#loki series speculation
On the nature of Loki & Mobius' relationship...
I keep seeing a myriad posts where people either make it into a father-son relationship, or an elder-younger sibling relationship, or friends, or even a romantic ship. (I do understand that most of these are in good fun and I like them. 😁👍)
I don't think it's either of those, but there are certain moments where one can see them both temporarily morphing into the above mentioned dynamics.
IMO, their relationship isn't something so simple. It can't be fully pinned. At least, not yet. It's still in its nascent stages, shifting form based on how they both respond to each other and their circumstances.
Loki is in a truly tight situation, where he is still a hostage of the TVA. He knows that his life depends on his compliance to TVA's demands. He also knows that the moment he fulfills all these demands, the TVA is going to disintegrate him, because he's a variant. So he's playing along, going undercover as a nonthreatening temp agent who is willing to work for the TVA.
Mobius is the representative of the TVA who is given the charge of Loki. He is essentially Loki's handler. It's his job to make Loki comply in order to find the rogue variant messing with the TVA. Along with that, he has to keep Loki in line too. It's shown that Mobius is very dedicated to his job. It's the most important thing to him. So we've seen that he is willing to take some drastic, even risky measures to do it. These measures include him stopping the pruning of Loki, him (in his perspective) deradicalising Loki in order to use him to find the other variant, him going to 79AD Pompeii with Loki in order to test his theory, etc.
Mobius doesn't trust Loki... but he trusts him enough to go to Pompeii with him alone, without an official sanction for this little trip. He understands that Loki wants to escape the TVA, or even influence the Time Keepers to get them to change his destiny. He also seems to understand Loki's inherent vulnerabilities, though not completely.
Mobius' feelings regarding Loki are also changing as the series progresses. In the first episode he clearly tells Loki that his role in the Sacred Timeline is to lose and cause pain and destruction all the time. But when we see him talking to Renslayer privately, he tries to convince her that Loki wants this pattern to change, that he wants to mix it up, that perhaps he doesn't wish to be put in that box of a villain. He asks her if that can happen. That's most important clue to Mobius' progressive change of heart regarding Loki. He is trying, within the limitations of his job, to save Loki from the ultimate pruning. Even though he mentions it in passing that he'd delete Loki himself if he creates more problems for the TVA, we can see that he's basically saying that to appease Renslayer.
Similarly, Loki doesn't trust Mobius, but he trusts him enough to fall asleep in his presence. He very deliberately annoys the hell out of him, tests his patience, ruins his salad, etc. Peak irritant mode.
He knows that Mobius isn't going to actively be hostile towards him, because he needs him. Loki genuinely likes it when Mobius is impressed with his knowledge and intelligence; it's that sweet sweet taste of approval that he never really received from either his family or his people. It's especially enjoyable to work with someone when they appreciate your skills and brains. Loki knows that Mobius is loyal to the TVA, but he also sees him sticking his neck out for him, so he recognizes that little soft spot Mobius has for him.
So, it's a tenuous relationship, where both of them may recognize each other as possible allies, but ultimately are stranded on opposing sides. They're trying meet each other midway, but it's a herculean task to do so.
Theirs is not really a friendship, nor is it a parent-child dynamic. There's no romance there, but plenty of bickering, taunting and teasing. There's an element of conspiratorial joy between them, but it never reaches that of a fraternal relationship. Mobius is hung up on doing his job, and Loki desperately needs a way out.
However, what this relationship certainly is is interesting. It's not static or boring; it keeps us on our toes, leaving us wondering what they'll both do next. As the series progresses, I do think that they'll see-saw their way to a more friendly relationship, and I think it's going to be a narratively fun ride.
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can’t wait to see how loki ends up getting mobius a jet ski
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When they put emphasis on “zero variance energy detected” I initially thought it was because Loki made the disturbing realization that Ragnarok was meant to happen according to the TVA, followed up with outrage or disgust.
I get now that it’s Loki’s apocalypse lightbulb moment but Marvel can pry Loki being devastated by the inevitable deaths of nearly 10,000 of his people being killed out of my cold dead hands.
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Speculation Corner: The TVA has been blocking the Eternals from messing with history too much and the Loki series will somehow allow the Eternals to act with free will thus why they were not involved with the earlier phases of the MCU.
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so the tva thinks they were completely right about loki,, that mobius was wrong, and mobius doesn’t know what to think, but he’s gotta know that loki trusts him, and loki has to deal with running away from the only person he’s trusted in a really long time to join a stranger who doesn’t want the same things as him,,,
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Viewers take Ravonna Renslayer at face value, but my theory is she is working with the mystery analyst who is really a Loki variant to destroy whoever remains of the Timekeepers.
Interesting theory, anon.
Renslayer is definitely shady af.
I personally think she's memory wiping Mobius too.
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i had a sudden realisation!!! if the TVA's job is to destroy the variants and keep the sacred timeline as it is; it means that there might have been another way in Endgame; it means that all the possibilities Strange saw in which none of them died wouldn't work- not because they were wrong but bc the TVA didn't allow them to happen. it means the TVA not only allowed Tony Stark to die, they also made sure he did.
Now I can't stop thinking the TVA killed Tony, i'm not okay
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A question - are we to assume a week passes between each episode or did ep2 follow on almost immediately from ep1?
How long has Loki been at the TVA?
Obviously long enough to have been given some new clothes, long enough to have been expected to watch all the propaganda training videos.
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Screen grab from the latest teaser on Marvels Instagram.
Sorry for the awful quality, but this has to be Bermuda triangle related right?
The shipwreck in the foreground is one of the many that have gone missing and I thing there's a spaceship in the background which fits with some of the theories surrounding the triangle. The blue green shapes in the back might also be the sea of waves?
Maybe this is another TVA blind spot, like the apocalypses, where the loki variants can hide?
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Sylvie pretty clearly gave the kablooie so that the TVA would find her hiding spot. Her plan seems to be to get all the minutemen out of the TVA, but then why would she risk her plans being foiled by leading a team of TVA agents to her? The TVA can detect timeline branchings anyways. Without Loki, who figured it out in just a few minutes, the TVA would have probably never found her. And she did leave the door open for Loki, so I think that she left the kablooie specifically so that Loki would come to her at that point in time.
But how would she know that there would be a Loki working with the TVA? He would have simply been killed if not for Mobius, so this implies that she knows/knew Mobius. Based on his love of 90s stuff, there has been some speculation that Mobius is from the timeline and was brainwashed by the TVA, not created for it. So Sylvie might have known Mobius before he was taken by the TVA and relied on what is left of his personality post-brainwashing. She might have been pretending to be a Loki variant so that Mobius would keep a Loki variant alive.
The coffee rings have been speculated to be his way of trying to figure out how the TVA is messing with him. This would imply that he knows that he is being messed with. This is a bit of a wild theory, but perhaps he is a sleeper agent that Sylvie/whoever she's working with (king Loki?) put into the TVA specifically to get a Loki variant to come with her after she drops the reset charges.
One question still remains. Why bring a Loki variant with her?
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Putting these hypotheses out there so “I can say I knew it” when or possibly if I’m right about any of them;
The big twist in Loki will be that there was already a multiverse and the Timekeepers are just powerful wafflers
There are no Timekeepers
Loki is actually alive in the present sacred timeline having faked his death twice with Variant Loki’s help
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It’s interesting that Mobius describes Loki to Renslayer as arrogant and believing in himself, when Mobius most certainly knows Loki doesn’t like or believe in himself. Is it possible that while Mobius is willing to use Loki’s issues and grief to make him join the TVA, due to compassion or a sense of decency he isn’t willing to expose them to anyone else?
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spoilers for Loki Episode 2 but i got things to say and speculations to make.
I think by the end of this season Loki and Sylvie (Enchantress/The Variant) are going to have a moment that parallels both Odin and Loki and Mobius and Loki’s relationships, but this time Loki will be in the place of the wiser older person and Sylvie will be the hurt younger person.
Sylvie in the comics is a creation of Loki in two ways. One in that she was given powers by him bc he wanted to see what would happen, but also she’s a creation of his in that she doesn’t know if she was ever a person Before Loki gave her powers. If he made her from nothing and just gave her false memories of a past before she was the new Enchantress. That’s a similar parallel to Odin lying to Loki about his origins as a Jotunn instead of an Asgardian and how he was fucking pissed about it. Sylvie seems to really not like Loki despite dressing in his ensemble and faking being him, which is from the fact that she has no idea if she even has anything other than what she is now.
When Mobius talks about how Loki looks like a scared little boy all alone in the rain that is exactly what Sylvie could remember being in the eventual flashback scene (we do have a confirmed actress for a young Enchantress.) Scared and Alone and taken in by Loki but again she’s not even sure if it’s Really what happened so she wants to destroy Loki- all Lokis- for doing this to her. In results, destroying the timeline.
And Loki has to take the responsibility of helping her understand that she is not alone and that there can be people who still love and care about you even if you’re all alone and feel like the worlds turned against you. Because he had to realize that too.
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Definite spoilers for future episodes and some more speculation
Seriously. A spoiler for future episodes was accidentally revealed in the credits, and you might not wanna see it.
If you're still here, let's move on.
The credits for episode two showed that "Lady Loki" is actually Sylvie. So yay! I was right about at least one thing 😁
Anyway, on top of that revelation, in the comics Sylvie was born in Oklahoma and she later moved to New York City, which is where Franklin Delano Roosevelt High School is located - the place where the mysterious pen that Mobius is fretting over came from. The one in New York is one of three by that name in the USA, and the only one whose mascot--a cougar--matches the picture on the pen.
So I am going to theorize here:
At one point, a Loki Variant came to Earth and adopted a young Sylvie Lushton, thinking that he could raise her and teach her magic like Frigga did for him. The TVA eventually found out about this and intervened, erasing the Variant Loki and resetting that timeline.
But (if my other theory holds true) they took Sylvie and mind-wiped her, turning her into an agent. It turns out she was the "Other Analyst" that Ravonna was working with. Sylvie somehow managed to break free of the mind games, though; and remembering what the TVA did to her father, and using her knowledge of how the organization and their technology works, she vowed to destroy them all.
Our Loki learns of this and sympathizes with her, remembering how it felt when he watched his mother get murdered. He says he can't help her destroy everyone in the TVA, though, because if most of them are brainwashed Variants, it wouldn't be right.
She scoffs at this, calling him weak, but he then offers another solution: send all the Variants back to their original timelines. Chaos will reign, and the TVA will be brought to its knees.
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I am now attached to Mobius and if he ends up being evil I’ll cry
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So the Time-Keepers essentially decide history, and even some of the most brutal moments they decide are okay. A few minutes ago I randomly thought how they were fine with the Holocaust happening. Like a prejudice-filled murder spree happened and they decided it belonged in the natural flow of time.
Armenian Genocide? Cool
Trail of Tears? Neat
Some guy who is late to work? Assemble the whole Time Agent task force cause we need to stop this fucker.
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Okay, just watched the second episode of the Loki series so hear me out about my theory, what if Sylvie (the blonde lady in the end) was created by the Lady Loki (variant)
Comic-wise it would make so much sense, Lady Loki is the one that explains that Sylvie got her powers because of Loki, it would explain why she is wearing Loki's horns, she found out she was created by Loki and decided to kill the Lady Loki -variant and take her place and is now on the run from TVA (because she was created by a time variant which makes her also a variant)
Also the narative of Sylvie killing the person who created her would fit the series' so well (Killing your own god? Changing your fate? Anyone?)
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The timekeepers clearly don’t exist.
They are Big Brother. They are a symbol.
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Episode two be wild
Episode Two Loki Spoilers
As all of you probably have heard technically speaking loki is about 16-18 years old due to how Asgardians age.
But like this whole episode all I could see was Mobius being a tired parent and loki being a chaotic problem child.
The way he was sitting outside Renslayers office? Peak sent to the principal energy.
I just I can’t Describe it but truely Amazing
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everybody’s talking about how intense the episode 2 ending was but this is what really made me break :
Just look at this face.
At first glance, it may not seem like much. But Loki was already wondering whether he should go with the woman (i’m not naming her yet) when he heard Mobius call and he turned back. You can see that he was torn for that split second what to do, because even though the variant is ‘evil’ (not making any assumptions), he wants to know more. And he knows the TVA won’t bother with knowing why she’s doing this, because they’re stuck with the same propaganda of no free will and the Sacred Timeline, essentially spelling it out that nobody had no control over their actions and Loki, the God of Chaos, absolutely hates that.
But Mobius helped him. Sure, he emotionally analysed him and made him reveal his true self (that was neither therapy nor torture), and he can delete him anytime, and he’s using him, but he’s also the only guy who stuck with Loki. There was no deception, and the terms were clear. Loki also enjoyed his company and conversations and he was always honest about why he didn’t trust Loki, and still listened to him. They manipulated each other, but they both know each others loyalties and so Loki had some actual, healthy friendship with someone in a longtime.
And then Loki had to go. I can’t blame him though, it looked like the others were going to erase Loki, but the fact that Mobius was shouting after him really made my heart ache.
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