#which is complicated bc personally i think he *does* deserve it lol

[theragamuffininitiative]

🥴

#sometimes i get the impression that jj's false arrogance actually turns over into false modesty #and idk how i feel about that #and definitely it has to do with the fallout of thing in 2020-2021 with other people #it just makes me sad sometimes to see him come into his own and be appreciated #but feel like he has an attitude that he deserves it #which is complicated bc personally i think he *does* deserve it lol #but idk humility is a very admirable trait and it just seems like something lost a lot of the time #ragamusings in the tags #been thinking about this for a couple years but that video (as adorable and funny as it is) #bothered me in that way too #like am i just projecting here or is there merit to me pulling back my admiration of him a lil bit #(and not just him but mostly him rn) #ok anyways thanks for coming to my ramble #i wish him all the best regardless

[ragnarokhound]

re: your tags on the jason’s anger post~

hard agree!! i will read reconciliation fics bc like… i do enjoy them getting to be a happy family/group but ultimately, i am firmly in the Jason Todd Was Right camp, &. serious work would need to be done for him to ever actually be part of the family again, bc the actual roots of his issues run DEEP. (and again! he has points!!)

and also same again on like… if i mention the batfamily dynamics in my fics, with the exception of au’s, jason’s relationship with bruce especially is still at least a little strained. he’s a member but also kind of an outsider and maybe he has complicated feelings on that sometimes but ultimately it’s bc his convictions / beliefs run deeper than his need /want of acceptance / belonging.

anyway sorry to dump a rant in your inbox but, i loved your tags & wanted to reply 💞

OUUGHH YES THO!! THANK YOU FOR RANTING, ALWAYS RANT IN MY INBOX STAY IN THIS SPACE WITH ME <333

(I'm about to have a mini-rant of my own, and disclaimer, it's largely informed by my terrible foundation of the UTRH movie + fandom osmosis + the occasional page/panel drop/arguments from other fans skdndndj sO GRAIN OF SALT THE SIZE OF RHODE ISLAND: )

Because yes yes absolutely! It would take serious work on Both sides for Jason to be brought back into the fold. They would both need to want it, and someone would have to be willing to bend on what they are ok with letting slide. Bruce would have to allow Jason his independence and divergence in philosophy; Jason would have to make concessions to Bruce's hard anti-murder stance.

There would have to be compromise, and reparations of some kind. They would have to actually talk and be able to listen. Apologies exchanged (mostly from Bruce because lmao) and a bunch of stuff people with the whole picture could probably tell me better lmao. ALL HARD ASKS

Because yes yes yes!! Jason's convictions and his beliefs ABSOLUTELY run deeper than his desire for acceptance. That's not-so-low-key the biggest obstacle for both him and Bruce in their ever reconciling. It's why Talia was able to manipulate him at all (idk the specifics of that, but details), it's why he hatched a deeply convoluted plan to get back at Bruce and the Joker and fuck over Black Mask in one fell swoop.

He wanted to confront Bruce with the consequences of letting Joker run around even after committing a deeply heinous and personal crime. Show him that taking a more intense and hands on approach and cracking down HARD on the crime families in Gotham would have more immediate results than what Bruce did. And that's not even getting into the Robin stuff yet lol

I don't personally agree per se with Jason's stance on murder and crime fighting lmao - but I also think he has a goddamn point, especially in this universe. In the world of batman, where death can be impermanent and supervillains pull all kinds of heinous, torturous bullshit, Jason has a lot of righteous and justified anger about how Bruce does things, on top of his hurt and betrayal over how both he and his death were treated.

Bruce's stance makes sense to me too, in a 'everyone deserves a second chance' and 'no one is beyond redemption' and 'its a slippery slope' perspective. But at some point you have to wonder about accountability. About what's acceptable. When the Joker is an unrepentant, murderous, sadistic criminal who has demonstrated that he cannot be adequately jailed or rehabilitated, what do you do? Do you ever give up on him? When is enough enough? Is the death penalty ever justifiable?

It's what makes Jason vs Bruce's arguments interesting and tragic to me, because from Jason's perspective, he is seeking retribution for himself as a victim. He is an avenger for victims failed by the system as it stands. And the system fails a lot of people. It needs to change. (And it's something being felt very strongly by a lot of people rn IRL which makes Jason's ideals v sympathetic.)

But from Bruce's perspective, Jason has given up. He has lost hope in the inherent goodness of people. He no longer seeks to find the good in people; he has decided that there exists instead a sharp dichotomy, that there is such thing as a bad person who deserves to die for what they've done, and for being bad. As opposed to seeing deeply injured people who need help, even when you find them repulsive. Rotten work, that.

Bruce sees the end of the path that Jason is on, and it's a bullet that Jason puts in his own brain - because if there are good people and bad people, and bad people deserve to die... won't Jason lump himself in with the bad people eventually? (I am once again standing on my 'Jason Todd wants to die on some level' soapbox)

Anyway, all this to say - there is a sharp divide in Bruce and Jason's methods/beliefs that makes their reconciliation impossible if neither of them is willing to budge. And when they both see budging as a terrible thing to do, a failure to the very people they are dedicating their lives to protecting...well.

It's gonna take a lot of angst and a lot of work.

#slsncjdk #that got longer than i intended #and i didn't even talk about everything i could have #don't get me started on the complicated feelings jason has about robin #both as a role and tim drake's sucession to it #and how that would feed into Jason's resentment of Bruce and the tapestry of failed accountability #because if Jason died as robin but he comes back and fuck all has changed - #theres still a kid running around gotham getting into truly dangerous situations and at risk of the same fucking thing jason died of #still a target for rogues who want to pull one over on batmam and have zero problems with killing and torturing a minor #and those rogues are STILL running around for that matter! so its even LIKELY. #its not the only problem jason has with Bruce upon coming back. but its a pretty big one. because what does that say? #both about jason and about his death. that his death didn't matter? that he's... replaceable? (*JAYTIM TROPE AIRHORNS*) #its an ugly and complicated relationship with ugly complicated problems. which is why its a) easy to misunderstand and b) so compelling #jason todd #dc #dc meta #THANK YOU TAURIA I LOVE HAVING AN EXCUSE TO TALK ABOUT IT #asked and answered #ladytauria

[lordwisteria]

Going off that “Jason Todd should be Catholic” post I reblogged....this is so ridiculously niche lol but I need to get it off my chest....Jason Todd is so Ronan Lynch coded

Traumatic reaction to violence that unexpectedly changed them forever, into darker and harder versions of themselves

Molten eyes and a smile made for war!!!

How do you live if you think you were maybe supposed to be dead?

How do you kill yourself again and again, even if it keeps you alive?

Just to get it out of the way yes Gansey died and came back but Jason and Gansey are like the least alike of anyone

Complicated relationship with a parent they once adored

Inexplicable magic that is difficult to explain and makes their lives harder (Like everything about Ronan/Jason coming back to life and the Pit)

General asshole who actually does care a lot

Cared the MOST about one person (Gansey) and slowly came to care about everyone else; fighting and clawing their way back into their own families

It is about RAGE and REGRET. FEAR and FORGIVENESS. It is BEING THE MONSTER AND ASKING FOR LOVE ANYWAY

Ok but. But but. Are there any other parallels? You could go the Lynch brothers route (Dick as Declan, Tim or Damian as Matthew, Bruce as a complicated and dead Niall whose obsessions killed him without considering what it would leave behind for his sons). But I think this really only considers the characters relationships with Jason, not who they are as a person. IF we are looking at who they are instead of their relationships (so yes this does not consider romantic/platonic/blahblah):

It would be easy to say Dick is Gansey. They have the same name, are ~leaders~, and are canonically the prettiest princess in any room. I get it and maybe in the Titans you'd be right, but here, Bruce is Gansey. He is the one with the quest! He is the one driving things forwards and bringing the others along. He's the one with the family name and the family wealth and the family home. He went through something traumatic as a child that irrevocably changed him, fueled his intense guilt and obsession. He brought the group together, and yet feels left behind by them. Someone who cares deeply about the people immediately around him, and yet will not stop pursuing his other goals even if it's hurting them or himself. Obsessed, I think, with proving that he deserves to be here.

Which means that Dick...is Adam Parrish. Like. The constant search for independence. The perfectionism. The bad relationship with his father that forced him to need to be his own man. (Sorry real Bruce but you sucked in batman #416) Loving someone so much and yet always thinking the worst of them. Refusing to be a burden and yet accepting any yoke that comes his way. The intensity of the performance, of pretending to be who you wish you were for the people you care about. Taking on responsibilities because there is literally no other choice, nothing else you could do. Picking the best of your options and knowing that none for them are to rest easy. Valuing freedom so much and giving up your literal body for the quest.

PLUS (less perfect but): Cass as Henry Cheng (and not just bc they are both asian do not look at me like that) Narrative outsider who was watching from afar and put themselves in the narrative. Was molded by shady parent's shady business practices. Was put in a situation as a child they should not have had to endure, which challenged their beliefs and shaped them anew. And maybe like, later Tim as Noah, a bright, fun, young kid on a skateboard who gets himself involved in something too big for him and is undeniably damaged by it. Tim isn't betrayed by someone the way Noah is, but he's kind of...betrayed by the narrative, in a way? Betrayed by the adventure that he thought he was getting. Too clever for his own good, but sometimes naive about people. Lowkey a mirror that lets people see whatever they want to see lol

(I don't see super clear parallels for anyone else lol but I did have a fun time with the thought of Damian as Blue (short/down to fight/has another family/environmentalist/kind of feels fundamentally alienated as someone who is not like everyone else/wears green))

#batfam #the raven cycle #this is so silly and i feel like these parallels are so based on my exact experience and yet also i feel them deep in my bones #meta #i guess if i did do this comparison with the titans #dick would be gansey #which would make jason helen LOL which is kinda of excellent by itself #but idk i just feel there could be something really interesting in an AU like this #it would need to be a same age AU lol but #maybe Dick is in a bad orphanage type thing like in robin annual #but without grown up bruce theres no one to get him out #bruce still saves him by being his friend though #dick and jason both have relationships with bruce and are suspicious of each other #but end up being super close by the end #I also feel Jason would throw Tim out a window which would be funny #dick grayson #jason todd #bruce wayne #tim drake #cass cain

[withacapitalp]

this got so long i'm sorry lol. that post about jonathan hurting steve just reminds me of my number one issue w steve and jonathan/nancy becoming closer which is that the onus is almost always placed on steve to make amends and take that first step w/little to no emphasis on that effort being reciprocated. like, steve apologizes to jonathan for everything in s1 (as he should) and saves his life twice. whether or not you think jonathan should apologize for how intense the fight got is up for debate (i would just like acknowledgement of how seriously he did/almost did hurt steve) but steve def deserves an apology for 1)the photos (which he never got - obv he broke the camera but then he also bought jonathan a new one all w no actual apology to steve on jonathan's part, it wasn't only nancy's privacy he invaded) 2) the fact that he slept w nancy knowing she and steve were still together (which he literally verbally acknowledges when nancy says she waited for him or w/e). that second one obv also goes for nancy bc she also doesn't apologize to steve for leading him on for a year while having feelings for someone else then cheating on him. this isn't me saying jancy are terrible ppl and entirely unsympathetic (nancy is obv v traumatized and struggling w barb's death tho this does not excuse the way she treated steve) but they both did some fucked up shit to steve that ppl rarely make them acknowledge or even feel bad for, which creates a v unbalanced dynamic imo.

Oh boy this did get long!!

So this might just be curating different fandom experiences, but I don't personally see a ton of Steve being the one who has to make amends in fandom or Jonathan and Nancy not having introspection on their pasts. In canon I totally see that though, and it's a lot. Like I think they're all just really human, which I love. They fuck up, and they mistrust, and they have to learn and grow into being close. It isn't automatic.

I think like.......here's my thought process. Apologies are nice. Apologies are good. The right thing to do is always to apologize if you feel like you've wronged someone.

But I also think Steve wouldn't accept it.

Okay I'm putting the rest under a read more because I'm going on a little meta rant on Steve Jonathan Nancy and why apologies are a complicated thing for them and ultimately not what any of them really need.

First Steve because he's my blorbo. Steve is a really interesting character. He has this veneer of extreme self confidence that hides a really soft core of a person that ultimately experiences a significant amount of rejection. He has this brittle exterior that's bitchy and snarky and gives as good as it gets, but things touch him in a deeper way that I think is easy for a lot of people to ignore. I could totally see Jonathan awkwardly trying to bring things up to maybe try and apologize only for Steve to be like nah man we're fine! It didn't work out no biggie, I'm aok, you guys work together and we didn't.

Steve is constantly searching for validation and love (Implied because his parents are neglectful or at the very least have an extremely bad marriage that would be enough to add layers to anything) I think that the bullshit conversation really impacted Steve in a significant way, but if he shared that, then he's leaving himself vulnerable to getting hurt again, so he would do everything in his power to truly make everyone think he's okay, even potentially making himself think he's okay too, when deep down he isn't.

I alsoooo don't really think that Nancy or Jonathan necessarily feel bad. If Steve is pushing so hard to say he isn't hurt, then eventually I could see them not thinking too hard on it. Jonathan because in canon they aren't really friends obviously (Which is a goddamn travesty by the way I wrote an entire series of fics because I hated that they weren't friends) and Nancy because Nancy is an extremely self focused person.

Not selfish. I think it's important to make the distinction between selfish and self-focused. I don't think she's intentionally doing things to hurt the people around her for her own gain, but she thinks about how things effect her and how things impact her first and foremost. Not even just with Steve, but with everyone. A good example of this is in season three when she cost Jonathan his job too with her sleuthing. Her boyfriend who is in a very bad financial situation at home and could have really used a job that actually pertained to his interests and might have lead to future relationships in his industry. She didn't feel bad about that, she was too focused on the injustice to her. Even something as simple as never knocking when he's in the dark room and ruining his pictures over and over.

She just doesn't think about other people, which makes sense! She's a teenager, she's a privileged person, and she's smart as all hell. She gets extremely focused on doing the 'right' thing (according to her rules and her mind because she knows she's smart and thinks she's the smartest in the room always) and she misses doing the best thing a lot of the time.

For Steve, someone who is clearly extremely not self focused-which is also not a great way to be because extremes never are- and Jonathan- Someone who has been forced to put his family first his entire life- that is always going to be a point of conflict in her relationships with them.

But I don't know if we've ever seen Nancy give a genuine apology in the show, and I honestly doubt we ever would. It's not in her character really. But! Regardless of all of that, apology isn't really the end goal. Saying your sorry shouldn't be the end of something. I would much rather see Nancy Steve and Jonathan grow into people with more empathy and ability to own up to their shit/call people out on their stuff in the future rather than rehashing their past again. Unfortunately I have a feeling season five is gonna be a lot of rehashing lmaoooo

#I actually have a WIP #That I was writing a lonnnnng ass time ago #with Nancy trying to apologize to Steve #not realizing she's kind of forcing him to hear her apology because she wants his forgiveness #not because she genuinely has remorse and wants to voice that #and Steve makes her stop apologizing to him by just saying okay I forgive you is that what you need to hear #and then she has a little oh fuck okay I really need to think on myself a bit moment #Steve harrington #Nancy wheeler #Jonathan byers #stoncy love triangle #character meta #st #stranger things #stranger things meta #anon #anonymous #ask #Liam speaks up

[jakowskis]

Day 15 - Are there any ships you dislike?

alrighty so. there are only rlly four i ‘dislike’, and the first three… it’s more complicated than anything, it’s not entirely utter pure-n-simple disdain. it’s less about the ships themselves (in two of the cases, anyway) and more about how they seem to be perceived by the fandom + how much they dominate everything. other ships exist, guys! the other characters exist! anyway ill try not to be mean but i am gonna be petty, lol

so for starters, yeah, jack x ianto. i have a very specific view of it, that i do enjoy, but the fandom seems to be doing something else entirely and i've developed some resentment despite myself. especially bc it’s overrated as fuck. don’t get me wrong, it’s iconic, as far as being culturally significant gay rep, but if im honest idk how well they hold up in 2024? i thought their relationship in s1 and s2 of the show was lackluster at best. poorly written bread crumbs. and yeah i know it was big for 2006 but im just personally kind of offended that they could show them sucking face but not show the intricacies of why the hell ianto would fall for a guy who shot his girlfriend down?? like, their relationship is inherently dark and angsty to me and im interested in exploring that, bc the show certainly doesn’t (initially) bother to, and a lot of the fan content i see is either fluffy (??????????), or angsty in a Tragique way, or is just kind of… fetishy and whumpy? people slot them into a Specific Kind of Dynamic and it grosses me tf out. so the fandom culture rubs me wrong, and then it’s just… such a bummer to like owen and tosh and gwen in a fandom that only seems to prioritize this one ship. there are 22k fics in the torchwood ao3 tag, and 13k of them are janto. now, all that being said… they do intrigue me and endear me, just a bit. but it took the audios to make me give a fuck about them, which is sad. 

on that same note - i have the same relationship with tosh x owen, but i'm significantly less fond of it, cuz it just plain rubs me wrong. i like them in theory, so i spent months trying to figure out how to make them work and what other people are seeing that they think is so endearing and cute - i just can't find it. owen's treatment of tosh is just about the only thing i can't stand about him. he treats everyone poorly, but most of the rest of the cast defends themself (or even hit back, like ianto and gwen, and thats why i ship them with him! it’s spicy! i love balanced unhealthy dynamics in fiction hfdsjkf i can’t lie) - but tosh just lets him, creating an unhealthy power imbalance where she’s just getting hurt over and over again, and it makes me wanna fucking punch him cuz she does Not deserve that. i want him far away from her lmao. except under certain circumstances, cuz i have written fic about them, and i’ve read like three rlly good ones (and the main link between them is tosh stands up for herself and puts him in his place! i HATE how he walks all over her in canon ughhhhhhhhh). additionally, i do admittedly enjoy the angst of their canon arc. i just think fandom throwing them together and making it cutesy is lazy, uncreative, and an injustice to both characters. i think the SHOW throwing them together was an injustice to both characters, especially tosh’s. they're tragic and compelling, ill give them that, but theyre not sweet, and i don't think they'd be good for each other. 

(also worth noting on a show where everyone has tension w each other, imo barrowman & gareth and naoko & burn pull it off the least convincingly and have little to no chemistry. like every other duo just kind of sparks in some way or another, and neither of those duos do. which SUCKS bc they’re the canon ones. but it’s also heavily poor writing like they were doing the best w what they had. grr. like i still dont know what the fuck ianto likes about jack or what tosh likes about owen 😭 that’s ridiculous!)

the other ship i’m petty about is jack x john hart. i just think it’s far too popular for what it is. idek why that is, do we have a substantial amount of buffy fans in the fandom? don’t get me wrong, i liked john in the show + i liked their relationship as well, but i'll always be annoyed when a minor character gets more attention than the fascinating main ones. 

and lastly i hate john x ianto, because i respect ianto, lmao. i can’t lie, if he was my fav i’d probs ship it HJFKDSHFK i love putting my favs in awful situations. but as is it just grosses me out. get him outta there!! 

tldr: i don’t interact w the john hart side of the fandom, and if a fic is tagged 'jack/ianto tosh/owen gwen/rhys' i probably won’t read it 😷

#tdot #txt #i feel meannn fdshfjkd #idk how tumblr search works anymore i RLLY hope this doesnt go in any tags cuz im not interested in hurting ppl's feelings u kno #i dont wanna be smth negative in another person's fandom experience #lord knows i block owen haters HJKFSD cuz it bums me out to see so #but! yeah these r my thots n opinions

[im-smart-i-swear]

If funky guys had become paladins of voltron which one would be in which Lion?

back in the VERY early days of this whole au(like. buddys-name-was-still-ryou early) i wanted to base every clones personality/character on a diffrent lion.... but over time it slowly stopped fitting their personalities and i kinda abandoned the concept lol. though you can still see some remnants of that in . certain design choices...

going back to this concept after uhhh two years?? i think? was definetely interesting! all the characters changed WILDLY since then and i tried to re-assign the lions to fit the changes........ it was surprisingly hard

i couldnt for the life of me decide in a few cases, so instead im just gonna give the most suitable options lol

tashi & soup - im putting these two together beacuse- and i have NO IDEA how that would work- theyre copiloting the black lion! they function the best as a duo and separating them would NOT be a good idea in a situation as stressful and complicated as piloting voltron. they barely manage to keep everyone alive on a good day... also picking only one of the two as The Leader just feels wrong

buddy, ideally, would like to stay as FAR AWAY from voltron as psyhically possible, thank you very much- but nothing in this cruel world is ideal, so they get the red lion:) i actually have this whole story idea where basically stickbug ""goes rouge""(like. some sort of 'sleeper agent mode' left over by haggar gets activated by accident??) and runs away to do some evil shit so buddy goes after him(on a whim)(alone)(without telling the others) and while searching for him they bump into fUCKING VOLTRON- so they form a very uneasy truce until they find stick. and at some point buddy finds out he can pilot the red lion! its awful he hates it:/ he pilots anyway cause his loved one is in danger(this whole thing is way too complicated to talk about here lol)

i had A LOT of problems figuring out the last three..... they changed so much that i just cant rlly fit them into these categories anymore... but i tried!!

ORIGINALLY stickbug was supposed to be based on the green lion but he doesnt fit it as well anymore....... i think taks does pretty well tho! shes very bold and iquisitive and a pain in everyones ass<3 plus loves learning about diffrent planets' unique ecosystems n stuff. stick IS very curious and likes exploring so he still kinda fits? but hes not as forward as taks, so yeahhhh im very torn on this one

i have NO FUCKING CLUE what to do with blue. all three of em could propably fit there ngl....

yellow could either be taka or stickbug- taka is the youngest and the brightest, hes what brought all of them together in the first place(it takes a village to raise a child)....... buuuut hes not really a 'puts the needs of others above his own' kind of person? hes still a kid and NOT ready for that kind of responsibility. soup is an OBVIOUS choice here of course, but im not sure- honestly, the more i think about it, the more stickbug starts to feel like the best option here? ok hear me out: stickbug, for most of his life, had very little power over his life. even while with the funky guys(ESPECIALLY in the beggining, these bozos were dysfuctional as fuck) there were moments when the others would talk over him bc 'hes a kid', and even without that theres still his people pleasing problem wnich meant he often disregarded his own good to make other ppl content. so, taking this scrawny guy desperate for control over his life and putting him in the toughest, stongest, most resilient lion- basically i think he deserves to go a little apeshit. as a treat. let him wreck shit for once

honestly it kinda funny im stting here and calculating all of this like a mad man where IN THE ACTUAL SHOW the paladins switch the lions like pokemon cards

realistically speaking i think they would all trade and switch em a lot and then squabble over who gets to pilot yellow bc they ALL want to wreck shit sometimes:)

#thank you for asking!! #i know it took me a while to answer lol #but i did it!!! yippie!!!! #ask #my funky guys #i feel like i dont talk enough about how dysfunctional this family is sometimes...... they love each other and theyre working on it!! theyr #all trying!! #but after everything theyve been through OF COURSE theyre not doing well..... #no family is prefect and ESPECIALLY if they went through so much shit as these guys #i know i mostly talk about how wholesome and caring they all are(and they ARE) but that doesnt mean they dont have a lot of problems also #and thats okay. shit happens sometimes y'know? what matters is that they make the effort to change and grow #its messy and complicated and Not Fun sometimes tho- love is never easy....... #im propably going to go into more detail about the whole 'buddy teams up with voltron to get stickbug back' thing someday cause MAN i have #a ton of thoughts on that one #i dont have the energy to explain All That rn.........

[sexybabystevie]

Just saw your post about b/ler and their stans hating on everyone and I have to agree.

Like, I don't mind discussing little theories, but the way they go about things it's super annoying. Like the whole blue meets yellow in the west shit like that was a thing for scoops. idk why you make it about b/ler. Or saying Mike dressed up in yellow at the airport for Will when El's favorite color is also yellow. When they complain about other characters having screentime, I have to laugh because they manage to make anything about that ship anyway, so it shouldn't matter so much in the end. They act like this ship is the foundation of the show when Will is barely a real character because he doesn't even have a personality other than the gay kid who disappeared. And the fandom hardly develops his character because his relationship with Mike is the only thing they talk about. (And before ppl complain, other characters are underdeveloped as well, but I don't put them on a pedestal and call them the main character of the show like they do with Will)

Their treatment of El in all of this is the most upsetting part. Similar to Steve, she isn't allowed to be hurt or upset if others do something (aka r/nance, b/ler). Like they should all be super supportive allys, and if they are upset, they are deemed as homophobic or terrible friends.

I think the saddest part what i've read about b/ler was people insisting that Mike never loved El and had always feelings for Will, which is so cruel? In general, making m/leven important to Mike is not a thing in the b/ler fandom because they don't want Mike to be bi, which idk what the problem is with that. I just think they are scared that Mike is still interested in girls is threatening their ship or whatever.

Anyway, what I also hate when discussing b/ler is that they simply make El a lesbian in order so she doesn't feel bad instead of letting her deal with complicated feelings. Like in s4, Mike's inability to say he loves her clearly upsets El, meaning she does have feelings for Mike that are beyond a friendship level. It's also weird that they take away El's agency and reduce her to this abused child who doesn't know about anything so she shouldn't be in a relationship because she can't know what love is. (Ignoring s2 and her learning throughout the tv about the world and feelings and making her own decision regarding that part.) If we go that route non of the kids should know about love bc they are all traumatised and fucking 14 lol. And then they break up lumax so Max and El are together and everyone is happy? (Forgetting about Lucas) Also, idk crossdating within a friend group is so messy, but people just take the complicated parts out.

Also, what I found not discussed enough is the Will and El relationship. Like yes, Will likes Mike, but El is his sister. He also loves her. And tbh I think he would have reservations about dating his sisters ex-boyfriend because he cares about her. Maybe El gives them their blessing, but Will would know that she's hurting, so he might not follow through because he values the sibling bond with El more.

In general, I hate when there are ships that have to be so clean and liked by every character that is around. They don't exist in a vaccum, other people esp those who have close relationships with the people in those ships (ex-partners, best friends, siblings etc) might have negative reactions to it which is fine. That doesn’t mean they are homophobic it means they feel betrayed by a friend or sibling who dates their ex they loved for a very long time.

I like the theory of b/ler, but people take out the complexities that come with the ship. And then when you point them out, you're the worst person on earth, and your fave deserves to die. (esp Steve)

(Sorry, this is long. You don't have to answer. I just needed to vent a bit)

oh my gosh, no worries at all about this being on the longer side of asks! i don't mind at all and actually really like talking about this stuff and you brought up so many good points! since this is longer, though, i'm gonna put my thoughts under the cut <3

firstly, the theories CAN be fun. emphasis on can because they aren't anymore. b/lers make it clear that you pretty much have to agree with every single point they make, treating every single detail as canon rather than a theory, and it's exhausting. some of the ones i read a while back were genuinely interesting and fun! but when you take away the actual idea of it being a theory and just insist upon it being the truth, then going as far to call other people who don't agree/who are skeptical stupid or homophobic or some other name they come up with, then it makes people not want to interact with you.

i'm gonna be really honest here and say that i think all this stuff about blue and yellow is really ridiculous. i mean, they're quite literally colors. not saying there's no literary meaning to colors, but implying that every time we see blue and yellow in the show is some secret b/ler symbolism is just... so bizarre. (again, this could have been a fun little thing, but they take everything SO seriously and are such negative people that any amount of enjoyment is immediately stripped away just because you can't even have a civil disagreement with them without getting accused of being homophobic or without getting loads of anon hate.)

you said "When they complain about other characters having screentime, I have to laugh because they manage to make anything about that ship anyway, so it shouldn't matter so much in the end." and THANK YOU for wording that so well. this is what i've been trying to say for a while now, but i couldn't word it correctly. b/lers go out and make every single hint of foreshadowing, every single character and their personalities or arcs all about mike and will (because they for some reason are convinced this show is just a massive great love story for the two of them, and to that i have to say that this show has an ensemble cast. the other characters will and SHOULD have their own personalities, arcs, etc, that do NOT tie into b/ler) so why should it be a problem that a character is gaining popularity? if everything really is about b/ler like they claim then it should be no big deal to assume that this completely unrelated character exists entirely for the sake of your ship, right? it's honestly ridiculous.

also, yeah, will is barely even a character. he barely has any screentime that's spent creating his character, despite the fact that i think he's an essential point to the show. he's more of a plotline than a person, and i think blaming anyone other than the duffers for that makes no sense. fictional characters don't write themselves??

as for treatment of el, i made a post forever ago the parallels between steve and el as characters, and i think that goes for here too. they're both essential characters at this point, they're heroes, but even still b/lers treat both of them terribly. with el, it's pushing her to the side, dehumanizing her in a very ableist way, etc, and with steve, its much the same. dehumanizing, pushing him to the side, not allowing either of these characters to have feelings about their best friends/close friends dating their exes, and its just not realistic and its also weird. to enjoy a ship is one thing, but to push it onto everyone else and actively hate on other people who don't like it (which, by the way, you literally do not have to have "valid reason" to dislike a ship. you can just not like/hate it and that should be fine!!!) is immature and exhausting.

interestingly enough, i think b/lers mainly view el and steve the same way - an "overrrated" character, probably some part of why they hate the "general audience"/"fanservice", and, interestingly, i think there's also this idea that they're both basic in some way. like, steve is the "basic" straight white guy (idk why there's anything wrong with that??) and el is either a misinformed, confused lesbian or a pathetic straight girl too and its... so exhausting as well because characters can be queer without having to be mike and will!!! (and in the view of el they can also be queer without breaking up other important ships just for the sake of b/ler??) the amount of times i see people say that people are homophobic for having steve or el as their favorites is just... why? like, going on some kind of homophobia-yelling witch hunt isn't going to make anyone like you or your ship that you're so heavily promoting.

and with mike, i've seen some people (the more tolerable ones, i think) say he's bi while others insist he has no attraction to girls whatsoever, and i don't know, i think people read into it too much just to go and discredit el's relationship with him. if they can go and say, "oh, their relationship wasn't important to mike OR el so now we win!!" then they can convince themselves that b/ler is endgame, everything is happy for them, there are no problems, etc, which, again, is unrealistic. breakups are messy even if both parties were not to feel romantically about the other, and especially when you're gonna go and date someone in your group again. like, i've personally seen situations like that entirely destroy friend groups, time and time again, but let's ignore that for the sake of b/ler!

(also side point that goes along with what you're saying - they're literally 14!! i think so many people forget that since the actors look older or whatever, but like... they're children.)

the will and el relationship is always ignored and never talked about because it doesn't fit in the b/ler agenda (unless they assume that el is a lesbian and therefore doesn't care about will going on to date mike). which honestly is a shame because i love their dynamic but i also would rather not hear thoughts about that from b/lers anyway, but regardless it's a major plothole in their plans that they all just totally ignore because the only solutions to it are severely out of character.

i honestly don't think there's anything wrong with shipping m/leven or b/ler, if you're not insane about it. the b/lers heavily despise people who ship mike and eleven and go on to call them homophobic (are we sensing a trend here?) or whatever else, and i honestly haven't seen enough m/leven shippers here to know what they're doing so i won't put words into their mouth or whatever. either way, there's this general distaste and shunning that happens of anyone who doesn't like b/ler or ships something else and i'm personally so tired of it. i don't ship either of these because i just don't care that much (and also these people ruined it for me) but shipping m/leven does not make you inherently homophobic, and shipping b/ler does not automatically make you annoying in the way that most of them are.

now that i've kinda covered your thoughts, i want to add a few more points of my own that i think of every time this situation arises.

one, i think a large chunk of the toxicity of the b/ler community comes down to the fact that they worship the ground the duffers walk on. and this is a general thing that a lot of people and some of the media do, where they dramatize how good the show is and hype it up to be some untouchable, perfect series, which is far from the truth. they're convinced the duffers are on their side (b/ler endgame) and thus can do no wrong. (also a very weird way to act when they go and hate every other character CREATED by the duffers - but oh no! they didn't do it because they wanted to or because they like other characters too, it's all because of the general audience and how they just fuck everything up!!).

which, this is just setting them all up for failure. no one is getting this perfect dream of an ending, and i think if anyone knows this, it's the steve fans. we are painfully aware of the fact that our fave will either die or will have some shitty ending that none of us want, and b/lers are on the other side of the spectrum where they think everything will end perfectly for them, and you're just setting yourself up for colossal disappointment. every little hidden clue or theory that you've come up with is not going to be true, every bit of "foreshadowing" isn't going to pan out, and that's just a fact. the duffers simply are not as good as these people want to think lol.

secondly, i think the treatment of el and steve is also very similar in the viewing of their love triangles. there's st/ncy vs j/ncy and m/leven vs b/ler, and in both of these situations, everything is always one person's fault when people don't get their way - el and steve. if j/ncy happens and steve's fine with it, then people have to talk about how shitty of a boyfriend he supposedly was. if j/ncy happens and steve's upset, then it's on him for, again, being shitty and "deserving" to be alone. if st/ncy happens then it's steve's fault for having feelings or being a popular character or some other bullshit that makes no sense. and in the case of el, will and mike, it's the same. b/ler happens and el's upset, it's her fault for caring about her boyfriend. b/ler happens and el isn't upset, it's her fault for NOT caring. m/leven happens, then el is primarily the problem because SHE loves mike and cares about mike and "only gets all these things because she is a popular character."

overall, it's just pointing fingers, making excuses, and acting like babies 24/7 until they cry enough to get their way, honestly.

#em speaks #stranger things #asks #dear anons #this could genuinely be an essay what is wrong with me lmao #stranger things fandom crit #stranger things critical #idk the tags for this. i know the ones i SHOULDNT use so im not using them lmao

[vacantgodling]

Question, what is Darren and Lizette's relationship like 👀

hiiiiiii :D

darren’s relationship with liz is like. super weird ngl.

liz is a very pragmatic person. she’s headstrong, stubborn, a bit callous and can be slightly stuck up about things. she’s not necessarily a prim and proper type, she’s more than unafraid to get her hands dirty, but she does come from a generally wealthy family and is an extremely powerful vampire at that. she’s used to getting her way, to being independent and doing things on her own. that’s why this whole scenario (the plot generally) was really fuck-y for her bc she’s not used to not being in control and she’s not used to relying on other people. which does bite her in the ass, A LOT. however, one of the things that estel & max especially will note is that liz was much softer and more emotionally aware around dave. dave was always the voice of reason and could calm her tempers and brought out that caring side of her that she doesn’t openly show. she’s not really an openly affectionate person but she was with dave. he really taught her what love could feel like? yes love is fierce and protective and uncompromising, but it’s also soft and gentle and emotionally available. she never really had that until dave. so, when she tells darren:

“I wanted to be one, once.” She whispered. “For you.”

she really meant that. she never thought she could be a mother but dave made her realize that with him, as a team, not only could she be but she wanted to be. (it’s a trend among her and her siblings tbh, though only laurent gets actually fulfilled in this manner pff). but “duty calls” and she wasn’t around. she feels guilty for abandoning him but she doesn’t know him so it’s hard to figure out where to start building a relationship. she doesn’t excuse her actions but she doesn’t really apologize for them either? bc at the end of the day, to her, isn’t it justified that she was away to protect him? that he’s still around, isn’t that penance enough?

and what frustrates darren the most is he understands where she’s coming from. it’s… overly complicated to him and he (like dave; he inherited a Lot of his personality and reasoning from dave) doesn’t think that things had to happen this way. he thinks she should’ve done something else, that she should’ve told dave the real reason why she left, she could’ve communicated with max and estel that someone was threatening her (they would’ve taken care of it immediately ngl the two of them are ride or die for her), she could’ve let someone help her. but she didn’t. and while dave can’t really bring himself to be upfront with liz about how hurt he was, darren can. bc not only does he have no real attachment to liz bc he doesn’t know her, he also loves his dad, AND he inherited liz’s confrontational attitude. darren is very different from his younger half-brother vlad, who has a level of hero worship and reverence for liz that darren doesn’t share. i KNOW there’s gonna be a conversation at some point where darren tells liz that they got into this mess because she was too proud. she’s too proud to admit that she’s not strong enough to do everything on her own and that fucks with her ngl.

darren doesn’t hate her though, it’s not really possible for him even at the bare minimum bc he knows his dad loves her. but he isn’t really willing to take her shit like everyone else has and does lol. not even bc he’s mad that she wasn’t there like when darren says he and dave were fine on their own he meant it. but so many other people got hurt because of her ego. she didn’t deserve to deal with the shit that she went through but like deadass she didn’t have to do it alone she just chose to and that pisses him off lol. sure, certain things wouldn’t have happened if she hadn’t: darren wouldn’t have met olice and dave wouldn’t have adopted her, vlad would’ve never been born, he would’ve had a mother in his life. but that doesnt change the fact that this was, in the grand scheme of things, unnecessary.

so. tl;dr liz feels guilty but not enough to apologize and darren feels angry but not enough to hate her. when it doesn’t delve into deep discussions like this though the two of them have similar senses of humor and darren learns a lot from her about a lot of things. but when you get into the weeds their relationship is gonna be complex for a long ass time.

good thing they have time!

#thanks for the ask this is a huge ramble #but Them #s: darren and co #ren analysis

[banghwa]

though i'm sad that so many armys treat hoseok like this and geneally ignore him most of the time, sometimes i think, well he doesn't need them. he needs fans who actually like his music and appreciate his art and he doesn't need armys who don't like hip hop pretending they like jitb and force themselves to stream it. i hate some "ot7 armys"' hypocrisy SO much but well i actually think that even though hoseok has less fans, the majority of the ones who truly do love him are mature enough to appreciate what he does and love him for what he does and not just his looks or personality. his looks and personality are just a wonderful bonus but i really think most hoseok stans truly adore him for his music and it's not always the case with bts i think. he has less delusional shippers for fans and maybe it's reflected in the charts but well, maybe it's good for him actually. let the fake ot7 armys secretely hate him and be miserable when he gets better and better at what he does and gains everyone's respect and admiration. if some people don't appreciate him, their loss. i wish they stopped pretending though and finding reasons to justify their stance but oh well. anyway hoseok performing at times square soon so true

ok but this!! this is how i feel to despite all the complaining ive been doing lol. like yeah it will never stop disappointing me the way armys treat hoseok BUT…..i see the way jimins or jungkooks or taehyungs popularity translates into how armys talk about or view them. even their own stans treat them like one-dimensional dolls basically. yes its sucks that in midst of the power hungry chart focused content factory that hybe has become that hoseok got put on the sidelines in favour of “shippeable members”. but i will take that any day over the bizarre fetishist glorifying treatment maknae line especially get. and this isn’t to say i think maknae line are just “the shippeable members” or lacking integrity or anything i think that’s unfortunately the way a lot of their fans see them which sucks bcs its gross and what the hell are they supposed to do with that? what happens when they start making their own music and it has nothing to do with the “safe” generic fanservice their fans expect from them? like yes hoseok is still really popular in the grand scheme of things but you’re so right ive yet to see ppl talk about him the way they do with other members at least in a way that is that normalized. and that means he not only has gotten to experiment with his music throughout the years and slowly find what jhope means to him and not necessarily to the fans, but it also means that what he does put out there gets appreciated by people who actually give a shit about the stories he tells. im not gonna pretend hoseok doesn’t care about charts at all, obviously its more complicated than that, but at the very least the hard work he puts into his music doesn’t get relegated to some playlist to be played while you sleep with the sole goal of being able to hold some sort of achievement over a blinks head on twitter. he deserves better than that methinks!

#you’re so right exactly!!!! the bright side rly is bright at least :’) #💌 #anonymous

[seraphtrevs]

Possibly controversial take, but I think Kim in BCS is what the writers of Game of Thrones wished they wrote with Dany's arc. A woman who has been shaped by her background to have that strong and kind of merciless sense of justice, who wants to help the poor and downtrodden, but slowly comes to see herself as the only arbiter of right and wrong, and becomes convinced that she gets to punish those who deserve it cruelly.

Only when Game of Thrones did it, it sucked, because D&D hate women and the idea of challenging the status quo

I don't think that's controversial - that's an interesting point! I don't think that the comparison is completely apt (but I don't think that's what you were saying, either) - Dany kills a lot more people and has a lot more power, and the world she lives in demands violence from her and also looks to her as a legal arbiter of justice as a queen. But yes, the arc of a character starting off as genuinely righteous (freeing slaves, etc.) gradually losing sight of what motivated her and instead giving in to more personal vendettas is along the same lines. And of course it goes without saying that Dany's arc instead became an exercise in misogyny as well as completely nonsensical - thank god we have Gilligould instead of D&D. Kim's descent has been really interesting to watch because she genuinely believes in obtaining justice for the underpriveledged. Compare that to Walt's motives for "providing for his family," which is explicitly shown to be insincere very early in the series when he refuses Elliot and Gretchen's help. I think you'd have to do some pretty fancy mental gymnastics to claim that Kim's motives to help the unfortunate are self-serving (but I'm sure people are finding a way - after all, she is a woman and therefore 50x more guilty and 50x less sympathetic than male characters). The point of Kim's arc is that there are no good reasons to take justice into your own hands, even if you think you're being clever about it and it isn't "really" going to hurt anyone. There's never a good reason to hurt other people for your own sense of righteousness, and it can have consequences beyond what you intend. Since I love tragedy and complicated female characters, I'm loving her arc (which again, everyone SAYS female characters should get the chance to be as complicated and morally gray as male characters, but the moment a woman character does anything unsympathetic, she gets punted into the utterly and irredeemably eeeeeeevil/unsympathetic pile immediately, even if her misdeeds aren't on the same scale as the male characters. See also Shiv from Succession). Kim is a morally gray character. Her motives to help the helpless are just; her motives to humiliate Howard are not. Mike also got an innocent bystander murdered in his quest to take justice into his own hands when he went after Hector's truck, unintentionally getting the Good Samaritan who stopped to help the driver killed. Just like Kim, Mike did not intend on getting anyone killed - he was quite pleased with himself that his plan was victimless. He even left Hector's driver alive, although surely he must have known Hector would kill him, which he did. The result of his scam had a body count of two. It has never been controversial to continue to find Mike sympathetic the way it apparently is for Kim. Part of that is we didn't know Mike's victims the way we knew Howard (because if Howard is Kim's victim, then we must also consider the Good Samaritan and Hector's driver as Mike's victims), but just because we didn't know the Good Samaritan doesn't make Mike's actions morally superior to Kim's. It just means we don't find them as upsetting. (That's not even mentioning his murder of Werner, an innocent person, who Mike killed on purpose even though he knew it was wrong, but it's not an apt Kim comparison because she hasn't deliberately pulled the trigger on anyone, at least not yet.)

Sorry that kind of went off the rails lol. Back to your original point - I think that if we ever get more GRRM books, Dany's arc will look more similiar to Kim's, although obviously on a different scale. (My hot take - the ASoIaF books are good even if the show is garbage!)

#kim wexler #better call saul #bcs spoilers #asks

[tiffanylamps]

Hi! I hope you're doing okay. I have questions, ermm

I dont remember which fic of yours it was but there was a moment where Jae Yi and Ji Hwa were ignoring each other and DS found it odd but later on when jy was pouring alcohol for jh, they made eye contact and blushed?! And ds was like "Ah..so thats what it was" IS IT WHAT I THINK IT IS

If so, I think it wud be more adequate if u added more moments!! 🥺/built on their storyline

And also, in one of your analyses, ("How was JW in the one year time skip") you mentioned how it could be possible that JW relied on his one and only family member Hyuk extremely for all his suffrages- and even made a romantic bond... .. .

I got suddenly interested in that ship and- i was wondering if you were writing anything Juwon x Hyeok?? Im srsly so interested and i wanna see how they would be together

Just imagine, hyeok taking care of juwon 🥺

Hey friend, I'm dying from the extremely unnecessary heat wave in the UK at the moment (we've been told to stay indoors lol). But I'm okay, thank you for asking.

I hope all is well with you, as well!

Ah, yes, I was waiting for someone to pick up on this. You're talking about chap 2 of By Desire. I wrote that with the intention of leaving it up to interpretation: it could be a sweet moment between friends or something a bit more (but why would anyone want it to be platonic??? let's be real here). I have a few ideas for these wonderful ladies that I'm going to include but they aren't the main focus of the story, so keep that in mind.

(look at one of my favourite lesbians and her queer gf. Seriously, the only person good enough for either Jae Yi or Ji Hwa is each other. No one else can match up)

Okay!! So, Joo Won and Hyuk. They're a guilty pleasure of mine. I love their dynamic; like, what did Hyuk do to make Joo Won give him puppy eyes and call him "Hyung"?? I love the complications in their history and their relationship. I love that Joo Won is always second-guessing him BUT he trusts Hyuk so much. Joo Won thinks in transactions- he doesn't see the value of genuine bonds and yet... Hyuk is allowed to have drinks with Joo Won, he's allowed in his apartment, he's (sometimes) allowed to touch him; he's also allowed to do Joo Won favours!! That is huge- Joo Won allowing himself to be indebted to anyone!

Hyuk is always trying to force a family dynamic (and the straight agenda onto Joo Won... so funny), which Joo Won rejects (like all the time). Which... okay, I know why Joo Won does that but I'm also allowed to think: what if it were gay? (what if the reason jw doesn't want to see hyuk in a brotherly way is bc of silly complicated feelings that first surfaced when they were younger and only come back once jw's life is burst into flames??? That's an interesting story. I would read that) Joking aside, it's my second favourite ship. There are 10/10 stories out there (even a Joo Won/Kwon Hyuk/Dong Sik one that is SO good). I have written some stuff for Joo Won and Hyuk. I have this big scene that was going to be a part of a (hopefully) future fic (if I ever get round to writing it) but I cut it out because it complicated the story. But I've kept it because it's a great scene and deserves its own storyline.

Hyuk is going to go grey early because of how much he's had to take care of our silly hjw. But he loves being needed and wanted by the Han family, so he'll always be there.

So, tl;dr: yes, I have written some stuff but it's not ready for public viewing... (and may never be)

Thank you for your questions. I'm so grateful for the time you take to speak to me :)

#answered #beyond evil fanfiction #i'll make everyone a part of the community. watch me. #you get a queer storyline #and you get a queer storyline #i'm like oprah

[mirtifero]

OC TIME!!! (almost forgot a tw: abuse , suicide mention and drug addictions)

Added a read more because this is huge sorry

K so dude fucking hell I hate drawing Henry. Litrally how the FUCK can I even draw him??? "Ethereal beauty" i write on the story, having no clue how tf I can draw that. He's like... a blond twink, Dorian Gray like. What am I supposed to do here.

In case u dont know Henry: he's an usamerican that is currently studying aboard in Brazil (where the story is at) and he's a perfect person. He's innocent, kind, smart, strong, pretty... he's everythjng. Thing is, he's actually a piece of shit (woah!). Since hw was a child, he used his appearance to deceive peopl3 to get things. He'd hurt other children and start crying because the blame would be passed to them. He was always praised as some sort of angel and so, some sort of angel he is.

The story is by the end of the third year of high school (senior year), and about the insecurities of Hector blah blah I won't go into detail rn. Henry is not really a villain of the story... but he is not one of the good guys either... hes p evil lol. "What does he do?" in the story, he basically is there for money, bc he knows that the school he's in is from a poor location and full of, guess what, possible drug addicts. He goes for all the 3 protagonists (ok theres only 1 protg but these 2 r also v important).

Hector he kinda fails to get to him but he does convince him for a good time that he was inhumane and that he simply shouldn't exist, so he should just deal with it and hide it otherwise everyone would hate him. But Henry wouldn't, he'd keep his "dirty secret of being unnatural". He fails to get to the bit he actually sells him drugs lol bc Hector sees what hes doing bc one of his victims was his friend. Both of them actually. (Explained this one kinda badly byt its because he mostly failed lol Hector already thought this abt himself before Henry even met him)

Marcos is more simple, I think. Henry just threats to out him. Not directly, it's more complicated. Marcos is this very "heterotop" kind of guy, he's a fucking himbo. He's stupid, no one likes him, he already was a cigarette addict before he met Henry, he's basically pathetic. The only person who just... tolerated him, was Hector. He puts this strong and though persona just because he thinks he'll have more friends with it, but he's a very emotional guy. Okay back to Henry, Marcos fell in love with him, because *woah!* he's gay(!). He secretly confesses to him and is very visibly terrified of anyone else knowing. Henry sees him and goes "oh well easy money". So besides just pretty much "kindly" demanding constant cash or gifts (most of which Marcos can't even afford), he basically makes Marcos believe he, well, does't deserve that love, and is a disgusting human being for thinking anyone could ever love him. He basically offers "free" drugs to Marcos. "Free" because he asks for absurd amounts of payment later. As Marcos is Hector's... only friend for a good time, and even if Hector is bad at emotions(tm), he DOES realize something is fucked up and that's why he doesn't fall for Henry's shenanigans.

Okay! Last one is more simple because she's a newer character, her name is Sofia! Sofia is more insecure about........ well, to simply put, being a woman. She feels like she could never be a woman in the way she is, and that she is too "bland" and "unemotional" for all of that. She is very pressured by her family to be perfect, and a kind emotional good lady who can play violin and be amazing. She feels odd and all of that adds to the fact that she is of very strong asian ancestry, which makes her feel like she "stands out too much" around everyone else. She's, differently from Hector, incredibly suicidal too. There' a lot of parallels between her and Hector, (that lead to moments like "I'm nothing like you" etc) but that's not relevant rn. Thing s basically that Henry made her persue a relationship with Hector, because that woud "fix" her, knowing very damn well it wouldn't work and it'd make the situation worse. When it doesn't work he just makes her believe that, well, then, she really is useless and deserving of nothing. He basically puts a little teather of pity and offers her his products but she, although very sensible and unable to barely talk, she sees though Henry's plans, pushes him to the floor nd runs away. She disappears from school for some time, but she's okay.

Okay then -- what about it? What happens to Henry when these people realize what he did to them and many other people who just were unable to get him punished for his actions?

They fucking steal his money lol. They steal EVERYTHING they can get. Henry freaks out and gets really aggressive and irrational, ends up ruining his entire reputation from freaking out like that, call of of them slurs nd well... yeah, everything is ruined for him. His reputation and his money were everything he had, and they stole it.

That's not the main plot but AAAA I LOVE IT SOOO MUCH. Itz real fun to think abt and I spent hours writing this mess here. I love Henry, he's the worst human being ever, and I find that amszjng. It's probably kinda hard to understad why he's one of my favorite ocs because of me sucking at describing things (I'm better at just. Writing than telling akjaks) but yeah!!! Hope someone read this lol.

Edit: FORGOT TO MENTION!! Yeah, his themes are very obvious. It's probably very easy to tell what I was going for here, what I was angry about when I made this, but I still love it a lot, because it envolves a lot of things :3

#void #mirti’s writing rambling #Mirti's ocs

[latinozevran-archive]

man... do not know if i have ever made a post abt this at all period in over a year of sgrsposting but i am thinking abt.. parenthood 😔 like such a big theme and central aspect obviously but i rly do not think i have ever written abt it before... thinking abt the scene with miyokichi holding konatsu and just saying im sorry im so sorry im sorry and i think that apology is directed to more than just konatsu but she is at the center of it and the pivotal moment there of course is how much that infuriates baby konatsu and fuels what happens next but never not once is she blamed by the narrative for the death of her parents. it is never positioned as her mistake or the result of her failure to forgive her mother and the event is so severely traumatic she forgets it altogether--including her mom asking for her forgiveness and her refusal. and kikuhiko was a terrible dad lol but he never ever ever tells her it is her fault and he dedicates his entire bad parenting scheme towards making her think it was all his fault akdjfhfhjf which was not exactly a father of the year award worthy move either but is also indicative of the fact that he truly didnt blame her at all and again thinking abt how in those last moments he is just clinging onto baby konatsu for dear life covering her eyes to protect her and in a scene where she is entirely absent the first time around she is suddenly at the center of it all as the most important thing to all three of them completely recontextualizing the story...

and i think it is just so fascinating u know for a story about family and trauma and dysfunction where forgiveness is absolutely a central question but it is not a debate at all like To Forgive Or Not which i think is put at the center of soooooooooooooooo many stories about troubled parent/child dynamics lol but kikuhiko never expects konatsus forgiveness and konatsu never rly offers it... and he really does not deserve her forgiveness either. like he is a wonderfully complicated character but objectively was a horrible father and the narrative could not be more clear about that lmao . but instead so much of it rly is about like love and forgiveness are not the same thing you can love someone without forgiving them and you see it over and over and over and in fact the characters who do pursue blind forgiveness for unhealthy behavior--like miyokichi endlessly excusing kikuhikos immaturity and cruelty and kikuhikos often like. frankly naive approach towards sukerokus substance abuse issues bc he does not know what else to do--are punished severely for it... the only way for konatsu to push forward and break the cycle of toxic grudges and excuses is to not forgive kikuhiko but also not punish herself for that and in doing so she could finally reconcile her love with her resentment and idk just all around an interesting way to discuss adult relationships with your parents when you're in the process of creating your own family and support system and suddenly you find your parents don't need to be everything they failed to be when they were supposed to be your world and that doesn't diminish their faults but it frees you to be your own person and if the situation calls for it to form a new kind of relationship w them..

#o #shouwa genroku rakugo shinjuu #THIS IS FROM . JUNE I THINK JSYFJFSYSIYFUHFSSIYFIYFSIYFSIUFS #hi.

[jackassbroadcast]

Hello im a Tommy enthusiast who watched that one stream where he monologued to foolish for like hafe an hour bc i heard it was a cool stream or wtv to realize how much amazing character moments it had that barly anyone in this damn fandom is talking about so ill fucking do it

(Only after finishing this i realized i wrote 1.7k words LOL OOPS)

If u dont know what in talking about its this stream (apologies for linking a clips channel the actual vod on foolish's channel is deleted by now)

Also heads up /rp /dsmp every time i refer to someone here by name is their character unless stated otherwise bc writing c! Before every name Is tiring LOL

Also // suicidal idealization , death mentions

The conversation starts off with foolish and tommy mining for Wilbur, and foolish questions how simply mining will solve the problem to which Tommy reponds with "they dont get solved, do they? It just ends uo with some madman screaming 'Hes solved it!' And now look at him." And how he wants to "prevent the problem before it goes outta hand" something that clearly references Wilbur and his destruction of lmanburg, which paired with him collecting stone for Wilbur as the way to stop said problems he believes if he does anything he can for Wilbur and support him by his side enough this time around, that he wont do anything like thay again, which as im writing this makes be realize by doing that we learn hes blaming himself for what happened to Wilbur in November 16th and pogtopia and a whole, by not being enough for Wilbur in his mind.

The conversation continues, foolish off hand asks why would tommy want to stop Wilbur? Weren't they friends at some point? To which tommy leads foolish to lmanburg and tells him the story of the nation (how it was him and Wilbur's nation, how they made it to espace dream's iron fist and how they held an election "which puts your life on the line, which is good- if you're confident but- perhaps we were too confident", how they lost)

Tommy: "You know the phrase: 'treat other how you wanna be treated', foolish? People dont ever listen to it. Wilbur- he decided he wanted to be treated poorly so he treated everyone around him poorly "

This Tommy quote, to me at least, so so amazingly strong in conveying how understanding he is? To the world around him. Like-

I have not seen one person bring this quote up, and yet its (at least to me) shows such growth and understanding in Tommy i saw little to nothing like it in other streams. It shows he understands, he knew Wilbur didnt change just because, he knows he was struggling, that he thought everyone around him were againt him, were going to abandon him the first chance theyll get- and he thought he deserved it. So he, as a last way to defend himself against that, hurt them first, abandoned them first, so theyll see how much of a 'bad' person he was and take him out- and tommy saw right through that, possibly understanding it more after exile.

This next qoute was talked about much more but i still wanna bring it up

Foolish: "Do you believe in second chances?"

Tommy: "Oh, no I don't really believe that its not really a thing for me foolish its just that-" *sigh* "- i believe everyone has a little bit of good in then and this is not about giving him a second chance or a third chance- its not about *chances* foolish. Its about not giving up on the poeple you care about. "

Which. I mean. I dont know how healthy that mindset is, but comign from Tommy it makes so much sense.

Techno, tubbo, eret, sapnap. These are all people Tommy used to be extremely close to, had either a war or had been betrayed by them, and yet still found it in his heart that he still cares for them, with all of these, they did horrendous things, that hurt tommy physically and mentally, while also not being once or twice, but a contentious thing, but while tommy is to this day still effected by their actions he still found it in himself to forgive, because he knows he fucked up too, a lot, and he knoes they learned from their mistakes just as he had (except c!techno FUCKKK c!techno mf doesnt learn SHITTT) and he knows, when the time comes he knows hed want the people he hurt to forgive him too. (And he wants Wilbur to do the same)

Next qoute i will cut to a couple parts because its really so good and full of character i had to bro

Foolish: "Do you consider yourself to be the good guy or the bad guy?"

Tommy: "It really depends who you ask, isn't it? Yknow? If you asked dream he'd say im *his little toy that he plays with* you know? It doesnt.."

This part really stunned me when i first heard it because, and correct me If im wrong, but i dont think tommy ever acknowledged how dream sees him, and  how right he has his viewpoint too. Just the fact tommy is so *painfully* aware of how dream doesnt even see him as a person anymore but just a toy to mess around with for a while than just throw it away when it get too boring really hurt me. Someone give this kid a hug

(Continued) Tommy: "...foolish, honestly? I used to consider myself 'the good guy', you know? The fuckin'- second in command! But these past- these past like six months or so, foolish, everything got so much harder than it was before. Because before it was just us vs bad guys, it was all so clear! But- its not been 'clear' for so long, right? It wasn't; 'these are the bad guys! These are the good guys!' Now it's : 'he's doing this and it makes him a bit worse-' i mean, it all got so complicated, so- i don't know. Depends who you ask."

He says this, in response to foolish asking if hes a good guy- but its awfully similar to if Wilbur asked him if they were the bad guys. Because foolish just asked about him, and yet in his answer tommy made sure to keep using the words "us, he's, guys" as if hes not really talking about himself, as if hes explaining how Wilbur was wrong. Which he was. Also something interesting ive noticed, he says "the last 6 months or so", which indicated that with Wilbur he knew better to follow his word and leadership- with Wilbur he was always on the right side but when he lost him he felt much more lost alone, and couldn't trust himself enough to be on the "right side" .

Foolish: "I dont know, it all seems strange because just from, you know- hearing from others and, you know, learing a little bit, its seems like you've been the hero, you've been the villain, the conqueror, the savior, and, even now, i have no idea what you exactly are."

Tommy: "that's up to you to decide, isn't it? Im just- *uh*  i dont know. These days, foolish, I'm a little weaker than i used to be"

Foolish couldn't be more right with what he said, another example of this we see where a character acknowledges tommy never sticks to one thing us Charlie when calling him "tommy fron nowhere" which shows more how he cant stick to one thing, during the course of him on the server he had been friends and enemy with nearly everyone, been on pretty much all sides, and while never really intentionally, being in the center of conflict. When foolish says he doesnt know who tommy is anymroe at this point and all Tommy says in return is that "hes a little weaker than he used to be" does to show he misses who he used to be, with lmanburg, with Wilbur, when he knew who he was, now he doesn't know who he is anymore, but still so desperately want to be more demonstrated by the lines coming rigth after that one:

(Continued) Tommy: "..I'm not- I'm now who i want to be, but-"

Foolish: "Being honest with you, Tommy, that's the same case for me as well."

Tommy: "...heres the thing, foolish, unlike you i dont really have a choice. I have to try and be who i want to be, because if i dont, very bad things are gonna happen in this server. And now that Wilbur's back i can't- quite frankly *no one* can risk that. So i dont really have a choice."

Tommy want's to change- he wants to be better than he is now, to be closer to who he used to be, no matter how impossible that might be, but he also sees it as an immediate thing, he wants to change now, or asap, which is why hes collecting stone for Wilbur in the first place- old him would've done that with ease just because Wilbur asked and he wants to have that back so badly, asap. The way he talked about this reminded me of when he tried getting over his trauma stream before he went in the prison to kill dream: he knew he wasnt the best but he tried getting over that asap to go kill dream asap. He didnt wanna take the long road of years of healing and instead thought he could get over it just like that, and that experience clearly didnt teach him anything because now hes trying to slide back to the relationship he and Wilbur used to have and ignoring the drastic changes they both had plus the bad moments that were the reason they feel out in the first place, or maybe he knows, but at this point, after everything that happened to him and the server, he doesnt care anymore? He knows hes not the same he was and he'll never be the same, because thats not how it works, but his mentor, president, big brother is back after so long tommy felt so lost and alone he thinks maybe, this time around, with Wilbur, he could try and be better again.

#mcyt #dream smp #dsmp #dreamsmp #tommyinnit #mcyt foolish #dsmp foolish #dsmp tommy #analysis #character analysis #tommyinnit analysis #dsmp analysis #analysis post #long post #long

[redxblueihateloveyou]

Hiiii!!! 💫💕🌸🥳

Can I bother with a question... I was (re)watching that zhang qiling edit (not today) - 'cause it's so cool, btw- and I wondered if Reboot Xiaoge’s your favourite one...? And if you're up to answering, what do you think about the other adaptations? Especially (our small bean) xiao yuliang's interpretation of xiaoge?

🤗🌺💐🐰💕

Hey, my precious patootie hehe ILY it always makes me very happy knowing that you rewatch my vids <3

lol dang it, I was kinda hoping to avoid this question, just because I feel like I'd find it hella hard to explain some things, but I'll try my best and hopefully it'll make some sense xD

I'll start from afar bc I wanna try to explain my reasonings, since I don't want to go without arguments into such highly debated question lolz. I talked about this a bit in my previous asks somewhere, but not broadly as to why that one guy hit all the right spots.

So throughout the books Wu Xie always does this wonderful thing, where he very tangibly describes the feeling he gets when Xiaoge is near, I mean like the aura around him. And he always somehow does it so colorful, that this mix of safety, assurance, calmness, composure and some things I can't quite put into one noun, that he brings to him, I think everyone who've read the books can recognize as this almost magical "Xiaoge feeling". It's not just the way he acts in some dangerous situations or smth like that. It's just everything. You either have it or you don't. And here goes my first argument... to me none of them, except for Huang Junjie and Yuliang have it.

I mean it's not even the obvious stuff, it's like the way they move during the action scenes, the way they even stand and hold themselves, the way they touch Wu Xie, the tone of their voices (both of which are like soothing as fuck), little things you'd think wouldn't matter, but when you watch it and all the puzzle pieces are together, you're like... fuck yeah, thats him.

Also not really that weighty of a point, but to me there's always a joy to see that the actor who plays the character not only gets what's he's playing, but also loves it, bc it's always seen on screen. Usually when some asked about the character they play and what they have in common for example they answer with obvious things like if some character is introverted they're like "well I also don't talk very much" or smth like that, you know what I mean. When I was watching interviews of Yuliang and Huang Junjie I was just smiling so much, bc they've said such things that made me go "yeah, Qiling is safe in their hands".

In Reboot case working in such close proximity with the author definitely also played a huge role here. Bc it kinda gets complicated in some aspects since the books are written from Wu Xie's point of view and you can't only base your picture on his perspective, just bc it's coming from a person who after being basically told "you're my whole world" goes "I'm just a person he randomly passes by in his long life" in his thoughts. Not only he's utterly clueless and dumb when it comes to all this, that he wouldn't notice the way Qiling looks at him and other things, its also not that kind of book, that would go "I suddenly caught poker face looking at me like I'm his whole existence" (and I honestly don't want it to be that book lmao). So you have to take into the account here stuff like what author says to get the whole picture, bc if you look at that from the point of Qiling's view for example, this shit takes a whole wild turn. So I really loved that in UN and Reboot ways of showing Qiling's feelings were well thought out and fit the timeline.

Bc it also works both ways, when it comes to other adaptations. Like Qiling is very and I mean ETREMELY hard to win over. We all know that it was a very long process of gaining his trust and even longer for him to fall for Wu Xie to the point of him being his everything. So what I want in those interpretations is for them to get at which point of their relationships what Xiaoge's behavior makes sense. I do not need any fanservice if it ruins the character, I'll just hate it. The thing that their feelings didn't come out of nowhere is what I LOVE about this ship, bc I'm not the kind of person who believes in "we love for nothing" thing and love at first sight thing (only "got hots for each other" at first sight), bc thats bull. Wu Xie became his everything after a long LONG process of getting to know each other. At the beginning tho he was the same stranger to him as everyone else. So what Reboot Qiling feels for Wu Xie is not what UN's Qiling feels for Wu Xie yet and what UN's Qiling feels for Wu Xie is not what Lost Tomb's Qiling feels for Wu Xie (which at that point was nothing). And I feel like not everyone gets the fact that you can totally wreck the character if you make him behave not the way he behaved in that particular time. Like for example, if someone would make a MDZS adaptation where at the very beginning of their relationships LZ treats WWX the way he treated him after the reincarnation just because "who cares, it's still LZ", that would be dumb af, see what I mean. So Xiaoge having a weakness for Wu Xie in part one is automatically not a Xiaoge to me, bc a huge part of his character and the thing NPSS speaks a lot about is just how IMPOSSIBLE it is for someone to catch his attention and how long it took Wu Xie to get there. So let's just say to me UN and Reboot Qilings for the first time didn't feel like some mashup or character summary/parody, they were Qilings the way they are supposed to be in that part of the story, bc it was the only times someone actually bothered to coordinate it.

Now as to why I prefer one to another. Xiaoge has this thing... the way he holds himself with other people, that is sometimes intentionally and sometimes unintentionally suppressing.

Like everyone knows that if you're a passerby, Qiling genuinely doesn't fucking care and would in fact be pretty harsh about it in terms of treating people like they do not deserve their attention. He won't be like "please, don't bother me", he simply ignored them like an empty space. He is also like that with acquaintances who in his opinion do not deserve his respect like that girl who went hysterical, bc she was upset that he was the only one who wasn't drooling on her like all other men on the crew, Chen Wenjin, Wu Xie's uncles and etc. He's not openly disrespectful unless they trigger him in some way (usually by trying to act superior or later on for not treating Wu Xie right), but if they do, he will in fact remind them their place in sometimes a very rude way, at times humiliating them in front of ppl bc he looks younger than them and talking starts.

He's always doing things on his own terms and hates being told what to do. Like he legit scared Chen Wenjin just with a look and the tone of his voice when he said "let go", when she tried to command him on the mission and grabbed him trying to lecture him about what he should or shouldn't do. That's why Wu Erbai didn't even try anything like this and let him do whatever he needed to do and equally lead the mission in Reboot. And why the scene where Wu Xie 'commands' "Xiaoge, come back" and he immediately listens holds another special place in my heart. Bc he NEVER and I mean NEVER allows such things to ANYONE.

So here I came to a point of why despite loving them both dearly, my favorite Xiaoge is Huang Junjie.

I have this dissonance with Yuliang's version when to me in many scenes it felt like he and Wu Xie are the same age. Like if he was Xiaoge, but in his 20s. In his interactions with Chen Wenjin the dynamics was turned upside down, with him being okay with her telling him what to do and just in general the way she behaved with him. Same as like I didn't always quite believe him to be on par with older generation or even Pangzi, it just felt like he was truly younger than them. Some scenes that I do find extremely cute just don't fit book Xiaoge at all, I'm talking about some moments like his face when Wu Xie gave him food, or him pouting and many things he's done, when you were going "uwu he's a baby". He just never gives me this feeling in the books ever, not just bc he's 100 years old, but sad fact here.. bc he's simply unable to behave that way. Like in the books you'll desperately want to shower him with love, but he's just... I can't quite explain, it's very sad.

I guess it's just you know these characters, who are like hundreds years old, but look like they're 18? I think you have to be very careful with how you write those, so you could deliver that. And in UN because of some changed dynamics and scenes I straight up forgot about it, until Wu Xie threw some joke like "he's an old man" in front of a restaurant.

In Reboot Xiaoge could make Wu Erbai stutter with one move, put Yuliang's version in the same scene, I just don't think it would've worked. Like I'm trying to imagine him telling UN's Wu Erbai what to do and having troubles already haha. Same as I don't think he's capable to be genuinely mad at Wu Xie, and HJJ nailed it esp in one of my fav when Wu Xie was laughing at Pangzi's joke about him catching cold. The look he gave him and how ZYL just retreated was priceless xD. And boy could Qiling get angry with him in the books!

Otherwise I didn't have any drastic fall outs there, like with Joseph's Wu Xie and Ah Ning's death, because that was just too much of a difference, but there were still moments where it was once again this the same scene completely different emotion thing. He was more tolerable to ppl in general here, more pliable. And 50% of the time he gave me the cute lost kitten type, which I just cannot connect with the feeling he gave me in the books. His personality is a cat type 100%, but like seriously "cute baby" is the last word combination I would ever apply to book Xiaoge, but with Yuliang's version it's easily applied. So small bean he is indeed. With Joseph and in UN it works incredibly perfect to me, but the way he is in UN is at times too gentle. And there are lots of scenes where Joseph himself looked at him in a way "you're too cute, let me pinch your cheeks" kind of way, or the way he like sat down next to him on the coast, he was a bit babying him at times. I can't imagine book pingxie doing that. It's just a whole different vibe, the way he takes care of him, the way he lets him take care of him... it's...uuuuuuuuu another vibe (see, I'm so good at explaining lmao).

It's also kinda funny to me, bc HJJ who's the smallest and who irl truly a kitten never once gave me that feeling on screen for some reason. The one babied and loved by every crew and old ppl, who was cutely hiding behind ZYL's back on set, who won't sue an ex who almost ruined his career bc of how stupid she is, bc he "didn't want to hurt her", who according to staff can't even step on a fly, whom CMH was petting for several minutes after he had to hit him with a prop brick bc he didn't wanna do it lmao. I was just like.. ok, this is hilarious, bc I in fact didn't expect him to be a small bean, so watching all the bts made me go LOOOOL. Probably ZYL acting like a 3 year old helped him transform and the age difference problem got lost lmao

As for other adaptations. You know I can't watch seriously "Lost Tomb", I think some ppl probably have some nostalgic feeling about it, but I'm sorry, to me it's fucking hilarious. Like I've already said it looks like some type of twilight parody thing or smth. Soft damselle Wu Xie esp killed me, bc 1st when he ever was that, 2nd in the first book he's salty af, I don't even know this dude in this interpretation, I was like who's this. YangYang I know him from other things, I really don't think it's his role. I know the script and everything is bad. I know the costume and hair are horrendously funny, but it's just I was watching him in those action scenes and was like no... just I'm sorry but I'm not feeling it. I simply just don't know what to say about the whole thing seriously, bc I don't even know where to start. 10 episodes of some salad finished with one mutilated scene from book 6 for no reason the fact that characters are weird themselves also I can't quite tell, did they really just meet or they imply smth else lmao.. I'm sorry, but I do not get it.

I've given LT2 another try after finishing all the books and I've dropped it half way through, Cheng Yi wasn't even close to how I pictured Xiaoge in any aspect. He in fact didn't do anything OOC or off the book or anything, I just was like "not my Qiling". Happens sometimes.

Explore with the note you already know how I feel about this lol let's just forget.

P.S. To be fair here also maybe we should take into account the fact that some got luckier than other with "at which point" Xiaoge they're playing. Like for example, "Wrath of the Sea" and "Qingling Tree" books which is LT2 is not exactly you can say much about Qiling there, he trolls them there in the beginning (in a brilliant way that was totally lost in the adaptation) and he is there in "Wrath of Sea", but it's not the part that can make his character shine in any way, there's not much things happening there that would make you fall for him or get to know him; Yuliang grabbed the fattest piece bc it's middle several books, when they're always together and his character shines the most in terms of clues about past, opening up to Wu Xie and Pangzi, and there are many many events where you can get the picture of what kind of man he is; Huang Junjie grabbed my fav piece of utter devotion, where he's already fully and wholeheartedly belongs to Wu Xie, that I'm just weak for. So like... there's also that I guess xD.

#answered #jaecomments #zhang qiling #daomu biji #dmbj #lost tomb reboot #i still feel like i couldn't quite explain stuff lol #its a complicated question xD #do not kill me for my i guess weird opinions haha #huang junjie #xiao yuliang #lost tomb #pingxie

[foolgobi65]

i really wish the writers of lucifer hadn't turned chloe and maze's friendship into such an afterthought! like ok:

- when they start in season 2, both of them are in pretty isolated places socially. chloe, already a pretty introverted workaholic, is just newly divorced and has exactly one (1) friend: lucifer. maze has finally split off from lucifer and has two (2) friends: linda and trixie, but for the purposes of this comparison linda really is maze's one friend. maze has just accepted that she's not actually going back to hell, that this time on earth isn't really just a lunch break before they go back to the real world (hell) and so she now has to figure out how to build a real life in LA.

- basically, both maze and chloe are kind of in similar positions in terms of being isolated and really only having a singular overwhelming relationship with someone as opposed to having a network they can rely on so that all their eggs aren't in one basket. you can see where this backfires on both of them throughout the series when linda spends the week not talking to maze after seeing lucifer's face, and when lucifer runs off to vegas and suddenly chloe is stuck with all these feelings she can't express (and crucially can't talk about to him, her best friend.) ofc lucifer and maze's relationship transcends friendship just based on their immense history and is its own weird thing that i also kind of wish they had given more thought to, but w/e.

- enter: maze and chloe's friendship! i think for both maze and chloe, the other person is as "far" as you could get from themselves, but is fascinatingly still someone they can like, respect, love, and be loyal to. for a good while (and this is something i REALLY wish they had maintained) chloe, maze, and dan are basically raising trixie together which takes so much respect and trust that the other person is someone you want having a hand in influencing a kid you love! i think what's interesting is that, unlike lucifer who is trying to answer existential questions about his place/purpose in the universe, maze is really just focused on the people she cares about and having a good time (which is rooted in her doing meaningful work as a bounty hunter.) chloe is someone who pursues duty to the point of self-sacrifice, and obviously her friendship with lucifer helps her loosen up, but the pedestal he places her on/reverence he sometimes feels for her prevents him from really popping that bubble in the same way maze does. also chloe and lucifer's relationship gets SO much more complicated around the time maze enter's chloe's life so the role that lucifer once had to shock chloe out of her comfort zone kind of goes to maze once chloe has to draw some personal boundaries with lucifer.

- i think the key to maze and chloe's friendship is that they're both people who desperately need someone who embodies the other person's best trait. while this tendency isn't always healthy, maze is fundamentally someone very loyal to those she believes deserves it. obviously she's also betrayed people a billion times but at her core she's deeply committed to those she cares about which is something that i can see chloe find really appealing. at this point chloe has spent so much of her life in this weirdly precarious position where, since her dad's death she hasn't been able to fully trust anyone or open up to them. obviously she loves dan, but its clear that even when they're still "good" he doesn't trust her instincts or potential like he should, and when he spent those months gaslighting her the issue for her even beyond the fact that he shot malcom would have been that he didnt support or trust his wife. the appeal of lucifer is that from the beginning he identifies that she's smart and moral with good instincts. he trusts her, and strangely over the season she begins to trust him too! and then he runs off to vegas, etc etc lol. maze's primary loyalty probably isn't to chloe, but we see that to the best of her capacity she wants chloe to be happy -- she gets the prison warden killed, she "tries" and then really does listen to chloe venting about lucifer, attends the parent night chloe was stressed about, sets aside her grudge with lucifer to find chloe.

- in turn, chloe's best trait is her ability to accept people as they are and see their potential. of course she doesnt really have that many friends, but the people she is attracted to are all works in progress (dan is obvious, as are lucifer and maze lmao, but there's also ella who confesses something very personal and scary to chloe and gets a hug in return, and even charlotte who chloe's had clashes with both as charlotte and Mom for years but still gets the benefit of the doubt.) maze does have to change when she comes to live with chloe and trixie, but we see trixie grow up heavily influenced by maze in ways that makes it clear that chloe must genuinely like maze, or those influences like the handshake and the passion for gore and the knife training wouldnt have been allowed. we know that the reason maze is so loyal to lucifer is that he was the first person to ever accept her for who she was unconditionally, without shame or judgment. we see that for lucifer chloe is that person, especially because she sees his potential for growth just as she sees maze's. because she doesnt have preconcieved notions of what they're supposed to be she only sees them as people going through a difficult period of growth and supports them as best she can: reminding maze that they're friends, worrying about her in canada, trusting her with trixie who is the most important person in chloe's life.

- of course, chloe and maze have lucifer and linda but narratively lucifer and linda become so much MORE for chloe and maze. the show sunk linda/maze lmao but linda's clearly the adult maze cares most about just as lucifer is chloe's. and for both in s3 this person they each place so much of themselves into suddenly hurts them and they both spiral. i think there was real potential for chloe and maze to become each other's support and develop into a really steady, enduring friendship in contrast to the chaos of their individual romances (you will NEVER convince me that triangle was about amenadiel rather than linda lmao.) even post s3, they don't really address that maze really hurt chloe by pushing her towards pierce, and that chloe hurt maze by lying to her. i really think there could have been a lot of growth from maze going back to living with chloe and trixie after making full ammends and chloe realizing that actually, yes she can deal with this and it isn't that scary and then the tragedy of her maybe missing her shot with lucifer becomes more stark. we see chloe and maze teaming up in the first episode of 5A but then they blow that up too! i get that chloe needs space and its clear they're both using the other as placeholders for the people they really want, but there's no reason that they couldnt have come back together later and re-established their friendship on screen. obv they wouldnt work together after lucifer comes back, but to me this is where i believe they should go back to living together. without that, maze's connection to trixie in terms of what they can show on screen becomes tenuous and chloe's home life just becomes less interesting/worthwhile to see bc it'd just be her or maybe her with trixie. without that, it feels like we just see a lot of chloe either at work or in relation to lucifer (bc thats the best bang for your buck in terms of interaction!) we do get to see maze with linda, which is nice, but idk just feels like a step back from early s3 when maze felt more embedded in a community of people who liked, accepted, and cared about her wellbeing.

- i think one of the issues is that chloe and maze's friendship might have seemed like a knock off of their "main" relationships with lucifer and linda bc they have similar dynamics with them, but idk! there's a sense of fun that we get from their friendship that we dont really see from the main pairings because those are so serious and passionate and the main mechanisms by which the 4 grow so there isn't as much room for the lighter stuff. i know i said that chloe sees the potential for growth but she's not really pushing maze to talk about her feelings. she's doing the dishes maze won't, smiling at maze and trixie's handshake, shrugging off the fact that maze is throwing knives at their rented walls. maze and chloe create space for each other to be seen as themselves, good or bad, in ways that linda and lucifer can't for whatever reason. they don't really push each other, just let the other person be. it wouldnt be the ideal dynamic if they were the only person in each other's lives, but i think its vital to have someone in your life who can, in chloe's case, gently push you outside of your comfort zone and in maze's case offer acceptance, friendship, and trust.

idk this is just going in circles as i repeat the same points over and over and over but i really wish they had put more thought into sustaining the maze and chloe friendship throughout s4 and s5 because it would have brought out notes in both of them narratively that i think are lost otherwise. also its just sad for trixie that someone who was basically part of her family who she was living with is just...not there anymore and that's never addressed. : (

#lucifer #maze #chloe decker #lol im just writing this here to avoid doing school work rip #back to pretending to do a reading!!!