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blessedarethebinarybreakers · 3 years

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Answer asap (I feel bad saying that, but I'm stuck). Do you have any resources for dating/not dating non-christians? A dear friend of mine told me they care for me, and I feel the same for them, but... all the resources online warn again and again not to date non-christians lest they endanger my faith. I feel like going forward with this would be ignorant at best and would set us both up for heartbreak. And I fear my fear itself would lead to me trying to convert them. But I still care for them.

Hey, anon! Thanks for reaching out -- the rhetoric among many Christians against interfaith relationships, particularly with the argument that they’re “unequally yoked,” is something I haven’t addressed in years, and have been meaning to discuss again.

Little disclaimer at the start that this stuff is so contextual, and it’s personal -- I don’t know your life as well as you do, or this friend of yours like you do. Maybe what i say doesn’t fit you and your situation.

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To begin, I firmly believe that interfaith relationships can be and often are truly beautiful, holy partnerships. (This includes relationships in which one or multiple members identifies as an atheist / otherwise doesn’t ascribe to a particular religion.)

When both (or all) members are respectful of one another’s beliefs, and find as much joy in learning as in teaching their partner(s), their unique perspectives can deeply enrich one another. You can bear good fruit together that glorifies God and nourishes others.

This being said, you definitely want to at least begin working through your worries and fears before starting to date this person. If you enter the relationship overwhelmed with fear or guilt about dating them, it’ll bring a lot of resentment and angst. The rest of this post points out things you’ll want to reflect on and read up on before entering this or any interfaith relationship -- and offers resources that can help.

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Interfaith Partners: Always “Unequally Yoked”?

I’m sure you’ve seen a certain phrase on those websites you mentioned, drawn from 2 Corinthians 6:14 -- “unequally yoked.” I’m going to end this post with some alternative ways of interpreting this verse, but what Christians who advise against interfaith relationships take it to mean is something like this:

Just as two animals yoked to the same plow should be of equal strength and on the same page so that one doesn’t do more of the work, or get tugged away from the work by the other one, two partners should also be of equal “spiritual” strength and on the same page when it comes to their faith...

And of course, these people will say, a person who is Christian is definitely spiritually stronger than any non-Christian -- and a non-Christian might just pull them away from The Way, getting them to skip church or prayers or even stop being Christian entirely.

But there are a lot of assumptions there that don’t hold true in every relationship, right? First off, who says every Christian is necessarily “spiritually stronger” than every non-Christian? To claim that is to assume that non-Christians don’t also have access to spirituality or to the Divine -- which I’m going to push against throughout this post.

Furthermore, the assumption that a non-Christian partner will definitely harm your own Christian faith doesn’t have to be true, as I’ll get to in a second.

So yeah, keeping these assumptions about an interfaith relationship being inherently “unequally yoked” in mind, and with a plan on returning to this phrase at the end, let’s move on to specific things you should think about before entering an interfaith relationship.

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Must a non-Christian partner “endanger” your faith -- or can they enrich it?

If being open to learning about how our fellow human beings perceive the world, humanity, and the divine “endangers one’s faith,” perhaps that kind of faith was not made to last. Perhaps it has to give way in order to birth a new, deeper faith -- a faith that is bold enough to wrestle with God as Jacob did; broad enough to survive questions and doubts and times of grief; and wise enough to perceive the Spirit blowing wherever She will (John 3:8), not only among Christians.

If your partner truly respects you and your faith even if it’s different from theirs, they’ll do what they can to help you be the best Christian you can be -- or at the very least, they will give you the space and time you need to go to church, pray, etc. And you will do the same, helping them to be the best Muslim, Buddhist, or simply person they can be.

I highly recommend asking this friend of yours before you start dating what their thoughts are on your being a Christian, and/or on Christianity in general.

Is it something that makes them happy for you? is it something that makes them deeply uncomfortable? or something that they don’t have strong feelings one way or the other on? .

How “involved” would they be open to being in your faith? Would they be interested in going to church with you, as long as they could trust you weren’t trying to force them into anything? Would they enjoy talking about your varying beliefs together and how they impact your lives? Or would they never ever want you to bring up Christianity (which I imagine for you would be a deal breaker)? .

Be open and honest with one another about what expectations you each have about things like boundaries around discussing faith, about time and space you each want for practicing your faith, etc. As you seem aware, it’s better to get all this clear before you start dating, to avoid problems later down the road!

For an example of what such discussions might look like, I found this story from Robert Repta, a Christian man married to a Jewish man. Their union, he says, has included working out what it means not only to be gay persons of faith, but also persons of two different faiths:

“Ultimately, what happened was that in our struggles to find ourselves, we ended up growing closer together. We both supported and challenged each other. We began asking each other bigger life questions and talking about religion, God, science. Both of our lives were evolving, and what started to happen was that we started seeing the similarities in our core beliefs more than the differences. Some of those beliefs even evolved along the way.

We both believed in God. We both believed that God is love. We volunteered together. He would occasionally come with me to church, and I would occasionally go with him to the synagogue. Eventually, I could see that the common thread between us was unconditional love. The same unconditional love of God.”

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On pressuring a non-Christian partner to convert -- assumptions about Christian superiority & fearing for their afterlife destination

It’s really good you recognize that it might end up being hard for you not to try to get this person to convert! Before dating them, you should keep reflecting on this and decide whether that’s something you can let go of or not. If it’s not, then you’re probably right in thinking this relationship won’t work out.

It would be highly disrespectful to this person you care about to pressure them to become a Christian in order for you to feel okay about being with them. (And for more thoughts on how evangelism and conversion as carried out by many Christians isn’t what Jesus had in mind, see this post.) Doing so would imply a lot of things, including that you don’t think they’re a worthy or equal partner unless they make this big change, that whatever beliefs or ideologies they currently hold are inferior to yours, etc.

In order for your interfaith relationship to go well, you would need to come to understand non-Christians as being equally made in God’s image, equally worthy of dignity, equally capable of doing good in the world. You’d have to come to believe that there is much of value within their own religion / ideology that you as a Christian could learn from.

Let’s bring in our lovely Christian/Jewish couple from before: as his relationship with David developed, Robert discovered that

“God is not conformed to this world we live in; God does not belong solely to the Pentecostals or the Baptists, to the Jews or Gentiles, to Muslims or Zoroastrians. Two of the most profound self-identifiers God calls himself in the Bible is “love” and “I am.””

Here are a few resources that can help you explore the idea that other religions are as valid as Christianity and also have much wisdom to bring to the world:

I highly recommend you check out the book Holy Envy by Barbara Brown Taylor to help you explore how you can be a devout Christian and learn from and form mutual relationships with persons who are not Christian. You can check out passages from the book in my tag here. .

You might also like my two podcast episodes on interfaith relationships (in general, not romantic ones, but the same material applies) -- episode 30, “No One Owns God: Readying yourself for respectful interfaith encounters” and episode 31, “It's good to have wings, but you have to have roots too": Cultivating your faith while embracing religious pluralism.” You can find links to both episodes as well as their transcripts over on this webpage. .

There might also be some helpful stuff in my #interfaith tag or #other faiths tag if you wander around. .

Simply getting to know whatever religion this friend does belong to (or what ideologies and value systems they maintain if they’re atheist / non-religious) can also be super helpful. Ask them what resources they can think of that can help get to know their religion as they experience it. Attend worship service (virtually works!), seek out folks on social media who share their religion, etc. I bet you’ll find a lot that you have in common -- and hopefully you’ll find some of the differences thought-provoking and enriching to your own understandings of Divinity!

I’m guessing a lot of your worry stems from the assumption that non-Christians don’t go to heaven. If you believe that not being a Christian leads to hell after death, it’s very hard to view non-Christians and their beliefs as equal to your own!

That Holy Envy book discusses this genuine fear many Christians have on behalf of non-Christians, and how to let it go. .

Here’s a post with links to other posts describing the belief that many faithful and serious Christians hold that non-Christians don’t all get whisked to hell. .

And a post on the harm done by fearmongering about hell. .

Finally, a little more on the academic side but if you’re interested in some history behind Christian views of hell that can help you see that there really is no one “true” belief here, check out the links in this post.

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Reinterpreting “unequally yoked”

I said we’d get back to this, and here we are! While the easiest to find interpretation of 2 Corinthians 6:14′s “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers” is that it argues against interfaith marriage, there are other ways to read this text.

I adore this article I found on the passage from a Christian minister who is married to a Hindu monk -- “Unequally Yoked”: How Christians Get Interfaith Marriage Wrong.” Incredibly, Rev. J. Dana Trent writes that when she and her now-husband dug into 2 Corinthians 6:14 to see what it was all about, she found that

“An ancient scripture meant to deter us from getting involved with each other actually brought us together. Our core beliefs in God became the focus of our study and relationship, not the issues that divided us.”

She also explains that biblical scholars say this verse isn’t even specifically about interfaith marriage -- which becomes clear when you read the full chapter surrounding it! It’s more general -- about the hazards of “working with” an unbeliever.

And what exactly is an unbeliever? Paul and other “believers” of these very early days of Christianity had a different definition than we might today -- an “unbeliever” wasn’t synonymous with “non-Christian,” because Christianity hadn’t even solidified into an actual religion yet! Instead, a nonbeliever was "anyone exposed to but was not faithful to Christ’s teachings—someone not characterized by devotion, love, peace, mercy, and forgiveness.”

In other words, if a person in those early days was told about the good news of Jesus that entailed things like liberation of the oppressed and love of neighbor, they didn’t have to “become a Christian” to accept that good news. And thus, Rev. Trent continues,

“Today, my husband’s deep Hindu faith has taught me to dig deeper into what Jesus would have me do. Perhaps Paul might have even considered me an “unbeliever,” as I claimed to be a baptized Christian, but my life did not inwardly and outwardly reflect the Gospel. Since marrying Fred, I re-attuned my life to Christian spiritual practices: spending more time in contemplative prayer, practicing non-violence through a vegetarian diet, limiting my consumption, and increasing my service to others.

Much to many Christians’ dismay, it took a person of another faith—a seemingly “unequally yoked” partner, to strengthen my Christian walk.”

Isn’t it beautiful to hear how this relationship between a Christian minister and Hindu monk has born good fruit for both of them? They help one another become the best Christian and best Hindu they can be, respectively. They are both so deeply committed to faith -- that doesn’t sound like an “unequal yoking” to me.

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Whew, this got long! But it’s a big topic, and one I hope you’ll take the time to explore. Bring God into it; bring your friend into as much as they’re comfortable. And feel free to come back and ask me more questions as you go.

If anyone knows of other articles or other resources that explore the good fruit that can come from an interfaith partnership, please share!

#interfaith relationships #unequally yoked #progressive christians #interfaith dating #Anonymous #relationship tag

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celiabowens · 3 years

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25 books recs from my 2020 reads

I’ve been wanting to make this post for a while, but I wanted to wait and see how my last reads of the year would go. Also, narrowing them down to 20 was a nope, so I just made a bigger list instead lol. I’ve tried to include a vague description of each book and the main trigger warnings and rep. I apologise in advance if I forgot anything (for trigger warnings, I suggest double checking on the site booktriggerwarnings).

Adult SFF

A Memory Called Empire: it feels like I’ve raved about this one enough but just in case: A Memory Called Empire is a space opera following an ambassador who suddenly finds herself in the middle of a murder mystery and a political conspiracy. It’s got brilliant world building and a nuanced and intricate reflection about culture, language and colonialism. Subtle slow burn f/f romance on the side (+ a poly relationship shown in flashbacks). TW: suicide.

Black Sun: first book in an epic fantasy series inspired by pre-columbian Americas. Great cast of characters and very interesting use of mythology + the main plot is focused on political and religious conflict and the author handles both sides of it quite well. The book has bisexual and non-binary rep, one of the main characters is blind. TW: suicide, abuse, self harm. There’s some gore, although it’s not extremely graphic.

The Sword of Kaigen: a Japanese inspired stand alone epic fantasy. The book is not focused on battle or war, although they play an important role in the plot itself, but on family dynamics and personal growth. It’s a very character driven novel, with some rather conventional elements (elemental magic) and some more original reuses of traditional fantasy tropes. TW: abuse.

Empire of Sand: first book in a duology of companion novels inspired by Mughal India. Mostly focused on religious and political conflict, although romance is heavily featured in both books. Pretty good slow burn romance in both cases. TW: abuse, slavery, torture, sexual assault, self-harm.

The Light Brigade: a rather unconventional space opera with a complex non linear narration. This is not an easy read in every possible way, but the pay off is worth it. Also it’s one of those cases in which I think it’s best to go in knowing nothing or almost nothing. TW: torture, murder, ptsd, war, gore, infectious diseases (yeah you need a strong stomach for this........).

Gods of Jade and Shadow: a coming of age story set in Mexico during the Jazz age. A bit of a lighter read, a journey-adventure featuring a god slowly becoming human, tasks to complete etc. TW: bullying.

River of Stars: more of an alternate history than pure fantasy, as most of GGK’s novels are. This one in particular was inspired by Chinese history and it’s ideally a companion to Under Heaven. Both can be read as standalones but I find their parallels and differences very interesting. I’d also recommend The Lions of Al-Rassan and A Brightness Long Ago, by the same author. All of them revisit historical events from the point of view of rather ordinary people who find themselves in the middle of events they can’t control.

Empire of Gold: the last book in a trilogy, starting with City of Brass. The first novel is more trope-y and naive in places, but I found both the second book and the conclusion of the trilogy more nuanced and satisfying. There’s a m/m relationship on the side. TW: mass murder, torture, enslavement, abuse.

Adult SFF novella edition

The Deep: novella set in an underwater society built by the descendants of African slave women that were tossed overboard. The novella deals with trauma, both personal and generational one.

This Is How You Lose The Time War: epistolary set during a time-travel war. Enemies to lovers f/f romance. Very character driven, don’t expect a lot of world building.

The Empress of Salt and Fortune: an Asian-inspired novella that gives a voice to people usually silenced by history. It follows a cleric as they chronicle the story of the late empress, retold through objects that she used in her life.

YA SFF

Return of the Thief/The Queen’s Thief series in general: the last book in the queen’s thief series! Honestly just read this series it’s literally too good? It is carefully planned from start to finish and it has politics, adventures, characters with extremely questionable morals and good banter? TW: loss of a limb, torture (not extremely graphic), ptsd.

The Kingdom of Back: probably Marie Lu’s best book yet? think of the concept of “shakespeare’s sister” as explained by Woolf in A Room of One’s Own, but with the Mozart siblings. I actually had no idea Mozart had a sister prior to reading this. It’s a quite emotional read, as it shows how little opportunities women had to be recognised for their talent.

Adult Literary Fiction

On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous: a beautiful exploration of language, family history, trauma, sexuality and gender. TW: war, ptsd, death.

Augustus: an epistolary historical fiction novel narrating some of the main events of Augustus’ reign through letters from/by his closest friends and enemies. Not even remotely historically accurate, but a lot of fun to read if you’re familiar with historical accounts of that period.

A Gentleman in Moscow: following Count Alexander Rostov, who, in 1922, is sentenced to a lifetime of house arrest in the Metropol, a luxurious hotel in the center of Moscow. A peculiar novel, funny and heartbreaking at once, following a vibrant cast of characters as they come and go from Rostov’s secluded life.

How Much of These Hills Is Gold: following two recently orphaned children through the gold rush era, the book is an adventurous historical fiction piece that focuses on themes like gender, identity and immigration. TW: abuse, sexual assault, racism.

The Memory Police: published in Japan in the mid 90s, but translated recently, it’s an orwellian dystopian novel set on an unnamed Island where memories of certain objects and feelings slowly disappear.

The Nickel Boys: the book follows the lives of two boys sentenced to a reform school in Jim Crow-era Florida. A bleak, but important book, with a shocking final twist. TW: abuse, racism, death.

Manga/Graphic Novels

The Girl from the Other Side

Opus: very meta, much like most of Satoshi Kon’s movies. Kon actually never finished this (the magazine he was publishing it on was cancelled) and a last chapter was published after his death after his family found the sketches for it.

Oriental Piano: based on the story of the author’s grandfather, who invented a musical instrument in Beirut in the 1960s, combining Arabic music and a western musical instrument. Sort of reminiscent of Satrapi’s style.

Webtoons

Lore of Olympus (TW: sexual assault)

Clara and The Devil

Non Fiction

The Professor and the Madman: the peculiar and extraordinary tale behind the compilation of the Oxford English Dictionary. TW: self-harm, ptsd, war.

Honourable mentions: The Binding (TW: abuse, sexual assault, suicide. Gay rep.), The Silence of the Girls (TW: sexual assault, death, war), To Be Taught, If Fortunate (bi, ace, poly rep), The Kyoshi Novels (bi rep, f/f relationship).

#book rec #book recs #litblr #2020 reads #happy new year i guess #i read like 210 things in 2020 ain’t happening again any time soon lol

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shenanigans-and-imagines · 4 years

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Nsfw alphabet (all of it) for Loki? Also, l love ur star wars ocs 💕

A = Aftercare (what they’re like after sex)

He praises you to high heaven after sex. His words come low and soft as he cleans up you telling you, in so many different way, how perfect you are. His silver tongue doesn’t stumble once.

B = Body part (their favorite body part of theirs and also their partner’s)

He loves your neck. It’s so easy to tease you with just a simple brush of his lips against that particular part of your skin. An open canvas for him bite and mark as he wishes. And it’s the perfect fit for his hand to squeeze as he fucks you.

As for himself, he likes his hands. He knows you appreciate the length and dexterity of his fingers. Not to mention it’s where most of his true power resides. They are magic hands, after all. ;)

C = Cum (anything to do with cum, basically)

He leaves such a mess when he cums. He loves cumming all over your skin; stomach, back, face, tits, it doesn’t matter. It’s his way of marking you. He’ll even take his fingers like a brush and paint it all over your body.

Even when he cums inside you, he still manages to leave his mark. He’ll spread you open, watching in fascination as a mix of your cum and his own drip down your inner thigh. He likes to take his fingers then, and spread is down your skin before licking it with his tongue. He’s a complete slut when it comes to cum.

D = Dirty secret (pretty self explanatory, a dirty secret of theirs)

He doesn’t have many to be honest. He’s very open about what he wants with you. After a thousands years or so, you learn that there’s no shame in sharing with someone you trust.

But, there have been a few instances he’s has to keep himself from moaning “mommy”. He’s not sure where it came from and that’s one kink he’s does not want to explore.

E = Experience (how experienced are they? do they know what they’re doing?)

Thor might be more bombastic, but Loki has perfected the art of whispering into an ear and making the hearer weak at the knees. So yes, he’s been around the block a few times with a variety of partners.

F = Favorite position (this goes without saying)

It really depends on his mood.

If he’s in a dominating mood then he loves taking you from behind, your back pressed against his chest and his hand clasped around your throat.

If he wants to be dominated, then please tie his wrists to the bedpost and ride his face. He wants your cum.

G = Goofy (are they more serious in the moment? are they humorous? etc.)

He runs the gambit from emotional and intense to a sexy, but fun romp in the hay. There are moments he can’t help, but make a joke or a smug comment at your expense. It keeps things unpredictable.

H = Hair (how well groomed are they? does the carpet match the drapes? etc.)

He actually keeps up a pretty close shaved down there. Not that there was much there in the first place. Perhaps the first hint he wasn’t Asgardian.

I = Intimacy (how are they during the moment? the romantic aspect)

As I said before, he runs a wide range of emotions when you’re fucking.

But, when he is in the mood or his emotions become too overwhelming, he can be extremely intimate. Sometimes it’s praises as he makes love to you, wondering how he could be so lucky. Other times it’s desperate and pleading, clinging to your body and begging you not to leave.

And then there are days he just wants to have a bit of fun.

You’re never too sure what you’re going to get on an given day.

J = Jack off (masturbation headcanon)

Not as often as you’d think. If he’s in the mood, he prides himself on being able to find a partner to satisfy him. Using his own hand feels childish and a little embarrassing. So, he won’t do it unless he’s really desperate.

K = Kink (one or more of their kinks)

God, it would be easy to lists the stuff he isn’t into.

First and foremost, he’s 110% a switch. Yes he’s got mad Big Dick Daddy Dom energy when he wants to and there are a number of fantasies he has that involve tying you up and using you as his personal fuck toy.

But if you’re telling me this same disaster theater nerd twink doesn’t also allow his partners to peg him on the reg, then you are dead wrong.

That all being said, I’d also like to add exhibitionism to the list. There are times you swear he wants to get caught when he fucks you against the bookshelves in the library, or in the gardens or even against the one of the pillars in the palace. If it weren’t for his illusions, you might have.

L = Location (favorite places to do the do)

The most common place is your bedroom. That’s where you can pull out all the stops and really take your time.

But as I said above, he does take a certain thrill out of almost being caught. If he were being honest, he’s say the library was near the top of his favorite places to fuck.

M = Motivation (what turns them on, gets them going)

Assertiveness is certainly top of the list. Knowing that you want him and no one else, combined with your confidence can lead him pleading at your feet.

Jealousy is also a motivator. If he sees another man trying to move in on you, that’s his cue to pull you into the nearest empty room and fuck you senseless. Alternatively, if he sees you getting jealous of someone hitting on him, then he’ll pull you aside and show you in every way he can that he is yours.

N = No (something they wouldn’t do, turn offs)

Infanalization, or really any age play where either of you is expected to act like a child. It’s insulting to him for one thing, since he can take some sexual humiliation, but he draws the line at not being at least considered a man.

As for you, he wants to be with an adult plain and simple. He finds it tedious and insipid otherwise.

O = Oral (preference in giving or receiving, skill, etc.)

Again, split right down the middle. There are nights that all he wants to do is tie your wrists to the bed posts as he buries himself between your legs, making you cum and cum again on his tongue until you can’t move.

Other times, he wants to pull your hair and fuck your face, making you take every inch of him before cumming down your throat.

P = Pace (are they fast and rough? slow and sensual? etc.)

Leans more towards the fast and rough, averaging at about 65% of the time. But for the other 35%, he takes his sweet time.

Q = Quickie (their opinions on quickies, how often, etc.)

Yes and please. Preferably during a ball or some other formal event where he fucks you in an empty corridor before eventually rejoining the party like nothing happened.

R = Risk (are they game to experiment? do they take risks? etc.)

All the time. He’ll trying anything once.

S = Stamina (how many rounds can they go for? how long do they last?)

He’s usually good for one to three rounds. But those rounds can last anywhere from 15 minutes a piece or a full hour depending on why you’re doing. So, stamina is never an issue.

T = Toys (do they own toys? do they use them? on a partner or themselves?)

A whole trunk full. Like I said, he’ll try anything once.

U = Unfair (how much they like to tease)

All the god damn time. If a party is particularly dull, he’ll spend the whole night teasing you. It’s a game to see how fast he can make you break.

There have been times he’s teased you right to the edge only to leave you tied to the bed and aching for hours before finishing the job.

And don’t even get me started on him trying to make you jealous of purpose. He’s such a drama queen.

V = Volume (how loud they are, what sounds they make, etc.)

He can be quiet if he really needs to be. If you’re having sex in a semi-public space he at least has the sense to keep it to himself; grunting and whispering dirty words against your skin.

When you’re in private however, all bets are off. He runs his mouth, he moans, he growls, and he curses like it’s going out of style.

W = Wild card (a random headcanon for the character)

He can talk a big game with one night stands, but his favorite kind of sex is with a consistent partner. He wants to be desired, but more than that, he wants to be chosen and chosen consistently. Having one person there every day choosing to be with him is everything.

X = X-ray (let’s see what’s going on under those clothes)

Not an overly thick or heavy cock, but certainly longer than average and it’s width proportional to his size. A nice, pretty seven inch dick.

Y = Yearning (how high is their sex drive?)

It’s strange, but when it’s just him and one night stands, his sex drive isn’t insane. He’s not going to get a head ache if he doesn’t have sex and dry spells don’t bother him as much.

But when he’s actually in a relationship, his sex drive is off the charts. I think he ultimately like the idea of someone wanting and choosing him consistently. It’s one of his biggest turn ons. So, you guys are having sex at least every other night.

Z = Zzz (how quickly they fall asleep afterwards)

It takes him a while to doze off. He likes to make sure you comfortable and clean. He’ll massage your muscles if you need it and talk the night away. He doesn’t want to miss a moment if he can help it.

#loki #loki x reader #loki odinson #loki odinson x reader #marvel #mcu #marvel imagine #mcu imagine #lemon

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wtffundiefamilies · 3 years

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From reddit user bubblegum1286. What might have been for Josh.

I interned for a year as a counseling grad student for an SOTP (sex offender treatment prevention) program. Here's the help Josh should have received years ago...

The program I worked with had men from ages 16 up to old old men. It was a court-mandated program that was required as part of their probation or parole (depending on their sentencing). The crimes ranged from possession of child pornography to aggravated sexual assault and torture with a deadly weapon. Some guys had never served any actual time in jail, while one man had just been released after 45 years in prison. So we had a hodgepodge you could say.

The program in my local city is/was run by a PhD psychologist and a licensed marriage and family therapist who also happened to be a former sheriff's deputy who worked for twenty years in law enforcement. These guys didn't take bullshit. They were amazingly professional and working with them was an excellent experience for me. Only two graduate students were selected each year to intern in this program, and I considered myself very honored to get to work with them. It was eye-opening to say the least.

The primary aspects of the program have been explained by other snarky mental health professionals (I love that you guys came out of the woodworks to add to this). Accountability is huge.

We did six hours of group therapy sessions every single week. Every week, their POs would come by to make sure they were attending in person. Arrest warrants were issued for missing even one session. This was a very important aspect of the program.

Our sessions always involved open accountability in which we would revisit the nature of the crimes involved. We swept nothing under the rug. They went around the room every single week and stated why they were in attendance with this particular group of people. This isn't intended to shame them, but rather to keep their crimes at the forefront of their thoughts so they stay more closely connected with the nature of their crimes. Distancing oneself from the nature and weight of your own sins or compartmentalizing "that aspect of your life" causes you to feel like "I'd never do that again! That's in the past. That's so long ago, I don't even remember."

The victims will never forget.

So each session would go around the circle like this: "I'm Josh. I served three months in county and a year of probation for touching my underage sisters in their private places." The doctor would then say, "Please only use correct anatomical terms." And J would then say, "I touched my sister over her clothes on her vagina and under her clothes on her breast."

They would go around the room saying this. The new ones struggled very badly saying what they did or using correct terminology for body parts, but the guys who had been in the program for years would rattle this off like ordering from McD's.

We focused on all kinds of things in therapy- triggers, temptations, personal struggles that might weaken their resolve to never offend again, etc. For example, the loss of a job could send an offender into a mental tailspin where they start thinking about offending again. So those things were addressed and worked through.

Triggers were a huge topic of discussion. We used a method of cognitive behavioral therapy where the men would recognize their own thought patterns and stop themselves before they even began walking down that mental path. If there were certain smells associated with their sexual fantasies or certain songs on the radio or locations, whatever, we would work with the men to take these thoughts and triggers captive and be fully aware of them. If someone shared that they had a fantasy (sexual or violent in nature) about a woman at the grocery store, it was noted and reported to their PO. But then in the actual group session, it was dissected entirely. Not "what was she wearing." No. More of like, "What triggered your weakness? Were you taking care of yourself and your own thoughts? Have you been seeking out pornography lately?" That sort of thing.

Now, I didn't participate in the one on one sessions. The men were regularly given psychosexual polygraph tests if there was any concern that they were potentially re-offending. (I understand there's plenty of debate about the validity of polygraphs, but this is a fairly standard practice at finding out if someone has been reoffending in a counseling type setting like this one).

They also went through a kind of test called the penile plethysmograph where an offender would actually have a device put around his penis and he would be shown images and the device would read what aroused him. I, as a female intern student, never participated in these tests, but I was told all about them by the doctors at the facility. I had a lot of questions regarding how these men were held accountable outside of the group therapy sessions and PO check ins. From my understanding, this tool was used primarily on the child sex offenders, not the cases of adult sexual assault, but I could be mistaken. It's been a few years.

The program made a huge emphasis on accountability outside of the group. We kept in close contact with these men's families, bosses, and other people who would serve as accountability partners throughout the re-entrance to society process. We made a big emphasis on service. "Your brother allowed for you to move in with him after your release. What have you done for him this week?" I had one guy who got out of prison after a very long stint, moved in with his brother (who's home was approved since it was not near a school, playground, community center, or church), and he struggled to find a job. No one would hire a felon, much less a registered sex offender. So he spent that entire summer renovating his brother's garage. He built shelving, organized junk, built cabinets, etc. I could tell it was healing for him to give back to his brother for giving him this second chance. (He was one of the good ones who I walked away truly believing wouldn't offend again. It's been six years and so far he hasn't). We also checked in with these family members, friends, and employers so they were a big part of the process.

We frequently talked about improper or inappropriate or disrespectful kinds of attention. In other words, we were trying to teach these men to stop being creepy or stop being predatorial towards others.

We offered sex education in a healthy, rehabilitative way. We talked a lot about consent. We talked about how you can violate a person with your eyes even if you aren't touching them or talking to them.

These guys also have no internet, no computers, no smart phones, etc. That was also monitored.

This program was the end of the line. You don't come, you go to jail. You don't participate, you go to jail. These men had all been convicted, so this wasn't an alternative program to time served. I understand this may be more than Josh would have endured were he turned in appropriately, but I think he still would have endured a similar rehabilitation program.

I know people might jump on me because Josh was still a minor at the time of his crimes, and I realize that some of these methods wouldn't be utilized on a minor. However, my point is this: If he had been properly reported, the courts, counselors, doctors, etc. would have moved heaven and earth to try and rehabilitate him and to protect those girls.

I understand, as a parent, that the idea of your child doing something so unspeakable is stomach-churning. I can't even fathom how horrifying it was for Meesh to hear that he was touching the girls. However, I do not believe that all hope is lost for all sexual criminals - to a certain point. I worry that Josh is past the point of no return. To hear the descriptions of the porn he was viewing is sickening.

Unfortunately, we won't ever know what could have become of him if he had been dealt with sooner.

#Josh Duggar #JimBob Duggar #Michelle Duggar #sin in the camp #team legitimate rape #duggar family

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tasteslikemolecules · 3 years

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39, 56

39. What does having Purgatory as an alternate place for nonhuman subspecies to go when they die represent? What does Eve represent?

I honestly never got the point of Eve’s storyline so I’m not sure what she represents (but I liked how creepy she was in the vessel of the little girl). I think she’s most interesting in the sense that while she created monsters, she’s not their God, she’s only their creator and mother. In the show you have that dichotomy of angels and monsters, and angels both report to and are made by God, while demons have a different creator than the person they ‘report’ to. It seems almost more balanced. But of course God created purgatory and Eve too, so he’s the ‘father’ of demons too. If God created purgatory to contain Leviathans (although why didn’t he just destroy them or change them?) and purgatory created Eve who created all the monsters, then he might not have planned any of that. Who knows if the other worlds have purgatories at all. All the different worlds and the different spheres and realms within those worlds? It sounds a bit much. It’s odd that when angels die they go the empty, but when demons and monsters die they go either to hell to purgatory or to the empty. We never really learn how that decision is made when they are so different. Purgatory and hell seem hard, but they seem like being alive in some way. And if you think of how Dean and Benny felt in purgatory, like they were having a purpose and like life made sense - it’s strange to send anyone there as a form of ‘punishment’. Besides, the forest looked really lush. It’s also more real than any of the other post-death spheres, especially compared to heaven. It’s more like being stuck in a brutal video game than drugged into a fake memory dream. It seems better in some way than the alternatives. What would of your favourite way for Cas’s empty deal to be handled would have been?

I thought the whole deal was stupid as the empty had no good reason for making it. It was very clearly drama for drama’s sake. But if it has to be there, I definitely would have wanted it resolved differently, not just because the scene itself played out so strangely. I don’t buy that Cas’ greatest happiness is confessing his feelings. A serious answer: I don’t know how I would have wanted it to be handled. Probably by them defeating the empty before the deal goes through. I don’t like that Cas’ died because of something so silly.

Alternate answer: Cas realizes Dean’s not going to give him the time of day, and also he’s been torturing his son for the past years. In Co-parenting Jack with Sam he finds true happiness away from infatuation and finds long-lasting love. The empty comes to claim him but they just hop into an alternative world without monsters (God didn’t destroy all other worlds because that was silly too), where they renovate an old barn, get rid of rusty nails etc, get a rescue dog and have a big herb garden for Sam’s spells.

#Oh you’re giving me the essay questions!#thank you!#sastiel #?#my asks #Castiel #purgatory #hell #season 15

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dclevinson · 3 years

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August 21: my kaddish month

I’ve sent this to a number of people, but I’m putting it here too in case some readers who might be interested will stumble across it:

A little more than a month has passed since Cindy died, and I get asked a lot how I’m doing. My standard answer starts with a couple ways of framing:

--- the earthquake is over, but there are lots of unpredictable emotional aftershocks

--- I’m past the Shock & Numbness phase, but normal life doesn’t seem normal. Lots of How Can This Be Real moments that can be disorienting and distressing

--- many times emotions collide: how much to lean into or away from grief, how to feel it’s OK to feel OK when I do, how keep her with me and move forward too, etc

I suppose at some point a fascination with grief can start to make others uncomfortable, but grieving has a logic of its own. One key part of “after” life was the 30 days of daily religious services I attended to honor her memory. I found the routine and --- surprisingly, the ritual --- spiritually nourishing. Cindy’s eyebrows always shot up at the word “spiritual.” Usually mine too. I hope those of you I send these four pages to don’t find it too tedious Perhaps it’s a way of keeping Cindy in your thoughts and hearts too…

I am a most unlikely daily mourning ritual observer. I didn’t do it for my father, and he asked us not to. But the ritual mourning prayers and the place where I’d be doing it meant a lot to Cindy, so I just committed without much deliberation. One problem in writing about a fairly traditional type of observance is that the spectrum of Jewish religious practice can be mystifying, even to many Jews. So how explain it to outsiders? I’ve tried to do it without being either too reverent or irreverent.

One basic mourning commitment is to say “kaddish”, the mourner’s prayer, for a set amount of time. Jewish practice and custom is intellectually intricate and often arcane; there are rules and exceptions to rules and different interpretations of rules, etc. There are other customs/demands for remembrance too. Many think of saying kaddish as a year long commitment. Plus yearly anniversaries, set to a moving Hebrew calendar --- just to add to the degree of difficulty. But even the year thing has permutations: actual practice for some groups is 11 months, not 12.

Why?. Different interpreters and communities make their own choices on duration. Our ritual director says “eleven.” Basically, some 13th century source says that “the wicked in Gehinom took 12 months for their souls to reach the highest levels of heaven.” But most Jews don’t even believe in a physical heaven!? Never mind. So, the reasoning goes, if the wicked took 12 months, we’ll mourn for 11: because our beloved Was Not Wicked. Welcome to Talmudic reasoning. But, traditionally, the year(ish) is for parents and children. For spouses the allotted time is 30 days. Though many people today may just do a year for anyone in the family. Thirty struck me as the perfect amount for the act to stay meaningful, helpful and not something I would treat as an increasingly resented chore.

It’s not a prayer that religious custom allows you to say by yourself. You need a minyan (quorum) of 10. It used to be men, but now men or women, at least at our conservative temple (shul, synagogue, whatever --- more insider confusing terminology). But some do say it by themselves for the comfort it brings if finding a group is too arduous. And I cheated a couple days by joining the group virtually. But I found being with a gathering of supporters did matter to me. I could have gone to a shorter evening service to do this, but preferred the morning time. And came to think a 40ish minute observance time a good block to have meaningful daily impact.

And then there’s the prayer itself. I realized right away that the weekday morning prayer service had many different kaddishs, similar prayers of thanks for and praise to a divine entity. But there’s one specific mourner’s version, said 3 times in oour short 40ish minute service. Twice, almost in succession at the end --- overkill or emphasis, depending on your point of view. Why the repeats? Haven’t pursued that yet. And, as some of you know, the prayer for the dead doesn’t mention dying or losing loved ones or honoring their memory, etc. It just profusely praises God (and lots of different words or phrases to refer to such entity since he/she/it is too holy and all powerful to mention the Real Name). Some phrases: “May god’s name be exalted and hallowed, his sovereignty soon accepted… glorified, celebrated, lauded, worshiped, exalted, honored, extolled and acclaimed… Lots of current Jewish religious practice incorporates the Middle Ages wholesale. Or earlier. Read the English on the facing page of the prayer book and much of the service sounds like the practice of a small, threatened tribe huddling in the desert thousands of years ago.

There’s a lot about Jewish practice that seems natural and essential to practitioners but might alienate the uninitiated. Or reluctant observers like me. The head coverings. The shoulder covering prayer shawls. The standing for this (many do: why not all??!), turning right for that, covering eyes for this line, fingering prayer shawl strings (tzitzit) for that. Whew. So many prayers and practices for so many different occasions. Designed, I’ve thought, to cement the devotion of believers. But it repel skeptics, too, I surmise.

One such example: in these early services most men put on tefillin. Leather straps with little black boxes attached (a prayer inside) that have very specific wrapping/unwrapping procedures for arms and head. It’s deeply moving to believers, but I’ve always thought it look repellent or ridiculous. Way too much like the garb of the ultra orthodox “crazies.” There are lots of I’ll do this/not that decisions in religious practice. I understand there’s a tenuous dynamic that exists between any minority and majority community, and clinging to tradition and being true to oneself can seem preferable to “selling out” to fit in. But sometimes it strikes us skeptics as more a clinging to “guns and religion” type intransigence.

So, if you walked in on these services cold (I was lukewarm), there’s lots that would be pretty mystifying and potentially off-putting. How could you possibly fit in? In fact, I believe I was the only new guy or gal over my month. And there had to be a decent number of temple members who have lost family members during the time I attended. Seemingly no person younger than I was doing the morning kaddish thing. And usually I was the only or 1 of 2 who didn’t put on tefillin. Men. Women usually don’t. Though one of our female rabbis did. Good for her, though I wasn’t tempted to follow.

I could fit in and feel comfortable at these services because a) I knew people there b) I was committed to being there and c) people took care of me. I no longer bristled at the imputation (real or just in my head?) that I’m a Bad Jew and I need instruction to be a Good One. This time I felt many there had cherished Cindy, understood why I was there, and quietly welcomed me. I was willing to look/be ignorant and accept guidance.

It was reassuring to see many of Cindy’s compatriots from the temple sisterhood there day after day too. The whole group (20 to 40 most days) was interesting to observe: lots more joking and side conversations during the service than I’d imagined. And there was the guy older than I who usually wore cycling shorts and shirt, the much older guy who sat to my right who usually shuffled in 15 minutes late, etc etc. Lots of accomplished people and interesting stories for another writer’s version. And --- most days --- someone called out the pages so I had some sense where we were.

I can read Hebrew if I already know the prayer or chant. So I can’t really read Hebrew anymore. Much of the service is praising God’s amazing powers, thanking him for singling out and helping Jews (don’t let anti-Semites see this!), an intricate mix of different intricate sections that over days start to fit a pattern. There are a always some bits in any prayer book that I find edifying and worth recalling; often I’m reading in one place when the service is in another. My favorite in this one:

Rabbi Schuel ben Nahmani said: We find that the Holy One created everything in the world; only falsehood and exaggeration were not God’s doing. People devised those on their own.

There’s no sermon on any days, just the chanting. And different melodies for different sections. And torah reading ritual (I could spend pages on this alone) Monday and Thursday. I still have to learn why those days. I preferred the shorter days without.

I was most fortunate to have a long time neighbor and, like Cindy, long time temple leader who I was delighted to learn (only some 30 some years later) is a regular attendee of daily morning services. Like Cindy, he has the ability I don’t to take what’s worthwhile in religious practice and ignore the rest. He credits Cindy with his reading the new alternate section of one prayer praising the Patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) by adding Matriarchs too.

It’s not supposed to be used at this particular service, but a couple women who led services on a rotating schedule snuck it in. Much to my friend Rick’s and my glee. He joked about wanting to write: Minyan, the Musical. Have to decide how reverent or irreverent to be I replied. Yes he said, and some would love it, some hate it. Like so much else in life, I thought.

There’s way more I could describe: the various “honors” during torah reading for one. Early on I got congratulated for pulling the strings to open the torah ark/cabinet. Basically, the only task our ritual director could be sure at that point I wouldn’t flub. One more key detail: I was wearing Cindy remarkable hand knit prayer shawl. Which, of course, many of her friends recognized. Once I made the mistake when taking it off at the service end of holding it to my face: way too emotional to repeat daily. Much more detail I could include, but there’s likely already too much. Ask me if you want more.

I was asked to say a few words on the last day, right before the concluding prayers. I told people I was a most unlikely minyan attendee, etc. Grateful for this and that person’s help and Rebbe Rick’s (joke) guidance and company. Uplifted seeing Cindy’s sisterhood comrades, etc. Hoped in coming months to find an enduring way to honor her memory, etc.

My one specific observation: I had been hearing people recite kaddish at Saturday services off and on for over 60 years. But I’d never given a thought to the brief parts where the congregation joins in on a quick line. Just part of the practice I’d heard without really hearing. Until I was the mourner. Then, on many days when the congregation joined in…

Y’he sh’meh rabbvo m’orach l’olam ulolmey olmayo…

…on many days I felt my heart lifting and a wave of emotional support wash over me. This is why you should say kaddish in a minyan if at all possible. Or I hope in your tradition or life there’s some equivalent thing to bring you comfort when/if you need it. Em and I have been lighting candles at a set time each week also. That works for us too.

The morning group skews old. But I hope that such a group is always there for anyone who needs it. I don’t want to attend any religious services daily. Or weekly. But this is my favorite service. I’ll be back. But on a day they don’t read torah. Forty minutes is plenty.

I decided, too, that on day 30, I would take off my wedding ring. I sensed that if I didn’t tie that act to a ritual I might have a hard time doing it.

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carebearbliss · 4 years

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How NCT 127 would confess to you

A/N: This took way longer than it was intended, but here it is! Hope you enjoy~

Taeil

Taeil went over the plan at least 50 times to make sure the delivery would be as smooth as he hoped it would be

Probably couldn’t really sleep the night before cause what if you reject him????

Plans on singing a love song specially for you, like a private mini concert in a rented out café you two frequent a lot

When you get to your usual hangout spot, the lights were out and you were confused af

But then as the lights went back on again you saw Taeil standing on a makeshift stage and the café was decorated with cute fairy lights and balloons and all

Then music started playing as he serenaded you sweetly and honestly you were already sold from the minute he started singing ngl

Kinda messes up what he prepared to say to you afterwards because he doesn’t want to screw it up but also when he looks at you his mind kinda goes blank

So happy and relieved when you tell him the feeling’s mutual that he lowkey almost tripped on the way back to his seat cause he lost feeling in both his legs

Lots of shy and awkward gazing and blushing on both parts, but when you meet each other’s gaze he gives you the brightest smile ever

Overall just really adorable????

Johnny

I swear 10/10 this guy had something elaborate and romantic planned out the moment he realized his feelings for you

Would probably pull out something kinda cheesy to impress you, like playing your favorite song on the piano (or teaching you how to play, o o f)

I can see him taking you on walks around the city afterwards, someplace quiet with a nice scenery that would provide a nice backdrop for his confession

Tells you he’s gonna go pick up a call real quick, then kinda disappears

You get lowkey angry like wtf Johnny w h a t are you doing, but then he sends you text messages to a sort of scavenger hunt

Was actually planning on just telling you verbally what you mean to him and how he feels for you but then realized he’s not really good at doing that face to face so this is his fun alternative

Anyways, he gives you hints and directions through text message and at each ‘landmark’ he directs you to, you find small notes where he wrote down what exactly he likes about you and moments he realized he’s in love with you

Basically the boi wrote you a love letter but scattered around at least 7 different spots while he’s hiding who knows where

By the time you get to the final spot you see him standing in front of you with a large bouquet in his hands (for you) and this silly grin on his face

Lowkey almost moved you to tears as he told you he likes you

You spend the night looking at the stars and walking hand in hand as you two talk about anything and everything at the same time

Taeyong

Y’know those smooth pick-up lines he pulls out of his sleeves? Yeah, prepare for those cause they are definitely coming your way

Would probably go for a sweet and sentimental confession

Lowkey tries to hint at his feelings for you by recommending love songs every now and then

One day he randomly shows up at your doorstep with your favorite flowers in one hand and a gift in the other (and also some snacks and sweets cause why the heck not)

I can see him gifting you something very meaningful, like a photo album with pictures of you two and places you went together or an entire playlist of songs that made him think of you

You thought it’d just be a normal hangout with your best friend

But then he tries to coyly recommend a song to you and asks you to listen to it and tell him what you think of it

5 seconds in you realize it’s actually him singing a self-made confession song for you

He gets embarrassed halfway through you listening to the song cause you keep staring at him with this touched expression on your face

But when the song’s over you’re just kind of left speechless until you tell him “me too.. I like you too” and it’s like his heart stopped skipping a beat and he was sent straight to heaven on earth

All in all just a really sweet and thoughtful confession asdfghjkl;

Yuta

Ever since Yuta realized how he felt toward you, he’s been trying his best to not impulsively blurt out that he likes you, especially because he’s not sure if it’s mutual

Occasionally can’t help but murmur “you’re so cute” under his breath when he’s spending time with you though

You know he tends to be quite playful and flirtatious around you, so whenever he tries to make advances you just play it off as him joking around (half the time he’s actually seriously stopping himself from stealing a kiss ngl)

One day he decides to ask you out on a date over the phone and you agree thinking it’s just him being goofy again cause what else could it be??

Yuta takes you on a hiking date, aiming to take you to this nice and scenic viewpoint and confess there

But things take a different turn when halfway through the hike you realize that he was actually being serious about this date and he realizes you thought he was playing around

Then he kind of goes off on this impulsive rant like ‘Damn it Y/N I’ve been flirting with you for an entire year why do you keep thinking I’m not being serious about this’ and yeah he kind of floops out that he’s been crushing on you ever since y’all met

So things didn’t really go as planned but you had a serious conversation about it and by the time you reached the viewpoint you were already holding hands and smiling fondly at each other :’)

Doyoung

Has been torn for weeks about how to confess to you and it’s showing

He wants to plan something that would make sure you knew how much he cared about you, so he scoured every possible source he could find, including the internet, all his good friends he could confide into, and even asked his parents who confessed to the other and how..

Anyways, when Doyoung meets up with you he still hasn’t made his mind about how to confess

And technically he wasn’t planning on doing so either, until he saw how battered up you looked from an ugly fall off the stairs last week and how you tried to hide that wearing a big hoodie and sunglasses

During winter

You thought he didn’t notice though until he kind of had enough of your act and just pulled off the hoodie from your head and took off your glasses to reveal this bigass purple bruise on your face, still evident beneath your make-up

Doyoung couldn’t help seeing you so vulnerable and inattentive toward your own wellbeing and so gave you an entire lecture nagging at you to be more careful

Over the next few days he comes by unannounced to check the safety of basically your entire home to make sure you wouldn’t trip again and also takes care of your bruise and minor grazes on your arms and knees

And it just so happened that he accidentally murmured “How did I fall in love with such a clumsy human being” just when he thought you didn’t hear it

You replied with “How did I fall in love with such a nagging mom-figure” and well, the rest is history :’)

Jaehyun

Actually, you kind of knew for a while now that he probably had a crush on you because of that one time he accidentally sent a text to you that said “I don’t know what to do, should I confess to Y/N?”

You read the message before he quickly deleted it and since then both of you pretended that never happened

Anyways, I can see Jaehyun taking you out for a nice dinner at this new and trendy restaurant (complete with lit candles and fancy music and all)

He’d try his best to appear calm and composed, and he would’ve succeeded had his hands not been trembling when he poured more wine in both your glasses

Probably has this whole speech ready in his back pocket just in case he forgot what he wanted to say

But before he can start on that you casually say “So is this how you’re planning on confessing to me?” and Jaehyun automatically answers yes before he’s processed that you in fact knew all along how he felt for you

You let him finish his confession speech though cause he worked so hard on it, and you obviously accept to be his girlfriend

He even prepared a little surprise for you together with the staff, it was a cute cake with both your names in the shape of a heart

The date ends with you two talking and having fun conversations at the restaurant until it closed (and you had to be kicked out)

Jungwoo

I see so many ways in which Jungwoo would confess, simply cause he can be so shy and reserved but also really sassy and goofy at the same time

Anyways, I think he’d go for something a little more subtle than his hyungs would, kinda secret admirer style?

The first time you realized you had a secret admirer was when you found a note in your bag containing a compliment directed toward you and a cute drawing next to it

You thought it was really sweet and so Jungwoo continued sending you love notes and putting it in random but somewhat inconspicuous spots, like your locker, your books, etc.

This went on for a couple of months until one day Jungwoo decied it was time to make it known that he was the secret admirer, so he started announcing in a note that he was someone you knew well

That’s when you started finding notes at the most random of places: inside your phonecase, heck even the inside of your shoe

You had absolutely no clue who this person was and were growing kind of agitated at the fact that you couldn’t send him notes back, until Jungwoo slipped up once and complimented you in the exact same way as your secret admirer did

On the day he planned to confess, you were just casually studying together (or more like, you were trying to study and he was just staring at you boredly)

Jungwoo waited patiently until you finished, then told you you had something stuck in your hair

And as you reached for it, you found it to be a folded piece of paper stating “I like you”, with Jungwoo smiling knowingly at you

Mark

Would be a panicking mess, let’s be real

Asks all the hyungs for advice on what to do

Mark would take you to someplace special for the both of you, like the place you first met or where he first realized he has feelings for you

He wouldn’t hold a big speech or make it into a big event, he’d want to keep it simple and to the point so as not to burden you too much

I see him just wanting to make it a fun day when you two meet up, confession or not

Like a walk along the river or at a park, some icecream, maybe even biking or (roller)skating around and picknicking

Tries to find the right timing to break the news to you, fails miserably at doing so most of the time

You knew he had something to say though cause he avoided making direct eye contact with you throughout the entire day

But when he’s ready, he musters up all his courage, coughs a little as a way of making clear that he has something to say, and then just goes for it

Panics halfway through the confession, like he just turns into this shy blushy mess, especially when he stutters or messes up his words

Kinda rambles his way through it but looks you directly in the eye when he says that he likes you

Would add something like “I hope this doesn’t affect our friendship” after confessing cause that’s legit been the nr. 1 reason why he was hesitating confessing to you

Overall would be really nervous about it, but also very sweet and sincere!

Haechan

9/10 would go for an over the top public confession, just cause he can

You two met up at this arcade, your usual hangout spot to relieve yourselves from stress and play fun games together

You originally thought it would be just a normal day meeting up with your longtime friend, but turns out you were completely wrong

Cause the minute you stepped into the venue, you were met with all kinds of festive decorations, balloons, and familiar faces shouting “SURPRISE!!!” at the top of their lungs

Turns out Haechan planned a surprise party for you complete with hilarious banners with him making heart signs

When you turned around to look at Haechan, he was kneeling on the floor holding a big bouquet of your favorite flowers and this giant teddy bear

As he looked up to you, he asked you to be his girlfriend, to which you said yes and were met with a rainfall of confetti and cheering

You spent the day playing fun games with your boyfriend and friends

(And to Haechan’s discontent and envy, you kinda beat him at almost every arcade game there was to play)

#nct #nct 127 #nct reaction #nct scenario #boyfriend #nct taeyong #nct johnny #nct haechan #nct jaehyun #nct mark #nct jungwoo #nct doyoung #nct taeil #nct yuta #kpop reaction #nct edit #nct confess

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bemused-writer · 4 years

Text

Analysis of Subaru, Kamui, and Subaru/Kamui

Ever since I first read X/1999 I was of the Subaru/Kamui persuasion. The two have each suffered a great deal and went out of their way to support one another; every single scene they have is of them doing just that as best they can. And since I have returned to my X/1999 obsession with a vengeance, I figure it’s time to take a look at this ship–and the characters themselves–with everything I got. Technically, this is not a “confirmed” ship. Technically, there are a lot of unconfirmed or implied ships floating around X/1999. I figure that's on account of CLAMP’s multishipping tendencies. Anyhow…

Before we get into this, I won't be taking Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicles into account for two reasons: 1) It is an AU and therefore is supposed to give us an alternative look at the characters and 2) If I start including the plotlines of Tsubasa we will never finish this review. X/1999 is already plenty long. 8D I might do a separate post about their interactions in Tsubasa once I reread that manga, though.

With that out of the way, let’s take a look. One of the most obvious things people have to say about these two is that they’re reflections of each other. They’ve been through similar experiences and similar traumas. Their reactions to those experiences are quite different, however, and goes a long way towards explaining why they take separate paths later in the series. Let’s start with their first meeting.

When Subaru first meets Kamui, it’s literally at the worst phase of Kamui’s life. His best friend, Fuuma, has just had his brain washed thanks to fate (!) and the woman he loved, Kotori, was murdered by said best friend right before his eyes. As if all that wasn’t bad enough, he was nearly killed by Fuuma as well, which took on a weird, sexual vibe, which becomes pretty consistent on Fuuma’s part throughout the series.

All of this is extremely similar to what Subaru endured at Seishirou’s hands in Tokyo Babylon years earlier (although the sexual component with Seishirou is toned down quite a bit in comparison). There are some notable differences in circumstance, however, and these circumstances are important to understanding the fundamental differences between Subaru and Kamui themselves. As Subaru says, their pain isn’t the same.

The most pertinent difference between the two is the cause that led them into a coma in the first place and what ultimately brought them out of it. For Subaru, the betrayal and abuse at the hands of the man he loved is what sent him into a coma while the death of his sister, the other person he loved most, is what brought him out of it. In other words, traumatic shock put him into a coma and traumatic shock forced him out of it. There wasn't a single moment that wasn't painful.

For Kamui, it’s quite different. The death of the woman he loved along with the betrayal and abuse at the hands of his best friend is what sent him into the coma. It was doubly traumatic because Kamui lost everything all at once. This is a big part of why Sorata was so worried Kamui would never wake up; he literally had nothing tying him to reality. The only two people he'd ever had a significant bond with were both gone in one fell swoop. The only reason he emerged from this is, of course, because of Subaru’s intervention.

Perhaps the only reason Kamui is even slightly well-adjusted is thanks to the much gentler wake-up call he had in comparison to Subaru. Frankly, after Hokuto died, Subaru didn't have anyone for nine years. It's no wonder he dwelled on nothing but Seishirou, barely managed his duties as head of the Sumeragi clan, and developed a suicidal wish to keep him going.

Kamui has Subaru, so he managed to avoid a lot of that. He's still obsessed with Fuuma, but he has other things to occupy his time with.

Some other differences in Subaru and Kamui's backstory to keep in mind: Seishirou was acting like a good guy in Tokyo Babylon. Fate had absolutely nothing to do with his transformation into a bad guy; that's just how he is. Fuuma actually was a good person who had the good persona wiped away and replaced with ... his fated personality, I suppose. I think this explains some of Kamui's stubbornness when it comes to rescuing Fuuma; he knows fate isn't fair and Fuuma was a victim of it.

Subaru has no such delusions. He knows Seishirou was playing him for a fool and he knows he has no regrets about it. It's why his wish isn't to fix Seishirou; it's merely to die at his hands, so he can finally let go of the whole thing.

And Subaru does his best to keep himself at a distance from his fellow Dragons of Heaven for the sake of this endeavor. He doesn't really befriend any of them or spend any real amount of time with them; he knows his wish will bring nothing but pain to anyone that cares for him, so he tries to avoid those attachments. I suspect we wouldn't have heard much from Subaru in this series if he hadn't become unexpectedly attached to Kamui himself.

So, let's get back to their first meeting. Kamui is in a coma and Subaru delves into his memories in order to help him. This isn't the first time Subaru has done this, and there are a few parallels to his previous case to consider with this one.

In volume 2 of Tokyo Babylon, Subaru has to help a woman, Mitsuki, that he once knew that had fallen into a coma after being sexually assaulted. It's implied this is the first time Subaru has entered someone's mind to help them, and he comments it will be easier if she remembers him at least a little. He'd been dreaming of her earlier that very day.

Now, not only does Mitsuki remember him, it's revealed that she's harbored a crush on him since they were children. It's never made very clear whether or not Subaru returns those feelings, although there are some jokes from Seishirou that she is his rival in love. Regardless, Subaru saves a woman that considers him special and only emerges from her coma thanks to Subaru's kind words.

So, when Subaru enters Kamui’s mind, he knows it will be dangerous. Kamui doesn’t know him at all; there isn’t any kind of attachment to make this easier. But the end result is very similar to what we see in Tokyo Babylon: Kamui emerges both because of Subaru’s kind words, but also because he’s found someone that understands the pain he’s been through to some degree. Both Mitsuki and Kamui reverted to childhood in their sorrow as well, a time where things were much simpler and the world easier to understand.

There’s no doubt that Kamui considers Subaru special after this. How could he not? And if we compare Kamui’s case directly with Mitsuki’s there’s at least the implication he may grow to care for Subaru in a similar fashion to Mitsuki. CLAMP went out of there way to draw as many comparisons between Subaru’s past and Kamui’s present as they could within this series, so I think it’s fair to make this assumption.

It's also notable that Subaru's own feelings on the matter are harder to read in both situations. Did he have feelings for Mitsuki or was she simply a treasured friend from his past? Her words had haunted him for years at that point, so her opinion definitely mattered. Likewise, it's harder for us to tell what he thinks about Kamui. We can tell there's a deep bond and affection there, but it's not quite as straightforward.

The hug is actually quite important here. They held one another in the dreamscape and then continued to in reality. This is interesting because neither Subaru nor Kamui are physically affectionate people. Subaru only ever hugged his sister and maintains a kind of no-contact rule with people in general. He never initiated physical contact with Seishirou throughout Tokyo Babylon and definitely doesn't in X/1999. He doesn't go out of his way to pat his fellow Dragons of Heaven on the back the way Sorata does. The only exception is Kamui.

As for Kamui, he just … isn’t affectionate. 8D You’ll recall how crabby he was at the beginning of X/1999. He was pushing everyone away in a misguided attempt at protecting them. Then, one of the only notable times he initiated physical contact was when he held Kotori in his arms and cupped Fuuma’s cheek for the last time, and that was when he was incredibly distressed and finally willing to admit how much he cared about them both.

These are two people he’s known and trusted his whole life, so it makes sense he would allow some physical contact between them. Consider how he reacts to Sorata, Keiichi, evil!Fuuma, and pretty much anyone else that tries to initiate physical contact: it’s met with either confusion, overt hostility, or acceptance without reciprocation. Honestly, Sorata’s gotten all three of these reactions… 8D

The one exception is Subaru, who he not only accepts physical contact from, but will also initiate. So, the two of them are relatively similar in how they approach this, which is something we'll see throughout this review.

While Subaru was in Kamui’s dreamscape, they discuss several important things, such as the fact Kamui is trying to escape reality and the fact nothing will change or improve if he remains in the coma. He also explains his relationship with Seishirou and how things became much worse when he refused to leave the confines of his own mind.

But there’s a small detail CLAMP drops that I always found interesting.

This isn’t meant to show Kamui as naive. On the contrary, this is actually pretty wise and gets back to Subaru’s Shinto roots. Subaru is an onmyoji, a follower of onmyodo, which is a mix of Chinese philosophy (the five elements, yin-yang theory, etc.), Buddhism, and has elements of Japanese philosophy, i.e. Shintoism.

In Shinto, things really do have lives, and they deserve respect. It's yet another demonstration of how the Sakurazukamori are the opposite of the Sumeragi; they use these basic ideals and corrupt them. Things aren’t important, and neither are people.

So, in one fell swoop, Kamui has reminded Subaru of his own philosophy and demonstrated a fundamental difference between his worldview and Seishirou’s. Kamui is approaching things from a similar place Subaru would have when he was younger (it’s hard to say how much faith Subaru has in his own practice at this point; he’s pretty jaded).

Ultimately, Subaru asks Kamui several questions that give insight into both of their mindsets while they're in the dreamscape: If his [Fuuma’s] true self is restored, are you willing to tell him you killed Kotori? Even if it means he’ll hate you? Even if you must shoulder the blame for the rest of your life? Even if no one else will understand what you wished for and the reasons why?

It’s a pretty serious line of questioning because, in all honesty, what Kamui wants is dangerous. There’s no guarantee he can ever have it, and if he does attain his wish, no one will be spared the repercussions of it, least of all himself. In contrast, Subaru’s wish is a lot less destructive for the world as a whole, but he’s still hurting the people who care about him with it. Still, a lot of these questions are probably the same ones Subaru has had to ask himself over and over again. He knows no one will understand his own wish, that he will have to shoulder the blame for it, and that some could even hate him for valuing himself so little. He's making absolutely sure that Kamui understands the repercussions.

The thing is, while Kamui is willing to shoulder all the potential problems that might arise when Fuuma is restored, he's not at all prepared to think about whether this wish is what he actually wants or if it's even worth all the other problems that will arise from it. Subaru doesn't bring any of that up likely because he's never had to think of the whole planet with his wish. This is outside his own experience. He's doing his best for Kamui, but there are some things he simply won't understand. It's why he pointed out that his pain and Kamui's pain are different; there are some things they won't understand about each other, even with these similarities.

Our next important scene with Subaru and Kamui takes on a much less dramatic tone, which is probably for the best; there’s very little chill time in this series. 8D

Kamui has enrolled in high school due to its location being where the sword will be hidden until he has need of it. He visits Kotori’s grave, which is nearby, and then goes to study with Subaru, though a fellow classmate, Keiichi, had been trying to gain his attention.

For one brief, shining moment, it’s as if we’re in a completely different series where the world isn’t about to end…

But the first thing that’s interesting about this is that it means they must be conversing off screen if they’re making plans to meet up, which is a theme that becomes very common with these two. Unlike the bulk of the Dragons of Heaven, Subaru doesn't live in the same dormitory as Kamui, so they’d have to figure out some way of meeting up. I would have liked to see some of that planning and how often they meet up to study, but CLAMP leaves all that to the imagination.

At any rate, Subaru has enrolled in the college and Kamui is worried he will get in trouble for skipping class to help him.

There’s a lot that's wrong with this. First of all, Subaru is only enrolled in college because it’s a good way of tracking down Seishirou, which Kamui swiftly picks up on. This is incredibly sad because throughout Tokyo Babylon, Subaru had been trying very hard to graduate from high school so that he could then go to college and become a zookeeper. This complete lack of interest in college or anything he once cared about is constantly present and goes a long way towards explaining why Subaru cracks as the series progresses.

Kamui is always very quick to figure out when Subaru is thinking about the Sakurazukamori even though, outside of their first meeting, he never directly brings him up of his own accord. There isn’t a single time when Kamui looks happy about it either. The sheer frequency with which Kamui brings up the Sakurazukamori makes me think he’s constantly looking for confirmation that that man really is the only person Subaru cares about, as if Kamui is hoping one day he’ll give a different response.

At any rate, what Kamui is really taking issue with here is Subaru’s smoking and his attachment to the Sakurazukamori. Subaru says he smokes because it makes him more powerful (which is such… a lie? Does he think anyone would actually believe that?) to which Kamui has this as a response:

Kamui appears sad and disappointed at the answer because it is a disappointing answer (and a lie, but I digress) and Subaru looks surprised because… I think he was actually worried Kamui thought he would be ineffective as a Dragon of Heaven due to the smoking, that it would hinder him in battle. The fact Kamui is worried about his health didn’t even cross his mind.

Their exact exchange was this:

Kamui: But… don’t you worry that it’ll–

Subaru: It’s fine. Some people find that smoking weakens their powers, but for me it has the opposite effect.

He doesn’t let Kamui finish his sentence and immediately comes across as a little defensive about the whole thing. So, yeah, Subaru didn’t think Kamui would care because he cares about Subaru. He thought Kamui only cared as the Kamui, his leader. Realizing he was mistaken changes the rest of their dynamic for the duration of their study session. Subaru snuffs out the cigarette and resumes where they’d left off.

We don’t actually get to see the rest of the study session, though it's implied it goes on for a while. Keiichi interrupts things at some point because he is determined to hangout with Kamui. His reaction to Subaru is both amusing and kind of telling.

Keiichi’s repeated apologies to Subaru for interrupting and stealing Kamui away followed up by his comment that Subaru is good-looking to Kamui really makes it sound like he thought he was interrupting a date and/or that he thinks Kamui is interested in Subaru. Especially after he turns it all around by telling Kamui that he's really good looking as well and, as if that wasn’t enough, invites him to his house and offers to tutor him.

Uh… I’m just going to say it. Keiichi has never been subtle in regards to his massive crush on Kamui and he clearly thinks he’s stealing Kamui away from a potential love interest. 8D

My goodness. XD I really don’t think Kamui picked up on any of that dynamic. He just thinks Keiichi is friendly and kind of weird. It’s like Kamui has developed Sakura syndrome and Keiichi is Tomoyo.

As for Kamui, we get an idea of how he views Subaru thanks to this exchange and it's pretty interesting. It also explains pretty much every single one of Kamui's reactions to Subaru and why their interactions go the way they do.

There’s definitely a lot of fondness there. He agrees that Subaru is good looking and we get an actual image of how he sees him: someone who is ethereal, almost untouchable with a very literal barrier (of water from the dreamscape), but he's willing to reach out and bring Kamui to his level. He absolutely views Subaru as a savior because that’s precisely what Subaru did for him. That’s a pretty complicated relationship, quite a bit more complicated than Keiichi is thinking, that’s for sure.

As for Subaru, he resumes his smoking as soon as Kamui is out of sight. I think Kamui suspected that’s why he wanted to stay behind because he looks contemplative when Subaru says he isn’t coming with. Even Keiichi seems surprised. Maybe that’s why he thought he had a chance with Kamui? (Also, Keiichi and Kamui’s interactions kind of deserve their own analysis because he’s Kamui’s one tie to normalcy and Keiichi has a profound attachment to Kamui the second they meet.)

Even so, Kamui's words about smoking being bad for him sticks with Subaru and you can tell he's conflicted about it. He keeps the cigarettes close, but there's less certainty about it than there was earlier in their conversation.

This part in particular is up for interpretation since there’s no dialogue, but to me it reads as Subaru being unable to let Seishirou go, but possibly wishing he were capable of it. He knows his wish will hurt people, and Subaru has never been content with that. This scene also makes me think of Subaru's one-shot chapter, where a woman says only a person with an ill heart can go around thinking only of one person. Subaru knows smoking is bad for him, but he's also already accepted he's "ill."

I’m a little unclear on how much time has passed, but the next time Kamui and Subaru see each other, it’s after Kamui is returning home from Keiichi’s house. He’s attacked by Fuuma and Subaru rushes in to save him.

Subaru legitimately came out of nowhere in this scene. Where was he before? How'd he get there so quickly? I know that the Dragons of Heaven can sense when a kekkai is raised, but Kamui can't raise one, so... I honestly can't remember, can the Dragons of Heaven just sense when Kamui is in danger? Because if not, I really don't know how Subaru knew to be exactly where he was needed.

Regardless, the battle between Fuuma and Kamui was going about as well as it usually does, which is to say absolutely terribly. Subaru gets a kekkai raised, and we actually get to see him use his onmyoji abilities in earnest against Nataku. You have no idea how much I wish we'd gotten to see infinitely more of this.

Unfortunately, Subaru ultimately loses once Fuuma joins the fray, but that’s because Fuuma is, frankly, an OP villain. I have never understood why the villains are so much more powerful than the good guys in this series. That’s just bad game design.

So, Subaru actually manages to capture Fuuma in a kekkai. I’m a little unclear on what the end goal of this was going to be. Annihilating him? Trapping him for good? But we don’t get to find out because Subaru gets lost in visions of Seishirou, the man he wants to kill him. To add insult to injury, Fuuma attacks him the same way Seishirou did when he was 16 and blinds his eye, saying it’s “his wish.” Ever notice Fuuma only seems to grant the really messed up wishes? He doesn’t have to grant all of these. He could focus on some nice ones for a change. Sheesh…

More importantly (as far as this review goes), Kamui is once again in the same situation Subaru was when he was 16. He is being protected by someone who loses their eye and he was powerless to stop it, just as Subaru was all those years ago. The main difference is that back then, Subaru was purposefully allowing someone to take their anger out on him and Seishirou got in the way. Kamui was forcibly restrained from the battle and had no choice but to witness events. It also shows the difference in their personality: Subaru isn't predisposed to fighting and is more than willing to be hurt if it helps another while Kamui is perfectly all right with fighting, he just doesn't want to hurt the other Kamui because it will hurt Fuuma.

There are some other differences as well. When Seishirou’s eye was gouged out he kind of just… walked into the ER? 8D Didn’t comfort Subaru, just casually stopped the woman from attacking him and walked away. So, Subaru’s distress levels were through the roof.

Kamui’s distress levels are also ridiculously high, but once again, Subaru is far more compassionate than Seishirou and I’m sure Subaru can see the parallels here. He knows exactly what Kamui’s going through, and he doesn’t want Kamui beating himself up the way he did to himself all those years ago. He actually stops the gurney in an effort to comfort him.

It definitely helps, but sometimes Subaru is a little too honest with Kamui. He tells him this was his “wish.” Needless to say, that doesn’t exactly ease Kamui’s mind because it raises a lot of questions about Subaru's mental state he probably hadn't even been considering before.

What follows is the most clear cut parallel we’ve ever had between Subaru and Kamui. Subaru’s despair at possibly losing Seishirou when he was 16 is nearly identical to Kamui’s despair at nearly losing Subaru in the present. CLAMP is not doing this accidentally.

This, almost more than anything else, makes me believe that Kamui has feelings for Subaru because there’s not really a reason to include this parallel otherwise. In Tokyo Babylon, after Seishirou lost his eye, Subaru realized he was in love with him. It wasn't right away, but that was the incident that sparked the whole thing.

After Subaru loses his eye, Kamui stays by his side as much as possible. Kamui is never shown to have a sudden revelation he’s in love, but this is where the differences between Subaru and Kamui really become important.

Back then, Subaru was terrified of Seishirou hating him after the eye incident, and I think a lot of that comes down to the fact that Seishirou was trying to win a bet. He proclaimed his love to Subaru all the time, but he was also mysterious and decidedly standoffish. Subaru had a difficult time reading him, therefore he couldn’t predict what Seishirou would think of him afterwards.

Subaru also has a fundamentally different personality to Kamui; he had no awareness of his own feelings toward Seishirou until his sister made him think about it and a stranger said it sounded like he really loved this individual.

Whether Kamui is worried Subaru will hate him is a little unclear, but we do know that one of Kamui’s biggest opinions of Subaru is that he’s very kind. We also know he admires him as the man that saved him and saw him at his worst already. Subaru is always honest and very open with Kamui; there isn’t any additional layer of confusion in this regard (there is confusion about other things, though). The only thing Kamui fears right now is Subaru dying in this situation. He also feels massive guilt for being incapable of helping him. Kamui is taking the blame for this.

Another difference is that Kamui doesn’t have anyone deliberately trying to get him to think about his feelings for Subaru, but I think Kamui is more predisposed to falling for people in general? Or at least more capable of realizing when he has. He loved Kotori and never seemed to be in denial about it from what I can tell. It wasn’t declared in a straightforward manner in the manga, but the series made it apparent enough through other things. Kotori is considered his canonical love interest for this very reason. And I think that’s more or less what we ought to expect in regards to Kamui’s feelings toward Subaru. There isn’t going to be a big revelation; it will simply be.

And part of that quiet revelation is how attached he continues to be to Subaru after this incident.

Subaru is overtly worried about Kamui, probably because he knows how worked up he was over Seishirou himself when it happened, but also because he thinks Kamui hasn't slept. "It's harder for him to bear the wounds to his heart than the wounds to his body." Subaru definitely understands Kamui's pain all too well and he knows that while this particular incident is his own fault, Kamui is the one who will shoulder the blame, just as he did all those years ago.

It's interesting that Kamui asks for permission to visit him again. It definitely implies that maybe he actually is a little worried Subaru doesn't want him around, that he's sending him away because he's upset with him.

Kamui looks quite distressed at first, but one look from Subaru and he knows Subaru isn’t upset with him; he's worried about him.

These two tend to be very quiet around each other as soon as other people are in the room, and both Sorata and Arashi are right there. As soon as they’re alone, they engage in far more intimate conversation. Yet, they appear to be pretty good at silent communication as well and a lot is exchanged in the above panels.

Even if Subaru has forgiven him, Kamui is still plagued by what happened (understandably). He compares it to his failure to save Kotori. Two important people to him are hurt/killed because he couldn’t fight against Fuuma. It’s a powerful dilemma and a powerful comparison.

Still, after a conversation with Sorata, a visit to Kotori's grave, and a conversation with Keiichi, Kamui has renewed hope. He can do something against Fuuma: he can protect the people he cares about. This renews Kamui's determination to learn how to create a kekkai, a plot point that is never actually finished... I honestly wonder if would have learned to create one? And what would have sparked that?

We get a little insight into what Subaru is thinking about events, though. It's about as depressing as you'd expect with the trajectory of this series.

Subaru has a selfish wish. He knows that wish will hurt everyone that knows him and now there are quite a few people who care about him, something he'd been trying to avoid.

Yuzuriha is entirely correct in her analysis here, though for more reasons than she might realize. She's essentially saying that both Kamui and Subaru look down on themselves and try to solve things on their own. It's why she makes them promise to call on her if they need help. But she's also correct in another way: they both have selfish wishes and they're hurting everyone around them for the sake of those wishes. Subaru is hurting people on an emotional level by pursuing death, while Kamui is inadvertently getting people injured and killed for the sake of rescuing Fuuma. The message is clear: if these two could let go of their one "wish" they could finally move on to other possibilities and would be far more effective at saving the world. It's a cruel irony that CLAMP made their kindest character and their hero the most emotionally compromised and the most inadvertently selfish. It's also a little unfortunate that kindness and hope seem to get trampled on so much in this series, but that's a whole separate issue.

Yuzuriha also leaves Subaru with a parting gift and, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if she reminds him of his sister just a bit.

The cherry blossoms definitely bring Seishirou to mind as well as Subaru's wish for death, but it also makes me think of Hokuto as well, especially the rabbit plush. It just seems like something she would do. Regardless, Subaru still hasn't moved on.

Kamui engages in yet another battle with Fuuma, which actually goes worse than the last one. Sorata and Arashi aren't as timely as Subaru had been (Dragons of Heaven must simply be able to sense when Kamui is in trouble because they also were no where nearby. Alternatively, Hinoto is just telling them stuff). Fuuma is saying something about eating Kamui's heart. We could put this down as him being a general creep, but there's usually a double meaning with him. Perhaps one of Kamui's wishes is that he just didn't feel anything at all...?

All of this eventually brings us to our next Kamui and Subaru scene. This one has a very quiet, intimate vibe to it, probably on account of it not taking place in a hospital but what I think is Kamui's room?

Kamui has some pretty serious injuries this time around, and we learn that Subaru stayed with him the entire time, just as Kamui did for him at the hospital.

Actually, these two seem a lot closer than they did previously. Is it simply because of Subaru losing his eye? Did that open up a new level of compassion between one another? Was there more off-screen development? My guess is it’s mostly the former, but the latter is a distinct possibility with the way things have been going.

What is plain is that these two are always supporting each other in times of crisis. Not always physically, but emotionally. Subaru in particular is always there to counsel Kamui on whatever issue he wants to discuss while Kamui reminds Subaru that people actually do care about him and Kamui is one of those people.

“And yet, despite all that, I still can’t abandon Fuuma.”

Honestly, I think even Kamui is beginning to wonder if his wish is really worth it. He’s losing all the people he cares about in this pursuit. I genuinely think if Subaru had told him to rethink things here, he might have, because he trusts him and his wish has gotten him absolutely nothing so far.

Unfortunately, Subaru isn’t exactly in a great place to be telling people they need to rethink their life choices, so he doesn’t. Instead, he tries to be encouraging, which is both kind and misguided.

This is a level of emotional and physical intimacy that we just don’t see between any of the nonromantic relationships in this series. It’s actually more touch focused than a great deal of Arashi and Sorata’s interactions and those two actually have a very close emotional connection that develops into a sexual relationship later on in the series, so I have a hard time believing I’m supposed to read this scene as entirely platonic.

But what Subaru is saying is important, even if I think it’s a philosophy that manages to get both him and Kamui into trouble. “Happiness” is basically satisfaction or completion in this context. It’s not necessarily joy. Subaru is essentially telling Kamui that, yes, his wish may be selfish but it’s his. If it is the only thing that can satisfy him, he must pursue it.

Kamui makes no further comment on his own wish; he’s latched onto Subaru’s once more and is bringing Seishirou up yet again. Subaru appears surprised, perhaps because Kamui saw right through him or perhaps because Kamui’s interest in the subject has been so pointed, but he says “yes.”

I really do think Kamui was looking for something from Subaru here that he didn’t quite get. I genuinely believe he’s trying to get confirmation on whether his path is correct or not, but Subaru doesn’t really give him an answer. When that doesn't work, he tries to figure out if Seishirou is really the only thing that can bring Subaru satisfaction, which reveals this is yet another thing that's been on his mind.

That is not acceptance or understanding on Kamui’s face. That is something a little closer to sadness, disappointment, or possibly even anger. He is not pleased with this answer.

There are a lot of layers happening with this conversation and a lot of insinuations, but none of it is ever just laid out for us to see. What seems relatively straightforward to me is that Kamui wishes Subaru would let Seishirou go. He isn’t content with Seishirou being the answer to Subaru’s wish, but he also can’t bring himself to criticize it either. After all, that would be pretty hypocritical; Kamui can’t selfishly pursue his own wish while simultaneously asking Subaru to give up his own for Kamui, but I think there’s a part of Kamui that genuinely wants that to happen.

It also reveals that Kamui does have doubts about the path he's chosen. He never says it outright--he's always vocally determined to save Fuuma--but he's looking to Subaru for guidance on this issue. Not anyone else. Subaru.

So no, Kamui can't reveal that he's unsure about his wish; it's what bonded him and Subaru in the first place. Likewise, he can't ask Subaru to rethink his own wish. What really needs to happen for these two is for them both to give up their current wish to pursue … whatever this is. I’ve talked a lot about Kamui’s feelings for Subaru, but Subaru definitely holds affection for Kamui as well. There would be no reason to hold his hand that way otherwise. And there’s no way Subaru isn’t aware of the parallels; he is definitely occupying a similar role to Seishirou in Tokyo Babylon, that odd mix of mentor and potential love interest. The obvious difference being that Subaru isn’t a psychopathic killer.

Anyway, Sorata and Arashi once again interrupt their odd bonding moment and it’s incredible how swiftly the mood in the room changes. Subaru physically moves away from Kamui, stands at a more respectable distance, and Kamui turns his attention to everyone else. It definitely feels like they aren’t trying to advertise their emotional connection or their problems. Kamui becomes the leader and Subaru becomes another Dragon of Heaven.

Subaru eventually returns to his side when Kamui enters a dream state with Hinoto while the others are there, but he doesn’t say anything further. It’s interesting that Sorata has no issue with hugging Kamui or putting an arm around him when others are around, but Subaru does. Of course, Sorata is simply more demonstrative than Subaru on any given day, but it does feel like quite a stark contrast.

It looks like several days go by between that visit and their next one. Kamui is mostly recovered and heading back to school.

This is so subtle it’s very easy to miss–I did the first couple of times–but Kamui just finished buttoning up his shirt here. He is not inspecting his scars like I initially thought.

How long has Subaru been there? They’re pretty obviously in the middle of a conversation; he didn’t just arrive. It kind of suggests Kamui just… got dressed in front of him, which is definitely a shift. Their general attitudes towards each other are quite different from before as well. The opening panel above shows both of them as seeming more confident than before.

I’m not sure I believe anything untoward happened between them because that would be a pretty drastic shift in dynamics, but if there ever was a point in this series where something more physically intimate occurred (not necessarily anything sexual mind you), it's probably the unseen precursor to this scene. It's CLAMP, so... I guess what I'm saying is that I sometimes just don't know with them. XD

Regardless, all of this reveals, however subtly, a side to their relationship that doesn’t get a whole lot of focus. Namely, all that off-screen bonding I was talking about earlier.

Some of their comfort level is no doubt from the situation being less bleak in general of course. That usually helps.

And then there’s all of this:

Kamui's left arm is giving him a lot more trouble than his right. That explains why he was buttoning up his shirt with just the one previously. But he appears thoughtful, maybe a bit sad, as Subaru helps him with his tie. A lot of that has to do with him not knowing where Yuzuriha is–she could be in grave danger–but I also think some of it has to do with Subaru and Kamui’s feelings toward him. I think it’s safe to say things have entered “complicated” territory. They have a relationship that's incredibly close, but no matter how close Kamui gets to him, there's always a barrier there.

There's also the fact that Kamui always feels guilty when he's incapable of something, so even something as simple as needing help with his tie could be causing him some distress.

So much of what goes on between these two is unspoken. Subaru helping him with his tie is something that doesn’t have to be romantic, but it is a frequently used trope used to demonstrate trust and care, usually between two people who are already together.

If Seishirou and Subaru’s relationship reached it’s culmination after Seishirou lost an eye, I think it’s safe to say that Subaru and Kamui’s is following a similar trajectory, only Subaru didn’t immediately turn on Kamui. Instead, they have time to explore things in a way Subaru never did with Seishirou, whatever that may mean.

Subaru moves things into safer waters from Yuzuriha’s disappearance to Keiichi. He says he will be glad to see Kamui back in school and that he asked Subaru every day if he was all right.

Now, I mentioned earlier that Keiichi definitely thought Subaru and Kamui had something going on and felt he might be stealing Kamui away, but what does Subaru think of Keiichi?

I'd say "curious" but supportive and completely unconcerned about any competition. Honestly, Subaru doesn't strike me as the jealous type, so even if there is something between him and Kamui, I don't think he'd stop Kamui from pursuing something with anyone else. Subaru wouldn't consider himself a great choice; he thinks he's selfish after all.

This is the last normal moment Kamui and Subaru have before Subaru's final confrontation with Seishirou.

I feel relatively safe in the assumption that Subaru was going to say "like you." This is before he even becomes the Sakurazukamori, but he now considers himself selfish and he can't move on from his past whatsoever. He's also lost some of the empathy he had when he was younger; he's definitely kind, but he isn't willing to give everything up for others. He's arguably taken on Seishirou's role with Kamui as well, which I'm sure he has mixed feelings about. And ultimately, he and Seishirou share the same wish: to be killed by the person they love. So, yes, Subaru is definitely different from how he used to be.

It's after Seishirou dies that Subaru really snaps in the series. He was struggling to get by for the majority of it, but this really does it. It’s notable that even now, Kamui restrains himself.

Kamui always holds himself back when it comes to matters involving both Subaru and Seishirou. He never tells Subaru what he thinks of his wish and he doesn’t know how to help him. I think a lot of his resistance to actively reaching out to Subaru on this matter, both physically and emotionally, is out of a misguided sense of respect for him. Subaru knows what he wants and did a great deal for Kamui; Kamui tries to return the favor by giving him distance, but I think distance was the wrong thing to give Subaru. He needs to be dragged into the now and he needs to be reminded that people care. That's a lot to take on though, so I can't blame Kamui for not knowing what to do, especially when he's looking to Subaru for guidance. He doesn't feel like he can take on that role.

Their final parting is tough to watch.

I think this time, Kamui actually is worried Subaru might hate him, because for the first time he’s actually “disrespected” Subaru’s wish. He didn’t let him die with Seishirou when the bridge collapsed. He saved him and that goes against everything Subaru has wanted for the last nine years.

But once again, Subaru misunderstands and I think there’s a part of Subaru that simply can’t accept that Kamui cares for him as a person. He’s stopped caring about himself, so he doesn’t connect the very obvious dots in front of him.

Subaru: You don’t need to worry about me. I’m not going to fall apart.

It could be this is just how Subaru deflects. Rather than discuss what’s really bothering him, he tries to treat Kamui like a leader who is talking to his subject, but that simply isn’t the relationship they ever had, least of all now.

Once again, Kamui gets to the heart of the matter; Subaru is thinking of Seishirou. Everything he's done is for Seishirou, and it's now very apparent Kamui simply can't accept that. He's sorry for it, he knows that if he really wanted to "respect" Subaru he would have let him die, but he couldn't do it.

Even now, Subaru is still trying to explain things to Kamui and still trying to comfort him to a limited degree; Subaru’s not exactly at his best right now, though and it's all pretty dejected. Despite having his wish denied, he doesn't blame Kamui. As he points out a little bit later, some wishes collide. He doesn't hold it against Kamui, though.

Kamui brings up the cigarettes again and this implies the whole thing is still bugging him and that he simply doesn’t understand Subaru’s motivations.

It’s interesting that our only previous glimpse into how Kamui feels about Subaru showed Subaru as being above him, yet reaching out to bring him closer. Here, Kamui literally sits on his knees before him so that Subaru is hovering over him, almost like a king with his subject, and Subaru is metaphorically reaching out to Kamui in an effort to explain himself so that Kamui might understand him.

Subaru explains everything, and essentially tells him he will never understand Seishirou now, never know what he really thought.

I think it’s safe to say that Kamui is feeling similarly about Subaru at the moment--he doesn't feel like he understands him nor does he understand what he's thinking--and once again Subaru is taking Seishirou’s role in a very roundabout way, albeit in a kinder fashion. But there's no doubt that Kamui is giving Subaru power here. Everything about their posture and conversation indicates that. While Subaru sometimes tries to treat Kamui like a leader either as a way of deflecting or because he actually believes that's the right way to handle things, we see here that Kamui absolutely views Subaru as the person with the wisdom and authority to determine things. Maybe not about the fate of the world, that's Kamui's duty, but as far as giving directions? As far as getting a say in what happens next? Absolutely.

And once again, Kamui is looking for something from Subaru he can’t give: he’s asking if what he’s pursuing is “right” and if he should change. Subaru is being given the power to change Kamui’s course and I don’t think he even realizes it.

While looking at their progression, I really think some of Kamui’s steadfast determination to save Fuuma is partially because of how Subaru keeps affirming this belief for him. There were at least two big moments where Subaru could have nudged him in a different direction, but he didn’t take it. Instead, he tries to be encouraging, although this time it’s definitely more fatalistic. Subaru doesn't understand the influence he has over Kamui and that is one of their biggest miscommunications in the series.

Even as lost as Subaru is currently, he still cares about Kamui. He wants him to focus on his own desires, not on him, and he wants him to take care of himself. The problem is that he’s completely missing the fact that Kamui relies on him, cares about him, and would do a lot better if Subaru stayed in some capacity. Instead, he disappears for a month.

Needless to say, Subaru is very much on his mind throughout his absence and Kamui still can't make a kekkai. He thinks about how everyone has something they want to protect, and that's why they can make one. His thoughts lead him right back to Subaru.

This is the person he's thinking about the most while he's visiting Kotori. This is the person he wants to return. And we actually get to see what it is Kamui actually wants for a change:

I don't know if this is the wish Kamui hasn't realized but it's definitely a wish: he wants Subaru to come back. He wants to go out and look for him. He wants Subaru to be capable of caring for someone other than the Sakurazukamori. The implication is that he wants to be important enough to Subaru for him to come back.

Just as Subaru wanted to be important enough to Seishirou for him to acknowledge him, so too does Kamui wish he were important enough for Subaru to do the same.

Kamui continues with "The people I most wanted to protect were Kotori and Fuuma. But Kotori is gone. And now all I want is to get Fuuma back. But... I still can't create a kekkai."

Fuuma is watching this moment through the dreamscape and has this input:

So, protecting Fuuma isn’t his real wish. What is? The only other thing he was thinking about was Subaru, but even I hesitate to say that’s the ultimate wish. I definitely think it's an important, unrealized wish all the same, however. As for Kamui's real wish, I’ve been assuming it was he'd chosen a different side so Fuuma could be spared or possibly that he had died instead of Kotori. CLAMP makes it hard to say for sure.

Anyhow, we finally see where Subaru’s been hiding out for a month plus: the Sakurazukamori’s house. I’m not entirely sure how he found it, but there it is.

Also, Seishirou’s final wish is about as messed up as you’d expect.

Wow, we get weird eye stuff and a dose of stalker possessiveness. 8D CLAMP outdid themselves. I can't even...

And as if that wasn't enough, we get this:

D-do I even want to know what that means? The context of this is incredibly bizarre. He’s talking about how Seishirou was upset another man hurt Subaru. The only person that’s been hurting Kamui is him.

Am I supposed to assume Fuuma wants to prevent anyone else from leaving any kind of mark on Kamui? Is that supposed to be a reference to an actual person? The only person I could think of is Subaru as far as who's been interacting with him, and I’m not actually sure that makes sense. 8D Is he talking about the original Fuuma? He’s jealous of himself? Or possibly even Kotori? Or am I supposed to assume Fuuma just wants to mark Kamui as his with another freaky eye exchange? CLAMP… Why…

Anyway, Subaru takes the eye because he’s been making a series of bad decisions and he isn’t about to let up now.

The next time we see Subaru, he has decided to do nothing, which is basically what he’d decided to do beforehand, only now he has Seishirou’s eye and is willing to watch events unfold. We see that there’s a little tension between him and Fuuma, which is… hardly surprising all things considered.

It’s interesting that Fuuma says Seishirou has been very selfish when it comes to Subaru. That would be pretty obvious to the audience, but Subaru is surprised by this assessment. Seishirou is preventing Subaru from achieving his “wish,” i.e. death and he’s also preventing him from connecting with other people. That’s the height of selfishness.

It is strange hearing this from Fuuma when he is being equally awful, however, which is probably why Subaru points out that wishes are something only Fuuma knows to begin with in what can only be described as an annoyed fashion.

We know Subaru has been on Kamui’s mind (a lot) and it looks like Kamui has been on Subaru’s as well.

Subaru does care about Kamui is the thing, which is why it's doubly strange seeing him as a Dragon of Earth. He doesn't want Kamui hurt, but he claims he's not going to be involved. Can that really be the case if he genuinely cares about someone on the opposite side?

Interestingly, he avoids the subject. He's always been private when it comes to Kamui and it looks like that isn't about to change here, especially when he's talking to the man who has tormented him so much.

The next time Kamui sees Subaru is in the midst of battle with Fuuma and Kamui definitely feels betrayed.

Subaru's presence here is a little strange and I think the only reason he's shown up at all is because he cares about Kamui, just like Fuuma said. He's not showing it in the best way, but...

At long last, Subaru tells Kamui what he needed to hear ages ago and using the opportunity he's been given many times, but never used. Kamui needs to rethink some things and saving Fuuma isn’t what he really wants.

And the thing is, Kamui listens. The final chapter ends with Kamui remembering Karen’s words and finally trying to piece together what might actually be going on and it’s all because Subaru finally stepped in and offered an actual opinion. That's the level of influence Subaru has over Kamui and I'm still not sure Subaru has figured that out.

So, how would things have progressed with Subaru and Kamui after all this? Obviously, there’s no way to say for sure. If CLAMP wanted to draw the final parallel between the Subaru/Seishirou relationship and the Subaru/Kamui relationship, then it’s quite possible Subaru will die at Kamui’s hands. Another possible parallel is that one of them realizes they love the other, but only when it's too late. But the thing is, while there are parallels between these relationships, their differences are far more profound and these two never had the kind of relationship where one would ever want to kill the other.

Even with Subaru’s betrayal, I doubt Kamui wants to see harm come to him; he’s still looking to him for guidance and support. He no doubt wants Subaru to come back. It's what he's been wanting ever since he left.

Rather than Kamui killing Subaru, it’s much more likely Subaru would sacrifice himself for Kamui, possibly as his final wish. It’s also possible Subaru decides to rejoin the Dragons of Heaven because there really isn’t any reason he has to be with the Dragons of Earth? He’s not a fan of Fuuma, he has no attachment to the people there. He’s just there for the sake of Seishirou’s memory. Undoubtedly there would be some conversation(s) between Subaru and Kamui even with them being on opposite sides. This wasn't supposed to be the final battle; Kamui doesn't die here. For all we know, that sword Fuuma's been holding up for years never strikes Kamui; it could hit someone that flings themselves in front of Kamui or it could be blocked or any number of things. But it isn't the end.

Furthermore, there's still the matter of Kamui learning to make a kekkai. It would be very strange if CLAMP never gave him a reason to create one. The issue Kamui is having is that the people he wanted to protect in the world are already gone. He needs some other reason or person to create a kekkai. This means he needs to realize an attachment to a person he didn't realize he had. I'm just saying, Subaru is a good choice for that.

And like Kamui, I have to wonder if there’s anything out there Subaru would be willing to protect. The likeliest candidate is Kamui himself.

Now, I would personally like a much happier ending to this manga than I think we were likely to get, but whatever the ending, I don’t think CLAMP was going to drop the exploration they had going of Kamui and Subaru’s relationship. It didn’t dominate the series, but it also got a lot more focus than they needed to give it. It was important and it was unique and I think their bond could have continued to grow if the world had been a little kinder to them and if they’d both been willing to move on a little sooner.

And that’s all for now. This turned out to be very long. I will now proceed to content myself with writing more fanfic. 8D

#long post #x1999 #x #subkam #ship manifesto #subkam ship manifesto #sumeragi subaru #shirou kamui #Bemused's post #This took so much time...#I really hope the pictures loaded in correctly 8D

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greenbergsays · 5 years

Note

I think Crowley fell in love with Az on the wall of Eden and knew it from the beginning bc of all his acts of service. Az fell in love slowly and was first aware of his own feelings in 1601, but didn't realize C. felt the same way until the bombed church scene. When you have eternity, what are a few centuries? Then Az didn't want Crowley to get hurt with holy water, and he had to realize his own feelings in the Bentley. Armageddon was nigh, Az had to decide whether to act on it or not. 😇🖤😈

See, my favorite thing about these nerds is I don’t think they realized the moment they fell for the other one. I don’t think they realized it for ages.

Their moment of falling in love and their moment of realizing they’re in love are two different things and both of those things are completely separate from knowing that the other one feels the same. (To me!)

So, I agree with you that Crowley probably fell in love with Aziraphale standing on the wall of Eden.

I mean look at that face.

That is the face of a demon whose heart, upon hearing the words “I gave it away,” is now like, “oh no, I stan (1) angel.”

However, I think he realized that he had feelings for Aziraphale somewhere between 33 A.D. and 41 A.D.

I’ve talked about this before, but I shall talk about it again, BECAUSE WHY NOT

My point is:

That? That is his moment of acceptance in my mind. That is the moment he’s like, “fuck it, he’s too adorable, I guess we’re doing this now.”

The thing that absolutely fucking hurts me, right, is that Crowley is by far the more open of the two. He’s closed off in many, many ways, but he’s ultimately a tenderhearted nerd in love with a single being for thousands of years, accepts that, and spends those years indulging his love at every possible turn.

He is the softest demon and I love him.

Aziraphale is the one that is more buttoned-up emotionally. He’s the one that’s more reluctant to admit his feelings, the one that’s less likely to put himself out there emotionally, etc.

I think that’s due, in large part, to his severe anxiety, but it’s possible I’m just Projecting. It could also be due to the fact that Heaven doesn’t make him a priority at all and is very dismissive of his thoughts and feelings, so he tries not to pay attention to them too much. It’s the only way he can cope, really.

So for me, it’s harder to pin down exactly when Aziraphale actually started to have feelings for Crowley.

Hell, man, they’ve had those same bodies for 6,000 years and have also been on earth for 6,000 years, so the implication there is that they somehow got aboard Noah’s ark and were cooped up together for 40 days and 40 nights, plus the time it took for the water to recede, so maybe that’s what did it.

I mean, Aziraphale clearly likes Crowley well enough that he inquires about his new name in 33 A.D. when Crowley doesn’t readily offer it. And he also clearly likes him well enough to approach Crowley on his own in 41 A.D.

So far, we’ve seen Crowley spotting him first and approaching to strike up a conversation, but 41 A.D. is the first time we see Aziraphale spot Crowley first. And he doesn’t hesitate to approach and strike up a conversation, like Crowley does to him. In fact, he immediately leaves his seat and his game to do so.

So, that’s an important moment. That means that Aziraphale is feeling something for him.

That being said, I personally disagree about when Aziraphale knew he was in love. I definitely think it was the bombed church scene.

I mean, look at that face???? That is the expression of an angel so overwhelmed by such a swell of emotion that it’s impossible to ignore anymore.

He is in love.

As for when they realize that their feelings are returned? I have no idea. Not a clue. My answer literally changes depending on the day.

Crowley is fairly easy to pin down again. I feel like he knows either before or when Aziraphale gives him the holy water. That’s such a big thing–it was significant enough to be a huge fight between them–and for Aziraphale to cave and provide it, explicitly saying it’s because he needs Crowley to be safe, that’s—that’s significant.

So if Crowley doesn’t know before, he definitely knows then.

Aziraphale, again, is harder for me to pin down. I’d like to think that he knows by that same conversation, because, “You go too fast for me, Crowley,” is such a gorgeous line and it’s even more gorgeous if you think about it from the terms of the two of them absolutely being on the same page and just not saying it.

That being said, Aziraphale’s reaction in the bandstand scene is too significant to ignore.

I mean look at that.

I can’t see that face and think that he knew before.

Because you know what the alternative is, right?

The alternative is that he knows that Crowley thinks he has feelings, but Aziraphale just knows that they aren’t real.

He could think that Crowley isn’t capable of real love, which a lot of people seem to like, or he could think that Crowley’s feelings are superficial at best–a surface-level affection that would never be anything more–and Crowley, unused to such emotions, is mistaking affection for real, true love.

Aziraphale has spent 6,000 years watching Crowley not really be serious about anything. Crowley lives his life in the fast lane, he does stuff without thinking about the consequences, he’s impulsive, he’s seemingly care-free.

Whatever Crowley may think he feels, Aziraphale thinks, it’s certainly nothing genuine or real. He’s mistaking a general affection for romantic love.

And he might not even think that because Crowley is a demon. It could just be because Aziraphale never thought he was good enough to be loved like that.

But then the bandstand happens. Then Crowley suggests that they abandon their respective sides, abandon Earth and the impending apocalypse, and just. Run away together.

And that moment of shock is Aziraphale fully understanding for the first time how wrong he’d been. That’s the face of an angel who’s realizing that everything he’s craved is standing right there in front of him, arms wide open, just waiting for him to accept it.

But this is Aziraphale and Aziraphale instinctively rejects the things that he wants because he thinks he doesn’t deserve them. So he tells Crowley “no,” and “it’s over,” even though it’s the opposite of what he wants.

#memprime #greenberg replies #long post #the nice and accurate ramblings of desdemona greenberg #kedreeva wants me to piggyback off of this #and writing some devastating aziraphale feels #so be on the look out for THAT post of utter heartbreak

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sepublic · 4 years

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If the characters of The Owl House had JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Stands, who would have which Stand? (Note: It can be from any part in the series, not just Part 3)

First off, I just want to say- THANK YOU, because The Owl House and Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure, two of my favorite things ever, in one ask? And I get to ANALYZE the two? This is a dream come true…!

I love Stands, not only for their unique designs and crazy abilities that can get weirdly specific, but also because they’re essentially a reflection of one’s soul, so they’re a great glimpse into a character’s personality! As someone who loves the characters from The Owl House, this is naturally a fun way to explore their psyche by assigning a Stand most compatible with them, White Snake-style!

I should preface that for this ask, I’m going to be using Stands from Parts 1-6. Unfortunately, I haven’t yet read Steel Ball Run, nor Jojolion; I plan to, and maybe on another day I’ll revisit this ask with updated information- Assuming that any of the new Stands I encounter and know about fit the characters more than the ones already assigned to them.

But with that out of the way… Here’s a list of characters and the Stands I’ve assigned to them- For fun, I’ve even gone over some minor named characters (although Bellows and Kikimora were left out due to there being too little to work with)! Some characters will have multiple Stands, if only because I couldn’t decide between some, or I felt like there were others worth considering. Lengthy explanations for my reasoning will be underneath the cut, as well as alternate Stand possibilities, even for those who I’ve already made a decision on!

(I’m going for best fits, not perfect ones)

Luz- The Cure

Eda- Sticky Fingers

King- Wheel of Fortune/Bad Company/Harvest/Little Feet/Weather Report

Hooty- Horus

Owlbert- Anubis/Stray Cat/Sex Pistols/Aerosmith

Willow- Strength

Gus- Hierophant Green/Emperor

Amity- Spice Girl

Lilith- Magician’s Red

Emira- Joy Division

Edric- Khnum

Boscha- Goo Goo Dolls

Mattholomule- The Lock

Bump- The Grateful Dead

Wrath- Bastet

Adegast- Judgement

Tibbles- Marilyn Manson

Bat Queen- Atom Heart Father

Starting off is Luz, the main character and personal favorite of mine! She was REALLY difficult to figure out… I considered multiple options for her, such as Crazy Diamond, Gold Experience, Heaven’s Door, Bohemian Rhapsody, etc. Ultimately however, I decided to go for a rather obscure Stand, one from the light novel Golden Heart, Golden Ring- The Cure. To put it simply, The Cure, well… Cures people by absorbing wounds and injuries, becoming bigger before eventually dissipating the accumulated hurt. I feel like this reflects greatly Luz’s very kind, almost healing nature- She helps provide Eda with a greater sense of found family, she helps ‘fix’ Willow’s situation and self-esteem, as well as Amity’s own insecurity and loneliness, etc. Not only that, but Luz also has a lot of thematic similarities with The Cure’s user, Coniglio- Coniglio is heavily associated with Alice from Alice in Wonderland.

The character of Alice is led into a new, magical world by a small creature she later befriends, and gets into trouble with the local law- Just like Luz. Coniglio herself was ostracized when she was younger, being called a Witch, which fits Luz’s initial loneliness, and of course her eventual aspirations. Coniglio is an inexperienced Stand User when we meet her, just as Luz is still learning magic. Finally, Coniglio learns to control and tame her stand, which takes the form of a rabbit- Luz is associated with small animal sidekicks, such as King or Owlbert. However, The Cure can also turn into a more monstrous form and become berserk, which in its own way mirrors Luz’s relationship with Eda, and how she has to calm her mentor and revert her back the way Coniglio did.

For a more canon option, there’s also The Sun. We don’t really know anything about is user, Arabia Fats- The most we can glean is that he’s clever, but he can also rely on dumb ideas. Likewise, his Stand is incredibly powerful, but provides almost nothing to defend him. If one goes by the Tarot meaning, however, The Sun is associated with good times, with fun and optimism, all that stuff! It’s about someone who still maintains childlike wonder… and that sounds like Luz! She’s kind, bright, and in a lot of ways a ‘light’ to others’ lives, which is also supported by her name’s literal translation!

Continuing on Tarot meanings, we can also go for The Fool- It’s about being adventurous, of starting a new journey. There’s some freedom, but also a bit of carelessness, which reflects how Luz didn’t quite fully think through her actions in the beginning of Episode 1, or her plan in Episode 3. The Fool is a bit of an outsider compared to the rest of the Arcana, which fits Luz’s outsider status as a human who somehow goes Magic anyway. And like The Fool, Luz can be somewhat unpredictable and unusual, at least to those who know her- She’s kind of a cryptid to them, what with having confetti in her pockets at all times(?) and casually revealing that she knows the infamous Bat Queen.

For Eda, I chose Sticky Fingers- Someone else on Twitter mentioned it, I don’t remember who… But they analyzed a few of the Stands of Part 5, and during their analysis they discussed how Sticky Fingers is symbolic of Bruno’s ability to connect with others, making his own path to them, zipping them together, etc. Bruno Bucciarati is a mom with a found family, which I feel suits Eda’s personality. Likewise, they’re both criminals, who willingly left a prestigious organization despite their talent and the powerful role they could’ve had in the group, as a result of moral disagreements with its ideals and leader. Plus, Sticky Fingers is a term that refers to people who like to steal, and we know from Covention that Eda is a notorious pickpocket!

On the other hand, Weather Report is also neat. It’s associated with a character dealing with memory loss, which fits Eda’s schtick and character a whole lot, what with not remembering who cursed her. Likewise, Weather Report (the user) has a brother, Enrico Pucci; The two used to have a more complex antagonism, although by Stone Ocean it’s a lot more straightforward. Still, this kind of complex sibling relationship also works with Eda and Lilith, and with Weather Report being a ridiculously powerful Stand (just as Eda is the strongest Witch), I feel it also works for her character, personality, and motifs.

King is the most interesting and diverse scenario for me. I’ve considered Wheel of Fortune for him; Both rely on an outside force, a pre-existing thing, in order to function. Likewise, Wheel of Fortune’s power is proportional to the user’s confidence, which fits with how King talks big about himself. Its user, ZZ, also made a big deal of talking himself up, being a lot of bark in order to build up his confidence… However, the moment things begin to fall apart, his confidence wanes and he basically runs away. His powers diminish, and he becomes all bark and no bite. This kind of sounds like King- Obviously there’s more courage to him than with ZZ, but generally speaking, the concept of a character who’s in over their head and operates a lot on building up their self-confidence, only for it to collapse as soon as things go wrong, fits with King.

On another hand, Harvest and Bad Company fit King’s whole desire to lead massive armies, and his claims of having been a King of Demons. Having a Colony Stand that acts as his personal army of loyal followers and soldiers fits almost perfectly; Bad Company is more militarized, representing King’s grandiose aspirations for power, and him becoming a Drill Sergeant in Episode 11 definitely helps this. It’s also associated with a lost childhood, which… King is kid-coded and he doesn’t seem to be necessarily missing out on anything, but the idea is still there. However, Harvest is less deadly, having a more animalistic appearance, being cuter, and having an inclination towards theft that King himself also does. Plus, King seems like the kind of person who’d use Harvest to carry himself across the sidewalk, let’s be real here!

Finally, I’m considering Weather Report as an option, if only because of the fan theory going around (which I’ve dabbled in) about King having once been the Boiling Isles Titan, or at least an ACTUAL King of Demons… Part of the theory speculates that he lost his memories, which fits into Weather Report’s arc. It’s about a hidden potential, that when rediscovered, can be outright terrifying. Little Feet also works with King’s Napoleon Complex.

King is an interesting character to assign a Stand to, in part because there’s a lot we actually don’t know about him, and the mystery surrounding him as a result. I feel like we once we learn more about King’s backstory and who he is, we may get a better idea of what Stand most fits him.

Horus was assigned to Hooty, not only because of his bird motif, but also because the Egyptian God Horus is seen as a protector, just like the Stand’s user Pet Shop, who acts as Dio’s main guard for his mansion; Likewise, Hooty is the Owl House’s primary security system, and ‘state-of-the-art’ no less. Not only that, but… To get into some heavy theorizing here, @fermented-writers-block has speculated that Hooty may or may not have connections to a hypothetical ‘Owl Deity’, of which we see a mural of in Episode 1. To put it as simply as possible, Hooty is either a manifestation of this Owl Deity’s power, OR the Owl Deity itself; And if so, then assigning Hooty a stand named after a major Egyptian God seems all the more appropriate. Additionally, Pet Shop himself has a helmet typically used to restrain birds of prey, and Hooty himself usually needs to be ‘restrained’; Either told to stop his cryptic riddles and just give straight-forward answers, or kept from tearing apart a canvas.

Also, if that one MSN article mentioning a labyrinth below the Owl House is true, then Hooty could also have Tenore Sax; It’s a Stand that manipulates the environment, and was used to make Dio’s Mansion look like a maze. It’s about control of one’s environment, which makes sense given how Hooty controls the Owl House itself. Hooty could also have Mr. President, as it’s a Stand wielded by an animal that provides a safe environment for others to live in- Befitting of Hooty’s role as the Owl House.

Owlbert is a bit weird, in that he’s already wielded by others; Still, he’s a part of the family, so I feel obligated to include him. Off the top of my head are a couple of considerations- There’s Anubis, which exists as a sword that can be wielded physically by the user and even others, outliving its user- That fits Owlbert’s capabilities and role as a Palisman to a staff! Stray Cat is also an option, because like Owlbert it’s an animal that’s born of plant-matter and associated with the air, albeit through air bubbles.

Sex Pistols is a Stand that needs care and attention, just like Owlbert, and also has its own personality. Likewise, the Sex Pistols support and enhance the ability of another, pre-existing tool, just as Owlbert enhances Eda’s magic and helps her focus it through her staff. Finally, we have Aerosmith- They’re both free-flying, but also very powerful and capable, and not to be underestimated. Like King, there are plenty of options for him that all fit in their own ways.

Willow was a fun topic, and ultimately for her, I’m gonna go with Strength. Ignoring its user, Strength is a stand that recognizes and unlocks the hidden potential of just about anything it finds, no matter how innocuous; Willow is a character who is meek and shy, but contains a hidden power and talent that is legitimately powerful. Strength is an incredibly powerful stand, upgrading a regular boat into an entire shipping freighter; Willow is able to turn a seed into an entire garden of powerful, thorny vines. They involve nurturing power and helping it grow. Plus, most depictions of the Strength Tarot Card involve a woman taming a lion- And I think that kind of works with how Willow may seem all gentle, but she controls and tames powerful plant-monsters. Also, a recent drawing by Dana seems to confirm that Willow is canonically buff, so that works too, alongside the Tarot’s additional meaning of controlling oneself, as Willow does with her anger!

There is also the minor consideration of Purple Haze, given that Willow has genuine frustration in her that can manifest as real, powerful rage. However, Purple Haze also explicitly hurts and shoves others away, which Willow doesn’t do- She’s kind and open and is already good friends with Gus by the time Luz appears. Gold Experience is also a very viable option, given its power of creating life and facilitating growth- However, I decided to go with Strength, not only because of the additional symbolism of hidden potential (which matches Willow’s initial, unrecognized talent), but also because of the symbolism of the tarot card. And also, Gold Experience is a main character Stand and already a pretty obvious option, so trying something a bit more unique seemed interesting.

Gus is another VERY hard one for me, like with King- It’s not that I don’t get his personality, it’s just that there are plenty of Stands that I feel could match him. For example, we’ve got Hierophant Green- Its user, Kakyoin, was lonely and is also an excellent student. He desired friends, which he got through the Stardust Crusaders- Similarly, Gus himself is talented but also expresses loneliness over being younger than everyone else, with part of his motivation for forming the H.A.S. to make friends and also provide support for others who’ve gone through the same experience. Likewise, Gus may not have the raw power that his other friends have, but he’s still plenty clever himself, like Kakyoin.

There’s also Emperor; The tarot meaning discusses a person who takes a leadership role, and its reverse is losing control of that leadership, as well as poor decision-making. This relates well to Gus’ conflict in Episode 9; Likewise, Emperor’s user is Hol Horse, who prefers to be Number Two and is aware of his own flaws, not desiring the spotlight. Gus himself states in Episode 6 that he knows what he’s about, not at all concerned that Luz doesn’t consider him as strong as Eda or Willow- He doesn’t particularly seek attention or glory. Gus is happy and content with being a ‘Dweebus’ and embraces it alongside his supporting role, like Hol Horse. Also, the kid wears a crown when he’s in charge of the H.A.S., and that’s something I really want to incorporate with his Stand’s symbolism!

On a lesser note, there’s also Kiss- It’s a Stand that makes doubles of things, and Gus has an affinity for Illusion spells that can create copies of him, tangible or otherwise. Dolly Dagger from Purple Haze Feedback is wielded by Vittorio, who is the child of his group, and represents him not being ready to handle a lot of the responsibility placed upon him; Just as Gus struggles with control over the H.A.S., as well as the isolation that comes from being a talented student who’s younger than the rest and not taken seriously.

King, Owlbert, and Gus are definitely a dilemma to me… There’s plenty you could assign to either of them, and I feel I’ve only scratched the surface of Gus’ potential Stands. The dude has range and potential, so it’s hard for me to decide given how my options are ultimately limited and usually specific.

For Amity, I went with Spice Girl. Spice Girl is a manifestation of Trish’s psyche, and her whole character involves putting up a hardened, mean, stoic façade in order to hide how scared and vulnerable she feels; A lot like Amity, who tends to push people away because of her loneliness- She mentions not wanting to show ‘weakness’. Like Amity, Trish learns to be strong in her own way, in a way that can still be soft, while incredibly strong and resilient; A form of kindness and personal growth that manifests literally through Spice Girl’s ability to make things soft yet virtually indestructible. Amity hasn’t quite completed her character arc, but she’s made major steps towards it by opening up to Luz and learning to be nicer. So, Spice Girl it is!

There’s also Purple Haze- Fugo and Amity are both high-performing students with a lot of pressure on them, who deal with genuine frustration over their situation. Purple Haze’s ability forces others away lest they get hurt, representing Fugo’s paranoia over his childhood trauma, and how he ends up ‘pushing’ the others away when he chooses not to go on the boat. However, Purle Haze doesn’t fit as well the way Spice Girl does, because Purple Haze represents a genuine rage and anger boiling within Fugo… Whereas Amity, while she IS frustrated, doesn’t seem to have particular fury, being more inclined towards insecurity and loneliness.

Lilith was assigned Magician’s Red. I looked into the meaning of the Magician Tarot card, and to sum it up simply, it’s about having talent and seeking out success. Our first appearance of Lilith has her making a demonstration to a bunch of young, impressionable Witches, flaunting her own talent and success, and appealing those traits to her audience, explaining that Witches who join the Emperor’s Coven are the most powerful and highest-ranking of them all. Likewise, she also has an eye for talent, nurturing the skills and abilities of Witches such as Amity. Plus, there’s also the symbolic relevance of her having a Stand with magic in its name, as well as one with a bird-like appearance; Fitting given her White Raven symbolism, and association with the Emperor’s Coven and its bird motifs. And like the user Avdol, Lilith also has a bit of a flair for flashiness.

Like Luz, Emira was tricky in that I couldn’t quite find a Stand that suited her, so I’ve gone with my next-best option; Joy Division, another very obscure Stand, from the same light novel as Luz’s assigned Stand. Joy Division switches objects around, which mirrors what Emira did to the librarian and Gary in her debut. It’s a Stand that’s perfect and ideal for her kind of mischief and clever tricks. Likewise, its user, Sogliola, has wealth, prestige, and status as a Capo in Passione- Emira herself is a member of the presumably wealthy and high-status Blight family.

As I mentioned earlier, Edric is also tricky in that I didn’t find a Stand that quite suited what personality we’ve seen from him. Ultimately, I settled on one good for mischief, Khnum- It’s a Stand that allows one to change their appearance, which fits Edric’s Illusion spells and that one spell he used to make himself look a lot more extravagant. Khnum’s user, Oingo, is also not exactly the brightest, and he’s associated with a close sibling that he’s always beside, who also has a Stand- Which can match Edric’s relationship with Emira.

I’m also considering Jail House Lock; It’s great for tricking and mentally messing with people by making them forget things and become confused, befitting Edric’s mischievous nature. Also, it making people forgetful can sort of connect to Edric being dumb in his own way, I guess- I dunno. I feel like Emira and Edric’s Stands don’t have a particularly deep connection to them individually, in part because there’s not much we’ve learned yet to differentiate the two, and the issue of finding Stands that fit, while trying to avoid repeating them for characters unless as a potential possibility. It is worth noting that Jail House Lock’s user, Miu Miu, has power and status- Another thing one can associate with the Blights.

Boscha got Goo Goo Dolls. The Stand is a reflection of the user’s possessive personality over their ‘friends’, treating them more like toys or pets to be bossed around with and told what to do. Boscha has a bossy nature, as seen with how she treats one of her friends in Episode 8, and likewise she is somewhat possessive of them- When King gets their attention, Boscha is clearly focused on getting back her control of the situation. Nothing is saying she can’t get along with King and he didn’t explicitly exclude her from the fun, but Boscha nevertheless chose to heighten the conflict. And of course, she initially meets King and wants to buy him as a pet, befitting Gwess’ desire for ‘pets’.

I’ve also considered Bad Company for her, for a few mostly speculative reasons. To sum it up shortly, I suspect that Boscha may have a bad situation at home, where an incompetent mother is relying on Boscha for emotional support, forcing her to essentially ‘grow up’ and be the responsible one in charge. Bad Company represents a childhood that is missed out on due to an inadequate parent that the user ends up having to look after, and likewise, it involves telling others what to do; Also something Boscha likes. However, because this is mostly speculative, I’m just going to have to go for Goo Goo Dolls for now.

Mattholomule has The Lock. Initially I considered Surface, but ultimately I went with The Lock because unlike Hazamada, Mattholomule doesn’t seem to have any particular envy towards Gus nor does he want to be him, insteading having a general desire for power and drama. The Lock reflects how he tries to garner sympathy from the other members of the HAS when his plan begins to backfire on him; It’s a Stand that’s entirely reliant on others’ perception and pity/guilt for the user.

Similarly, it’s otherwise pretty powerless, which goes along with Mattholomule’s general incompetence and failure in most facets of life. The Lock is either relinquished by the user’s command, if the victim no longer feels guilty, and/or if they’re given ‘reparations’ for the ‘damage’ they received- Mattholomule is all about getting status and whatnot. Also, The Lock functions as a Lie Detector, which can make sense with how Mattholomule lies for his own personal gain.

Principal Bump has The Grateful Dead. The stand’s user, Prosciutto, is someone who takes an older and more experienced mentor role, just like Bump. Likewise, Prosciutto is willing to do harsh things to someone underneath his tutelage, but ultimately he still takes his leadership role very seriously, wants to get the job done, and genuinely has it in his best interest to see the person he apprentices unlock their hidden potential. Bump may have extreme methods such as his Trouble Detectors and even brainwashing kids in detention, but ultimately he’s genuinely invested in the future success of his students, and will even break the law for their sake and that of a human, a total stranger.

It’d seem obvious to give Wrath a stand like Jail House Lock (given its user, Miu Miu, is also a warden), but in terms of personality, I ultimately went with Bastet. Bastet is defined by creating attractions, and is associated with electromagnetism- Which itself doesn’t just pull things together, but repelsthem as well. Bastet’s user, Mariah, is attracted to Dio because of how powerful he is, among other traits. Wrath is attracted to Eda, letting his attraction override his own duties as a Warden because he thinks the two of them will make a Power Couple; Both him and Mariah want to go big, or go home! Bastet lures targets in through their curiosity, Wrath lures in Eda by having King’s Burger Queen crown… Finally, while this is never expressed by Bastet itself, the theme of magnetism also relates to repellingforces. And Wrath is clearly repelled by the abnormal, seeking to contain the deviants of society, and is easily disgusted by something as simple as a raspberry because of the potential germs it could spread.

As an alternative option, there IS Planet Waves- Its user, Viviano Westwood, is a guard at a prison. He’s a cruel, brute-force jerk whose Stand allows him to physically overpower and smash through most obstacles and foes, and he deliberately looks down on prisoners as the ‘scum’ of society, taking delight in abusing his position to torment them. These all sound a lot like Wrath, so if one feels like Bastet doesn’t adequately capture his personality, there’s always Planet Waves as an alternative.

Adegast was given Judgement, for obvious reasons- It’s a Stand that toys with a victim’s heart and plays on their desires. That’s literally what Adegast does- Plays on Luz’s desires to be deemed special, to live out her fantasy, only to cruelly tear it away at the last second and mock her for it. Both his illusions and Judgement’s clay constructs dissolve into dust. And while Judgement is physically powerful, contrasting with Adegast’s incredibly frail body, the cowardice of Cameo pairs well with Adegast’s nature.

For Tibbles, I briefly entertained Osiris and Atum, especially Osiris given its association with card games (and Tibbles is good at Hexes Hold ‘em), and the idea of gambles in general. Ultimately however, I stuck with Marilyn Manson, which operates on a similar basis of the user winning a game and utterly defeating the loser as a result. Marilyn Manson is special in that it prioritizes material wealth, aiming to reap money or anything else of similar value; Which fits into Tibbles being a greedy capitalist who acts like he owns King and takes him without either his nor Eda’s consent, just as Marilyn Manson can be used to steal a Stand Disc that was never disclosed as part of the arrangement.

Finally, the Bat Queen was given Atom Heart Father. She was another difficult person to assign a Stand to, but ultimately I decided on Yoshihiro Kira’s stand. I get that there’s irony of Atom Heart Father having a paternal name, compared to the Bat Queen’s maternal status, but just bear with me for a moment. Like the Bat Queen, Yoshihiro is a parent, but he’s one who has concern for the person he’s looking after, to the point where his attempts to protect that person can be overall detrimental to that actual person’s growth; In this case, his son Yoshikage.

The Bat Queen has taken it upon herself to look after a LOT of discarded, rejected Palismans, among them Owlbert. However, in her concern for their plight and any pain they might go through, the Bat Queen has unfortunately projected some of her views on Witches a bit; When Owlbert wants to reunite with Luz, she interferes on his behalf, believing she knows best. The Bat Queen wants to do what’s best, what’s ‘safest’ for Owlbert, but in reality she’s only hurting him in the long run. Thankfully, Owlbert is able to stand up for himself, and the Bat Queen listens to reason.

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