#he means quenya rather than sindarin

[anghraine]

I'm just thinking about Tindómiel's and Arwen's names again.

As I've mentioned before, Tindómiel's name seems a clear reference to tindómë, the Quenya word for the twilight of the morning or dawn, by contrast to undómë, the evening twilight referenced in Arwen's name Undómiel or Evenstar. The distinction between tindómë and undómë comes from LOTR itself, so it's not the relic of an early draft or a late retcon or anything.

If Undómiel = evening star (as it clearly does), it would seem to follow that the counterpart name Tindómiel would translate as 'morning star.'

People sometimes suggest that the meaning of Tindómiel mirrors Tinúviel rather than Undómiel. I don't think that works as well given the information in LOTR, though, because while Quenya tindómë and Sindarin tinnú are related etymologically, tinnú refers to evening twilight/early night, like undómë (in Sindarin, morning twilight is minuial). Hence the poetic translation of Tinúviel as 'nightingale.' So if either Undómiel or Tindómiel were going to be equivalent in meaning to Tinúviel, it should be Undómiel. That would even fit well enough with the frequent comparisons of Arwen to Lúthien.

But Undómiel is not translated that way in LOTR. It is translated as 'evening star.' Given the identical structures of the cousins' names and the nuances of Elvish terms for twilight in both languages, it seems more likely to me that post-LOTR, Tindómiel is meant to be a counterpart name to Undómiel, and that in-story, Arwen was named for Elrond's niece.

Tangentially, I think Tindómiel herself was likely named for her grandfather Eärendil, the morning star. But on the meta level, the subtext of her name's structure and meaning is to mirror Arwen. Tindómiel is born as the first of the mortal princesses and queens of the Númenóreans, where the death of Arwen, queen of the last Númenóreans, closes out the era of the Elves.

At the same time, while the evening and morning stars symbolically represent the inverse of each other, the reality is that the evening star is the morning star. Eärendil was hailed on Valinor as the "star in the darkness, jewel of the sunset, radiant in the morning." So both granddaughters' names call back to him and to each other, which I find very touching, actually.

I find it all the more so, though, because while we don't have any dates for Tindómiel's life, we know that she must have been born some time after the year 61 of the Second Age, since she is the second child and that's when her older brother was born. If her lifespan is similar to her brother's, she would live around 410 years—perhaps a little more, as Númenórean women were typically longer-lived, but I can't think by too much at that point in time, given the 500-year lifespan of their father. Tindómiel was likely dead by the year 500 of the Second Age.

The Second Age would last until the year 3441, another 2,941 years. Over a hundred more years passed before Elrond and Celebrían's marriage, and over a hundred more until Arwen's birth in the year 241 of the Third Age. By the time she was named, Tindómiel had been dead for over three thousand years. Elrond had seen the final wars against Morgoth, the rise and terrible fall of Númenor, the provisional defeat of Sauron, and innumerable nephews and nieces. Tolkien can't even fit the early house of Elros onto one genealogical chart and by Arwen's birth, there are numerous offshoots of Elendil's line alone. Elrond has seen a lot of people come and go, many of them related to him.

And yet, when it came time to name his only daughter, he thought of Tindómiel.

#elrond was one hundred percent tindómiel's cool uncle #and losing elros then vardamir then tindómiel in what for him would seem rapid succession must have been ... whew. :( #but he never forgot tindómiel in particular #and that's the number one reason for arwen also being undómiel #according to my personal headcanon lol. but i will die before giving it up #anghraine babbles #long post #tindómiel #arwen undómiel #elrond #eärendil #legendarium blogging #legendarium fanwank

[thelordofgifs]

Thinking about that line in the Shibboleth of Fëanor that even his sons might not have all adhered to the old-fashioned thorn pronunciation after his death - which immediately raises the question, so which ones did?? Random headcanons only vaguely supported by anything in the text below.

(Disclaimer that this all obviously became somewhat moot when Thingol’s Quenya ban came into play. Using crispy Amrod canon here.)

Maedhros: there are pages I could write on Maedhros’ complicated relationship with his father and his father’s legacy, it absolutely fascinates me. Initially Maedhros is the son of Fëanor who most openly defies his father - he stands aside at Losgar, he goes to parley with Morgoth literally as soon as Fëanor is dead, and, most notably, he gives the crown to Fingolfin. These are not the actions of a dutiful eldest son devoted to his father’s memory, which makes me fairly confident in saying that Maedhros definitely dropped the thorn post-Thangorodrim. It’s a fairly minor gesture of reconciliation compared to dispossessing his entire house, and I really don’t think Maedhros has many fucks left to give about linguistics after decades hanging from a cliff.

How did this change, say, post-Nirnaeth when there were effectively no descendants of Indis left to make nice with? I don’t know, but I rather like playing with the headcanon that Maedhros started using the thorn again in the last century or so of his life, especially when his mental state was particularly bleak.

Maglor: I don’t think Maglor’s feelings about his father were much less complicated than Maedhros’. He’s specifically noted as hanging out with Finrod and being trusted by Maedhros not to cause a scene at the Mereth Aderthad, suggesting that he very much follows Maedhros’ lead in reconciliation with the other side of the family. On the other hand, Maglor has always been rather fascinated by his dead grandmother, and he maintains that people’s names should be pronounced the way they want them to be pronounced. Also, several of his older works contain puns that absolutely hinge on the th/s distinction. He doesn’t drop the thorn.

Celegorm: actually never used the thorn consistently in the first place, a constant source of annoyance for his father. Celegorm values fast and efficient communication over linguistic precision - if foxes don’t have a word for what he wants to express, he’ll borrow one from Dog. Meaning over pedantry. Prescriptivism is stupid. He’s one of the fastest of the sons to pick up Sindarin, and displays zero interest in actually studying it. Post-reconciliation of the Noldor, he uses the thorn when the distinction is necessary for clarity, and doesn’t otherwise. Everyone is used to this.

Caranthir: I could go either way here, not having many headcanons about Caranthir’s relationship with his father. Since he’s not particularly on board with Maedhros’ efforts at diplomacy, let’s say he keeps the thorn, purely because nobody can tell him what to do.

Curufin: absolutely does not drop the thorn, that was his father’s hill to die on which means it’s his too. Is constantly furious with his brothers whenever they mispronounce something, this is personal, how can they just betray everything Fëanor stood for like that?? Will fully march Tyelpë out of the room if non-Fëanorian Quenya is being spoken there, his child’s ears are Pure and will not be Sullied with Improper Language. The Fëanorions are generally annoyed by Thingol’s Ban, but at least it gives Curufin a new target for all his linguistic aggression.

Amras: has never forgiven his father for Losgar and never will. Drops the thorn out of pure spite. 

#silmarillion #meta #my meta #shibboleth of feanor #maedhros #maglor #celegorm #caranthir #curufin #amras #the line of miriel #is going to be my feanorian feels tag

[wolfsbane-and-nettles]

Bilbo Sessile Baggins, son of Bungo, son of Mungo....

...or, Blessed Child of Yavanna, Babble Baggins, Petraea, Prince of the Shire, and Lorembaron...

Promo art, if you will, for my latest fic that will be published soon on AO3.

{Chosen Horizons }

Summary:

In the rolling hills of the Shire, where the simple life is cherished and magic is a rarity, one hobbit was blessed by the Valar themselves, Bilbo Baggins. Unfortunately for Bilbo, his abilities brought him nothing but trouble and strife, and so he strived to live a quiet and unremarkable life and fit in with the rest of polite hobbit society. Alas, fate had other plans for him, and when the call to adventure came in the form of a band of dwarves seeking his aid on a quest to reclaim their homeland, Bilbo could no longer ignore the Valar's will. His journey would be perilous and his path uncertain, but with steadfast companions by his side and a love that burned brighter than any forge, Bilbo would rise to his destiny and become a hero of legend.

Chosen Horizons is a Bilbo/Thorin fanfic about a certain reluctant hobbit and determined dwarf who are both too stubborn for their own good.

***

This fic has a fully completed rough draft of 480+ pages, and the first few chapters are currently being beta'd before publishing. I am incredibly proud of this fic and I cannot wait to share it with everyone! It is incredibly lore heavy and I have done SO much research and am excited to geek out about it with ya'll.

Nerdy bits in the pic:

Fortinbras I Took's wife is never named...so I decided to give her one. She is named Lunabia Underhill. Lunabia has multiple meanings/symbolisms...my favorite being "am I forgotten?" (and Underhill because it is a rather common family name in The Shire and Bree, and I felt that Bilbo would probably use a family name when he's using a fake name).

Lorembaron: Lore (dreams/visions) + Umbar (fate/doom)+ On , more or less meaning "Dreamer of Fate" or "He Who Dreams of Fate" in Quenya.

This fic will have a good bit of Elvish (Sindarin and Quenya) and Neo-Khuzdul in it...but I am no Middle-Earth Linguist, so please take my translations loosely.

I'm super excited to get this published and share it and I hope, when I do, you all enjoy it!

((And yes, I just really wanted to have a hobbitish photoshoot for my picture of Bilbo...))

#Bilbo Baggins #Bilbo #The Hobbit #Hobbit #Bagginshield #thorin oakenshield #Thilbo #fanfiction #bagginshield fanfic #hobbit fanfic #hobbit fanart #bilbo fanart #art #fanart #I spent way too long with this little photoshoot #it was worth it #thorin x bilbo #bilbo/thorin #bilbo x thorin #thorin/bilbo

[outofangband]

@camille-lachenille sent this ask about Maedhros post Angband and I wanted to address it in two parts!

This first one deals with the possibility of brain damage post Angband

cw: aftermath of torture, discussion of brain damage, brief mentions of ableism (both in universe and out)

Angband World Building and Aftermath of Captivity Masterlist

I hc Maedhros really struggling with speech and communication in the years following his rescue, and he has to basically relearn how to speak properly. Even centuries later, it still takes him a lot of energy to make complex and long sentences, or understand a long speech, and that’s why he’s so often silent or just barks orders to his troops without much ceremony. And he tends to muddle the words when he’s tired or very emotional, or forget altogether how to speak Sindarin/Taliska/Khuzdul, and he can only speak Quenya, so his land is the only beside Gondolin where Quenya is still spoken on a semi-regular basis despite the ban. Before important events he will prepare what to say as to reduce the chances of getting stuck on his words. He also has "cheat cards" in his pocket with prewritten sentences in Sindarin for emergencies.

He also has to relearn how to read and his writing is awful because he has nerve damage so he struggles with fine mobility tasks. For official papers, he has Maglor write for him so it’s readable.

He gets better until the Nirnareth but the trauma of losing both the battle and his dearest friend makes him regress in his speech abilities.

First I should say I really like your headcanons! I think way way too much about the profound effect of Angband on the body, mind and soul, both generally and for certain characters in particular, Maedhros being one of them!

And Angband does have a profound effect. 

with regards to brain damage, first I should note that while I have some brain damage myself though obviously from considerably less severe circumstances than Maedhros’s and while I have done my research, I am by no means an expert

Though there is no canon evidence for Maedhros suffering brain damage there is absolutely a veritable wealth of circumstances that could have caused it at least for a human during his time in Angband; hypoxia/lack of oxygen to the brain, malnutrition and poisoning, actual physical damage from directed violence, etc

As I’ve talked about in many places (I think here is one of the more recent ones) we must assume at least some intervention and difference to human anatomy for Maedhros whether that comes from differing elven physiology or intervention by Morgoth to keep him alive or as I believe, likely both. 

That being said the conditions of Angband are devastating and effect the bodies, minds and souls of elves (and humans) in ways that rarely occur on the outside

One thing that’s fun about The Silmarillion is that it a, takes place over a long period of time and b, there’s a lot of ambiguity in the text in places. Maedhros does conceivably have longer to recover physically and emotionally 

Though the few bits of dialogue we have for Maedhros during the time between his rescue and the Nirnaeth do not seem to show him struggling with speech It is notable too that while he seems to have much skill as a diplomat, a lot of his recorded communication takes places through letters he could have spent much, much longer drafting, revising and consulting on rather than in face to face discussions where significant difficulties in communicating would have been harder to deal with. 

I like the idea of him having cards to consult with! I think that makes a lot of sense!

I do think Maedhros had specific issues with speech and communication. Some I think were due to physical damage and some I think were due to psychological. I know I’ve said almost exactly this probably more than once but I really cannot understate how profoundly damaging it is to be in an environment where your ability to speak, advocate, communicate and express yourself is just completely oppressed and stolen. I do headcanon that Angband severely limits and in some places/circumstances outright bans many elven languages (It can’t completely because some communication between especially newer prisoners learning the tongues of Angband is necessary during labor and such but that’s other posts...) Anyways Maedhros was in an environment where he was actively punished for speaking up, for using his own languages, for daring to act in any way that suggested that his words have meaning. 

This does not lift just because he is outside of its walls. 

That’s also absolutely not to say that brain damage couldn’t be a confounding factor as well. The combination of physical and psychological factors complicate his recovery in many ways especially in the beginning where these sorts of injuries were almost unheard of among the returned Noldor

(I should also note that even if it’s not fully supported by canon, it’s still a good and interesting headcanon/perspective and I share much of it!! unfortunately while Tolkien did seem to have a compassionate understanding of many aspects of trauma, the depiction in The Wanderings has always struck me as especially profound, due to when he was writing and such, it’s not surprising that many aspects of disability might have been overlooked or dismissed. It’s always worth considering these aspects, I think)

I also personally headcanon that writing especially took him decades to relearn properly. Even alongside brain damage, having to write with a completely unfamiliar hand while likely dealing with chronic pain and other symptoms! Due to my own neuro issues I have enough issues writing with my dominant hand! I can’t imagine having to relearn with the other. 

Finally, it makes sense both medically and in universe that Maedhros experiences a regression in his symptoms post Nírnaeth. The body-mind-soul connection is so strong for elves and symptom regression following severe physical or psychological trauma can absolutely happen.

Also on a similar note I headcanon that Húrin has severe neurological damage from Angband too

Anyways I hope this is an ok reply! As I said I also get super fixated on the effects of Angband on the body, mind, and soul of elves and humans

#the silmarillion #maedhros #in the iron hell #post Angband #musing and meta #Húrin

[dracwife]

rites.

ship: curumo (saruman)/ídhril

word count: 1035

summary: idrhil and curumo get a moment alone during an elven festival. see the end for some explanations/clarifications, this has quite a bit of weird lore stuff to it that takes place far before any of the films!

They watch the feast celebration, from the far comforts of one of the high balconies of the Royal Family's Court -- Ídrhil's dwelling, granted to him for the purpose of training. In other words: His room, as appointed by the King, his father. 

He stands stiffly, next to the tall, dark-haired Maia -- a god, or as close as you could get, and yet there he too waits, next to the Woodland elf whose small commune was far from his native land -- whose bandages wrapped tightly around his torso, and who still aches in places, even after months of healing. He could, at least, walk now with ease. Together they watch the crowd that has gathered on this cool night, amongst the repurposed Elven village. A line of children, young men and women, and a few adults even stand in line, with fathers and mothers once at a time guiding their children through their ritual -- that of choosing a new name, an important step in their lives, a sign of maturity and independence. Their King stands just beyond them, the highest honor for the families that participate. 

Curumo hopes he is remembering it all correctly, for Ídrhil had explained it all rather quickly the night previous. He can barely make out the voices from afar. 

"What are they saying?"

Ídrhil mumbles a long string of something similar enough to Sindarin, not so much repeating as he is reciting. He finishes in tandem with the distant child and after pauses, raising his glass slightly.

"Drink to me, for I am born again. And alone do I walk this path in life, sure and strong will I forge ahead my own way."

Curumo hums, intrigued. 

"It is a rite of passage, then? This festival, this Mereth Nuin Giliath."

"Not so much as it is a celebration. The words, they are the rite. As is choosing a new name, befitting of your nature. It is an important part of my people's culture."

"What does yours mean?"

The elf turns his head, meeting the other's eyes.

"Ídrhil, one who longs, or desires."

"You chose this name?"

He nods, to which Curumo questions him again: "What do you long for?"

"To travel. To learn. Wandering is in my nature, it is what my clan does, but we never go far enough to meet anyone else; We do not fare well with strangers, you saw that for yourself when you awoke here. It frightens them, I think. The idea that we are not the last of our kind."

"And you?"

"I believe there are others. That there must be. I wish to find them, and even if there are not, I wish to try. There is so much out there, beyond Valinórë, and even beyond Middle-Earth. I want to go there. I want to see it for myself."

"An admirable quest. If you ever go, I would wish to go with you."

Ídrhil smiles.

"Curumo, it is Quenya, is it not? 'Skilled one,' if my memory serves."

"Where ever did you learn Quenya?"

"I would sneak out when I was young, when we would settle near the abandoned Vanyar camps. Sometimes there were scripts there -- I deciphered what I could from them. I fear my father has a far better grasp on the language than I, not that I would ever admit to him I knew any of it at all."

"In that case, I am pleased to say you remember quite well."

"Thank you," Ídrhil bows his head. When he raises it, their gazes meet again.

A moment passes.

"Curunír, in my tongue." 

"...I quite like the sound of that." He raises his glass with a smile, "Will you not drink to me, then? Is that not the custom?"

Ídrhil nods with a chuckle, sips from his cup finally. Curumo -- Curunír -- does the same. He sucks in a breath at the bitter taste.

"I've not ever tasted such strong wine."

"It is not our usual drink, I thought it might suit a Maia better than the tastes of the Tawarwaith traditional wine."

"Is that so? May I decide for myself?"

Ídrhil offers a glass that is all but empty, "I'm afraid I've had the majority of my own, I did not get much for I do not drink often --"

"That's alright," Curumo hushes him. They face each other, the light of the moon scarcely illuminating the balcony they stand on, and it is then the taller of the two takes a small step forward, with what little space between them collapsing and leans down, hesitating only slightly in anticipation before pressing his lips to the elf's.

The kiss is bitter, not in the way Ídrhil expects but in the familiar taste of the strong ale he's brought his companion -- alongside it mint, and the milk and honey of the sweet batter they'd shared earlier that evening as a traditional dessert -- and he melts deeper into the kiss as the cup falls from his hand and shatters against the marbled floor; He sighs, his hand coming to rest against the Maia's cheek and then shortly after tangles into dark hair as he indulges finally in the touch he's craved for so long. When Curumo finally pulls away, he's grinning, cunning as his name suggests and he licks the last of the wine from his own lips.

"Wine has never tasted so sweet, I think."

Ídrhil feels his face flush, and from trembling lips falls more broken Sindarin, but Curumo is smart enough to decipher it this time around --

"Kiss me again, please."

And he does, wrapping his arms around Ídrhil and pulling him close this time. He brushes a stray hair out of the druid's face just after. Neither say anything, and months of time, though but a fleeting moment in both their lives for as long as they have lived come rushing back to Ídrhil, and for once so does a future, a forever, worth living for.

"Le melin," the elf breathes, his head still resting against the immortal's.

Curumo tilts away inquisitively, awaiting again a translation, but Ídrhil does not offer one, shaking his head with a solemn smile, "Perhaps we best get back to the feast."

"If you so wish."

Silmarillion Jr., or:

A couple of translations/explanations because I know this has some weird deep universe lore to it.

Maia(r): A race of ancient immortal beings that helped create all living things.

Curumo: A Maia, who would later be sent to Middle-Earth as the much more recognizable Saruman.

Sindarin: The language of certain Elven races, generally what most people refer to as Elvish.

Mereth Nuin Giliath: Sindarin, "Feast Under the Stars."

Valinórë: The Kingdom West of Middle-Earth, where immortal beings such as elves and Maia reside.

Quenya: Another Elven language, spoken commonly in the Elves of Valinórë.

Vanyar: A race of Elves.

Tawarwaith: The Sindarin name for Wood-Elves.

Le melin: "I love you."

#i dont even have a tag for them yet. whatever. #dex.writes #gn. im not lucid enough to be perceived for this.

[undercat-overdog]

I will never get over Earendil, Elwing and language, and how it’s used to show their connection to each other and to their heritages.

Earendil is canonically trilingual (Quenya, Sindarin, and Taliska) and he pleads to the Valar for the peoples of Middle-earth in all three languages; he succeeds in his plea in part because he can speak in all three languages - he’s asking on behalf of (almost) everyone in Beleriand - the Exiles, the native Sindar, and the Edain, and though he doesn’t have any Sindarin ancestry (though his wife and children do) he can speak the language and does.

Earendil also named Vingilot after Elwing 🥺🥺💖. Tolkien makes note of it more than once and at one point says that the ship has to be called Vingilot (or a variation thereof; there are multiple forms) because it references Elwing’s name. From Problem of Ros:

[Elros] called [his ship] Wingalôtë*, which like his own names were Quenya in form; for Quenya was his childhood's speech, since in the house of his mother's father, Turukáno (Turgon), King of Gondolin, that speech was in daily use. But Vinga- was not a Quenya word: it was a Quenyarized form of the Bëorian wing that appeared in Elwing the name of his spouse. The form given to this name in Sindarin was Gwingloth, but as said above it was in the Adunaic of Númenor translated as Rôthinzil.

[...]

[Christopher says that his father] still held to the view that the word wing  (‘spray, spindrift’) was of Bëorian origin; and while noting that the name Wingalôtë [> Wingelótë] of Earendil's ship had not appeared in print, [Tolkien] observed that it ‘must be retained, since it is connected with the name Elwing [...] Concerning wing he said again that Earendil named his ship in Quenya form, since that language had been his childhood speech, and that he intended its meaning to be ‘Foam-flower’; but he adopted the element wing from the name of Elwing his wife. That name was given to her by her father Dior, who knew the Bëorian tongue [Dior grew up either bilingual or with Beorian as his first language; Luthien and Beren spoke it to each other.]

Earendil likely learned the Edainic language Taliska in Sirion. It’s questionable whether Tuor spoke it - certainly it wasn’t Tuor’s native language, which would have been the Sindarin spoken by Annael and the other Elves who raised him.

Elwing spoke Taliska too, and gave Elros a name with a Taliska element. She (obviously) speaks Sindarin as well, probably multiple dialects thereof, since there were multiple dialects spoken in Sirion (there were several tongues to be heard [in Sirion]. Not only the Sindarin, which was chiefly used, but also its Northern dialect**).

But I also think she speaks Quenya. Firstly, she speaks to the Teleri. Telerin and Quenya are mutually intelligeable - that is, someone who speaks one language can understand someone who speaks the other, though there may be some difficulties. Meanwhile, Sindarin would not at all help her speak to the Teleri - Telerin and Sindarin don’t have much in common aside from a couple sound changes not found in Quenya (/kw/ to /p/ and the prenasalized voiced stops becoming voiced stops rather than nasals). A monolingual speaker of Sindarin would not be able to communicate linguistically to a monolingual speaker of Telerin. Elwing was without a doubt exposed to Quenya - she married a native Quenya speaker who went by his Quenya name and lived in a city where a large portion of the population (the Gondolindrim) had at least some knowledge of it.

And her husband named a ship after her in Quenya - a clear act of love and acknowledgement, and also acknowledging their mutual human ancestry. Elwing and Earendil are so clearly devoted to each other and their love for each other informs everything they do - I can’t see Earendil using a Quenya name for Vingilot if Elwing didn’t like it; I can’t see Elwing as hating Quenya when it’s Earendil’s language. I can see her learning it because it’s Earendil’s language and she wants to learn it to learn him and be close to him, just as I can see Earendil learning Taliska because it’s a language she speaks or a language that she wants to learn because of her father and Beorian heritage. But just... language and sociolinguistics as a thing of connection and liminality and heritage and love, and the multilingualism of the Peredhil as a way of signifying their heritages.

*In later Exilic Quenya Vingilóte or Vingilot. Tolkien varies between i, e, and a for the second vowel; the published Silmarillion uses i. The /w/ -> /v/ change occurred in Exilic Quenya sometime in the Second or Third Age (I’d place it in the early Second, personally, and might headcanon it as starting in the First but not a change that happened in isolated Gondolin.) The lóte -> lot shows fairly common Exilic changes: one is that long vowels shorten in final syllables and the other is that there’s often alteration between -CV:Ce and -CVC (see also Númenóre ~ Númenor).

Incidentally, Rôthinzil (also Rothinzil) is very pretty I think. Adûnaic is often very pretty.

**what Tolkien means by “the Sindarin but also its Northern dialect” is unclear. Sirion was founded by Falathrim refugees after the Nirnaeth, so their dialect woud have been spoken first and it’s also the dialect that becomes Standard Sindarin, as seen in LotR and Jirt’s writings. I don’t think he’d refer to the Iathren dialect as plain “Sindarin” and the Falathrim/Standard dialect would definitely be spoken in the Havens so I think that’s what he’s referring to. Presumably there would be some Sindarin of Doriath as well, so all three major Sindarin dialects there (not that the dialects are all that divergent). Sirion is very multilingual!

#meta #sorry really rambly! #but i think it's really neat how all three languages intertwine in earendil and elwing's story #conlangs #elwing #earendil

[absynthe--minded]

@mirillel I’m making this its own post because this is WHOLLY about my own opinions (which is valid Quenya linguistics; they have principles dedicated to aesthetic appeal over other functions, so my being a self-admitted picky priss means I’m in good company) but essentially:

“Glorfindel” is probably a Sindarinization of the Quenya (either Noldorin or Vanyarin) “laurë + findëlë”, meaning “golden + lock of hair”

PE17 lists possible variations as Laurëfindëlë, Laurëfindil, Laurëfindel, Findelaurë, and Kulufindëlë (with kulu being an older word for gold that’s associated with coins in words like kulusta)

I like Laurëfindil because it sounds less Noldorin than the other options, which is in keeping with my opinion that the royal line he’s descended from is Ingwë’s rather than Finwë’s, and also because it’s got a double meaning - “laurë + fin + dil” also means “Friend of Golden Hair” or “Golden-Haired Friend”.

The takeaway from this is that I have several tiny Quenya preferences that mean I can never be in mixed company; one look at certain choices and I become a gremlin coming out of her well to shame mankind for the crime of having an opinion that isn’t mine, which is the ultimate fate of anyone who becomes obsessed with Quenya.

#tolkien #replies #mirillel

[culmaer]

the only question I have about Lord of the Rings (the films specifically. I'm sure it's consistent in the books) is does Frodo understand Elvish ?

when he gets the ring, he clearly recognises the Tegwar. the line "it's some form of Elvish. I can't read it" further implies that there is a form of Elvish he can read/understand. and after meeting Strider/Aragorn, when he's singing about Lúthien and Beren, Frodo asks "the lady you sing of, who is she ?" so he's clearly understood the song

but then, at the gates of Moria when confronted with the riddle, he has to ask Gandalf "what's the Elvish word for friend ?" even though it's literally written above the gate within the riddle

so my only guess is that Frodo has studied Quenya as a literary language (and the song of Lúthien and Beren being in Quenya would make sense) but he's not learnt Sindarin, despite it being (as far as I know) the living, spoken language of the Elves at that time. it'd be a little unexpected though, for a magic gate to be inscribed in the vernacular, rather than High Elvish, but I guess it's possible ? but then this would also mean, Frodo does not understand whenever Aragorn speaks to Legolas or the elves of Lothlórien ??

#lord of the rings #elvish #quenya #sindarin

[gi-nathlam-hi]

“completely had to rework my entire understanding/headcannons around their relationship and i don't mind” okay I’m so curious - what was your understanding/headcanons about Elrond and Galadriel’s relationship before TROP?

Oh! Thank you for the ask omg. I'm so sorry it took me this long to get back to you because this is such a fun question!

TLDR: I headcannoned them as being basically coworkers who mutually respect that the other person is really wise and levelheaded and knows what they're doing, and have a LOT of issues with each other but they've called a mutual truce for Cel and the kids' benefits. And when things are calm/good they're generally fond of each other and amicable. But I just never imagined them being close or familial the way they are in the show at all.

LONG ASS post under the cut because I can't be normal about trying to explain my own thoughts on things and I ended up clipping parts of my fanfics to hopefully illustrate what I mean lol. **Includes references to kidnap fam, fair warning. So if that's not your thing just be warned that this is VAGUELY pro kidnap-fam (but not like...out and loud kidnap fam apologist material at all. They're just mentioned a lot as a motive for why I see Elrond and Gal's relationship the way that I do).

I just never got the impression that they were ever close in the way that Rings of Power portrays them. I think my thoughts are more easily summed up with some of these snippets:

Elrond never knew quite how to feel when Lady Galadriel visited Imladris. The fact that he was a Fëanorian fosterling and didn’t seem to openly hate either Maedhros or Maglor had always been a point of tension between the two of them-- begrudgingly softened at first by his service to Gil-Galad in Lindon (she had regarded him with marked suspicion then), softened further by long years of strictly political interactions which gradually morphed into a form of friendship, and then at last that friendship had turned familial when he had married Celebrían. But familial relationships could often be far more fraught with unbearable awkwardness than friendships, and so it had, in some ways, been a step backward for the two of them.

-

A hand closed around that notion the way an eagle might snatch a mouse. Elrond sucked in a breath and shut his mind before the inquiry could actually grasp hold. They had reached the council chamber. Lady Galadriel was already there in her white gown standing at the overlook, staring up at the rising moon and pointedly ignoring him as if she had not just reached for his thoughts the way a small child might reach for an especially enticing piece of candy.  Elrond paid her a respectful bow. “My apologies for rushing out so abruptly and for keeping you waiting, my lady.” He stuck with Sindarin, no matter how many times Galadriel always tried to coax him into Quenya. He had a lingering Fëanorian lisp that he had absorbed from his fathers as a child and had never quite been able to rid himself of, much to the amusement of his wife and the chagrin of her parents. She turned to look at him with a nod. The corners of her mouth curled up. “The child?” The question was in Quenya, naturally. He never would understand why, if she disliked his accent so much, she insisted on trying to get him to speak it. 

-

So, basically things aren't necessarily tense between them but they aren't great, either. But they for sure have never disliked each other in my head. There is just a whole lot of baggage. Galadriel still considers him part of her family and loves him and likes to tease him in her own way! Case in point:

Thranduil had hardly spared him a glance through most of breakfast, but now Elrond felt him studying him, squinting. He caught the king’s eye and frowned. “What?” “Are you aware that your ears are bruising? Rather impressive bite mark, I must say.” Elrond flushed red. “I hadn’t noticed.” Thranduil hummed into his teacup. “Blush as prettily as you like. It doesn’t help them blend in any better. You may wish to consider wearing your hair a bit...differently. Though I suppose your wife rather likes the look of her handiwork. No--” he put a hand on Elrond’s arm. “Do not rush out, mellon nín. T’would draw far too much attention. Celebrían!”  Celebrían looked up from mid conversation with her mother. Elrond shielded his very pink face in one hand.  “You must be more careful with your poor husband. Peredhel skin bruises more easily, I think.”  Elrond could just fade from shame. He felt sure Galadriel was hiding a choked laugh in her cup. Celebrían shot Thranduil a knife-sharp glare. Thranduil reclined in his chair with a smug smirk and gave one of Elrond’s uniquely-shaped ears a fond tug.  “Oh, stop turning so pink, Peredhel,” Galadriel said. She nudged Celebrían in the shoulder. “You have always liked his ears.”  Celebrían let out a cry of pure outrage. “ Amya! Please!”  “It was all she could talk about during your betrothal.” When Lindir came running up to the dais with some announcement, Elrond had never been more glad to see him.

But there is still some underlying tension and I kind of have it in my head that they have a sort of...agree to disagree dynamic when it comes to Maedhros and Maglor, which leads to a LOT of simmering conflict that can bubble up in times of stress. I do like the whole concept of kidnap fam but my feelings on them are really complex...and that's a post for another day. But basically long story short: I think Elrond does consider Mae and Mags to be his dads (more than Earendil. I know that's uh...a VERY contentious headcannon but I stick by it). Galadriel understandably hates this and in my head it's just this GIANT source of conflict for them.

And I think rather than me muddling through trying to explain how I carry this headcannon out when writing their relationship it's better again if I just show you lol:

A commotion buzzed through the corridor outside and Galadriel stormed into the room the very next second, eyes gleaming with fury. Elrond shot to his feet and stepped between her and the lump on the bed. “Stand aside,” she said coldly.  “I will not,” Elrond replied, trying to sound much more calm than he felt, drawing himself up to full height. “I apologize, mother-of-my-beloved, but if you would do him harm, you must strike me first.”  War waged in her green eyes.  Elrond held his breath, and then quietly pleaded: “Please, my lady. He is your kin.”  “That mattered little to him or his Oath,” she snarled back. “Or have you forgotten, Eärendilion? Is your memory so short?”   The patronym made him flinch. Still, he would not move. “I have forgotten nothing.” “It would not be kinslaying,” she said, stepping to the left. Elrond matched her, still barring her way. She glared at him. “It would be justice.” Despite himself, he felt tears brimming in his eyes. “Look at him!” he hissed. “Look at him and tell me justice has not been paid a thousand times over!”  Her gaze passed over Elrond’s head to Maglor, to where he lay broken, bloodied, and very small on the bed, gripped in a sleep that bordered perilously on death. Her expression did not soften. She made another step for him and Elrond barred her way yet again, bowing his head. “I will not fight you,” he murmured. Truly, in his state he could not. “But neither will I let you take his life. We stopped killing our kin a long time ago, please do not start again. Not here. Not in my house. Not now. Please-- look to the future as you have always done. Stop this madness. Let it end.” He could feel her glaring down with him with eyes that burned. The air lay thick between them. Every muscle in his body was tense, ready to throw himself over Maglor if need be-- but Galadriel didn’t move. It felt like hours passed.  Galadriel lifted her sword and he half-sprung into action, but she simply slammed it back into its sheath. “You are beloved-of-my-daughter, and I have grown very fond of you. But should evil befall your city, my daughter, or my grandchildren on account of the Fëanorian it will be on your head, and your fate will be the same as his.”

So before TROP, this is kind of what their relationship at its core boils down to. They have a LOT of issues with each other that they have learned to set aside/work past due to a) being coworkers for the greater good of middle earth (bearers of the Three) b) Celebrian's benefit c) Arwen, Elladan, and Elrohir's benefit Like, they're fond of each other now. They know each other really well now. But I just never had it in my head that they were at all super chill with each other during the Second Age. It's really funny actually?? TROP's dynamic between Galadriel and Elrond looks a LOT more like how I imagined Gil-Galad and Elrond's relationship before seeing the show! And vice-versa. Just take show!Gil and Elrond's dynamic and apply it to Elrond and Galadriel and that's pretty much how I viewed their dynamic during the Second Age (and during times when they're uh...fighting....for some reason in the Third Age re: the above snippets lol).

That isn't to say that Galadriel necessarily disliked/hated Elrond in my head. She just didn't trust him due to his connection with and unwillingness to let go of Maedhros and Maglor.

If her daughter must be wed, it would be to no one less than the Peredhel. Galadriel had originally envisioned Gil-Galad (queen of the Noldor was Celebrían’s birthright, if Galadriel had anything to say of it—she was just as Noldorin as she was Sindarin, and the granddaughter of Arafinwë and great granddaughter of Finwë, no less), but Gil-Galad was not available. The Peredhel was descended from Melian the Maia and Galadhon on his mother’s side, and could have had the crown himself if he so wished—being descended from Ñolofinwë several generations back. Beyond that he was clever, a strategist, a politician, and in possession of his own realm. He would be able to give Celebrían the standard of living she was accustomed to. The life she deserved. He was pleasant to look at, too (on some days he gave Galadriel goosebumps, for how in the right light beneath certain trees it seemed Lúthien— perhaps even Melian herself—was incarnated before her eyes).  And he was kind and gentle, which never hurt. It was almost a waste: he hadn’t a shred of ambition for all his cunning and claim. Then again, neither did Celebrían. Perhaps that was for the best. Ambition had thus far been rather ruinous for the Noldor. It seemed the younger generations had managed to learn from their predecessors’ mistakes. 

so....yeah...

I do really LOVE what they've done with them in the show though!! So I've sort of adopted it as a secondary viewpoint because I'm so fond of it. So many of the show's interpretations of characters (especially GIL-GALAD) are WILDLY different to how I view them that I kind of have a seperate box in my head now of Rings of Power 'verse as opposed to my usual "canon" 'verse that I tend to keep consistent throughout my work.

Whew! That was a WAY longer answer than I'm sure you wanted lol. Don't ask me questions like this. I can go for hours and hours about my own thoughts on things lol.

#elrond #galadriel #maedhros #maglor #kidnap fam #trop #rings of power #the rings of power #my fics #i guess #lol #someone take tumblr away from me #i need to go to bed

[hexentanzenigma]

Astarion's Name - Meaning - LOTR Elven languages (Quenya/Sindarin)

WILD ASTARION SPOILERS AHEAD ~Sometimes I use Google Translate~ Sorry for the horrible formatting, I'm still figuring out things!

About 20 years ago, instead of taking the train and going to my university and attending my classes, I hid in the local library in my small town to study Sindarin. It was the time of LOTR movie trilogy. Obviously.

It's a shame that Sindarin is much less complete than Quenya, which at the time had some full books (in Italian) dedicated to the grammar. Sindarin had nothing more than this single text file I was able to find (and even in English there wasn't much more), but the challenge was more compelling because it was wonderful to have to rack my brain to create words that Tolkien had never bothered or had reason/time to invent.

Quenya and Sindarin are and sound completely different.

The nice thing was to discuss whether you offered a good translation or whether there was some other better combination.

Quenya therefore remains Tolkien's most used and abused elven language which, I believe, gave the basis to many other elven languages in other settings such as D&D.

Having made this small and useless premise to say that I know how to navigate Tolkien's elven languages, I get to the point:

assuming and probably not granting that whoever came up with this name in Larian did so by studying Quenya or looking for precise grammatical rules rather than simply coming up with it because the sound was beautiful or deriving it from another name...

let's see the meaning a little, without being too technical.

ASTAR-ION

ASTAR

There are a few things called "astar" in Quenya.

1) the plural of "asta", that is a part of something else, almost always referred to a part of the year, a month. This wouldn't make any sense.

2) faith, loyalty (not belief) In Sindarin it's "astor", with the same meaning, pretty similar.

So "Faith"/"Loyalty" might be the right one.

-ION

About "ion" we must delve a little deeper and see both Quenya and Sindarin.

In Quenya "ion" means "from whom" or "of whom". It's a plural pronoun in genitive of "ye" - "who". We have also yondo, meaning "son" (the origin of this word is far more complex than this, so I'll keep it simple) but in some of Tolkien writings it means also "boy". Later in time, yondo as "son" would be replaced by anon.

This gives to -ion a patronymic use to say "son or descendant of". Like Russian ones (example: Boris Ivanovich, Boris son of Ivan) or Icelandic ones (Hallur Einarsson - Hallur son of Einar).

In Tolkien's works, for example, we have Isildurioni - "son/descendant of Isildur".

In Sindarin instead, "ion(n)" means "son" or "boy" as in Quenya, if used on its own.

But -ion as a suffix of a name, is THE Sindarin patronymic. No other use. The MASCULINE patronymic meaning "son (male child) of".

Gil-Galad is also called Ereinion (Scion of Kings) Inglorion (Son of Inglor)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So we could translate Astarion as the most simple meaning of the name, “Astarion - Son of the Faith”.

It would already be very appropriate.

Astarion, paradoxically, had a lot of faith in his heart. Faith also understood as hope.

The hope of one day freeing himself from Cazador's slavery and regaining his free will.

Faith in himself, not in Gods and heroes, that he prayed so much without anyone answering his prayers or coming to help him.

But what if, considering the two assumptions that now I write below, the meaning was more literal?

Assumption 1 - Astarion's tombstone says he lived only 39 years. Very few for an Elf. I still don't know if the dates are officially correct or something on Larian's part is incorrect, but let's leave it as it is.

Assumption 2 - In D&D 5e, elves appear to age like humans until they reach an "adult" appearance/maturity. Once physically adults, their life expectancy extends enormously and can reach 700-750 years. It's logical in fact that they do not remain vulnerable children for around 200 years, but spend most of their lives as adults.

Their concept of maturity, however, is completely on a voluntary basis: around 100/110 years of age, when an Elf feels ready, they declare that they're mature and take on an adult name, replacing the "child" one.

Between the reach of physical maturity and the social declaration of maturity, elves are considered whimsical, chaotic, prone to indulge in vices and desires, too emotional. They need to study, travel, explore, and accumulate wisdom and nurtore their personal knowledge and culture because this will "calm down" their mind. This is because of their Fey ancestry, their connection to the Feywild.

MY SMALL (CRACK) THEORY

What if “Astarion” was not “son of faith” but “son of Astar”, having not yet declared his independence as an adult Elf and "Astarion" represents his "child name"?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PERSONAL NOTES

Keep in mind that I share this more for fun than because I actually believe it. It's nice material for a few headcanons.

Honestly I don't think Larian put together Astarion's name from Quenya or Sindarin rather than the Elvish language from D&D, since there is one.

Personally I hope that in the future Larian will explain more about Astarion's age, because personally I don't really like the idea of him being under the Elven age of maturity. I would have preferred him at least about 150 years old, excluding the 200 spent as a slave.

It's true that Elves mature like humans, so 40 years are 40 years for everyone, so he IS physically 40 years old, he IS adult, he HAD his own important career. He just wasn't "socially adult" for the Elven culture.

But, speaking about age, would you like to know my take about the dates on Astarion's headstone?

#astarion #baldur's gate astarion #Astarion's name #Astarion name #Astarion meaning #astarion ancunin #astarion analysis #astarion baldurs gate #astarion spawn #astarion spoilers #astarion bg3 #bg3 #baldurs gate astarion #baldur's gate 3 #HexAnalysis

[tolkien-feels]

Can you explain… nolofinwean and arafinweans? Like I tried googling the etymology of that and didn’t get much. What exactly do those names mean, beyond the descendants of Finarfin and Fingolfin? (Also which is which?) and do Feanorians get a -finwean name too?

I have tons of asks to go through that I should probably answer first but this one is really straightforward so I'm starting from it

The Elves of Valinor (and possibly all or most other elves) have a complex naming system. For the purposes of this post, let's stick with father-names and mother-names, so called because they're given by the child's father and mother respectively. Because the language spoken in Valinor is Quenya, all names below are in Quenya.

Feanor's father-name is Curufinwë (meaning Skilled Finwe), and his mother-name is Fëanáro (meaning Spirit of Fire.) In Middle-Earth, Fëanáro is adapted into Sindarin as Fëanor, which is what you get throughout the Silmarillion.

Fingolfin's father-name is Ñolofinwë (meaning Wise Finwe), but later, for political reasons, that name gets changed into Finwë-Ñolofinwë, which is really just a way to emphasize he is Finwe's son (and therefore a viable king.) Fingolfin's mother-name is Aracáno (meaning High Chieftain.) In Middle-Earth, Finwë-Ñolofinwë is adapted into Sindarin as Fingolfin.

Finarfin's father-name is Arafinwë (meaning Noble Finwe), and that later gets changed into Finwë-Arafinwë, for the same reasons as Fingolfin's name is. His mother-name is Ingoldo (which means The Wise or The Noldo.) In Middle-Earth, Finwë-Arafinwë is adapted into Sindarin as Finarfin.

(And now I'll drop the diacritics because my keyboard hates them.)

When they're using their Quenya names, Feanor goes by his mother-name, Feanaro, while Fingolfin and Finarfin go by their father-names, Nolofinwe and Arafinwe. This is a matter of personal preference, basically.

So when we want to refer to Fingolfin's family, we call them Nolofinweans (or sometimes Nolofinwions, which is a half-Quenya half-English way of saying "sons of Nolofinwe"), and similarly when we want to refer to Finarfin's family we call them Arafinweans or Arafinwions.

Feanarians is a little hard to say, so we cheat and borrow from his Sindarin name and just say Feanorians lol (Or maybe there's a different reason, but I don't know it.) Anyway, sometimes you might also see Feanorions or Feanarions, depending on whether the person borrows from Quenya or from Sindarin.

Instead of Feanorians, you could technically say Curufinweans, but that'd probably be a bad idea, because Feanor named his favorite son Curufinwë (which is how we get Sindarin Curufin), so it'd be difficult to know if you mean Feanor's family or Curufin's family. Plus, you'd be using the father-name Feanor doesn't really go by rather than the mother-name he goes by, which is a weird choice.

All of this to say... No, there's no real deep meaning, it's just a shorthand to talk about the three families. You might also see Finweans or Finwions when talking about all of Finwe's descendants.

For more fun with names, try and read volume 12 of the History of Middle-Earth series. It's called The Peoples of Middle-Earth, and there's a whole section dedicated to discussing the names of the descendants of Finwe! (That's also where we get the nicknames you might've seen being used, such as Nelyo and Kano for Maedhros and Maglor respectively. But that's a different topic.)

#this is probably longer than you needed and yet i'm cringing as i oversimplify some things to save space

[danafinwefeaelenionfeanorian]

Tolkien Gen Week Day Three: Enemies, Rivalries & Fealty

471 FA

"This is Oropher," Thingol gestures to a blonde male wearing robes. "He will be your guide,"

Oh for fucks sake. A babysitter. A damned babysitter. I am not a child. Nor am I an infant. I haven’t needed watching for 3 thousand years. There is a high likelihood that I am older. At least he appears decent. If he is sensible, he'll do well to not anger me.

Oropher is quite a bit shorter than I am. I’d bet five inches at least. Long blonde hair, slightly curly, piecing gray-blue eyes. His mouth has a slight curl to it. As if he's amused. I wonder by what?

If he thinks this will be easy he’s in for a treat. Rather a terror. I don’t take kindly to being imprisoned for three years. But I have a job to do. 

I rub the stiffness out of my mangled wrists. Once I gave my answer I was taken to the healers to get them cleaned and wrapped. They will be stiff and sore for a while. 

"Pleasure," I shake Oropher's hand.

Thingol leaves us to get aquatinted. That or kill the other. I’ve yet to decide if Oropher is a worthy opponent. The moment Thingol is out of earshot Oropher’s smirk turns to a sneer. "Behave noldo,"

"You should not anger me, I am called kinslayer for a reason." I allow the dampened flames to rise to the surface. Oropher narrows his eyes. "What no snarky response?"

"Your Sindarin is remarkably good for a native Quenya speaker,"

Of course, it is. Noldor are adept at learning a new craft. Especially languages. Sindarin is simple. An easy feat for any noldo. Quenya is more complex. It holds a beauty few can understand save its native speakers. It's timeless and stunning. 

"I was one of the first to learn. I’d suggest not trying to curse me under your breath," 

Oropher rolls his eyes and begins walking away. "Hurry up," He then mutters under his breath about being intolerable and a child. 

As if. 

"I'm older."

_____

“Say it again,” I growl at Oropher. The smaller male sneers deeper. “Say it to my face Oropher,”

Oropher steps closer. So close the wine he had wafts up my nose. “You are an arrogant bitch,” 

He is too close to being punched. Never mind he is. He really is. 

I smile widely. “Yes but I haven’t been punched in the face,”

“Neither have—”

I don’t give him a chance to finish before I punch him square in the face. Oropher recoils, clutching his nose. It’s likely broken. I do have a good punch. 

Seven brothers do that to you. 

“Now you have,” I state turning on my heel. “Good day.” 

_____

Where did my brush go? Where is it? I had it last night. Now it's gone. It can’t just be gone. It has no legs, it can’t walk. 

No, it can’t walk but people can. If I was in Valinor before grandfather's death Huan could have taken it. But this isn’t Valinor and it’s not Huan who took my brush. 

Only one person aside from me and maid has access to this room and it’s not Thingol. Oropher is petty. And not over that punch. 

I barge out of my room and ask anyone I can find where Oropher is. When I find him he’s lounging in the library. 

“Where is my brush?”

“What brush?” He doesn’t look up from his book. Even from here, I can see the redness on his face. Mostly his nose and cheeks. He had a bandage on it but that has been disposed of. Good thing too. He looked terrible. 

“Varda you are impossible. How do you not know?” I growl. He knows exactly which brush I mean. It’s not like I have two. I’ve used this one since mother gave it to me. “You see me brush my hair each morning when you collect me. How can you not know?” 

“I have no idea what brush you are talking about,” 

“I’m sure you don’t, if I don’t have my brush by tonight there will be hell to pay.” I growl leaving him to his boring book. 

_____

3399 SA

"You are my closest advisor—”

"Was,” I growl deeply. “I was your closest advisor, your son ruined what trust we had," 

My glare shrinks Oropher back, he hasn’t had a need to be afraid of me since the second kinslaying. "He crossed the line. What that female whispers in his ear, especially about the Noldor, about me and my family is not alright. I can deal with the Sindar talking behind my back about me but the moment you spit in my face about my family that line is crossed and there is no going back,"

“What can I do to win you back? There has to be something,” 

“There is nothing you can do,” 

"Please Dana I need you, the greenwood needs you. No one can replace what you do, no one and by Varda did I try. All my advisors quit your job after a week, none of them could do the amount of work you do in a day," Oropher pleads. He looks ready to throw himself at my feet. "Please, I would do anything,"

I think over his words. Carefully. If he says he will do anything then he best mean it. Once I said the same and came to regret it.

"Anything?"

"Yes, anything,"

"Then swear your allegiance to me," I state. "You and all your descendants. That is how I go back to the greenwood,"

"I'll do it."

#oropher #danafinwe feaelenion feanorian #tolkiengenweek

[starlitwinter]

I’m not evil

Even after telling him my story in a language he did not know, Manwë still looked suspicious but less so. Probably noticing that I was not carrying any weapon.

"How do you say again... Mellon? Oh no, that's Sindarin."

Well then, let's use the rough sign language and try to make him understand that I'm not evil. I put my hand on my chest.

"Leya."

Then I pointed at him.

"Manwë."

Before coming back to me.

"Leya."

He looked at me a little confused. Come on, Manwë, it's not that hard to understand. Fortunately before I could start my explanations again, he made the gestures I had made.

"Manwë."

Bravo you know your own name!

"Leya."

I nodded and he held out his hand, inviting me to follow him. And well, he gives his trust quickly. But I accepted it with no comment. It's always good to have a Vala by your side instead of nobody.

"Follow me young Leya." "Just because we exchanged names doesn't mean I understand Quenya now."

He smiled at me and we started walking towards who knows where. After a few minutes, Manwë started pointing at things before teaching me their names and then, I never thought that the most powerful Valar (after Melkor) would stoop to that but well, he mimed simple actions like eating and sleeping and taught me the words. This gave me a pretty... basic vocabulary before we arrived at the bottom of the mountain where he lives with Varda. Taniquetil or whatever. 

"And how do we get up there?"

He smiled at me and wrapped one of his arms around my waist before flying off.

"Oh my god. Don't let go!"

The climb was quick and we soon found ourselves at the top of the mountain. A kind of city was built there. Everything was pearly white and in the center of the city stood a house bigger than the others. It must have been Manwë's house. I was so amazed by the beauty of what was in front of my eyes that I didn't even realize that our feet had found solid ground. Manwë still had his arm around my waist and I still had the fabric of his sleeve in my hands. He made me let go of him gently before taking my hand in his. And we began to walk again. If my memory is good, the people of Ingwë live here too. So I should see some elves soon... Here they are! God they are big and sparkling. And with their blond hair. Too much beauty for my poor eyes. I'm going to be blind at the end of the day...

"Elves."

Manwë looked at me intrigued by my reaction to the sight of the elves. Because I was halfway to crying. Wait. What about me? Did the magic of the senario make me a fucking elf? That would be so cool! I quickly put my hand up to my ears before I felt plastic. Damn my swimming cap. I quickly took it off, letting my hair down and checked my ears. Ah. Still round. 

"So you had your hair hidden. As well as round... ears." 

Manwë had lifted a strand of my hair, clearing my ears.

"Still don't get it."

He said nothing and let my hair fall back down before lifting his own and showing me his pointed ears.

"Ears." "Ears?" "Ears."

Is he really using every possible situation to teach me Quenya words? Absolutely. Then he pointed to his house.

"Manwë, house."

What did I say.

"Leya, house. At least for now. We'll see where you reside once you can speak basic Quenya."

Wait. I didn't understand the end of the sentence but the beginning. If I understood correctly. I will live with him? And Varda? As long as I avoid Finwë's family I will be better off. And live longer. So it's a good idea.

"Manwë, Leya, house." "Manwë and Leya's house"

Yippee my first sentence! Which I probably wouldn't use anywhere. But at least now I have 'and'. I'm progressing!  Once in the house. Or rather, the castle for crying out loud. It's just huge. Anyway, Manwë called someone. A woman. Not Varda. An elf and spoke to her before pointing to me. She approached me and introduced herself, Ilia. And she motioned for me to follow her. I looked at Manwë to see what to do and he motioned for me to go.

"Go."

So like that, we get rid of me? Very well. So I followed Ilia into the castle and she took me to a room. While teaching me the names of all the objects in the room, she showed me my room. I guess this is my room. And boy, it's as big as an apartment. I sat down on the bed and she left me to get used to the room. 

Finally alone, the adrenaline of being in Aman subsided and I suddenly realized that I would never again hear Luke make fun of the mistake in my name. Or my questionable taste in food. Luke. My twin with whom I've shared everything since the beginning of my life. Luke, who I had the best time with. Luke. I would never see my parents again. Maman who pushed me to continue swimming, secretly hoping that I would make a career out of it and do what she could never do. Maman who made us dinner every night even though she said that soon it would be up to us to make it. Maman who separated and reconciled us when Luke and I argued. Papa who would hold Maman back. Papa who always took my side. Papa who watched science fiction movies with me. Papa who always gave me a book to cheer me up. 

"Oh fuck. I gotta get back. My family merde."

Tears began to slowly roll down my cheeks and I wiped them away as I went. I took deep breaths to calm myself. Just like I was taught. And slowly my tears stopped, leaving me just sniffling in silence.

"A bath. Let's take a bath."

I stood up and with one fluid movement removed my wetsuit and the bathing suit I was wearing underneath, leaving me naked in the room. I walked purposefully to the tub and stopped for a few seconds to admire it. Like the walls of the room, it was marble and shiny. I must have been expected to take a bath because there was already water in it. I dove in and found the water warm but not too hot. Water at the perfect temperature. I relaxed and closed my eyes. I could use a little nap...

"Leya? Wake up, you'll catch a cold."

I woke up to the sound of Ilia's voice and answered her in a sleepy voice before opening my eyes to look at her. 

"What?"

She pointed to the water.

"Water."

Then rubbed her arms, mimicking a shiver.

"Cold." "Ah okay. Cold water. I'm getting out."

I pulled myself out of the tub and exposed myself naked to Ilia. Fortunately, modesty had long since left my body. The collective showers and changing rooms of the pool had something to do with it... My nudity did not seem to bother her and she handed me a kind of towel. I'm sure it's made of wool of I don't know what. But I accepted it and dried myself quickly. Then she guided me to the part of the room that was the dressing room. And offered me a dress. 

"Dress."

I nodded and mimed the action of putting on pants and a t-shirt. She nodded and motioned for me to wait before searching the closets for what I wanted.  Once found, she handed them to me before giving me their names.

"Pants. Tunic."

I nodded but did not put them on. A little embarrassed I showed her with a vague movement my chest and my thigh and she laughed softly.

"Underwear."

She pulled out of a drawer a pair of women's underwear and something else that was supposed to be a bra. I put on the underwear and nodded to her that I didn't know how to put on the other thing. She nodded and helped me put it on. This thing is amazing because it doesn't look like a bra at all but it feels and fits exactly the same! I then put on the pants and tunic that she had taken out. Now dressed, she took me out of the room and walked me through the castle until I arrived at a door that must be at least four meters high. She knocked and beckoned me in. I did so. But she did not follow me. So I was alone in this room. Or rather this library, as far as I could see. Good God. We could have put two houses in there. The elves are not in the thin exaggeration! But I couldn't admire the library for very long because an elf approached me. 

"Hello young Leya. I am Luniteria and I will be your quenya teacher. Come." "So I didn't understand a thing. But hello to you too."

He smiled at me before guiding me to a table where we could see books, papers, ink and quills.

Oh merde. That's my Quenya teacher. 

#fanfic #fanfiction #silmarillion #tolkien #original character #original female character #maedhros #turgon #celegorm #ambarussa #galadriel #manwë súlimo #manwë

[fuckingfinwions]

please sir i am begging you for just a crumb of turgon/maeglin. (perhaps with some other gondolin nobility thrown in for flavor)

Maeglin will do anything no to be sent back to Eol.

What, did you think Eol was dead? No, Turgon is not a Kinslayer no matter how you provoke him. Instead Eol is imprisoned in the deepest dungeon below the castle. He's known as the Dark Elf; perhaps he prefers a windowless cell rather than being a contributing member of Gondolin society and walking beneath the bright sun.

(No one believes that. But he is not killed, and is told that he can come out of the cell if he swears to harm none, never leave the city, and pledge fealty to Turgon as king. He does not swear, and is out of sight and out of mind.)

Eol did not have the right to kill Maeglin, and certainly not to kill Aredhel. But he is head of his house, and did have the right to demand members of his household stay with him. So Maeglin ought to go into the cell with his father, where there's nothing to do but stare at the walls and listen to Eol's insults.

Unless of course, Maeglin joins another household, such as by marriage. He cane even stay out in the city, and see trees and the stars and the moon, as long as he's courting. (But he cannot be the head of a household in Gondolin of course; no Avar can outrank a Noldo.)

So Maeglin makes a half dozen "engagements" and breaks them just before he would have to commit to a wedding date. He doesn't trust any of the Lords of Gondolin to treat him well once he's not allowed to leave. (And no wonder, after what they do to him. He always acts eager for whatever his latest fiance suggests, for fear of them breaking it off early or telling the king it's a farce. Even if Glorfindel prefers to given golden showers rather than flowers, or the flute-player thinks Maeglin should learn how to hold a delicate instrument in his mouth, or Rog loves the way his muscles glisten after so long in the forge he nearly passes out from heat. It's still better than a cell.)

Yntil Turgon says this is ridiculous. If Maeglin will not marry yet that's fine, but he must join a household and stick with it. He can be Turgon's page. Maeglin is enthusiastic about this - he’s not in a cell, and if it’s terrible he can probably still convince Rog to marry him.

Page means that Maeglin writes notes (thank Eru he's learned Quenya by now) and carries letters and in general is on hand for whatever Turgon asks, all those little things that Turgon could do himself but it would be a waste of the King's precious time.

It would be a waste of time for Turgon to masturbate, with someone right there to take care of it for him. Turgon’s robe is long and ornate and goes nearly to the floor, but it’s loose enough for him to spread his legs a bit. Maeglin doesn’t have much room to maneuver underneath, but it’s not like he needs to move most of his body anyway. Just his head up and down on his uncle’s cock, and one hand to cradle the king’s balls while the other braces against the floor.

Maeglin is used to Sindarin stye tunic and legging rather than the full robes of Noldorin court. Turgon lets him keep wearing them, at least for a while. He even has new sets made in the royal colors, as Maeglin's page uniform.

And if the leggings have no crotch, well, the tailor is used to Noldorin clothes. It must be a mistake. But the tunic is long enough to cover it, no one can see anything when Maeglin stands beside his Uncle.

And Turgon can have Maeglin finger himself open and be presentable only seconds later.

#gondolin fucking #fucking finwions answers

[anghraine]

Obviously I find Faramir endearing in general, but I do think it’s super endearing that Faramir, who is deeply ambivalent about Elves, Galadriel in particular, and Lothlórien, uses the correct ancient name for it—Laurelindórenan.

(Also, it’s kind of funny that he’s specifically wary of Galadriel, the person who makes a point of using the correct ancient names for Dwarvish locations.)

#i also think that when he says éowyn's beauty surpasses even the ability of the elven-tongue to describe #he means quenya rather than sindarin #sindarin would be pretty mundane for him after all #tbh even if faramir couldn't describe éowyn's beauty in quenya i am pretty sure he's going to try #:)))) #(a lot of gondorians don't know quenya ofc but he says he's learned some of the ancient tongues #which ... obviously since he knows lothlórien as laurelindórenan! #i'm trying to remember if anyone other than treebeard still calls it that...) #also i think it's pretty hilarious that it's like #faramir: 'hmm there are dark rooms in your mind but i can tell that you know more than you're saying' #faramir: i can read in him that he's committed murder before #faramir: *compels truth by his presence* #faramir: so we've put a virtue on these staves that will hopefully work even in mordor #also faramir: elvish magic is weird and dangerous. we should just stay away #anghraine babbles #legendarium blogging #faramir #jewel of the seashore #húrinionath #galadriel

[barad-dur-archivist]

On the Naming of Sauron

The Maia called Mairon, though later on he became better known to the Peoples of Middle-Earth as Sauron the Abhorred, went by a great many names during his existence. Some of these he gave to himself, some were given to him. Some were little more than titles. Below is a list of all of the proper names used by Mairon, or to refer to Mairon, and a brief explanation of each.

MÂNARUŠUR — (Valarin, “Blessed/Perfect Flame”) The original Valarin name of Mairon, obtained when the Ainur who descended into Eä first took names for themselves and developed language outside of their Music and Song alone. Mairon does not know whether he chose this name for himself, or if it was bestowed upon him. Though he will still use the Valarin name if it is called for, Mairon typically prefers the Elvish or Ghashnum-burz names of his own design, and after long years in Middle-Earth there were few reasons to even use the Valarin language, thus the name fell into obscurity.

MAIRAN— (Primitive Elvish, “Beautifully Forged ”) The first name that Mairon chose for himself, after coming to Utumno to fully join Melkor after the destruction of the lamps, and after coming in contact with the early Quendi. The name itself is somewhat of a patchwork of various early dialects, and made before Mairon had a full understanding of the languages spoken by the Quendi. Regardless, Mairon would continue to use this version of his name until the arrival of the Quenya-speaking exiles to Middle-Earth.

MAIRÛZ — (Ghashnum-Burz, “One Held in Esteem”) Upon crafting his own language for use in Angband, Mairon altered his own Valarin name to better fit into the sound-pattern and tonality of the Black Speech, or Ghashnum-Burz, and gave it the meaning of “esteemed one” or “esteemed servant,” with the stem of the name, mairû, which eventually became mârû becoming the word for that title. Later, the name Mairûz would be used in Angband alongside the name Mairon, depending on which language was being spoken. This name fell out of use after the First Age, when in the Second Age a different moniker was used in the tongue of Mordor, but the Nazgûl would still use this name to refer to their master in a familiar sense.

THÛ — (Early Sindarin, “Evil Mist, Horrible Darkness”) A name given to Mairon by the Sindarin and Avarin Elves shortly after the Great Journey began, referring to the being that lured their kin away into the forests, never to be seen again. Though the name did not specifically refer to the Lieutenant of Angband, but rather a sort of “mythical” figure of dread. Mairon did not use this name for himself, but did not despise it quite so much as later monikers.

MAIRON — (Quenya, “The Admirable”) This name was first used by Aulë and the Elves to refer to the skilled Maia of the Forge who had vanished from Almaren in the aftermath of its destruction, and was thought to have been taken and corrupted, or worse, destroyed altogether. His theories and designs were often taught to others, and he was held in regard until it was revealed that he had, in fact, turned willingly to evil. Melkor brought the name back with him to Angband in his return. Mairon found it quite amusing that the Elvish name given to him in Aman be so close to the one he chose for himself, and chose to use it as his own proper name from then on, finding delightful irony in the fact that the name used by the Ainur and Elves to honor him would be used by himself in the twisting of their creations and beings. He would personally call himself by the name Mairon for all but the entirety of his remaining existence.

SAURON / ÞAURON — (Quenya, “The Cruel, The Abhorrent”) The name by which he would later be primarily known, and the one that he despised the most. He was given this name by the Ñoldorin exiles, and in particular by Maedhros after his captivity, though its use spread swiftly among the Exiles and even some of the Sindar. It is a corruption of the name Mairon, given in mockery of the fair form and name worn by the Lieutenant. This would be the moniker that survived and clung to him for the rest of his existence, though he would forbid his servants to call him such. It became the sole name used by his enemies largely due to the influence of Elendil and the Númenorean remnant using the name during the War of the Last Alliance.

GORTHAUR — (Sindarin, “Terrible Dread”) The name given to the Lieutenant of Morgoth by the Sindar, used commonly by the Doriathrim. Unlike Thû, which was used for a faceless foe, Gorthaur was used for Mairon specifically, with a face and a role to the name. It is unsure when this name would have begun being used, but it seems to have rose to prevalence alongside the name Sauron, and was used mainly after Mairon began working outside of Angband in the First Age, and was indeed more commonly used than the Quenya “Sauron,” particularly among the Edain. It fell out of use in the late First Age and the Second Age, however, and by the Third Age it had been entirely replaced with the use of the name Sauron.

ANNATAR — (Quenya, “Lord of Gifts”) Bestowed upon himself not as a proper name but instead as an alias, Annatar was the name that Mairon used while in Eregion, among the Elves, which he passed off as his right name. Frequently, the names Artano (“High Smith”) or Aulendil (“Friend of Aulë”) would be appended as titles to the name, given to imply a role as one of the Vala Aulë’s greatest servants. Though the truth about Annatar would later be revealed, Mairon would go on to use the name again in the East of Middle-Earth in the early stages of forming alliances, as a title and kingly name. Even in the Third Age, there were some small corners of the world that still referred to the Lord of Mordor after this manner.

ATHRÛL-DURBÛK — (Ghashnum-Burz, “Ruler of All the World”) First coined in the late Second Age after the forging of the Rings and Sauron’s domination of large swathes of the East and South of Middle-Earth, amidst his attempt to revive Ghashnum-Burz for use among those that served him. The title was given to himself so that he was not being addressed in an Elvish language, though he would continue to use Mairon for his own purposes and think of himself as such. Particularly among the Orcs in the Third Age, the name would often be short-handed to “Ûldu.” This name was only used by Sauron’s servants, and never spoken by any others.

TAR-MAIRON — (Quenya, “Lord Excellent”) Alongside Athrûl-Durbûk, Mairon also began to use the name Tar-Mairon to refer to himself in the Second Age, insisting it be used by those who did not speak Ghashnum-burz. It was mainly used in mockery of Númenor, as the construction was of the same manner of the names of Númenorean kings. However, save for some of his allies, this name was not often used. Upon becoming the High Priest of Melkor on Númenor and having Ar-Pharazôn firmly in his pocket, Mairon again began using this name, with much of Númenor referring to him in this manner before the Downfall.

ZIGÛR — (Adûniac, “Wizard”) This name was bestowed upon Mairon by Ar-Pharazôn of Númenor, first as a prisoner and later as a councilor. This was done as a show of power and dominance by Ar-Pharazôn, as well as due to the fact that the name “Sauron” was in the banned High-Elven tongue. Mairon, personally, thought the name trifling, and returned to using his own on Númenor once he had gained sufficient power and influence.

GÛLKRIMÛ— (Ghashnum-Burz, “Necromancer (lit. spirit-binder)”) The last of Sauron’s names, this one was used by himself and those who served him as the Necromancer in Dol Guldur, before his consciousness had returned fully enough to recall his right identity, and then afterwards to maintain secrecy. This name was used throughout the Third Age until he revealed himself openly and began construction on Barad-Dûr, after which he began to call himself Tar-Mairon and Athrûl-Durbûk once again.

#worldbuilding: the enemies #character: mairon #mairon #Sauron #lotr #lord of the rings #Tolkien #silmarillion #tolkien worldbuilding #cinnalore #ok to rb