn’t understand Loki, and what makes him compelling as a character. In the end, the part of Loki’s character that most fans I interacted with love is the same in the OG and the Sylki-fandom. The difference is that for the OG fandom Loki was characterized like that before the show, already. And for the Sylki-fandom he was characterized like that AFTER the series. As if the show had just done a more widely accepted repetition of Loki’s former arc.

Now the og Loki fans are still pissed (but probably will never engage with the mcu again anyhow) AND the TVA Loki fans are now pissed too because this shiny new character (which was mainly defined by the romance) was now put through the meat grinder, too.

Sometimes *really bad* stuff is still better than mediocre stuff. At least it’s SO bad that it gets its own dimension by its badness. But this mediocre stuff is neither real nor fake. Just… lukewarm.

#loki series critical #loki series negativity #loki series criticism #anti Loki series

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the-eternal-maiden616 · 7 months

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Okay guys and girls and non binary and genderfluid people today is the day the Loki finale is only a few hours away and we will found out not only what happens to our dear boy we have adore for over 12 years now, but also if we will get either Lokius, Sylki or neither and he will just have gained new friends in this show.

I seriously want to hold back on watching it due to the stress of watching another queer character being queerbaited because of Disney and forced into another heterosexual relationship that doesn't make sense,is gross and wasn't developed properly and shouldn't had happened. I will make another voting system just for those who do end up watching it in the first hour and tell me in no simpler terms what happens. That way if it is good and either Lokius happens or he just ends up with Mobius as a friend and partner then I will watch it. If the opposite happens then don't even ask me to watch it. Just saving my fragile soul from anymore heartache I have suffered from this year especially with GO S2.

So to all our fellow Lokius supporters and those who just want Loki to just have friends and no romantic relationship I wish you all the best, its been an honor being apart of this community and no matter what happens in this troubled and no so greatly written show, Lokius was canon in our eyes and made alot more sense then whatever the hell Sylki was.

#loki #loki critical #loki negativity #loki series critical #loki series negativity #antisylki #loki and mobius #lokius

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blondie20000 · 6 months

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Pain is So Close to Pleasure - Loki x Sylvie

Warning 18 + fic.

AU where instead of the bar Sylvie decides to take Loki home and offers him a drink there also instead of saying I want my friends back he now says "I want you." I think us Sylki fans were waiting for that confession. Lol

"I want you!" Loki finally admitted with a gasp. He quickly looks away his cheeks blushing pink. "Us." He swallows. "I miss us I haven't been able to stop thinking about what happened...the fight...the kiss." He turns back to face her. His eyes shine with tears. "When I saw you moved on, made a life for yourself I...I didn't know what to do at least at the TVA I had a purpose there people who need me...You don't need me anymore and I...I don't want to be alone."

A tear slowly rolls down his cheek.

Sylvie puts her glass down and looks at her counterpart. She said nothing she didn't need to say anything she expected this from him for ages he has denied what they had but now he has finally admitted his true intentions and feelings for her.

Sylvie takes a deep breath. She missed him too, she missed them, their connection their bond. She may have started a life for herself but she never stopped thinking about him. However despite all that she couldn't let him off that easily he hurt her, betrayed her he promised her he would stay by her side and he blew it.

"If that is what you want." Sylvie raises her eyebrow. "You need to prove yourself." He frowns at that. "You did betray me." Sylvie continued. "Turned on me."

"Sylvie."

"Let me finish." She cut him off. "You hurt me that day How do you expect me to accept you back? For all I know you could betray me again."

"Never." He sworn.

She shakes her head.

"That's not enough Loki."

"What do I need to do? How do I prove myself to you?"

"Maybe you can't. You are a Loki after all. Maybe this whole conversation is a waste of time." He looked like he is ready to argue but she stops him. "Loki your friends are safe and sound and I'm okay. Its over now go and write your own story, make a life of your own."

Sylvie stands up and smooths her outfit down. Loki stared at her with shock and disbelief. Sylvie turns away not wanting to see his face. She couldn't express her vulnerability around him. Not this time.

Suddenly Sylvie heard a thud. She turns round and what she sees shocks her.

Loki is kneeling yes kneeling down on the ground. He looks up at her his eyes wide.

"Sylvie...Please don't leave please..." He shakes his head. "I can't do it again."

Sylvie huffs and folds her arms.

"I mean what I said." He continued. "I want you and I'm sorry for what happened but you have to understand killing him has put us all at risk."

"But it hasn't. We're fine now."

"At the time we didn't know that." He grits his teeth. "I was just trying to do the right thing."

"Sure."

"I screwed up too many times now and for once...for once I wanted to do something right."

"And you still can." Sylvie said. "Walk away, let us go."

"I can't let you go."

"Why is that Loki?"

"Because." His voice trailed off.

"Because." She pressed him.

"Because I love you."

Sylvie closes her eyes at those words. Warmth filled her chest. She wanted to kiss him right now but she already made it clear she couldn't let him off that easily.

He needed to be taught a lesson.

Sylvie looms over him. Her mere presence made Loki sink back on his knees. She kept a straight face on not wanting to give him any satisfaction.

"If that is true."

"Enchant me. Look in my mind and see for yourself."

Sylvie didn't need to look. Her gut told her he is telling the truth.

"Boring." She laughs. "But you could prove yourself in another way."

He nods. He looked so desperate.

"Anything."

A devilish smirk spreads across her lips. Her eyes glint with mischief. She then extends her hand out.

"Come with me."

.............

Loki lies on the bed his clothes discarded to the side. Sylvie stood at the foot of the bed fully dressed. She holds up several ropes.

"What's that for?" He asked.

He received a slap to the face.

"Silence!" She glared. "You speak when I tell you to. Got it?"

His eyes blow wide at that.

"Syl..."

"Yes or no."

Suddenly too stunned to speak Loki only responds with a nod.

"Good." She then grabs his hand and ties it to the post of the bed. "Now I know you could break these but if you do that you will be in big trouble. You don't want to make me mad do you Loki?"

His mind immediately goes to all the times she has hit him and kicked him. The thought of that made him shake his head. She nods.

"Thought so."

Once she finished tying his hands and feet Sylvie returns to the foot of the bed and starts to undress herself.

Loki held his breath as Sylvie slowly stripped her down. Lastly she removes her bra followed by her panties. She waves them in the air and teases him. Then she tosses them with the other pieces of clothing.

The Goddess climbs on to the bed. She sits between his thighs and looks down at him. Loki is breathing heavily. He eyes her up and down the need to touch her starting to consume him. If he attempted to touch her he knew he will most likely end up in a ditch somewhere. He realized Sylvie is now running the show she's the one in control here and he wasn't going to fight her on it. He already lost her once he didn't want to lose her again. Also she looked freaking hot towering over him with that naughty glint in her eyes. He can already imagine all the things he wanted her to do to him.

Sylvie leans forward and locks her lips with his. Loki tries to go forward but the restrains held him back. A whine escapes him as he desperately wants to be near her but fortunately Sylvie presses herself against him. Her tongue pushes all the way in and rolls along with his. Moments later Sylvie pulls away

Another whine escapes Loki's lips.

Sylvie runs her hands over his body. She then paused and brushed her fingers over his manhood. He groans at the touch. Her fingers curl around his cock and she strokes him. The long, tender strokes sent jolts of electricity through him.

"Sy..."

She immediately loosens her hold and gives him a glare. He shuts his mouth not wanting to breathe another word he didn't want her to stop.

When Sylvie knew the message came across she returns to stroking his length again. He has already become hard. The sight of his big, hard cock in her hands made her wet.

Damm.

Focus Sylvie focus.

Sylvie lets go of his cock and returns to her position between his knees.

"With pleasure there is pain." She said.

Suddenly a dagger appears in her hand.

Loki gives her a questioning look.

"I can't let you get away with what you did." She said her tone cold. "You must pay. Do you understand?"

He nods.

"Speak!"

"Yes...Sylvie I understand."

She brings the dagger down on his chest. She didn't like causing people pain but she had to do this she needed Loki to feel what she felt.

"You are a God you will heal."

Her eyes shift on to him. Loki can see a storm playing behind those eyes. Rage, anguish, pain and suffering all rolling across her face. He did this to her he made her feel like this.

I'm sorry.

He gives her an apologetic look.

But that wasn't enough for Sylvie.

With a deep breath Sylvie pierced his skin the dagger goes straight through. Loki's screams are cut off when she covers his mouth with her hand. She closes her eyes and sighs heavily. She then removes the dagger and makes another cut on his stomach. Loki's screams continued to be muffled. Tears started to roll down his face.

Sylvie kept going. She sliced and cut into his skin.

Loki never once fought back. He sworn he will prove to himself to her he will do anything for her. He will stick to that promise for her.

Eventually Sylvie removes her hand and allows herself to embrace his pain. It thrills her, pleases her.

Disgusting thoughts and emotions.

But Lokis are not perfect are they?

Everyone had a dark side.

Blood is pouring down his body. Sylvie scoops up some of the blood with her finger. She brings it up to her nose and smells it. It made her realize that he chose to bleed for her. This is all for her. With that thought in mind Sylvie licks the blood.

And she made him watch.

Loki obeyed and stared straight at her.

Sylvie holds up the dagger.

"Love is a dagger." She echoed his words back at him.

She puts the dagger down on the table and returns her attention back to him. The cuts on his body have healed now. She kisses him again and licks up his tears. She runs her fingers through his curls and sadly shakes her head.

He looked so scared.

She told him to reveal his fear.

He answered.

"You."

"Of me?"

"No." He shakes his head. "I'm afraid that you will leave me."

She holds on to the back of his head. She gently strokes his cheek. She couldn't see a God.

She saw a scared little boy who didn't want to be alone.

"Please don't leave me." The familiar plea returns to his lips. "I can't live without you."

He goes to bring his hand forward but she stops him.

"You know the rules."

He sighs.

"You are selfish." She suddenly says.

He furrowed his eyebrows at that.

"Its always about you its about what you want. What about me? What about what I want?" His lips are pressed into a thin line. She cups his chin and forces him to look at her. "Ask me. Ask me what I want?"

"What do you want?" He asked.

She leans forward her hot breath hits his face. Loki gazes at her lips and thought of how badly he wanted to kiss them again.

"You know I want." She replied. She goes towards his ear and whispers. "I want you to fuck me."

He gasped at the words.

"You want me? You love me? Now is your time to prove it." Sylvie then hitched her body forward. Loki bites his lip as his eyes go on to her entrance. Sylvie looks down at him. "What do I want Loki?"

"You want me to make love to you."

Her lips curl into an amused smirk.

"Close. It begun with an F and ended with a K." His cheeks turned a shade of pink. "Don't embarrassed I want to hear that dirty mouth of yours. Come on pretty boy what do I want?"

"You want me to fuck you." He mumbled.

"Louder."

"You want me to fuck you!"

"Louder!"

"YOU WANT ME TO FUCK YOU!"

"Do you want to fuck me!"

"Yes...Norms Yes!" He gasped.

She looks down at him again. Her eyes darken with lust.

"Then fuck me." She growled.

She sits down on his face.

He pushes his tongue in.

His tongue slides between the folds and immediately hits a sensitive area.

Sylvie gasps.

Loki smiles to himself.

Sylvie throws her head back as Loki hungrily licked her up and down. He pushes his tongue deep inside her and slides it up, down and around her vagina.

Sylvie pushes herself down on to him. She moans as he sucks on to her wet folds.

"Loki!" She groaned. "Fuck!"

He continued to fuck her with his tongue. Each jolt sent a charge of power through her. She can feel her magic thrumming beneath her fingertips. Little green sparks shoot out whenever Loki hit a weak spot.

"SO GOOD ARGH!"

He brightened at those words.

She sensed this and gave him more praise. The more he received the more determined he became. Loki wanted to please her he wanted to be the one who can make her like this. The sounds the noises that is all because of him. She is enjoying this.

That makes him happy.

Sylvie can feel the orgasm coming on.

"Loki I am going to cum." She grabs a handful of his hair and pulls him in her. "You are going to try it but don't swallow okay?"

He nods.

Sylvie then let go.

Once Sylvie let it out she quickly slides off him and her lips return to his.

"Don't swallow." She repeated.

She pushes her tongue in. They both tasted the saltiness of her cum. She closes her eyes as they shared their intimate moment. She is leaving a part of her in him. A way of giving piece by piece of herself to him.

He moaned into the kiss. Sylvie taps his throat urging him to swallow.

He did.

Sylvie continued to kiss him.

He savored every part of her. Enjoyed the way his lips connected with hers. This it felt right.

Sylvie then moves and leaves a trail of kisses down his collarbone. She latches on to his nipples and sucks hard at them. He arched up at that. He wanted to cry out but remembered he couldn't make a sound. The Goddess touches her mouth.

"Dirty mouth. I want to hear it."

He responds with a cry of her name.

Sylvie pretended that didn't have a massive impact on her. She kept a straight face as her tongue rolls down his abs. She grips his waist and digs her fingers hard into it.

"Shit!" He cursed.

"You do have a perfect waist." She said in a teasing tone.

Overall you are perfect.

She didn't say that out loud but the admiration in her eyes as she examined him said it all. Loki might be a pain in the ass but his body is a work of art.

She plants a kiss on his stomach to show that.

She positions herself in front of his cock.

"Now as you have been a good boy." She gestures to the ropes. "I will let you use your hands."

He straightened up at that. His face eager he badly wanted to touch her.

She wanted his big hands touching her all over too.

She removes the restrains but kept his feet tied up she wanted to make sure he remained in his bottom position Lokis do like to come out on top.

But not this time.

"Are you ready?" She asked.

"Yes."

"Yes what?"

"Yes Sylvie."

She nods and smiles.

"You want to make me happy Loki."

"I do."

She holds on to his length.

"You done so well so far don't screw it up."

"I won't. I will never let you down Sylvie."

She starts to bring him inside her. Her eyes remained locked on to his. Loki can already feel himself getting hard again.

Once he is fully inside her Loki then turned feral. He grabs her waist and pulls her down on him. He meets her with each thrust starting off slow then eventually they picked up the pace.

"FUCK!" She cried.

He growls in response.

He looks at her breasts and seeks her premission to touch them. She gives him permission. Without hesitation Loki grasps the nipple with his mouth and pulls hard at it. Sylvie shuddered and pushes her chest on to him demanding more. Loki happily obliged.

He then touches her breasts with his hands. He fondled them, he squeezed them hard. He allows his hands to travel all over her body wanting to soak up every part of her.

Norms she is everything.

He twirls his fingers in her hair and cups her cheek with his other hand. She lies her head into his palm. A little smile spreads across her face.

She turns and kisses his palm.

Loki smiles back.

Soon the smile vanished from her face. She abruptly pulls away. She gives him another hard thrust causing him to moan. Sylvie suddenly reaches out and wraps her hand around his throat.

Loki gasped with surprise.

Sylvie tightened her hold on him.

Another gasp comes from him followed by a series of coughs.

Sylvie pushes Loki's head further back. She closes her eyes as she hears him struggling beneath her.

I have to do this.

Pain and pleasure.

She needed him to understand. She needed him to share her pain. This is what it felt like when her life was sucked out her. Her family, friends her home all gone before her very eyes. Another thing died that day as well.

Her innocence.

She had to form a wall around herself. A shield to protect her from the forces that wanted to hurt her. For centuries she had to run , constantly looking over her shoulder, fearing for her life doing everything she can to survive.

Loki's hands go on to hers. He is pushing her off him.

Flight or fight response has kicked in.

A feeling she had to endure all her life.

Now he can experience it.

She looks at his panicked expression.

It's like looking in a mirror.

He tried to call her name.

She shakes her head.

Then after a few moments he stopped fighting. He stares at her.

Then he lowers his hands.

She frowns with confusion.

"I...I...I understand." He said between gasps. "I...know...I know you won't kill me."

He trusted her.

With his life.

That is because he understands her.

"I've been where you are." His words echoed in her mind.

He places his hand on her wrist. His eyes soften.

"Together." He croaked.

He is willing to share her burden.

She wasn't alone in this anymore.

She knew that now.

That caused tears to form in her eyes.

He gives a shaky smile.

She loosens her grip on him. She quickly brushes away the tears. The mask slips back on.

"Don't slow down now." She forced a smile.

He continued to please her.

She moaned with delight.

It was like music to Loki's ears.

She can feel herself getting close again. Judging by his screwed up face she knew he is close too.

She gave him permission to let go.

He did.

He tightened his hold on her. He buried his face into her chest as he let it all out.

Then she followed. She clenched her teeth. She tugged hard at his hair and allowed the next wave to ride itself out.

Once it was all out Sylvie sighed.

She is content.

Peaceful.

Like a weight has been lifted off her shoulders.

Loki couldn't stop staring at her. He feared if he looked away even for a second she will be gone.

He didn't want to lose her.

Not again.

He whimpered at the thought.

Sylvie noticed his sudden distress.

She climbs off him and removes the restrains from his feet. After that she sits back down on the bed and brushes the hair away from his face.

He looks at her with worry in his eyes.

Has he done enough?

Will he ever be enough for her?

She opens her arms out.

"Come here baby."

He went into her arms. She wraps her arms around him and holds him tight.

"Don't leave." He said a sob rising inside him.

She soothes him. She plants a kiss on his head. He lies on her chest and takes in the comfort.

It's been so long since somebody comforted him.

"You mean what you said." She said moments later. "Together?"

"You go I go." He answered.

He intertwined his fingers with hers.

She squeezed his hand.

"I'm not going anywhere." She assured him. He exhaled a sigh of relief. "But for this to work we need to be on the same page."

Loki agreed with her.

He squeezed her hand back.

Then Sylvie had a thought.

"Hey you haven't done that...Whatever the Hell that was back at McDonald's."

"Oh...Yes you are right." He smiles. He thought back to O.B's words. "I'm where I need to be." His smile widens. "It's the who. You."

He kisses her on the lips. She kisses him back.

She kept him grounded.

He is her anchor.

They belonged together.

He told her he loved her again.

Sylvie wasn't that great with words. She preferred conveying her feelings through actions. So she lies him down on the bed.

"Ask me." She said her voice husky. "What do I want?"

"What do you want?" He asked with a soft smile.

She leans forward and whispers.

"I want you to make love to me. Now say it what do I want?"

He gives her a teasing smirk.

"To fuck you."

She laughed.

He happily accepted her request with more passion and hunger than before.

And this time they did together as equals.

The End

#fanfiction #one shot #fanfic #smut #sylvie laufeydottir #sylki #sylki fanfic #loki x sylvie #sub loki #loki show #loki layfeson #loki series #loki spoilers #loki #loki season two #love confessions #love #angst #hurt/comfort

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nostalgia-tblr · 6 months

Text

Okay actually I do have a proper thought on the "sylki is incest" wank. which is that the "anti" take seems to be that Loki/Sylvie is obviously, glaringly, an incestuous pairing but its shippers deliberately ignore that because they like the pairing otherwise (yet also the accusation involves them liking the incest element... honestly it's a bit of a muddle, but let's move on). But. Well, here's the thing that is obvious, at least to me...

Go to AO3 and have a look to find the most popular (in terms of number of works) Loki pairing in the Marvel Cinematic Universe fandom as a whole. Actually, i'll save you the effort:

(These numbers are slightly out-of-date but the ratios remain accurate. I checked.)

Now, that. That is an incest pairing, isn't it? There is some fic which specifies an AU of some sort in which Thor and Loki are not related to each other but most of it is about brothers who are also lovers.

"But they're not really related," you say? Sorry, but in the important ways, they are. Every one of those films, and the Loki series, frames them as siblings-with-issues, and yes one of those issues is whether or not they agree that they are siblings, but I'd say the MCU comes down pretty firmly on the side of "they totally are."

And the point I'm making here is that the actual incest pairing is treated as such by its fans. If you don't feel up to reading any thorki fic I'll save you again and say that it overall leans into the "forbidden love" angle, and the shame and internal conflict of an incestuous attraction or relationship. So shippers of a given pairing do indeed know what incest is and they rarely try to avoid that aspect of such pairings.

Whereas. If you read the Loki/Sylvie stuff, that whole "thorki vibe" is entirely absent. Fans vary on variants, in terms of in what ways these two are or are not "the same person" but they agree on one thing: fucking some other version of yourself is not incest. This is pretty much a unanimous belief, and here I'll mention something else I think is relevant: there are a few sylki twincest AUs (many of which seem to have been written out of spite - LOL, fandom!) and in all of those the AU also features another crucial change - they are not both Loki variants in those fics.

Yeah, that's right! To make Loki and Sylvie siblings you have to remove the selfcest element entirely. Because - this may shock some of you, so sit down before you read this next part - you are not your own sibling. Even identical twins are obviously different people. A clone of yourself might get us into more philosophical territory but that's not what multiversal variants are either. Allow me to illustrate with another informative image:

You get me? Yeah, you get me.

So, to meander towards an actual conclusion here. The MCU!Loki fandom does not, in general, refuse to accept that romantic/sexual pairings that would be incestuous actually are incestuous. In fact if anything it embraces that element of such pairings. It is usually seen as the defining feature of them. If they think siblings are fucking then they will write about those siblings fucking, and they will not be shy about it!

And aside from that mentioned handful of AU fics, sylki is not written as incest. Because it just isn't incest. Look, if you personally see Loki and Sylvie as siblings to the point where the pairing squicks you out, then fair enough there's not much either of us can do about that. Do your best to avoid that content and don't be a wanker about it and I wish you well in your endeavours. But that isn't what most of the complaints stem from, is it? As usual in recent years fans who didn't like a pairing (which, btw, is allowed) wanted to have the moral high ground and some bright spark hit upon "this pairing is INCEST" via some slightly odd logic and it spread from there. Because we can't just not like something, can we? (Actually, that's also allowed!) No, we have to be better than those fans over there, who are all terrible people in some way. They are problematic.

And this is a lot of words for me to essentially say "no, the sylki fic and the thorki fic have very different vibes actually" but... well, they do. The sylki shippers are not denying the incest, because there is no incest there, and even if we for a moment pretend that "siblings" is a reasonable and indeed expected interpretation of the variants concept, it is clear from their content that the people who ship Loki/Sylvie do not see them that way. And that has nothing to do with DNA or otherwise, which I can prove with this very quick question: in one word (or less, if you can), what is the relationship between Loki and Thor?

You said "brothers" or "siblings," didn't you? No, you did. I know for a fact that you did, don't play coy with me on this. We all understand that these two characters who definitely share no DNA are, in every way that matters, brothers. This is not a difficult concept, it's not somehow confusing large numbers of fans either way.

tl;dr - Sylki isn't incest but if it was we'd all know that because the fans of it would not be constantly denying what would, almost certainly, be the main appeal of that pairing for them if that was the case. You can deny that all you want but 11,731 thorki fics (as of 10th December 2023) back me up on this one.

So there.

#sylki #thorki #loki series #cw: incest #like actually incest WHICH WE ALL RECOGNISE WHEN WE SEE IT DON'T WE JAN???#fandom wank #wow that was a lot of words to state the completely obvious #if anyone's wondering yes i have read and written both sylki and thorki fic. PLEASE be sure to cancel me for the right one.

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