#toa theory

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

ToA Theory 1 - Apollo's Waking Visions

First official theory post, here we go! :D

Alright. So. After rereading The Dark Prophecy, I started wondering about something. In TDP, Apollo experiences waking visions, where he conks out for a bit and has prophetic visions.

I found this interesting because, well...isn't Apollo supposed to be cut off from prophecy? With Python back in control of Delphi?

Because think about it. Python controls Delphi, the root of all earthly prophecy. This would include Dodona, Trophonius, Herophile, and Sibyl - sure, they aren't strictly connected to Delphi, but it's pretty heavily stated that Delphi just straight-up Makes The Future. It's prophecies are The Big Deal and you Should Listen.

Meanwhile the other Oracles seem more guiding and "beware!" instead of "this is how it's gonna be".

(sidenote: found out there are MORE oracles and I wanna know WHERE THEY ARE IN RRVERSE CANON because I want my boy Branchus okay??? Okay. Branchus's oracle was second only to Delphi let's give Apollo's first boyfriend the attention he deserves!)

So of course, like all great members of this fandom, I started thinking.

Let's do a little family history first. ;)

Buckle up. We go down a deep rabbit hole 😎

Apollo and Artemis are twins, born to Leto and Zeus. Zeus's parents are Kronos and Rhea. Leto's are Koios and Phoebe.

Rhea has connections to Dodona, as we learn in-series, but she doesn't really seem to be all that involved with prophecy.

Her siblings, meanwhile...ho ho ho, they are a WHOLE NOTHER STORY!

Let's start with Phoebe. Phoebe, like all first generation Titans, is the daughter of Gaea and Ouranos. She married her brother Koios. Her children consist of Asteria, Lelantos, and Leto. As well as Artemis and Apollo, her other two grandchildren are Hecate (Asteria) and Aura (Lelantos).

Her name means "bright" and is the root of Apollo's most famous epithet - Phoebus. She is often described as "golden-crowned" and is the Titan of bright intellect, the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, and is the second guardian of Delphi, after her sister Themis. She gifted Delphi to Apollo for his birthday after he defeated Python.

Classic grandmother move.

Anyway. There's a bit of Phoebe lore. Time for her elusive husband :3

Koios. His names means "question" or "questioning", probably because he's the Titan of inquiring intellect. He's also the overseer of Heavenly Prophecies, and has an oracle up in the North Pole guarded by an earth-dragon - you'd know this serpent by the name of Draco, the constellation btw. Additionally, Hyperborea (where Apollo goes in the winter times) is part of his domain.

eyes

Unfortunately, we have very little mythological lore on these two, and even less in the RRverse (I cling to that one (1) Koios scene) which sucks because I love them already BUT it does give me lots of legroom to mess around with canon >:)

Back to the theory now. As you may have guessed, I'll be taking us in a direction concerning Apollo's mysterious grandparents. But what does this have to do with Apollo's visions?

Well. Remember when I mentioned that Delphi is the root of all earthly prophecies?

...look at Phoebe's paragraphs. She's the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, right? So it makes sense she's been affected by Python's takeover too.

(if you've read my fics you'd know this already lmao)

Asteria, Apollo's aunt, is a little trickier. She, too, has a hand in divination, but mainly through the night/stars and dreams. <-will come back to that later.

Koios, again, is overseer of Heavenly Prophecies, and is heavily implied to be able to commune with Ouranos's spirit. This is, apparently, a Big Deal because nobody else is mentioned to be able to do this.

...Except...remember this throwaway line in The Hidden Oracle?

^Apollo can see Ouranos too.

Within this theory is a sub-theory, so to speak - that immortals with the gift of prophecy can see Ouranos, since they can see what cannot be seen. This would include Phoebe, Asteria, Koios, and Apollo.

And it'll make sense why they'd keep it to themselves. Kronos wouldn't have been happy to hear his dad was still around. Neither would Zeus, for that matter.

So here I was. Contemplating. Wrote a few fics based around this idea. And one in particular got me thinking (fic in question being When The Stars Align), and a little ways down the road I realized something.

If Phoebe, the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, would have been affected by Python's takeover...was Koios? Could he even be affected?

Because here's the deal: Koios is the overseer of Heavenly Prophecies. Prophecies from the Sky.

Phoebe's are of the Earth - the Earth that Python has taken control of. And Delphi is the root of Earthly Prophecies - not Heavenly.

That would be Koios's oracle, up in the North Pole with Draco.

...So that means Heavenly Prophecy must have still been in business during ToA.

But then comes the question: If it was still within the gods' control, why didn't they use it?

Well...Draco's there, for one. He's probably the Python-equivalent of the North, and clearly he's still there since no myth has spoken of his death (that I know of).

If you ask me, I just think the gods are too nervous/afraid to try Koios's oracle. They were too scared to face Python, after all, until Apollo arrived. I think they'd be scared of a serpent who comes and goes from the stars as he pleases.

And as for why Apollo hasn't done anything about it...well, I think his fight with Python left him rather scarred, don't you think? He probably went "yeah grandma's oracle is enough" and the only time he ever got close to Koios's was during his time in Hyperborea.

So getting back to the main theory now. (So many rabbit holes to dive into with this post. The ADHD Urge is real)

Since Heavenly Prophecies is still active, but Earthly is in Python's control, I conclude Apollo's visions come from the Heavenly source.

Could they have come from the now-working Dodona? Maybe. But Dodona's all about those windchimes and trees. It doesn't have the Vibe, so to speak, for granting visions.

And remember. Trophonius, Herophile, and Sibyl aren't destroyed/freed yet. They have Zero connection to Apollo at this point because Python cut him off from them.

...but he didn't from the North. From Koios's divine power.

Because remember. Apollo is the god of prophecy.

Not of Earthly Prophecies, like Phoebe.

Not of Heavenly Prophecies, like Koios.

Not of nighttime divination and dreams like Asteria.

Of. Prophecy.

Prophecy as a whole. The entirety. The whole enchilada.

Every part of prophecy he's the god of, be it tarot cards to the Oracle of Delphi itself.

In my opinion, I think whatever Koios's Oracle is, it has just as must power as Delphi. The only problem was that...everybody just left it be. Nobody considered it because:

1) scary dragon

2) scary titan ruled the place

3) honestly at this point I think it's just straight-up forgotten about. Like Branchus's Oracle. I think at one point Apollo himself mentions there are other Oracles besides the ones in-series, but there's so many that his mortal brain cannot comprehend how many.

If the Grove of Dodona nearly faded into obscurity, then I think it's entirely possible Koios's Oracle was forgotten about (or so we think...I'm gonna be chewing on this for a while.)

Coming back round to TDP...I think this is a reasonable explanation about Apollo's visions. To summarize:

Apollo is cut off from Earthly Prophecy, his usual source of foresight that he gets from Phoebe

The unused, near-forgotten-about Heavenly Prophecy side of Apollo ignites to steer him on the right path

This is possible because Apollo is the god of prophecy itself, and not a single subset of prophecy, so he's not limited in the same way Phoebe is

Koios's Oracle is still out there and kicking and I will die on this hill

One problem. What about Asteria? She can interpret the future from the stars...aka the Sky. Like Koios. So couldn't she provide some insight to the future, since she, too, is connected to Heavenly Prophecy?

This is where things get a lil' tricky. And where I really slap on my tinfoil hat and start headcanoning my way through lmao

Basically, I think that since Asteria became the island of Delos (long story) a good chunk of her power is ingrained there. She's not as strong as she used to be, so her foresight isn't as strong.

This, in turn, I think could also serve as a reason why Koios's Oracle is "asleep" so to speak and nearly lost to memory in the RRverse - in fact, I think Asteria and Phoebe are the only ones who bother to remember its existence.

And Leto, of course. But I don't think she wants her son to know of another Oracle with a giant snake guarding it. She's had enough heart-attacks, thank you.

(Same with Lelantos, tbh.)

Canon is my sandbox and I am making some sweet sandcastles out of it XD

TL;DR

Apollo's visions in TDP stem from Koios's source of Heaven Prophecy because Phoebe's source of Earthly Prophecy (Delphi) has been taken over by Python. Koios's source firmly knocks on Apollo's mental doors and decides to kick back into gear to help its titular patron's grandson out. Because Apollo is the god of prophecy itself - every bit of it.

Extras:

I find it fascinating how magic and prophecy are both part of the same family tree (Hecate & Apollo).

and yes. You should expect a fic concerning Koios's Oracle at some point. but no promises on when :3

Thank you for coming to Insane Theory Time With Alder. I hope there will be more lmao

Websites you can look into:

Koios (Theoi)

Phoebe (Theoi)

Hyperborea (Theoi)

#toa theory #ramblings of an oracle #the trials of apollo #trials of apollo #toa #apollo #phoebe the titan #koios #asteria #python #pjo apollo #pjo koios #pjo asteria #pjo python #toa python #toa apollo #pjo hoo toa #percy jackon and the olympians #the heroes of olympus

[ninesparrowsoftroy]

One thing i do think about (in regard to both the book and the show) is how it would make so much sense for Percy to know a startling amount of history. Like obviously we know he’s not the most academically inclined but i like to imagine that when it came to history class he was always freakishly good at it—like if they were at a WW2 museum listening to some audio play over a display documenting the Pacific War how Percy would just know what ships went where, how he would be looking at the uniforms in the glass cases and recognize some of the names even though he has no idea why.

And it’s all because water has memory.

He knows these sailors, these ships, these niche events that the history books scarcely even cover because he’s the son of the sea. He doesn’t have to go out of his way to try and learn the timeline of things or the details of certain historical events because he just knows them subconsciously because the water remembers it all.

#when i remember the theory that water has memory #mix that with percy jackson brain rot #percy jackon and the olympians #percy jackson #percy pjo #pjo #pjo fandom #pjo series #percy jackson show #percy jackson headcanon #percy jackson heroes of olympus #percy jackson headcanons #pjo tv show #pjo hoo toa #pjo disney+

[apollosbisexualass]

In the books, Medusa was a massive turning point for Percy and his relationship with the Olympians. The line ‘Do not let yourself become a pawn to the Olympians’ stays and carries over throughout the other series and is just a major pinnical to how Percy views himself and the gods.

In the show, I think Medusa will be more so a turning point for Annabeth, who, up until this point, blindly worshipped Athena in a plain mirror to Medusa. The line ‘I’m not like you child, I am you’ I think will be the line that sticks with Annabeth across these quests.

Im very interested to see how this carries out.

#episode 3 is my favourite I’ve already watched it twice hehehe #character study #pjo theory #medusa pjo #Annabeth and Medusa #Percy and Medusa #Percy Jackson and the Olympians #greek mythology #greek myth #percy jackson #pjo fandom #pjo series #pjo hoo toa #percy jackson tv spoilers #pjo tv spoilers #percy jackson tv series #pjo tv series #percy jackson episode 3 #Percy Jackson and the lightning thief #percy jackson season one #pjo tlt

[lillosersworld]

I was just reading something and I think I know why Nico is always so drained compared to the other big three children, even his own sister. Percys’ power is linked to water, Jason to air, and Hazel to the earth, you know what they all have in common, they’re abundant elements something that surrounds you, whilst Nicos’ is underwordly things. So it takes a lot of energy to get them since they’re so far away and I meant when he shadow travels himself it’s an easy task but not a lot of things because of how limited shadows are.

#percy jackson #nico di angelo #rick riordan #big three kids #pjo #hoo #toa #hazel levesque #jason grace #thalia grace #theory

[itsdemmibitch]

—-TSATS SPOILERS ———-__

Will really pulled up to The darkest part of the underworld with Cargo Shorts, a sun lamp and the ability to Whistle but didn’t bring any Weapons.

#percy jackson books #pjo nico #pjo series #nico di angelo #percy jackson #pjo fandom #pjo stuff #pjo jason #pjo hazel #pjo hoo toa #the sun and the star #tsats #tsats spoilers #tsats theory #will solace #solangelo #nico x will

[helpallthenamesaretakenblog]

The Judo Flip Scene; The Scene that Divided the Percy Jackson Fandom: What Went Wrong?

Annabeth grabbed his wrist and flipped him over her shoulder. He slammed into the stone pavement. Romans cried out. Some surged forward, but Reyna shouted, “Hold! Stand down!”

Annabeth put her knee on Percy’s chest. She pushed her forearm against his throat. She didn’t care what the Romans thought. A white-hot lump of anger expanded in her chest—a tumor of worry and bitterness that she’d been carrying around since last autumn.

“If you ever leave me again,” she said, her eyes stinging, “I swear to all the gods—”

Percy had the nerve to laugh. Suddenly the lump of heated emotions melted inside Annabeth.

“Consider me warned,” Percy said. “I missed you, too.

-Mark of Athena

This scene is one of the, if not most, controversial scenes in the entirety of Rick Riordan's books. It has caused many fans to go deep into the morality of the scene--into the question of boundaries, whether it is just a good boundaries into Percy and Annabeth's relationships or just abusive behaviour. In this post, I will talk about my opinion on, 'What went wrong?'

First, let us dissect this scene, shall we? We have Annabeth, who has lost her only proof of permanence for six months. The guy she was dreading would die for five years before she thought they had their happy ending was suddenly snatched in a time where she thought life couldn't get any better. During this time;

she saw jason falling in love with piper and was stressed that percy would be doing the same without her

she was stressed percy would never even remember her.

she canonically spent hundreds and thousands of drachmas (and probably time too) on iris messaging every monster and god she could just so that she could find him

she spent a WHOLE lot of energy on this.

she was probably advised by people in camp to find another guy, probably got these comments regularly

she was also troubled by athena's roman form to find athena parthenos statue and ditch finding percy, which must have been hard to handle

she was in charge of helping build a WHOLE WAR SHIP

she was also in charge of rebuilding the home of the gods

And you know what? It makes sense that she would have all of these emotions buried inside her. It makes sense that she would be angry, stressed, and depressed and that she would bury all of this inside. "During their separation, something had happened to Annabeth’s feelings. They’d grown painfully intense—like she’d been forced to withdraw from a life-saving medication. Now she wasn’t sure which was more excruciating—living with that horrible absence, or being with him again" Yep, homegirl was going through some stuff.

Though we don't know what his thoughts were on his point of view, from the fact that he laughs and never brings it up later, we can conclude that Rick wanted us to know that he didn't care, and that these interactions are common between both of them, though one could argue that isn't really reliable.

So; Annabeth having an outburst of emotions is a completely normal reaction, judging the amount of things she has gone through, even though it isn't the right way to express her feelings. But, why is the judo flip scene actually bad? Why did it give even percabeth shippers the ick?

The Way Rick Wrote It: Rick treated the scene as if it was funny, Annabeth was such a girly girlboss who did it to keep Percy in his place. "I only judoflip my boyfriend". And people were mad. Mad that girls are portrayed to be girlbosses by making them violent. Mad that this violence was against a guy who was implied to be abused in his childhood.

My Argument: This scene was written in a time where media with violent comedy was popular among kids (tom and jerry, oggy and the cockroaches, i see you), and that it aged badly. Another important thing: a lot of the fandom also thought of it as percabeth's most romantic moments, and hyped it up so much, which contributes towards the whole ick of the scene.

My Argument: One thing to take into account was that the romans were really on guard when the greeks arrived. they were scared it was going to be an ambush. so when annabeth judoflips percy, their nerves took over. i fully believe the humor of 'i only judoflip my bf' was just their way of diffusing a potentially dangerous situation of misunderstanding.

But in the end I do agree, the way this was written was a major disservice to the feelings that Annabeth was experiencing that time. Rick failed to portray that scene as an exhausted traumatised teenager having an unhealthy outburst of emotions, which is what it really was. Instead, he tried to make it a funny type of scene, and the fandom carried it forward by hyping the scene up as if it was one of percabeth's most romantic moments, and even though the intentions were good, he failed to convey the meaning behind what they said properly.

So now that we've answered the question this post was made for, I'd like to end this post with a positive note. I'd like to point out that in cotg, there is no moment that annabeth physically hurted (hurted is too much of an overstatement) percy if you think about it, which shows that she has improved. If you want proof, I searched any time where Annabeth teased percy physically when he said something 'stupid' and what I found was 'nudged me with her toe' and 'lightly pinched me'. So, even though Rick messed up in writing that one scene more than ten years ago, it's safe to say he has improved.

****************************************************************

#help does pjo essays #percy jackson #pjoedit #pjo #annabeth chase #rick riordan #percabeth #pjo fandom #heroes of olympus #percy jackon and the olympians #pjo tv series #percy x annabeth #pjo tv show #percy series #percy pjo #percy and annabeth #pjotv #cotg #annabeth #sally jackson #percyjackson #pjo series #pjo hoo toa #riordanverse #pjoverse #hoo #pro annabeth chase #percy jackson theory #grover underwood #anti percabeth

[perseabeth]

These lines by Apollo, aka Lester, live in my mind rent free

Listen, i have no theory, i have absolutely no idea what is the connection here

ALSO:

I mean HELLO?? A four-thousand-something years old god saying that. plus i might not be knowledgeable about genetics and how it works but doesn’t percy possess these eyes because of Poseidon ?

this is an extract taken from The Lightening Thief:

I’ve been a reader of Rick Riordan for so long that i know he doesn’t just add things randomly

I don’t know what’s happening here, but I do know that Estelle Blofis, the very lovable energetic child who is very much capable of dominating the planet (Apollo’s words not mine) might have an important role in the story

but again, who knows

#i noticed these when i was rereading the book and i was like???? wait a minute???? #is it random???? #and why apollo got the feelings that he need to hide her from Zeus??? #like why would Zeus be interested in a mortal child? #and him emphasizing TWICE that she is capable of dominating the world??? #if anyone have any theory here please drop it #ive been away from the fanbase for so long so idk if you guys already discussed this #pls enlighten me #plus we all know that sally queen jackson will never cheat on Paul guys #pjo characters #pjo #percy jackson and the olympians #trials of apollo #tower of nero #lester papadopoulos #apollo #estelle blofis #poseidon #percyjacksonandtheolympians #heroes of olympus #hoo #toa #percyjackson #rick riordan

[pjo-hoo-toa-freakazoid]

HOLD UP!!! WAIT WHAT DO YOU MEAN????

“If you've somehow become separated from your demigod buddy while down in the Underworld”

WHAT DOES THAT IMPLY???!?!?! EXCUSE ME

WHAT DO YOU MEAN?????!?!?!?!

#ISTG IF THE BOYS GET SEPARATED FOR A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME #tsats #tsats theory #the sun and the star #a nico di angelo adventure #nico di angelo #will solace #solangelo #solangelo stand alone #mark oshiro #Rick Riordan #pjo #hoo #percy jackson and the olympians #heroes of olympus #toa #percy jackson #pjo fandom #trials of apollo #pjo hoo toa #pjoverse #solangelo standalone #Nico solo book #solangelo solo #solangelo solo book

[your-stranger-halfblood-things]

Percy definitely felt guilty for not picking Luke to go on the quest with him

#what would have happened if luke had gone on the quest with him? #i need theories #percy jackon and the olympians #pjo #percy jackson #luke castellan #annabeth chase #grover underwood #pjo show #pjo hoo toa #pjo hoo toa tsats #pjo series #pjo tv show #pjo fandom

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

so i was thinking

Apollo probably doesn't like Heracles all that much. The guy attacked his Oracle when she told him he had to do his labors and Apollo would have killed him for that if Zeus hadn't intervened.

And I was thinking...well, Commodus likes to proclaim himself the new Hercules. Apollo probably wasn't fond of that, but then I was like "hold up"

so I raise you: Apollo trash-talking Hercules to Commodus and, true to the mna's character, thinks that he's totally better than that washed-up old hero. He'll definitely make a better Hercules than Hercules himself!

(and Commodus does it to make Apollo feel better too lmao)

just. those two trashing Hercules and agreeing that Commodus would make such a better Hercules (and playing into Commodus's god-complex too, ofc. Classic Apollo enabling Commodus's delusions.)

#ramblings of an oracle #toa theory #apollo #commodus #copollo #the trials of apollo #heracles #toa commodus #pjo commodus #emperor commodus #apollo x commodus #apollodus #pjo apollo #riordanverse headcanons

[solangelokitkats]

this parallel…💔

#annabethchase #percy jackson #percabeth #nicodiangelo #will solace #solangelo #tsats preview #tsats spoilers #tsats liveblog #tsats predictions #tsats tour #tsats rant #tsats fanart #tsats theory #tsats #the sun and the star #heroes of olympus #pjo hoo toa #trials of apollo #pjo fandom

[aroaceleovaldez]

return of the mspaint text post memes

#pjo #riordanverse #toa #trials of apollo #lester papadopoulos #piper mclean #nico di angelo #leo valdez #text post meme #my art #that first nico one is a shout-out to my hc/theory that Nico just kept perishing in tartarus #since the doors of death were open at the time

[amiti-art]

TSATS SPOILERS

Nyx: *hates sunlight and changes*

Me: oh wow she would really hate Apollo then

Me:

Me: WAIT A MINUTE

This might sound very delusional but anyone else had a feeling while reading that the whole thing with Nyx seemed a bit like a foreshadowing for a possible rebellion against Zeus?

She rules by fear (like Zeus), she is overly controlling twords her children (like Zeus), she thinks she understends them better than they understend themselves (like Zeus), she thinks she knows better than them (like Zeus),

I think one of the characters even calls her a tyrant (like Apollo called Zeus in the ToN) She doesn't want to change herself (like Zeus)

And in the end her children turned against her in order to save the demigods. It's her own son who burned her mansion.

Apollo's rebellion against Zeus foreshadowing anyone???? (He deserves to burn down his dad's palace too ❤️)

Also in the chapters when they fight Nyx the fact that Will is Apollo's son is pointed out at least 3 times. And this whole thing with her hating the light and changes when Apollo's most important domain is sun/light and he changed so much during last year???

I'm more than delusional at this point

#apollo #tsats spoilers #the sun and the star #zeus #trials of apollo #will solace #nyx #nemezis #pjo hoo toa #lester papadopoulos #my analysis #theory #riordanverse #rick riordan #percy jackson #mark oshiro

[elegantjellyfishwerewolf]

I have a theory which is that Strickler may be from the same tribe as Maddrux the Many-Faced.

Strickler's wings can be explained by the fact that he received them during the mutation, when Morgana made a changeling out of him

#trollhunters #root #tales of arcadia #toa #trollhunters rott #wizards #3below #teoria #trollhunters rise of the titans #art #fanart #theory #trollhunters theory #maddrux #trollhunters muddrux the many

[qwerty-between-the-lines]

My response to the idea that Percy Jackson is an atheist:

I got the sense that Percy WAS an atheist when he first arrived at Camp Half Blood, but by the end of things he's offering ships drenched in Diet Coke to Dionysus.

I think that over 90% of the characters in the Percy Jackson series are clearly neo-pagans who actually worship the gods, or at least worship their divine parent.

That Jason wanted to become a priest of all gods at the end of Heroes of Olympus could be taken as further indication.

Not that I'd want to fight anyone to the death or anything over my theory that the PJO universe is essentially neo-pagan. It is fiction, and there are few wrong conclusions about fictional characters. The reader/viewer is free to see what they want to see.

#pjo hoo toa #text post #theory #rant #random thoughts #atheism #paganism #percy jackson #annabeth chase #nico di angelo #will solace #reyna ramirez arellano #leo valdez #jason grace #piper mclean #thalia grace #lester papadopoulos #meg mccaffrey #apollo #dionysus #demigods #gods #frank zhang #hazel lavesque

[thebeigewitch]

Guys? what if Nico has a flashback to Italy when Nico was a kid and when Bianca and Maria were still alive?

#i will cry #this book is coming in a WEEK #and Mark said none of the theories on twitter came close #i dont know whether to be terrified or not #pjo #percy jackson #pjo hoo toa #solangelo #will solace #nico di angelo #tsats #the sun and the star