#he wants to run away at the bandstand

[felicitywilds]

been seein a few popular posts about what could Happen in season 3 that i think are kind of missing the mark a bit when it comes to crowley and aziraphale’s characters and both of their approaches to their relationship? so heres my take

aziraphale is a fighter: all throughout the book and season 1, he’s done his best to fight for what he thinks is right. the fatal flaw in this position is that he only ever does it within the confines of his faith and position as an angel: protesting punishing job until God’s Orders are cited; excusing his eating habits to gabriel by saying it helps him ‘blend in’ on earth; even after an entire day of listing things he wouldn’t be able to enjoy on earth anymore, crowley was only able to convince aziraphale to help him raise the antichrist by framing it as ‘thwarting wiles’ (ie. doing his job). aziraphale has always had a lot of conflict with how his and heaven’s ideals align-- this is why aziraphale went to heaven, so he could make the rules he’s so hesitant to break work for him instead of against him.

crowley on the other hand, is a flier: at the slightest sign of trouble he can’t fix, he flees. no, he does not want to dismantle the systems of heaven and hell, he wants to run away forever and never think about them again! he’s canonically tried to do this at least four times! but the fatal flaw in this position is that it means he sees everything he’s built and collected in 6000 years as disposable, which is not unlike how heaven and hell also think about the earth. he’s built a fragile, peaceful existence for himself, but is willing to run away and dump it all the second its peace and fragility is threatened by something he can’t control.

understanding both of these attitudes makes the middle ground where they realize their mistakes and come together again painfully obvious (imo): its earth! literally the ground in the middle between heaven and hell. crowley and aziraphale both already know that the other is worth protecting-- aziraphale wants to go to heaven so being together won’t be against the rules, and crowley wants to run away so heaven and hell can’t destroy them for being together-- so the revelation that needs to be reached in season 3 is that their lives and their history and their home is worth protecting too. beelzebub and gabriel had ‘heaven/hell is wherever you are’, but that kind of attitude (even ‘to the world’/they are each others world) doesn’t work for crowley and aziraphale because they spent 6000 years building something that makes simply being together synonymous with being on earth.

after all, the Really Big One is going to be all of us vs. all of them-- heaven and hell against all of humanity. when crowley and aziraphale have this exchange in the book and season 1, i fully believe that both them assume that when they say “us”, it means heaven and hell-- even after everything that happened, they’re still aligning themselves against the earth and the history they have there. which is why, after all their wonderful and inevitable character development in season 3, they’re going to realize that “us” actually means humanity.

#good omens #good omens season 2 #good omens spoilers #good omens meta #good omens analysis #gomens #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #aziraphale #anthony j crowley #by me #this was made about Two Posts i saw that annoy me to no end #the first has like. Thousands of notes #and FUNDAMENTALLY MISUNDERSTANDS CROWLEYS CHARACTER #HES A COWARD NOT AN ANARCHIST #he wants to run away at the bandstand #and then later in the book shop before az calls heaven #and then again when gabriel shows up #and AGAIN at the end of s2 #not ONCE has his response to heaven been 'fight back and take it down' #and the SECOND post is about az needing to choose between saving earth and saving crowley #which is a fundamental misunderstanding that crowley and earth are on different sides #its NEVER going to be crowley vs earth #crowley IS earth #its always always always going to be crowley and earth vs HEAVEN #their love is the most powerful thing in the universe so it will be easy actually for the two of them to beat both heaven and hell #ok thats all my thoughts i think #so can we stop blaming aziraphale for him being the only one with a flawed way of thinking #thanks :) #ok actually thinking about it more: both of their stances are sooooo reactionary to what heaven or hell could do to them

[inhonoredglory]

Aziraphale’s Choice, the Job Connection, and Michael Sheen’s Morality

Update: Michael Sheen liked this post on Twitter, so I'm fairly certain there is a lot of validity to it.

I’ve had time to process Aziraphale’s choice at the end of Season 2. And I think only blaming the religious trauma misses something important in Aziraphale’s character. I think what happened was also Aziraphale’s own conscious choice––as a growth from his trauma, in fact. Hear me out.

Since November 2022 I’ve been haunted by something Michael Sheen said at the MCM London Comic Con. At the Q&A, someone asked him about which fantasy creature he enjoyed playing most and Michael (bless him, truly) veered on a tangent about angels and goodness and how, specifically,

We as a society tend to sort of undervalue goodness. It’s sort of seen as sort of somehow weak and a bit nimby and “oh it’s nice.” And I think to be good takes enormous reserves of courage and stamina. I mean, you have to look the dark in the face to be truly good and to be truly of the light…. The idea that goodness is somehow lesser and less interesting and not as kind of muscular and as passionate and as fierce as evil somehow and darkness, I think is nonsense. The idea of being able to portray an angel, a being of love. I love seeing the things people have put online about angels being ferocious creatures, and I love that. I think that’s a really good representation of what goodness can be, what it should be, I suppose.

I was looking forward to BAMF!Aziraphale all season long, and I think that’s what we got in the end. Remember Neil said that the Job minisode was important for Aziraphale’s story. Remember how Aziraphale sat on that rock and reconciled to himself that he MUST go to Hell, because he lied and thwarted the will of God. He believed that––truly, honestly, with the faith of a child, but the bravery of a soldier.

Aziraphale, a being of love with more goodness than all of Heaven combined, believed he needed to walk through the Gates of Hell because it was the Right Thing to do. (Like Job, he didn’t understand his sin but believed he needed to sacrifice his happiness to do the Right Thing.)

That’s why we saw Aziraphale as a soldier this season: the bookshop battle, the halo. But yes, the ending as well.

Because Aziraphale never wanted to go to Heaven, and he never wanted to go there without Crowley.

But it was Crowley who taught him that he could, even SHOULD, act when his moral heart told him something was wrong. While Crowley was willing to run away and let the world burn, it was Aziraphale (in that bandstand at the end of the world) who stood his ground and said No. We can make a difference. We can save everyone.

And Aziraphale knew he could not give up the ace up his sleeve (his position as an angel) to talk to God and make them see the truth in his heart.

I was messed up by Ineffable Bureaucracy (Boxfly) getting their happy ending when our Ineffable Husbands didn’t, but I see now that them running away served to prove something to Aziraphale. (And I am fully convinced that Gabriel and Beelzebub saw the example of the Ineffables at the Not-pocalypse and took inspiration from them for choosing to ditch their respective sides)

But my point is that Aziraphale saw them, and in some ways, they looked like him and Crowley. And he saw how Gabriel, the biggest bully in Heaven, was also like him in a way (a being capable of love) and also just a child when he wasn’t influenced by the poison of Heaven. Muriel, too, wasn’t a bad person. The Metatron also seemed to have grown more flexible with his morality (from Aziraphale's perspective). Like Earth, Heaven was shades of (light?) gray.

Aziraphale is too good an angel not to believe in hope. Or forgiveness (something he’s very good at it).

Aziraphale has been scarred by Heaven all his life. But with the cracks in Heaven’s armor (cracks he and Crowley helped create), Aziraphale is seeing something else. A chance to change them. They did terrible things to him, but he is better than them, and because of Crowley, he feels ready to face them.

(Will it work? Can Heaven change, institutionally? Probably not, but I can't blame Aziraphale for trying.)

At the cafe, the Metatron said something big was coming in the Great Plan. Aziraphale knows how trapped he had felt when he didn’t have God’s ear the first time something huge happened in the Big Plan. He can’t take a chance again to risk the world by not having a foot in the door of Heaven. That’s why we saw individual human deaths (or the threat of death) so much more this season: Elspeth, Wee Morag, Job’s children, the 1940s magician. Aziraphale almost killed a child when he couldn’t get through to God, and he’s not going through that again.

“We could make a difference.” We could save everyone.

Remember what Michael Sheen said about courage and doing good––and having to “look the dark in the face to be truly good.” That’s what happened when Aziraphale was willing to go to Hell for his actions. That’s what happened when he decided he had to go to Heaven, where he had been abused and belittled and made to feel small. He decided to willingly go into the Lion’s Den, to face his abusers and his anxiety, to make them better so that they would not try to destroy the world again.

Him, just one angel. He needed Crowley to be there with him, to help him be brave, to ask the questions that Heaven needed to hear, to tell them God was wrong. Crowley is the inspiration that drives Aziraphale’s change, Crowley is the engine that fuels Aziraphale’s courage.

But then Crowley tells him that going to Heaven is stupid. That they don’t need Heaven. And he’s right. Aziraphale knows he’s right.

Aziraphale doesn’t need Heaven; Heaven needs him. They just don’t know how much they need him, or how much humanity needs him there, too. (If everyone who ran for office was corrupt, how can the system change?)

Terry Pratchett (in the Discworld book, Small Gods) is scathing of God, organized religion, and the corrupt people religion empowers, but he is sympathetic to the individual who has real, pure faith and a good heart. In fact, the everyman protagonist of Small Gods is a better person than the god he serves, and in the end, he ends up changing the church to be better, more open-minded, and more humanist than god could ever do alone.

Aziraphale is willing to go to the darkest places to do the Right Thing, and Heaven is no exception. When Crowley says that Heaven is toxic, that’s exactly why Aziraphale knows he needs to go there. “You’re exactly is different from my exactly.”

____

In the aftermath of Trump's election in the US, Brexit happened in 2018. Michael Sheen felt compelled to figure out what was going on in his country after this shock. But he was living in Los Angeles with Sarah Silverman at the time, and she also wanted to become more politically active in the US.

Sheen: “I felt a responsibility to do something, but it [meant] coming back [to Britain] – which was difficult for us, because we were very important to each other. But we both acknowledge that each of us had to do what we needed to do.” In the end, they split up and Michael moved back to the UK.

Sometimes doing the Right Thing means sacrificing your own happiness. Sometimes it means going to Hell. Sometimes it means going to Heaven. Sometimes it means losing a relationship.

And that’s why what happened in the end was so difficult for Aziraphale. Because he loves Crowley desperately. He wants to be together. He wanted that kiss for thousands of years. He knows that taking command of Heaven means they would never again have to bow to the demands of a God they couldn’t understand, or run from a Hell who still came after them. They could change the rules of the game.

And he’s still going to do that. But it hurts him that he has to do that alone.

#good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #it's kinda like capt america: civil war #with Azi as Tony Stark: traumatized and trying to do the right thing #and Crowley being Steve Rogers: fuck the establishment let's go rogue #gos2spoilers #good omens meta #good omens 2 meta #go s2 #michael sheen #go s2 meta #go meta #*mine #*mymeta #ineffables husbands #ineffable soulmates #*mybest

[queerfables]

I wanted this post to be more coherent but I am coming apart at the seams. Listen. Listen to me. Listen look no look me in the eyes and listen LISTEN.

Crowley and Aziraphale know. They're in love, and they know. Their love is requited, and they know. That's why it hurts so much! They don't say it. They can't say it. The consequences for both of them could be disastrous. But they know, they know, they know.

This is forbidden love at it's absolute pinnacle. This is centuries of dancing around an unsayable, inescapable truth. Loving someone this way is intense. It's a fiercely romantic headrush, because everything is high stakes fantasy and it's you and your beloved against the world. It's a soul crushing nightmare because the thing you want more than anything is always there, just out of reach. It's passion and yearning and stolen touches and desperately hoping the other person understands all the things you can't say.

It's also just unbelievably stupid. You have a sizzling moment of intimacy with someone and then three days later you're trying to act like business associates.

This dynamic has been present since season one, and sometimes the atmosphere between Crowley and Aziraphale becomes urgent and surreal enough that they almost name it. There's the bandstand, where Crowley suggests they could run away together. There's Aziraphale in 1967 saying, maybe one day we'll dine at the Ritz. These aren't the words of those unsure of another's feelings. These are declarations made in the clearest terms they dare.

The clincher for me is Aziraphale's face when Shax says she wouldn't have thought he was Crowley's type. It's a nasty comment meant to play on Aziraphale's insecurities: "If you're anything to him, it must be something sordid, and I'm surprised you can even offer him that." And she completely misses the mark! Aziraphale disregards her words without a thought. That eyebrow says he knows exactly how Crowley feels about him, and Shax's insinuation is laughable. He is uniquely Crowley's type.

It's less definitive for Crowley, and it makes sense that it would be. For the most part, Crowley is the accelerator and Aziraphale is the brakes. It is hard to hold faith that someone wants you when all they can tell you is "slow down". That doesn't mean he's unsure of Aziraphale's feelings. It means that he's unsure how much he's allowed to say. Aziraphale wants him to push right up until he doesn't, and it hurts them both when they go too far and have to walk it back. Even so, Crowley's confession makes it pretty clear that they're both in on this unspoken thing between them:

"you and me ... group of the two of us ... and we've spent our existence pretending that we aren't"

And then he kisses Aziraphale. And he doesn't do it carefully or tentatively. He doesn't wait for Aziraphale to be ready. Because that's how this dance goes, isn't it? Aziraphale wants him to push, and it's going to hurt and they're going to have to walk it back but fuck it all because Crowley is going to give them the thing they've spent their existence pretending they didn't want.

#good omens #aziracrow #ineffable husbands #good omens meta #fable talks good omens

[shiplessoceans]

Good Omens S2 Episode 6 confession scene speculation:

Aziraphale didn't respond to the love confession from Crowley because he didn't realise it was one until Crowley mentioned the Nightingale and kissed him.

Allow me to explain.

---

Aziraphale interrupted Crowley to give him the news from Metatron, so when Crowley starts his spiel:

"We've been together a long time, I could always rely on you...we're a group....we've spent our existence pretending we aren't...if Gabriel and Beelzebub can go off together then we can...we don't need heaven/hell they're toxic...you and me whatya say?"

Aziraphale interprets everything Crowley is saying as his rebuttal to the 'good news', not a separate declaration of his feelings.

What Aziraphale just told him shaped Crowley's confession, instead of finally telling Aziraphale how he feels about him, he's now backed into a corner and trying to change Aziraphales mind. Offering to run off with him as the alternative to the Metatron's offer.

The repetition of the phrase: "go off together" from the bandstand fight in season one feels very intentional here. It would be easy for Aziraphale to think 'this is just Crowley's response when the divine plan interferes, he always wants to run away'.

Aziraphale believes that he just needs to make Crowley understand the situation and opportunity that this is and everything will be alright:

"Come with me! To heaven, I can run it, you can be my second in command. We can make a difference!"

Crowley is looking defeated already, in his mind he's bared his soul and Aziraphale is a brick wall. So if he can't tempt the angel into staying with the love he has for him (which Crowley thinks he's declared but he really hasn't), he'll get him to change his mind by evoking something else he loves:

"You can't leave this bookshop."

Aziraphale scoffs fondly. 'Silly demon, you were just suggesting we run off together and abandon it only a moment ago!' He thinks Crowley is trying to 'work' him here and the old serpent might even be selflessly trying to spare the angel the loss of his beloved bookshop in order to restore Crowley and help the world, which would be just like him to be so covertly protective. So Aziraphale reassures him, a bookshop doesn't matter to him as much as Crowley and the world. It's just a collection of objects really. Humanity is more important. Crowley is far more important.

"Oh Crowley, nothing lasts forever."

Crowley is crushed. Nothing lasts forever. Not even the two of them. So he covers his sadness with his glasses, walls back up, and he tries to leave.

Aziraphale is baffled. He just reassured Crowley that he was alright with change if it means things could be better. Why is Crowley leaving? Is he worried that they won't spend time together anymore? That he won't have time for his friend as a supreme archangel?

"Crowley come back!....we can be together, angels!...I need you!"

Crowley can't even look at him in that moment. Why would Aziraphale say that? The two of them together only if he accepts heaven again? Conditional love? That's not fair. It hurts.

Aziraphale meanwhile is hurt by Crowley's turning away, his silence and a bit incensed at what he perceives as ingratitude. Aziraphale didn't really want to go back to heaven, but he'd do it if it meant Crowley could be happy and safe and Crowley doesn't seem to appreciate that:

"I don't think you understand what I'm offering you."

Crowley went through the fall. He asked the questions. Did his best to protect humanity and it has brought him nothing but suffering. He's well aware what's on offer. He's seen heavens cruelty and capriciousness firsthand and been burned by it repeatedly. How can Aziraphale choose them over him and still think everything will work out?

"I understand. I think I understand a whole lot better than you do."

Crowley loves Aziraphale's big foolish optimism and kind heart and he thinks it's the very thing taking the angel away from him. This isn't how it was supposed to go. It's all slipping away from him.

"Listen. You hear that?"

Aziraphale can't even keep up at this point.

This is what comes of thousands of years of 'not talking about it' and living under threat of holy retribution if they are discovered. They're talking past each other, having two different conversations. Obfuscation and code has become their communication medium by necessity and it's failing them.

It's frustrating Aziraphale that he can't get a grip on this conversation:

"I don't hear anything!"

And Crowley drops the bomb.

"That's the point. No Nightingale's."

Oh. Suddenly we're on the same page. You can see from Aziraphale's face that he understands to what Crowley's referring. The Nightingale in Berkely square. Angels dining at the Ritz...

"You idiot! We could have been... us."

Crowley's talking about the big unspoken thing between them. Their relationship, thousands of years of dancing around each other like binary stars gravitationally and inexorably drawn together over and over. The thing Aziraphale was beginning to be bold about, (dancing notwithstanding) before Metatron came along and distracted him.

And it seems to Aziraphale that gut-wrenchingly, Crowley is finally acknowledging their mutual love only to point out that it's gone. Lost. They could have finally been together, an us, but Aziraphale ruined it because he's an 'idiot'.

After being quietly in love with Crowley for years, for Aziraphale to have his offer to return to heaven together and his unspoken love rejected in one fell swoop is devastating.

Overcome, he begins to cry and turns away, not wanting Crowley to see how hurt he is.

Crowley for his part is desperate. He has to do something. Maybe Aziraphale doesn't understand what Crowley is offering him! One fabulous kiss and va-voom right?

In a final desperate act, he kisses Aziraphale. Tries for passionate. Tries to show him that he loves him and show him what they could be because his words clearly aren't working.

Aziraphale is shocked and angry. He wants to kiss Crowley of course. But not like this. Not as a taunt. Crowley just told him their chance is over so what else could this be but a final insult. A kiss to punish the angel. It's a cruelty he didn't believe Crowley capable of.

And despite how mean it is. It's also what Aziraphale has wanted for so long he can't help but melt into it for a brief moment. Allow himself to feel what it would have been like to be that close before losing it forever.

Then Crowley lets go and Aziraphale breaks away on a sob, feeling wounded. Hurt beyond words that Crowley would use his feelings against him like this, gutted to be losing the man he loves and not understanding why.

The worst part is that Aziraphale doesn't have it in him to hate Crowley, even if he thinks the kiss was a cruel gesture. He still loves him. So he gathers himself and does what Aziraphale does when someone hurts him.

He forgives.

"I forgive you."

I forgive you for rejecting my attempt to restore you and make you happy, I forgive you for rejecting God and heaven yet again, I forgive you for acknowledging our love and then rejecting it. I forgive you for kissing me, giving me a fleeting glimpse of what we could have been to each other. I love you and I forgive you all that.

Crowley is done. Breath knocked out of him on a last sigh. He tried. And the Angel forgave him yet again for something he never asked or wanted forgiveness for. He doesn't want to be penitent for loving Aziraphale. Shouldn't have to apologise or regret wanting them to be together.

"Don't bother."

Aziraphale looks surprised Crowley is leaving because he genuinely is. He can't understand how it's all gone so horribly wrong. He gasps, shocked and can't even call out to him to stop, come back.

He cries, touches his lips where Crowley had kissed him. Tries to gather himself and barely has 10 seconds before Metatron is back.

At the end of that scene:

Crowley thinks he confessed his love and Aziraphale chose heaven over him because he didn't want to stop being a demon.

Aziraphale thinks Crowley rejected heaven, then rejected Aziraphale and threw their love back in his face as a final unkindness.

Aziraphale leaves and goes to heaven anyway because in his mind he's already lost Crowley and there is nothing left to stay for. If he doesn't have Crowley he needs a new purpose and it's going to be saving the world. He'll convince himself of it. And he'll push that broken heart down and the pain will fade if he just smiles through it. It will be enough, to make heaven better. It has to be. Maybe if he proves that he can make a difference Crowley might see the error of his ways and speak to him again? Surely. Hopefully.

---

Both of them are hurt and confused and lost and oh dear hell I really feel for them.

#good omens meta #good omens 2 meta #good omens s2e6 #gos2 spoilers #good omens 2 #good omens 2 analysis #gos2 meta #ineffable #ineffable husbands #aziraphale #crowley #good omens spoilers #gos2

[zaxal]

look at me. look me in the eyes.

at the bandstand crowley says "let's run away to alpha centauri together [implied: let earth be destroyed by armageddon and the great war, but at least We'll Be Together]"

and aziraphale says "i can fix this, i just have to talk to the right person, everything can go back to the way it was [implied: this is not ideal, but at least everything won't be destroyed, and if god steps in and says 'This Is Not The Plan, The Rest Of You Are Wrong And Aziraphale Is Right,' we won't be punished for stepping in.]"

and crowley says "well im going with or without you [implied: this is the end of our longstanding dynamic unless you change your mind]" and aziraphale says "ok, then go [implied: you no longer have obligations towards me, i don't expect you to save me this time.]"

they have this exact same conversation on the street, when aziraphale says "i forgive you." whatever happens next is not crowley's fault. he's willing to carry it all alone. he is SO prepared to do this that he's Shocked to find out crowley is still on earth after he's been discorporated.

and at the end of s2, we have crowley going "let's run away, we can be together, im willing to admit to the full breadth of what i want to have with you [implied: the earth will be destroyed]"

and aziraphale says, in more words, "we can fix this. you're right; talking isn't enough, we can take over, we can take action, AND we can be together. [implied: this is not ideal, but we can stop it, we can be together, we can Show them that we're right and there's a different choice they can make and if we're in a position of power, what could they do to us?]"

and crowley says "well i'm not going [implied: this is the end of our longstanding dynamic unless you change your mind]"

and aziraphale says "i forgive you [implied: you no longer have obligations towards me. i don't expect you to save me. whatever happens to me is not your fault. i'll carry everything alone.]"

it's the SAME conversation, and aziraphale is not the only one repeating the same lines and refusing to adjust his worldview to account for the changes in their relationship and the material realities of what their action or inaction would bring about.

they are both right. they are both wrong. they are both hurting because they never talked until there was 5 minutes left on the clock and not enough time to sort all of their shit out. there could have been a compromise; they didn't have enough time to reach it, so it's all desperation and emotions and discovering that, oh shit, we should've had a real conversation at some point in the last four years.

#good omens #ineffable spouses #good omens spoilers #i saw with mine own eyes someone say aziraphale would have forced crowley to return to heaven if he could #neither of them would force the other to do anything #except an apology dance #why are yall acting like aziraphale suddenly had a heel turn at the end of s2

[hiveswap]

The entire fandom would benefit from rewatching season 1 because i feel like far too many people are suffering from only remembering the fanworks disease.

Aziraphale kept information from Crowley and reported to heaven. It took him a long long time to finally take it into his own hands and do something to prevent the apocalypse. It took him until he spoke to Mettatron and got discorporated.

The bandstand scene's conflict is almost the same as what they argue about at the end of season 2. "Let's run away" vs. "No, I can still change heaven's mind"

No one is out of character, it's just that they haven't been given a good enough reason to realise these mindsets are harmful.

Maybe Aziraphale knows they wanted to execute him, maybe he knows how Gabriel was acting, but he's far too forgiving, far too willing to let bygones be bygones if it means the worldview he's supposed to believe (that heaven is inherently good) remains unchallanged.

And Crowley is still trying to run. He wanted to just kill the antichirst and be over with it, he wanted to run away from the apocalypse to alpha centauri, and he had no interest in being around Gabriel in season 2 because it threathened the "fragile existance he's carved out for himself." At the end he proposes going away again. He's avoidant, he's nervous. If you just put sunglasses over it it's like the serpent eyes were never there in the first place.

#good omens #good omens spoiler

[jillianallen14]

Incredibly proud of Crowley and how strong/brave he is in the finale

This is gonna be really long, so if you’re in a rush, here’s a TLDR: Crowley is hella brave for confessing to Aziraphale even after Aziraphale spoke first, especially given Aziraphale’s track record of rejecting him, and I’m so proud of him. I’m also proud of him for standing his ground and not giving in because he usually always does whatever Aziraphale asks eventually. Crowley needs to learn to truly stand on his own two feet in order to have a successful relationship with Aziraphale, and Aziraphale needs to learn how to choose/put Crowley first just as much as Crowley chooses him and puts him first. Basically, in human terms, Crowley currently has an anxious attachment style and Aziraphale has an avoidant one, and they both need to get to healthy attachment styles in order for them to work.   

See how long that tldr was? That’s what you’re in for if you read this whole thing lol. 

Alright, here we go. 

Disclaimer: I love Aziraphale so much, but I think he has a lot of work to do before he’s ready to “deserve” the kind of love Crowley is offering him. I also think he is 100% going to put in that work, though. 

So Crowley’s tried to advance things forward with Aziraphale many times over their thousands of years together, and usually these advances are rejected, though sometimes Aziraphale does come around. He’s the one who suggests the Arrangement (and sort of gets rejected at first). He’s the one who is constantly pushing the idea that the two of them are on their own team. He makes grand gestures, rescues Aziraphale, and he makes a lot of sacrifices. In the 1960′s, he tells Aziraphale that he’ll take him anywhere he wants to go, just to be told, “You go too fast for me, Crowley.” I sort of count this as “run away together” offer #1 because I think that’s what Crowley is subtextually offering here. His second offer of running away together is also rejected during the almost-apocalypse. He suggests Aziraphale stay at his place when Aziraphale’s bookshop burned down and is once again rejected, though not as directly as some of the others. Aziraphale calls their friendship/partnership “fraternizing” in the 1800s. In the bandstand fight scene, Aziraphale tells Crowley, “We’re not friends” and “I don’t even like you.” 

Of course, we as viewers know that Aziraphale says and does most of these things because he’s constantly trying to protect Crowley from Hell’s punishments. We know that Crowley is what Aziraphale loves most in the world, and honestly, Crowley probably knows it, too. But I’m sure that doesn’t stop the constant onslaught of rejection from hurting and from discouraging him from ever really wanting to have The Big Conversation (the “what are we and what do you want us to be” conversation, as it were lol). 

Crowley has been relentlessly chasing Aziraphale for literal thousands of years, and Aziraphale never really gives all of himself to Crowley in return. That’s got to sting, and that’s got to be so disheartening, even though Crowley is definitely aware Aziraphale does love him/care about him. We all give Crowley shit about not communicating properly, but imagine how hard that would be when he gets that kind of a reaction whenever he does try to communicate? It would certainly not make it any easier. 

In addition to the chasing that Crowley does, he is also the one to almost always give in and apologize. We’ve established that Aziraphale says no to many of the requests Crowley makes of him. And yes, often Crowley says no the first time Aziraphale makes requests of him as well, but Crowley usually comes around. And Crowley always apologizes, even when he really shouldn’t have to because Aziraphale was also at fault or, at the very least, they should both be apologizing. We rarely ever see Aziraphale actually apologize for the hurtful shit he says and does to Crowley. Yes, we know from season 2 that Aziraphale has done the apology dance, so we can infer apologies do happen from time to time, but how often do we actually see this? Not often. 

I love Aziraphale to death, but he has a “my way or the highway” mentality, and Crowley gives in like every single time lol. (Because we know Crowley is so in love it’s not even funny and would do pretty much anything to keep Aziraphale around. #Aziraphale fell first but Crowley fell harder (or at least accepted it earlier) #I will die on this hill). 

So now we get to their fight in the finale of season 2. 

Crowley was so ready to confess. Our boy was prepared. He probably sat in that bookshop rehearsing what he was going to say over and over [just thinking about this hurts my heart lol, ouch]. Then Aziraphale comes in and Crowley literally asks Aziraphale if he [Crowley] can talk first, and Aziraphale still interrupts him (lol, Aziraphale, come on). [I really do wonder how that scene would have gone if Aziraphale had let Crowley speak first; fanfic writers, I’m looking at you]

Then Aziraphale proceeds to say Crowley’s worst nightmare lol. We can literally see on Crowley’s face that his heart is already breaking, and I’m sure he knows there’s a good chance he’s about to receive “let’s run off/be together” rejection #3. To be fair, Aziraphale is literally also telling Crowley he wants to be together, but all Crowley seems to be hearing is the “in heaven, as angels” part. So at this point, Crowley can be pretty sure the love of his eternal life is “choosing Heaven” over him once again [we, as viewers, know this isn’t really the case, but Crowley doesn’t]. 

Yet, he interrupts Aziraphale. He makes Aziraphale let him talk, he doesn’t just let himself be talked over or unheard this time, and Crowley proceeds to confess anyway and practically does the Good Omens equivalent of asking Aziraphale to marry him. Like holy shit, y’all. That takes some massive balls. 

Crowley is “rejected” (kinda-sorta; Aziraphale isn’t rejecting Crowley this time, just the “running off” bit, but Crowley sees it as a rejection of him). Fighting ensues. Aziraphale says accidentally hurtful things because he’s just as bad at communicating as Crowley is lol (ie “Nothing lasts forever” instead of saying, “You matter more to me than this bookshop,” which is what he meant). Crowley is literally beyond heartbroken, you can see it all over his face, especially when he puts the sunglasses back on. And yet he still has the courage to kiss Aziraphale? BRO. BROOOOO. I want what Crowley has lol because he’s certifiably insane for having the balls to do that. 

I’ve seen people say that the kiss was the wrong thing for Crowley to do in that moment, but I don’t agree. They were still talking past each other, and Crowley needed to do something to make sure Aziraphale knew exactly what he was offering (marriage). Crowley needed to do that because if he didn’t, there was still going to be ambiguity, which would make their eventual resolution harder in the end. I also think Crowley just wanted to kiss him out of desperation because he thought it would be his last chance and because he wanted to show Aziraphale exactly what he was saying no to, but that’s beside the point. And yes, the kiss broke Aziraphale’s heart, but I truly and genuinely think Aziraphale needed to have his heart broken this time in order for him to grow. 

Then Aziraphale once again says something incredibly hurtful and rejects him again. And what does Crowley do? He doesn’t run away this time, like he usually does. He goes out by the Bentley and stands there and watches Aziraphale. I think he did this partly out of the desire to give Aziraphale one last chance and partly out of a desire to make Aziraphale sit there and look at him as he chooses Heaven again. Balls, man, I tell you. 

And Crowley doesn’t go back to him, and he doesn’t beg him to stay. And he doesn’t give himself up completely to be with this person who can’t accept him as he is. He lets himself be known, and then he holds his ground. He doesn’t let someone fundamentally change him just for love. He doesn’t lose himself to love. 

And this leads me to my next point, which is that this fight needed to happen because both Crowley and Aziraphale have lessons to learn. 

Crowley’s lesson is that he needs to learn how to stand on his own two feet. He needs to learn how to put himself first sometimes so that he doesn’t completely lose himself to Aziraphale. He needs to learn how to say no, to really say no. He needs to learn how to hold his boundaries. He needs to develop an identity outside of Aziraphale and what Aziraphale wants/needs him to be, discover what he wants even when Aziraphale isn’t around. He also needs to learn how to clearly state and ask for what he wants and needs. I think him learning this lesson will also help with his anger issues because the kind of people-pleasing self-effacement that Crowley does for Aziraphale only breeds resentment, which comes out every time they get in an argument. 

And Aziraphale’s lesson is that he needs to learn how to really choose Crowley, not try to change him, not try to pretend he’s something he’s not. He needs to learn how to take Crowley exactly as he is. He needs to learn how to give Crowley as much as Crowley gives him so that their partnership is on more of an equal footing. Essentially, his lesson is the opposite of Crowley’s: where Crowley needs to learn how to not lose himself completely to Aziraphale, Aziraphale needs to learn how to lose himself a little bit to Crowley. I’m not saying Aziraphale is selfish because he’s absolutely not, but I am saying that his sense of individuality is a little too strong and that doesn’t exactly work when you’re trying to have a long-term, committed relationship/partnership with someone because yes, you’re still an individual, but you’re also now part of a unit. And that requires making decisions together and genuinely hearing the other person out. It requires compromising, which Aziraphale is not particularly good at. 

Crowley needs to let go a little bit and Aziraphale needs to hold on a little tighter so that they can meet in the middle. You can see this in almost all of their fights. When things don’t go Aziraphale’s way, he immediately resorts to telling Crowley he can leave. Think of this as the two of them holding on to opposite ends of a taut rope: Crowley pulls a little too hard, and Aziraphale lets the rope loosen, leaving Crowley to fall backwards on his own. Aziraphale needs to learn how to hold onto that rope just a little tighter so that him and Crowley are putting in equal amounts of effort.

And folks, they’re gonna do it. They’re gonna put in the work. They’re gonna learn their lessons. And then they’re going to kiss and make up (preferably with Aziraphale initiating the kissing this time lol, let’s give poor Crowley a rest and let him be chased for once). And then we’re going to get the most beautiful, loving, healthy relationship. But they just have to go through this first. It’ll make their resolution so much more satisfying. 

So Aziraphale, it’s time to do some chasing.  

#good omens #good omens season 2 #good omens spoilers #go2spoilers #go2 #ineffable husbands #ineffable divorce #Crowley #aziraphale #aziracrow #neil gaiman

[actual-changeling]

Crowley does NOT want to run - A Summary

A small while ago, I wrote an extensive meta post about why Crowley's primary survival response is not flight, why exactly it is fight instead, and how it shows up throughout the centuries.

You can find the original post here, which is quite long but goes into way more detail than I will here.

I'm frankly getting tired of people claiming that Crowley always wants to flee, that this makes Aziraphale "right" in going back to heaven, and using it generally put Crowley down. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of who he is as a character and what that means for their relationship.

So, because long posts can scare people off, I will provide a summary.

Now, let's get into it, here are the reasons why Crowley is not a runner:

the Starmaker fought for their stars and against heaven in the revolution, which ended up with them falling and Crowley the demon emerging

by opposing existing rules and defying heaven's authority, he automatically started a fight; you cannot not fight under those circumstances

he continues to question God and defies both heaven's and hell's commands repeatedly, see Job, the subtextual implications that he saved children from the flood, hanging out with Jesus and taking him traveling, proposing the Arrangement, and acting based on what HE decides is the moral thing to do over and over

just because a fight is not physical doesn't mean it isn't one

Crowley's first response to the impeding apocalypse was to start coming up with a plan to stop it, Aziraphale had to be talked into it and only agreed for selfish reasons

to quote myself: The reason why both heaven and hell absolutely loathe him is not because he is a runner; it's because he constantly and consistently defies them. He fights.

Crowley wants to deal with the Gabriel problem and attempts to come up with plans over and over again while Aziraphale shoots him down and solves exactly nothing

Crowley is the one who wants to fight the demons outside to protect the humans inside the bookshop, meanwhile Aziraphale is abusing his powers to put on a puppet show with human beings

in the final fifteen, he does not suggest running away, he suggest finding a new safe space, because the bookshop can now be accessed by both sides without problems

the one and ONLY TIME Crowley actually wants to run away is not at the bandstand—he is talking about 'if' and running as a contingency plan—but later when he finds Aziraphale on the street; in that moment, he is 100% certain (and correct) that hell is about to drag him down to torture him for all eternity. Who wouldn't run from a fight you cannot possibly win?

When Aziraphale refuses to come, he STAYS AND FIGHTS despite everything, because freedom means nothing to him without Aziraphale there.

Questions? Feel free to ask them (politely), but please read the original post first and see if I answered them there.

#alex talks good omens #good omens #crowley #crowley meta #good omens meta #good omens season 2 #go2 #aziraphale #aziracrow #crowley x aziraphale #ineffable husbands #ineffable wives #ineffable spouses #ineffable divorce #the final fifteen

[thesherrinfordfacility]

aziraphale constantly expresses his admiration and adoration for crowley by telling him he's nice, and good, and thanks him for what he does for him, calls him all the time to tell him things, "our car" and "our bookshop". and then dear, sweet crowley, who cannot go a single minute without doing something for aziraphale, driving him around everywhere, looking after and tidying the bookshop, indulging him in his earthly pleasures and quaint little hobbies, saving him even when he doesn't necessarily ask to be saved, "little demonic miracle of my own" and "alright, I'll do that one, my treat."

their methods of communicating their - friendship, affection, love - are set.

let's look at the bandstand, where crowley offers to magic them away, away from earth and the loom of armageddon, and aziraphale retaliates with stating that they're not friends and he's doesn't even like him. let's look at the So Did I argument, where crowley offers to whisk gabriel away and dump him on the moors so aziraphale doesnt have to deal with it and is no longer under threat from the former archangel, and aziraphale practically begs crowley to stay, that he'd "love [him] to help [him]".

their methods of communicating their - friendship, affection, love - are being rejected; they're not working.

let's look at 1967, where aziraphale gives in to giving crowley the holy water, but refuses the lift to anywhere he wants to go, and crowley offers to thank aziraphale, but refuses to hear aziraphale's verbal concerns about the danger it poses to him, "you told me what you think - 105 years ago." let's look at the final fifteen, where aziraphale offers to restore crowley to what he thinks crowley has always been yearning for, and crowley tries to tell aziraphale exactly what he means to him, put it into words what he hopes aziraphale will see through and understand.

their methods of communicating their - friendship, affection, love - are swapped, and break them apart altogether.

swapping those methods, in a guesswork effort to reach the other person better, isn't the answer. the action, and what is being said, is what needs to change. crowley offers things that aziraphale doesn't want, or goes against who he is fundamentally, and aziraphale says things that wound crowley deeply, reducing what they are to nothing in a few sharp words. so instead crowley tries to use words, and aziraphale tries to offer an act of devotion; but this doesn't work either - arguably, it's worse!

what they communicate needs to be clearer, not how. crowley needs to stay with aziraphale when he promises that he will, and not attempt to solve problems by running from what he doesn't want to face, threatening to abandon him in the process. aziraphale needs to express outright, plainly, what crowley needs to hear; that exactly as he is, everything that he is, is everything that aziraphale wants and respects and loves. and to be able to do that, they need start by giving each other the respect of acknowledging their respective boundaries, their fears, and what principles are important to them.

they've had their methods right all along, but what they're currently saying with them doesn't make sense. it's the french all over again; the words can be translated, "but you understood me!", but that doesn't mean that it makes any sense.

#once again another rambling noone asked for but robyn got the wheels turning #i have Issues with the LLs but they can be useful in recognising characters' behaviours even if a little (very) reductive #good omens #crowley meta #aziraphale meta

[hikarry]

Aziraphale and Crowley are a mirror of one another.

Angel/Demon

Gentle/Hard

Trusting/Distrust

Book Smart/Street Smart

I could go on, but I want to focus on this: Rational/Emotional

Through both seasons, we can see a clear line between Aziraphale and Crowley

Aziraphale wanting to speak with Heaven before agreeing with Crowley's plan to stop Armageddon. Keeping the information about the Anti-Christ to himself. Helping Gabriel. Going back to Heaven. All those decisions were made on a rational basis. Aziraphale's own version of rational, surely, but rational nonetheless. It makes absolutely sense in his head, and those decisions are not based on emotions but the facts he has at the moment.

Crowley, on the other hand, has a tendency to lash out and let his emotions take the wheel when it comes to making decisions or in his life in general, really. His constant offers to run away together. His decision to give up on stopping Armageddon when Aziraphale supposedly died in the fire. His outburst when he refused to help Aziraphale with Gabriel. The kiss. All those were emotional responses.

While Aziraphale is more cold and calculated, Crowley is a bundle of emotions and a mess of feelings. Sure, sometimes Aziraphale is emotional (aka in the Apocalypse when he begs Crowley to come up with a solution or else-) and Crowley can be rational (aka telling Aziraphale that speaking to his superiors won't stop shit because the Almighty isn't speaking to anyone), but that's not their default.

This is yet another way they balance each other. Aziraphale keeps Crowley grounded, and Crowley gives Aziraphale some liberty to feel.

Hell, for example, when Armageddon is starting, Crowley is a bit too busy having a meltdown over the Bentley until Aziraphale snaps him out of it and brings him back to reason.

But this is also the reason behind most of their fights:

The proposal of the Arrangement.

The Holy Water situation in 1800s.

The bandstand.

The street in front of the bookshop.

The backroom.

The whole Metraton business.

In all those situations, we watch Aziraphale's rationality and Crowley's emotions clashing because, when it comes to important decisions, they don't speak the same language. They are in different wave lengths. And until they find the middle ground, they will never be able to communicate.

#good omens #crowley #aziraphale #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #david tennant #michael sheen #anthony j crowley

[bartzabell]

The problem with Aziraphale and Crowley’s belief system is how different they are (i can hear you say ‘’duh angel/demon’’ but hear me out) Aziraphale’s biggest flaw is how self sacrificing he is and opposed to that, Crowley’s biggest flaw is how selfish he is when it comes to himself and Aziraphale together. Let me explain in detail. Even in s1, we saw them clashing about this in the bandstand and after in front of the bookshop.

‘’Even if this all end up in a pile of burning goo, we can go off together!’’ ‘’We can run away together!’’ ’’We need to get away from them, just be an us.’’

Said Crowley, even though he loves humanity and earth, the only thing that’s important to him is Aziraphale. This is where his selfishness comes from, he just cares about Aziraphale. He doesn’t care about saving anything else, he just wants them to be happy together at the moment and doesn’t think about the long run but we all know even if they run away together like Gabriel and Beelzebub, Heaven and Hell will never leave them alone for the eternity. It’s not gonna work in the long run, this is what Crowley can’t see, he’s blinded by the love he has for Aziraphale.

For Aziraphale… He’s too self sacrificing for his own good. In both seasons, we’ve seen him losing hope in Heaven, never in the Almighty, but in Heaven’s system.

‘’I’m sure if i can just reach the right people i can sort this out. I’ll have a word with the Almighty and it’ll be fixed’’ ‘’If i’m in charge, i can make a difference.’’ ‘’We can make a difference, I need you.’’

He thinks the system is broken and if he joins the system, he thinks he can fix it. He needs to fix it because if he won’t, things will never get better, only worse. He’s willing to risk everything he got in order to perfect Heaven. It includes leaving his bookshop, includes having to choose blood over love… And this is what Aziraphale can’t see, he can’t save everything. He’s sacrificing his own happiness in order to perfect something he can’t. In our eyes, it’s easier to dogpile on Aziraphale because as a viewer, we all root for them to become together and just like Crowley, we don’t care about the long run. We just want them to kiss each other back and be happy for that moment. 

#good omens #ineffable husbands #Aziraphale #crowley #don't mind me

[inconveniently-discorporated]

Season 2 thoughts on character growth, and whether there was any...

I respectfully disagree with some of the viewpoints that the choices made at the end of s2 brought the characters right back to where they were, or that it undid all the growth they went through during s1.

The MAIN reason I say that, is this:

The final scene mirrors the bandstand scene SO much.

Crowley is asking them to run away together, and Aziraphale is saying they can't. Or, he won't.

Crowley is not tied to either side, he is tied to "us". Aziraphale is tied to Heaven.

But it's not the SAME argument. At the bandstand, Aziraphale is pushing Crowley away. Crowley WON'T and CAN'T join him in Heaven, but Aziraphale cannot find it within him to leave. Heaven is the source of good! It is godly! It is everything just and right in the world! He has to do a lot of gaslighting to himself to believe that, but that's where he's coming from.

He's telling Crowley it's over, they're not on the same side, they can't be together.

The argument in the bookshop is very, very similar, but fundamentally different.

This time, they are both screaming their love for one another. They are not TRYING to push the other away, they are both pulling on opposite ends of the rope trying to pull the other one back to them.

Aziraphale still has not let go of Heaven, but this time he makes it clear: Heaven is BROKEN. Heaven SHOULD be all of those things that Aziraphale thought it was, but it isn't. But maybe he could fix it. And he doesn't want to fix it alone -- he WANTS Crowley, he NEEDS Crowley.

In season 1, Aziraphale's mindset was, "I just have to talk to the right people, and THEY will fix everything."

In season 2, Aziraphale's mindset is, "There are no right people, we have to BE the right people. I can fix Crowley, and then WE can fix everything and Crowley and I could be happy together."

That's not to say there aren't things that have stayed the same, things that they haven't learned yet and still need to.

I think one of the things that Aziraphale doesn't understand yet though -- and one thing that he STILL needs to realize -- is that the problem isn't in the labels. One thing that has remained the same is that Aziraphale still sees them as an angel and a demon, and if only he could "fix" this for Crowley, everything would be better, all of that demonic trauma will go away, and Crowley can be the joyous angel he was.

Crowley's side of the argument is very similar, but also different. He hears everything Aziraphale has to say about Heaven, and still opens up to him. He still pours his heart out about his feelings and how they should be together. He doesn't put the walls up until the very end, and even then, even then -- he doesn't just leave immediately like he did before. He kisses Aziraphale, he shows him just what exactly is on the line, and then he watches Aziraphale go.

He isn't going to let Aziraphale just make this decision without having to look him in the face as he does it. He stands by the Bentley, and makes it clear that HE is not the one walking away this time -- Aziraphale is. He can't be in the bookshop anymore -- and what kind of sanctuary is it now anyway -- but he hasn't gone anywhere.

What he still doesn't understand is Aziraphale's point of view. He understands his own point of view, having presumably seen a high-level view of Heaven, one in which he was asked to create, but never told "oh no not like that" until it was too late. Aziraphale was evidently told that. From the very beginning, Aziraphale understands that one mustn't ask questions, he understands that it is not HIS position to create.

Crowley says that extreme sanctions were something they just joked about to scare the cherubs. He has access to high-level material. He clearly has seen Heaven from a privileged vantage point, and he fell from that high place. Aziraphale's demeanor tells me his position was closer to Muriel's -- respect the higher authorities. What Heaven is now, was what Heaven has ALWAYS been for Aziraphale.

Heaven is flawed to Aziraphale, but as a whole it is not that different from the Heaven that was, when Crowley was happy there. I don't think that Crowley understands why Aziraphale doesn't understand why he can never go back. I don't think he understands why Aziraphale can't see that it isn't just the fall that hurt him, because Aziraphale doesn't feel the enormity of what Crowley lost.

What is interesting is that now Aziraphale will get to see, when he's "in charge". I think that season 3 will see that growth in both of them -- I think Aziraphale will finally understand that perspective.

And I could also see that maybe Aziraphale will find a way to make a difference. Maybe it irrevocably changes Heaven and Hell forever. Either way, I bet it will take both of their perspectives together to make it work, and both of their perspectives will change for the better so they can finally let go of everything that happened and finally be fully free together.

#good omens #gos2 spoilers #good omens meta #ineffable husbands

[inafever]

On facing problems and having different ways of dealing with it:

Nevermind the final scene, nevermind the season 2 even, Ever since the beginning this has been the way in which they tried to deal with problems

Crowley by running away and ignoring them

Aziraphale by trying to solve the problems and doing everything he can think of to do so

Here's the compilation of moments in which we see them faced with a conflict: the bandstand , alpha centauri , Gabriel (there are even more examples but you understand the pattern here) I've linked you to separate posts cause I can't add more than one videos to a post.

This is the important bit guys, It's not a matter of not loving the other one enough to make a compromise (not anymore) neither it's because of Aziraphale's great deal of faith in heaven (NOT ANYMORE)

Even when Aziraphale was disappointed in heaven's help with the apocalypse, he kept trying, when he was disappointed in Crowley's help with Gabriel, he kept trying. Cause that's what he does, that's who he is

You see, that's how each time they have disastrous fights in such situations. Even with both of them absolutely wanting the same thing, they have completely different ideas of how to achieve it.

And I insist both of them want the same thing in each case.

#good omens #good omens 2 #good omens season two #gos2 #gomens #gomens 2 #gos2 spoilers #good omens spoilers #good omens season 2 #aziraphale #crowley #ineffable husbands #good omens meta #good omens analysis #good omens 2 theory #neil gaiman

[knaccblog]

Aziraphale and "I Forgive You"

So after I watched the first season a few times however many years ago, I noticed something, wrote up a bit of a meta about it and then never posted it. I thought that it was either very obvious or very silly and either way, no one needed to see it. But now it's several years and another season later and again, I'm noticing the exact same thing so here it goes- I think the reason Aziraphale keeps saying that he forgives Crowley has overall very little to do with what Crowley has just done right before Aziraphale says it and much more to do with a secret Aziraphale hides deep within himself and has for thousands of years, a truth that he hates to acknowledge and is terrified to speak aloud: he thinks God is wrong to have not Forgiven Crowley.

Get settled in because this is gonna take a bit.

The first time I started noticing this really clearly is the Bandstand Breakup scene. Crowley starts by cussing God literally out- "For the record, great, pustulant, mangled bollocks to the Great blasted Plan." To which Aziraphale says, "May you be forgiven." And yes, Crowley has just sinned and Aziraphale is a stuffy angel but the way Aziraphale says it is like a hope, atleast to my ears. Like he's really wishing that God will see how good Crowley truly is and bring him back to Heaven even though he keeps doing stupid stuff like this

Anyway, Crowley then responds with, "I won't be forgiven. Not ever. Part of a demon's job description. Unforgivable. That's what I am." And Aziraphale responds again with a hopeful sounding, "You were an angel once." At this point, I was almost sure that he's talking about his personal wishes here. It sounds like he's saying, "Come on, Crowley. There's a chance." To which Crowley responds, "That was a long time ago," basically saying it's impossible and shutting that whole bit of the conversation down. And you can just watch Aziraphale's face fall at that, like it kills him for that to be true. 

The next time the topic of forgiveness and Crowley comes up is when Crowley shows up to beg Aziraphale to run away with him one last time. In this conversation, Aziraphale is very adamant that if he talks to the right people, they won't want the apocalypse and they'll stop it. He, of course, thinks this because his most core belief is that God is good and that even if we don't understand how what God is doing is good right now, it will lead to goodness eventually via the Rube Goldburg machine which is time and the universe etc aka God is ineffable. But even Aziraphale can't imagine how the ineffable Rube Goldburg machine could turn an event where everything on earth dies into a good one so therefore, he's certain that God doesn't want the Apocalypse.

Crowley responds to this hope with, "You're so clever. How can someone as clever as you be so stupid?" to which Aziraphale responds, "I forgive you" in a very gentle but sure tone. And now yes, while it is entirely possible that Aziraphale is forgiving Crowley for calling him stupid, I've always felt like that would be a rather weighty response considering how mild an insult it is. It's also possible (and I feel slightly more likely) that Aziraphale is forgiving Crowley for his lack of faith, his inability to believe in the goodness of God anymore. 

And that could definitely be it, but if we think about the way Aziraphale had talked about forgiveness at the Bandstand, the hope and desire that he seemed to put into the idea of forgiveness and Crowley and the fact that Crowley had dismissed it as entirely impossible for him to ever be forgiven, than a third read of Aziraphale's "I forgive you" emerges: one in which Aziraphale is saying, "While God might never forgive you, I do". It's "I might never see you again since you intend to run away to the stars but if this is the last time I ever see you, I want you to know that I think you are deserving of forgiveness. That I see the good in you even if God can't." It's a combination "I love you" and small rebellion against God, because while Aziraphale can't bring himself to give up on Her completely and run away with Crowley (even though a part of him clearly wants to), he is willing to say that She's done this one thing wrong and it's never forgiving Crowley, who Aziraphale can see clearly is more kind and good than any of the angels he knows.

So yeah, that was about where the idea rested at the end of the first season but now we have a bunch of new historical scenes and a new "I forgive you" following a very loaded conversation in which Aziraphale got extremely excited by the idea of Crowley being reinstated as an Angel and I felt like this idea has even more legs than before. 

To me, it's very clear that Aziraphale's pitch for Crowley to come back to Heaven isn't him hoping to "reset" Crowley to how he was before the Fall or him being incapable of loving Crowley as a Demon and instead was him being overjoyed to have this secret truth (Crowley is deserving of God's Forgiveness) that he's been observing for 6000ish years be acknowledged and have a chance to come to fruition. After all, as we saw this season (and honestly last season too but less pronounced), Crowley, current Demon Crowley, not the angel he knew over 6000 years ago, has proven over and over again just how truly good he is to Aziraphale.

For example, in the Job sequence, Crowley does a truly good thing that no Angel (beside Aziraphale) would do or even think that they should do and that is save Job's children. And through the entirety of this bit, Aziraphale basically always believes that he will. There are even two moments where Crowley tries his best to scare Aziraphale away, to play up being the bad guy (so as to better hide the con he's running and protect Aziraphale), but Aziraphale's faith in Crowley's goodness does not falter. At the end of the day, it seems clear that Aziraphale has more faith that Crowley will do the good thing, the correct thing than God. Conveniently for Aziraphale's faith in God though, not understanding how something horrible he hates will eventually lead to goodness in the long run is a foundational principle of said faith so his faith in God remains strong even after everything She and Heaven do to Job. 

But his faith in Crowley doesn't require such a complicated work around. He believes Crowley won't kill children and he is correct. Though unfortunately, this very simplicity leads to a new problem, a problem that we can see eventually solidify in Aziraphale's mind, becoming a running theme of their association and leading to the eventual "I forgive you"s.

Aziraphale can clearly see how kind and good Crowley is, how he does the right thing as best he can, even when he could (and sometimes does) get into immense trouble for it. But for some reason, despite repeated evidence that Crowley is everything that Aziraphale believes Angels are and should be, Crowley continues to be a Demon. And once you realize that Aziraphale has noticed this contradiction and that it most likely haunts him and is a constant challenge to his worldview, it colors a lot of what he says in a new light. Many of what seem like simple, self-righteous statements reveal themselves to be Aziraphale trying to protecting himself from a massive logical inconsistency he keeps stumbling across. 

"It must be bad, otherwise you wouldn't have tempted them into it," Aziraphale says, clearly not quite sure why it's bad actually. 

"You, I'm afraid, are evil," Aziraphale asserts, basically stating that Crowley is evil because he's evil. It's tauntological and therefore doesn't have to make sense. (He says this one shortly before Crowley saves Elsbeth from suicide, poverty and damnation.) 

"So this is all your demonic work? I should have known," Aziraphale says, thinking, "Aha, this time Crowley must have done the bad thing and therefore continues to deserve being Fallen." (Crowley has, in fact, not done the bad thing but shhhh, worry about that later.) 

Once you notice this self defensive habit, you can't unnotice it really, it's just so present in Aziraphale's logic and speech. Aziraphale even at one point says, "Still a demon, then?" after the Ark and Job and Jesus because on some level he probably doesn't want to actually evaluate, it makes no sense to him that Crowley is still a Demon, especially when he has also sinned in a few ways (lied to Gabriel, thwarted the will of God, technically gluttony etc) and nothing has happened to him, to say nothing for all the things Gabriel has done (or has just let passively happen without a thought to interfere).

So yes, I think the entire final argument plays out the way it does because Aziraphale thinks Crowley is good and deserves to be reinstated, to be forgiven by God more than anything. 

He comes into their final conversation nervous but excited, to the point where he stomps right over what Crowley is trying to say. "You see I... I have some incredible good news to give you." The good news is for Crowley, you see, because Crowley deserves this and clearly being forgiven like he so deserves should logically make Crowley happy. It will make Aziraphale happy after all. 

Aziraphale then starts to describe the conversation that he had with Metatron, stating that he thinks he might have misjudged him. And why would he think that he misjudged the angel who had told him point blank to his face that "The point is not to avoid the war, it is to win it" about the Apocalypse? Well, it's not because he's offered the job of Supreme Archangel, that's for sure. As we can see in the flashback, Aziraphale seems nervous and uninterested in the job at first. He says clearly that he doesn't want to go back to Heaven and even brings up a very half assed excuse to try and weasel out of it, a soft no of, "Where will I get my coffee?" 

No, instead, the clear, obvious point where Aziraphale changes his mind about the job and about the Metatron is when he offers to reinstate Crowley as an Angel. Metatron has, quite accidentally (I think? I don't think he actually knows Aziraphale's secret soul), just said one of the most faith affirming things he possibly could to Aziraphale, "We can correct that little error that's been bothering you. You are completely correct that Crowley deserves God's forgiveness." 

Given that, it's understandable that Aziraphale is absolutely bubbly about Crowley's reinstatement when he mentions it to him, like the best thing ever has just happened to him even though he's talking about something that will happen to Crowley and not him at all. "You could come back to heaven and- and everything. Like the old times, only even nicer." (Nicer because this time, they are in love. Nicer because they'll both be powerful enough to make a difference.)

Some other bits of Aziraphale's dialogue from this scene that make so much sense through this lens are:

After Crowley tries to reiterate his constant stance that both sides are bad actually, and mentions how he rejected Hell's offer to work with them again, Aziraphale misses his point completely and says, "But well, obviously you said no to Hell, you're the bad guys. But Heaven, it's the side of truth, of light, of good." Aziraphale's faith in the potential goodness of Heaven and the actual goodness of God is unflappable but so is his belief that good is what Crowley wants to be doing. Like of course a good soul like Crowley would reject working for Hell again but why would he reject a chance to do good like he's sneakily been doing all along? (Aziraphale here ignores the fact that he's also had to sneakily do good on the side sometimes even though he was always working for "the side of good" but that is very par for the course for him sadly.) 

The lines, "Come with me- to heaven. I'll run it, you can be my second in command. We can make a difference," are a particularly telling set.  Everything about these from the high position he's offering Crowley to the "We" scream that Aziraphale trusts Crowley, a Demon, to guide Heaven the correct way more than any angel already in Heaven.

Aziraphale's final, desperate argument also lines up well with this (as well as featuring Aziraphale more completely referencing how he wants him and Crowley to be together romantically). "Come back, to heaven. Work with me! We can be together. Angels... Doing good. I- I need you! I don't think you understand what I'm offering you." Like is the "I need you" here romantic? Definitely. But it's also Aziraphale again affirming that he trusts Crowley to lead him the correct way ie goodness, because, as it's been shown to us many times (and focused on particularly in this season), Crowley will do and always has been doing the correct thing as best he could while Aziraphale would dither and be locked into passivity (like in The Resurrectionists).

So yes, after many attempts to explain to Crowley how he should be in Heaven, doing good and Aziraphale needs his help and one last desperate kiss from Crowley, we reach the final dreaded, "l forgive you." And yes, maybe Aziraphale is forgiving Crowley for not having faith that they can fix heaven, for abandoning him, for kissing him so suddenly. But I hope, after everything I've laid out here in this essay, you can also see why I think Aziraphale is saying, "Even as you reject God's forgiveness and leave me behind, I still see that you are good and know you deserve it so I will forgive you anyway." And maybe, even though it's still blasphemous to disagree with God, it's less scary for Aziraphale to say "I forgive you" one more time than tell Crowley that he loves him for the first time. He is very good at forgiveness after all.

#good omens #good omens meta #ineffable husbands #aziraphale #aziracrow #ineffable partners #crowley #good omens crowley #good omens season two #good omens s2 #GOS2 Spoilers #Fingers crossed that next season Aziraphale realizes that while yes #Crowley is quite good #he doesn't need to be forgiven because he is in fact the wronged party here but we shall see #My GO Thoughts and Feels #I sure do hope it's apparent how much I love Aziraphale from this and it doesn't come across super negatively #This is forever a no Aziraphale hate allowed zone #but yes I spent forever writing this #so I hope it's clear #I need to post more of these sorry I'm a coward lols

[secretsofblackthornhall]

Emma to Cristina

Dear Cristina,

I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m so sorry! I realize the message I just sent you probably didn’t make a lick of sense, so after you’ve read it, toss it and read this. I was in kind of a hysterical state when I wrote it — I’ve been wanting to tell you all about what was going on with Mina being kidnapped for days, but I couldn’t. Then, when I could, it all just kind of poured out. Again, sorry!

It was awful not being able to say anything to you about what was happening. I’ve always hated politics, as you know—but however unusual your (and Mark’s) position, the Seelie Court would certainly consider you part of Kieran’s retinue, and we were expressly forbidden from contacting either Court about the fact that Mina was kidnapped right out of her bedroom here at Blackthorn Hall. And we obeyed to the letter.

So, it turned out the person who’d spearheaded the kidnapping was Mother Hawthorn, the nursemaid to the First Heir, who chose to marry a Shadowhunter. She’s had a complicated relationship with Shadowhunters, especially Herondales (who DOESN’T have a complicated relationship with Herondales, I ask you) ever since — and now she was demanding to see Kit if we ever wanted to get Mina back.

Nobody wanted Kit to do it, even though everyone was desperately afraid for Mina. But he was determined. There was no stopping him. So arrangements were made through a bunch of faerie go-betweens for Kit to meet Mother Hawthorn. She had demanded a rendezvous near river water, so we went down to the Promenade in Chiswick. There’s an itty bitty park there, and a little bandstand. We all — me and Julian, Tessa and Jem and Kit — walked down there, pretty quietly and somberly. Tessa kept stroking Kit’s back, and it was clear she was trying not to cry. Jem looked like he wanted to kill someone. Kit just looked determined. And Jules — well, I’ll get to Jules.

We stayed some distance away while Kit crossed the dry grass toward the bandstand. As he approached, Mother Hawthorn came out of the trees, holding Mina, and started walking toward him.

Jules and I both tensed up, in case either Jem or Tessa made a break for the baby. We wouldn’t have blamed them, but we knew they couldn’t be allowed to do it – Kit had to be able to try to get Mina without a violent fight. All I can say is, you can kind of see how much they’ve both been through and endured over all the time they've been alive. They clutched each other’s hands and neither of them moved, even though you could see how desperately they wanted to run to their children. It was an incredible display of control, and heart-breaking too.

Kit and Mother Hawthorn came together in front of the bandstand. Of course we couldn’t hear anything of their conversation, but we could see that Mina immediately put her arms out for Kit. Kit tried to reach for her, but Mother Hawthorn held up a hand. She clearly wouldn’t give her back, and they started arguing. I could tell how angry Kit was, even though he was trying to hold onto control. He kept shaking his head no over and over, almost every time Mother Hawthorn spoke.

Anyway, after a couple of minutes of that, Mother Hawthorn started to laugh. She looked over — she clearly saw us and didn’t care — and snapped her fingers. Kit was flung to the ground; he rolled over and came up on his feet, but by then black vines were whipping up out of the ground, slashing at him, winding around his legs. Mina was screaming so loudly we could hear her.

“That’s enough,” Jem snarled, and started across the street. But Julian put a hand on his shoulder.

“Wait,” he said, and we all stared at him — you know I have utter faith in Julian, but for a moment even I wondered if he’d gone crazy.

And then. Then there was this huge noise. I thought it was a helicopter at first, or maybe a bunch of helicopters, but then I realized no, the sound was stranger than that — it was hooves, beating against the sky. They passed over us and—it was Gwyn and Diana! I mean, it was the whole Wild Hunt, there were a couple dozen of them, some on horses, some on winged creatures I’d never seen before. But in front was Gwyn, with Diana on another horse behind him, her hair streaming out behind her.

Diana swooped down and grabbed Mina right out of Mother Hawthorn’s arms. Gwyn was right behind her, and seized up Mother Hawthorn in one arm—that guy is, uh, pretty strong I guess—and kind of slung her over the back of his horse. It looked pretty dangerous for Mother Hawthorn but you know, not a lot of sympathy for kidnappers here.

Diana swooped (the Wild Hunt does a lot of swooping, as you may recall) over to us, and gently handed Mina off to Jem and Tessa. Then Diana winked at us and rose back into the sky, and she and Gwyn and the whole rest of the Hunt ascended faster than I would have thought possible. I guess they had to get Mother Hawthorn away from us, which made sense. Anyway, they disappeared into the clouds and were gone.

I have to say, Diana’s wink was pretty badass. It made me miss doing badass stuff, a little. I think I’ll take Cortana out back tonight and seriously behead some weeds.

So anyway. Kit was running back toward us, and Tessa was crying in relief and Jem was staring at where the Wild Hunt had disappeared. Mina, of course, was fine. She kept saying, “Horsies!” which was hilarious, and then Kit got there and started fussing over her, and Julian and I stepped away to give the four of them space for their reunion.

Julian had one of those Looks on his face, and I had a hunch. “That was you, right?” I said. “You contacted the Wild Hunt.”

He shrugged. “Mother Hawthorn said not to contact the Seelie and Unseelie Courts, but the Wild Hunt is neither. They don’t swear allegiance to anybody.”

“Neither does Mother Hawthorn,” I said. “So it was like, ‘Wild fey, come get your wild friend, she is getting too wild?’”

“Something like that,” he said, and his voice was casual but I could tell he was pleased with himself. And all right, fine, I was pleased with him too, and I told him so.

On the way back to the house we asked Kit what it was Mother Hawthorn even wanted. He said she wanted to tell him he was the descendent of the first you-know-who (I know Kieran has told you something about Kit’s faerie heritage, but not all of it, and most people don't know) and that she had come to take him to live in Faerie where he belongs. He said he tried to make it clear that he didn’t want to live in Faerie, that he was satisfied with the life he had (although he kind of looked over at Jem and Tessa while he said it and I think satisfied is maybe less embarrassing to say than how he actually feels, which is much better than that). She just kept telling him it was his destiny and his duty, his fate would come for him soon enough if he didn’t bend to it, blah blah faerie stuff, you know how they are. (Uh, no offense if you’re reading this too, Kieran.)

I don’t think he was telling the whole truth, though, because Mother Hawthorn went to a lot of trouble just to send a message like that. I mean she could have put that on a postcard. It wasn’t anything Kit didn’t already know, basically. I am sure there was more she said that Kit didn’t want to share — I could tell from his expression. I hope he’ll tell Jem and Tessa, when he’s ready. At least we can be pretty sure Gwyn will make sure Mother Hawthorn stays away from him  — it’s one less thing to worry about.

That’s about all the news from here, and I’m so relieved to be able to share it with you finally. I guess if Kieran needs more information he should reach out to Gwyn; I’ve told you pretty much all I know.

Take care, and talk to you soon, and love to K and M!

Emma

#sobh #secrets of blackthorn hall #emma carstairs #cristina rosales #kit herondale #mina carstairs #julian blackthorn #the wild hunt #diana and gwyn #diana wrayburn #mother hawthorn #jem carstairs #tessa gray

[wee-snek]

“I forgive you” parallels

Ok. Listen up, my little sweet potatoes. I figured something out.

I previously posted about how I thought the Final Fifteen “I forgive you” might be code.

And then today I went for like a 6 hour aimless drive to clear my head, and, yeah, I have audio recordings of a few of my favourite GO scenes, which I listen to on repeat sometimes as an auditory stim. And I noticed a few interesting parallels, and I think I’ve cracked it.

We, as the audience, have seen a few things only once before.

Season 1, after the Bandstand Breakup, outside the bookshop, Crowley is back and saying ‘let’s run away together’. In this conversation, we see the only on-screen instance (before the Final Fifteen) of Crowley calling Aziraphale stupid, and the only previous time Aziraphale has used the specific phrase “I forgive you”. If we take this and the bandstand together, we also have very likely the only previous time Crowley has been bold enough to say ‘let’s go off together’.

So what happens in Season 1?

1. Armageddon Part I is imminent.

2. Crowley suggests they run away together.

3. Aziraphale says ‘no, I’m going to stay and work with heaven to fix things’.

4. Crowley calls Aziraphale “stupid” for taking sides and believing heaven cares about good.

5. Aziraphale says ‘I forgive you’.

6. Crowley leaves.

7. Aziraphale talks to the Metatron and gets transported to heaven against his will, and is expected to fight for their cause.

8. Crowley waits for him.

9. Aziraphale comes back to Crowley.

10. They work together and things turn out okay.

Does any of that sound familiar?!?

Let’s look at how the Final Fifteen plays out:

1. Armageddon Part II is imminent

2. Crowley suggests they run away together.

3. Aziraphale says ‘no, I’m going to stay and work with heaven to fix things’.

4. Crowley calls Aziraphale an “idiot” for taking sides and believing heaven cares about good. (Also: you’re an idiot for choosing heaven over me).

5. Aziraphale says ‘I forgive you’.

6. Crowley leaves.

7. Aziraphale talks to the Metatron and gets transported to heaven (against his will?), and is expected to fight for their cause.

8. Crowley waits for him.

I mean….

Is there any chance at all that either of them doesn’t remember the first time they had this conversation? That they’re not also seeing the parallels?

That Aziraphale isn’t getting flashbacks to Armageddon, that he isn’t aware that something could go terribly wrong here, but that he has to try and, please, Crowley, be here when I get back?

Listen, when I say “I forgive you” I know we’re only halfway through this dance? Wait for me. I’ll come back to you.

(I wasn’t going to add this, but the only time Aziraphale has used to the word ‘idiot’ is when he said “I’m not an idiot, Crowley” when he thought Crowley was going to use the holy water on himself and that’s some foreshadowing I don’t really want to explore).

#I’ve connected the two dots #good omens #good omens meta #good omens theory #good omens theories #good omens final fifteen #good omens 2 #crowley #aziraphale #crowley x arizaphale #ineffible husbands #ineffible divorce #Metatron #good omens parallels #ineffible