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greenfiend · 25 days

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The Significance of Lover’s Lake and Byler (Theory)

'Cause we're lovers, and that is a fact

Yes we're lovers, and that is that (Heroes by David Bowie)

Part 2 here

(Warning: This post has mentions of sex (nothing graphic)… if you’re uncomfortable with that please do not proceed.)

So, Lover’s Lake has existed within the show ever since season 2, when Will mapped out the entirety of Hawkins. The lake is shaped like a heart (keep this in mind for later) thus the name “Lover’s Lake”. Makes sense within the town of Hawkins, but does not provide an explanation on a subtextual level. None of the “lovers” existing within the show has been associated with the lake (you could say Steve/Nancy but honestly it’s a stretch since they never actually rekindled their romance.)

This leads me to the question… why call the lake “Lover’s Lake” without associating any lovers to it?

Because maybe, there will be lovers connected to it… but they aren’t lovers… yet.

Okay, let’s get back to the shape. A heart. ❤️ Hm. Now which character within the show is most associated with hearts? Which character is even referred to as the heart by their love interest?

Mike.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that he’s one part of the “lovers” here. Thus ruling out many other romantic pairings within the show. Leaving only two pairings: Mike/El and Mike/Will. I won’t go into detail on why I believe Mike and El will inevitably break up, you can read a lot of different analyses for that. So that leaves… Mike/Will. Not lovers yet.

Okay, here’s the part where I may get crucified. The definition of lovers.

Please put your pitch forks down for this.

Lovers usually refers to two people in a sexual relationship outside of marriage.

With all the subtext (and actual text) around sex and sexuality, and how we see Will struggle with his own sexuality, there is a likely conclusion here. He’s going to confront his sexuality. To do so, he will have sex. With whom? Well, with the one person he loves the most, the one he affectionately refers to as the heart… his best friend… Mike.

Now, where’s this going to happen? What better location than somewhere empty and secluded.

Reefer Rick’s lakeside house.

Now, who is “Reefer Rick”?

Also known as, Rick Lipton, Reefer Rick is a drug dealer who’s closely acquainted with Eddie.

He’s an enigma. We never see him. All that is known about him are the things mentioned by other characters.

He’s currently in jail apparently for dealing drugs. Also, he seems like a town pariah.

Also, he isn’t too keen on Fast Times (returned on time), at least not as much as “Cheech and Chong” (returned late each time.) That shot at 53 minutes and 5 seconds in Fast Times doesn’t do it for him, I guess. Unlike watching two guys get high.

His name choice is an interesting one.

“Reefer” Rick Lipton.

“Reefer” is a synonym for “marijuana cigarette”. Okay, makes sense, he is a drug dealer after all. But why the term “cigarette”? Well… there’s this other word that also happens to be a synonym for “cigarette”…

Then Rick… short for “Richard”. Richard is one of the few names out there with a nickname that is also slang for male genitalia… “Dick”.

Then finally… Lipton.

As Robin says, spelled like Lipton tea. Now, why would the writers use the name “Lipton” and even reference the tea company if there were no significance to it? They wouldn’t. We know this about them.

So why “Lipton”?

Let’s do a bit of research here, shall we?

The founder of Lipton tea was a man named Thomas Lipton.

Thomas Lipton just so happens to have been a closeted homosexual man who had a long term relationship with another man whose name is… *drumroll please*

William Love.

Okay, that can’t be just a coincidence right?

So moving on to Reefer Rick’s house.

We see glimpses of his living room, kitchen, and briefly his bedroom.

Jason and his buds are searching for Eddie and this involves looking under the mattress? As if, Eddie could successfully hide under there? Haha okay sure.

The angle of this shot is interesting too, because the bed is essentially being shown off to us.

This bed with a blue blanket and yellow sheets. Hm. Interesting.

Keep in mind this scene is essentially unnecessary. They could have easily shown Jason et al searching for Eddie without creating an entire new set for a room that’s only used in one single insignificant shot. Therefore, I do not think it’s unreasonable to believe this is used for foreshadowing.

Then we also get this shot from outside the window into the bedroom.

Look familiar? I thought so too.

Okay. Now for my theory/prediction.

As I mentioned earlier, Will is currently struggling with his own sexuality and feels a lot of shame and internalized homophobia. There’s also a lot of evidence that Mike is experiencing the same thing. Unlike Will, Mike conforms to the society’s expectations. He dates El, performing as her boyfriend. This is comparable to Nancy’s arc in season 1. She also conforms, and like Mike, leaves her best friend behind. We all know how that ended.

Now, what better way to wrap up the show than to have Mike correct his sister’s mistake? To have Mike reject societal expectations in favour of his best friend?

Okay so this is my theory.

Mike and Will have their first kiss an episode or two prior to 5x07. Tensions are high, but they’re busy fighting interdimentional monsters along side their friends.

Then comes 5x07 which somehow leaves Mike and Will alone by Lover’s Lake. The tension between them reaches an all time high, leading to a passionate kiss and then… more. Let’s just say it involves that blue and yellow bed.

At the same time as these two become the lovers they were meant to be, another character is being saved, or perhaps being brought back to life. Perhaps another red head, one we all know and love. Yes, a major parallel and contrast to Steve/Nancy’s sex scene in season 1, which featured Barb dying. But because Mike is rejecting conformity and being authentic, another character lives instead.

I mean, what better way to represent the beauty of the love and intimacy between these two boys? Their love is literally bringing back life to the world.

So yeah, basically I’m saying that Mike and Will expressing their love for each other will save Max.

This also wouldn’t be the first time that Max’s survival is correlated with their relationship. As I doubt that it was merely a coincidence that in episode 4x04 we have Mike’s genuine monologue to Will, then we have Max surviving Vecna. In contrast to 4x09, which features a forced monologue from Mike to El, followed by Max losing to Vecna and barely surviving.

So, as their bond strengthens, Max’s life bar goes up (so to speak). If something interferes with their bond, Max’s outcome is more dire.

The writers have also been associating Mike/El with death…

[Tumblr only allows a limited number of images so pretend we have one of El holding dead flowers and another image of the cut scene from 3x05 with Mike/El having a moment cutting to a dead body on the hospital floor]

Mike/Will on the other hand have been associated with life. The birds chirping in the background of their final scene together, the flowers blooming between them as they stand together. Plus, blue plus yellow does equal green after all. Which is the most commonly associated colour with life.

🌿🌱🌳

To conclude, I just want to say that I personally think this would be a nice way to end their arc. I know a lot of people are uncomfortable with associating Mike/Will with anything sexual… but the show has been doing this already. Whether you like it or not, Mike and Will have been shown implicitly and explicitly that they desire each other both romantically and sexually. The fact that they have sexual desire for each other does not minimize or trivialize their friendship and love, it’s an aspect of it… adding another dimension to their relationship.

Do I think or hope they would show anything pornographic? Absolutely not (do I even have to say this?) But explicit like Steve/Nancy? Yes. Do I think they’ll be only 14/15 years old when this occurs? No. This will likely happen after a time jump.

Being authentically yourself and not conforming is overall a major theme of the show. I mean it’s called Stranger Things after all. Will people be upset by the ending of this arc? Bylers included? Absolutely. Many people within the town of Hawkins and people watching the show will both show disgust for it. But that’s the point. It’s not “normal” and that’s okay. Different is good, and can be a beautiful and wonderful thing. We all just need to open our minds and hearts a bit. I’m not just talking about the GA; many Bylers are also closed minded and stuck in their ways too. Let’s all try to work on that, shall we?

Despite the opinions of others, Will and Mike will choose to love each other which will inevitably lead to their defeat of Vecna. Love concurs all. It may be cheesy and cliche but personally? I think that’s a beautiful thing. We all can learn to love more.

Anyway, would love to know your thoughts on this.

Then we could be Heroes, just for one day

Part 2 here

#loverslakegate #byler #stranger things #stranger things 5 #byler theory #stranger things theory #lovers lake

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skaruresonic · 7 months

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The common rebuttal to "this reads like fanfic (derogatory)" is "read better fanfic," which is true in certain cases, but on the other hand, there is some grain of truth to the idea that you can tell when someone's primary mode of literary analysis is fanfic instead of... well... literally anything else. It's okay to like or even prefer fanfic, but if you want to take your craft seriously you also need to read books, dude. Published books will teach you a lot of stuff fanfic doesn't, like proper dialogue formatting and how to introduce your reader to unfamiliar characters. Even the crappiest book (well, if it's not After or 50 Shades, which started off as fanfic to begin with lol) will have been subjected to some sort of editing process to ensure at least the appearance of proper grammar. That's not a guarantee with your average fanfic, and hence why you can't always take all your writing cues from fanfic because it's "so much better" than commercially published original fiction or whatever. Frankly, fic writers tend to peddle some absolutist and downright bad takes sometimes. "Said is dead" is a terrible rule, though not because said is invisible and a perfectly serviceable tag; that's just part of it. Dialogue tags are a garnish, not a main dish that can be swapped out for more ostentatious words. If your characters murmur and mutter instead of simply saying stuff, your readers are going to wonder why nobody speaks up. "'I'm explaining some very plot-important shit right now lol,' she elaborated," likewise, is a form of telling. Instead of letting the reader extrapolate that "she elaborated" via the contents of the dialogue itself, you're telling them what to think about it. And that's why it's distracting: your authorial hand is showing. Writing is an act of camouflage. You, as the writer, need to make your presence as invisible as possible so as to not intrude on the reader's suspension of disbelief. That's the driving reason behind "show, don't tell." And overall, everyone could stand to cut down on the frequency of their dialogue tags anyway. Not every exchange needs "he said" or "she whispered" attached as long as you establish who is doing the talking before the exchange. Some people will complain of confusion if you go on for too long without a dialogue tag, and that definitely is a risk, but at some point you also need to resist the temptation of holding the reader's hand. If they can't follow a conversation between two people, chances are they weren't meeting you halfway and paying that much attention in the first place. In fact, you don't even necessarily need action beats in between every piece of dialogue, as Tumblr writing advice posts will often suggest as a fix. Pruning things often cleans them up just fine.

Another fanfic-influenced trend in writing is, I guess, beige prose? A heavy focus on internal narration with lots of telling. It's not a style I can concretely describe, but every time I click on a non-mutual's writing, I feel like it always has, like. This "samey" voice to it. There's no real attempt to experiment and use unique or provocative language, or even imagery half the time. It's almost a dry recital of narration that doesn't leave much room for subtext. I see this style most often in fanfic where you can meander and wax poetic about how the characters feel without ever really getting around to the plot. And it's like. DO something.

Other tells that the author is taking their cues from fanfic mores rather than books: >>too much minute description of eyes, especially their color and their movement >>doesn't leave much room for subtext (has a character speak their every thought aloud instead of letting the reader infer what they're thinking via action or implication) >>too much stage action ("X looked at Y. Y moved to push their seat in. X took a deep breath and stepped toward Y with a determined look on his face. 'We need to talk,' he said.") >>tells instead of shows, even when the example is about showing instead of telling ("he clenched his teeth in agony" instead of just "he clenched his teeth") >>has improper dialogue tag formatting, especially with putting full stops where there should be commas ("'Lol and lmao.' she said" instead of "'Lol and lmao,' she said." This one drives me up a wall) >>uses too many dialogue tags >>"em dashes, semi-colons and commas, my beloved" - I get the appeal but full stops are your friends. Too much alternate punctuation makes your writing seem stilted and choppy. >>"he's all tousled brown hair and hard muscle" and "she's all smiles and long legs." This turn of phrase is so cliche, it drives me up a wall. Find less trite ways of describing your characters pls. >>"X released a breath he didn't know he'd been holding" >>every fucking Hot Guy ever is described as lean and sinewy >>sobbing. why is everyone sobbing. some restraint, pls >>Tumblr in general tends to think a truism counts as good writing if you make the most melodramatic statement possible (bonus: if it's written in a faux-archaic way), garnish it with a hint of egotism, and toss in allusions to the Christian God, afterlife, or death. ("I will stare God in the face and walk backwards into hell," "What is a god to a nonbeliever?") It's indicative of emotional immaturity imo, that every emotional truth need be expressed That Intensely in order to resonate with people. >>pushes the "Oh." moment as the pinnacle of Romantic Epiphany >>Therapy Speak dialogue. why is this emotionally constipated forty-something man who drinks himself stupid every morning to escape gruesome war memories speaking about his trauma like a clinical psychologist >>"this well-established kuudere should Show More Emoshun. I want him to break down crying on his love interest's shoulder from all his repressed trauma" - I am begging u. stop >>"why don't the characters just talk to each other?" "why can't we have healthy relationships?" I don't know, maybe because fiction is not supposed to be a model for reality and perfect communication makes for boring drama?

>>improperly using actions as dialogue tags ("'Looks like we're going hunting,' he grinned") >>why is everyone muttering and murmuring. speak up >>too many adverbs, especially "weakly" and "shakily." use stronger verbs. ("trembled" instead of "shook weakly") >>too many epithets ("the younger man" or "the brunette detective") >>too many filter words ("he felt," "she thought," "I remembered")

>>no, Tumblr, first-person POV is not the devil; you're just using way too many filter words (see above) and not enough sentence variation to make it flow well enough. First-person POV is an actually pretty good POV (not just for unreliable and self-aware narrators) if you know what you're doing and a lot of fun crafting an engaging character voice. Tumblr's hatred of first-person baffles me, and all I can think is you would only hate it if your only frame of reference was, like, My Immortal. Have you tried reading A Book? First-person POV is just another tool in your toolbox, and like all tools, it can be used properly or improperly. But it's not inherently a marker of bad writing. The disdain surrounding it strikes me as about as sensical as making fun of the concept of characters. Oh, your work has characters in it? Ew, I automatically click off a fic if it has characters in it. like what.

#writing #obligatory disclaimer that I am speaking broadly and this is in no way intended to make anyone feel self-conscious

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mikesbasementbeets · 11 months

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ok. look at these.

look. that's the same look. right?

let's take a closer look. to do that, i'm gonna have to zoom in a bit on the first one. because, as you can immediately see, the shots are slightly different. the first is a little farther away, showing both mike and el, walking next to each other, whereas the second is much more intimate, a closeup on mike's expression as he looks at will's face in the foreground. a minor but telling difference about the levels of emotional intimacy in each scene.

so, moving past that first element of contrast, let's look at each shot in full, because in both of these scenes, mike goes on a bit of a face journey before he gets to that final smiling expression, seen above.

personally, i think studying actors' body language and micro-expressions is inconclusive at best, but i won't deny that these look similar. however, it's pretty clear to me that they aren't the same.

toward el, i see confusion, intrigue, maybe pleasant surprise, followed by a glance down (to emotionally process and/or watch his step), and then a nervous but friendly smile.

toward will, i see awe, relief, and overwhelming affection, followed by a shy glance down and a slight schooling of his slack jawed expression into a warm smile.

but, again, that's just my interpretation, and i can't say with any certainty what the intention of all of finn's micro-expressions are. but from my perspective, even a surface level viewing of these two expressions depicts a very different emotional experience. however: there's no denying the connection between these two scenes. they clearly mirror each other, just like a lot of things about mike's relationships with el and will mirror each other. i don't think that's an accident.

whatever you think his sexuality is, mike is undeniably in a romantic narrative with el. beginning in season one episode three, when the concept of their romantic relationship is introduced, the narrative arc mike and el share is heavily focused on that relationship. the first scene above actually happens in that same episode (s1e3), not coincidentally almost directly afterward. and the former scene, with mike, lucas, and dustin behind the baseball field, provides very interesting context for several reasons:

first: bear with me, because we're going back to look at the context behind this context. this is only episode three of the show, but already there's a lot going on, both in text and subtext.

and since we have the entirety of their relationship so far presented to us on screen, when lucas accuses mike of looking at el romantically, we're easily able to go back and figure out where he got that impression: we can examine every time lucas has seen mike look at el at all.

the first night, after finding el in the woods instead of will, and while insisting that the next day she'd be gone and they could focus on will again, mike's behavior is directly reminiscent of benny's. taking el in, and providing her with shelter, food, and clothing.

the next day, after learning that she's in danger and changing his mind about pawning her off on his mother, mike infers that she might know something about will. when lucas arrives, he exclaims that she recognized him and knew he was missing.

later, when lucas tells her that will is their friend, she asks what that means and mike explains. a friend...

and then she displays that she might really be able to help them find will. and mike looks at her like this:

each and every one of these interactions is directly related to will. but lucas, through the omnipresent lens of heteronormativity that surrounds boys' interactions with girls (especially a group of boys who have no experience with girls... more on that in a bit), only seems to consider the fact that mike's behavior, which is undeniably about will, is being directed at el.

throughout season one (and beyond, in more subtle ways), will and el are repeatedly connected to each other through the trope of mistaken identity. will is abducted on the same night (and due to the same series of events) that el escapes the lab. hopper, in his investigation into will's disappearance, keeps running into clues about el. and mike, lucas, and dustin, sneaking out in episode one to search for will, find el instead.

later in the season, hopper eventually realizes the truth of his own more overt mistaken identity arc: while he was under the assumption that he'd been following will's trail, he'd actually been following el's. interestingly, the realization is triggered by one specific distinguishing difference, which tells him beyond a doubt that he's been looking for two different kids: their art.

though much more subtle (aka hidden in the subtext), mike's arc with his feelings about will and el follows a very similar pattern. the main difference, though, is that in season one, the swapping of places is eventually reversed but never acknowledged as such, and mike ends season one with el now missing and will back in his life, but a lingering sense of something yet unresolved.

second: (i'm not going to deep dive into this one here, because it's a whole analysis in and of itself, but i need to mention it because it is relevant) this scene introduces the recurring motif of superheroes being directly connected to mike's feelings for el, which is an association we see follow them all the way into season four and become a defining metaphor for their incompatibility.

third: lucas is the character who first introduces mike's romantic feelings for el into the narrative. and instead of giving any indication that lucas' interpretation is correct, mike's reaction is... difficult to read. his response is immediately defensive, both verbally ("what are you talking about?" "shut up, lucas,") and physically (leaning away and shielding himself when lucas hugs him). we can infer from the original character descriptions why mike might be defensive about this subject:

obviously, this description is only a vague impression of what Mike Wheeler became, but it's clear that the core elements of his character outlined here did come to fruition on screen. here, mike's insecurity is linked both to the bullying he undergoes, and to his inexperience/ineptitude with girls. and it's presented as key to his character motivation (the original concept of his character arc put forth here is very straightforward: at the start, mike has insecurity centered around bullying and is romantically inexperienced. by the end, mike has courage against monsters and romantic experience.)

in any case, this scene is the first hint of this aspect of mike's character in the show itself (the earlier scene of bullying in the show focusing on mike consoling dustin over what he’s being bullied for (“i think it's kinda cool. it’s like you have superpowers or something!”)... see my last point here… mike holds the idea of superpowers in high regard, and they are consistently connected with his feelings about el. something about the mistaken identity through-line feels apt here: mike mistakes his feelings of admiration for el as feelings of romance.) in this scene, mike is confronted with both romance (in direct relation to himself for the first time in the show) and bullying.

but due to the way this is shot, it's impossible to get a read on what mike is truly feeling. it reminds me a lot of another scene, actually...

in both of these scenes, mike's genuine emotional reaction is hidden from us. in the first, lucas forcibly hugs him, teasing him about how much he "loves" el, and in effect introducing the idea of el as a romantic prospect to mike. in the second, el hugs mike tightly, her hand still around his neck from their kiss and his arm trapped in between them, similar to the way he shields himself from lucas. we're then shown that he's signed the card on the flowers squished between them "from, mike." hm. so... not love, as lucas suggests.

we come to learn over the course of season four that this is something mike is actively struggling with: his inability to "love" el in the way that she wants, expects, and deserves. this scene, introducing that season-long arc, conceals mike's true emotional state and motivations from us, again, mirroring the first introduction to their entire romantic plot line way back in season one.

(an aside: lucas' "if you love her so much, [then] why don't you marry her?" aka the inciting event of their romantic arc, is a based on a conditional statement with the hypothesis that mike loves el. as mr. clarke might posit (in, say, season one, episode one): what's the difference between an experiment and other forms of science investigation? ...well, an experiment is a controlled test of two or more variables against a hypothesis. does that remind you of anything happening in mike's romantic narrative? something about...... [murray voice] experimenting sexually?)

anyway. then, after extracting himself from el's embrace, mike finally drops his bag(gage) and opens his now empty arms to will, before preemptively cutting himself short with a punch to the shoulder.

...did someone say internalized homophobia?

and then immediately upon being introduced to argyle, mike is called out for his presentation here not being genuine. ("it's a shitty knock-off,"/"i really thought it was ocean pacific...") we're being told that something about mike's performance is not what it seems (and may even be a case of one thing being mistaken for something else).

and speaking of homophobia...

fourth (and finally): this scene, of lucas' teasing mike about his "love" for el, which i'll remind you again is tied directly to lucas mistaking mike's behavior regarding will as being solely about el, is quickly interrupted by an onslaught of homophobia, during which mike is specifically targeted (read: tripped) by the bullies.

the juxtaposition is immediate and obvious: mike's friends lovingly teasing him, even embracing him, over a crush on a girl vs. bullies maliciously taunting them about will being killed for being queer and then physically harming mike.

(there's also something to be said about the later scene in which these bullies force mike to drop his bike in the woods and chase him to the edge of the quarry, mirroring exactly how the cops assume will must have died... and, to be clear, i'm not saying that mike himself is being bullied for being queer in the way will was. no, mike's queerness is invisible to those around him in a way that will's isn't, so his relationship with it and the ways it affects him are hidden in subtext.)

which brings us directly to the following scene in the woods. el asks about mike's injury (sustained from the aforementioned bullying, thereby linking these two scenes even more concretely) and with a little prodding ("friends don't lie"), he opens up to her about what happened, and about being bullied at school. she listens, tells him she understands (this also follows her recent flashback of brenner's abuse in the lab), and they share a "cool," "cool," and a smile.

so... let's quickly jump over from here to the van scene with will. something similar, yet notably different, is happening in this scene, leading up to that infamous smile at the end. mike is sharing his insecurities with will now, but instead of will prodding him to open up, mike, prompted only by will's "she's gonna be okay," begins rambling so much about his insecurities (while speaking in superhero metaphors) that he eventually cuts himself off, saying it's "stupid." instead of letting him brush it off, will guesses exactly what mike is afraid of: "you're scared of losing her." he gives him The Painting (a symbol of his love for mike) and a long speech about feeling lost and different, while insisting upon mike's value (you're the heart, leading us, inspiring us, etc). and then they share a "yeah?" "yeah," and a smile.

so we can see the similarity in the way the shots are set up, the progression of the conversations, and mike's visible reactions. but we can also see distinct differences, all of which together inform a significant difference in emotional weight between these two scenes.

while mike's conversation in the woods with el takes place in the third episode of season one, at which point mike has known her for less than 48 hours, the van scene is in the second to last episode of season four, and is the fourth of five heart-to-hearts mike and will have this season alone (and following three previous seasons and beyond that years of close friendship). it is also arguably the climax of their shared arc this season. on the other hand, mike and el's season one moment is part of the introduction to their storyline, and the introduction to their romantic arc. in this moment in the woods, mike is looking at el romantically (did you think i was gonna argue that he isn't? because no, he definitely is). in fact, this is the beginning of mike's entire romantic arc, which sets out to address the foundational insecurity that is key to his character. we, as an audience, right alongside mike, have just been told (by lucas) that mike has romantic feelings for el. and then we are presented with this scene. we are supposed to view this as romantic. because mike is starting to view it as romantic.

had stranger things been one season long, then the climax of their romantic arc would have been the kiss they share in the cafeteria, followed by the denouement of el's symbolic death (the gay implications of which i could write another whole essay on...). but the end of season one was not the resolution of mike's full romantic arc. by the nature of the five act structure (which is what stranger things has, being five seasons), the entirety of season one serves as exposition for our full narrative. which means, in effect, that the entire arc of mike and el's season one relationship is there to serve as groundwork, a foundation for mike's complete five season arc. season one, starting from before he even meets el, all the way through to when he eventually kisses her and then loses her, is only act one of that arc. the first act of five act structure is when the driving conflict is presented. so in the context of the entire show, for us as the viewer, mike's narrative arc surrounding the romantic aspect of his insecurity begins with his season one "romance" with el.

and we know that this insecurity is an element of the full five-act narrative, rather than being presented and wrapped in the course of the mini "self contained" narrative of season one, because we can see plainly, three seasons later, particularly during mike's heart-to-hearts with will, that this insecurity has not yet been resolved. we know this, on a basic level, from having watched mike and el's relationship struggles progress, but it is still explicitly laid out for us in season four. and will is consistently the only person who genuinely hears mike out, encourages him to open up, and addresses his insecurities, instead of brushing him off, like most other people in his life (including will at some points) have done. will understands him in a way el only claimed to in season one.

looking back to the character outline: mike has now "kiss[ed] a girl" and even "had a girlfriend" and still hasn't resolved his insecurities even remotely. in fact, after the first season arc wraps up, this romantic relationship becomes the main source of that insecurity. his difficulty navigating a real romantic relationship with el is the basis of their arc in season three. and by season four, mike is consciously struggling with being unable to tell el that he loves her. despite will's reassurances that things will be okay (which stack onto lucas' constant relationship advice in season three), mike keeps circling back around to it. because he can't move forward on the path he is on.

he has reached a point of no return, like a “fight you can’t come back from.” he is unable to find the security he is searching for in his romantic relationship with el... and this is where we arrive back at the van scene with will.

if the scene in the woods marks the beginning of the introduction of mike's romantic arc, then the scene in the van marks the beginning of the conclusion of mike's romantic arc. if the introduction of his romantic arc (season one) presents his insecurity, then the natural conclusion of that arc (season five) is security. throughout season four, mike lays out for will the insecurity that his relationship with el still brings him. he is unable to find that security with el, and, in the van scene, finds it with will instead.

or, should i say, begins the journey to finding it. because, especially after the lie that brings them into that moment, and then traumatic pizza dough freezer incident, we're still at the beginning of the conclusion. there's still a lot to resolve, but season four (alongside mike, who now understands what he's been going through) finally began moving the subtext of mike's arc into the actual text. and this moment indicates that season five will take that next step to fully, textually, actualizing it.

so, getting back to the parallel we're looking at here: each of these scenes is a catalyzing moment in mike's romantic arc. in season one, when lucas suggests that mike has a crush on el, and then what follows is a conversation with el where she is (to quote lucas) "not grossed out" by him, he actively begins his journey toward resolving this character motivating insecurity. he looks at el and he sees the possibility of romance.

and just look at him. he looks excited. hopeful. a little nervous. but... i want to remind you again: mike has known el for less than 48 hours at this point. this is the first conversation they've had in which they've related to each other as equals. for their entire relationship before this and afterward, outside of their romantic interactions (and also. often. disturbingly. concurrent with their romantic interactions...), mike's role has been as el's protector, a makeshift father figure, the elliot to her E.T. here, though, el tells mike that she understands him.

in season one, mike is twelve years old (read: pre-pubescent). he has no personal understanding of or experience with romance. dustin starts to comment in s1e2, "you're letting a girl...?" and ted later scoffs "our son with a girl?" and outside of the queer coding, what we can take from both of these (which draw back to the original character description) is that mike has no experience with girls whatsoever. (outside of, you know. family. but that's not what this post is about.)

and again, this scene happens almost directly after lucas first introduces the idea of romance between them, both to the narrative, and to mike himself, who, very significantly, up until this point, has shown no romantic interest in el. the sequence of these events is not a coincidence. 1. lucas assumes mike has romantic feelings for el. 2. el and mike have a moment of personal connection and understanding 3. mike "boys only" wheeler puts these two together and assumes the connection between them must be romance. but the expression on mike's face here isn't a representation of already existing romantic feelings. there's no basis for those. again, this moment represents for mike the potential for romance.

which... makes his expression in the van scene hit even harder. because unlike el, will isn't a stranger he barely knows, but rather his best friend of ten years. and it isn't lucas telling mike how mike feels. it's will professing his own feelings about mike, in direct response to mike's self-professed insecurities. (ding ding ding, are your alarm bells going off?) mike's expression at the end of this scene, if we're viewing it as a reprise of his season one expression, is a representation of hope for his romantic future. but this time, heading into the resolution of mike's romantic arc, with all of the knowledge and context we (and mike) have gained over the course of the past four seasons, it's directed at will.

ok. so. with the basic connection between these two scenes established, i'm gonna move a little bit sideways here. at the end of their romantic arc in season one, el disappears from mike's life and will reappears in it, effectively swapping their places (remember that we've been dealing with the mistaken identity trope between these two), and leaving the question of mike's romantic security glaringly unresolved.

and we know why - this is a five act narrative we're watching - but just within the context of the season one arc... the climactic moment of mike finally asking the girl to be his sister kissing the girl was preceded by her locating will in the upside down (leading to his rescue) and followed by a resolution in which she disappeared... and will took her place. at the end of the season, mike is left in the same place he started: playing games in his basement with will, his first attempt to resolve his arc of romantic insecurity, with el, ultimately ending in tragedy.

after season one, this arc picks up again, but this time will is the one present in mike's life. and mike's behaviors toward el in season one, during which they were undergoing a romantic story arc, begin showing up again in his behavior toward will. but unlike with el, mike's particular (read: romantic) behavior toward will happens without outside intervention, and in fact, often in spite of outside intervention. now, this isn't to say that all of mike's behavior with el was a result of others' influence. when el reveals to mike that she is on the run from "bad people," mike is immediately protective and caring toward her. however, as i've already explained, this caring behavior (which, again, we know right off the bat is not romantic because it directly mirrors the way both benny and hopper care for her) doesn't turn into romantic behavior until lucas introduces that idea.

on the opposite side of the spectrum, right from episode one of season one, mike's behavior toward will is fully self motivated, even in the face of opposition.

and as we move through season one and beyond, we can see that mike continues to rely on constant guidance in the way he cares about el (particularly and most consistently from lucas).

stranger things is, at it's horror filled core, a coming of age tale. like many of our other characters, mike's full character arc, romantic and otherwise, is about self-actualization. from the very conception of the show, his insecurity is presented as a central character flaw to overcome, while also being directly linked with his romantic fulfillment. the overcoming of this fatal flaw, the resolution of his romantic arc, and his final achievement of self-actualization are all inextricably intertwined.

the reprisal of this specific expression of romantic hope as we enter the end of mike's romantic arc is not an indication that mike is in the same place emotionally at the end of season four as he was at the beginning of season one, just with a different person now. instead, it is an indication of his romantic arc coming full circle. mike began in a position of hope for his romantic future with el, only to have the actualization of that hope (their romantic relationship) gradually degrade his romantic fulfillment and self-esteem. the longer mike and el are together, and the more serious their romantic relationship becomes, the worse mike's insecurities become. this is, i would argue, directly related to the fact that mike's pursuit of a romantic relationship with el is not due to his own genuine desire, but instead a combined result of heteronormativity (lucas assuming mike's feelings for el to be romantic), compulsive heterosexuality (mike's subsequent assumption that his feelings for el must be romantic), forced conformity (mike's attempt to resolve his insecurities firmly within these heteronormative boundaries, under the assumption that a rejection of these boundaries is unacceptable), and the trope of mistaken identity that has been following will and el since season one.

and of course i don't know with any concrete certainty what season five will contain, but based on the narrative so far, and optimistically expecting a satisfying resolution to his character arc, the actualization of his romantic hope regarding will is going to lead to true romantic fulfillment and coincide with his self-actualization (a big part of which is coming to terms with his sexuality).

now, i'm not going to conclude this whole analysis by saying, "and that's why mike is gay!" because while i think this all is a good indication of that, based on all of the context and my impression that this narrative is being presented in a way that focuses on the subtext and deeper symbolism of each of these relationships rather than being a case of specifically el vs. will, you might still have a different interpretation than me. that's fine. however, i am going to end by insisting (me when i argue with the wall), based on everything i've laid out, that this parallel and others like it (ie parallels between byler & miIeven's romantic arcs) are not evidence of mike's feelings, specifically whether they are genuinely romantic or not. this parallel serves as a narrative device in his romantic character arc... the conclusion of which is mike realizing and coming to terms with the fact that he is actually in love with will, and not el.

just to be very clear, i'm not saying these parallels alone are proof against mike being bisexual, but i am saying that they are not evidence in support of his being bisexual. again: they do not indicate that mike is romantically attracted to el. what they indicate is that will and el are foils in mike's romantic arc.

before i finish, i want to address a couple misconceptions:

1. the fact that mike actively and willingly participates in a romantic relationship with a woman means he can’t be gay. this is straight up homophobia. gold star bullshit. no.

2. mike and el being presented in a romantic light means that they have genuine romantic feelings for each other. this is a misconception of the way narrative tools are used to tell a story. going right back to my first point: it is an irrefutable fact that many gay people have romantic relationships with the people of different genders (read “the opposite sex”) before they come out/realize their true sexuality. it is also a fact that many of these gay people fully believe their feelings to be genuinely romantic before realizing that they are not. as i've already gone over, mike is twelve years old when his romantic arc begins. on the surface, his relationship with el is presented as romantic. he participates in (and even initiates) romantic behaviors because he believes that his feelings for el are romantic. in seasons one and two, mike is one of our main POV characters. we can see a romantic tilt to the way some of their scenes are shot because, to mike, while they are happening, they are romantic (keeping in mind what i said before about mike having no experience and therefore no personal knowledge informing his perspective, AND keeping in mind that many of these on-the-surface "romantic" scenes are also consistently subtextually linked (read: paralleled) to familial relationships for both of them... and i haven't even touched the cultural context surrounding homosexuality in 80's. there's so much nuance informing the way this story is being told). and we, as the audience, are supposed to read them as romantic on first viewing, because otherwise the season five plot twist, revealing the truth of mike's feelings, would not work.

it is not a coincidence that the active degradation of their romantic relationship (outside of all of the other context, parallels, symbolism, family coding, etc, that are there to hint along the way that things are not as they might seem) begins full force in season three, at the exact point when the two actually enter a real relationship for the first time, and also when our characters are entering puberty, the time during which a person's sexuality (in a general sense, but also in regard to sexual orientation) begins to fully emerge. after his season one arc with el, mike underwent another season-long romantic arc: this time, with will. it's more subtle, because (i believe) mike doesn't realize yet that it's romantic, but it's there. then at the end of season two, mike makes a choice: he encourages will to dance with a girl and he dances with el, re-writing their tragic ending from season one, but now leaving his romantic arc with will frustratingly unresolved, again mirroring the sense of unresolution from season one: mike has swapped out the end of each romantic arc with the wrong love interest.

and then in season three, now having had the experience of both romantic arcs, and now, for the first time, with both will and el right there beside him, all we can see anymore is the overt contrast between the two relationships, depicted most blatantly through the same type of visual and narrative "parallel" we've been looking at here.

but at the end of this season, instead of making a choice, mike's choice is made for him. he has a romantic moment with will, and then el kisses him, confusing the resolution of these two romantic arcs once again.

mike's season four arc closely mirrors his season one arc (searching for one love interest with the other by his side, mistaken identity trope abound), but with important distinctions: 1. mike is a little older, a lot more experienced, and has a better understanding of both the context of romantic relationships and the scope of his feelings for both el and will. and 2. mike's only real guidance in season four comes from will, and he doesn't simply listen and act based on will's advice, as he did with lucas' in seasons 1&3. now, he fully engages with will's input, pushing back against it when he doesn't agree, and accepting it when he can acknowledge its truth (up until, of course, our fourth (and hopefully final) tragic, incorrectly resolved ending). mike is finally taking control of his romantic narrative in a way he hasn't previously, and the direction it's heading in now is toward security, self-actualization, and will.

so the point of all of this is: nothing is as simple or straightforward as it may seem on the surface. the narrative has always been deeply complex and layered with subtext and symbolism. and most of all, when interpreting the meaning of anything presented directly to us on screen, context matters.

also uh. yeah, mike gay

#byler #mikesbasementbeets posts #parallels are there to be noticed. but that should be where the analysis begins. not where it ends.#this got kinda long i just wanted to be really thorough bc this kind of 'parallel = 1:1 similarity' thinking is way too prevalent #this is less an analysis and more me explaining the plot of the show but. sometimes it feels like it needs to be explained lmao #yes i lied about the ending but when you eliminate the only claim negating that conclusion....#that's. i mean that's the conclusion.#(btw the difference between comparative and experimental investigations is that in an experiment one of the variables is fixed.#something to think about)#mike wheeler

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secondhandsorrows · 4 months

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3 Quick Tips on Writing Dialogue

Okay… so one of the biggest writing hurdles I often face is writing dialogue. Good dialogue. I know such a statement can be pretty subjective, but there’s something to dialogue that demands attention. There’s things involved like subtext, purpose, characterization, and sense of realism. On the other hand, there’s also character voice, expression, body language, and dialogue tags (sparingly, if you can)… all of which can be important, too. Sometimes it’s tricky for me to get a handle on writing dialogue that sounds natural, less stilted, and more as though the characters are real and conversing like we humans would (not to say dialogue should include unnecessary filler-words and repetitions we tend to overuse in our day-to-day conversations).

Today, I’m going to share three quick tips I’ve accumulated from research and from my own experiences in creative fiction workshops on improving your dialogue.

1. Avoid needless filler-words and phrases.

Let’s just get this one out of the way. I know this was already mentioned a few sentences ago, but it needs to be further cemented. This is the kind of fluff that we use in day-to-day chatter, like misused grammar, useless small talk, and talking in circles that, more often than not, comes across as boring and trivial. We may think this is a good way to create realistic dialogue, but alas, there is such thing as too-realistic dialogue. Focus instead on crafting dialogue that sounds as natural as possible. At least, try to get rid of the fluff, or use it with caution, as it may bog down your pacing and slow down your readers.

This doesn’t mean you can’t utilize some small talk, repetitions, filler words, or speech patterns like stammering. Rules are sometimes meant to be bent, just a little. It can be used to create distinctions between unique character voices, lighten the mood, express an emotion that is being felt, if you know where to put them. Dialogue can — and should — be personalized to each character.

This brings me to the next point:

2. Refrain from revealing too much information at once.

Not only is this considered info-dumping, but giving away a ton of detail in a piece of dialogue can come across as stiff and out-of-place. Though it may seem convenient to utilize dialogue as a way to pass information to the reader without getting all repetitive or boring within the narrative, it tends to break away from what the character (or a real person) might actually say. Especially when it’s given to a character that has no reason or incentive to recite drawn-out exposition to give the reader some background. This can be attributed to being uncharacteristic.

Try tweaking it as to fit your character’s voice: their mood, how they communicate their values, which aspects they find more important to discuss, which topics they actively avoid or tend to overlook. Also keep in mind who they’re speaking to, and whether or not they need to hear the information, as well.

3. Think about what is being left un-said.

Now, I’ve mentioned subtext quite a bit, already. Subtext, as the definition goes from Literaryterms.net, is “the unspoken or less obvious meaning or message in a literary composition, drama, speech, or conversation.” Knowing this, we can implicitly communicate to the reader covertly a truer meaning or mood within a conversation or interaction between characters: that a character is smiling through a grimace trying to look as if he’s enjoying what his friend had cooked for him when in reality he’s forcing it to spare their feelings. Or, when a woman says “she’s fine” when actually she’s not fine (real). Her answer is forced, her tone clipped, her arms are firmly crossed and she’s angling herself away. How about when a character is pining for another? They might stammer over their words and are prone to blushing whenever they’re around.

There’s a lot of different ways you can go about using subtext. I probably could’ve added a lot more, but all I want to say for now is that the beauty of subtext allows to stir interest and to further character examination, especially in dialogue. There is more that can be said, but the characters may choose not to. It could also be used to hint at the reader, to foreshadow, facilitate themes, make contradictions, to build tension and emotion… there’s internal conflict that can be explored here. Let your characters tell their own stories in their own, unique ways.

That’s all, for now. Hope this helped!

#writer tips #writing process #creative writing #writing advice #fiction #character dialogue #writing #writing dialogue #dialogue tips #writing tips #character #on writing #story tips #subtext #writeblr #books #bookblr

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poordeadsejanus · 5 months

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tigris hating the new snow (colour symbolism + minor meta from this scene)

i'm so deeply obsessed with so many of the colour choices in tbosas movie.... like wow! one day i'll talk more about them, but one i want to pull out and talk about right now is tigris' colour scheme in her last scene. the one where she's wearing this:

(the picture is not great quality, i'll update this when i have a pic that's more than 2 pixel lol, but it shows what we need to see)

she's got on a light purple/lavender dress with dark blue stripes. blue and purple are usually associated with wealth and royalty (given the historic complications that came with producing them).

purple is especially representative of royalty and wealth, and tigris' outfit is mostly purple, symbolizing the new (wealthy) life that she's found herself in.

blue, along with it's other meanings is associated with melancholy. we know that tigris is unhappy/heartbroken/disappointed with snow's changes, so this link makes sense. it is also a passive colour, showing us that she is passive in coryo's transformation into snow -- there's not much that she can do about it anyway, but i digress. the deepness of the blue implies something tumultous, which gives us an insight into what she's likely feeling: relief at being out of poverty, happiness for coryo's success, but a deep sense of uncertainty and unease at this new snow persona that he's adopted. finally, it can also a colour of peace, which i take to mean that she's sort of made peace with what she cannot change about him, regardless of how she may feel about it.

now we get to the standout of this outfit: the red lip!

usually we see tigris is lip colours that are complimentary to the other colours she has on from what i recall; when she wears pink, her lips are pink, when she's got on dark magentas her lip colour matches/compliments it. the red lip here is clearly an intentional choice as it is a contrasting colour that stands out brightly against the mostly subdued/cool-toned rest of the outfit.

red can be recognized as the colour of passion and anger. the fact that it is on her mouth is certainly trying to show us something. what she says to snow here is "you look just like your father, coriolanus". it is clearly a dig, clearly meant with negative intent, with anger. she is heated! this is the little boy she grew up with, that she protected, that she loved and he's morphing into something sinister before her very eyes. if it wasn't clear by what she said, the subtext behind it, and the way that she said it, the red lip indicates her anger here.

it stands out as a little piece of rebellion against just accepting snow the way he is. she is clothed in colours that show her wealth and complacency with the changes that caused them, but she isn't entirely willing to let it go all the way.

also, she wears warmer colours for a lot of the movie -- pinks and the like -- and now she's in more cool tones, which is an obvious choice being made. she loves coryo (perhaps not snow so much), and she is letting herself be swallowed up by this new life (symbolized by the royal colours and new wealth), but she has that little bit of her that is clinging to the past, that wants her coryo back.

her (minor) dissent against snow is verbal, it is subtle and not exactly obvious to anyone except her and him, in the same way that the red lip is a subtle way of emphasizing her displeasure with this new snow.

she chooses her words very carefully, tailoring them to be a direct referral to her convo with coryo after the arena ("i know you wanna be like your father, but, what i remember the most about him, was that in his eyes it was just hate. you don’t have to pay the same price just to survive. people can be good. you can be good"). snow is like his father, who tigris remembers most as having hate in his eyes. coryo didn't have to pay the same price just to survive, he could be good, but he paid that price anyway.

in the full quote from her last scene, tigris says "i think you look just like your father, coriolanus." This stuck out to me because I don't really remember her ever calling him by his full name often (maybe just at the start when we get the "future president of panem" thing). it seems like perhaps he insisted on; he's not coryo anymore, he's coriolanus snow -- no, he's snow; it could also be something tigris did intentionally. either way, it shows that he is not her precious, still-able-to-be-good coryo anymore.

another interesting thing from this scene is her positioning. she does not rise for him, instead remains sitting at her sewing machine (someone look back and see if its a new machine or if she's using the same one as before!!). she does not rise to greet him happily like the Grandma'am, she remains seated, clearly showing her displeasure at the new snow. plus, usually rising when someone enters a room shows respect; tigris does not rise, ergo she does not respect him!

this also makes me believe that she is not making his clothes anymore (she's at the sewing machine, clearly she can make the clothes, but he grabs the coat out of the closet, showing that it's not a tigris snow original creation). it's a contrast to how we first see adult tigris, rushing up to coryo with a shirt she made/modified. now she keeps her distance and doesn't give him clothes. this shows that huge huge huge pit growing between them. once again, this is not her coryo anymore.

i'd assume that she initially was offering to make/alter his clothes, but somewhere along the way he refused. it's a sign of the hard times when all he had to wear was too-small shoes and potato-starched shirts sneaked in with curtains to be bleached. buying new clothes shows power and wealth and coriolanus' 'impeccable, well-bred, respectable taste' that comes from being a snow.

regardless of the how, she's not doing his clothes anymore, she's displeased over the new snow, he's not her baby coryo anymore, and the distance between them has never been bigger, not even when he was all the way in 12.

#the ballad of songbirds and snakes #the ballad of songbirds and snakes meta #tbosas #tbosas meta #coriolanus snow #tigris snow #tigris snow meta #coriolanus snow meta #panem #panem fashion #the capitol #president snow #coryo #snow lands on top #suzanne collins #thg meta #thg #mine

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brainrotallthewaydown1312 · 2 months

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I need to talk about this right here for a second.

When I first got into Lockwood and Co, it was cot3 propaganda that convinced me to actually watch it. Specifically, I saw a lot of people talking about the subtext and some people debating if there was some intentional coding. I knew very little about the show except that it was ghost detectives and that there were a lot of people talking about this polyship. And as I watched, I definitely saw it. I quickly got invested with the ship too, but I realized early on that it was not purposeful subtext. It was definitely there if you wanted to read it, but it hadn't been written in on purpose and it wasn't really canon. Which is okay. I don't need all my ships to be canon, and I really enjoy the dynamic the characters all have either way.

But then I got to the last episode. And listen. I'm ace and arospec. I am all for big professions of platonic love and platonic love saving the day. And I'm also all for multiple readings of everything being valid, especially when it comes to the readings of character relationships and dynamics. But the way the whole catacombs sequence plays out first with just Lucy and George and then with Lockwood when he gets there, I legitimately can't understand how to read that besides them being in romantic love.

First you have Lucy's speech. And this one I do like multiple readings for. I get seeing this as relating to romantic shipping, but to me, it feels like someone who is stating their love for someone and that love could be any context. But the way she does it is so important to me. She gets right at what he felt bad about and told him why it was wrong and asserted that he is important to her, and then reinforced it with logical context instead of more emotional details. Because he needs evidence to believe something, and she knows that about him. She knew exactly how to say it to him so he'd hear her.

For me, the next important thing for what I'm talking about is when George runs to her after she passes out from ghost visions. He is still bound, but he gets to her so quickly, and he gets so close to her. He is so desperate for her to be okay. The way he talks to her. The way he huddles into her space like he wants to scoop her up and hold her. How he says “it's me, I'm here” showing that what she had said sunk in because he wouldn't have thought that a comfort before and now he does. How when her eyes pop open, he visibly relaxes for a moment before remembering where they are. The way they huddle together, shielding themselves from the danger. There is something in all of that that just feels like there is something unexplored that they are finding between them. It feels like this is a moment where the stakes shifted from where they had been. Not higher or lower, but different.

This feels reinforced by the conversation they have when Bickerstaff is ghostlocking them. The way they both apologize. How desperately they both mean that apology. How they are accepting their fate, grateful to have their lives tangled together. How they are still so close together. Again, I can still see multiple readings for this bit.

But then Lockwood gets there.

And he saves them. Because of course he does. And he has his dramatic moment because he's Lockwood, and he can't get by without one. And this happens

The way they both run to him as he falls. The way he catches them. How they all slide together perfectly.

The way they crowd into him. The way George is crouched below Lockwood even when he falls. The way Lucy is purposeful but careful with his arm. How she leans into him and her hand on his stomach.

The way Lockwood is so defeated here but still looks at Lucy like she is his hope. How she says “we won't let you” not “I won't let you” or anything else. We won't let you.

The look on George's face. George's ragged breath and the way he is crouched against Lockwood. The way he is staring into Lockwood's soul.

The way Lucy looks at George here. The way she confirms the decision to make this a moment for all of them. The way George's eyes shift, but not away from Lockwood. The way his voice tears from his throat when he says “never.” The way he pushes up into Lockwood, trying to get even closer, even when they were already pressed together. The way Lockwood looks like he is accepting something new in this moment as he understands how much he is cared for by both of them.

I just don't understand how this could be read without the implication of that shift happening. All the other moments of subtext are passable with other reads. But something about this specific moment with the three of them on the ground in the catacombs. I don't know how this could be anything but them being in love and sort of each realizing for themselves the extent of that.

I think what makes it so difficult to wrap my head around other readings for this moment is watching George here. At his desperation and fear and the way he shoves into Lockwood at the end there. Because it's an obvious locklyle moment, but Lucy made the effort to include him. And he was ready to be included. And he was so desperate for them all to make it out so that it wasn't too late for him to realize he was loved too. And that little push really sells it for me.

And I know that it makes sense for the character beat that George is at and as follow up for the scene leading up to it between George and Lucy. But even with that context, it feels like this specific moment only makes sense if there is something non-platonic growing between all of them.

And like I said, I know that cot3 is not canon. And that it wasn't being written for in either the show or the books. And I'm okay with that. But I have no idea how to categorize this scene in my head knowing that, because I am incapable of seeing this scene any other way.

#Lockwood and Co #cot3 #cot3 analysis #they are so special to me #someone needs to give george karim a hug stat #im off to go write fic about it because i have Felings about these three

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kingofanemptyworld · 2 months

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Rin, identity issues, and the complications of being an isolated, alienated teenager

It feels sort of weird to say but I generally don’t head canon characters as having particular sexualities. Whatever people go for in fics is usually fine with me - gay, lesbian, bi, pan, something more general like queer. As long as it makes sense for the story they’ve built and the character they’ve shaped to fit it, I’m good. Unless you’re ignoring a canon LGBTQ+ sexuality, in which case, yeah, I’ll take issue with that.

But anyway. Rin.

I’ve got my personal ship for him (BonRin my beloved), but regardless of the pairing I see him as bisexual. He’s so open with his infatuation with Shiemi, and okay, sure, fandom likes to ignore the love interest in shounen for the most part because we’ve got gay ships to peddle. But I don’t see the point in that unless it really reads like it’s a front, or a result of a character suppressing themselves for one reason or another. And with Rin, I think it’s pretty clear his affection for Shiemi is sincere. You technically have the in-universe evidence of the demon that brought out his true desires to back that up, but even without it, Rin likes her. It’s complicated because of Yukio and Shiemi’s own inexperience with romance, and yet I never once doubt he really likes her.

That being said… he’s very appreciative of the guys in his life, too. (Peddling my gay ship here) Bon in particular, considering he’s often admiring how cool he thinks Bon is, that his haircut suits him whether it’s the blonde rooster look or the undercut. If you don’t want to see it as romantic interest, that’s your prerogative, but to me Rin comes across as seeing cool and cute as different traits he finds attractive (in Bon and Shiemi respectively).

I also think his bisexuality would fit neatly into his narrative struggles to “pass” throughout the early parts of the series. Rin has grown up as the neighborhood problem child, ostracized for being violent, and eventually he decides he’s fine with just his brother and his father — and the rest of the monastery, presumably — for company. (Except that’s absolutely not true and clearly he’s starved for friendship and support.) People looked at him and saw a monster, even before his demonic heritage made an appearance; why would he bother giving them even more ammunition when it comes to reasons to hate him? So no matter when he figured out his attraction to guys, he’s not going to lean into it, because he also likes girls, right? (Ignoring for a moment that bisexuality is a lot more nuanced than that.)

Rin likes girls, Rin is human — that’s what’s going to get people to like him, or at the very least tolerate him. That he likes guys, that he’s half demon, he can shove that shit down and pretend it doesn’t exist. Lock up any stray thoughts and keep the sword sheathed around anyone who doesn’t already know.

(Excuse me for being amused by Rin wielding his humanity and supposed heterosexuality as a sword and shield.)

The problem, of course, is that he can’t keep up the facade forever. The narrative won’t let him. Rin has to embrace his demonic side, because it’s the only way to move forward and to continue to help his loved ones. And once he’s moved past the issue of his friends being upset over the deception, when they understand he’s still Rin despite what he’d hidden from them, Rin is finally allowed to be himself. He uses his flames, he lets his tail move freely in the open around the Cram School kids. Rin still doesn’t like this side of himself — it’s inextricably tied to every moment of pain and isolation he’s dealt with his entire life, including the death of Father Fujimoto (and, y’know, his mom). But he is moving forward, he’s trying to adapt.

And isn’t that some great fucking subtext for his bisexuality, too?

#king’s court #blue exorcist #ao no exorcist #okumura rin #rin okumura #bonrin #because I love them #anyway thanks for coming to my ted talk #I probably made more sense in my head than I did writing everything out #but oh well #there’s a similar conversation to be had about yukio and his suppression/obsession that develops #but I am not qualified for that one #also I promised myself when I made this blog that I’d try to be engaged with the fandoms I got into #because the one I’d sunk a lot of time and effort into on my main no long brings me much joy and I miss interacting with people #so. uh. here I am I guess #god this is probably less compelling than my season 2 analysis of bnha seven years after it aired

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kaisfruit · 5 months

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Distraction | Kai x GN!Reader

warnings; none! except maybe ooc kai and i apologize for that!

words; 1.6k

Talking things out is hard. Is there any other way to reach out and make sure someone else is there to catch you?

“Hey Zane,” the nindroid’s head whipped around at the sound of his name, “do you need anything from the grocery store? I’m making a list.” You lifted up the notepad with said list on it as if trying to prove what you were saying to be true.

As he took his time to think, you walked further into the kitchen and began checking around trying to make note of what items to get.

“I’m not sure…” Zane mumbled. “I think we could do with some more eggs and most likely some more deli turkey…” He continued thinking aloud, a hand on his chin as you wrote down things as he kept going with his list.

“Thanks! I knew you’d be the right guy to go to for this.”

“Why is that?”

“Oh, you’re usually the one in here cooking for us so I just assumed you’d know what we were low on.” You explained, a light smile on your face. “You're good for our necessities, but I feel like I should still ask anyone if they want anything.” You added on in a mumble to yourself, already thinking Cole would want some cake mix and Jay would want some kind of chips. Those two were next.

“Ah, I suppose that makes sense.” Zane nodded in his understanding. He did know what they needed, well, after he thought about it for a second. “Well, while you’re here, do you have any requests for dinner? That is, if I have time to make it.” Zane added on that last part hastily. He really did consider cooking a hobby of his, but he knew he would put a lot of things ahead of what he actually wanted to do.

You thought for a second before slowly shaking your head. “Honestly, I’ll be happy with whatever you decide to make! I’m just grateful you choose to cook for all of us. Especially since-” Your train of thought was cut off at the feeling of arms wrapping around your waist. You practically jumped out of your skin at the contact before settling when a familiar scent enveloped you as the ninja rested his head in the crook of your neck.

“Kai, what are you doing?” You asked with an amused tone as you let a hand come up to run through his hair. You felt him mumble something against your shoulder and you rolled your eyes. “Sorry, Zane.” You sent the nindroid an apologetic glance. “I’ll let you know when I’m back from the store!” He nodded and waved bye to you, a smile filled with mirth on his face. You returned the wave and began walking towards Kai’s room with the same ninja in tow, his hands not leaving your midriff.

Locking his door, you turned around in his hold so that you could cup his face in your hands and look at him. “What’s up?” You asked casually, a contrast to the intimacy of your guys’ holds on one another.

“I was bored.” Kai answered with a yawn. “And tired. Thought you’d help with both of those things.”

“Did it ever occur to you that I’m busy?”

Kai pretended to think for a second before shaking his head. “Nah, doesn’t sound right. What do you mean your entire world doesn’t revolve around me?” He joked, a dumb smirk on his face. You just rolled your eyes affectionately at him.

“Whatever helps you sleep at night.” You patted his cheek and pulled away from him which caused a look of shock and hurt to cross his face.

“Wow.” Kai said in mock disbelief. “Y’know, that stings. Got me where it hurts, [name]. Right where it hurts.” He clutched his shirt around where his heart would be on his body. “Might as well just tell me you want me dead.”

“I want you dead.”

“Wow. Here I am, wanting to spend some precious time with my most stunning significant other and they’re telling me that I should just die and rot alone and that they don’t love me anymore and-”

“Shut up!” You said through laughter, holding a hand up to his mouth. “You’re putting words in my mouth.”

“It was the subtext.” Kai explained when it very much wasn’t the subtext. “You have wounded me. I don’t know if I’ll ever recover.”

“Oh no!” You finally played along. “Whatever shall I do to fix my one true love?”

“Come lay down with me?” Kai asked, clasping his hands together and giving you the face of the puppy eye emoji. You let out a sigh, but begrudgingly held out your hand which he took excitedly as he brought you over to his bed. He flopped down onto it without letting go of your hand which just brought you both down at the same time with you landing on top of him. Both of Kai’s arms wrapped around you and effectively left you trapped as he rolled over on his side so that you two could face one another. The fire ninja rested his head on top of yours and let out a content sigh. You didn’t need to pry to know that he needed this outside of just being bored.

Slowly, your arms came to wrap around his midsection as you allowed yourself to relax while you rested your head beneath his chin. You could feel as all signs of tension within Kai’s body seemed to dissipate and the warmth that naturally flowed through him became steady as it flowed onto your own skin. It was a nice feeling knowing you could help him in this way at least since it was outside of his comfort zone to talk it all out. Kai just needed a way to recharge his battery and what better way to do that than being in your presence.

Minutes passed of you two being locked in the peaceful embrace. You were nearly asleep even by the time his voice pierced your ears.

“Would you rather have feet for hands or hands for feet?” Kai asked casually, causing you to snort. “What?! Answer my question!”

“Where’d this come from?” You attempted to ask while pulling yourself up so you could look him in the eyes. That only caused him to force his head on top of yours so you couldn’t do that, so you backed down with a sigh and decided to focus on your finger that was making circles along the fabric of Kai’s shirt.

“I’m bored.”

“I thought you said I’d cure your boredom?”

“And you are…by answering my question.” You could just hear his shit eating grin in his voice.

“Your question is stupid.”

“You’re stupid.”

“Fine. I’m not answering.” You shoved your face into the crook of his neck. “And I’m going to bed so you’ll be stuck in silence for hours.”

“Wait no!” Kai quickly yelped. “No you’re so smart and I didn’t mean it I promise…Please talk to me.” That last part was added on quietly, but due to your proximity you heard it anyways. You sighed and lifted a hand up to run through his hair which you felt him lean into.

“Fine. I’d rather have hands for feet because that’s basically what monkeys have and if they’re doing it then I can do it.”

Kai was the one to let out a huff of laughter this time at your answer. “You answered it like you’ve always wanted someone to ask you that question.”

“I’ve been thinking about my answer since you asked the question.” You admitted, finally letting your hand just rest on the top of his head. “I was just giving you a hard time.”

“You’re evil.” He accused to which you just laughed.

“But you love me.”

“Wouldn’t you like to know?” Kai huffed, but you knew it was a yes. Even though he couldn’t say it, as he couldn’t say most things pertaining to how he really felt, you could feel it. Feel it in every interaction between the two of you, with every word he spoke, every action he took. Kai was built out of pure love for those around him. There were a million words he wanted to say to all of his friends and probably a million more to say to you alone, but it was hard. It was those moments where he felt the most vulnerable and that vulnerability only led to more self-doubt which plagued his every waking thought. He could feel his hold on you get the slightest bit tighter as his thoughts began to scramble in his head once more.

“Okay, would you rather have every food taste like soap or only use food as soap for the rest of your life?” This one had you laughing once more which brought a smile to his face (and also brought him back to the present despite him asking the question beforehand.)

“Okay, umm, I need to think about this one. Hold on…”

And part of you knew that Kai was only trying to distract himself by asking these questions and you really should try to help him by asking what was wrong. But hearing you two laugh as his ‘would you rather’ questions got more and more absurd quieted that part down. This was helping him, in its own way. All thoughts of getting groceries or getting any other chore at the monastery done had left your mind as you enjoyed your time with the fire elemental. Seeing him happy, a true kind of happy, made you happy. In fact, you can’t remember the last time you had this much fun. Of course, Kai would have to work through his issues eventually, but for now this was enough. Spending time with him was enough. Caring for him was enough. You were enough for him.

A/N; first post done!! tbh i am working on a sportacus (from lazytown 💀) x reader that is like,,,7k words long atp LMFAO so i'll probs be posting yhat at some point. likes + reblogs r appreciated and please do leave requests if ur enjoying my writing :]

#ninjago #ninjago x reader #kai smith #kai jiang #kai smith x reader #kai x reader #imagine #headcanon #oneshot #fanfic #x reader #scenarios

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xoyalanztov · 10 months

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Just watched barbie and I am going through so many emotions right now.

SPOILERS AHEAD:

Okay so. This movie is a lot more than I thought it would be? like yeah I definitly expected the feminist subtext but they brought out the P word? saying the word Patriarchy out loud is like putting your hand on the stove, but I'm so happy they included it. Because this movie reflects a point where a lot of us are at in our lives. We are growing up, watching the people around us getting radicalised and its such a difference from what we used to be. How kind we used to be.

And Barbie is great at reminding us of that. Greta is so clever of never falling into the trap of saying: people are selfish, or all men suck. She knows what people will say about the movie, so she already added her rebutalls in, which is really clever.

The patrirachy affects everyone. This is a fact. Women live as a walking contradiction, cognizant of themselves and others at all times (with "an undertone of violence"), and we are so scared. All the time. It's exhausting be here, especially if you're an immigrant in a first world country, because you are constantly being reminded of how much better you have it. What people don't understand is that it's not enough. We deserve more. When the Barbies were getting their Nobel Prizes they were so confident, so assured in their right for recognization of the amazing work they've done, and just. I want that. So bad. I want to look at something and say I earned that.

And the Ken's were just this backdrop charecter, and it was achingly similar to how women are often presented in media. When Ken went into the real world he saw that he could be respected, could be loved, so of course he wanted that. This just shows that unbalanced societies will find ways to even themselves out, and those ways won't be great for everyone. But it does pose a great question for all "alpha" men: Who are you without the grind mindset, your podcast and your minifridge stocked with beer? Who are you? What is your life's purpose? What have you done with your life so far? You can do anything, and you are free to do anything. You don't have to work 80 hour weeks. You don't have to work yourself to the bone. Ask for help. Ask for compassion. Its ok.

And the way the movie makes fun of Mattel?? Aboslutely hilarious. Yes Barbie started out as a woman that could do anything, but she was perverted into this shell of herself, so that all that mattered was how much she would sell. This subtle dig at capitlisim is great, and the showcasing of performative activisim is top tier.

I think that at the heart of it this movie is about the thing that most great works of art are: human connection. The connection between mother and daughter, how it may wane, but if it is fostered and treated with respect it will flourish. Gloria loves her daughter. She gives her the speace she needs, lets her daughter grow. And her daughter understands that she needs that space, but also jumps to her mothers defence. Ken just wants to be loved, just wants someone to be there for him. Barbie helps him through that, and in the end, where Ken almost throws himself off the roof, Simu's Ken helps in persuading him not to, despite their bitter rivalry. Because love has many forms, and shouldn't just come from one person. Because we are more than a forgotten kiss.

Don't even get me started on the montages. I am so happy to be human. I am so in love with everything and everyone.

#barbie #barbenheimer #greta gerwig #margot barbie #margot robbie #ryan gosling #ken #america ferrera #chaotic academia #desiblr #desi #desi academia #school #everything is poetry if you write it truthfully enough #poetryblr

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baiwu-jinji · 2 months

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i apologize in advance if this ask sounds kinda weird, but i'm kinda curious to hear your thoughts on how the narrative treats qi rong, mostly because i think interacting only with the eng version/fandom might take some context from his character. i've seen people complaining that some fans woobify him too much, others complaining that some people treat him as a pure hate-sink when he's more than that. while i do think he's a multi-layered character, i do sometimes get the feeling that mxtx did not go easy on him, with the revised version being even crazier than before (some even say he was given a bit of onesided incestuous subtext with xl, but i wonder if that interpretation isn't just the result of weirdly translated lines in eng). i think this might be because he strikes me as a meta personification of sorts for toxic fans who place their identity and self-worth on just one person they completely idolize, and when that person is shown to be imperfect they immediately turn against them, and we know mxtx has had experience with those kinds of people.

i do think he's largely meant to be seen as unsympathetic overall, though i think there's strong nuances with his character as well. since his childhood he always lacked something and never really had a well formed identity, his prince name being symbolic of his life. he projected himself onto xl in life, and he kept on absorving the worst traits of the people around his life without really understanding them in order to feel powerful and important, from the xianle nobles to the signature traits of the other calamities. he also strikes me as very... "little brother"-coded, in the sense that he keeps looking for any sort of recognition and seems unable to mature. even when he hates xl i think he still somewhat craves his attention, and qr only developed a bit when he was forced to let go of this role by accidentally becoming a father instead. i think it's also interesting that he started out a lot like his father, but ended up sharing the fate of his mother.

i do wonder how the cn fandom views him and if he's nearly as divisive as he is here. i'd also be pretty interested in seeing some meta about him from cn fans. again, it feels like some context is missing by not speaking the language the book was originally written in...

Hi! I think the narrative basically takes the same stance as Xie Lian in its attitude towards Qi Rong, which is the sort of "I can't love you but I don't want to hate you, the best I could give you is indifference". I agree that Qi Rong isn't meant to be lovable, but MXTX isn't dismissive of him as a character either - she devoted almost an entire chapter to Qi Rong's death, let him speak his mind, and gave him some form of closure.

Qi Rong having onesided incestuous subtext with XL (!!) in the revised version is...very interesting haha, I haven't read the revised version so I can't know (someone please tell me where to get the revised version ><). Although I want to speculate that even if there is some incestuous vibes, it's not truly sexual - it's probably libido directed the wrong way when you're lusting over someone else's identity, but not over that person per se. Qi Rong lusts over XL's identity in the sense that he wants to be XL - or rather he wants to be perfect, worshipped, all-powerful etc. (bit of digression, there's an underrated psychological thriller called Cracks starring Eva Green, if you watch it you'll know what I mean)

I don't have the impression that he's truly divisive in the Chinese fandom, but then I don't engage with the Chinese fandom that much so I could totally be wrong. And I don't think any context is missing for English readers either (except maybe the humour of QR's obscene language might be lost in translation?) because human nature is the same everywhere, and Qi Rong's distorted psyche is more a matter of human nature than cultural context.

As for Chinese fandom's view of QR, there's this great meta I translated and posted a few days ago, and I found some other opinion pieces about Qi Rong on Zhihu (Chinese equivalent of Reddit), as you'll see they're quite diverse.

A lot of Chinese readers say that what stands out most about Qi Rong is his comedic role in the story because his cursing and name-calling are really funny; a lot of people also mention being really touched by his self-sacrifice to save Guzi. I found this one post that has a similar view to yours, which is QR represents MXTX's toxic fans:

"I always felt it's the author admonishing her fans in an implicit way not to be as crazy as Qi Rong [...] My guess is that the author can't ask her fans outright not to act in this way because that would hurt people who support her but are immature, however she can't turn a blind eye to these people going around provoking more resentment, so she creates QR to remind her fans not to be like QR, or they'd appear as unlikable as QR to the public. But the author still feels symathy for thse fans, so she didn't depict their representation in the novel as totally incorrigible - QR retains some humanity and is a little adorable when he starts to care about people."

I also saw opinions about the narrative (or rather Xie Lian) not going easy on Qi Rong, like this one:

"Xie Lian is clearly a very good person but why is he so heartless to QR? He eventually treated QR as a joke and a burden, but QR was once a true follower of his. At first I thought XL was perfect and cares about everyone, but he never really cared for his cousin. When I read that XL felt neither joy nor sorrow when QR died saving Guzi, my heart chilled. If XL could forgive the masses who betrayed and reviled him, why can't he forgive his cousin who once followed him whole-heartedly?"

There're also people saying that Qi Rong's potential divisiveness is what makes him a great villain, like this post:

"What MXTX's well-received villains have in common is a tragic childhood and not being loved growing up, and they only have a soft spot for one person. Although these villains did horrible deeds and are unrepentant, they all reserve some kindness in their heart for the only person who's good to them. This contrast is striking and touching, yet most likely to cause controversy. Therefore, MXTX knows very clearly how to create a memorable villain, and I admire that."

Someone else says when they read about Qi Rong they "don't know whether to laugh or cry" (XL's signature emotion hehe). They add that "this is where MXTX is successful in writing a villain - you both hate and pity him; he's infuriating, but you don't really want to see him die either."

Another view is that since Qi Rong has no filter, he sometimes serves as the truth-telling voice. For example, when XL wanted to keep Lang Qianqiu in the dark about the truth of the Gilded Banquet Massacre, Qi Rong blurted out the truth.

There's also a question posted on Zhihu that asks why people like Qi Rong, and there're some interesting answers. There's one post that says "I find him attractive because he's depicted as alluringly ghostly in a lot of fan art like vampires in Twilight" haha

Another post says they like Qi Rong "because he's guilelessly wicked, while XL and Hua Cheng are hypocrites" emmmmm

Another one says they like Qi Rong because "being Xie Lian is exhausting, he's so wronged but he just endures it all, while Qi Rong just launches verbal assults whenever someone rubs him the wrong way, it's so cathartic. The most difficult thing in the world is to be a good person, because as soon as you do one thing wrong, everyone criticises you; but if you're a bad person, even if you did just one good thing, everyone praises you for it and shows you pity".

#qi rong #xie lian #tgcf

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multiversefandomsrandomness · 3 months

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Melissa O'Neil and Eric Winter never expected Lucy Chen and Tim Bradford to get together on The Rookie. When the ABC police procedural debuted in 2018, Chen and Bradford were paired up for the first time as rookie and training officer, respectively. And while they have both made strides professionally, a growing legion of fans began clamoring for them to become more than just colleagues — so much so that creator and showrunner Alexi Hawley pivoted to a slow-burn romance.

"When this all started, there were these hashtags, and it's funny because we, as actors, threw around #Tucy and #Chenford early on, but it was really us playing with the fact that we were partners," Winter told TV Guide in a joint interview with O'Neil. "The fans truly grabbed onto it from Day 1 and said, 'They're a couple! This needs to happen.' And we're like, 'How?! I'm so mean to her. I'm bossing her around. I'm a jerk all the time.' I don't think it really set in for us until they entertained it."

There have certainly been a few close calls for "Chenford" fans over the years — including a fake confession scene, where O'Neil and Winter were convinced that Hawley was ready to pull the trigger on their characters' relationship.

"At that point, [the chatter] was really happening online, and we thought for sure that maybe there was subtext," O'Neil recalled of shooting that scene. "We were asking [Hawley]: 'Is this a true confession that she's masking as a thing?' And he goes, 'No, it's not. This is a joke.' So I don't know when it clicked. But I was surprised because even at that point, it was not a thing."

The fans finally got their wish in Season 5 of The Rookie. Now heading into the show's sixth season, which premieres Feb. 20, Chen and Bradford's work-life balance will be put to the test — and fans definitely won't want to miss the milestone 100th episode.

In their first in-depth interview, which took place during the Television Critics Association press tour in Pasadena, O'Neil and Winter chatted about the evolution of Chenford, how they work together as scene partners, and Winter's unexpected love for TikTok.

Let's get one of the most important questions out of the way: Who do you think fell first?

Winter: I get asked this all the time. [To O'Neil] I'm sure you do, too.

O'Neil: I don't get asked this.

Winter: I always say Lucy.

OK, let's say Lucy fell first. Can you pinpoint a specific moment when you noticed a shift in this dynamic?

O'Neil: The first time Lucy ever played it — or that I intentionally played it as an actor — was definitely at that kiss moment. He was so cruel to her so many times that she was like, "I have nothing to do with this dude." And then there's that moment where there's physical intimacy, and then chemistry does what chemistry does, and now she's looking at him in a way that she didn't before. But there's always been love.

Winter: The only reason I say Lucy fell first is Tim has so many walls up, and he went through such a bad situation with his ex-wife. Tim had to let a lot more down to go: "I'm going to really let myself get to this place again with a partner and somebody I'm in the force with." I feel like that's my only justification, but I don't think either of us really know.

O'Neil: Yeah, there's not a point I can pinpoint from an actor perspective. And even when I think about all the times that Lucy was going out of her way to express her care, I really think that's just her character. The only time I thought it was a little weird — and I tried to fish around to be like, "Why is she behaving like this?" — was when she followed him. I think it was in the pilot or shortly after.

Winter: When I'm going to his ex-wife's?

O'Neil: Yeah, I show up, and I'm like, "What are you doing?!"

Winter: But I do think that was an early part when fans started to go, "There's something there. Why is she, as a rookie, going so far away out of her way to protect this guy who's such a jerk to her? What does she see in him that she might like?"

O'Neil: You know what's a fun tidbit? The first time that Chen and Bradford got into a fight — it was the first fight where she's saying that she's going out of her way to try to save him, and he's giving her shit for it, for suicidal ideation or something like that. She's like, "I was trying to protect you." [Richard T. Jones, who plays Wade] was like, "I saw right from that scene that you guys were going to be something." And we were like, "What are you talking about?" Richard's the original Chenford person!

When you play work partners who eventually become romantic partners, there's an important shift in physical and emotional intimacy that has to occur. Compared to last season, do you feel like there is a difference in the way you approach these "Chenford" scenes this season?

O'Neil: I'm super conscious of a lot of those choices, because personally, as a woman, I am very different with my romantic partner than I would ever be with a work person. So I've actually really enjoyed having the opportunity to play that difference. It's been really fun to figure out how to layer in that kind of intimacy in a work environment that's not obtuse and on the nose. But if you know what's going on between them, you're like, "Oh, that was cute, the way they looked at each other at work."

Winter: We've been very, very mindful of trying to be true to what it would be like to be them at work as a couple. Also, [we're considering] Tim's past, her past, and how that bleeds together. It's something we do take very seriously as far as trying to keep it as authentic as possible. As actors, I think the only way it's shifted is that we're more aware of it.

As characters, I think it's part of the fun of the storyline — the fact that it is awkward at times, or maybe we're trying to be a little bit affectionate out in public, but then we pull it back. We have to do our job, and we have to take our jobs seriously. [As Tim] I can't treat her differently. Even though she's my girlfriend, I'm a sergeant, and she's supposed to follow my command. There's a lot of things that you can play with.

After 100 episodes, you are certainly two of the only cast members I can think of who are still in a lot of the scenes together. What do you think you bring out in each other as scene partners? What do you think are the keys to fostering that sense of trust?

O'Neil: Eric and I are both dragons. This is our [Chinese zodiac] year. I am saying that because we learned that about each other on the pilot. We've always had a shorthand, and we're very open to collaborating. Or rather, I would say, Eric's very patient and gracious [laughs] with me when I'm like, "Hey, can I pitch you something?" But he's always down to workshop a scene, and I really appreciate that.

As their relationship has unfolded, we're navigating a lot of different things that require a certain degree of familiarity and intimacy — even just relationally. We recently shot a scene [in episode 606] that was super vulnerable, and I really feel like our friendship has facilitated the ability for those scenes to go deep in a way that's honest and true.

Winter: We both care a lot about the show and these characters. So we collaborate well together. She likes to pitch me a lot of ideas.

O'Neil: [Laughs.] He's so patient!

Winter: She wants to run my lines all the time before I've learned them. [O'Neil laughs.] I'm patient with that, because we learn lines very differently. But look, at the end of the day, we had a big scene this season with each other, and she said, "Hey, can I talk to my scene partner for a second? I want to talk to you about something." So that trust is important. But you're right. I didn't even think about what you just said, but it's true: We're the only two characters that have been together since Day 1.

O'Neil: Oh, wow.

Winter: [Alyssa Diaz's] Angela lost her rookie, [Nathan Fillion's] Nolan, as you know, has obviously moved on with different people, and [Afton Williamson's] Bishop is no longer here with us, so there's a lot of changes. Listen, we've been so fortunate that they're crafting such good strong characters for us that it hasn't ever gotten boring. I could sit in the shot with [O'Neil], and we're doing the pod car scenes, and every time we have a blast. It always feels fresh and new.

What new layers are you finding in your characters — both individually and as a couple — this season?

Winter: What we're gonna see, and what I like, is a lot of authenticity about a couple learning how to navigate these waters of growth in career and as a couple. I just know that in real life, in my own relationships, it's not always easy to navigate changes in careers and relationships. I'm not saying changes in respect to [Chen and Bradford's relationship specifically], but it could be a different position, like being detective, whatever it is. These are jumps in a job that can take a toll on a relationship, and given Tim's past with his ex wife, it's a lot. So I think it would have been a shame to not feel them go through those challenges and try to navigate that as a couple, because that's what you want. You want to see real couples have real problems and figure it out. Her being a detective is a tough thing for Tim to go through.

Tim diving more into his past is always an eye-opener for me to know why he is the way he is and the challenges he's always kept everybody away from. We're diving into a lot of that to understand more about him as a person, and [Lucy] is helping to bring out a lot of the best in Tim to help him navigate that.

O'Neil: This season, Lucy's going through a set of circumstances that we've never had the opportunity to see her go through. Even as the actor who's going through the paces with her, I'm doing things and feeling things that I have not explored prior. Half the time, I'm like, "How am I going to feel when I get there?" And I don't know, because I haven't even been in a lot of these situations myself. So [as an actor] you want to get squeezed in that way, and I've enjoyed it. In all transparency, I have also felt really vulnerable at times, because some of the stuff that we're touching [on] are things that I don't think I would ever elect to show my co-workers, let alone a bunch of human beings watching it at home.

What can you tease about the 100th episode?

Winter: We dance! We have a good dance with a nice little confessional of information. Tim opens up to her a bit during the dance.

I don't think we ever saw any of the other characters react to news of their relationship.

Winter: We've talked about that, actually.

O'Neil: Yeah, I do feel like that's a bit of a loss that they didn't do that.

Winter: And by the way, I don't think Tim knows about Nolan [previously secretly dating Lucy] either.

That was going to be my next question!

Winter: I think that would be an amazing episode. And I would love for that episode to come out!

O'Neil: I mean, I feel like it would have to be a flashback at this point.

Winter: Because I think there's so much gold to mine in that discomfort, just as a guy in my own life —

O'Neil: Wait, wait! With where they are now though, I feel like it would have to be a flashback. She must have told him by this point..

Winter: Nope.

O'Neil: [Looking slightly horrified but also unable to suppress her laugh.] Are you serious?

Winter: It's never easy for a guy to find out that he's dating someone that is his current friend or coworker's ex that he didn't know for all this time. I think that's the beauty of it. You didn't know how to tell me about it, and Nolan definitely is not going to tell me about it, and there's so much fun to have with that story. Just an episode of it would be so fun.

O'Neil: Yeah, that would be funny.

What are some of your favorite Chenford moments?

O'Neil: I love the false confession. I think it's hilarious, and we had a blast shooting it. I will never forget watching playback and watching his face respond. The way that he was responding made me laugh even harder. I thought that scene was just so well-executed. Anytime we're in the pod car, we're knobs, we always have so much fun, and it's fun for everybody else. It's a blast.

Winter: It's called Pod Car Karaoke when we're in the car. We're goofballs. We sing constantly.

O'Neil: So loud! The second they yell cut — and sometimes even when they've already yelled action, we're still listening to the radio lip syncing. It's bad.

Winter: There's been so many great, fun Chenford scenes. I loved saving her in the barrel.

O'Neil: That's a stunning moment.

Winter: That's a great scene. That was such a great episode for her, and I think it was just such a pivotal moment again for them and for the fans. Me giving her the ring back, which was one of her pitches.

O'Neil: That was a pitch! I pitched that!

Winter: She said, "If we could bring the ring back, it'd be such a cool thing because he found it out there." I don't want to get in trouble for that, but that was her idea.

O'Neil: We did that on the day though. I'm always pitching stuff!

Winter: And that was a great one!

Eric, you recently joined TikTok and have become a bit of an overnight sensation with fans. What made you want to join the platform now? And when will we get another Chenford TikTok?

O'Neil: This guy used all of us to make his TikTok huge. [Takes the phone recording the conversation off the table and puts it in his face.] Tell them why. This is the time to plug.

Winter: [My wife] Roselyn [Sánchez] pushed me to do TikTok, no question about it. I have never been [more] negative on a platform about my life. I was like, "Never will I join TikTok ever."

O'Neil: He thought it was cringe. [Puts phone down.]

Winter: I'm launching a rum in April, and I was like, "I want to be able to reach my fans and talk about things I'm doing." I feel like maybe it resonated because I was so anti-TikTok, and then my first TikTok was very much about me caving. What I've noticed that the fans respond to [is content that] is so opposite of Bradford. They're so confused by what they're seeing. A lot of them are going, "I don't know if I can look at Eric the same way anymore." They're seeing this goofball side of me, but on the show, I'm clearly not. On Instagram, I don't do any of that.

O'Neil: Instagram is his family Facebook page.

Winter: It's like, "Here is my life. These are my friends! This is what I do!" And then I'm just a weirdo on TikTok. But [Melissa] loves TikTok.

O'Neil: I had burner accounts. I wouldn't go public with it because he teased me so hard that I was like, "I don't have a TikTok."

Winter: Yeah, I would tease her. Jenna [Dewan] is obsessed with TikTok. And now I get a lot of credit for recruiting Mekia [Cox] and Alyssa.

O'Neil: You did recruit Mekia and Alyssa because they're in their mom era, and they were both like, "Why is Eric doing TikTok?!"

Winter: Because they knew I was so anti-TikTok! They were like, "There has to be a reason!" So I recruited them. [points at O'Neil] I didn't recruit her to the platform, but I did inspire her to start doing more and get back on. Inspire might be a big word, but I got her back on.

O'Neil: I haven't found the right audio yet to do a Chenford TikTok, and that's why we haven't done another one.

Winter: I'm trying to get Tru [Valentino] and Richard on. But I'm glad you're enjoying my alter-ego.

I would ask who is better at TikTok, but I think Eric is in the lead right now.

[Winter laughs maniacally.]

O'Neil: He is in the lead because he's just using everybody!

Winter: Did you see my latest one? Did you see my jail one?

Yes!

Winter: I'm actually proud of the jail one. I came up with the jail one myself. I found this [audio], and I was like, "I think I'm gonna do this, and it would be really funny with Alyssa because we're like besties on the show, and then she's telling me to calm down." I'm actually not just doing them. Sometimes, there's a thought process to what I'm putting out there. [Laughs.]

The Rookie Season 6 premieres Tuesday, Feb. 20 at 9/8c on ABC. Episodes stream the next day on Hulu.

#the rookie #lucy chen #tim bradford #chenford #melissa o’neil #eric winter #meleric

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twentyfivemiceinatrenchcoat · 29 days

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just out of curiosity – why do you like sukugo??

i've just never seen any of the accounts i follow/my mutuals celebrate this pairing so i'm really curious!

:))))))))) i smiled so wide getting this ask anon. PLS DON’T BE ALARMED just take my hand and let me tell you abt two deeply violent homoerotic men….

okay so when it comes to sukugo i just. ADORE their dynamic and relationship. it’s one of my favorites in the entire manga and i truly think akutami COOKED with it . not only the shinjuku fight itself (which is, ofc, what sold me on the ship) but also the foreshadowing beforehand!!! like sukuna telling gojo that he’ll be the first one he kills…. the two of them making the same kind of pose in their respective volume covers (vol. 4 & 14….. another parallel which is even more devastating when you remember that the number four is associated with death in japan)….. both of them being referred to as ”the strongest.”

i actually didn’t pick up on a lot of it until we got to shinjuku!! but i just think akutami teased at their importance to each other so well and so early on.

WITH THAT BEING SAID . their dynamic. their parallels. yes. they’re both the strongest and the most isolated and those two things are synonymous. it ties into one of the most central themes of jjk that equates absolute strenght to absolute solitude — it’s a kind of curse. a curse and a blessing. and they both have it.

the main difference is that gojo knows what it’s like to be understood and loved — but sukuna doesn’t. so he can’t feel lonely. he’s never known what it’s like to not be alone. but gojo has!!! gojo has felt love and felt what it’s like to be understood, and when geto died a part of him died too. he’ll always be lonely. he’s the loneliest character in the series. and when he looks at sukuna he sees the exact same isolation that’s plagued him since the moment he was born. so what does he do about it?

he tries to teach sukuna about love.

^ and THAT’S . the most delicious dynamic ever. i take no criticism. i’ll die on the hill that this concept and their dynamic is one of the absolute highlights of jjk. it’s so GOOD. it’s so insanely good. gojo wants to teach sukuna about love/cure him from his solitude by killing him. and vice versa. it’s inherently violent and inherently tender and it makes me INSANE. to me that’s the greatest appeal of sukugo!!!! violence as tenderness is a trope very near and dear to my heart (and also VERY frequently associated w queer subtext in media…. just putting that out there……) and they do it so good. they have a blast killing each other.

also i just NEED to say how much i love the ”teach you about love” line. it’s one of my favorites in the manga and akutami utilizes it so well!! he repeats it over and over as foreshadowing and to build up the sukugo dynamic. the final reveal that gojo is ”the one who will teach [sukuna] about love” made me weep (even though it was so obvious)…. it’s just so deeply. idk. it just says so much about gojo as a character :(( the fact that he wanted to teach sukuna about love. i’ve seen some people who think that part is ooc but i disagree completely!! gojo has never concerned himself w the morals of others. not really. toji kills riko but gojo still has a respect for him and allows him to say his final words. he never hated geto despite his crimes. he supports yuji fully no matter how many people die because of him. etcetc. same with all his students.

gojo looks at sukuna and sees someone who is just as alone as he is. so deeply, deeply alone. him wanting to change that is not ooc in the slighest because that’s quite literally what drives gojo as a character:

he’s just such a genuinely good person at his core. and it coexists with the way he sometimes disregards morality. this is a hot take but i genuinely think gojo’s character blossomed fully in his battle with sukuna….. i don’t see him as ooc in it at all. he genuinely wanted to reach sukuna!! he knew he was the only one who could even hope to do so. and he tried his best.

and, i would argue that he succeeded.

SEGWAY TIMEEEEEEEEE LET’S GO. okay so let’s talk abt one of my favorite panels in the jjk manga, the panel that solidified sukugo as one of my favorite pairings Of All Time:

(two diff translations bc i love them both :3)

THIS. wow. wow. wow. i could talk abt this panel alone for hours and hours but i’ll try to be coherent……

there’s just? so much meaning to be found here??? for both of them????? not only is it a fundamental moment for gojo — being praised and acknowledged and accepted as himself rather than the strongest — but it’s also proof that gojo did reach sukuna!!! he’ll remember him forever. sukuna will never fully be entirely isolated because even millenia into the future he’ll still remember gojo. gojo nestled his way into sukuna’s heart.

and that’s just . so romantic isn’t it???? so beautiful???????? this is the culmination of gojo’s efforts; the most genuine expression we’ve ever seen on sukuna’s face. he actually looks happy.

i cried seeing that panel btw 😭😭 not a joke!! i was already crying when i started chapter 236 bc i knew how it’d end but this panel (+ the one w geto cheering gojo on in his cult leader fit) made me SOB. not exaggerating. i’ve never cried so much reading a manga… T_T

so!!!! yeah. i just love sukugo. their dynamic is so interesting and beautiful and i can never get enough of it. sometimes i love it more than stsg… don’t tell geto that though……..

#i also really love the idea of sukuna getting seduced by a lanky gay guy #but that’s besides the matter.#TYSM FOR ASKING ANONNN ILY #i love talking abt these silly guys #i miss them :((((#ask tag ✩#sukugo

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thesoftboiledegg · 7 months

Text

"How Poopy Got His Poop Back" was OK. The plot was generic, but after 61 episodes, I'm not going to expect every outing to be a mindblowing sci-fi spectacular. Sometimes, it's nice to have a lowkey episode that catches up with old characters, especially since we thought two of them died in season two.

"Squanch! Told you he wasn't dead." The writers knew what we were thinking. I also thought Gearhead died at the end of "Mortynight Run," but I guess he's harder to kill than he looks.

I enjoyed checking in with Bird Person and Bird Daughter--looks like he's got his hands full--and was glad that Rick continued his character development from season six. He's still a hot mess, but he tries to do the right thing for his friends and even the robot ("Hang on, let me go upstairs and grab the business finisher.") The subtext gave the episode some depth so that it wasn't just twenty minutes of pointless hijinks.

Rick's new voice actor nailed his characterization, too. His voice stood out a little at first, but I'd forgotten about the new actor by the second act, and his voice sounds "normal" upon rewatches. I guess it just takes a short adjustment period.

Whatever the case, any drunk guy at a bar can burp and stutter like Rick, but the new actor (whoever he is) picked up right where Roiland left off. He might not sound exactly like Rick 100% of the time, but combining Rick's trademark blunt raspiness with his lower, gentler tones from the past few seasons is more impressive.

Speaking of actors: who voiced Mr. Poopybutthole? He sounded EXACTLY like Justin Roiland. Maybe it was the same actor who voiced Morty, who also did well.

On another note, I loved seeing Space Beth eating breakfast with the family. Ditching your kids to be a pirate/rebel/space badass/whatever isn't the feminist act that a lot of shows seem to think it is, and I'm glad that Rick and Morty subverted that trope. Space Beth can love her family AND save the universe. She's a modern woman who wants to have it all!

On to Morty. I don't have much to say about him, and this review suggests that he doesn't have much to do next week, either--which hints at a continuation of season six's biggest issue. Season six was great, but half the episodes were The Rick Sanchez Show. When Morty did appear, he didn't have much to do until he finally lost his patience in the finale.

I won't dive into his dynamic with Morty because you could write pages of meta on that one, but in summary: their dynamic is the core of the series, and I hope the writers don't keep separating them. C-137 Rick's attachment to his Morty is a sharp contrast to the other Ricks who treat theirs like disposable toys.

Back to this episode: Rick's doing better--he's dressing and showering, he's communicating with his family, and he's even willing to abandon his search for a few hours--but Prime's still the center of his universe. Season five also started small and concluded with insane twists that turned the show inside out, and I'm betting that this laid-back opener is the start of a similar acceleration.

This episode alone made up about a fourth of the trailer scenes, so goddamn: what aren't we seeing?

#rick and morty #rick sanchez #morty smith #how poopy got his poop back #review #season seven

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chirpsythismorning · 1 year

Text

Noah saying, "I don't think Mike likes Will back" doesn’t equate to him not knowing about byler being endgame, and here's why.

Noah and a majority of the main cast have been given a rough idea of how the show will end, broadly in terms of the entire story, but also more specifically in terms of their personal character arcs.

Actors are out here acting. This is nothing new.

Any of the the main cast insisting they have no idea how the show ends at all, are lying. This is because their safest bet is playing dumb.

There's nothing safe about them revealing they know how the show ends, least of all to an audience that is dying for any spoiler they can get their hands on. It just puts them in a position to have to think very carefully about everything they say, which is something they already have to do regardless.

It's a lot easier to just say you don't know, because then you can give vague answers or even just flat out lie and get away with it, as opposed to saying you know and then having everyone take whatever you say as gospel since you admitted to knowing what's coming.

David is pretty much the only actor who goes around explicitly saying that he knows how the show ends, which is something he's been doing consistently since s2 premiered back in November of 2017.

Something David has also mentioned on a few occasions since then, is how much input the Duffer's let him put into his character. He's literally praised them for having a collaborative process, because it allows him to play Hopper more authentically.

And so yes, I do think it's safe to assume that the Duffer's extend this approach to their other cast-members as well, at least among the main cast-members. I do not at all think this is some exclusive treatment only David gets, because this seems like more just something the Duffer's do out of respect to the actors. How else can they expect them to portray their character accurately if they don't know what they're going through or what their motives are or what's right for them going forward?

We obviously won't know all the details about who knew what at what times or how long they've known certain things, until they themselves come out and reveal after the fact, if they even do it at all.

Still, I do think that when it comes to byler actually happening, it's going to be very satisfying for fans who saw it coming.

This is because we're dealing with something the Duffer's are predicting a good portion of the ga will be bitter about, with the main argument at the forefront being that Mike and Will came out of nowhere.

And so, how do you think they're going to combat that?

With the literal proof.

They have David, who has been used happily as their main scapegoat through the years, whose words are literal proof that things were planned for quite some time. We have him saying all the way back in 2017 that there are easter eggs in the first season which we won't understand until the end, how it's beautiful and surprising and it will explain why certain characters acted certain ways...

Not only that, but there's just no way people are going to be able to use the whole 'it came out of nowhere' argument (at least without looking like idiots), because we'll have the Duffer's themselves out here confirming shit like blue meets yellow in the west and other theories that were entirely intentional (as we predicted).

And because of this, I think I can guess roughly how things will go moving forward and it's honestly already panning out in some ways I expected.

Because while season 4 ends in a way that seems to be leading towards Mike and El ending up together from the perspective of the ga, there are numerous details in the subtext and just outright in the literal text that's trying to tell us this is not actually the case.

And so now the Duffers and everyone who knows are in this limbo of tricking their audience in plain sight, hoping to keep this act going for as long as they can, and that's obviously not easy to do.

What I think makes it most difficult is that they want to surprise fans, but they also want them to be satisfied and happy with the ending.

And that is why the whole Milkvan straight bait is indeed very near its end.

If they want ST to live on as a cult classic with rewatch value, they can't keep this straight bait going on into the last season.

They'll want Mike and El to definitively give off platonic elmike for s5, with byler being endgame and Willel being wonder twins.

This is why Mike and El's dynamic HAS to blatant in a way that will come across as platonic to the ga in s5. And the shift needs to be immediate, otherwise byler will not be satisfying.

I feel like a lot of bylers already predict this, which is why a lot of us assume that the milkvan breakup with happen (or be acknowledged as having already happened) as early as 5x01 or 5x02.

Honestly, I do think that Will's painting being plastered on merch recently was one of the big moments which is representative of a shift we're already seeing start to happen. We're going to continue to see milkvan be promoted as elmike, while byler is being promoted in a way that is, well byler.

What I think is most noteworthy in terms of how they're approaching this conflict going forward, is how the actors themselves have talked about it when asked.

For example, there was one Con specifically that I remember Noah attended right around when Vol 2 dropped, where he mentioned byler at least 3 times. Two times when asked and one other time unprompted.

And no one ever talks about this, but full serious you guys, it was dead silent at that con whenever he mentioned byler. There were maybe a few hoots and claps, with Noah literally looking kind of worried. It was obvious he noticed the silence the first time it got brought up, and so he felt the need to mention it a second time when asked about what he shipped and then AGAIN, with a note of defensiveness in his voice:

"Byler is just, at it's peak right now, okay, so definitely ship that--"

And while in the background, all you hear is maybe 2 bylers supporting him, otherwise, it's mostly crickets...

Let's try to remember that while Byler is a lot bigger now undoubtedly, unless you're active online, most of the ga does not see it coming. And so byler is by no means fan-service. If anything it's show-runner service.

This means Noah had literally no obligation that day to go all out with referring to byler in a positive hopeful light, nor does he still. And yet he did and he hasn't slowed down much since.

His approach makes sense. Because his character has been revealed in canon to be in love with the other, he can freely say he ships it and even take the opportunity to hype it up in an attempt to open peoples minds to it, who might not have considered it before. And he can also do this because in canon, Will assumes Mike doesn't love him back, so Noah can just co-opt Will & the ga's assumption that Mike doesn't feel the same, and get away with it, without anyone whose close-minded giving it a second glance as evidence.

If they wanted to avoid queer-bait and get people to not look at byler that way, they had the chance to. A majority of the ga didn't read byler romantically and so they could've just kept things casual by not bringing it up, nor humoring it at all.

The byler tag didn't even hit 30k followers until AFTER vol. 2 dropped! Most people were oblivious (including bylers).

Undoubtedly, Noah in particular around that time, was a big part of why people started to look deeper on their own and it's how a lot of people ended up here, now with 277k of us.

Like seriously, listen to me ya'll, Noah would NOT put himself in a position to broadcast his support for byler like this and the Duffers would probably be begging him not to, knowing he would be subject to a lot of criticism in doing so, if byler was not in fact where the story was going. Point blank, period.

His tweet "vol 2 got me shipping byler over everything' has to have been the most obvious stunt of all. He was not saying that to be quirky or to appease a few thousand people, he was saying it to wake up the hundreds of thousands that might be open to it, and who just need a push to see what's right in front of them.

Then we have Millie's approach. Her approach for a long time has been to say stuff that she thinks the audience wants to hear, that being anything pro-milkvan. And up until Vol 1, she was still mostly on board with referring to it in a super positive light.

She also insisted during s4's run that she has no clue how the show will end (lies, Millie is a good actress pls give her more credit), and this also explains why she's tended to feel somewhat comfortable lying about milkvan positively...

Though as Vol. 2 neared and ever since, a shift has started to happen, where in interviews Millie is getting a lot more into depth and real about El's personal arc. She mentioned right before Vol 2 dropped that El was insecure in her fight with Mike at the start of the season because she thought he only considered her a superhero and didn't see her as more than that.... Then more recently she has doubled down saying that she is her own superhero, having been shaped a little too much by the men in her life.

SHE IS OUT HERE SAYING WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS (SOME YEARS)! SHE KNOWS HER CHARACTER BETTER THAN ANYONE!

Honestly, even though I understand they are trying to trick people into thinking they're clueless and so I guess I'm happy for them that they've succeeded in that, I can't help but admit I feel a little disappointed upon hearing some bylers say that they are convinced Millie doesn't know, but that Finn does and even Noah does, but that she's entirely in the dark about it and that they're okay with this I guess?

First of all, why would anyone be okay with that? Why would we be okay with Millie not having insight into where her character is going. What, do you guys think they're just going to pull up on her at the last minute like, "yeah sorry we didn't tell you sooner, but this is where your character is going to end up. anyways back to byler!...."

I don't care, it would seriously be fucked up to keep her in the dark about this because El IS important to the story and Millie, just like everyone else, deserves that closure so that she can understand her character better and therefore perform to the best of her ability. She also deserves a say somewhat in where she feels her character should go, just like David has said the Duffer's afford them.

Now lastly, when it comes to Finn, I think most assume at least he is aware of byler, and I do agree he knows, so let's start there.

Again, we don't know when they found out and so for now I don't feel like going too far into guessing the exact point and so I won't. However, I do think that Finn also as of late has had an approach that manages to somehow be very different from both Noah and Millie's, and for reasons that also make a lot of sense.

Because Finn's character is assumed to not return Will's feelings, he has to be more careful than all of them. This is arguably why he goes to the least cons out of everyone (most recently everyone attended a con in person, with Millie present over zoom even, but no Finn or Noah... seems very intentional at this point).

Why I think they need to be more strict with Finn in particular is because he's in the exact opposite situation as Noah.

His character is assumed to not return Wll's feelings, and so he can't go very far with what he reveals. What we've got up to this point is actually quite revealing enough as it is, which is why that's all we're getting for now.

What I find interesting is that Finn's approach is quite similar to David's. I know Noah is known for spoiling things, but arguably Finn is just as bad, he's just a lot more sneaky about it. He has a harder time lying, which is why I think he actually looks uncomfortable when asked milkvan questions. Not necessarily because he doesn't ship it like lots of bylers assume, but because he's having to dance around and lie outright and he probably feels bad.

His most common approach though is that he likes to make jokes and say things that could be looked at from multiple perspectives, where it could be looked at now as milkvan evidence, while simultaneously being looked at from the future as byler evidence. Him saying 'I think everyone knows how Mike feels about Eleven' was him quite literally gaslighting the audience just like Mike did with El in s4:

'I care for you so much" "I say it" "You know how I feel about you--"

But do we? Do we really? Or does the audience THINK they know, and so Finn can get away with saying something cryptic and vague like that? When really, in the future, everyone will be laughing looking back because to Finn and all the cast, it was actually abundantly obvious Mike's feelings for El were platonic and his feelings for Will were romantic.

Same for his response when asked if El and Mike would be together and happy in season 5. He dances around it, doesn't deny it, but also doesn't confirm it. Instead of just being like yes they will (which is what we're being led to assume is inevitable at the end of s4, and so he has no reason to dance around it), he starts by deflecting, talking broadly in terms of the stories overall ending, only to say he hopes they find happiness... Again his answer fits with the ga's assumptions now, but it also fits with the surprise of byler in the end as well.

Also important to note that Finn and Noah are the ones to repost about the show most out of everyone from the main cast. A LOT. In fact, they were the only main cast-members (besides Brett LOL) out of everyone to repost about the episode title name for 5x01 being released on ST day...

And it's because THIS is their character's big revelation going into the final season and they had a say in it going this direction. Even if it's what the Duffer's wanted all along, they still gave them and everyone to an extent, a say in things. And now that it's all slowly happening, they are front and center standing by that decision, because they insisted they could do it and wanted to.

I can't say for certain that things will just be smooth sailing from here on out though, by no means is everything just going to shift completely.

There is still undoubtedly this element of the Duffer's and everyone wanting to have the pleasure of tricking the audience. In an industry where everything that happens is usually expected and predictable and therefore rarely exciting, and with an audience that is always figuring stuff out before their supposed to through leaks and stuff, byler is something they have finally been able to successfully trick most of the audience to think will never happen. And that is fucking impressive when considering the heaps of evidence.

And yet still, they don't want to be yet another show that is considered to have a bad ending.

So, going forward, I think things will continue the way that they are, but we'll slowly see them be more comfortable in this element of acknowledging endgame in a way that will be easy to look back on positively when everything is all said and done.

Because if byler is endgame, IF they want people to look back and go oh Oh OH during all those moments where they misread things, but now they can see the other side of it, there needs to be more of an approach that gives Byler equal playing field and allows the ga to actually start to appreciate it and even want it and root for it. Which means buh bye predictability and heteronormativity and hello surprises and gayness (but also be open ended about it so the homophobes will stay tuned until the last second).

#stranger things #byler #rambles #stranger things 5 #st5 headcanon #even though i think it's weird so many bylers are convinced everyone in the cast is clueless #i don't blame yall #that's what they want everyone to think #and they're mostly succeeding #i'm not going to go too hard in messing up their approach here #bc this is how they want it to go down #believe what you want #regardless i would hope that considering the hate that is going to follow #they're going to feel obligated to state the obvious and admit that bylers were right #either they'll be honest about everything and lay it all out there #or they'll be vague and tell people to look into it themselves #idk if they're going to go the cryptic approach #but i seriously doubt it seeing as they're the type to hold a master class explaining their thought process #and also literally give out entire white boards revealing the entire inspiration of their series #so like... i know bylers are stressed and tired and annoyed being called delusional #but trust me i think it will be worth it in the end #you will be vindicated and validated

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