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harlivy-timkon-supremacy · 1 year

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GUYS CAN WE **PLEASE** TALK ABOUT THIS

DO YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT DAMIAN GAVE TO EACH OF HIS FELLOW BAT SIBLINGS??? Because these are all real established items in DC canon!!

I’m going to work my way back from Dick, because, OMG.

Damian gave Dick the Sword of Sin. If that sounded vaguely familiar to you, you might be an Azrael fan because that is his preferred blade to use. What is so special about this sword??? It’s ability: The Sword of Sin can be ignited with the mind of the wielder, if the person is powerful enough. The sword has the ability to conjure in the mind of its victims all of the sins for which they are guilty or have not atoned for. Golly gee, I wonder who this might be super effective against. You know. Giant bat guy with a guilt complex bigger than Texas. You can bet your butt Dick is going to send Bruce through a series of ‘Nam war flashbacks before this series is over. I can absolutely see why Damian would give Dick this weapon here, as he’s known Bruce the longest. I can easily see what part in this story Dick is going to be playing as he clearly has the most directly effective weapon against Batman. Damian’s favoritism here is both sweet and a little cruel if you think about the context much.

Now let’s talk about Stephanie’s weapon, and yes she very much is Damian’s older sibling even if she isn’t a Wayne. Damian gave her the Coup-Stick of Black Bison (A DC Super Villain.) What can this staff do??? The mystical power of the coup-stick can animate material objects and in so doing, command these objects to do its bidding. This power cannot affect living biological material, but can affect non-living organic tissue. Black Bison once used the coup-stick to re-animate the stuffed remains of a white stallion (as well as other animals). Black Bison has also used the coup-stick to control the weather, such as summoning a strong wind to deflect attackers. Guys Damian gave Stephanie a weapon that will allow her to call on back-up, and COMMAND her own creations, a weapon that allows her to be a leader!! Something she has wanted for a long time??? Also, it sounds like it has the power to control the weather??? Damian really said #girlboss and how much he loves her without actually saying it. I cannot stress enough how well DC could do her justice in this series if they at least tried.

Now, wow. Damian really straight up gave Jason’s dramatic ass the actual Trident of Poseidon, which is an unbreakable weapon that that serves as an extension of the wielder’s own power. Damian really gave Jason not only a King’s weapon, but a godly weapon. What other powers it has might not be relevant to whatever power it might awaken with Jason as its wielder. Damian really cut out the middle man and just said, “Look, you are stupidly strong. I’m going to give you a stupidly strong weapon. Have at ye!” And you know Jason is going to wield that thing like he’s Poseidon, rightful ruler of the sea. I literally cannot wait to see Jason just absolutely power-housing his way through whatever gets in his way.

Lastly, but not least in the slightest, Damian gave Tim the Cloak of Cagliostro! Which I want to acknowledge right off the bat, 🎶one of these things is not like the others~🎶 And thank Rao for that, because: The Cloak of Cagliostro is a magical item which allows the wearer to teleport, and to become intangible, and invisible. That is the *cutest* Easter Egg ever! Gotham Knights acknowledgement of Tim’s teleporting anyone????? Tim was the only one Damian gave a defensive weapon, and not an offensive weapon to. And that makes sense, because Tim is a defensive fighter! Tim never has to be the strongest person in the room. He just needs to be clever enough to use what he knows to win. Instead of giving him a weapon to swing around, Damian gave him something that Tim could use to protect himself, and actively use to make ALL of his skillsets stronger, not just his fighting power!!! This! Is! NOT! Damian looking down on Tim or considering him weaker. He’s playing to Tim’s strengths! He literally gave his big brother a cloak that straight up is like a cheat-code of meta-powers that would suit Tim SO WELL, because he knows Tim will be able to use those abilities to bullshit levels of effectiveness!!

It genuinely looks like thought went into what weapons each of the Robins were given. I know fanon likes to bash on Damian or bash on his relationship to his siblings, or vice-versa, but in canon it has been clear for some time now that Damian considers all former and current Robins his family. (Including Tim. He refers to Tim as Timothy nowadays, and calls him his brother, that’s not fanon) No matter if Damian is not himself right now, he’s genuinely looking out for all of their best interests, and is ensuring that each one of them is as well-equipped as possible.

Regardless, genuinely curious to see how each of these weapons will be used by their respective Robins, and how this will all end up. Hopefully, it ends with a giant group hug that will break the internet. (Also, ngl, I hope if Tim gets a new superhero identity soon his new suit will play off of Gotham Knight’s Tim’s abilities or be based off this cloak. Just think that would be neat ✨)

#batfam #batman #robin #damian wayne #dick grayson #stephanie brown #jason todd #tim drake #batman vs robin #gotham knights #meta analysis #nightwing #red hood #the spoiler #dc comics #bruce wayne #also I got my info on the weapons from dc wiki #still reeling over how cool this stuff is #comic spoilers

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thecruellestmonth · 3 months

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Does the mass-murdering criminal Jason "Red Hood" Todd canonically support the death penalty?

No, I can't find evidence that Red Hood supports the death penalty.

There is a difference between murder (illegal) and state-sanctioned killing (legal). Red Hood commits unlawful homicide. The death penalty is lawful homicide. Jason is a murderer. The death penalty is not legally considered murder. Commissioner Jim Gordon is a decorated military veteran, not a murderer.

Committing violence ≠ wanting the government to have the right to commit that violence. Batman and his allies brutalize criminals; they don't necessarily support the state brutalizing criminals. Red Hood kills some criminals; Red Hood doesn't necessarily support the state killing criminals. Catwoman doesn't necessarily support the state committing burglary. Et cetera.

The death penalty is administered by the criminal legal system. Jason does not like the criminal legal system (see some of his run-ins with the police). He grew up as an impoverished child who didn't believe in the system, he was raised by Batman to believe that vigilantes can make a difference that the system can't, and he became an adult criminal who still doesn't believe in the system. He's not interested in using the criminal legal system. He isn't interested in giving more powers and privileges to an abusive system that has wronged him and the people he cares about.

When Jason started up his villain business, the death penalty was legal in Gotham City. (See Detective Comics #644, The Joker: Devil's Advocate, Batgirl 2000 #19, Punchline #1.) The death penalty was also in place during his Robin run. Jason didn't argue in favor of the state having the right to kill prisoners, and the death penalty never addressed his complaints about the status quo.

Jason has rescued people from wrongful* imprisonment and the death penalty. Again, based on his own firsthand experiences, he has many reasons to believe that the system is broken. *Some of us would argue that locking any people in prisons tends to be wrongful and inhumane by default, but we could choose to accept the standard premises of crime fiction as without endorsing it as moral instruction.

Jason Todd is a criminal: a mass murderer, a terrorist, a villain. He does evil. He doesn't represent or support the legal system. He probably has the least political capital out of all the Batfamily-associated characters. He doesn't promote the death penalty. He commits murder—illegally, as a criminal, state-unapproved.

Some recent comics related to the topic:

Gotham Nights (2020) #11 "One Minute After Midnight", written by Marc Guggenheim

Red Hood and Nightwing team up to investigate the case of a man wrongly convicted of murder and sentenced to be executed. Both of them disapprove of how the broken criminal legal system botched this case.

Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing #8 (2023), written by Matthew Rosenberg

"You familiar with Hannah Arendt's concept of Schreibtischtäter? Desk murderers? It's people who use the state to kill for them, so they don't have to get their hands dirty."

#Jason Todd #Jason Todd meta #Batfam meta #Batfamily meta #Batfam #Batfamily #Robin II #Batkids #Batman Gotham Nights #DC Robin #Red Hood #Joker The Man Who Stopped Laughing #Matt Rosenberg #canon vs fanon #fanon vs canon #panels #RHATO 2011 opens with Red Hood saving somebody from being unjustly executed. Don't read it. It is bad. Just trust me.#Jason Todd is legally dead and not registered to vote.#I could make a much longer post about Jason's general contempt for authorities but let's limit it today.#thecruellestmonth #I know the 1992-2010 comics purists are going to come after me for using recent comics.#I could make a much longer post about Post-Crisis Jason Todd's attitudes about the police and the state.#But that longer post still wouldn't have much to say about the death penalty--#--because--AGAIN--there is NO evidence that Jason supports the death penalty! But there is plenty of indirect evidence that he doesn't.#Do the words ''system''‚ ''state''‚ ''criminal''‚ and ''legal'' look like real words anymore?#ID in alt text #described #image described #ID in alt #image description

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gecemi09 · 6 months

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Do you ever think about how horrible of a title "Batman's Greatest Failure" is? How degrading and dehumanising? Everything you achieved in life is forgotten and reduced to the way it ended.

You aren't a person. You are a failure. Your whole life is pushed aside and made a part of someone else's life story. You never mattered, if it weren't for that person you would have meant nothing at all.

Aren't you glad? Aren't you glad you are remembered as something? Even if that something is just saying your whole existence equals just to a mistake in someone's life? An old page that everyone is so desperate to forget. A lapse in judgement. A regret. The people you saved, the people you loved, what you did in life, none of that matters. All that matters is how another person was affected by your death. That is all you will ever be. Everything you did and didn't do will always be irrevocably tied to that person, for better or worse.

You are unable to exist without that person and the only way for you to exist is through his perception of you. The only way for others to see you is to look at you through his biased interpretations of who you were.

You weren't a child or a hero or a martyr or a son or a victim. All you ever were, and will be, is someone's "Greatest Failure".

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brutaliakent · 2 years

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Red Hood Outlaws Webtoon Episode 10 Like Father : Rant

This makes me so inexiplicably angry

NEED WRITERS TO STOP POTRAY JASON AS VIOLENT AND ANGRY AND NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE CORE OF JASON'S CHARACTER

THAT WAS NO WHAT ROBIN JASON IS LIKE and fanon has done so much irreparable damage to him !!

Jason was a great kid, his and bruce's relationship was like father and son !! Jason was kind and sweet and fucking sunshine incarnate

He was reckless towards the end of his run because he saw a rapist who clearly guilty, walk free because of diplomatic immunity, he was angry at how justice system failed so many people and guess what it was fucking justified !

This was how it ended when he attacked Two Face because he found out Two Face was responsible for Willis Todd's death in his original run !! Jason had Two Face arrested and he and Bruce had little bonding not whatever the hell happened in webtoon

Need ppl to stop potraying him as some sort of angry child who Bruce tolerated, who was not merciful and full of hate like PLEASE

anyways here's some of my favourite Robin Jason and Jason & Bruce interactions

he's my little boy and he deserves so much better ☹️💞

Need DC to hire writers who atleast get Jason as a character and dont make him one dimensional

#jason todd #rhato #red hood outlaws #bruce wayne #batman #robin jason todd #robin #comics meta #comic #dc comics #red hood #batfamily #two face #harvey dent #jason todd meta #***#brutaliakent

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armed-with-a-waffle-iron · 8 months

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Stephanie Brown ACTUALLY having the character arc that fanon pretends Jason Todd had (plus a defence of canon Jason)

What I'm really saying is that Stephanie Brown is underappreciated, Jason Todd is often misinterpreted, and, though it should go without saying, ignoring canon is poor media literacy. So let's actually analyse canon and get to the bottom of what the stories are trying to say and how they use their characters to tell this, as opposed to just which character should we stan.

I'm arguing that Stephanie Brown's story actually features a redemption arc that sees her transform from a violent, almost murderous teenager into the most unwaveringly hopeful of heroes and that Jason's story is about a villain who we're meant to empathise with to expose the cracks in the Batman's heroic facade; a Frankenstein's monster if you will. Here's a numbered list:

Part 1: Outgrowing Violence, Anger and Murder

A big part of Stephanie Brown's growth in canon is her learning not to kill or use excessive force. But it's not as simple as just killing is wrong, don't question it.

Let's begin with the narrative's relationship to violence, anger and murder. Why doesn't Batman kill? Because "[those] who [fight] with monsters might take care lest [they] thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you". If he kills, he's playing god, choosing who gets to live and die. No one deserves that kind of absolute power and absolute power also corrupts. Batman doesn't want to lose sight of himself or his cause. Deliberate murder is treated VERY negatively in the Batman mythos.

Enter Stephanie Brown.

Stephanie was a working class latchkey kid who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. She had an abusive, criminal father, who was in and out of jail, and a mother struggling with addiction, who Steph became a carer for at just 15. Steph also became pregnant with the child of her horrible ex. At 16, she gave birth to that child and had to give her up for adoption. Steph is also a survivor.

The world was never kind to Steph and left this teenager with a hell of a lot of bitterness and rage which her vigilante career became an outlet for. You can tell by the way she fights since Steph fights DIRTY; she'll tug hair and spit in your eyes and strike below the belt and catch a kick to twist your ankle and dislodge your already broken nose. On the one hand; the narrative tells us Steph is resourceful. She's 5'5", 130 lb and has zero powers, but can always find an opening even when going up against Gotham's grizzliest. It's telling that quick thinking, savviness and spontaneity become her thing when she becomes Batgirl; Steph is the wild card. On the other hand, she was a real diamond in the rough and a complete loose canon. In her first arc, it's Batman who stops her from making the biggest mistake of her life; killing her dad. To deliberately kill; to play god, is to lose yourself, remember. Her first arc is about not being defined by who your parents are and about not giving up on yourself. Batman basically tells her, there's hope for you yet Stephanie Brown, by getting her to spare her dad. And she does. And so began her superhero career.

Nonetheless, it's never that simple. Steph is still a bitter, angry teenager, no matter how many jokes she cracks. It becomes a personal crusade when she, now Robin, discovers that The Penguin is using children as runners. It takes Cassandra Cain to stop her from inflicting anything she may regret.

The narrative wants to show us how cruel the world can be and that it isn't black and white, either. The story ends with an angry Stephanie lamenting "why". It's a "why" she is asking herself too. Why does she do what she does? And it informs us that she, and maybe us the reader too, still have a lot to learn. Murder's not the answer but what is?

Stephanie later saves Bruce by almost murdering serial killer Victor Zsasz. Bruce reprimands her and she cries, quite honestly, "I don't get it, I really don't", following on from where we left off in Batgirl. "There are always other options than to kill" asserts Bruce, forget not being on the same page, they're reading different books. The thesis of the story is what Bruce should have told Steph when she was an angry 15 year old about to murder her dad; "[those] who [fight] with monsters might take care lest [they] thereby become a monster". The world's cruel, Steph, but that doesn't mean you have to be too. "Are you firing me?" "No, I'm teaching you".

Over 2 years down the line, an around 19 year old Stephanie, establishing herself as the new, hoping-inspiring Batgirl, is now teaching a brash Damian Wayne what she's learned.

"To murder or not to murder" is just a plot device to the themes of overcoming your own anger at the world's cruelty to contribute good, coming to terms with shades of grey, not giving up on yourself and staying hopeful in the face of adversity and horror. These are Stephanie's arcs and as a consequence, she goes from would-be-murderer to Gotham's cheeriest caped crusader.

Part 2: Double Standards and Second Chances

Another huge part of Stephanie's story is her overcoming double standards and doubters, to earn her own second chances. Her resurrection and rise to the role of Batgirl were choices made to hammer home this theme; it's never too late to turn things around.

There's some juicy metatext to analyse here too. DC editorial's treatment of Stephanie during War Games was horrific and panned by both fans and writers. To reperate for these harms, Steph was retconned back to life and then made Batgirl during Batman: Reborn. Here's a quote by Batgirl (2009) author Bryan Q. Miller on what his run aimed to bring out of Steph:

The whole point of Stephanie's resurrection and take over of the Batgirl title was to give her a redemption arc.

In text, Stephanie was unfairly treated too, notwithstanding that she was brash and had a massive violent streak in her Spoiler and Robin days. Tim Drake constantly condescends her and tells her to give up vigilante life, even though she was ALWAYS a match for Tim according to Convergence: Batgirl. Cassandra Cain constantly underestimates Steph. Bruce Wayne tells his allies to cut off ties with Steph and then later fires her as Robin for DISOBEYING HIM as if that's not the first thing Dick Grayson ever did as Robin. Barbara Gordon tells Steph she has a death wish. Dick deems Steph too reckless (moments before he resurrects a zombie Batman). And Damian is an entitled brat who gives her a hard time for no reason. Everyone doubts Stephanie and it generally says more about the doubter than it does Stephanie.

Stephanie was never great with authority or criticism so she still went out there and earned her second chance. And it felt rewarding when her doubters came around too.

Stephanie was brought back from the dead to be redeemed and man did she take that chance!

Part 3: What is Jason Todd's Story Meant to Tell Us and My Defence of Canon Jason

Jason Todd returns from the dead as a ghost of Batman's past; he is the living embodiment of Batman's greatest mistake who couldn't stay buried and is back to haunt him. He's a character we are meant to empathise with but he's a villain nonetheless. He's not irredeemable but for the most part his story is not really about redemption. Succinctly, it revolves around the idea that "we are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” to quote Oscar Wilde.

When we first meet the resurrected Jason, he's a cold-blooded murderer who's slinging guns and using The Joker's old moniker. These choices are made to emphasise that he went down the wrong path; he's breaking Batman's "don't play god" rule and his actions become eerily closer to those of the Clown Prince of Crime than Batman's. In fact Nightwing and Batman spend some quality time together in the next two issues because Nightwing is the foil to the Red Hood; he's what Bruce considers his greatest success. Remember that thing about "those who [fight] with monsters might take care lest [they] thereby become a monster"? Well Jason DID become a monster. And if he's the monster, then Bruce Wayne is Frankenstein.

We're not supposed to think "yes, kill the The Joker, Jason", we're supposed to think "good god, please Jason, it's not too late to turn your life around". Here's Dick and Jason being the exact opposite of each other, an issue apart.

So what was Jason's villainous return trying to say? For one, that people are the products of their circumstance, lest we forget Jason was once an eager and studious Robin who just wanted to be part of something greater when life, but specifically Bruce, sent him awry. This is also a story about Bruce which tells us says that our mistakes have consequences that don't stay buried, and that we will always be forced to reckon with our histories or it becomes everyone's problem. This next panel shows this best. All of Jason's killing and torture and fear-spreading and chaos does not come down to some "murder or not to murder" debate, it comes down to his relationship with Bruce. He is the monster that Frankenstein created who's back to haunt him and no one is safe.

Jason's initial Red Hood arcs were never supposed to pose the question "should Batman kill The Joker or not?". The answer is no and always has been. They are supposed to show us how Bruce's poor fatherhood of and partnership with Jason Todd led to all this horror. And Bruce can't turn back the clock, he has to reckon with the consequences of his actions in the present or more people will get hurt. It's significant that these first arcs don't end with Jason returning to the manor and seeking help surrounded by family.

We then see Jason and his issues with Bruce threaten the lives of others like when he beat Tim half to death twice, tried to blow up Mia Dearden and then tried to become a murderous, gun-touting Batman after Bruce's "death".

Once Dick Grayson becomes Batman, the narrative sheds a bit more light on how Bruce's Frankenstein created a monster in Jason; Bruce wanted Jason to be another Dick Grayson.

The red hair is a perfect metaphor. Jason is naturally red-haired and he is now balding because Bruce made him dye his hair black so he'd look like Dick as Robin. That sums it up for me. Bruce really created his own demon here and Dick, as the new Batman, is trying to make amends with the sins of the Batman's past. Jason's a great choice for a Dick Grayson villain because of their histories, considering Dick Grayson is the legacy Batman.

"I tried really hard to be what batman wanted me to be...which is you." Jason tells Dick.

That line is so painful and way more recognisable and relatable than anything fanon has produced.

"But this world...this dirty, twisted, cruel and ugly dungheap had...other plans for me."

Look no further, this is who Jason Todd is.

That's a powerful story if you ask me, and this is why I like Jason Todd as a character; a villain I pity deeply, who is portrayed as a product of their circumstances without diminishing their agency and who makes me see the cracks in the hero's facade because they are the monster our "hero" created. He's also a very nuanced foil to the ever-shining light that is Dick Grayson. The appeal to Mary Shelley's Frankenstein isn't that the monster murdered people. I also would never swap canon Jason out for, I dunno, Wayne Family Adventures Jason who's the amalgamation of 3 or 4 common fanon tropes. This is my two cents.

#stephanie brown that ball of anger and vengeance that we saw grow into one of the most well-rounded capable and cheerful bats around #stephanie brown #vengeance is purple #fanon vs canon #jason tood #robin #batgirl #the spoiler #red hood #batman and robin #dc comics #comics #metas #batman #batfam #wayne family adventures #bruce wayne #dick grayson

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crim-bat · 1 year

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Hot take but Bruce shouldn't be able to beat his students as easily nearly as often as comics make him out to be able to do. Bruce had more training and he trained for longer but Bruce distilled that training into them in presumably the most characteristically efficient Batman style that he possibly could have been.

Dick has been at this only maybe two or three years less than Batman and Jason went out to get as much training as Bruce did and was able to out fox Bruce for about a month before he caught on. Cassandra is basically an instant win condition so we're not counting her. She's basically the throwing of exodia in this situation.

That's not to say he still shouldn't win in some scenarios. He obviously shouldn't want to fight his kids outside of training and he is still physically stronger than all them except maybe Jason and he still does have more experience.

This is all just to say that, especially with Dick and Jason and maybe tim, although DC has kind of started to make Tim a less capable fighter in the last decade, Bruce should not be able to beat them as handedly as he often does.

#batman meta #Jason todd #red hood #robin #dick grayson #nightwing #red robin #tim drake #Cassandra cain #batgirl #bruce wayne #batman #bat family #dc comics #detective comics #gotham

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wightning · 2 years

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How many backup plans do the Bats come up with that never need executing that they just quietly sweep under the rug.

In Red Robin there's a part where Tim and Cass use a plan that required a) Tim to have a pack of his own blood attached to his back harness b) a collapsible katana blade coming out of the front of his chest, and c) Cass also owning a collapsible katana. All to fake Tim being impaled. This plan had a 4.67% chance of being required, and "even less of a chance of working".

The bag Tim was carrying around contained a pint of blood, mixed with glycerin water. Just strapped to his back. How long did he intend to carry it around for? Was this bag of blood rotting a concern? Did he do anything to treat the blood so it wouldn't rot? How long did it take to modify his Red Robin suit to include a collapsible katana blade in the front?

I repeat, this plan had a 4.67% percent of needing to be executed.

For every plan they go through with there's got to be at least like 5-10 that never need to be used. How much random stuff do they just have on hand or one phone call or button press away.

Tim has to empty his belts for some reason one day and there's a pack of fireworks and matches for an escape plan that has a 2.09% of being needed, a clown wig and makeup because he might need to impersonate a clown later that week, a vacuum sealed hamburger whose purpose he refuses to disclose, and other odds and ends.

I would make a joke about being able to pick up a Bat, shake them upside-down by the ankles and have a comical, seemingly random assortment of objects rain down, but they've probably already prepared for that scenario too.

#They're all fucking Doraemon #cy posts #batman #dc comics #batfam #jason todd #red hood #bruce wayne #tim drake #red robin #dick grayson #nightwing #dc meta #batman meta #batfam meta

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goodoldfashionedengineer · 9 days

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Tim: So, and for what reason was I 17 years old for the last 15 years?

Damian: That's what you're complaining about? They couldn't even bother to give me a proper characterization until much later on. And then it is one that does not align with my upbringing!

Stephanie: At least you weren't killed just because of misogyny

Dick: Yeah, I wonder how anyone let that through. But then again, I shouldn't expect anything else from writers who made me stuck as Ric for two years and all the, you know, Tarantula stuff

Jason: It's honestly like they just spin a wheel every day to figure out if I'm a villain, hero or anti-hero

Duke: Forget about the writers, the fans also have some... wild assumptions

Stephanie: Yeah, like that you're the normal one!

Cass: Or that I'm mute. Just there to give emotional support

Barbara: Or that the most traumatic thing to ever happen to me is framed as something good just because I became Oracle. I barely had one page of dialogue in that entire story!

Tim: At least they get one thing right.

Dick: And that is?

Tim: Bruce.

Jason: Yeah, what is up with that?! It feels like I've become his punching bag! Why is he considered a hero again when he is just plain abusive at this point?

Duke: Patriarchy

Barbara: And male power fantasy

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theerurishipper · 6 days

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I feel like people really underestimate the importance of Dick being the first Robin. Like, reverse Robin AUs are interesting and such, but I just hope people realize that in the context of canon, they would never work. The reason Batman and Robin ever works is because the first Robin was Dick Grayson specifically. Because Bruce would never have taken in any child if Dick's tragedy hadn't specifically happened to mirror his own experience. Dick Grayson was the only one Bruce truly saw himself in first, because the fundamental event that defines them is the same. And he sees the opportunity to help someone the way he was never helped, to make sure that Dick didn't go down the dark path he did. So, my point here is that the only one Bruce actually made the choice to take in, the only one who could kickstart it all, is Dick Grayson, because he is the only one with whom Bruce could immediately empathize and connect with.

This never happened with any other Robin. He took in Jason because he missed Dick, he took in Tim because Tim forced himself into the role, he took in Steph because he was trying to make Tim come back to being Robin, and Dick made Damian Robin. Of course, he loved all of them, and they all have their unique relationships with Bruce that are very important and inform their characters, and he does need them too. But he specifically formed this connection with Dick that made Dick the only person he ever considered taking in. It took a very specific set of circumstances in Dick's backstory that made Bruce commit an impulse adoption that just isn't really present in any other Robin's story. And the reason Jason or Tim or Steph or Damian or anyone else whom Bruce has taken under his wing even got that chance is because of the work Dick Grayson put into Bruce Wayne.

Before Dick, Bruce was reckless and didn't care at all about himself, to the point of almost being borderline suicidal. He was more brutal, more violent, etc. The reason all this changed, is because of Dick Grayson specifically. He was the one with whom Bruce opened up, with whom Bruce was forced to grow up, to take responsibility and learn to take care of both Dick and himself. Dick, to Bruce was the one who brought "color to their [his and Alfred's] monochrome lives." Dick Grayson's specific brand of happiness and joy changed Bruce for the better. Dick gave Bruce hope. This is true for other Robins too, but only because they followed the precedent that Dick Grayson set, only because they slid into his role (they have their own interesting relationships with Bruce, but this specifically is from Dick that other Robins carried on. A legacy, if you will). Dick Grayson turned Bruce into the kind of man who would become a serial adopter.

Without his influence, without his precedent, there would be no Batfamily, because Bruce would never have gotten to the point where he would be able or willing to take in someone else and care for them properly (It took living through his trauma again to get him to take Dick in lmao). Hell, there would be no Batman because Bruce would have gotten himself killed a long time ago if Dick hadn't helped him learn self-care. Dick knows Bruce best, because he understands him on a fundamentally deeper level than anyone else in the world. And he's the only one who can make Bruce open up at his rawest, most downtrodden state. He is the only one who can give Bruce at his lowest that kind of hope. There is no Robin without Dick Grayson. It's literally a tribute to his parents, using their colors and the name his mother called him. He created that identity as a symbol of hope. He helped Bruce become the kind of man who could and would let other people that he had to care for into his life. Without Dick Grayson, you can simply forget about any other Robin or the Batfamily as a concept even existing.

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arrowheadedbitch · 5 months

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Tim: In the grand scheme of things, we are all nothing, just specks of dust floating on a ball in the infinitely vast dimensional spaces that we all require to survive

Jason: I just want you to stop saying odd shit

#tim drake #red robin #robin #rr #chaotic tim drake #batfam #unhinged tim drake #meta!tim #my au #jason todd #red hood

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spite-and-waffles · 2 years

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Controversial opinion #678:

The mantle of Batman should not be passed on but instead die with Bruce Wayne.

I mean, who should it go to? Nightwing is who Dick Grayson is, and a completely different brand from Batman. He has the kind of trust and respect as a leader within the superhero community that Batman just doesn't. He should lead the JLA one day as Nightwing. It's insulting to him to think that the Batman mantle is a promotion. Few other people can carry the name of Batman but no one else is worthy of Nightwing.

Jason? The day he wears the Bat's cowl is the day he loses everything that makes him Jason Todd, whether or not he gives up killing. He's supposed to be a renegade of the mission, a counterbalance in values and methods to the Bat, not become him.

Tim? It would consume him completely. Dick is at his best when he's surrounded by a diverse team of people, but Tim straight up needs it. Preferably outgoing, expressive, extroverted and sunny ones that are as unlike him as possible. Being Batman would make him lose himself inside his own head. The last thing this kid needs is more incentive to be manipulative and self-sacrificing.

Cass is honestly the best contender, not least because the cowl wouldn't weigh her down but emancipate and uplift her. The only reason I don't think she should be Batman is because I personally feel she supercedes Bruce in everything his emblem stands for. She should be The Bat - all the essence of guardianship and protection and terror of the night and none of the (let's face it - manpaining) martyrdom. As for the cerebral and leadership aspects of the Batman mantle, I think Cass would be a good leader when the situation calls for it, but I don't know whether she'd thrive in the role. She's a deeply intuitive and empathetic person; the emotional distance and hard choices for the greater good she'd have to make would eat at her more than it would the others. Doing anything "for the greater good" feels anathema to Cass's nature. Her profound and unfettered compassion is her strongest virtue.

Stephanie–what. No. Lmao. She's Hope at the bottom of Pandora's Box. Never that.

Becoming Batman would be the worst for Damian, because the true actualisation of his character is in freeing himself of his parental mold. He only wants to be Batman to prove himself good enough, to be accepted and chosen and trusted, his existence validated. But that's just chasing a mirage, because those insecurities exist chiefly within himself. If he was Batman they would just be exacerbated, condemned to operate forever in his father's shadow, always trying to live up to the legacy of his blood and a mission he never chose for himself.

I don't follow the reboot comics at all so I don't know much about Duke, but it seems the whole point of him is that he's the one who is expressly not supposed to be Batman. The only one of Gotham's heroes that lives in the light of day, never condemned to the shadows.

More than anything, though, the point of Batman's mission is for his role to become obsolete. If the world still needs a Batman by the time Bruce is forced to hang up his cape, then it means that he's failed.

#batman #batfamily #bat meta #bruce wayne #dick grayson #nightwing #jason todd #red hood #tim drake #red robin #cassandra cain #black bat #batgirl #stephanie brown #spoiler #damian wayne #robin #character study #spite waffle

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damianbugs · 7 months

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Honestly I would love a Jason Todd comic that focused on confronting his world view, like yes it's easy to put a bullet through the head of every criminal but, the world isn't so black and white, sometimes criminals either have no choice/it goes deeper than that. Similar to how utrh questions Bruce's morality (nothing really came of it) I want a comic where Jason's world view is also questioned.

He really has a lot of potential but idk DC keeps fumbling. I'd like to know your thoughts on how you would handle a Jason storyline, I love your metas.

oh how i mourn the disappointing horror of everything under the red hood could have been... for both bruce and jason!

if i were to handle a jason comic, i would disregard everything ever written after under the red hood and related stories. as much as i enjoy jason joining the batfam and rebuilding bridges in fanon works, i much prefer jason becoming a permanent member of the gotham rouge gallery and staying batman's kind-of-enemy in canon.

what i think utrh was setting up was Jason Todd, Ultimate Foe of Bruce Wayne. jason is a incredibly smart and cunning character, who planned to the smallest detail in order to get his desired outcome. nothing he did was by accident. but more importantly, his unwavering and concrete code can only be rivalled by batman, and so, they will constantly be at odds. if utrh taught us anything, it is that jason and bruce are always going to be plagued by what they lost in each other, and as a result, will never find their way back to what they once were.

they will now forever exist as consequences of each other, no matter what.

by doing this to his story, jason finally has the chance to grow as his own character, independent from the batfam;

one of the biggest problems with how dc is handling jason is that they want him to be this angry, violent and unsociable person while also trying to convince everyone that he is not angry and not violent and very sociable with the batfam. this causes the disparity in his writing, either with inconsistencies or just downright character assassination.

if he was kept as gotham's anti-hero, then this gives him the freedom to find his own code that is no longer dependent on batman's overarching one. utrh jason kills indiscriminately because it's what solves the problem that batman's never been able to fix: crime. jason, who is young, and betrayed, and for all that he is intelligent, he is naive and claims he's the long term solution to batman's short term one. unfortunately, killing criminals to stop criminals from existing works until, like you said, comes a situation where the world isn't so black and white.

jason knows this, probably better than anyone. he comes from poverty and homelessness, lost his parents to drugs and sickness and violence. many of his stories as robin highlight how, unlike batman, jason is able to see people for who they are and not just their actions, offering a empathetic insight that batman, for all he is kind, can never truly grasp.

as red hood, i think a combination of the lazarus pit, his training, and his murderer, batman's seemingly disregard for him, how the world moves on while jason is stuck, has made him forget this kindness he had in him. that he still has. so we need a story where it is pulled out of him and he is forced to battle what he's always known.

i think this question of jason's morality was what zdarsky was TRYING to do with Cheer (Batman Urban Legends #1-#6), but it fell flat due to the terrible portrayal of Robin Jason. The story itself of jason killing someone and bruce reacting to it left a lot to be desired (as always). not to mention how out of all the criminals jason could've been shown to kill, having it be a dealer who is also an addict is rather... tone deaf on jason's own moral code. the killing was also not calculated or "for the greater good" and was instead a rage-filled thoughtless killing which, again, is a gross misunderstanding of jason's moral code and intelligence.

so we almost had it, a story where jason has to fight someone more stubborn than batman — himself. as a character in batman's rouge gallery, this horrifying realisation of who he shares that title with, the determination to be better not because of batman, but because jason himself has realised he can do more by doing less of what he's been doing.

i don't know if i would rule out jason killing people entirely, since it is such an integral deconstruction of who he was as robin and who he is now as red hood, but i would like to think he changes how he holds his weapons. less of "i kill because it's the only way to fix this" and more "i kill because sometimes it's the best thing i can do to fix this". a very subtle but still problematic change that isolates him from ever joining the batfam.

it might seem sort of cruel, that my ideal jason story makes him lonely and more of a villian, but i think that is the sort of tragic path his character is forced to adopt. he made this bed when he returned to gotham with retribution in his plans and hurt in his heart, and now he must lie in.

there is always the potential for him to be happy, to have his family and friends and be the sort of hero he was as a teenager — but to get there, it needs to get worse before it can get better. that's what dc failed with jason, skipping the internal turmoil and drama and harsh reality checks and skipping straight to the part where he has a family again.

plus, batman's rouge gallery teach lessons to batman. poison ivy, harley, two face, strange, riddler and (annoyingly) even the joker play crucial roles to who batman is as a hero and constantly force him to challenge his code.

jason teaches the biggest lesson of all — that batman is bruce wayne. he had the potential to be the driving force that changed bruce's character forever, because red hood is a reflection that batman created all on his own, not by being batman, but by being bruce wayne. and this fact would have given jason the chance to be more than just that.

#sorry for rambling #and for bringing it back to bruce and jason #unfortunately i am insane about them #one day we will get a writer who truly values jason #and all that he was as robin and all he can be as red hood #one day...#jason todd #bruce wayne #saki comic talks #saki anons #dc meta

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