#and FUNDAMENTALLY MISUNDERSTANDS CROWLEYS CHARACTER | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

felicitywilds · 8 months

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been seein a few popular posts about what could Happen in season 3 that i think are kind of missing the mark a bit when it comes to crowley and aziraphale’s characters and both of their approaches to their relationship? so heres my take

aziraphale is a fighter: all throughout the book and season 1, he’s done his best to fight for what he thinks is right. the fatal flaw in this position is that he only ever does it within the confines of his faith and position as an angel: protesting punishing job until God’s Orders are cited; excusing his eating habits to gabriel by saying it helps him ‘blend in’ on earth; even after an entire day of listing things he wouldn’t be able to enjoy on earth anymore, crowley was only able to convince aziraphale to help him raise the antichrist by framing it as ‘thwarting wiles’ (ie. doing his job). aziraphale has always had a lot of conflict with how his and heaven’s ideals align-- this is why aziraphale went to heaven, so he could make the rules he’s so hesitant to break work for him instead of against him.

crowley on the other hand, is a flier: at the slightest sign of trouble he can’t fix, he flees. no, he does not want to dismantle the systems of heaven and hell, he wants to run away forever and never think about them again! he’s canonically tried to do this at least four times! but the fatal flaw in this position is that it means he sees everything he’s built and collected in 6000 years as disposable, which is not unlike how heaven and hell also think about the earth. he’s built a fragile, peaceful existence for himself, but is willing to run away and dump it all the second its peace and fragility is threatened by something he can’t control.

understanding both of these attitudes makes the middle ground where they realize their mistakes and come together again painfully obvious (imo): its earth! literally the ground in the middle between heaven and hell. crowley and aziraphale both already know that the other is worth protecting-- aziraphale wants to go to heaven so being together won’t be against the rules, and crowley wants to run away so heaven and hell can’t destroy them for being together-- so the revelation that needs to be reached in season 3 is that their lives and their history and their home is worth protecting too. beelzebub and gabriel had ‘heaven/hell is wherever you are’, but that kind of attitude (even ‘to the world’/they are each others world) doesn’t work for crowley and aziraphale because they spent 6000 years building something that makes simply being together synonymous with being on earth.

after all, the Really Big One is going to be all of us vs. all of them-- heaven and hell against all of humanity. when crowley and aziraphale have this exchange in the book and season 1, i fully believe that both them assume that when they say “us”, it means heaven and hell-- even after everything that happened, they’re still aligning themselves against the earth and the history they have there. which is why, after all their wonderful and inevitable character development in season 3, they’re going to realize that “us” actually means humanity.

#good omens #good omens season 2 #good omens spoilers #good omens meta #good omens analysis #gomens #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #aziraphale #anthony j crowley #by me #this was made about Two Posts i saw that annoy me to no end #the first has like. Thousands of notes #and FUNDAMENTALLY MISUNDERSTANDS CROWLEYS CHARACTER #HES A COWARD NOT AN ANARCHIST #he wants to run away at the bandstand #and then later in the book shop before az calls heaven #and then again when gabriel shows up #and AGAIN at the end of s2 #not ONCE has his response to heaven been 'fight back and take it down'#and the SECOND post is about az needing to choose between saving earth and saving crowley #which is a fundamental misunderstanding that crowley and earth are on different sides #its NEVER going to be crowley vs earth #crowley IS earth #its always always always going to be crowley and earth vs HEAVEN #their love is the most powerful thing in the universe so it will be easy actually for the two of them to beat both heaven and hell #ok thats all my thoughts i think #so can we stop blaming aziraphale for him being the only one with a flawed way of thinking #thanks :)#ok actually thinking about it more: both of their stances are sooooo reactionary to what heaven or hell could do to them

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ihamtmus · 8 months

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the majority of the people who were upset with aziraphale for lying to crowley at the bandstand in season 1 did not understand his character or his situation. and many of them are upset with him again after season 2. because they still don't understand his character or his situation. btw.

#good omens #i have so many thoughts like you wouldn't believe #i don't share them on here much but that post about working in aziraphale apologism mines got to me #like yeah i'm an aziraphale apologism miner and i should dig a little #i might start with season 1 bandstand scene because so many people fundamentally misunderstand what happened there #there's lots of people who relate to crowley out there but you guys should maybe try to relate to aziraphale a little idk #and see things from his perspective #i have never ever seen a character more relatable than aziraphale tbh and it's a bit funny to see how many people just don't get him #my post #i might have to elaborate later because i have a lot to say #but the point is no he did NOT ''betray'' crowley at the bandstand #because at no point was he working with him for their own side until he explicitly defied orders in heaven send post

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venus-light · 9 months

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Good Omens S2’s ending is so agonising, but I do think it’s going to make Aziraphale’s development significantly more impactful in S3! As a second act this has every painful, fascinating ingredient that made Zuko’s arc in ATLA so outstanding, and Aziraphale’s core conflict/fatal flaw draws from the heart of his character!

He loves Crowley deeply but he’s still clinging to Heaven’s brainwashing, and he’s never actually treated Crowley as an equal or sought to understand Crowley’s perspective yet.

Aziraphale still seems to believe Crowley is just a ‘lost, confused angel’, rather than recognising what Crowley is actually doing: rejecting the system entirely and trying to do good on his own terms. Aziraphale still believes the desire to be Angelic and the desire to be good to others are the same thing, therefore if Crowley is good (as he’s shown himself to be) he must be secretly want to be an Angel and is betraying that whenever he argues against Heaven.

Aziraphale still hasn’t listened when Crowley explains over and over again that he DOESN’T WANT TO BE AN ANGEL. He’s still desperate for Heaven’s validation, even after he chose to leave, and there’s a deep void in his identity! He wants so desperately to be seen as “Good” (regardless of the actual morality of his actions) that it’s used over and over again to coerce and manipulate him! He also wants desperately for Crowley to be “Good” too, because at this point Aziraphale couldn’t ever let himself trust or accept Crowley if he wasn’t.

Aziraphale’s ‘angelic superiority’ is still constantly used to prop up his own identity, and he still considers deviance from Heaven (both in himself and others) as something shameful, embarrassing and in need of being ‘Corrected’. He also still believes Crowley needs/wants to be “Forgiven” by Heaven and that angels are inherently superior to everyone else!

Aziraphale’s default response to suffering being to make it about Heavenly purity rather than empathising with others also makes him extremely blind/self-centred in some situations. He’s proven that he’s willing to adopt empathy - the force that drives Crowley to compassion and forgiveness - if it helps to do good for others, but it’s still a very undeveloped skill in him.

At the start of this season Aziraphale lets Crowley sleep in his car for God’s sake, and apparently only calls Crowley when he wants something! He takes Crowley’s devotion to him for granted, and dismisses Crowley’s feelings and perspective on Gabriel instantly! Whenever they disagree on anything Aziraphale just assumes that he is Good and Crowley is Evil, therefore Crowley’s perspective isn’t worth taking seriously. And Crowley loves Aziraphale so much and is so afraid of losing him that he just… concedes. Over and over again. And keeps on forgiving him without Aziraphale ever realising how deep he’s cutting Crowley. Even now, Aziraphale still sees everything as a dichotomy between “Good” and “Evil”, “Angelic” and “Demonic”, with no middle ground or space outside of it. A worldview that fundamentally misunderstands Crowley’s entire life, moral compass and identity.

Aziraphale does love Crowley, but he still hasn’t reckoned with Heaven’s brainwashing. He still won’t ever be able to understand Crowley’s perspective until he gets the outcome he thought would fix everything, and realises that it won’t.

#good omens #thank you for all your comments & thoughts everyone!! <33 #good omens 2 #good omens spoilers #good omens season two #good omens season 2 #Aziraphale #crowley #ineffable husbands #good omens s2 #venus writes #neil gaiman #terry pratchett #zuko #atla #atla zuko #good omens 2 spoilers #good omens season 2 spoilers

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actual-changeling · 4 months

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Crowley does NOT want to run - A Summary

A small while ago, I wrote an extensive meta post about why Crowley's primary survival response is not flight, why exactly it is fight instead, and how it shows up throughout the centuries.

You can find the original post here, which is quite long but goes into way more detail than I will here.

I'm frankly getting tired of people claiming that Crowley always wants to flee, that this makes Aziraphale "right" in going back to heaven, and using it generally put Crowley down. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of who he is as a character and what that means for their relationship.

So, because long posts can scare people off, I will provide a summary.

Now, let's get into it, here are the reasons why Crowley is not a runner:

the Starmaker fought for their stars and against heaven in the revolution, which ended up with them falling and Crowley the demon emerging

by opposing existing rules and defying heaven's authority, he automatically started a fight; you cannot not fight under those circumstances

he continues to question God and defies both heaven's and hell's commands repeatedly, see Job, the subtextual implications that he saved children from the flood, hanging out with Jesus and taking him traveling, proposing the Arrangement, and acting based on what HE decides is the moral thing to do over and over

just because a fight is not physical doesn't mean it isn't one

Crowley's first response to the impeding apocalypse was to start coming up with a plan to stop it, Aziraphale had to be talked into it and only agreed for selfish reasons

to quote myself: The reason why both heaven and hell absolutely loathe him is not because he is a runner; it's because he constantly and consistently defies them. He fights.

Crowley wants to deal with the Gabriel problem and attempts to come up with plans over and over again while Aziraphale shoots him down and solves exactly nothing

Crowley is the one who wants to fight the demons outside to protect the humans inside the bookshop, meanwhile Aziraphale is abusing his powers to put on a puppet show with human beings

in the final fifteen, he does not suggest running away, he suggest finding a new safe space, because the bookshop can now be accessed by both sides without problems

the one and ONLY TIME Crowley actually wants to run away is not at the bandstand—he is talking about 'if' and running as a contingency plan—but later when he finds Aziraphale on the street; in that moment, he is 100% certain (and correct) that hell is about to drag him down to torture him for all eternity. Who wouldn't run from a fight you cannot possibly win?

When Aziraphale refuses to come, he STAYS AND FIGHTS despite everything, because freedom means nothing to him without Aziraphale there.

Questions? Feel free to ask them (politely), but please read the original post first and see if I answered them there.

#alex talks good omens #good omens #crowley #crowley meta #good omens meta #good omens season 2 #go2 #aziraphale #aziracrow #crowley x aziraphale #ineffable husbands #ineffable wives #ineffable spouses #ineffable divorce #the final fifteen

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deppiet · 9 months

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About the yassification of GO2.

Warning: the following text is highly critical of the second season of Good Omens. If you enjoyed it, I am happy for you, and a non-negligible amount of jealous as well. Please scroll past before I inevitably rain on your fandom parade.

So, I did the thing. I binged the entire second season of what was, up to now, my favorite show ever, in one sitting. And I have a great deal of things to say, but hardly any of them is positive.

Let me start by saying that I don't mind the cliffhanger or the melancholy ending, like at all. In our era of Marvel apologists and the instant gratification culture, it is necessary for media to persevere and add nuance to romantic relationships. That said, what transpired during the six hours leading up to this sort of unearned climax hardly contains anything remotely close to nuance.

Who are these people? I don't mean the new characters, all of them written as cardboard-cut anthropomorphic personifications of stereotypes, yassified to the point of representation losing its purpose and getting in the way of, you know, actual writing. I mean the protagonists themselves, Aziraphale and Crowley, up to now my favorite characters in the entire world and -up to now- tangled in a love story so beautiful I had, for better or for worse, devoted a large part of my creative output on it, making art, songs, and metas on why what those two entities had was as close to perfect as anyone can hope to find for themselves.

These are not the characters I knew. The characters I knew spent hundreds of human lifetimes revolving around each other in a treacherous yet familiar dance- they both knew the love was there, it was comfortable like an armchair that has taken the shape of the body using it for years. They argued the way old couples do, and of course, like all fictional beings that are counterparts of one another, had differences to settle, but what stood in their way wasn't misunderstanding or miscommunication, in was their fear of Heaven and Hell, and their fundamentally different approaches on how to keep each other safe.

What is all this teen angst? This will-they-won't-they silliness that lacks any nuance, thematic coherence, or literally even trace amounts of understanding of the source material? Where is the dark humor, the quotability, the chaotic overarching plot, the self conscious camp? The season is so cynically written to cater specifically to a certain part of fandom, that I am losing respect for the original work- because if Neil Gaiman doesn't care for these fictional beings, and he evidently doesn't, why should I?

The thematic core of what made Good Omens what it was, had always been the "Love in unexpected places" trope Sir Terry Pratchett knew how to write so well. It had never been about the fantasy, because Sir Terry wrote satire wrapped up in a supernatural package, it had never been about the romance, because when the ship becomes the end instead of the means, the love rings hollow, like artificial light trying to pass as sunshine. The beating heart of GO lies in its philosophy, in the beautiful notion that the agents of two oppressive systems at war have more in common with one another than with their respective oppressors. That being a nobody, a mere cog in a larger machine, says more about said machine than it does about you, and that you can try to break free and build a life for yourself, where a happy ending looks like a dinner at the Ritz with the one you love most.

Shoehorning an underdeveloped "romance" between Beelzebub and Gabriel not only feels like bad fanfic (disclaimer: I like the ship and feel like it could have worked if developed in any capacity, and presented in a more humorous and character-appropriate way. I hate with passion how much they watered down Beelzebub in order to make them stereotypically romanceable, adding the Ineffable Bureaucracy to the ever-expanding list of characters I don't care about anymore.) but also, it muddles and grossly undermines the thematic raison d'être of Ineffable Husbands. If the ramifications for defecting and fucking off with the enemy were a slap on the wrist for the respective leaders of both sides, well surely the system can't be that oppressive after all. And if fear of the oppressive system wasn't, after all, what kept these beings apart, surely these two entities don't like each other as much as we thought. Or rather, one is reduced to a lovesick puppy and the other to a brainless husk of a character, a plot device, a means to go from place A to place B without spending much brainpower on the logistics.

And if these two new people got to kiss I care not, for they are not the same people I rooted for (props, though, to the actors, who gave, somehow, an almost Shakespearean gravitas to their love affair, underwritten and dumbed down as it was. They both love the characters, and it shows in the minuscule yet brilliant ways in which they added nuance where the script had none.)

What was that thing with the lesbians about? Though straight passing, I have always known myself to be attracted to women as well as men, and I am always highly suspicious when an "ally" writer (see: straight, no shade to straight people among which I live because they are, like, the majority) decides to make all characters queer, in the face of real-world statistics and despite NOT being queer themselves. When a person like Nate Stevenson does it they get a pass because writers self-insert and because, when done well, it can carry a message of equality. But when the ally writer does it, unless it is pitch-perfect, I am forced to examine the possibility of them being calculating about it and trying to score representation points, often because they need the rep as a fig leaf to cry homophobia behind when people start complaining about the atrocious plot.

Nina and Maggie were boring. They had no personalities, no cohesive backstories, nothing to make us understand what they are to one another and to the overarching plot ("plot" is used loosely here, for there was no plot: the series ended where it should have started, with six hours of -progressively more offensive to my intelligence- fanfic tropes in a trenchcoat serving as the, well, "plot"). I didn't care whether or not they'd end up together, because I have no idea who they are. The blandness of the dialogue had the actresses, both very talented as evidenced in the first season, grasping at straws with what little characterization they were left to work with, and the "ball" was so unbelievably bad a plot device no amount of suspension of disbelief was ever going to make it right.

The minisodes, though at parts clever and philosophical, felt out of place. This was another narrative choice I had to raise my eyebrows at, because it felt like a bunch of executives sat around a table and watched Neil Gaiman's powerpoint presentation of what made Season 1 financially successful. They were shoehorned in, largely irrelevant to the, eh, "plot", and most of them lasted far more than I personally deemed welcome, or necessary.

What else is there to say? The wink-winks and nudge-nudges to the Tumblr nation? The in-your-face Doctor Who reference? The narratively myopic choice to make Crowley a former archangel? The cheese dialogue, not one bit of which was quotable?

I am distraught. I am grieving an old friend, and a part of my fandom life I cannot, in good faith, return back to after this gross betrayal. I am happy for those who don't see it, because I wish I could love this season past its flaws. However, the writing isn't simply mediocre, it is irrevocably, immeasurably, undescribably bad, so bad I am shocked to my very core, so bad I find it offensive to Sir Terry's memory and everything his own creative output was lovingly filled with.

I am passing all five stages of grief and very much doubt I will return to this fandom. I loved the original story and the characters with all my heart- now the aforementioned heart is broken, not by the breakup or anything as pedestrian as cheap romantic tropes. But because my old friends, my family of fictional beings, are no longer the ones I loved and could relate to.

Deppie out.

#good omens #good omens season 2 #go2 #good omens 2 spoilers #gos2 spoilers #good omens s2 #aziraphale #crowley #ineffable husbands #good omens critical #good omens season 2 critical #neil gaiman #terry pratchett #good omens spoilers #michael sheen #david tennant

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mommyashtoreth · 14 days

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what are your most hated popular aziraphale and crowley mischaracterizations

GREAT question I fucking love complaining

Not to sound contradictory right off the bat but for Az it's both like. "Aziraphale is mean" and "Aziraphale is SO cartoonishly nice that he can't even fathom of anything that could be construed by anyone as being somehow 'bad'", because I think both are really fundamental misunderstandings of Aziraphale as a dramatic character for the former and as a comedic character for the latter. "Aziraphale is mean" seems to be based entirely on the ending of s2 and I've certainly said my piece about that already, but to summarize I think it's a bad reading of that scene and I find "actually Aziraphale is manipulative and mean and Crowley is 100000% always in the right and never did anything wrong ever" to make for a much more boring story than what we've actually got. On the other hand, boomeranging right into the other direction and making Aziraphale way too nice is ALSO something I find boring, but in a more standard "fandom flanderization" type of way. Like, I'm sure you've seen something where Aziraphale is so nice and good and pure and soft and sweet and smol cinnamon roll needs protection that he passes out whenever someone says the word "penis." And I find that boring! It's a bad way to engage with his joke. Aziraphale IS nice, genuinely, and he's good to people and helps people and loves humanity, but also like, he's smug and he lies and he says guns lend weight to a moral argument and is kind of a cunt in ways people don't give him credit for. And that's good! That's awesome. He's really really really funny and I obviously really really like him. Basically I wish people knew how to balance "Aziraphale is nice" and "Aziraphale is a bitch" bc both are true and it's a fine-tuned craft managing to depict both at once

Crowley is harder to pin down... idk I just Also find a lot of fandom Crowley very boring in very similar ways, either stripping him down (God I wish) to form one half of a very basic very boring Good Guy Vs. Bad Guy dynamic, or making him this like Sexy Domineering Alpha Male Daddy Dom type that I find very boring. Not that I think Crowley can never be sexy or domineering, my url is literally, yknow, that, but I think all his "evilness" has an almost playful nature to it where like you know he's having fun with it, OR I like when it feels like he's doing it as a job. like Oh, fuck, have to make the quota today. Gotta go cause a pileup. I think people generally tend to make Crowley either too serious or too nice, and he IS nice, there's a guarded softness in like both renditions of the character that IS very important, but he's still Also kind of a bitch! And that's fun! Idk people always make "sin" out to be some huge thing like "Crowley has to literally murder a child" which makes for good conflict, but there's also little stuff that he's a) good at and b) likes doing, like causing traffic jams and moving construction poles around and just like, generally annoying people and I think that's really really funny. I read a fic once where she would order pizza for delivery to other people's houses, and I'm still workshopping mine where she, like, convinces this rich guy to invest in a bad industry so when his stocks plummet he'll be insufferable to be around (also bc greed is a sin. There are sins besides lust! Animals), and that's fun! And honestly Crowley's fun even when he's down in the dumps, he's funny when he gets annoyed with Aziraphale or when he gets angry at Gabriel or whatever. I wish people tapped into that more! Idk I also clearly like Crowley a lot I think we could hang out I could grab a beer with him and play Bowie and Brian Eno on the jukebox, and a lot of fandom Crowley does not feel like somebody I could grab a beer with. Let him loosen up! Misery is fun to write but all work and no play makes Tony a dull boy

#ask #anon #good omens #gomens #aziraphale #crowley #aziracrow #barely. but yknow #good omens meta #??? sure! who cares

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celluloidbroomcloset · 9 months

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More Good Omens 2 thoughts under the cut:

The Kiss. I've seen quite a bit on this, unsurprisingly, but a lot of what I've seen doesn't really address why the kiss is perfect, actually. It's an expression of exactly where these two characters go wrong in their understanding of each other and of their relationship.

On the surface, Aziraphale is romantic, Crowley is passionate. Aziraphale conceives of falling in love like Jane Austen - with dancing and furtive glances and gentle touches. Crowley conceives of it as something intense and explosive - a thunderstorm and an awning and a perfect kiss. But that’s only on the surface.

Underneath, Aziraphale is incredibly passionate, which is exactly what bothers the shit out of him. When he gives in to his passions, he’s governed by them - when he eats food for the first time, when he holds onto his books for dear life, when he drags Crowley onto the dance floor, when he gets angry at the angels.

Crowley is incredibly romantic. The whole concept of the perfect kiss in the rain is romantic idea; the confession of love he was working up to before he was interrupted is romantic; the lovely dinner and "alone time" he talked about is a romantic notion. He sits at a table with a bottle of wine and a rose and invites Aziraphale to have a drink; that's romantic too. He considers romance to be silly and maudlin and he really, really wants it.

(Seriously, if these were two humans in a human sexual relationship, Aziraphale would be jumping Crowley’s bones every chance he got and Crowley would be like “can we just go out for a nice dinner?”)

Which brings me to The Kiss. Again, superficially it's an expression of those two opposites: the passionate and the romantic. It's a final, desperate gesture that falls back on passion as the solution - because Crowley can't bring himself to make the romantic gesture instead of the passionate one. Aziraphale can't stand the passion because it will 100% consume him. He does not know what to do with it, except that he wants it badly and that is, for him, Not OK (hence the trembling, the drawing closer and pulling away, the sobs). It violates his surface-level concept of what love is.

But Aziraphale's gesture of bringing them both to Heaven is a romantic one - he sees it as the solution to their problem (which Crowley doesn't really consider a problem). They can go to Heaven and have a pure, angelic relationship uncomplicated by those elements of passion that he both deeply desires and believes he should reject.

What neither of them really get is how deeply they misunderstand each other and themselves. Because they are complementary, but they are not black and white, demon and angel, passion and romance. They each have those elements in themselves (those very human contradictions, but also the inherent theme that all demons were once angels and all angels are potential demons) and they're each resisting those elements. So Crowley won't confess his love, and Aziraphale won't give in to his passion. Their place really is on Earth, where they can have a mix of everything, which is neither Heaven nor Hell. This all culminates in that kiss, and of course it doesn't work - because it fails to acknowledge the shades within them both. But there are hints, both in Crowley's hope in confessing his love for an angel and in Aziraphale embracing, however fleetingly, the demon.

There's a fundamental difference between that and what Gabriel and Beezlebub have with each other. Neither of them reach out for human things--they don't drink their beers, they don't eat their crisps; they make gestures to each other with the fly and the song, but those are ultimately more ethereal than human (the song keeps repeating, the fly is...a fly). When they choose to be together, they simply fade away, going somewhere else that's certainly not a bookshop or a Bentley; it's a different kind of love and togetherness than what Crowley and Aziraphale want with each other.

I do think this show expresses the different kinds of love that human beings have for each other, and reinforces how all that love is real but needs to be truthful. Neither Aziraphale nor Crowley are really being truthful with themselves or with each other - they're still trying to deny parts of who they are and why they need each other.

#good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #just my random thoughts #i had emotions #good omens spoilers #not avengers stuff #different ridiculous couple

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thealogie · 1 month

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What's the one mischaracterisation you can't stand? It absolutely baffles me that the majority of the fandom seem to think Aziraphale is this tottering sweet guileless kindly angel (in both senses of the word), when he is an absolute cunt (affectionately) most of the time. He puts on the persona of a cuddly kind angle but it falls rather quickly when he's annoyed. How do you misunderstand a character on such a fundamental level

I don’t have just one single pet peeve I can single out but the one you’ve just named sure is one of them. In general I’m so picky. Like aziraphale somehow needs to be both the kindest person you’ve ever met who still finds childlike joy in every day things but also needs to be a massive cunt and liar who gets a headache if you’re annoying to him and can kill if he wants to. Crowley needs to be a pathetic uncool loser who’s absolutely whipped but also is clever and competent and has a backbone.

These things are almost impossible to keep in the correct balance. If I had to pick I’d say my biggest pet peeve is when people portray aziraphale as stupid/naive and Crowley as too suave/together but I could be easily annoyed by other stuff

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sandraharissa · 8 months

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Even tho ‘Nina makes Crowley realise he’s in love’ has become quite a popular interpretation I’m still sticking with my previous interpretation of ‘Crowley knew the whole time, likely since the Eden wall scene’. It’s bcos this twist on their relationship does nothing for me and all I see from other ppl who liked it is ‘Oh Crowley’s such a dum-dum, of course he’d just do all those things but remain oblivious, he’s so silly’.

Now I’m not mad at anybody specifically for having a different interpretation but I wanna share my own thoughts about the interpretation itself, and by ‘share my thoughts’ I mean bitch about it.

In s1 so much of Crowley’s behavior is so intentional, he’s the one always pushing for them to have more interactions, he was the one who suggested the arrangement, he’s always inserting himself in Azi’s life, he’s the one insisting they are on their own side, he’s suggesting running off to Alfa-Centauri, he’d do anything like postpone Satan and any other of Azi’s whims just for him, he’s the one who at the end when they’re waiting on the bus appeals to Azi again trying to reinforce that they’re together on the same side, but probs the most obvious example of all the ‘you go to fast for me’ scene. There’s so much potent drama and tragedy there for Crowley if he’s pursuing Azi the whole time, how else would you even call what he’s doing in s1?

“Well, can I drop you anywhere?”

“No, thank you. Oh, don’t look so disappointed. Perhaps one day we could… I don’t know. Go for a picnic. Dine at the Ritz.”

“I’ll give you a lift. Anywhere you want to go.”

“You go too fast for me, Crowley.”

So when I watched this exchange the first time and assumed it has a deeper meaning cos they’re both talking in code and using the car as a metaphor for being ready to take their relationship to the next level I wasn’t right and the scene isn’t really that deep or romantic cos Crowley was really just suggesting spending more time together that evening like always and had no deeper desire or meaning to convey and also completely missed the meaning of Azi’s words?

For the love of God he walked into a church burning his feet for Azi’s sake in this grand sweet gesture just completely unaware of why he’s actually doing it? Doesn’t it take away so much depth and agency and meaning from that interaction? If it’s not intended by Crowley as a grand sweet gesture cos ‘he’s the love of my life, I’d do anything for him’ but as far as Crowley’s aware he’s doing it just because?

I think that’s why I dislike it so much, it exchanges the imo super compelling drama and a tragic angle to Crowley’s character with ‘oh it’s just so typical of them to be so smart yet stupid ha ha’. Like honestly, yeah sure, I get it, it fits the Pratchett-esque type humor, it IS in character for them to be dum-dums but it’s kinda disappointing imo if this comedic aspect of their characterization was taken so far as to be used as an explanation for really serious aspects of the development of their quite tragic relationship.

I think part of this is also this paradox of how having inhuman characters in stories doesn’t mean anything cos fundamentally they still need to behave human in order to be relatable to the audience and not come off as flat and simplified versions of ‘human’, what ppl often think of as poorly written characters. And oftentimes attempts to create ‘otherworldly’ characters that are still compelling simply result in cishet writers making all their robots/aliens/angels aro/ace/trans, so creating completely human characters with human experiences. I think there’s a limit to how far you can take a character who’s lived with humans for 6k years and presumably loves them and say that he wholly misunderstands the most basic and important aspect of humanity like ‘feeling love’ before the character becomes ‘silly’ beyond understandable or relatable.

Azi being clever yet stupid cos his internal character conflict results in him not knowing how to reconcile his relationship with heaven to his relationship with Crowley? Fantastic. An extremely human experience of dealing with an abusive family too, and not at all anything truly celestial/alien.

Crowley knowing Jane Austen personally from a heist but missing the fact that she wrote novels and their cultural relevance, a la grandpa who lives under a rock? Or him organizing a heist to *looks at notes* steal holy water, a la demon who doesn’t know how christianity works and that he could get it for free by asking? Hilarious. Crowley having character quirks like his thing with ducks? Great.

Crowley spends 6k years consistently and vigorously pursuing one person (one!!!) and performing grand romantic gestures but sike, it was unintentional cos he’s so removed from the human experience and emotions that he’s got no self-awareness? Meh.

It’d be another thing if the whole time Crowley was shameful and in denial of his feelings and behaved like Azi e.g. “we’re not friends and I don’t even like you”, with him I totally agree that he must have realized recently and has still not processed it and his family trauma, but the intent and purpose and intensity with which Crowley pursues a relationship, even just a friendship, with Azi in s1 really makes it unbelievable to me that he’d do it completely unaware. During the talk with Nina he may have realized that his relationship with Azi is comparable to the human romance and opened his eyes to the possibility of e.g. kissing and realized he needs to make a move and stop dancing around the topic but I completely reject the idea that he didn’t know he loved Azi.

Warning. Bitterness incoming: Currently waiting for s3 to inspire an interpretation that *that scene from s3* is when Azi realizes he’s in love, cos he hasn’t done so in 1941, s1 and s2, and during the kiss scene apparently.

#ineffable husbands #ineffable husbands meta #good omens #crowley #crowley meta #my:good omens #aziraphale

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anthonycrowley · 9 months

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oh also the thing i was really scared of happening was i read the description of episode six when i was only at like episode 2 and i felt like it was implying crowley was gonna Rise which i was ready to throw shit at like no that is a fundamental misunderstanding of crowley's character. they're names for sides. he Truly believes that and he doesn't want to be called good but he does think he can be good And be a demon. and then. well. actually this needs its own post i am unwell

#my post #gomens #gomens tv

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deneveve-is-lost · 9 months

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People have got Crowleys reaction to Aziraphale asking him back to heaven completely wrong, he genuinely does understand better than Aziraphale. He's not upset because he thinks Aziraphale is trying to change him he's upset because Aziraphale thinks he wants to come back to heaven, he doesn't, to assume that's something he's upset about is a fundamental misunderstanding of his character and to hear that coming from his closest (only) friend who he was just about to confess his love to, that fucking bleeds. At least if Aziraphale had wanted him to change he would've known who he was, that's a place you can bargain from, someone just not understanding you at all? No.

#crowley #im experiencing acute mental illness rn excuse the good omens posting #good omens spoilers

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smorgasbordofobsessions · 2 years

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liveblog: yugioh! gx s101-107

ep101

ATEM!

i literally choked when i heard atem's voice god my fake boyfriend is great

i've watched maybe a handful of episodes of gx? but i don't even know any of the characters names, minus jaden's, of course

okay so there's a proper duel monsters school (and community college) and a prep school? hm okay

the summary for the serios said this is set "Several years" after the ending of the original

a PhD in dueling?????

this crowler dude is ugly

what does chaz have against jaden? literally never saw him before

but kuriboh's defeat not affecting life points isn't obscure knowledge? if this is set after the original then we know of kuriboh's special ability

oh so polymerization IS fusion summoning, so it's not anything new or requires anything new

so jaden won nice

ep102-3

academy island reminds me of duelist kingdom

hm so jaden's one of those "looks on the bright side" characters

so the school is divided into three houses named after the egyptian gods but somehow slifer is at the bottom of the hierarchy

it's actually fundamentally wrong for a school to treat their students so disdainfully but okay

so the duel between chaz and jaden got interrupted because of campus security - since dueling off hours is against the rules

crowley is treating the slifers badly and JADEN!!! told him to his face in front of the whole class "you really shouldn't go and make fun of us slifers like that. i mean, i'm a slifer and i beat you, so when you make fun of us, you're really making fun of yourself"

how doyou even recover!! from a fucking child! and student! telling you that

the head of the slifer dorm is definitely one of those people who plays it cool but notices everything around them

on a serious note: if there's ever a school administrator who is very purposefully trying to sabotage you, report that to the school (and maybe the police) so create a record of harassment because that shit is illegal and discriminatory

"a good mood? that really doesn't sound like cyrus"

a gba sp!!

jaden is dueling alexis because alexis is holding cyrus captive due to a misunderstanding of a fake love letter

jaden won his duel against alexis

also i'm sorry but if the girls set them up then the girls are still culpable for creating the situation that could have caused the boys to get expelled which would mean that they get, at the least, some sort of administrative reprimand

ep104

a full armada delivering rare cards

cyrus is praying to slifer and has a bandana with monster reborn cards in them

it's honestly painful to look at crowley he's so ugly

"i may flunk now and then, but i never fail"

"you know, you look better all covered up"

chaz is right

hm so the dean of the school MUST know that crowler is shady but keeps him on board for some reason

jaden got promoted to ra dorm but is still gonna stay in the slifer dorms

cyrus is never letting go of jaden again

ep105

baby!jaden was cute

imagine you're a "dark" duelist and duel people to send them to the shadow realm and some dude hires you to scare a child

it's a bit funny when you think of it but with the regularity of how often characters draw the same card, you would think that their decks are never shuffled

the millennium puzzle!!

oh? no explanation about how the magic card "pot of greed" allows you to draw two cards from your deck?

ep106

jaden believes that the shadow game was really just a hypnosis schtick - and he was right haha

oh there really was a shadow game

jade won, of course, so alexis is saved

ep107

why is the "disciplinary action squad" an actual security force

campus arrest??

"an anonymous letter confirmed it" and you're gonna believe an anonymous letter?

jaden and cyrus have to duel to stay in school

jaden and cyrus are gonna have a practice duel against each other so they can figure out how to duel together

i love how from literally turn one people call the duel like wait for the duel to progress maybe??

cyrus needs so real fucking confidence boosting

oh god they DID explain pot of greed!

"i'm not good enough to play a card this strong" it's a fuking fusion card???? not like we're talking about the god cards

"that was a good duel" no it wasn't

#yugioh #ygo #liveblog #ygo gx

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prince-of-elsinore · 3 years

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for the ask game - coming straight on with the bat: Supernatural

Alright alright!

Favorite character: The bro-bond :) Lol but if I have to choose one, Dean <3

Least Favorite character: This is not easy, b/c mostly I don't dislike characters so much as the arcs they're part of. But I guess I could really do without Claire (she was ok in one or two eps)

5 Favorite ships (canon or non-canon): Wincest, JohnDean, DeanBenny, Drowley (mostly of the one-sided pining ilk), and uhh... Megstiel? (idk I don't really have many ships)

Character I find most attractive: Dean 🙈

Character I would marry: God no one, I don't wanna die

Character I would be best friends with: Realistically, again, no one lol. But I guess I could be drinking buds with Dean. We could nerd out over 80s horror movies and classic rock and sing bad karaoke. I guess by the same token I could nerd out with Sam over dead languages and mythological lore, but I ain't getting any closer to them than that b/c as I said, I don't wanna die

A random thought: I've been watching s1 reaction videos by teenage? 20-ish? dude-bros and it's super endearing and refreshing how earnestly into the show and divorced from fandom bullshit they are 🥺

An unpopular opinion: Uhh so many *sweats nervously* Ok let's go with Sam was in no way broken, brainwashed, or Stockholm Syndromed by his brother and it's a fundamental misunderstanding of his character (and s9) to think so 🤷‍♂️

My canon OTP: Wincest, in that they are IT for each other and don't have to be making the beast with two backs to be canon (no matter what Kripke comics say 😜). Queerplatonic life and afterlife partners babyyy

Non-canon OTP: Wincest, in that them makin' the beast with two backs is pure fanon

Most badass character: Aw almost unfair to have to choose just one :( But I'll go with Sam, gotta show him some love. And he is truly a bamf

Pairing I am not a fan of: Destiel

Character I feel the writers screwed up (in one way or another): Ah geez, I feel like I could say almost anyone at some point, but I'll go with Dean in Dabb era--not so much screwed up as screwed over, with weak and repetitious writing... but they also did Sam and Castiel pretty dirty in their own ways

Favourite friendship: Sam and Dean! But shoutouts go to Dean&Charlie, Sam&Rowena, and Crowley&the boys

Thanks for playing anon! 😊

#ask meme #spn #musings #wincest

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clairenatural · 3 years

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For Supernatural to expand their universe (like Buffy or Star Trek) it would require them to care about characters outside of Sam and Dean and believe they have stories worth being told but unfortunately they don't. Look at how the show treats Cas and Crowley (it blows my mind that they created characters that were so popular and on any other show TPTB would have totally cashed in on that but this is Supernatural so they didn't)

yeah :/// what they did to mark and crowley was criminal tbh....cas only got a slightly better treatment because fans rioted and even then we got the bare minimum

part of why i’m so baffled is that the WB did really well with Buffy, comparatively, and even though I know the CW =/= WB I would have expected some of that expertise to carry over.

but honestly what I think it boils down to is that Buffy was popular with its target audience so they were ready/willing/prepared to continue to feed that audience content, and Supernatural...was not. Their target audience was straight, cis men who could live their macho, americana monster hunting dreams through Sam and Dean and to this day they’ve done a terrible job adjusting to the fact that the fanbase is overwhelmingly queer people and women. there are other great posts on the weird phenomenon of popular shows (like SPN) being...weirdly angry? that their fanbase is women and queer people, and profiting off the fandom but refusing to cater to the people actually making them money. So we get pushed to Walker because the target audience for Walker and SPN is the same and fuck who actually loves this show, amirite

(sorry anon i realize this got off topic but tl;dr: you’re correct and it’s because spn execs fundamentally misunderstand the audience and also don’t care enough to)

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wanna-b-poet31 · 5 years

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Aziraphale and Food

So, stick with me for a moment: Why do we almost universally essentialize Aziraphale into a glutton?

Like yes, he eats, and yes, to our knowledge he’s the only known celestial creature (Christs and Anti-Christs notwithstanding) to eat on screen, but he never really eats to excess. In fact, I don’t think he eats food because he’s a hedonist (I mean he is a hedonist, but maybe not for this), BUT rather because it provides him an excuse to be with Crowley.

Sounds ridiculous right? It shouldn’t be right, right? We see Aziraphale eat alot over the course of the show, we see him enjoy eating, and we never see Crowley eat ever. So, it can’t all just be a ploy to be with Crowley? Right?

I mean he certainly enjoys eating, I’m not fool enough to say he isn’t getting any pleasure from dining out. Just look at his face as he appreciates the sushi! Joy!

And this calm, happiness follows Aziraphale when later in Ep. 1, Crowley takes him to the Ritz in an attempt to persuade him to save the world. And, to celebrate surviving the end of the world with his boyfriend best friend, the first thing they do once they’re free, really free of Heaven and Hell and their abusers, is going to the Ritz.

So I’m not proposing that Aziraphale doesn’t eat, or that he doesn’t get any enjoyment from eating >I mean look at how his face falls he is When Gabriel asks why he’s eating food, proceeding to call it “gross matter”, and eating it “sullies” his heavenly temple. It’s straight-up heartbreak, as Aziraphale glances down at his spicy tuna roll. (and let’s not forget or excuse that what Gabriel is doing here is abusive) <

However, if Aziraphale’s interest in food is simply selfish or gluttonous, then we must have seen him eat plenty of times without Crowley or the expectation that eating would be a vehicle for their social interaction.

We don’t.

AZIRAPHALE + SUSHI

Just think back to the above scene that establishes Aziraphale’s character.

This is the only scene with Aziraphale and food that does not include Crowley. And sure, he is alone in a sushi place, before being rudely interrupted by Gabriel’s garbage attitude. Crowley doesn’t isn’t there now, he’s not ducking under the table, or jumping out the window, or materializing himself anywhere else but there to avoid being seen by Heaven. So, clearly, this must be proof of Aziraphale’s undying attachment to food.

Case Closed. Diagnosis: Gluttony plain and simple.

However, if this is true, how do we explain his peculiar behavior in this restaurant?

For starters, immediately after receiving his food, he’s striking a conversation with the chef -- a chef who knows his NAMEd, not Mr. Fell, not some pseudonym, not simply addressing him like another customer, but as a friend (at least an acquaintance). Perhaps even more telling is not that Aziraphale and the Chef know each other, but that Aziraphale -- I’m a bit out of Practice is French IN FRANCE -- has gone out of his way to learn Japanese to converse with this person, treating him with the respect of a friend, not someone who is here simply for food alone. This is social.

Then there is a small chime, indicating a supernatural presence has entered the building. (We hear the same chime when Crowley rescues his ass from a guillotine) And notice how unsurprised he is by the sudden supernatural presence. He’s expecting a guest.

Couple this information with Crowley’s behavior at the graveyard (he acts like he wants to get the hell out of Dodge even before he’s tasked with delivering the Anti-christ like he’s got a prior engagement) and the knowledge that the A40 goes straight through Soho.

I think it’s reasonable to conclude that he’s expecting Crowley.

Notice how he pointedly looks to his left upon hearing the magical chime. We see in the next (below) shot, that he’s not turning to the door, but to a mirror. So why look there if not because Crowley always is on his right?

His face instantly drops and an overjoyed expectant look turns to a terse, forced polite smile when he sees Gabriel, not Crowley, has joined him. And while he defends eating, we don’t see him eat (even after Gabriel leaves). I think, perhaps unintentionally, this is the scene that tells us why Aziraphale eats.

Pretext.

AZIRAPHALE’S SOCIAL CALL, CROWLEY’S BUSINESS DEAL

Let’s look at the first time (temporally) we see Aziraphale broach the idea of food. In the early years and in Heaven, Aziraphale doesn’t volunteer any interest in food or social interaction. However, in Rome, things are clearly different.

>check out where I purpose Aziraphale falls in love with Crowley in Rome here<.

Notice how in the opening shot, Aziraphale isn’t eating. There’s no drink in his hand, no grapes in his mouth, nothing to indicate that he has been eating, or socializing. When suddenly!! He hears a voice, and stops, his game piece hovering over the board as he realizes Crowley is nearby.

Only when after he approaches Crowley, does food enter the conversation Hearing Crowley order gives him the perfect in, the clearly acceptable, casual social relationship that no one could question. He can see that Crowley, like him, has changed and that the demon is giving him limited responses, barely joining the conversation.

Aziraphale tries-- he honest to God tries -- to start a conversation without pretext, without some kind of excuse to join in the welcome, and frankly comforting, company. He asks “still a demon” trying, oh so haphazardly, to make it about work, kind of like when someone is asking you about the weather, and it blows up in his face, earning him the wrath of his friend. He simply can’t be the one to initiate business conversations because it, as a pretext for their relationship, is always off the mark, and comes across as dismissive of Crowley’s demon identity.

Only when he talks about food does he manage to get Crowley to open up, and accept his presence. He gives Aziraphale the all-clear to continue talking to him, and Aziraphale fucking jumps on it. It’s extra fascinating how both parties leave this scene with two radically different uses for food. For Aziraphale, it is a safe pretext to get Crowley to open up, but for Crowley, it seems to be Aziraphale’s main interest, not him.

Crowley also doesn’t seem to get that Aziraphale is not equipped to talk shop, and needs the security in being in a sanctioned social interaction. Friendly talks like the ones they’d shared earlier were comforting to Aziraphale, getting him to open up in a way that no other character had successfully managed. He means for this, and more importantly, he NEEDS this to be social. To be a kind of friendship, partnership, that he doesn’t get from Heaven. There’s security in being casual, social, and nothing more than that.

However, Crowley can’t talk about himself in any meaningful way. He mentions he’s never had oysters before, his sarcasm missing Aziraphale only to have him be surprised when Aziraphale tries one last jab at the business talk. The “let me tempt you” gets his attention, but he doesn’t relax until Aziraphale, “no, I suppose that’s your job”, or when Aziraphale diverts the conversation back into their work.

Both walk away from this conversation thinking “yes, I know how to talk to him now” Except, they don’t. Aziraphale doesn’t recognize Crowley uses their work as a catalyst, and Crowley doesn’t recognize that for Aziraphale food is a catalyst, not the product, he desires.

A MISCOMMUNICATION

When Crowley asks for a “favor”, a work lunch, we can see how the two fundamentally misunderstand how food is being used, and how the other thinks food is being used.

The whole exchange about the crepes, boils down to Crowley opening the door with “remember that work favor?” and Aziraphale responding with “I don’t remember the work pretext, but I remember sharing crepes with you”.

Notice it’s not I had crepes, nor is it a focus on the food itself. It is Aziraphale emphasizing the shared part of the shared experience, not the details (which we get to see by the way) of being rescued or of accusing Crowley of starting the revolution, and Crowley explaining that neither side had started it, but the humans had. All Aziraphale cares about is their relationship, but can only safely use food as his point of reference because it allows him to share time with Crowley.

Contrast this with how Crowley’s perspective. Even just asking if it was one of Heaven’s or Hell’s is cementing the conversation as a work lunch, reminding Aziraphale (and perhaps himself) that they’re only allowed a professional relationship, not a social one, and he gives himself the pretext of work. Neither recognizes that there is a cross in the symbolism.

THE SHIFT

Things do shift, at least for Aziraphale, and food works a second role. Romance.

In the 60′s Aziraphale doubles down on using food to facilitate his relationship with Crowley because now he explicitly us that, “He can’t have [Crowley] risking [his] life, not even for something dangerous” which I think means “I’m afraid of our relationship without the pretext and safety that food has provided us me.” The danger is having their mutual feelings of love being discovered, so he’ll give Crowley the holy water as a symbol of that trust.

But when he continues as uses food to roadmap a relationship free of the pretext, “Maybe one day we’ll go for a picnic, dine at the Ritz” is indeed a literal example of what their relationship could be but it also acts as a promise that “Maybe, one day we can go on a picnic, or dine at the Ritz without the excuses, and simply be us enjoying food, not us using food as a safety net”. It’s a road map that he will continue with the pretext, and he’s alright if Crowley is tired of using it to be around each other, but he needs it, not always, not forever, but for now, it allows him the comfort that he is protecting Crowley’s safety (as well as himself).

Crowley counters this moment with, “I’ll take you anywhere you want to go” which I argue translates into “I will dismiss the pretext now in a heartbeat, I’m not afraid of the consequences, I could ‘eat’ with you now”, but Aziraphale can’t risk it. “You Go too Fast for me Crowley” is a warning that he can’t have Crowley risking his life for him. We talk often about how Crowley has self-esteem issues, but so does Aziraphale, he does not see himself as being worthy of such a risk. So, he needs the pretense of food to function without (much) worry about what Hell would do to Crowley if they were discovered.

Unfortunately, they’re not speaking the same symbolic language, and as pointed out earlier, their wires are crossed.

CONCLUSION

In the beginning of the show, Crowley uses “no more fascinating little restaurants where everyone knows your name” specifically as a selling point, appealing to his presumption that Aziraphale’s love of food outweighs his love of the demon. He’s seen Aziraphale eat, and enjoy himself, clearly, at least Crowley thinks this tactic is reason enough to get Aziraphale to stay. Which points to the fatal flaw of Crowley’s reasoning. He only uses it because saying “we’ll never be able to talk to each other again” doesn’t even register as something he can say because he doesn’t value himself as enough for Aziraphale to consider saving the world. Food, however? Food has acted as a catalyst for understanding, but Crowley mistranslates “catalyst” for “produce” and presumes that because Aziraphale uses food to talk to him, he must love food, and not him. He’s wrong.

It’s not until they both throw out pretext and realize “shit, the song and dances we’ve been doing have not allowed us to rely on each other in the way we need” that they can move forward. And, after Armagedon’t they do just that, leaving the garden, and the remnants of their loyalties to other parties, and dropping all pretext, and just enjoying each other’s company as equals.

Ending the series at the Ritz, celebrating their closeness is likely not the last time they’ll ever share a meal, but it is likely the last time they will under the pretense that food is Aziraphale’s central desire and not Crowley. Sure, food is something Aziraphale mostly enjoys, but it no longer is an excuse. If he eats, it’s for enjoyment and personal choice, not a means for hiding or protecting Crowley anymore. And for Crowley, “tempting” Aziraphale to a bite of lunch without the expectation of a favor, or repaying a favor, removes his similar reservations about pretext. He no longer has to rely on work to simply “be” with Aziraphale.

TLDR: Aziraphale uses food as a social excuse to spend time with Crowley

Thanks for coming to my TedTalk, next time I’ll write too much about Crowley and retraumatization

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