#and then Tommy say how Eret is the only true king of the SMP and that he forgives her

[thal-ent]

/RP crying over Eret and Tommy's relationship and how it was Rocky but in the end they obviously Care so much for each other

#thal talk #eret #tommyinnit #dream smp #the eret #like... they states as very brotherly and Tommy would try to prank Eret and she was always calm and very nice about it she's just very chill #then she betrayed them and Tommy was so hurt. because she was like a brother to him #and he tried to convince himself of the idea that Wilbur gave him that Eret is nothing more than a traitor #then L'Manberg is destroyed. Eret tries to help him. L'Manberg is destroyed again and Eret offers him help. #and then Tommy say how Eret is the only true king of the SMP and that he forgives her #and then Tommy dies and Eret learns from someone else #and now she lost her little brother again

[dreamsclock]

do you have a couple of links or some analysis on eret's betrayal and how it wasn't manipulation by dream? since i came a little late and my friend keeps on saying it was so i'm kinda confused :(

no links, but i can provide some analysis specifically on how c!eret’s betrayal wasn’t him being manipulated !! 

in short, they were in a war. c!dream, rather than employing manipulation, instead employed military tactics - if i remember correctly, c!eret came to him with the offer of betrayal, and c!dream took them up on the offer, and that was it. that’s not manipulation - c!eret wasn’t manipulated into that, and indeed didn’t even regret it straight away. there’s video evidence (which i can’t find but if someone has it would be awesome lol) of c!dream asking c!eret if they regretted the betrayal right after it happened, to which c!eret very confidently responded that they didn’t.

the definition of manipulating is “control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly or unscrupulously”. and honestly, this is where i question a LOT of the fandom’s insistence that c!dream is a master of manipulation - because he’s just,, not? yes, he seeks to control and influence, but a majority of the time, apart from,, exile, probably, and then over c!tubbo, c!dream doesn’t succeed in his manipulation. re: c!eret’s betrayal and cc!eret claiming c!eret is the longer victim of c!dream’s manipulation, i don’t think “manipulation” is entirely the right word - there is no indication that c!eret was manipulated into betrayal, and no sign that c!dream forced them into doing something they didn’t want to do.

i didn’t follow the rest of c!eret’s storyline incredibly closely, but i remember their encounter before the manberg war, where c!dream gave them an ultimatum: either they stay neutral, or they get dethroned. even that,, isn’t manipulation? it’s c!dream enunciating more clearly the position of king - if c!eret chose to get involved in the war, which they had no part in and had no reason to join other than loyalty/guilt/desire for redemption, they would lose their position as king. it’s the same reason c!george lost his position as king (with c!dream’s added desire to protect c!george from being hurt) and isn’t manipulation, it’s enforcing the rules of being king. c!dream made it clear he wants the ruler of the smp to be neutral - c!eret actively defying this was defiance of those terms (which they Knew even from day one): they knew what would happen. i wouldn’t class any of this as manipulation.

if there’s anything i’ve missed though, any c!dream and c!eret encounters anyone thinks WOULD class as manipulation, pls lmk !! as far as i can see though, the only people c!dream actually and successfully manipulated were c!tommy and c!tubbo. if this isn’t true pls lmk :))

#> my asks !! #> my analysis !! #c!eret critical #not rlly but just in case #tw manipulation

[evienyx]

DSMP Citizens POV- Part 1

I've seen a lot of the memes going around, but I'm not funny enough to write that, so here's my addition to the trend :p

This is part one, because I had a lot of fun with this and want to do it more.

- - -

DSMP Citizen POV Masterlist

- - -

Sometimes, it was odd for the residents of the Dream SMP to be reminded of the fact that the constant state of chaos that their server was in was not, in fact, reflective of every server.

"Why did we move here?" One woman in Snowchester whispers to another as the sirens go off for yet another nuke test and they duck down into their bunker.

The other shrugs. She doesn't have an answer. No one does.

Things started out all right, the people supposed. There weren't any wars, at least. Some of those who lived on the server before the Revolution could remember back far enough to tell you about the first true conflict, between Dream, the creator of their home, and TommyInnit, a sixteen-year-old who could yell shockingly loud, even for a teenager. Dream fought against Tommy and Tubbo (yet another teenager), and it seemed to all be in good fun.

Some will tell you now, though, that the signs of tension were already there, and when Wilbur Soot joined, those tensions only escalated.

One moment, things on the server were normal, the next, there was a Revolution.

"Did anyone else hear Dream shouting about 'white flags' this morning?" One person would ask their friends, and receive nods in return. "Anyone know what it's about?"

"A Revolution," one would respond. "Wilbur Soot and TommyInnit are starting a new country."

"Oh," the first would hum. "How long until they get completely crushed?"

"Eh, I give 'em a week."

It was only a week, but it did not end the way anyone thought it would. Instead, L'Manburg gained its independence after TommyInnit gave up his discs once he lost a duel with Dream.

"Is the L'Manburg cabinet missing someone?"

"No, I don't think so. Anyway, did you hear that Dream just declared that Eret is to be crowned king?"

"...Can he do that?"

"He's Dream. He can do whatever he wants."

After the Revolution, when the server finally had more than one ruling faction, more than one place to live, things seemed to pick up a bit. President Soot, with Vice President Innit (VP Tommy, the people called him), ruled over L'Manburg, and called it a place of freedom. When word spread to other servers, people came to see for themselves.

And often, they stayed.

It was peaceful, for a while.

"President Soot announced he's holding an election," one man said to his wife one day.

"Really?"

"Yeah. Said it was for democracy." The man snorted. "He and Innit are the only party running, though. Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me."

"Darling, I know you're still salty about losing the war, but there's no reason to talk bad about a child," his wife said.

The man wrinkled his nose. "Still."

It was peaceful during the campaign.

For a while.

Then, though, Quackity announced that he was running for president, with GeorgeNotFound, best friend of Dream himself, as his running mate.

"This feels like a sitcom," one girl says as she watches the debate reruns with her friends.

"At least it's entertaining," her friend replies, shoving popcorn into his mouth.

And, for the people of the Dream SMP, from both L'Manburg and the Greater SMP, it was entertaining.

Until the election results came in, Schlatt was declared the winner, and President Soot and VP Tommy were banished.

"Dude, dude!" One teen says to their friends, running up to meet them on the Prime Path.

"What is it?"

"I just saw Technoblade join the server!"

The arrival of the Blood God shifted something in the people of the Dream SMP. When he joined Pogtopia, the rebellion being led by the two ex-leaders of the country, the people felt something settle within themselves.

All of a sudden, choosing sides wasn't as simple as where you live.

It was what you care about.

As the son of the ex-president burned down the old flag, the people of the Dream SMP, of (L')Manburg and of the Greater SMP, realized suddenly that they had to make a choice.

Without even wanting to, without doing anything to deserve it, they would have to fight.

Some people went to Pogtopia, some stayed in Manburg, some in the Greater SMP. Those in the latter two stayed where they were because they wanted to stay out of it.

It didn't change anything, in the end.

In Manburg, they watched their president (Emperor) fall further and further into alcohol, yelling at his cabinet and talking of expanding into territory that they had no right to.

In the Greater SMP, murmurs of King Eret's attempts to assist the Pogtopia rebels filled the alleyways.

In Pogtopia, people sat and watched the decline of the man that they had all once believed in. As Wilbur Soot slowly devolved until he was no longer recognizable as the man who had once led people to freedom, the residents of Pogtopia ate potatoes farmed by a man famous for his bloodlust and pretended that they were sleeping somewhere warm.

The day of the Manburg Festival, though, things felt better. Other than ex-president Soot and ex-VP Tommy (Wilbur and Tommy, the two insisted. No one listened), everyone, even the rebels in Pogtopia, were invited to attend. The people wandered through the stalls playing games, watching as Soot's son attempted (in vain) to drown Technoblade, buying food, and chatting with people from other factions, friends and family that they hadn't spoken to in weeks.

When the time came for the speeches, before the true festivities were set to begin, everyone was feeling good about the day. People congratulated Secretary Tubbo for a successful event, and offered him small words of encouragement for his speech coming up. The teenager would grin at all who spoke to him, and looked (rightfully) proud of how well he organized and decorated the festival.

Secretary Tubbo gave his speech, and people clapped, and then fell silent as President (Emperor) Schlatt laughed, asked for his Vice-President's assistance, and encased the teenager in a cage of concrete.

And then he called Technoblade to the stage.

And then, in front of the people of the Dream SMP, a teenager was executed in a spray of color that shot toward the sky.

Fireworks rained down on the people in the stands, then, and, regardless of where they were from, the people of the Dream SMP ran.

The Pogtopia ranks grew that day, and a nineteen-year-old who claimed to be a doctor without showing any credentials forced four other people to help her heal VP Tommy after he fought Technoblade in a pit, egged on by a man who once might have called himself his brother.

"How is this kid not dead yet?" One of the helpers asked, looking at the unconscious teenager's face.

"Pure spite?"

The first hummed. "Sounds about right."

One day, a bit after the festival, the people of Pogtopia woke to find Vice President Quackity walking through the ravine as if he owned the place.

One resident was noted to rub his eyes, blink three times, and then say, "It's too early for this shit," before heading back to bed.

A surprising number of people followed his lead.

Finally, the day of November 16th came, when Wilbur Soot and TommyInnit vowed to take their country back.

"I heard President Soot is planning to blow up L'Manburg," one Pogtopian woman mentioned to her friend as they suited up and prepared to fight, as they had signed up to be part of the forces.

"That's stupid," her friend replied.

"Bet you ten diamonds he blows something up."

"Fine."

As the country of L'Manburg blew sky-high, one woman was seen following another, screaming that she wanted her diamonds.

When Pogtopia won the war, the forces from both sides sat outside of the remains of the van as President Soot, VP Tommy, Secretary Tubbo, Dream, Technoblade, and many more, all piled inside to confront Emperor Schlatt.

They emerged fifteen minutes later, and Dream announced to the crowd that Schlatt was dead.

There was no time for the news to sink in, as they played hot potato with the presidency, going from VP Tommy to Wilbur Soot to Secretary Tubbo.

"President Soot is leaving, do you see that?"

"Probably going to the river to celebrate the win, if you know what I mean."

"Literally shut up. Never speak again. I hate you."

As the newly-inaugurated President Tubbo finished his speech, the people felt a wave of relief wash over them. Maybe the server could finally be peaceful once more.

Then, there was the tell-tale hiss of explosives under their feet, and the people ran as the ground beneath them fell away.

Stories of what happened next are conflicting, to say the least.

Words of President Soot dying in the explosion, of him turning the blade on himself, of another man killing him.

"He had wings," people who saw the man said. "Blonde hair, a green hat and robes. He stabbed Soot with the guy's own sword."

Technoblade apparently gave an incredible speech, and anyone who was there to witness it lamented that they hadn't recorded it.

Then, two Withers flew through the sky, and blood ran down the newly-exposed stones, and people who had never experienced death on the server before finally knew what it was like to die.

Afterward, though, when the anarchist had fled and the ex-President lay dead, President Tubbo, with VP Tommy by his side, stood and addressed the people, and made promises of a brighter future, and the hope and determination in his eyes was enough for the people to hope that maybe he was right.

("Whoa, cool wings, dude," a resident of L'Manburg said to their newest neighbor, a man in green with wings, burned across all the feathers, sprouting from his back. "Wait, what happened to them?"

"Oh, I was protecting my son from the explosion," the new resident replied.

"Oh, I'm so sorry. Is your son all right at least?"

"No, he died just a few minutes afterward. His last life, too." The man sighed. "As much as I hate to admit it, he probably deserved it."

A beat. "What did he do?"

"Well, you may have heard of him. Wilbur Soot? He was the president here before Schlatt, I believe."

"...Holy shit, you're the bird man that killed President Soot!"

"Yeah, mate, that's me."

"...He was your son?"

"...Yeah."

"...What the fuck is wrong with your family?")

#dsmp citizen pov #dream smp #dsmp #dsmp citizen memes #these memes have been the funniest thing stg #theyre bringing some good laughs to me at the least #anyway this one was a little angsty and a little long-winded #i wanna do one soon that is more direct #like from the pov of one particular person #when i have time i will bc this was really fun #mcyt #tommyinnit #wilbur soot #dsmp citizens #tubbo #dream

[dreamsmp-au-ideas]

Fantasy Merchant Punz headcanons? On my blog? More likely than you think!

I have brainrot and I can not stop. Featuring Lore because why not?

-Punz's shop is filled with weapons, potions, armor, and other things. Everything really an adventurer needs

-The shop is the most successful in all of the SMP lands due to how much things are in there and the fact that they are at the highest quality

-Punz will not recognize you as anyone famous. He just goes off on how you looked when you first entered. This happened with Eret as Punz was unaware that the fucking ex-king entered his shop and casually talked to him until Purpled pointed that out

-Punz briefly worked as a mercenary under a different name for a bit. It was mainly just so he can get enough money to build the shop

-Tommy is the chosen one sponsored by Church Prime and he is destined to destroy the Egg and stop Dream from taking over the lands

-This information is true but also subverted completely. The real hero is Punz and him just showing basic human decency and altruism. He doesn't have to but he chose to. We love to see it

-Also he got super pissed when his shop burned down and he found out that Dream stole his necromancy book and just beats him up

-Tommy's team consists of Wilbur, Tubbo, Ranboo, and Purpled (after some bribing and friendship vibes)

-Karl is an archivist who occasionally goes into Punz's shop for some potions and weapons. Also he sometimes forgets that Punz's shop is not the archives and Punz just goes and gently tells him where to go whenever that happens

-Foolish is still a god here. He is immortal and when he saw Punz, he mistakes him for Punz's ancestor, who he was friends with hundreds of years ago

-Punz refuses to sell artifacts that he knows are dangerous or at least extremely valuable in terms of quests

-Some of the items include The Sacred Sword (Named W'manberg by Puffy, Punzo Blade of Justice by Punz), the Necromancy Book (unfortunately stolen), a Totem of Undying (given to his ancestor as a sign of good will from Foolish), and a box that he's pretty sure is cursed but is too scared to throw away (it contains the souls of the villagers from the Town that went Mad)

-He talks to the box just out of fear that if he isn't nice to it he will get cursed so he just talks to it every day even though he is terrified of it

-The spirits trapped in there greatly appreciate the company and talking points from Punz even though he's scared of them

-The only time he willingly gave those items to someone is when Puffy talked about how the Eggpire situation is getting bad and that the only way to defeat it is by finding the same sword that killed the Crimson all those years ago. But that's impossible. That sword has been gone for years!

-And then Punz just listens to this and slowly thinks: Wait. Do- Do I have that sword in my basement?

-So he tells Puffy to stay there and then gives her the sword. Soon he says that okay. You can have the sword but you have to give it back afterwards. Also I'm going to come with you because I want to make sure it doesn't break and it's definitely not because I care for you and worry that you might get hurt. Nope. Not at all

-When the shop burned down, Punz was incredibly devastated by this. Just devastated as he just watched his life's work just burn down to ashes. The basement was fine and the artifacts were okay but the shop was gone

-Cue comfort from everyone who's with him

#dream smp #dream smp au #fantasy merchant punz au #punz #eret #the eret #purpled #tommyinnit #tubbo #ranboo #wilbur soot #karl jacobs #foolishg #foolish gamers #captain puffy #long post #?

[findingjoynweirdstuff]

Something I find interesting is the emphasis Dream places on neutrality, and it’s something I wanna mull over a bit more. 

In Dream’s eyes, a country can only be recognized if it’s neutral - including his own. He could only recognize L’manburg once Tubbo was president -- a person he saw as a pawn and a follower, who always placed emphasis on logic and reason over emotionally-driven action. He sees anything less than neutrality from Eret as a betrayal of Dream SMP, because it would pull the country into a conflict that it isn’t a part of. And yet he saw himself in the same light too, hesitant to get involved directly in the conflict at first, because that would break the peace treaty -- that would break the neutrality. Eret may be the puppet king, but even as the true ruler of Dream SMP, Dream didn’t let himself get involved except from the shadows. 

He tells Quackity that SWAG’s campaign is commendable because it has one cabinet member from L’manburg and one from Dream SMP -- a neutral party. Yet, throughout the Election he’s quite neutral there too -- when Quackity asks if he’s endorsing anyone, he doesn’t say any party at all. Just “justice” repeatedly. 

He tells Skeppy that all he asks of him is to not start any wars. The one thing he wants from Skeppy is to not involve himself in conflict.

He insists to Quackity that he’s not involving himself with Quackity’s politics, only with his personal conflict with Tommy.

The Holy Land’s whole rule is a rule based on neutrality, and Dream is the sole enforcer. You can’t kill in the Holy Land. It’s a neutral-zone, and Dream refers to the Holy Land as part of his agenda.

He tells Tommy that not only has he never been on Tommy’s team, but he’s never been on anyone’s.

Now, obviously Dream isn’t actually completely neutral. He interferes with the goings-on of the server all the time, he takes the exile conflict and escalates it tenfold. 

Yet, I still find it interesting how his own efforts to explain himself always seem to involve neutrality, because whether or not those explanations line up with his actual actions, hypocrisy and all, it does still say something about his attitude all the same -- that he thinks neutrality is even a good justification to begin with. 

#dream smp #dream smp analysis

[justalads]

this is an essay post that was written in response to an in-depth discussion i was having with another person on a lot of topics. that’s why it’s written like it’s addressing someone. because of that, it is a little confusing on its own (because the things in quotes are responding to things the other person said) but me and the person who runs this blog thought it would be better to make this a separate post, so that people who want to see this response can see it without it being attached to the person i was having the discussion with. we spoke to the person and they said that would be fine. with that being said, this is a very long post. if anyone finds parts of it useful, it will have served its original purpose.

so what i mean about it “making sense” that dream became like that is that it kind of does, you know? i’m saying that the desires were always there. not that he was always willing to go so far for them, or even that they were as strong as they ended up being! after all, there’s a difference between declaring war to reclaim land and people, and making a vault in order to take things that were important to people.

what he always did possess is a sort of “ownership” of the server. and this was probably founded from the fact that it was, you know, his server. he wanted l’manburg back because he didn’t like that people came onto his server and then said he couldn’t have something. and that’s one of his primary points in his conversation with skeppy: the analogy he uses of someone coming into his house and saying he can’t have a table.

and later, in the vault, this is the reason he gives for wanting control: that it is his server. he tells tommy it isn’t supposed to be fair, it doesn’t need to be fair, because fairness implies equality, and he doesn’t see everyone else as having equal claim to the server. so that’s what i mean when i say the signs were always there: his statements match upand paint a path through the story. true, you don’t just “become” a bad person. there’s no reason for him to suddenly get all weird and want ultimate control, if he was completely neutral and peaceful in the beginning. this is why his character is decently written!

and since the potential was there in the first place, that’s what gave him the ability to or put him in danger of doing what he did.

so yeah, it’s true that his spiral was not only his fault, because even someone who thinks they own something is not going to just jump to the lengths that he did. he had other experiences, and saw how other people worked, and then was met by pushback from people when he wanted them all to do what he said. because his house analogy is lacking something: he owns the house, but everyone else lives there too.

it may be “his” server in that he pays upkeep fees, but that doesn’t mean he deserves control over everything that happens on it! if your roommate goes “i want this table and you can’t have it”, even if the house belongs to you, it’s kind of weird to go “no you can’t have it, it’s mine”. especially if all the roommate wants the table for is so they can play monopoly or something with their group. and even more so if the roommate will let you play monopoly if you want to (remember the embassy?), and if you can just buy a new table then what’s the point in getting upset over the one?

i just think you put a lot more of the responsibility on other characters. saying that all they did was villainize him and treat him as pure evil and break his boundaries is wrong because one, no, that’s not all they did, it’s exaggerated, and two, he was also doing things to them! it did not come out of nowhere! and clearly, his mindset didn’t come from nothing, so a personal flaw contributed to it! people who are innocent and care too much about others and are then mistreated do not do what dream did, and we know this because there is a character very similar to that: ranboo.

(i could talk about this for a super long time honestly. it’s very interesting how close they are, and since enderwalk ranboo is just ranboo with all his memories and he helped dream... there’s clearly something that happened that he’s forgotten that’s very important.)

hates conflict, tries to mediate things, cares about the people he loves to a fault. and we don’t see him running around and telling people they can’t build nations because it “divides people”! he has also been hurt and betrayed, but he still recognizes his responsibility to respect others and their agency. the difference between dream and ranboo is that one, dream has a spine, and two, dream thinks of the server as his. dream’s belief is one of the driving causes of his actions.

it’s true that nobody deserves to lose half their friends at once. it’s also true that before he declared war, nobody had any actual negative feelings towards him. they made fun of him for saying his side had more women. he made fun of them for having none. it was playful banter. that’s the thing about the hot dog stream: the tone is incredibly light. wilbur soot, known dramatic idiot, decided he was going to go play capitalism on a minecraft server. both tommy and wilbur at that point had been making various stupid attempts to gain “power”. and none of this was treated seriously, because others were doing the same kinds of things.

you know how many times tommy logged on and got involved in small petty conflicts? pretty much none of them are mentioned in canon again, because at this point, there wasn’t even much of a canon to get involved in. the smp at this point was a place for people to go and do bits. and invoking wilbur’s joke hatred of tommy and those like him seems a little unfair. wilbur’s main bit was calling tommy an annoying child. when wilbur was stealing the blaze rods, it was not an actual attempt to get power because it was not treated as such by anyone, it was treated with the exact seriousness that it deserved: sapnap and tubbo declared themselves the “police”.

what kind of actual control is going to come from taking blaze rods, especially on a server where you can just go get more? and it’s not like theft is really a crime on the server. everyone else chose to play into the bit.

it’s like now, when tommy shows up with a new idea and people who don’t like him start claiming that this is proof that he never learned anything and he was actually bad all along. the church prime thing, l’sandburg, any time he steals something or is rude to jack manifold. because although semi-lore is fun, sometimes people treat it as serious lore when parts of it are not intended to be and then use it to imply things about the characters that don’t line up with canon.

that’s kinda off topic and not really about dream, so i’ll move on

“i’d like to ask you to once again watch the actual stream.”

i mean, yeah. i did watch the stream. i don’t know a lot about george, and i prefaced my thoughts at the start by saying that. obviously attempting to catch up after isn’t as good as knowing the context and plot, (this sounds sarcastic but it is genuine i’m sorry sjhksjs) but i do want to offer this: it’s an opportunity to look at the plot in a different way. you say that you are on dream’s side in this scene, and while having that bias alone isn’t bad, i think it’s a good idea to attempt to see the other side. that’s what i’ve been doing while going back and forth with you; examining my own bias and attempting to look past it, and explain why it’s there.so dream kicks george off the throne. and you say that it’s not bad that dream does it, because george’s monarchy was already a figurehead. you know, i don’t see this as being any better? this means that when dream made george king, he already did it with the fact that george wasn’t really in charge in dream’s mind, meaning that dream was, you know, the ultimate authority. that is a power dynamic. dream has control over who is king of his faction.

when you watch the stream where dream makes george king originally, dream doesn’t really let him know that his power isn’t real. that’s the problem with this situation: the presence of a power dynamic alone is not the issue, it’s the fact that dream was misleading about its presence. dream just tells him “you’re king.” in fact, dream demonstrates more control over eret, by telling them just that they can’t be in charge anymore and george is king now. he tells them to take off their crown, to which they protest because it’s a layer on their skin and it would show their eyes, something they’re uncomfortable with. dream says “i need you to do it. you gotta do it. i mean, i’m not asking you, we have three of us here.”

they physically threaten eret. and by the way, the reason that dream thought eret had “betrayed” the greater smp? eret was attempting to help pogtopia and make things right with the people of l’manburg, something you claim was also dream’s wish during this time (he had switched over to manburg at this point). dream told eret that the king had a duty to remain neutral.

it is only then, when dream tells eret to remain neutral on things, that dream tells eret that the act of being king means nothing. this is where the “what makes you king” quote coms from, by the way. dream has the ultimate control over who is king. but whenever he makes someone king, he doesn’t tell them that. and when dream leaves, eret fully realizes this and admits that dream’s right: they don’t have any power. so what was the point of betraying l’manburg?

if there was no power with being king, why did george accept it? why was there even a king in the first place? the only reason eret agreed to betray l’manburg in the first place was because dream offered them power.

when dream confronts eret about remaining neutral, dream says “my plan is that there’s no manburg, there’s no l’manburg, there’s no pogtopia, there’s just dream smp and there’s dream smp everywhere. and that’s been my plan since the very beginning, i’ve never wavered on that. that’s why i had you betray them, and that’s why i gave you kingship, because i felt like you’d be a good king because you’re neutral.”

ignoring the fact that he’s twisting why he made eret king (they were on the side of l’manburg and he tempted them away), he also claims that his faction only has been his goal since the beginning. this will be important later.

cc!eret confirmed in a twitter thread on their alt that their character was possibly the longest victim of dream’s manipulation.

and finally, watching the stream where dream dethrones george, the thing sticking out to me is how dream is phrasing it. he says that george should step down because people are attacking him, and dream isn’t always going to be able to protect him. and then he says this.

“and i think you’ll just be targeted if you’re the king. and you want to be able to like, get revenge on tommy and stuff, right? so we can work together.”

i kind of wish he didn’t bring up tommy. i kind of wish his main goal at this time wasn’t just going after tommy because he thought tommy was the root of all the problems. and i think this kind of highlights a little bit that when dream built the walls around l’manburg again, it wasn’t just because he was “defending george” or anything, because i don’t think george really cared that much? dream was using the fact that it was george’s house that blew up in order to go after tommy.

after this line, the others all kind of gang up on dream, true. it’s partially for the joke, as evidenced by quackity’s “THE GIRLS ARE FIGHTING!”, but it’s also kind of them being, you know, legitimately angry at his character. and it’s funny that it’s sapnap who leads it. sapnap brings up what dream said, that he doesn’t care about anything except for the disks. dream says that he didn’t mean it, and then george says “then why did you say it?” so dream saying that clearly hurt them, and he can’t just push it off by saying he didn’t mean it once.

and in the end, george doesn’t even agree before dream makes eret king again! george and sapnap are trying to have a conversation with dream about how they feel they’ve been treated, and dream brushes it off with “maybe this isn’t a good time to bring it up,” before ultimately ignoring what they’re both saying because in his mind he has a good enough reason and it doesn’t matter what george thinks.

dream is in the act of passing power over to eret, and george says “i’m still king. i’m literally right here.” dream shushes him. dream also implies that the reason george is getting attacked is because he backs up everything dream says, reducing george down to an extension of his own will or calling him a follower. dream accuses sapnap of trying to divide him and george, and sapnap says this: “i’m not dividing anyone, i stand by george. he’s my king but most importantly he’s my friend.” dream replies that george is his friend but not his king.

i just sort of want to show you the other side here. george and sapnap weren’t just running around instigating conflict any more than dream was. and although george didn’t do anything as king, it meant something to him, because it was a symbol of the trust he thought dream had for him. dream saying he was taking it away for his own good meant he didn’t even trust george to protect himself. he was treating him like a child.

and then when george is silent, listening to everyone debate whether he deserves this or not, dream accuses him of only pretending to be sad. it’s true that he was pretending to cry, but i don’t think that warranted dream telling him he’s “acting like a baby” and that he was a bad king.

sapnap and george had a real point, and dream ignored them. he hadn’t addressed the things he had said that hurt them, and so they raised legitimate grievances with him! dream doesn’t treat their concerns as important, and talks down to george in particular.

ignoring the fact that sapnap and george were also hurting is kind of hypocritical. you’re right, “abandonment hurts you, no matter if the people have good reasons for it or not”. dream said the spirit thing before sapnap did any sort of real leaving him. and dream’s reasons were definitely not good.

i have no idea why you got the idea that george is so awful. he was walking around with his head down. the only one also calling him things like manipulative and a drama queen is, well, dream.

basically: (/hj)

george: :(

dream: you are attempting to emotionally manipulate me

butternut is a master of psychological manipulation

anyway

so sapnap, george and quackity felt betrayed there. they left, and went to mexican l’manburg to try and console george. and then dream shoots quackity and kills him, and tries to attack the others as well. it’s worth noting that quackity also had a reason to be upset at dream: dream’s treatment of l’manburg. dream then shows up and calls george a tyrant. dream never listens to what george says during this, he just continues saying what he already said. dream taking the kingship away from george hurt him more than letting him stay would have.

watching this is painful, because it’s making me realize just how much dream doesn’t actually care what his friends think! he says he cares, and he might think he cares, but then he calls them babies and liars and tyrants. his argument with george here reads like something awful. he’s using the excuse of “caring about him” in order to undermine and insult him, and take the moral high ground. dream essentially tells george that he didn’t make george king out of any respect for him, it was just random. he doesn’t treat his friends well during this scene. i don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to get angry.

when quackity, after sitting in silence for the entire conversation, says he disagrees, dream tells him that he’s just dumb. doesn’t wait to hear his reasons, doesn’t value his opinion, because dream is so sure that he’s right and he knows what’s best for the server, and by extension, everyone.

other interesting things: dream brings tommy into it again by saying he’s what causes all the problems on the server. dream tells quackity to think about what tubbo would think about him picking this fight. dream says that george would probably do anything he told him to do. his entire position is “you guys can think whatever you want, but it won’t change anything.” genuinely, tell me how this is them abandoning him? and when they do drift away later, tell me why they don’t have a reason to? dream doesn’t respect them! he takes their friendship for granted!

“would you consider it justified for all of tommy’s friends (even tubbo who he’s been close with for so long) to abandon him just because he’s said basically the same thing about the discs - like three times?”

thank you for bringing up the disk thing. do you really think that tommy and dream acted the same when saying that an item held more worth than their friends?

think about what the disks symbolize. control over tommy. tommy wants them back because they are a sign of dream having power over him! tommy doesn’t want his abuser having power over him! and yeah! it was a messed up thing for him to say to tubbo that the disks were worth more than him, but he apologized! he understood that what he said hurt tubbo, and he tried to rebuild the relationship! tommy took responsibility for what he said, and tried to be better. notice how afterwards, he was willing to sacrifice anything for the safety of his friends? notice how in the vault he told dream to take the disks and do whatever he wanted with them, when dream switched from threatening the disks to threatening the life of tubbo?

and what do the disks mean to dream? they mean power over tommy. the disks have no power over dream. they are a tool that he can use to hurt and control tommy. and he never apologized for this, because he wasn’t sorry. sapnap told dream that this hurt him, and all dream said was that he didn’t mean it. who is he lying to, then? tommy or sapnap? it was so important to dream that he had ultimate control over the life of someone else that he almost drove them to take their own life. i’m sorry, but this comparison sucks.

people gave dream a chance. people gave him a lot of chances. the disregard he showed for others is disgusting, especially towards his friends, and even more so towards those who he didn’t like. my problem is that though you repeat that you don’t “blame” others for what they did, you still hold them to more responsibility than you’re willing to hold him to, or at least that’s what it seems like. i’ve been investigating the other side through this whole process. and yeah, there are definitely places where i was wrong. but sometimes i do not understand, and maybe that means i should just give up on trying to understand those places. if other people can see things i can’t, maybe we agree to disagree.

i legitimately cannot see dream being the person who was treated the worst here, but let me know if i’m misrepresenting you.

i’m sorry that i sound angry, and i’m not really upset at you, but the comparison of what dream said and what tommy said set me off.

“no one having respect for him as a person”

people did respect dream, man. he was the leader of his faction. he had a lot of power. his friends trusted him to be a good friend to them. but he didn’t feel like he had an obligation to do that, yeah? and you only get respect if you give it, so they stopped respecting them because he hurt them. he didn’t learn any hard lessons about violence being the only way because he never stopped to consider another way. when faced with a problem, his options were for the problem to go away or he would make it go away: surrender or die.

during the stream where he sets up the walls with sapnap, his message is the same throughout: wipe them out. no mercy. burn their land to the ground, leave no survivors. there’s no love in war. children get hurt in war. this is a warning shot, he says, as he fires into their land. as sapnap burns down tubbo’s house and chat spams “no mercy”. they don’t show mercy because mercy is weak, and they are powerful.

one day i’m gonna write a thing that talks about the greater smp like how people talk about early l’manburg because oh boy

i’d like to see evidence of dream learning that violence is the only way, and only being able to protect himself through fighting. i don’t remember this happening, i remember him generally choosing violence as the first option.

“dream didn’t have an arising god complex.”

a god complex means more than just saying “i’m a god.” there was buildup because that’s how characters work. tommy was also trapped in the prison, and he didn’t suddenly get a god complex at the slightest bit of power, did he? the definition of a god complex is “an unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility.” dream cannot admit when he is wrong. he feels as if he has a right to the control of the server, and that grows into a state of obsession. and when he’s taking tubbo and tommy down into the vault, he mocks them for thinking he was weak or that he didn’t think ahead.

once dream knew he had control over death, the complex reached its peak, and that’s when he actually admits it. characters that antagonize others already possess traits that contribute to their arc.

and hey, i know that cc!dream says his character is blocked off emotionally. i also know that he’s been given a lot of chances to apologize to people, to be sorry, to admit fault, even in small situations. did dream show remorse during exile? did dream sound like he was being “forced” to isolate and control tommy, or did he sound like an abusive parent scolding a kid for something? when dream beat tommy and tubbo and took them down to the vault, did he sound sorry? the thing about subtext is that it has to actually be there, no matter how quiet, at least a little bit. listen to dream arguing with quackity after george was dethroned and tell me he sees himself as anything other than right.

a few one off lines are not enough evidence to wipe out the rest of his character’s development.

he sounds sorry once he is faced with direct consequences, because that is the only time he is held responsible for his actions.

it’s also a weak argument to say that something is happening when, as you said, we don’t see his pov. it is fair to say that i don’t know if it’s not happening, and that’s a good point. cc!dream’s comments about his character being closed off emotionally can mean a lot of things. for instance, they could mean that his character is willing to do this to himself in order to get control. or it could mean something else entirely, i don’t know. basing an entire fact about a character off something we don’t see at all doesn’t tell us anything useful about the character, and i apologize for doing that.

i guess my reason for saying that was that i don’t see evidence of him trying to get better during pogtopia. if we don’t see signs of him being sorry or attempting to treat other people better, why should we assume that he was doing those things?

“yes, and none of c!dream’s “friends” ever did.”

dream’s friends supported him until he abandoned them and disrespected them. his time in the prison is a consequence of his time out of the prison, albeit an unfair one.

“dream didn’t hurt george.”

dream’s disrespect of george is what hurt him. dream didn’t apologize for it, he didn’t attempt to understand what george was feeling, and he didn’t look for a compromise. and yeah, it was beckerson in the vault. he had a space for mars, he just hadn’t collected it yet. so yes, dream did betray sapnap. if you have legitimate evidence of sapnap doing something that made dream actually upset, before the vault, i’d like to see it. (there might be something lol i’m sorry i’m Very Bad on his lore but from what i’ve investigated i didn’t find anything really important.)

i don’t think puffy saying “this person does bad things” is her dismissing their trauma. and the eggpire and her have both hurt each other. puffy isn’t the Trauma Designator of the server. if there’s an instance of her straight up saying that someone doesn’t have trauma then i missed it.

“she’s another one c!dream was attached to and who failed to ever reach out to him”

i don’t see evidence of this? there was the one stream where the relationship was established, but after that he never tried to seek her out. he doesn’t even talk about her. it’s not a failure from her to not reach out to him, if their connection is light at best. i honestly feel like she was more attached to him than he was to her.

“like she’s doing something extra by being a decent person.”

she’s saying he didn’t deserve to see her because he did bad things! she still cares about someone who has done bad things, but she recognizes that those things are bad. she’s saying the punishment for what he’s done should involve not seeing her, personally, and i think she should be able to make that decision? she doesn’t endorse the rest of his punishment, because she doesn’t know what it entails.

she helped him by thinking he was in the right. she helped him by even trying to understand him, when everyone else could not. she gave him the help that she could by being on his side, by being friendly to him, and after she realized he was wrong she could not do that because he was off preparing the vault! and she had other things to worry about! “could have” is useless because it can mean anything! tommy “could have” not burned george’s house down. would it have mattered, when dream already had it out for him? no!

dream took anyone being close to him for granted. he did not give anything back to them once he started going down the path. if he did something bad to them, and they were angry, that was it for him. he did not attempt to fix the bond, like other characters do when they hurt someone they care about.

“i never said anything negative about them other than describing things they did that had a negative effect.”

here’s my main point: we don’t know they had a negative effect.

you criticize the characters for not taking an action that we do not know the implications of. everyone could have been super nice and worried about dream and that could have changed nothing. that’s why i think the criticism is unwarranted.

their crime is inattention to a situation that some of them did not even know was happening. that’s like saying that techno is “responsible” for some of the pain of tommy’s exile, because he did nothing to stop it. that’s like saying that quackity or tommy “should have” removed the tnt from the button room under l’manburg.

i just don’t get the point of the criticism. because it can apply to any character in any situation, you know? we could say that eret taking back the kingship from george enabled dream into taking more control over his friends, and that eret should have stopped him. we could say that skeppy telling dream he was wrong about l’manburg pushed him further into the role of the bad guy. if you aren’t being negative about the characters, then why bring it up in the first place?

“truly believe they did all those things” they didn’t do anything. if you’re talking about the “actual consequences and effect it had on him as a character”, you have to look at what affects his character.

we can say “sapnap should not have said this to dream”. because that is something sapnap actually did, directly to dream’s face, and it is something that visibly affected dream. considering the conditions of the prison, it is an inhumane thing to say. that’s something i would call reasonable to consider when analyzing dream’s character.

but puffy talking to herself, writing her own thoughts and reactions down? that does not impact dream in any way! and i think puffy thinking internally that dream is a bad person (when she has been given adequate reason to think so) has a lot less impact on Real Plot Events than the stuff that dream actually did.

what is her “fault” here? what harm did she do? what am i excusing? what did she do wrong, and how is the effect of her specifically visible in dream’s actions? he hasn’t mentioned her in months, and it’s my perspective that if he cared, we would know.

if a tree falls in the forest when nobody is around, does it make any noise?

(the person i was responding to linked a thread about how the prison isn’t helping dream and how puffy and sapnap saying he deserves it is inhumane)

that thread doesn’t actually seem to be assigning any fault to puffy, it’s just saying that hearing that kind of thing hurts.

(also, the person who wrote the thread saying “i told you so” is going to have nobody to tell it to. we all already know dream is going to be violent when he gets out, because he told tommy he would hunt down and take revenge on the things he loves. but he’s not going to be violent because puffy didn’t visit him.)

“another person he cared about who didn’t prove to care about him enough to stop him from spiralling or try help at all.”

how did puffy not care about him? what did she do before the vault that showed that? how did she specifically abandon him, by actions of her own will and not of consequences of his? for supposedly caring about her, dream did pretty much nothing to show it.

“if “they don’t owe him anything” is your base argument against someone being hurt via being left by people they care about over and over again until they’re utterly alone with no support system and unhealthy mindsets, we might have to agree to disagree”

we would disagree if that was my point, but it’s not. because that’s not what the characters did. they didn’t all abandon him, as i’ve said. he says that he cut ties with them, but if you say he’s lying when he says that you can disregard it, i guess. and five to six people are definitely not responsible for him. again, you’re critical of them for an action they didn’t take, and in some cases it was impossible for them to take like with tommy, who certainly didn’t abandon him, as hard as he tried to.

“his (dream’s) manipulation is the clumsiest thing i’ve ever seen”

i mean i don’t really find it funny that dream was “bad” at manipulation. and clearly it was powerful enough to work on multiple people, and if he was that ineffective at it it wouldn’t have worked. but i understand what you’re saying, although i disagree with your take on wilbur.

it’s true that wilbur’s smart, but this is again saying things about stuff we can’t prove. if you look at the context of wilbur’s actions next to everyone else’s, they seem pretty tame. and he can play a morally grey character without the intent being that the character was seriously manipulative all along. although i guess it’s nice to think that you’ve solved the code, if “solving the code” means “the majority of everyone else is wrong” then you may want to take a step back.

i think the principle of occam’s razor sort of applies here, and especially applies later to the conversion between dream and wilbur. unless there is strong, strong evidence for a theory that sort of goes against stuff, there may be a better explanation. i’ve scrapped like fifty theories because of this dude hskhdksjsthe things i said at the start about tommy and wilbur’s grabs for power not being serious still do apply, and so does the fact that at the start of the roleplay, the cc’s didn’t see their characters as that separate from themselves. i think it would be kind of weird for cc!wilbur’s intent to be genuine manipulation of his actual friends all along, especially when he wasn’t playing it as a bit.

“that’s precisely what he did and how he got them to side with him in the war.”

nope. he didn’t tell anyone they “needed” to to anything. anyone who joined the country joined of their own free will, and nobody joined during the war, just before and after.

wilbur didn’t really “recruit” tommy so much as they were on a team of causing small arguments. wilbur joined and he and tommy went to go scam people together, while tommy told him about the various other little schemes he had been running. and i don’t really think he was intending to do a real takeover, which is why i called it “weak”. the man told people that potions give you diarrhea. does that sound like the work of a mastermind? no, because it’s the self proclaimed “crime boy”. and that “drug empire” got shut down pretty quick for something that was supposed to last a long time.

“just put “revolution” instead of “business” as a guise of what he was actually doing.”

l’manburg was not the drug empire under a different name. l’manburg was about separation from the greater smp, admittedly because they felt that being stopped from selling drugs was a bad thing, but then they pretty much completely dropped the drugs and the empire throughout the wall vod.

so when he was recruiting people like fundy, he was doing it with the intent of getting them to make drugs with him. he says nothing about dream when fundy joins his drug empire. and yeah, he lied to him originally, but it didn’t work. fundy visited the van and saw through wilbur (and tommy)’s story, and then he decided to join, on his own. because he wanted to make drugs.

a quote from the wall vod:

“we’re starting a revolution, not a war.”

there was no targeted hatred towards dream until he approached them. and i would say the most “evidence” that wilbur was trying to go after dream in any way is the infamous “what’s tyrannical mean” moment. the thing about that moment is that taking a single moment and using it to define an entire period is unfair. it’s not like that’s a turning point, and after that they solely go after dream. they don’t. i agree that you have to watch the actions of wilbur, and his actions at the time were geared towards becoming independent and progressing the condition of l’manburg.

wilbur is honest with eret when they join that they are committing crimes. eret joins because “haha americans bad”. meanwhile, dream is in chat telling eret that there are “three defectors from the kingdom”.

“the only reason people disbelieve this is not because it doesn’t align with canon, but because they assume he’s lying for the sole reason that it doesn’t align with the way they see canon.”

if what revivedbur said agreed with canon, people wouldn’t be pointing out that it doesn’t. watch back the hot dog stream, the wall stream, the first war stream, even the stream after that when niki joins. look at how wilbur speaks, and also look at how he acts. it does not match up with all of what revivedbur says.

early wilbur is naive. he thinks he’s doing the right thing, so he therefore concludes the people against him are wrong. the only fighting back that l’manburg does before war is declared is killing alyssa (and this was tommy’s idea, wilbur was discouraging killing her), because they thought she set the fire. once she told them she didn’t, they gave her back the stuff they thought they had. tubbo still had her pickaxe, but didn’t realize. and for this? the people of the greater smp hunted him down, trapped him in a box, and killed him as well as killing tommy, who tried to save tubbo.

wilbur scolded tommy for killing alyssa. wilbur wanted to focus on building the nation, on declaring independence, and actively ignored the other side. he writes the declaration and he believes in everything it stands for! half the things in there are things that the other people of l’manburg yelled out, that he wrote in as they were being fired on by the greater smp. it comes from all the people.

the declaration of war from the greater smp pretty much says “sometimes you just gotta kill some people, you know?”

i am not disagreeing with you that after the first war, wilbur fell into corruption. it’s implied greatly that this is partially a consequence of the first war, and also partially stems from his fierce protectiveness of l’manburg.

also, if you’re saying that you have never and will never believe wilbur, i would urge you to re-examine that. it’s hard to avoid bias when you refuse to take most things that someone says as truth. i am also curious how you came to this conclusion as you began to watch the smp (if you never believed him at all) and who’s perspective you were watching.

“according to his actions and all known laws of logic” according to the streams and vods that very much still exist, and his actions in them, no, he wasn’t lying since the beginning. did he tell lies? yes, everyone did. was he being untruthful about his devotion to l’manburg when he took arrows for it and died for it? no. it’s pretty clear to see when you watch the vod. his actions speak louder than his words.

so no, it doesn’t make sense for him to be lying since the beginning. it doesn’t make sense that revivedbur’s ideals are a switch from how he was even right before he died, so we cannot trust his memory and his morals to remain intact! the man was alone for thirteen years, speaking of torture.

“he thought l'manberg his and no one else’s, a weapon of power for him to use however he pleases. unlike dream who destroyed himself bit by bit trying to take back what he cares about, because it was not power, but people - wilbur saw no more worth in it and destroyed it instead.”

hmm. i’ll come back to this later.

a point- not everything cc!wilbur says about his character is negative.

a lot of his commentary on his character came after his death, so it encompasses his spiral. i will again suggest that you listen to “eight” by sleeping at last. it’s true he can play a morally complex character, because he does, but he does not play an intentional antagonist the entire time, even in “secret”.

“i was just talking about how hypocritical and downright ridiculous his later accusations are, which you didn’t address.”

how are his later accusations hypocritical? wilbur calls him a tyrant in the moment, yeah. wilbur thinks that he should be able to do whatever he wants, and since it’s the dream smp, he assumes dream is the leader. dream never contradicts this, by the way. wilbur writes in the declaration of independence that “in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one to dissolve the bonds which bind us. disregarding of this truth is nothing short of tyranny.” so that’s what he considers tyranny. when he got stopped from selling drugs and tommy got arrested, he didn’t yell “tyranny”.

mistreatment of citizens by authority and denial of independence is tyranny.

dream and the people of the greater smp hurt and attack the people of l’manburg throughout the wall stream. importantly, since they denied l’manburg independence, the people they were firing and attacking were their own citizens in their eyes. mistreatment of citizens is cruel. upon hearing that l’manburg existed, they became even more tyrannical. thus when wilbur writes this in the book, as they are being fired on, he believes this to be true because it is.

“despite there being no evidence” watch the wall vod. think about the definition of tyranny, and even the different definitions of tyranny.

“a capitalistic empire on dream’s land” so wilbur did have reason for thinking dream was the leader, yes? because it was his land? his “house”? how dream said they were taking back the land that was rightfully theirs? how he called them “traitors to the kingdom”? ignoring the fact that once again, wilbur did not say anything negative towards dream until dream showed up and insulted l’manburg.

wilbur’s form of lying and deception for the drug empire was the norm for the server at the time. we don’t see him pulling this sort of exaggerated bit once he gets into l’manburg, because he’s idealistic and he really believes in it. if you watch tommy’s stream where wilbur first proposes the country, he jokingly says the reason he’s making it is because “americans ruin bits”. also during that stream, tommy asks if they’re making a drug empire, and wilbur says that no, they’re making a nation where drugs are legal.

“didn’t even do that much” hmm. no, i’m pretty sure dream and the people of the greater smp did do the stuff wilbur accused them of. one, he wasn’t directly accusing dream, (because. his problem wasn’t with dream specifically.) and two, the things he said in the declaration did happen?

“they have robbed us.”

to be fair everyone on the server did that lol

“imprisoned us.”

tommy was imprisoned for the drugs and for other things he was involved in, and tubbo was trapped and murdered for a thing he didn’t even know he had.

“threatened us.”

they were fired on multiple times when building l’manburg, they were threatened with consequences for the drug stuff, they told them in pretty clear terms that they were prepared to kill them instead of letting them be independent. the day of the war, dream and sapnap burned down all the trees around l’manburg and lavacast walls around it, saying it was a “warning”.

“killed many of our men.”

again, true. tommy and tubbo in particular died a lot during this time.

so since these things really did happen, how is wilbur lying about them?

“the people he was accusing of being tyrannical were very selective”

one, he accused sapnap of being an american, and it was the americans that were going for them. you don’t need to protect people that aren’t being hurt. most of his reasoning for “no americans” during this time was that anti-mask protests were happening in america, and he was making fun of them. two, the others imprisoned tommy, which does not count as “self defense in an anarchist society”. they accepted tubbo because he was european, and because he was willing to work for the nation like the rest of them. sapnap just wanted a drug dealer.

“dream’s “no factions” thing he had going on also included no government by default, showcased by him having problems with people starting countries.”

if there was no government, why did dream never point this out when wilbur said he was seceding? the server is dream’s faction! he doesn’t want “no factions”, he wants only his faction. dream refers to the server multiple times as a nation, and even a kingdom. anarchist societies don’t have prisons. the prison and the police is a system. if you have an anarchist society, but two specific people are going around arresting people, them going “oh but there’s no government” doesn’t take away the fact that they’re creating a hierarchy, using their own power? they also never claimed that there was no government.

everything that dream said later in the conversation with skeppy also lines up with this. ignoring the fact that there was a monarchy established because it “didn’t have any real power” is disregarding the fact that one, it was there, and two, that there was someone around with enough power to establish it in the first place. i don’t know how to say this any clearer. anarchist places do not have kings.

and anarchy is not the only thing that fits. it wasn’t designed to be a geopolitical drama, they just made the mistake of letting wilbur soot onto the server. so they didn’t need to have a name for the system, because the system was “do whatever you want”, including establishing authority.

“dream had all the reasons to believe they were aggressive and was fully justified in declaring war.”

dream didn’t declare war because alyssa was attacked. he had done stuff to them before that happened, and they got back all of her stuff (again, not by asking and trying to work it out, but by kidnapping someone who genuinely believed they were innocent and killing them as they begged for help.) dream started the official conflict because he declared war. he also started the unofficial conflict. he didn’t think they were aggressive, he thought they were weak.

“if he (wilbur) thought he was being mistreated he could just stop trying to mistreat others”

what, because he had any sort of power? he did stop mistreating others. l’manburg legitimately did nothing to intentionally hurt anyone, and tommy killing alyssa doesn’t count because that was his decision and revenge was already paid out for that. so wilbur stopped scamming people, built the walls to contain his country (he said that they needed nothing outside the walls at some point) and then was attacked multiple times. his mistreatment didn’t stop.

“it was supposed to be his l'manberg.”

wilbur didn’t destroy it because it was supposed to be his and it got away from him, that’s why he held the election: to try and restore peace through attempting to rig the election. he destroyed it because “the thing i built this nation for doesn’t exist anymore”, meaning the freedom it originally granted to its citizens was gone under schlatt. meaning the policy of no violence and using words was ruined. if the thing he built this nation for was power, this would make no sense. he could have taken power so easily. he passed off the presidency.

“something worth having power over” is something important. it is something that can be good for lots of people, and the power over it is what makes it safe. it’s worth having power over because when others, like schlatt, take that power, it is no longer safe.

violence and tyranny had become so much a part of l’manburg that wilbur felt the freedom and peace was gone. so when he blows it up, and says “my l’manburg”, he means it can no longer be used for evil. “my unfinished symphony, forever unfinished”. he saves it for himself by destroying it. so yes, he is being selfish, but not to ruin it for other people. he takes it into his own hands to weed out the fighting, and by doing so takes himself with it. his vision was never complete, because the wars had taught him that the only true freedom, the only true victory (“i won.”) for him was in death. (and then that turned out to be wrong.)

there’s a reddit post that cc!wilbur approved

that explains this a little better than i can, and cc!wilbur commented on it “any truers???” so i think it can be counted as reliable.

this full quote from cc!wilbur about his character (from his hey and stuff podcast) is very interesting. i’ll transcribe it here:

“i decided i was going to make a breaking bad style roleplay, where me and tommy would be drug dealers. and uh, one thing lead to another and i’m the president of a nation losing it due to my own insolence and uh, short sighted naivety. basically disregard for my fellow citizens who i claim to love so much. and a, and a dark, twisted understanding of what is possession. and what is, what is my right.”

i like this quote a lot because it highlights the initial traits that caused his spiral. it also places him as kind of similar to dream. the reason he lost the presidency is that he got too cocky. and the reason his spiral was so selfish is that it was all he could see— when his earlier vision of freedom was shattered by the first war, he didn’t know how to adapt and so became attached to power as it now felt like the only way to keep what mattered to him.

this is emphasized in his conversation with quackity during his second lore stream: that there was a drastic change between the person who made l’manburg and the person running for president. this quote matches up very well with the election arc. wilbur’s motives were different before the election, and they were different after.

once he had the freedom that he wanted, he became scared of losing it and that is what pushed him down. “if i can’t have it, no one can” is on the surface about the power, but the lament for what he once had (freedom in a country without tyranny) is there. that’s why he became so power-oriented. if he did not have control of l’manburg, it could be used to go against his original vision and it would be better off gone.

another good piece of information is cc!wilbur’s comment on his dnd alignment post, where he says this:

“wilbur is on the border of chaotic and neutral evil. wilbur, in his chaotic sense, is a crazy man who wants to blow up his old nation and kill his friends. but, more realistically, in his neutral sense, wilbur is the archetype of a man who had great power and who lost it all due to his own poor choices and negligence who sees destruction as his ratification.”

note the “realistically”.

he feels as if he owes it to l’manburg at the end to blow it up, and he didn’t mind taking himself with it as he thought that nobody cared about him anymore and he didn’t have any more to give.

(related to this, in the dnd alignment post, cc!wilbur places season 1 dream as chaotic evil and says his only motive is chaos. firstly, this would only apply to season one, and although cc!wilbur was working with cc!dream and everyone else to write the plot here, i wonder why he says this instead of saying anything else about dream’s motives. this seems to disagree pretty severely with what you think, but it also disagrees with what even i think about dream during this time.)

revivedbur comes back and has plans because he regrets his past. he hates that he gave up that easily. and he could absolutely lie about his past actions! there is no reason to ignore the contents of an entire war because someone who was alone for thirteen years says it!

“shouldn’t have it” doesn’t mean he was lying when he said he wanted it. he was just wrong, which he knew when he blew up l’manburg and that’s part of why he did it.

“they said they “fought with words”, like that doesn’t sound like a peaceful solution, more like a different approach, and it was because that is what they did”

they said the words thing a lot of times, and most of the time it was used as a “tommy don’t attack that person.” and “fighting with words” is arguing, it is replacing the trauma of real battle with talking it out. l’manburg did stick very closely to their motto of words over violence. look at the contents of the first war.

and once war was declared, wilbur was enthusiastic for it. sounds suspicious from someone claiming to not want war, right? he said it was a chance for them to prove themselves, to prove they could rule themselves. he also said that if they could defend themselves it would be proof. he never went “time to attack them”, and when he said he didn’t want a war in the past he meant that he didn’t want to start one. his being enthusiastic about the war ties into his naivety about running a country. it was also an acceptance in a way, no? it meant that the greater smp saw them as something worth declaring war on.

and it’s heartbreaking seeing him so excited to prove himself, because we know that the experience of the war is what lead to his spiral and his cynicism as president. we know that a few weeks later, he’s going to be crying into his pillow every night.

for the clip (the “something worth having power over and then you get killed by your dad” clip), i kind of don’t know what to say. i don’t think this is a clear condemnation of the entirety of l’manburg’s beginnings, but i do think that i was probably reaching a bit with trying to interpret it. there are definitely a lot of ways to see that, though.

no, he showed it in the first war and he clearly said it. i don’t think somebody who wants to mess with dream is going to not even think about him until he shows up, and even after then largely ignore him until he declares war.

“yes, it was worth something to wilbur, and that worth was power.”

question: power over what? power for what purpose? how did he use that power?

if it was only worth having power over, then why did he give it up? why didn’t he just kill schlatt in the first place? again i think the reddit post addresses a lot of this. original l’manburg was worth more to wilbur than power because he was willing to surrender when his life and his friend’s lives were threatened, and he told tommy it was not worth it to enter a duel and sacrifice his own life for it. after the war, he cared about power over it in order to keep peace, and then he realized that his own desire for power caused him to abandon his morals and he attempted to destroy it all.

“the greater smp did represent anarchy and peace.”

i just don’t think the ideals of the early smp line up with anarchy, and especially not dream’s actions later. he believes in forced peace, and unity under his terms although that belief is more gradual.

“see you tell me you didn’t fall for propaganda and then say this.”

it’s not “falling for propaganda” to watch the streams and interpret them. “propaganda” is defined as an attempt to spread information, often of a misleading nature. it’s what wilbur used during his presidential campaign, it’s what everyone used during the election. i do not base my opinion of his character off things that have been said about him after the fact. i watched the content when it happened.

so what about the facts that one, he wanted peace at the start, and two, that he cared about protecting his nation and the people he cared about is propaganda? it is information that i believe to be true based on my own analyzing of his actions during that time.

wilbur never says this as an attempt to lie to anyone. he wanted peace if it meant he could have freedom, but he would not attack anyone for freedom, he would defend it once he had established it. he wasn’t trying to establish an empire after the drug van stream (he says this in the vod where he discusses his plans for l’manburg with tommy) and the actions of the greater smp were tyrannical. what happened is that later, after the first war, he lost faith in peace because people continued to attack him!

“he did create division for his own benefit the way i see it.”

can you explain the “benefit” that division would give him? because like i said, his goal was his own personal freedom. he wasn’t attempting to divide people, he was reacting to mistreatment, whether perceived or real. and more often than not, people asked to join him, he didn’t try to convince them.

“yeah wilbur said it genuinely to tubbo when he first brought him armor”

as i was going through the old vods, i did find the origin of that quote (the quote where wilbur says “we go in with no armor and then stab them in the back” or something along those lines)! there’s something funny about it though. notice how he says it and then never does anything about it? and how nobody from l’manburg acts on it? because you have to look at his actions, something you emphasized that i agree with. they have more weight than his words. he also said “wanna kiss” to dream, so i don’t think this really counts as “proof” of an ulterior motive, because he said a lot of things.

“you see a pattern already?”

the “pattern” i see of his reactions to conflict in his nation is that he didn’t want to assert control in order to oppress people, he wanted to assert control to keep the peace, by rigging the election so that he had “legitimate” authority. was it a hypocritical? yeah! it reminds me of what dream was doing, too: placing his goal of peace over his wish for freedom of everyone.

the difference is that dream didn’t have any reserves about “starting an army and asserting dominance over his own people because they didn’t respect his authority and he was irritated by it”. weird that that can be used to describe dream as well, huh? and before it can be used to describe wilbur?

this is also after the first war, where wilbur learned a very important lesson! and it’s right before he realizes he’d become what he had tried to destroy. the other person who acts like this never realized this, though. it’s because he was never trying to destroy it. just saying.

“the friendships inside of it could’ve existed without, and would’ve probably been better off without being stained by war”

wilbur did not consider making l’manburg as a severing of relationships between the two nations. he even expresses neutrality towards some members of the greater smp. wilbur didn’t “make people think” they needed l’manburg, he saw it as a thing to devote yourself to, an ideology. he did not force others to think this way, although he encouraged it. people ended up sacrificing a lot for that (against their will sometimes), and so they became attached to it.

“the original dream smp was this but actually true instead of just being a front.”

ah yes, the dream smp with absolutely no hierarchies. nothing like mister “my house” at all. no “my land”, no “my server”, no “the king has no power”, no “it’s the dream smp”. /s

“wilbur didn’t fear for anyone’s safety”

hmm, no, wilbur did fear for everyone’s safety. you know, when they were being attacked continuously throughout the war? and when he finally surrendered because they were being threatened and killed?

“the dream smp was already safe”

dream and sapnap need better ways to “keep the server safe” than by blowing up people who wanted to go off and do their own thing and posed no threat to the greater server.

i don’t know how to provide “evidence” that dream and the others attacked l’manburg? the evidence is the fact that they did. again, wilbur’s initial goal was not conflict with the greater smp, it was emancipation. when tubbo was taken hostage and killed, shot at, robbed multiple times of materials it had taken him hours to get, and had his old house burned down simply because he was part of l’manburg, those were the reasons that tubbo ever fired a shot at them in the first place!

when wilbur lead his people out on the first day of the war, it was to negotiate. they dodged the arrows and went to the embassy, where they were then trapped and driven back into tommy’s house. it was then that they fought back. self defense. i don’t know what else to tell you.

“trying to end the war as soon as he could” is kind of misleading, because it implies that dream hated the violence. he just wanted to win as soon as he could. he didn’t care what he had to do to win it. no mercy.

the dream smp was not freedom because when you try to leave freedom, it doesn’t hunt you down and try to destroy you. anarchy doesn’t call you a traitor when you leave. and yeah, dream was real friendly to tommy when he continued the disk war when it first settled. and of course when your friends join a different nation, the most logical course of action is to murder them repeatedly! /s

the definition of anarchy includes personal freedom, the exact thing wilbur wanted. anarchy does not include authority, it is firmly opposed to it. i think i would place the early greater smp as more of a stateless society, if i had to put a name on it (again, i am extremely wary to do that because it wasn’t written as anything with a name. this is also a mediocre take that i don’t really believe because dream had his own faction.). a stateless society is one of the goals of anarchism, but does not encompass the entire belief.

dream’s main motivation was that he didn’t want anyone being independent. it didn’t matter who was leading it.

and i’m sorry, but you can’t just take away evidence by saying “he was lying” when there is no proof he is? if you take this conversation at face value it makes more sense! (this is about the conversation between wilbur and dream right before the “independence or death” scene)

“both sides had their losses and were ready to harm the other” what did the greater smp lose. its people? its land? there was other land, and the people could still remain friends. some of them did. dream even says before this that yeah, l’manburg is losing. and wilbur here is attempting to downplay that loss, claiming they’re on even ground because that’s what he wants to happen. he is trying to appear stronger than he really is. he’s bluffing, but it doesn’t work.

i don’t like saying “nobody’s the victim” here when one side was getting absolutely whaled on by the other. wilbur has the ability to be genuine, and he does. if he was trying to “play” the victim, he would exaggerate the damage his side had suffered. his words and his actions match up, and this is a pretty different circumstance from him doing a bit. he is a victim. that’s just straight up true.

i’m not surprised that you think this way, as you’ve said you were on dream’s side since the start, but i’d like to once again ask you to examine where you got these perceptions.

dream offering them “chances” was just offering them surrender. that’s not merciful, and it’s not fair, either. and he may not have wanted to hurt them, but he sure didn’t mind doing it. wilbur wasn’t sewing some kind of anti-dream propaganda in his nation while the battle was going on, the hatred for dream came from the fact that he was attacking all of them.

“colonize” is a bad word choice for what l’manburg was. nobody was living on that land before they got there. the land should have belonged to nobody, so why did dream get so mad about “his” land being taken? what about that specific area was so important to him, when he did have the ability to visit?

wilbur was pacifist, he was not the instigator, again i have to say i can’t offer up proof if you’re convinced that he was lying. when he fought back later it was in self defense. please watch the vods. and recognize that wilbur’s actions election era are consequences of his experiences revolution era.

i genuinely don’t understand what you mean by comparing this to exile. please rephrase your point. if you’re comparing what dream did to tommy to wilbur trying to stop dream from hurting him and his people more i have to say that’s a... questionable take. it’s probably a bad idea to make exile comparisons if you’re going to use them to victim-blame, as that’s very antithetical to exile as a whole and kid of ironic.

“i mean, what other choice was there?”

no, dream had a lot of choices. he did not offer them a peaceful way out. he declared war and then he attacked. it was then that he told them many times to surrender. and no, wilbur didn’t push them to go and die, evidenced again by the times he used himself as a distraction so that they could run, and that he didn’t want tommy to do the duel but ultimately respected his decision and his freedom.

“dream constantly asked them to give up instead of fighting.”

dream has a responsibility to not attack kids. dream also has a responsibility to attempt any sort of peaceful negotiation. tubbo was boxed and murdered before war was declared, and tubbo personally had done straight up nothing to the people of the greater smp, and he didn’t even know why he died until tommy saw that alyssa’s pickaxe was mixed in with his stuff.

if wilbur claimed to wish to prevent violence, and then he did, or at least attempted to, i don’t know why you think it’s untrue. calling someone a rude name is not equal to murder. “verbally violent” means pretty much nothing and was coming from both sides.

(this next part is about the “let me be your vassal” scene in pogtopia)

“there’s a theory wilbur legitimately thinks dream selfish”

i mean, yeah. i think that kind of sums it up. wilbur was appealing to dream’s personal goals. i don’t see how he was shut down though. he already helped pogtopia, so him being asked to further help someone from pogtopia shows that they trusted him enough to tell him the plan.

i’ve watched the clip a lot of times and i think that the meaning can be ambiguous. i am using dream’s other actions during that time to determine how much of an effect i think it had on him. i don’t think he got “shut down” in any sort of meaningful way here.

“he didn’t seem to hold even that against him as he tried to help get back l’manberg with him.”

if dream didn’t hold the disk thing against tommy then, he sure decided to get mad about it later (he brings it up when arguing with quackity), despite the fact that he had also re-opened the conflict in the past.

“i believe they (dream and tommy) had genuinely been friends once.”

sure, i think they were friends before dream did what he did with the disks, and allies during early pogtopia. dream still decided to switch sides and team with manburg because schlatt offered him the book. this is, ironically, dream abandoning tommy.

“he has a sense of responsibility (not control) over the people on his smp.”

i think it can be responsibility and control. most of the responsibility is misguided, and lots of it is just actual control. i don’t know where you’re getting a lot of this.

and i do not know where you got that his fatal flaw was caring too much? he “cares” in the way of having control! he doesn’t care about the well being of others as long as he thinks he’s right. i’m just saying that he sure could have walked away, because he did just that later when he sided with schlatt. it’s not a speculation about his character when it’s something that he did.

him walking away did not entail complete surrender to wilbur. there were a lot of other things he could have done, but i don’t want to get into “could have”’s as i don’t really think there’s a point. wilbur was attempting to convince him, yeah, but that didn’t mean it was true. we know that wilbur was lying about wanting ambition.

also, i don’t think dream was allied with pogtopia because he liked them or he was trying to be better or anything. he said in “tyrant” that it’s because schlatt was worse, and wilbur didn’t have any ambition to expand.

“maybe you misunderstood something i said, but no, he definitely didn’t.”

okay, so since dream didn’t think wilbur was a villain, wilbur was not “pressuring him” into becoming one by helping him. my point was that dream didn’t think that, and wilbur didn’t care. sorry for not making that clear, i was asking a rhetorical question.

(i said here that “someone calling someone else out for hurting them is not the same thing as villanizing them,” and they responded with this)

“yeah, they are. and dream was villanized.”

oh boy.

vilify: to utter slanderous and abusive statements against, to defame.

(i probably should have been saying vilify instead of villainize because they mean the same thing but i straight up did not know it was a word, sorry lol)

slanderous means false and malicious. abusive means offensive and insulting. defamation is things that are not true.

if somebody says, “this guy punched me.” that would not be vilifying them. it is a true statement with a neutral tone. if they add “he is a bad person”, that could possibly be seen as abusive, as it is insulting, but the point of vilifying someone is that you are making them out to be someone they’re not. it involves the use of lies and continuous exaggerated language. slanderous and abusive. abusive only is not enough to classify something as vilifying.

someone reacting to something dream did by calling him a name is not vilifying him. it is true that he did the thing, and it is also true that the person saying it believes it. it is rare that someone criticizes him without real reason or goes overboard (the person who really does this as far as i can remember is tommy), and when tommy does so it is almost always reciprocated. so we have dream and tommy constantly vilifying each other, and other people saying negative things about dream and sometimes vilifying him, if they lie about it. he sometimes vilifies them.

my point is that vilification is not wilbur telling niki, “dream burnt tubbo’s house down”, despite the fact that he calls dream a bad guy. it’s not slanderous because it is true. dream assisted sapnap with the act. vilification is not tommy explaining to ranboo what was happening during exile, or telling dream that dream makes him worse. “someone calling someone out for hurting them” implies truth, and it doesn’t necessarily imply abusive language, but it doesn’t matter because it’s true.

maybe we were going off different definitions of vilify. but when we’re accusing characters who are victims of abuse and manipulation, we need to be careful with what we accuse them of.

anyway

wilbur saying he wanted to use the tommys of the world was left in the drug van stream. tommy himself was pushing a lot of the “dream bad” stuff because he had more experience with him. when tommy was confused during those two scenes (vassal scene and revivedbur calling dream his hero)it was because he believed that wilbur respected him, and wilbur working with or idolizing someone who had hurt tommy in the past was a contradiction to that belief. wilbur does not question tommy’s anger during the vassal scene because he doesn’t care that dream is bad, and when he is revived he either does not believe it or does not want to acknowledge it. revivedbur cares a whole lot more about power for the sake of power than wilbur ever did.

again, tommy isn’t stupid. he has his own reasons for not liking dream, and the disconnect comes from a place of trusting wilbur.

by the way, wilbur left the vc before saying that tommy didn’t care. he was talking to himself (and chat). and he was more fearful that tommy was leaving than angry. plus, he didn’t actually force tommy to give up his house: there was miscommunication between them and the embassy was the power tower in the end. wilbur just wanted confirmation that tommy would spend time in l’manburg. it’s true that he went about it in a bad way, though.

he didn’t push patriotism onto them, they were also excited about the country. there were other scenes beside the tyrant scene, and the amount of times wilbur had to tell tommy to shut up about how great the country is is a lot higher than the one time he had them call dream a tyrant.

true, that scene (scene where wilbur asserts his authority as president) is before pogtopia. it’s also after the war for independence. i am not saying that wilbur should have said any of that stuff. i’m just pointing out that it wasn’t always like that.

also i do not really see “you’re never gonna be president” as a taunt or manipulation or anything. i think wilbur genuinely believed that having tommy in charge of the country would one, get them into more conflicts, and two, mess up tommy mentally. being the president sucked and wilbur knew that. wilbur was not kind to tommy. but a lot of stuff that’s pointed at as manipulative is pretty clearly wilbur’s own paranoia spilling over in a desire to protect tommy, ie saying that tubbo would betray them. wilbur genuinely thought that and he was trying to warn tommy.

“tommy, when i said you’d never be president, it wasn’t a challenge. it’s true. you’re never going to be president.”

tommy’s life has been hard, that’s true. not disagreeing with you there. but not every adult has been using him the whole time. and if you’re looking for fault, i would personally look at the guy who killed him three times first, just saying. other things had impacts but there’s a clear scale.

“tommy formed an attachment to them as a result of the disc war, not the other way around.”

so yeah, initially it was a shallow trade: the disks for the armor. once that conflict was resolved, and tommy apologized, that should have been the end of it, yeah? especially since tommy now had a stronger connection to the disks? that would have been nice.

the problem is that dream took them back for no reason. because he did, he went back and dug up tommy’s whole front yard and spawned months of conflict after. having “leverage” over someone like that is kinda messed up! it’s not like tommy was going around committing mass murder every tuesday, he got in scraps with other people on the server who also committed petty crimes. so i can’t really blame tommy for wanting them back, even though he stole them.

and if dream didn’t care about the disks, why did he later use it as “proof” that tommy caused all the trouble on the server? if they were so worthless to him that he gave them to skeppy, why did it matter that tommy stole them?

i don’t know what you mean about this being the only way dream could control people. the amount of genuine fear other characters felt when he logged on was there for a long time. he held a lot of power on the server, and a lot of his control was physical, evidenced by exile in particular but also the wars.

when he did ultimately use connections to control people, that was still a bad thing.

“his friend’s house got burnt down and he wanted the person who did it to be held accountable?”

okay, george’s house got burned down. do you remember the initial punishment that dream proposed? probation for tommy until he was eighteen. and when dream was arguing with his friends, he pointed out that the only reason l’manburg was being held hostage for tommy’s crime was that tommy was involved in the government. he said that if tommy hadn’t been involved in the government, he probably would have just hunted him down and killed him.

also, someone responding to this pointed out that dream was trying to frame tommy for things at the time. dream was intentionally creating other conflict in order to get to tommy. dream did not care about the house. he burnt down other people’s houses.

that’s not “holding someone accountable”. that’s not even close.

“he was taught this from experience”

the leather from the horse was used to blackmail him after he had already started doing that to people. you know how tommy mimicks him? that’s what was going on (still bad that he did it but like. come on.) so that may have been the push that caused dream to cut his own connections (so that nobody could ever do that to him again, and he would have no chance of failure), but it didn’t just happen to him for no reason: it was a behavior he taught someone else.

“he did genuinely think he was a villain before the war”

tommy called dream a lot of stuff before the war, and most of it was unprompted by wilbur. a lot of it was also, like you said, two friends joking around. just because wilbur taught him a new word (he didn’t really tell him what it meant though) doesn’t mean he was manipulated into using it all the time or something. and i’m pretty sure tommy got a decent definition of tyranny later, when the greater smp decided to attack l’manburg before anything went down.

“it’s just a character acknowledging what people who looked deeper into the narrative already knew.”

what i’m saying is that narratively, wilbur has an extremely good reason to be biased right now. taking anything he says as truth doesn’t solidify an interpretation as truth. there has to be enough evidence to actually back the entire thing up in the first place, and i’m just not seeing “wilbur was always going for power and division” as solidified by his actions during the first war.

and again, tommy’s not stupid, and the entire time tommy is yelling at him! tommy knows something is off! if people also in the story are saying “this isn’t right”, i feel like they’d know? tommy was also part of l’manburg, he has an opinion too. so when he says “we founded l’manburg because we knew dream was the bad guy”, he’s talking about why he did it. and he brings up a good point: “you say you did it to stick it to the man, but you’re idolizing dream, who is the man”. (paraphrased i don’t know his exact words but this was his point) this shows that wilbur’s motives have changed, even from what revivedbur will say.

(they linked three twitter threads here. i don’t know if relinking them here is a good idea as the whole point of this separate post is to disconnect the two sides, but the threads were by dr3amofagame on twitter, for reference purposes. i’m not going to link the independent threads but i think people can tell which ones i was responding to.

if this is wrong to say who made them please let me know, i do not know how Any of these websites work. if you’ve read this far, please don’t try to like,,, look up who any of these people are (especially the person i was debating with. don’t do that /srs) and send anything bad to them. that’s the whole point of this separate post. if anyone sends negativity directly towards people because of this post i’ll bite you)

that first analysis has some Opinions. oh man.

i don’t know man i’m just going to point some things out:

-the person who wrote the thread pulling the “child” card makes me laugh because tommy had committed more crimes than wilbur at that point. ah yes tommy innit innocent child being horribly dragged into a giant war by evil wilbur /s

-wilbur did not call dream a tyrant before dream showed up and made fun of their land

-wilbur did not legitimately think dream a tyrant when he told tommy and tubbo to call him that. neither, really, did tommy and tubbo. it was a joke. like infinite women. like dream saying “i’m evil” when he was blowing up creepers on their land before the battle. like dream and sapnap being all “down with the british”.

-their attitude on that changed when the greater smp begin exhibiting tyrannical behavior (before war was declared!).

-“having tommy and tubbo fight his battles and build his walls” is just untrue

-the l’manburg anthem was, one, not written by wilbur (he commissioned someone to do it on fiver), and two, was written after the first war. they sing it in the stream where niki joins. so yeah, at that point, they did emancipate from the brutality and tyranny of their rulers! it doesn’t say who the rulers are (therefore it’s. not blaming solely dream.) but pretty much all of them were brutal!

-also oh my god this thread has a lot of things that wilbur just straight up didn’t say (or do).

-“would rather die than submit to your tyrannical rule” is a quote from the speech wilbur gives before dream lights the tnt. dream had done stuff to them at that point. this is out of context.

-i don’t want to seriously critique this thread because a lot of it seems more like something emotional than an attempt to start conversation, and i can’t really go against that.

-the main argument, that dream did nothing before being irreversibly forced into the role of the villain does not really match up with what happened.

-there’s a lot less of people calling dream a villain than people seem to remember.

-and also, dream was lying about wanting l’manburg to be something. he says to eret a few days later the quote that i included a while back, that his goal has always been for there to be one faction: the dream smp. note that at this point he’s officially on manburg’s “side” now. he also says he has never wavered on this from the beginning. so he’s either continuing his manipulation of eret and lying to them, or he’s just saying that he wants l’manburg to be something to wilbur and tommy to try to get them to trust him. and hearing him yell “YES!” after the explosion? i’m inclined to think it’s the latter.

okay, so then looking at the second analysis:

-once again, calling wilbur a colonizer? there is a definition of that word that matches up with his actions, but that definition is something establishing itself in a place. by that definition, everyone on the server is a colonizer. so calling just wilbur that seems... a bit weird, considering that the common definition does not match up with what he did.

-“got his (wilbur’s) entire side killed” ignores the fact that it was Dream And His Friends Who Killed Them hghfnjgnfm

dream: wow wilbur you’re bad at this war thing

wilbur: please stop killing us

dream: how could you do this to your people

wilbur: you??? declared war???

dream: no you don’t understand. i had a really good reas—

sorry sorry i’m just. yeah

-also this thread reminded me that “tyrant” (the book) exists and yeah, i do see your point that dream did care about tommy (a little bit). i just wonder why he turned against him again? and why dream is willing to admit here that l’manburg was peaceful, and also that wilbur was not like schlatt in some key ways?

-and again i don’t see wilbur calling dream a villain during the vassal scene.

-some of this thread is just speculation. i’m not going to consider “wilbur may manipulate dream in the future because they had a conversation in the past”, especially because revivedbur’s mental state right now is godawful, because i don’t think it holds any value to examining the past. the important part is the breakdown of the vassal scene.

-i’ve already said what i think about the vassal scene. dream wasn’t getting tossed around during that. just because he’s quiet doesn’t mean he’s being manipulated? and wilbur isn’t going “you think this”, he’s asking dream what he thinks by paraphrasing what wilbur’s heard from him before, and adjusts it once dream corrects him. i do think this one is more open to interpretation though; this is just my opinion and it doesn’t have a lot of stuff to back it up lol but i’m not convinced either side has much evidence

and the third analysis:

-dream had no idea what kind of government they were setting up there. he didn’t ask, so he wouldn’t know if it was a dictatorship. and again he was allowed on the land, he just never built the embassy. the “no americans” rule was weakly enforced during the first war, and the reason wilbur got so serious about it later is that the americans were the ones who went after him and killed everyone during the war! so he had a reason to want them off. objectively a bad reason? maybe

-it would be cool if dream said “hey don’t do this here’s why” instead of stomping off during negotiations and then coming back to beat them up and declare war. he didn’t though

-the problem people have with greater smp vs. l’manburg is scale. the greater smp was quite literally infinite, and l’manburg was a small space. there wasn’t anything important in l’manburg that other server members needed to get to. people could still leave to visit their friends. they didn’t legitimately hate americans. but nooo, you can’t have the table because it’s my table. what if you do something bad with the table? remember when you tried to sell people “better air” for three dollars and then took someone’s air conditioning? you just want power! i’m going to go bring back rubber bands to pelt you with.

anywAys moving on

no, i do agree with you on the sam stuff. for some reason i was under the impression that cc!sam was uncomfortable with being depicted as torturing dream a while back, but with the stuff happening with quackity now, i’m reasonably sure that doesn’t apply. they don’t retcon stuff that was intentional but there may have been something taken back a few months ago before they planned this.

but yeah, clearly the prison stuff is awful and messed up. that’s why i noted the thing at the start of the reply: i am in no way saying that anything sam or quackity have done to dream since prison hasn’t affected him. these are things that i see as having visible impacts on the character.

(i pointed out that dream originally commissioned the prison)

i understand that it’s frustrating to hear that used as an excuse, but i wasn’t using it that way. i was pointing out that neither of them deserve it. during the vault stream, dream tells tommy that his plan is to put him in the prison. he says that exile was “perfect”, and the only issue was that tommy could get away. putting him in the prison fixes that.

so yeah, what dream was planning to do to tommy is different than what’s happening to him. but the reasons that other people wanted dream in the prison match why he wanted tommy in there: like you said, it’s a vault. it’s so he can store him and use him later, to give attachments and thus power and control over others.

tommy’s original plan was to kill dream. ultimately, he didn’t want him to suffer more, he wanted him gone. nobody on the server knew yet that death was limbo, and tommy probably thought it was mercy for someone like dream. dream was the one who brought up the book, as an attempt to save himself. he will say whatever he needs to say to avoid death, because anyone would (except someone like wilbur who’s. accepted his role. you know?) so he’s the one who reduced himself down the the book, saying if he goes, so does it. that’s when sam suggests the prison.

true, the arc is dark. this is where sam’s actions become corrupted and he loses sight of some of the responsibility he claims to have. it’s also the arc where dream lied to tommy that he had changed, and pressured him into staying by saying he was his friend. it’s the arc where dream kills tommy, and doesn’t allow sam to come get his body for days. it’s the arc where dream gets even worse, whether because of his time in the prison or because of his peaked god complex, probably both.

and again, my problem is that criticizing characters for actions they didn’t take is pointless. it tells you not much about the character, and considering the circumstances of what dream had done it does make sense for none of them to step in! they are looking at the fact that dream had an entire vault dedicated to controlling them. they are seeing that dream was fully prepared to murder tubbo and lock tommy away forever to be used. they are witnessing tommy giving dream exactly what he got.

so “acknowledging” this does nothing useful! we do not see these actions (or lack of) specifically affecting dream. i can tell you what dream told people he was doing, and it matches up with things he had done in the past, and there are moments he denies the narrative that you say drove him to do this. but i can’t really prove anything when you say he’s lying here because it fits how you interpret the story.

it’s what you’re saying people are doing to revivedbur: saying he’s lying without any proof, when with him there is evidence and he has the motive to lie. when revivedbur lies, tommy calls him on it. tommy doesn’t call dream on it. i’ve laid out why i think it’s not true, and i’ve seen stuff in early canon that directly contradicts what revivedbur says. occam’s razor! many pieces of evidence versus a few statements from someone who at that point commonly lied about things like that.

dream standing by while tommy and the other citizens get killed in l’manburg by his own orders isn’t very peaceful or non-tyrannical of him. tommy was enforcing an eye for an eye, and to be honest? i don’t think “kill your abuser” is such a terrible message to send, despite the fact that we know that tommy’s coping mechanisms come from a bad source. and tommy was far from free of what dream did to him, as evidenced by later when he again attempts to mirror what dream had done to him in the past.

yeah, i read your analysis of the interaction (skeppy and dream arguing over l’manburg). that’s not the only interpretation. skeppy doesn’t call him the villain. he is repeating back to dream the actions that dream took, and dream tells him he’s making him sound bad. skeppy wasn’t influenced by any “propaganda” you think l’manburg was putting out while they were getting murdered. skeppy was an outsider who was calling it as he saw it.

and if other people saw what dream was doing as bad, maybe he was... doing bad things? for bad reasons? skeppy was critical of dream for his actions. talking over somebody does not certify it as “twisting words”. skeppy was accusing him of doing the actions, like “so you did this? you started the war?”. dream was defending the logic behind his actions, like “well i did it because.”

basically

skeppy: hey it’s kind of. messed up that you killed a bunch of people. you know? you kind of just attacked them out of nowhere

dream: no no no you don’t understand. i had a really good reason

skeppy: i don’t see a reason?

dream: you’re making it seem like i didn’t have to do this

skeppy: you d i d n ‘ t

and skeppy didn’t finish the conversation with “you’re lying” or “you don’t know what you’re talking about”, he just told him he was wrong! as in his actions were cruel and needless! “people must have hated coming to your house”.

(they asked me to name one person who dream cut off first)

okay, name one? puffy. sam. punz? he did cut them off, he straight up told tommy he did it, and making a place in the vault for fran when sam had done nothing but work with him? and they didn’t “show up ready to kill him”, they showed up to see what he was doing. so he tells tommy he abandoned them, and indirectly tells them with the spirit scene. sapnap and george noticed this, and called him on it, but he just said he didn’t mean it?

if dream “wasn’t as close” with sam/puffy/punz, why are we putting responsibility on them for his actions.

so sapnap and george walked away from him, but because he did something to them. and puffy didn’t abandon him. punz didn’t abandon him, punz got paid off because that’s what punz cares about: money. he’s a mercenary.

using “they left him first” for sapnap and george doesn’t allow for why they left him: because he wasn’t treating them fairly. he isn’t their parent, he’s their friend, and he wasn’t acting like it.

“he was hurt and abandoned to the point” “he ended up hurting people doesn’t negate the fact he was hurt himself first” “the environment they all were a part of pushed him this far, and that’s just what happened”

so you’re saying it’s right that the reason dream did bad things to people is because bad things were done to him first? because dream was definitely the one who got attacked first during l’manburg. because he just cared so much about george that he kicked someone out of society just to defend his honor. /s and then, because his real purpose was protecting george, he went back and tried to make things right with george because it wasn’t about tommy? oh wait, he didn’t. he focused on only tommy. because george’s house was an excuse.

“that’s just what happened” is a bad take on “people got abused”. the fact is that dream started a lot of the conflict. looking at the retaliation and self-defense that people did towards him and saying “he got hurt a bunch that’s why he did the later bad stuff” completely negates that he started it? and his “retribution” was always exponentially worse than the actual crime committed?

dude, i’m just trying to point out that the story says he cut people off. yeah, he was hurt at times, but that is not an explanation for what he did. it’s not even a logical cause, because we do not see it affect his character. the subtext has gotta be there. the fact that he was hurt does not make him any more justified.

“circle of violence” does apply (not all of them, though). but in this situation, it’s a kid stealing someone’s lunch money, and then the other kid breaks their nose. the first kid punches the kid, the second kid puts them in the hospital. when the retribution dream gave was always worse than whatever happened to him, the issue is not “look at the people hurting him”, it’s “stop him from hurting people”!

so clearly dream needs some kind of therapy (not from puffy though i’m not letting him near her /hj), because just killing him would be a permanent solution but it would upset people who like his character. the prison is awful and not going to work. my personal solution for him is to send him out somewhere a long way away, so that nobody he’s hurt has to see him again. maybe people that wanted to go with him could, and it would be like a new smp. but when that idea was proposed, tommy said darkly that he was always going to come back. maybe it’ll be the solution in the future. who knows.

if the mistakes were unintentional, why criticize the characters for them? and what about “the environment” besides the other people changed how dream thought? a lot of it was internal.

we have him exiling tommy as a weird, desperate plea for friends (not really) when he very much could have gone back and spoken to the people who were his friends. we have him continuously saying that tommy causes all the problems, and he needs to be “restrained” or “controlled” or whatever other excuse he came up with for taking away a person’s free will.

we have him obsessing over the disks, and we know it’s not about the disks, it’s about power over tommy and power in general. he says this in the vault. he says this at the community house scene. his progression is towards a twisted sense of possession, same as wilbur, oddly enough. but they are different in that wilbur is possessive over the idea of freedom that he created with l’manburg (and having power over that) and dream is possessive over control over all.

wilbur’s idea is ruined. he tied his sense of self to the nation and when it was used for corruption (kind of by him and mostly by others) he saw himself as corrupted and decided to take them both out so that they couldn’t hurt anyone. he admits his own fault to the point of self destruction.

dream’s idea is threatened. other people live there, other people want to do things, and so he becomes so attached to the idea that it’s his server and he will do anything to control opposition. he cannot admit his fault unless forced to.

wilbur would do anything to control a tool of power, because he wanted to not use it as that tool. wilbur wanted anarchy at the end. he says so in his last presidential speech. his naive views about freedom from the start of the server had worn off, as he saw people use power as a tool in a way that he had never intended or meant to use it.

wilbur created the election so that he would have an actual authority over the land, and he could stop the fighting of its citizens. he thought he knew better, kind of like dream did. this is when his motives get the most twisted and selfish, he wanted peace so bad that he would take away freedom for it (like dream). but when he lost, he accepted it, and that’s the difference. he saw the desire for control in his own actions, and hated himself for it. that’s why he wanted to blow up l’manburg, to take away the tool for power and the person who had been tempted to use it.

wilbur was a good leader in the political sense (dream admits this in “tyrant”) but when he stands before the rubble of l’manburg and calls it his, he’s saying that his rule would only lead to destruction. anyone’s rule would. power corrupts. l’manburg ruined is his l’manburg, it’s his original vision of complete freedom laid out before him, and tracked to its inevitable end.

so then, you would say, dream was right, yeah? he didn’t want l’manburg. but wilbur before he explodes l’manburg doesn’t like dream. he thinks dream’s right in that factions lead to oppression, no matter how good the intentions, but he also knows that dream was a little too willing to hurt them and that dream doesn’t believe this. dream does not want anarchy, he wants chaos but only if it gives him control. he treats the smp like his country, and once again, power corrupts.

went off there, sorry. dream and wilbur are similar but different in some very important ways.

sapnap had been hurt by dream before the vault, and as dream didn’t see himself as in the wrong, he didn’t reach out. sapnap was with pogtopia (wait this might be wrong i do not remember but he was definitely on l’manburg’s side during doomsday) because tommy had shown him more kindness than dream, and that was originally dream’s side. dream just turned on them for the book.

and sapnap also witnessed dream mocking tubbo, making fun of tommy, exposing ranboo. he heard dream going off about how tubbo was so stupid for thinking dream was his friend, for thinking dream cared about him. why would sapnap side with dream if dream was showing no signs of even wanting him?

sapnap accused dream of that, and dream did not listen to him. he could not see the other side: he was so convinced that he was right. we do not know if sapnap went into the vault with the intent of killing dream. i’m pretty sure most of them were there to see if what tommy had said was true. and then, sapnap saw that it was.

nobody abandoned him because of the vault because he had already abandoned them. they just made it mutual. it being a “consequence” of stuff doesn’t make it any less of a messed up, power hungry thing to do, and some of them had done nothing to him before he decided he needed to control them. he was planning to use friend to control ghostbur, who he had already taken advantage of and tried to kill once.

“people do not decide to isolate themselves for no reason.”

true, people don’t cut themselves off for no reason. the reason was power and control. i once again have to emphasize that nobody forced him into this: it was a spiral. other people didn’t do everything “first”. the small taste he got of his own medicine was a poor mimic thrown at him by someone he had done terrible things to. he started spiraling before the spirit scene happened. and if people are telling him he can’t achieve peace, maybe they’re just... right? did he go up to someone and go “i don’t know how to make this server peaceful :(“? because if he did, and if they then pointed at his long list of war crimes and told him not like this, i don’t really see that as anything more than a consequence for things he had already done.

someone can lie about what they want. maybe he did originally want peace, or maybe he was lying to himself that he did. l’manburg did not invite war. he wanted unity above peace, and that “unity” dissolved into “control”.

it was a defense so that nobody could control him the way he was going to control them. cutting himself off was out of fear, yeah. collecting everyone else’s items? power and control. he says this a ton of times, sometimes not even out loud.

i did rewatch the vault vod. that’s how i got all the quotes of him stating his motives. i’m not saying it was a healthy thing to do at all. i never said dream was mentally healthy, i said he had a god complex and he was obsessed with control. someone’s bad mental state can hurt others as well as themself, and they’re still responsible for the others and for trying to be a better and more respectful person. that’s why revivedbur’s “apologies” mean nothing right now.

“he lists his reason for starting the war as them declaring independence, so i don’t think it really matters when the official document was sent.”

it does matter a little bit, actually. they were already attacking l’manburg before official war was declared. they also attacked them during the peace period. wilbur wrote the declaration as he was standing on the roof of the caravan, being shot at by the greater smp.

a country becomes independent when it officially declares itself to be independent. they were still united; it was tyranny.

when dream saw that l’manburg was writing the declaration, he scrambled to declare war. he had reopened and started other conflicts in the past, and involved himself in places he did not need to be. it’s true that a response is a response, but you cannot treat all responses the same way. quackity’s “response” to the things dream had done (killing tommy among those) was to torture him. we do not consider that good, or fair, or “just a response”, we consider it cruel and unusual punishment.

the greater smp fulfilled the words that wilbur had not yet written in the document, and that’s because they weren’t a prophesy, they were a history.

“...would be completely honest about (dream’s motivations in the vault) in front of his biggest enemy. /s”

i don’t see evidence that dream wasn’t being honest. what did he have to lose by it? tommy could do nothing to hurt him. so yep, he would be honest about it. and he’s listed his reasons as power before. he also has the ability to tell the truth about his motives.

dream does not see tommy that way. he sees him as someone whose only positive contribution to the server is attachment. he tells tommy that evil is relative, and to dream, tommy is the evil one. in fact, he says that tommy is evil lots of times. he only says that tommy sees himself as a hero when he’s trying to convince him to let him kill his friend. dream is using tommy’s black and white perception to get him to do what dream wants. he only says tommy sees himself as the hero, not that dream sees him that way. dream does not care about who’s the good guy and who’s the bad guy, because he’s not idealistic like wilbur and he’s not a kid like tommy.

him making a joke about building the prison with a “little bit of evil” doesn’t matter because next line he says that tommy’s evil to him. dream isn’t playing the villain, cc!dream is. cc!dream is playing a character that is antagonistic towards others, and he plays into it and jokes around with it, as other people playing antagonistic roles have in the past. cc!wilbur does this a lot during the election and pogtopia. cc!techno hints at it with his “ah yes, blowing up a country, we must be the good guys”.

it may sound like a character because someone’s playing it, but it’s not dream.

this video matches up with some of my points here, but it’s also framed like an english class. it is an interesting meta argument, and one that i would say i partially agree with, but as we’re not really arguing on terms of meta it does not act as a general opposition to your argument. the intent of the authors does not dictate how you see the story, but it can help with interpretation of it.

dream’s words during the vault scene sure do line up with his actions for the months before that. so yeah, no discredit to cc!dream. he’s playing his character. and it’s not like he’s unwilling to make him sympathetic. he’s done so in the past (and is doing so now) and the fact that he does not do it during the vault, and downplays the tragic part of it (him losing his friends) sure makes it seem like the main point here isn’t “poor dream”, it’s “poor tommy”. they’re telling a story. it has a moral.

dream being reserved about his plans may be shown in the fact that nobody knew about the vault (except punz i think?) until dream was ready to put it into play. he generally is quiet about what he wants, he just cares a lot about it and will do a lot to get it. he’s not one for speeches unless he’s trying to make a point. the point here being that tommy is trapped. dream’s capable of explaining his thoughts. tommy asks him why and invites him to share, so he does.

this isn’t really a “nobody can interpret it like this”, it’s just pointing out that the events of canon are there and should be fully considered. character dream’s perspective of the story is biased, so people can look at it and be correct in how dream sees the situation, but “how dream sees it” and “how the story goes” do not necessarily line up.

conflicts dream has started besides the vault? okay.

-reopening the disk war by digging up the hidden disks

-declaring war on l’manburg the first time

-burning down other buildings in order to frame tommy

-blowing up the community house (or having it done for him)

-attacking l’manburg again with techno and phil

(didn’t start really, but inserted himself into when it wasn’t his business:)

-helped pogtopia

-gave wilbur tnt

-sided with manburg in the fight

-built walls around l’manburg

-demanded tommy be punished

-took personal responsibility for exile and used it as a way to isolate tommy

there’s also this post that describes things dream has done in general. the tone of the post is biased, but the actions were canon. some of these may be “retribution” but they sure were uncalled for.

so when he exiled tommy, that was about “unity”? big happy family except for one guy because “he causes all the problems”? it doesn’t matter whether he believed he was in the right for his motives. the vault does not make sense for peace or unity. it is a twisted, controlled unity. what i’m saying is that he uses peace as an excuse for his actions. he had to exile tommy, tommy would have just gotten worse. he had to declare war on l’manburg, it was a necessary evil. because nothing screams “peace” like declaring war and killing the other side, right?

those may be his actual motives in the early scenes, and he thinks he’s doing the right thing. this changes with the vault. he no longer uses this as an excuse, his “excuse” is that he has a right to it. his self proclaimed motive is power and control, and unity through that. so why not accept that as his motive when he says it there?

“becoming a control freak as a result of feeling the loss of control over your own circumstances isn’t equal to dehumanizing the people you’re trying to control.”

nah dude he absolutely dehumanized them and took away their agency? he describes tommy as a pet and a tool, minutes before he switches and describes himself as the book. this could also be used to make an interesting point on how he sees people as their values, in item form. so he’s using one item to control another. tubbo’s a pawn, tommy’s a tool, techno’s a weapon, he’s the book.

he calls george a baby, and makes decisions for him. by planning to using the items to control the people, he was prepared to take away their freedom and agency by emotionally manipulating them. he did this to tommy. agency is the capacity of someone to act. he takes away that ability in order to have control.

he’s not just a control freak over his own life, the problem is that he does it to others. again, we’re talking true freedom here: the ability to do anything, even things that we would consider morally wrong. he takes away george’s power, which is revealed to be nothing. he then swiftly turns and tells him that if he tries to overthrow eret, he would be a tyrant. not acknowledging that dream just overthrew a king and stated in a new one, he hypocritically calls george the tyrant for planning to do that.

(i didn’t even notice this until now, but it’s actually interesting: dream is extremely hypocritical here, unless, of course, he sees himself as having more claim to who is king. now why would he think that? a hierarchy, perhaps?)

“which is understandable seeing as you’ve said already you never tried to look deeper into him, but it’s incorrect nonetheless.”

i said that before this i had not attempted to examine his character in a sympathetic light. that’s what i’ve been doing. his wish to “fix” his home is really just a wish to control his home, which is pretty evident when you look at right before exile. the smp was peaceful then. tommy had committed petty crimes before, and george didn’t even really care about the house. it was minimal damage. dream jumped at the opportunity to convince everyone else that tommy was the real problem (speaking of propaganda and vilifying).

and “he was getting better until the sixteenth” disregards that he threatened eret, enabled wilbur (however you interpret that, he still enabled him), and sided with schlatt for power reasons even though he said he would help pogtopia. giving pogtopia some stuff doesn’t make him the “good guy” because pogtopia were not the good guys! that’s the point! he sided with them because wilbur had less ambition than schlatt, and therefore posed less of a threat to the greater smp! he wasn’t helping them just purely out of the goodness of his heart. he didn’t think schlatt was right, he abandoned him very quickly, but he could have just taken the book and dipped. he fought in the war. he took the book for personal gain and he placed that above the trust of pogtopia.

“he wasn’t on a power trip at all, he didn’t have a god complex up until the prison stripped him of all his dignity and then threw an opportunity at him, and he wasn’t trying to prove anything to anyone.”

power trip: an activity or way of behaving that makes a person feel powerful

exile and the vault, arguably before that a few times as well. there are a few quotes that emphasize this.

dream’s god complex was already there in the vault. that’s why he was scared enough of being controlled that he shut everyone else away: he wanted to secure himself even more as the sole power.

and exactly. he wasn’t proving anything to anyone else, he was proving it to himself. therefore he also wasn’t trying to “prove” he was big and bad and evil and irredeemable, he was trying to feel confident about his own power!

if he doesn’t care if he’s thought as of evil, why did it supposedly drive him into the spiral? if he stopped caring about it, that would also explain why he was indifferent towards it (because he was indifferent towards it, every time someone called him that, indifferent or angry). he didn’t think he was evil because he thought he had a right to what he was doing. so he pushed himself into wanting more control, after seeing something he identified as a problem: tommy. you’re right that that’s part of what makes him tragic: that he stopped caring about what he owed to anyone else. that’s why he hurt them.

“it’s likely and fits perfectly into his character arc in canon.”

people who are emotionally repressed still show emotions, they just don’t show them as often. dream shows emotions but he does not show the specific emotion that would give evidence to this theory. i’m saying that claiming something is deeply rooted in his character (not the emotional repression, that’s confirmed) when he shows no sign of it doesn’t line up with canon. it’s more of a theory than an analysis.

“it is good storytelling because cc!wilbur pulls it off brilliantly.”

cc!wilbur still played a complex character! his behavior changed significantly after the war, but there is evidence that he was a certain way during the war. his character grew from that point but my argument is that he was not always a liar about important things and that he genuinely believed in the values he formed l’manburg for. if you want to watch wilbur being power hungry and hypocritical, rewatch the election arc.

actions, not words. cc!wilbur pointed out hypocritical things his character said, but that just shows he was playing a flawed character. people using the wall thing as some kind of proof that he was evil is stupid because part of the idea behind the wall was poking fun at america. it was “look, this is what you guys do”.

his early character was passionate and naive. cc!wilbur was aware of this. he was still a chaotic crimeboy, the nation was founded on drugs. but not everything he did was “for chaos” because again, he played a multi-dimensional character. he can make jokes about politics.

“his main support system left by themselves.”

i’ve already explained why i think dream broke most of his own bonds. again, there’s textual evidence to support this and actions as well that line up with it. and lots of people were willing to help dream. he didn’t murder all those people by himself.

“it also seems you’re strongly biased against c!dream, which, to be fair, the majority of the fandom is.”

it’s true my bias is against dream. it’s also true that my reasons for that bias are backed up by moments in the story where he clearly states his intentions, and a lot of the evidence to the contrary is, to me, one-off moments that can be interpreted in many ways. a lot of the bias also comes from the fact that he did pretty bad things and i’ve been watching this for a long time.

this post is pretty much what i’m saying, i guess.

alright @flypaw here it is :]

~ Lad 2

#c!dream critical #ask to tag

[dreamerstreamer]

im so curious to hear your thoughts on george’s recent dethronement?

this is going to be a long one, so strap in, folks!

there are two central ideas that surround george’s dethronement: the nature of power and what it means to protect someone. i’ll be talking about them in order as stated, then providing my final take at the end.

1) the nature of power

so, power—what is it as seen on the dream smp? for the most part, power has been established largely by two things: 1) how much of a threat you are, and 2) how much influence you have. as of this moment, it’s clear that the two most powerful people on the server are dream and technoblade; both of them are immensely powerful and could easily take down an entire nation if they so pleased, while also being incredibly influential in their sphere of power. dream could say one word and an entire flock of people would switch sides just to agree with him. technoblade has mastery over his use of languages as presented through speeches, which have clearly left an impact on the server as a whole. just based on these two facts alone, we can determine that power in the dream smp is based on how threatening and influential you are.

looking at the position of king within the dream smp faction, it’s quite clear that despite holding such a grand title, the king in itself is not exactly a position that ensures its holder will have power. instead, it is more of a figurehead position. dream does most if not all of the negotiations regarding the country, managing its internal and external affairs entirely by himself, while the king does none of that. while eret was king, he was not particularly feared by others for his power—rather, he was hated because of his position and his association with the faction. the same can be said for george’s time spent as king. did he suddenly gain immense influence or become much more frightening? no, not at all. all he got was a new house and a fancy title. being king entails the castle, the name, and the entourage of people, nothing more and nothing less. the true position of power within the faction beings to dream, who has been labelled as god within the dream smp world. there’s really no beating him there.

to me and dream, dream’s dethronement of george means very little, as george is effectively losing nothing of value. the castle? he literally had a house before. the title? it’s a single word before his name. the entourage? it’s not like he doesn’t have friends. from an entirely political standpoint, george loses nothing from being dethroned. he never called the shots and didn’t have any more power or influence as king. so from one perspective, everything should be just fine, as the transfer of kingship does not entail a transfer of power.

however, it is very clear that to many within the dream smp that the title of king does actually hold some semblance of value. why? “well, you’re a king! isn’t that cool? you’re different. you’re above us.” because of these beliefs, there do exist people who are upset by george’s abdication, like sapnap and quackity. they think that dream’s dethronement of george means that he thinks that george does not deserve to be in a position of power. george himself believes that dream thinks this, and as a result is angry.

when asked about if he cares about being king, george responds with, “we need the throne.” george believes he needs the throne because he thinks that being king gives him power. what george fails to realize though, is that the title itself means nothing. technoblade is no king, and yet he is arguably the second most powerful person on the server. as such, dream’s transition of kingship from george to eret has formed two different sides.

2) what it means to protect someone

from the other day’s stream, dream makes it explicitly clear that he cares about nothing on the server save for tommy’s discs, which expand his sphere of influence and thus make him more powerful. he shouts in four people’s faces and even curses about it, making his stance on the matter remarkably clear. however, we (later) learn that this is largely a ruse, as dream does care about his friends, taking clear interest in protecting them from harm. he explains that he wants to dethrone george to protect him from assassination attempts and attacks against his character. this obviously shows that dream lied about not caring about anything, as he does care about his friends’ well-beings.

however, sapnap and george are disgusted by his actions, as they dislike the fact that dream had told such a bold, profound lie in the first place. they insist that he should have been honest, should have done the moral thing and just stuck up for george and found a different way to negotiate. when sapnap even finds out about george being dethroned, he’s at his side in an instant, ready to support him and defend him all while being honest and true to his friend.

these two actions immediately present two cases on what it means to protect someone.

sapnap and george believe that protecting someone entails sticking by their side through thick and thin no matter what, even if it means taking the hard way out. the means justify the ends.

dream believes that so long as that person remains safe and sound, it doesn’t matter what he has to do to ensure their security, even if that means he has to manipulate them, lie to them, and make them hate him. the ends justify the means.

george’s, sapnap’s, and dream’s views on kingship paired with their beliefs on what it means to protect someone have obviously created a rift between them, dividing them into two and one, ultimately increasing tensions within the smp by tenfold as dream slowly begins to lose his sphere of influence.

3) my conclusions

so, who do i think is in the right?

honestly, no one.

while i do agree with dream that the title of king is in itself pointless and that he’s ultimately just doing his best to ensure his friend’s safety, i cannot fully commit to his ideology. at the same time, i think that george and sapnap have a point with the fact that dream is disrespecting them, but i think that their views on kingship are rather silly.

relationships—platonic, romantic, familial, and et cetera—are two way paths. both ends need to be doing their fair share of the work. friends listen to each other, take each other’s perspectives into consideration. by effectively allowing himself to be hated by the other parties, dream is no longer defending a friendship. he is simply fighting to protect their lives, but not their interests. he is no longer listening, only doing what he thinks is best, and i cannot agree with that. i will, however, continue to stand firm on the fact that being king within the dream smp world amounts to nothing in terms of power, so i’m still utterly baffled why people are so greatly disturbed by george’s dethronement. is it the symbolism? the connotations of the action? who knows!

otherwise, this was a really fascinating step forward within the story! dream’s character has been developed to an almost astonishing degree. i can’t wait to see what happens next.

#mcyt #dream #dream mcyt #dream team #dream smp #georgenotfound #sapnap #dreamwastaken #belle babbles #ask #anon #dream smp spoilers #dream smp analysis #mcyt analysis #technoblade

[strawberrylemonz]

January 20, 2021 - DSMP

Here is my review of what happened on today’s stream! Keep in mind that I was only watching Tommy’s POV, but will be analyzing any other viewpoints that I come across (Mainly Tubbo’s)

I’m going to be honest with everyone, I was unsure as to whether not any of our boys would make it out alive. I went into the stream preparing the worst.

Tommy and Tubbo talking each other up, preparing to leave made me feel all kinds of thing. Like I stated earlier, I was prepared for the two to end their adventure today. I vibed with them when they walked down the prime path, and froze up when I saw the first person in line. I’m not ashamed to say that I nearly sobbed when I saw everyone line up to say their goodbyes to the boys (I’m sensitive, shut up). 

The way Sam kept giving them stuff??? Loved that

The way Tommy and Quackity’s voices quivered when they spoke to each other? Punch to the heart?

Tommy telling Eret that she was always the true king??? YES!!! POP OFF!!!

The entire trip to where Dream was both made me happy and broke my heart. Here, we saw these boys, children forced to grow up quickly to be used by those they trusted, do their best to be kids for a moment. They were kids for, what they believed, could be the last time. They had their serious moments where Tommy kept reminding Tubbo that it was okay to not feel okay about the situation. Where Tommy didn’t want Tubbo to hide his inner thoughts from him just to try and make him feel better. The moment that they watched the sun together made me all sentimental and shit. Tommy preparing to die and have Tubbo leave and tell his story broke me. 

“Why did you tell me to bring Tubbo?”

“Because, it’s always been you and Tubbo against me, remember? Ever since the beginning, Tommy and Tubbo against Dream” (paraphrasing)

I actually got hyped up when Tommy got the disc. It reminded me of Tommy’s clutch the time he dropped the disc down to Tubbo and knocked Dream off the tower using only planks. I had let my hope for them grow. And then I had my heart broken.

Dream using Tubbo against Tommy was something that I expected would happen, but I still wasn’t prepared for it to actually happen. I don’t think I’ll easily forget about how Tommy gave up the disc to Dream, even when Tubbo begged for Tommy to keep the disc and go. My heart nearly dropped to my stomach when I saw Dream break that first dirt block. It dropped when he told the boys to put their armor in the hole. 

I have to admit, I was kinda confused that the homeless man had an evil lair and not a home, but pop off I guess??? The elevator was pretty cool, ngl

When I saw the two discs on the floor, I thought, “Bitch, you better be polishing this fucking floor every 30 minutes. Disrespect Nicki Minaj? What?” My second thought was, “why tf did you make two giant ass shrines for these discs??? Didn’t even center them, wtf dude.”

When Dream was monologuing and showing off the stolen goods and pets (and Skeppy) he stole from everyone, I knew he was on something. Him calling Tommy the key confirmed that Dream was overthinking everything and seeing things in places they didn’t belong. Did Tommy initially bring these bonds? Bring all the things Dream said he did? Yeah, I’ll admit it, he did. But it was the people in the server that kept that going, kept it alive. If not Tommy, someone else would have started that chain. The way Tommy look horrified and uttered with a horrific tone, “how do you not hurt?” when Dream mentioned how he cut off all his attachments was hnnnnnnnn

Tubbo actively trying to protect Tommy from going to prison while Tommy was actively trying to protect Tubbo from permanently dying was-

Man

Man, that broke my heart.

“You wanna be the hero of this server? Every hero has an origin story. Batman had his parents, Spider-Man had Uncle Ben. You have Tubbo.”

The look of complete horror/terror that came across Tommy’s face the instant those words were spoken. He genuinely looked scared. He kept trying to defend Tubbo, despite Dream repeating how defenseless Tommy was against him. Dream telling the boys to say their good byes hurt me in more ways that I can describe. Tommy was panicking, actively trying to come up with ways to get Tubbo out of there, no matter the cost or price that he had to pay. Tubbo telling him that it was okay, everything would be okay, he would be okay. The way Tommy was desperate to hold onto his best friend, his Tubbo, whilst saying, “You can’t be okay with this! Why are you okay with this?”

My heart nearly stopped for a second the moment Tubbo said “goodbye, Tommy”

My mind flashed back to Tubbo saying those exact words whilst exiling Tommy, his best friend, for the sake of everyone being safe. Now, here he was again, saying those exact words to the exact same person. The only difference? He wasn’t sacrificing his best friend for the sake of everyone and Dream. No, he was sacrificing himself for the sake of his best friend, his only true friend, Tommy. 

“Get away from them”

“Punz?”

“I’m sorry Dream, but you should have paid me more.”

Literal chills. I cannot. It’s the “On your left” of the DSMP. The way everyone came through the portal to line up against this tyrant that manipulated them all. The way I imagined everyone coming through to see this decked out dude with a god complex about to murder a bloody and bruised child, said child’s best friend (also bloody and bruised) was watching, begging to have his friend spared. Imagining how they saw the tear streaks down the boys’ messed up faces as they accepted their fates. As they saw their fear turn to hope as Tommy got Tubbo behind them for safety. How Tommy entrusted them to keep Tubbo safe. How they all came, decked out, to defend these two children. 

How Quackity came in nothing but his yeezys because he just fucking knew that Dream wouldn’t put up a fight. The way Dream was so confident that he had power over everyone because he rid himself of his bonds towards objects and friends, only for that to be his downfall. The way Sapnap, Dream’s old friend, his buddy, was the one to give Tommy the pickaxe. The way Puffy was there to protect the two boys she renounced his duckling title for (and the nation).

The way Tommy dug a hole, without any protection or weapons, and had Dream throw his stuff in. The way he didn’t blow any of Dreams shit up, like he had happen to himself, and, instead, used Dream’s things to protect Tubbo and everyone else. The way Tommy took away Dream’s first two lives, paralleling the times Dream took Tommy’s two lives. The way Tommy boxed him in, like Tubbo was at the festival, and the way Tubbo held a bow to Dream. The way Tommy screamed at Dream to tell everyone what he had done. How Dream was the one to blow up the community house. How Dream tormented the poor boy in exile. The way Tommy didn’t spare him because he liked him, or wanted to play mind games with him. No, Tommy spared him because he had a chance to get his brother back, his family. 

“Let’s make Wilbur proud. SUCK IT GREEN BOY!!!!”

“SUCK IT GREEN BOY!!!!”

The way the boys sincerely thanked everyone for showing up, fully knowing that they didn’t have to do shit. The way that Tommy said to go to Tubbo’s vc, obviously warming Tubbo’s heart. The way they made it to bench, and finally had a chance to breathe. How they could sit their, listen to their discs, and be kids again. No wars, no going against Dream, nothing. They could just be Tommy and Tubbo, like it’s always been since the beginning. 

Then Wilbur fishfucking Soot had to crash the moment like the older brother he was, lmaooooo. 

“You didn’t die”

“Ghostbur?”

“I’m not Ghostbur.”

I sucked in a breath, not knowing how the interaction was going to go. Was Wilbur still in the mindset he was whilst blowing up the nation he and his younger brother created? Was he in a mindset before that? Was he sane? 

I must admit, their bickering match, along with Tubbo’s dancing, made me realize how much I missed their dynamic. I realized how much I missed Wilbur being in the picture. (Tommy whispering to Tubbo how he liked Ghostbur was hilarious)

Wilbur complaining about being stuck with Schlatt in the afterlife was hilarious. Wilbur admitting that he was preparing, waiting, for Tommy, his younger brother, to join him in the afterlife had me gripping my plushies. Wilbur telling Tommy that he’s proud of him put a sledgehammer into my fragile dam. 

“I’ll see you soon.”

“Yeah, I’ll see you soon.”

THEY. ARE. BROTHERS!!!!

It was just so refreshing to see these two get the happy ending they deserved in this arc. The pain and suffering these two children went through at the expense of others, how they were forced to grow up quickly because of their situations, all of that was finally pushed towards the path of recovery. And although they’ve been through hell and back, it’s still them. Although the future will be hard for them, throwing more trials and difficult choices, they know that they’ll make it out, because that how it’s always been. And if their strengthen bond after today can tell them anything, it’s that it’ll always be like that.

It’s always been Tommy and Tubbo.

What I want/what I predict

FOR GEORGE TO BE AWAKE FOR FIVE FUCKING SECONDS

Everyone complimenting Niki on her new fit better fucking happen, I will manifest it

Dream will use his favor from Techno to break out of prison

Connor playing a bigger role in the SMP

Foolish revealing that they don’t need Dream alive (hopefully)

Ghostbur to say a proper goodbye before Wilbur is revived

GLATT

GLATTBUR

SBI reunion with every alive for more than five fucking minutes

Wilbur ignoring his dad Phil and zooming over to little brother Tommy so that he can hug him and tell him that he’s safe now and that he’s so proud of him

THERAPY ARC!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYONE LOVELY, PLEASE

JUST GET EVERYONE INSIDE THE THERAPY GROUP SECTION AND TALK ABOUT THEIR TRAUMA AND FEELINGS SO THEY CAN ALL CLEAR UP THEIR MISUNDERSTANDINGS!!!!!

The egg will start to negatively affect people, causing those not affected to fear for their home and friends

SBI + TUBBO AND RANBOO VS EGGPIRE????? POG?????

Tubbo nuking L’manhole to get rid of the spreading red

Techno/Phil to come to an understanding with Tommy; vice versa

Those unaffected teaming up to safe those affected

Someone (preferably Ranboo) unintentionally activating the End Portal lmao

The rest of the SBI + Tubbo saving Tommy from being murdered by Jack and Niki

Jack and Niki learning that killing the child is not the fucking answer to their problems (If it didn’t work for William Afton, it won't work for y’all. Stop trying to be the man behind the slaughter)

Techno and Tommy rebuilding their trust and friendship with each other

Tommy giving Techno the Axe of Peace

Sam being influenced by the egg and becomes corrupted

Ranboo being free??? Pog???? Pog

Puffy and Niki having a one-to-one conversation about their personal opinions and goals

Puffy visiting Dream whilst he sits in his cell

Skeppy and Bad to be okay again :(

Everyone infected to be okay again :(

Tommy bonding with Eret

Big Q continuing to hold Clingy Duo close to him

Schlatt coming back but instead of trying to run for president and mess with everyone, he’s just everyone’s drunk uncle that somehow gives wise advice to every situation

Wilbur coming back but he’s that angry older cousin that only allows the favorite family members(Tommy)/friends to stay in his room 

GIVE ME MEXICAN DREAM AND GIRL DREAM!!! ONLY HETERO RELATIONSHIP I SEE THAT IS BEYOND POGGERS

Lani and Drista to make a comeback at the same time

Tommy meeting more family members

The kids being able to be kids

Lani selling yeezy

Drista w/ bedrock

Drista laughing at Dream’s imprisonment

Everyone finding peace within each other’s chaos and living in harmony

#dream smp #dreamsmp #/dsmp #/rp #tommyinnit #tubbo #dream #sapnap #georgenotfound #technoblade #philza minecraft #Wilbur Soot #sbi #sleepy bois inc #sleepyboisinc #captain puffy #niki nihachu #ranboo #awesomedude #punz #badboyhalo #skeppy #connoreatspants #jack manifold #foolish #drista #lanusky #lani #tubblings #quackity

[nebraska-is-a-myth]

c!Eret season 2 recap

I wanted to make an official recap of everything that c!Erret has done this season (post-november 16th) so here it is! Some of this is taken from the official wiki, but most of it is just from memory because the Eret dream smp fan wiki is lacking. Feel free to send any asks or questions if you have them.  

These Events are in chronological order

Given back the throne

Exactly 21 days after being dethroned by dream, in a surprise turn of events Dream re-crowns Eret as the king of the dream smp after realising that george was put in too much danger being a figurehead, especially after being killed by technoblade on his first day as king. However after this embarrassment on George's behalf, this creates newly formed enemies of Eret and the monarchy. To better defend themselves, Eret gathers their close allies HBomb (Who had taken residence in Erets castle) and CaptainPuffy and officially knights them. She gives them both blocks of Diamond named ‘onwards’ which is Erets name in latain.

Adoption of fundy

After the death of Wilbur, Eret realised that there was no one there to take care of Fundy anmore, and wanted to step up and provide a good support system for Fundy. Eret proposed to Fundy that she officially adopt him and even created a document of adoption for Fundy and Eret to sign. However, because Ph1lza was now technically Fundys legal guardian, the document also needed Phils signature for the adoption to go through. Phil was skeptical having never met eret before, but eventually gave the okay for the adoption to happen. Because of miscommunication, the adoption is still in process after a conflict arose between fundy and phil, so they have been unable to unanimously leaglise the adoption. Eret did make a joke that this would benefit him at getting back at dream after the dethroning because of the wedding between fundy and dream that was still to happen, however because the wedding technically isn't cannon (according to dream, although someone has yet to inform fundy lol) this was still just a joke. 

The Mexical l’manburg/El Rapids conflict

In an attempt to put Mexican l’manburg on the map and have people recognize it as an independent state, quackity led a movement in retaliation to regain the crown and restore George as the king. With this plan a small section of the path to Erets castle was blown up and Karl lost one of his cannon lives in the explosion in an attempt to frame Eret. Quackity tried to bring this information to Dream to have Eret dethroned again, but after seeing how George was treated under the monarchy, and accounts from both Eret and Puffy that these allegations were false, he refused and blew up Mexican L’manburg.

Stood against ranboo in his decision to choose his own side

When Ranboo became visibly upset after the explosion of the community house, Eret was one of the main opposers of Ranboo’s idea to not choose sides and just let whatever happens on doomsday, happen. In an effort to be redeemed, Eret pushed hard to help build the resistance and planned to fight to save l’manburg from being destroyed. They even offered up one of their fortresses as a headquarters for the group. 

Position on Doomsday

Was asked to join niki and fundy on their revenge story against l’manburg, and even though he agreed to this, he was undecided if the people on the revenge list needed to be taught any lesson.

However, on the morning of doomsday, fundy and niki came to Eret with an invitation to join them in sabotaging the resistance and letting l’manburg burn to the ground because of the safety it failed to give them. Even though Eret accepted this invitation, she disagreed heavily with the list of ‘people that needed to be taught a lesson’ that fundy and niki had created. 

First signs of redemption

Tommy's relationship grew with eret in the doomsday war, trusting Eret to help them

Before doomsday had officially commenced, it was just Eret and Tommy talking war prep before the others arrived. This was a major turning point for Eret as this is the first sign of trust Tommy had officially shown to Eret since the betrayal all those months ago. When Tommy died he even entrusted Eret to pick up his stuff and return it to him during the battle against the withers. 

Relationship with technoblade

A good note to make is that Technoblade and Eret are actually on quite good terms, and Techno even refrained from killing him in the doomsday battle. Which was quite a surprising thing to see since Technoblade knew of Erets status as king. ( This isn't that important to the plot, I just find it interesting to note)

Ghostburs resurrection

In the aftermath of doomsday, Ghostbur revealed to eret and quackity that he wanted to be brought back to life. Eret then revealed he had been reading ancient texts similar to what philza was reading and promised to help ghostbur be revived as wilbur. And in return Wilbur would change the L’manbur anthem to ‘also Eret’ instead of ‘fuck eret’. Eret then constructed a shrine full of things attributing to aliveburs life as well as things he thought would help make ghostbur feel safe. Unfortunately this did not go as planned and were confronted by shlatt instead of alivebur. After learning that the resurrection may need a totem of undying, Philza, ranboo and Eret traveled to technos cabin to retrieve a map that would lead them to a woodland mansion. However, its only after they travel all the way to technic cabin that philza brings up the fact that eret is king and refuses to let her on the property. Thinking that this would be the end of their journey and philza would resurrect Wilbur without them, in a desperate attempt to gain their trust, Eret removes his glasses and crown in front of both Eret and ranboo. This is only the second time Eret has ever willingly revealed their eyes to another member of the server (the other being tommy, who did not react well). Philza and ranboo remain calm while in front of Eret but when Eret turns to leave after philza continues to deny their help, the two make fun of Erets Eyes, proceeding to call him a freak. Ranboo also makes a comment on how it is now easy to maintain eye contact with Eret without their sunglasses, although the reasons for this have not been confirmed. 

Eret, feeling insulted, went back to Dream SMP to find a totem on his own and reflected on his own views on government. He deeply regretted betraying his friends in the original war, and felt bad that he earned his crown through this betrayal. At the same time, his position as king let him do things to make things better, and he tried very hard not to order people around. Wilbur inspired Eret's own reign through his strong leadership, and Eret always felt as though Wilbur could spark hope in a way he never could. That was why he worked so hard to bring him back, and built a historical museum and helped his people. Eventually Ranboo and Phil called back, and they went off to find a totem together.

The finale

In the finale of the second season, Eret waves Tubbo and Tommy off from at the end of the path. Eret voices his support for Tommy and Tommy responds by saying that Eret “will always be the true king.” Officially redeeming Eret for his action of the first l’manburg war. When the group goes to help the clingy duo, Eret is the first one to run to protect them and stays in the back of the group to make sure they are safe. Later on in a moment of self reflection, they realise that their relationship with dream was purely manipulation and reiterates the regret they feel for betraying their friends. Eret also states how much she misses Wilbur and wants to go ahead with the revival, despite knowing that Wilbur does not want to be brought back to life. In a moment of vulnerability they state that “I need him.” and reiterates how important Wilbur was to Eret, even after all the hatred and sadness they bestowed onto each other. 

In the future Eret hopes to create a safe place for everyone in the smp, free from Dreams rule. 

#nebraska speaks #the eret #eret #man this was fun #gunna make sure this dosent get lost to the void somehow #dream smp #mcyt #if ive made any mistakes please feel free to correct me

[thelullabyer12]

An Ode to L’Manberg

It all started on a day like any other All the salmon had swum to the sea When my lover she darted away down the stream With the heart that she'd taken from me

Wilbur watched the stream and the fish in it. He saw the dark bodies flash down the river. He felt empty. Every time he saw the fish he was reminded of the way he lied. He lied, he lied, he lied. It was fine though, right? Ignorance is bliss, as they say. He would tell his son one day. He had time. He just wanted to preserve the goodness in his son for a bit longer. Besides, it was close to the truth. Fundy did have a mom out there. A mother who left him. 

And my chest, though it ached, there was hope A little beacon of light Though my sunniest days are now stolen away I still had our son by my side

Fundy was wanted. He was abandoned, yes, but he was wanted by Wilbur. He was wanted. He was good. He was everything good in the world, to Wilbur. His gentle demeanor, his bright smile, his curious brown eyes. The young boy who deserved everything Wilbur could give him and more. He deserved more than the cards he was dealt. Wilbur wondered if this was how Philza felt with him. Perhaps not, after all, Phil still sent Wilbur to war. He still had scars from the battles and calluses from the swords and bows he wielded. 

And as he looked up at me with those wondering eyes I just knew that I must protect him with my life And make a land that is good and a land that is free For the better of you and of me

His son ran up to him, a shining blue beetle in his small hands. Love overflowed in Wilbur’s heart as he watched his son babble. “Blue... beeble... beeble!” His son giggled, and Wilbur melted. He looked a little past his son and saw the lands of the Dream SMP. His son would never be in a land he could call his own. Dream was fine but he was... well, he liked to be in control. Fundy deserved better. He deserved a land where he could be free. Where he would never need to fight. Where he was safe.

We'll build these walls with our own fair hands Through the wind and the rain and the snow And I swear on my life that I'll stay by your side Through whatever the world has to throw

Eret built the walls. Eret, one of his best friends. There was harsh weather but while Wilbur was inside with Fundy, Eret was dutifully building. Sometimes Wilbur would invite Eret in for a warm drink. He left Eret to play with Fundy as Wilbur prepared three mugs of hot cocoa. He left him alone with his son. God, he thought Eret would be loyal. He thought he knew Eret. 

So I summoned my men to my side And we sung a familiar tune As a final goodbye with our fists to the sky To our past as we started anew

He declared independence, surrounded by his most trusted men. Tommy and Tubbo, with round cheeks and dreams of glory. Eret, with his elegant sword and dark glasses. Fundy, now a young teenage boy, with his chipped wooden sword and adult fangs just growing in. This was a new start for all of them. A land where children wouldn’t have to bleed on thee dirt they fought for. A land where Wilbur could be the father hat Phil never was. 

We built these walls with our own fair hands Through the wind and the rain and the snow And we swore that we'd keep an unwavering faith To the land that we'd carved for a home

Phil, who exposed him to the horrors of war too quickly. Phil, who couldn’t understand his son’s love for music and peace. Phil, who made Wilbur fight battles for the chance to live free. Wilbur would make a land, a peaceful land, for his son. Wilbur would be better. He promised his son he would be safe. Fundy believed him. He had no reason not to. 

Oh the thought of the day set our country aflame As the sun rose bloody and true Arrows burned through the skies as we swallowed our cry And we ran with our backs to the moon

Oh the day. The day he fled, men right in front of him. The day they all scrambled own a narrow tunnel, trusting blindly in their friend. The traitor. That’s all Eret would ever be to him now. Other’s may bow and call him king but Wilbur will stare him in the eyes and call him by name. Small victories. That day would never be forgotten. The day arrows fell like rain and the once proud soldiers of L’Manberg died in a trap made by one of their own. The day his son died for the first time. The day Eret betrayed them. 

To our demise From a friend full of lies

Eret. Eret who stole a life from his son. It was Eret’s fault Fundy lost his innocence. Eret was thee reason Fundy flinched at the sound of a sword unsheathing. If it weren’t for Eret, Fundy would still be a child. It was Eret’s fault, not his. Eret’s fault. Phil’s fault. It’s the same, isn’t it? Not Wilbur’s fault. It couldn’t be. 

Oh the break of the day shed its light On our hearts left battered and bruised All the hopes that we'd laid on the home that we'd made Torn to pieces and left in the blue

One by one they all found each other. They were still battered from the recent respawn but there they stood. Their backs were straight, their heads held high. They wouldn’t show weakness, they refused. The brutal deaths shook them to their cores but they were not broken. They weren’t, were they? They were still strong. General Wilbur Soot and his army of children. Their hope, their love, their pride all in one country. There was only one way to save it now. Tommy stepped up. Wilbur wished it were him. 

But my friend with an angry cry Held the weight of our world at his side Took a trembling stand with an arrow in hand As he muttered a final goodbye

He promised that children would never bleed for their land. 

~~~

Masterlist

https://thelullabyer12.tumblr.com/post/639129395216433152/masterlist-of-2021

#itsfundy #its fundy #fundy #wilbur soot #mcyt #mcytblr #dsmp #dsmpblr #dream smp #dsmp angst #eret #the eret

[thegameartist03]

TommyInnit: Dream SMP’s Next Villain?

ok THEORY TIME because i am awake at 11PM. Warning: It’s very long :’]

If you don’t want to read the whole thing, just read the parts in bold.

I think I see what Dream is doing. By isolating Tommy from his friends, by turning him against L’Manburg bit by bit, Dream is building Tommy up to be L’Manburg’s next villain.

It’s no secret that Dream is against L’Manburg. He has plotted its destruction over and over and over again and succeeded every time. Right now he might be all buddy-buddy with Tubbo, but it’s obvious he has some kind of plan. Think about it, when has Dream ever truly respected L’Manburg? “But why would he be so friendly with an invasive country when he could have already taken Tubbo down?” You might ask. May I remind you, this man is a CHAMPION of Minecraft, the 1,000+ IQ player, and he can be however patient he needs to be in order to see his plans through.

Let’s look at some Dream SMP history, shall we?

During the first war for L’Manburg, Dream lulled Wilbur and the rest into a false sense of security, retreating during battle to make it seem like they had won. Then, just when they least expected it, one of their own, Eret, the first traitor of L’Manburg, turned on them. Eret, crowned king by Dream, turned on his own and led to the destruction of L’Manburg. Had Tommy not given up his discs, Dream would have won the war.

Flash forward to the election. Wilbur and Tommy have been exiled from Manburg. Wilbur is slowing losing his mind, Technoblade has yet to truly pick a side. Wilbur takes inspiration from the green boi himself and decides to blow up Manburg and end it once and for all. Dream indulges him, and Dream and the two brothers make a deal to rain chaos and destruction upon the land. Wilbur said it himself, he had a deal with Dream that Dream’s surrender would force Wilbur’s hand towards that button. Tommy tried his hardest to stop Wilbur, but failed in the end. The only thing he managed to do was lead the charge in killing the Withers, a charge that was hindered by attacks from Dream and Technoblade.

Are you seeing some patterns? Cause I sure am.

Each time L’Manburg makes a stand, Dream is there to bring it down. He finds a weak link, someone who he can turn to carry out his will, and he makes sure they betray L’Manburg. First Eret, then Wilbur and Techno. A situation presents itself, Dream takes advantage of it.

So what situation is Dream taking advantage of now? You might think it’s Tommy’s exile, but no. The exile was part of Dream’s plan, already set into motion weeks ago. He only had to wait for the destruction of L’Manburg and the continuous ignorance of a certain goggled friend of his to build up enough pressure and make someone snap. That someone, as Dream probably predicted it would be, was Tommy. When Tommy griefed George’s house, Dream pounced on what could only be the perfect crime.

So, once Tommy was convicted, all Dream had to do was push his advantage on L’Manburg and work towards splitting Tommy off from his friends. Tubbo has a meeting with Dream and asks Tommy to be calm, of course Tommy’s fiery spirit overtakes him and he ruins it, and Dream continues to ramp up the heat. It was only a matter of time before Dream’s threats and the giant obsidian wall, not to mention Tommy’s passion and the memories of war barely two weeks after L’Manburg had been reduced to rubble, pressured Tubbo into agreeing to exile Tommy. Now Tommy is escorted away to a place where no one knows where he is except for Dream and Ghostbur, and no one but Dream and Ghostbur can visit him.

Now, you might be thinking, why does Tommy matter so much to Dream? Why go to all this effort just to single out one annoying (at first) 16 year old who wrote a very inaccurate and borderline offensive book called ‘How to Sex 2’?

Well, let me reveal yet another parallel to you.

Tommy was a founder of L’Manburg. He and Wilbur started their little nation together, fought side by side, were exiled together. Tommy was always second in command, and he was even supposed to be president of L’Manburg after Schlatt’s death. Tommy has sacrificed so much for his country, he has fought and died and lost everything, all for L’Manburg. He and Wilbur are the very spirit of the nation!

But before L’Manburg, before Wilbur, there was the Disc War between Dream and Tommy. Dream’s grudge against Wilbur and L’Manburg is relatively fresh, but the roots of hatred and rivalry between TommyInnit and Dream run much deeper. They have been at each other’s throats for almost as long as the server has lived. This feud even prompted Tommy to revoke his position as president, a position he had dreamed of and thought he would never hold. It’s safe to say that, were one of them given the chance, they would destroy the other without hesitation. But there’s more. Tommy has always stood in Dream’s way of bringing down L’Manburg. First it was giving up his discs to earn independance, then it was Tommy trying to stop Wilbur, then it was Tommy fighting the withers. If Tubbo hadn’t exiled Tommy, he would have teamed up with Technoblade to bring Dream down. Tommy is Dream’s greatest threat.

So Dream has ruined Tommy’s life. He has separated him from his home, his belongings, his friends, even Tubbo. You’d think that would be enough revenge for someone, right?

Wrong.

You see, the traitor parallel is still in play here. Dream’s plans don’t just end with Tommy’s exile. If you’ve been keeping up with the server, you’ll know that every day Dream logs on just to bully Tommy into giving up his armor and tools and blowing them up. Dream, slowly but surely, is stripping Tommy of his pride and his happiness and his sanity. One day into Tommy’s ‘holiday’, he had a plan to fight back. Now, he doesn’t sleep at night, and he is giving up on ever seeing his home. To make matters worse, Dream spends his time with Tommy, and he makes sure he’s ALWAYS spending time with Tommy, gaslighting and manipulating him into thinking his closest friends have abandoned him and no longer care about him.

I know you might think Dream being so friendly with Tommy, helping him get primes, letting him keep his elder chest, building the bridge with him, setting up his party, is a good thing, but it’s yet another part of Dream’s plan. It was most obvious today, when Tommy cursed those he once called friends and leaned on Dream for comfort in his emotional distress, what Dream’s true intentions were. Dream is gradually twisting Tommy into turning against L’Manburg and becoming Dream SMP’s next traitor.

And no one else can see it happening.

Let me ask you, what happened to the past leaders of Manburg and L’Manburg? The most powerful of the server?

Jschlatt had a heart attack and died, Wilbur was run through by Philza, and Technoblade retired (he never dies, but that’s close enough).

Dream’s plans in the past have always led to the death of L’Manburg’s leader and the destruction of the country by a traitor, a puppet dancing on Dream’s strings.

TommyInnit is already tied.

It’s only a matter of time.

Not only do I believe Tommy is going to betray L’Manburg.

I think Tommy is going to try to kill Tubbo.

Feel free to reblog with your thoughts, I know this was a long post but I’d love to hear some other opinions on this.

#dream smp #mcyt #theory #fan theory #dream smp theory #gamma thoughts #writing #they really are doing a fantastic job writing this story

[czarojay]

//This is gonna be a long, probably not properly formatted post, but i just couldn’t help but gush about and ramble about this. Also prepare for a wall of text why everyone is the traitor /hj//

I just have so many thoughts on what happened yesterday. Like all the foreshadowings and plotholes and plotlines have been set in motion, completed or filled. And it makes my little writer soul happy, you know?

It was obvious Techno and Wilbur would be the traitors, since Wilbur multiple times said so himself and Techno literally murdered Tubbo in cold blood. Maybe not so much cold blood cause “hE WAS PEER PRESSURED” and stressed af, but you get the point. 

We knew Philza would join Dream SMP pretty much, since Wilbur showed him the script on stream recently. Also like Traitor Philza anyone? How many posts have you seen of the ultimate traitor being Philza? I have seen lots, but in the end weren’t like half the people traitors? Niki betrayed Pogtopia subtly by leaving and building another city, but i guess this depends on your point of view and opinion, since in the final battle she did fight for Pogtopia. Wilbur was the traitor (everyone knows that) by blowing up Manburg, when it all seemed to go right. Techno was the traitor to Pogtopia, but was also betrayed by Pogtopia. Techno was here to abolish government not make another, but at the first time, he knew what he was getting into. Tommy spoke about taking back L’Manburg for two months, since the election, so I do not know why the surprise. While I agree with Techno that they were just terrorists, because Schlatt was elected, voted, not a tyrant in full meaning of that word (this is so complicated, i love this). Eret was the traitor to Dream for a change, because he wanted to help and join Pogtopia, but was also betrayed by Dream, who had supposedly no way of knowing Eret was going to betray them, he just took the crown and plopped it down on our cottagecore lesbian George, who either sleeps or builds cute houses. 

Also Philza being the one to slay Wilbur is just amazing, because there are so many possibilities motives. Philza said he couldn’t kill Wilbur, but he looked on the people of Manburg, L’Manburg, Pogtopia and Dream SMP, Badlands, he looked at all the people gathered here, staring up at him and he said he couldn’t kill his son. Wilbur said he was the one who destroyed L’Manburg, His L’manburg and ordered Philza to murder him. And he did. But why?

Did Philza kill Wilbur, because he knew, that even with Schlatt gone, Wilbur would continue to cause wars and battles and death and pain? Did Philza kill Wilbur, because he knew that Tommy looks up to Wilbur and wouldn’t be able to not let himself be manipulated? Did Philza kill Wilbur, because he thought nothing else could stop him from becoming a monster? Did Philza kill Wilbur, his son, because he couldn’t bear the thought of not being able to help his son, while one is traumatised, staring at them from where he miraculously survived the explosion and the other one was betrayed, but also a traitor and he just needed to do something? Did Philza kill Wilbur, because he looked at the blown up land and he heard his son begging for death and he at that moment was the only person who could make a change? 

Hell if i know, there are too many posssibilities, but what i DO know is that i’m going to meet theories and conspiracies across my tumblr dash for weeks and I will be able to read all your amazing essays and I just can’t wait for it you know?

Chekhov’s gun. We knew L’Manburg would blow up. It would make no sense for it to not blow up after a month of it being the major plot device, one of the few things to keep it going. It needed to happen or otherwise the plot wouldn’t make sense. If this was a book and not minecraft roleplay, I bet everyone would be angry that the Wilbur character didn’t blow up as he said he would through half of the third book of the series! Sure there would be people happy that he didn’t, but let’s all be honest here, all the AUs would feature him blowing it up, it was really the only way for there not to be a massive plothole.

Tubbo becoming a president wasn’t that to be expected before the stream, but during the conversation with Quackity it was hinted towards. We all thought it would be Tommy who’d been hinted towards in the “You’re never going to be a president, Tommy” speech of Wilbur. And to be fair, he was a president for like 1.2 seconds, before he went back to get his discs which as exasperated leave me, because come on you’ve been at these discs for like almost HALF A YEAR WOW, make me happy cause it means more plot to come, chekhov’s gun right? I’m not sure if this applies here though, since they’ve already been used. We’ll wait and see right? Tubbo became a president like he was supposed to become. We all expected him to become the vice president, since Tommy always titled him his right hand man and the parallels were too strong. From Secretary of State through Schlatt’s right hand man through a traitor to end as the President of L’Manburg. Or New L’Manburg should I say?

And it’s even worse when you think about how Wilbur appointed Tommy KNOWING L’Manburg would blow up in a moment. He wanted to give him everything he could ever want and then steal it away the next second, violently, not leaving a shred of hope for it to return. Because, you see, with the discs? Tommy always could fight for them, steal them, get them back. Physical small objects, but worth so much. But L’Manburg? Tommy just got it back, his second home, his people, his place and Wilbur planned to immediately rip it away violently. Tommy would rage, he’d curse, he’d plan revenge. Which is exactly the reason Tubbo is the better choice to be a president. 

Tubbo doesn’t hold grudges, so unless he’s manipulated, not many wars will be initiated by him. He was one of the people who tried to fight the wither, he was the one who immediately jumped to gathering people and making plans for the future of their country. He was the one who made plans to rebuild their nation stronger and better. He jumped to making and building and communicating rather than fighting, which seems to me like something a good leader would do. 

Wilbur as the president barely did things, mostly used pretty words or fought. Only later in Pogtopia he actually did most of the stuff in their ravine, but he still left grinding and food for Techno and in the end he went insane and no good leader should be an insane one. Schlatt? Schlatt wanted to chop down the trees, kill the animals and destroy the nature. He may have been a better, closer and an actually elected leader compared to Wilbur, but that doesn’t mean he was a good leader. So it is possible Tubbo will be the best leader yet. 

But will he even be able to be truly a leader? Tubbo said himself he’s not sure how the whole president thing goes and he agreed to just call it a friend group, so they’re not demolished by Technoblade again, so he’s never going to be truly a leader, especially since Philza joined and everyone looks up to Philza. They’re not going to have a leader, because Techno will kill anyone who even hints towards it and Dream would probably do that as well. Or so he says, but then he made Dream SMP a kingdom, a proper kingdom with a true king. Because let’s agree, Eret was never a leader before. He was just there, sitting pretty in his forest. There was no true kingdom before, just a group of people who decided to play along for the sake of the spy. But even then, it seems pretty hypocrytical of Dream, doesn’t it? He says down with the government, with organized nations, presidents and leaders and yet...

King George has happened. But at what cost, I would say sadly and possibly crying if I didn’t expect it to happen. It was bound to happen since the very first WHITE FLAGS, TOMORROW, OR YOU’RE DEAD. He’s earned no right to the title, he didn’t participate in this war, he hardly does anything on the server. He’s just an heir. Dream forcefully removed the last monarch, so George could become the king and I feel this is going to be a big thing in future, since it wasn’t that focused on during the last streams. I think so at least? We’ll see. 

There’s just so many things to cover here, possibilities are WILD, the lore is just SO HEAVY and I am Thriving, capital T. But isn’t the whole fandom? We’re all loving it here, right? And I want to write even more, but at the same time, I’ve already got 1.5 k words and I’m afraid nobody will read it if i continue, SO HAVE A GOOD DAY IF YOU READ SO FAR. SUBSCRIBE TO PHILZA.

#dream smp #Philza #Ph1lza #Technoblade #Tommyinnit #Tubbo #Tommy #Wilbur Soo #Wilbur Soot #Jschlatt #Dream #Georgenotfound #Quackity #mcyt #16th november #november 16 #101 talks #ideas and analysis

[evienyx]

DSMP Citizens POV 5: The L'Manburg Captain

DSMPsona created by anon

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DSMP Citizen POV Masterlist

DSMPsona Submission Rules

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Bones was, to say it simply, sick of fighting.

The Guard had been fighting other people’s battles for as long as he could remember. Being raised by two guards on Hypixel, he grew up around fighting. He would be there as his parents broke up violent fights in lobbies, as they enforced the server rules when the admins couldn’t, and he watched as they slowly turned to him to teach him to do the same.

He had become a guard himself, but he grew weary of the fast-paced life of Hypixel. The server was always updating, always changing, and with the highest and fastest-growing population of any server, it was hard to keep track of what was going on.

So, eventually, Bones picked up his things, went to the server hub, and left.

He bounced from one smaller survival server to another, eventually hearing about something called the ‘Dream SMP’ server. Knowing that he had nothing better to do, the Guard decided to join it.

He spawned in a spruce forest, walled in on every side. There were others around the server portal that he had just emerged from, all milling around.

“What’s going on?” Bones asked someone nearby.

The woman he had addressed sighed, and she sounded exhausted. “We’re all just waiting to be greeted.”

After another hour, Dream, a man famous for both his parkour and combat skills, appeared and greeted the newest members of the server. He hadn’t realized that the Dream was the Admin of this world.

Two others stood next to the Admin. One, dressed in regal apparel, wore dark sunglasses over their eyes, a crown resting over their brow. The other wore what looked to be a war uniform. His hands folded behind his back, his gaze steady as it swept over the crowd, he had a firm smile on his face.

The first introduced herself as King Eret, leader of the Greater SMP, while the second called himself President Wilbur Soot, the head of a newly-formed country known as L’Manburg.

The Guard, who considered himself to always be on the side of the people, heard that L’Manburg had recently gained independence after fighting a Revolution in order to “free themselves from tyranny.” The Guard moved into L’Manburg the next day.

He was given a free place to live for a month, giving him time to acclimate to the server, as well as get a job to be able to actually get his own place. Not knowing what else to do, Bones joined the L’Manburg army. He didn’t care for fighting, but it was the only thing that he was good at.

His reputation from Hypixel preceded him, apparently. Being a guard on the biggest server was a very respected career, and Bones found it easy to move up the ranks rather quickly. It probably helped that the L’Manburg forces were rather lacking in terms of officers with actual experience. Guard training on Hypixel was often more intense than many servers’ military training programs, as well, so Bones had no trouble dominating in L’Manburg’s program.

When the elections occurred, the Soldier proudly cast his vote for President Soot and VP Tommy. Bones voted for the people, and Wilbur Soot and TommyInnit were for the people.

The election results, then, were upsetting, to say the least. Bones refused to listen as the new President Schlatt exiled the previous administration and called on the forces of L’Manburg to kill them. He stood in place, nails digging into his palm and screaming profanities as President Soot was bowed down and VP Tommy managed to just barely slip away.

That evening, while on patrol (which he had been demoted to for a month after his show during the inauguration), Bones spotted someone in the treeline.

“Who’s there?” The Soldier called. There was nothing for a moment and Bones aimed his crossbow at the forest. The bushes rustled and then TommyInnit stepped out, his hands raised above his head.

“Vice President?” Bones asked, lowering the crossbow. The leaves shifted again and another emerged. The Soldier blinked, shock holding him in place. “Technoblade?”

Technoblade raised an eyebrow and glanced down at VP Tommy. “Do I need to kill this guy?”

VP Tommy shook his head emphatically. “I don’t think so.” He turned back to Bones. “Do we need to kill you?”

“Are you starting a rebellion?” Bones asked, ignoring the question. A nod was given in response, and his shoulders sagged in relief. “Can I join?”

VP Tommy grinned up at Technoblade. “Told you!” The teenager looked back at the Soldier. “Go ask Niki! Wil said she’s making a rebellion inside Manburg, he sent her the Pogtopia coordinates!”

Bones nodded. “You best be going. I’m meant to be on patrol.”

VP Tommy lazily saluted and bolted off into the woods. Technoblade stared at Bones, gave him a curt nod, and then was gone as well.

The next day, after getting the location of the rebellionfrom Niki Nihachu, Bones gathered his valuables, his beloved dog Rosa, and ran. As he wove through the trees, following the beeping of the communicator to reach the correct coordinates, the Soldier wondered if he would be demoted for this.

He knocked on the rock wall the way that he had been shown to at the bakery, and it slid open to reveal an exhausted-looking President Soot.

The man’s eyes lit up when they landed on him.

“Captain Bones!” President Soot exclaimed, reaching out a hand to shake it firmly. Bones ignored how shaky the other’s fingers were. “What brings you here?” He paused. “Are you here to capture us? Because we’re not on L’Manburg land.”

Bones shook his head. “I heard you’re starting a rebellion?”

Soot’s eyes widened, and then he grinned and ushered the Captain inside.

Pogtopia was a ravine with grayed stones that reflected the mood of all who lived there. Bones started teaching a combat course for those who didn’t know how to fight, and the determination that shone in the eyes of teenagers who were just now choosing to pick up a weapon made him wonder when it had all come to this.

The Captain’s days in Pogtopia were not particularly memorable. He watched as President Soot slowly delved deeper and deeper in paranoia, to the point where he started accusing people like Bones, who had been in the rebellion since the beginning, of being spies all along.

Bones would dig his fingers in the fur of his dog on days like these and remember the inspiring leader that President Soot had once been.

Then, they won against Manburg on November 16th, and President Soot blew up the country before dying himself, and the Captain watched as President Tubbo stood in front of the people of L’Manburg and made promises of a brighter future.

And for a bit of time, it seemed like that could be true.

Then, though, as all good things do, the happiness came to an abrupt end as it was announced that VP Tommy had griefed the vacation home of GeorgeNotFound, the recently-crowned king of the Greater SMP. Dream, the Admin of the server himself, offered President Tubbo a choice: Exile TommyInnit, or their two factions would go to war.

The people of L’Manburg were all generally on the same page, screaming in the streets about how they were ready to fight again. TommyInnit was one of the founding members of the country, he had been there since the beginning. For Bones, though, above all else, it was about the fact that VP Tommy was a teenager. The Captain took to the streets with the others, calling out their readiness to go to war.

When VP Tommy was exiled, then, and sent off to some far-off island, Bones was back in the streets again, yelling at the top of his lungs about the injustice done against a child, thanks to the work of a foreign power.

“L’Manburg has never bowed down at the will of Dream before!” He exclaimed. “We aren’t going to start now!” His call was echoed by those around him, as the people called for justice to be served.

Weeks passed with the people of L’Manburg being tense and angry, the air stewing with conflict. On the eve of January 5th, the people were gathered and listened as President Tubbo, with VP Tommy somehow by his side, explained that the next day, their country would be destroyed.

That night, Bones moved Rosa and all the things that he actually cared about to his assigned tent at the campsite offered up to the L’Manburg residents. As people trickled into the camp, the Captain took anyone who wanted to try and fight the next day and continued the training sessions he’d led back in Pogtopia. There was a greater level of melancholy that had fallen over the people, but they listened nonetheless, and Bones taught and taught until his eyes were stinging from unshed tears and his muscles burned all through his body.

“Get some sleep,” President Tubbo said, joining Bones on the makeshift stage he had taken so that the whole crowd that he was training could see him. “You all are going to need it. Thank you for working so hard to fight for our country.” The teenager wiped at his eyes, and Bones realized through his exhaustion that the president was crying, too. “For what it’s worth, I’m sorry.” President Tubbo nodded to the Captain, stepped off the stage, and was gone.

Doomsday was, to say the least, a disaster. L’Manburg was blown down to bedrock, there was nothing anyone could do, and by the end of it, Bones stood with the people of a ruined country and looked down at what remained of their home: A hole, one so deep and wide that nothing would ever be built there again.

King Eret stood next to President Tubbo and VP Tommy, overlooking the destruction.

“L’Manburg is gone,” President Tubbo finally said, addressing the crowd. “There will be no rebuilding from this. I’m so sorry, everyone.” Tears were streaming down his face. “L’Manburg was meant to be a safe place, somewhere that people could come to be happy and free. Maybe that was how it was in the beginning, but we lost our way. Maybe in another world, things could have been different.” The teenager laughed wetly, his eyes red as he turned to look at the people. “We did it wrong, but, hey, at least we tried.” He sniffed. “Maybe next time, we’ll do it better.” President Tubbo stopped talking, and everyone was silent for a moment. Then, King Eret began speaking.

“The campsite will remain set up for three more months. You may stay there while you search for a new place to live, whether that be somewhere on this server or on a different one entirely,” King Eret explained, her hands folded neatly behind her back. They glanced back at the crater, and Bones swore he saw a single tear trickle down their face. “L’Manburg was an inspiration to all of the server,” King Eret said. “It will be mourned for centuries.”

Bones, now a veteran of a fallen nation, stayed on the server. He found a piece of land, outside of the borders of the Greater SMP, and settled down there. He learned to farm from a family that lived within the Greater SMP’s territory, and purchased livestock and seeds so he could begin a new life.

The Veteran, with Rosa at his side, settled down for a quieter life. Maybe things would be better now, he supposed. Maybe here, in land that belonged to no one but himself, with no elections to worry about or wars to fight, Bones would be all right. Maybe now, finally, the server could begin to heal, to eventually rise up and fight against the tyranny of their Admin so that peace could finally reign.

(When the news came in on the communicators, then, that Dream had been captured and imprisoned within the maximum security cell of Pandora’s Vault, Bones joined the people in the street, cheering until his voice gave out and drinking until he passed out from happiness.

Then, he buried his face in Rosa’s fur and let out a genuine laugh for the first time in months.

Finally, finally, things could get better.)

#dsmp #dream smp #dsmp citizen pov #dsmp citizens memes #wilbur soot #tommyinnit #eret #tubbo #mcyt #dsmpsona #the lmanburg captain #this series is just #watch evie try to learn how to write concisely #and fail miserably half the time #anyway i think im gonna actually start putting all of these in a thing on ao3 #just to keep track of them more easily #i know i have the masterlist but you know how it is #anyway i really liked writing this one #bones is a much fun character #also WHOA #the first gendered dsmpsona #crazy

[reydelcastill0]

He's Like a Fool,

TommyInnit is tired of war. He's been at war for years now. Various different wars. He just... He just wants to grab Tubbo and go away. For a bit. Forever. It doesn't matter. War already took so much, so he's going to start taking back.

War takes a lot from life. It takes away homes, it takes away fun, it takes away safety, and it takes away friends. It especially takes away friends. When the SMP war became full blown, everyone was taken by surprise. At least, all of the L'Manbergians seemed to be that way.

Wilbur knew tensions were rising, they had been for over 19 years, his issues with the Dream SMP predating Dream's reign over it. It wasn't that he had conflictions with the SMP, but his own SMP was too close for their liking. When Dream took over some couple years prior to the war, he was only what? Nineteen? Twenty? Things started kicking off and for the younger L'Manbergians, Wilbur hoped Dream didn't escalate problems. War took away safety from him

Fundy, age 17 when Dream took control over the Dreami people (he had to take over the place he was named after, huh?),  didn't expect the war to get to the lengths it did. He was 19 when the war really kicked off, but Eret's betrayal stung worse than the wounds he got during it. War took away friends from him.

Eret really didn't lose much, but you can see the regret in his shadows. Their castle remains empty from true friends. Dream and the other Dreami don't care for her. They gave him a crown and called him king, but he's not anyone's king. She gained so much from her betrayal, but the emptiness of her castle is a testament to the friends she doesn't have. When the election kicked off, his remorse finally caught up to him. They watched Tommy and Wilbur get banished and their heart ached, yearning to help the two. War took away friends from Eret.

Tommy and Tubbo, it would be an injustice to separate them, because war affected them the same. They were so happy before the war started. They had so many friends, both at the Dream SMP and the L'Manberg SMP. Yeah, Quackity came around and got the two into a bit of trouble, but the trouble they got into after joining L'Manberg was much bigger than anything else. They didn't realize until it was too late.

Tubbo almost died in an explosion. Tommy almost bled to death after his duel with Dream. But they got their independence, so war was not an issue. And new people joined, too! War took nothing from them.

They still had the friends that mattered. Being children, nothing, not even war, could take away their happiness. Tubbo doesn't even feel like they lost their home. It burned down, but they had L'Manberg and they had Tommy so it didn't bother them. Tommy, by Wilbur's side, still felt safe, too. If he had the people he cared about still, then war didn't take anything away from him.

Both he and Tubbo were naive to have that sort of mindset. But as the youngest of the SMPs? Could you blame them? They thought they had it good. Dream was their friend again, too, Tommy especially falling into old habits with Dream.

He remembered when he was young. He and Tubbo had been in their own little world. Then Dream stopped by and became their friends. He was so cool, saying how he'd take over the SMP and be a very cool ruler. Tommy admired him, but then Dream took his discs.

The Disc Wars almost took a friend away from him. Almost. Tommy figures that if he and Dream are friends again, the Disc Wars didn't take anything from him. The world was mending.

And then the Election broke it all over again. Schlatt won, Quackity and George proudly standing by his side. Schlatt banished Tommy and Wilbur, keeping Tubbo with him, no doubt as a way to have the upperhand. Without George, Tubbo, and Fundy, the power Schlatt has would be null. Dream doesn't want to hurt his friends, and neither does Tommy, so the two have to stand back and watch Schlatt make his decrees from the sidelines.

Tommy gets Dream's full support, and now his other brother Technoblade is here. He feels safe with Techno around, more safe than he did with Wilbur, his brother, the former President of L'Manberg— 

A man reduced to an embodiment of stress. War takes away sanity, too, Tommy learns in the caverns of Pogtopia. Wilbur, publicly denounced by his son. Wilbur, banished from his own land, unable to aid the young members who got left behind. Wilbur, betrayed by his son's best friend whom he was beginning to think of as a son. Wilbur, who lost a nation he has built from the ground up, dedicating his life to it for over two decades (even at the expense of fatherhood, which the consequences of are now taking effect).

Yeah, Tommy only trusts Technoblade to keep him safe, because Wilbur can't even keep himself sane. Tommy, proud as he is, tells everyone that all he needs is Technoblade now, because war hasn't taken anything away from him! Proof? War gave him The Blade.

But Tommy is too proud to tell the truth. This Civil War has taken away so much more than what he's ever gained in life. It took away Tubbo. His Tubbo, his best friend, his true brother.

Losing Tubbo helps Tommy realize that war has taken away everything from him and that he never truly had the things he thought he did. Home? Tommy's home was L'Manberg. Fun? Tommy lost that once the Dream-L'Manberg War started. Safety? Tommy probably lost that back during the Disc Wars. Friends? Tommy has lost all his friends, even if he still has his brothers. Sanity? Tommy can barely keep it. With Wilbur growing crazy, Technoblade is the only decent player interaction Tommy gets.

But war also takes away family. Family is what you make it, sometimes blood members not even being something close to friends. Tommy looks at Wilbur and Fundy as a prime example of that. Looking back on it, Tommy sees how Fundy would always seem like he was just... Acting out of obligation. Fundy denouncing Schlatt shows just how... Sometimes there is no love for your 'family', because sometimes your family is in someone else. Tommy learns later that Fundy even refers to Schlatt as dad, looking at him fondly and being treated by the man like a son. Wilbur stopped doing that in later years. He loved Fundy, but his love for L'Manberg was greater.

So if family is what you make it, then war took family away, too, because Tommy's true family was Tubbo. Yeah, Tommy has his older brothers, all sharing at least one parent, but Tubbo... His bond with Tubbo was beyond any other bond he has. Tubbo is Tommy's family, a brother even if he says Tubbo is more like a cousin.

Tommy just didn't think war would take Tubbo away from him... But then one day, he sees Tubbo again, properly this time. Every time he's seen Tubbo, they're by Schlatt, looking uncomfortable and frightened all the same, a false smirk on their lips so Schlatt is none the wiser about the truth. Except, this time, Tubbo is alone and they look so terribly sad.

"Tubbo...?" Tommy is unsure, disbelief evident in his tone. Since Schlatt took over Manberg, Tubbo lost the light in their eyes. Tubbo is as good as a corpse—  no, that's too mean and he doesn't even want to think like that (Tubbo is worth more than a corpse could ever hope to be).

"I— Tommy?" Tears are pricking at Tubbo's eyes (Tommy will deny the same is happening to his own). "Wilbur, too..." Tubbo is starting to tense, as if ready to be scolded or yelled at. They stand up straight like they're getting ready to put on a facade. The action is done easily and clearly, it's instinctual. Tommy wants to ask them about it, ask if Schlatt did that, but Wilbur talks first.

"Tubbo...?" He's choosing his words, "... Are you okay?" That's all he asks. Tommy knows Wilbur is trying to be more mindful of his words. He wants Tubbo to know he cares because he failed to let Fundy know and now Fundy thinks more highly of Schlatt. Wilbur won't make that mistake with Tubbo, not now.

That's all Wilbur asks, but that's all it takes for Tubbo to start sobbing, their hands flinching. They're aching to hold someone and Tommy, aching to touch his best friend, runs to them and hugs them. And that's all it takes for Tommy to start sobbing, too. Wilbur slowly goes to hug the boys, apprehensive because this is their moment, but he wants to comfort them. They're so young and he took away their youth from them.

"I—  I should've gone with you guys," Tubbo. That's all they say. No one says anything, but later Tommy promises to tell Tubbo: "I should've taken you with us."

Tubbo has to leave soon after, but Tommy asks if they can meet up again. Tubbo smiles, doubtful, but they agree to it no less. And Tommy, like a fool, will always believe Tubbo.

Tubbo didn't lie though, he always shows up. And Tommy likes to think he has Tubbo again, but he knows how war works by this point. It could take Tubbo away from him again. And it does, because war never really gave Tubbo back.

Despite telling Tommy they will go back, Tubbo one day stops appearing. And so close to the day that Pogtopia plans on taking a big step against Schlatt. Tommy knows it's intentional, because Schlatt is smart. Pogtopia underestimated the tyrant, for he took an even bigger step first. He took the step when he kept Tubbo and, as a bonus for his decision, Schlatt got to take another step.

Tommy sneaks into Manberg, careful not to let anyone see him. If George or Quackity see him, he will be dead on the spot. But for Tubbo? He'll risk his life an infinite amount of times. He should've been risking his life for Tubbo. Instead, he selfishly had Tubbo go to him...

Tommy makes it to the White House and sees Tubbo with Schlatt, George and Quackity standing beside them, guarding them. Quackity looks uncomfortable, Tubbo looks scared, Schlatt looks angry, and George seems indifferent. He learns why quickly, because Schlatt's booming voice makes it to him.

Schlatt is yelling at Tubbo. Schlatt is yelling at Tubbo.

This fills Tommy with unbridled rage for two reasons. One.) This is how Schlatt normally treats Tubbo (Tubbo said it themself) and he's finally witnessing it for himself. Two.) Schlatt's words are clear enough for Tommy to know what he's saying, and Tommy's mad at himself because Schlatt is yelling at Tubbo for sneaking off at night. Sneaking off to see Tommy. Schlatt found out, but he suspects that maybe the goat-man knew all along.

Tommy sees Tubbo defer to Schlatt and he so desperately wants to go save his friend, but George spots him and pulls out his sword. Tommy is gone before Schlatt can see him.

Tommy knows he can't go back now, not that they know he snuck in. Patrols will be more frequent, so if he goes back, it has to mean something. He decides not to tell Wilbur about this, even if it could bite them back later.

Maybe, he won't ever tell Wilbur. And that thought opens up an idea that Tommy hadn't ever realized could be an option. Running away... He could... Run away and never look back and he could be happy. He and Tubbo could be happy, if he can get Tubbo to run away with him.

Tommy knows it's a bad idea. Pogtopia needs him, his brothers need him, his friends need him, but Tubbo needs him, too. And Tubbo needs Tommy more than everyone else (; Tommy needs Tubbo just the same).

It's better for them. War has taken away so much from them, but... Well if he isn't around war what can it do then? War... Is so tiring. He's lost so much of his youth to it and he'll continue to lose more if he doesn't step away from it.

He's dead set on his plan. Technoblade has farmed so many potatoes since he joined Pogtopia that Tommy could take some without it being noticeable (though Technoblade would notice). If he gathers enough materials, he could take some wood, beds, an ender chest, torches, and stone. Or the tools to get wood and stone, so he supposes that could wait.

He doesn't need much to survive out there with Tubbo. If they play their cards right, the two of them could survive easily.

Tommy doesn't think much else through. Where would they go? What would they do? Would they ever go back? What about everyone else? Tommy doesn't think about how Wilbur would break even more upon the realization that Tommy and Tubbo are gone. Pogtopia wouldn't survive much longer without Tommy. Dream won't have his little champion who does his dirty work.

Tommy isn't thinking about much, but he is thinking about what it means to live a life outside of war. He has memories of a time like that, but he can't remember what it felt like. He can't remember what it felt like to be having fun or to be calm. Tommy yearns for peace, and he has to hope Tubbo still does.

He prewrites the letter he'll leave for Pogtopia. He plans on taking Tubbo there after (if, actually) he convinces the older boy to run away. The letter is addressed to Wilbur, but it's intended for Techno, too. He just doesn't want Wilbur to think it's his fault Tommy is running away. It's Tommy's fault. If he and Dream didn't start the Disc Wars and if he didn't join L'Manberg, maybe he wouldn't have gotten roped into such a big mess. Or maybe they still would've.

He wonders... Where would he be if he sided with Dream? What would he be doing if he stayed with Quackity in his cartel? Would Schlatt be his role model if the man wasn't banned from the Dream SMP? He wonders, but it gets him nowhere. What matters is now.

He sneaks into Manberg again, even more cautious and tries to find Tubbo. He eventually finds Tubbo and Schlatt together again, alone without the others... It's suspicious so Tommy is constantly looking around. He wouldn't be surprised if this was a ploy to sneak up on Tommy.

Eventually Schlatt leaves Tubbo alone, and Tommy sees him breathe a sigh of relief and relax his shoulders. Tommy sneaks over to him and whispers.

"Tubbo, Tubbo can I talk to you?" He asks. Tubbo stiffens up again and doesn't relax.

"Not now." Tubbo says quietly and firmly. He doesn't turn to Tommy and is about to walk off.

"Tubbo... Please can we—  Actually," he pauses to think. Maybe Tubbo is being watched. "—Can you meet me later at the dirt shed?"

Tubbo is hesitant, but he agrees to it no less. And Tommy, like a fool, will always believe Tubbo.

[Because He Is]

[But He Isn't]

#akobj fic #choose your own adventure #you only have two options tho lol so #tommyinnit #tubbo #dream smp #l'manberg #manberg #pogtopia #georgenotfound #jschlatt #dreamwastaken #wilbur soot #the eret #quackity #technoblade #angst #angst with a happy ending #angst with a sad ending #two endings

[findingjoynweirdstuff]

Dream SMP Recap (January 18/2021) - Founding of the Syndicate

Technoblade decides to start a new organization of anarchists in the Arctic and makes plans to find new recruits. He’s not the only one seeking recruits, though, as both Snowchester and the Eggpire attempt to gain Foolish’s favor, with varying degrees of success.

Puffy’s Hero Arc continues as the server also welcomes its second new member: HannahxxRose! 

---

- Techno wants to speak with Phil alone, without Ranboo. He wants more people to join him in the fight for anarchy, and wishes to create a collective of like-minded individuals to help him. He feels that there are other people who hold his beliefs, but they aren’t aware of possible alternatives to the governments that exist. 

He wants to form an association of anarchists to unite all the anarchists on the server.

He says he doesn’t think L’manburg was the only government. He’s heard rumors of other factions...

Techno doesn’t feel like they can trust Ranboo yet. They aren’t sure if he shares their beliefs, and he just hasn’t been there long enough to gain that sort of trust.

- Ranboo is nervous about being kicked out if he tells the truth, but decides to tell Techno and Phil about his memory issues, of him blowing up the Community House, and the fact that he’d had one of the discs

Techno says he doesn’t care about the Community House or the discs. He just thinks Ranboo’s a little weird, but they wouldn’t kick Ranboo out over it. 

- Techno leaves and shows Phil the stronghold and End Portal. They call it a summoning circle and decide to make it into a cool table for their headquarters.

- DreamXD comes on for the first time since the Dreamon Hunters streams and destroys the End Portal, but is convinced to place it back after Techno and Phil reassure him that they have no plans to ignite it. 

He calls himself “the protector” and says that he’s a separate entity from Dream.

- Techno and Phil continue to develop their plans, aiming to form a syndicate. The Syndicate is to remain secret. Techno wants to do some recruiting for more members. 

He doesn’t see Ranboo as a reliable-enough possible recruit. 

- Foolish logs on and wants a lot of gold.

- The Dream SMP has another new member! HannahxxRose on Twitch!

- She gets a welcome from Purpled and Karl. Antfrost and HBomb say hi as well.

- Purpled tours her around.

- Meanwhile, Tubbo wants to work on the nuclear weapons.

- Purpled explains that Hannah can build her house wherever, but Purpled’s the guy she’s got to go to to pay for the land plot. He also shows her his real estate office.

- Foolish wants 292 blocks of gold. Tubbo tells him to come to Snowchester. 

- Tubbo says that he’s welcome to come hang out in Snowchester any time if he wants to be a part of something.

- Hannah plants “Hannah’s Rose” on the boardwalk.

- She then goes off and explores on her own.

- Foolish decides to join Snowchester!

- Puffy gives Hannah a Netherite axe and shovel as a gift. In return, Hannah gives her one of her roses.

- Puffy tells her how to cleanse in Prime water after touching the Blood Vines.

- Then, Puffy and Hannah go into Ponk’s Maze out of curiosity and get trapped in it. Hannah wanders through and wonders whether she should pull the lever to sacrifice the animals. She decides not to and escapes up the staircase.

Puffy has some extra difficulty getting out.

Puffy: “It looked like I was in Heaven. There was no god there.”

- Puffy explains the routes through the Nether and shows her the path to the Guardian Farm and Tubbo’s Jungle Base, then later Sam’s base.

- Finally, Puffy shows her the L’manburg Crater before taking her to see the Egg.

- Later, Puffy checks on the L’manburg Flag and the vines that have spread at the bedrock. She wants to create a hidden refuge somewhere.

She creates a bunker underneath Eret’s Castle.

- Puffy ponders to herself about her loyalties again. Everyone around her seems to have gone off the rails. She no longer has a duckling. The Eggpire’s plans are concerning.

Perhaps it’s time she talks to Techno?

- Puffy also reflects on how Hannah’s only just joined and is thus innocent. But who knows how long that will last? 

She takes the rose Hannah gave her and goes to the bunker to write in the Captain’s Log.

“I’m forgetting what it means to be a knight, but maybe it’s more important to learn to be a hero first.”

- Puffy heads back to the Crater. For all that Tommy’s been through, he’s come back from all of it. 

“We have an empty table with what feels like...empty knights. And honestly, even though I wasn’t part of L’manburg...I feel something more when I come here than when I go to the Castle."

“I’m not just a knight to Eret or the kingdom. I’m gonna try to be a knight to everybody.”

- She feels like Eret hasn’t done much as king to actually protect anybody.

- Bad logs on to check the Egg. He says his disguise needs to be updated or else it might fade. He also needs to be careful with people like Technoblade around...he has a plan to put up propaganda everywhere.

- He observes that the Vines in the Crater aren’t spreading as fast as he thought they would be, and theorizes that without the Egg’s direct presence there, their growth has been slower. He wonders if there’s a way to remedy that.

- Bad speaks with Foolish with the intentions of converting him to the Eggpire.

- Foolish tells Bad he’s already joined up with Tubbo in Snowchester. Bad asks which faction it is, and Foolish skirts around an answer. Bad is confident that the Egg might be able to convince him otherwise and leads Foolish to the Egg Room. 

- Foolish asks what the Egg hatches? Bad says he doesn’t know, but it probably doesn’t matter. Isn’t it nice and red? Foolish says he’s “more of a green guy.”

- Foolish says he wants to sleep on it. Bad suggests he literally sleeps on the Egg. 

- They run into Antfrost on the boardwalk as Bad leads Foolish to the green flower in the Casino. Bad says he doesn’t actually like the green flower, now that he thinks about it...something about it feels off to him. Foolish says he likes this one better.

- Bad tries to convince Foolish by pointing out that Puffy is in the Eggpire, but Foolish says that he wants to have his own space away from his father and not be in the same faction.

- Bad shows Ant the possible Eggpire flag design. Foolish points out that his eyes are bright green, which is why he’s more favorable to the color. It’s a fashion thing! Gotta stick to the color scheme.

- Foolish lets slip that he thinks the Egg is stupid. There’s an awkward recover and he then leaves the Eggpire members to continue with their propaganda.

- After working with Antfrost on the propaganda, Bad decides that he’s comfortable enough that he can reveal his true form to Antfrost. He takes off his disguise. Antfrost observes that the Egg has transformed him, but doesn’t seem disturbed by it.

- The Eggpire is merely a stepping stone for Bad. This isn’t about the Eggpire. It isn’t about Bad or Antfrost or any person in particular.

It’s only about the Egg.

---

Upcoming Events:

- Tommy and Tubbo confront Dream (Wednesday)

- Futuristic Tales From the SMP Episode (Saturday)

- Nuclear Weapons Test (January 26th)

#dream smp #dream smp recaps

[proffbon]

Eret and Dream: "Used" might be a better word for it. Dream played to Eret's want to win and want for the server to be peaceful again. They were a puppet with no real power. Dream isolated them: the traitor working for Dream, so no one trusted them. Eret says that Dream promised them land, the kingship, and friends. Later it's clear that's not true. Also I think Dream knew about Eret's eyes and probably used that as leverage. It's a "friendship" that stops when Eret doesn't do what Dream wants.

Hmmm, maybe, maybe. Even if “used” doesn’t strike me as the right word still it’s much closer to how I saw it. It just that unlike, for example, in Tubbo’s situation where Dream forced him into a choice of exiling Tommy or facing war, in Eret’s case it doesn’t even really seem like a choice and more of a proposal/deal which Eret could’ve easily refused if his ambitions didn’t cloud his judgment. And as far as his power as king goes there were no real restrictions on it, he could do whatever he wanted, Dream SMP members regarded Eret as a friend and respected him as a king, the only real issue with Dream was the fact that Eret was openly pro-Pogtopian which clashes with nation’s agenda. And Eret’s whole kingship is based on how much his people (which were mostly anti-Pogtopians or neutrals) respected him.

#dream smp #dsmp #the eret #eret #c!eret #dreamwastaken #c!dream