#panphobia mention

[whyrubuyingclothesatthesoupstore]

"pansexual is such a terfy term" "bisexuals are trans-exclusive" actually the pansexuals and bisexuals are all making out crazy style rn. And good god so many of them are nonbinary and t4t.

#queer #pansexual #bisexual #biphobia mention #panphobia mention #transphobia mention

[just-antithings]

I'm in a fandom where the male main character has a female love interest and two close male friends and I am so tired of people shoving the love interest aside to make room to ship him with his friend. It's not that I don't like the best friend ship, it's can be a really appealing ship, it's just that people are constantly hating on the canon love interest instead of just like, leaving her out. Like, come on, she's not any more "poorly written" than anyone else in the story, if she was male there would already be like 5000 angsty fics about her backstory, you're (general you) just being misogynistic.

Yeah unfortunately a lot of queer people in fandom seem Obsessed with objectifying same sex relationships and making characters "actually gay" (only interested in the same sex VS pan/bisexual)

Like some of us are mspec and like m/f couples actually, it's not "lesser" to ship an m/f pairing over a m/m or f/f one.

#its smth ive noticed #when people day fetishizing they meam objrctifying and they arent thr same thing #mod seraphim #misogyny mention #biphobia mention #panphobia mention

[impscar]

bisexuality, pansexuality, and omnisexuality

I used to do a lot of research on the topic when I was still exploring orientations, but bisexuality, pansexuality, and omnisexuality are all different things with different definitions.

pansexuality: being attracted to all genders without preference.

bisexuality: being attracted to two or more genders.

omnisexuality: being attracted to all genders with preference

bisexuality is an orientation on it's own, but it's also an umbrella/parent term. pansexual and omnisexual people are technically bisexual, since they're attracted to two or more genders. pansexuality is NOT biphobic. saying that is inherently panphobic AND biphobic, seeing the previous point of pansexual people falling under the bisexual category. I see a lot of people saying this (especially uneducated people or little kids) and it pisses me off. we as a community should not be warring against each other, but instead helping to support each other. i used the label of panromantic before realizing I was never into girls and all my love goes out to bi, pan, and omni people 💖

#lgbtq positivity #lgbtq #discourse #? #cw discourse #biphobia mention #panphobia #biphobia #omnisexual #bisexual #pansexual #lgbt discourse #queer positivity #panphobia mention

[androgynousblackbox]

Things that bother me as a pan/bi person from the bi community (and everyone in general)

The titite is somewhat clickbait because many of the things I am going to talk about are stuff I have seen from people all over the rainbow and even outside of it. It’s not especial of the bi community at all. But I know, I just know many of you out there are never going to read about pansexuality or a pan’s person experience or, god forbid, panphobia unless somehow I also make it about you or make it seem like I am going to join the ever so useless and worthless “bi vs pan” discourse.   Also, I am pissed because I keep seeing videos from bi people making videos talking about the entire mpsec experience, getting shit incredibly wrong and just fucking never including a pan perspective or really any input at all from anyone who isn’t bi already. So consider this also my opportunity to vent. If you never did any of the things I am about to talk about, congratulations, this is not about you. If you did any of them and never thought before about how it could ever be bad, it’s okay, now you know. If you think me, as a bi person, cannot talk about my own community about the issues I see inside of it, goodbye. Let’s start, shall we. 1. Always bringing out “the history of how pan is problematic actually” whenever anyone as much mention the existence of pan Let’s put it this way: bisexuality wasn’t always understood and defined by everyone as it was on the manifesto (published by the renamed Bi and Pan Network, funny how everybody forgets that!). If someone says it was, they are lying. There was a moment in which bisexual women and lesbian were one and the same. There was a moment in which bisexual was a biological term to talk about intersexual. Queer is literally a slur that we decided with time to take as our badge of honor. Literally every single word that queer people use for themselves had complicated histories and, yes, problematic ones too. But we don’t bring out how bisexual “is actually about being intersex” whenever bi people talk, we generally understand that telling to an openly queer person “you can’t use queer, that is a slur!” is on bad taste. And yet, some people feel way too fucking comfortable weaponizing their own understand of history whenever it comes to pan people and then making it our own problem, as if we have to respond to memes from the fucking 2012 about “hearts, not parts” in order to defend our right to exist as pan people now. I would never even think making every single bi person responsible for every single shitty thing a bi person has ever done, so why is okay to do it for pan people as a whole? Why I keep seeing long comments talking about “the history” whenever someone just talks about being pan at all and nobody calls that out as the shitty move that it is? By the way, this has another face: when a pan person talks about having a bad experience with the bi community, a bi person or literally anyone else, for being pan specifically, and some person comes bludging their way through to talk in direct response about how they have met pan people wanting to force to identify as pan when they are bi, as if they expect this pan to shut up about their own issues in order to respond for those fucking randos that have nothing to do with them or what they were talking about..This is rude, just in principle, but also so fucking entitled? To expect and demand attention for your complaints AS A RESPONSE to someone talking about their own grievances? Imagine that you literally just hurt yourself impacting your toe against the table, said “oh” and someone comes crashing the window to tell you that OH BUT YOUR TWICE REMOVE COUSIN THOUGH, he told me I am ugly, therefore you have nothing to complain about! It sounds absurd because it is absurd, and yet, so fucking normal to undermine pan people’s experiences like this. 2. They have the history all fucking wrong

On one hand you have the people who will actually use the manifesto (again, published by the Bi and Pan Network, in case you forgot) to try to define pansexuality out of existence. “See, see! Bi ALREADY means attraction to all gender so we don’t need pansexuality and therefore pansexual people are actually biphobes for even implying that our identity is not enough for everyone!” That exact same manifesto you all use as your hammer of truth literally tells you to fuck off. “Many of us choose not to label ourselves anything at all, and find the word 'bisexual' to be inadequate and too limiting. Do not assume that the opinions expressed are shared by all bisexuals, by those actively involved in the Bisexual Movement, by the ATM staff, or the BABN Board of Directors.”

The people who literally wrote the manifesto are supportive of people identifying as pan, so what the actual fuck do you think you are doing pretending as if our mere existence is somehow erasure? Those exact same people would think you are a fool. Just imagine how you look right now, not that different. On the other hand, you have supposed “experts” who will tell you, with absolutely confidence, that pansexuality originated in Tumblr, that was born out of MOGAI (which shows too how they DO NOT understand MOGAI either because the point of it was to include everyone, even bi, so technically speaking bi, lesbian and gay are also under the umbrella of MOGAI) because they screenshotted one image of the flag coming from a tumblr user. This is very fucking easy to debunk information. If you do want to research the history of pan, it’s not difficult to find at all. But these “experts” couldn’t be fucking bothered to do a single google research because, what, who cares, right? The cherry on top is when, from these misinformation, then they come out with even more fucking wild assumptions that literally anyone can debunk: things like how “nobody does pan activist offline” or how pan people do not have an actual history or activist history at all. Those are all fucking lies that panphobes just keep repeating without ever recieving the backlash that they deserve. 3. Every talk about panphobia has to be a talk about biphobia actually, panphobia doesn’t exist I can’t tell you the amount of times I have seen pan people talking any particular way they have been targetted for being pan (erasure, discrimination, you name it), only for the response to be “oh but I have lived the same and I am bi, therefore it’s actually biphobia and we should be talking about that first!” Like how fucking ass way is that to act.  An extension of this is on other things, like how people will say “I just define pan as bi with another name/it’s a microlabel for bi” and then are SHOCKED that you have the goal to call that panphobia. How can it panphobic if they recognize people can identify as pan? Shouldn’t be enough that they aren’t being attacked for using the label? The thing is, they do get attacked for using the label and saying “okay, but you are actually bi so it’s fine uwu” is just another form of erasure. Also another reason why many people prefer mspec as a umbrella term rather than “bi umbrela/bi spectrum”. Pansexual people, just like polysexual, omnisexual and trisexual identify as those term because those are the term that resonate with them, that describe their experience and just feel right to them. Can you not imagine for one second how insulting it is to have someone come and tell you that no, actually you are this other term you don’t want or have anything to do with, because we said so. Bisexuality is not a default identity. It’s a full identity on itself, just like pansexuality/polysexualy/omnisexuality are full identities on themselves that deserve their own recognition without being shoved with other group. 4. The belief that somehow pansexual people are “escaping” biphobia and are more accepted for being pan This is just blatantly, objectively, factually and logically wrong. It doesn’t make any fucking sense. Literally all the crap that bi people lived, pan people lived it as well but they also have to live with everything above and see it go unchallenged by very vocal bi “activists” who preach about how the rest of the LGBT+ community doesn’t support them and somehow never realize that doesn’t happen for pan people either. It’s not a competion, but if it was, why do you assume you would win by default? Being pan is not a escape of fucking anything except identifying specifically as bi. That is the only thing that changes, but the erasure, the discrimination, the people creating stereotypes about you, defining your identity without your consent, calling you names for using a label over another, treating you as an invader for coming into “monosexual spaces”, people considering you not enough straight and not enough queer? Pan people live all of that too, also from the LGBT+ community. And our bi siblings treating us as somehow the privileged bunch that don’t know what they go through doesn’t help shit. 5. All the faces of bi vs pan discourse

The mere fact that there is such a thing like battleaxe bis is frankly embarassing enough, it is embarassing for me, but then there is this whole attitude where we can’t even mention the existence of pan without bringing bi people first. The only time pan (bad) history is brought up is by talking about bi history. Pan people’s issues are rarely discuss with as much openness and support as bi people’s ones. I have yet to see a single “LGBT+ activist” on youtube making a single video about panphobia. But videos about bi vs pan discourse where they do literally everything I said above, and more, those even right now I keep seeing and I am so fucking tired that I am meant to see this as a good thing, as support, because see, they AKNOWLEDGE pansexuality exist, isn’t that enough? No, it isn’t. Pan people deserve more than that. We all do. They are not tag alongs, they are not a second thought, they are not just part of this fucking ridiculous joke of a discourse. They are an actual group of people who keep living and having issues even when June is over and peope move on. They are not “bi with another name”, “another name for bi”, “another face of bi”. They are full blown identities with our own long and complicated history beyond this fucking joke of a website, beyond your discourse, beyond the two pan people who told you “eh, shouldn’t you be pan if you like all?” one time in twitter or wherever the fuck, beyond any relationship with bisexuality as a whole. And it bother me so fucking much because it’s more about “bi and pan solidarity uwu!” rather than pan support, uplifting pan people, pan positivity, as if we don’t exist anywhere else and don’t have any other issues outside of this imaginery silly boxing match against bi people, who should be the people who understand pan people better than anyone else, should know exactly what it is to be redefined, ignored and talked over by other, but many, way too many, are not.  Fuck, I have even seen “activist” criticizing how pan people don’t go out to support bi people or fight for bi issues (which is a fucking lie, again, think the Bi and Pan Network) and yet have their entire body work being about bi people, bringing up pan just to say how injust is that have that label force on them when they are bi, just bi, entirely bi and not a flavor of pan. But pan people want to do the same for themselves, talk for their own shit for once and get accused of throwing bi people under the bus. It’s like people treat us as cojointed twins, but only one of them is generally accepted as their own individual while the other is kept in that same position no matter what they do. This is not to put down the bi community. I know we can be a welcoming, understanding, warm and open community. But we need to do better because right now, we are not doing that and this shit, this exact shit, only harm us all and won’t ever help us in the long run. Do better.

#andro is venting #panphobia mention #biphobia mention #queer stuff #lgbt+ stuff

[keplerspacecraftofficial]

what i think a lot of panphobes or whatever they call themselves r missing out on is that a significant percentage of the bi and pan ppl i know did not pick a label based on the exact definition, they picked it based on the colors. anyways bi/pan solidarity our flags r both sexy even if i like purple better

#how do i tag this. i never know #panphobia mention

[raccoonzinspace]

Honestly, if I receive any acephobia or whatnot directly at me specifically, I might turn it into a joke and throw it back in their face. I make fun of myself enough to not really care. :)

Though, if someone is homophobic/transphobic/biphobic/panphobic/acephobic/etc towards my friends then I'll probably fight that person.

#lgbtq+ #self deprecation #homophobia mention #transphobia mention #biphobia mention #panphobia mention #acephobia mention #terfs dni #exclusionists dni

[kim-poce]

CW: panphobia, internalized aphobia

While Isabelly tried to force Evie to sleep with men only, she never tried to force Alex to sleep with woman, she didn't think he was worth the problem since Evie would be the one who would lead the organization.

Also, Alex is a gay sex-repulsed ace, and he has no idea ace people exist, he thinks he is broken, and he deserves a whole more lot of emotional whump to go through.

#oc ramble #panphobia mention #panphobia tw #aphobia mention #aphobia tw #Evie #Alex #Alex and Neo #not whump #lady whumpee

[naturalbornlosers]

love blocking panphobes on a wednesday evening <3

#don't rb #one of my cohosts is pan and if you have a problem with that die by my blade #panphobia mention #Statement.txt

[tenderpreyy]

​I’m thinking again about Astarions sexuality and how I've seen some people (to be fair, just a few) talk about it. Mainly, people pointing out his flamboyant behavior, and that us as players are learning more about his past male lovers than female ones and basically all these things for some people pointing to him being gay or at least not interested in women in the same way he is in men. And him only being a romance option regardless of gender, because, well, all companions are and he is therefore just "playersexual", only showing interest in female player characters because he has to, because of the game mechanics.

I think what really rubs me the wrong way about this topic is that it echoes the kind of things bi/pan people (speaking as a bisexual woman myself) find themselves dealing with irl. Whether through some form of internalized biphobia or from the outside through other people's comments. Of course this is about a fictional character so it’s not like he has any feelings that could be hurt. But when i see people tallying up how often he mentions men vs. how often he mentions women it really reminds me of a way of thinking I sometimes fall into in regards to my own sexuality. This is definitely just an internalized response and not something I actually believe when I truly think about it for a second, but I know these patterns of thought very well. Of observing my own behavior. How often do I find which gender attractive? Am I attracted "enough" to women? Do I talk about men's attractiveness too often? Is it the other way around? Am I only saying this woman is attractive to prove something to myself? I literally have a girlfriend and my attitude towards mine or other's sexual orientation is generally a huge big "whatever, I don't care". And I still have a passing thought like that from time to time.

So seeing people talk about a fictional character in this way really sends home how many people (whether consciously or unconsciously) see attraction as some sort of equation, you can solve, where in the end you get a result of either gay or straight.

#bg3 #baldurs gate 3 #baldur's gate 3 #astarion #this has been sitting in my drafts for a few days but i thought why not just post it. its been on my mind. #i saw someone in the notes under a post about astarion literally counting off how often he mentions men vs women #and asking for proof of where he shows he is in fact attracted to women. #like... do you see what you're doing here?? #aaaand another thing since people love bringing up his flamboyancy.... he is obviously playing that up a lot #because you know... that whole 'i have to seduce people so i am safe' thing #not saying that thats not also the real him but breaking it down to flamboyant=gay makes even less sense in the context. #its not that i think people shouldn't headcanon him as gay or asexual or whatever #i think thats great too. seeing different people's readings of the character. #just.... leave out the bi-/panphobia ffs. people dont have to show proof that they are in fact bi/pan.

[vspin]

Love how 2 days ago everyone in the fandom was like "don't make fun of people's OCs!!"

And then I log on and see a popular post doing just that...

#yes that applies to shit you arent into personally and think is cringe #if u know u know #not to mention the blatant panphobia and misogyny #only thing im gonna say about this

[furbearingbrick]

discourse-poisoned lgbt+ zoomers after erasing/demonizing huge chunks of their own history, lying about the origins of good-faith identities, and suicide-baiting inclusionists:

[Image ID: SpongeBob SquarePants and Patrick Star smiling with a ruined, burning city in the background. The caption reads: “We did it, Patrick! We saved gays!” End ID.] 

#im tired #aphobia discussion #arophobia discussion #panphobia discussion #exorsexism discussion #anti battleaxe bi #anti longsword lesbian #brick speaks #suicide mention #pyrophobia

[just-antithings]

I love getting my community history from a 17 year old, especially a 17 year old exclusionist /s

#mod erin #dni hall of shame #just exclusionist things #image #panphobia mention #this post contains sarcasm

[thee-radio-host-is-a-kookaburra]

That anon really does remind me of ppl who would call pansexuals and asexuals slurs and harass them and make rape threats and death threats and suicide bait them all under the guise of “they don’t face discrimination so it’s okay”.

#tw rape mention #aphobia #panphobia #transandrophobia

[this-world-of-beautiful-monsters]

just had to unfollow/block someone for boosting bi/pan discourse in the Year Of Our Bored 2024....can we please stop wasting time yammering about the versions of other people's identities we make up in our heads please and thank you.

#was gonna block everyone else who interacted with that post but there were too many and I remembered I actually have a life #anyway #anti panphobia #anti biphobia #bi/pan solidarity #queer #queer communiy #queer solidarity #pansexual #bisexual #discourse mention #queerphobia #panphobia #biphobia #queerphobia mention #discourse

[skyler10fic]

Queerness is not a competition; it's a community

It's not a competition, y'all.

This week I have seen (mostly allo cis) people saying that ace and aro perspectives don't matter or can't be talked about or aren't important because "trans people are dying." And then other people say trans people are distracting from the true issues/purpose of the gay/lesbian movement centered on romance and sex. And then that bi/pan people are just fence-riding and need to either be "in or out" of queerness by refusing to date in het-passing relationships. Then others say nonbinary is a phase. And on and on it goes.

Stop it.

Aphobia isn't excusable just because trans people have it worse. You know like a third of the ace and aro communities are trans, right?

You know trans people are why we have rights to begin with because they were on the front lines from the start?

You know queerness isn't just about expanding amatonormativity to gay romance and sex, right?

You know queerness is all about rejecting binaries and living outside of society's boxes, right?

You know it's the normativity that is the enemy, not het people and het-passing relationships, right?

Collective liberation. We're never going to get free by fighting each other or dismissing one part of us as unimportant.

#lgbtqia+ #y'all means all #we're in this together #STOP IT #aphobia mention #transphobia mention #biphobia and panphobia mention #enbyphobia mention

[wreckitremy]

As much as I usually agree with the point of the posts that have a certain kind of phrase in it, I'm getting tired of these phrases in general and I've finally pinpointed why.

These phrases are usually something like "irl communities don't care about your discourse" or "only people who've never interacted with the community in real life, would be so concerned about this"

These are usually said in response to exclusionists, as a flippant dismissal of their hatred. Now flippant dismissal has its place, but not in the essays these phrases are in. It's usually mixed in with explanations of history of the community, and personal anecdotes about time spent in irl communities.

Up until last month, I hadn't really gone to any places for the community. There isn't much in Kansas. So I didn't feel I had the right to speak up about this phrase. But then we had our first state pride event last month.

Now, I was prepared for it to be underwhelming bc I was already somewhat aware of how pride seems to be romanticized (as social events usually are) and, as previously mentioned, it's Kansas. But that didn't mean some things didn't sting. And they have me thinking on these phrases that keep cropping up.

These phrases, while said by people against exclusionists, imply a lot of things, that don't necessarily help.

They imply that irl communities are inherently better

Irl communities are going to be varied. Just bc irl communities in L.A. are really great, doesn't mean that the ones in rural red states are going to be great. And even the best ones, are going to be white skinny cis gay centered.

I don't think we had more than 100 people show up to our pride event, most of them only showed up half way through, and I got misgendered 4 times. I didn't even bring out the super difficult pronouns, just they/them.

They imply that only interacting with the community online is inherently toxic

A lot of people still believe that trolls don't act that way in real life, despite studies showing that they do act that way offline. They just do it behind closed doors, or to people in customer service.

Not to mention, online communities are the only way a lot of ppl have to interact with the community, be it bc of rural problems, disability, or safety reasons.

If it weren't for online communities, I would have probably never even heard of any of my identities. I didn't fall for exclusionist rhetoric, bc my identities are their targets.

Those who aren't a target, avoid falling for it bc they haven't been exposed to it, or they personally know someone who is a target, not bc they've been to a bar has a pride flag hanging somewhere on the premises.

They imply that not caring is the same as acceptance

Our community has a real problem with acting like coming out is a big one time event where you either get kicked out/beaten up, or you get glowing acceptance out the wazoo.

But the reality is that you have to decide to "come out" every time you interact with anyone, and a lot of that is just quiet indifference or the silent treatment. Getting treated like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum, just for not hiding your queerness, isn't acceptance.

I call this being in the glass closet, bc I never hide any of my queerness, but the assumptions that come from non queer people, are still the ones associated with being in the closet.

Now a lot of the reason non queer people never treat me with obvious queerphobia, is bc my identities aren't one of the basic ones that even non queer people have heard of. My oldest one is my ace identity, which brings me to my final point.

It mirrors exclusionist rhetoric

Now if you"re thinking that 'too many people are crying terf/exclusionist rhetoric these days' you've already swallowed more of it than I'm willing to get into today.

One of the most popular phrases that exclusionists still throw at aces, is "nobody cares what you do in the bedroom"

It was said to shut aces up, bc by pretending that aces aren't oppressed, they could justify not making space for them in the community. And if any aces tried to call this out, it was met with something like "oh I don't hate you, I just don't care".

These phrases get plastered onto ace PSAs, trying to keep aces from speaking up, making space for themselves in the community, and educating others on what support the ace community needs. And then these people have the audacity to say they are neutral on ace discourse, bc they don't hate ace people, they just think they aren't a real identity.

They apply this across the board to any identity they feel is unworthy to be considered part of the club.

So when I see claims that irl communities don't care about the infighting, all I see is that they will choose neutrality and side with the oppressor.

Not caring enough to hate, is not acceptance.

#aphobia discussion #exclu mention #terf mention #asexual #ace #microlabels #queer pride #aphobia #pride events #lgbt+ #queer #pansexual #panphobia #not gay as in happy but queer as in fuck you #october 2022