#hela meta

[galaxythreads]

Loki had no right to envy thor and praise the ground frigga walked on when odin was a shitty dad to all three of his kids

Alright! Time to talk about something that is not discussed enough: jealousy between siblings that grew up in parental abuse/neglectful situations.

As someone who grew up in an abusive/neglectful environment and has siblings, + knows many people who have the same set of parameters, jealousy between siblings is sort of natural byproduct because guess what!

Parents never, never, never abuse/neglect every kid in their family in exactly the same way.

My parents were awful to my siblings in ways they weren't to me, but I'm jealous of the good things they did to for them because they didn't do that with me (i.g. when I was looking for a job last year, i got yelled at every time I failed; when my sister was looking for a job, my parents were very present for her emotionally and assured her she was doing the best she could when she didn't get the job. Their patience was absurd to me) Stuff like that + bigger things. If we were neglected/abused in exactly the same way, my sister would have gotten yelled at, too, or I would have gotten support, but it didn't happen like that because parents don't DO that, even in healthy environments, parents are never the same parents to their kids.

Likewise in ways they were awful to my siblings, they were LESS awful to me, so my siblings are jealous of that. when you're raised in an environment where you have to fight for love and scraps of affection when your parents are in a parenting mood, you are always jealous when someone manages to get the scrap. Like yes, your siblings (often) become your closest friends and confidants in that situation because there's no one else who understands it like they do, but because the abuse/neglect is so different for everyone, it causes resentment.

So here's the thing: Thor, Hela, and Loki were not abused in the same way. Loki can have an amazing, healthy relationship with Frigga (he does not, but we can pretend for a moment) and Thor is fighting for scraps of love from her. (Parents and their parenting moods are weird) and Thor can resent Loki for that because he needs a mom too. Thor can get all the attention from Odin and have a healthier (it is not healthy) relationship with Odin, and Loki can resent him for that, even though he has a "good" relationship with Frigga, because he still needs a dad. Hela can have been banished and raised as Odin's sword and have NO good or even good-ish relationships with Frigga and Odin and she resents Thor and Loki for that because she needed parents.

But is all their trauma valid even though the WAY they were traumatized is different? Yes. Can we look at them and objectively choose the "worst" victim between the three of them? No. We can't. Because different things traumatize people differently. And why should we? it's not a competition. Even though parental abuse/neglect has a tendency to pit siblings against each other despite (usually) said siblings best efforts otherwise, it is NOT A COMPETITION.

Loki has every right to be angry with Odin over what he did to him even though Odin was terrible to all his children because IT! IS! NOT! A! COMPETETION! ABOUT WHO WAS ABUSED MORE! The most suffering victim doesn't "earn" the right to be traumatized. everyone was traumatized. Everyone gets therapy. They're just going to talk about different things in therapy and THEY ARE ALL STILL TRAUMATIZED.

I guarantee to you that if they were real people, Thor would absolutely be jealous of Loki and Hela. Loki would be jealous of Hela and Thor. Hela would be jealous of Thor and Loki, EVEN THOUGH all of them are being abused, it's just the fact they're not being abused in the same way.

And this is WHY I am always in awe of their relationship in canon because it is one of the best written sibling relationships under abuse I have ever seen because it is REAL. (The Umbrella Academy s1 did this spectacularly, also, btw) Sibling relationships under abuse are so so so messy because everyone is in survival mode and it causes SO MANY issues.

and guess what! Everyone IS jealous of each other

^ Thor's resentment that he wasn't taught anything by Frigga (listen to the way he says this, he is very jealous and bitter, i WISH they had poked this more)

^ hela jealous odin replaced her with Thor

^ loki jealous that Thor got more attention than he did from their parents + people in general (all this attention wasn't a good thing) (funnily enough, for someone who is said to be SUPER jealous, this is the only time in canon I can think of Loki actually admitting that he is)

so anyway, sibling resentment HAPPENS but everyone is still abused/neglected and it all sucks and EVERYONE deserves therapy. And hey, if Frigga decided to actually be a parent to one of her kids (she didn't) then I am HAPPY because at least SOMEONE got a parent, even though Thor deserved a mom just as much as Loki did.

#thor meta #loki meta #hela meta #hela #loki #thor #odin's a+ parenting #child abuse #we do not talk about sibling relationships and abuse enough #it would have helped me so much when I was younger if I knew any of this instead I just thought i was a monster #turns out i was just 13 and exhausted

[musclesandhammering]

There’s zero chance Loki and Hela having so many similarities is just a coincidence. And even though we’re most definitely never getting a full explanation for it, I’m so curious as to what you guys believe the reason is. Do you think:

a.) Loki’s a shapeshifter who can see people’s memories when he touches them. So when Odin picked him up as a baby, he saw Hela in Odin’s mind and shifted himself to resemble her.

b.) Loki and Hela have the same biological mother.

c.) Hela is Loki’s biological mother.

d.) Odin changed Loki to look like Hela when he first held him, because he missed her.

e.) Hela’s biological mother is jotun, and she and Loki both have black hair/pale skin/green aesthetic/etc because that’s just what frost giants look like when they take an asgardian form.

f.) Hela and Loki are both adopted, both children of Laufey. Odin took Hela centuries earlier, then when he realised Laufey’d had another child, he took Loki too.

**I’ve listed these in order from the ones I find most likely to least likely, if you’re curious. Tell me which headcanon you prefer, I wanna see.

#e & f are just sorta crack theories to me I don’t think they would ever actually be canon #and c is a cool theory that’s been circulating around fandom that I love #but I don’t think the mechanics actually work #like hela seemed to be gone before loki was born so I don’t think those timelines would match up #if I had to pick one of these to be true I would confidently say b #I’m like 85% sure loki and hela are half siblings with the same bio mom #and the fact that Odin and Laufey had kids by the same woman would also add to their feud probably idk #hela #loki #Odin #thor ragnarok #loki meta #hela meta #hela odinsdottir #what if season 2 #loki laufeyson #loki odinson #mcu #thor movies

[lucianalight]

Uhh...well this post turned out really weird. I don't even know what this is lol. First part is more meta, and second part is more headcanon. I just really needed to get these thoughts out of my head :D

I still couldn't get over the fact that Odin had planned and gifted both Hela and Thor with a powerful artifact(Hela's helmet and Mjolnir) and decided to later gave them one more(Gungnir) for ruling, and yet he gave Loki nothing. It really showed how Odin viewed Loki among all his three children and preferred to ignor him. He seriously went from telling the brothers that both of them were born to be kings but only (heavily implied the worthy) one could ascend to the throne(which basically made sure that these brothers are going to compete for it), to giving Thor Mjolnir, then the throne and Gungir would have come with it, making Thor the most powerful he could be and in the brothers' eye the worthier and the winner("This was to be my day of triumph"), and yet he expected Loki to be ok with it? To not try desperately to figure out why Thor was favored while it was Loki who was the more thoughtful one, who understood ruling better? And then people wonder why Loki was jealous of Thor. And you know what? He had every right to be envious of Thor because how Odin treated Loki was so damn unfair.

Then I realized actually this is not completely true. Odin did in fact plan to give Loki a powerful artifact.

The day he showed the Casket of Ancient Winters to the boys, just as he had showed Hela the helmet when she was a kid. The time he talked about "evil Frost Giants", never bothered to correct Thor that they weren't monsters, scared Loki of his own race and people to the point that he asked whether the Frost Giants still live. And then told them that they were both born to be kings, but only one can ascend to the throne of Asgard. The other gets the throne of "monsters" he was meant to as a puppet king under Asgard's control, bringing their treasure back and remake what Odin had destroyed years ago.

We never found out when these plans didn't matter anymore. Was it before or after Jotunheim? Or did Odin have another reason? Could it be that he was so afraid of Loki's power he preferred not to encourage him for his magic, or give him anything that could make him stronger? After all "a king must tame his threats to ensure they fight for him".

This line of thought made me question sth else. What Odin was talking about when he mentioned "threat" to Hela and showing her the helmet? We know he was talking about Fenrir and implying it about Hela too. But why did he mention taming a threat and showing her a helmet that clearly made her upset and uncomfortable?

Now we get into the more headcanon-y part.

Let's go back in time a little and observe some Asgradian choices in fashion, weapons and politics during centuries.

This is Bor, father of Odin with horns on his helmet and Gungnir in his hands, killing the dark elves. Bor later was considered a hero for basically genocide.

Odin Borson. His helmet has some considerable changes from Bor. It has horns and wings and Hela's helmet. He is standing alone with Gungnir.

Later Odin has given Hela the helmet and conquers the realms with her help, following his father's steps to more extremes.

I assume during their conquests Odin made the Dwarfs build Mjolnir and gave it to Hela.

Then he stops at the nine realms, banishes Hela and keeps Mjolnir with all other stolen relics in Asgards' vault.

He later gives Mjolnir to Thor. But that's not the only thing Thor inherits from him.

Thor's helmet carries the wings of Odin's, and Loki's helmet bears the horns.

(Which is a nice symbolism for the roles of golden child and scapegoat Thor and Loki have in their family dynamic but I digress). He has basically divided all he had between his three children. The helmets of his three kids together make his original helmet in the mural.

What I was trying to get at with this, is that since Odin didn't wear the helmet after Hela and was keeping it in the vault, and referring to it as sth related to a threat, I headcanon that the helmet originally didn't belong to him and he got it from the someone else during a battle as he tends to steal powerful objects from people he defeats. Considering Hela's reaction she probably knew the story behind it. We've seen Odin likes to tell the stories of his wars to his children while showing them the trophies.

So who was the original owner of Hela's helmet? And why Odin had decided to give it to Hela? This implies he was sure Hela could use the Helmet's power, but why? Well, I have another headcanon :D What if the original owner of the Helmet was Hela's mother? Hela never mentions her mother, and she knew the helmet was going to be hers and wasn't happy about it. Odin could have taken it from his first girlfriend and killed her or imprisoned her, telling Hela that her mother was an enemy, to make sure she never talks about her or questions Odin. This also fits well with my other headcanon that Hela's Loki mother :D Because a child who had inherited her mother's magic and Jotun's powers could be exceptionally powerful and Odin had to tame that threat.

Congrats! You've reached the end of this incredibly messy post. Here's a realistic rendering of me while I was writing it :D

#yes loki's the most powerful character in the mcu and odin feared his power #don't @ me or I link you to even more longer posts :P :D #how do i tag this lol #odin's a+ parenting #odin #thor #loki #hela #loki headcanon #hela headcanon #loki meta #meta #long post

[thevibraniumveterans]

S2 of WHAT IF…

Ep1- “…Nebula joined the Nova Corps?”

Love the bleak opening sequence

Fascinating how Nebula narrates the context. Her “five years of isolation” hits hard.

Nova Prime siding with Ronan was a surprise

Ep2- “…Peter Quill Attacked Earth’s Mightiest Heroes?”

Cool intro; Peter leaning into his inherent powers is interesting…

The Winter Soldier being Gorbachev’s tool to contain Peter is surprising, but not unexpected…

“Does anyone have a plan?”/“I have a plan; retreat.” 😂

Thor announcing that Peter killed off all the Nine Realms except Earth; Peter needed containment to prevent him being too powerful.

Hope breaking Peter out is unexpected.

But Peter defeating his dad is a great ending.

Ep3- “…Happy Hogan Saved Christmas?”

Cool X’mas riff in the beginning music

Avengers Tower… looking festive.

Happy getting accidentally injected with Banner blood is unexpected.

Beethoven’s 9th riff playing when Darcy discovers a whole collection!

“Time for the Hammer to get nailed” 🤣

Overall, great X’mas episode.

Ep4- “…Iron Man Crashed into the Grandmaster?”

Cool that the Guardians of the Multiverse (from S1) are back!

Gamora’s origin story is a Tony Stark episode that looks to focus a bit on Valkyrie? Interesting…

Wonder what Gamora is doing there.

The little Chinchilla is adorable.

Tony with the nicknames (“Technicolor Dream Coat” is a Andrew Lloyd Webber musical reference) is hilarious

Also, Tony building a suit that reforms into a race car on command, and back, is AWESOME

Turns out, Tony inspired Gamora to be a hero.

Gamora melting Thanos, did not see that coming.

Ep5- “…Captain Carter Fought the Hydra Stomper?”

Cool Avengers team; with Carter and Janet instead of Steve and Banner.

It’s kind of what if 2012’s Battle of New York went differently. Then we pick up kind of CATWS but it’s Peggy and Nat.

Peggy’s spin-twist was really cool.

The whole reverse-CATWS but instead of Bucky gone bad and Steve finding out, it’s Steve gone bad and Peggy finding out.

Bucky as a Secretary of State? Did NOT see that coming. But makes sense that Bucky would be the one to try to bring Steve back. Truly a reverse CATWS.

The Stomper Suit keeping Steve alive, I wonder how.

Carter’s hilarious Star Wars reference to carbonite.

Also, the camera panning around Steve and Peggy, is a mirror of the Tony/Pepper one in Endgame.

Melina being part robot is also kind of creepy.

Captain Carter having a musical is hilarious too

Also, the emotional vibes kind of veering into CACW and “Black Widow” territory is quite fascinating.

Peggy disappears thru a portal, only to be greeted by Wanda.

Ep6- “…Kahhori Reshaped the World?”

Ragnarok comes early…

Also, this episode isn’t the first time we see the horrors of Spanish conquistadors invading on native land; we last saw that in Wakanda Forever a few years ago.

But when the Watcher narrates the context, it mirrors the Black Panther movie’s narrative about how the Vibranium came to Earth and ended with the peacemaking between various tribes.

Also great to note that this is the first MCU entry where nobody, except the Watcher (and Stephen Strange at the end) speaks English.

It’s really awesome that the Space Stone energy gives the people from the Sky World (who are formerly Mohawk natives from Earth) and Kahhori very, VERY interesting powers.

KAHHORI MOVED THE PORTAL TO THE LAND!! That is an insane amount of power and strength! That’s wonderful!

Kahhori and her people sinking the Spanish Armada is a sight to behold.

Ep7- “…Hela Found the Ten Rings?”

Hela suddenly being able to speak Putonghua was a surprise.

Odin says that the bearer of Hela’s crown be merciful, which explains why Hela is at first unable to lift it. Just like the first Thor movie.

I kind of wonder why Wenwu would invite Hela to wear a traditional dress; but more importantly, why does he have one ready?

MORRIS RETURNS!! Best fuzzy thing.

Hela visits Talo.

Folding paper. That’s basically Origami. IRL history has it that China has its own paper folding traditions long ago, just like Japan, but separately.

Hela being upset that Fenrir as a puppy was taken from her, is something interesting too.

Asgard, a realm of Norse legend, and Ta Lo, a fictitious Chinese fantasy realm, coming together to free the cosmos, is something I did not see coming.

Ep8- “…the Avengers Assembled in 1602?”

Tom Hiddleston as Loki narrating Hamlet? Not surprising.

Wanda summoned Carter from three episodes ago, and turns out Thor knew about this here.

But what are those portals? Wanda warns to stop them.

Wanda speaks of a lost traveler…

Tony says “Forerunner” but the caption says “person”.

Loki speaking of William Shakespeare writing about Iago in the play Othello.

Rogers Hood. Hilarious combo of Steve Rogers and Robin Hood.

Rogers and Carter double-teaming with the shield is really cool.

Where did the Destroyer come from?

Hogan throwing out all manner of old fashioned insults is hilarious 😆

Also, why is Hogan a hulk in this episode? He was one in the Christmas episode but this one?

Turns out the Forerunner is mainMCU!Steve?

The main effect is that Carter is alone again.

Strange Supreme makes an appearance. Which we leave on a “TBC” for next episode. The fact that he went to fetch Kahhori in Ep6 must mean something big is in the finale…

Ep9- “…Strange Supreme Intervened?”

Interesting; we get the full MCU theme for the title card. We never got the full theme in previous episodes.

Peggy speaks with Strange, who keeps dangerous beings inside their own little crystals.

If the Watcher is a metaphor for us, and Strange implying that the Watcher may not always be right, that means that we might not also always be right about certain things.

Peggy enters South Dakota… where Red Skull (HYDRA) exploded the Tesseract. But why would Kahhori be a danger to the Multiverse, considering Strange net with her last episode? Why is she considered a danger in this one?

Also, Kahhori now speaks English. Not odd, per se, but it helps. She says Strange is “a universe killer.” Which, in some way, he is.

Also, a dragon from Ta Lo, which kinda sells the point.

Hela being insulted that Kahhori sent the swords back is hilarious 😆

Peggy gets an Infinity Armor is pretty to cool. Also, Peggy and Kahhori vs Strange? That’s also really cool.

Peggy gets sent back to her home, but it’s an illusion, and she sees right through it.

Though, playing with the lives of so many people to face Strange, that’s a weird effect, perhaps meant to be “comedic” in a way, but comes off as cruel, which might have been the more intended effect.

Also, the characters falling to the portal just basically overpowering Peggy with their weapons? It’s very interesting because it’s not overpowering her for no reason, she NEEDS to be overpowered to stop an already over-powered Strange. She needs to be MORE than him to win.She gets Hela’s crown, a large sword, and multiple other weapons, while Kahhori uses her powers to lift Thor’s hammers and also uses the Ten Rings. Both Peggy and Kahhori MUST be overpowered to overpower Strange and stop him.

Strange becomes a huge devil monster and falls into the Forge.

Peggy goes to the Watcher.

S2E9 ending exactly as Loki S2E6 did, that’s interesting.

#mcu #what if season 2 #what if series #the watcher #captain carter #kahhori #natasha romanoff #happy hogan #hela odinsdottir #my thoughts #nebula #peter quill #iron man #strange supreme #my notes #mcu meta

[tremorsmackenzie]

what if 2x07 was fun. didnt make a whole lot of sense, but there was a lot to love.

odin is an even shittier dad than we already knew, not that thats surprising.

loved helas entire energy throughout most of this episode.

why the hell did she have mjolnir? elaborate???

why did main timeline odin not also take her power when he imprisoned her? that wouldve kinda prevented a lot of problems down the line

love that they baited and then avoided the trope of the strong woman falling for a gentle man once shes vulnerable

now, the ending. love the message, just dont think the episode actually showed hela advancing to that point. probably just because of runtime constraints, but even with what self reflection we were shown, thats a pretty stark 180° turn if you ask me.

also, kind of contradictory messaging at the end with the "ill unmake your empire" vs. "she built an empire" phrasing.

finally, im pretty sure wenwu is a bad guy. why exactly are we acting like thats not the case?

overall, id say 7/10. really really fun, was rooting for hela all the way through (which i didnt expect), just dont think the writing was thought out too well.

#what if #what if season 2 #what if spoilers #what if season 2 spoilers #hela #what if 2x07 #what if meta

[tyrannuspitch]

thinking about what it means for hela to be a so-called goddess of death if you try to synchronise it with asgardians not actually being gods and not actually knowing whether their afterlife, or any, is real. heretic, necromancer, mad scientist, playing with forces she literally can't hope to understand. what actually happens when she supposedly brings someone back from the dead? it certainly doesn't look like it's true resurrection. how close is it? does she even know? how long and hard must she have tried to manage even this much? the title could easily be framed as if it's only about the violence she commits and the lives she takes, but that's not the whole of it. she tries to give life back to her allies, to her loved ones - or rather, her only loved one, fenrir - and she almost succeeds. how much violence did that technique take to learn? how many wolves did she kill so she might try and save her wolf when the time came? do you think it hurts him? is there anything is there to hurt, or is she just clinging to an empty corpse in her grief?

#space viking tag #meta #ch: hela #th: undeath + afterlife #hhhhhh

[jivewise]

i’m going to forever maintain the headcanon that hela is loki’s birth mother (in the mcu)

first off don’t get me wrong, i don’t think odin or frigga or thor would love loki more for being blood related or anything like that. there’s just some great irony in him being related after all

as others have pointed out, hela knew about the loss of odin’s eye even though it happened during the war against the jotuns, meaning she had to have either gotten loose from her prison around then or was imprisoned right after

loki was born at the end of the war

ergo hela was not in prison around when loki was born

ergo squared that hela = loki’s birth mother (aka my headcanon)

“the house of odin is full of traitors” yeah no kidding, starting with my mans odin (and frigga)

lockin up their kiddo hela. i guess banishing her to earth wasn’t an option because she’d just slaughter everyone even as a mortal without her powers

anyway they check in on her once a century and um, doesn’t look like she’s getting any less.. less

they still have her baby tho.. our baby? insert marxist bugs bunny meme

and when loki looks asgardian it’s because he is asgardian, it’s not an illusion or whatever. he’s a shapeshifter, jan

so for the most part odin and frigga can ignore the jotun part of the equation

odin holding off on telling loki about his heritage was because he wiped the realms of hela’s memory, so couldn’t without explaining hela (or lying even more). laufey being the dad’s really just an afterthought

like what would he even say?

“hey kid. you’re adopted. also your dads the king of our mortal enemies. also your moms another of our mortal enemies”

“don’t worry, she’s also my daughter”

“locked her up and erased everyone’s memory of her tho. lol”

“why? what do you mean, why? did you listen to a single word i said?”

frigga’s modus operandi is leaving the family chat on read

loki chooses green as his it color and odin starts sweating

loki weaponizes public transportation and odin knows there’s no going back

meanwhile, thor is taking on hela’s old mantle of asgard’s next big imperialist while odin and frigga aren’t looking

ok and loki being odin and frigga’s adopted grandson who they pretend they’re not biologically related to is just funny

and tragic because of the consequences

ironically this would also mean loki is varying degrees of responsible for killing both of his birth parents

on top of his adopted parents

who are his grandparents

and loki’s ascension to a throne getting subverted is also funny, since, assuming hela’s the ruler of helheim, technically that makes loki a potential heir to 3/9 realms

4/9 if frigga has any claim to vanaheim’s throne.. idk if that’s how norse succession even worked but they’re aliens, jan

also hela/laufey is a totally valid hateship, brought together by their mutual lust for power and resentment of odin all-father, plus the impact of odin and frigga themselves, giving rise to a child that becomes both a balm to and bane of asgard

the peace that odin intended for loki to bring wasn’t between asgard and jotunheim alone. it was between hela and her family

and perhaps the reason why he gave up on those aspirations was because he gave up on being able to reach hela.. being old was taking up too much of his energy anyway

just… clenches fists too tightly for anyone to pry this headcanon from my cold dead hands

#loki #loki meta #meta #hela #odin #frigga #thor #laufey #ragnarok #space vikings #mcu #thor remains totally oblivious to the whole situation until he can’t #he decides to distract himself with several more eat pray love journeys #also #bruncle thor #ugly laughter #dont @ me about the og myths or comics I SEENT IT i know i am strictly talking about the mcu #forever lamenting that we didn’t get a convo between loki and hela in ragnarok #i do love the potential of brodinsibs too though #&

[puckwritesstuff]

Logyn Character Boards

I've been seeing so much creativity on my dash today, I thought I'd try my hand at doing something creative and fun! ^_^ I made some character boards for my versions of Sigyn, Loki, and the kids (Nari, Sylvie, Brandr, Hela). I picked out some quotes I thought fit everybody and some lyrics from my Sigyn playlist, and put them in fonts that approximated what I think their handwriting would look like! (There will be text ID as some of them are more illegible than others) ^_^;

Sigyn

Text ID:

Top Square: Sigyn - "Victory Woman"

Right Square: "I need my golden crown of sorrows / My bloody sword to swing" - Florence + the Machine

Left Square: "Nature's first green is gold / Her hardest hue to hold" - Robert Frost

Bottom Square: Goddess of Victory

Loki

Text ID:

Top Square: Loki - Unknown origin

Right Square: "To the gentlemen, I'm Miss Fortune / To the ladies I'm Sir Prize" - Aurelio Voltaire

Left Square: "I am determined to prove a villain." - William Shakespeare

Bottom Square: God of Mischeif

Nari

Text ID:

Top Square: Nari - Unknown origin

Right Square: "Now learn from your mother / Or else spend your days biting your own neck." - Mumford & Sons

Left Square: "O you who turn the wheel and look to windward, / Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you." - T.S. Eliot

Bottom Square: God of Fetters

Sylvie

Text ID:

Top Square: Sylvie - From Silvia - Mother of Romulus and Remus

Right Square: "Ni le bien qu'on m'a fait / Ni le mal / Tout ça m'est bien égal" - Edith Paif

Left Square: "He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else." - J. Michael Strazynski

Bottom Square: Goddess of Bloodshed

Brandr

Text ID:

Top Square: Brandr - "Fire, torch, sword"

Right Square: "He doesn't look a thing like Jesus / But he talks like a gentleman" - The Killers

Left Square: "There's no such thing as a painless lesson. They just don't exist." - Hiromu Arakawa

Bottom Square: Son of the World Serpent

Hela

Text ID:

Top Square: Hela - "To conceal, to cover"

Right Square: "Pleased to meet you / Hope you guessed my name" - The Rolling Stones

Left Square: "Because I could not stop for death / He kindly stopped for me" - Emily Dickenson

Bottom Square: Goddess of Death

#meta #character board #sigyn #loki #nari #sylvie #vali #brandr #hela lokisdottir #logyn #loki x sigyn #Love Duty and Glorious Purpose fic

[bedlamsbard]

I got into your fics because of Thor and Loki.. and while I love the world (and you basically sold me on Steve/Nat) I am still very curious about the twins. What made you go the prophecy route?

Oh, man, this was almost three years ago -- with rare exception I use the same background and worldbuilding across stories, so while the prophecy is introduced back in Morning, it's also mentioned in the Yonderverse. It's just that Yonder isn't really a story where that kind of thing features, and Morning's all about destiny/fate/timelines, which is part of the reason it's in there. IIRC, the other reason was pushback against some of the meta/fic I'd seen in the Thor fandom back then, since that was still when I was still reading in the fandom. I wanted to take Loki (and Thor) out of operating in a very human realm, where there were very direct parallels to things that could happen to, like...normal people, and put them back into a mythical realm where stuff like the prophecy was taken very seriously. But it's important that it's also an ambiguous prophecy that could as easily have gone the other way, which I don't think has actually been revealed anywhere, because the prophecy has been most directly dealt with in a chapter of Morning that hasn't been posted yet, but has been written since 2021. So I've had this all figured out since then, I just haven't been able to use that chapter yet. (It is a full-chapter altverse flashback, and it has to follow a present-day chapter.)

Hela is actually the first person to mention it in Morning:

She had known for five centuries before her exile that they were coming, her little brothers. Odin’s sons, battle-born, battle-worn. Prophecy could leave many things to chance – the finer details, mostly – but the broad strokes were always certain. Hela had sat in the hall of the vǫlur and known by the end of the chief seeress’s first stanza that it was the end of her. As soon as Odin knew of the new prophecy, he would have no more use for her, not when Asgard’s wyrd said he would have his matched pair of perfect princes. She had slaughtered all of the vǫlur for that, hoping that Odin would never hear of the prophecy, but the vǫlur were like the wyrd they spun out – no one, not even the goddess of death, could truly destroy them. Sooner or later a vǫlva would come to Asgard bearing the Norns’ words, though it had been, Hela assumed, after her exile, since she had no memory of the vǫlur’s return. Even one of the Aesir could not stop fate, merely delay it. Fate, like death, was inevitable.

This introduces my take on the volur and the first hint of the prophecy, that it pretty significantly predates Thor's and Loki's births (by fourteen centuries), and that Hela is the only one that knows the entire thing because she killed the volur who spoke about it. It's also mentioned very briefly in Yonder and at one point Yonder went into more detail and I cut that because it's not thematically important in Yonder the way it is in Morning.

“You didn’t know?” Sif said to the Valkyrie. “It’s a very famous story.” “Yes,” Loki said, “as in ‘story,’ as in ‘fictional,’ as in ‘Odin made it all up.’” He ground his teeth and looked irritated. “What story?” the Valkyrie said pointedly. Sif shot a glance at Thor and Loki, then explained, “About Odin’s sons being born at the beginning and end of the Battle of Jotunheim. There’s supposed to be a prophecy – Odin’s sons, battle-born –”

So it features pretty significantly in an unposted chapter of Morning, here are the two most relevant sections. (Farbauti's a volva but was not at Urdarbrunnr when Hela did her slaughter, and isn't aware that it was Hela who did it.)

The giantess didn’t look at him. “Twenty-four centuries ago the vǫlur were slaughtered at Urðarbrunnr.  I wasn’t there with my sisters that day, but I know what prophecy it was they sang into being.  It did not come to Asgard, I think, for many centuries afterward, nor was the whole of it brought to Valaskjalf for the ears of Odin One-eye.” Frigga hesitated before she shook her head slightly. “What prophecy?” Loki said. “What – the prophecy?” “Odin’s sons, battle-born,” Farbauti quoted softly. “There’s more, but that’s the part you and Odin cared about, isn’t it?  That he might have his matched pair of perfect princes.  Never mind that you might never hear the rest of it, because the vǫlur that still trusted Asgard brought those stanzas to you in time, but those who would never trust Asgard again brought the rest to me.” No single vǫlva ever got the whole of a prophecy, Loki knew.  Individuals got bits and pieces, but it took many vǫlur to piece together the entirety of one.  Since the massacre at Urðarbrunnr he didn’t know if more than a handful had been completed; most of the known prophecies dated from before the slaughter. “They are my sons,” Frigga said, her voice hard. “Yes,” Farbauti said, “but they could have been mine.  Both of them could have been mine, your blood-son and his twin.”

and then a little later, after they argue for a while and some other stuff is discussed.

Farbauti nodded, then crossed back to the brazier with the kettle and poured herself another cup of spiced wine.  As she spooned honey into it, she said, “When the vǫlur see the future, it isn’t set.  We see possible futures – certain things that will happen, because they’re part of the pattern laid out in the great tapestry the Norns make of our wyrd, but there are many ways that those threads can be woven.  And those threads themselves are always being spun.  Yes, our own choices make up our ørlǫg along with our natures, but so do the choices of all those who come before us.  What was possible when the vǫlur speak the great patterns of the Norns into being is not always possible a century later, let alone ten.  The possibilities narrow as the cloth is worked and the thread of our ørlǫg is spun.” She set her hip against the table and drank deep from her cup, then quoted softly, “Odin’s sons, battle-born, battle-worn – that’s the version you know, isn’t it?” Loki nodded shortly.  “Everyone says Thor and I were born at the beginning and end of the Battle of Jotunheim.” “I can’t speak for your brother,” Farbauti said, “though I don’t know that there’s any reason to lie about that –” “There isn’t,” Frigga said. “Thor was born when the Bifrost brought the last of the einherjar to Jotunheim.” Farbauti smiled, thin. “Your other son took his first breath as the first of my people died.” Loki felt the muscle in his jaw jump again, but glanced upwards at his mother anyway.  He tried to make his voice light as he said, “So Thor’s still older than me.” Frigga hesitated for a brief instant, then said, “Sixteen minutes.  I scried it to be certain.”  She leaned down and pressed her lips briefly to the crown of his head, making Farbauti’s brows knit a little – a somewhat disconcerting effect on her Jotun features. Loki let his breath out slowly, suddenly dizzy with relief.  “So we did come into this world together,” he said.  He had been afraid to ask before, to find one more part of his reality crumbling around him; having it back… “Yes,” Farbauti said.  When they both looked up at her, she shrugged. “It’s their wyrd.  Odin’s sons, battle-born, battle-worn,” she quoted, the rhythm of the familiar words a little different than an Asgardian would have used.  What she said next was entirely unfamiliar.  “Or Laufey’s sons, battle-won, bone-born.” Loki heard the sound he had made only after it passed his lips, a soft grunt like he had punched in the gut.  You didn’t have to be a vǫlva to interpret that. His mother’s grip was so tight on his shoulders that he suspected he would find bruises there later. Farbauti made a gesture to toss the matter aside. “It’s done.  What might be is now only what could have been, and ultimately what never was.  That path was closed to all of us at least a century before your birth.  Laufey never worked up the courage to challenge Asgard on its own ground, just proxy wars.”  She smiled a little, idle.  “Or I suppose he might have taken more than Odin’s eye that day, though I doubt it.  Regardless –”  She shrugged.  “It’s done.” “Yes,” Frigga said softly. “It’s done.”

The Asgardians never knew the other version of the prophecy. That is actually a reference to a What If comic called What If Thor Was Raised by Frost Giants, where Laufey does kill Odin and take Thor to raise him himself.

Part of the reason the prophecy is in Morning is to set up the idea that there are things that are going to happen, though they're conceptualized in different ways depending who says it -- obviously the Asgardians and the Jotuns think of fate very differently than (my version of) the TVA, since Mobius gives a long explanation earlier in Morning. But those things are going to happen aren't always going to happen in the same way or in predictable ways, so the prophecy sets up that Loki and Thor were always going to be raised together as twins, but not necessarily in the context that they were. And again, part of that is just to put the Asgardians and company into a non-human and very mythical context, that they accept is governed by other powers.

All of this is also true for the Yonderverse, it just doesn't come up because it's not really relevant there. There are brief mentions of the prophecy, and then Urdarbrunnr and the volur are mentioned a few times (they'd both feature in the Horizon sequel), but it's just not thematically relevant in the same way it is for Morning. But it's still part of my worldbuilding.

#starkaddict #bedlam replies #morning behind the scenes

[miirshroom]

Loki as inspiration for Radagon

I have seen it many times where people are able to interpret Marika as an Odin expy - trickster, hung on a tree and stabbed with a spear, dropped an eye (scarseal) down a well - but less often do I see identified Marika/Radagon's thematic ties to other Norse gods and especially Loki.

From review of the literature Radagon alone is something of an amalgamation of many myths and stories: Loki, Illmarinen/Kullervo, Orion, Gollum/Smeagol, the Rebis and/or a literal interpretation of man and woman becoming "one flesh" as described in Genesis in Christian bibles (and a handful of others). All under the combined names of gods Ra and Dagon. It may even be appropriate to think of him as a mimic on a meta level, given all of these inspirations pulled together.

And of all of those inspiration one stands out as especially synergistic with a mimic character - Loki the Trickster and shapeshifter. Maybe it's a pop culture recency bias of people getting hung up on the hair colour, since the Marvel black hair version of Loki is its own thing while most scholarship on the matter has Loki as either red-haired or (more likely) blonde. But specifically the version of Loki that appears in Wagner's Ring Cycle in the mid-1800's is red haired because Loki is conflated with the fire giant 'Logi' for that production. And on the other hand it also makes some sense to associate Radagon with the explicitly red-haired Thor who wields a hammer (more on that later).

Anyways, the main point is the characteristics of Loki that apply directly and indirectly around Radagon:

Half giant heritage. Radagon hates his hair the colour of fire giants - this one is clear.

Shapeshifter who has had children in male and female form. Radagon has fathered children and Marika has been mother to children.

Had three children with a giantess: Hela the queen of the underworld who is half dead and half alive (Ranni), Jormungandr the World Serpent (Rykard), and Fenris Wolf who has the most convoluted mythology of the 3 but is most known for having a voracious appetite (Radahn eats corpses and howls at the sky)

Loki wagered his head in a bet with a craftsman who forged 3 treasures: a ring for Odin that generates 8 copies of itself every 9 days, a golden boar for Freyr, and Thor's hammer Mjolnir. Again, two of the treasures have direct parallels in the Elden Ring and Marika's Hammer. The third is less obvious but there are indeed boars in the Lands Between, and Radahn's general boar theme. And a man riding boar in the Shadow of the Erdtree trailer. When he lost the bet the craftsman had planned to behead him, but Loki pointed out that he had not wagered his neck, so instead the craftsman sewed his mouth shut. My main point is that the Preceptor's Mask associated with Radagon's journey to Liurnia has the mouth "sewn shut", and Glintstone crowns in general have associations with beheading.

Was imprisoned for his role in tricking Hodr - the blind Norse god of darkness - into killing Baldr - Norse god of light. Parallel to the death of Godwyn. This has led as least some people to match up Ranni to Loki, which itself is not incorrect because this is an original story and not a 1:1 recreation of myth. But to the theory that Marika/Radagon orchestrated the Night of Black Knives, this is a point in favour.

Is sometimes credited with inventing the fishing net (same pattern as Radagon's rune). This also connects to an incident just before Loki was caught where he takes the form of a salmon and the gods use his own net to help catch him (Radagon's rune blocking entry to the Erdtree).

Obtained from craftsmen a wig of golden hair for Sif - wife of Thor - to replace the hair he cut off for a trick by shaving her bald. This one is not explicitly invoked - aside from the tendency for demigods to be shorn of their hair and have it included in their helms. It is more an exercise of extrapolation after identifying a pattern with other Loki stories. Imagine Radagon divesting himself of his red hair and replacing it with golden hair as part of becoming Marika as a preferred identity. Sif also was known to wear a veil in the time before receiving new hair - and Marika wears a veil in her church statues. The statue of a bald monk appears to be symbolic of the beginning of Marika's Age of the Erdtree.

Altogether, the point is that there are many ways to understand what it means that Radagon and Marika are the same person. Mythology is one of those ways - so often in myths identities are fluid because they represent a set of stories that drifted in retellings and were later brought back and merged into a single entity by selectively choosing the new canon. The two aspects of a single god are interpreted as two different gods due to language barriers, wander apart for a bit as the stories diverge when told by different storytellers, and merge back together or get subsumed into the identity of another god entirely.

#Elden ring #Elden ring lore #Literary analysis #I guess my choice to write an essay about Loki in highschool is paying dividends #I want to mention how the Raptor's Feathers cloak may point to the story of Loki borrowing Freya's cloak of falcon feathers #But I think that is better addressed in discussing other noted Trickster characters Patches and Domhnall of Zena

[galaxythreads]

Thor trilogy 🤝 gotg 3: fantastic end to two good trilogies

(Yeah i said it shh)

i mean. *deep sigh* okay. So yes. But no. Gotg 3 was much different than Thor 3. To be clear, my feelings toward Ragnarok have shifted from loathing to at best, apathy, over the last several years, so I'm very very neutral when it comes to Ragnarok. I know that there are good parts. I have adopted Hela has my chaos child.

But there IS a massive difference between what gotg3 did vs what Ragnarok did. Gotg3 was willing to meet the characters where they were and do what was best for the character, rather than the story and Ragnarok wouldn't do that.

long post:

Like Gamora. Yes, it would have been better for the story if she and Peter ended up together, but it was better for the character that she go back to the Ravagers. Yes it was good for the story that Rocket kill the villain whose name has slipped my mind, but it was better for Rocket to let him live. To give mercy when he wasn't ever allowed any. And yes, the two can coincide and meet in the middle and it's good. IT was good for Drax's character and the story that Drax slip into a more fatherly role. But the director of gotg3 clearly loved the characters. The story was a backdrop to the emotional journey the characters were on. And the director knew that. And he respected that. And he focused the story around their characters. There was no end all be all plot, it was focused on Rocket and what Rocket means to the guardians.

Ragnarok didn't do that, and that's where I think a lot of fans do feel a pull. Ragnarok is an amazing story. It has brilliant pacing, the narrative structure is amazing, the set up, the pay offs--everything. Ragnarok is one of the best put together movies I've seen in a lot time, save one thing:

It is not a good emotional journey. It doesn't serve the characters, it only serves the plot. What has Thor learned or gained between Thor 1 and Thor 3 that he didn't have at the beginning of Thor 1? The main problem for Thor in the first film was his arrogance and impulsiveness kept getting him into trouble. The disregard of his brother was what sent the film going. Odin's lack of love to Thor, his lack of love to Loki--Frigga's failings to reach out to both of them...Thor 1 is a story about a broken family.

Gotg1 is a story about a family coming together.

Gotg2 is a story about what it means to stick together through the hard stuff

gotg3 is realizing that your family will always be there for you to return to, and that no matter what, they have you.

Gotg is a story about family, and that's what the Thor films desperately wanted to be, but kept falling short at.

Thor truly, and I mean this with the most sincerity, did not grow in Ragnarok. What fault did he overcome? What new chapter to his story did we unveil that made us think about Thor in a new way? With gotg3, we learned about how much Rocket means to everyone, but we learned more about Rocket. His past, what makes him tic, why Rocket is Rocket.

We didn't learn anything about Thor. It was like they had already presented the whole character to us, and rather than make him stretch and grow...Thor turned and ran from any sort of arc in Ragnarok. So did Loki.

Like I said, the story of Ragnarok is really well put together. But it doesn't serve the characters. And the thing is, Ragnarok could have been tweaked just a little bit and it would have given just as satisfying of an ending as gotg3:

Keep Hela. Keep Ragnarok. Keep the destruction of Mjolnir.

But change the stakes. Loki and Thor are fighting for each other, not Asgard, not Sakaar, not some arbitrary Thing with stupid betrayals that didn't make sense. Because to me, my own personal opinion, the huge thing that Ragnarok circled around but never actually fixed was this:

In Thor 1, Thor needed to choose Asgard. (And Loki) Prioritize his kingdom and throw out his arrogance to put them first. He didn't. His selfishness is what puts Asgard is danger. And Thor's selfishness/arrogance is ultimately what blinded him to Loki's pain and led to the massive fall out later. In Thor 2, Thor did the exact same thing but this time it was under the guise of "wanting to be a good person." which is. my frustrations with that are for another time.

In Thor 1, Loki needed Asgard to choose him. (and he needed to choose Thor) He needed to know he was accepted even though he's Jotun. He needed that reassurance that he still means something. And Loki needed to choose Thor anyway. And he did. In the Dark World, Loki helped Thor with Jane, and he let Thor go because he knew the throne would make Thor unhappy. They needed to talk and they didn't. Loki is midway through his arc.

So is Thor. An acknowledgment of why Thor doesn't want the throne in TDW was actually reallly really good. It helped develop Thor as a person. He was deeply traumatized from the events of Thor 1, and the throne to him is equal to becoming his dad. And Thor needed to realize that he can be a good man and be a good king and they never got to that.

We never completed that arc. Thor has the second coronation where he's not trying to goad the crowd in the Statesmen, but we didn't earn that. We didn't earn any of that. Not Thor and Loki's "repaired" relationship, not the coronation, not Thor's development, nothing.

In gotg3, we earned their relationship with Rocket. We watched it develop, and we watched him prioritize them, and we earned that scene at the end of the movie where Rocket doesn't kill the High Evolutionary because Rocket has changed. gotg1 Rocket would have slit the High Revolutionary's throat and walked away happily. Rocket gotg3 didn't.

So I honestly think that stakes should have changed in Ragnarok. Hela takes Loki captive because he's king and has information and/or powers she needs and she banishes Thor to Sakaar. Thor is given the opportunity to stay in Sakaar and live out his life peacefully as the "good man" he always wanted to be. Thor doesn't want to be king. It's been this looming thing that's felt like promised corruption since his failed coronation. Thor meets with Val, and then Bruce, and Thor, in a series of drunken conversations, realizes some stuff about Odin and why he doesn't want the throne, and then gets off his butt because Val and Bruce have helped him realize that he needs to put Asgard first. That he can be a good person and a good man. Maybe Thor thinks Loki made a deal with Hela, or maybe Loki actually did make a deal with Hela, idk. Point is, Thor thinks Loki is fine.

On Asgard, Loki is not fine. Hela is making a mess of everything and killing people, and Loki puts his neck on the line to keep people safe. He uses his manipulation skills to con her, works with Heimdall, and is working on a plan to rescue Thor because he doesn't know where Thor is and if Thor is safe. Heimdall and Loki discuss this at length and Heimdall says that he knew Loki was Jotun and that it's okay. Loki's heritage is revealed to Asgard not through a play, but some other means and Asgard still chooses to trust him anyway. That would go a millions years into helping Loki feel better about everything.

Thor comes back to Asgard with the rescue ship and the knowledge about Ragnarok, and Loki almost dies to keep Thor alive. Both of them realize that they've grown up since the first film. Loki put Thor first. Thor is putting Asgard first. Ultimately, having accepted themselves for who they are, the kid who does not want to be their father, and the kid who does not want to be a monster, Loki and Thor can now accept each other.

Because Loki and Thor already love each other. We know that. We've seen it. We know that their relationship can be repaired and fixed and that they'd let the universe burn to keep the other safe. What we don't know is if they can meet the other since they've changed and grown and Thor 3 had the opportunity to do that.

Thor 1 broke their relationship

Thor 2 started to mend it

Thor 3 should have healed it

I don't know if they should kill Hela. Thor and Hela are mirror characters of each other, and I think Thor showing her mercy would be a better character growth than him immediately trying to kill her. If Thor can help Hela change, then he knows he can change to. There shouldn't have been this big fight on the bifrost again. Ultimately, it should have been something more verbal. maybe they fight in the throne room but with words. Communication isn't their family's forte, okay, great, then fix that! LET THEM COMMUNICATE. SCREAM AT EACH OTHER.

Thor, Hela, and Loki will never be able to grow until they accept the damage that Odin did to them. So the final fight should have been about that. With the shadow of Odin hanging over all three of them, they should have turned their backs on Odin's legacy by choosing each other over some stupid seat of power that Odin has been making them fight for since conception.

Hela, at her core, wants connection. She's doing that with everyone (I thought you'd be glad to see me, tell me about yourself? *rambles about Odin's past* I was his executioner, I executed his vision) Give her that with Thor and Loki when they talk about Odin.

Loki, at his core, wants to be accepted for who he is. Give him that with a public acceptance of his Jotun heritage. Where silver tongue is able to save them. His magic. Let Loki use his powers for good and remind him that at his core, he's still a good person.

Thor, at his core, wants to be worthy of love. SHOW HIM that he doesn't have to EARN it. That it's already there. Let Val and Bruce take care of him. Let Loki choose him over and over again. Destroy Mjolnir, and then show Thor that he is worthy anyway. Let him throw off the legacy of his abusive father armed with the knowledge that he is worthy of his family's love anyway.

Idk, I'm rambling, but the point is: gotg3 honored the character's journey and the path they needed to take, even if we the audience didn't always like that path. Ragnarok stomped all over the path the character's needed to take in favor of being funny or convenient and it really messed with some narratives.

Generally, I like Ragnarok. I enjoy the movie when I don't think about it connected to the rest of the Thor franchise. But it didn't meet the emotional beats it should have because it was so focused on telling a good story, it missed the story it needed to tell.

#ragnarok meta #anti ragnarok #gotg3 #gotg3 spoilers #loki meta #thor meta #thor and loki #ragnarok #hela #answered #long post #hela meta

[musclesandhammering]

A Concept: Loki gets in a situation where his magic is bound or he’s facing someone with stronger magic than him or something and everyone expects him to just be screwed, but instead he simply starts drawing runes and reciting spells and proceeds to wreck their shit.

“I’m not the most powerful sorcerer in Asgard because my magic is the strongest, I’m the most powerful sorcerer in Asgard because I know how to use magic the best.”

#like let’s be clear his magic as it stands absolutely is the strongest in Asgard #but I’m talking about if he were going up against someone like maybe Hela etc #I just love the idea of loki not only relying on the sheer power of his magic but also #having more expansive and in depth knowledge of how to use magic in general than literally anyone else #like someone thinks they’ve got him helpless if they completely cut off his access to his magic #but you thought wrong bitch here come some incantations #what I’m saying is he is made of both natural talent and honed skill #even if he had no magic of his own at all #he’d still figure out how to draw on the magic in the world around him #like a lot of sorcerers do (strange for example) #and kick some serious ass #you do not have the upper hand just cause you made some cute little magic blocking shackles is what I’m saying #loki #loki meta #ish #magic #asgardian magic #mcu magic

[lucianalight]

I LOVED WHAT IF 2x07! 10/10 recommend it!

#what if s2 #wi 2x07 #hela my beloved #i wanted so much to love her in tr #but she was written as a cartoonish villain there and anything good about her character was because Cate Blanchett's an amazing actor #also because some people couldn't see what a terrible person and father odin is and made him to be thor's spiritual guide smh #i liked it so much i might write a meta about it #happy that finally it was acknowledged what a terrible father odin was #mad that the narrative never validated loki's rightful anger about it #hela #odin #odin's a+ parenting

[thot-son-of-odin]

I like your Thor meta. Do you think Thor was abusive to Loki in Ragnarok?

Thank you so much anon! So I wanna preface this by saying I did really like ragnarok. I did think parts of it seemed ooc and didn’t feel the same as the two og Thor movies, but it made me laugh and that’s all I can really ask from a marvel movie tbh.

So to answer your question, tentatively no. I don’t think Thor was abusive to Loki in ragnarok and while parts of their relationship/the way they act with each other was exaggerated/flanderized, I don’t think that he was abusive. My reasoning is under the cut because this got longer than I thought LOL

The first thing I see that around ragnarok that frames Thor as abusive is the heightened use of violence towards each other (eg thor throws things at Loki, aims mjolnir at him). While this dynamic isn’t present in the previous movies, it’s also matched via Loki’s actions (eg stabbing Thor in the snake incident, not helping Thor when he’s forced to fight in the arena). Additionally, it doesn’t seem like these thing actually affect/hurt Loki in any way. In avengers 1, Loki literally dropped Thor off the helicarrier (idk if the name is right, I haven’t seen the movie in so long) and stabs Thor, and it’s not like these things severely injure Thor in any way. If we frame Thor’s actions as abuse, we must also frame Loki’s actions as abuse as well. (To all of you that are like “Loki was under mind control”, 1) intention does not change the action, he still gets hurt and 2) even after he’s released from the mind control, he never bothers to apologize)

Secondly, I see people talk about that scene in the tunnel where Loki attempts to reach out to Thor and he doesn’t bother to engage, and personally, I see that as very reasonable. Thor asks if Loki is actually there, sees that he isn’t, and that shapes the entire interaction from there on. In Thor’s pov, Loki hasn’t even bothered to visit him in person. Additionally, it hasn’t even been a day since their father died, which Thor directly thinks Loki is responsible for (rightfully so, since Loki has exiled Odin for years, perhaps making any condition he has worse and unmonitored). Thor does not believe that Loki is reaching out for real. Loki isn’t even reaching out to help him get back to Asgard and stop Hela. Whether or not Loki is genuine in his attempts to connect with Thor, Thor doesn’t believe him, and he has no reason to either.

Besides this, Thor explicitly brings what he’s mad about.

“What would you like me to say? You faked your own death, you stole the throne, stripped Odin of his power, stranded him on Earth… to die, releasing the Goddess of Death.”

Whether or not Loki is responsible for all that, Thor is allowed to be angry. And he’s allowed to act like that. And when he does, Loki gets angry in return and tells him that he hopes he gets hurt in the fight tomorrow. Both of their words here are childish. But only Thor is called abusive? For having a human response to a very complicated situation involving lots of feelings?

When Thor does try and talk to Loki, he does not actually communicate either. He explicitly distances himself by telling Thor that it’s better if he stays on Sakaar. Which brings us to the elevator scene and what comes next:

This is the part that I see the most meta about how Thor is abusive and is manipulative. And honestly, I think while he might be hoping that the reverse psychology works, I don’t think he explicitly tries to manipulate Loki into doing anything.

To me, I think at this point, Thor sees that Loki is trying to bait him into an argument and does not want to indulge that. Loki is the one who tells Thor that Odin’s death will bring them apart. Loki is the one who says he wants to stay on Sakaar. Thor can see that Loki wants Thor to beg him to come back/help him. And he doesn’t want to fall into that same pattern. Thor is right, it is unhealthy, and it’s not one that suits either one of them. Loki is trying to remove himself from the relationship and Thor lets him. It’s not abusive or manipulative, I see it as a genuine moment where Thor tells Loki that he loves him (aka the thought the world of you comment) but he’s not willing to engage in the same dynamic anymore.

And finally, there’s that obedience disk thing. Which, honestly, seeing as Loki was about to betray Thor and sell him out, is not the worst thing Thor could have done. I don’t think that it affects Loki that much, because he does show up looking fine in the end. I’m not saying it’s not a dick move of Thor to electrocute his brother. I’m saying, in context, Thor could have easily killed him to stop him from betraying him. And he doesn’t.

(Also l see the get help scene called abusive because apparently Thor not listening to Loki about whether he wants to do it is abusive? 1) it’s a comedy scene and 2) he does say “do you have a better idea”)

Idk I think that Loki and Thor have a complex dynamic that wasn’t translated great in ragnarok. But I don’t think it was abusive. I think that, yes Thor does act childishly in certain scenes and if he was thinking rationally, he could/should have realized that it wasn’t Loki’s fault that hela was unleashed. But this is not the first time an odinsib has blamed the other instead of their parents (aka Loki blaming Thor about the whole jotun thing instead which is its own discussion).

Again, obv u can have your own ideas and if theres something I missed that you want me to discuss def lmk!

#thor #loki #thor and loki #thor meta

[pqrachel]

So I was gonna wait until the new year to choose my game of the year, but not only did the steam review come out, but I realized that last year I chose a game that I got for Christmas 2021 so even if I somehow get a really cool game experience before the end of the year, I can just put that for my 2024 GOTY if its good.

But in that vein, I've added Monster Roadtrip & Neon White to games I'm considering for this year's GOTY. So my nominees are Monster Roadtrip, Neon White, Lil Gator Game, Celeste Strawberry Jam Mod Pack, Goodbye Volcano High, Our Life DLCs, and Marvel Snap.

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So Monster Roadtrip, which I've been playing a lot throughout the year. Unlike most of the other games on the list it's really easy to come back to after not playing for a while. The End of the Road update which came out this year was phenomenal and that's the main reason I'm considering it for GOTY. But I really enjoy the Monster Prom series as a whole and it's just so fun and amazing.

Neon White, I got last year during the Steam Winter sale and I spent an amazing few months playing it and getting good at it and enjoying the crap out of the optimization and speedrunning. It makes it so easy to play and so easy to want to keep improving. It soundtrack is amazing and the community is great too. But it's just super hard to get back into. I tried it again this week and despite getting a couple of level records beaten so many of the levels just weren't fun to try and jump right back into at the level I was playing them when I quit. IDK it's definitely amazing but it's not obvious that it should or shouldn't be my GOTY.

Lil Gator Game is like super amazing and nearly perfect for what it is but its just so small, which isn't in itself a problem. But a bigger amazing game is gonna be better. I never went back to try and play it casually again and I think I got all I wanted out of speedrunning it. Like my only problem with it is that I wished it was a bit longer.

Celeste Strawberry Jam is a mod pack created not by the devs of Celeste but by the wonderful modding community of the game. It has levels that range in difficulty of super beginner friendly to fucking impossible, like jeez dude that's crazy. I played through so many levels and it was super enjoyable. It was enough for me to play and consistently enjoy myself for months.

My next nominee is Goodbye Volcano High. I've only played it through once but it was amazing. It's a game about music, found family, and the apocalypse. I got so engrossed in this game after I played it, and I just love it so much. It excelled at being a visual novel but it wasn't very game-y, the rhythm game elements weren't great, and the other game elements struggled too. It was buggy at the time I played it but it didn't detract too much from the story and meaning behind the game. It was just beautiful when it came together.

The Our Life DLCs really surprised me. I went it just expecting them to be worse than the Cove storyline because how could they live up to the amazing story that was the original Our Life Cove story. But they were amazing. I talked about them a lot as I played them but ultimately I just really love the stories GBPatch has put out and that's the reason Our Life 2 is my most anticipated game, even over Silksong and Hades 2. Again it's a visual novel so it's hard to put it as GOTY but I just have to at least consider it because of how good it was.

And my last nominee is Marvel Snap. It technically released last year but the PC launch was in August and I've been playing it so much since then, like it's already my second most played game on steam. It's a microtransaction heavy, season pass-having, daily quest bullshit monetization system game, but it's technically free-to-play. After a while I stopped paying money for stuff and started playing it free and I'm still really enjoying it. Getting the last key cards for some of the meta decks has been super fun. I've been playing Loki and Hela and Destroy and Zoo, and it's just great. The new weekly cache system is rewarding as well and I've nearly got a complete card list because of it. Just a fun time sink.

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And my Game of the Year is Neon White, but like it's close. This was a cool year for gaming and even if I didn't play any of the mainstream choices for game of the year, it was still a super enjoyable year for gaming overall.

#justsometext #game of the year #monster roadtrip #neon white #lil gator game #celeste #strawberry jam #goodbye volcano high #our life: beginnings & always #marvel snap

[tyrannuspitch]

also not to be melodramatic but like. hela's closest companion was fenrir. thor's closest companion was loki. odin gave both his heirs pet monsters. the children of odin and their dogs

#space viking tag #source: trust me bro #im not justifying this at 2am just read the last two years of my blog okay 🙄 servant prince REAL #meta #ch: loki #ch: thor #ch: odin #ch: hela #r: loki + thor #th: servant prince #th: monsterhood #s: t1 #s: t3