#tw discussions of homophobia

[strangersteddierthings]

The Conversation

Final Part of The Interview [Part One] [Part Two] [Ao3]

Steve finishes putting on his boots, shoves a beanie on his head, and grabs his thermos of coffee before heading outside. Robin had texted when they left Pendleton so they should be arriving soon, and he wants to make sure the dogs stay clear of the driveway, and also finish some of the chores he is being lazy about. The mountain air is cold in February, and the snow is deep, but it's still warm for a winter day in Eastern Oregon.

His childhood house had been at the edge of a little forest. His current home is tucked away in the woods, trees for miles, and the nearest neighbor farther still than that. He's lived a lot of places, been able to see the whole of America almost, and in the process, he's learned that he'll always be a small-town boy. The real revelation is how at home he feels in this two-bedroom cabin sequestered away from any town at all. Sure, he's got to drive a little over half an hour to get to the nearest grocery store, but he's learned he likes that.

He's got 1600 acres of woods all to himself and the dogs. He's owned this property for almost four years, but recent events made him finally move out here. Originally, he'd bought it to make it as another flip project, but something in his gut told him to make it a vacation home / safe haven for his family instead. Robin, mainly, as a getaway from the LA life and overwhelming spotlight she'd started to face as her music career took off. He might be turning it into his permanent home and base of operations, but everyone knows they're still welcome.

Anyway, the day might be warm for winter, but the night won't be, so Steve sets his thermos on the top of the wooden railing of the porch and heads down the steps to the woodshed. The plan in the summer is to update the cabin, which includes adding central air and a good heating system, but until then, portable heaters are in the bedrooms and the wood stove gets the rest of the cabin. There's also plans to start the construction on the guest house. It's going to be a busy summer.

He replenishes the woodpile on the porch from the woodshed and debates chopping more but decides against it. That can be a tomorrow chore. Next is cleaning up the snow paths he's made previously. Doesn't want anyone falling on their ass on the way to the house, no matter how funny that'll be to watch. As usual, Pancake makes the task difficult because she wants to play with the snow shovel. Melody cries until he throws snow into the air by the shovel full for her to play in. Chowder, old man that he is, supervises from the porch, front paws hanging just off the top step.

It's rough going but he manages to complete the few chores, even with two dogs underfoot.

Steve is on the front porch, forearms holding his weight as he leans against the railing, thermos of coffee between his hands, taking in the afternoon sun and enjoying the silence when Dustin's work truck slides into the driveway. Almost literally, given the foot and a half of snow still on the ground. The driveway is long, okay. Steve's doesn't have enough time in his day to keep up with salting it all.

It'll be strange to see Eddie after all these years. He still can't believe Robin got him to come. When he'd asked how she did it, she brushed him off with an it's not important.

Speaking of Robin, she's the first person out of the truck, sliding out of the passenger seat and then cursing when she drops right into the snow. She shoots an accusatory look towards the cabin, and therefore Steve, like he placed the snow there himself, when the fault is Dustin, who has left the driver side with plenty of room between the truck and the snowbank.

Dustin gets out of the truck and Steve faintly hears him say this side, man, less snow before pushing his door closed and turning to brace himself as Pancake and Melody rush from the porch to circle like sharks, barely restraining themselves from jumping up. Chowder follows after slowly, taking his sweet time getting to Robin, his favorite human. Steve can't even be jealous about that because Robin is his favorite human, too.

The back driver side door opens, and he watches as Eddie Munson all but falls out of the truck. It's the least graceful anyone's looked getting out of the back of the truck and that's counting Chowder and his old man hips. Seeing Eddie again is- well, it's a lot of emotions all at once, but they're are all overshadowed at the moment by how Eddie looks... well, bad. His hair is longer than Steve's ever seen it, a little longer than mid-back length, but it looks like it hasn't seen a proper hair brush in a couple of days. Even from this distance Steve can see the bags under his eyes. He looks like he hasn't slept in days.

He pushes himself off the railing and meanders down the two steps, waiting for them to notice he's waiting. Robin trudges out of the snow berm and to the front of the truck, where Chowder is waiting patiently for his pets and kisses. Dustin has managed to get Melody to stop hopping in front of him so she can get her side scratches, and Pancake has realized there is a new, third person with a set of hands currently not petting her, and is circling Eddie, waiting for him to reach down and pet her but he just stands completely still, heading tracking her in her circles.

"She's friendly, I promise," Steve calls out, which makes Eddie's head snap up to look for the source of the voice. Well, everyone looks, but Eddie looks like he's seeing a ghost, which. Fair. Steve kind of feels the same way.

"Hello, Dingus," Robin calls as she stands from her crouched position, where she's been cuddling Chowder. As soon as she stands, he starts making his way back to the porch. "I have delivered one Edward Keaton Munson. You are not allowed to ask anything of me for, at minimum, a year."

"Steve! Why didn't you tell me you knew the Eddie Munson?" Dustin shouts.

Robin is scoffing, clearly offended. "Am I not famous enough for you Henderson!?"

"Get back to me when you've run a 24-hour Dungeons and Dragons live stream for charity!" Dustin shoots back, then has to dodge Robin's half-hearted punch aimed for his arm.

Eddie stays silent, looking more pale than when he got out of the truck. Steve's a little concerned he's going to faint.

"You been living under a rock, Dustin?" Steve asks. "My knowing him is apparently the only thing on the internet currently."

Dustin puts his whole head into the eye roll. "You spend a month backpacking with your girlfriend in the southern hemisphere and you never get to hear the end of it. I told you I'd catch up on your drama after I catch up on my DnD Live Plays."

"You also missed me winning a Grammy, you know."

"I thought Steve's thing was more important?"

"You are impossible, Henderson."

"You guys going to argue in the snow all afternoon, or do you want to come inside?" Steve says then places his fingers in his mouth and whistles. Melody and Pancake dash for the front door, where Chowder is already waiting. Dustin, Robin, and a still eerily quiet Eddie fall into line to walk the trail to the porch Steve had cleared.

Steve jumps the steps, grabs his thermos, lets the dogs in, and then holds the door for everyone else. Robin and Dustin breeze past, but Eddie slows, eyes jumping around Steve's face as they just look at each other for a moment. Eddie opens, then closes, then opens, then closes his mouth.

"Hi," Steve offers up, shifting a foot to hold the door open so he can wave his fingers at Eddie.

Eddie swallows thickly, then whispers back, "hey."

"In the house, Eddie. Don't want to let too much cold in," Steve tilts his head towards the doorway.

"Oh, right, sorry," that kick starts Eddie again and he crosses the threshold, Steve close behind.

Robin and Dustin are currently occupying the bench just inside the door, taking off their shoes. Once Dustin has his boots off, he leaves the bench, heading to the kitchen. Eddie seems lost, just standing in the entryway, so Steve takes the spot Dustin just left and proceeds to undo the laces on his boots. He gets one boot done by the time Robin stands, wandering after Dustin once she's hung up her coat, scarf, and gloves. Eddie doesn't move still, so Steve pats the empty spot beside him.

"No shoes in the cabin. Dogs track in enough snow, don't need us doing it too," Steve says, then busies himself with his other boot.

He sees Eddie sit and begin to untie his- jesus, he's not even wearing boots. Just a black pair of sneakers. Eddie unties his shoes in silence, sitting rather stiffly next to Steve.

This quiet, obedient Eddie is not what he expected.

"You want something to drink?" Steve asks, once both of them are free of their shoes.

"No, thank you."

"Alright. Have a seat, then," he gestures towards the couch. The cabin door opens up directly into the living area, which Steve has set up as 3/4th a living room and 1/4th dining room, in that a small kitchen table is along the far wall. Beyond that wall is the kitchen, where Robin and Dustin are undoubtedly helping themselves to his coffee or hot chocolate.

Eddie shuffles off to sit on the edge of the couch, as close to the armrest as he can get. Now that Steve can see him closer, he can see he's added more piercing to his face than just the eyebrow ring he wore in high school. Snake bites, a septum piercing, and a second eyebrow ring next to the original. He's sure that if Eddie's hair wasn't covering his ears, he'd see more metal there. Eddie had hung up the coat he'd been wearing but under that is a hoodie he didn't take off, so Steve can only guess if he ever got those tattoos he'd been planning in high school. His entire outfit is black, which just makes him look sickly in the cabin lighting.

Steve drops himself into the chair facing the couch. It's Melody's favorite chair to curl up in, but Steve thinks she'll forgive him for taking it. There's tension in the room, so he tries to break it. "You look like you've seen a ghost, dude."

Eddie makes a weird nose, almost a whimper or a whine, but before he can say anything, Robin rounds the wall, holding a mug of hot liquid and she says, "Oh, I'm sure he feels that he has. I didn't tell me we were coming to see you."

"Robin!" Steve is shocked.

"What? You said you wouldn't mind getting some closure, so I got him here. Does it matter how?" She takes a seat on the opposite end of the couch from Eddie, making a show of how comfortable she is in the space by sitting cross-legged and leaning back against the couch, in comparison to Eddie who is sitting up completely straight, barely on the couch with how close to the edge he's sitting.

"Yeah, it does! If he's not here voluntarily- if Eddie doesn't want to talk to me you can't-"

"I do," Eddie says. It grabs Steve and Robin's attention and Steve sees Eddie almost wilt under their twin stares. He clears his throat before continuing, "I mean, I would have come still, if she'd told me. I do want to talk to you. Apologize for.... for everything. So much I don't even know where to begin, or how."

"Uhh, this feels like something personal," Dustin says from where he's standing with his own mug, hovering nearby. "Should I be here for this?"

Good question. Steve doesn't care if Robin and Dustin hear what they talk about, but Eddie might. "How about we just relax a bit. How was the drive?"

Eddie scrunches his face, a half confused expression on his face.

"Fine," Robin says at the same time Dustin says, "Tense as fuck."

"Those two things don't seem like they match," Steve says.

Dustin moves to plop himself on the couch in between Eddie and Robin, then quietly curses as his drink sloshes over the edge of the mug. He starts mopping at it with the sleeve of his shirt as he says, "Robin is a liar. The tension in the truck is going to linger that's how bad it was. I'll be feeling the tension every time I get in the rig. Clients will feel the tension when I pull up to their curbs!"

"It was not that bad!" Robin swats Dustin. Successfully this time, since there's no way for him to dodge unless he wants to spill his drink again.

Steve just laughs. "Robs, light of my life, mate of my soul, knowing you and your grudges, Dustin's probably going easy on the description of the tension here."

"Well, there wouldn't be tension if I was allowed to say what I want to say."

"Can we go, like, five minutes without your negativity?"

"My negativity!? I'm not negative, I'm rational and level-headed!"

"You are not sounding very level-headed right now."

Dustin chimes in, "Steve's right. Level-headed people don't have to shout that they're level-headed."

"What say you, Eds?" Steve asks, the old nickname slipping out. He doesn't have time to be embarrassed about it though.

Eddie stands quickly and flings his hands in the air, having reached an invisible limit Steve is unaware of, pacing about the living room as he basically shouts, "Why don't you hate me!? You should hate me! I hate me! I can't- why are you just sitting there, trying to have a-a decent conversation with me? You should be screaming at me! You should be mad! Why aren't you? My fuckin' song ruined your life!"

The silence in the living room is heavy following that, all eyes on Eddie. Even the dogs, who had been in various states of sleep, lift their heads and look in Eddie's direction.

He looks mortified by the out burst, and his face turns red. "I-I'm sorry. I- I'm just, I'm sorry. I need air."

They all watch silently as Eddie jams his shoes back on and goes out the front door without tying them or grabbing his coat.

Steve sighs, deep and annoyed. At Robin and himself. He looks to Robin and she looks shocked by Eddie's outburst. She was watching the door, but turns her head to meet Steve's eye, a small frown on her face.

"Well, it's not like he's going far," Dustin says. "You going after him?"

"I don't know if I should."

Dustin scoffs. "Don't be an idiot, of course you should. We drug that guy to the middle of nowhere to talk to you. He agreed to come to the middle of nowhere even though I could have been a hit man hired by Robin to off him in the woods and he didn't even complain. Didn't even question. I don't know what happened, but I think you two need talk it over."

Steve blinks at Dustin. "Since when did you get so wise?"

"I've always been wise. You just refuse to see it with your ageism. Go. Robin can fill me in on the beef, here in the toasty, cozy cabin, while you two chat in the cold, and freeze your asses off."

"I don't have ageism-"

"Wrong argument to be having, Steve!" Dustin interrupts. "And take another cup of coffee with you. Even if he doesn't drink it, dude doesn't have gloves either so y'know, warm the hands."

Steve does just that. Fills his other thermos with coffee, taking a chance by adding cream and sugar, before putting his boots, coat, and beanie back on. He throws Eddie's coat over his arm and tucks both thermos' against his body with that same arm so he can have a free hand to open the door.

Eddie isn't far. He's pacing back and forth in front of the truck, talking to himself.

Taking a deep breath to steel himself, Steve steps off the porch and makes his way to Eddie. "Hey."

The pacing stops and Eddie turns to look at Steve. They just look at each other as Steve approaches. Steve doesn't stop until he's close enough to reach out and touch before he shuffles the two thermos's to his other arm and extends the one with Eddie's coat on it out.

"Thank you," Eddie says, taking the coat and shoving himself into it quickly.

"Brought you coffee, too," Steve holds out one thermos and after a pause, Eddie takes it, too, then almost instantly brings his other hand up to cradle it, warming his fingers.

He looks up from the thermos and meets Steve's eye. "I am sorry, Steve. I'm sorry for how things ended between us, and for the song I wrote, and for-for not thinking about how people would be able to work out that you were the Steve from Hey Steve. You should hate me for that alone. I'm so sorry for everything that's happened because I didn't think of the consequences."

"I don't- I don't hate you man. Not... not anymore. Not for a long time."

"Well, you should!"

Steve frowns. He wants to argue because who is Eddie to tell him how he should feel? But that's not going to help anything. "When Robin called me. During her interview after the Grammy's and asked if she could tell the truth I never- I didn't know what she meant by the truth. But. Well, nothing she said was a lie, but it wasn't the full story."

Eddie stays silent, seemingly waiting for Steve to continue.

"Those first two years after our breakup were- I'm not going to lie, they were fucking awful. I think I received my first bit of hate mail the very same day Hey Steve released. It was harsh. All from the same person, but sent to my Facebook and my Twitter and Instagram. Guess they really wanted me to read it.

"And then, with each passing day, a new person, new message, just as awful. After three days I deleted Instagram and Twitter. Then I locked down Facebook but like- physical letters showed up at my house. I can't lie, it certainly felt like you'd ruined my life."

Eddie makes a wounded sound at that. "That's because I did! What I did was unforgivable and-"

"You don't get to decide for me if I forgive you or not!" Steve snaps. "I haven't actually said I did forgive you, did I? All I've said is I don't hate you."

That gets Eddie quiet again for a moment, then he says, "you ended up hospitalized because of me."

"Robin said I ended up hospitalized, and that's true, but it wasn't- It was more complicated that just being your, and your fans', fault. For people who were supposedly on 'your side' of our breakup, they used a lot of homophobic language. That's how my mom found out. The letters were easy enough to just get rid of because all the bad shit was on the inside, but someone sent a post card, and mom collected the mail that day. It's... I don't like talking about this."

"Then don't," Eddie is quick to say, "you don't have to explain anything to me, or make yourself relive these events. It's- you don't owe that to me."

"I think I need to. I wrote you a song, said I'd do it all again, and I meant that. I want you to understand why. Just. Just give me a minute."

Eddie nods and takes a sip of his coffee. He looks pleasantly surprised and takes bigger drink before his face falls into a frown as he stares down at the thermos and Steve has to look away. He turns and squeezes his eyes shut to continue. "Mom showed the postcard to my father, and he confronted me that evening. It was.... it didn't start off bad. He asked if it was true. That I was gay. I made a choice, then. I didn't have to; I could have lied. I could have told him I was straight and that I didn't understand what the postcard was saying, but I didn't.

"I knew how he felt about queer people, and I told him the truth anyway. I was bisexual. I thought it was a miracle that he didn't kick me out instantly. Instead, he calmly asked me if that meant I liked woman. I said it meant I liked more than just woman.

"Then he told me that didn't matter. That so long as I liked woman, I would be with a woman, and that we never had to speak of this again. And I told him no. He didn't get to decide that for me. He said that he would rather have a dead son than a faggot one. And I thought- I never- surely he was just meaning, like, metaphorically, right? Like, he'd disown me, kick me out or something so I scoffed and said- God, I was so stupid. I knew it wasn't safe, but I was so angry at him, I shouted 'dead or alive, I'm your faggot son so deal with it.' And he- he said 'dead it is' and he attacked me."

He hears Eddie suck in a breath, hears the crunch of snow in what could only be Eddie taking a step towards him but stopping after just one step. Steve doesn't know if he wants Eddie to close the distance and give him the hug he knows Eddie wants to do. Steve doesn't know if he'd welcome the embrace or not. He sucks in his own shaky breath, and continues, "He almost beat me to death that night. The only reason he didn't was because mom dialed 911," Steve turns around, looks at Eddie and sees the tears falling down his own face reflected on Eddie. "As far as I know, dad's still serving time for his attempted murder, so like, at least I don't have to worry about him. And mom... I don't even know what to think of that.

"She called 911, didn't want to see me die, I guess, but also couldn't have a gay son. She sold the house, and everything in it, while I was still in the hospital, and just... disappeared. Robin's family took me in. She told that story during the interview, you knoe, but I wasn't even at the house when that guy with the gun showed up. I was meeting with a lawyer.

"She-Mom was- I don't know what she was trying to do but she gave me the family business. The whole company! It felt like she was trying to buy my forgiveness, except she didn't ask for it and still hasn't contacted me. It's like... she felt guilty about what happened but hated me at the same time. Felt she needed to do something to alleviate her guilt? Or maybe she just wanted to cut herself free of the whole Harrington name; free herself from me and my father. I don't think I'll ever get closure for that one."

Steve quits talking, needs to take another moment. He'd already rambled on about more than he meant to but talking to Eddie had always done that to him. Afterall, before they dated, they'd been friends. He sips at his coffee, not knowing what else to say.

"Jesus, Stevie, I'm so sorry. I didn't know- It's no excuse but I'm just so sorry."

He doesn't think Eddie knows he called him Stevie, but it's nice to hear. "So, see, it wasn't your fault. Your song set things into motion, for sure, so it's nice to hear an apology, but like, if anyone is the bad guy in this situation, it's Richard Harrington."

"But Robin said she just had to help you move to here. That you still get hate mail, and doxxed. That's on me. I saw your list of addresses, Steve! You've had to move, like, eight times a year!"

Steve can't help the cackle that springs from him. He surprises himself with the laugh, and Eddie, too, if his wide eyes and eyebrows hidden behind his bangs are any indication. "I- yeah, I move a lot. And yes, this most recent move was because of a brick with Hey Steve scratched into it broke my living room window, but like, I've only had to move because of harassment like, four times, if I'm counting the whole mom-selling-the-house thing."

"What?"

Steve holds up a finger, adding a new one as he counts them out. "Mom sold house. Scary gun guy at Robin's. The year anniversary of your first album's release. I was still in Hawkins, figuring out what to do with all the money I'd, uhh, inherited I guess, so I was easy to find. And the most recent one. Not sure what inspired it this time. Usually, the hate mail resurges when you go on tour, but it's less and less every time. Anyway, none of those other moves are because of crazy fans."

Eddie blinks at him, a picture of confusion. "But I found a YouTube video and that guy- he showed all your old addresses. He said- I thought..."

"Well, there are a lot of addresses. But not because of your fans. I move for my job. Do you... did you even read the truck?" Steve gestures to Dustin's truck and Eddie steps around to see the printed H&H Project Flip and below that is their website.

Eddie looks back to Steve like that answers nothing. Which, fair, but it would answer a lot of questions if Eddie had looked up the website. "After that surge of anniversary hate, I knew I needed to get out of Hawkins. Robin was graduated, then, and headed to college. I decided I wanted to see more than just Hawkins. I followed Robin to college in Chicago, and uh, bought a house. A real fixer upper but that was fine. I had plenty of money to throw into it. On a whim I thought, what if I try to fix it. I had a lot of free time and if it ended up badly, I could afford to pay a professional to fix whatever I broke. I found that I loved doing that."

He's still just being looked at like he's not making sense.

Steve rolls his eyes, "I flip houses, dude. Me and Dustin. Harrington and Henderson Project Flip. I was in Chicago for three years, lots of addresses for that city. But then Robin pointed out there were a lot of states. That I should see all 50 of 'em by renovating a house in each. She'd moved in with her then-girlfriend by this time, so she said I should go. See the States at the least. So, I did. I find it easier to just live in the house I'm renovating, so I'm not paying mortgage and then rent somewhere else in the same city."

Eddie looks like he's had a rug pulled out from under him and he lets out a laugh that's a little hysterical.

"And moving so much has allowed me to meet so many amazing people, y'know? I got friends in all the states. So, like, yeah, you did ruin my life, but like, just my life from 18 to 20. So, yeah, I'd do it all again. Did you think I've been living in perpetual misery for the last ten years?"

"Robin certainly made it easy to assume that, so yeah!"

"I think she did that on purpose. To hurt you back."

"I deserve it," Eddie says. "I didn't even try to check in on you. Well, once, but when I couldn't find you on any socials I just. Gave up."

Steve shrugs. "I didn't reach out either. And if you'll remember, I broke up with you. Screamed in your face that we were over and went home."

"I don't know when, or even if, Corroded Coffin will tour again, but I swear to you, we'll never play or release Hey Steve again. And I'll release a statement, or go on camera, or something, and address this. I can't make it right, but I can make a change starting now, to do better and be better," Eddie says this while gripping his thermos to death.

"I believe you, and I forgive you."

Eddie nods grimly, then looks from Steve to the cabin, and back to Steve. "Do you think Robin will ever forgive me?"

"I don't know. You hurt her pretty badly, too. We were all best friends in school and when we broke up, you cut off Robin, too. And then, when she started to gain her own fame- I think when she first moved to LA, she thought you'd try to reach out. But you never did."

A silence falls over them, and Steve refuses to break it. He's done enough talking. They drink their coffees 'til they're empty before Eddie speaks.

"Where does this leave us?"

Steve thinks about it before answering. "You were my best friend before you were my boyfriend. You'd been in my life longer than you've been out of it. We don't have to be anything. We can have our closure and go our separate ways, if you'd prefer. But, I think I'd like another chance at being your friend."

"I can do friend," Eddie says slowly, like he's picking his words carefully. "I can. But, full transparency, I think I still love you."

It hurts to hear, after all the pain and the time, and it's a bittersweet kind of hurt. "I'll always love you, Eds. I meant it, you know, every word of the song. But I don't know if we can, or should, try again. We were so good until we weren't."

Tears spring from Eddie's eyes when Steve says he loves him, and they don't stop falling even as he's nodding along with everything Steve says. "No, I know. I know. I just, I needed you to know. Friend is, it's so fucking great. More than I ever expected, and certainly more than I dared hope."

"Come on. Let's go inside where it's warm and chat with Dustin and Robin like civilized people. I need a break from the heavy talk."

"Yeah. Me too. Thank you, Steve. For the chance."

Steve shrugs and shoots him a crooked grin. "Yeah, well, ruin this a second time and Robin will rip you to shreds on live TV, probably."

There's more to talk about. More hurts to heal and things to discuss, Steve knows. And maybe after all the talking, they'll learn they've changed too much to even be friends. But that'll be okay, because if that's how it goes, it'll be because they talked it out instead of screaming at each other in a living room.

If they've changed too much, this time, it'll end gently.

It doesn't stop Steve from letting a little bit of hope in. That this won't end, that they can find a way to be in each other's lives again.

As friends, or more.

#steddie #my fic #the interview #prepare yourself for the whiplash of a full tonal shift in the story as we switch to steves POV #tw: homophobia #tw: assault #Steve discusses his assault/subsequent hospitalization. I tried to not go into too much detail but proceed with caution if thats a trigger #there is also the use of the word faggot as a slur #also! there is a point where steve casually says robin has a girlfriend #this is NOT an accidental outing. Robin is an out and proud lesbian singer/song writer/grammy winner #also.... maybe there will be an epilogue? I am debating. #if you wanna be informed on the epilogue #subscribe to the fic on ao3 cause it'll alert you if i add another chapter

[frownyalfred]

i wanted to talk about a bruce and alfred thing somewhere but didn't want to post it so hope it's cool to ramble about it here

so i'm picturing bruce having to grow up with homophobia obnoxiously being everywhere at school and everywhere in general, but also being very aware of his own bisexuality, but never having discussed homophobia or being gay at all with alfred. so, alfred has his guesses but nothing is ever really discussed, hinted at, or addressed. bruce lives a good portion of his life not knowing alfred's opinion on all this, and so for a time he hides any and all gay activity from the world, and more importantly, alfred (+dick if it reaches that far).

one day, though, the paparazzi paparazzis and boom 'Bruce wayne seen with man!', 'Bruce wayne gay sex?', and 'Bruce wayne gay???????' is plastered on every newspaper and television screen and is being discussed everywhere. bruce of course has his public image shifting to think about but all he's thinking about is well. shit. his family knows. fuuuuuuuuuuck

and he goes home and alfred's there, blankfaced, and bruce's face similarly does not display anything readable. they don't address The Hey I'm Gay thing. blah blah bruce losing it in his head for the whole day while in the manor, then when dinnertime rolls around, alfred basically does a 'hey you know being gay is all good and cool right son' speech and bruce internally feels the weight of multiple universes disappear from his back. feels etcetera tearing up hey wouldn't you know it your sort-of dad is also bisexual whodathought

I really like this, anon. Because it’s the kind of thing Bruce would either feel he had to do or would do despite the consequences, yet the consequences still matter. He cares what Alfred thinks.

He cares what his kids think too. Does it matter if they just think he’s gay for the cameras? Does it hurt if they all assume it’s a cover too? Does he need them to see the full picture or not?

#asks #anon #tw discussion of homophobia #bruce wayne #batman #batfamily #alfred pennyworth

[vexy-hexy]

Hey, so am I the only one who's kinda curious as to why we give so much shit to J.K. Rowling for being a stupid TERF (which is deserved, might I add), but Scott Cawthon got off pretty good all things considered for donating to people like Trump???

I think there have been a few times I've brought Scott's shit up and have been essentially told to shut up, that "it's not too bad"...

Unlike Rowling, where every shitty thing she did and still does, it's constantly in our faces and a good amount of the fans (that I've seen at least) acknowledge and admonish her, but the FNAF community (again, that I've seen) seem to not like anyone bringing it up or just brush it off (I think some people are still JUST finding out about the donations because a lot of people seem to try and hide it???), even though Scott has said he wouldn't apologize despite him donating to homophobic, transphobic, and just, all-around bad people who have the power to take away people's rights to be themselves

Just... I feel like we should give the same energy to Cawthon that we give Rowling since they both suck as people, and I’m definitely guilty of not giving Scott enough shit

Like, am I the crazy one here???

#scott cawthon #fnaf #fnaf movie #five nights at freddy's #jk rowling #harry potter #discussion #tw homophobia #tw transphobes #tw transfobia

[mommyclaws]

look as a lesbian I don’t get why it’s so awful to just want lesbian spaces?? We as queer people all have different experiences and we can have smaller spaces while still embracing the whole community.

Lesbians go through different experiences than bi non-men do. That DOES NOT mean “we suffer more” or whatever because I hate the whole oppression olympics shit. We are not attracted to men neither sexually nor romantically, and that’s what makes us oppressed in this heteronormative world. We go through harassment, corrective rape, violence, and conversion “therapy” because we are homosexual. If my dad ever found out I was exclusively attracted to women I would get kicked out. Why is it suddenly so awful and “gatekeepy” to ask us to have our own spaces? We still have sapphic spaces! We even have bi spaces and pan spaces! Heck, I see gay non-women are allowed to have their own spaces!

It’s harmful to be treated as a monolith. I’m not attracted to men, and saying im an “exclusionist” for this is lesbophobic. I’m not evil for being exclusively attracted to non-men. I’m not evil for saying we should have our own spaces while we’d still have sapphic spaces!

Words have meanings, and the lesbian label is important to me, for all of its history and all of my struggles. I’m tired of us all being seen as “big mean lesbians who hate men” so so much. It reeks of misogyny to me.

I am heavily disappointed, and I ask everyone to please understand why bi lesbians are harmful.

I'm disappointed you've missed the point of my post. I was talking about the history of different lesbians and sapphics being excluded and hated in our community through generations. The conversation wasn't about bi lesbians specifically, it was about the butches, transfemmes, Pan/Bi, Aro/Ace, nonbinary, and countless other identities that were or ARE still considered not "valid" members of our community at point or another. I was pointing out how this "Bi Lesbian exclusion" is just a repeat of past mistakes and in the retrospective it is rooted in radfem/terf ideology that claims sapphics have to present and feel a certain way to be accepted. I didn’t say anywhere that being attracted to non-men is evil, I didn’t call anyone a “big mean lesbian”. You’re putting words into my mouth. That entire post was about defending sapphic’s right to attraction and expression.

Lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, non cis women and etc can all be oppressed, harassed, hate crimed, rejected by friends/family and other terrible things for their non heteronormative attraction.

Some people are failing to realize these exclusively “one identity spaces" they feel are being threatened don't actually exist in real life. Sure someone can have like, a "nonbinaries only" discord server or a meet up with friends who are all the the same identity. But a majority of queer spaces in real life? They don't have those rules because theres no way to separate queer identities neatly like that- There isn't a need to. You're going to find bisexuals and pansexuals and nonbinaries and trans people and all sorts of other identities at the same lesbian bar, the same sapphic support group, the same circle of friends.

So what exactly are these "spaces" that every other identity has and lesbians supposedly don't? Maybe ask why bisexuals, pansexuals, etc also being in a sapphic space feels so threatening to some in the first place? They have a right to be there as well. We are a community.

A label can be used and defined as whatever the owner of the label is comfortable with! "Lesbian" has always been an umbrella term. It can be a singular identity or it can describe any sapphic experience or it can do lots of things, labels have always been flexible in this way. Someone using the label differently than another person isn't harmful. It's expression.

#Not my intention to come off as argumentative! Just a discussion of different views. #I don’t mind discussing different perspectives and defending what I think in return #disclaimer: plz do not harass the asker if you disagree. #lgbt discourse #?? <- for anyone who doesn’t want to see this ig #asks #sa tw #homophobia tw #long post

[mothbeasts]

thinking about the fabricator again.

this isn't... elaborated on much, in canon, but I'm sure being a public figure in general is very stressful for her. Especially with her ties to Zoraxis. it's a balancing act to keep her two jobs separate...

But in the realm of pure headcanon territory. I do like to think about the other sources of stress related to her being in the public eye.

As a nonbinary lesbian myself, in a place where those things tend to be heavily frowned upon, I like to think about how the fabricator would handle her gender and sexuality in a time where those aspects of herself are less socially acceptable.

Being a woman that the public pays attention to has to be... Bad. Especially when said woman has no husband, or interest in marrying a man in general. I feel like she's always turning down advances, dealing with gossip, etc cetera. There's a certain amount of fear involved in her interactions with others in this regard... She never knows what might happen. What someone might do to her.

She also has to keep her orientation a secret, because that news getting out would be bad for her reputation more likely than not. So long as she doesn't let anyone know she likes women, she'll be fine... It's not like they'd ever find out she's trans, really. She keeps her past a closely guarded secret... nobody save for perhaps Zor knows her name, even.

It's tiring. Having to keep herself palatable.

#bee's buzzing #ieytd #the fabricator #tw transphobia #tw homophobia #<- both of these discussed primarily in a fictional context #i know a lot of people dont like to think about fictional homophobia/transphobia but. #its something i deal with regularly.. id like to post online about it through the lens of. blorbo from my games

[mywingsareonwheels]

I was thinking about the whole... what's more progressive debate out of m/m romance representation and actually close and tender (as opposed to buddyish) m&m friendships. And how utterly futile and insulting to the need for more of both a debate it is when we need infinitely more of both and a lot of other things.

Fundamentally, between the lingering after-effects of the Hays Code and the extremist end of Christianity (not that those two are unconnected) and the patriarchy (ditto) and militarism and capitalism... in mainstream Western story media we still struggle to get *any* genuine emotional intimacy that isn't:-

romance between a different-gender couple who are both cishet, and which if it's happy will lead to marriage (but hasn't yet).

marriage between ditto, but only if they haven't been together very long (after they have for a few years they're supposed to bicker all the time).

at an extreme pinch, fond closeness between blood relatives, especially if at least one of them is a woman.

Friendships between men and between women are okay so long as there's a... distancing of rivalry and teasing. If you can imagine one of them tucking the other in or stroking their hair (especially if they're both men) or being utterly and wholly in solidarity with each other (especially if they're both women)... hm, no.

And that's... it. We're still at a point in mainstream western media where anything that deviates from, especially to the extent of serious warmth and trust and confidence and understanding between the characters, that feels at least a little transgressive, especially in e.g. a blockbuster movie. We're still at a point where everything else is under-represented. Less and less so, thank everything, but still.

I'm thinking of some of my favourite relationships in fiction at the moment and how they fuck with those stereotypes and do better things (and always as part of awesome stories, because as always, good rep is important but it should never be treated as everything). :-) This is inevitably a v personal list, I'm not claiming that anything here is The Purest And Least Problematic Thing Ever, and this is very much just a, "this is what's enthusing me right now" thing. :D

yes they're a het couple and both cis, but: Mike and Alison Cooper in Ghosts. They have been married for a few years now, and they actually like each other. They're best friends as well as lovers, and I know that some critics have actually had a problem with this and regard it as unrealistic. [facepalm] I adore so much that they're not a stereotypical sitcom married couple, nothing like. In a quiet way they are utterly defiant and fuck completely with the genre.

Donna Noble & the Doctor in Doctor Who. I mean, do I need to say much more? :D Close, glorious platonic friendship between a woman and... the Doctor. Some of the most beautiful platonic love in any fiction ever and it's so tender and gorgeous and fun. Adore it. <3

Red, White, and Royal Blue is a silly film but omg I adore it and part of it is seeing all of those standard romance beats between two men. And with a lot more true closeness than a lot of het romcoms manage. We're getting more and more of this (we need more between women too, and indeed other queer romances of many and various kinds!!!). <3 <3 <3

yes, they're shit at expressing their love for each other most of the time, but I still stubbornly add: E Morse & Fred Thursday in Endeavour. The fact that they're inhabiting the 1960s-70s and there is no framework for their mutual affection and devotion is of course part of why things get so hard for them both. They don't know what to do with it or where to place each other in their priorities, but the loyalty and the tenderness is there, and some remarkable emotional intimacy at times considering who they both are. We watch and interpret it as father-son or as romantic or as fraternal or as an intense and wonderful (and complicated and difficult) friendship. But it defies easy definition and... and oh goodness well anyone who's been following me for any length of time knows how I can go on about them, apologies. ;-)

the entire Fellowship of the Ring, but especially Frodo and Sam. And whatever my mixed feelings on the PJ films of The Lord of the Rings, my Gods am I endlessly glad and grateful that they retained warmth and intensity and devotion and intimacy. I worry that it wouldn't have been if made now, with a more stereotypical masculinity so much in the ascendant in mainstream film-making (we really are in the midst of a patriarchal/homophobic/transphobic reaction :( ). As with Morse and Thursday, you can absolutely interpret some of the connections there as romantic (and we know that Tolkien was remarkably non-homophobic for a man of his generation and religion), or as platonic. Either way, what matters is that there's serious love there between male characters and that goes right back to the books. Tolkien could be problematic af, but I love him so much for how he writes masculinity and love between men. <3

Heartstopper, not just for Nick/Charlie and Tara/Darcy, but also because of Charlie's friendships with Elle, Isaac, and (especially, actually) Tau.

everything with Found Family, and especially everything with Found Family where there is no easy equivalence to a "nuclear" family to map the characters on to.

Honestly I could go on. Hooray for all of these! But also: we are still in a position where these all feel subversive and make a lot of the more bigoted critics spectacularly uncomfortable (even when there is no actual queer rep). We're still in a position where mainstream film series and some tv shows struggles with anything like this, and/or will sabotage a friendship between men and even an entire character arc because it's got too close and intimate and there's a desperate need to "no homo" everything (*coughs* Steve Rogers *coughs*). We're still in a position where romance between women and any romance involving trans people of any gender is dramatically under-everythinged (but that between cis men is also still not exactly even a fraction of where it should be). We're still in a position where honestly even the representation of romance between cishet characters is most often weirdly distant and lacks real closeness or mutual liking between them (often, let's face it, because the writers struggle to write women as people). I snarked a bit at first about the debate as to which is more important and under-represented between m/m romance and really open and loving m&m friendship, but honestly the main problem with that debate is that dividing up the exact same problem: we aren't going to get more open and loving representations of m&m friendship until the media get less afraid of the relationship being interpreted as romantic whether or not it is, by both fans and haters. (I.e. don't blame the shippers when a production company loses their nerve and trashes a friendship between men so that it's not seen as romantic! Blame homophobia. I mean, to put it on its simplest real-life terms, it's consistently my experience in the UK at least that het male allies are in general vastly more comfortable hugging each other than homophobes are.)

#long post #post i wrote when i should be looking after my neck by not being on my laptop oops #bbc ghosts #doctor who #rwrb #red white and royal blue #itv endeavour #lotr #heartstopper #mcu critical #tw homophobia discussion #tw misogyny discussion #tw transphobia mention #i could so easily have got into good omens and conversations from a long marriage but honestly they were both almost too easy :D

[my-traumacore-sideblog]

feeling rly unsafe 2day, but it's specifically bc of being a trans guy, i keep seeing stuff from cis women abt how men r always the worst and how men hav a duty 2 make their lives revolve around women or else we're sexist, how apparently men need 2 all b willing 2 lay down their lives 4 any woman or else we're just as bad as the creeps who make ppl feel unsafe 2 go out at night and yes i said people not just women but they only want 2 acknowledge it when it's a cis woman that's the victim

i did not fucking sign up for this

i did not fucking sign up 2 sacrifice my life either literally or thru dedicating my life only 2 others just because the pronoun "he" fits me better than the pronoun "she"

i should not hav 2 worry that im an inherently bad person because of being a gay trans man

i should not hav 2 worry abt being perceived as a threat bc of being a queer man of colour

i've honestly started to hav thoughts abt de-transitioning not bc being a guy in the way i am doesn't fit me but rather out of fear of the scrutiny every action of mine will b placed under

i was sexually abused as a child but i guess that doesn't matter anymore because im a man now, boys don't cry they punch ig, apparently since im a man now it means im destined 2 become that which hurt me

all i want is to be a man, in a nonbinary way yes but still a man (demi-guy), i want to love men who love me back, i want to live a quiet life surrounded by love and happiness, i want to live a gentle life

but no.... because im a man now then apparently it must make me predatory in some way

i can't de-transition... i know i wouldn't survive emotionally... so i stick with it, with allowing myself to be a demi-guy.... but it hurts knowing that me being free is perceived as dangerous, that im seen as inherently a threat to women

edit: so a terf started clowning this post, just 2 make this shit clear, this is not a fucking debate blog this is a me posting abt my feelings blog, i would've thought the url "my-traumacore-sideblog" would've made that clear

also no racism and sexism is not the same thing

yes women face oppression at the hands of men and should be allowed to talk about it but men also face oppression at the hands of women and should be allowed to talk abt it, 4 men who r not in a minority group this is usually in terms of legal stuff (how r*pe is legally categorised, custody disputes ect) but this is even more of an issue and more every day when it comes to men in marginalised communities, yk like me, yk like what i was venting abt in my fucking post i should b allowed 2 talk abt my own oppression 2 and acting like me venting abt my own oppression in a post tagged as a vent post on my vent blog makes me the same as my white oppressors is not only terf shit but also racist and it shows a lack of political literacy, a woman has just as much capacity 4 violence as a man but a queer man of colour is seen as inherently violent and a white woman is inherently seen as always being a victim but ur ok w/ these white women using that power of perceived vulnerability 2 call 4 violence against queer men and men of colour and especially queer men of colour just say u want cis women klansmen and leave im not backing down from talking abt my own oppression bc of white woman tears

anyways person who clowed is now blocked so don't bother trying 2 respond 2 my edit

#vent post #tw discussion of trauma #tw abuse #tw transandrophobia #tw homophobia #tw sexism #tw csa mention #tw racism

[trlvsn]

tiktok users are fucking killing me im sorry. just saw that one "if _ was a crime" trend with "if being gay was a crime"... you are aware that. it still is. a crime. in a lot of countries. people get the death penalty. you are aware of that right

and i'm sure that if i scrolled a couple of times after that video i would see some guy with one slightly feminine feature and the comments calling him "zesty" and asking him if "his gun is pink" as if that's normal and friendly behavior?? honestly it might be a reach but if someone shouted "gay!" at me in the street i would assume it wasn't an allyship moment, i would assume they meant it as something homophobic. you are ridiculing people for femininity and that's just not cool no matter how trendy the terms and copy-pasted comments are. sigh

#sorry it's not ace attorney related but i have fucking had enough #stop calling real people fruity for no reason!!! it's weird!!!! #and on the topic of that: touch of the tism is also not a cool phrase #tiktok #tw homophobia #tw tiktok users #cw homophobia #gay #queer discourse #queer discussions #raysidk

[quinnick]

So I have been thinking about this post for a minute and finally got the motivation to make something about it. 

All of us Bylers know the arguments from non-Bylers that is prevalent within the discourse. The idea that Byler can’t happen not because of in canon reasons but because of real world politics. Things like “Byler can’t happen because of homophobia in the 80s” or “they would never have more then two happy queer people in a main stream show”. 

1. Let’s ignore the fact that Stranger Things was probably never meant to be a main stream show. It was one of Netflix's first big breaks. It was not made by something like Disney and it’s aesthetics are focused on horror elements. Horror that is based on a subculture from the 80s. DnD is not really main stream and while 80s nostalgia is a huge thing, nerd culture in the 80s isn’t. Hope this all makes sense

2. Gay and trans people existed and were able to find happiness in the 80s. Don’t get me wrong, it was tough and still is tough to be visibly queer in society but that doesn’t mean queer people can not find happiness in their life. They can form loving relationships that last a life time. Just because it is hard does not mean it is impossible 

Now that I have that out of the way, I want to focus on specifically the general idea of both of these arguments. 

The thesis of any argument against Byler in these veins is “Marginalized communities, specifically queer people, do not get to have any form of escapism and all media involving them must be based in a reality I, a non-marginalized person, has created” 

Long thesis I know, but it’s the root of this. These people who have never experienced being queer or are queer but only understand the pain of being queer, have decided what is acceptable queer rep and what queer people are allowed to experience joy in. I have talked about this before in short just about Queer people who insist Byler would be better unrequited because it is “realistic” but this is a much bigger issue within society. 

Will Byers should and can be warmly accepted and loved by every character in Stranger Things. Will Byers can get the boy and be in a long loving relationship. Will Byers should and can be out and proud in the 80s. Queer people deserve to see that queer people can be loved, proud, and have happy endings.

Will Byers does not deserve to suffer heartbreak, trauma, and hate because he is queer and that would be “realistic”

Queer people deserve to watch media and experience joy they may not get to experience. Fuck anyone who says other wise.

It is realistic in my life to experience hate, heartbreak, and to be turned away by my family. I do not need to turn on the TV and see the media I enjoy showing that I deserve that. That I should have seen that coming. That even in a time line where there are monsters, another world, and magical powers, I am the weird one still.

So yeah, Queer people deserve to see that the world can accept them. That there are happy endings for them. That they can be heroes even in times when it would be difficult.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk <3 And don’t let anyone make you feel unlovable or like a mistake. Drink some water and take a nap. Have a good night/day/afternoon

#Byler #TW homophia #<---- more discussion of homophobia and internalized homophia #I cried while writing this because by god #I need this #I need queer rep where everyone loves them no matter what #I needed the Johnathan and Will heart to heart #Will Byers #Also y'all homophobia is showing when you hate Will Byers for no reason

[egharcourt]

Hot take for queer christians or affirming christian allies, but focusing on picking apart mistranslations in the clobber verses as the means to address homophobia, transphobia, or queerphobia in the church community is literally not gonna take us anywhere further. Okay, now we've disproved that Lev 18:22 doesn't imply whatever the English translation means. Oh and Deut 22:5 applies to a certain context. And then what. Do we just acquiesce in the fact that, after providing a rebuttal to some points raised by exclusionists, we still gotta sit in this unwelcoming and often spiritually stifling environment that they created.

I think what's fundamentally imperative is understanding what the core tenets of the Christian religion stand for (aka the Great Commandment). The second commandment, "love your neighbor as yourself" already makes it clear that there's no room for prejudice and bigotry. Bring up the verses and stories where the laws change to empower women, sexual minorities and outsiders in social systems that initially deny their rights (the daughters of Zelophehad, Isaiah 56:3-6, Acts 10:9-16). Stories about people who were underdogs, or from such communities, praised, promoted, and occupying an important position in the narrative.

The Bible's a big book and any argument can be extracted out of it to befit one's agenda. With so much hateful and intolerant rhetoric being thrown around, it's way better to highlight the passages that reaffirm marginalized people are blessed and cherished and deserve a place in faith, ESPECIALLY for vulnerable queer folk within the religious community that are told they can't belong. That's all I'm saying.

#religion tw #obviously goes without saying that reconstructing what certain verses imply is important #but I think we can do way fucking better than that! #on theology with egharcourt #liberation theology #progressive christianity #queer christianity #christianity #queer #lgbtq #homophobia tw #queerphobia tw #transphobia tw #religious discourse #religious discussion

[matoitech]

ppl on here r always talking about how they’re not allowed to complain about men anymore but there’s not a whole lot of acknowledgement that this website is infested with transphobes particularly of the fascist variety and a lot of posts about gender and ‘feminism’ on here r total bull. like idk call me crazy but maybe there’s a reason trans people r ‘sensitive’ and care a lot about wording and shit. it’s not like we’re whiny baby idiots who can’t handle ‘the patriarchy and misogyny is bad’ unrelated its so crazy that when uterushaver5000 complains abt how they’re called a transmisogynist for complaining about MEN!! you click on their blog and they’re a transmisogynist. like who would’ve been able to guess (this is sarcasm)

#transphobia tw #transmisogyny tw #i don’t knkw i just think it’s interesting when ppl i blocked for being friends w terfs make posts about how no one’s allowed to complain #abt men anymore and no one wants lesbians to have fun like damn must suck so much for you to not be able to spew radfem talking points #without ppl noticing what a shame for you maybe you should try sticking your face in a paper shredder #also way to throw lesbians under the bus i know plenty of gay women who Aren’t transphobes and don’t make their points abt the patriarchy #by sounding like a fuckin radfem but like sure #gay communities r no stranger to accusing trans ppl of homophobia for ‘not liking transphobia very much’ #or misogyny 👍 both real and legitimate things that deserve discussion but ur not gonna get that from this website

[sixth-light]

Came across this thread on Brandon Sanderson's historical homophobic views on Twitter yesterday (which I was not previously aware of the specificity of) and it has made me do some thinking. Not really about Sanderson in particular; the only reason I have any awareness of or even the vaguest level of interest in him is his intersection with WoT. But about for me personally what people have to do for me to feel like they've wiped the slate on those sort of comments - i.e., whether I will ever trust or respect them.

And it really boils down to one thing: you have to acknowledge the level of harm that was done no matter the way you originally framed those views to yourself. In this case - but this is by no means the only example I've seen - extremely, vitriolically homophobic statements are positioned as just another viewpoint which is deserving of equal respect as advocacy for queer rights. The fact that the statements don't use slurs or outright call for violence doesn't improve anything, because they align with and give support to people who *are* willing to go that far. It is extremely reminiscent of comments I have seen from transphobic people who argue vociferously that they're not transphobic, they have every respect for trans people, they just think they should be banned from using public toilets because they want everybody to be safe. This is, of course, a violently transphobic position which does material harm to trans and GNC people on a daily basis.

In both those cases, the only way I'm ever going to consider the espouser of such views to not still be homophobic or transphobic is if they articulate very clearly and publicly that they understand the level of violence inherent in their statements, that it was wrong they ever made them, and that they now positively support the opposite. Anything less tells me that they don't want criticism for those views, but they haven't actually rejected them. Because if you can't say "I was wrong and harmful and I am sorry", then...what is anything else you say worth?

#homophobia tw #transphobia tw #before we devolve into discussion of BS's work (emphatically not what this post is about or for) #I'm just gonna note there is a long #LONG history #of people with very repressive views of minorities being perfectly comfortable with *fictional* depictions of them #especially genre fictional depictions #because they can and do mentally separate that from what is right and proper in the real world #the whole concept of what you write and consume in fiction not necessarily representing your real-world actions or beliefs #absolutely cuts all ways

[doctormead]

The Phandom and LGBTQ reality.

Something has been niggling in my brain since I rejoined the Danny Phantom community and started writing fanfic for it.  It may have been written up many times before (Damn, is “Danny Phantom” allowed to drink in the U.S. yet?), but it’s not filtered across my dashboard, so I’m gonna do it.  If there is a better take, please link me.

On AO3, the tag “Bad Parents Jack and Maddie Fenton” has (at time of writing) 190 works while “Good Parents Jack and Maddie Fenton” has only 86.  I’ve not done an extensive comparison inside the “bad parents” tag, but, while it seems some of them have this tag because Jack and Maddie are (as seen in the show) oblivious and neglectful, many of them are due to Jack and Maddie reacting badly when they find out that Danny Fenton and Danny Phantom are one and the same.  And this is in spite of the cannon in two separate episodes (”Reality Check” and “Phantom Planet”) showing the opposite.  

Why is that?

I suspect that a large part of it is that the relationship between Danny and his parents maps frighteningly well to an LGBTQ kid living with openly and loudly homophobic/transphobic parents.  I’m not going into details here, because I’m sure that, if you’ve seen more than three episodes of the show and witnessed/experienced ANY homophobia/transphobia, you can clearly see the parallels.  Now, for a children’s cartoon produced in the early 2000′s, I can see why Nickelodeon went with the “when the parents actually find out their child is half-ghost, their love for him makes them realize they were wrong and they accept him” tack.  Playing out the reveal in a way that was entirely consistent with the characterization of Jack and Maddie up to the point of at least “Reality Check” would have been pretty damn dark and perhaps traumatizing for their target audience.  But...it IS inconsistent with their prior characterization for the Fentons to have reacted they way they did at Danny’s reveal.

I’m sure most of my friends who are LGBTQ would dream of their family reacting to their coming out the way Jack and Maddie did with Danny’s, but the reality is, for many of them, this was likely to never happen.  Particularly if their parents were as rampantly homo/transphobic as the Fentons were ectophobic. So I guess there is a bit of cognitive dissonance when we watch the show that perhaps fanfic is trying to resolve.  I’m not suggesting that all “Bad Parents Jack and Maddie Fenton” fic is being written by people trying to work through their own trauma about being closeted/coming out in a hostile household.  I have no idea the background of these authors and, quite frankly, it’s none of my business to ask.  But, once you see the parallels, it’s pretty damn hard to un-see them. 

What do you think?  Am I on to something?  Am I full of shit?  If I’ve gotten something wrong, please let me know.  Constructive criticism is welcome.

#danny phantom #lgbtq #fanfiction #tw: homophobia #tw: transphobia #art reflecting life #lets discuss

[tempoaryblogformightyjensblog]

I will say that while we don't know if Lute is homophobic and it could be that her comment about Vaggie and Charlie being blasphemous was more of an angel-demon thing. And that is a valid interpretation...

Its wild seeing how many people seem weirdly defensive about the idea she is? Or act like it was definitely about the angel-demon thing and the homophobia interpretation?

Like my guy, she is not just a villain, she is explicitly a genocidal sadist, extremist, and later in the episode rants about how Angel Dust deserves to be in hell for being a promiscuous person who does drugs

"Some crack-whore who fucked up already? He blew his shot, like the cocks in his mouth This discussion is senseless and petty"

What about her possibly being a bigot is out of character? Or makes her more problematic then she is?

#hazbin hotel #Lute #Homophobia TW #Discussion #Character stuff #bigotry

[teamdilf]

One of the things I so dearly love about Baldur's Gate 3 is not just the queer representation, but the fact that we have a lot of queer relationships in the background and it's just... background! They're not tooting their own horn the way Marvel did re: the pathetic, 30 second representation of a queer man. They've created a world where queer relationships are just part of the background the way straight relationships are in media.

When I write fanfiction, I try my best to do the same thing, and in the worlds I write, homophobia is just not a thing - whether as a society we've moved beyond that shit or whether it's never existed in the first place. It's just something I've personally chosen not to include because I like writing worlds where people don't need to worry about who they love or their gender identity.

I'm bi, and out to few people in real life. I could come out - I've considered it, but haven't felt comfortable taking that next step with my family. But, I guess I fear the microaggressions I'd experience from my mom in particular - she's a boomer and I've experienced that sort of thing from her on other issues. She told us a distant relative of mine no longer identifies as their assigned gender at birth and uses a new name... but misgendered them the entire time. I pointedly asked whether they're using they/them pronouns and she said yes... and proceeded to continue to misgender them even though I told her that she needs to be using they/them pronouns. And apparently other boomer relatives are frequently deadnaming and misgendering them, and my heart just broke, and I'm glad their parents seem to be offering them support because that's SO important.

But, seeing how my mother reacted to a queer family member who has come out has driven me further into the closet with my family.

I'm just really sad about it, and I haven't seen this family member of mine since they were a young child so I'm not even sure it would be appropriate to reach out to check in with them and see how they're doing.

So, long story short, fuck homophobia, and fuck transphobia, and in the universes I write, there won't be any children or adults worrying about sharing their true selves with family for fear of being treated differently or ostracized.

#TW: discussion of homophobia #TW: discussion of transphobia #Personal Stuff #bisexuality #Might delete later

[writerbri]

I need to rant and I'm sorry but I have zero people in my life I trust with this so it's happening here. I got into an argument with my sister yesterday and oh boy the actual fight and the aftermath have really just been one fucking thing after another.

Highlights:

my sister getting incredibly defensive and offended and nasty over the fact that I actively root for non-hetero pairings

my sister telling me not to be "creepy" by wanting a person who has not yet been in a same sex relationship on screen to possibly be in a same sex relationship

my sister calling any fans creepy and predatory (because calling lgbtqa+ people predatory definitely isn't a red fucking flag) who might want to see lgbtqa+ storylines and who want to see coming out storylines for characters that she deems as "completely straight" and saying that forcing fictional characters to be anything but straight is predatory behavior

my sister outright demanding more than once to know whether I'm gay or bi when she realizes that I'm getting more and more furious with each word she says, essentially trying to force me to out myself when she's in the middle of revealing just how little of a safe space she is

my sister pulling the "well MY gay friends think [insert excuse for her thoughts/behavior here]" card

my sister ignoring me trying to set boundaries and when I tell her that she is saying things that are actively hurting me, she continues saying them even louder to drown out me trying to tell her that she's hurting me

my sister, after I shut her down and walked away, deciding in her fucking vile wicked mind that I've come out to her now and that the first thing she needs to do is to go to my extremely conservative mother and father to tell them that I'm gay

so that's a phone call I had to repeatedly lie on with my mother when she called me about it today because like fuck am I coming out to any of them when they are NOT safe at all, thankfully my sister is a shitty person to everyone so my mom was convinced that she was just trying to fuck shit up

yes my sister is incredibly homophobic and transphobic and pretty much any other phobic you can come up with, and shit like this is what I get to hear all the fucking time from her

and literally an hour before the argument, she had the audacity to say that I'm her favorite person in the world

#tw homophobia #like let's say for arguments sake that I HAD come out to her #which I didn't #all I said was that I was no longer willing to discuss this with her #like I should have just fucking lied and said yeah whatever I'm straight #but I didn't and I regret it #but even if I had come out #knowing that she would have run straight to our parents to let them know #just makes me feel more betrayed #like I didn't even actually come out and she still managed to out me #what the fuck #personal #sorry #I had to say something #this is a 40 year old woman y'all #and she's a CRAZED jkr defender and she's obsessed with the british royal family #so that's probably all you need to know about her